The Metabolic Storm of Menopause and HRT Timing for Fat Loss & Muscle (Karen Martel) | Ep 382 - Wits & Weights | Fat Loss, Nutrition, & Strength Training for Lifters

Episode Transcript
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Philip Pape (00:01):
If you're a woman approaching or experiencing
menopause, your doctor may havetold you to tough it out that
hormone therapy is risky or thatyou can start at any time if
symptoms or labs get bad enough.
But what if waiting too long tobegin menopausal hormone
therapy doesn't just meansuffering through hot flashes
and sleep disruption?
What if it means missing acritical window that could

(00:24):
determine your metabolic healthfor the rest of your life?
Today, my guest reveals why thetiming of hormone therapy is
about preventing a metabolicstorm that fundamentally changes
how your body processes energy,stores fat, and maintains
muscle and bone.
You'll discover why theconventional advice to delay
therapy could be setting you upfor visceral belly fat

(00:45):
accumulation, insulinresistance, and accelerated bone
loss.
And if you think you can simplyovercome these changes with
more exercise and stricterdieting, you're about to learn
why that approach falls shortand what to do instead.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering, and

(01:07):
efficiency.
I'm your host, Philip Pate, andtoday we're gonna look at one
of the most critical butmisunderstood aspects of women's
health, and that is the timingof hormone replacement therapy
and the very profound impact ithas on your metabolism.
Now you are gonna love my guesttoday as she returns for the
third time, the wonderful,knowledgeable, and always

(01:29):
friendly Karen Martell.
Karen is a certified hormonespecialist.
She's a weight loss coach,she's host of the hormone
solution podcast.
I can't believe you're notfollowing that by now if you're
not.
And she's helped thousands ofwomen navigate that fine dance
between hormones and metabolism.
She's here today to discuss thecue the thunder metabolic storm

(01:50):
of menopause and why the timingof starting HRT may be more
important than you think.
Karen, always an honor, alwaysa pleasure to talk to you here
on Wits and Weights.

Karen Martel (01:59):
Thank you, Philip.
It's so good to be here.
I love coming on your show.
I love talking to you.
It's always good.

Likewise, likewise, because we I think we have a
lot of overlap.
And then there are also thingsthat are just like totally in
your wheelhouse that I love tolearn.
I learn something new everyday, 10 things when we talk.
And so does the listener, andthey're always asking for you as
well.
So it's going to be exciting.
And it all you're also going tobe coming into our group to do
a live Q ⁇ A very soon afterthis comes out.
So look for that, everybody.
But you've had a lot ofinteresting guests on your show,

(02:27):
like Bill Campbell, who I knowvery well.
Um, you've been talking a lotabout the menopause transition,
which is roughly a, I think,three and a half year phase on
average for a lot of women.
You've been talking about howhormone uh changes, especially
hormone loss of the keyreproductive hormones, can drive
fat distribution, changes ininsulin sensitivity, bone

(02:51):
health, muscle mass, metabolism,and weight, all the things.
What is the latest we knowabout all this specifically with
what you call the metabolicstorm?
Because we want to focus onthat and how we can get ahead of
it.

So I will correct you on something there.
It's not just three years,Phil.

Okay.
It's okay.

We're we're looking, it's average now for
women, the perimenopausal phaseis typically eight to ten years,
and it can go on longer.
And and I think that that's animportant thing to recognize
because a lot of women don'trealize what's happening to them
when they're in their late 30sand early 40s, and they're like,

(03:29):
hmm, what's happening here?
My I'm getting a heavierperiod, or I've gained a little
bit of weight, or my hair'sfalling out, or my joints
starting to hurt.
I'm got suddenly a whole bunchof new wrinkles that I didn't
have a year ago.
You know, these little thingsthat just like this can for
someone they can slowly creepin, and they typically start to

(03:52):
do all of the other thingsbesides look at their hormones.
They're like, oh, I betterstart, I better change my diet,
I better exercise more, I betterdo this, I better do that,
which you kind of have to dothose things.
But you should also be lookingat the hormones because the
earlier you can catch thehormonal loss that starts to
happen, the better off you'regonna be.

(04:13):
And then the less of thatmetabolic storm, it's gonna be
sunny skies.
It's not gonna be a storm.
And this is where so manypractitioners are going wrong,
and doctors are going wrong, isthat they wait until a woman is
a hot mess way into her 40s,even into her 50s and

(04:35):
post-menopausal.
Then they're like, oh, okay,now we'll give you hormones
because you are still sufferingso badly.
And it's like at that point,many of these women are 10, 20,
30 pounds overweight.
And these are women that arecoming from a background of
exercising and healthy eatingand listening to our podcasts,

(04:56):
and they're likehealth-conscious women, and
they're going, what justhappened to my body?
And then it's so hard toreverse once it happens.
So it's easier to prevent.

Yeah.
So there's two things that arebig takeaways from what you said
that I got.
The first is the education onthe timing, which is what we're
talking about.
I'm glad you mentioned the, youknow, the three and a half
years that I was referring to isthe MT from the literature,
right?
It's that tiny period rightbefore the final end and end of
menopause, right?
When you haven't had a periodfor a year and you're at
menopause.
And what you're saying isreally, we have to back this

(05:28):
thing up and look at the wholespectrum that goes from as early
as potentially your late 30s, Iunderstand, but mainly through
your 40s and in your 50s.
We were talking about ZoraBenamu, right?
Who's she's been on my show andvice versa, and you you're good
friends with her.
Um, and she talks about all themisconceptions that not just,
you know, people, but womenspecifically have with
menopause.

(05:49):
And so that that's part of thediscussion.
The second thing you mentionedis how a lot of these women are
doing the things, right?
And and this is this is mypopulation too.
And those who listen to thispodcast of like, you know, I
know to track food or macros orwhatever, you know, I know to,
you know, eat the rightportions, I know to eat protein,
I know I should be liftingweights.
Now, maybe they're not alldoing that, but even the ones
who are, and they're stillfrustrated and like, what's

(06:12):
going on?
And like you said, a little bitof gaslighting, whatever you
want to call it, maybe it's moreignorance than anything, lack
of training in the healthcareindustry.
And it's like, no, you gotta bea hot mess, you've got to be
totally like begging for, youknow, hormone therapy before you
do it.
So those are two huge takeawaysthat I think set the stage for
like, okay, what is happening,Karen?
Yes.
And what do we do about it?

(06:33):
Let's unravel the mystery.

Yes.
And so let's get into like themeta, like what's happening to
the metabolism through thesephases, because that is like the
so important.
And and it starts when we startto lose our our progesterone.
So that's usually the first togo.
And that's in our late 30s,early 40s.

(06:56):
We run out of eggs, we comeinto this world with a certain
amount of eggs, we start runningout of them.
And when we no longer ovulate,we are no longer producing the
bulk of our progesterone.
Well, second half of yourcycle, progesterone is supposed
to come on the scene, whichraises our metabolic rate, it
raises the basal metabolictemperature in the body.

(07:16):
It also helps your thyroid tofunction properly.
And so that is the first thingthat starts to happen to the
metabolism, is that is we don'tget that rise in body
temperature in the second halfof the cycle.
Progesterone is also super keyfor GABA production in the
brain.
It influences the GABAreceptors in the brain, which

(07:37):
GABA helps us, helps us all tosleep.
It induces sleep.
We know that when people do notget a good night of sleep, if
you have, if you've ever worn aCGM, you will see that your
blood checkers will be spikedwhen you wake up in the morning.
Because it's like instantinsulin resistance the next day
when you don't sleep well.

(07:58):
So without that progesterone,which is helping you sleep, that
starts to go.
So now we're not sleeping aswell.
So now we're getting moreinsulin resistant, right?
Every time we, you know,especially if we're going for
longer and longer stretches andif not good sleep, that's gonna
start to really impact your bodycomposition, your blood sugar
regulation, etc.

(08:19):
The other thing is GABA is ananti-anxiety neurotransmitter.
So GABA helps you to be calm.
So now we don't have as much ofthis GABA response happening in
the second half of the cycle.
So we hear from so many womenthat anxiety starts to go up.
And if you're not sleeping andyou're so you're tired, you're

(08:43):
slightly insulin resistant, butnot only that, you're you've got
anxiety, a little bit of, youknow, just that like low-level
anxiety feeling all the time.
I'm sorry, but do we want toeat really well when we feel
that way?
Typically not.
Typically, your body goes, giveme the sugar, I need that

(09:04):
dopamine hit, I need somethingto give me some energy, I need
something to, you know, up myblood sugar here a little bit
because it's wonky.
And so you so this is themetabolic storm is now starting.
As this continues on, you getless and less ovulation, less
and less progesterone.
Now we're bleeding heavier, allthese things start to compound.
Then, typically around mid-40sto late 40s, estradiol starts to

(09:30):
kind of go up and down, butslowly starts to go down.
So it'll have times where itgoes high, but then it'll drop
back down.
And then, but it's slowly itjust goes lower and lower.
And it's estrogen, oddlyenough.
And I think this surprises alot of women because women tend
to associate estrogen withweight gain because of estrogen

(09:51):
dominance.
And we've got so much estrogenin our environment right now
that acts like estrogen in thebody, but it's a lot stronger.
And so, yeah, estrogen, toomuch estrogen and too much
xenoestrogens absolutely willmake you gain weight, but too
little estrogen makes you gaineven more weight than too much,

(10:16):
which is very surprising.
But estradiol, so there's threeestrogens.
Estradiol is the one that weproduce in our ovaries.
That is the one that is likethe master of our metabolism.
And so as it starts to go down,many things start to happen.
Number one, we have estradiolreceptors in the hunger centers

(10:40):
of our brain, right?
So it helps regulate youreating patterns as well as how
much you're eating.
So people, women will becomemore leptin resistant, they'll
have dysregulation with ghrelinlevels.
And so these are the hormones,these are our appetite hormones
that tell us when to stopeating, gives us the signal to
the brain, like, hey, I'm done,I'm full, and then as well as

(11:04):
hunger, right?
So just drives hungersensations in the stomach.
And so that becomesdysregulated as estradiol starts
to go down.
So we start eating more and westart craving more sugar and we
start becoming more insulinresistant.
It also helps us just toprocess glucose.
Estradiol helps you to processit.

(11:26):
So now we're becoming moreinsulin resistant as the
estradiol is dropping, and thatis not good either.
And then as estradiol isdropping, another estrogen
starts to come up because yourbody's super smart and it's
like, oh my god, we needestradiol.
This is the most importanthormone for this body because it

(11:47):
is.
We have estrogen receptors onevery organ, it helps every
organ to function properly within our brain, bones, skin.
I mean, it is so crucial.
It is not just about fertility.
And so your body goes, we needto get estrogen somehow.
And you can make estrogen fromfat cells.

(12:07):
And that kind of estrogen iscalled estrone.
But that's an inflammatoryestrogen.
And so, and and it's terriblebecause it's a vicious cycle.
The more fat you put on, themore estrone you're gonna make,
and the more estrone you make,the more fat you're gonna make.
So it's just this viciouscircle that feeds into each

(12:29):
other and makes you gain moreand more weight.
So we have this inflammatorystorm happening, which is not
good for weight or metabolism.
And then our esterdiolsdropping, we're getting more
hungry, getting more insulinresistant.
Where do we see, you know, youlook at somebody that has type 2
diabetes or insulin resistance,where do they carry the weight

(12:53):
in their gut?

In their visceral, yeah.

In their visceral, which is the worst kind of fat
and most dangerous kind of fatis visceral fat.
And this is the classicmenobelly that happens.
And I will tell you that youcan be the healthiest woman in
the world, and I really wanteverybody to hear this.
And this can still happen toyou, and it's an awful thing.

(13:20):
It happened to me.
I had been, you know, thisPuritan paleo 10 years.
I had kept at the same weightfor 10 years.
I thought I had this in thebag.
I was like, oh, perimenopause,menopause, yeah, not gonna touch
me.
This is gonna be like a coupledays of some hot flashes.

(13:40):
I'll lose my period, andthat'll be it.
I'll be in menopause.
Well, in my early 40s, I wentinto early menopause, which my
health status didn't help withthat, right?
Like I'm very healthy, and yetI still was losing ovarian
function early, earlier than Ishould have.
And I gained about 15 poundswithin a few months.

(14:04):
And I lost my period, I waslosing my period, I had itchy
skin, I was hot flashing andnight sweats like crazy.
I was in the metabolic storm.
And I'm like, how is it?
Like, I didn't drink, I didn'tsmoke, I ate so clean, I didn't
have sugar addiction, I wasworking out, I did everything, I
was in this industry.

(14:25):
This is what I did for aliving, and I practiced what I
preached, and it still happened.
And so I I want women to hearthat because they tend to blame
themselves and they think, oh,I'm not doing XYZ hard enough.

Yep.

And it could purely be from the drop of
hormones.

And that's why I wanted to have you on, because
there's two big aspects here.
There's lifestyle, which wetalk to death on this show, of
course.
And then there's hormones.
And I mean, I know just frommen talking to all every day in
my communities about why can't Isleep over 40?
Why can't why does this gethard over 40?
You know what I mean?
And it's like, take that times10 for some of the women I speak

(15:04):
to, not all.
And that leads me to myquestion, though, Karen, because
I want to get into even more oflike the mechanisms of this
because I know people love that,but it sounds like pretty much
everything in the body isaffected at some level.
It's in the population, howwould you break down women that
are like affected by thisseverely versus kind of it's

(15:25):
noticeable, but it'ssurmountable versus like they
don't even notice it?
You know, how would youcategorize just in general?

That is a tough question.
And I've thought a lot aboutit.
Like, why is it that some womenjust sail through this?
And they could be women thatare overweight, eating
McDonald's every day, you know,like that don't exercise and
they're like, Yeah, hop flash.
Oh, I think maybe I had onehopflash, you know.
Like, it's like, what?
How is this possible?

(15:52):
You know, so sometimes there'sno rhyme or reason.
I think that there's a geneticpiece for sure.
Uh there is some research thatkind of shows, like, if your mom
had a bad menopause or an earlymenopause, then you might as
well.
And that was definitely like mymom had a horrible menopause,
and she went into it reallyearly as well.

(16:14):
And she was really prone to hotflashes, like me.
And you know, so there we thereis a genetic component and how
you process those hormones.
It is also what were youexposed to?
You could be really healthy,but if you had exposure to some
of these very common toxins thatare in our environment, I mean,
none of us are free from thetoxins right now.

(16:36):
Like we're we're all overloadedwith them.
So did you have a lot of heavymetal exposure?
Did you have mold exposure?
These things really mess withthe hormones.
Did you have trauma?
There's a lot of really coolnew research coming out that's
showing that if you had PTSD oryou've had early childhood
trauma, that this affects howthe hormone receptors work.

(17:01):
And so when you're losing thosehormones, you can be affected
by it a lot more than theaverage person because you're
more sensitive to these hormonaldrops.
So there's many differentthings that can go into this.
And of course, of course,eating healthy, managing your
stress, all of these lifestylepieces, sleeping, et cetera, et

(17:24):
cetera, they have to be part ofthis picture.
And I'm not saying that that'sa waste of your time because no
matter what, that's gonna likemaybe I would have gained 30
pounds instead of 15 had I notbeen such a great eater and a
good in exercising, et cetera,right?
So there's these are tools.
HRT, it's like it gives thebody the tools to allow it to

(17:48):
lose weight so that if theefforts are put in, it's gonna
be a lot easier for that womanto let go of that extra fat that
she may have gained.
And I think that that's athat's important to hear.

You're right.
I mean, that tools is the wayto think about it, just like
with GLP ones, which can get soemotionally charged.
And as a coach myself, like Idon't want to be the one saying,
well, you have to do it thisone way, and I'm gonna help you
white knuckle through alifestyle change when that's not
gonna, that's gonna look greatfor me either.
When you all of a sudden yourmetabolism keeps tanking and
tanking and taking, and we'redoing everything.

(18:21):
I'm like, yeah, but we'refollowing the science, something
else is going on.
Well, the body's complex,there's physiology and there's
chemistry involved, and that'swhat we're hitting on today.
So, okay, you can't do anythingabout your childhood.
You can't go back in time andchange any of this stuff.
Well, you can.

You can work on your traumas and stuff if you
have not.
Yes, you're right.

You're you can work on who you are today as a
result of your childhood.
Um, but so you've mentioned alot of cascades, right?
Related to thyroid and thensleep and insulin resistance and
anxiety.
You mentioned um fatdistribution and inflammation
from which can probably bemeasured in blood markers from
something like estrone andglycemic control, you also

(19:02):
mentioned.
Now, what about the bonedensity and muscle side of this
musculoskeletal piece?
Where does that, how does thatget affected by all this?

Yeah.
Testosterone starts to go too,which is a very important
hormone for women.
And that, of course, has lotsto do with, you know, increasing
protein synthesis, musclebuilding, bone formation.
It's great.
It's great for many, manydifferent things.
And so we do see that comingdown as well in women in
perimenopause.
So that starts to affectmuscle.
But estradiol is also extremelyimportant for muscle.

(19:36):
It helps the the uh thesatellite cells to work better.
It they influence the satellitecells.
Now, satellite cells, they'relike muscle stem cells, it just
helps your body to repair andafter working out and helps to
grow with the grow the muscles,etc.
So without the estradiol, youcan actually have more muscle

(20:01):
loss and start lacking in thatrepair.
So women will say, Oh, I don'trecover the same anymore.
Estrogen is really importantfor lubrication, lubrication of
everything.
Your vagina, your eyes.
Like women will say, I'mgetting dry eyes, dry skin,

(20:21):
joints.
So women will say, my jointsare sore all the time, my back
is sore all the time, suddenly.
And this can be because of thatestradiol loss.
It also helps your body to makecollagen.
So all of these things reallyimportant when you're lifting
weights and trying to put muscleon.
And so we need the estradiol.

(20:42):
It's also really important.
This is kind of an odd one, butneuromuscular health.
And that's like how your brainspeaks to the muscles, and vice
versa.
And so that starts to go downwhen estradiol starts to go
down.
And so we have this once again,this perfect storm happening at
the same time that all thisother metabolic stuff is

(21:03):
happening, your cholesterolstarts going up, the blood sugar
starts going up.
Estrogen helps to raisecortisol binding globulin.
Now, this is a uh bindingglobulin that binds up your
cortisol, which you want theperfect amount, you want the
Goldilocks amount.
We don't want too muchcortisol, we also don't want too
little, right?
Astradiol, as it drops, itactually makes it so that we

(21:28):
have more free cortisol around.
But in this day and age, women,we we tend to have a little too
much cortisol in most casesalready because we're stressed
out, right?
We're running around, we'redoing all the artificial
lighting and all these thingsthat are coming at us all the
time.
And so now we get this increasein cortisol.

(21:49):
Well, cortisol is catabolic,it's not anabolic, it's
catabolic.
It also raises your bloodsugar.
So this is all going up.
Cortisol also, like you, if youhave too much cortisol, guess
where you put the belly, thebelly fat on because of the
blood sugar dysregulation.
So now we've got more fat goingto our belly because of the
cortisol going up, and cortisolcan affect, of course, then the

(22:14):
muscle tissue.
And muscle is the biggestprocessor of glucose that we
have.
And I know you talk about thisall the time, fellow.
This is huge.
So as the estrogen is goingdown, our muscle can be going
down as well.
It's gonna impact all of thesethings on how your body
functions, how it repairs, howit recovers from your workouts.

(22:39):
So why we would deny womenestrogen during perimenopause,
during this 10 years, is justit's mind-blowing that we say,
no, you can't have it becauseall of these things are gonna
start to compound on top of eachother.

(23:01):
And like it is, it's themetabolic storm.

Yeah, and does that storm, because I want to I want
to talk about labs and markersand some of the things we've
we've discussed on the other twotimes you were on, which for
the listener, if they'recurious, we did talk about
testosterone in detail lasttime, and then ages ago for
first time you were on, was justmore general hormone and weight
loss.
But um, this storm, right?
Is there an eye of the storm?
Does it calm down?

(23:26):
Does is there a fierce part ofit?
And the reason I ask is, youknow, I hear this narrative of,
okay, it's things accelerate,right, into the what I was
calling the menopausetransition, which was more of
the short period right at theend.
And then after that, are you,you know, do things calm down or
are you kind of at a newbaseline that's just suppressed
all of this stuff for good?

(23:46):
You know, like what exactlydoes that curve look like if you
don't do anything?

The curve typically looks like it is the
worst during perimenopause andduring the first few years
post-menopause.
That is where we see thebiggest impact on weight, on our
metabolism, on our uh brainfunction, all of the things that
start to be impacted by theloss of that estrogen and

(24:12):
progesterone and testosteronereally hits hard during those
years.
And then there is a somewhat ofa plateau for most women where
they come out the other side ofit, they don't lose the weight.
And you can look, you can seethis, and it's unfortunate.
You know, you look around, Ican see the women that are on
HRT, and I can see the womenthat aren't on HRT.

(24:34):
And I people get really angrywhen I say this.
They do, because then then theythink that I'm insinuating that
everybody's needs to be on HRT.
That's not what I'minsinuating.
But look at the average womanthat's in her 60s, and it is a
very common body type, which isonce again the insulin

(24:55):
resistant, the belly fat, youknow, it starts to affect your
vocal cords, your skin starts toage a lot faster without the
estrogen on board and theprogesterone and testosterone.
You know, the hair thins, youknow, the body starts to go
down, like as far as likeposture goes, because the bones,

(25:16):
we need estrogen, test, we needall three hormones for bone
health and bone regeneration.
So bone health starts to godown, hearts, heart problems
start to go up, things likethis.
So all of this, it stays withyou.
So what we'll see on labs iswomen that aren't on estrogen or
have never been on HRT orlittle too too little HRT, their

(25:38):
LDL will be up and usually outof range.
Triglycerides will sometimes beup as well.
Hemoglobin A1C and blood sugarare all up, and they tend to
stay up.
And you can look at this if youhave older clients that are you
know in their 60s, 70s, andthis goes for men as well.
And you look at their labs,most of them are insulin

(26:00):
resistant to some degree, andthen many go on to get type 2
diabetes.
And it's not all from hormonalloss, of course, right?
There's so many factors inthis, but that is just typically
what we see.
But the emotional rollercoaster, the hot flashes, night
sweats, the continual weightgain, that seems to chill in

(26:23):
once they get through tomenopause a couple years in.
It's not such a wild ride, andthings can stabilize, but that's
not for everybody.
I mean, my mom is 70 and shestill gets hot flashes.
And you'll and I've talked tomany women that have felt the
same way.
Um, a lot of the urigen, likethe you know, women will get uh

(26:48):
vaginal dryness, atrophy, uhchronic UTIs, like all of the
the genocuritant.
I always get it mixed up.

GSM will call it genital related uh diseases.
I'll just go with that.

It's always a mouthful for me.
Uh, but that is in 50% ofwomen, that doesn't go away.
You know, you you know, I'vewomen will say like, no, my
vagina's dried up.
There's no it's it's notgetting better as I age, it's
staying the same.
And it gets thinner, the skingets thinner and thinner, and
and that's a horrific thing tofor women to go through.

(27:31):
And it's it's absolutelyterrible.
I've talked to women that havesaid that they've torn, you
know, through when they havesex, they tear, they have
micro-tears, that they can'teven have sex anymore.
There, I had one woman early,oh, it's closed, like there's
nothing getting in there.
You know, and this is real allof this is reversible.
A lot of it's reversible, whichis nice to hear.

(27:51):
But yeah, so I would say thatfor some women, yeah, it
plateaus and it gets a littlebit easier for sure.

So it's reversible.
That's kind of the silverlining, but what if we just
don't have the storm cloud atall?
That's what we want to talkabout now.
How do we get ahead of thestorm based on this bleak
picture of the future that youdon't want to have and decide
I'm gonna take control of myhealth?
Because I think that's what itcomes down to is you're
empowering yourself, listeningto you know, your podcasts and
others like it, that thehealthcare industry may not be

(28:19):
the one doing it.
And I see that on my end.
You and I were talking beforewe got on about
performance-based blood work.
You know, if you go to yourdoctor and you get just any old
labs for whether it'scholesterol or testosterone or
it's um blood markers orinflammatory markers, they have
their ranges and it's based onsickness and disease.
It's based on the population,it's not based on optimality,
performance, and beingproactive, right?

(28:40):
So, and I know you you talkabout this stuff all the time on
your show.
So, at what age should womenstart to do what to get ahead of
it and at least understand,maybe I don't have to do
anything, but I've got theknowledge, or hey, this is
giving me the indicator that Ineed to think about that, you
know, taking action.

Yeah.
So embrace that you can't diet,you can't supplement, you can't
intermittent fast and coldplunge your way out of hormonal
loss.
It's gonna happen to everysingle one of you.
Whether you have symptoms ornot, you know, it doesn't matter
because what's going on on theinside happens to all of us,

(29:17):
right?
So you will lose bone.
You are gonna lose cognitivefunction to some degree.
Uh, you're gonna lose skinelasticity, you're gonna lose
vaginal elasticity.
Like these are things that justthey depend so much on hormones
that I don't know of any womanthat isn't impacted by this.
Like we start losing bone inour 30s, I do believe.

(29:38):
Like it or even earlier.
So this is happening across theboard.
And so it's really good to go,okay, I'm losing ovarian
function, changing my diet isnot going to bring back ovarian
function.
There's nothing that can.
We're not there yet.
One day I think we will be, butright now, no.

(29:59):
There's nothing that's going tobring that back.
And I think that that gives abig relief for women because
this is the time to startlooking now at your hormones.
And now there are many thingsthat they could do at that
point.
Like if you're in your late30s, early 40s, and you're just
starting to notice some of thesethings, oh my gosh, there's
some great supplements that canreally help with, you know,

(30:22):
helping with the production ofprogesterone when you ovulate,
helps with ovulation, helpshelps with the hot flashes and
night sweats.
And so for sure, if you don'twant to go to the HRT thing yet
and you're still cyclingregularly and your periods seem
to be okay, for sure, supportyour system through the diet
lifestyle and supplementation.

(30:43):
But then when it starts to getto the point where those things
are no longer working, you'regetting up there in your age in
your 40s, and then you go, okay,let's go in and test.
We want to see what's yourglutenizing hormone, what's your
follicular stimulating hormone?
These are brain hormones thatare telling your ovaries what to

(31:04):
do.
And those signals and thoselevels of FSH and LH start to go
up the harder they're having towork to get your ovaries to
ovulate.
And so that can be a reallygood sign for women to go, oh,
I'm struggling here.
I have a regular period.
I would not have thought thatmy FSH was up.

(31:25):
And so that's one of themarkers that I always want to
see is the FSH, because thatreally tells us a lot about
estrogen because women can haveregular periods, but their FSH
can start to elevate, which isjust telling us, once again, the
brain is going, ovaries, comeon, what are you doing?
Like, like let's wake this up alittle bit.

(31:45):
Like, and so FSH in a fertilewoman ideally is below 10.
When and it fluctuates, there'sa different range throughout
the cycle.
You're supposed to test it onday three is the ideal day to
test it.
So if uh you're a cyclingwoman, you're usually going to
be around three to five on yourthe first, you know, within the
first three days of your cycle.

(32:07):
As you get older and you stopovulating as often and your
ovaries are starting to quit,then once it gets above 10,
that's that's like okay, startwatching.
But if it gets above 20, Iwould say that is your like,
oop, now I've got to really lookat HRT because there's nothing

(32:29):
else that's gonna bring thatdown except for HRT.
And there's actually a littlebit of research that shows like
women that the FSH, when it getsabove 23, is when they start to
see the weight gain happen.
So this can be a really goodlike indicator of what's coming
down the pipeline and when tostart intervening.

(32:49):
And so for some women, it'sjust like baby baby dose of that
estrogen during if they seethat their FSH is 15, 20, and
it's like, okay, maybe I need alittle bit of estrogen, even at
just certain times of my cycle.
You know, this is when you wantto work with a hormone
practitioner.
Progesterone for sure, like asyou stop ovulating, your periods

(33:10):
are getting heavier and they'regetting maybe closer together,
and your sex drive has gone outthe window, you're not ovulating
anymore.
Because sex drive goes up forwomen when the when they
ovulate, obviously.
It takes and it tells us, goout and have sex, right?
So women will say, like, mylibido just is like gone and I'm
bleeding super heavy and myperiods are getting shorter.

(33:31):
Progesterone.
Because remember, if you don'tovulate, you're not producing
progesterone, and that's yoursigns.
And so putting in someprogesterone in the second half
of your cycle can be a lifesaverfor women and fast, like where
they start using it and they'relike, oh, like this is amazing.
I sleep, my mood's better, Idon't have anxiety anymore, I

(33:55):
feel so good, I lost fivepounds.
And they can ride that out,they can ride the progesterone
train by itself for a while,typically.
And then, like I said, mid tolate 40s.
Now we're gonna watch thatestradiol.
And as that FSH goes up and theestradiol goes down, which is

(34:17):
very hard to test at this pointbecause, like I said, it's a
roller coaster ride.
So you'll sometimes test it andit looks great, and it's like,
well, that looks okay, that'senough.
And then, you know, suddenlyyou're getting hot flashes and
night sweats, and you're like,what?
But my estrogen was fine.
So really go on symptoms,right?

(34:39):
So estrogen, once again, reallyimportant for libido.
People think it's alltestosterone.
Heck no, we want estrogen forlibido too.
And so if you're getting theselittle symptoms like the hot
flashes, night sweats, a littlebit, you know, a lot of weight
gain or a little bit of weightgain in the belly weight gain,
dry skin, dry hair, itchy ears,all of this is signs that your

(35:03):
estrogen is not high enough foryou.
So it could look okay on paper,and your doctor could be like,
you're great, you're in, you'rewell within your range.
Well, the freaking range islike if you're between 20 and
400, you're good.
So for you, and every woman'sdifferent.
Me, I'm very estrogen driven.

(35:25):
So when my estrogen even dropsa little bit, and I have a high
SHBG, which means I have a lotof my estrogens getting bound up
and not being used.
And so for me, if my estrogendrops even a tiny bit, it's a I
get every symptom in the book.
And so I'm very sensitive.
So I have to keep my estrogenup.

(35:46):
And I've talked to other women,they didn't even notice
anything.
They're like, it just getslower and lower and lower.
And then they're like, Well, doI need the estrogen?
I don't have hot flashes, Ifeel good, I don't have vaginal
dryness.
I'm like, I feel awesome.
Can you feel your bones going?
Can you feel the muscle going?

(36:09):
You know, like there's thingsthat you can't see.
What about your brain?
You know, you may not thinkthat you you or you may think
that you're fine, but maybeyou're not with your cognition.
You know, it impacts yoursleep, it impacts your mood, it
helps to estrogen helps us tomake serotonin.

(36:29):
So it's, you know, if you're alittle bit more depressed, if
you don't have the energy, ithelps with dopamine, it helps
with glutamate, it's likeoxytocin.
So it's like help even thyroidsensitivity.
So these things women don'tmaybe realize are from estrogen

(36:50):
loss.
And so you just you want tomonitor, you want to tune into
yourself and go, you know what?
I am a little, I'm not how Iwas five years ago.
So maybe we, you know, biohackourselves, put in a little baby
dose of estrogen, and just seehow it makes us feel.
The beauty of hormones is youstop them, it's a it's gone in a

(37:11):
day.
So it's not like you're gonnahave this like lasting impact.
So if you don't feel well whenyou start taking HRT, then
that's your sign that either youdon't need it, or you need a
different delivery form, or youneed a different dosage.

So anybody listening might be thinking,
well, that's really greatinformation and it's
overwhelming, uh, Karen.
Because I was thinking when Itry to communicate anything in
this optimization realm orperformance realm or health.
You mentioned biohacking.
I love the idea ofexperimentation, right?
Especially when you can get aquick feedback like that.
You mentioned several buckets,and I just want to like reframe

(37:49):
them from what you said to mefor the audience.
The first one is the first oneis the biomarkers, which which
I'm categorizing as your labs,you know, it could be urine
tests, could be saliva.
Like there's different forms ofthis, and you're the expert in
that.
And go check out Karen'spodcast for like deep dives on
you know specific labs and testsand all that.
Um, so there's that, but thenunderstanding how to interpret

(38:11):
that, which is where the realtrick is in terms of optimal
ranges, but also your range andyour trend over time and
understanding what you shouldbe, plus cycle to cycle, which
for women is an extra wrinklethat you know, men don't have to
deal with that.
So that's kind of the bloodwork optimization or biomarker
piece.
The second piece you mentionedis symptoms, which I'll I'll

(38:31):
label as part of biofeedback,right?
That is just your body'stelling you something.
And it could be in a so manydifferent ways.
Like you said, it could bephysical manifestation, it could
be mental, it could be uhemotional anxiety, and um, it
could be just things that aren'twhat they used to be for you,
like like you said, you know,libido and vaginal dryness or
whatever.
And then the, I guess the lastbucket I heard, and maybe I'm

(38:53):
missing something, isself-experimentation of you've
got to do something at somepoint to at least understand
this beyond just the data andtrying the progesterone cream or
trying the estrogen.
And a lot of these are safe.
And like, you know, the Women'sHealth Initiative did did
horrible things for ourunderstanding of safety in this
world.
But understanding that meansyou could approach it with a

(39:16):
little more freedom andflexibility to try things, get
off of them, and not worry ifit's gonna like grow a third arm
or something.
Um, and I'm just just joking,but you know, or it's gonna give
you cancer, which is the realserious thing people are worried
about.
Did I kind of paraphrase likethe big buckets, Karen, that we
just talked about?

Yeah, I think that that's a great way to put them
all into the buckets like that.
And and and I don't want tooverwhelm, like I I always try
really hard not to overwhelm thewoman, right?
Because you get so muchinformation out there, menopause
is a real hot topic right now.
There's all these differentopinions.
And the bottom line is when welook at the research, we know we

(39:59):
see that they're very safe.
And you always have to remindyourself you had these hormones
for the majority of your life.
And so when you question, like,oh, like maybe I'm not a good
candidate, or maybe I shouldn'tdo research here.
Is this dangerous?
Is it gonna cause cancer?
Is this blah, blah, blah, blah?
Did you think like that when youwere 16 years old, when you

(40:21):
were flooded with thesehormones?
No.
And so hormones are part of ourphysiology.
And yes, menopause is naturaland all of that.
And people will say, Yeah, butthis is natural for us to lose
our hormones.
Well, it's natural for us toalso get heart disease and die
early.
Like that's the this is thething.

(40:42):
And it's like, well, what's thealternative?
You know, we we are trying as aspecies to live longer and
longer, and we are grabbing onto anything and everything that
helps us do that.
We're taking the supplements,the medication, the everything,
the diets, and so hormones arein those categories where it's

(41:03):
like at least these arebioidentical.
This is something your body'sproduced in your whole majority
of your life, and they impactour wellness.
And without them, we do startto age much faster.
And they've done their researchon this.
They did one study that showedthat women within like six
months of being in menopausebiologically aged nine years.

(41:27):
So biological ages, how fastare you aging on the inside?
That's insane.
And so hormones are onesolution to this life of ours,
that we want to live an optimallife.
We want to stay as healthy aswe possibly can.
Then hormones should besomething to be looked at and

(41:49):
don't get dogmatic about it.
Don't think like, I'm not gonnado hormones, and so I'm gonna,
I see this all the time, right?
I'm better than all of you,basically, because I don't need
to take hormones, or I'm notgoing to, and I'm going to get
through this without them.
And it's not a badge of honorto do that.

(42:10):
It to me, that's stupidity.
It's like, why would you saythat?
You know, like because what areyou saying to all the women
that are suffering immensely?
Do you know that women, thehighest rate of suicide is women
in menopause and perimenopause?
So to say that, what you'resaying to some woman who, you

(42:36):
know, is on the brink of takingher own life because of the loss
of these hormones.
You're saying to her that sheis weak and that oh, she should
be able to get through this.
And we don't want that.
Like if you're cho if you'rechoosing not to do hormones,
great, that's your choice.
Awesome.
But don't make it sound likeit's that oh, some other woman

(42:59):
for choosing to do hormones isin the wrong and is less than
you.
Yeah.
And I think that that's likereally important to get across.

It is because you see that a lot, that kind of
messaging a lot in the fitnessindustry on Instagram with a lot
of things, especially byyounger people who haven't
experienced it yet.
Let's be honest, who are like,yes, like I'm gonna do it now.

People that didn't have it bad, and they're like,
oh, it's that bad.

Different experiences.
Same thing with GLP1s, likehaving talked to like I was a
little bit a little bitintransigally when it came out,
just for a brief moment.
And then I shaped up aftertalking to just a couple human
beings who like haveexperiences, right?
Which is what happens in thatum, yeah, it's a tool, and you
choose to do it, and nobodyshould judge you, and you
shouldn't judge them, andwhatever.

(43:46):
So speaking of actuallyspeaking of the GLP1s, GOP1
agonists and all the new onescoming out, where does that play
into the hormone situation?
You know, I'm not we talk a lotabout appetite and weight loss
and all that, but specificallywith HRT and GLP1, like what's
the overlap or interaction?
And what should people be awareof if they're gonna do one or

(44:08):
both potentially?
Um, yeah, because that's kindof a new new thing now.

It is.
And we we started using GLP1s acouple years ago in our clinic.
I also took them.
Um it and it was a lifesaverfor me.
Like it really was.
It it changed, it literallychanged my life.
And and I hear this all thetime from women.
And there's some women that,you know, no matter what they
do, no matter what, they can'tget off the weight that they

(44:36):
gained from menopause.
And it's and we don't know why,because these women will
replace their hormones, they'llthey'll be lifting weights,
they're prioritizing protein,they're doing all the right
things, myself included, andthey still can't get it off.
Like I got some of mine offthrough prioritizing more

(44:56):
protein and lifting heavier withwith my trainer, Pam Sherman,
who you know.
And she really helped me out,and I was able to get off quite
a bit of weight, but I still wasleft with probably about 10
pounds that I just couldn'tshake.
And I was like, okay, well, Iguess this is it.
Like, this is my body now.
I'm gonna accept it.

(45:17):
And then the GOP1s came out,and I'm like, hmm, I'll try
that.
Yeah, why not?
I've been waiting for this mywhole life.
It's a medication that actuallyworks for weight loss that
doesn't make you suffer.
And I I did very small doses, Inever went very high.
I got off that 10 pounds plusanother five, which you can see

(45:39):
I'm not too skinny.
I don't have wasempic face.
I didn't take it too far, whichfor sure some people do.
And I just take a very microdose now, and it's really helped
all my markers, it's reallyhelped with my menopause.
I don't get night sweatsanymore.
You know, I can keep my body ata really good weight, which is
awesome.
Like to be.
I'm 40, I'm turning 50 in acouple months.

(46:01):
And I'm like, oh my God, I lookbetter now than I did at 40.
And this has helped fromhormones, it's helped from my
lifestyle for sure, but alsofrom the GLP ones because, and
it's like, that's such a nicething to be able to have that as
a tool for menopausal womenthat you know, all else fails.

(46:22):
We could have, you know, amicro dose of these GLP ones,
get off that weight that wegain, go back to ourselves.
And that's a it's it'sglorious.
Like it's just a huge relief.
And we get a lot of the that'swhat we get for in our peptide
program, is we get that midlifewoman that and you uh you get

(46:43):
the stories all day long in thecommunity of I hit
perimenopause, I hit menopause,I I hit 52, I'm 55, I gained 20
pounds, I cannot shake it.
I've been trying to lose this20 pounds for the last five
years.
It will not budge.
I don't know what else to do.
And then they go on these andthey lose the weight, and
they're just like, they're sograteful.

(47:05):
And the research shows thatwomen that are on hormone
replacement therapy and do andgo on a GLP one, that they'll
lose 45% more weight than awoman that's not on HRT.
So that just goes to show thatyou know it's really important
to have those tools in place,even though you're doing even
though you're doing a GLP one,which is a quick fix, but it is

(47:28):
important to have the diet inplace, the HRT in place, the
weightlifting in place so youdon't lose the muscle.
Do it right.
Like I really, really I what Ipromote the most is we can do
these and we can do them in away that is safe and that is
right for the body.
And what what we're seeing andall the fear-mongering, a lot of

(47:50):
it is because it's not beingdone right and they they're
being overdosed and they're noteating well, they're not being
taught how to eat properly andwork out, you know, and take the
proper supplements and stufflike that while you're doing it.
So it is important to do that.

Yeah, and by the time this episode comes out, the
one with Jamie Sells or wouldhave come out, or we get into
some of those exact topics.
But it's funny because I thinkof some of my very earliest
clients before any of this stuffexisted, where they were
consistent, they were training,they were controlling for their
calories, they were eatingprotein.
Some of them were even on HRT,and something was just keeping

(48:27):
that metabolism lower.
And I wonder, so with the GLPones, I mean, it really is just
the appetite that it affects.
I mean, that we know that'sbasically all it does.
The the dual agonist does alittle bit more, and then
there's new ones in thepipeline.
Like Eli Lilly has a tripleagonist that affects your like
liver fat and glucagon, right?

I think it's way more than the appetite.

Oh, well, you mean just the semaglitide?
Yeah, you're right.
It's like addiction andeverything else.
Is that where you're gonna go?

But not even like it is.
Yes, I do.
But number one.

I was gonna actually ask that.
I was gonna, I was setting thatup.
I was setting up the question,not like saying it as truth.
I was gonna say, so what workedfor you then?
Like, were you controlling,were you monitoring your
calories and did you eat less,or did you eat roughly the same
and you just actually startedlosing?

I definitely ate less.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I definitely ate less, and that the appetite
suppression is definitely a realthing.
And it's like, oh my god, it'sso it can be really hard to eat.
And sometimes that's actually asign that you need to lower the
dose because you still want tobe able to put in the calories,
and because the weight lossisn't dependent only on the

(49:37):
appetite suppression, which is avery weird thing, but so I'm
two years out since I've lostthe weight.
Okay.
So I went on it, I lost theweight, and then I've been
maintaining since.
And I'm at such a low dose thatmy hunger is the same.
I'm eating the same amount ofcalories as I did pre-GLP one,

(49:57):
and I'm not gaining any weightback.
And even the pre mypractitioner, she's like my
peptide hormone coach that doesall of our coaching.
She's jacked.
She should see her.
She's shredded.
Like you've never seen a womanlike this.
It's just she's crazy, hugeguns on her.
And she's been on the GLP onesfor she had total weight loss

(50:20):
resistance, could not, no matterhow much she worked out, could
not lose the weight.
And like me, it was maybe likea 15-pound extra weight on her,
but she didn't like that, right?
Like maybe 15-20 pounds.
Anyway, so she loses it on GLPones.
She now, she was just tellingme the other day, she averages,
I think she said 2300 calories aday.

(50:42):
She's maintained the weightloss, and she she eats a
hundred, I think she said 150grams of protein a day.
So she's not having anyproblems.
And she is not, she has notgained any weight back.
My thyroid, I had to lower mythyroid medication, which I'd

(51:02):
been on the same dose of thyroidfor seven years.
I had to lower it because mythyroid started to function
better and my levels went overrange.
So that's metabolism.
My metabolism got better.
My friend Dr.
Amy Horneman, she's a thethyroid doctor.
Same thing with her.

(51:23):
She's been on the same dose for10 years, and she had to lower
her medication because she's shewas my redosing GLP1.
Lowers inflammation, it doessomething to the metabolism.
It's so it's like the appetitesuppression that tends to go
away after a couple of months orlighten up for most people.
And everybody freaks out, oh,my hunger's coming back.

(51:45):
Should I increase my dose?
And we're always like, no,don't increase.
Like, don't increase unlessyou've been stalled out for a
while.
You know, if you're not losingweight and you still have more
to lose, okay, slightly increasethe dose then.
But in most cases, hungerstarts to come back and the

(52:05):
weight still continues to comeoff.

You need to eat more.
It's like you do need to eatmore in that case, right?
To maintain the same.
Yeah, I've heard it's gonna beinteresting because I it's too
early for any long-term studiesto tell us exactly what's going
on.
It will be fascinating to see.
By the way, Amy Horneman'scoming on not till next year,
though.
So I didn't know your friendsare there.
I would have reached out.
Yeah, no, she's very busy.
Oh, it's amazing.

(52:31):
I try not to, you know, youknow, take too much advantage of
our contacts.

Heather (52:36):
Yeah.
Hello, my name is Heather, andI am a client of Philip Pape's.
Just six days after I startedthis cut, my family and I were
in a 7.9 magnitude earthquakehere in Adana, Turkey.
As I tried to process thestress and trauma, my first
instinct was to say, oh, you'vebeen through something hard.
This is not a good time.

(52:57):
But instead, I reached out tomy coach and he got me under the
bar that day, and he helped mekeep my macros that day.
And not only did I realize thatI was doing something fantastic
for my body, but I realizedthat I was doing something
fantastic for my mind, and thatit was going to help me keep the
mental clarity that I was gonnaneed to get my family through
what really has been a verydifficult two months.

(53:17):
Here I am on the other side ofeight weeks.
Got my kids through all thethings that we have been
through.
And I weigh 12 pounds less thanI did, and I got a new PR on my
bench press.
I have a long way to go, andthere are still things that I
really want to accomplish, butnow I know that I can, and I'm
really grateful.
Thank you, Philip.

Yeah, it's just it's a whole thing.
I mean, there's we're gonna betalking about this stuff for
ages, and there's still gonna belots of controversies about it.
But look, if from a medical anda health and a metabolism
standpoint, there are otherbenefits that we start to see,
it'll be fascinating.
Not to mention, I did mentionaddiction, like people who have
addictive, get more addictivebrain chemistry are helped
tremendously to the point wherethey may need to be on it for

(53:58):
the rest of their life, so tospeak.
But yeah, no, I I guess thatthat's all that's all I wanted
to cover on that.

Well, and well, and women have so much, like, I
mean, so do men, of course, butyou talk to these women and
myself included, where theirwhole life uh was spent watching
everything they put in theirmouth: calorie counting,
exercising, doing the math, likefreaking out about, oh my God,
I ate the cupcake.

(54:25):
Oh no, okay, I'm gonna have tolike intermittent fast tomorrow.
I'm gonna have to like go lowcarb, I'm gonna have to go keto,
I'm gonna have like we as womendrive ourselves insane.
I have been thinking that waysince I was 13 years old.
I have been fighting my weightand I've been fighting with
everything that I put in mymouth.
It was always a constant tallyin my brain.

(54:46):
I'm not proud of this, but it'sjust the way it was because I
was so I could so easily gainweight that if I if I wasn't
that strict, I would immediatelystart to gain weight.
So I had to be so careful ofeverything that I ate.
And I had to stay eating likepaleo and grain-free and low

(55:07):
carb and watch my blood sugarand make sure I exercised and
all of these things.
Not to have to worry about thatfor the first time since I was
13 is like I can't believe howmuch uh space I have in my brain
to think of other things.
It's just a huge mental relief.

(55:28):
And I hear this all the timefrom women that have had the
same struggles where they'vefought this their whole life,
and maybe they had foodaddiction and sugar addiction,
and they've were obese theirwhole life, and then suddenly
they can lose the weight.
It is like, how can some I justdon't understand how people
judge that?
How do people judge thatsomebody wants to take this

(55:51):
medication?

Right.

Food addiction is is just as harsh as cocaine
addiction, for heaven's sakes,but yet people don't see it like
that.
It's like, well, you chosethat, you you could choose to
exercise, you could choose toeat better, and it's like, screw
you, you don't know what it'slike to be overweight and not to
have the energy to work out orthe mental capacity to eat well,

(56:14):
and maybe you've got sugaraddiction or food addiction,
like it's a disease.

Yeah, and everything you kind of alluded
to when you said talked aboutstress and addiction in the
brain, and makes me think of theum some of the work that like
Stephen Guillonet talks about,uh you know, he's about about
brain-related genes and how um,you know, the genetic component,
there's such a differencebetween people.
Um, there's another guy I wantto get on the show, I forget his
name, that he's like 19 or 20,and he's like a genius when it

(56:43):
comes to appetite research.
And he talks about this stuffall the time.
There's such a wide spectrumthat what if, Karen, it's just
the fact that you're reducingthat anxiety and that brain,
that cognitive load and all thatstress.
And that's why yourmetabolism's approving.
I don't know, right?
Like so many things thatcascade.

And a lot of people will say that.
They'll say, I don't haveanxiety anymore, I don't have
the the hamster brain anymore.
And they don't know what it'swhat it's doing, but they're
like, I've I have so much reliefin my brain from taking GLP1s.
People that have inflammation,they're like, My inflammation's
gone, my gut's better.
Like all of these things canstart to improve.

(57:20):
And I think, you know, would weever say to the person that's
been depressed their whole lifeor been riddled with anxiety and
they choose to go on anantidepressant or they choose to
go on an anti-anxiety?
Would we sit there?
Would we attack them the waypeople are being attacked for
taking a GLP one?
Right.
Never.
And would we start to do yousee all over social media the

(57:43):
side effects of SSRIs?
Hello.
The side effects are they'relong lists.
So, yes, GLP ones, yes, theycan have side effects for sure.
And we don't want those sideeffects.
However, the the like, do doesthe good outweigh the bad?
I think so.

Yeah, yeah.
Is that and it's allindividual.
It it's funny you mentioned theum, well, not the SSRs, but I
did an episode called OsempicEnvy or something.
I came up with this term calledOsempic Envy.
It was the idea that there'sthis like weight loss wars that
are war that are waged in publicon social media, just like
there's political wars waged inpublic where if you were in a
room with human beings, youwould not be talking like that
or treating each other that waybecause it's on such a point.

(58:26):
We do this.
So it's like imagine you're inthe room with the person, how
would that conversation go, youknow?
Um I wanna the I guess the lastthought I have about all this,
because we're I know we'rebarely scratching the surface,
but it's going back to thecomplexity of some of this is
our healthcare industry isinadequate, in my opinion.
I think I think in yours aswell, to address this.

(58:47):
And if, you know, unless youget lucky and there's an
individual here or there, whatdoes the future hold?
Like, I this is more of anoptimism side of me trying to
and trying to pull this out ofyou too, Karen.
Like, what does the future holdas the different industries
change, as maybe there's morepractitioners like you, as maybe
technology like AI or and moreadvanced like labs and genetic

(59:08):
testing comes into play?
Like, how do you see all thiscoming together like 20 years
from now?
What are women gonna have astheir resources?
What is your vision for thefuture?

I have a really positive vision.
Like, I really see a lot ofchange happening, and there's
you'll get the naysayers onsocial media, they're like, oh,
menopause is just becoming amoney grab and blah, blah, blah.
And it's like, you know what,you guys, stop.
Like, we need to be talkingabout it.
Even like the good, the bad,all of it.
We need to be talking about it.

(59:37):
And it's finally getting talkedabout.
So it's like, let us let ustalk about it, let us scream it
from the mountaintops, becauseonly four to seven, I think it
went went from four to sevenpercent of women are on HRT.
So the majority of the public,the women, then there's millions
and millions of women that arein menopause.
So majority are not on HRT andare not getting.

(59:59):
This information, so we may seeit because we're in social
media and in the field in thisfield, but majority of women
still don't get have thatinformation.
Doctors don't have thatinformation, and they're trying
to change that.
And I see that change coming.
I mean, we just had a big panelat the FDA where they're
working on getting rid of theblack box warning off of the

(01:00:20):
estrogen package packagesbecause right now it says
estrogen causes cancer.
And they have zero, zeroresearch to back that up.
And so they're like, why isthis on here?
Like this just is unnecessarilyscaring women that they
something that could reallybenefit them.
Like, take this off.
And so that's gonna happen, Ithink.

(01:00:42):
I think that they're gonnastart.
There was another woman thatwas at Congress that was trying
to get so that um in med schoolthat doctors that there was more
on education on menopause.
Because right now, less than 7%of doctors are taught anything
about menopause.
And if they are taughtsomething, it's like, you know,
a couple hours basically, andthat is it.

(01:01:03):
But none of them are taughtanything about perimenopause,
none of them are taught aboutbioidentical hormones.
They actually have to go getextra training for that.
So I think more doctors aregoing to start to be educated in
this.
Public is starting to be moreeducated in this as we're
becoming, you know, more andmore, we're taking our health
into our own hands.
And so it's all about findingthe right information out there

(01:01:27):
with podcasts and blogs and allof this.
And so I see that women arebecoming more and more
empowered.
They're seeing that, hey, youcan be 50 and you can rock your
50s, 60s, 70s, and beyond.
And like you can do it in a waythat is super healthy.
You can use hormones, you canwork out, you can lift weights,

(01:01:49):
you can take the right cellphones, all these amazing
biohacks, peptides, peptides areexploding.
And these can be incredible,not just weight loss.
I'm not talking weight losspeptides, I'm talking about all
the other peptides.
There's hundreds, if notthousands, of them at this
point.
And they can be this amazinglike therapy that, you know,

(01:02:09):
working with somebody thatunderstands peptides, it they
can enhance everything.
I've tried, I've tried so manydifferent ones, like growth
hormones and uh mitochondrialstuff.
And like, I love it.
I love being my own like littlebiohacker and taking my health
into my own hands and beinglike, how good can I feel?
And so I just think we're gonnastart seeing more and more of

(01:02:29):
this.
And women are gonna starttaking more and more in charge
of their own health and go, oh,I can, I can feel amazing.
It doesn't matter what age I'mat.

Philip Pape (01:02:40):
That's great.
So it's like uh it's like aperfect storm the other
direction, the way we want it togo, right?
Maybe a little regulation overhere, education for doctors over
here, controlling your health,lots of choices, lots of
options.
Who knows what amazingtechnology is going to come down
the bike path.
I I tend to go to that first asmy engineering brain of like,
oh, we can get AI and cloneKaren's brain, and then we can,

(01:03:01):
you know, get everybody thehormone help they need, you
know?

Karen Martel (01:03:05):
I think that's all coming.
I do.
And I think there's lots oflike cool at-home testing that's
happening right now where womenare able to test their hormones
from home, like by just peeingon a stick, and they have these
little devices now, and we'regonna start seeing like stem
cell transplants for the ovariesthat's happening right now in
Mexico where they'rerejuvenating the ovaries.

(01:03:27):
You know, it's not legal here,but it's legal that they do.
Well, let them try it outfirst.
Yeah, it's like ridiculousexpensive.
I'm like, why wouldn't I justtake hormones?
I'm like, I asked the guy, Imet the guy that owns the
clinic, and I'm like, it's like$30,000 for treatment of the
ovaries, and you might get acouple more years before you hit
menopause.
And I'm like, nah, just takethe hormones.

(01:03:48):
It's cheaper.
But these are all things thatare happening, and I think that
we're demanding that moreresearch is done on women and on
women's bodies.
And I think that that'sstarting to happen.
We're starting to see somereally cool stuff coming out of
different uh, like Felice Gershis coming out.
She's come out with some greatresearch papers on hormone
replacement therapy.

(01:04:09):
Um, Louise Newson, these arelike the menopause like gurus in
social media.
The Newsom Clinic, she justcame out with some new research.
Uh, mental health stuff iscoming out, like being brought
more awareness is being broughtto it.
So I think that it's going inthe right direction.
Of course, you're always gonnaget the shit with it.

(01:04:29):
Sorry if you don't swear onyour podcast, but you're always
gonna get the garbage goingalong with the good.
And that's all gonna be part ofit.
You're gonna get the peoplethat are out just trying to make
money.
It's like, well, whatever.
Like, just who cares?
You know, it's just do what'sright for you and your health
and educate yourself on it.

Totally agree, totally agree.
And that's what we're trying todo, right?
So people need to connect withyou.
I'm sure a lot of our listenersalready know you, Karen, but I
want you to connect with themeven more.
So I'm gonna mention one thingand then I want to turn over to
you to send them the best place.
For those of you who arealready in physique university,
um, you're gonna get to seeKaren in there on the 14th of
October for a live QA.
You can ask her anything youwant.

I love it.

Yeah, there you go.
So if you're in there andyou're listening, you get it
included.
If you're not, I'll have a linkto register.
Yes, just full transparency.
It's a paid coaching program,but it's very accessible.
And so if you want to see Karenin there, that's your chance.
Karen, where would you likepeople to go right now and check
you out?
All right.

So I got something for everybody, which I'm so
happy I get to offer that.
But we can prescribe in everystate.
So I run and own a telemedicineclinic where we focus on women
in midlife.
We do not deny the woman that'sin her perimetopausal years
hormones.
Uh, and so we take a veryfunctional approach to HRT,

(01:05:54):
which I feel is is missing andis lacking a little bit right
now.
And so we look at every, welook at the lifestyle, and and
Phil's gonna come into my groupas well and do a QA.
And so we focus a lot on, youknow, all the lifestyle aspects
and then as well the HRT, and wereally try and look at everyone
from an individual standpoint.

(01:06:14):
We don't, we're not, you know,set on one type of protocol or
delivery form.
It's like, what is gonna workfor you?
And we will work for you withyou until we find what is gonna
make you feel your best and togive you that protection, the
heart, the brain, boneprotection that these hormones
can give you.
And if you choose not to dohormones, well, we've got a

(01:06:35):
whole arsenal of other stuffthat we can help you with that
well, if you're choosing not todo hormones, that we can still
do all of these other thingsthat would it's gonna help you
to age better.
And then on top of that, I alsohave a membership group for
those that can't afford theprivate coaching.
Um, we also have this veryaffordable group where we have

(01:06:57):
an amazing community of women.
We've it's been going for likeseven or eight years now.
And uh, and then I also justcame out with my own line of
over-the-counter hormone creamsand oils, which is amazing.
Um, and I'd love to give youraudience a coupon for them.
So these are creams and oilsthat contain bioidentical USP

(01:07:19):
grade hormones.
These are no different than thehormones that are in them are
no different than what you wouldget from a pharmacy.
That's the grade they're at.
We do all sort of likethird-party certificate of
analysis and purity of thehormones.
They're very clean products,and they are marketed as beauty
cosmetic hormones and creams.

(01:07:40):
That's how we can promote themand how we can sell them online
without a prescription.
And many, many women buy these.
We have an incredible estrogenface cream that has been shown
to just do absolute wonders forthe face, um, shrinks your
pores, helps with your finelines, etc.
Uh, just came out with avaginal moisturizer.

(01:08:02):
Uh, we've got a progesteronemelatonin oil that's amazing for
sleep.
So that's, you know, I'll pumpup my own stuff here, but it's
it's such an awesome thing to beable to offer women because
it's so affordable.
It's way more affordable thanprescription hormones.
And you don't need you don'tneed the actual prescription.

What's the name of the line?
What is like what's the brand?
Or what do you call it?

Hormone solutions.

Hormone solutions.
Okay, just like you.
So if everybody wants to grabthat, you can go to
witsandweights.com slash KarenMartell and you'll get uh 10%
off with my code Wits and Waits.
Um, I'm gonna be checking thoseout myself.
I know we have a lot of womenin the community that would be
interested.
And then Karen's uh hormonecoaching, which I hear nothing
but great things about over theyears that I've known her.
And then this new telemedicineclinic is awesome.
I love that uh direct approachto healthcare in a way that's

(01:08:49):
individualized and functional.
So thank you, Karen, so muchagain for doing this with me.
I'm excited for our upcomingcollaborations, and I hope
everybody listening reallyenjoyed and got a lot of this
episode.
I know they did.
Thank you so much, Karen.
Thanks for having me.

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The Metabolic Storm of Menopause and HRT Timing for Fat Loss & Muscle (Karen Martel) | Ep 382

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Metabolic Storm of Menopause and HRT Timing for Fat Loss & Muscle (Karen Martel) | Ep 382