October 9, 2025 • 30 mins
When Thayer Lavielle joined Wasserman, she recognized an opportunity to drive change from within one of the world’s leading sports and entertainment agencies. What began as a conversation about how to better support women across industries became The Collective—a global initiative dedicated to advancing the power of women through data, strategy, and storytelling.
As Managing Director, Thayer has helped transform how brands and organizations view women’s impact as consumers, fans, and leaders. In this episode, she discusses the evolution of women’s sports, the cultural moments fueling its momentum, and why authentic influence starts with service and purpose.
Episode Highlights
- The inspiration behind The Collective and how it’s elevating women across sports, music, and entertainment
- Research-driven insights revealing the true scale of women’s fandom and purchasing power
- Key cultural milestones that have shifted public perception of women’s sports
- The challenges and rewards of building a new brand within a global agency
- Lessons from Thayer’s early career in journalism and beauty that shaped her leadership approach
- What influence really means and how it’s best expressed through service and authenticity
Thayer’s perspective offers a thoughtful look at how advocacy, business, and storytelling can come together to create lasting impact for women everywhere.
Links and Resources
Connect with Thayer Lavielle on LinkedIn
Connect with Wasserman on LinkedIn
Learn more about The Collective
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
I would actually argue that it's not that women
all of a sudden appeared on thescene.
It's that more women were giventhe stage to appear on the
scene.
They've always been there.
But now all of a sudden it'sreally become cool to say, oh, I
know this hockey player or Iknow this softball player.
And that's what a gift.
SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
Today's episode is one that I'm very excited to
share with you because if youare like me and years ago, you
watched the movie Jerry Maguireand were fascinated by sports
talent agents, right?
Just the people who are agentsto top elite athletes, then this
episode I think is gonna be upyour alley.
(00:54):
We have on Thayer Lavielle.
Thayer is a managing director atWasterman and the leader of the
collective.
If you're not familiar withWesterman, they're one of the
world's largest sports, music,and entertainment agencies.
They represent talent acrosssports, music, entertainment.
(01:14):
And the collective inparticular, which is what Thayer
is leading, is this unbelievablyexciting project where they are
building the case study forwomen, or the business case, I
should say, for women asathletes, musicians, and
entertainers, and then theaudiences that are interested
(01:37):
and the fans that go along withthat.
We talked today about what thatmeans and how Sayer and her team
are helping to really show thepower of women as athletes and
also their fans.
We talk about why women asaudiences, as fans, are so
important.
And when you really look at thenumbers in terms of how much
(02:00):
women have the ability to spend,it is a no-brainer for why
companies should be investing.
And we talk about the way thatThayer and her team are really
using research and insights andtheir campaigns that they're
running to help companies andleaders in those companies
understand the power of women asfans, consumers, and cultural
(02:22):
drivers.
In this conversation, we talkabout what has propelled women's
sports into the spotlight, howathletes are building deeper fan
connections than ever before,how social media plays a role in
that, and why true influence isreally rooted in service and
impact.
So, with that, I'm gonna let youhear my terrific conversation
(02:45):
with Thayer.
Here we go.
SPEAKER_00 (02:50):
Thayer, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's nice to meet you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
It's great to meet you two.
And I, as we were saying beforewe just started recording, I
can't believe we haven't metalready just because of the
passion and the focus that youhave for the women's market.
Let's get into what is thecollective which you are
running.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
Yeah, thank you.
The collective is reallyWasserman's, which is a global
sports entertainment agency.
It's our focus on how to reallypush and advance the power of
women by driving businessrationale.
So, like, how do you actually dothat?
We sit there across ourrepresentation business where we
represent athletes, artists,entertainers, broadcasters,
(03:31):
coaches, and we think across ourbrands and properties division
and our kind of marketingservices division.
We wanted to look across andfind out how do we leverage the
best of all of these things tojust make the world a better
place through all of the assetsthat we have.
This was about seven years agowhen we've really first started
leaning into it.
And about a little over sixyears ago, we launched it.
(03:52):
And I was, you know, engaged inthe conversation to begin with.
And I can't remember if I wasvoluntoled or I think I
volunteered to just, you know,let me go help sort this out.
And there were several of ustalking about this and like how
there was just opportunity toreally lean in and do more for
women across as executives,athletes.
At that point, we were onlyathletes, so we were a sports
(04:14):
agency at the time for fans andconsumers, most importantly, to
our earlier conversation beforewe started to record on the
transfer of wealth and reallythinking about what does she
want as a fan and as a consumerand how do we really understand
her?
Because if we can understandher, then we can make the world
a better place using all of theresearch and insights, using all
of the tools that we have or candevelop.
(04:36):
And so the collective reallyaims to serve the broader
industry to that end.
So, how can we ensure that everyexecutive that's out there with
a budget can sit there and makea rational case for why to
invest in women, whether they'refans, whether they're consumers,
whether they're women's sports,whether they're women in music,
whatever that is.
And so that's the reason we getto come to work every day, which
(04:58):
is a privilege, candidly.
SPEAKER_01 (05:00):
It's unbelievable to me how misunderstood the women's
market is.
So, for example, becauseWasserman has its roots as
sports agents and reallyunderstands that like very well,
the sports arena.
Do women watch sports?
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
Oh, yeah.
We're watching a lot of sports.
In fact, we did a study lastyear around global fandom of
women who are fans of sport, notjust women's sport, but fans of
every sport.
And 72% of us around the world,out of 10 countries, 35,000
respondents said we are actuallyavid fans of sport, not just
fans, but avid.
(05:37):
And one in four of those feellike sports is one of the most
important things in their life.
So this is why we exist is thatwe are controlling 85% of
purchasing decisions.
We're going to own 75% ofdiscretionary wealth around the
world.
We are, you know, enormoussports fans, enormous music
fans, enormously passionateabout brands that are aligned
(05:59):
with those athletes and artiststhat we follow.
And we are also avidly andpassionately aligned with brands
that actually stand up formaking the world a better place.
And so when those thingsconverge on the kind of
industries of sport and musicand entertainment, it's a really
fun place to be a part of aswe're trying to build more and
more research insights,campaigns, strategies, you know,
(06:23):
whatever everybody needs to gokind of tip them over into
investing.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
So you've said you've been working in the space
in the collective in around sixor seven years.
Yeah.
What has changed in that time,or were there some inflection
points?
Whether it's, you know, maybethe fact the headlines that the
women's soccer team made whenthey were able to get their pay,
were there some inflectionpoints that you observed?
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
Yeah, totally.
Too many to count candidly.
What's been really fun to see issince we launched the
collective.
And by the way, Wasserman hasbeen representing women athletes
since 2002 or 2003.
So we have been at this for along time, long before it was
cool or the thing to do.
And so when we think about thoseinflection points, many of them
(07:08):
have come in the last fiveyears.
That might be anything fromduring the pandemic where
everybody is kind of hunkereddown.
All of a sudden we're allstaring at our phones all the
time and understanding, like,hey, how does you know April
Ross keep fit for her volleyballcareer?
How does this Olympian do X, Y,and Z?
What does that person eat forbreakfast?
And then all of a sudden you'releaning in to see, well, are
(07:30):
these women any playing theirgame?
And lo and behold, they'reactually, it's really
competitive and fun to watch.
And now we're all watching themplay in a bubble or a wobble, as
the WNBA called it.
And oh my gosh, they're superfun to watch.
And then they're also coming outwith social justice messages and
messages of equality andfairness, which they still are
doing within the W.
And so there's these inflectionpoints in professional sports.
(07:52):
And then there are theseinflection points, even just
recently, where the Lioness hasjust won the Euros again, to see
sold-out stadiums across all ofSwitzerland to really having
this moment within the UK marketin particular around the power
of women athletes and what thatmeans.
Now, there's also things likeSedona Prince came out with, I
(08:12):
can't remember the year, maybe2022, a video around that kind
of showcased the fact that atthe NCAA March Madness, the
women's gym was literally asmall like hotel room weight
rack, and the men's was like anentire gym filled with different
weight racks and stuff, muchmore serious kind of setup.
And so that led to an enormousamount of equalizing on the
(08:35):
college level, which then turnedinto more people leaning in to
say, Oh, hold on, these womencannot play ball.
And that led to an incrediblefeature around Caitlin Clark,
who is arguably one of the bestplayers ever to play at her
young age and so really fun towatch and really all of a sudden
turned on a whole new fan base.
And then when these casual fansstart coming in and they say,
Oh, wow, these women canactually play soccer,
(08:56):
basketball, softball, lacrosse,whatever it is, it becomes a
really different conversationfor us as business people trying
to get people to engage for thembecause they're watching it on
Saturday or Sunday all of asudden.
They're not just like, what areyou talking about?
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (09:12):
Well, right.
And I'm glad you brought upCaitlin Clark because I think
she's a great example of howthese female athletes are
becoming part of the popularculture in a way that only
previously male athletes havereally been.
And it's this memento and thefact that you have so many
people that Caitlin Clark ispart now of a very broad
(09:35):
conversation going on in thiscountry in terms of how she
plays and what's going on in thesport.
So ultimately, if they see thatpeople are engaged in this
sport, they're actually talkingabout these athletes.
That I think is also a prettycompelling business proposition
for them.
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
Not only compelling, but in the world of women's
sports in the past five years,it has come to light.
We did a study with RBC actuallythat shed the light on the fact
that men make 21 times more thanwomen athletes on the field of
play across a myriad of sports,from golf to tennis to
basketball, et cetera, soccer.
21 times.
(10:12):
Okay, well, to be expected,right?
But that's really frustratingwhen you are toiling away trying
to play professional soccer orbasketball or whatever, and you
are trying just as hard andputting in just as much time and
playing just as hard, and all ofa sudden that's the discrepancy.
Now, these are businesses.
We're not saying that theyshould be paid equally.
What we are saying is we'd liketo restructure how some of this
(10:36):
is looking in terms of some ofthe deal making across the
different leagues to be able togive women athletes a bit more
of the revenue becauseultimately they then have to go
make 82% of their income off thefield of play.
And that is where they reallydive into social media and where
they have started to build theiraudiences and become closer.
So in that report, it actuallyturns out that women athletes
(10:57):
are two times as engaging thantheir male counterparts because
they have to go deeper.
They have to build this loyaltywith their fans that men
athletes don't necessarily haveto do.
And I would I would actuallyargue that it's not that women
all of a sudden appeared on thescene.
It's that more women were giventhe stage to appear on the
(11:17):
scene.
They've always been there.
But now all of a sudden it'sreally become cool to say, oh, I
know this hockey player or Iknow this softball player, and
that's what a gift.
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
Yeah.
So if you think about thismomentum that women's sports are
really gaining, what do youthink is really driving the
cultural shift?
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
Oh, I think it's a lot of things.
I think it's these culturalmoments where it's the Euros,
it's the Olympics, it's FinalFour, it's all stars, it's these
kind of heat moments, which aresuper fun.
It's star power.
These, you know, all of a suddenwe're paying more attention to
the various stars of any givensport.
And by the way, globally, it iscompletely varied.
So who's really shining inIndian Premier League cricket is
(11:58):
very different than obviouslywho's shining lioness's
perspective or red roses or toanybody here.
I think it's also that there isreally this influx of major
investment coming into women'ssports from venture capital to
private equity, new ownership,new valuations rising, which is
very exciting.
So that kind of brings up a lotof, you know, a lot of interest.
And then when that happens, moreand more brands say, hold on,
(12:21):
what's going on here that thesebillionaires are starting to put
their money in?
They seem to be pretty adept atmaking money because they're
billionaires.
So how can we actuallyunderstand what if we have a
role to support within thisspace?
And then I think a lot of theplatforms like the to view it is
becoming more accessible.
The there's not a lot ofgatekeepers anymore because
you're able to watch thesesports and look at these
(12:43):
athletes in all over the place.
And so that becomes a thebarriers of entry are just
lessened, which makes the fansdemand more accessibility.
So I think it's a myriad offactors.
I don't think it's oneparticular thing.
SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
So if you were thinking about you have built a
brand within Wasserman.
So if people are not familiarwith Wasserman, pretty well
known in terms of in terms ofthe background, the sports
agents and representing talent.
Lots of people in the marketingadvertising industry are aware,
(13:16):
are familiar with Wasserman, butyou're building a brand within a
brand.
So can you talk a little bitabout what that's like?
And there's probably hard partsabout that and easier things
about it, but talk a little bitabout what that's like.
SPEAKER_00 (13:30):
Yeah, thanks.
I've been here for 14 years,which to me seems like a
credible lifetime to say that,but it has gone by so quickly
because we as a company havegrown largely by acquisition.
And so when you're growinglargely by acquisition, the
growth comes in, you know, fitsand spurts that are small bites
or big bites to, and I've workedon different areas of that
(13:52):
business.
So I've worked in our brands andproperties division where I kind
of came up uh working on thingslike American Express, which I
think you you had worked atbefore, and have worked in our
corporate office where I helpeddo a lot of business
development, special projects,opened our office in in
Shanghai.
And then I moved over to be theCOO of several of our talent
(14:13):
divisions.
And so at the time it was veryrare to have somebody who had
worked across the business likethat when we started the
collective.
And it felt like a bit of a anexercise or a project of like,
hey, how could we even thinkabout creating something that
would be additive to all of ourbusiness?
And then as soon as we were outof the gate, it kind of took
off.
People were like leaning in,calling, what's going on?
(14:34):
What is this?
Tell us more about this, whichis exciting.
And then so it was like, holdon, I'll be right back.
Let's go figure this out.
And then it was really buildinga business.
And the cool part about this hasbeen how we're structured is
very, you know, simple in thatthere's a core team of us that
functions throughout a lot ofthe company.
So we work very much in linewith all of the other divisions,
(14:56):
leaving the divisions to do alot of the work that comes in or
the help on the advocacy piecesof it.
So it's been, it's been, it's anentrepreneurial company within
Wasserman, very much so.
And it's been interesting to beable to build a business within
the business.
And to say that we're one of, ifnot the only, really organic
(15:18):
growth mechanism outside of ourinnovations and ventures.
It's been incredibly exciting.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Yeah, and it also helps to almost create a model
for other.
I mean, the focus on women ishuge and so important.
This is something that could bereplicated for other businesses
within the company.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
Exactly.
And that's what we do.
And not only businesses, butgeographies.
So it is, you know, I wouldn'tsay it's formulaic because it's
incredibly complex in many ways.
But what we do do is we reallythink about if we are to launch
this exact thing, but in adifferent region now, how does
that look and how does thatoperate and how does that shift?
(15:58):
Now, the interest, the mostinteresting part about this,
though, is that as we've beendoing this, the rest of
Wasserman has grownsignificantly.
We've acquired a music agency,we've, or several, we've
acquired, you know, we're nowentering in in the entertainment
space.
We have, you know, other areasof business.
We're grow growing, you know,services left and right.
(16:18):
And so it becomes interesting tofigure out how to keep up with
that at the same time.
You know, because it's not animmediate, like, oh, well, if
you're doing this, then we'rejust gonna, you know, scale like
that.
So it's a never-endingkaleidoscope of fun things to
work on.
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
Yeah, I love that.
Let's take a step back and talka little bit about how you got
to this point.
I know you talked about your 13years, 14 years at Wasserman.
Before that, though, you spent alot of time in the cosmetics and
the beauty industry.
How was that transition and whatis applicable from what you
learned in the beauty industryto what you started doing in the
(16:56):
sports arena?
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
Thanks for asking that because I think actually
people should look at theircareers as what you're learning,
not what you're doing.
And I came out of college movingto Paris only because I had
majored in French and didn'tknow what I wanted to do when I
grew up.
So I was like, let me go see howlong I can last there.
And so I did.
And I ended up working for ABCNews over there as an basically
as an intern and then got kindof paid as like a little helper
(17:21):
to do things around the Bureau.
And then got eventually andoffered a job back in New York
City and really learned how tohustle and learned how to move
quickly and learned how to hitdeadlines because that's, you
know, news goes on at 6:30,whether you're ready or not, and
learned how to operate in anoffice and on a team.
And, you know, breaking news iswildly exciting to also be a
(17:42):
part of when you're young and tosee the kind of managed chaos of
it all.
And then after a while, I wentfrom World News Tonight to Good
Morning America, and and therewere lots of really fun, fun,
great moments within those jobs.
And I learned how to tie thingstogether.
You know, I remember one of myfirst nights as being the
overnight booker is what theycall the position where
(18:03):
everybody goes home for GoodMorning America on the day side,
and I come in and I'm basicallylike, here's the show.
I need to make sure nothingcrazy happens overnight.
Also, maybe have to book some ofthe show.
And some of the coolest storiesI got to work on and the teams
that I got to work with becauseof breaking news and because of
some of the most interestingthings happen.
(18:24):
So I learned how to hustle and Ilearned how to communicate and
how to understand what wasurgent.
And then going forward fromthere, I went into PR where I
that's where I really learned tostorytell was like, how do you
actually create stories and takedifferent disparate information
and make things out of that?
I like to share the story aboutwhere I was working for a brand
(18:47):
and they wanted to, they wantedme to get PR on something that
seemed relatively benign, oflike, you know, it had to do
with a product that waslaunching with a with rubber.
And I was like, oh my gosh, howis this?
This is very hard.
How are we gonna do this?
And there was no 24-hour newscycle.
It was definitely pre-internetto date myself.
And I ultimately just had to gofigure out how to create a trend
(19:08):
out of rubber to go get it done.
And that's what you, you know,it was like, how do I actually
start to plot these things andhow do I tell a story?
And so that when I learn thatand when I'm able to then take
that into my next jobs, which bythe way, everybody needs to
learn.
You need to learn how to sellyourself for a job or sell
yourself for a raise or sellyourself to get the first date
or sell yourself for the sellseason tickets.
I don't know.
(19:29):
It's such an important tool.
And so when I think about, youknow, the jobs that I've had
from there to L'Oreal, where Iworked for seven years, selling
a sponsorship with DaleEarnhardt Jr.
to our senior leadership thatwas definitely not gonna make
money on paper and ended upblowing the doors off in terms
of a nostalgia play that we thatwe did with him to, you know,
(19:49):
moving down to to Charlotte towork for Dale Jr.
eventually and then meetingWasserman.
So it's been it's been a verycircuitous route to the chair I
sit today, but it's been reallyfun.
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:01):
And I want to say too that I'm guessing you also
learned quite a bit aboutstorytelling early in career as
a producer because I know yousaid you were at ABC.
I actually also started as anintern in ABC when I was in
college.
And I did back then, again,dating myself.
I was on the live with Regis andKathy Lee show.
(20:24):
And I remember watching theproducers, and I was an intern,
but watching the producers andrealizing that what they were
really good at was telling astory.
And that was one of the mostinteresting insights I had from
what a producer does, like justfrom being next to them watching
(20:45):
what they get to do day to day.
So I'm sure that also is part ofyour understanding of, and it
just becomes second nature.
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
It's also very nuanced, even to this day.
Like you think about, you know,World News Tonight, and they
have to, you know, that's in astudio.
So that anchor knows that he orshe at the time was projecting
out to an audience of Americansthat may have a high school
diploma or may have a PhD,right?
You have to be able to write tothat audience.
(21:15):
Or you take things today in thisvirtual world where you might be
presenting to a virtual crowdand people in the room, and you
have to be able to land both ofthose.
You have to be able to land likethe person in Spain that might
not really be that connected toyou versus just getting the hot
laugh in the room.
Audience and how you storytellis the number one thing to
really understand who are theyand what do you want them to do
(21:37):
when this is over?
What do you want them to walkaway with?
SPEAKER_01 (21:40):
I just want to ask you a question about that.
In that example where you havethis very diverse set of people
who might be watching,listening, whatever the case may
be, do you have like a designtarget in terms of the
storytelling?
Do you say, okay, I know that Ihave this very wide range of
people who are very different,who might be listening or
(22:03):
watching this.
I am targeting like this righthere, this person or this type
of person with my message.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
Now, for me, I don't look at it as people.
I look at it as what do I wantthem to do?
Even if you're going into sell abrand on a service, you might
have very you might have a chiefof staff to an assistant to the
CMO to the whatever.
So very different people, right?
And ultimately what you want isto think through what do I need
to do to weave a story throughthat's going to make them all
(22:35):
move in the direction I wantthem to move in.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
So if you were thinking about myths maybe of
working in sports or marketingthat you wish more women knew
was not true, what would thatbe?
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
I think one of the myths, which is kind of both
sides of the coin, is that youhave to be a fan of sports to
work in sports.
I'm a fan of sports and I haveplayed sports my whole life, but
you know, Elizabeth Lindsay, whoruns our brands and properties
division globally, is neverreally a fan of sports.
But it's really about thebusiness of sport is so
interesting and the business ofbusiness is so interesting.
(23:13):
And so I don't think you have tobe a fan of insurance to work in
insurance or a fan of healthcareto work in healthcare.
Two industries that would notnecessarily appeal to me to work
in, but it helps if you'reinterested in it, but you don't
have to.
You might just really be excitedabout being in accounting or in
marketing, and that's theproduct that you have.
The other thing I think theopposite side of that though is
(23:35):
that please don't tell us thatyou're a fan and that's why
you're applying, because that'salso not something that really
like gets you in the door.
That's super interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
And I would not have thought that about sports.
I would have thought you kind ofreally need to be at least
somewhat like excited about thesport to work in that sport.
So thinking about the workyou're doing at collective,
where do you want collective tobe in five years from now?
SPEAKER_00 (24:01):
Oh, out of business and for misogyny to be dead and
for women to be equal in everyway.
But I'm not sure based on themillennia of preceding today
that that's the case.
So, what I would like to do isto have the work that we are
building continue to scaleglobally and really leveraging
sport and music andentertainment as a vehicle by
(24:23):
which we can continue to deliverthe advocacy around women's
right to be in the room, women'sright to, you know, have equal
pay, equal time, equaleverything.
Hope that that has a realmeasured outcome for those that
we affect, but also for theclients that are investing.
(24:44):
You know, we're trying toconvince people to invest, and
we want to make sure that thatactually holds water ultimately.
You know, so there's a sense ofobligation on us also to help
bring the whole industry along.
Because if I'm telling you to goinvest in this, I'm giving you
my word that it's worthy ofinvestment.
So, like, how do we then help tocontinue to propel the whole
ecosystem forward?
(25:04):
So I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
Well, because this podcast is called Women of
Influence, what does influencemean to you?
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
For me, it means different things.
And it's it's multifaceted, Ishould say.
So it means the ability to havean audience reconsider their
position on things, move in adirection.
To me, influence is quiet.
It's not forced.
To me, influence comes fromservice in a lot of ways, comes
(25:32):
from a sense of humility.
To me, influence should beshared, really like takes into
consideration the person acrossthe table.
Not necessarily doesn't holdwater for everything.
If you know, we look at thecurrent state of the world.
There are very influentialpeople who influence through
different methods.
And for me, influence isactually more about convincing
(25:53):
good traits, good character,good work.
And hopefully that will stick.
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
Yeah.
But I love the point you madeabout influence really being
effective when it's donequietly.
It's done not as not asobviously and done through
service.
I think that's a reallyinteresting way to think about
it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
I feel very strongly that real power sits in service
of others.
And it's not to say that you'rea doormat.
And that's not to say that youare yesing everybody to death.
It's saying, how am I solving aproblem that is in service of a
greater good?
And in this day and age where weare all attached to our phones,
(26:33):
doom scrolling and thinkingabout, you know, ourselves most
of the time, how can we actuallyspend a fraction of that
thinking about other people andwhat might make their world a
little bit better?
That to me is real power andreal influence if you can be
effective at that.
And so that's where I feel likethe collective, we've made a
little bit of a name forourselves and just doing good
(26:54):
work, quietly, putting it outthere, supporting people, and
hopefully making a differencealong the way.
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
If you could go back and give your younger self who
was just getting started onepiece of advice, what would that
be?
SPEAKER_00 (27:09):
I have an old colleague from my days in NASCAR
who used to say, lighten upSally all the time.
And I would say it's that.
You know, I think in my effortto be ambitious and to be not
perfect, but to really be anachiever of things, like relax.
It's all working out.
And uh it's very hard to do whenyou're in it.
(27:32):
But when you can relax, you canhave more fun, you can kind of
see see around all the corners alittle bit differently.
So that's what I would say.
SPEAKER_01 (27:42):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I have asked
many women this question, and uhthere's a theme for sure.
But I think that what I takeaway from a lot of the answers
to this question uh is that aswomen, I think we are so
earnest.
We want things to be right, wewant to get it right, we want to
(28:04):
do a good job.
And I think that because we wantthat so much, it can be
overwhelming.
And the idea of lightening up, Ihave heard also called it's
gonna be okay, like going backto tell your younger self, just
calm down, it's gonna be okay.
Because we want things to beright, we want it to work out,
(28:27):
and we do, but it doesn't needto be perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (28:30):
And this is the thing is like the
self-perpetuating cycle of whichis again, I think about oh my
gosh, Gen Z, my daughter's a GenZ.
She's gonna inherit they haveliterally inherited the wealth
of the world, and the lastpeople to know it are Gen Z
women.
So all of this good work and allof this great fight that we
have, they're not, they don'teven understand that we've
(28:52):
gotten this far because theydon't know where we've come
from, first of all.
But second of all, we keepperpetuating this like, well, be
a good girl and finish yourwhole worksheet.
Like, do you think the guys aregetting that?
They have to finish the wholeworksheet.
They don't because they're hiredon what their potential is,
where we're always hired on ourpast performance.
We at this generation need tostop perpetuating that in the
(29:14):
workplace and just say, that'sgood enough.
Keep going, keep going, give theopportunity to young women who
can really reach for the goldenring.
SPEAKER_01 (29:21):
That was so well articulated because I've heard
again, people say this indifferent ways about how men
apply for jobs when they havemaybe 40% of the requirements
for that job, and women waittill they have a hundred percent
of the requirements to thinkthat they can apply for the job.
But you saying men are hiredbased on their potential, and
(29:43):
women are hired based on whatthey've done.
And that is a really good way toarticulate that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
And it's also exhausting because then we feel
like we have to make sure thatyou know everything is done,
dusted, the laundry's folded,put away, kids are fed, vet
based, blah blah.
And now I can be perfect andmaybe.
Apply for the job.
Like, really?
Come on.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
Wow.
Well, thank you so much forspending this time with us today
and sharing so many greatinsights.
And you do get to work in anarea that I think people find
really interesting and certainlysomething that they might want
to like pursue or kind of worktheir way towards.
So getting some insights aboutwhat it's like to work in your
(30:28):
space, I think is going to bereally interesting for people.
So thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
Thank you for having me.
And uh what a gift to be able todo this every day and to meet
people like you.
SPEAKER_01 (30:36):
Keep up the good work.
Thank you.
And same to you.
Thanks.
I would actually argue that it's not that women
all of a sudden appeared on thescene.
It's that more women were giventhe stage to appear on the
scene.
They've always been there.
But now all of a sudden it'sreally become cool to say, oh, I
know this hockey player or Iknow this softball player.
And that's what a gift.
SPEAKER_01 (00:31):
Today's episode is one that I'm very excited to
share with you because if youare like me and years ago, you
watched the movie Jerry Maguireand were fascinated by sports
talent agents, right?
Just the people who are agentsto top elite athletes, then this
episode I think is gonna be upyour alley.
(00:54):
We have on Thayer Lavielle.
Thayer is a managing director atWasterman and the leader of the
collective.
If you're not familiar withWesterman, they're one of the
world's largest sports, music,and entertainment agencies.
They represent talent acrosssports, music, entertainment.
(01:14):
And the collective inparticular, which is what Thayer
is leading, is this unbelievablyexciting project where they are
building the case study forwomen, or the business case, I
should say, for women asathletes, musicians, and
entertainers, and then theaudiences that are interested
(01:37):
and the fans that go along withthat.
We talked today about what thatmeans and how Sayer and her team
are helping to really show thepower of women as athletes and
also their fans.
We talk about why women asaudiences, as fans, are so
important.
And when you really look at thenumbers in terms of how much
(02:00):
women have the ability to spend,it is a no-brainer for why
companies should be investing.
And we talk about the way thatThayer and her team are really
using research and insights andtheir campaigns that they're
running to help companies andleaders in those companies
understand the power of women asfans, consumers, and cultural
(02:22):
drivers.
In this conversation, we talkabout what has propelled women's
sports into the spotlight, howathletes are building deeper fan
connections than ever before,how social media plays a role in
that, and why true influence isreally rooted in service and
impact.
So, with that, I'm gonna let youhear my terrific conversation
(02:45):
with Thayer.
Here we go.
SPEAKER_00 (02:50):
Thayer, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's nice to meet you.
SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
It's great to meet you two.
And I, as we were saying beforewe just started recording, I
can't believe we haven't metalready just because of the
passion and the focus that youhave for the women's market.
Let's get into what is thecollective which you are
running.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
Yeah, thank you.
The collective is reallyWasserman's, which is a global
sports entertainment agency.
It's our focus on how to reallypush and advance the power of
women by driving businessrationale.
So, like, how do you actually dothat?
We sit there across ourrepresentation business where we
represent athletes, artists,entertainers, broadcasters,
(03:31):
coaches, and we think across ourbrands and properties division
and our kind of marketingservices division.
We wanted to look across andfind out how do we leverage the
best of all of these things tojust make the world a better
place through all of the assetsthat we have.
This was about seven years agowhen we've really first started
leaning into it.
And about a little over sixyears ago, we launched it.
(03:52):
And I was, you know, engaged inthe conversation to begin with.
And I can't remember if I wasvoluntoled or I think I
volunteered to just, you know,let me go help sort this out.
And there were several of ustalking about this and like how
there was just opportunity toreally lean in and do more for
women across as executives,athletes.
At that point, we were onlyathletes, so we were a sports
(04:14):
agency at the time for fans andconsumers, most importantly, to
our earlier conversation beforewe started to record on the
transfer of wealth and reallythinking about what does she
want as a fan and as a consumerand how do we really understand
her?
Because if we can understandher, then we can make the world
a better place using all of theresearch and insights, using all
of the tools that we have or candevelop.
(04:36):
And so the collective reallyaims to serve the broader
industry to that end.
So, how can we ensure that everyexecutive that's out there with
a budget can sit there and makea rational case for why to
invest in women, whether they'refans, whether they're consumers,
whether they're women's sports,whether they're women in music,
whatever that is.
And so that's the reason we getto come to work every day, which
(04:58):
is a privilege, candidly.
SPEAKER_01 (05:00):
It's unbelievable to me how misunderstood the women's
market is.
So, for example, becauseWasserman has its roots as
sports agents and reallyunderstands that like very well,
the sports arena.
Do women watch sports?
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
Oh, yeah.
We're watching a lot of sports.
In fact, we did a study lastyear around global fandom of
women who are fans of sport, notjust women's sport, but fans of
every sport.
And 72% of us around the world,out of 10 countries, 35,000
respondents said we are actuallyavid fans of sport, not just
fans, but avid.
(05:37):
And one in four of those feellike sports is one of the most
important things in their life.
So this is why we exist is thatwe are controlling 85% of
purchasing decisions.
We're going to own 75% ofdiscretionary wealth around the
world.
We are, you know, enormoussports fans, enormous music
fans, enormously passionateabout brands that are aligned
(05:59):
with those athletes and artiststhat we follow.
And we are also avidly andpassionately aligned with brands
that actually stand up formaking the world a better place.
And so when those thingsconverge on the kind of
industries of sport and musicand entertainment, it's a really
fun place to be a part of aswe're trying to build more and
more research insights,campaigns, strategies, you know,
(06:23):
whatever everybody needs to gokind of tip them over into
investing.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
So you've said you've been working in the space
in the collective in around sixor seven years.
Yeah.
What has changed in that time,or were there some inflection
points?
Whether it's, you know, maybethe fact the headlines that the
women's soccer team made whenthey were able to get their pay,
were there some inflectionpoints that you observed?
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
Yeah, totally.
Too many to count candidly.
What's been really fun to see issince we launched the
collective.
And by the way, Wasserman hasbeen representing women athletes
since 2002 or 2003.
So we have been at this for along time, long before it was
cool or the thing to do.
And so when we think about thoseinflection points, many of them
(07:08):
have come in the last fiveyears.
That might be anything fromduring the pandemic where
everybody is kind of hunkereddown.
All of a sudden we're allstaring at our phones all the
time and understanding, like,hey, how does you know April
Ross keep fit for her volleyballcareer?
How does this Olympian do X, Y,and Z?
What does that person eat forbreakfast?
And then all of a sudden you'releaning in to see, well, are
(07:30):
these women any playing theirgame?
And lo and behold, they'reactually, it's really
competitive and fun to watch.
And now we're all watching themplay in a bubble or a wobble, as
the WNBA called it.
And oh my gosh, they're superfun to watch.
And then they're also coming outwith social justice messages and
messages of equality andfairness, which they still are
doing within the W.
And so there's these inflectionpoints in professional sports.
(07:52):
And then there are theseinflection points, even just
recently, where the Lioness hasjust won the Euros again, to see
sold-out stadiums across all ofSwitzerland to really having
this moment within the UK marketin particular around the power
of women athletes and what thatmeans.
Now, there's also things likeSedona Prince came out with, I
(08:12):
can't remember the year, maybe2022, a video around that kind
of showcased the fact that atthe NCAA March Madness, the
women's gym was literally asmall like hotel room weight
rack, and the men's was like anentire gym filled with different
weight racks and stuff, muchmore serious kind of setup.
And so that led to an enormousamount of equalizing on the
(08:35):
college level, which then turnedinto more people leaning in to
say, Oh, hold on, these womencannot play ball.
And that led to an incrediblefeature around Caitlin Clark,
who is arguably one of the bestplayers ever to play at her
young age and so really fun towatch and really all of a sudden
turned on a whole new fan base.
And then when these casual fansstart coming in and they say,
Oh, wow, these women canactually play soccer,
(08:56):
basketball, softball, lacrosse,whatever it is, it becomes a
really different conversationfor us as business people trying
to get people to engage for thembecause they're watching it on
Saturday or Sunday all of asudden.
They're not just like, what areyou talking about?
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (09:12):
Well, right.
And I'm glad you brought upCaitlin Clark because I think
she's a great example of howthese female athletes are
becoming part of the popularculture in a way that only
previously male athletes havereally been.
And it's this memento and thefact that you have so many
people that Caitlin Clark ispart now of a very broad
(09:35):
conversation going on in thiscountry in terms of how she
plays and what's going on in thesport.
So ultimately, if they see thatpeople are engaged in this
sport, they're actually talkingabout these athletes.
That I think is also a prettycompelling business proposition
for them.
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
Not only compelling, but in the world of women's
sports in the past five years,it has come to light.
We did a study with RBC actuallythat shed the light on the fact
that men make 21 times more thanwomen athletes on the field of
play across a myriad of sports,from golf to tennis to
basketball, et cetera, soccer.
21 times.
(10:12):
Okay, well, to be expected,right?
But that's really frustratingwhen you are toiling away trying
to play professional soccer orbasketball or whatever, and you
are trying just as hard andputting in just as much time and
playing just as hard, and all ofa sudden that's the discrepancy.
Now, these are businesses.
We're not saying that theyshould be paid equally.
What we are saying is we'd liketo restructure how some of this
(10:36):
is looking in terms of some ofthe deal making across the
different leagues to be able togive women athletes a bit more
of the revenue becauseultimately they then have to go
make 82% of their income off thefield of play.
And that is where they reallydive into social media and where
they have started to build theiraudiences and become closer.
So in that report, it actuallyturns out that women athletes
(10:57):
are two times as engaging thantheir male counterparts because
they have to go deeper.
They have to build this loyaltywith their fans that men
athletes don't necessarily haveto do.
And I would I would actuallyargue that it's not that women
all of a sudden appeared on thescene.
It's that more women were giventhe stage to appear on the
(11:17):
scene.
They've always been there.
But now all of a sudden it'sreally become cool to say, oh, I
know this hockey player or Iknow this softball player, and
that's what a gift.
SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
Yeah.
So if you think about thismomentum that women's sports are
really gaining, what do youthink is really driving the
cultural shift?
SPEAKER_00 (11:36):
Oh, I think it's a lot of things.
I think it's these culturalmoments where it's the Euros,
it's the Olympics, it's FinalFour, it's all stars, it's these
kind of heat moments, which aresuper fun.
It's star power.
These, you know, all of a suddenwe're paying more attention to
the various stars of any givensport.
And by the way, globally, it iscompletely varied.
So who's really shining inIndian Premier League cricket is
(11:58):
very different than obviouslywho's shining lioness's
perspective or red roses or toanybody here.
I think it's also that there isreally this influx of major
investment coming into women'ssports from venture capital to
private equity, new ownership,new valuations rising, which is
very exciting.
So that kind of brings up a lotof, you know, a lot of interest.
And then when that happens, moreand more brands say, hold on,
(12:21):
what's going on here that thesebillionaires are starting to put
their money in?
They seem to be pretty adept atmaking money because they're
billionaires.
So how can we actuallyunderstand what if we have a
role to support within thisspace?
And then I think a lot of theplatforms like the to view it is
becoming more accessible.
The there's not a lot ofgatekeepers anymore because
you're able to watch thesesports and look at these
(12:43):
athletes in all over the place.
And so that becomes a thebarriers of entry are just
lessened, which makes the fansdemand more accessibility.
So I think it's a myriad offactors.
I don't think it's oneparticular thing.
SPEAKER_01 (12:56):
So if you were thinking about you have built a
brand within Wasserman.
So if people are not familiarwith Wasserman, pretty well
known in terms of in terms ofthe background, the sports
agents and representing talent.
Lots of people in the marketingadvertising industry are aware,
(13:16):
are familiar with Wasserman, butyou're building a brand within a
brand.
So can you talk a little bitabout what that's like?
And there's probably hard partsabout that and easier things
about it, but talk a little bitabout what that's like.
SPEAKER_00 (13:30):
Yeah, thanks.
I've been here for 14 years,which to me seems like a
credible lifetime to say that,but it has gone by so quickly
because we as a company havegrown largely by acquisition.
And so when you're growinglargely by acquisition, the
growth comes in, you know, fitsand spurts that are small bites
or big bites to, and I've workedon different areas of that
(13:52):
business.
So I've worked in our brands andproperties division where I kind
of came up uh working on thingslike American Express, which I
think you you had worked atbefore, and have worked in our
corporate office where I helpeddo a lot of business
development, special projects,opened our office in in
Shanghai.
And then I moved over to be theCOO of several of our talent
(14:13):
divisions.
And so at the time it was veryrare to have somebody who had
worked across the business likethat when we started the
collective.
And it felt like a bit of a anexercise or a project of like,
hey, how could we even thinkabout creating something that
would be additive to all of ourbusiness?
And then as soon as we were outof the gate, it kind of took
off.
People were like leaning in,calling, what's going on?
(14:34):
What is this?
Tell us more about this, whichis exciting.
And then so it was like, holdon, I'll be right back.
Let's go figure this out.
And then it was really buildinga business.
And the cool part about this hasbeen how we're structured is
very, you know, simple in thatthere's a core team of us that
functions throughout a lot ofthe company.
So we work very much in linewith all of the other divisions,
(14:56):
leaving the divisions to do alot of the work that comes in or
the help on the advocacy piecesof it.
So it's been, it's been, it's anentrepreneurial company within
Wasserman, very much so.
And it's been interesting to beable to build a business within
the business.
And to say that we're one of, ifnot the only, really organic
(15:18):
growth mechanism outside of ourinnovations and ventures.
It's been incredibly exciting.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Yeah, and it also helps to almost create a model
for other.
I mean, the focus on women ishuge and so important.
This is something that could bereplicated for other businesses
within the company.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
Exactly.
And that's what we do.
And not only businesses, butgeographies.
So it is, you know, I wouldn'tsay it's formulaic because it's
incredibly complex in many ways.
But what we do do is we reallythink about if we are to launch
this exact thing, but in adifferent region now, how does
that look and how does thatoperate and how does that shift?
(15:58):
Now, the interest, the mostinteresting part about this,
though, is that as we've beendoing this, the rest of
Wasserman has grownsignificantly.
We've acquired a music agency,we've, or several, we've
acquired, you know, we're nowentering in in the entertainment
space.
We have, you know, other areasof business.
We're grow growing, you know,services left and right.
(16:18):
And so it becomes interesting tofigure out how to keep up with
that at the same time.
You know, because it's not animmediate, like, oh, well, if
you're doing this, then we'rejust gonna, you know, scale like
that.
So it's a never-endingkaleidoscope of fun things to
work on.
SPEAKER_01 (16:33):
Yeah, I love that.
Let's take a step back and talka little bit about how you got
to this point.
I know you talked about your 13years, 14 years at Wasserman.
Before that, though, you spent alot of time in the cosmetics and
the beauty industry.
How was that transition and whatis applicable from what you
learned in the beauty industryto what you started doing in the
(16:56):
sports arena?
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
Thanks for asking that because I think actually
people should look at theircareers as what you're learning,
not what you're doing.
And I came out of college movingto Paris only because I had
majored in French and didn'tknow what I wanted to do when I
grew up.
So I was like, let me go see howlong I can last there.
And so I did.
And I ended up working for ABCNews over there as an basically
as an intern and then got kindof paid as like a little helper
(17:21):
to do things around the Bureau.
And then got eventually andoffered a job back in New York
City and really learned how tohustle and learned how to move
quickly and learned how to hitdeadlines because that's, you
know, news goes on at 6:30,whether you're ready or not, and
learned how to operate in anoffice and on a team.
And, you know, breaking news iswildly exciting to also be a
(17:42):
part of when you're young and tosee the kind of managed chaos of
it all.
And then after a while, I wentfrom World News Tonight to Good
Morning America, and and therewere lots of really fun, fun,
great moments within those jobs.
And I learned how to tie thingstogether.
You know, I remember one of myfirst nights as being the
overnight booker is what theycall the position where
(18:03):
everybody goes home for GoodMorning America on the day side,
and I come in and I'm basicallylike, here's the show.
I need to make sure nothingcrazy happens overnight.
Also, maybe have to book some ofthe show.
And some of the coolest storiesI got to work on and the teams
that I got to work with becauseof breaking news and because of
some of the most interestingthings happen.
(18:24):
So I learned how to hustle and Ilearned how to communicate and
how to understand what wasurgent.
And then going forward fromthere, I went into PR where I
that's where I really learned tostorytell was like, how do you
actually create stories and takedifferent disparate information
and make things out of that?
I like to share the story aboutwhere I was working for a brand
(18:47):
and they wanted to, they wantedme to get PR on something that
seemed relatively benign, oflike, you know, it had to do
with a product that waslaunching with a with rubber.
And I was like, oh my gosh, howis this?
This is very hard.
How are we gonna do this?
And there was no 24-hour newscycle.
It was definitely pre-internetto date myself.
And I ultimately just had to gofigure out how to create a trend
(19:08):
out of rubber to go get it done.
And that's what you, you know,it was like, how do I actually
start to plot these things andhow do I tell a story?
And so that when I learn thatand when I'm able to then take
that into my next jobs, which bythe way, everybody needs to
learn.
You need to learn how to sellyourself for a job or sell
yourself for a raise or sellyourself to get the first date
or sell yourself for the sellseason tickets.
I don't know.
(19:29):
It's such an important tool.
And so when I think about, youknow, the jobs that I've had
from there to L'Oreal, where Iworked for seven years, selling
a sponsorship with DaleEarnhardt Jr.
to our senior leadership thatwas definitely not gonna make
money on paper and ended upblowing the doors off in terms
of a nostalgia play that we thatwe did with him to, you know,
(19:49):
moving down to to Charlotte towork for Dale Jr.
eventually and then meetingWasserman.
So it's been it's been a verycircuitous route to the chair I
sit today, but it's been reallyfun.
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (20:01):
And I want to say too that I'm guessing you also
learned quite a bit aboutstorytelling early in career as
a producer because I know yousaid you were at ABC.
I actually also started as anintern in ABC when I was in
college.
And I did back then, again,dating myself.
I was on the live with Regis andKathy Lee show.
(20:24):
And I remember watching theproducers, and I was an intern,
but watching the producers andrealizing that what they were
really good at was telling astory.
And that was one of the mostinteresting insights I had from
what a producer does, like justfrom being next to them watching
(20:45):
what they get to do day to day.
So I'm sure that also is part ofyour understanding of, and it
just becomes second nature.
SPEAKER_00 (20:55):
It's also very nuanced, even to this day.
Like you think about, you know,World News Tonight, and they
have to, you know, that's in astudio.
So that anchor knows that he orshe at the time was projecting
out to an audience of Americansthat may have a high school
diploma or may have a PhD,right?
You have to be able to write tothat audience.
(21:15):
Or you take things today in thisvirtual world where you might be
presenting to a virtual crowdand people in the room, and you
have to be able to land both ofthose.
You have to be able to land likethe person in Spain that might
not really be that connected toyou versus just getting the hot
laugh in the room.
Audience and how you storytellis the number one thing to
really understand who are theyand what do you want them to do
(21:37):
when this is over?
What do you want them to walkaway with?
SPEAKER_01 (21:40):
I just want to ask you a question about that.
In that example where you havethis very diverse set of people
who might be watching,listening, whatever the case may
be, do you have like a designtarget in terms of the
storytelling?
Do you say, okay, I know that Ihave this very wide range of
people who are very different,who might be listening or
(22:03):
watching this.
I am targeting like this righthere, this person or this type
of person with my message.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
Now, for me, I don't look at it as people.
I look at it as what do I wantthem to do?
Even if you're going into sell abrand on a service, you might
have very you might have a chiefof staff to an assistant to the
CMO to the whatever.
So very different people, right?
And ultimately what you want isto think through what do I need
to do to weave a story throughthat's going to make them all
(22:35):
move in the direction I wantthem to move in.
SPEAKER_01 (22:37):
So if you were thinking about myths maybe of
working in sports or marketingthat you wish more women knew
was not true, what would thatbe?
SPEAKER_00 (22:51):
I think one of the myths, which is kind of both
sides of the coin, is that youhave to be a fan of sports to
work in sports.
I'm a fan of sports and I haveplayed sports my whole life, but
you know, Elizabeth Lindsay, whoruns our brands and properties
division globally, is neverreally a fan of sports.
But it's really about thebusiness of sport is so
interesting and the business ofbusiness is so interesting.
(23:13):
And so I don't think you have tobe a fan of insurance to work in
insurance or a fan of healthcareto work in healthcare.
Two industries that would notnecessarily appeal to me to work
in, but it helps if you'reinterested in it, but you don't
have to.
You might just really be excitedabout being in accounting or in
marketing, and that's theproduct that you have.
The other thing I think theopposite side of that though is
(23:35):
that please don't tell us thatyou're a fan and that's why
you're applying, because that'salso not something that really
like gets you in the door.
That's super interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (23:44):
And I would not have thought that about sports.
I would have thought you kind ofreally need to be at least
somewhat like excited about thesport to work in that sport.
So thinking about the workyou're doing at collective,
where do you want collective tobe in five years from now?
SPEAKER_00 (24:01):
Oh, out of business and for misogyny to be dead and
for women to be equal in everyway.
But I'm not sure based on themillennia of preceding today
that that's the case.
So, what I would like to do isto have the work that we are
building continue to scaleglobally and really leveraging
sport and music andentertainment as a vehicle by
(24:23):
which we can continue to deliverthe advocacy around women's
right to be in the room, women'sright to, you know, have equal
pay, equal time, equaleverything.
Hope that that has a realmeasured outcome for those that
we affect, but also for theclients that are investing.
(24:44):
You know, we're trying toconvince people to invest, and
we want to make sure that thatactually holds water ultimately.
You know, so there's a sense ofobligation on us also to help
bring the whole industry along.
Because if I'm telling you to goinvest in this, I'm giving you
my word that it's worthy ofinvestment.
So, like, how do we then help tocontinue to propel the whole
ecosystem forward?
(25:04):
So I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (25:06):
Well, because this podcast is called Women of
Influence, what does influencemean to you?
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
For me, it means different things.
And it's it's multifaceted, Ishould say.
So it means the ability to havean audience reconsider their
position on things, move in adirection.
To me, influence is quiet.
It's not forced.
To me, influence comes fromservice in a lot of ways, comes
(25:32):
from a sense of humility.
To me, influence should beshared, really like takes into
consideration the person acrossthe table.
Not necessarily doesn't holdwater for everything.
If you know, we look at thecurrent state of the world.
There are very influentialpeople who influence through
different methods.
And for me, influence isactually more about convincing
(25:53):
good traits, good character,good work.
And hopefully that will stick.
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
Yeah.
But I love the point you madeabout influence really being
effective when it's donequietly.
It's done not as not asobviously and done through
service.
I think that's a reallyinteresting way to think about
it.
SPEAKER_00 (26:11):
I feel very strongly that real power sits in service
of others.
And it's not to say that you'rea doormat.
And that's not to say that youare yesing everybody to death.
It's saying, how am I solving aproblem that is in service of a
greater good?
And in this day and age where weare all attached to our phones,
(26:33):
doom scrolling and thinkingabout, you know, ourselves most
of the time, how can we actuallyspend a fraction of that
thinking about other people andwhat might make their world a
little bit better?
That to me is real power andreal influence if you can be
effective at that.
And so that's where I feel likethe collective, we've made a
little bit of a name forourselves and just doing good
(26:54):
work, quietly, putting it outthere, supporting people, and
hopefully making a differencealong the way.
I love that.
SPEAKER_01 (27:02):
If you could go back and give your younger self who
was just getting started onepiece of advice, what would that
be?
SPEAKER_00 (27:09):
I have an old colleague from my days in NASCAR
who used to say, lighten upSally all the time.
And I would say it's that.
You know, I think in my effortto be ambitious and to be not
perfect, but to really be anachiever of things, like relax.
It's all working out.
And uh it's very hard to do whenyou're in it.
(27:32):
But when you can relax, you canhave more fun, you can kind of
see see around all the corners alittle bit differently.
So that's what I would say.
SPEAKER_01 (27:42):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I have asked
many women this question, and uhthere's a theme for sure.
But I think that what I takeaway from a lot of the answers
to this question uh is that aswomen, I think we are so
earnest.
We want things to be right, wewant to get it right, we want to
(28:04):
do a good job.
And I think that because we wantthat so much, it can be
overwhelming.
And the idea of lightening up, Ihave heard also called it's
gonna be okay, like going backto tell your younger self, just
calm down, it's gonna be okay.
Because we want things to beright, we want it to work out,
(28:27):
and we do, but it doesn't needto be perfect.
SPEAKER_00 (28:30):
And this is the thing is like the
self-perpetuating cycle of whichis again, I think about oh my
gosh, Gen Z, my daughter's a GenZ.
She's gonna inherit they haveliterally inherited the wealth
of the world, and the lastpeople to know it are Gen Z
women.
So all of this good work and allof this great fight that we
have, they're not, they don'teven understand that we've
(28:52):
gotten this far because theydon't know where we've come
from, first of all.
But second of all, we keepperpetuating this like, well, be
a good girl and finish yourwhole worksheet.
Like, do you think the guys aregetting that?
They have to finish the wholeworksheet.
They don't because they're hiredon what their potential is,
where we're always hired on ourpast performance.
We at this generation need tostop perpetuating that in the
(29:14):
workplace and just say, that'sgood enough.
Keep going, keep going, give theopportunity to young women who
can really reach for the goldenring.
SPEAKER_01 (29:21):
That was so well articulated because I've heard
again, people say this indifferent ways about how men
apply for jobs when they havemaybe 40% of the requirements
for that job, and women waittill they have a hundred percent
of the requirements to thinkthat they can apply for the job.
But you saying men are hiredbased on their potential, and
(29:43):
women are hired based on whatthey've done.
And that is a really good way toarticulate that.
SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
And it's also exhausting because then we feel
like we have to make sure thatyou know everything is done,
dusted, the laundry's folded,put away, kids are fed, vet
based, blah blah.
And now I can be perfect andmaybe.
Apply for the job.
Like, really?
Come on.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (30:05):
Wow.
Well, thank you so much forspending this time with us today
and sharing so many greatinsights.
And you do get to work in anarea that I think people find
really interesting and certainlysomething that they might want
to like pursue or kind of worktheir way towards.
So getting some insights aboutwhat it's like to work in your
(30:28):
space, I think is going to bereally interesting for people.
So thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
Thank you for having me.
And uh what a gift to be able todo this every day and to meet
people like you.
SPEAKER_01 (30:36):
Keep up the good work.
Thank you.
And same to you.
Thanks.
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