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July 18, 2025 58 mins

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Is your doctor telling you to “lift heavy” but you don’t even know where to start? Wondering how to build strong bones without ending up hurt or overwhelmed? Curious if weighted vests actually do anything for bone health?

I brought Megan Dahlman back to the show to answer these questions and more. Megan is a strength coach who specializes in helping women over 40 build muscle, improve mobility, and fight back against a condition called osteosarcopenia. We talked about the risks of jumping into heavy lifting the wrong way and how to progress smartly and safely from bodyweight to weights.

Today, you’ll learn all about:

2:50 – What is osteosarcopenia?
6:38 – How muscles and bones work together
11:28 – Why “lift heavy” can backfire
18:21 – The best place for beginners to start
23:11 – The truth about weighted vests
28:20 – What’s the minimum effective dose?
36:39 – Should you train for power too?
42:04 – Sample training structures that work
51:55 – Home vs. gym: how to decide
55:50 – Where to start with Megan's program

Episode resources:

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Philip Pape (00:01):
Your doctor just told you that you need to start
lifting heavy weights to preventbone loss, but you can barely
do a push-up and haven't been ina gym in years.
If that sounds familiar, thentoday my returning guest, the
amazing Megan Dahlman, is goingto help you by revealing why
this well-meaning medical adviceis actually setting women up
for failure and injury.

(00:21):
You'll learn all aboutosteosarcopenia and why it's
becoming an epidemic among womenover 40, as well as surprising
truths about weighted vests andother strategies that are often
marketed for menopause.
Most importantly, you're goingto learn the minimum effective
dose of resistance training thatactually works for beginners,

(00:41):
without the intimidation oroverwhelm that keeps so many
women stuck on the sidelines,even though they absolutely need
to strengthen those bones andmuscles.
Welcome to Wits and Weights,the show that helps you build a

(01:02):
strong, healthy physique usingevidence, engineering and
efficiency.
I'm your host, philip Pape, andtoday we're discussing a
critical health issue that'sflying under the radar for
millions of women.
My guest is returning to theshow for her third appearance
Megan Dahlman, a certifiedstrength and conditioning
specialist with over 17 years ofexperience coaching women over

(01:23):
40.
You might remember her frompast episodes where we discussed
midlife belly fat and reducingback pain and joint inflammation
.
I'll throw those links in theshow notes.
Megan holds a degree inexercise science and specializes
in helping women navigate thephysical challenges of midlife
with sustainable strengthtraining.
Pain-free mobility that's herspecialty.

(01:44):
She has an amazing YouTubechannel on these topics and
today she's here to discussosteosarcopenia.
Osteosarcopenia a condition ofsimultaneous bone loss and
muscle loss that affects over aquarter of women over 50.
You're going to learn why thestandard advice of just lift
heavy is missing nuance andcontext and you might be

(02:06):
surprised to hear that on thisshow, especially if you've never
trained before how to build afoundation of strength safely
and progressively.
And, of course, what thescience says about the minimum
effective dose needed to protectyour bones and muscles as you
age.
Megan, my friend, welcome backto the show.

Megan Dahlman (02:23):
Philip, it is so good to be here.
I love chatting with you.
I feel like we always get intosome phenomenal conversations,
whether it's going down rabbitholes, I always feel like we
have so much fun chattingtogether.

Philip Pape (02:35):
We do.
I mean, that's why we chattedfor so long before we even hit
record.
Today we have a good time andlisteners are going to learn a
ton today I know I am as welland let's just start right off
the bat defining what the heckwe're talking about when we say
osteosarcopenia.

Megan Dahlman (02:50):
Well, this is what is sometimes called the
hazardous duo.
This is the hazardous duo, soit's kind of a newly described
syndrome that really highlightsthe fact that your muscles and
bones are a unit.
They don't work in isolation,they go together.
You can't have a healthy bonewithout healthy muscle.

(03:15):
You can't have a healthy musclewithout bone to be there
supporting it.
So it's kind of recognizingthat muscles and bones coexist,
and so osteosarcopenia is thedegradation of that muscle bone
unit, and so these are twochronic musculoskeletal
conditions that are associatedwith aging, and they're both

(03:38):
accelerated in menopausal women,which is a little
nerve-wracking.

Philip Pape (03:43):
Yeah, it's nerve-wracking, especially the
degree to which that happens dueto the differences in the sexes
and the hormones, and we shouldget into that.
So this is interesting.
Osteosarcopenia do you know offthe top of your head?
Is this term referred to in theliterature, or is this a fun
portmanteau that we're using?

Megan Dahlman (03:57):
You know, literature is starting to refer
to it because if we go back toabout 2017, that's where this
word starts to pop up and someof them are using it in slight.
They might say sarco,osteoporosis or osteosarcopenia,
but we're starting to seeexperts and researchers clump

(04:18):
them together because the moreresearch they're doing, the more
they're realizing like theseare so closely tied for both
biomechanical and biochemicalreasons, that we kind of have to
have them both in theconversation always, and so my
hope is that we start to seethis term be more as a syndrome,

(04:39):
because I think, especiallywith doctors and prescribers and
clinicians that are helpingpeople with one thing or the
other, whether it's sarcopeniaor osteoporosis if we can start
to show people like these thingsare really connected, I think
we're going to get betteroutcomes.

Philip Pape (04:57):
Yeah, I totally agree, because you can't.
Especially when someone asksabout a lifting regimen or how
do I support my aging, and wetalk about muscles by themselves
, you know you get a lot of sortof objections in the head like,
well, I'm not trying to buildmuscles, I'm not trying to
improve my physique, I'm nottrying to maybe even get
stronger Although we should allbe trying to get stronger, in my

(05:18):
opinion.
And then when you say, well,what about bone density?
Oh yeah, that's extremelyimportant for me as a woman is
bone density.
You know, my mother hadosteoporosis and everybody was
on Bonivo when I was a kid andwhatever, and it's like the
connecting the two makes sense.
And you mentioned both thebiomechanics and I think you
said hormones or what did?

Megan Dahlman (05:36):
you say Biochemical.

Philip Pape (05:38):
Right Chemical.
So talk about that.
Where's the interdependencebetween those Talk?

Megan Dahlman (05:43):
about that?
Where's the interdependencebetween those?
So mechanically, so when amuscle is used, when it's
pulling against a bone, so whenthere's certain mechanical
forces applied to the bone abovea certain threshold okay, so
there is a little bit of athreshold that you got to be
above it can actually stimulatemore bone synthesis in that area

(06:05):
.
That's why strength training isso magical, and I know we're
going to get into that later butstrength training pushes and
pulls against the bone along thefull length of the bone in
multiple planes of motion,versus like just impact or
vertical jumping type of stuff.
You're really just creatingimpact along the bone in one
vertical plane.
So we want these mechanicalforces to be pushing, pulling

(06:28):
against the bone because all ofthose contact points or those
attachment points on that bone,it will be stimulated to create
more bone synthesis.
So that's the mechanical side ofthings.
But then we also have thisbiochemical side.
So there's some complex likeendocrine mechanisms that are

(06:51):
actually signaled when yourmuscles are loaded.
So muscle loading induces thiscascade of biochemical signals
that are necessary for bonegrowth and remodeling, which is
really key because of all you'reever doing is, you know, taking
the bone evo or theosteoporosis supplement or

(07:13):
whatever it might be, You're notgetting the benefit of those
muscle loading chemical signalsthat are necessary for bone
growth and remodeling.
So it's kind of all of thesetwo things combined that creates
a really healthy bone muscleunit.

Philip Pape (07:31):
That's really good.
I'm going to be using thatgoing forward, megan, because we
talk about muscle being anendocrine organ and how.
I think it's one of the lesspaid attention to organs.
In fact, we know in medicaltraining it's hardly, it's
almost an afterthought comparedto the other systems like
cardiopulmonary systems andwhatnot.
Right Cardiac health, but notlike muscle-centric medicine or

(07:51):
health.
But what you just said is thatthere are signals from the
muscle that affects bone growth.

Megan Dahlman (07:56):
Yeah, and here's the craziest thing too.
One more study I read said thatin individuals with fractures
so someone who gets a bonefracture let's say it's not an
osteoporotic type of fracture,like they just break a bone
somehow Healing times arequicker in those who have more
muscle mass.
This has been repeatedlydemonstrated that the presence

(08:18):
of healthy muscle tissue is apositive factor for fracture
healing.
Isn't that wild?

Philip Pape (08:25):
It is.
It is wild.
I mean, there are so many ofthese little surprises about
muscle and how they translate toother systems.
Even the act of training willsend signals to fat cells and
help you be more efficient andburn more fat and burn more
calories, irrespective of howmuch muscle you have, even just
the act of it.

Megan Dahlman (08:44):
Everything is communicating, nothing exists in
its own organ.
Like, your muscles are not aseparate organ that you have to
do something for your musclesand then your bones are this
separate organ that you have todo something specific but, like
everything, works together,collaboratively and communicates
together all the time.

Philip Pape (09:01):
I feel like Eastern medicine has known this for a
long time the way they discussthe body.
So let's hit on some of thepoints you mentioned.
The threshold for bonesynthesis Is that like a percent
of your max type threshold?
We're talking about loading, oris there some other measurement
for that?

Megan Dahlman (09:16):
This is hard to nail down.
This is really.
It's going to be relative toeverybody, to each individual
person.
So really it's above whateveryour baseline is of what your
body does on a normal basis.
So when we go into a trainingsession, we're usually doing if
we're following a goodprogressive training program

(09:36):
we're usually going to be at orabove a certain threshold.
Maybe not every single workoutsession, but frequently we're
doing something, we're pushingthe limits just a little bit,
and that's the type of scenariothat's going to stimulate
significant amount of muscle andbone growth.
But we know that even trainingbelow you know that progress

(09:59):
threshold is still valuable.
So it's not like every time youshow up for a workout we're
going to have to like be maxingout every single time in order
to see positive benefits.
That's not the case.
But as long as the training isabove basically sedentary levels
, you're going to be seeing somegreat benefits.
So as far as like this is thethreshold, it's too inconclusive

(10:23):
to say specifically what thatthreshold is and it's going to
be different for each person inevery workout situation too.

Philip Pape (10:30):
Yeah, and there's an overlap with the same things
that drive your training formuscle growth anyway, in that
you get two for one.
You get two for one.
We did an episode calledstrength versus hypertrophy you
guys should definitely checkthat out where we talked about
some actual numbers that seem tocorrelate with strength and
muscle growth, and the bareminimum seemed to be 35% of your

(10:51):
maximum, only because anythinglighter than that it's like you
could just go all day and itdoesn't stress you, whereas 65%
starts to affect your centralnervous system and your strength
.
And I'm wondering where thebone development threshold is.
And I ask that because, forexample, dr Mike Isertil talked
about.
Somebody said what do yourecommend for people over 50?

(11:12):
And he's like well, I'drecommend big systemic lifts,
fairly heavy, because of thebone density benefits.
But we need to get into now,megan, what heavy means.
We don't want to scare peopleaway when doctors say just lift
heavy.
Let's get into that whole hottopic because that's a good
segue for this.

Megan Dahlman (11:28):
I feel like whenever we hear lift heavy,
that lands on two differenttypes of ears.
It lands on the people who arealready lifting heavy and really
enjoy it and they're like, yes,I'm already doing it, I've got
great bones.
And then that recommendationlands on the ears of people that
are have only ever done cardioor walking or Pilates or yoga

(11:49):
and they're scared and theydon't know what to do.
And there's really rarelyanybody in between.
And so when doctors prescribelifting heavy, yes, okay, so
bones and muscles do need someheavy load Like we were talking
about that above a certainthreshold to be able to
stimulate this synthesis, thismuscle growth and bone growth

(12:10):
kind of simultaneously.
But we have to consider thatyour body, like we said, nothing
exists in a vacuum.
Your bones and muscles don'texist in a vacuum, but also
there are also, like discs inyour spine, tendons and
ligaments, the rest of herendocrine system, your
inflammatory system that we'realso having to contend with.

(12:32):
So for particularly women inmidlife that are already dealing
with higher levels ofinflammation, that can make your
soft tissues, like thosetendons and fascia and other
soft tissues in your body, moresensitive to inflammation,
jumping straight into liftingheavy can be extremely

(12:53):
problematic if you don'tapproach it properly.
This is where we get a lot ofreports of suddenly I have
plantar fasciitis or I've gotelbow tendonitis out of the blue
.
I wanted to start lifting heavyand I don't know what to do.
I had a phone call with aclient a few weeks ago and she
got put she this is the exactscenario.

(13:14):
She saw her doctor.
The doctor's like your bonenumbers don't look good.
You need to start lifting heavy.
So she went home, hopped online, googled heavy lifting program
for women.
Found.
Hopped online, googled heavylifting program for women.
Found a heavy lifting program.
Had her lifting heavy overhead,she slipped three discs in her
neck and dealt with migrainesfor the next four months.

(13:43):
No-transcript.
A lot of these women and menmight not have a background in
strength training andunderstanding their body
mechanics and understanding bodycontrol and how to do a basic
body weight squat, let alone puta barbell on their back or have
them do a deadlift, gettinginto a bent over position, which

(14:05):
is essentially a deadlift intoa hip hinge.
It's really a technicallycomplicated position if you've
never been taught how to do that, and so if someone is gonna go
into the gym and walk up to abarbell, they're not gonna know
how to do it properly andthey'll end up getting hurt.
And so it's such a nuancedconversation where, yes, our end

(14:27):
goal might be let's get you tothe point where you are
eventually lifting heavy foryour bones.
That doesn't mean that that'swhere you should start.

Philip Pape (14:36):
And you know what?
I know we're talking aboutwomen here, but men it's the
same thing.

Heather (14:41):
I will say, and I have personal experience.

Philip Pape (14:43):
You talk about form .
I consider myself fairlyathletic and I was in the
physical therapy office theother day and you could see
someone who is the opposite ofthat which I've heard called
motor morons.
No, no offense to the guy wherehe was being asked.

Megan Dahlman (14:56):
Okay that's what I like to say.
There's a lack of bodyawareness and coordination.

Philip Pape (15:02):
Clumsy, yeah yeah, you know, athletically clumsy,
and you'll give someone aninstruction and without the
guidance, they, they just can'tget it right.
Like he was being told toretract a scapula, like hold his
elbows locked.

Megan Dahlman (15:14):
He's like I don't know what retract means, let
alone what my scapula are.

Philip Pape (15:17):
Yeah, exactly and even when described the right
way, he's like bending hiselbows and everything.
And so some people, even ifthey mean well, men or women,
women are going to have thatissue.
And you're right, connectivetissue is highly underspoken
about with older individualsbecause they do get more pliable
and sensitive.
You talk about inflammation.
Oh, I did a whole episode justabout inflammation related to

(15:39):
lifestyle, because that'susually what causes it, not food
, you know, not eating seed oils, it's the whole lifestyle of
chronic stress and sitting andthings like that.
I recall myself having shoulderissues and I tried to get back
to it too quickly with theheaviness because a little bit
of ego, because I had been ableto lift heavier, but at that
point in my life I really neededto back it down and then

(16:02):
progress there.
And so what happened is, youknow, all that stress on the
tendons as I'm pressing,pressing, pressing, boom, I got
bursitis.
You know, a few weeks later andit's always a lag right, never
does necessarily happen the nextday.
It takes a little whilesometimes.
So everything you're saying,people should listen up when we
say heavy, like I think, yes,heavy relative to what you need
to progress, per what Megan saidearlier, but not so heavy with

(16:26):
bad form, without guidance foryour situation that you cause
all of these issues.

Megan Dahlman (16:32):
So a hundred percent, a hundred percent, ease
into it, always build up, like,ask yourself, where am I at
right now?
Like, sure, you might have along training history.
In the past.
I've got a number of women thatI work with that they, you know
, used to do orange theory for aperiod of time or that one time
that they had that CrossFit gymmembership and we're doing that

(16:55):
.
And so 10 years later they'relike I really need to get back
to doing that and I want to justlike hold them by the shoulders
and shake them a little bit andsay that's not where your body
is right now.
So if you try to go back to that, those are all probably
wonderful moves.
Sure, maybe we could get there,maybe.
But what does your body needright now?

(17:17):
Where are you starting at now?
Where's your conditioning levelright now?
Do we need to work on yourtechnique?
Do you have shoulder bursitisthat we've got to deal with at
the moment?
First, like, where are you atright now?
And you're, you hit the nail onthe head when you said my ego,
because that's usually the thingthat gets in the in the way of
doing the proper program thatour body needs at this moment.

Philip Pape (17:38):
So get your ego aside and and do like train
smart for where your body isright now so that leads to the
natural question people, okay,what do I do if it's not
CrossFit or 45, which it's not?
It's not.
I can tell you it's not.
That adds its own stress andbad form and everything to speed

(17:58):
and everything else.
A woman in her forties orfifties, totally new to this.
We don't know if she's a motormoron or not.
Just kidding.
We all are kind of yeah, ofcourse of course she could reach
out to you, go check out yourYouTube videos and do your
program, but I mean principlewise what's a good place to

(18:20):
start?

Megan Dahlman (18:21):
Body weight only, strength training moves.
Just start by moving your ownbody through the basic moves
Like learn how to do a squatproperly.
Do and start doing that.
Get your knees familiar withsquatting, your hips familiar,
your ankles familiar withsquatting.
Not just one rep, but get themfamiliar with doing eight of
them in a row.
Do hip hinges.
That's that deadlift actionthat we're talking about.

(18:41):
Get familiar with that movement.
It's going to start to trainyour hips, your glutes, your
core in a collaborative way.
Start to do some of these fullbody movements where you don't
need any equipment that might bedistracting the moment you try
to hold on to something or evenput a vest on or have some sort

(19:02):
of equipment in the picture likea band, like it's just
distracting and it's going todistract you from your own
technique.
I recommend having a mirrornearby or even setting up your
phone to record yourself.
I did a workout with a friendover the weekend.
They were visiting us and shewas like do you want to work out
together?

(19:22):
I'm like when am I ever goingto say no to that?
So we worked out and I, I, Ipaused her a handful of times.
She's not a trainer.
So I paused her a handful oftimes, just getting into the
bent over position.
I'm like, wait, wait, wait, setthe weights down but freeze
frame.
And I took a picture of her andI showed her and in her, like
just bent over position, likeyou're doing a row, her spine

(19:44):
was completely rounded and forher it felt correct.
Like her body feedback wassaying this is right.
And I said, okay, we got to getyou more neutral, which
actually means like a little bitof curvature at your low back.
And she's like, oh my gosh,that feels so weird.
So when you're first startingout, your body might not be

(20:06):
giving you the correct feedback.
So if we're adding a lot ofweights and machines and stuff
to the picture, it's just a lotthat's confusing.
So start with body weight onlystrength training moves.
It's the easiest way to start,like lowest barrier to entry too
.

Philip Pape (20:21):
And you just you.
You explained why, right, whichis important because there's a
lot of noise out there when itcomes to training.
You know people will hear metalk about barbells, but they
don't see behind the scenes howyou know, I want to show
somebody how to set theirfootstands first and then how to
sit back down into it and likeall the steps you're talking
about where.
Look at your from the side,look at yourself from 45 degrees

(20:42):
and just evaluate each of thesethings and listen.
When I learned to squat I try Iwatched a million videos, I did
a million body weight squatsand I still didn't have it quite
right until I worked with acoach who said you know what?
Here's some subtle things thatyou still need to fix.
It's a skill right, it's a skill, and so the proprioception, I
think, is the fancy word forlike, your awareness of your
body in space.
Again, if, whether you areathletic or not, if you've

(21:04):
trained yourself through badhabits like a bad golf swing, it
could feel fine.
And habits like a bad golfswing, it could feel fine.
And you know back flexion andall that people just don't quite
understand until you explain itto them.
So, yeah, these are good.
Recording yourself is probablyone of the best tips you just
said.
People don't do it enough.

Megan Dahlman (21:19):
People don't do it enough.
They're in their excuses.
I just don't like what I looklike on me.
It's like okay, no, you're notshowing this to anybody else,
you don't have to show it.
You can delete it immediatelyafter the fact.
But I don't want you movingincorrectly.
And one thing I always say isnever train bad technique.
So if you're using badtechnique and if you continue to

(21:42):
use it over and over again,you're training your body that
that's how you're supposed to doit.
So even if, like, you'repushing really hard or you're
doing an exercise and you'regetting to the final few reps
and you have to contort yourbody to make it happen, you're
like I get that question a lotLike, should I just push through
?
And my answer is never trainbad technique.

(22:03):
You're going to start to teachyour body that this is how we do
it and this is okay to do it.
It's always going to put you atrisk.
So the only way to know ifyou're training bad technique is
if you have something that'sgiving you feedback, whether
it's a trainer, that you'reworking with a mirror or
recording yourself on your phone.
Just do it once or twice andyou'll be like oh my gosh, that

(22:26):
helped so much A hundred percent.

Philip Pape (22:29):
Yeah, and you mentioned how, if you yeah you
train your bad habits, thatbecome worse.
I would add to that that yourleverages in your
cross-sectional area on yourbody, they change based on your
weight as well.
Your body can be changing too,if you're like eating more, or
maybe you're dieting and fatwhatever, and when you add more,
when you do start adding weightI know we weren't even talking

(22:51):
about that, but once you do addweight, that changes the center
of gravity and then heavierweight changes it more.
So it never ends Like you haveto learn how you respond in your
different body types andweights.
Do you agree with that?

Megan Dahlman (23:04):
A hundred percent , and this is might be getting
ahead of myself, but I know wewere planning on talking about
weighted vests too.

Philip Pape (23:11):
Oh, I was going to go there next because you
mentioned it.
So, oh my gosh, so we can gothere now if you want.

Megan Dahlman (23:15):
but like this is often what happens when you just
strap on a weighted vest toyour body to do strength
training workout.
I like the idea, but you haveto be careful that that's not
altering your technique, becauseyour center of gravity just
changed.
It probably moved a littlehigher on your body and your
balance kind of that yourability to control this added

(23:38):
weight that's now wrapped aroundyour body it's going to change.
So just be aware that when youdo put on a weighted vest for a
workout like a strength trainingworkout, it could be altering
your mechanics.
So be aware, yeah.

Philip Pape (23:53):
So?
So then you have to put on aweighted calf weights.
My daughters and I were playingJenga yesterday and we got to
the highest we ever got.
It was like there were likethree rows that didn't, that
didn't, that weren't down to,just the two blocks.

Megan Dahlman (24:07):
Just the two little ones.

Philip Pape (24:08):
Yeah, right, and but the very top of the tower
gets so wobbly because thatcenter of gravity, so like when
you try to take stuff from thetop it's like that.
So your weighted vest is justshifting that gravity up, moving
your gravity up you know,unless you have a big butt or
like really developed those legsin parallel or something.

Heather (24:26):
So speaking of the weighted, vest then, like there
it's.

Philip Pape (24:28):
it's a big trend right now.
Yep, I've been into rucking foryears and I've recommended that
to folks, but what's going onwith the weighted vest?
Like let's talk about it.

Megan Dahlman (24:38):
So I feel like, unfortunately, right now the
weighted vest trend is is reallycatching on in the
perimenopausal space.
So the women between the ages oflike 40 and 50, it's now this
like social media joke like youknow, you're 40 when you're
walking with a weighted vest andI feel like going on weighted
vest walking is being used as aget out of jail free card.

(25:00):
If I just walk with a vest, I'mdoing what I need to for my
bones and I don't need to do anystrength training.
Most studies looking at theeffectiveness of walking with a
weighted vest are not veryconclusive studies and in fact
they're usually comparing onegroup who didn't exercise at all

(25:21):
with another group that walkedwith a weighted vest.
Obviously, the group thatwalked with a weighted vest saw
some improvements in their bonedensity.
There's one interesting studythat I liked a lot that showed a
no walking group, a walkinggroup, walking with a weighted
vest.
I'm like, okay, now we've got agood study that actually

(25:42):
compares things properly.
There was no difference in bonedensity between the
non-weighted vest and theweighted vest group.

Philip Pape (25:49):
The only difference was improved balance
interesting, and is that that'sbecause the load was just not
enough?

Megan Dahlman (25:56):
the load was higher on their body.
So now they had this like newproprioception thing that they
had to deal with, but when itcame to bone density, it didn't
really it's too.
It's no, if you're rucking uphills, you know that's.
That's really challenging.
I mean, what is a classic rec?
That's 40 pounds, right.

Philip Pape (26:17):
Yeah, I mean 25 to 50 is usually what I recommend
yeah, yeah.

Megan Dahlman (26:21):
So the the thing is like all these studies showed
walking weighted vests, butthen when you compare that to
what just strength training doesfor your bones, it pales in
comparison.
Like strength training, like itblows them all out of the water
.
Nothing can even come close.
The wet walking with a weightedvest does not even come close,

(26:43):
and so that's the beef I havewith walking with a weighted
vest.
If that's all you're doing,you're not doing your bones as
great of a favor as you thinkyou are.
If it means that it's kind of afun, newfangled thing that's
getting you active Now youpreviously had been sedentary,
but now it's motivating and funnewfangled thing that's getting
you active.
Now you previously had beensedentary, but now it's
motivating, and there's thisplacebo effect of like I think

(27:06):
it's doing something good andthat's compelling you to
exercise more.
I am all here for that.
But when it comes to bonedensity because that's what a
lot of them feel like that'swhat we're doing this for it's
not doing as much as you think.
Like very marginal strengthtraining is going to do way more
.

Philip Pape (27:26):
Yeah, and then the way to vest to me, if you
compare it to rucking, mayprovide a tiny boost in.
You know how many calories youburn per mile, or something like
that.
Very small, very little.
And then it's associated it'sused to be associated with, like
military or CrossFit styleworkouts where you just toss
that on and run up hills andstuff and that's cool, it's all
fun and games.
But, yeah, strength training.

(27:46):
So let's talk about strengthtraining then.
Yeah, the next level.
So you've got your movementpatterns safe and neutral.
Back, you're learning how touse your ankles, hips, your
joints, you know, getting thatblood flow which feels great
when you start lifting.
It's just so good.
Guys, if you haven't lifted,what are you waiting for?
This is wits and weights.
This is Megan Dolan.

(28:10):
You've got to be lifting.
And so what does the researchor your experience tell us about
minimum effective dose once youstart loading and progressing?
And that could be eitherintensity and load, or we could
be talking volume or frequencyor all of those.

Megan Dahlman (28:20):
Sure.
So first of all, the mostimportant factor is not
necessarily dosage butconsistency.
So the positive impacts on yourbone and muscle mass really
really are going to come down tohow consistent are you with
this thing?
Because you could have onereally like dialed workout per
month.
But we know, I mean like that'san anecdotal thing, but that's

(28:45):
where a lot of people go Like ifI'm going to show up for a
workout, it's got to like all ofmy numbers have to be spot on
and perfect.
And then for the perfectionistlistening they're like well, if
I can't do that, then I'm notgoing to do anything at all, and
so their consistency withtraining is nowhere where it
should be.
So the most important factorfirst is just your consistency.

(29:08):
But it is generally agreed thata minimum of two 30-minute
resistance training sessions perweek is ideal.
So we can see some benefits,some progress, some benefits
with two 30-minute strengthtraining sessions per week and
muscle change.

(29:30):
So stimulation on the muscles,so some adaptations for the
muscles can be seen in a widerange of repetition ranges.
So forever we were alwayssaying like you gotta like don't
do 20 rep things.
You know, make sure that you'restaying in the six to eight rep
or six to 12.
But we do see some adaptationsin those higher rep ranges too.

(29:53):
Now are they the adaptationsthat we want?
You know, we're getting somemore endurance capacity in those
muscles, which is really greatfor those muscles.
But if we're wanting to reallysee some muscle growth, like
that hypertrophy, usually thesix to 12 repetition range is
great, which means that if sixis the number you're aiming for,
when you get to five it shouldfeel tough and that number six

(30:16):
should feel really challenging.
But with good technique right,you might only have one rep left
in the tank, maybe two withgood technique.
So that's kind of the rangethat we're looking for.
We can see improvements in aslittle as one set with an
exercise.
Two to three sets is great, butthe difference between so two

(30:39):
sets of an exercise issignificantly better than one
set.
So I'm saying like backwards oneset is good.
We see change, two sets evenbetter.
The difference between two andthree sets is pretty minimal.
We do still see some changes,but it's not as exponential as
the difference between one andtwo sets, difference between

(31:01):
zero and one sets.

Philip Pape (31:05):
I think we know the difference, infinite difference
, of anything yeah.

Megan Dahlman (31:08):
Infinite difference.
And then it really comes downto the greatest changes once
again, our consistency, butmoving every day, somehow.
So even those people that arestrength training, lifting
weights or doing some form ofstrength training, twice a week,
maybe three times a week, thoseother days that you're not
lifting weights, stay moving.

(31:29):
Stay working your body.
It doesn't need to be a fullworkout.
It could be going for a walk,could be doing some mobility
work, some of that supplementarystuff, which I highly recommend
, but stay moving every day.
And that's what's going to thatconsistency over time, with
these little bouts of higherresistance.

(31:51):
That's where we're going to seesome great impact.
Perfect.

Philip Pape (31:54):
So I love everything you said because it's
accessible and it's a placethat anyone can start and go
from zero to zero to hero, go upto a really great level of
performance, and I oftenrecommend at least two set two
sessions as well for older folksgenerally I hate to say older,
but you know, the older we getjust because of recoverability
and your schedules andpracticality and all that and

(32:17):
then you get into it right, andthen you're going three, maybe
four days a week.

Megan Dahlman (32:20):
You get into it right, and then you're going
three, maybe four days a week toget into it.
I'm usually at three per week.
It feels good for me.
I like three Usually.
My third one might not be quiteas heavy and might be a little
bit more of the body weightstrength training stuff, but for
me personally, I lift at leasttwo days a week, usually three,

(32:40):
and that feels really good to me.
Yeah, yeah.

Philip Pape (32:43):
Yeah, it has to, and it's got to work with your
sleep schedule and how long yoursessions can be and if you're
commuting to the gym and allthat stuff Exactly.
So let's, let's drill down alittle bit deeper, because we
talked about maybe nerding outon stuff and if Phil ever put
you on the spot cause I knowthere's a lot of science out
there that neither of usprobably know all of it I want
to talk about that.
I had a keyword in here fromwhen I was researching for the

(33:04):
show osteogenic, which is likethe level at which bone
adaptation occurs.
It's osteogenic, Cool word andthere were three things that
came up and I want to understandyour points on it and whether
we're leaving something on thetable or not.
The first one is load, which wealready slightly touched on.
But I have seen a lot ofresearch that says, like, real

(33:27):
adaptation occurs at a fairlyhigh level of your max, like 85%
, you know, like even beyondjust the strength threshold,
Like what are your thoughts onthat?
Should someone at some pointthink about getting into that
regime or is it more of a onepercenter?

Megan Dahlman (33:38):
If someone enjoys that.
I think that a lot of peoplethat actually are, you know,
have gotten an osteopeniadiagnosis.
They're typically midlife orolder, where their health up to
that point, you know, theyhadn't been lifting weights.
So that's why they're here,that's why they're in this

(34:00):
situation.
The idea of lifting at such ahigh percentage of max feels
really scary and you know theymight never want to try to do
that.
So what's interesting is I'vehad a handful of clients who've
gone through my year program andstarted out with certain bone
density numbers that were prettymuch borderline osteoporosis,

(34:23):
like right in those beginningnumbers of osteoporosis, and
that was really scary for them.
And these are women in theirlike early fifties just going
through my programs, which wedon't lift really really I
always encourage them to pushthemselves, but everyone's level
of what they push themselves isa little bit different.
I don't give them a set numberor anything.

(34:44):
It's just like we're going todo eight reps.
Make it hard, like let's go alittle harder than what you did
last week.
After a year pretty much everyone of the women that has been
in my programs has seensignificant improvements in
their bone density and many ofthem have been able to
completely reverse theirdiagnosis and they're no longer
even considered osteopenia.

(35:04):
So that's a really good, likejust example of you don't have
to.
You can still see benefits inyour bones, like dramatic
benefits in your bones.
You know, with all else, otherfactors your nutrition has
improved, your stress loads haveimproved, like there's so many
other things at play here.

(35:25):
But you don't have to if youdon't want to.
And lifting heavy can look verydifferent.
It doesn't have to look likebarbells, it can look like
dumbbells, it can look likethings you machines, it can look
like kettlebells and whateveryou have access to.
So it's such a nuancedconversation.
So I like lifting heavy like asuper heavy loads, but I know

(35:49):
that a lot of people just don'tlike doing that.

Philip Pape (35:52):
Yeah, and I wanted to challenge it a little bit for
you to give that answer,because there there's there's
always carve outs and nuance,and I know there's research on
I'll call it frailty, and peopledon't want to think of
themselves as frail, but ifyou're on the border of
osteoporosis, you have a senseof frailty in your body.
It doesn't mean you are frailor that you can't go after it
and like reclaim that power,right, yes, and where you could

(36:12):
go at a much lower load and get,as long as you're using
progressive overload.
So then that leads to thesecond piece of this, which is
explosiveness, or velocity, orlike force over time type
training, or what do they callstrain rate.
The strain rate, I think, iswhat it's called where you have
it could be jumping and boundingin there, but it could just as
well being when you're doing thelift on the concentric, you

(36:32):
explode, which we want to doanyway for muscle and strength.
Yeah, do you?
Do you focus on that a lot ordoes it just come along for the
ride?

Megan Dahlman (36:39):
Yeah, I put it in a category of power development
and so really any time thatyou're contracting at a faster
pace than just your regularrhythm.
This is so important for injuryprevention, especially for
those that are getting older andmight be frail.
So we do have evidence thatimpact work is very valuable for

(37:02):
bone density.
I love doing the type of impactwork in a strength training
setting or in a training setting, versus going out and going for
like a three mile run.
Yes, that's impact, but that's alot of repetitive in the same
motion, same plane of motion.
It can be.
It can sometimes create a lotof wear and tear on already

(37:22):
damaged joints and exacerbatecompensation patterns that
someone might have.
So doing the highly repetitivelike impact work is not
something I'm a huge fan of forsomeone who has osteoporosis and
wants to improve it, butincorporating some of that
higher speed power work, I loveit for multiple reasons.

(37:44):
However, we can only do it ifyou already have a really thick
foundation of strength, so Iwant to know that your mechanics
of doing a squat are perfectbefore we ever do a squat jump
or a box jump Like you got it.
I'm not going to make you do asquat jump if you can't even do
a proper squat, like that'ssquare one, you know, or

(38:05):
bounding.

Philip Pape (38:06):
It's like the Olympic lifts and CrossFit
people jump right into that.

Heather (38:12):
Hello, my name is Heather and I am a client of
Philip Pace.
Just six days after I startedthis cut, my family and I were
in a 7.9 magnitude earthquakehere in Adana, turkey.
As I tried to process the stressand trauma, my first instinct
was to say, oh, you've beenthrough something hard, this is
not a good time.
But instead I reached out to mycoach and he got me under the

(38:34):
bar that day and he helped mekeep my macros that day, and not
only did I realize that I wasdoing something fantastic for my
body, but I realized that I wasdoing something fantastic for
my mind and that it was going tohelp me keep the mental clarity
that I was going to need to getmy family through what really
has been a very difficult twomonths.
Here I am on the other side ofeight weeks, got my kids through

(38:56):
all the things that we havebeen through, and I weigh 12
pounds less than I did, and Igot a new PR on my bench press.
I have a long way to go andthere are still things that I
really want to accomplish, butnow I know that I can and I'm
really grateful.
Thank you, philip.

Megan Dahlman (39:12):
Everything is a progression.
So thinking like progressiveoverload, but also progressive
overload with the exerciseprogramming themselves, and this
is where we can nerd out onlike program design.
But if you're going to designand have a good program, you're
going to know that this exercisetoday, next month, is going to

(39:33):
progress into this variation ofit, which is going to progress
into that variation of it Reallygreat example I love to use is
I always teach the basic squatfirst, and then we progress to a
staggered squat where one footis just slightly more forward
than normal and we get good atthat, which is kind of this
offset stance, and then weprogress to a split squat.

(39:55):
So now we're starting to lookmore like a lunge.
We're not stepping yet.
You're not stepping in and out,your feet are still planted,
but now there's more balance.
Your hips have to workdifferently, your core has to
work, and then we add somestepping with it, like a reverse
lunge is usually the easiest.
Then we do a walking lunge,then we do a lunge in place and

(40:16):
then maybe we'll try a lungejump at the very end Awesome.
And then maybe we'll try alunge jump at the very end, you
know.
So like that's kind of how youwould properly progress up to
those higher power movements.
Now there's some movements thatare less risky.
You know a lot of medicine ballwork is not as risky like a
medicine ball slam, like justslamming that down no-transcript

(40:45):
.
And medicine ball is beautifulfor that, for a lot of that
power work, that for olderindividuals it can be fun and
it's not as dangerous.
But definitely something likeOlympic lifting, box jumping,
hurdle hopping, great for bones.
But let's build up to itproperly.

Philip Pape (41:02):
For sure.
But you mentioned reverse lunge.
I actually did some thismorning the safety squat bar,
and it had been a long time andit's your body gets detrained
from some of these movementswhere you're like, okay, I can't
go as heavy as I did last time,let me just take it easy,
because those quads are burning.
Yeah, one thing that came tomind when you're talking about
programming you talked aboutprogramming.
One thing I've been doing a lotlately and telling people about

(41:23):
is top set back offset, which is, you know, the top set is like
heavier, maybe a lower rep range, like four to six or six to
eight, and then you drop theweight by like 10 to 20% and
then your second set is eight to12 or 12 to 15 to kind of get
both the strength and thehypertrophy and limit it to two
sets.
So your sessions are kind ofshort and you really train hard
because you're only doing two.

(41:44):
So I'm tying it to everythingyou said about like what's
optimum and practical at thesame time.
Is two sets enough?
Is three days enough?
How can you get the rep rangesin, but also maybe test the
waters with heavy, all of that?
So what's like some of yourfavorite programming schemes
that are somebody listening,even if they are newer, they
don't get too overwhelmed.
They're like, okay, that'sinteresting I.

Megan Dahlman (42:04):
One of my favorite is circuits.
So I almost love programming incircuits, whether it's a
superset, so you just do twoexercises at a time.
I love that for like justmental focus.
A superset, I like to call themcouplets, so two exercises at a
time where you just kind of goback and forth.
Now you could do like twoexercises that compliment each

(42:26):
other like a push and a pull, oryou could really overload and
do two pushing style movementsat the same, you know, like a
chest press and a fly.
That's intense.
So that's one programming thingI really like to do.
I love descending reps.
I use that a lot.
So instead of changing the load, we keep the load the same, but

(42:48):
we do we knock off like a repeach set through.
That's one of my favorites.
Another thing to get that Ilove to program in a lot is just
doing time set, so focusing alittle bit more on just the
stamina of a movement.
You'll use an AMRAP, a littlebit AMRAP, so we could do it two

(43:08):
different ways.
Either Amrap style, so as manyreps as possible, like in a 30
second period of time.
Another thing I like to do is asmany rounds as possible in like
five minutes.
So we'll put five minutes onthe clock.
I'm going to give you fiveexercises.
You've got five reps of eachthing.
How many rounds in five minutescan you do?

(43:28):
So all of what I love about allof these everything, everything
is going to work.
It's all going to work, it'sall.
It's all going to create goodstimulus on your body.
The more variety, the better,but you don't want so much
variety that you can't focus andyou're not able to see progress
.
So I take things in like in amezzo cycle.

(43:49):
So four week stints of time,usually four to six weeks, is a
good mezzo cycle.
So within that period of time,with a singular workout, with
one workout like a workout, alike your Monday workout of the
week, let's stick with one stylefor that workout.
So this workout all cycle.
We're going to do descendingreps and or we'll do the AMRAP

(44:10):
thing for this particularworkout for the whole month and
then next month we might switchit up, we might.
So so you keep things, you keepvariety, but not so much
variety that it's random all thetime and you can't see progress
.
And I think that's where likeCrossFit lands in, where you
show up and you have a totallydifferent workout of the day.

(44:36):
I'm always trying to PR or evenorange theory.
You show up, you have adifferent trainer, you're always
doing these random classes.
There's no way to have a clearforward progress.
And when you have that forwardmovement, forward progress, you
you can give yourself a lightweek.
You know week one can be alight week and then you start
building, building, and then youhave your final week where
that's like all of your effort,and then you have that deload

(44:59):
week to follow that.
So it's so much happier andsafer on your body and it just
keeps it fun so much.

Philip Pape (45:08):
Yes, yes, you get bored, otherwise you get bored.

Heather (45:11):
Not getting bored.

Megan Dahlman (45:11):
This goes back to what we said in the beginning
of like, the most importantthing is just consistency.
So if we can keep your workoutslike really fun and like
interesting and unusual, I havesome clients that I work with
where they're like just make itdifferent a lot and I'm like
well, I'll make it differentevery four weeks, but it'll be

(45:33):
fun styles, so yeah.

Philip Pape (45:35):
Yeah, yeah, I agree .
Like I just ran an eight weekblock and now I'm running a new
one where the fun comes withinthe week.
Right, like within the sessionand within the week you can make
it fun, mix it up.
I don't want to.
I don't want you to ever thinkthe next day you look at your
training plan and say, ah,that's the day that we got on.
Like, you know, like I mean, weall have movements.
We are not huge fans of it,might, maybe, but then it has

(45:56):
like three other things wereally love, you know, and
you're like, okay, I can getthrough this.
You also mentioned the macrolevel.
We want the variety at themicro level.
We want the what, theconsistency, so you can progress
, which is its own fun,challenging thing.
Right, because then you go nextMonday.
You're like, okay, I just didthis.
My movement patterns are likelearning.
You know my body's learningthis.

(46:16):
Now I can probably push alittle harder and really figure
that out.
The superset thing is coolbecause there's one or two
things I've been doing lately.
Megan, I wanted to jump springoff of that.
One is adding a third set thatis just an AMRAP, but only like
15, 10 seconds after the secondset ended.
So you do your first set.

(46:36):
Take your two, three and fourminute rest.
You do your second set.
I'm sorry this is you could dothis with supersets or not, but
let's say you're doing asuperset and you're doing bicep
curls and tricep press downs.
You do your bicep curls, thenyou do bicep, then you do bicep,
then your tricep.
After that second set oftriceps, 10 seconds later you do
another, but an AMRAP.

Heather (46:57):
And it's like a way to test that you're actually
pushing to failure.

Philip Pape (47:00):
Yeah, with the same one.
Just with the second one tocheck yourself of whether you're
really training hard.

Megan Dahlman (47:08):
I like that.
I mean, I wouldn't do that allthe time.

Philip Pape (47:12):
Like.

Megan Dahlman (47:13):
I would not put that on like this is how I
always do this particularworkout.
I mean that's definitely gonnamax you, but I think that's a
unique way to really test and Ithink in my own workouts I do
that sometimes without sayinglike calling it anything.

Philip Pape (47:29):
Like.

Megan Dahlman (47:29):
I'll know it's my final set.
I'll be like I've got more inthe tank, so I'll just like keep
going until I feel like I'vemaxed out, because I know like
I'm not doing this exerciseagain today.
I feel like I've got some more.
I really want to push it, andso it probably is like an AMRAP
there at the end where you'rejust seeing how much of or just
maxing out in one way or another.

(47:49):
So, yeah, Another thing that Ilike to add onto the end of
workouts for a metabolic boostor metabolic finishers.
I don't know if you've ever usedthese, but this is great for
like a conditioning effect onthe end of like a strength
training workout, just like fiveminutes max, usually body
weight stuff.
Sometimes it's fun to do like astrength circuit, but it's

(48:12):
usually like a lighter load buthigh intensity boost, and it can
be like a timed circuit, youknow Tabata style thing, an
AMRAP thing, like three minuteson the clock.
How many of these can you do inthree minutes?
And those are kind of I use theword fun in quotes but you walk

(48:36):
away from that on the end ofyour workout and you're like,
Holy moly, that just pushed meover the edge.
And the metabolic finishers.
Those are fun.

Philip Pape (48:46):
Yeah.

Megan Dahlman (48:47):
More advanced athletes that I work with.

Philip Pape (48:49):
Yeah, it's just those.
You got to kind of earn youryour right to start doing those
right, like I think of BFR inthat category too, like blood
flow restriction training inthat same category.
What about, I guess, tied backto the bone density thing, how
beneficial are the multi-jointexercises versus isolation,
specifically for bone density,like, what is the advantage

(49:10):
you're getting?
Other than I could see load,because we can live more with
your whole body and maybe that'sthe thing, but there's also
central nervous system activitygoing on that's not happening
with like a bicep curl.
What are your thoughts on that?

Megan Dahlman (49:23):
I see the benefit of single joint movements for,
like total strength.
You know, if that's what you'reaiming for is to just like build
total, pure strength for thismuscle group.
For those that are moreconcerned about their bones,
like if that's top of mind, wepart of that conversation is

(49:44):
also functionality and and howyour body functions and moves,
your mobility, and somulti-joint movements are always
going to fit into thatconversation best.
So the majority of the peoplethat I work with are everyday
individuals that want to feeland move better in everyday life
.
They don't necessarily wantabsolute max strength, they want

(50:07):
to be strong for daily life andalso have really strong bones
and muscles.
So in that scenario then, themulti-joint movements are always
going to make the most sense.
So I primarily only programthose in because they're just so
functional, so effective andthey apply to their daily life.

(50:28):
Every so often we'll do like asingle, you know, just like a
chest press which is stillmulti-joint, by the way, a chest
press but it feels like asingular focus that mentally, is
really exciting to feelyourself be really strong with,
with a movement that's stable.
You're working kind of onemovement pattern at once.

(50:49):
You can always do the strongestthing with that and that feels
really good to explore yourabsolute strength.
But as far as overallfunctionality, the multi-joint
stuff is going to be the best.

Philip Pape (51:00):
Yeah, I would agree .
I think it checks the box withalmost any goal as the
foundation.
To be honest, that's the nicething about our discussion here
is, if you're listening,everything Megan talked about
you should be doing for all thegoals.
I'll be honest, Like, even ifyou want to build muscle and
physique, you're going to haveto have that as your foundation.
So it's great, because itdoesn't mean you have to go do

(51:20):
10 sports and spend 80 hours inthe gym, you know.
So, speaking of the gym, whatone?
One other question I did wantto make sure to come away with
is somebody's listening,especially women equipment and
access and going to the gym andthat whole environment.
That could probably be its owntopic.
But, like, do you have some youknow my top three tips for,

(51:40):
like, actually going to the gym?
Like what, what should they betrying to do?

Megan Dahlman (51:44):
at the gym or like.

Philip Pape (51:45):
If they are not, if they haven't started yet.
Should they be like, would yourecommend finding a local gym
first, or a home gym, or talkreaching out to you?
You know, obviously they shouldreach out to you.

Megan Dahlman (51:55):
Yeah, I mean everything I put together, I
make so that you can do it inyour bedroom if you need to.
So, when it comes to trainingand getting into a routine, the
lowest barrier to entry thebetter.
So if trying to find a gym, thelowest barrier to entry the
better.
So if trying to find a gym,signing up for a membership,

(52:17):
walking into an unfamiliar place, those are all huge barriers
that might prevent you from juststarting.
We need to just get you startedand get the ball rolling.
So most of the time I say juststart at home, in your living
room, in your bedroom.
I have people that work out intheir laundry room sometimes
because it's the only place thatthey don't get bugged by their
family.
No one wants to come to thelaundry room.
So just start where you are,even your location, and don't

(52:42):
feel like it needs to be thishuge production.
Some people really do enjoy andare motivated by the environment
of going to a gym and forcertain seasons of life that can
be really great.
You got a gym, you walk in,you're not going to do anything
else there, you're not going toget distracted, you're going to
get in, get your workout doneand move on with your day,

(53:04):
whereas at home sometimes youcan put it off because you've
got this task and this task.
So in those situations, if youlack focus and you keep losing
time to get it done at home,then carving out time and having
a gym set up or a gym to go tocan help with your focus.
But for most people I feel likejust getting to the gym is a

(53:26):
huge barrier.
So you can do full, highlyeffective workouts everything we
talked about at home withoutany equipment to start with.
So just get started.

Philip Pape (53:37):
And it saves time, and you mentioned carving out
time, so that would be.
The last barrier I can think ofis, even at home, I've got a
packed schedule, I'm a mom, I'moverwhelmed, whatever, and I get
this question all the time too.
But I'm always curious what,like, your top tip is for that.

Megan Dahlman (53:52):
You know psychological barriers like
they're in our mind, and carvingout time usually means like.
It means that the workout thatyou're wanting to do you're
maybe either dreading or it'sunfamiliar and you have this
impression that it's going totake you a really long time to

(54:14):
learn it and you don't want tolearn it.
Think of that dreaded feelingof learning a new board game.

Philip Pape (54:23):
You have to read the instructions.

Megan Dahlman (54:27):
It's really fun, it's really good, it won't take
that long to learn.
You're like I just want to dothe other game that I already
know how to do.
I don't want to waste my timelearning this.
The same thing happens with ourworkouts.
So usually, if a workout justhas a few movements that are
familiar to you, you don't feelnervous about them.
You're not afraid that you'regoing to mess up or hurt

(54:49):
yourself.
You don't feel nervous aboutthem.
You're not afraid that you'regoing to mess up or hurt
yourself.
Suddenly, you have more time inyour schedule to do a workout
like that because you're theexcuses that you thought were
the excuses weren't actually thereal excuses.
So usually the solution is tosimplify the routine that you're
trying to commit to.
If you continue to not havetime to do the workout, your

(55:10):
routine's probably toocomplicated.
It's probably overwhelming.
You and you're right, you don'thave time to do such an
overwhelming routine.
So just simplify it.
Make it just two exercises tostart with and build from there.

Philip Pape (55:25):
And so let's segue into our last piece here, our
last piece here.
With that, you've got a lot ofgreat content.
We have a YouTube channel we'regoing to link in the show notes
.
Is this something where youwould recommend a specific video
?
We can throw it in where you'regoing to learn your squat at
home tonight After you listen tothis podcast.
You could do it in your livingroom, throw it on the TV.
It'll take you 10, 15 minutesand that's it.

(55:48):
That's how you get started.
What do you think?

Megan Dahlman (55:50):
Totally All of the videos that I post on
YouTube are 15 minutes or lessthere we go.
I've got some great follow alongworkouts that are, you know,
either mobility focused If youfeel like I could just use a
stretch or strength training,body weight focused.
I try to post on my YouTubechannel something that you can
do in your living room if youdon't have any equipment, and so

(56:12):
it's a really great, fantasticplace to start.
And then if someone, ifsomeone's really wanting to
start a follow along routinethat progresses and isn't just
these like haphazard workoutshere and there, but actually is
a progressive program androutine, my jumpstart 30 program
is a really excellent place forit to start.

(56:32):
The first day is like eightminutes long, doesn't require
any equipment and we focus somuch on that technique.
And by month three so if theykeep moving through the courses
in my series, by the thirdcourse we're starting to lift
weights.
So for anybody listening,that's like I know I need to
lift weights.
I don't know anybody listeningthat's like I know I need to
lift weights.
I don't know if I should startthere, but I know I need to get

(56:53):
there.
My jumpstart series of programsis what's going to get you
there lifting weights safely.

Philip Pape (57:00):
And is there like a teaser video or a taste of it
from there that we can throw inthe show notes for folks?

Megan Dahlman (57:05):
Yes, Just go to VigeoFitcom, slash jumpstart.
And that's the info aboutJumpstart 30.

Philip Pape (57:12):
Yeah, All right, that's what we'll do.
Everybody, please check thatout.
Megan is awesome.
There's a reason I have had heron the show multiple times and
she's a font of not only thescience information but the
practical information andeverything she's saying.
I agree with it, so it's got tobe right.
So, yeah, go go check her out.

(57:33):
We'll, we can throw yoursocials in there, but I'd rather
them just hit you up at thejumpstart and check that out as
step one.
So anything else you want tosay, Megan, before we sign off.

Megan Dahlman (57:41):
Yeah, just come say hi everybody.
I'd love to meet you and Philip, thanks again for having me on
the show.
I love you.
This is great.

Philip Pape (57:48):
Always a pleasure, so much fun talking to you.
The time flies by, so thanksagain, megan, for coming on.
Wits and Weights Thank you.
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