This Former Athlete Ditched Low Carb to Stay Shredded After 40 | Ep 379 - Wits & Weights | Fat Loss, Nutrition, & Strength Training for Lifters

Episode Transcript
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Philip Pape (00:01):
If you're in your 30s, 40s or beyond and think
your best physical days arebehind you, think again.
My guest, brian, is a46-year-old medical professional
and former college athlete whowas stuck in the low-carb trap
watching his performance declinewhile everyone told him this
was just getting older.
After six months of us workingtogether, he's not only
transformed his physique butdiscovered that things like

(00:23):
adding back the carbs everyonetold him to avoid were keys to
feeling and performing betterthan he had in years.
You'll learn why the eat less,move more mentality that works
in your 20s fails you after 40,how to use your analytical mind
to cut through fitness industrynonsense, and why getting a
coach for something you'repassionate about isn't weakness,
it's wisdom.

(00:43):
Plus, brian gets raw about thestruggles men don't usually
discuss Scale obsession,restrictive eating habits, and
how physical transformationbecame part of his improved
mental health.
Welcome to Wits and Weights, theshow that helps you build a
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and

(01:05):
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Pape, andtoday I'm very excited to bring
you what is an incredibletransformation story that I
think is going to challenge alot of what you've been told
about fitness after 30.
Now my guest is Brian Kopka.
He's a 46-year-old medicalprofessional and former college
athlete who found himselftrapped in that same cycle that

(01:25):
many people and many men face intheir 40s and beyond Declining
performance, restrictive eating,the false belief that physical
decline is inevitable with age.
And after working together forsix months, brian has really
transformed not just hisphysique but his entire
relationship with food andfitness.
What makes Brian's experiencevery compelling is he has an

(01:46):
analytical approach very muchlike mine.
We love to get into the weedsand we also like to step to the
big picture and discuss thosestruggles that many people, many
men, won't admit to having, andhis discovery that a lot of
what he thought he knew aboutnutrition especially carbs
potentially was holding him back, and he recognized that and he
sought out the information sothat he could improve.

(02:07):
Today you're going to learn whyyour assumptions about
nutrition and training might besabotaging your goals right now,
how to use data to better guideyour fitness decisions, and why
investing in coaching forsomething you're passionate
about and trying to improve isone of the smartest moves you
can make.
Brian, thanks so much for doingthis man, thanks for being a
client and thanks for coming onthe show.

Brian Kopka (02:27):
Philip, it's great to be here and it's been an
incredible experience with youso far and I really learned a
lot from you, so it's reallygreat to be here, thank you.

Yeah, man, people are always asking for these case
studies.
They're like I want to hearfrom real people.
You talk a lot, philip, butlet's hear from the people that
you've been helping and it'sbeen fun working with you
because your background is veryunique.
You've been an athlete, you'vebeen a fitness enthusiast your
whole life.
You know a lot about this stuff.
When we started, I was veryimpressed.
I could tell you're reallysmart and been following

(02:55):
podcasts and all that, and yetyou still decided to hire a
coach.
So let's start there.
What made you realize that whatgot you to where you were
wasn't all that you needed toget where you wanted to go?

So you know, I feel like I made really good
progress and I got to the pointto where I started to question
things and wonder, like you know, okay, so I got to where I am,
does that mean that this is whatI'm going to do forever?
I started to wonder, maybethere is a better approach.
And I knew, based on mybiofeedback, that, you know,
while my results I was happywith, I wasn't very happy with

(03:30):
how I was feeling and my energylevel.
And you know, a big part of mylife is challenging things and
when I started to work with you,you know I remember sometimes I
would make comments andsometimes you would stop me
there and you say well, wait asecond, where does that come
from?
You know, have you tried this?
And you know being able tochallenge, you know this
societal idea that you knowcarbs make you fat and this

(03:52):
internal fear of consuming carbs.
This was a big part of, I think, some of the changes you know
that we made together.

So you're saying that we have a lot of
assumptions, not justassumptions.
There's something they call theillusion of obviousness, I
think it's called, where we justhold something that's true for
years and that's all we hear,and then all of a sudden
something challenges it, wouldyou say, it falls in that bucket
of, or it's more of you know?
This is not quite right, andPhilip seems to be one of the
guys that may have an answer, solet me talk to him.

(04:20):
Which is it?

I think it's a little bit both and.
And I think when you, you know,when you, when you realize that
you know, maybe things could bemore optimal, and then you seek
out somebody who's an expert init, you know, I think part of
it is being vulnerable andlistening to new information,
and then part of it is have tobe willing to look at yourself
and say you know what I don'tknow, that you know, while
things are good, are theyoptimized?

(04:43):
Could they be better?
Could I feel better?
Could I get better results?
And those are some of thequestions I was asking myself.
And that's a big part of mylife is looking at different
areas of my life, wondering ifit could get better and then
asking myself how am I going todo this?

Yeah, and so rewind the clock.
Try to understand how you gotthere right, because we all have
different backgrounds.
I was not from an athleticbackground.
You were, you were.
You have an athletic background, a different identity that's
yours.
That shaped your approach tofitness and how you saw all of
this.
So, maybe just 30,000 footlevel.
How did that identity evolvethrough your life and shape what
you thought you knew up to thepoint we started working

(05:17):
together?

Yeah.
So, you know, what I discoveredearly on in life is that, you
know, basically through sportsis there's a threshold that I
was able to push myself and someof it was being self-driven and
some of it was, you know, fromcoaching and I found it to be
very rewarding and fun to beable to experience that process
of achieving, you know, physicalaccomplishments, whether that's

(05:40):
on the field or the weight room, and that's, you know, one of
the things that I didn't want tostop once I stopped sports.
So what I did is I transitionedthat desire to continue to, you
know, achieve things physicallyinto my fitness, into my 20s, my
30s and now my late 40s, andthat's kind of how I got here,

(06:01):
you know, and I think one of thethings that I've taken from
this experience is look as acollege athlete, or you know,
and I think one of the thingsthat I've taken from this
experience is look as a collegeathlete or, you know, even a
professional athlete.
One of the things you do in theweight room is you track
everything Like there's nowalking in and saying you know,
I think I'll do a little this, alittle of that.
I think I did this last time.
I'm not feeling that good todayand one thing you got me back
to, which I think hastransformed my fitness, is

(06:23):
tracking everything and gettingback to progressive overload and
whether that's, you know, twoand a half more pounds, one more
rep with better form, likethat's the proper way to train,
and getting away from that, Ithink, was something that I
regret, because you spend a lotof time in the weight room.

(06:44):
You might as well make it asprofitable you know as possible.
So you know, and that, forgetting back to tracking, help
bring back that satisfaction ofthose, you know, those physical
accomplishments that I feltearlier on in life.

Yeah, because you can see what's happening, and
this is part of the surprise,even for me when we started
working together.
I want the listener to payreally close attention, right?
So when I met Brian, it wasalready really shredded.
Okay, Like if you just saw him,you'd say, okay, 8% body fat,
for sure, plenty of muscle mass.
Like, obviously he's doingsomething quote, unquote, right
and yet Brian's telling you hereit wasn't necessarily optimal

(07:19):
or efficient, or maybe the waythat he got there could have
been done a different way, orit's even not as much as he
wants.
There's all these things goingthrough your head.
Also, we're going to talk aboutnutrition in a bit.
But there's a lot of thingsthat he was doing unoptimally,
non-optimally when it came tonutrition as well, that we've
since worked on together andmade things, I'll say, a lot
easier for him to feel like, hey, I can sustain and grow this.

(07:40):
But it's really important tounderstand, like you joke, cause
you hear me talk about you on apodcast and you know it's you,
but I don't necessarily say itto you all the time and I'm like
well, I have this client whoyou know, who's really shredded,
and people are like well, Iwant that, but you know the way
he got to, the way you got to it.
Brian wasn want to be on theinside.
You know, in however you getthere.

Yeah.
So you know.
Well, let me give you aspecific example.
And you know, when I startedworking with Philip, you know my
my pre-workout was some blackcoffee with some MCT oil.
And Philip made the joke.
He's like, well, what is thislike a holdover from?
You know the bulletproof days?
Is this like a holdover fromyou know the bulletproof days?
And I said yeah.
And then I thought to myselfI'm like, well, what is the

(08:28):
evidence that is supporting thisand could there be something
better?
So Philip challenged me.
He said I want you to have ahalf of a banana.
I had a half of banana and myeyes lit up during the workout.
And so you know what that ledto is having a full banana.
And so you know what that ledto is having a full banana.
What that led to is having abig bowl of rice, puff cereal
and some fruit and 250 caloriesand usually 45 carbs before a

(08:52):
workout.
And I'll never go back tofasted workouts.
And what I realized is I wascontinuing to do something,
without questioning it, and whennew information came, I mean
it's something that I brought inand changed my workouts.
It absolutely changed my work.
I don't see myself doing fastedworkouts unless I was on a
desert island for some reason.
But so that's an example of,you know, one of the things

(09:16):
that's really changed for me.

Yeah, you know, I laugh because you got used to
asking me questions over ourchat and usually if you said how
much should I, whatever, or askfor a specific number, what was
my answer usually?

Yeah.

What was my answer usually when you asked me like
how many grams of carbs should Ieat, or how big of a banana, or
whatever?

And I love this answer.
It's self-experimentation, tryit out, start with something,
and you know what I love aboutthis and I I think in in this
field, you know of fitness andnutrition.
Sometimes it could be a littlebit and I say that joking a
little bit dogmatically like yougotta have this, but what works

(09:55):
for you, brian and that's oneof the things that I learned
from you, phillip, that I'mgoing to continue to bring into
my fitness and my workouts isI'm going to tinker things, and
what works for me might bedifferent from you or different
from somebody else.
So your answer was usually liketry it and assess.
You know which is good scienceand uh, and so you know I've

(10:16):
done quite a bit of that andwe've done quite a bit of that,
so I've enjoyed that process aswell.

Yeah, yeah, and I will say, like every client's
different as well at the way Icommunicate to client, right?
Because another client, let'ssay, I have a female client
who's really uncertain and maybenot as confident about things
and she's never been throughbefore I might literally say,
hey, eat this many grams and dothat, and then not even tell her
she's experimenting, and then aweek later I'll be like how did
that feel, right?

(10:48):
So it's the same process justthrough different ways.
So another one of those istraining, which this was even a
bigger surprise for me with you,I think, was again, if somebody
just saw you visually they'd belike, okay, this guy knows how
to work out, he knows how tobuild weights and we know that
at least beginners can doanything in the gym and they're
going to build muscle.
And then intermediates can dosome things and others are going
to be less efficient and themore advanced you get, the
harder it becomes.
But if you're like you, a guywho likes to go to the gym and
is consistent and committed toit, you could still have a

(11:10):
pretty good result, even whenit's not optimal, which is, I
guess, heartening to a lot ofpeople.
It's more about the consistencythan necessarily the approach,
but you wanted both.
So when we said hey, when Isaid I just want you to log your
workouts, and this was like,did you say this is something
you got back to, that you usedto do, or was this kind of new
in the way we were doing?

it.
No, it's a.
It's a great question and I,for anybody listening, I think
logging workouts is absolutelytransforming, and so this is
something that we did in college.
As an athlete I mean, look,college sports, you don't just
walk in the weight room.
You know you're given a programyou're given, you know how many
reps, you know what to do andthen where they want you to be
and you've got to.

(11:49):
You know you want to showprogress and you just got away
from it.
As you know, I say this inquotes, like as a civilian, you
know, and so this is something Igot back to and you know what I
took from it is that you knowthis changes workouts, this
changes results, this changesaccountability and you know what
it's enjoyable.
You know depending on.

(12:10):
You know which app you're usingto see that little.
You know PR, you know stickercome up or you know to see how
many you got at the end of theworkout.
It's showing you a, anindicator that what you're doing
is helping you progress, andthat could be your biometrics
with your sleep, it could beyour nutrition, it could be.
You know what you're doing inthe weight room, but it's
actually data that's showing youthat you're getting better, so

(12:32):
I I love that I will probably.
I'm always careful about usingthe words always, but I will
probably always be tracking myworkouts in some fashion.

Yeah, I agree, I love tracking and the fact that
you said it can be fun becauseof the result you get, but even
the process.
Like you, and I use Boost Camp,which I tell people about all
the time and almost everyworkout.
Right now I'm in a six weekbodybuilding cycle, so I'm
always when I start a new sixweek cycle, I start with some
fresh lifts and I'm alwayspushing PRs too, and you're
right, the little sticker comesup it's orange, it's like Zoom

(13:02):
PR and you're like man thatfeels good that gamification.
So if you're listening, you'relike well, I'm not very
data-driven, I'm not veryanalytical.
It can still be a fun way tolearn about yourself.
What are your thoughts on that,brian?
We're going to get into youranalytical mindset, which is
very much aligned with me.
What if somebody's just notlike that?
What would you say to them?

You know, what I'd say is try it.
If you hate it, guess what?
You could erase the app.
You may, and you know, one ofthe many things I learned in
this process is to be open tothe things you haven't
experienced yet.
And you may be.
When I say you, it's the personthat's trying tracking.
You may enjoy it, you might.
Maybe you'll be having a badday and you know you'll hit.
You know, two PRs in the gymand it'll.
It'll boost your confidence andyou know, you'll feel better
about yourself.
I'd also challenge somebody andto me this is very connected to

(13:52):
other things in my life when,when you start seeing physical
accomplishments in games, Iintrinsically ask myself where
else in my life can I puttogether a plan, track something
and do that as well?
And tracking is more of aprocess that I reinforce in the

(14:14):
gym, that I'm looking to bringin other parts of my life, to
better other parts of my life,because I think this is a
foundational part of makinglifestyle and life changes.
So, even working in corporateAmerica, like nobody puts
together a plan and doesn'ttrack it, or they put it on a
cocktail napkin, like you puttogether a plan and you come up

(14:34):
with you know smart andmeasurable and actionable things
to track it over time so youknow whether it's working.
And so what I challengesomebody in the gym is just try
it for a day or a week, see whatyou think.

Yeah, yeah, and there's different levels that
you can do it at, cause, I agree, like in the corporate world,
it always frustrates me whenpeople aren't tracking.
Or if they are tracking, I'mlike are you tracking in a way
that is objective, or is it kindof a thumb suck, you know guess
, because that also is not goingto be very helpful.

So because you're in the medical field, right,
you're trained to kind of lookat data and evidence.
I suspect I don't know wehaven't talked too much about
the details of your career, buthow has that influenced how you
to fitness?
Very much so, and this is oneof the reasons why you know I
wanted to work with youspecifically.
I listen to so much of yourcontent.
So look, in the medical field,if you're talking to a medical
professional and you saysomething as definitive as a

(15:35):
claim like this is this you knowmost astute medical
professionals want to understand.
Well, could you tell me youknow what it is you read or
heard that makes you feel thatway?
You know what's the data behindthat, what?
What's the key value?
What's the statisticalsignificance?
How many people are we talkingabout?
And I think, when bringing it tothe fitness field is when we

(15:55):
see some information, we hearsome bro science, we see
something on a magazine, ourneighbor tells us something.
You know, I kind of take thatsame approach sometimes and I
wonder so what does the data say?
And so so to me it's kind of acombination.
In fitness it's like what doesthe data say?
But also there's someself-experimentation, and so
what I've learned in thisprocess is to kind of combine

(16:18):
them both.
But I do weigh heavily on the,the analytical mindset of
evaluating things based on data.
And you and I have had a lot ofthese conversations, you know,
like I mean, I know that when westarted, you know, I told you I
said, philip, I want to learn10 new things from you a week.
And you're like, oh my God,this guy's crazy.

But you know, did I say that, I said yeah, let's do
it.

But you know, but, even one of them.

You know we talked about the role of collagen.
You know we talked about therole of meal timing.
You know, and, and so you know,and then you know.
One of the things that I reallyget out of this is you say, hey
, look, this is what the datashows.
So to me there's a bigcrossover between, you know, my,
my work life and my fitnesslife.
That makes sense, yeah, it does, and my brain goes a million
miles an hour here Thinking oftangents that are relevant.
I thought of two that you mightbe interested as a listener of
the podcast as well, and anyonelistening.
The first is Alan Lazarus.
He's one of the two guys atNext Level University Shout out
to them because they're behindthe podcast team that edits the
podcast Kevin Palmieri as well,who's been on the show a couple

(17:20):
of times.
Alan Alan is a very muchnumbers driven analytical
business guy to almost to a Idon't want to say to a fault,
but like to an extreme wherehe's he's a utilitarian right
Like if it doesn't have themaximum utility, it's not worth
it.
So he goes all out.
He's going to be on the show,it's gonna be a lot of fun, but
I think about that because youknow there.
There we talk about thehierarchy of evidence.

(17:44):
The evidence about yourself isthe best evidence, because
that's the one now that checksyou on whatever the science says
.
And then the other guy iscoming back, dr Eric Helms.
We all love Dr Eric Helms.
He's going to come on to talkabout epistemology, which is the
philosophy of knowledge.
How do we know that?
We know something and I knowyou're going to eat that up,
brian, because that's reallyimportant.

(18:04):
I hope everybody listens to thatpodcast we're going to get into
in the fitness world how do wemake sense of all of that and
know that what we're saying istrue, which is relevant to what
you just said?
So, yeah, that's good.
So how about this then?
What's another truth thateverybody accepts?
You get old and stuff declines,and aging is the cause of all

(18:24):
our problems, cause of ourmetabolic decline.
We lose muscle mass.
You're never really going to bebent over and frail, get to a
nursing home and then die with ashort health span.
That's like the dire outlook ofa lot of millions of people in
the world.
What are your thoughts on thattruth?
And I got to tell you that isone.

Well, first of all, when you say truth, we both
have to laugh.
It's a joke.
Yeah, of course it's fantastic.
That is one of my main driversand passions is that, you know,
guys, our age late 40s, you know50s, you know 30s this idea
that you get to this age and youhave to have a dad bod, you
can't be in shape, you can'tlook like you did in your

(19:05):
twenties, these are all thingsthat just, you know, people say.
So I would question that.
Well, you know, why do we acceptthat?
You know, why do we think thatthat's bad?
You know, why do I see so manyguys our age that are not like
that?
Why do we see guys like likeMark Sisson and even like I,

(19:25):
like I look at Joseph Pilates,like this guy was an incredible
Jack Lane?
There's so many guys.
You can go on and on.
You look around the gym.
This is not.
This is not.
You know, have to be, you knowdestiny.
So I asked myself you know, whycan't I do that?
You know what approaches,techniques and lifestyle am I
going to do?
That will support that.
And you know, and I and I sharedthis, you know, and I have it

(19:48):
kind of on the wall when I walkin my house.
It's, you know, it's it.
Basically, it says right,fucking at it.
And and the the?
The story behind it is anythingin life that that's hard,
that's challenging, that you'rescared of go right into it, not
away from it.
And so, when it comes tofitness, I think that this idea
that we inevitably have to age,not look good, not feel good

(20:14):
this is just things that peoplesay, and I think if we go right
at it and dive into it andinvest in it and make it part of
our life and surround ourselveswith people and circumstances
and coaches that support that,that we can look and feel the
way that we want to, even intoour fifties.
So that's something I'm realpassionate about.

Yeah, and not that we judge people by looks, but if
anybody's watching YouTube andseeing you here, I know they're
not thinking you're 46, you knowI don't even see gray hairs,
but besides that, you know, andwe've had a lot of guests, like
you said, surrounding yourselfwith people.
You know, I just talked to ZoraBenamu.
I think she's in her fifties.
I've talked to a bodybuilderwho's in his 80s.

(20:55):
Every time I see one of thesepeople I'm surprised that
they're 20 years older than Ithought they were.
It's because they're livingthis fit, healthy lifestyle.
There's something to be saidthere, because physical
expression is an expression ofwhat's inside and our overall
health.
But guys might be thinking okay, that's fine, brian, but where
do you find the time?
How about when I'm dealing withpersonal situations?
What about if I've got kids orI'm going through divorce or
this or that?
I have the terrible boss?
You've had some difficultpersonal transitions.

(21:15):
What are your thoughts on theconnection between physical and
mental health and your personallife to make it all work?

That's a great question and I think I'll tackle
the first part, about physicaland mental health, and then what
my advice would be.
First of all, I think thesethings are, are, are very much
connected, and I think one ofthe things in my life that
helped rededicate me to fitnessis I went through a really, you
know, really difficult breakupin my life.

(21:44):
I wasn't showing up in life asas the person that I wanted to
be.
You know, I wasn't the partnerI wanted to be.
I wasn't, you know, I just justwasn't the person I wanted to
be.
And I'm very open about itbecause I think it's important.
You know, I I got into therapy,which I think is, is, is life
changing, because I don't thinkthat our mental health and our

(22:05):
physical health are separate,and I rededicated myself, you
know, to my physical health andI think these things are, are,
are, are very, you know, youknow, synergistic.
I don't think that you know oneof these things can.
I think they complimentthemselves very well.
And then you know the secondpart of the question.
Look, it's hard and I get it.
You know, in theircircumstances, in life time,

(22:28):
family stress, doubt,frustration, the slowness
sometimes of gains or loss thesethings are hard and what I
would encourage somebody to dois, you know, to find ways to
incorporate in your life and forsome people that's maybe waking
up a little bit earlier.
Some people it's doing airsquats in between conference
calls.
Some people it's walking duringconference calls.

(22:48):
Some people it's, you know,doing meal prep half the time.
You know, maybe you knowworking out, you know, you know,
during, during lunch, whateverit is.
But ultimately I think for mostpeople that do this, it's not
something they have to do.
They learn that once they startto do it, they feel so damn
good that they don't want to notdo it.

(23:09):
It's not I don't.
I have to go to the gym.
It's you know what I'm lookingforward to doing this workout
because I want to see where mybody is.
It's not I have to eat thisfood.
It's you know what this foodmakes me feel so good and
nourished.
I can't wait for that meal.
So I would try to find ways tomake it a feel-good thing
instead of a have to thing, andfor everybody that's different.

(23:31):
I don't know if that answersyour question.

Man, this is great.
You should do your own fitnesspodcast, like a mindset podcast,
because the way you expressthings is spot on, because
you're getting at the essence ofsustainability and also not
making the excuse but not thatyou have to make an excuse
because you're not.
It's not a hard thing to do,it's not a thing you have to do.
It's a thing you want to dobecause that's who you are and
ultimately, that you become thatperson.
Right?
It's also what I'm hearing fromyou.

(23:54):
When I go on a show and someoneasks me hey, you know people who
say they don't like to work outmy first thought is, wow, is
that possible?
Right, Like?
It's so far from my brain now,even though I know, working with
clients every day that there'sthat mentality of this is hard,
it's uncomfortable, it's new,it's different, and the way I've
done it before in the past hasmaybe been some level of

(24:14):
miserable, whether it's I'vebeen doing cardio or lifting
weights and didn't like it.
There's a way to like it andget the result and then like it
even more.
Go ahead, say something.

No, I totally agree , and I think there's a lot of
internal dialogue here that it'sreally important.
It's not I have to do it, but Iget to do it.
You know, back in the day whenI was doing P90X and eating like
crap, I felt like I had to doit.
But now you know I know how toeat and I enjoy weight training.
So you know it's something Iget to do, even when I think
about diet.
Philip, I don't even like to meif somebody says oh well, what

(24:46):
kind of diet are you?
Wait a second, this is not adiet, this is a lifestyle.
I don't feel deprived, I eatthe foods that I really like and
, for me, I don't feel like I'mmissing out on anything at all.

Yeah, if anything, I've been forcing you to eat
more of things, right?
No, but let's talk about that,because you were doing a
low-carb approach before, sothere were aspects of that that
we've changed.
So let's go.
Let's go down that path.
What were you doing?
What did you think was helpingyou?
And then what changed?
You already mentioned thepre-workout, but there's a lot
more behind it.

Yeah, so what I was doing which was, I would say,
effective in building a physiqueand getting to a place where I
wanted to do, wanted to be, butnot where I wanted to feel was,
you know, limiting carbs, havingsuper high protein I mean, I
was sometimes maybe double mybody weight in protein,
depending upon the day, eventhough I wasn't even tracking

(25:42):
that much.
You know, that's what I wasdoing.
And then what we started to dois have a more balanced approach
.
I learned how to, you know,really strategize consumption of
carbs around workouts and thedifferent types of carbs used at
different times.
You know, based on how, youknow, quickly, they would, you
know, give me energy and what Ifound is that, overall, I felt

(26:06):
better, my performance wasbetter, and you know.
So that's kind of the, the, thetransition.
You know.
That I made.
You know, and also, I'd add,and you know, and I think this
was really important I'mthinking back to your previous
question about you know somebodywho's making this transition.
But you know, for me, learninghow to cook and I've always I've

(26:26):
been, I've been a food networkjunkie for 30 years Like I've
always loved food, I love goodfood, but learning how to cook
to me is paramount with this,and if it's not you, then it's
somebody in your house.
But having that skillset andunderstanding macros to me is
important, and the deal I madewith myself is if anybody asked

(26:46):
me, how did you become a goodcook?
I would say I've ruinedthousands of meals, thousands.
And the deal I make with myselfand I to this day is I'm going
to cook and if I ruin it, I'llgo out to eat, no problem.
And what I've learned is that Ican find you know some of the
most like fueling foods and Ican season them and prepare them

(27:08):
in a way to where I don't feeldeprived.
This is not a diet, so to methat's been a huge part of my
physique.
That makes sense.

It does it's.
It's like it reminds me of aconversation I had with Dr
Mickey Willidon I think ourepisode comes out right before
this one talking about how thisis all about skills.
It's really it is aboutbehavior change.
It is about knowledge butultimately it's skills because I
mean, that's where the behaviorsticks right Is through the

(27:37):
skill and, like you said, theskill of cooking food, the
skilled meal, skilled meal prep,even the skill of, like,
balancing your macros, likethey're all just little skills
that add up and they take theknowledge, they take the
application and experimentationand then see what works for you.
And we're going to.
I want to get a little more intothe cooking side of things
because I know that's an area ofexpertise and maybe some
entrepreneurship areas thatyou're looking at as well.
But let's set back to the carbsand the macros and things.
So this is a source of a lot ofour conversation over the

(27:59):
months of your metabolism andyour expenditure, how many, how
much protein you should eat, howmuch, and these are important
things.
So the listener we I know theywant to get into some of these
details.
Because you said you ate a lotof protein.
I mean you ate a lot.
You were up in like 300 gramsor something right, of protein
and very, very low carb and wewere trying to shift that and it
was like there was a little bit.

(28:19):
I can sense a resistance fromyou of wanting to shift it,
which makes sense that we allhave our like the ceiling where
we are now and like there's astep too far for some people and
we had to make it manageable.
So maybe tell us about thatprocess of inching up the
calories, inching down theprotein and up the carbs, like
kind of what that process waslike for you.

Yeah, and I think that process very important.
I don't know that I would havegotten there without a coach.
In fact, I wouldn't have gottenthere without a coach because I
would have done it a long timeago.
So what that process was likeis, anytime you do something in
life that's new and that has alot of, you know, fear mongering
around it, like carbs make youfat, it could be a little bit

(29:00):
scary, and so I think one of thethings that we did really well
together is, you know, westarted with a banana and next
thing, you know, I'm at thestore and I'm looking at oatmeal
.
I'm like oatmeal I've nevercooked oatmeal in my life.
And then I started to havesweet potatoes and you smell the
house when you're cooking sweetpotatoes and you're like, oh,
my God, this is like theholidays.

(29:28):
And then I start thinking aboutfruit and rice puffs, like
slowly bringing in more carbsand paying attention to
biofeedback.
What I realized is that there'sa better way for me and there's
another, more balanced approach.
So that's one of the things youknow that I took from it.
But I think one of the thingsthat worked for me as far as you
know us working together is,you know, you were, you were

(29:48):
very understanding in that.
Hey, okay, this is where I'm at.
You know, this is where we'retrying to go, but we're going to
go there in a way that that,you know, that makes sense for
the person, like we didn't gofrom.
Okay, you're eating a hundredcarbs a day, we're going to go
right to, you know, 300immediately, like it was a
process, and I think that's oneof the things that worked for me
here.

Yeah, cause in some cases I did sort of push you to
a level that maybe you weren'tready for at the time and then
you just told me you said, hey,I'm not eating that many
calories, like you know.
Or I want you to 20, 2300,you're at 2100.
It feels good and, by the way,your expenditure seems lower
than we expect.
So it's okay.

(30:26):
Like we don't want you to gaina bunch of weight unnecessarily
and we don't want you to beunder recovered.
So it's this fine dance backand forth and you needed a coat
and I'm not saying you had tohave a coach, but you almost did
, like anybody listening.
That extra pair of eyes isgoing to give you that feedback
and also challenge you and alsosupport you and kind of hold you
as you if you fall or whatever.
You know what I mean.

(30:47):
Like it's all of it pushing you, holding you.
And so let's touch on a few ofthose specific areas.
Right, carbs, fiber.
You eat a lot of fiber.
So because you cook at home andbecause you eat a lot of whole
foods, you have a lot of fiber.
Like 60, 70 grams of fiber,which for most guys I'm asking
them to get at least 30 or 35,right, so you're plenty in there
.
But we had this conversationabout the macro math, how, like,

(31:15):
a normal gram of carb is fourcalories but a gram of fiber is
like two and a half or less.
It could be zero depending onthe type of fiber.
And you're like, so you'retelling me to eat more carbs
than macro factors telling me,and how is that not going to go
over the calories?
And we had that conversationlike it's because of all the
fiber, you actually need moregrams of carbs because it
doesn't add up to as manycalories.
That's just one example becauseof my, I don't know if you want
to comment on that.

No, it's a great point.
I remember looking at my macrofactor one day and I said you
know what?
Let me just check the app.
And I started to do the mathand I thought to myself I think
I found a glitch in the app, youknow.
But you know what?
What I took from that is look,there's different kinds of carbs

(31:54):
.
And what I took from that isyou know, pre and post workout
there's certain carbs that workbetter for me.
You know, at lunchtime and atdinnertime there's different,
slower acting carbs, slowerdigesting carbs that work better
for me.
But I think one of the manythings I got from you know
tracking is you get to see.
You know what you're eating.
You know, and I think a lot ofpeople could speculate, you know
I'm definitely getting my bodyweight and protein.

(32:15):
What?
How do you know?
I mean, do you weigh thechicken breasts, like, do you
count?
You know, do you count thisstuff?
If I went to a financialadvisor and if he said to me he
goes, you know, I think you're,you're probably going to be good
to retire around this age.
I'm just guessing tire aroundthis age.
I'm just guessing, I'm thinkingI don't know, but I would be
like, wait a second, how do wemeasure this?

(32:37):
You know, I want to be really,you know, really specific about
it.
So, getting to your question,you know, when it comes to carbs
, you know, you know, that's oneof the things that I took from
that.

Yeah, and then another one was weight gain.
Right, like we should talk aboutthat, because I definitely have
mentioned you on the podcast afew times again without saying
your name, saying, like I havethis client who's he's a guy,
not a woman, because we alwaystalk about women and weight gain
and a bit afraid of gaining toomuch weight, and it makes sense
.
You know you're lean, you workedhard for it, you don't want to,
like just gain fatunnecessarily, and it's true

(33:04):
that leaner folks have adifferent propensity for gaining
fat, for example, than someonewith more body fat who has the
energy stores on their body.
Well, we worked on that and wekind of had a bunch of variables
changing at once.
That's kind of what I wanted totalk about, and you're welcome
to be open with whatever you'rewilling to share regarding any
medications or whatever.

(33:26):
But one of the things we did iswe introduced creatine, which
for most clients, when they docreatine, they might get a
couple pound weight bump andthen things level out in a few
weeks and I feel like for you itjust kept ballooning up your
water retention and weight forlike weeks and weeks and weeks,
and so you went off of it and itkind of came back proving
almost that that was what it wasdoing.
Anyway, tell us your thoughtson all that.

Yeah, you know.
So, first of all, you know Iwant to acknowledge, you know I
don't know how many guys are,you know, open about it, but you
know when it comes to weight,you know sometimes it's it's
it's not easy for people,especially if they have a family
history of obesity or they havea history, you know, being
heavier.
And when you're makinglifestyle changes and they're
stacking each other and they'recompounding, you could see

(34:07):
variations in weight, especiallywhen you're doing it daily.
And variations in weightespecially when you're doing it
daily.
And I know that if you ask mostpeople about weighing
themselves daily, they probablydon't want to, because you know
they don't want to see thatnumber daily.
And I think the big learningfrom it is that it's natural to
have variations in weight dailybased on a lot of things.
So for me personally you know,philip, to answer your question

(34:29):
you know when you're doing a lowcarb diet and you introduce
carbs and one of the things thatI got from you is you help you
know me really understand thescience behind what happens when
you ingest carbs in terms ofyou know the water storage and
the muscle and what that meansin terms of weight, especially
the next day and then you add on, you know, creatine, I mean you

(34:49):
could see large fluctuations inweight and I think you know
being able to, to understand thescience behind it, and one of
the things you always said thatI loved and it always stick with
me it's natural for somebody tostep on a scale.
It's not natural, it's very.
I would say it's a.
It's common for somebody tostep on a scale in a day and

(35:11):
have one, three pounds different.
I've done it.
And then you would say to medid you overeat by 7,000
calories yesterday?
And obviously I didn't, youknow.
So what are the other factors?
So this is the course ofquestions week.
So what are some of the otherfactors that might contribute to
this?
And that's really helpful inunderstanding the fluctuations

(35:33):
in weight, and I know a lot ofguys might not talk about it.
I'm sure it's important to youknow a lot of people, including
women, but it's important toknow that for me.
So that's one of the biglearnings I got from this.

Yeah, yeah, exactly , I mean, otherwise you're.
Even when you're measuring andtracking, you may misinterpret
the data, which is important too.
You got to understand why it'schanging, and I do always love
throwing that back at people oflike.
You know, a pound of fat is3,500 calories, so unless you
over-consume by that, you didn'tgain a pound of fat.

Allan (36:03):
It's a pound of something else, something else that's not
fat.
Hi, my name is Alan and I justwant to give a shout out to
Philip, Pape of Wits and Weights, for being a huge part of the
foundation for my continuedhealth and well-being.
Philip exemplifies a nutritioncoach who demonstrates how much
he cares.
Philip works tirelessly andwith dedication to provide

(36:28):
coaching, support and majorcontent for us to use.
He creates a practical approachfrom research and Philip
empowers all of us to use foodas quality for our health.
He is skilled in how to assessand direct nutrition.
Philip creates a community fullof wisdom, support and
camaraderie.
In summary, philip Pipe is thereal deal.
He knows how to assess anddirect nutrition and he

(36:50):
continues to steer me in theright direction.
Thank you, philip All right.

So you know we can go all day about the details of
that, but let's talk about thecoaching philosophy in general,
or your philosophy about coachesfor things you're passionate
about, because you've alreadymentioned something earlier, not
about coaching, but you saidthe process that you use in
physical fitness is the sameprocess you can use anywhere
else in your life, and I lovethat because I think people do

(37:16):
need to think about alwaysimproving and always.
Not 1% a day, but I waslistening to a podcast today.
They were talking about 0.1% aday because that's more
achievable for most people.
But, regardless, expand on thatthought about your philosophy
of getting coaches for thingsthat you're passionate about.

Yeah.
So I'm a big believer ininvesting in oneself and I want
to be the best employee, thebest son, the best partner, the
best friend.
I want to be the best in thegym and for me, in order to do
that, I got to surround myselfwith people that are supportive
and that challenge me.
I made a joke with my therapist.
I'm know one of the things thatreally worked for me in the gym

(37:52):
is progressive overload.
I don't see any reason whythat's not applicable in therapy
.
You know you keep pushingyourself, you keep digging, you
keep, you know, do a little bitmore than last time because it's
going to yield.
You know, personal development.
You know.
So like for me in my life, likeI think about it, it's like I
want to have this board ofdirectors around me.
You know I have a therapist formental health.

(38:13):
You know I decided to work withPhillip because I wanted to.
You know, upskill myself infitness and nutrition.
You know most people you knowmight have some kind of
financial person that they workwith.
They don't freelance that on ayellow notepad.
I'm working on becoming astoryteller, so I'm reading a
book and taking a course onstorytelling.

(38:34):
There's a mobility and astretch coach at our gym.
You know I'm going to do asession with him because I want
to better incorporate that in.
So I think the point is thatyou know, especially as, as you
know, as I've gotten older is Iwant to surround myself with
people that help me upskillmyself in every aspect of my
life, and I think some of it isjust looking at myself saying

(38:55):
you know what?
I have a gap here.
I need to know more, I need toknow better, and that's part of
the philosophy, if that makessense.

No, it makes a lot of sense now that you say it,
because I think about all thecoaches in my life who aren't.
They're not, like you know,coaches that I hire for a six
month contract, necessarily, butthey're a mentor, a coach, an
expert, even if it's a friendwho you know.
I'm not paying them, but I cango to them because I know they
know way more than I do, andtalking to them for five minutes
is going to teach me somethingthat would have taken me five
years.

(39:24):
It's kind of like the jokeabout the guy who went to
Picasso and Picasso drew thepicture on the napkin and he
said that'll be like $500.
I don't, I don't remember theexact deal.
And he's like why is that $500?
You just drew, took you twominutes on a napkin.
He's like you're not paying forthe napkin, you're paying for
my entire.
You know history of myexperience, right?
That kind of idea.

(39:44):
So like when I learned to squat, I was stubborn about it for
like a year and then I went tocoach an hour away.
I drove an hour, spent an hour,got an hour back home, paid him
a hundred bucks and my squatwas beautiful from that point on
and just think about how muchfrustration I say.
So, even if you don't have alot of money, you can still find
experts, help, support right.

Totally.
You can go online.
I mean, you can learn how tocook online, you can do
everything online and that's youknow.
The one thing I want to sayabout the gym, you know, in
relation to this subject ofcoaching, you know most gyms,
when a guy you know is in greatshape and if you go up to him
and I'm comfortable doing thishey man, you, you look great I'm
curious.
You know what's your workoutroutine, what do you eat?
If you don't mind me askingwhat's your lifestyle, like you

(40:27):
know, number one, they're goingto be flattered that you're
admiring them because it's true.
But, number two, most peopleare really eager to share with
you what's worked for thembecause they're really
passionate about it.
So I even encourage people, youknow, to ask people at the gym.
I've learned a lot from andlook, some of it is you know
things.
I have to go home and factcheck and Google, but a lot of

(40:48):
stuff has been very helpful.
So I think that's anotheravenue you know that people
could use.
You know that's free.

Yep, which is another form of surrounding
yourself with the best and theknowledgeable.
So all right For guys who arelistening and women, because
this is everything we're sayingis relevant to human beings in
general.
But you know, they're in asimilar position you were in.
Maybe they don't have to be aformer athlete, but maybe
they're in their 40s and 50s.
We have a lot of listeners whoare kind of in that demographic

(41:16):
and stuck in old patterns orlistening to the show because
they want to get inspired totake action.
I talk all the time let's don'tbinge the content.
As great as Wits and Weights is, you're now over 500 episodes.
You'd have to binge.
Take action now.
What?
Take action now?
What would you tell them aboutmaking this kind of change like
you've made?

I would say get uncomfortable, you know, be
vulnerable, be open to differentinformation, think about how
it's going to feel when you'reable to achieve certain things
and feel better, and what thatmight look like for you.
And I think this you know, thissubject we're talking about,
about getting a coach, no matterwhat fitness level you're at.

(41:54):
I mean, there's so muchinformation out there that's
constantly changing, and to haveaccess to somebody who has a
pulse on all that, I think issomething you know life
enhancing.
And I think that when youenhance your physical life,
think about you know how itbleeds over into everything else
.
A lot of people are so busywith kids and work they don't

(42:17):
have the time to get into thefine nuances of all the fitness
trends and what's real andwhat's not, and to be able to
talk to somebody and be in anenvironment where you have
access to that quickly orquicker than you have time for I
think it's life-changing.

Yeah, yeah, I think it is.
It's an accelerator.
A time efficiency acceleratoris what you're getting at,
because you're a busy guy and Iknow you carve out the time for
these kinds of things.
You're very passionate about it.
I've had clients who are like Ijust kind of want the result,
I'm committed to it, but Ireally don't have the time to
dig into the science andeverything.
They have curiosity, but theyjust don't have the time.
And that's an accelerator,because you'd be like okay,

(42:57):
here's your next two steps Go dothose, report back.
Now you have to do the work.
You have to be committed.
Step one is commitment.
Step two is do the work.
And then you have to do thetracking to see whether it's
working or else a coach can'thelp you right, they're not
going to know without the data.
But I think everything you saidtoday is tremendously valuable,
brian.
It really is like encapsulatedinto one conversation.

(43:17):
I'm going to ask you my $60,000question, which is is there
anything you wished I had asked,and what is your answer?

I guess the only thing is you know, when it comes
to food, you know what are someof the things you've learned
that have made, I guess, thephysique building and fitness
process easier for you.
And the reason why I like thatquestion is because I've spent a

(43:45):
lot of time trying to findreally good recipes or I don't
like the word hacks, but thingsthat help enhance our nutrition.
So, like you know I've told youthis I've eaten a pint of ice
cream every night for threeyears, every night, unless I'm
on vacation and I don't have it.
You know, with my Ninja Creamy,I've learned, you know, that I

(44:06):
dare somebody to eat 300calories of strawberries because
I've learned, you know whatfoods are high volume and tasty
and fill you up and feelsatisfied, you know.
So you're not eating sixalmonds and then feeling
deprived.
So I think this, this subjectaround, you know food and what
things and choices can make thisprocess enjoyable.

(44:28):
I you know.
I really want people to knowthis doesn't have to be a a a
difficult thing where you feeldeprived.
There's a lot of things outthere that people can do and
learn to make this fun, make itenjoyable.

Yeah, that's a good point, because people are in
different situations with theirmetabolism.
And there's a lot of, forexample, women or people who've
had bariatric surgery, forexample, who have lower
metabolisms.
Right, and Brian's is notexceptionally high at the moment
.
It's not like 3,000 calories,but some people's might be 1,500
, and they feel like they'redieting even when they're not.

(45:03):
And what you're talking aboutis there's a way to eat based on
volume, based on whole foods,based on cooking your own meals
and making things delicious thatyou would normally avoid
because they're like well,that's nice and filling and
healthy, but it's kind of boring.
Now you can make it delicious.
That will go a long way towardfeeling like you're eating 2000
calories when you're only eating1500.
And your 60 gram fiber is agood example of that.

(45:24):
Brian, If somebody literallyadopted your diet right now,
they probably would feel a lotfuller.
I just know it.

Yeah, cool man, and that's one of those things that
you know I've learned hashelped me in different ways, and
I've learned when to use fiber,how to use fiber, so, yeah,
yeah, but you know people onCarnivore say you don't need
fiber, but that's a differenttopic for another day.

Brian, where do you want folks to look you up?
I know lot of things happening.
What do you want people toconnect with you personally?

So I'm going to, I'll share with you my email and
I'm always I'm a big proponentof helping others.
I would have never got to whereI am in life professionally or
personally or or fitness wisewithout the help of others.
So I'll give you my email andthey can reach out to me
directly via email for help orin any way I could support
somebody with any of thesubjects we talked about.
I'd always be happy to.

Cool.
Yeah, we'll throw the email inthe show notes.
We'll make it so that it's notclickable in the show notes to
avoid the spammers and getpeople reaching out to you,
brian.
So, man, this has been fun.
Again, people love these casestudies and we really covered a
lot of the interesting things wedid together and, honestly, we
scratched the surface.
There's a lot we didn't covertoday, but thanks again, man,
for doing this and coming on theshow.
Thanks for having me, phil.

Appreciate it.

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This Former Athlete Ditched Low Carb to Stay Shredded After 40 | Ep 379

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}This Former Athlete Ditched Low Carb to Stay Shredded After 40 | Ep 379