August 2, 2021 • 29 mins
In this introductory episode, we'll explain why we're creating this podcast and address the concerns many leaders have surrounding the question of women's roles in church.
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Episode Transcript
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Travis Albritton (00:01):
Welcome to the women in the church podcast
where we take a fresh look whatthe Bible teaches about women in
church for the ICOC. I am onef your hosts, Travis Albr
tton. Joining me as we'll be te case for every episode is my p
rtner in crime Corina Espej. Hello Corina, let's just st
rt off this trailer episoe. I don't know if it'll be a qu
(00:23):
ck trailer, but it'll be a triler, kind of letting you k
ow what's to come and just kindof talk about like, what is
the ultimate question thatwe're hoping to address with
his podcast?
Corina Espejo (00:31):
Yeah, we really hope that in this podcast, we
can answer the question, whatdoes the Bible say about women
in the church?
Travis Albritton (00:38):
Yes, that is right. And we're going to be
definitely taking our time doinga thorough Bible study of this
topic of what does the Bible sayabout women in the church? And
we're going to also answer forthe questions that you have when
you clicked on this particularpodcast episodes like, can a
woman preach to a mixed audienceon a Sunday? Are there certain
(00:59):
ministry roles that arerestricted for men or women?
What part do spiritual giftsplay and how we serve the church
and other related questions likethat? So we're going to cover
all of those things on thispodcast. Now, one thing that I
think is important for us tosay, right off the bat, is that
both of us are members of theInternational troops of Christ.
(01:22):
Yeah. I grew up in the ICOC. Iknow. I did, too. Yeah. So we're
both Kingdom kids. And in thebest sense of the word. And, and
we love our fellowship, we loveour fellowship of churches. And
so this podcast is not simply,let's study out this topic in
question, just because we'recurious. But because we really
(01:46):
do want the ICOC to flourish anddo well, and to feel equipped to
handle questions like this. Whenthey come up.
Corina Espejo (01:55):
Yeah, I'm really as it feels like family talks. I
don't think we're coming here tothis is a movement. No, it feels
more like this is our family.
And like all families, we loveit. And there are going to be
things we don't like and thingsthat we just adore. So just keep
that in mind that this is familytalk.
Travis Albritton (02:11):
Right. And something that you will hear us
repeat often. Because it's true,is that we don't have a hidden
agenda with doing this podcast,we don't have a bone to pick we
don't have like something thatwe're trying to get to at the
end like a predetermined outcomethat we really do, you know, as
(02:32):
to individuals that have studiedthis, this question out in
depth. We just want to offer thethings that we've learned, and
the the understanding that we'vegained in studying out this
question, and create a resourcethat's tangible, palatable,
accessible, so that we you don'thave to go off and learn Hebrew
(02:52):
and Greek To answer thisquestion, and that you can feel
empowered and equipped. But Iknow when we first started
talking about this podcast, withministers, leaders, other
churches, and even just othermembers within the ICOC, that
there was a lot of concern aboutOh, what do you actually do in
(03:12):
here? Like, what's, what'sreally going on? Is there are
you hiding something behind thecorner, that this is just a
slippery slope to a bunch ofother questions and issues?
Corina, I know that youpecifically, like interviewed
eople, and like, captured theiresponses. Yeah. And so so let's
ind of walk through some ofhose concerns, so that we can
(03:32):
peak to them. And so if you'reistening to this podcast, you
an maybe be a little more atase about listening to these
pisodes, then maybe you mightave been just by seeing the
itle.
Corina Espejo (03:43):
Yeah. And I tried to get a wide range of people.
So as you hear me say, thesestatements, my best advice is
trying to hear these statementssimply from your church family,
I wouldn't try and put anyspecific demographic a part of
it because I did try and getwide as far as age, even just
background of growing up in thechurch or not growing up in the
(04:03):
church. Or even if we thinkabout these classically
progressive, traditional or evenethnicity and race, so don't
think oh, man, a millennial saidthat, or some old white dude
probably claim that like, No,just think about it as your
brother or sister in Christ issaying this and leave it at
that. So let's one of thebiggest concerns and I tried to
(04:24):
group them in three differentcategories. They naturally fell
into three topics. The first oneis that concern that talking
about gender or women's roles,is really culturally driven and
forced upon us as a church bodyby the world by the outside
world. For example, movementslike modern feminism and us
having to answer this opens upthe door for other topics that
(04:45):
us as a church, we are stilllearning and growing in but are
forced to speak on itprematurely. In other words, you
know, we're not ready to talkabout it with a certain
authority or knowledge, but wehave to because of what's
happening And I think for us, Idon't think that's neither bad
nor good. And that's not whatwe're trying to say. But it is a
general concern. So some ofthose straight from what people
(05:09):
said, I'm just gonna word forword say what they were the
feedback they gave. One personsaid, I don't like being wrong.
And it can be scary learningthat what I thought I knew,
isn't true, because I feel likemy security is taken away.
Another person said, I hope fora culture that is not limited to
the current debate around thetopic of gender roles, but
reaches back to the Bible forJesus heart, as well as a
(05:31):
possible teaching and examplesto frame how we think and act
surrounding this topic. And thelast one, it's a long one, but
it's a good one. It says my hopewould be that people could
approach this topic with arelatively open mind and not let
other worldly or humanisticaspects affect what God lays out
for us to follow. My prayerwould be that disciples have
(05:51):
compassion towards each other inthis situation, and that we
arrive at a decision we believeis best for our relationship
with God, and for the spreadingof his word.
Travis Albritton (06:00):
And I think that this is a valid concern,
you know, especially if you'relistening to this and you're a
leader, you're in ministry,leading small groups training
and equipping others, that it isa totally natural response to
say, okay, is this a questionthat we're answering on our
terms? Or is this somethingthat's being forced on us? And
do we have the, the capacity toanswer this wisely and
(06:24):
confidently? Yeah, I thinkthat's a totally valid concern.
You know, and to what Corinaaid, you know, it's neither
ood or bad to have that kind ofressure to feel like, okay, we
o need to give an answer. Theible does say we need to be
quipped, you know, to give annswer to those that ask us
bout the faith that we hold to,nd, you know, and just being a
art of life and walking on thearth is that people will have
(06:48):
uestions, and the culture thate live in, will bring questions
o us. And so those should note threatening, we should not
eel threatened, when the worldround us has questions about
hat does the Bible say abouthis? What does God think about
hat, but really see those mores opportunities that, you know,
ecause we serve a God that isrue, that is faithful, that is
(07:10):
onsistent, and that is hereorever? That we can have
onfidence that not only can weurn to the Bible for that
isdom that we need to answer,ut also to have a foundation
hat's biblically built, and toot feel like every time a
uestion comes up is anotherpportunity for people to lose
heir faith, which that can,specially when it's an
(07:30):
verwhelming amount of questionsll at once it can feel that
ay. It can feel kind ofnundating. And so hopefully,
ith this particular question,his podcast can help alleviate
ome of that concern that Yeah,aybe a lot of this question is
eing driven by the world arounds. But it doesn't mean that we
an't answer it on our terms byeturning to the Bible.
Corina Espejo (07:50):
Yeah. And you're not alone. You are definitely
not alone, if you feel that,that concern or that fear. Let's
move on to the next one. So thenext I'll say bucket of thoughts
on this question. It comes fromthis concept of we will oppose
God's design for partnershipbetween men and women to uphold
our human and sometimesunhealthy expectations of both
(08:13):
sexes. So again, this concept,it's kind of like the men will
be phased out, and their rolesin contravene contributions
devalued in the home or at thechurch. Or On the flip side,
again, straight from from one ofthese individuals, I think I get
scared that the word of God willjust be used to oppress women in
a space where women should beuplifted and listened to and
(08:33):
treated as equal, another personshared, I fear, feeling like God
created me as a woman to somehowbe weaker or not as capable as
someone else because of mygender. Still, another person
said, I have many hopes on thissubject. But my biggest wish for
all my friends is to be able toteach about God's word, not just
the boys, I find it ridiculousthat your gender can determine
(08:53):
what you do for God, as we are,are we Excuse me? Are we as
disciples willing to trust Godwhile learning and relying on
the historical and contextualroles of women in the church and
be willing to modify ourthinking if needed? Another
person said, How can we find thetrue meaning of Scripture
without changing it? And how dowe know if we've gone too far in
(09:14):
terms of interpreting, and thenthe last one, there's so much
power in my hands when it comesto interpretation? I want to be
able to discern what God's wordas he intended it, and some of
these are really, it can feelreally emotional and high charge
and I think part of the graceand mercy I think of us doing
this podcast is not pretendinglike people don't feel or think
(09:36):
or have these these thoughts.
But really just being able tolisten and not put any kind of
judgment on it, but just allowpeople to work it out.
Travis Albritton (09:46):
Yeah, and I think the the other thing that I
hear from this feedback and thejuiciest thoughts from
disciples, brothers and sistersfrom within our fellowship is a
desire to stay true to God'sWill when That is and that's
something that we've both heardacross the board something that
we both both, you know, signedup for when we said Jesus as
(10:08):
Lord is, you know, God, you justyou just tell me what what is
your desire for my wife? What isyour desire for us as a church?
And and give us the humility tolisten? And I think a big
concern from people enteringthis conversation of answering
this question is because, youknow, a lot of it can feel
culturally driven from the worldaround us is there can be a fear
(10:29):
or hesitation that even engagingin this question or talking
about this question is going tolead us away from God's design
his, his will, what we see inScripture, and instead lean on
human understanding and humanwisdom, because it feels right
in the broader context of theculture that we live in. And I
(10:50):
think that's totally a realconcern. But that should not
hold us back from being able to,to wade into this question on
our own terms, by reallystudying the Bible, seeing what
the Bible has to say what Godhas to say, through Scripture.
And know that ultimately, like,this is something that, as with
everything, we're continuing togrow and mature that, you know,
(11:12):
1020 years from now, we're gonnabe asking different questions,
we're gonna be growing indifferent ways. And so, so just
know from from Korea, and myselfand from the other individuals
that'll be contributing to thispodcast, that we're really
unified and leaning on the Bibleas our standard, and as the
foundation for everything thatwe talk about and discuss. You
know, and that we're going toreally let God speak to us,
(11:33):
instead of bringing ourexpectations about what we think
God should say. But rather justbe humble to the Bible. So that
way, you know, we can all beunified around that, and we can
all still have that sameconviction that, you know, we're
really gonna put the Bible firstwhen it comes to decisions and
stances that we take withquestions that we that we get
(11:54):
from the world around us andfrom within our churches as
well.
Corina Espejo (11:57):
Yeah, and speaking on that, I mean, a real
talk. There are a lot of thesethese statements and a lot of
things that we're going to betalking about some I can totally
relate to, like feeling thepressure of having to handle the
word correctly, or any of thesestatements, but I think even I
love what you said about puttingthe Bible first, which kind of
sometimes means you need to knowwhat comes second. And in
(12:17):
embracing this is how I feel orthis has been my experience or
other people's experiences andhurts and hopes right and being
able to look at those things andsay, I'm going to put the Bible
first. Along those same lines.
The last bucket of concerns andthoughts is about how certain
principles you know, such asrelativism, absolutism,
collectivism, individualism, anyother ism, can destroy unity and
(12:39):
righteousness of the church.
Someone said, I especially havea fear of generational division,
that one was like, Oh, yes, Ican. I feel that. Another ones
that I want those studying outthis topic to focus on listening
to the spirit, rather thanlearning to support a position
or an argument. Another onesaid, the big picture to me is
(12:59):
this, wherever the individualdisciple falls on the issue, we
must maintain the unity of theSpirit. I pray that the church
enters into this study with aheart of humility, it's better
for someone to assume they knownothing good into this study
than to assume that they alreadyknow the truth. I also hope that
regardless of final positions onthe matter, each person can
understand where the other iscoming from. And there can be no
(13:21):
discord dissension or factionsin God's Church, that anyone on
this journey can be protectedfrom judgment and assumptions,
that we can be proud of eachother for seeking out truth and
asking questions. That was thecapital T truth, that we can
respect each other, whatever wewherever we land. And then the
last one, I hope that we do notlet a subject like this keep us
(13:42):
from spreading the gospel witheach other, as a body and as a
family.
Travis Albritton (13:46):
Yeah, and that's always the tough part.
But it comes to conversationslike this, where you have a wide
variety of perspectives and lifeexperiences and denominational
backgrounds and doctrinalbackgrounds, is, you know,
whenever you get into a heateddiscussion, which often this
becomes very heated, becausethere's, you know, we each bring
(14:06):
our own experiences into theconversation, that instead of
promoting unity, and maturity,and righteousness, that it
devolves into factions anddivisions. And if we just look
historically, at the church as awhole, that is what we do. We
say, Oh, so you think women canserve communion during the
(14:27):
church service like past thetrays? We do not. So now we will
create two differentdenominations, which are
completely identical except forhow we address this question. Or
even closer to home theChristian churches in the
churches of Christ. Theyseparated largely on the
question of instrumental music.
And so it was like, okay, weboth hold to the Bible as the
standard. We both believe indiscipleship and repentance and
(14:49):
baptism, but you play guitar onSundays, and we do not so we're
going to create separatedenominations. So that way, you
know, we can kind of each go Ourown way. And that is, I mean,
it's really sad. It's really sadto think like, wow, this other
worldly a gobby love that Godhas entrusted with us. And that
(15:10):
we are his his flag bearers, hisimage bearers, that we're
supposed to represent him to theworld, that rather than working
through the the minordifferences that we have, we are
less unified than the worldaround us. And so I know for
Corina and myself, when we wereeally looking through this
(15:32):
ible study in this question, inarticular, our aim is that at
he end of this, we would beore unified than before, even
f the way we think about unityeeds to, to change or shift
lightly in order to be moreesilient. Our goal is for the
COC to be stronger, that at thend of this question, as all of
(15:54):
s collectively work throughhis and study this out and come
o a renewed or solidifiedonvictions about where we
tand, and why that that wouldromote unity, because it's no
onger this is just the way thate've always done things where
e studied this out years ago,nd it's settled, or, you know,
o and so said that this is theay to do it. And so that's what
(16:17):
e're doing. Because if you haveuestions, and that's the
esponse you get, it doesn'teally inspire confidence. It
oesn't, it doesn't say, younow, what, I really respect how
hey arrived at that answer andhat position, as a church,
ompletely transparent andaying, we're just going to
isten to the Bible. If itoesn't come across that way,
(16:37):
hen yeah, there will bepportunities for division and
iscord and dissension. But Butur hope, and our aim is, by
ind of going through the studyogether, that we can land on a
ore solid foundation that we'vead in the past when it comes to
his question. That's the dream.
o why are we making thisodcast? We just went over some
(16:59):
oncerns, some things that we'veeard some feedback that we've
otten, why why did we feel likehis is something worth making
t worth really investing theast, you know, the better part
f 2021, preparing for to makeure that we could do it
dequately?
Corina Espejo (17:13):
Yeah, we really wanted to provide that thorough
just a practical study, not evenjust something that's just
academic, but something that canreally give us application of
this question with no hiddenagenda or expectations. And we
will talk about what our agendais and what we do want, because
I think it'd be silly to say, wedon't want anything. But really,
(17:35):
it's just coming from this placeof true love for the church and
our fellowship of churches,especially with the ICC, and we
just want the best for ourfamily, our church family.
Travis Albritton (17:46):
Yeah. And the main focus that we have for this
podcast, you know, becauseanyone, within our family of
churches, I think will benefitfrom listening to this. But
really, we're making this for,for leaders, for people that are
in ministry, people that servealongside ministry, part time,
vocationally, people that leadsmall groups, people that train
other people. So we're not justgoing through the study saying,
(18:09):
here's a Bible study, but reallyapplying it from the perspective
of you're a person who's leadingothers, and you're trying to
lead them in the right way.
You're trying to guide them intoGod's will not just for their
lives, but also for your churchin your ministry as a whole. And
both of us have been inministry, currently serve in
ministry in the capacities, andtotally understand what it's
(18:29):
like, when you get questions outof the blue, that you haven't
spent eight months studying outand feeling ill equipped to
answer those questions. So ifyou're listening to this, and
you're in the ministry, wetotally respect and look up to
you for all the work that youdo. And we just want to be here
as a helpful resource to helpyou be able to provide
(18:51):
thoughtful insights to thepeople in your ministry, the
people that God has entrustedyou to lead, and that you feel
empowered and equipped to moveforward and not stay in a state
of, you know, paralysis of, Oh,I don't have time to really
study out this question, becauseI'm putting out five other fires
and this marriage falling apartand that ministry is going
haywire. And I got to do allthese things. And then now I
(19:13):
also have to be a Bible scholar,when it comes to understanding
how to answer this question. Wetotally get it, we totally get
it and understand. And we justwant to want you to know that
we're on your your team, we'reon your side, we want to partner
with you, and help give you theresources that you need in order
to to really live out thecalling that God has given to
you.
Corina Espejo (19:32):
Yeah, I hope you guys feel a lot of compassion. I
really do. Just compassion andpartnership in the faith here.
That's the dream. So yeah, so
Travis Albritton (19:42):
let's talk about our agenda. We said
there's no agenda, but we dohave an agenda. Hopefully, it's
an agenda you can get behind aswell. So let's just talk about
what we don't want coming fromthis podcast and what we really
do want people to gain fromlistening to this podcast.
Corina Espejo (19:59):
Yeah. Yeah, I do not want people to feel judged.
And we talked about leaders, butanybody, we don't want anybody
to feel judged. On the flip sideof that, we really hope you feel
grace and love. That godly graceand that godly love. Another
one, we don't want you to feelalone or neglected. And I think
that's really common for peoplewho approached this question to
(20:19):
feel incredibly isolated, orforgotten. And so we hope that
you feel again, that unity thatwas a big one in our feedback
from people, but also confidencein Jesus and in Christ. Often
chaos, right? There's a lot ofchaos and feeling lost and
completely confused on thistopic. So we hope at the end of
(20:39):
this, there's competence, andpeople feel like I'm competent
in the Gospel and truth and I'msecure. And God. My favorite one
was my last one, I added thison. I really just hope you
experience hope, hope for thechurch, hope for yourself hope
for others. That's, yeah, so wewant.
Travis Albritton (20:57):
And I think those are all things that, you
know, as ministers ofreconciliation, that Yeah, like
that totally, totally resonatesnot just with how we would hope
that we would act and respond,but really aligns with how Jesus
did his ministry, right, that wereally want to not just speak
truth, but model what that truthin love looks like. Yes. And,
(21:20):
and I think the other tangiblebenefits that we hope that we'll
get out of this discussion isnot just answering this question
of what does the Bible have tosay about women in their roles
in ministry, and what that lookslike for us as a fellowship of
churches, but that we canactually learn how to study
lightning rod topics andquestions that are culturally
(21:43):
relevant, and doing it in a waythat doesn't feel threatening.
That doesn't feel like you know,we're just stepping on that
third rail, just trying to tryto blow things up for no reason.
But that we feel like, Okay, ifwe can answer this question, and
if we can learn the rightapproach to answering this
question, in a way that honorsGod, that really reflects the
(22:04):
heart and love of Jesus, butalso allows us to be humble to
what God has to say for us, thenthat would give us the
confidence to wade into evenstickier topics and questions
that that we're facing in theworld, too. So, so our hope and
our prayer for this podcast isthat you would see this not as a
threat to your influence, or toyou being able to do the work
(22:27):
that God has called you to do.
We certainly do not want this tobe, I mean, to the best of our
ability weaponized against you,if you're in the ministry, both
of us have seen that happen,where, you know, a teaching
comes out that's new ordifferent. And rather than it
being used as an opportunity forconstructive dialogue, it's used
as a stick of dynamite, youknow, by people that have been
(22:50):
hurt by real experiences, and,and that just shuts down
conversation, which is not whatwe want. And so our hope is that
this would really be anopportunity for us to study this
out thoroughly, honestly, withhumility and love and patience,
and bearing with one another, inand instead of just finding ways
to tell people why they'rewrong, that instead we would
(23:11):
seek to gain further wisdom andclarity from the scriptures. So
you may or may not know who weare, you may or may not even
know who we are in real life wemet, we might not even be
Facebook friends, that istotally possible. So you may be
wondering, well, who are youguys to do this podcast? Like,
why? Why is Travis and crina?
Why are Why are we doing thispodcast? And not leaving it up
(23:35):
to other people who may be moreskilled or qualified to answer
this question?
Corina Espejo (23:39):
Yeah, I so I'm a New Yorker in at heart. I moved
to Jacksonville a couple yearsago, but ultimately, just a
sister in Christ. I've made aton of mistakes on every level.
When it comes to just talking topeople listening to people, I,
I'm such a talker, so I thinkI'm doing a great job for this
(24:00):
podcast. But like, yeah, I thinka part of me I, I wondered, am I
up for the challenge, right? Assomebody who did grow up in the
church, and I have a very, youknow, obviously narrow
perspective on the matter. Iwonder, okay, am I up for this
challenge, and I'm grateful thatwe are pulling in other more
(24:22):
skilled, knowledgeable peoplewho have spent way more hours on
this topic. And I think just interms of their their teaching
gift. I think they're, I'mexcited to get them in on this
conversation in our family.
Travis Albritton (24:36):
Yeah. So similar to Corina. I grew up in
he church. I grew up in theCOC. I described myself as a
yper active amateur Biblecholar. So like, all the
edging you could possibly do, Iust love reading the Bible. I
ove studying the Biblerestling with questions. I've
one online ministry for theast four or five years. And so
o yeah, so we both bring ourwn strengths, but we also
(24:58):
ecognize areas have thisiscussion where we benefit from
rue experts that can actuallyead the Hebrew and the Greek
nd have the cultural contextnd understanding. And so you're
oing to hear those people,hose individuals throughout
his podcast. And all of thosendividuals are also in the
COC. So this is truly a familyonversation that we're having,
(25:19):
or us and for each other. Now,ow can leaders churches best
tilize this particular resourcehat, you know, we're creating
his Bible study series? We'reecording it as a podcast. What
re different ways that peoplean take these episodes and
pply them to the conversationshey're having internally? in
(25:41):
heir own churches?
Corina Espejo (25:42):
Yeah, yeah, we hope and I definitely know, we
dreamed for this podcast to beused as a personal Bible study
first. And I think that's onething I might not be, you know,
in seminary school. But onething I think both you and I, we
try and make sure it's for usfirst, and when we approach the
Bible that the power is for usfirst. So how you can utilize
(26:02):
this, if you're a leader, inthat capacity, use it for your
personal Bible study. First, letthe word do what it does for
you. Again, that powerful andeffective, like it talks about
in Hebrews four, let it let itdo that for you. First, then you
can approach that for your groupdiscussion. I think the question
is, okay, how will we use thispodcast? For our local church to
(26:26):
begin to answer this questiontogether? And I think that's a
great start, again, you firstand then and then kind of
bringing in your small group oryour church.
Travis Albritton (26:36):
Yeah, I think another great way that people
could use this podcast is ifyou're part of a task force,
which that's, that's kind of thethe going buzzword nowadays,
for, hey, we got to answer thisquestion. Let's get together a
group of people that love Jesus,to really study this out as a
group. If you're a part of ataskforce like that, then
consider using this podcast as aframework for being able to
(26:56):
study this question in a helpfulstarting place. You know that
you certainly we certainlybelieve that you should go into
your own study, you should read,read your own resources, but
simply use this as a frameworkas a starting place to say,
okay, maybe let's start here.
Let's start with thesequestions, these topics, these
passages and scriptures. Andthen fill in the gaps where we
feel like we need to for ourparticular church congregation,
(27:16):
and whatever the task is thatyou've been given, whether it's
setting out women's roles inministry, or something similar.
And then last but not least, wereally want this podcast to be a
resource for your church as awhole. Right, that we are
certainly making this first andforemost, to help readers be
able to understand this questionfully understand the biblical
(27:40):
context for how we answer thisquestion. And then feel equipped
to then teach other people thethings that they've learned. But
as with any question, and anypotential change in the way that
we do church, it's always wiseto bring the church along with
you, as you're studying thatquestion out. And so we also
hope that you can use theseepisodes, and the handouts and
(28:02):
the study guides that we puttogether for each of these
studies, and use them to reallytrain and equip the entire
church, when it's appropriatefor you to have this
conversation we recognize, it'snot always the best time right
now to to jump into this reallymeaty discussion that there may
be other pressing prioritiesthat you see, you know, that you
want to address first, or thisis something you want to do now,
(28:24):
or something you want to do sixmonths from now or a year from
now. But when you're ready toreally bring this before your
church that you feel like youhave resources and guides that
you can use to make that processeasier, and more
straightforward, so that youfeel like you have the
resources, you need to do thateffectively. So hopefully, in
this semi short trailer, notreally short, you got a sense of
(28:45):
our heart and our passion or ouryou know where we're coming
from, when it comes to thisquestion and answering this
question. If you do want to getyour hands on some of those
study guides and handouts we'regonna be creating to help you
with your own study, as we gothrough this podcast, and also a
list of the resources that we'veused in setting out this
question in preparing for thispodcast. You can sign up for
(29:07):
that just go to women, churchpodcast.com and just put in your
your name and your emailaddress, and we'll send you
those resources, and also emailsof new episodes as they come
out. So you will always notifyyou when a new episode comes
out. We'll always give you thestudy guide or the Bible study
guide for that episode. So thatway you can kind of study it
(29:27):
along with us and we can go onthis journey to gather. So we
hope you enjoyed thatintroduction to the women in the
church podcast. Stay tuned forepisode one which be dropping
very soon. We're going to talkabout major foundations that we
need to set for moving forwardand engaging with this
discussion.
Welcome to the women in the church podcast
where we take a fresh look whatthe Bible teaches about women in
church for the ICOC. I am onef your hosts, Travis Albr
tton. Joining me as we'll be te case for every episode is my p
rtner in crime Corina Espej. Hello Corina, let's just st
rt off this trailer episoe. I don't know if it'll be a qu
(00:23):
ck trailer, but it'll be a triler, kind of letting you k
ow what's to come and just kindof talk about like, what is
the ultimate question thatwe're hoping to address with
his podcast?
Corina Espejo (00:31):
Yeah, we really hope that in this podcast, we
can answer the question, whatdoes the Bible say about women
in the church?
Travis Albritton (00:38):
Yes, that is right. And we're going to be
definitely taking our time doinga thorough Bible study of this
topic of what does the Bible sayabout women in the church? And
we're going to also answer forthe questions that you have when
you clicked on this particularpodcast episodes like, can a
woman preach to a mixed audienceon a Sunday? Are there certain
(00:59):
ministry roles that arerestricted for men or women?
What part do spiritual giftsplay and how we serve the church
and other related questions likethat? So we're going to cover
all of those things on thispodcast. Now, one thing that I
think is important for us tosay, right off the bat, is that
both of us are members of theInternational troops of Christ.
(01:22):
Yeah. I grew up in the ICOC. Iknow. I did, too. Yeah. So we're
both Kingdom kids. And in thebest sense of the word. And, and
we love our fellowship, we loveour fellowship of churches. And
so this podcast is not simply,let's study out this topic in
question, just because we'recurious. But because we really
(01:46):
do want the ICOC to flourish anddo well, and to feel equipped to
handle questions like this. Whenthey come up.
Corina Espejo (01:55):
Yeah, I'm really as it feels like family talks. I
don't think we're coming here tothis is a movement. No, it feels
more like this is our family.
And like all families, we loveit. And there are going to be
things we don't like and thingsthat we just adore. So just keep
that in mind that this is familytalk.
Travis Albritton (02:11):
Right. And something that you will hear us
repeat often. Because it's true,is that we don't have a hidden
agenda with doing this podcast,we don't have a bone to pick we
don't have like something thatwe're trying to get to at the
end like a predetermined outcomethat we really do, you know, as
(02:32):
to individuals that have studiedthis, this question out in
depth. We just want to offer thethings that we've learned, and
the the understanding that we'vegained in studying out this
question, and create a resourcethat's tangible, palatable,
accessible, so that we you don'thave to go off and learn Hebrew
(02:52):
and Greek To answer thisquestion, and that you can feel
empowered and equipped. But Iknow when we first started
talking about this podcast, withministers, leaders, other
churches, and even just othermembers within the ICOC, that
there was a lot of concern aboutOh, what do you actually do in
(03:12):
here? Like, what's, what'sreally going on? Is there are
you hiding something behind thecorner, that this is just a
slippery slope to a bunch ofother questions and issues?
Corina, I know that youpecifically, like interviewed
eople, and like, captured theiresponses. Yeah. And so so let's
ind of walk through some ofhose concerns, so that we can
(03:32):
peak to them. And so if you'reistening to this podcast, you
an maybe be a little more atase about listening to these
pisodes, then maybe you mightave been just by seeing the
itle.
Corina Espejo (03:43):
Yeah. And I tried to get a wide range of people.
So as you hear me say, thesestatements, my best advice is
trying to hear these statementssimply from your church family,
I wouldn't try and put anyspecific demographic a part of
it because I did try and getwide as far as age, even just
background of growing up in thechurch or not growing up in the
(04:03):
church. Or even if we thinkabout these classically
progressive, traditional or evenethnicity and race, so don't
think oh, man, a millennial saidthat, or some old white dude
probably claim that like, No,just think about it as your
brother or sister in Christ issaying this and leave it at
that. So let's one of thebiggest concerns and I tried to
(04:24):
group them in three differentcategories. They naturally fell
into three topics. The first oneis that concern that talking
about gender or women's roles,is really culturally driven and
forced upon us as a church bodyby the world by the outside
world. For example, movementslike modern feminism and us
having to answer this opens upthe door for other topics that
(04:45):
us as a church, we are stilllearning and growing in but are
forced to speak on itprematurely. In other words, you
know, we're not ready to talkabout it with a certain
authority or knowledge, but wehave to because of what's
happening And I think for us, Idon't think that's neither bad
nor good. And that's not whatwe're trying to say. But it is a
general concern. So some ofthose straight from what people
(05:09):
said, I'm just gonna word forword say what they were the
feedback they gave. One personsaid, I don't like being wrong.
And it can be scary learningthat what I thought I knew,
isn't true, because I feel likemy security is taken away.
Another person said, I hope fora culture that is not limited to
the current debate around thetopic of gender roles, but
reaches back to the Bible forJesus heart, as well as a
(05:31):
possible teaching and examplesto frame how we think and act
surrounding this topic. And thelast one, it's a long one, but
it's a good one. It says my hopewould be that people could
approach this topic with arelatively open mind and not let
other worldly or humanisticaspects affect what God lays out
for us to follow. My prayerwould be that disciples have
(05:51):
compassion towards each other inthis situation, and that we
arrive at a decision we believeis best for our relationship
with God, and for the spreadingof his word.
Travis Albritton (06:00):
And I think that this is a valid concern,
you know, especially if you'relistening to this and you're a
leader, you're in ministry,leading small groups training
and equipping others, that it isa totally natural response to
say, okay, is this a questionthat we're answering on our
terms? Or is this somethingthat's being forced on us? And
do we have the, the capacity toanswer this wisely and
(06:24):
confidently? Yeah, I thinkthat's a totally valid concern.
You know, and to what Corinaaid, you know, it's neither
ood or bad to have that kind ofressure to feel like, okay, we
o need to give an answer. Theible does say we need to be
quipped, you know, to give annswer to those that ask us
bout the faith that we hold to,nd, you know, and just being a
art of life and walking on thearth is that people will have
(06:48):
uestions, and the culture thate live in, will bring questions
o us. And so those should note threatening, we should not
eel threatened, when the worldround us has questions about
hat does the Bible say abouthis? What does God think about
hat, but really see those mores opportunities that, you know,
ecause we serve a God that isrue, that is faithful, that is
(07:10):
onsistent, and that is hereorever? That we can have
onfidence that not only can weurn to the Bible for that
isdom that we need to answer,ut also to have a foundation
hat's biblically built, and toot feel like every time a
uestion comes up is anotherpportunity for people to lose
heir faith, which that can,specially when it's an
(07:30):
verwhelming amount of questionsll at once it can feel that
ay. It can feel kind ofnundating. And so hopefully,
ith this particular question,his podcast can help alleviate
ome of that concern that Yeah,aybe a lot of this question is
eing driven by the world arounds. But it doesn't mean that we
an't answer it on our terms byeturning to the Bible.
Corina Espejo (07:50):
Yeah. And you're not alone. You are definitely
not alone, if you feel that,that concern or that fear. Let's
move on to the next one. So thenext I'll say bucket of thoughts
on this question. It comes fromthis concept of we will oppose
God's design for partnershipbetween men and women to uphold
our human and sometimesunhealthy expectations of both
(08:13):
sexes. So again, this concept,it's kind of like the men will
be phased out, and their rolesin contravene contributions
devalued in the home or at thechurch. Or On the flip side,
again, straight from from one ofthese individuals, I think I get
scared that the word of God willjust be used to oppress women in
a space where women should beuplifted and listened to and
(08:33):
treated as equal, another personshared, I fear, feeling like God
created me as a woman to somehowbe weaker or not as capable as
someone else because of mygender. Still, another person
said, I have many hopes on thissubject. But my biggest wish for
all my friends is to be able toteach about God's word, not just
the boys, I find it ridiculousthat your gender can determine
(08:53):
what you do for God, as we are,are we Excuse me? Are we as
disciples willing to trust Godwhile learning and relying on
the historical and contextualroles of women in the church and
be willing to modify ourthinking if needed? Another
person said, How can we find thetrue meaning of Scripture
without changing it? And how dowe know if we've gone too far in
(09:14):
terms of interpreting, and thenthe last one, there's so much
power in my hands when it comesto interpretation? I want to be
able to discern what God's wordas he intended it, and some of
these are really, it can feelreally emotional and high charge
and I think part of the graceand mercy I think of us doing
this podcast is not pretendinglike people don't feel or think
(09:36):
or have these these thoughts.
But really just being able tolisten and not put any kind of
judgment on it, but just allowpeople to work it out.
Travis Albritton (09:46):
Yeah, and I think the the other thing that I
hear from this feedback and thejuiciest thoughts from
disciples, brothers and sistersfrom within our fellowship is a
desire to stay true to God'sWill when That is and that's
something that we've both heardacross the board something that
we both both, you know, signedup for when we said Jesus as
(10:08):
Lord is, you know, God, you justyou just tell me what what is
your desire for my wife? What isyour desire for us as a church?
And and give us the humility tolisten? And I think a big
concern from people enteringthis conversation of answering
this question is because, youknow, a lot of it can feel
culturally driven from the worldaround us is there can be a fear
(10:29):
or hesitation that even engagingin this question or talking
about this question is going tolead us away from God's design
his, his will, what we see inScripture, and instead lean on
human understanding and humanwisdom, because it feels right
in the broader context of theculture that we live in. And I
(10:50):
think that's totally a realconcern. But that should not
hold us back from being able to,to wade into this question on
our own terms, by reallystudying the Bible, seeing what
the Bible has to say what Godhas to say, through Scripture.
And know that ultimately, like,this is something that, as with
everything, we're continuing togrow and mature that, you know,
(11:12):
1020 years from now, we're gonnabe asking different questions,
we're gonna be growing indifferent ways. And so, so just
know from from Korea, and myselfand from the other individuals
that'll be contributing to thispodcast, that we're really
unified and leaning on the Bibleas our standard, and as the
foundation for everything thatwe talk about and discuss. You
know, and that we're going toreally let God speak to us,
(11:33):
instead of bringing ourexpectations about what we think
God should say. But rather justbe humble to the Bible. So that
way, you know, we can all beunified around that, and we can
all still have that sameconviction that, you know, we're
really gonna put the Bible firstwhen it comes to decisions and
stances that we take withquestions that we that we get
(11:54):
from the world around us andfrom within our churches as
well.
Corina Espejo (11:57):
Yeah, and speaking on that, I mean, a real
talk. There are a lot of thesethese statements and a lot of
things that we're going to betalking about some I can totally
relate to, like feeling thepressure of having to handle the
word correctly, or any of thesestatements, but I think even I
love what you said about puttingthe Bible first, which kind of
sometimes means you need to knowwhat comes second. And in
(12:17):
embracing this is how I feel orthis has been my experience or
other people's experiences andhurts and hopes right and being
able to look at those things andsay, I'm going to put the Bible
first. Along those same lines.
The last bucket of concerns andthoughts is about how certain
principles you know, such asrelativism, absolutism,
collectivism, individualism, anyother ism, can destroy unity and
(12:39):
righteousness of the church.
Someone said, I especially havea fear of generational division,
that one was like, Oh, yes, Ican. I feel that. Another ones
that I want those studying outthis topic to focus on listening
to the spirit, rather thanlearning to support a position
or an argument. Another onesaid, the big picture to me is
(12:59):
this, wherever the individualdisciple falls on the issue, we
must maintain the unity of theSpirit. I pray that the church
enters into this study with aheart of humility, it's better
for someone to assume they knownothing good into this study
than to assume that they alreadyknow the truth. I also hope that
regardless of final positions onthe matter, each person can
understand where the other iscoming from. And there can be no
(13:21):
discord dissension or factionsin God's Church, that anyone on
this journey can be protectedfrom judgment and assumptions,
that we can be proud of eachother for seeking out truth and
asking questions. That was thecapital T truth, that we can
respect each other, whatever wewherever we land. And then the
last one, I hope that we do notlet a subject like this keep us
(13:42):
from spreading the gospel witheach other, as a body and as a
family.
Travis Albritton (13:46):
Yeah, and that's always the tough part.
But it comes to conversationslike this, where you have a wide
variety of perspectives and lifeexperiences and denominational
backgrounds and doctrinalbackgrounds, is, you know,
whenever you get into a heateddiscussion, which often this
becomes very heated, becausethere's, you know, we each bring
(14:06):
our own experiences into theconversation, that instead of
promoting unity, and maturity,and righteousness, that it
devolves into factions anddivisions. And if we just look
historically, at the church as awhole, that is what we do. We
say, Oh, so you think women canserve communion during the
(14:27):
church service like past thetrays? We do not. So now we will
create two differentdenominations, which are
completely identical except forhow we address this question. Or
even closer to home theChristian churches in the
churches of Christ. Theyseparated largely on the
question of instrumental music.
And so it was like, okay, weboth hold to the Bible as the
standard. We both believe indiscipleship and repentance and
(14:49):
baptism, but you play guitar onSundays, and we do not so we're
going to create separatedenominations. So that way, you
know, we can kind of each go Ourown way. And that is, I mean,
it's really sad. It's really sadto think like, wow, this other
worldly a gobby love that Godhas entrusted with us. And that
(15:10):
we are his his flag bearers, hisimage bearers, that we're
supposed to represent him to theworld, that rather than working
through the the minordifferences that we have, we are
less unified than the worldaround us. And so I know for
Corina and myself, when we wereeally looking through this
(15:32):
ible study in this question, inarticular, our aim is that at
he end of this, we would beore unified than before, even
f the way we think about unityeeds to, to change or shift
lightly in order to be moreesilient. Our goal is for the
COC to be stronger, that at thend of this question, as all of
(15:54):
s collectively work throughhis and study this out and come
o a renewed or solidifiedonvictions about where we
tand, and why that that wouldromote unity, because it's no
onger this is just the way thate've always done things where
e studied this out years ago,nd it's settled, or, you know,
o and so said that this is theay to do it. And so that's what
(16:17):
e're doing. Because if you haveuestions, and that's the
esponse you get, it doesn'teally inspire confidence. It
oesn't, it doesn't say, younow, what, I really respect how
hey arrived at that answer andhat position, as a church,
ompletely transparent andaying, we're just going to
isten to the Bible. If itoesn't come across that way,
(16:37):
hen yeah, there will bepportunities for division and
iscord and dissension. But Butur hope, and our aim is, by
ind of going through the studyogether, that we can land on a
ore solid foundation that we'vead in the past when it comes to
his question. That's the dream.
o why are we making thisodcast? We just went over some
(16:59):
oncerns, some things that we'veeard some feedback that we've
otten, why why did we feel likehis is something worth making
t worth really investing theast, you know, the better part
f 2021, preparing for to makeure that we could do it
dequately?
Corina Espejo (17:13):
Yeah, we really wanted to provide that thorough
just a practical study, not evenjust something that's just
academic, but something that canreally give us application of
this question with no hiddenagenda or expectations. And we
will talk about what our agendais and what we do want, because
I think it'd be silly to say, wedon't want anything. But really,
(17:35):
it's just coming from this placeof true love for the church and
our fellowship of churches,especially with the ICC, and we
just want the best for ourfamily, our church family.
Travis Albritton (17:46):
Yeah. And the main focus that we have for this
podcast, you know, becauseanyone, within our family of
churches, I think will benefitfrom listening to this. But
really, we're making this for,for leaders, for people that are
in ministry, people that servealongside ministry, part time,
vocationally, people that leadsmall groups, people that train
other people. So we're not justgoing through the study saying,
(18:09):
here's a Bible study, but reallyapplying it from the perspective
of you're a person who's leadingothers, and you're trying to
lead them in the right way.
You're trying to guide them intoGod's will not just for their
lives, but also for your churchin your ministry as a whole. And
both of us have been inministry, currently serve in
ministry in the capacities, andtotally understand what it's
(18:29):
like, when you get questions outof the blue, that you haven't
spent eight months studying outand feeling ill equipped to
answer those questions. So ifyou're listening to this, and
you're in the ministry, wetotally respect and look up to
you for all the work that youdo. And we just want to be here
as a helpful resource to helpyou be able to provide
(18:51):
thoughtful insights to thepeople in your ministry, the
people that God has entrustedyou to lead, and that you feel
empowered and equipped to moveforward and not stay in a state
of, you know, paralysis of, Oh,I don't have time to really
study out this question, becauseI'm putting out five other fires
and this marriage falling apartand that ministry is going
haywire. And I got to do allthese things. And then now I
(19:13):
also have to be a Bible scholar,when it comes to understanding
how to answer this question. Wetotally get it, we totally get
it and understand. And we justwant to want you to know that
we're on your your team, we'reon your side, we want to partner
with you, and help give you theresources that you need in order
to to really live out thecalling that God has given to
you.
Corina Espejo (19:32):
Yeah, I hope you guys feel a lot of compassion. I
really do. Just compassion andpartnership in the faith here.
That's the dream. So yeah, so
Travis Albritton (19:42):
let's talk about our agenda. We said
there's no agenda, but we dohave an agenda. Hopefully, it's
an agenda you can get behind aswell. So let's just talk about
what we don't want coming fromthis podcast and what we really
do want people to gain fromlistening to this podcast.
Corina Espejo (19:59):
Yeah. Yeah, I do not want people to feel judged.
And we talked about leaders, butanybody, we don't want anybody
to feel judged. On the flip sideof that, we really hope you feel
grace and love. That godly graceand that godly love. Another
one, we don't want you to feelalone or neglected. And I think
that's really common for peoplewho approached this question to
(20:19):
feel incredibly isolated, orforgotten. And so we hope that
you feel again, that unity thatwas a big one in our feedback
from people, but also confidencein Jesus and in Christ. Often
chaos, right? There's a lot ofchaos and feeling lost and
completely confused on thistopic. So we hope at the end of
(20:39):
this, there's competence, andpeople feel like I'm competent
in the Gospel and truth and I'msecure. And God. My favorite one
was my last one, I added thison. I really just hope you
experience hope, hope for thechurch, hope for yourself hope
for others. That's, yeah, so wewant.
Travis Albritton (20:57):
And I think those are all things that, you
know, as ministers ofreconciliation, that Yeah, like
that totally, totally resonatesnot just with how we would hope
that we would act and respond,but really aligns with how Jesus
did his ministry, right, that wereally want to not just speak
truth, but model what that truthin love looks like. Yes. And,
(21:20):
and I think the other tangiblebenefits that we hope that we'll
get out of this discussion isnot just answering this question
of what does the Bible have tosay about women in their roles
in ministry, and what that lookslike for us as a fellowship of
churches, but that we canactually learn how to study
lightning rod topics andquestions that are culturally
(21:43):
relevant, and doing it in a waythat doesn't feel threatening.
That doesn't feel like you know,we're just stepping on that
third rail, just trying to tryto blow things up for no reason.
But that we feel like, Okay, ifwe can answer this question, and
if we can learn the rightapproach to answering this
question, in a way that honorsGod, that really reflects the
(22:04):
heart and love of Jesus, butalso allows us to be humble to
what God has to say for us, thenthat would give us the
confidence to wade into evenstickier topics and questions
that that we're facing in theworld, too. So, so our hope and
our prayer for this podcast isthat you would see this not as a
threat to your influence, or toyou being able to do the work
(22:27):
that God has called you to do.
We certainly do not want this tobe, I mean, to the best of our
ability weaponized against you,if you're in the ministry, both
of us have seen that happen,where, you know, a teaching
comes out that's new ordifferent. And rather than it
being used as an opportunity forconstructive dialogue, it's used
as a stick of dynamite, youknow, by people that have been
(22:50):
hurt by real experiences, and,and that just shuts down
conversation, which is not whatwe want. And so our hope is that
this would really be anopportunity for us to study this
out thoroughly, honestly, withhumility and love and patience,
and bearing with one another, inand instead of just finding ways
to tell people why they'rewrong, that instead we would
(23:11):
seek to gain further wisdom andclarity from the scriptures. So
you may or may not know who weare, you may or may not even
know who we are in real life wemet, we might not even be
Facebook friends, that istotally possible. So you may be
wondering, well, who are youguys to do this podcast? Like,
why? Why is Travis and crina?
Why are Why are we doing thispodcast? And not leaving it up
(23:35):
to other people who may be moreskilled or qualified to answer
this question?
Corina Espejo (23:39):
Yeah, I so I'm a New Yorker in at heart. I moved
to Jacksonville a couple yearsago, but ultimately, just a
sister in Christ. I've made aton of mistakes on every level.
When it comes to just talking topeople listening to people, I,
I'm such a talker, so I thinkI'm doing a great job for this
(24:00):
podcast. But like, yeah, I thinka part of me I, I wondered, am I
up for the challenge, right? Assomebody who did grow up in the
church, and I have a very, youknow, obviously narrow
perspective on the matter. Iwonder, okay, am I up for this
challenge, and I'm grateful thatwe are pulling in other more
(24:22):
skilled, knowledgeable peoplewho have spent way more hours on
this topic. And I think just interms of their their teaching
gift. I think they're, I'mexcited to get them in on this
conversation in our family.
Travis Albritton (24:36):
Yeah. So similar to Corina. I grew up in
he church. I grew up in theCOC. I described myself as a
yper active amateur Biblecholar. So like, all the
edging you could possibly do, Iust love reading the Bible. I
ove studying the Biblerestling with questions. I've
one online ministry for theast four or five years. And so
o yeah, so we both bring ourwn strengths, but we also
(24:58):
ecognize areas have thisiscussion where we benefit from
rue experts that can actuallyead the Hebrew and the Greek
nd have the cultural contextnd understanding. And so you're
oing to hear those people,hose individuals throughout
his podcast. And all of thosendividuals are also in the
COC. So this is truly a familyonversation that we're having,
(25:19):
or us and for each other. Now,ow can leaders churches best
tilize this particular resourcehat, you know, we're creating
his Bible study series? We'reecording it as a podcast. What
re different ways that peoplean take these episodes and
pply them to the conversationshey're having internally? in
(25:41):
heir own churches?
Corina Espejo (25:42):
Yeah, yeah, we hope and I definitely know, we
dreamed for this podcast to beused as a personal Bible study
first. And I think that's onething I might not be, you know,
in seminary school. But onething I think both you and I, we
try and make sure it's for usfirst, and when we approach the
Bible that the power is for usfirst. So how you can utilize
(26:02):
this, if you're a leader, inthat capacity, use it for your
personal Bible study. First, letthe word do what it does for
you. Again, that powerful andeffective, like it talks about
in Hebrews four, let it let itdo that for you. First, then you
can approach that for your groupdiscussion. I think the question
is, okay, how will we use thispodcast? For our local church to
(26:26):
begin to answer this questiontogether? And I think that's a
great start, again, you firstand then and then kind of
bringing in your small group oryour church.
Travis Albritton (26:36):
Yeah, I think another great way that people
could use this podcast is ifyou're part of a task force,
which that's, that's kind of thethe going buzzword nowadays,
for, hey, we got to answer thisquestion. Let's get together a
group of people that love Jesus,to really study this out as a
group. If you're a part of ataskforce like that, then
consider using this podcast as aframework for being able to
(26:56):
study this question in a helpfulstarting place. You know that
you certainly we certainlybelieve that you should go into
your own study, you should read,read your own resources, but
simply use this as a frameworkas a starting place to say,
okay, maybe let's start here.
Let's start with thesequestions, these topics, these
passages and scriptures. Andthen fill in the gaps where we
feel like we need to for ourparticular church congregation,
(27:16):
and whatever the task is thatyou've been given, whether it's
setting out women's roles inministry, or something similar.
And then last but not least, wereally want this podcast to be a
resource for your church as awhole. Right, that we are
certainly making this first andforemost, to help readers be
able to understand this questionfully understand the biblical
(27:40):
context for how we answer thisquestion. And then feel equipped
to then teach other people thethings that they've learned. But
as with any question, and anypotential change in the way that
we do church, it's always wiseto bring the church along with
you, as you're studying thatquestion out. And so we also
hope that you can use theseepisodes, and the handouts and
(28:02):
the study guides that we puttogether for each of these
studies, and use them to reallytrain and equip the entire
church, when it's appropriatefor you to have this
conversation we recognize, it'snot always the best time right
now to to jump into this reallymeaty discussion that there may
be other pressing prioritiesthat you see, you know, that you
want to address first, or thisis something you want to do now,
(28:24):
or something you want to do sixmonths from now or a year from
now. But when you're ready toreally bring this before your
church that you feel like youhave resources and guides that
you can use to make that processeasier, and more
straightforward, so that youfeel like you have the
resources, you need to do thateffectively. So hopefully, in
this semi short trailer, notreally short, you got a sense of
(28:45):
our heart and our passion or ouryou know where we're coming
from, when it comes to thisquestion and answering this
question. If you do want to getyour hands on some of those
study guides and handouts we'regonna be creating to help you
with your own study, as we gothrough this podcast, and also a
list of the resources that we'veused in setting out this
question in preparing for thispodcast. You can sign up for
(29:07):
that just go to women, churchpodcast.com and just put in your
your name and your emailaddress, and we'll send you
those resources, and also emailsof new episodes as they come
out. So you will always notifyyou when a new episode comes
out. We'll always give you thestudy guide or the Bible study
guide for that episode. So thatway you can kind of study it
(29:27):
along with us and we can go onthis journey to gather. So we
hope you enjoyed thatintroduction to the women in the
church podcast. Stay tuned forepisode one which be dropping
very soon. We're going to talkabout major foundations that we
need to set for moving forwardand engaging with this
discussion.
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