January 21, 2025 • 26 mins
In this episode, we dive into a world of storytelling, resilience, and sports with Jamie Mittelman, the voice behind the award-winning podcast Flamebearers.
Flamebearers amplifies the stories of women Olympians and Paralympians from around the world, shining a light on the intersection of sports, gender equity, and human perseverance.
Jamie shares how her Harvard experience and passion for amplifying underrepresented voices led to the creation of this groundbreaking podcast. You’ll hear the inspiration behind Flamebearers and the mission to elevate the stories of women athletes, the challenges faced by women in sports media and how they are breaking barriers, as well as the unique stories for resilience, diversity and triumph by women in athletics.
Episode Highlights:
- The inspiration behind Flamebearers and its mission to elevate the stories of women athletes.
- Challenges faced by female athletes and how they’re breaking through barriers.
- The unique narratives of resilience, diversity, and triumph that make these athletes’ stories unforgettable.
- How storytelling can inspire a new generation of leaders and changemakers.
🎧 Tune in now and follow Jamie & Flamebearers below for more information:
Website: https://flamebearers.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/flamebearers/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a5dMGFv0_Q
Connect with Jamie Mittelman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamiemittelman/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
anyone can tap into, their inner Olympian, their
inner Paralympian, that theattributes that make these women
literally the best in the worldat what they do at their craft
are attributes that anyone canharness, that anyone can tap
into, whether or not you are insports or not.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome back to the show.
Hope you're all having a greatweek so far.
We have a terrific episode foryou today.
In today's day and age, thereare more and more athletes who
are female athletes who aregetting due attention, are
female athletes who are gettingdue attention, and today's guest
, jamie Middleman, is on amission to ensure that we all
know who these amazing femaleathletes are.
(00:52):
Flamebearers is designed toamplify the voices of women,
olympians and Paralympians andJamie does this with such
incredible skill through amazingstorytelling.
On today's episode, jamie willtell us some of the unbelievable
stories of the athletes she hasfeatured in her series.
(01:14):
What I love about Jamie is shehas such a unique ability to
bring the athlete's story tolife, to make us feel like we
are a part of what this athleteis going through and
understanding what hurdlesthey've overcome and let me tell
you there are some significanthurdles that some of these
female athletes who have beenfeatured in Jamie's content in
(01:38):
Flamebearers what they haveovercome to get to where they
are.
You are definitely going towant to check out Flamebearers.
After this, we will have linksto where you can check out the
content.
There are amazing stories ofthese women With that I'm going
to let you hear my conversationwith Jamie.
Here we go, jamie, welcome tothe show.
(02:00):
Thank you for having me, aliza,I'm pumped to be here.
Show.
Thank you for having me, aliza,I'm pumped to be here.
I love what you do and I took atour of some of your amazing
episodes of your podcast andwhat you're trying to do.
So talk to me first about whatis Flamebearers and what
inspired you to start whatyou're doing with Flamebearers.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Absolutely.
I could talk about this forhours.
Flamebearers is the world'sfirst media production company
that specifically tells thestories of the best women
athletes in our world.
So we tell stories in threeways podcasts, like you
mentioned, video production andthe third is live events.
What we do is we center herstory and her words In terms of
(02:41):
why this is needed.
If you take a step back, I callsports media very much a
misnomer.
85% of sports media coveragegoes to men, so that means that
less than 15% of sports mediagoes to women.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Okay, wait, I want to stop you quickly.
When you say media, just sopeople listening to understand,
what do you mean by?
When you say 85% of sportsmedia goes to men, listening to
understand, what do you mean by?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
when you say 85% of sports media goes to men, yep,
what does that mean?
Television, newspapers,magazines.
Social media is significantlychanging the game, but
historically it's editorial andcoverage on television.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Okay, so.
So basically all the shows thatyou see on ESPN or what are all
of those places it's, those areprobably geared towards the men
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I mean growing up love 30 for 30, but there was
only male athletes.
There was no female 30 for 30equivalent.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Such a great series.
I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Outstanding, incredible.
They are literally providingyouth with the ability to see
themselves in those athletes'shoes, and that's kind of our
entire hypothesis is that if youcan see it, you can be it.
So we're trying to provide rolemodels of all backgrounds, be
they religious ability types,different sports, different
nationalities, differentreligions those role models.
(04:04):
So we're kind of broadening theaperture of who's being
featured.
What I was going to say is, ofthat 15% of women, they pretty
much all fit a very narrow mold.
So of the 15% of media coveragethat is out there, the vast
majority of athletes who aregetting covered are white,
able-bodied women who normallyplay soccer or basketball.
(04:25):
And hey, I'm not going to knockon it, that's me.
I'm not a professional athlete,my name is Jamie, I'm from the
Boston area, I have nodisabilities and I played soccer
in college.
So there's only so much I cansay about that.
But I think that there is amassive opportunity to broaden
the pie, that, yes, a Caitlincard can absolutely and should
be featured, but so should anAngel Reese, and that there's
(04:48):
enough room for everyone to havetheir story told.
And it's not an either or.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I think one of the other things about what you're
doing is the timing I feel likeis really good when you think
about some things that havehappened culturally.
You know, you think aboutTaylor Swift and how she has
just she's just huge.
Obviously, she's had thisamazing tour and during the tour
(05:14):
she's been dipping in and outto go to her boyfriend's
football games and it is reallyshowing a lot of these
traditional media, right whenthe media you were talking about
that women are lovers of thesesports, even if they're not
playing the sport themselves.
They are part of the audience.
(05:36):
Has that shifted things interms of what you're hearing and
the interest in what you allare doing?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Absolutely, and we're seeing.
I think one of the other thingsthat Taylor has done so well is
we're seeing the multitudesthat women can hold, that she's
not just a singer-songwriter,she's also a girlfriend, she's
also a sports fan, she's verymuch passionate about her
political views, and I thinkthat that is super important in
terms of what we do, becausewe're not just showing these
women as athletes, but we'rereally talking about who they
(06:05):
are as women and talking aboutthe issues that they care about,
be it motherhood, be it mentalhealth, be it eating disorders,
eating challenges, be it losingtheir period at an early age.
These are the issues that elitefemale athletes talk about and
care about.
And, yes, they go onto thecourt or onto the field or onto
the mountain and they absolutelykill it, but what keeps them up
(06:30):
at night is really these humanthings that every single person
can relate to, whether or notyou've ever played a sport in
your life.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Spark in you that led you to launch this and want to
do this for female athletes.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, I can give you the professional answer and the
personal answer.
I like to share both.
The professional answer wasborn out of need and necessity.
I had been receiving a master'sat the Harvard Kennedy School
as a policy master's and I hadbeen pitching a role actually to
the International OlympicCommittee around their gender
equity work and there wasinterest and excitement.
(07:06):
But then COVID happened and theworld was turned upside down
and I said, well, I'm not justgoing to sit here and twiddle my
thumbs, I'm going to dosomething about this.
So I applied for funding withinthe Harvard ecosystem, built
out a team and launched this,what I thought was going to be
my summer internship.
Six years later, I'm stilldoing this work.
(07:26):
So, it was not the plan.
What I do like to mention onthe personal front is I would
not have had the courage to dothis if I hadn't lost my dad.
So right before I went toHarvard, I had lost my dad to
glioblastoma, which is aterminal brain cancer, and
losing him and then almostlosing my mom within the same
(07:49):
year, I really had a wake-upcall where I said this is not a
dress rehearsal.
We got one shot at this thingcalled life.
I am going to give it my all,and I think before that I
wouldn't say that I was cautious, but I think that I was more
fear-driven, I was morereactionary, and I decided after
(08:10):
that that I was not going tolet fear dictate my professional
and personal decisions.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
On this show.
We've had a few femaleOlympians, We've had gymnastics
Olympians on, We've hadParalympics athletes on as well,
(08:39):
really wanting to achieve andhaving to do it bravely, because
there are so many obstacles inthe way of achieving that type
of success.
So is that part of what you'relike kind of thinking about,
that idea of you know you onlylive this one life, go for it.
(09:00):
You know it's not a dressrehearsal.
Do you see those as a similarmindset?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Absolutely, and I think that's kind of one of the
through lines in all of ourconversations is that anyone can
tap into their inner Olympian,their inner Paralympian, that
the attributes that make thesewomen literally the best in the
world at what they do, at theircraft, are attributes that
anyone can harness, that anyonecan tap into, whether or not you
(09:27):
are in sports or not.
And that is kind of one of ourtake-home messages.
Again, we're not focusing onthe person as an athlete but as
this woman, as an individual, asa human, and I think the
differentiator there is thatpeople can listen to it and they
can relate to it.
They can see little bits ofthemselves in the mirror.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
What are some of those attributes?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, there's so many different ones, one of them you
mentioned.
It's kind of this single-mindedfocus.
It is this ability to prolong,deter, immediate gratification
for their long-term goals.
These individuals have a drivethat is so unbelievably cool to
watch and to learn from.
(10:09):
Essentially, I would also saythat there's this incredible
sense of community, andespecially with women athletes,
of surrounding themselves withpeople who lift them up.
One thing that I've heardrepetitively from people who've
won medals and are standing onthe podium at the Olympics or
the Paralympics, but whatthey're thinking about in their
(10:29):
mind is their mother and theirfather who drove them to
practice.
Their teammate who lifted themup when they were having a bad
day.
Their coach who believed inthem when they were really
struggling.
And it's this sense ofcommunity amongst female
(10:50):
athletes that really lifts themup and makes them successful
when they go through doubts, andit's not a matter of if, it's a
matter of when.
Just like everyone, we all haveour own insecurities.
We all have our ups and downs,but that's something that I like
to call out because I think sooften people see an individual,
and I think many athletes arevery clear about the fact that
(11:13):
it is a village that made themsuccessful.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Can you just quickly talk about what is the
difference between an Olympian,a Paralympian, and how did the
Special Olympics fit into that?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Such a good question, one of the most common sources
of confusion.
So the Paralympics literallymeans parallel to the Olympics.
The Paralympics is forindividuals with physical
disabilities, so Olympians areable-bodied individuals, elite
athletes, paralympians are alsosuper qualified elite athletes
(11:48):
with physical disabilities.
Now the confusion is SpecialOlympics is a completely
separate entity.
It's a nonprofit that workswith individuals with
intellectual impairments.
So Paralympians is physical,special Olympics is intellectual
.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, got it.
Well, that I mean, thank you.
That is helpful.
And if you think about, then,the types of women who you
feature and the stories you'retrying to spotlight, can you
talk a little bit about why youthink it's important to cover a
wide range of athletes, onesmaybe who everybody like
(12:24):
household names, let's say butalso ones that people may not
have heard of Totally?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So to date, we've worked with about 275 different
Olympians and Paralympians from55 different countries, and
we've worked with athletes likea Sue Bird or a Becky Sauerbrunn
or a Caster Semenya.
But for every athlete who's verybig, who people know, who
people recognize, we elevatefive to six different athletes
(12:52):
from lesser known communitieswhere the infrastructure isn't
as strong, where they may nothave had the systemic support,
societally or financially, andwe do that again back to the
idea of role modelship, that ifthey're fighting against A, b
and C, we want to give themevery leg up that we can.
So that's why we work withathletes like Rita Asimwe of
(13:15):
Uganda.
That's why we work withathletes like Rita Simway of
Uganda, or Massima Al-Azada ofAfghanistan, or even Alexa
Moreno of Mexico, who was thefirst person to say that her
infrastructure growing up washorrible, that she fell through
the floor of her gymnasium, shecame in fourth in the vault in
Tokyo and was the top performinggymnast in her country's
history, and she's having totrain in subpar institutions.
(13:38):
So these are the people that,yes, we are absolutely giving
voice to, the individuals whoeveryone knows, and it is a yes,
two thumbs up At the same timefor every individual like that
there's tons more who aregetting overlooked, who I think
we can learn just as much fromCan you maybe talk about one of
(14:00):
your favorite inspiring stories,just to kind of give our
audience a little flavor forwhat you're covering and who
they might hear on your show.
Absolutely, so this question isalways so hard for me because I
feel like I'm having to choosebetween my children.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
But I mentioned Massima Alizada, so Massima is
on the Olympic refugee team.
So, first of all, a lot ofpeople are not familiar with the
fact that there is an Olympicrefugee team, so this features
individuals from war-torncountries who otherwise may not
have the ability to compete inthe Olympics.
Massima is from Afghanistan.
She grew up cycling and, inorder to do so, would dress up
(14:42):
as a man.
So, growing up, women could notbike ride in Afghanistan.
So what she would do is shewould get on her bike every day,
dressed up as a man, and shewould have to have a man in
front of her and a man behindher, because every now and then
a car would pass her and theywould realize that she was
actually a woman.
And what they would do then isthey would hit her, they would
(15:04):
verbally assault her, sometimesthey would pull over and try to
get her to stop riding.
Really horrific stuff.
And Masama did this day in andday out until she qualified for
the Olympics.
Masama did this day in and dayout until she qualified for the
Olympics.
Now, what is so crazy aboutMasama's story, besides the fact
of her resilience andsingle-minded focus to achieve
(15:26):
her dream?
Today she uses her platform toelevate the plight of women in
Afghanistan.
Yes, she is an internationalsuperstar.
She is the face of the Olympicrefugee team.
This past summer, she wasactually what's called the chef
de maison.
Essentially, it is the face,the leader of the team platform
(15:59):
to talk about women stuck underTaliban rule in Afghanistan.
Now, I think this is a perfectexample of someone who is
thinking about her communityover herself, but I think it's
also an example of her alwaysremembering where she's from,
even though she's in a verydifferent situation today.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, I mean, if you think about that the story you
just shared with us, also thestory of the woman from Mexico
who is an elite gymnast andshe's falling through the floor
of her gym because it is not afacility that is up to par,
probably for an Olympian levelyou think to yourself that the
(16:37):
amount of fortitude in theirminds that they have to have to
get to where they are,overcoming what they do to
compete at that level, is beyondprobably what it would take for
somebody who is in a placewhere, like the wind is at your
(16:57):
back and everyone's on your side.
They want you to be assuccessful.
You've got state-of-the-artequipment.
You've got all the tools.
No one's pulling over to theside of the road throwing things
at you trying to get you tostop.
You know, doing whatever thesport is that you're doing
Totally.
It's really unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
It's very what these women go through Very different
starting lines and you know theyall end up on the global stage
competing for those titles.
But where they started and howthey got there, their stories
are vastly different.
Alejandra Abar of the DominicanRepublic.
She was the DominicanRepublic's first ever female
para swimmer.
She compared, she said Jamiethe way I understand it in terms
(17:41):
of Paralympians or Olympiansgetting to the game.
She said it's like you take anovernight flight across the
world.
You have some people who areflying in first class and then
you have some people flying incoach.
And that is not to negate thepeople flying in first class.
It is still very hard, but ifyou're sitting in the back of
(18:02):
the airplane in a tiny littleseat fighting for every little
thing that you get and again,not to say that the people in
first class aren't and these areher words she said the journey
to that has very differentchallenges than the journey in
first class.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
It makes you think to yourself that this is exactly
where people are coming fromwhen they say.
We need to show the stories ofthese people who are overcoming
unbelievable things to get wherethey are.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Truly unbelievable.
And if I can share one more,yes, please.
Rita is from Uganda.
She grew up right-handed.
She was celebrating a holidayat her grandmother's house.
Thieves broke in and shedistracted the thieves.
She ran out on the street andthey hacked off her right arm
with a machete.
She woke up in a pool of blood,crawled her way to the local
(19:00):
hospital and essentially todayis the number one para badminton
player in all of Africa.
She relearned how to doabsolutely everything in her
life, from writing to doinglaundry, to cooking, to playing
her sport, and is now the numberone Paralympic badminton player
on the entire continent ofAfrica.
(19:20):
Now, that's an experience thatI have never had.
I cannot relate to it, but I'mgoing to say absolutely.
I'm going to elevate your story.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, resilience I mean the resilience that is
required to do something likethat is unbelievable.
Flamebearers has receivedawards, which is exciting.
You just received a SignalAward for Diversity, equity and
Inclusion.
What do you think has made yourapproach so impactful?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Two things I would say.
When we started doing thisalmost five and a half years ago
, no one else was first of alltelling the stories of elite
women, athletes, but especiallythe aperture of athletes that
we're talking about.
So this broad range of athletes, so as an American woman, not
just featuring other Americanwomen, and there's nothing wrong
(20:15):
with that, but I think thatthere is a whole world of other
women who we could also learnfrom.
So it's a yes and not an eitheror.
And then the other thing Iwould say is how their stories
are being told.
So it's not just the fact ofthat we're covering them, it's
how we're doing it, and I thinkthe difference here is telling
her story and her words.
So what we do is we approachevery interview, every video
(20:41):
with as much from the athlete'sperspective as possible
Throughout the entire process.
They have veto rights, so theycan say hey, jayme, I don't like
this, I don't like yourportrayal of me, and we will not
air it Now.
That's very different than howmost media companies approach a
story, where they have theirdeadlines, they got to get it
out.
But the trust of our communityis the single most important
(21:03):
thing to me and I think as aresult, the athletes feel very
seen and heard.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
What do you hope to accomplish with the work you're
doing with Flamebearers?
Speaker 1 (21:35):
focused, not a lot of diversity when it comes to
ability, for example.
They also work in very specificmediums.
I hope that Flamebearersbecomes the go-to place for
diverse elite female athletesaround the world.
I also hope, from arepresentation perspective, that
young girls and boys now haverole models, who they can look
up to, who look and sound likethem, that you know Rita can now
(21:56):
share her episode in Ugandawith young girls who may have
gone through something similarand they can realize wow, I'm
going to be okay, that's huge tome.
And then the third thing Iwould say is that we continue to
have that 100% hit rate withevery single individual we work
with.
That is paramount to me.
With every single individual wework with.
That is paramount to me.
That every single individual wework with comes away feeling
(22:19):
seen and heard.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
So if you were to think about your five years from
now, where and how would peoplebe able to consume the content,
all of these stories that youare working so hard to create
and to get out there?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That's what I'm really excited about is that is
changing right now.
So right now we're in theprocess of working on a video
documentary series that we areselling to some major networks.
I can't tell you where that'sgoing to live, because we're
still figuring that out.
Right now we have a website,flamebearerscom, which drives to
all of our content which youcan find on YouTube.
(23:03):
You can go to any of yourpodcasting platforms.
You can listen to all of ourepisodes there.
You can also follow along withbehind the scenes stuff on all
of our social media channels, soInstagram, Facebook, TikTok X,
though I still call it Twitter.
So that's kind of where we areright now.
Where we want to go is we hopeyou can find us across all major
(23:27):
streaming platforms.
We hope to be going into morecompany offices, brick and
mortars, hosting more liveevents, bringing the athletes to
the community in person.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Oh, I love that.
And if you go back to whatyou've been talking about I know
you've mentioned it now acouple of times this idea that
if you can see it, you can be itlike that, this inspiration for
younger girls, younger peoplewho are seeing these inspiring
stories, these stories ofunbelievable things that these
(23:59):
athletes are overcoming in orderto get where they're going and
just what can be learned fromthat.
What is Noble Gold?
I'm excited for you and, ofcourse, for these athletes who
you're featuring.
If people want to find you findthe stories, what is the best
way for them to do that?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, first of all, I would love to hear from them.
If there's anything that I saidtoday and it resonates, reach
out to me.
My email, my personal email, isjamie at flamebearerscom.
Shoot me a note.
If there's anything that I saidthat you're like, wow, that
seems super cool, I want to workwith them in some way, shoot me
a note.
You can find us onflamebearerscom.
You can find all of ourepisodes there, all of our video
(24:42):
content, all of our podcastcontent, some highlights from
our live events.
You can also follow along onsocial media.
So all those different channels.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Is there anything coming up that you're super
excited about that you can tellus about?
I know you're working on somedocumentary stuff streaming
services Is there anything youcan tell us about that?
Maybe is that people shouldlook out for.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
What I would say is right now we are in the throes
of producing a new series calledUnedited.
So we heard from our communitythat they just wanted more, that
our historic productionschedule was too slow for them,
that they wanted more stories.
So we launched a series calledUnedited bringing largely
unedited conversations to people.
So you can find that on YouTubeand all podcasting platforms.
(25:27):
What's cool about that seriesis there are women at all stages
of their journey, sohistorically, we've only worked
with athletes who are almostqualified or qualified.
This series is from athleteswho haven't qualified all the
way through to retirement, sowe're catching them at the
entire part of their arc, and Ithink that is also something
that most people don't do.
(25:47):
They only catch them rightbefore they go to the Olympics
or as soon as they come home.
But what?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
happens after they go to the Olympics or as soon as
they come home, but what happensafter?
I love that.
I mean understanding thejourney and before after it's.
It also represents the personin such a well-rounded way.
Well, jamie Middleman, thankyou so much for spending this
time with us today and for allthe work you're doing.
I mean so inspiring, and I amexcited for people to follow the
(26:13):
stories.
See the stories because they'recompelling and we appreciate
what you're doing.
I mean so inspiring and I amexcited for people to follow the
stories.
See the stories because they'recompelling and we appreciate
what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Well, thank you for having me.
I love she Speaks and thinkwhat you're doing is incredible
too.
anyone can tap into, their inner Olympian, their
inner Paralympian, that theattributes that make these women
literally the best in the worldat what they do at their craft
are attributes that anyone canharness, that anyone can tap
into, whether or not you are insports or not.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Welcome back to the show.
Hope you're all having a greatweek so far.
We have a terrific episode foryou today.
In today's day and age, thereare more and more athletes who
are female athletes who aregetting due attention, are
female athletes who are gettingdue attention, and today's guest
, jamie Middleman, is on amission to ensure that we all
know who these amazing femaleathletes are.
(00:52):
Flamebearers is designed toamplify the voices of women,
olympians and Paralympians andJamie does this with such
incredible skill through amazingstorytelling.
On today's episode, jamie willtell us some of the unbelievable
stories of the athletes she hasfeatured in her series.
(01:14):
What I love about Jamie is shehas such a unique ability to
bring the athlete's story tolife, to make us feel like we
are a part of what this athleteis going through and
understanding what hurdlesthey've overcome and let me tell
you there are some significanthurdles that some of these
female athletes who have beenfeatured in Jamie's content in
(01:38):
Flamebearers what they haveovercome to get to where they
are.
You are definitely going towant to check out Flamebearers.
After this, we will have linksto where you can check out the
content.
There are amazing stories ofthese women With that I'm going
to let you hear my conversationwith Jamie.
Here we go, jamie, welcome tothe show.
(02:00):
Thank you for having me, aliza,I'm pumped to be here.
Show.
Thank you for having me, aliza,I'm pumped to be here.
I love what you do and I took atour of some of your amazing
episodes of your podcast andwhat you're trying to do.
So talk to me first about whatis Flamebearers and what
inspired you to start whatyou're doing with Flamebearers.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Absolutely.
I could talk about this forhours.
Flamebearers is the world'sfirst media production company
that specifically tells thestories of the best women
athletes in our world.
So we tell stories in threeways podcasts, like you
mentioned, video production andthe third is live events.
What we do is we center herstory and her words In terms of
(02:41):
why this is needed.
If you take a step back, I callsports media very much a
misnomer.
85% of sports media coveragegoes to men, so that means that
less than 15% of sports mediagoes to women.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Okay, wait, I want to stop you quickly.
When you say media, just sopeople listening to understand,
what do you mean by?
When you say 85% of sportsmedia goes to men, listening to
understand, what do you mean by?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
when you say 85% of sports media goes to men, yep,
what does that mean?
Television, newspapers,magazines.
Social media is significantlychanging the game, but
historically it's editorial andcoverage on television.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Okay, so.
So basically all the shows thatyou see on ESPN or what are all
of those places it's, those areprobably geared towards the men
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I mean growing up love 30 for 30, but there was
only male athletes.
There was no female 30 for 30equivalent.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Such a great series.
I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Outstanding, incredible.
They are literally providingyouth with the ability to see
themselves in those athletes'shoes, and that's kind of our
entire hypothesis is that if youcan see it, you can be it.
So we're trying to provide rolemodels of all backgrounds, be
they religious ability types,different sports, different
nationalities, differentreligions those role models.
(04:04):
So we're kind of broadening theaperture of who's being
featured.
What I was going to say is, ofthat 15% of women, they pretty
much all fit a very narrow mold.
So of the 15% of media coveragethat is out there, the vast
majority of athletes who aregetting covered are white,
able-bodied women who normallyplay soccer or basketball.
(04:25):
And hey, I'm not going to knockon it, that's me.
I'm not a professional athlete,my name is Jamie, I'm from the
Boston area, I have nodisabilities and I played soccer
in college.
So there's only so much I cansay about that.
But I think that there is amassive opportunity to broaden
the pie, that, yes, a Caitlincard can absolutely and should
be featured, but so should anAngel Reese, and that there's
(04:48):
enough room for everyone to havetheir story told.
And it's not an either or.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I think one of the other things about what you're
doing is the timing I feel likeis really good when you think
about some things that havehappened culturally.
You know, you think aboutTaylor Swift and how she has
just she's just huge.
Obviously, she's had thisamazing tour and during the tour
(05:14):
she's been dipping in and outto go to her boyfriend's
football games and it is reallyshowing a lot of these
traditional media, right whenthe media you were talking about
that women are lovers of thesesports, even if they're not
playing the sport themselves.
They are part of the audience.
(05:36):
Has that shifted things interms of what you're hearing and
the interest in what you allare doing?
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Absolutely, and we're seeing.
I think one of the other thingsthat Taylor has done so well is
we're seeing the multitudesthat women can hold, that she's
not just a singer-songwriter,she's also a girlfriend, she's
also a sports fan, she's verymuch passionate about her
political views, and I thinkthat that is super important in
terms of what we do, becausewe're not just showing these
women as athletes, but we'rereally talking about who they
(06:05):
are as women and talking aboutthe issues that they care about,
be it motherhood, be it mentalhealth, be it eating disorders,
eating challenges, be it losingtheir period at an early age.
These are the issues that elitefemale athletes talk about and
care about.
And, yes, they go onto thecourt or onto the field or onto
the mountain and they absolutelykill it, but what keeps them up
(06:30):
at night is really these humanthings that every single person
can relate to, whether or notyou've ever played a sport in
your life.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Spark in you that led you to launch this and want to
do this for female athletes.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, I can give you the professional answer and the
personal answer.
I like to share both.
The professional answer wasborn out of need and necessity.
I had been receiving a master'sat the Harvard Kennedy School
as a policy master's and I hadbeen pitching a role actually to
the International OlympicCommittee around their gender
equity work and there wasinterest and excitement.
(07:06):
But then COVID happened and theworld was turned upside down
and I said, well, I'm not justgoing to sit here and twiddle my
thumbs, I'm going to dosomething about this.
So I applied for funding withinthe Harvard ecosystem, built
out a team and launched this,what I thought was going to be
my summer internship.
Six years later, I'm stilldoing this work.
(07:26):
So, it was not the plan.
What I do like to mention onthe personal front is I would
not have had the courage to dothis if I hadn't lost my dad.
So right before I went toHarvard, I had lost my dad to
glioblastoma, which is aterminal brain cancer, and
losing him and then almostlosing my mom within the same
(07:49):
year, I really had a wake-upcall where I said this is not a
dress rehearsal.
We got one shot at this thingcalled life.
I am going to give it my all,and I think before that I
wouldn't say that I was cautious, but I think that I was more
fear-driven, I was morereactionary, and I decided after
(08:10):
that that I was not going tolet fear dictate my professional
and personal decisions.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
On this show.
We've had a few femaleOlympians, We've had gymnastics
Olympians on, We've hadParalympics athletes on as well,
(08:39):
really wanting to achieve andhaving to do it bravely, because
there are so many obstacles inthe way of achieving that type
of success.
So is that part of what you'relike kind of thinking about,
that idea of you know you onlylive this one life, go for it.
(09:00):
You know it's not a dressrehearsal.
Do you see those as a similarmindset?
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Absolutely, and I think that's kind of one of the
through lines in all of ourconversations is that anyone can
tap into their inner Olympian,their inner Paralympian, that
the attributes that make thesewomen literally the best in the
world at what they do, at theircraft, are attributes that
anyone can harness, that anyonecan tap into, whether or not you
(09:27):
are in sports or not.
And that is kind of one of ourtake-home messages.
Again, we're not focusing onthe person as an athlete but as
this woman, as an individual, asa human, and I think the
differentiator there is thatpeople can listen to it and they
can relate to it.
They can see little bits ofthemselves in the mirror.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
What are some of those attributes?
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, there's so many different ones, one of them you
mentioned.
It's kind of this single-mindedfocus.
It is this ability to prolong,deter, immediate gratification
for their long-term goals.
These individuals have a drivethat is so unbelievably cool to
watch and to learn from.
(10:09):
Essentially, I would also saythat there's this incredible
sense of community, andespecially with women athletes,
of surrounding themselves withpeople who lift them up.
One thing that I've heardrepetitively from people who've
won medals and are standing onthe podium at the Olympics or
the Paralympics, but whatthey're thinking about in their
(10:29):
mind is their mother and theirfather who drove them to
practice.
Their teammate who lifted themup when they were having a bad
day.
Their coach who believed inthem when they were really
struggling.
And it's this sense ofcommunity amongst female
(10:50):
athletes that really lifts themup and makes them successful
when they go through doubts, andit's not a matter of if, it's a
matter of when.
Just like everyone, we all haveour own insecurities.
We all have our ups and downs,but that's something that I like
to call out because I think sooften people see an individual,
and I think many athletes arevery clear about the fact that
(11:13):
it is a village that made themsuccessful.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Can you just quickly talk about what is the
difference between an Olympian,a Paralympian, and how did the
Special Olympics fit into that?
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Such a good question, one of the most common sources
of confusion.
So the Paralympics literallymeans parallel to the Olympics.
The Paralympics is forindividuals with physical
disabilities, so Olympians areable-bodied individuals, elite
athletes, paralympians are alsosuper qualified elite athletes
(11:48):
with physical disabilities.
Now the confusion is SpecialOlympics is a completely
separate entity.
It's a nonprofit that workswith individuals with
intellectual impairments.
So Paralympians is physical,special Olympics is intellectual
.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Yeah, got it.
Well, that I mean, thank you.
That is helpful.
And if you think about, then,the types of women who you
feature and the stories you'retrying to spotlight, can you
talk a little bit about why youthink it's important to cover a
wide range of athletes, onesmaybe who everybody like
(12:24):
household names, let's say butalso ones that people may not
have heard of Totally?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
So to date, we've worked with about 275 different
Olympians and Paralympians from55 different countries, and
we've worked with athletes likea Sue Bird or a Becky Sauerbrunn
or a Caster Semenya.
But for every athlete who's verybig, who people know, who
people recognize, we elevatefive to six different athletes
(12:52):
from lesser known communitieswhere the infrastructure isn't
as strong, where they may nothave had the systemic support,
societally or financially, andwe do that again back to the
idea of role modelship, that ifthey're fighting against A, b
and C, we want to give themevery leg up that we can.
So that's why we work withathletes like Rita Asimwe of
(13:15):
Uganda.
That's why we work withathletes like Rita Simway of
Uganda, or Massima Al-Azada ofAfghanistan, or even Alexa
Moreno of Mexico, who was thefirst person to say that her
infrastructure growing up washorrible, that she fell through
the floor of her gymnasium, shecame in fourth in the vault in
Tokyo and was the top performinggymnast in her country's
history, and she's having totrain in subpar institutions.
(13:38):
So these are the people that,yes, we are absolutely giving
voice to, the individuals whoeveryone knows, and it is a yes,
two thumbs up At the same timefor every individual like that
there's tons more who aregetting overlooked, who I think
we can learn just as much fromCan you maybe talk about one of
(14:00):
your favorite inspiring stories,just to kind of give our
audience a little flavor forwhat you're covering and who
they might hear on your show.
Absolutely, so this question isalways so hard for me because I
feel like I'm having to choosebetween my children.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
But I mentioned Massima Alizada, so Massima is
on the Olympic refugee team.
So, first of all, a lot ofpeople are not familiar with the
fact that there is an Olympicrefugee team, so this features
individuals from war-torncountries who otherwise may not
have the ability to compete inthe Olympics.
Massima is from Afghanistan.
She grew up cycling and, inorder to do so, would dress up
(14:42):
as a man.
So, growing up, women could notbike ride in Afghanistan.
So what she would do is shewould get on her bike every day,
dressed up as a man, and shewould have to have a man in
front of her and a man behindher, because every now and then
a car would pass her and theywould realize that she was
actually a woman.
And what they would do then isthey would hit her, they would
(15:04):
verbally assault her, sometimesthey would pull over and try to
get her to stop riding.
Really horrific stuff.
And Masama did this day in andday out until she qualified for
the Olympics.
Masama did this day in and dayout until she qualified for the
Olympics.
Now, what is so crazy aboutMasama's story, besides the fact
of her resilience andsingle-minded focus to achieve
(15:26):
her dream?
Today she uses her platform toelevate the plight of women in
Afghanistan.
Yes, she is an internationalsuperstar.
She is the face of the Olympicrefugee team.
This past summer, she wasactually what's called the chef
de maison.
Essentially, it is the face,the leader of the team platform
(15:59):
to talk about women stuck underTaliban rule in Afghanistan.
Now, I think this is a perfectexample of someone who is
thinking about her communityover herself, but I think it's
also an example of her alwaysremembering where she's from,
even though she's in a verydifferent situation today.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Yeah, I mean, if you think about that the story you
just shared with us, also thestory of the woman from Mexico
who is an elite gymnast andshe's falling through the floor
of her gym because it is not afacility that is up to par,
probably for an Olympian levelyou think to yourself that the
(16:37):
amount of fortitude in theirminds that they have to have to
get to where they are,overcoming what they do to
compete at that level, is beyondprobably what it would take for
somebody who is in a placewhere, like the wind is at your
(16:57):
back and everyone's on your side.
They want you to be assuccessful.
You've got state-of-the-artequipment.
You've got all the tools.
No one's pulling over to theside of the road throwing things
at you trying to get you tostop.
You know, doing whatever thesport is that you're doing
Totally.
It's really unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
It's very what these women go through Very different
starting lines and you know theyall end up on the global stage
competing for those titles.
But where they started and howthey got there, their stories
are vastly different.
Alejandra Abar of the DominicanRepublic.
She was the DominicanRepublic's first ever female
para swimmer.
She compared, she said Jamiethe way I understand it in terms
(17:41):
of Paralympians or Olympiansgetting to the game.
She said it's like you take anovernight flight across the
world.
You have some people who areflying in first class and then
you have some people flying incoach.
And that is not to negate thepeople flying in first class.
It is still very hard, but ifyou're sitting in the back of
(18:02):
the airplane in a tiny littleseat fighting for every little
thing that you get and again,not to say that the people in
first class aren't and these areher words she said the journey
to that has very differentchallenges than the journey in
first class.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
It makes you think to yourself that this is exactly
where people are coming fromwhen they say.
We need to show the stories ofthese people who are overcoming
unbelievable things to get wherethey are.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Truly unbelievable.
And if I can share one more,yes, please.
Rita is from Uganda.
She grew up right-handed.
She was celebrating a holidayat her grandmother's house.
Thieves broke in and shedistracted the thieves.
She ran out on the street andthey hacked off her right arm
with a machete.
She woke up in a pool of blood,crawled her way to the local
(19:00):
hospital and essentially todayis the number one para badminton
player in all of Africa.
She relearned how to doabsolutely everything in her
life, from writing to doinglaundry, to cooking, to playing
her sport, and is now the numberone Paralympic badminton player
on the entire continent ofAfrica.
(19:20):
Now, that's an experience thatI have never had.
I cannot relate to it, but I'mgoing to say absolutely.
I'm going to elevate your story.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, resilience I mean the resilience that is
required to do something likethat is unbelievable.
Flamebearers has receivedawards, which is exciting.
You just received a SignalAward for Diversity, equity and
Inclusion.
What do you think has made yourapproach so impactful?
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Two things I would say.
When we started doing thisalmost five and a half years ago
, no one else was first of alltelling the stories of elite
women, athletes, but especiallythe aperture of athletes that
we're talking about.
So this broad range of athletes, so as an American woman, not
just featuring other Americanwomen, and there's nothing wrong
(20:15):
with that, but I think thatthere is a whole world of other
women who we could also learnfrom.
So it's a yes and not an eitheror.
And then the other thing Iwould say is how their stories
are being told.
So it's not just the fact ofthat we're covering them, it's
how we're doing it, and I thinkthe difference here is telling
her story and her words.
So what we do is we approachevery interview, every video
(20:41):
with as much from the athlete'sperspective as possible
Throughout the entire process.
They have veto rights, so theycan say hey, jayme, I don't like
this, I don't like yourportrayal of me, and we will not
air it Now.
That's very different than howmost media companies approach a
story, where they have theirdeadlines, they got to get it
out.
But the trust of our communityis the single most important
(21:03):
thing to me and I think as aresult, the athletes feel very
seen and heard.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
What do you hope to accomplish with the work you're
doing with Flamebearers?
Speaker 1 (21:35):
focused, not a lot of diversity when it comes to
ability, for example.
They also work in very specificmediums.
I hope that Flamebearersbecomes the go-to place for
diverse elite female athletesaround the world.
I also hope, from arepresentation perspective, that
young girls and boys now haverole models, who they can look
up to, who look and sound likethem, that you know Rita can now
(21:56):
share her episode in Ugandawith young girls who may have
gone through something similarand they can realize wow, I'm
going to be okay, that's huge tome.
And then the third thing Iwould say is that we continue to
have that 100% hit rate withevery single individual we work
with.
That is paramount to me.
With every single individual wework with.
That is paramount to me.
That every single individual wework with comes away feeling
(22:19):
seen and heard.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
So if you were to think about your five years from
now, where and how would peoplebe able to consume the content,
all of these stories that youare working so hard to create
and to get out there?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That's what I'm really excited about is that is
changing right now.
So right now we're in theprocess of working on a video
documentary series that we areselling to some major networks.
I can't tell you where that'sgoing to live, because we're
still figuring that out.
Right now we have a website,flamebearerscom, which drives to
all of our content which youcan find on YouTube.
(23:03):
You can go to any of yourpodcasting platforms.
You can listen to all of ourepisodes there.
You can also follow along withbehind the scenes stuff on all
of our social media channels, soInstagram, Facebook, TikTok X,
though I still call it Twitter.
So that's kind of where we areright now.
Where we want to go is we hopeyou can find us across all major
(23:27):
streaming platforms.
We hope to be going into morecompany offices, brick and
mortars, hosting more liveevents, bringing the athletes to
the community in person.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Oh, I love that.
And if you go back to whatyou've been talking about I know
you've mentioned it now acouple of times this idea that
if you can see it, you can be itlike that, this inspiration for
younger girls, younger peoplewho are seeing these inspiring
stories, these stories ofunbelievable things that these
(23:59):
athletes are overcoming in orderto get where they're going and
just what can be learned fromthat.
What is Noble Gold?
I'm excited for you and, ofcourse, for these athletes who
you're featuring.
If people want to find you findthe stories, what is the best
way for them to do that?
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Yeah, first of all, I would love to hear from them.
If there's anything that I saidtoday and it resonates, reach
out to me.
My email, my personal email, isjamie at flamebearerscom.
Shoot me a note.
If there's anything that I saidthat you're like, wow, that
seems super cool, I want to workwith them in some way, shoot me
a note.
You can find us onflamebearerscom.
You can find all of ourepisodes there, all of our video
(24:42):
content, all of our podcastcontent, some highlights from
our live events.
You can also follow along onsocial media.
So all those different channels.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Is there anything coming up that you're super
excited about that you can tellus about?
I know you're working on somedocumentary stuff streaming
services Is there anything youcan tell us about that?
Maybe is that people shouldlook out for.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
What I would say is right now we are in the throes
of producing a new series calledUnedited.
So we heard from our communitythat they just wanted more, that
our historic productionschedule was too slow for them,
that they wanted more stories.
So we launched a series calledUnedited bringing largely
unedited conversations to people.
So you can find that on YouTubeand all podcasting platforms.
(25:27):
What's cool about that seriesis there are women at all stages
of their journey, sohistorically, we've only worked
with athletes who are almostqualified or qualified.
This series is from athleteswho haven't qualified all the
way through to retirement, sowe're catching them at the
entire part of their arc, and Ithink that is also something
that most people don't do.
(25:47):
They only catch them rightbefore they go to the Olympics
or as soon as they come home.
But what?
Speaker 2 (25:51):
happens after they go to the Olympics or as soon as
they come home, but what happensafter?
I love that.
I mean understanding thejourney and before after it's.
It also represents the personin such a well-rounded way.
Well, jamie Middleman, thankyou so much for spending this
time with us today and for allthe work you're doing.
I mean so inspiring, and I amexcited for people to follow the
(26:13):
stories.
See the stories because they'recompelling and we appreciate
what you're doing.
I mean so inspiring and I amexcited for people to follow the
stories.
See the stories because they'recompelling and we appreciate
what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Well, thank you for having me.
I love she Speaks and thinkwhat you're doing is incredible
too.
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