October 27, 2025 • 24 mins
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--
Your tax dollars paid for a government study on alcohol and cancer. Scientists completed it. Then it disappeared.
Discover why a major health study was buried, what the evidence-based research actually reveals about alcohol's cancer risk, and how this impacts your nutrition choices and long-term health.
Learn the truth about alcohol consumption that affects your metabolism, body composition, and longevity goals.
Episode Resources:
- Alcohol Intake and Health Study
- National Cancer Institute: Alcohol and Cancer Risk
- WHO Europe: No safe level of alcohol consumption
Timestamps:
0:00 - The buried alcohol-cancer study
1:11 - Why this matters for your health and body composition
2:43 - How the study vanished and why
3:52 - Surgeon General's warning label push
5:46 - International evidence on cancer risk
7:04 - What the science shows about alcohol and cancer
9:19 - How alcohol damages DNA and disrupts metabolism
11:28 - Light drinking still increases cancer risk
14:41 - Industry lobbying keeps labels off bottles
17:12 - Debunking "alcohol is heart-healthy" myths
20:21 - Understanding relative vs absolute risk
23:01 - Alcohol's impact on muscle building and protein synthesis
25:45 - How alcohol affects fat loss and body composition
28:30 - Practical drinking strategies for lifters
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👋 Ask a question or find Philip Pape on Instagram
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Philip Pape (00:00):
Did you know that back in 2022, the US government
commissioned a study on alcoholand cancer?
The study was finished, andthen someone decided, eh, maybe
we don't want to release that.
Meanwhile, the Surgeon Generalis calling for cancer warning
labels on bottles of alcohol,and many Americans, many people
in general, have no idea alcoholis even linked to cancer.
(00:20):
So, what exactly is in thatburied report?
And what does the evidence wedo have say about your cancer
risk when it comes to alcohol?
Let's find out.
And today is gonna be aninteresting one because we're
(00:51):
talking about alcohol, but froma different perspective.
Now, I'm not here to tell youto never have a beer or a glass
of wine.
I have one myself on rareoccasions, but what I am here to
do is give you a full,unfiltered picture of what the
evidence shows so you can maketruly authentically informed
decisions about your health.
And when a government, in thiscase the US government,
(01:14):
commissions a scientific studywith your tax dollars, whatever
your opinion is on that, andthen they complete the study and
then they refuse to release thefindings from a frankly
perfectly well done study, thatis a bit concerning.
It's also an issue withtransparency, especially when
you went through this wholeprocess and then you buried the
(01:36):
information.
And the information is actuallypretty powerful when it comes
to the stuff that we care abouton this podcast.
And I hope you know nobodymight now.
I'm trying, I try not to bepreachy.
I just want to be honest about,you know, when information's
out there and there aredifferent actors, different
players, whether it's uh aninfluencer on social media or
government institution or anindividual that are hiding
(01:58):
something or not telling thefull story, that we can bring
out what the reality is andreally focus on that, not so
much on attacking all of thesesources.
That's not what I do.
I don't do the hot takes andthe call-outs.
It's more of, hey, what do youneed to know?
So here I'm just gonna jumpinto it today because it's a
this pretty cool topic, to behonest.
It's it's scary though.
Um, here are the facts that arebased on some different
(02:19):
investigative reports that I wasable to get on podcasts, on
news, on different sources.
And this is obviously the firstsource of potential issue in
that what can you trust todaywhen it comes to news?
But I I kind of pieced ittogether, and it looks like back
uh three years ago, 2022, theHHS, HHS, the Health and Human
(02:39):
Services in the US, commissionedthe alcohol intake and health
study.
Okay, the alcohol intake andhealth study.
And you're obviously free tolook all of this up online, make
your best decision and judgmentabout this information.
And the goal of the study wasto gather the latest evidence on
alcohol and health so that theycould update the federal
dietary guidelines.
(03:00):
So this is taxpayer-fundedresearch, and most of this
research, and in this case, itwas conducted by independent
academic groups.
Okay.
So assuming we trust, you know,who did the study, we're not
going to get into that.
The study was done, it wascompleted, it was finalized,
ready for pop publication, andthen crickets.
And I'm not even, many of usdon't even know about this.
(03:21):
Um honestly, I didn't learnabout it until this year.
That's why I'm doing thisepisode.
So just in the last few months,different reports found that
despite the report beingcompleted, the federal officials
didn't release it, probably dueto, you guessed it, politics,
industry pressure, whatever,whatever the motives are, the
research was paid for, which itkind of pisses me off, right?
(03:42):
Because these are my taxdollars, they're spending on
this stuff, and again, whetheryou agree or not, and then
someone's like, hey, we did thestudy, it was a good study, but
we're not gonna release the datafor ulterior reasons.
So if we go back to January of2025, the Surgeon General Vivek
Murphy issued a public advisorycalling for cancer warning
labels on all alcohol.
And he cited evidence linkingalcohol to seven cancer types.
(04:06):
And I think he all evenmentioned that most Americans
don't even know that alcoholcauses cancer.
And it's not something that wetalk about too often, although
the few guests that I've had onto discuss alcohol have
absolutely discussed thelong-term links and correlations
between alcohol and cancer.
And at the time, if you go backand look at the data, what
happened?
Well, the stock market foralcohol stocks took a tank, you
(04:28):
know, took a drop, and there wassome pushback by industry.
And then the study itself thatwas buried, people are like,
hey, did you know this was outthere?
Maybe this is relevant.
What maybe we should see whatit actually says.
And then you go to mid-2025, sothis is a few months later,
there's some reports in the newsthat show the federal, the
(04:50):
drafts of the federal guidancewere being watered down.
So you have this internationalconsensus starting to tighten
around the risks of alcohol andcancer.
And then the guidance here inthe US for the federal guide
guidelines starts going theopposite direction, dropping all
this language about strongerlimits.
And then in October, soliterally, I think when this
(05:11):
episode comes out, actually, ifyeah, October 2025, there was
another piece of evidence thatreaffirmed alcohol is a major
preventable cause of cancer withno amount, no amount of alcohol
being entirely risk-free.
I think that was the IARC.
So you've got the strongerwarnings on one hand, you've got
our surgeon general in the USeven kind of agreeing with that.
(05:33):
Then you have this funded studybeing kept from public view.
So that's kind of thebackground.
Whatever you make of it, I hopeI didn't, I hope I gave it a pr
fairly objective treatment ofjust telling you all the sides
of what's going on.
And so what if we just ignoredall that and said, hey, what
does the evidence say alreadyabout alcohol and cancer?
What does the existing researchsay?
(05:54):
The National Cancer Institutedoes have a public fact sheet.
You can look it up, and it saysclearly that alcohol
consumption is a risk factor forseveral cancers.
And it has the strongestevidence for seven in
particular (06:06):
breast cancer in women, colorectal cancer,
esophageal, liver, laryngeal,oral cavity cancer, and
pharyngeal cancer.
Of course, you can hear severalmouth cancers in there, right?
So you've got colon, you've gotesophagus, esophagus, liver,
various parts of the mouth andthroat, breast cancer in women.
And there's nothing mysteriousabout this, right?
(06:28):
We know how alcohol works inthe body.
It gets broken down, getsbroken down into acetyldehyde,
which, and I never pronouncethat right.
That's the toxin.
And what that toxin does, oneof the things that toxin does is
damages your DNA.
Like many foreign substancesthat damage DNA, just like when
you smoke, anybody who smokes,you're basically constantly
damaging and mutating your DNA.
That's why it leads to cancer.
(06:48):
And the other thing thatconsumption of alcohol does is
it limits nutrient absorption.
We know that it turns off allprocessing of all the other
macros while your body ismetabolizing the alcohol.
And that could have an impactagainst cancer protection
mechanisms in the body, likefolate.
Okay, so now you're notabsorbing certain nutrients, at
least for a time, especially ifyou're a frequent drinker.
(07:10):
But you don't even have to bethat frequent of a drinker.
We're gonna get to that.
It also affects your hormones,it increases estrogen and other
hormones that are tied to breastcancer and acts as a solvent,
which helps carcinogenspenetrate your cell membrane.
So it's just a lot ofinteresting mechanisms.
And of course, as always, thedose response relationship is
(07:30):
important.
It's relevant because the moreyou consume, the higher your
risk.
What's important to know thoughis even very light drinking
shows an elevated risk forcertain cancers versus no
drinking.
So it's kind of like that bigstep up.
It's kind of like you go fromyour baseline, you have even one
drink, and you get a step up,another drink, another step up.
(07:51):
And so we're trying to figureout that point at which we
should really be concerned,especially if we care about our
health and longevity.
Now, in this, I think it's inthe same fact sheet, or I don't
know where I got it, but I havenotes from the NCI that says
that some cancers, like femalebreast cancer, for those, the
risk increases even at moderate,quote unquote, or light quote
unquote levels.
(08:12):
So one drink per day increasesbreast cancer risk, and two
drinks per day roughly doublescertain cancer risk.
And this is compared tonon-drinkers, of course.
The WHO Europe 2023, again, youguys can judge these
institutions however you want.
I'm just sharing theinformation.
They said, quote, when it comesto alcohol consumption, there's
(08:33):
no safe amount that does notaffect health.
And, you know, a lot of peoplesay, hey, this is one of the
world's leading public healthorganizations.
Whether you agree with it ornot, it's it's a pretty strong
statement, right?
And it's out of Europe, wherethey actually have a lot of
alcohol consumption.
So that's interesting too, forwhat it's worth.
The IARC classifies alcohol asa group one carcinogen, which is
(08:56):
the same category as tobaccoand asbestos.
And it means that there'senough evidence that it does
cause cancer in humans.
So I would at least want toplay it a little bit safe here
and say, okay, there's a linkbetween alcohol and cancer to
some extent.
There is.
And if we have information viarecently funded studies that
further strengthen that evidenceand that gets buried, you have
(09:20):
to question why.
And maybe you don't care aboutwhy.
Maybe you just care that thefact that it was buried and we
want to know the information.
What is the information?
And I'm gonna just take a quickbreak here because we're gonna
get into the politics of publichealth in a bit.
We're gonna talk about some ofthe nuances and then what this
means for you practically.
We have a lot of interestinginformation outside the podcast,
(09:41):
and much of it is free,including these free guides.
If you go to wits and waste.comslash free, I was going through
our guides and I realized wehave one called Eating Out, the
Eating Out Guide.
And it's one of the most commonquestions I get is like, what
do I do when I go out and I'mpresented with alcohol and
appetizers and salads and I'mgoing out with friends, they're
having pizza, all that stuff.
So go to wits and waste.comslash free, free or click the
link in the show notes for myeating out guide.
(10:02):
I think it's a good complimentto since we're talking about
alcohol today and you probablytuned in to learn about alcohol,
it's a good way to make smartchoices and handle social
drinking situations and stayaligned with your goals and
still enjoy life, right?
And and that that's back,that's bringing us back to the
practical side of this.
So witsandwaits.com slash freeor click the link in the show
notes.
All right, that was just aquick tangent because now we get
(10:24):
back into the serious stuff.
Why was this study buried?
If you look at the US alcoholindustry, it's massive, right?
Tens of billions in annualrevenue, probably big lobbying
power in Washington, like manyindustries.
And I'm sure they don't wantcancel cancel warning labels on
their products because they'veseen what's happened to the
cigarette industry since thatoccurred.
(10:44):
And that's because these labelstend to work, right?
When you put warnings onproducts, people consume fewer
of them.
They start talking about them adifferent way.
We know smoking droppeddramatically after the warning
labels and the PR campaigns, thepublic education campaigns, to
the point where I've seen in myown lifetime, I was born in
1980, you know, smoking sectionsin restaurants and lots of
(11:07):
people smoking everywhere, toit's like stigma.
It's a stigma now that you knowyou're ostracized if you smoke.
For again, for better or worse,whatever, you know, freedom,
choice, blah, blah, blah.
Not even getting into any ofthat.
I'm just sharing what I've seenhappen.
And so the alcohol industry,alcohol is a very interesting
thing because we we glamorizeit, right?
And again, I consume alcoholvery rarely these days compared
(11:28):
to what I used to because Iunderstand its health impacts
and I don't, I want to take careof my health.
But there, there's been a lotof messaging over the decades,
like red wine is good for yourheart.
You guys have heard that one.
You've heard the talk aboutresveratrol in red wine.
And all of those have beendebunked.
Like there is zero positive toalcohol in any respect
whatsoever.
(11:49):
Zero, zero.
So if you're still hearing someof those messages, or alcohol
is fine in moderation, like thatit's healthy in moderation,
absolutely zero.
No, that is not true.
There's zero positive when itcomes to alcohol.
I just want to put that outthere.
Okay.
That's different from sayingyou can't ever enjoy, I
shouldn't use the word enjoy,but imbibe or consume something
(12:12):
that you want to consume forsome reason that's different.
Okay.
And you think of terms likeresponsible drinking and
moderation.
Again, that is interestinglanguage that twists what you
think about them.
Where you're like, okay, thisis, I get social benefits.
You know, you look at beercommercials, Corona, whatever,
where they're partying on thebeach, right?
(12:32):
We we all know the thing.
And certain things getglamorized as well, even in
other areas, like cigars.
I am surprised.
A lot of my friends who arelistening are probably gonna be
called out on this that you'vegot guys in the fitness industry
who smoke cigars and thinkthat's okay.
I'll say not okay.
It's perfectly okay from afreedom perspective and choice
perspective, but it still hassome cancer risk, just like
cigarette smoking.
(12:52):
It's just a fact.
And they may know this and theymay choose to do it anyway, and
that's fine too.
So we got to look at data andalso understand marketing.
And then when we throw politicsinto the mix, now we have
science and politics bashingheads, which is always uh an
interesting partnership.
Because again, the SurgeonGeneral actually called for
warning labels, which means itgot to a level where they were
(13:13):
possibly going to do that,right?
And he doesn't even control thelabeling.
Congress does, right?
And that, and of course, theindustry knows that, so of
course, they they just have toprevent Congress from doing
that.
And I think they've beensuccessful, right?
It looks like they've beensuccessful.
So that's kind of the politicsbehind it.
Again, for better or worse,what you believe, whatever side
of the aisle you're on, etcetera.
So I want to I want to steelman the other side because I do
(13:37):
want to give enough nuance and Iguess fairness if that's if
that word even applies here.
I'm not sure.
Not all cancer associationswith alcohol.
So not all links between cancerand alcohol are equally strong
across all consumption levels.
Remember, I mentioned breastcancer before.
I mentioned that specificallybecause they get separated out
as far as their impact.
(13:57):
A there was a NationalAcademy's report that basically
said, look, some have a muchmore cautious or conservative
link based on what we think wesee in the evidence.
And that there's a lot of mixedevidence as well, which is to
be expected in the scientificcommunity.
If you listen to my episodewith Dr.
(14:18):
Eric Helms, we go into greatdepth on falsification and on
empiricism and all of that.
What we do know is the linkbetween what's called moderate
consumption and colon cancer iswell established.
And that that concerns me assomeone with a history and who
you know is male because thatthat tends to affect more men,
(14:39):
right?
Just like breast cancer affectsmore women.
For other cancer types, therelative risk increase at low
levels of alcohol is small, it'sstill non-zero, but it's
smaller than, say, colon canceror the breast cancer.
Now, the way that we talk aboutthese risks is important too
because it's very confusing,right?
If one drink per day increasesbreast cancer risk, what does
(15:03):
that mean in absolute terms?
What does that mean?
If you look at the baselinelifetime risk for US women for
breast cancer, it's 13%.
And one drink per day mightincrease that to 14 to 15%.
Now, is that a big deal?
Statistically, it is.
Individually, you might saythat it's not, but you can only
weigh these risks if you knowabout them.
(15:25):
That's kind of the point.
That's why I'm actually makingthis episode.
Right now, less than half ofAmericans actually know that
alcohol causes any type ofcancer at all.
And I think that's a big gap inawareness.
And I'll be honest, I reallywasn't clear on that till much,
till very recently, especiallywhen I got into the nutrition
world, finally started to belike, okay, we need to pay
attention to this stuff.
You know, we need to payattention to this because the
(15:48):
link is much stronger than, say,the link between eating
processed foods and cancer,let's say.
Not to be confused withoverconsumption of any food
where you get where you haveobesity and that's linked to
cancer.
That's a whole differentdiscussion.
So, I mean, this data that camefrom this buried report could
have informed some more clearguidance, I suppose.
Right.
(16:08):
Instead, we still have thisconfusion, this gap, whatever
you want to call it.
So, what do you want, what doyou do with this information?
You're like, all right, Philip,that's all interesting.
This is not a news podcast,this is not a political podcast,
great.
What do we do?
All right, first, understandwhat a standard drink is.
I think that's helpful becausea lot of you are underestimating
your consumption, just like wedo with food, especially when
(16:28):
we're not tracking.
A standard drink isn't thatbig, guys.
A standard drink is five ouncesof wine, which is like that
very small glass of wine thatyou're a little bit upset that
they poured you in thisrestaurant.
You're like, come on, you'recharging me 12 bucks for that.
12 ounces of beer.
Okay, again, who gets 12 ouncesof beer?
That's a can of beer.
That's not like a pint.
Now, granted, some restaurantshave those very thick glasses
(16:49):
that are like 14 ounces, theycall it a pint, you know what I
mean.
Or one and a half ounces ofspirits, right?
Any hard liquor.
Anything you pour at home isgonna be way more than that.
Come on, admit it.
Admit it.
Second, I want you to thinkabout frequency over quantity.
Not not always, but often.
I want you to think about that.
Because seven drinks in onenight is different
(17:13):
physiologically than one drinkper night for seven nights, even
at the same weekly total.
And you're gonna say, like,which one is worse?
You know what?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I would say the seven drinks inone night is probably worse
because it probably highlights adifferent issue unless you do
it like once every three yearsbecause you go to some party,
you know.
But I'm not sure that's thecase with a lot of people,
(17:34):
right?
The one night, the one drinkper night continuously, that
might be a habit, a habit thatyou can mold over time, like I
did.
I used to drink wine everynight, and then I switched to
just beer on the weekend or wineon the weekend, then I switch
to like one a weekend, then Iswitch to non-alcoholic, and I
hardly ever drink now, right?
And again, I'm not holdingmyself up as some paragon of
this stuff.
This has taken me years to evenget to that point.
(17:55):
And I still will occasionallyhave a drink.
So that's the second thing isthink about frequency over
quantity.
Just look at your patterns.
The third is think aboutcumulative exposure because
cancer risk is about lifetimeexposure to all the different
things that cause cancer, right?
More years plus higher averageconsumption is going to equal
greater risk.
So even if you are having sevendrinks in one night, but you do
(18:16):
it every five years, my guessis your risk is minuscule close
to zero from that.
I don't know if drinking awhole bunch of drinks in one
night and that's the only timeyou ever did it is the same as
like smoking, you know, a packof cigarettes one day and it's
the only time you did that.
I'm not really sure.
Because I definitely have heardthe idea that even one
(18:36):
cigarette that you've eversmoked that can mutate your DNA
and cause cancer.
I don't know.
Don't quote me on that.
Um, fourth is that risk ismultifactorial.
Remember, alcohol is just onething.
But look, you control what youcan control.
So control the things that youfeel have the biggest impact on
your outcome and your results,your body composition, your
hormones, your longevity, yourhealth.
(18:58):
Okay.
Fifth, if you're strengthtraining, alcohol has additional
downsides.
We've talked about this conceptbefore.
I did an episode about thefourth macro and how it affects
fat loss and muscle.
It impairs so many things thatit really is a big negative in
the world we inhabit here onwits and weights.
Whether you're talking proteinsynthesis, sleep, it's you know,
(19:20):
the empty calories basicallythat you get from it, your
performance, your fats, visceralfat storage, belly fat.
Anybody concerned about bellyfat shouldn't be drinking too
much alcohol, right?
So if you care about thosethings, think about what you can
control and why you're doingit.
Because from a physique andhealth standpoint, less is
always better all the way tozero.
Zero is going to be the best inthis case.
And I won't say that about alot of things.
(19:42):
I'm never gonna say you have tohave zero processed foods.
You can actually have a decentamount of ultra-processed foods
in your diet and have optimalhealth and live a long life.
You can't have a certain amountof alcohol on your diet and
hope to have an optimal life.
That that there's a differencebecause one's one's a toxin,
one's a poison that's foreign toyour body.
And that's alcohol, by the way.
In case I wasn't clear aboutthat.
All right.
So I'm not saying never to havea drink.
(20:03):
I'm saying know what you'redoing to your body when you do,
and drink less than you think ismoderate because we're all
lying to ourselves about whatmoderate is.
Let's be honest.
There's a quote I saw in mynotes, I think it was from the
IARC, that said, risks startfrom the first drop.
Okay, risks start from thefirst drop.
Not the full risk occurs on thefirst drop, but that there is
(20:25):
this dose response cumulativeeffect where there is some risk
once you start to drink at somelevel.
So if you drink daily, couldyou shift to a few times a week?
If a few times a week, couldyou shift to just special
occasions?
If you're doing just specialoccasions, could you have one
instead of three?
And so on and so forth.
Every reduction is going toreduce your exposure to cancer.
(20:46):
Every alcohol-free day is a dayyour body isn't dealing with
damage to your DNA.
And you do not owe anyone anexplanation for not drinking, by
the way, right?
The social pressure aroundalcohol is truly bizarre.
It is truly odd when you stepback and think about it.
We've normalized regularconsumption of what's
essentially a carcinogen.
(21:06):
Okay.
So if I didn't get my pointacross by now, I'm not sure I
ever will.
And at the same time, I'msaying the dose matters, the
accumulation matters, thecontext of everything else
you're doing matters.
It all matters, guys.
Think about the nuance.
So here's what ties thistogether your body is constantly
making repairs, right?
It's repairing itself.
(21:27):
When you lift, you create,let's say, micro damage that
gets rebuilt stronger, so youget stronger, bigger, bigger
muscles.
Your liver is a greatdetoxifier.
It's processing nutrients, it'sfiltering all the toxins that
come through, including, yes,alcohol.
Your immune system is gonnaeliminate abnormal cells as best
as it can, includingprecancerous cells.
(21:48):
So your body's doing wonderfulthings to constantly clean
itself up and avoid this, butthey also require energy and
recovery to do that.
And alcohol goes against that,right?
It's gonna force your body toprioritize detoxification.
It is literally poison.
And your liver and your immunesystem, everything else has to
say, eh, we need to get rid ofthis first before we do anything
(22:09):
else.
That diverts resources fromprotein synthesis, from sleep
quality, from you know, yourinflammation is gonna go up and
damage and DNA damage is goingto accumulate.
Again, accumulate over time,just like with smoking, right?
Accumulates over time.
The more you do it, the longeryou do it, the more frequently
you do it, the worse it is.
So if you're training hard, ifyou're eating enough protein, if
(22:30):
you're managing your sleep andstress, if you're being
consistent, and then you'reregularly introducing a
substance that counteracts allthat hard work while increasing
disease risk, it's workingagainst yourself.
That is that is a factualstatement.
That is it.
It's a factual statement.
You still have a choice, butit's a factual statement.
And so this buried stuff buriedburied, that's how I used to
(22:51):
say it.
This the this buried study isimportant because it just
highlights that we need to be incharge of our own lives and the
information we receive and seekout.
And we have to be careful whatwe believe, but also understand
there's information that we maybelieve that isn't even
available to us, right?
(23:11):
So it gets complicated, right?
You don't need that study tomake informed decisions.
There's plenty of evidence.
And every single one of youlistening has more control over
this than almost any otherhealth factor, to be honest.
Like it's it's quote unquoteeasy from that perspective.
You can't control yourgenetics, you can't control your
environmental exposures ingeneral, right?
In general, without bigchanges, but you can control
(23:34):
whether you drink, how much, howoften you drink, along with the
other things you'recontrolling, like your training
and how much protein you eat, etcetera.
And that's really, reallypowerful.
So go ahead and use that power.
I want you to use that power.
All right.
I that I think that's all Iwant to say.
Just remember, you have theagency, you decide what the
trade-off, what trade-offs areworth it.
I'm not gonna tell you whattrade-offs to make.
(23:55):
I just want to get to you to beinformed.
And information is power, asthey say.
All right.
So if this episode gave you aninterestingly different
perspective, maybe a littledifferent than most of my
episodes, to be honest, but ittaught you something about
alcohol and health.
All I ask is you text it to afriend.
Obviously, don't text it tosomeone who's gonna be combative
(24:15):
about this topic, but maybesomeone has said, like, hey,
have you heard about the issueswith alcohol, or I'm trying to
reduce my drinking, or you know,I'm trying to get healthier.
Text it to a friend.
Text it to somebody you lovewho is curious about this topic,
and that's it.
That's all I ask of you.
I'd be grateful.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits, lifting those
weights, and remember thatmaking informed decisions about
(24:36):
what you put in your body istotally up to you, and that is
powerful.
This is Philip Pape, and you'vebeen listening to Wits and
Weights.
I'll talk to you next time.
Did you know that back in 2022, the US government
commissioned a study on alcoholand cancer?
The study was finished, andthen someone decided, eh, maybe
we don't want to release that.
Meanwhile, the Surgeon Generalis calling for cancer warning
labels on bottles of alcohol,and many Americans, many people
in general, have no idea alcoholis even linked to cancer.
(00:20):
So, what exactly is in thatburied report?
And what does the evidence wedo have say about your cancer
risk when it comes to alcohol?
Let's find out.
And today is gonna be aninteresting one because we're
(00:51):
talking about alcohol, but froma different perspective.
Now, I'm not here to tell youto never have a beer or a glass
of wine.
I have one myself on rareoccasions, but what I am here to
do is give you a full,unfiltered picture of what the
evidence shows so you can maketruly authentically informed
decisions about your health.
And when a government, in thiscase the US government,
(01:14):
commissions a scientific studywith your tax dollars, whatever
your opinion is on that, andthen they complete the study and
then they refuse to release thefindings from a frankly
perfectly well done study, thatis a bit concerning.
It's also an issue withtransparency, especially when
you went through this wholeprocess and then you buried the
(01:36):
information.
And the information is actuallypretty powerful when it comes
to the stuff that we care abouton this podcast.
And I hope you know nobodymight now.
I'm trying, I try not to bepreachy.
I just want to be honest about,you know, when information's
out there and there aredifferent actors, different
players, whether it's uh aninfluencer on social media or
government institution or anindividual that are hiding
(01:58):
something or not telling thefull story, that we can bring
out what the reality is andreally focus on that, not so
much on attacking all of thesesources.
That's not what I do.
I don't do the hot takes andthe call-outs.
It's more of, hey, what do youneed to know?
So here I'm just gonna jumpinto it today because it's a
this pretty cool topic, to behonest.
It's it's scary though.
Um, here are the facts that arebased on some different
(02:19):
investigative reports that I wasable to get on podcasts, on
news, on different sources.
And this is obviously the firstsource of potential issue in
that what can you trust todaywhen it comes to news?
But I I kind of pieced ittogether, and it looks like back
uh three years ago, 2022, theHHS, HHS, the Health and Human
(02:39):
Services in the US, commissionedthe alcohol intake and health
study.
Okay, the alcohol intake andhealth study.
And you're obviously free tolook all of this up online, make
your best decision and judgmentabout this information.
And the goal of the study wasto gather the latest evidence on
alcohol and health so that theycould update the federal
dietary guidelines.
(03:00):
So this is taxpayer-fundedresearch, and most of this
research, and in this case, itwas conducted by independent
academic groups.
Okay.
So assuming we trust, you know,who did the study, we're not
going to get into that.
The study was done, it wascompleted, it was finalized,
ready for pop publication, andthen crickets.
And I'm not even, many of usdon't even know about this.
(03:21):
Um honestly, I didn't learnabout it until this year.
That's why I'm doing thisepisode.
So just in the last few months,different reports found that
despite the report beingcompleted, the federal officials
didn't release it, probably dueto, you guessed it, politics,
industry pressure, whatever,whatever the motives are, the
research was paid for, which itkind of pisses me off, right?
(03:42):
Because these are my taxdollars, they're spending on
this stuff, and again, whetheryou agree or not, and then
someone's like, hey, we did thestudy, it was a good study, but
we're not gonna release the datafor ulterior reasons.
So if we go back to January of2025, the Surgeon General Vivek
Murphy issued a public advisorycalling for cancer warning
labels on all alcohol.
And he cited evidence linkingalcohol to seven cancer types.
(04:06):
And I think he all evenmentioned that most Americans
don't even know that alcoholcauses cancer.
And it's not something that wetalk about too often, although
the few guests that I've had onto discuss alcohol have
absolutely discussed thelong-term links and correlations
between alcohol and cancer.
And at the time, if you go backand look at the data, what
happened?
Well, the stock market foralcohol stocks took a tank, you
(04:28):
know, took a drop, and there wassome pushback by industry.
And then the study itself thatwas buried, people are like,
hey, did you know this was outthere?
Maybe this is relevant.
What maybe we should see whatit actually says.
And then you go to mid-2025, sothis is a few months later,
there's some reports in the newsthat show the federal, the
(04:50):
drafts of the federal guidancewere being watered down.
So you have this internationalconsensus starting to tighten
around the risks of alcohol andcancer.
And then the guidance here inthe US for the federal guide
guidelines starts going theopposite direction, dropping all
this language about strongerlimits.
And then in October, soliterally, I think when this
(05:11):
episode comes out, actually, ifyeah, October 2025, there was
another piece of evidence thatreaffirmed alcohol is a major
preventable cause of cancer withno amount, no amount of alcohol
being entirely risk-free.
I think that was the IARC.
So you've got the strongerwarnings on one hand, you've got
our surgeon general in the USeven kind of agreeing with that.
(05:33):
Then you have this funded studybeing kept from public view.
So that's kind of thebackground.
Whatever you make of it, I hopeI didn't, I hope I gave it a pr
fairly objective treatment ofjust telling you all the sides
of what's going on.
And so what if we just ignoredall that and said, hey, what
does the evidence say alreadyabout alcohol and cancer?
What does the existing researchsay?
(05:54):
The National Cancer Institutedoes have a public fact sheet.
You can look it up, and it saysclearly that alcohol
consumption is a risk factor forseveral cancers.
And it has the strongestevidence for seven in
particular (06:06):
breast cancer in women, colorectal cancer,
esophageal, liver, laryngeal,oral cavity cancer, and
pharyngeal cancer.
Of course, you can hear severalmouth cancers in there, right?
So you've got colon, you've gotesophagus, esophagus, liver,
various parts of the mouth andthroat, breast cancer in women.
And there's nothing mysteriousabout this, right?
(06:28):
We know how alcohol works inthe body.
It gets broken down, getsbroken down into acetyldehyde,
which, and I never pronouncethat right.
That's the toxin.
And what that toxin does, oneof the things that toxin does is
damages your DNA.
Like many foreign substancesthat damage DNA, just like when
you smoke, anybody who smokes,you're basically constantly
damaging and mutating your DNA.
That's why it leads to cancer.
(06:48):
And the other thing thatconsumption of alcohol does is
it limits nutrient absorption.
We know that it turns off allprocessing of all the other
macros while your body ismetabolizing the alcohol.
And that could have an impactagainst cancer protection
mechanisms in the body, likefolate.
Okay, so now you're notabsorbing certain nutrients, at
least for a time, especially ifyou're a frequent drinker.
(07:10):
But you don't even have to bethat frequent of a drinker.
We're gonna get to that.
It also affects your hormones,it increases estrogen and other
hormones that are tied to breastcancer and acts as a solvent,
which helps carcinogenspenetrate your cell membrane.
So it's just a lot ofinteresting mechanisms.
And of course, as always, thedose response relationship is
(07:30):
important.
It's relevant because the moreyou consume, the higher your
risk.
What's important to know thoughis even very light drinking
shows an elevated risk forcertain cancers versus no
drinking.
So it's kind of like that bigstep up.
It's kind of like you go fromyour baseline, you have even one
drink, and you get a step up,another drink, another step up.
(07:51):
And so we're trying to figureout that point at which we
should really be concerned,especially if we care about our
health and longevity.
Now, in this, I think it's inthe same fact sheet, or I don't
know where I got it, but I havenotes from the NCI that says
that some cancers, like femalebreast cancer, for those, the
risk increases even at moderate,quote unquote, or light quote
unquote levels.
(08:12):
So one drink per day increasesbreast cancer risk, and two
drinks per day roughly doublescertain cancer risk.
And this is compared tonon-drinkers, of course.
The WHO Europe 2023, again, youguys can judge these
institutions however you want.
I'm just sharing theinformation.
They said, quote, when it comesto alcohol consumption, there's
(08:33):
no safe amount that does notaffect health.
And, you know, a lot of peoplesay, hey, this is one of the
world's leading public healthorganizations.
Whether you agree with it ornot, it's it's a pretty strong
statement, right?
And it's out of Europe, wherethey actually have a lot of
alcohol consumption.
So that's interesting too, forwhat it's worth.
The IARC classifies alcohol asa group one carcinogen, which is
(08:56):
the same category as tobaccoand asbestos.
And it means that there'senough evidence that it does
cause cancer in humans.
So I would at least want toplay it a little bit safe here
and say, okay, there's a linkbetween alcohol and cancer to
some extent.
There is.
And if we have information viarecently funded studies that
further strengthen that evidenceand that gets buried, you have
(09:20):
to question why.
And maybe you don't care aboutwhy.
Maybe you just care that thefact that it was buried and we
want to know the information.
What is the information?
And I'm gonna just take a quickbreak here because we're gonna
get into the politics of publichealth in a bit.
We're gonna talk about some ofthe nuances and then what this
means for you practically.
We have a lot of interestinginformation outside the podcast,
(09:41):
and much of it is free,including these free guides.
If you go to wits and waste.comslash free, I was going through
our guides and I realized wehave one called Eating Out, the
Eating Out Guide.
And it's one of the most commonquestions I get is like, what
do I do when I go out and I'mpresented with alcohol and
appetizers and salads and I'mgoing out with friends, they're
having pizza, all that stuff.
So go to wits and waste.comslash free, free or click the
link in the show notes for myeating out guide.
(10:02):
I think it's a good complimentto since we're talking about
alcohol today and you probablytuned in to learn about alcohol,
it's a good way to make smartchoices and handle social
drinking situations and stayaligned with your goals and
still enjoy life, right?
And and that that's back,that's bringing us back to the
practical side of this.
So witsandwaits.com slash freeor click the link in the show
notes.
All right, that was just aquick tangent because now we get
(10:24):
back into the serious stuff.
Why was this study buried?
If you look at the US alcoholindustry, it's massive, right?
Tens of billions in annualrevenue, probably big lobbying
power in Washington, like manyindustries.
And I'm sure they don't wantcancel cancel warning labels on
their products because they'veseen what's happened to the
cigarette industry since thatoccurred.
(10:44):
And that's because these labelstend to work, right?
When you put warnings onproducts, people consume fewer
of them.
They start talking about them adifferent way.
We know smoking droppeddramatically after the warning
labels and the PR campaigns, thepublic education campaigns, to
the point where I've seen in myown lifetime, I was born in
1980, you know, smoking sectionsin restaurants and lots of
(11:07):
people smoking everywhere, toit's like stigma.
It's a stigma now that you knowyou're ostracized if you smoke.
For again, for better or worse,whatever, you know, freedom,
choice, blah, blah, blah.
Not even getting into any ofthat.
I'm just sharing what I've seenhappen.
And so the alcohol industry,alcohol is a very interesting
thing because we we glamorizeit, right?
And again, I consume alcoholvery rarely these days compared
(11:28):
to what I used to because Iunderstand its health impacts
and I don't, I want to take careof my health.
But there, there's been a lotof messaging over the decades,
like red wine is good for yourheart.
You guys have heard that one.
You've heard the talk aboutresveratrol in red wine.
And all of those have beendebunked.
Like there is zero positive toalcohol in any respect
whatsoever.
(11:49):
Zero, zero.
So if you're still hearing someof those messages, or alcohol
is fine in moderation, like thatit's healthy in moderation,
absolutely zero.
No, that is not true.
There's zero positive when itcomes to alcohol.
I just want to put that outthere.
Okay.
That's different from sayingyou can't ever enjoy, I
shouldn't use the word enjoy,but imbibe or consume something
(12:12):
that you want to consume forsome reason that's different.
Okay.
And you think of terms likeresponsible drinking and
moderation.
Again, that is interestinglanguage that twists what you
think about them.
Where you're like, okay, thisis, I get social benefits.
You know, you look at beercommercials, Corona, whatever,
where they're partying on thebeach, right?
(12:32):
We we all know the thing.
And certain things getglamorized as well, even in
other areas, like cigars.
I am surprised.
A lot of my friends who arelistening are probably gonna be
called out on this that you'vegot guys in the fitness industry
who smoke cigars and thinkthat's okay.
I'll say not okay.
It's perfectly okay from afreedom perspective and choice
perspective, but it still hassome cancer risk, just like
cigarette smoking.
(12:52):
It's just a fact.
And they may know this and theymay choose to do it anyway, and
that's fine too.
So we got to look at data andalso understand marketing.
And then when we throw politicsinto the mix, now we have
science and politics bashingheads, which is always uh an
interesting partnership.
Because again, the SurgeonGeneral actually called for
warning labels, which means itgot to a level where they were
(13:13):
possibly going to do that,right?
And he doesn't even control thelabeling.
Congress does, right?
And that, and of course, theindustry knows that, so of
course, they they just have toprevent Congress from doing
that.
And I think they've beensuccessful, right?
It looks like they've beensuccessful.
So that's kind of the politicsbehind it.
Again, for better or worse,what you believe, whatever side
of the aisle you're on, etcetera.
So I want to I want to steelman the other side because I do
(13:37):
want to give enough nuance and Iguess fairness if that's if
that word even applies here.
I'm not sure.
Not all cancer associationswith alcohol.
So not all links between cancerand alcohol are equally strong
across all consumption levels.
Remember, I mentioned breastcancer before.
I mentioned that specificallybecause they get separated out
as far as their impact.
(13:57):
A there was a NationalAcademy's report that basically
said, look, some have a muchmore cautious or conservative
link based on what we think wesee in the evidence.
And that there's a lot of mixedevidence as well, which is to
be expected in the scientificcommunity.
If you listen to my episodewith Dr.
(14:18):
Eric Helms, we go into greatdepth on falsification and on
empiricism and all of that.
What we do know is the linkbetween what's called moderate
consumption and colon cancer iswell established.
And that that concerns me assomeone with a history and who
you know is male because thatthat tends to affect more men,
(14:39):
right?
Just like breast cancer affectsmore women.
For other cancer types, therelative risk increase at low
levels of alcohol is small, it'sstill non-zero, but it's
smaller than, say, colon canceror the breast cancer.
Now, the way that we talk aboutthese risks is important too
because it's very confusing,right?
If one drink per day increasesbreast cancer risk, what does
(15:03):
that mean in absolute terms?
What does that mean?
If you look at the baselinelifetime risk for US women for
breast cancer, it's 13%.
And one drink per day mightincrease that to 14 to 15%.
Now, is that a big deal?
Statistically, it is.
Individually, you might saythat it's not, but you can only
weigh these risks if you knowabout them.
(15:25):
That's kind of the point.
That's why I'm actually makingthis episode.
Right now, less than half ofAmericans actually know that
alcohol causes any type ofcancer at all.
And I think that's a big gap inawareness.
And I'll be honest, I reallywasn't clear on that till much,
till very recently, especiallywhen I got into the nutrition
world, finally started to belike, okay, we need to pay
attention to this stuff.
You know, we need to payattention to this because the
(15:48):
link is much stronger than, say,the link between eating
processed foods and cancer,let's say.
Not to be confused withoverconsumption of any food
where you get where you haveobesity and that's linked to
cancer.
That's a whole differentdiscussion.
So, I mean, this data that camefrom this buried report could
have informed some more clearguidance, I suppose.
Right.
(16:08):
Instead, we still have thisconfusion, this gap, whatever
you want to call it.
So, what do you want, what doyou do with this information?
You're like, all right, Philip,that's all interesting.
This is not a news podcast,this is not a political podcast,
great.
What do we do?
All right, first, understandwhat a standard drink is.
I think that's helpful becausea lot of you are underestimating
your consumption, just like wedo with food, especially when
(16:28):
we're not tracking.
A standard drink isn't thatbig, guys.
A standard drink is five ouncesof wine, which is like that
very small glass of wine thatyou're a little bit upset that
they poured you in thisrestaurant.
You're like, come on, you'recharging me 12 bucks for that.
12 ounces of beer.
Okay, again, who gets 12 ouncesof beer?
That's a can of beer.
That's not like a pint.
Now, granted, some restaurantshave those very thick glasses
(16:49):
that are like 14 ounces, theycall it a pint, you know what I
mean.
Or one and a half ounces ofspirits, right?
Any hard liquor.
Anything you pour at home isgonna be way more than that.
Come on, admit it.
Admit it.
Second, I want you to thinkabout frequency over quantity.
Not not always, but often.
I want you to think about that.
Because seven drinks in onenight is different
(17:13):
physiologically than one drinkper night for seven nights, even
at the same weekly total.
And you're gonna say, like,which one is worse?
You know what?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I would say the seven drinks inone night is probably worse
because it probably highlights adifferent issue unless you do
it like once every three yearsbecause you go to some party,
you know.
But I'm not sure that's thecase with a lot of people,
(17:34):
right?
The one night, the one drinkper night continuously, that
might be a habit, a habit thatyou can mold over time, like I
did.
I used to drink wine everynight, and then I switched to
just beer on the weekend or wineon the weekend, then I switch
to like one a weekend, then Iswitch to non-alcoholic, and I
hardly ever drink now, right?
And again, I'm not holdingmyself up as some paragon of
this stuff.
This has taken me years to evenget to that point.
(17:55):
And I still will occasionallyhave a drink.
So that's the second thing isthink about frequency over
quantity.
Just look at your patterns.
The third is think aboutcumulative exposure because
cancer risk is about lifetimeexposure to all the different
things that cause cancer, right?
More years plus higher averageconsumption is going to equal
greater risk.
So even if you are having sevendrinks in one night, but you do
(18:16):
it every five years, my guessis your risk is minuscule close
to zero from that.
I don't know if drinking awhole bunch of drinks in one
night and that's the only timeyou ever did it is the same as
like smoking, you know, a packof cigarettes one day and it's
the only time you did that.
I'm not really sure.
Because I definitely have heardthe idea that even one
(18:36):
cigarette that you've eversmoked that can mutate your DNA
and cause cancer.
I don't know.
Don't quote me on that.
Um, fourth is that risk ismultifactorial.
Remember, alcohol is just onething.
But look, you control what youcan control.
So control the things that youfeel have the biggest impact on
your outcome and your results,your body composition, your
hormones, your longevity, yourhealth.
(18:58):
Okay.
Fifth, if you're strengthtraining, alcohol has additional
downsides.
We've talked about this conceptbefore.
I did an episode about thefourth macro and how it affects
fat loss and muscle.
It impairs so many things thatit really is a big negative in
the world we inhabit here onwits and weights.
Whether you're talking proteinsynthesis, sleep, it's you know,
(19:20):
the empty calories basicallythat you get from it, your
performance, your fats, visceralfat storage, belly fat.
Anybody concerned about bellyfat shouldn't be drinking too
much alcohol, right?
So if you care about thosethings, think about what you can
control and why you're doingit.
Because from a physique andhealth standpoint, less is
always better all the way tozero.
Zero is going to be the best inthis case.
And I won't say that about alot of things.
(19:42):
I'm never gonna say you have tohave zero processed foods.
You can actually have a decentamount of ultra-processed foods
in your diet and have optimalhealth and live a long life.
You can't have a certain amountof alcohol on your diet and
hope to have an optimal life.
That that there's a differencebecause one's one's a toxin,
one's a poison that's foreign toyour body.
And that's alcohol, by the way.
In case I wasn't clear aboutthat.
All right.
So I'm not saying never to havea drink.
(20:03):
I'm saying know what you'redoing to your body when you do,
and drink less than you think ismoderate because we're all
lying to ourselves about whatmoderate is.
Let's be honest.
There's a quote I saw in mynotes, I think it was from the
IARC, that said, risks startfrom the first drop.
Okay, risks start from thefirst drop.
Not the full risk occurs on thefirst drop, but that there is
(20:25):
this dose response cumulativeeffect where there is some risk
once you start to drink at somelevel.
So if you drink daily, couldyou shift to a few times a week?
If a few times a week, couldyou shift to just special
occasions?
If you're doing just specialoccasions, could you have one
instead of three?
And so on and so forth.
Every reduction is going toreduce your exposure to cancer.
(20:46):
Every alcohol-free day is a dayyour body isn't dealing with
damage to your DNA.
And you do not owe anyone anexplanation for not drinking, by
the way, right?
The social pressure aroundalcohol is truly bizarre.
It is truly odd when you stepback and think about it.
We've normalized regularconsumption of what's
essentially a carcinogen.
(21:06):
Okay.
So if I didn't get my pointacross by now, I'm not sure I
ever will.
And at the same time, I'msaying the dose matters, the
accumulation matters, thecontext of everything else
you're doing matters.
It all matters, guys.
Think about the nuance.
So here's what ties thistogether your body is constantly
making repairs, right?
It's repairing itself.
(21:27):
When you lift, you create,let's say, micro damage that
gets rebuilt stronger, so youget stronger, bigger, bigger
muscles.
Your liver is a greatdetoxifier.
It's processing nutrients, it'sfiltering all the toxins that
come through, including, yes,alcohol.
Your immune system is gonnaeliminate abnormal cells as best
as it can, includingprecancerous cells.
(21:48):
So your body's doing wonderfulthings to constantly clean
itself up and avoid this, butthey also require energy and
recovery to do that.
And alcohol goes against that,right?
It's gonna force your body toprioritize detoxification.
It is literally poison.
And your liver and your immunesystem, everything else has to
say, eh, we need to get rid ofthis first before we do anything
(22:09):
else.
That diverts resources fromprotein synthesis, from sleep
quality, from you know, yourinflammation is gonna go up and
damage and DNA damage is goingto accumulate.
Again, accumulate over time,just like with smoking, right?
Accumulates over time.
The more you do it, the longeryou do it, the more frequently
you do it, the worse it is.
So if you're training hard, ifyou're eating enough protein, if
(22:30):
you're managing your sleep andstress, if you're being
consistent, and then you'reregularly introducing a
substance that counteracts allthat hard work while increasing
disease risk, it's workingagainst yourself.
That is that is a factualstatement.
That is it.
It's a factual statement.
You still have a choice, butit's a factual statement.
And so this buried stuff buriedburied, that's how I used to
(22:51):
say it.
This the this buried study isimportant because it just
highlights that we need to be incharge of our own lives and the
information we receive and seekout.
And we have to be careful whatwe believe, but also understand
there's information that we maybelieve that isn't even
available to us, right?
(23:11):
So it gets complicated, right?
You don't need that study tomake informed decisions.
There's plenty of evidence.
And every single one of youlistening has more control over
this than almost any otherhealth factor, to be honest.
Like it's it's quote unquoteeasy from that perspective.
You can't control yourgenetics, you can't control your
environmental exposures ingeneral, right?
In general, without bigchanges, but you can control
(23:34):
whether you drink, how much, howoften you drink, along with the
other things you'recontrolling, like your training
and how much protein you eat, etcetera.
And that's really, reallypowerful.
So go ahead and use that power.
I want you to use that power.
All right.
I that I think that's all Iwant to say.
Just remember, you have theagency, you decide what the
trade-off, what trade-offs areworth it.
I'm not gonna tell you whattrade-offs to make.
(23:55):
I just want to get to you to beinformed.
And information is power, asthey say.
All right.
So if this episode gave you aninterestingly different
perspective, maybe a littledifferent than most of my
episodes, to be honest, but ittaught you something about
alcohol and health.
All I ask is you text it to afriend.
Obviously, don't text it tosomeone who's gonna be combative
(24:15):
about this topic, but maybesomeone has said, like, hey,
have you heard about the issueswith alcohol, or I'm trying to
reduce my drinking, or you know,I'm trying to get healthier.
Text it to a friend.
Text it to somebody you lovewho is curious about this topic,
and that's it.
That's all I ask of you.
I'd be grateful.
Until next time, keep usingyour wits, lifting those
weights, and remember thatmaking informed decisions about
(24:36):
what you put in your body istotally up to you, and that is
powerful.
This is Philip Pape, and you'vebeen listening to Wits and
Weights.
I'll talk to you next time.
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