Strength vs. Hypertrophy (The 65% Threshold for Lifters Chasing PRs vs. Muscle Size) | Ep 297 - Wits & Weights | Fat Loss, Nutrition, & Strength Training for Lifters

Episode Transcript
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Philip Pape (00:01):
Whether you just got into lifting or you've been
training consistently for years,you might be aware of a paradox
that going after maximumnumbers seems to limit the
development of your physique andmuscle, while focusing on just
hypertrophy or muscle sizedevelopment doesn't seem to

(00:21):
deliver the ultimate strengthnumbers that you want.
Well, research shows that,beyond the novice stage,
strength and size gains followfundamentally different pathways
.
Today, we're talking about thescience-backed differences
between training for maximalstrength versus optimal muscle
growth and how to program forboth without compromising either
.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a

(00:58):
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Pape, andtoday I'm going to address one
of the most misunderstoodrelationships in fitness the
connection between strength andhypertrophy, the fancy word for
muscle growth and I want to givea shout out to my lifting buddy
, tony.
You know who you are as well asmy client, len, who have pushed
me recently to cover this topicin depth and it's a good one,

(01:21):
because I see this confusionconstantly with clients in our
online communities, where peopleask should I lift heavy to get
stronger, or should I uselighter weights or more reps to
build muscle?
Or they'll say I'm gettingstronger but I'm not seeing much
size increase or development ofmy physique.
Or, conversely, you know I lookbigger but my lifts aren't

(01:41):
really going up that much.
Look bigger but my lifts aren'treally going up that much.
And the separation betweenthese two training goals you
know it's not as black and whiteas many believe, like the old
school.
Well, strength is one to fivereps and hypertrophy is eight to
12, and so on.
There is significant overlap,but there are also significant
differences in how you shouldapproach each one, and

(02:02):
understanding this relationshipis critical to design an
effective program, or at leastchoose a program so that you
know it gives you the specificresults you want.
Now, if you want to put theseprinciples into action
immediately, I've definitely gotsomething special for you today
, because I'm giving away acomplete set of my physique and
strength-focused workoutprograms from Wits and Weights

(02:26):
Physique University totally free, giving you the whole thing for
the current month for all skilllevels, all types of equipment.
There are swaps, there's videolinks in there, there are
instructions novice,intermediate, glutes and legs.
There are a lot of differentprograms and they're the exact
programs that our WWPU memberscan choose from, including a

(02:46):
built-in log, exercisesubstitutions for home and
travel, you name it.
So just go to witsandweightscom, slash free or click the link
in the show notes.
If you go to our website, justlook for Physique Focus Programs
I think it's called but justclick the link in the show notes
to get a free copy of thattoday.
All right, so let's clear up theconfusion between strength and

(03:07):
hypertrophy training once andfor all, making this the
definitive episode on the topic.
First, let's define what theheck we're talking about.
Strength training primarilyfocuses on increasing your
ability to generate maximalforce.
How much weight you can liftfor low reps, ideally for one

(03:28):
rep, the most you can lift forone rep, but in that range.
So think about powerliftingpowerlifting competitions, where
athletes perform one rep at theheaviest possible weight for
their deadlift, their squat andtheir bench press.
And this is something I didn'tunderstand for many, many years,
and once I did and focused onit when I was a beginner, the
gain started to take off and itopened up a whole world of

(03:50):
learning and understanding aboutthis.
But then at some point youstart to hit a wall and you're
like why am I not gettingstronger, or why am I not
getting the physique I want?
So hypertrophy training, on theother hand, in somewhat
contrast to strength, emphasizesincreasing muscle size using
the ultimate principle, which ismechanical tension, and it's

(04:12):
often by doing it throughmoderate I'll call it moderate
weights.
I don't like to saylightweights, it's just moderate
weights.
It's sub-maximal or far fromyour max for mid to higher tier
rep ranges like 6 to 15, up to20, even up to 30.
That's what I'm saying isthere's quite a wide range where
this can be effective.

(04:32):
Now, the interesting part hereis that if you look at the
science, we see that theseadaptations share a fundamental
driver and that is mechanicaltension, which I just mentioned
in the context of hypertrophy.
But the way your body respondsto this tension is going to
differ, based on load volume andother variables, and here's

(04:53):
where the 65% threshold becomesimportant.
I think this is reallyimportant.
So listen up.
Research consistently showsthat to build maximal strength,
you generally okay, generally,this is a combination of the
research need to train with atleast 65% of your one rep max.
Okay, that is 65% of your max.
This is an intensity thresholdthat ensures that you have

(05:16):
sufficient neural right, yournervous system, neural
recruitment and adaptation.
But if you're just trying tobuild muscle and I say that in
quotes we're going to get to thedifferences and the overlaps.
You can potentially go as lowas 30% of your one rep max.
Provided that you are trainingclose to failure, you're still

(05:38):
leveraging the principle ofmechanical tension either way.
So I want to explain why thishappens through the lens of the
research.
So in the early stages ofstrength gains this is when
you're a complete beginner or anovice or even a late novice
most improvement comes fromneurological adaptations, not
muscle growth.
Your central nervous system,your CNS, becomes more efficient

(06:01):
at recruiting muscle fibers andsynchronizing your motor units,
and studies show that in novicelifters, increases in muscle
size might explain as little as2% of the variance in strength
gains.
That's pretty telling, right?
That tells you that it's not.
It doesn't have much to do withmuscle at all, because nearly
all strength improvement comesfrom better neural efficiency

(06:24):
and technique, and this is whyyou can gain massive strength
very quickly early on, becauseyou don't need to grow new
muscle tissue to get there.
You're simply training yourbody to coordinate better
effectively.
So you guys probably know DrEric Helms, one of the guys I
follow.
He's a natural bodybuilder,he's a researcher, always on the
podcast circuit Stronger byscience, mass, all that good

(07:00):
stuff and he explains thisphenomenon very clearly.
He says when you first starttraining your body and
coordinate the muscles andthat's where beginners again can
double their strength but haveminimal visible muscle gain, and
that can be it can be bothexhilarating because your
numbers are going up, andfrustrating because your
physique isn't quite changingyet.
And then, as you become moreadvanced, the relationship
shifts very dramatically.

(07:22):
For experienced lifters, musclemass then becomes critical for
further strength gains.
You've heard of you know,working on your weak spots, for
example, and it potentiallyexplains 65% or more of the
variability in strengthincreases.
Okay, listen to what I just said.
When you're more advanced,muscle mass becomes more

(07:44):
relevant for strength.
So, in other words, once you'veoptimized your nervous system
and your lifting technique,getting stronger largely means
building bigger muscles.
And so the chicken and egg isalways confusing here, because
it's like which one supports theother.
The answer is yes, and thisexplains why elite power lifters
are also quite jacked.

(08:06):
They're quite muscular, right,they have to be, even if
aesthetics isn't their primarygoal, and you might see the big
guys who carried a lot of extraweight.
They then cut down becausetheir goals change.
Maybe they even go intobodybuilding and I won't say
it's easy for them because it'sgoing to depend on their shape
and their symmetry as well.
But you see that fat fall offand they've got tons of muscle

(08:28):
slabs and slabs of meat on theirframe and so at advanced levels
, more muscle becomes necessaryto continue breaking strength
plateaus Really really important, because I think people get
stuck in the mindset of doingthe same.
You know, three by five programforever, and they are leaving
lots of potential gains on thesame.
You know, three by five programforever, and they are leaving
lots of potential gains on thetable, even for their strength.

(08:49):
So now that we understand therelationship between strength
and size, kind of at a highlevel I don't want to get too
deep into the weeds here.
There's so much evidence andresearch out there that you
could explore I want to talkabout how training variables
differ between strength focusedand hypertrophy focused programs
, and again we're going to getto where these overlap and how

(09:10):
you can incorporate a little ofboth.
But I want to start withintensity right, Probably the
most important variable that Ilearned early on, especially
when you're getting started.
Intensity is not sweating orfeel, intensity is just the load
on the bar, it's how heavy youlift relative to your maximum in
this context.
All right.
So for strength development,research is clear on this

(09:33):
Lifting heavier weights issuperior and that means working
at 80 to 100% of your 1RM foryour core compound lifts.
The heavy weight forces maximalmotor unit recruitment from the
first rep.
That's what's important here,and it trains your nervous
system to handle near maximumlows.

(09:54):
And you can go down other rabbitholes and argue about intensity
versus volume.
I think both are extremelyimportant.
I think using intensity andthen jacking that up with volume
is a great approach.
Or going a little bit lessintense and making up for in
volume, or a little bit moreintense and a little bit less
volume.
It all works and in some casesyou cycle through both within

(10:17):
one training block Very common.
I just increased all of my maxlifts.
Doing that, I had a base phasewhere I had lots of volume
sub-maximal but then I switchedto a peaking phase where I was
in the 80 to 90% range with muchless volume, to train my
nervous system to get ready tohit those max singles, which

(10:38):
eventually I did, and itactually felt pretty easy when
you take the right approach.
So that's strength.
Now for hypertrophy, theintensity range is much broader,
which is kind of neat, becauseif you're really if you don't
care, I'll say care about yourmax PRs and you just want to
look better, you want to buildmuscle, you want to be generally
fit and strong, but not strongin terms of the maximum strength

(11:01):
.
A hypertrophy approach can behelpful and flexible.
It can give you a lot offlexibility because the evidence
confirms that muscle growthoccurs effectively from as low
as 30% up to 85% of your 1RM, aslong as the sets are
approaching muscular failure.
And the key factor here againis mechanical tension, not

(11:24):
necessarily how heavy the weightfeels.
And that's a distinction,because some people, I have to
be honest, are not training hardenough.
And the most recent program Iran and I have one of my
programs in the PhysiqueUniversity that is inspired by
Alex Bromley.
He has a volume-based approach,but the key is he uses AMRAP
sets while building thatstrength base so that you can

(11:47):
tell whether you are heavyenough on your load and you're
pushing hard enough, withouthaving to rely on subjective
feel.
And I think objectivity is areally helpful tool throughout
this process.
A 2017 meta-analysis by BradSchoenfeld found that when sets
are taken to momentary failure,muscle hypertrophy gains are

(12:07):
similar across a wide range ofloads.
However and this is reallyimportant maximal strength was
not equal across rep ranges.
So let me just repeat that whenyou take sets to failure just
for a moment, you're going togain hypertrophy no matter the
load, at least when it's abovethis 30% threshold, but your

(12:28):
strength isn't the same acrossdifferent rep ranges.
The same review found thatheavy load training produced
significantly greater one-armstrength gains than light load
training.
It's not really a surprise tothose of us that have done this
and trained with this, but it'simportant to understand that
that is the case.
That is where some of thedifferences exist.
The second major difference isvolume For hypertrophy total

(12:49):
volume, which is your sets timesreps.
You could also say times load,because that gives you your
tonnage and remember we aretalking about vastly different
load levels, so it's importantto have that in there.
Volume is a primary driver ofgrowth.
Meta-analysis indicate thatmultiple sets per exercise yield
more hypertrophy than singleset training, and higher weekly

(13:11):
sets per muscle group usuallyaround 10 to 20, tend to produce
more growth than lower volumes.
Now I've said before that aslow as five to 10 can still get
you a lot of the gains that youwant, but it's not optimal, it's
not going to get you the most.
And for those of you reallyserious about this that are
putting in the work, justunderstand you generally need
about 10 to 20 sets per week andagain, that's a pretty

(13:31):
well-established range that getstalked about in the industry by
now and it's it holds up, basedon the research.
So that's that's volume forhypertrophy.
Now strength training eventhough you do need adequate
volume, it places greateremphasis on intensity over
volume.
Right, you can't do as manysets with near maximal weights
without your performance tankingand having recovery issues and

(13:55):
tons of fatigue.
And that's where qualitybecomes more important than
quantity.
And that is why, again, to goback to the program I just ran,
when I was building the base Iwas far sub-maximal.
I was around 65, 70, 75% of mymax, doing more volume, and then
, as I got closer to my test, Iramped down the volume and

(14:16):
increased the intensity.
Another thing that changes quitea bit is the rest periods.
Strength training typicallyuses longer rest intervals
between your heavy sets three tofive, six, seven, eight, 10
minutes, sometimes even longerfor super heavy, let's say
deadlifts and this allows foryour ATP-CP this is the

(14:38):
adenosine triphosphate, creatinephosphate energy system to
replenish itself.
Right, it gets depleted veryquickly.
It also allows your centralnervous system to recover and
now you can go after maximalperformance on each set, which
is ultimately the goal, whereastraditional muscle mass or
hypertrophy training often usesshorter rests 60 seconds, minute

(15:03):
and a half, two minutes, threeminutes I usually like two to
three minutes for most, unlessyou are intentionally going
after building your workcapacity or doing a superset or
circuit style training where youare just trying to get to those
near failure reps quickly andthe theory here is you're trying
to increase your metabolicstress.

(15:23):
However, however important here, current evidence suggests that
longer rest intervals, evenwith hypertrophy, can actually
enhance the muscle growthbecause they allow you to have
more training volume, and thisgoes back to the volume versus
intensity, versus effective repsarguments.
A study by Schoenfeld comparedone minute versus three minute

(15:44):
rests in a hypertrophy programand found that the group that
used the longer three minuterests achieved significantly
larger muscle thickness gains.
The last thing here is exerciseselection is a pretty important
variable.
Strength programs are gonnafocus heavily on compound lifts,
compound movements that allowfor maximal loading.

(16:06):
These are the lifts where youuse multiple joints for maximum
use of muscle mass and loading.
And that would be your squat,your bench press, your overhead
press, your deadlifts, your evenrows and things like that,
whereas accessory work is alsochosen primarily to improve
these main lifts rather thannecessarily build muscle.

(16:27):
So those might be developmentalor targeted variations of the
squat, the bench, the dead, theoverhead, et cetera.
Hypertrophy programs can stillbe centered or foundational
around compound lifts, so don'tthink that it just excludes them
.
And when we say compound lifts,we also have to expand our
vocabulary to include all thevariations of compound lifts.

(16:50):
Like a Romanian deadlift isstill a compound lift, a pull-up
is still a compound lift.
However, hypertrophy programswill also include more isolation
exercises to target specificmuscles from multiple angles.
A bodybuilder might do flatbench, incline bench, decline,
bench flies for chestdevelopment.

(17:11):
They might do them all in oneday with a body part split.
A powerlifter, on the otherhand, might just do their flat
bench and maybe one or twovariations both on or on a
different day, like their otherupper body day, to address weak
spots, and might have some otherwork in there.
And that's the big caveat thatthere is a big overlap here,

(17:31):
because when you look at LouisSimmons and the West Side guys
and again I know they wereequipped, they were enhanced and
all that but if you look atsomething like the conjugate
method or really any powerbuilding program, you do see a
combination of both, with thetheory that one enhances the
other.
So I want to translate thisscience into practical
guidelines for your trainingbased on your primary goal, and

(17:54):
this is going to be a reallyimportant episode to come back
to when you're wondering if theprogram you're looking at or the
program you're designing ismeeting the goals you intend.
So if your main objective ismaximal strength, maybe you are
a competitive power lifter,maybe you just want to be as
strong as possible and, by theway, you can cycle through going

(18:15):
after strength, going aftermuscle, doing a little both.
If your objective is strength,here's how I would structure
your training.
I would center your workouts oncompound lifts, using primarily
the, let's say, one to six reprange at 80 to 90% of your 1RM
when you get close to hittingyour PR.

(18:35):
That doesn't mean you're alwaysworking in the 80 to 90%, and
that's one of the many caveats Ihave to give you here because
you're probably going to want toadd some volume at lower
percentages of your max as youbuild to those lower rep ranges.
And we see this in some of theclassic programs like 531, 852,
where you're cycling throughslightly higher rep ranges,

(18:57):
slightly sub max, and thenyou're getting more intense at
lower reps and then you'recycling through those.
You're also going to take longrest periods, and by long I mean
longer than you're probablyused to, but sufficient to
increase quality as much aspossible.
Quality is more important thanquantity here.
So at least bare minimum threeto five minutes between your

(19:19):
heavy sets.
You're going to focus onquality over quantity and that
just means that your form itshould always be important, but
when it comes to really heavylifts you've really got to be
dialed in on your form.
This usually means get a coachwho knows what the heck they're
talking about, which is alsohard to find sometimes.
But get a coach you know astarting strength coach is a

(19:41):
great idea.
Even if you're not doingstarting strength, they can help
you out.
You can definitely reach out tome.
I can refer you to peoplelocally or online.
There are good people.
There are good groups where youcould do form checks.
I think quality is reallyimportant because you're only
doing, let's say, three to fivesets and you're not doing that
many reps, but you're reallyhaving.

(20:02):
You've got to make sure thosereps are done well.
The next thing I think aboutwith strength training training
for strength is training withexplosive intent Really
important.
Listen to me here.
This is not wishy-washy.
Even though the weight ismoving slowly, you're going to
try to move it as fast aspossible on the concentric, like

(20:23):
in a squat.
That's the up part of the squat.
When you're driving up withyour hips, you're going to
explode into that movement.
You're going to at least thinkthat way to maximize your motor
unit recruitment.
This is important.
This is something I didn'tunderstand for a while.
You know a lot gets talkedabout tempo and time under
tension which, by the way, isnot a thing that is effective at
all time under tension.

(20:43):
But explosive concentricmovement is important.
The eccentric it can vary.
It depends on what you're goingfor.
It depends on if you're goingto have a pause in there and
everything.
But the explosive intent isimportant.
Avoid training to failure.
That is another important thing.
Your programming should bedesigned where you are somewhat
sub-max but still heavy anddoing the right amount of reps

(21:06):
so that you're at least probablytwo or three, if not four, reps
shy of failure.
Now, four reps shy of failure.
That is quote-unquote.
Six RPE and I rarely use Inever use RPE as a training
variable.
I only use it as a laggingindicator, as a metric to
evaluate how you did onsomething, but not as a metric
to tell.
I only use it as a lagging uhindicator, as a metric to
evaluate how you did onsomething, but not as a metric
to tell you how you should dosomething.

(21:27):
That's where I differ from fromsome folks.
But you want to stop short of.
You don't want to be in a totalgrind where it's an utter
failure on your main lifts.
The only time that shouldreally ever happen is if you are
testing a one rep max, then itit's, there's a chance it could
happen, right?
That's just because you'rereally trying to push to your
max ever.
And then here's the other thingpeople miss.

(21:48):
Okay, beyond the novice phase,you want to have strategic
accessory work in there, becauseyou're going to have weaknesses
and you have propensity forinjury when you're constantly
doing the same lifts and youhaven't used variations of those
lifts to try to shore up yourweak spots.
You're going to keep gettingkind of stronger in the primary

(22:09):
muscle groups involved in thatmovement while everything else
kind of lags, and we don't wantthat, and that's why there's
always a case to be made forsome variety once you get past
the novice stage.
So that's my thoughts onstrength training, and again,
those are principles.
I noticed I didn't give you anactual program, because there's
a million ways to do that, but Iwill suggest a few things later

(22:29):
on.
If your primary goal ishypertrophy, you want to look
bigger, you want to look moremuscular right, many of us want
that.
Even if we are trying to pushbig lifts, we still want that as
well.
Here's what I suggest.
You're going to use a blend, amix of compound and isolation
exercises.
So this is where you've got tohave some targeted work in there

(22:50):
to hit muscles from differentangles.
You're going to work in a widevariety of rep ranges.
You're going to work probablypredominantly in the middle,
like 6 to 12, which isequivalent to about 60 to 80% of
your one RM.
Notice, that's still prettyheavy.
But you're going to includesome lower rep work three to
five potentially, which soundslike strength, doesn't it?

(23:11):
And higher rep work 12 to 20.
I mean, if you're doing a legpress, 15, 20 reps believe it or
not, it can be super, supereffective.
That or hack squat or somethinglike that and it's still going
to feel pretty darn heavy andhard with all those reps.
Doing lots of reps is its ownmental challenge compared to
doing lower reps but heavy, andthen you're going to take these

(23:32):
sets pretty close to failuremost of the time.
If you're working in the lowrep range, like three to five,
you still may be more in thatstrength mindset of leaving a
little bit in the tank.
It should be two, three, fourreps.
But with most of the otherstuff, your accessories and
especially your isolationmovements you're probably going
to be around one to three repsof failure.
You're rarely going to go allthe way to failure, but it's

(23:53):
totally doable to do that withsomething like bicep curls,
where you just keep going, youkeep going, you keep going and
you literally cannot get anothertechnical rep and then you
failed and that's okay.
But there are some things whereyou don't want to do that.
And then we mentioned volume.
Volume is really important herebecause you want to accumulate
enough volume to grow yourmuscles.
So that is 10 to 20 sets permuscle group per week.

(24:15):
If you are time starved, if youjust have to be as efficient as
possible, going as low as fivecould give you some results, but
they're not gonna be optimal.
So 10 to 20 is solid.
The rest periods are gonna be,in general, two to three minutes
, but some may be as low as aminute or even 30 seconds.
Some small isolation work.
Or, of course, if you're doingthings like drop sets, mile reps

(24:36):
, rest, pause sets things thatI'm not even gonna get to detail
on here but supersets thingsthat I'm not even going to get
to detail on here, but a lot ofthe fun bodybuilding stuff,
supersets and so on.
They're very time efficientways to train and still get a
similar result but fit more workinto less time.
But generally I'm thinking twoto three minutes.
So if I'm going to do pull-ups,I'm going to rest two to three
minutes.
If I'm doing moderately heavybarbell curls, I'm going to go

(25:00):
two to three minutes.
Now, if I'm doing 20 reps ofdumbbell, hammer curls with rest
pause sets, well, those bydefinition are going to be
probably only about 30 seconds.
You're also going to when youdo bodybuilding or hypertrophy
type work.
There is sometimes a benefit tohaving a really controlled

(25:20):
eccentric.
That's the lowering phase.
Now, this is not because oftime under tension.
This is more so that you getthat pause in the bottom and
that stretch in the lengthenedposition, and it also makes it a
little bit harder to come back.
You're taking out the stretchreflex.
I found that's really good fortendons and connective tissue as
well.
So one of the things I'velearned a lot from injuries and

(25:42):
surgeries is the value ofpausing.
And when I do, for example, aneasy bar curl, I don't just go
all the way down and just smackit back up, back and forth like
bouncing out of the bottom.
I go all the way down almostfully unlocked.
I don't go all the way 100%unlocked, but pretty close to it
, where it's a very stretchedbicep, I pause for a half second

(26:03):
and then go again.
It's not like I'm waiting downthere for a minute, but try it
out.
It will make it a little harder, you will have to drop the load
slightly, but you'll get in avery effective workout.
And then, of course, you want totrain each muscle group at
least twice per week, and thisis more of the frequency
variable that we didn't reallytouch on yet.
We talked about intensity, wetalked about volume, but
frequency is also important, andyou're going to want to hit

(26:26):
every muscle group at leasttwice a week, not necessarily
directly, right?
If you hit triceps one day andyou're doing close grip bench
the other day, you hit yourtriceps twice.
So directly and indirectly, butone at least once directly and
then and then at least twice ormore directly or indirectly.
Total, now, that's strength andthat's hypertrophy.

(26:46):
But where most people getconfused is well, I want both,
like I want to have my cake andeat it too, and you kind of can.
Okay, this is where powerbuilding comes in.
The quote unquote powerbuilding, and I have no problem
with the term.
Some people roll their eyes.
Oh, power building, what isthat?
I don't think we have to judgethe term, just define what it
means.
And so I think it's anexcellent approach for

(27:07):
intermediate lifters.
I got introduced to it throughmy coach, andy Baker.
He's been on the show likethree times, I think he has the
record for being on the show,and since then I've discovered
lots of other coaches who have asimilar style approach to
programming.
It's a lot of fun.
It covers both strength andhypertrophy, both styles.
It helps you learn a lot aboutyour form, about lifts, about
how to program for yourself,about how to manage fatigue and

(27:29):
recovery.
I'm like a walking sales pitchfor it because I think, like
most, let's say, the guys Iidentify with in their forties
who don't have a crap ton oftime, they have some time and
they dedicate time to trainingfor sure, maybe four days a week
for an hour, hour and a half,but they want to get both and
they're like well, if I justfocus on going after max PRS, my

(27:50):
muscle development's going tolag.
If I just go after bodybuilding, I'm going to not get those PRS
that I really want.
Okay, you can, you can combineboth, and so to do that, you're
usually going to start yourtraining session with a heavy
compound lift or two in thatstrength regime, three to six
rep range.
Maybe you're cycling throughwhatever.
You're then going to follow itwith some accessory or targeted

(28:12):
developmental work that gets youa little bit of hypertrophy, a
little bit of strength support.
Right, it works on your weakspots.
But also maybe you're in theeight to 12 range for some
muscle growth as well, and itreally depends on the movement,
some parts of your work trainingblock you might be doing goblet
squats as your variation,others you might be doing safety

(28:33):
bar, heel elevated squats, andone might be more fatiguing than
the other.
So you're going to have tojudge how many sets you're going
to end up doing, how much restyou need and what rep ranges you
work in.
And then you're going to includeboth strength specific
exercises to support the youknow, the competition lifts
basically, but also bodybuildingstyle isolation work.

(28:53):
So it's sort of a whole gamut,kind of like a spectrum, and it
usually looks like compoundaccessory isolation, each of
those being one or two lifts.
So a total of anywhere fromthree to six, seven or eight
lifts, depending on how muchtime you have and how many sets
you're doing, how much volumeyou can take, how much
recoverability you have.
And then you're going toperiodize your training over

(29:14):
time.
You might spend part of thattime let's say four to eight
weeks, not really doing many ofthe main lifts but just doing a
lot of accessory versions ofthem and emphasizing hypertrophy
.
But then you might spend 48weeks really just focusing a lot
on the big lifts and again,nothing precludes you from going
all in on strength for a whileand all in on hypertrophy for a
while, and all of this stuffrecognizes the fundamental truth

(29:37):
that strength and sizecomplement each other, and you
will be better for it if you docycle through.
I am not talking about programhopping.
I'm talking about spending amethodical, dedicated length of
time in one mode learn about it,grow from it, get everything
you can from it and then say,okay, I have achieved some level

(29:59):
of growth that is meaningful tome.
Now I'm going to go and work ona different part of my growth,
because that kind of varietyitself can be very powerful.
More muscles does give yougreater strength potential.
Getting stronger does allow youto use heavier weights for your
hypertrophy work, and so itcreates a virtuous positive

(30:22):
feedback loop.
I'm experiencing that right now.
I just hit my maxes last weekmy squat bench and dead and now
I'm back to doing a little bitmore power building and I'm
finding that I'm way stronger ina bunch of my accessory and
isolation lifts.
Well, great, what does thatallow me to do?
That allows me to build moremuscle from those.
You can't just stay stuck inone.

(30:44):
One of the guys I follow.
He was on the show he ownsMacrofactor he's part of
Stronger by Science is GregKnuckles.
You guys know Greg Knuckles, Ifnot, look him up.
Great guy, respected, veryrespected strength researcher.
He nerds out on this stuff andhe summarizes this strength
hypertrophy relationshipperfectly.
He said early on in training,muscle mass explains only a few

(31:07):
percent of strength gains and inexperienced lifters it can
explain 65% or more.
And I mentioned that earlierand I wanted to reiterate it
here in a single quote.
All right, when you startyou've got to get strong and as
you get more experience you cando a little of both, and this
shows why an integrated approachis going to yield the best
result.
When you become more advancedand more advanced doesn't take

(31:29):
long to get to.
If you do this right, yournovice phase might be six months
long, maybe nine months, maybea year max, but then you're an
intermediate lifter, then you goafter it.
So, as we clarify thisrelationship between strength
and hypertrophy, I want toaddress some of the mistakes and
misconceptions that could beholding you back right now
listening to this, becauseyou've heard it over and over in

(31:50):
the fitness industry and it'sjust plain wrong.
Okay, the first one is thisnotion that you must train super
heavy to build muscle.
Now I respect the startingstrength guys, mark Ripoteau, I
came through that world.
It changed my life.
Everyone should buy StartingStrength.
In fact, I think StartingStrength is a phenomenal
beginner program for anybody tofollow and if If you just follow

(32:11):
it, you're going to be golden.
However, there is a lot ofdiscussion about how only
training that way is sufficientto build muscle, and I know they
don't always mean that.
What they're saying is fornovices don't worry about
building muscle, just get strongand the muscle is going to
follow.
That is true, I do agree withthat.
But if your goal is to buildmuscle, you don't necessarily

(32:32):
need the heavy close to maximumload training.
Goal is to build muscle, youdon't necessarily need the heavy
close to maximum load training.
Research definitively showsthat moderate weights as low as
30% of your 1RM can build justas much muscle as heavy weights,
provided the sets are takennear failure.
The key is always again,mechanical tension and effort,
not absolute load, and this isgreat news if you just want to

(32:55):
enjoy the process of buildingmuscle.
You have joint issues.
Maybe you have limitedequipment that you can't get to
those loads.
You're just not interested inmaximal strength.
Now I still think that's goingto limit you long-term in terms
of overall size and muscledevelopment, but you're still
going to build a ton of muscle.
The second thing is the ideathat you can get as strong as

(33:17):
possible without focusing onbuilding muscle, and I don't
think the research supports that.
I think, early on, getting asstrong as possible is the way to
go.
It's very efficient.
It's what you need becausebeginners can get stronger
through neural adaptationswithout much increase in size,
but advanced lifters almostuniversally need more muscle to
keep getting stronger.
If you've been training foryears and your strength has

(33:39):
plateaued, then focusing onhypertrophy for a while might be
exactly what you need.
And I hear it anecdotally everyday.
Somebody says look, I took abreak from going.
After PRs, I worked on a morewell-rounded training program
for muscular development.
I came back and a lot of mylifts increased.
Now it doesn't mean it's gonnadirectly translate to a specific
lift right away, but it's gonnaallow you to get to new levels

(34:04):
of maximal strength and I thinkthat's an important caveat or an
important nuance in that.
For example, the program that Ijust ran I didn't just start
right away in triples, doublesand singles in the hopes that I
just ran.
I didn't just start right awayin triples, doubles and singles
in the hopes that I was going toget new PRs.
No, I actually took a step backand I did more volume to get
exposed to the movement patternswhile being in more of a
hypertrophy range, and then Istarted to shift more toward the

(34:28):
strength range as it supportedmy strength and then I could hit
new numbers.
Does that make sense?
I hope that makes sense.
The third big myth is thatgetting a pump, feeling the burn
, getting sore, means aneffective hypertrophy workout.
I am all for getting a pump.
It's fun.
It is fun and you will get sorewhen you're exposed to a

(34:50):
movement for the first time ortwo.
That's totally normal.
And while metabolic stresscontributes a little bit to
growth, again mechanical tensionis the primary driver.
The more research has come out,the more we've discovered
that's the case.
A workout that leaves youpumped and sore is not
necessarily better for musclegrowth than one focused on

(35:11):
progressively loading, usinggood form and getting that
mechanical tension.
And you know you're hittingmechanical tension.
When you're somewhat close tofailure and you're actually able
to lift more the next time, Imean that's a really good
indicator that you're getting it, not that you're sore, you're
getting a pump, et cetera.
And then another misconceptionis thinking that bodybuilders

(35:33):
are not strong or thatpowerlifters don't care about
muscle, Because at the elitelevel I've talked to these guys
directly or on the podcast, orI've listened to them there's a
lot more specialization at theelite level and most successful
bodybuilders are super strong.
They could not get to the sizethey are without being strong.

(35:55):
Most accomplished power liftersthey've built tons of muscle
mass.
Just stop trying to separatethem as if they are in separate
vacuums.
They are not the difference inthose athletes.
Their training emphasis andtheir competition goals cause
them to train a bit differently,but their fundamental
physiological adaptations arethe same.

(36:18):
The last thing I want to saythat is super important and
useful program hopping is notgoing to help you.
Program hopping betweenstrength and hypertrophy
approaches like really quickly,within just like a few weeks at
a time, without giving it eithertime to work, is going to set
you back for years.
You're just gonna be stuck.

(36:40):
You've gotta give it time andyou have to have patience.
Both strength and sizedevelopment require consistently
training, showing up to the gym, progressive loading over time,
over months and over yearsperiod.
I'm sorry to say it, but I'mnot sorry, because once you get
into it and you realize how funthe process itself can be, you

(37:01):
are not fixated on that finalnumber.
There is no final number.
I look back every year and Isay, well, I wanted to
accomplish X and I realized Iaccomplished Y, and Y might be
more or less than X and it mightbe different than X, but I've
grown and that's reallyimportant.
And then you learn from that.
But if you jump betweenprograms every few weeks, you're
not going to have theaccumulation of adaptations, of

(37:22):
volume, of even frequency,needed for significant progress.
So stop doing it.
So now that we've covered thescience and the practice, I want
to give you one more thing thatmight change how you view your
training career, and that's whatit is.
If you're listening to Wits andWeights, strength training
should be at the top of yourlist numero uno.

(37:45):
It is the driver of bodycomposition more than anything
else.
Whether you're trying to losefat, build muscle, whatever,
look great, feel great, get lean, the relationship between
strength and hypertrophy isgoing to change dramatically
based on how long you've beentraining.
So I want you to think aboutthis your training career when
you're a beginner a lot of youare.

(38:06):
You're listening to me.
You're thinking I got to getoff the couch, I got to start
training.
Or maybe I used to work outyears ago, I've got to get back
to it.
Or maybe I've been going to thegym for 10 years but I'm not
really getting the results.
You're a beginner.
You are a beginner.
If you don't feel like rightnow you are constantly getting
stronger and growing andbuilding muscle, you're doing
something wrong and you're abeginner and that's okay.
I envy you because you couldnow, doing it the right way, get

(38:30):
jacked and strong so quickly.
And so beginners want to focusprimarily on getting stronger.
In that moderate rep range,I'll say four to six to really
narrow it down for you.
Right, fives are classicallythrown out there because of
starting strength and what is itcalled?
Strong lifts?
Five by five, all of those, buteven like five to 10, you know,

(38:51):
through compound lifts you'rejust going to get so strong and
you're going to build some size.
Once you get past that first fewweeks of neuromuscular
efficiency and actually startadding new muscle, it is the
most efficient path period.
The neurological adaptationscome quickly.
They call them newbie gains.
The moderate volume providesenough stimulus for initial

(39:12):
growth.
And then you have a lot offrequency in that you are like
squatting every session.
You're deadlifting everysession and you can do that.
Don't think that you need tosquat once every two weeks.
You're not advanced enough todo that.
You need to do it frequently.
So a program like StartingStrength, as mentioned before,
is ideal for this.
And you know, if I remember todo so, I'm going to throw a link

(39:33):
in.
No, you know what, I'm notgoing to throw a link in my show
notes.
I already have a link to theworkout programs from Physique
University in the show notes andin that file.
All you have to do is ask forit.
You'll download it In that file.
If you go to the novice tab, itactually mentions starting
strength and it points you toresources, a walkthrough that
I've done on it, all the thingsyou need to know.

(39:53):
It's all in there, okay, and Igive you other options for
novice programs as well.
These things will producestrength and visible muscle
gains.
If you're a novice and thosefirst six, nine, 12 months are
magical, if you do itconsistently, if you eat enough,
if you sleep enough, it'samazing.
I am jealous for you.
You've got to get on that rightnow.

(40:13):
Now for intermediates who havebeen training for, say, one to
three years, seriously doing itthe right way, using a barbell,
using heavy implements, whateverit takes to get stronger from
wherever you were, wherever youstarted, power building, I think
, is great.
I think the power buildingapproach might be I don't want
to say yields the quote unquotebest results.

(40:34):
That's a subjective statement.
But it gives you enough heavywork to keep developing that
neurological efficiency and keepthose movement patterns in
there, but also sufficientvolume, variety, frequency of
smaller isolation work tocontinue building muscle.
So it's a nice blend if youhave the time and the
inclination for it.
It's also a lot of fun.
I think it's a great way tojust keep yourself motivated.

(40:56):
And now, if you're more advancedthan that, if you're pushing
four, five, six years of seriousprogressive training getting
strong, building muscle, you'regoing to need greater
specialization period.
Your nervous system adaptationsare pretty much tapped out.
They've maxed out.
Further strength gains aregoing to correlate very heavily
on increasing your muscle size,as we've mentioned a couple of

(41:18):
times already.
I mean this is why elite powerlifters include distinct
hypertrophy blocks in theirtraining cycle.
This is why Westside has powerbuilding, slash hypertrophy work
constantly in there.
They've got speed work, they'vegot bands and chains
accommodating resistance.
All of this specialization.
You know you may have a part ofyour body that does not respond

(41:39):
as quickly as others.
Maybe it's your biceps, maybeit's your back, maybe it's your
calves guys, you know the calvesare tough for a lot of us Maybe
it's your glutes, whatever itis that you want to get bigger,
you might have to specialize,you might need more frequency or
a more targeted approach.
And so you know, when you justlook at competitive power
lifters including those and youunderstand why and conversely,

(42:00):
bodybuilders right, who areadvanced bodybuilders, they're
going to spend time in somestrength periods in the off
season, when they're eating,when they're not dieting right,
because dieting is a big part ofbodybuilding leading up to
competition.
But in the improvement season,the off season, they're going to
be pushing their strength inthe key lifts, not to mention
the accessories and theisolation work.
They want to be able to handleheavier weights, they want to

(42:20):
have better connective tissueand joint health and ability to
handle their fatigue and theirrecovery.
And they might not test their1RMs all the time, but they will
track their strength to ensurethat they're actually improving
and getting stronger.
So the surprising truth, I'llsay, is that for most of us, who

(42:42):
I would call enthusiasts orrecreational lifters, the goals
of strength and hypertrophy arenot competing, they're
complementary.
And if you know how to balanceand periodize both types of
training kind of like, webalance and periodize fat loss
and muscle building phases,calorie deficits and calorie
surpluses, and it's based onyour experience level, based on

(43:02):
the year time of year, based onyour personal preferences and
enjoyment, based on how muchstress you have right now, based
on how much recoverability youhave, based on your diet itself.
Your diet and your trainingactually go hand in hand as to
which one you focus on when.
If you're trying to max outyour PRs, you probably should be
doing that while you're eatinga bunch of food and sleeping

(43:22):
right, not in a dieting phase.
You're just not going to.
So if you can do that, you canachieve impressive gains in both
, and you're not going tosacrifice either.
You're not.
It's going to work out, itreally will.
And isn't that liberating toknow that you do not have to
choose between being strong andlooking strong right, if you
have smart programming, you canhave both.

(43:44):
So the next time that you aredesigning your training program
or evaluating whether you shouldfollow this strength-focused
program here, thispower-building program here,
this hypertrophy program here,remember a few things from this
episode and re-review thisepisode.
I think it's important.
Number one both strength andhypertrophy training rely on
mechanical tension, but theyoptimize different aspects of it

(44:08):
.
Number two is that strengthrequires heavier loads, usually
up above 65% of your 1RM,ideally around 80% or higher to
maximize the neural adaptations,the movement patterns.
Number three is thathypertrophy can occur across a
much broader range of loads, aslow as 30% of your 1RM, as long
as you're training hard, as longas your effort is sufficient to

(44:30):
get close to failure, to getthat mechanical tension.
Number four if you're a beginner, get strong, get strong in the
compound movements, ideally witha barbell.
Number five if you're anintermediate, blend heavy
strength work with hypertrophywork and kind of work them both
in in a power building style.
That's usually an efficient wayto do it.
And then, number six, if you'readvanced, you've got to

(44:51):
specialize and recognize thatsize and strength will always
continue to be interconnected.
So I want you to understand thescience at this point is pretty
clear.
We're not really fuzzy on this.
If you understand therelationship between strength
and hypertrophy, you can trainmore intelligently and
efficiently, saving time,avoiding the confusion that
plagues so many lifters outthere that do not have a clue.

(45:13):
And if you think you don't havea clue, listen to this episode
at least two times and reach outfor help.
Go, download my programs.
Join Wits and Weights PhysiqueUniversity.
We'll help you figure it allout.
And by applying theseevidence-based principles.
That's what they are.
They're principles.
It's not specific methods orprograms.
It's principles.
If you can apply them, you'regoing to optimize your results.

(45:34):
You will, I guarantee it.
It's physics, it's biology.
It's going to work, whetheryour goal is to lift more weight
, build more muscle or both, allright.
So if you're ready to put theseprinciples into action because
that is what you need next, guys, ladies and gentlemen, you need
action.
I've created a complete set ofstrength and physique focused
workout programs from WhitsonWeights Physique University.

(45:57):
We drop a new set every monthand I'm giving you the latest
month if you use the link in myshow notes and I've got programs
in there for novice,intermediate, advanced,
different levels of equipment,different days per week.
The programs incorporate bothstrength and hypertrophy
elements and they give youbalanced development depending
on where you are in yourtraining age.

(46:18):
There's a built-in log, there'sexercise substitutions, there's
links to videos.
It's got everything.
Guys, what are you waiting for?
It's totally free.
Go to witsowheightscom, slashfree or, better yet, just click
the link in the show notes todownload your free copy today.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits, lifting those weights
, and remember, with the righttraining approach, you don't

(46:38):
have to choose between beingstrong and looking strong.
You can have both.
I'll talk to you next time hereon the Wits and Weights Podcast
.

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Strength vs. Hypertrophy (The 65% Threshold for Lifters Chasing PRs vs. Muscle Size) | Ep 297

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Strength vs. Hypertrophy (The 65% Threshold for Lifters Chasing PRs vs. Muscle Size) | Ep 297