April 2, 2025 • 33 mins
Get the other part of this conversation on Sarah's podcast "Don't Call Me Skinny" to hear Philip discussing the data/systems side of emotional eating
--
Ever find yourself demolishing a pint of ice cream after a stressful day even though you weren't physically hungry?
Your problem isn't lack of willpower – it's invisible emotional triggers hijacking your eating decisions without your conscious awareness.
Today, Sarah Krieger of the "Don't Call Me Skinny" podcast reveals the psychological side of emotional eating while sharing practical tips to build a healthier relationship with food.
This is one part of a special two-part collaboration. Don't miss the companion episode on Sarah's podcast where Philip covers the data-driven systems approach to conquering emotional eating!
Main Takeaways:
- Emotional eating isn't about willpower but about hidden psychological triggers
- Childhood experiences often shape our emotional relationship with food
- The language we use about food reveals our deeper relationship with eating
- Creating awareness through pausing before eating can interrupt autopilot behaviors
- Sitting with uncomfortable emotions rather than eating to suppress them is key
Timestamps:
0:02 - Understanding emotional eating and triggers
7:24 - The first step to take
10:19 - Language and reframing around food
14:14 - "Clean" vs. flexible eating
17:26 - The "pause" method
22:11 - The power of tracking
24:49 - Addressing deeper emotional issues
32:08 - Data/systems-based approach
Get the other part of this conversation on Sarah's podcast "Don't Call Me Skinny" to hear Philip discussing the data/systems side of emotional eating
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Philip Pape (00:02):
If you've ever found yourself demolishing a
pint of ice cream after astressful day, even though you
weren't physically hungry, yourproblem isn't lack of willpower.
It's invisible emotionaltriggers hijacking your eating
decisions without your consciousawareness.
Today, we're exposing thesehidden psychological forces and
why they're sabotaging yournutrition goals, despite your
(00:24):
best intentions.
You'll discover theneurological reasons your brain
connects food with emotionalrelief, how to decode your
unique trigger patterns and somestrategies to rewire these
responses for good.
If you're tired of thatfrustrating cycle of emotional
eating followed by guilt andshame, today's conversation will
give you the psychologicaltoolkit you need to finally
(00:47):
break free.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Pape, andtoday I'm excited to bring you a
(01:07):
special collaboration withSarah Krieger, owner of
Consistency Over PerfectionFitness and host of the Don't
Call Me Skinny podcast.
We're giving you twice the funtoday, because we are dropping
two conversations on our twoshows, each tackling emotional
eating from different angles.
Today, sarah is diving into the, I'll say, very, very powerful,
(01:29):
very critical psychologicalside of emotional eating.
And then make sure and followher podcast Again Don't Call Me
Skinny, look it up.
I'll include the link in theshow notes and you're going to
hear me discuss the data-drivensystem side of conquering
emotional eating, and I'll againinclude the link in the show
notes, as both episodes shouldhave dropped today.
(01:49):
All right, so a little bit aboutSarah.
After losing 80 pounds, keepingit off for four years without
fad diets, she now helps womenthrough her, empowered by the
Basics method, a really solidmethod, totally aligned with us
in this show, so you definitelywant to check that out and she
focuses on a lot of mindset workand breaking free from diet
(02:10):
culture.
As a former educator turnedcoach, she's developed some
powerful strategies, some tipsto address the emotional side of
eating, and today we're goingto look at some of those hidden
triggers that drive emotionaleating and then give you some
tips to build a healthierrelationship with food.
Sarah, thanks for doing thiswith me and welcome to the show.
Sarah Krieger (02:28):
Thank you, I'm so excited to be here.
It's been a minute and I'mexcited to tackle this one.
Philip Pape (02:32):
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
So, emotional eating it's a bighot topic and I don't know.
I think one of the best placesto start for folks is just in
like the practical problems thatyou see day to day when people
come to you and they're like I'mhungry, I crave things, I
overeat, I love the Ben andJerry's ice cream, um, and we
can get into topics like um,emotional hunger, you know
(02:56):
physical versus emotional hungersignals and all that.
But just let's take a take itfrom the beginning.
You know what?
What is, what is the issue?
Sarah Krieger (03:03):
Yeah.
So I think there's it's a cult,like a culmination.
I think that, um, you know mystory really is what drove me to
be a coach and help women.
And even in the very beginningI was very like here's your
macros, here are your, you know,here's your training program.
Like why are you not turning ina check-in?
Like what's wrong with you?
(03:23):
I say that in quotation marksLike I thought you wanted to
lose weight and it wasn't reallyuntil I started coaching other
people where I realized likethis is a much bigger issue or
problem.
The emotional side of this,tackling the feelings, tackling
okay, well, why am I having allof these things?
Why can I not stop at one Oreo?
Why do I have to eat the wholebag?
(03:43):
Why do I wake up at 2am withsour cream and you know, sour
cream and potato chips all overmy chest and I blacked out and I
don't know what happened, likehow does this?
Like how did I get here?
And so I feel like thisemotional, this emotional side I
like to refer as like fixingthe food relationship and just
(04:04):
having a better relationship Ithink all comes down to an
awareness piece.
I think a lot of people justaren't aware, they're not
educated around food, educatedaround emotions, how to
emotionally regulate themselves,and I think that that's kind of
like the deep part of thiswhere it's this it can get ugly
(04:28):
and it can get really um, Idon't want to say it can get
very like self-judgy, likewhat's wrong with me?
Why can't I get fixed?
I there's, why can so and so dothis, but I can't seem.
Why can she have cake and noteat the whole cake?
But I can't do that right.
So then it turns very internaland I think that this is a big
piece that we are completelymissing the mark on.
Philip Pape (04:50):
Yeah, there's, and there's a lot of comparison.
Like you said, there's a lot offrustration.
I mean people, root cause,which would you agree that you
know everybody's different, Likesome people can process through
(05:10):
some mild emotional eating,potentially with just some
strategies, Others it's likelet's go crack open your
childhood trauma here.
Like what do you agree?
There's this maybe spectrumgoing on?
Sarah Krieger (05:21):
Oh, absolutely, I think that you know, especially
it depends.
I truly do feel like this stemsthat you know, especially it
depends.
I truly do feel like the stemsfrom you know your childhood.
I feel like not everybody hasalways had a weight issue.
A weight issue was always mystory.
Like I knew in kindergarten Iwas the big girl, I was bigger
than all the other girls.
Like that was my story.
That's what I knew.
Some women come into this.
(05:42):
Maybe you know postpartum that Isee that are like this hasn't
been an issue until you know myadult life.
I had never had this issuegrowing up and I really truly
feel like a lot of the womenthat come to me on the bigger, I
would say the more difficultend of that spectrum, where it's
that this is very deep rootedhiding in closets eating Doritos
(06:04):
you know the parents buying,you know food, but they weren't
allowed quote unquote, allowedto eat that food, those kinds of
things.
Or just growing up in a homewhere food was always that right
.
Like an Oreo is always going tobe an Oreo, it's never not
going to be an Oreo, it's nevergoing to trick you or anything.
So it's like, almost like it'screating that safe place with
(06:26):
the food.
It's like okay, no matter whatI do with this Oreo, it's going
to be an Oreo and it's going tobe delicious and it's going to
make me feel better in thismoment, and so that's what I'm
going to turn to.
So I definitely think there's aspectrum of women that I see
where it's just like hey, wehave to get really deep on, like
what's going on?
Versus like okay, this has beenan issue for this long.
Like here's some methods.
Let's try these first and thengo from there and see what
(06:48):
happens.
Philip Pape (06:49):
Yeah, you know, I've I've seen that, I've seen
that spectrum and it reallydepends on where the coach is
coming from.
That's why I like how we'rewe're covering this from
different angles today so peopleunderstand that you know
everyone's different.
Um, you mentioned awareness.
I really love that because wewant to define that.
I think today, to me, awarenesscould be to someone listening,
I'm tracking my food, or itcould be I'm identifying my
(07:12):
triggers, or it could be I'mjournaling my hunger.
What do you define as awareness?
Is it all those things, orwhere does it start?
Sarah Krieger (07:24):
all those things and every again.
I think one thing about, likecoaching and people, is
realizing.
Like everybody's in a differentplace, I've had people come to
me where they've already trackedall their macros before they
know exactly how to use a scale,and I have other people who are
like that is so I've trackedcoins, but I've never tracked
macros.
I don't know what I'm doinghere, so I think that it's all.
It's all.
This whole thing is veryindividualized, so sometimes
(07:45):
awareness is my clients justtaking photos in a food log.
Hey, let's start here.
Where are you at?
Oh, hey, let's just start with.
I call it the basic plate method.
So everything I do is about thebasics.
So just learning how to build abasic plate.
It is not.
This does not have to be youryou know five star gourmet
French meal.
This doesn't have to be this.
It can be literally just likelet's understand and define what
(08:07):
is the protein and make surewe're getting protein at every
single meal, right?
So I think that awareness canbe.
It can be that kind of tracking.
It can also be like why am Iwanting food right now?
Like what is it about foodright now?
Like I'm feeling stressed rightnow.
Am I actually hungry for foodor am I just wanting this?
Because this makes me feel goodin this moment and I think I
(08:29):
need it right?
That's also awareness.
So I think it just like meetingthe individual and the client
where they are, because no one,no like, no two people, no five
people, no 10 people that I'veever worked with ever start in
the same place, ever.
Philip Pape (08:44):
Yeah, and so as far as where you are, then I mean I
like your method and yourframework.
I love frameworks.
You know, you have the basicsand all that.
If we were to talk about aframework for the emotional
eating cycle or the chain ofevents, right, there's a trigger
potentially somewhere, there'scravings in there, there's
indulgences, there's guilt andshame, there's you even alert
(09:06):
alluded to feeling safe, likethat Oreo.
That consistent Oreo helps youfeel safe, which is a could be a
very powerful concept when youexplore it.
So what kind of framework doyou like if that makes sense, or
how can people reallyunderstand it, who are listening
to figure out where they are inthe cycle or how you would take
them through that?
Sarah Krieger (09:22):
Yeah, I think that you know, I I listened to a
lot of language.
I listened to the language thatpeople use.
So, um, if somebody were tocome to me, or if you use
language such as like, oh, Ican't eat this, it's bad, or
language like that, I can't eatthat, I'm on a diet, right To me
this is kind of like languageof somebody who has a poor
(09:44):
relationship with food.
They probably use food to copeor emotionally, um like make,
make them feel better, so cope,um those kinds of things right.
So, if you're using specificlanguage, that's where I'm going
to be like, okay, we need tostart by educating.
Like food is not moral, it'snot good or bad, we give it the
(10:05):
moral value based off of whatsociety has told us, based off
of what we think oh, I ate allthese Oreos.
And then the scale went up.
But we're not addressing theactual problem, which isn't the
Oreos.
Actually, the Oreos were thereto help.
I use Oreos because I loveOreos.
Hey, I don't disagree, dipped insome milk.
I know People yeah, people dogon them so much, but I
absolutely love them.
(10:26):
But it could like insert yourvice.
It could be pizza, french fries, it doesn't matter.
And so it's like understandinglike the Oreos aren't actually
the problem.
It's why we are going to theOreos, why we can't stop with
the Oreos.
So for somebody that's usinglanguage such as, again, this is
bad food or I don't eat that.
It's bad, you know it's.
(10:49):
I even just recently, I'm like,going through these
conversations that I've had withpeople like you know, even
language such as, like you know,trying to work off the food
that they've eaten in the gym oh, I need to burn all these
calories, right, that to me islanguage.
And I'm like, okay, you're inthis category, right.
But if we understand that, it'slike, okay, I, I know that I
can have hashtag balance, and Iuse that word very faringly or
(11:13):
very kind of yes, kind ofsarcastic Cause it's like
hashtag balance.
It's like, well, there's not.
I don't know what that reallyis for people.
But so if you're coming to mewith that kind of language where
it's like, well, I know, I canhave an Oreo, but my problem is
X, y Z.
Like I know that I can eat cakewith my kid on at a birthday
party, but that cake then leadsme into well, then I have cake,
(11:36):
and then I have this, and then Ihave that.
Ok, well, you might be in alittle bit of a different
category or a different place,right?
Or it's just like I know whatI'm supposed to do, I just don't
do it.
Right.
Again, language is likelanguage is everything.
Ok, but there's a reason, ok.
So if you know what you'resupposed to be doing and you
know that you need to be eatingfruits and vegetables, but it
just doesn't seem to happen, isthat actually an emotional issue
(11:59):
or is that like a capacityspace?
Like it's just I'm so busy Idon't know how to plan
appropriately.
Like, is it more of anemotional issue or is it more of
like a technical, almost issueversus that?
So it becomes a little bit.
It just kind of depends and Ilanguage for me is like huge
listening to what the client istelling me.
(12:19):
That's kind of how I decide,like, hmm, I think that we need
to start here first.
Philip Pape (12:23):
Yeah, I love that.
I don't know if that's aframework, but no, no, it is.
It's actually crystal clear.
I mean, I got at least twomajor takeaways here that I
think the listener can can juston their own, like a self audit
is is thinking about how theyspeak.
Um, you mentioned, you know,the moral judgment on food, or
even morally labeling yourselfin the context of food as really
(12:45):
powerful statements.
I would even kind of infer fromwhat you said really anything
that's that's negative.
Um, to generalize, it couldpossibly be a reframing
opportunity, even if it's thetruth.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, even if you're stating afact, but in a negative lens.
I'm a very positive optimismbias type person and what you're
(13:05):
suggesting is that, like ifyou're a coach working with
someone, you don't just jumpinto here's your macros, go
follow it.
It's like, talk to me, talk tome, what's happening, what are
you trying to accomplish here?
You know, hopefully you have agood intake process and then you
can say, okay, I'm hearing somethings you're saying and when
you check in with me, um, let's,let's try reframing it this way
.
I love that.
Um, where was I going to go withthe second thing you mentioned.
(13:27):
It's totally escaping me rightnow, but you know how that goes.
We'll come back to it.
I do It'll.
It'll hit you at a differentmoment.
It will, it's right.
Oh, I know what it was.
So what are your thoughts on?
Um?
So I've I've got a lot ofexperts that come on my show.
I know you talk to people onyours and occasionally I'll get
the person who's like.
I'm aligned 90, 95% with them.
But there's this piece aboutclean eating, or like judgment
(13:49):
of like the ultimate place toget to is no processed foods.
The ultimate place to get to islike you're clean.
And there's this little bit ofjudgment even for people who
obviously have gotten theirgoals they're fit, they're
lifting, they feel great, likeeverything's in check and, yes,
they have those Oreos, likethey've gotten to a healthy
mental state and they're eatingOreos.
(14:10):
What are your thoughts on thatin the industry?
Sarah Krieger (14:14):
Well, my personal thoughts are I don't believe in
clean eating unless you'reputting your food in a
dishwasher or scrubbing it likeI think that's what we reference
as clean eating.
Now I do believe in uh, how I,how I frame it is like, yes,
there are more nutritious foodsthan others, like that we can't
(14:35):
state that, like an apple isquote unquote worse than an Oreo
.
We know that's not true.
Right, you're getting nutrientsand all sorts of things and the
the amount of just fullnessthat you're going to feel from
an apple versus an Oreo, likethere's distinguishable
differences, but sometimes theOreo satisfies a need or a
(14:55):
desire that you want to have andit doesn't make it bad.
So, for me personally, I'm kindof under the guise of like the
majority of times, whatever thatmeans for you personally.
Yes, you should be eating wholefoods that are nutrient dense,
that make you feel good, thatdon't drag you down, that don't
make you groggy and tired andbloat and blah, blah, blah, that
don't drag you down, that don'tmake you groggy and tired and
(15:17):
bloat and blah, blah, blah, andeither super constipated or
pooping.
All of it Like, yes, like thatto me is optimal.
But also part of optimal isliving right, which also means
that maybe you do have.
You know, like, tonight I'mgoing to be super honest.
Right Tonight we're going outfor my brother-in-law's birthday
, okay, so am I going to have analcoholic drink?
(15:38):
Probably right.
Do I drink alcoholic drinksevery day of my life?
No, I'm not a person to tellsomebody not to do something
you're not allowed to have.
Don't eat this.
The goal is to get there ontheir own, like, if they choose,
then you know, I've had clientsthat drink, honestly, you know,
10 to 14 drinks in a week,maybe sometimes even more, and
(16:04):
I'm like, whoa, right, like,let's, let's talk about how this
impacts our.
Let's talk about how thisimpacts our um, um, our results
that we're trying to get Right,um, it's no different than a
client that comes to me, though,and has 700 calories of, you
know, peanut butter, m&ms, oryou know, chocolate, milk and
all this stuff and like, buttheir lunch was 200 calories,
but their snack side was 500,right, like, how can we like?
(16:27):
This isn't necessarily, you'renot bad for doing this, but how
can we do it a little bit moreso that it gets to where you
want to go?
Right, let's increase thosemeal sizes and let's decrease
what we have, because you're notgoing to want those snacks.
I'm a big believer in that partthe bigger the meal, the less
the snacks.
So for me it's like just tryingto get a client to get there on
(16:48):
their own.
So I'm not necessarily like ayou're not allowed kind of coach
.
Right, you can have M&Ms, youcan have Oreos, you can have an
alcoholic drink.
But like you also need to takeresponsibility and own how that
is going to impact and thenunderstand like, well, the scale
didn't go down this week.
You know, on average Imaintained or my sleep was kind
(17:11):
of trashy, or now I drink toomuch in my digestion.
You know I've sat on the toiletall day.
Like, okay, well, that's whathappens when we do those things.
And now we understand how thatimpacts something and how can we
change it a little bitdifferently for the next time.
Philip Pape (17:26):
Yeah, and that is back to your first comment about
awareness.
That's closing the loop.
Right, that is closing the loop.
People are walking throughtheir day in a state of chaos
and uncertainty, a lack ofclarity, shoveling food in their
mouth, not realizing whythey're doing it and also how it
interacts with how they feeland everything else.
Right, or you know, likedefinitely the zealots in the
(17:47):
certain diet spaces will saywell, I feel great on XYZ.
Well, have you tried the otheralternative, the more flexible
alternative, and linked it toyour performance, your feedback,
your digestion, et cetera?
Flexible alternative and linkedit to your performance, your
feedback, your digestion, etcetera.
Um, yeah, I just.
I asked that question because Ithink sometimes people put on a
pedestal elite athletes orphysique competitors or whoever
might have these somewhatextreme approaches and even
(18:08):
though it's kind of quoteunquote working and they started
through that process that we'retrying to take them through,
they end up at their own form ofan extreme.
That isn't necessarily where wewant to be.
So back to emotional eating.
Then you mentioned triggers.
You mentioned safety and thingslike that.
Is there something you'd likethe listener to know, to be
(18:29):
aware of the triggers or ordocumenting those Cause.
That is the awareness when itcomes to this, this piece.
Sarah Krieger (18:35):
Yeah, I mean, I think this is a process.
This is, I think, the firstthing that somebody has to
understand that this is notchanging tomorrow.
You didn't get here in a dayand those behaviors that you do
have I mean, we live onautopilot what 95% of our day.
So once we start forming thesehabits and these things are just
part of who we are, it's goingto take an actual like stopping
(18:59):
point, a wall.
You're going to have to go.
Okay, I've hit this wall.
I have to.
Okay, stop, pause.
I have to stop for a second,right, and that takes a minute
to get to.
Sometimes it's easier, you know,depending on the client, it can
be easier for some than others.
But what I like to do is firststart just, you know, saying out
loud, or just having the clientthey could write it down, right
(19:21):
.
What we want to do is startbringing awareness without
judgment.
I think that that's the biggerkey to this.
It's not about like, well, Ithought about having this thing,
but then I went and had itanyway.
Okay, that doesn't necessarilymean it's a bad thing, because
we were at least at least ableto be aware before we did the
thing right.
So then it's a different movefrom that element.
(19:44):
Right, but the very first thingI have people do is just take a
breath, take a pause for asecond, the moment this thought
comes into your brain, or evenmaybe you don't even realize the
thought.
But now you're reaching intothe refrigerator, or now you're
reaching into your pantry andyou're going oh, wait a minute.
Or you're opening it up andyou're like, oh, wait a minute.
Right.
It's like making just a pauseand going okay, I'm doing this
(20:04):
thing right now.
And just like saying it okay,I'm doing this thing, okay, I'm
getting, I'm going to eat thisthing.
Right.
It's not about like being aware.
Like I said, the majority of usare not aware.
We, we drive places.
We don't even did I just stopat that stop sign, like I don't
(20:29):
even know how I got, like we'rejust and that's scary because
we're driving and I've had thosemoments Like I'm like how did I
get here?
I have no idea where.
Or you're on autopilot and youalways go one way or one
direction and then you need togo a different way, but you turn
the way that you always go.
It's a very similar concept, soFor me it's like having them
pause.
They could document in ajournal they could document in
(20:50):
the food log.
I actually had somebody dogroup coaching and every time
she ate she put down why she waseating, like okay, breakfast,
this is what I had, this is whyI'm eating this.
That was her choice, that wassomething that she wanted,
because she can go back then andsee like why am I eating what I
am and what do I need to do tokind of move away from it?
(21:10):
Eating what I am and what do Ineed to do to kind of move away
from it.
So I think just even just likebreaking up that brain pattern
of like just doing it versuspausing before we do it.
So like pause method, that'svery common.
I always talk about the applemethod, like if you want the
Oreo, eat the apple first and ifyou're still hungry, then go
ahead and have that.
So I think there's like lots ofdifferent ways to to document
(21:33):
what we're doing.
I talk a lot about food pairingfor people.
So like again, like having theapple with the Oreo, like this
is cool, let's do it together.
That's another way to become alittle bit more aware.
But I really just feel like inthe very beginning, like for
somebody that's reallystruggling with, and again, this
is language that they use.
Typically.
I don't eat a lot during theday.
(21:54):
I'm barely eating anything, thethe.
The reality is we're we'reeating a lot more than what we
think we are.
Philip Pape (22:00):
We're just not aware that we're eating the what
we are, and so stopping thatbrain pattern and probably not
satisfied with what we're eating, so it feels like we're not
eating right.
Sarah Krieger (22:11):
Correct.
Oh'm still hungry.
I couldn't eat that much.
Oh, probably.
Philip Pape (22:15):
So, speaking of pause, I want to pause there
because people should sit onthis and I resonate really hard
with this.
I was thinking of an examplethrough Toastmasters
Toastmasters, a public speakingorganization 10 years ago.
When I started doing that, Ihad lots of ums and ahs.
And I had lots of ums and ahsand I'll tell you, podcasting
works that out of you too, but Ihad lots of ums and ahs and one
of the roles in a Toastmastersmeeting is to pay attention to
those.
And another thing you'reencouraged to do is video
(22:37):
yourself, and as soon as you dothat, like immediately, you
cringe, right.
We have an emotional reactionto ourselves.
It'd be kind of like if you hada camera in your kitchen.
As I was thinking, as you saidthis, for your midnight snacks,
you had a camera just watchingyou the whole time and you
watched back your securityfootage of yourself and you're
like oh, interesting, like hereare my behaviors.
So the point is it does work,and I think a lot of people are
(22:58):
not even taking that first step.
It's not that hard.
I mean, sarah, what you'retelling us is not that hard.
It's got to be done.
And then, once you do it, whoknows what you discover it's
crazy and we're going to talkabout data and systems and like,
really it's all aligned, likethat's what you're saying is the
same thing.
Um, we may just come at it fromslightly different starting
points.
And you also mentioned how, likethe apple and the Oreo or heck
(23:21):
you know, controlling yourenvironment and having the bowl
of apples you keep saying thatkeeps seeing the apples.
I really want an apple rightnow.
I had an orange for lunch.
It was so good, so I'm good onmy fruit for a little while, but
anyway, um, I'm just, I'm justkind of rambling because I think
it's really awesome that peopleunderstand they can pause, they
can document in some way,whatever way works for them,
they can recognize, and thatleads to behavior change.
Measuring leads to behaviorchange.
(23:43):
Um, what about?
What about the deeper stuff?
What about when you have issuesin the past, past experiences
that shape that emotionalrelationship, traumas?
We kind of touched on that, butsome people are thinking, geez,
it's deeper than what you'resaying.
Sarah Krieger (23:57):
Yeah, and I think that that's what a lot of
people you know.
The admittance of that, I think, is very difficult.
I come from a home where wewere Italian.
We scooped carbs with carbs,you know.
We put that pasta right up onthat bread and go to town.
Philip Pape (24:14):
That's great.
Sarah Krieger (24:15):
Yeah, you know where.
We had big family dinners.
So there's a lot of differentways that food can be embedded
in the emotions, right?
Also, being Italian, we eatfood for every single motion
that exists You're happy, you'reexcited, you're sad, you're
depressed, it doesn't evenmatter.
There's a reason always to beeating and it's always tied to
something that either makes youfeel really good or really bad,
(24:38):
and then then boom, insert.
That's the solve your problem.
I've grandma said it would soclearly you know.
So there's that piece of it,but I do think that.
So, speaking from my own likeI'll just speak from my own
personal opinion, or take onthis experience, which is I
always was made fun of,specifically by siblings,
(25:00):
specifically by, I think that'sthat's about it.
And when I, in my childhood itwas, it was a lot of my siblings
as I got older, I always hadthis weight issue, as I said,
and then I got married and inthis marriage it was a lot of
cheating that took place andunfortunately, I used as why I
(25:20):
had always used was food to copewith that element of me.
So even when I have momentsthat I'm removed from this
marriage by almost 10 years, 12years at this point, I think
actually, so I'm removed by thismarriage.
But anytime I have a thoughtfrom the past or like this
(25:40):
feeling, felt a lot like thatfeeling, did I go back and it
kind of like brings thisvisceral emotional body response
right.
Hands might get clammy, heartmight start to race a little bit
, like those kinds of things,and the first thing that I wanna
do, or used to do, was I wouldused to just go fuel it.
(26:02):
I would just go oh, this willmake me feel better.
The ice I love ice cream.
Ice cream's gonna make me feelbetter.
Taco Bell is gonna make me feelbetter.
Pizza is gonna make me feelbetter.
Eating out of this bag of chipsis going to make me feel better
.
And again, by the time I didn'trealize it, you know I'm 250
pounds and what just happened tome, you know what happened.
And so understanding,unfortunately, I don't feel like
(26:25):
that.
We allow ourselves to just sitwith the emotions.
We try to fix ourselves, we tryto cover them, we try to move
on from them as fast as possible, because they're awful and they
feel terrible and that's thereality.
So it's a matter of how do Isit in this and just let myself
(26:45):
feel this and go.
This is uncomfortable, but it'sokay, and nothing is nothing is
going to fix this.
Nothing's going to change me.
Eating the pizza doesn'tactually fix the problem.
It doesn't change the feeling.
It's not going to make my heartrate slow down this exact
moment right, but how do I justsit here and let this be for a
(27:06):
minute and that?
We don't like that.
We want to try to fix ourselvesas soon as we can, so we just
go for the thing that we thinkis going to make us go.
Everything's better until thenext time.
And it happens again and again,and again.
Philip Pape (27:19):
So how do people do that?
Because that I totally agree.
Like there's so many paradigmsof of watching the emotions
float by and the river of themindfulness practices of maybe
the pattern interrupt youalready mentioned, which is
maybe another tool to you'reabout to eat, you stop.
Maybe you think about theemotions that you're recognizing
, like.
What are your thoughts on that?
Sarah Krieger (27:40):
I wish I had an answer that it wasn't.
It depends, but unfortunatelyin this, what we do, it always
is going to depend on the person.
I'll say this the majority ofwomen that I have worked with
have deep emotional childhoodtrauma and I am not a trauma
specialist, right, I'm not hereto help fix people.
(28:03):
What I am here to do is helpguide them into understanding
why these habits are happening.
Understanding why these habitsare happening and, on the flip
side, if they need to go, getthat additional support outside
of me so that they can workthrough those things like I
don't work through things withpeople like that on that level,
right, but we talk about whatthese habits are, why we might
be feeling this way, those kindsof things.
(28:25):
I'm really, really particularabout staying in my scope of
practice, but what I will say isthis having a coach, having a
person, one that can relate,that can understand, that can
just say you make sense, this isokay and there's a reason why
it's happening.
Sometimes, give that clientenough space to go just breathe
(28:47):
for a second, because all oftheir life my life included
until I figured this out, Ididn't know that that was okay.
I didn't realize, like, what Iwas doing was actually keeping
me from doing who knows what Idon't even know, right, I mean
we could go to the deep end andgo to drugs or alcohol or who
knows and people do that, right,they do those same things for
(29:08):
coping.
So I feel like we don't knowenough that it's okay, like
these things are keeping me safe, right.
I always talk about the previousversion of myself, like I
wouldn't be who I am todaywithout her fucking up and
fighting like hell for me, right, like I would not be, I would
not be here doing the thing.
So what she did for me the lastyou know, 32 years prior of my
(29:32):
life, she kept me going, shekept my furnace burning, she
kept, she kept me alive, shekept me all those things so that
I could figure this out and dowhat I needed to do today.
So I wish I had a better answerof, like how somebody would go
about this.
But I think that if you'restruggling with this, you need
to find a coach, a therapist,somebody that can help ground
(29:53):
you a little bit and help getyou to see, like this is, this
is okay, like you are not broken, you're not, you don't need to
be fixed, but you just need togive yourself some space to be
and that's okay.
Philip Pape (30:06):
And I hope, if they're listening to the show
and hearing your soothing voice,sarah, that they will
understand that this is thefirst step, like just hearing
that it's possible that you canget there, that there's support
and that also your identitycontinues to evolve.
Your identity, your, sarah, aswell as the person listening's
identity, continue and mine aswell forever, which is great.
It's part of the humancondition.
(30:26):
That then depends on what levelof support they're going to
need.
But if you haven't resolved theissue, it sounds like someone
should at least start with maybesome of the tools here.
I'm all for experimentation.
Try it out today, try it outLogging awareness, things like
that, and then you know, reachout, keep listening to our shows
and then reach out for the kindof help you need.
Is there anything aboutemotional eating?
(30:48):
We didn't cover?
It's a huge topic, it's amassive topic, I know, but just
to kind of keep it concise today, is there one specific thing
you wanted to mention that?
we haven't yet.
Sarah Krieger (30:57):
I mean that we haven't.
I think you kind of touched onsomething right there that we
haven't touched on and I'll justbriefly talk about it.
It's be open to try things.
Be open to try things and theymight not work for you.
And I think, again, people wantspecifics.
Right, we can.
Here's your macros, here's yourtraining program.
Okay, here's the exact amountof time that you need to go work
out and here's all the butreally it's that's not what you
(31:21):
actually need, and you mightfind that this particular method
might not work for you.
The pause method might not workfor you.
Okay, so what we got to findout what will, and be open to
that.
Like, hey, that wasn't for meand that's okay.
Like this thing oh man, shetalked about this thing on here
and that she's crazy.
Okay, but there is somethingout there, it's not the only
(31:42):
thing, yep.
Correct.
That can potentially work foryou.
So I think, being open, likeeverybody just wants the answer,
just tell me what to do andI'll do it.
Everybody just wants the answer.
Just tell me what to do, andI'll do it.
Man, if it was that simple, wewould be, everybody would just
write the book about it and youwould just serve everything
Exactly and everybody would belooking like a hot snack, right,
like that's the reality.
So, and that's not the case,sadly.
(32:04):
So we, we, we got a lot of workto do in our, in ourselves.
Philip Pape (32:08):
Love it, and the fact that you can do it and it
will happen, and you justhaven't found the right approach
for you, is a great positive.
That's the optimistic attitudethat I absolutely love.
All right, so I'm going to tellthe listener here that, if you
enjoyed this, this is just onehalf of a greater conversation
about emotional eating onSarah's podcast.
Don't call me skinny, right,don't call me skinny, it's got.
(32:28):
It's got a longer name behindit.
Uh, that you'll see when yousearch it up.
Don't call me skinny.
We are going to talk about dataand systems and all that, but a
lot of it's going to be alignedwith what we're talking about
here.
So, stop now hit follow, causethis is almost the end of this
episode.
Anyway, go in your podcast app,find it, use the link in the
show notes and you'll catch metalking on her show, and then
you could also, uh, enter theworld of Sarah, where you can
(32:51):
hear about all her otherframeworks and her other
episodes, which are awesome.
Um, she's got a little bitspiciness to her and a really
great you know mindset about allof this that I love.
So, sarah, thank you for comingon my show.
Thank you so much you.
If you've ever found yourself demolishing a
pint of ice cream after astressful day, even though you
weren't physically hungry, yourproblem isn't lack of willpower.
It's invisible emotionaltriggers hijacking your eating
decisions without your consciousawareness.
Today, we're exposing thesehidden psychological forces and
why they're sabotaging yournutrition goals, despite your
(00:24):
best intentions.
You'll discover theneurological reasons your brain
connects food with emotionalrelief, how to decode your
unique trigger patterns and somestrategies to rewire these
responses for good.
If you're tired of thatfrustrating cycle of emotional
eating followed by guilt andshame, today's conversation will
give you the psychologicaltoolkit you need to finally
(00:47):
break free.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Pape, andtoday I'm excited to bring you a
(01:07):
special collaboration withSarah Krieger, owner of
Consistency Over PerfectionFitness and host of the Don't
Call Me Skinny podcast.
We're giving you twice the funtoday, because we are dropping
two conversations on our twoshows, each tackling emotional
eating from different angles.
Today, sarah is diving into the, I'll say, very, very powerful,
(01:29):
very critical psychologicalside of emotional eating.
And then make sure and followher podcast Again Don't Call Me
Skinny, look it up.
I'll include the link in theshow notes and you're going to
hear me discuss the data-drivensystem side of conquering
emotional eating, and I'll againinclude the link in the show
notes, as both episodes shouldhave dropped today.
(01:49):
All right, so a little bit aboutSarah.
After losing 80 pounds, keepingit off for four years without
fad diets, she now helps womenthrough her, empowered by the
Basics method, a really solidmethod, totally aligned with us
in this show, so you definitelywant to check that out and she
focuses on a lot of mindset workand breaking free from diet
(02:10):
culture.
As a former educator turnedcoach, she's developed some
powerful strategies, some tipsto address the emotional side of
eating, and today we're goingto look at some of those hidden
triggers that drive emotionaleating and then give you some
tips to build a healthierrelationship with food.
Sarah, thanks for doing thiswith me and welcome to the show.
Sarah Krieger (02:28):
Thank you, I'm so excited to be here.
It's been a minute and I'mexcited to tackle this one.
Philip Pape (02:32):
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
So, emotional eating it's a bighot topic and I don't know.
I think one of the best placesto start for folks is just in
like the practical problems thatyou see day to day when people
come to you and they're like I'mhungry, I crave things, I
overeat, I love the Ben andJerry's ice cream, um, and we
can get into topics like um,emotional hunger, you know
(02:56):
physical versus emotional hungersignals and all that.
But just let's take a take itfrom the beginning.
You know what?
What is, what is the issue?
Sarah Krieger (03:03):
Yeah.
So I think there's it's a cult,like a culmination.
I think that, um, you know mystory really is what drove me to
be a coach and help women.
And even in the very beginningI was very like here's your
macros, here are your, you know,here's your training program.
Like why are you not turning ina check-in?
Like what's wrong with you?
(03:23):
I say that in quotation marksLike I thought you wanted to
lose weight and it wasn't reallyuntil I started coaching other
people where I realized likethis is a much bigger issue or
problem.
The emotional side of this,tackling the feelings, tackling
okay, well, why am I having allof these things?
Why can I not stop at one Oreo?
Why do I have to eat the wholebag?
(03:43):
Why do I wake up at 2am withsour cream and you know, sour
cream and potato chips all overmy chest and I blacked out and I
don't know what happened, likehow does this?
Like how did I get here?
And so I feel like thisemotional, this emotional side I
like to refer as like fixingthe food relationship and just
(04:04):
having a better relationship Ithink all comes down to an
awareness piece.
I think a lot of people justaren't aware, they're not
educated around food, educatedaround emotions, how to
emotionally regulate themselves,and I think that that's kind of
like the deep part of thiswhere it's this it can get ugly
(04:28):
and it can get really um, Idon't want to say it can get
very like self-judgy, likewhat's wrong with me?
Why can't I get fixed?
I there's, why can so and so dothis, but I can't seem.
Why can she have cake and noteat the whole cake?
But I can't do that right.
So then it turns very internaland I think that this is a big
piece that we are completelymissing the mark on.
Philip Pape (04:50):
Yeah, there's, and there's a lot of comparison.
Like you said, there's a lot offrustration.
I mean people, root cause,which would you agree that you
know everybody's different, Likesome people can process through
(05:10):
some mild emotional eating,potentially with just some
strategies, Others it's likelet's go crack open your
childhood trauma here.
Like what do you agree?
There's this maybe spectrumgoing on?
Sarah Krieger (05:21):
Oh, absolutely, I think that you know, especially
it depends.
I truly do feel like this stemsthat you know, especially it
depends.
I truly do feel like the stemsfrom you know your childhood.
I feel like not everybody hasalways had a weight issue.
A weight issue was always mystory.
Like I knew in kindergarten Iwas the big girl, I was bigger
than all the other girls.
Like that was my story.
That's what I knew.
Some women come into this.
(05:42):
Maybe you know postpartum that Isee that are like this hasn't
been an issue until you know myadult life.
I had never had this issuegrowing up and I really truly
feel like a lot of the womenthat come to me on the bigger, I
would say the more difficultend of that spectrum, where it's
that this is very deep rootedhiding in closets eating Doritos
(06:04):
you know the parents buying,you know food, but they weren't
allowed quote unquote, allowedto eat that food, those kinds of
things.
Or just growing up in a homewhere food was always that right
.
Like an Oreo is always going tobe an Oreo, it's never not
going to be an Oreo, it's nevergoing to trick you or anything.
So it's like, almost like it'screating that safe place with
(06:26):
the food.
It's like okay, no matter whatI do with this Oreo, it's going
to be an Oreo and it's going tobe delicious and it's going to
make me feel better in thismoment, and so that's what I'm
going to turn to.
So I definitely think there's aspectrum of women that I see
where it's just like hey, wehave to get really deep on, like
what's going on?
Versus like okay, this has beenan issue for this long.
Like here's some methods.
Let's try these first and thengo from there and see what
(06:48):
happens.
Philip Pape (06:49):
Yeah, you know, I've I've seen that, I've seen
that spectrum and it reallydepends on where the coach is
coming from.
That's why I like how we'rewe're covering this from
different angles today so peopleunderstand that you know
everyone's different.
Um, you mentioned awareness.
I really love that because wewant to define that.
I think today, to me, awarenesscould be to someone listening,
I'm tracking my food, or itcould be I'm identifying my
(07:12):
triggers, or it could be I'mjournaling my hunger.
What do you define as awareness?
Is it all those things, orwhere does it start?
Sarah Krieger (07:24):
all those things and every again.
I think one thing about, likecoaching and people, is
realizing.
Like everybody's in a differentplace, I've had people come to
me where they've already trackedall their macros before they
know exactly how to use a scale,and I have other people who are
like that is so I've trackedcoins, but I've never tracked
macros.
I don't know what I'm doinghere, so I think that it's all.
It's all.
This whole thing is veryindividualized, so sometimes
(07:45):
awareness is my clients justtaking photos in a food log.
Hey, let's start here.
Where are you at?
Oh, hey, let's just start with.
I call it the basic plate method.
So everything I do is about thebasics.
So just learning how to build abasic plate.
It is not.
This does not have to be youryou know five star gourmet
French meal.
This doesn't have to be this.
It can be literally just likelet's understand and define what
(08:07):
is the protein and make surewe're getting protein at every
single meal, right?
So I think that awareness canbe.
It can be that kind of tracking.
It can also be like why am Iwanting food right now?
Like what is it about foodright now?
Like I'm feeling stressed rightnow.
Am I actually hungry for foodor am I just wanting this?
Because this makes me feel goodin this moment and I think I
(08:29):
need it right?
That's also awareness.
So I think it just like meetingthe individual and the client
where they are, because no one,no like, no two people, no five
people, no 10 people that I'veever worked with ever start in
the same place, ever.
Philip Pape (08:44):
Yeah, and so as far as where you are, then I mean I
like your method and yourframework.
I love frameworks.
You know, you have the basicsand all that.
If we were to talk about aframework for the emotional
eating cycle or the chain ofevents, right, there's a trigger
potentially somewhere, there'scravings in there, there's
indulgences, there's guilt andshame, there's you even alert
(09:06):
alluded to feeling safe, likethat Oreo.
That consistent Oreo helps youfeel safe, which is a could be a
very powerful concept when youexplore it.
So what kind of framework doyou like if that makes sense, or
how can people reallyunderstand it, who are listening
to figure out where they are inthe cycle or how you would take
them through that?
Sarah Krieger (09:22):
Yeah, I think that you know, I I listened to a
lot of language.
I listened to the language thatpeople use.
So, um, if somebody were tocome to me, or if you use
language such as like, oh, Ican't eat this, it's bad, or
language like that, I can't eatthat, I'm on a diet, right To me
this is kind of like languageof somebody who has a poor
(09:44):
relationship with food.
They probably use food to copeor emotionally, um like make,
make them feel better, so cope,um those kinds of things right.
So, if you're using specificlanguage, that's where I'm going
to be like, okay, we need tostart by educating.
Like food is not moral, it'snot good or bad, we give it the
(10:05):
moral value based off of whatsociety has told us, based off
of what we think oh, I ate allthese Oreos.
And then the scale went up.
But we're not addressing theactual problem, which isn't the
Oreos.
Actually, the Oreos were thereto help.
I use Oreos because I loveOreos.
Hey, I don't disagree, dipped insome milk.
I know People yeah, people dogon them so much, but I
absolutely love them.
(10:26):
But it could like insert yourvice.
It could be pizza, french fries, it doesn't matter.
And so it's like understandinglike the Oreos aren't actually
the problem.
It's why we are going to theOreos, why we can't stop with
the Oreos.
So for somebody that's usinglanguage such as, again, this is
bad food or I don't eat that.
It's bad, you know it's.
(10:49):
I even just recently, I'm like,going through these
conversations that I've had withpeople like you know, even
language such as, like you know,trying to work off the food
that they've eaten in the gym oh, I need to burn all these
calories, right, that to me islanguage.
And I'm like, okay, you're inthis category, right.
But if we understand that, it'slike, okay, I, I know that I
can have hashtag balance, and Iuse that word very faringly or
(11:13):
very kind of yes, kind ofsarcastic Cause it's like
hashtag balance.
It's like, well, there's not.
I don't know what that reallyis for people.
But so if you're coming to mewith that kind of language where
it's like, well, I know, I canhave an Oreo, but my problem is
X, y Z.
Like I know that I can eat cakewith my kid on at a birthday
party, but that cake then leadsme into well, then I have cake,
(11:36):
and then I have this, and then Ihave that.
Ok, well, you might be in alittle bit of a different
category or a different place,right?
Or it's just like I know whatI'm supposed to do, I just don't
do it.
Right.
Again, language is likelanguage is everything.
Ok, but there's a reason, ok.
So if you know what you'resupposed to be doing and you
know that you need to be eatingfruits and vegetables, but it
just doesn't seem to happen, isthat actually an emotional issue
(11:59):
or is that like a capacityspace?
Like it's just I'm so busy Idon't know how to plan
appropriately.
Like, is it more of anemotional issue or is it more of
like a technical, almost issueversus that?
So it becomes a little bit.
It just kind of depends and Ilanguage for me is like huge
listening to what the client istelling me.
(12:19):
That's kind of how I decide,like, hmm, I think that we need
to start here first.
Philip Pape (12:23):
Yeah, I love that.
I don't know if that's aframework, but no, no, it is.
It's actually crystal clear.
I mean, I got at least twomajor takeaways here that I
think the listener can can juston their own, like a self audit
is is thinking about how theyspeak.
Um, you mentioned, you know,the moral judgment on food, or
even morally labeling yourselfin the context of food as really
(12:45):
powerful statements.
I would even kind of infer fromwhat you said really anything
that's that's negative.
Um, to generalize, it couldpossibly be a reframing
opportunity, even if it's thetruth.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, even if you're stating afact, but in a negative lens.
I'm a very positive optimismbias type person and what you're
(13:05):
suggesting is that, like ifyou're a coach working with
someone, you don't just jumpinto here's your macros, go
follow it.
It's like, talk to me, talk tome, what's happening, what are
you trying to accomplish here?
You know, hopefully you have agood intake process and then you
can say, okay, I'm hearing somethings you're saying and when
you check in with me, um, let's,let's try reframing it this way
.
I love that.
Um, where was I going to go withthe second thing you mentioned.
(13:27):
It's totally escaping me rightnow, but you know how that goes.
We'll come back to it.
I do It'll.
It'll hit you at a differentmoment.
It will, it's right.
Oh, I know what it was.
So what are your thoughts on?
Um?
So I've I've got a lot ofexperts that come on my show.
I know you talk to people onyours and occasionally I'll get
the person who's like.
I'm aligned 90, 95% with them.
But there's this piece aboutclean eating, or like judgment
(13:49):
of like the ultimate place toget to is no processed foods.
The ultimate place to get to islike you're clean.
And there's this little bit ofjudgment even for people who
obviously have gotten theirgoals they're fit, they're
lifting, they feel great, likeeverything's in check and, yes,
they have those Oreos, likethey've gotten to a healthy
mental state and they're eatingOreos.
(14:10):
What are your thoughts on thatin the industry?
Sarah Krieger (14:14):
Well, my personal thoughts are I don't believe in
clean eating unless you'reputting your food in a
dishwasher or scrubbing it likeI think that's what we reference
as clean eating.
Now I do believe in uh, how I,how I frame it is like, yes,
there are more nutritious foodsthan others, like that we can't
(14:35):
state that, like an apple isquote unquote worse than an Oreo
.
We know that's not true.
Right, you're getting nutrientsand all sorts of things and the
the amount of just fullnessthat you're going to feel from
an apple versus an Oreo, likethere's distinguishable
differences, but sometimes theOreo satisfies a need or a
(14:55):
desire that you want to have andit doesn't make it bad.
So, for me personally, I'm kindof under the guise of like the
majority of times, whatever thatmeans for you personally.
Yes, you should be eating wholefoods that are nutrient dense,
that make you feel good, thatdon't drag you down, that don't
make you groggy and tired andbloat and blah, blah, blah, that
don't drag you down, that don'tmake you groggy and tired and
(15:17):
bloat and blah, blah, blah, andeither super constipated or
pooping.
All of it Like, yes, like thatto me is optimal.
But also part of optimal isliving right, which also means
that maybe you do have.
You know, like, tonight I'mgoing to be super honest.
Right Tonight we're going outfor my brother-in-law's birthday
, okay, so am I going to have analcoholic drink?
(15:38):
Probably right.
Do I drink alcoholic drinksevery day of my life?
No, I'm not a person to tellsomebody not to do something
you're not allowed to have.
Don't eat this.
The goal is to get there ontheir own, like, if they choose,
then you know, I've had clientsthat drink, honestly, you know,
10 to 14 drinks in a week,maybe sometimes even more, and
(16:04):
I'm like, whoa, right, like,let's, let's talk about how this
impacts our.
Let's talk about how thisimpacts our um, um, our results
that we're trying to get Right,um, it's no different than a
client that comes to me, though,and has 700 calories of, you
know, peanut butter, m&ms, oryou know, chocolate, milk and
all this stuff and like, buttheir lunch was 200 calories,
but their snack side was 500,right, like, how can we like?
(16:27):
This isn't necessarily, you'renot bad for doing this, but how
can we do it a little bit moreso that it gets to where you
want to go?
Right, let's increase thosemeal sizes and let's decrease
what we have, because you're notgoing to want those snacks.
I'm a big believer in that partthe bigger the meal, the less
the snacks.
So for me it's like just tryingto get a client to get there on
(16:48):
their own.
So I'm not necessarily like ayou're not allowed kind of coach
.
Right, you can have M&Ms, youcan have Oreos, you can have an
alcoholic drink.
But like you also need to takeresponsibility and own how that
is going to impact and thenunderstand like, well, the scale
didn't go down this week.
You know, on average Imaintained or my sleep was kind
(17:11):
of trashy, or now I drink toomuch in my digestion.
You know I've sat on the toiletall day.
Like, okay, well, that's whathappens when we do those things.
And now we understand how thatimpacts something and how can we
change it a little bitdifferently for the next time.
Philip Pape (17:26):
Yeah, and that is back to your first comment about
awareness.
That's closing the loop.
Right, that is closing the loop.
People are walking throughtheir day in a state of chaos
and uncertainty, a lack ofclarity, shoveling food in their
mouth, not realizing whythey're doing it and also how it
interacts with how they feeland everything else.
Right, or you know, likedefinitely the zealots in the
(17:47):
certain diet spaces will saywell, I feel great on XYZ.
Well, have you tried the otheralternative, the more flexible
alternative, and linked it toyour performance, your feedback,
your digestion, et cetera?
Flexible alternative and linkedit to your performance, your
feedback, your digestion, etcetera.
Um, yeah, I just.
I asked that question because Ithink sometimes people put on a
pedestal elite athletes orphysique competitors or whoever
might have these somewhatextreme approaches and even
(18:08):
though it's kind of quoteunquote working and they started
through that process that we'retrying to take them through,
they end up at their own form ofan extreme.
That isn't necessarily where wewant to be.
So back to emotional eating.
Then you mentioned triggers.
You mentioned safety and thingslike that.
Is there something you'd likethe listener to know, to be
(18:29):
aware of the triggers or ordocumenting those Cause.
That is the awareness when itcomes to this, this piece.
Sarah Krieger (18:35):
Yeah, I mean, I think this is a process.
This is, I think, the firstthing that somebody has to
understand that this is notchanging tomorrow.
You didn't get here in a dayand those behaviors that you do
have I mean, we live onautopilot what 95% of our day.
So once we start forming thesehabits and these things are just
part of who we are, it's goingto take an actual like stopping
(18:59):
point, a wall.
You're going to have to go.
Okay, I've hit this wall.
I have to.
Okay, stop, pause.
I have to stop for a second,right, and that takes a minute
to get to.
Sometimes it's easier, you know,depending on the client, it can
be easier for some than others.
But what I like to do is firststart just, you know, saying out
loud, or just having the clientthey could write it down, right
(19:21):
.
What we want to do is startbringing awareness without
judgment.
I think that that's the biggerkey to this.
It's not about like, well, Ithought about having this thing,
but then I went and had itanyway.
Okay, that doesn't necessarilymean it's a bad thing, because
we were at least at least ableto be aware before we did the
thing right.
So then it's a different movefrom that element.
(19:44):
Right, but the very first thingI have people do is just take a
breath, take a pause for asecond, the moment this thought
comes into your brain, or evenmaybe you don't even realize the
thought.
But now you're reaching intothe refrigerator, or now you're
reaching into your pantry andyou're going oh, wait a minute.
Or you're opening it up andyou're like, oh, wait a minute.
Right.
It's like making just a pauseand going okay, I'm doing this
(20:04):
thing right now.
And just like saying it okay,I'm doing this thing, okay, I'm
getting, I'm going to eat thisthing.
Right.
It's not about like being aware.
Like I said, the majority of usare not aware.
We, we drive places.
We don't even did I just stopat that stop sign, like I don't
(20:29):
even know how I got, like we'rejust and that's scary because
we're driving and I've had thosemoments Like I'm like how did I
get here?
I have no idea where.
Or you're on autopilot and youalways go one way or one
direction and then you need togo a different way, but you turn
the way that you always go.
It's a very similar concept, soFor me it's like having them
pause.
They could document in ajournal they could document in
(20:50):
the food log.
I actually had somebody dogroup coaching and every time
she ate she put down why she waseating, like okay, breakfast,
this is what I had, this is whyI'm eating this.
That was her choice, that wassomething that she wanted,
because she can go back then andsee like why am I eating what I
am and what do I need to do tokind of move away from it?
(21:10):
Eating what I am and what do Ineed to do to kind of move away
from it.
So I think just even just likebreaking up that brain pattern
of like just doing it versuspausing before we do it.
So like pause method, that'svery common.
I always talk about the applemethod, like if you want the
Oreo, eat the apple first and ifyou're still hungry, then go
ahead and have that.
So I think there's like lots ofdifferent ways to to document
(21:33):
what we're doing.
I talk a lot about food pairingfor people.
So like again, like having theapple with the Oreo, like this
is cool, let's do it together.
That's another way to become alittle bit more aware.
But I really just feel like inthe very beginning, like for
somebody that's reallystruggling with, and again, this
is language that they use.
Typically.
I don't eat a lot during theday.
(21:54):
I'm barely eating anything, thethe.
The reality is we're we'reeating a lot more than what we
think we are.
Philip Pape (22:00):
We're just not aware that we're eating the what
we are, and so stopping thatbrain pattern and probably not
satisfied with what we're eating, so it feels like we're not
eating right.
Sarah Krieger (22:11):
Correct.
Oh'm still hungry.
I couldn't eat that much.
Oh, probably.
Philip Pape (22:15):
So, speaking of pause, I want to pause there
because people should sit onthis and I resonate really hard
with this.
I was thinking of an examplethrough Toastmasters
Toastmasters, a public speakingorganization 10 years ago.
When I started doing that, Ihad lots of ums and ahs.
And I had lots of ums and ahsand I'll tell you, podcasting
works that out of you too, but Ihad lots of ums and ahs and one
of the roles in a Toastmastersmeeting is to pay attention to
those.
And another thing you'reencouraged to do is video
(22:37):
yourself, and as soon as you dothat, like immediately, you
cringe, right.
We have an emotional reactionto ourselves.
It'd be kind of like if you hada camera in your kitchen.
As I was thinking, as you saidthis, for your midnight snacks,
you had a camera just watchingyou the whole time and you
watched back your securityfootage of yourself and you're
like oh, interesting, like hereare my behaviors.
So the point is it does work,and I think a lot of people are
(22:58):
not even taking that first step.
It's not that hard.
I mean, sarah, what you'retelling us is not that hard.
It's got to be done.
And then, once you do it, whoknows what you discover it's
crazy and we're going to talkabout data and systems and like,
really it's all aligned, likethat's what you're saying is the
same thing.
Um, we may just come at it fromslightly different starting
points.
And you also mentioned how, likethe apple and the Oreo or heck
(23:21):
you know, controlling yourenvironment and having the bowl
of apples you keep saying thatkeeps seeing the apples.
I really want an apple rightnow.
I had an orange for lunch.
It was so good, so I'm good onmy fruit for a little while, but
anyway, um, I'm just, I'm justkind of rambling because I think
it's really awesome that peopleunderstand they can pause, they
can document in some way,whatever way works for them,
they can recognize, and thatleads to behavior change.
Measuring leads to behaviorchange.
(23:43):
Um, what about?
What about the deeper stuff?
What about when you have issuesin the past, past experiences
that shape that emotionalrelationship, traumas?
We kind of touched on that, butsome people are thinking, geez,
it's deeper than what you'resaying.
Sarah Krieger (23:57):
Yeah, and I think that that's what a lot of
people you know.
The admittance of that, I think, is very difficult.
I come from a home where wewere Italian.
We scooped carbs with carbs,you know.
We put that pasta right up onthat bread and go to town.
Philip Pape (24:14):
That's great.
Sarah Krieger (24:15):
Yeah, you know where.
We had big family dinners.
So there's a lot of differentways that food can be embedded
in the emotions, right?
Also, being Italian, we eatfood for every single motion
that exists You're happy, you'reexcited, you're sad, you're
depressed, it doesn't evenmatter.
There's a reason always to beeating and it's always tied to
something that either makes youfeel really good or really bad,
(24:38):
and then then boom, insert.
That's the solve your problem.
I've grandma said it would soclearly you know.
So there's that piece of it,but I do think that.
So, speaking from my own likeI'll just speak from my own
personal opinion, or take onthis experience, which is I
always was made fun of,specifically by siblings,
(25:00):
specifically by, I think that'sthat's about it.
And when I, in my childhood itwas, it was a lot of my siblings
as I got older, I always hadthis weight issue, as I said,
and then I got married and inthis marriage it was a lot of
cheating that took place andunfortunately, I used as why I
(25:20):
had always used was food to copewith that element of me.
So even when I have momentsthat I'm removed from this
marriage by almost 10 years, 12years at this point, I think
actually, so I'm removed by thismarriage.
But anytime I have a thoughtfrom the past or like this
(25:40):
feeling, felt a lot like thatfeeling, did I go back and it
kind of like brings thisvisceral emotional body response
right.
Hands might get clammy, heartmight start to race a little bit
, like those kinds of things,and the first thing that I wanna
do, or used to do, was I wouldused to just go fuel it.
(26:02):
I would just go oh, this willmake me feel better.
The ice I love ice cream.
Ice cream's gonna make me feelbetter.
Taco Bell is gonna make me feelbetter.
Pizza is gonna make me feelbetter.
Eating out of this bag of chipsis going to make me feel better
.
And again, by the time I didn'trealize it, you know I'm 250
pounds and what just happened tome, you know what happened.
And so understanding,unfortunately, I don't feel like
(26:25):
that.
We allow ourselves to just sitwith the emotions.
We try to fix ourselves, we tryto cover them, we try to move
on from them as fast as possible, because they're awful and they
feel terrible and that's thereality.
So it's a matter of how do Isit in this and just let myself
(26:45):
feel this and go.
This is uncomfortable, but it'sokay, and nothing is nothing is
going to fix this.
Nothing's going to change me.
Eating the pizza doesn'tactually fix the problem.
It doesn't change the feeling.
It's not going to make my heartrate slow down this exact
moment right, but how do I justsit here and let this be for a
(27:06):
minute and that?
We don't like that.
We want to try to fix ourselvesas soon as we can, so we just
go for the thing that we thinkis going to make us go.
Everything's better until thenext time.
And it happens again and again,and again.
Philip Pape (27:19):
So how do people do that?
Because that I totally agree.
Like there's so many paradigmsof of watching the emotions
float by and the river of themindfulness practices of maybe
the pattern interrupt youalready mentioned, which is
maybe another tool to you'reabout to eat, you stop.
Maybe you think about theemotions that you're recognizing
, like.
What are your thoughts on that?
Sarah Krieger (27:40):
I wish I had an answer that it wasn't.
It depends, but unfortunatelyin this, what we do, it always
is going to depend on the person.
I'll say this the majority ofwomen that I have worked with
have deep emotional childhoodtrauma and I am not a trauma
specialist, right, I'm not hereto help fix people.
(28:03):
What I am here to do is helpguide them into understanding
why these habits are happening.
Understanding why these habitsare happening and, on the flip
side, if they need to go, getthat additional support outside
of me so that they can workthrough those things like I
don't work through things withpeople like that on that level,
right, but we talk about whatthese habits are, why we might
be feeling this way, those kindsof things.
(28:25):
I'm really, really particularabout staying in my scope of
practice, but what I will say isthis having a coach, having a
person, one that can relate,that can understand, that can
just say you make sense, this isokay and there's a reason why
it's happening.
Sometimes, give that clientenough space to go just breathe
(28:47):
for a second, because all oftheir life my life included
until I figured this out, Ididn't know that that was okay.
I didn't realize, like, what Iwas doing was actually keeping
me from doing who knows what Idon't even know, right, I mean
we could go to the deep end andgo to drugs or alcohol or who
knows and people do that, right,they do those same things for
(29:08):
coping.
So I feel like we don't knowenough that it's okay, like
these things are keeping me safe, right.
I always talk about the previousversion of myself, like I
wouldn't be who I am todaywithout her fucking up and
fighting like hell for me, right, like I would not be, I would
not be here doing the thing.
So what she did for me the lastyou know, 32 years prior of my
(29:32):
life, she kept me going, shekept my furnace burning, she
kept, she kept me alive, shekept me all those things so that
I could figure this out and dowhat I needed to do today.
So I wish I had a better answerof, like how somebody would go
about this.
But I think that if you'restruggling with this, you need
to find a coach, a therapist,somebody that can help ground
(29:53):
you a little bit and help getyou to see, like this is, this
is okay, like you are not broken, you're not, you don't need to
be fixed, but you just need togive yourself some space to be
and that's okay.
Philip Pape (30:06):
And I hope, if they're listening to the show
and hearing your soothing voice,sarah, that they will
understand that this is thefirst step, like just hearing
that it's possible that you canget there, that there's support
and that also your identitycontinues to evolve.
Your identity, your, sarah, aswell as the person listening's
identity, continue and mine aswell forever, which is great.
It's part of the humancondition.
(30:26):
That then depends on what levelof support they're going to
need.
But if you haven't resolved theissue, it sounds like someone
should at least start with maybesome of the tools here.
I'm all for experimentation.
Try it out today, try it outLogging awareness, things like
that, and then you know, reachout, keep listening to our shows
and then reach out for the kindof help you need.
Is there anything aboutemotional eating?
(30:48):
We didn't cover?
It's a huge topic, it's amassive topic, I know, but just
to kind of keep it concise today, is there one specific thing
you wanted to mention that?
we haven't yet.
Sarah Krieger (30:57):
I mean that we haven't.
I think you kind of touched onsomething right there that we
haven't touched on and I'll justbriefly talk about it.
It's be open to try things.
Be open to try things and theymight not work for you.
And I think, again, people wantspecifics.
Right, we can.
Here's your macros, here's yourtraining program.
Okay, here's the exact amountof time that you need to go work
out and here's all the butreally it's that's not what you
(31:21):
actually need, and you mightfind that this particular method
might not work for you.
The pause method might not workfor you.
Okay, so what we got to findout what will, and be open to
that.
Like, hey, that wasn't for meand that's okay.
Like this thing oh man, shetalked about this thing on here
and that she's crazy.
Okay, but there is somethingout there, it's not the only
(31:42):
thing, yep.
Correct.
That can potentially work foryou.
So I think, being open, likeeverybody just wants the answer,
just tell me what to do andI'll do it.
Everybody just wants the answer.
Just tell me what to do, andI'll do it.
Man, if it was that simple, wewould be, everybody would just
write the book about it and youwould just serve everything
Exactly and everybody would belooking like a hot snack, right,
like that's the reality.
So, and that's not the case,sadly.
(32:04):
So we, we, we got a lot of workto do in our, in ourselves.
Philip Pape (32:08):
Love it, and the fact that you can do it and it
will happen, and you justhaven't found the right approach
for you, is a great positive.
That's the optimistic attitudethat I absolutely love.
All right, so I'm going to tellthe listener here that, if you
enjoyed this, this is just onehalf of a greater conversation
about emotional eating onSarah's podcast.
Don't call me skinny, right,don't call me skinny, it's got.
(32:28):
It's got a longer name behindit.
Uh, that you'll see when yousearch it up.
Don't call me skinny.
We are going to talk about dataand systems and all that, but a
lot of it's going to be alignedwith what we're talking about
here.
So, stop now hit follow, causethis is almost the end of this
episode.
Anyway, go in your podcast app,find it, use the link in the
show notes and you'll catch metalking on her show, and then
you could also, uh, enter theworld of Sarah, where you can
(32:51):
hear about all her otherframeworks and her other
episodes, which are awesome.
Um, she's got a little bitspiciness to her and a really
great you know mindset about allof this that I love.
So, sarah, thank you for comingon my show.
Thank you so much you.
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