April 15, 2025 • 50 mins
Natasha Silver Bell's journey exemplifies the formidable challenges many women face in overcoming substance abuse and the arduous path to recovery. A former Miss Michigan USA, successful New York model, and mother of three, Natasha battled drug and alcohol addiction while navigating a tumultuous marriage and an unstable career, ultimately leading to a contentious divorce. As she embraced sobriety, her life underwent a significant transformation, reinforcing her understanding that true courage involves taking decisive action despite pervasive fears. Today, Natasha is a preeminent expert in substance use disorder, serving on the board of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and leading her own organization, Silver Bell Global, which assists individuals globally in their recovery journeys. In this episode of Women Road Warriors, Shelley Johnson and Kathy Tuccaro explore her profound insights and the innovative approaches she employs to empower others in their struggles against addiction.
#SilverBellGlobal #NatashaSilverBell #SubstanceUseDisorder #SubstanceAbuse #Addiction #MentalHealth #Women #WomenRoadWarriors #ShelleyMJohnson #ShelleyJohnson #KathyTuccaro
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
This is Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
From the corporate office tothe cab of a truck, they're here
to inspire and empower womenin all professions.
So gear down, sit back, and enjoy.
(00:23):
Welcome.
We're an award winning showtoday dedicated to empowering women
in every profession throughinspiring stories and expert insights.
No topics off limits on our show.
We power women on the road tosuccess with expert and celebrity
interviews and information you need.
I'm Shelly.
And I'm Kathy.
(00:44):
Many women struggle withsubstance abuse.
It's difficult to break freeof addiction.
Natasha Silver Bell has facedmany of those obstacles.
The former Miss Michigan, usa,New York City model and mother of
three struggled with drug andalcohol addiction.
She also had a troubledmarriage, a career path with many
ups and downs, and eventuallya contentious divorce.
(01:07):
Natasha says as she leanedinto her sobriety, her marriage became
even more fragmented and adivorce was a risk as she had no
college degree and also had dyslexia.
Despite all those obstacles,she prevailed and ventured out on
her own.
She learned that courage isnot the absence of fear.
It's taking action despite the fear.
(01:28):
Today, Natasha is a highlyregarded expert in substance use
disorder and recovery.
She's on the board of theNational Council on Alcoholism and
Drug Dependence and serves asan ambassador for Partnership to
end Addiction.
She owns Silverbell Global,which helps people internationally.
Her organization counselspeople with substance use disorders,
eating disorders, personalitydisorders, and other mental health.
(01:52):
Natasha is also a co founderof Youth Prevention Mentors that
empowers young adults throughmentorship and risk mitigation, as
well as the Townhouse, aresidence in New York City that offers
bespoke treatment programstailored to the individual.
Natasha has moved mountainsfor herself and other people.
We have Natasha with us todayto tap into her insight and we're
(02:12):
extremely honored.
Welcome, Natasha.
Thank you for being on theshow with us.
Oh, wow.
Thank you.
I was just listening to therecap of my life story, spoken so
succinctly, and I'm pattingmyself on the back, like, job well
done.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm giving you one virtually too.
Holy man.
(02:33):
Yeah.
You've been a powerhouse,Natasha, and you overcame a lot of
obstacles.
Maybe we could discuss alittle bit about that because women
have different issues,certainly, but I'm sure, you know,
when they're in the middle ofit, it seems like such a mountain.
That is incredibly true.
And just again.
Right.
(02:53):
Take you, taking me back.
Kind of like reliving where Ibegan and where I am now.
And I just didn't think Iwould have the courage to ever do
what it is.
I knew in my then sober mind,as I was coming into my own sobriety
and waking up and seeing thesethree beautiful little children that
I had given birth to, I wasgoing, how would I ever change?
(03:15):
Why would I.
Why would I leave the fatherof their children?
Why?
Why would I do that?
Come on, Natasha, can't youjust get it together?
Come on, Tash.
I would really pep myself upto stay together as a family.
Obviously, I think familiesare really important, but for me,
I was like, why would I takemy children away from their father?
Why would I want to do that?
And that was the internalstruggle, I think, more than anything
(03:37):
else.
Forget the money and the fearof being alone.
All big stressors in the lifeof somebody contemplating a move.
But that intern internalcomfortability of making the move
once decided was really thestruggle within me for many, many
years.
We have to learn to becomfortable with being uncomfortable,
don't we?
Oh, it's so annoyingly true.
(03:59):
Humans like security.
They really do.
Yeah.
Especially as a mom.
You're an or somebody, acaregiver, a loved one, providing
for others.
You want safety, consistency.
And I knew how important thatwould be for my children, and I didn't
have any of that if I was to le.
Leave.
And again, what justificationwould I have for leaving?
(04:20):
That's.
That was the biggest strugglefor me.
Do you think people, whenthey're dealing with substance abuse,
too, one of the reasons thatthey don't stop abusing substances
is because that's also kind ofa comfort zone.
Of course.
Well, habits, you know, I lovequoting Charlie Munger.
He's Warren Buffett's partner,and he says the bonds of addiction
are too loose to be felt untilthey're too tight to be broken.
(04:44):
And for me, I didn't even knowI had a problem.
And when I did wake up to thefact that I was dependent and needing
a substance in my life to feelokay in the day, then I had to wrestle
with that and go, okay, howwould I ever function without this?
What does this even look liketo put a substance down?
And then I would just getscared and run and hide more into
(05:05):
the substance.
To your point.
Sounds so familiar from somany women out there.
People out there, not just women.
It's interesting that you saidthat, because yesterday I had.
For the last two days, I had aconversation with the lady who came
behind my table holding aglass of wine, and she bought a book,
and she was.
We were talking about sobriety.
(05:26):
She says, I can't believe youwent 12 years without a drink.
She says, I just don't believe it.
And I'm like, no, it's been 12 years.
And here she's drinking herwine and sloshing it a little bit.
And I said, when was the lasttime that you didn't.
You did not have a drink?
And she looks at me and shescoffs and laughs and says, I think
it's been about 15 years.
(05:46):
She says, I'm fully aware thatI'm a functioning alcoholic, but
I just choose to drink, andI'm okay with that.
So yesterday we continued ourconversation after the conference
was over in the pool, andagain, she's drinking her wine, and
she says, I cannot imagine aday without alcohol.
And she says, in my life, it's impossible.
(06:09):
So, yeah, no matter what I wastelling her, it was very hard for
her to even understand that concept.
And I.
And I get.
And I get it because, I mean,12 years sober, back when I was drinking,
I couldn't spend 10 minuteswithout going to get a drink.
So I remember.
And so funny you should saythat, too, because I remember when
(06:29):
I was first ContemplatingGetting sober 20 years ago is when
my recovery journey began.
And I would go to 12 stepgroups in New York City, and I would
just kind of put my toe in the water.
I wasn't 100% sober then.
Maybe for that meeting I was,but then I'd go home and drink or
whatever, and I just couldn'tbelieve everybody in those rooms
was sober.
I was like, there's no way.
They're all going homedrinking and using.
(06:49):
And I really, really, reallybelieved that because there was just.
Even though I was raised,ironically, without alcohol or drugs
in our home, it was againstthe religion we were raised in to.
To not drink or even havecaffeine, but yet I ended up in this.
This path.
You know, destiny finds you.
And I had my prodigal son journey.
But the idea that people wouldactually not drink by choice.
(07:10):
So I.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just, you can have fun.
I'm like, I have had way morefun sober than I ever had drunk.
Like, you can't even compare.
I said, now, if.
If it were to come down to it,you were to try to pay me to drink,
I wouldn't even take it.
Forget it.
I don't want it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, same.
(07:31):
So that kind of keeps people stuck.
They rationalize why they'redrinking, and they just look at it
as a hopeless battle.
It's like, whatever, I'm justgonna drink that's part of the addictive
thinking, isn't.
Is from my understanding, youknow it.
Yeah.
How.
How do you.
Until the secret ingredient,people are like, how did you figure
(07:52):
it out?
How did you do it?
One to your point, it's likecourage is fear that said its prayers
kind of mentality.
I had to go against everythingI thought I knew, which was really
nothing other than drinkingand using, and find a group of women
who had walked before me.
And when I found a group ofwomen, a group in New York City and
(08:13):
I was able to make it to them,every Wednesday night, there was
a women's meeting after workat the McGraw Hill building on 6th
Avenue and 49th Street.
And I would make it to thesegroup of women and just be in awe.
They were judges and lawyersand business women and movers and
shake.
And I was like, how are thesereally successful women in the same
room as me?
Like, that's not evenconscionable to me.
(08:35):
But just watching how theymoved before me without judgment,
without proselytizing, withoutlecturing, without telling me, well,
if I just tried harder, noneof that.
And that was the only piecethat really, really, my therapist
was great.
We love, we love havingprofessional help, but it was, it
was, it was those group of women.
Like this, this, this momentwith you is so empowering to hear
(09:00):
what you're telling me, Kathy.
To listen to you, Shelley.
So it's important to havementors, would you say?
I mean, these ladies wereobviously your mentors.
You stood in awe of what theyaccomplished, and you were also awestruck
by the fact that they didn'tjudge you.
Mm.
Having a group of women, Ithink we weren't meant to live this
world alone.
And I know that oftentimespeople say it, but I'll say it again.
(09:23):
You know, connection is theopposite of addiction.
And it is so important to beconnected with like minded people.
And at that, even though thesewomen, to me in a professional realm,
were giants above me, theywere humbling themselves into a commonality
of we were all aligned againstsomething else out there.
(09:43):
And I was able to be a part of that.
And there was no judgment.
And I think that is so important.
I try to approach the peoplewe work with today without any judgment.
And if my story can behelpful, I share it.
And if I don't think it willbe, I don't.
You know, it's interesting.
There's still judgment outthere, even by medical staff.
If somebody has whatever theiraddiction is, they come in because
(10:06):
they need help.
They need to have Something,some sort of medical intervention
because of an opiate addictionor even alcohol, they're not treated
well.
They're treated in a veryjudgmental fashion, which I find
today after all these years ofreeducation, why is there that judgment
out there?
I mean, that keeps peoplestruggling with substance abuse too?
(10:28):
Well, it's shows like yoursthat help illuminate and cross the
quote, unquote layers orboundaries, if there are any, between
people who are in the recoverypath and those who are curious or
those who want to learn morebecause of a family member.
And you're right, the medicalcommunity has a lot of judgment,
especially in institutionslike hospitals or what have you.
And why that is so muchuneducation around it, I don't know.
(10:51):
I think the medical schoolshave a lot to be learning still.
And so when you think abouthow we can really be helpful to other
people, it is the simple actof not judging what a person's choices,
past choices, have led them towhere they are kind of like a cancer
patient.
While we all knowantioxidants, eating well and all
these things can be helpful,it's not a hundred percent preventative,
(11:15):
but it's like, wait a second,to your point, the cancer patient
gets all this royal treatment.
Oh, you poor thing.
Whereas an addict is like, oh,yeah, yeah, yeah, they, they have
to go to rehab.
They chose this.
And I think that's a wholenother show.
Probably we could talk aboutwhether this is a choice or not.
Yeah, our society stilllabels, you know, they're trying
(11:36):
to get away from that, butthat's so marginalizing and it just
keeps people stuck and thereneeds to be the compassion and empathy
all the way across the board.
I have never met somebodywhere I've ever been, quote, unquote,
successful or had a goodconversation or wanted them to learn
more about how to helpthemselves by finding their faults.
(11:59):
That just, it doesn't workwith my kids, work in relationships.
You know, shaking my finger atsomebody has never, you know, they
say you've got a fingerpointing, three fingers pointing
back at yourself.
And you know, it's just, Ihave never.
I was, I was talking to an MITprofessor one time about the state
of affairs in the world, whichI will not get into now.
(12:21):
But the point being that inorder to understand the adversity,
the adversity, the other side,you have to join them first in order
to enlighten them to whatmaybe you have to say.
So I've again, we've nevergotten anywhere by telling somebody,
even a cancer patient, oh,well, X, Y and Z.
That doesn't actually helpthem heal in the moment.
(12:43):
It's just information.
Yeah.
Stay tuned for more of WomenRoad warriors coming up.
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Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
welcome back to Women Roadwarriors with Shelly Johnson and
Kathy Tucaro.
If you're enjoying thisinformative episode of Women Road
(14:08):
Warriors, I wanted to mentionKathy and I explore all kinds of
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We feature a lot of expertinterviews, plus we feature celebrities
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Please check out ourpodcast@womenroadwarriors.com and
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(14:29):
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(14:50):
Many women face the toughbattle of substance abuse, and breaking
free from addiction can feelnearly impossible.
Natasha Silver Bell knows thisstruggle all too well.
Once Ms.
Michigan, USA, a New York Citymodel and a mother of three, she
found herself caught in thegrip of drug and alcohol addiction.
On top of that, she had adifficult marriage, a rollercoaster
(15:11):
career, and ultimately acontentious divorce.
But despite all these hurdles,she found a way to overcome them
and carve out a new path for herself.
Natasha learned that courageisn't about being fearless, it's
about taking action.
Even when you're scared.
Today, she's a respectedexpert in substance use disorder
and recovery.
She's the founder of SilverBell Global, an organization that
(15:32):
helps people around the worldbattling substance use, eating disorders,
personality disorders andother mental health challenges.
Natasha's journey is nothingshort of inspiring.
She's overcome incredible oddsand now she's helping our listeners
do the same.
So, Natasha, when you'reworking with people, what was your
(15:53):
aha moment where you're like,I have got to stop this drinking.
And how did you start doingwhat you're doing today?
I mean, it's just the way you pivoted.
It's just amazing.
It really is God's grace.
I will share with you thefirst aha moment I really ever had.
And I really love this story.
I must have been 23 or 24 andI'm a failing model in New York City.
(16:18):
You know, getting calls andthen not being able to show up is
what I mean by that.
And for jobs.
And then somehow because I wasdrinking and using all night long,
probably six days a week, Iwasn't able to function during the
day until I would just get mynext hit at 4 o'clock.
I would wake up by 4pm andsomehow one of my good girlfriends
that I, somehow I'd had hersince childhood ended up in New York
(16:40):
City modeling too.
And she, she came to my houseand she somehow got me to go to a
yoga class.
Now mind you, at that time,this is 98, 99, I wasn't an exercise
freak.
I wasn't going to exercise classes.
That's not my mo, Let alone yoga.
I'm from the Midwest.
We didn't do yoga in theMidwest in the 80s and 90s.
It just wasn't a thing.
(17:03):
And, and so being in New YorkCity, how she ever was able to convince
me to go, let alone in thatmoment, I was sober before I would
start using that evening.
And she at the end of thisyoga class, I remember the instructor
at the end, what they call his Shavasana.
We were lying down on the matand the instructor said, now close
(17:24):
your eyes and look down intoyour heart and listen.
Oh, the tears that startedrolling out of my eyes.
Just thinking of it now bringsme right back to that moment.
It was the first time Iprobably been using for six years
straight.
I had slowed down enough tolisten to myself, to listen to that
(17:46):
inner, still calm voice thatloves me beyond anything I could
ever imagine.
Call it your inner child, callit your source, God, conscience.
And I listened and I justcried and what it said to me was,
please stop doing this to us.
And I'll never forget it.
(18:06):
It said, this isn't who you are.
That's powerful.
That is.
That is.
That's like I got goosebumps.
Yeah.
It was one of those momentswhere God, I believe, and I do believe
in a higher power, and I dobelieve in the pronoun of him for
this purpose.
It's how I identify.
It's how it works for me.
(18:27):
And I respect anyone's belief system.
Truly, truly, truly.
It doesn't matter.
And for me, when I heard thatvoice, I knew what it was.
There was no judging becausedoubt is always a comment.
Oh, you didn't hear God talkto you?
You didn't hear that.
You know, there was none of that.
It was an affirmation of, weneed to stop now.
(18:47):
And it, I, I, that was when Ibegan what they call, in the clinical
realm, pre contemplation.
And I would start having theseideas in my brain about having only
two drinks, not calling mydealer, you know, trying to quietly.
I never told this to anyone.
Trying to control my drinking,trying to control my behaviors, not
(19:09):
end up out at a club, not endup alone with, you know, mounds of
amphetamines, and I couldn'tdo it.
And that was internal shamethat was being created.
And that rinse and repeat, asyou were discussing earlier, how
did I end up in that pattern?
Well, the bonds of addiction were.
Were too loose to be feltuntil they were too tight to be broken,
(19:29):
and not until I was pregnant.
And my oldest son, who's 21,Samuel, who's healthy and very well
now, God graced me withbecoming pregnant at 26.
And that was the only way.
Like we always say, it's likea Boeing 747 in the air.
You can't just stop and jackknife.
You have to slow it down andslowly turn it around.
(19:51):
And that's how I was able tobe brought literally to my knees
and slow things down and beganmy recovery journey, which, as you
started the show, ended mehaving to leave the father of my
three children and jump off acliff with them, not knowing what
my future would be.
I had no financial real means.
I didn't have another partnerwaiting for me to make the leap easier.
(20:13):
It was truly blind faith.
And I think that's what I liketo call baptism by fire.
Was a way in which I becamecrystallized into my true self.
I could really see what I wasmade from and made of.
And I really love the name ofyour show.
Because I grew up driving withmy parents from Michigan to Montana
(20:36):
every summer and camping at koas.
And so what I did in New York,because we have a family cattle ranch.
I'm a cowgirl at heart.
We're seventh generationcattle ranch owners.
Oh, cool.
Paradise Valley, Montana.
And I started driving with mykids from New York to Montana every
summer.
And now I've moved to Florida.
And I drive from Florida toMon and back every summer, and there's
(20:57):
nothing I look forward to.
My open road, time alone withmy animals in the car.
Now my kids are older, theydon't want to do it with me, but
I will never give up that.
That road warrior mentalityand literally be on the open road.
It is so calming.
It's like divided attention atits finest.
Well, when you think of life,it's a road.
(21:17):
And everyone needs to be awarrior going down that road and
find that path to success.
Life has a tendency, andpeople in our lives can send us down
a really crazy detour.
Sometimes it's a dead end.
Sometimes it's one of thosecrazy roundabouts.
You keep going around andaround and around and, you know.
(21:38):
Yeah.
Story of my life for a long time.
A few decades, actually.
Yeah, me too.
It's so easy to getsidetracked, and we don't have the
proper gps.
Well said.
And there was no GPS back inthose days.
You know, what you had to dofor me, because I could navigate
a map, but I actually like tostop and talk to people and ask directions
and that connection.
(21:59):
And then I build memoriesalong the road.
I like to stop at this one gas station.
I like to stop at this onetown to spend the night.
I like to keep those connections.
And then I see myself yearafter year after year, passing through
that portal of time yet again.
Right.
Whether I'm in Rapid City orSioux City or Oklahoma City.
So when you made this pivotand you committed to a life of sobriety,
(22:22):
did you go back to school?
I mean, obviously you wentinto something completely different
than modeling in New York City.
I certainly did.
I.
Because I come from a familyof academics.
My parents first were firstcollege graduates.
My mom has a master's.
My father has a PhD.
My sisters have advanceddegrees, many of them.
And I never graduated college.
And so I felt less than significantly.
(22:44):
My learning challenges were,let's just say I understand what
I read, but at a pace that islike molasses, because everything
means something to me.
Everything matters.
The way a word is written or phrased.
It's like, wait, I need toMarinate on that.
I like quoting one of myfavorite authors, Thomas Merton.
(23:05):
Perhaps I'm stronger than Ithink I am and that has so much meaning
in it.
I want to digest that quoteforever because everything is so
important, I feel.
And so I, I did apply back toNYU and I got into adults returning
back to school because I didhave two years of college underneath
my belt and I had three small children.
(23:26):
I was newly sober and with afive year old, a three year old and
a one year old.
That wasn't probably thesmartest thing for me to do in a,
in a relationship that wasalso unsupportive.
So I didn't have the ease andsafety of home to rest and study
and focus on me.
I had to provide for mychildren that emotional safety and
(23:48):
it took everything I could tostay sober and to do that for them.
So I was not able to go backto school and I chose to give that
up.
And I'm really glad that I did.
Now I wouldn't be doing whatI'm doing if I was a licensed clinical
social worker.
That is not the lane that theroad I was meant to be on.
I definitely am a trailblazer.
(24:09):
They've called me a pioneer in Dubai.
I've been bringing thisindustry there for six years now,
working with some of theirfirst treatment centers ever in the
Middle East.
What we're doing is pushingthe boundaries of what we think we
know.
Inpatient is great, it servesa purpose.
Okay, outpatient is okay.
But who's going to help holdthose people accountable in that
(24:29):
continuum?
And that's where this recoverycoaching and mentorship and supportive
approach outside of treatmenthas really gained some momentum because
it's highly effective whendone, ethical and right.
I love this concept.
Now this is what Silver Bellcoaching is all about.
How is this different than thestandard, say, conventional treatment?
(24:50):
People go into rehab and thenof course they have to find a 12
step program and a sponsorperhaps to keep them on their road
to sobriety.
What are you doing that's different?
If, if people are taking tothat program and that process, great,
I don't want to touch it.
They're not my clientele.
But unfortunately, as we allknow, the number one kill in our
(25:11):
nation still for people 50 andunder is accidental overdose.
And suicide is significantlyon the rise every year.
And so something has to shiftand change.
And that's where I think, toboil it down, what people would call
companies like mine are casemanagement companies that help hold
all the multidisciplinaryteams together.
(25:32):
And that can be tricky becauseI don't have, let's say I have clinicians
that work within my company,but I'm working with other clinicians
that a client will bring withthem who has tried rehab three or
four times and it's not successful.
I had a client once who hadrehab 39 times.
So something's clearly notworking right.
That insidiousness of doingsomething over and over again.
(25:52):
So the system for them is not effective.
I'm not saying it isn't foreveryone, for everyone.
This is not a generalized statement.
But with the rise of ouraddiction in America in particular,
and we're seeing this overseastoo, you have to look at something
different to get a different result.
And really that peer to peer mentor.
What we're doing, Kathy and Iare resonating, right?
(26:13):
We're resonating andidentifying with each other.
I feel safe.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I feel safe with her already.
I would listen to her morethan I would listen to my therapist.
But the win is if my therapistis saying the same content may be
delivered from a clinical lensand Kathy's saying the same thing,
then I've got nowhere to gobut to listen to both of these different
(26:34):
arenas.
The non clinical approach andthe clinical working together, not
afraid of each other, notupset with each other, not, you're
not as good as me becausethere's a lot of that, you know,
you're not academically trained.
We have to really remove thoseblinders and say, what can I learn
from this coach?
And the coach needs to say,what can I learn from this seasonedly
trained clinician?
And how can we complement eachother because we're completely separate
(26:56):
and yet so beneficial to each other.
And more and more cliniciansare getting on board with it.
So when we find them, we putthese multidisciplinary teams together.
And the most important pieceof all of this is a quarterback that's
the case manager who'sanchoring and holding all information
around this identified patientand the family together.
(27:17):
So that isn't fractured.
It isn't who's on first andwhat did she say?
And we're a week late and thensomeone's back in rehab or someone's
back in a relapse, orsomeone's not alive.
And how do we help holdeverybody accountable together as
a cohesive team without judgment.
Again, there we are with that.
Let's judge everybody.
I want to commend you.
This is marvelous that you'vebeen able to accomplish this, because
(27:40):
the mental health community,just like the medical community,
there's a lot of ego there andthere's a resistance to change.
So the fact that you'vebrought a lot of people on board
that can do this, that speaks volumes.
It really does.
Well, it's not caring whatother people think, to be quite honest.
I know in my heart that'sstill small voice.
I'm talking to God, I'mjournaling, I'm getting clarity because
(28:02):
we started 12, almost 13 yearsago, and I didn't have time to listen
to actually what all theconventions were saying or the clinicians
were saying.
I had one forensicpsychologist who trained me, Dr.
Marvin Aronson, who's nolonger with us anymore in New York
City, took me under his wingand he said, you're onto something
here.
And he helped put thisforensic approach where everybody's
(28:23):
talking to everybody, dailynotes are taken, of course, with
the client, full transparencyand unaware.
But we're all working togetherbecause he had had 40 years in the
industry of watching thingsnot be effective for a lot of people.
For those that it is great.
But what about everyone elsein our mental health capacity around
this world?
(28:44):
It's on the rise.
People have to be able to bemore malleable and flexible and work
together.
That's just.
I don't know how to do it anyother way.
I don't think there is anotherway unless everybody's talking to
everybody.
This makes so much sensebecause we've been stuck in basically
a template.
You know, people go into arehab, it's done the same way all
the time, and one size doesnot fit all.
(29:07):
I was just going to say thatbecause every recovery is different
for every single person.
I come from a family thatevery single one of us was either
using or drinking or were alladdictive issues.
And my best friend who passedaway from a relapse from alcohol
(29:29):
after being eight and a halfyears clean and sober, when she passed
away in my house, it was sodevastating to me because I had tried
to do everything possible withher to get her to see her own light
and to acknowledge her ownself worth.
And it didn't matter.
We tried all different kindsof therapies and different kinds
(29:50):
of, I guess angles would be agood word of trying to look at the
problem.
But it really boiled down tohow she really felt about herself.
And so her level of trauma andrecovery, it was deeper than other
people.
Right.
And not to mention that shewas trafficked sexually since she
(30:13):
was 12.
So I mean, every single personhas their level where they need to
go seek what will help thembecause what helped me did not help
her.
And we were in the samerecovery home, right, where we did
the same treatment for a wholeyear together as roommates, side
by side, doing the same homework.
(30:35):
But, you know, I, I don't knowif you've done this, but I've done.
I did a LED treatment, emdr, Ishould say, not LV emdr.
And it had it that we.
I was one of the trial clientsand this is back in 2012, and it
wasn't really somethingpopular, but for like with alcoholics.
(30:55):
But apparently it had a 75success rate.
And I said, you know what?
I got nothing left to lose.
This is the.
I keep relapsing.
I've been trying to quit since2006, and by now we're 2012 and,
you know, I've just, I've lostmy nursing career.
I've lost everything I own.
I mean, my daughter wasn'ttalking to me and she, you know,
just all these things I said,you want me to do backflip?
Anything you need me to do,I'm gonna try it.
(31:18):
Right?
Because I couldn't figure outwhy I kept relapsing.
And this EMDR treatment, well,it really worked for me.
It just unlocked a bunch ofthought patterns that I didn't realize
were holding me back.
But in the same breath that.
That same EMDR treatment thatwas available to my friend, she refused
to take it.
And I'm not saying that wasthe catalyst of whether.
(31:38):
Why she relapsed eight and ahalf years later, because she had,
she had a great eight and ahalf years clean.
But I'm just saying that forme, that was my trick, that I, I
fully know the moment where Iactually felt in my brain something
flipped like a switch.
And I, I understood where myunworthiness, that, that feeling
of unworthiness came.
(32:00):
And then once I understood howworthy I am, in that same breath,
that same moment, it changedeverything for me because it just
did.
So.
But, and, but how do you givethat to somebody else?
Sure you can't.
Well, yes and no.
I'm going to share with you.
People say a lot in the roomsor out in the recovery world.
(32:22):
You can't help someone who'snot willing.
And I say bs.
We create willingness all the time.
And that's kind of what we doat Silverbell.
We get called for pre intervention.
Intervention can be lifesaving if it's really a 911 situation.
But we do slow interveningwhere we get the family members involved,
those quote unquotestakeholders that are calling Us
(32:44):
to begin with.
I've never had an interventionperson call me that wants an intervention
on themselves, you know, so wework with the family members and,
and once we get them to aplace where they're ready to help
hold the boundaries, we'regoing to help create that opening
of grace we call it, so thatloved one can take that, that lifeline
into treatment or to our modelor what have you.
(33:05):
Now, to answer your questionthough, yes, I did emdr and it was
highly effective for me at theright time with the right therapist.
And it sounds like both, whichis a win.
That's like a bullseye.
We don't always get those opportunities.
People aren't sound enough orready enough to do the treatment
with a person that makes themfeel safe because safety for your
(33:25):
nervous system.
All our coaches are trained inthe Polyvagal theory by Deb Danna.
She was a co founder of thePolyvagal Institute, which is the
science behind our nervous system.
That was common sense for usas women.
It's a gut check.
It's a funny feeling.
It's a spidey sense.
I don't like the way that feels.
Right.
We all have this language for centuries.
But not until 2009 did StephenForges and Deb Nana put the science
(33:49):
behind it.
And then Deb was the one whohelped execute it into the therapeutic
environment to help regulatenervous system.
With the nervous system, kindof like what I think we're all doing
right now, I feel really safeand comfortable.
My nervous system is very regulated.
Talking to you.
Right.
I've also done the work.
I'm not just a year sober,even 30 days sober.
I wouldn't have been ready tohave that conversation to talk about
(34:09):
my nervous system, talk aboutmy past memories, which is what EMDR
helps you recreate and movethrough in a safe way.
Until I had the rightenvironment to do that in.
And that's kind of where ourcompany comes in.
We help get them into a placeof stabilization and then we help
move them into doing thatunderlying work that you're discussing.
(34:30):
Sexual grief is a real arenathese days.
There's a really greattherapist in Florida, Edie.
I forget her last name.
But she specifically helpswomen move through sexual grief.
Now, what is that?
It's.
It's like having a lot ofsexual trauma as a child, being sex
trafficked, things of those nature.
And so we're getting more andmore of that as we unfortunately
(34:52):
all know what's happening inthe world.
Yeah, yeah.
So these, these underlyingissues that you just talked about.
With your friend were so bigand so overwhelming.
She had eight years, but inthat eight years, was she able to
find a therapeutic, traumatrained and responsive therapist
who's trained in EMDR or anyother modalities, brain spotting
(35:14):
and what have you to help moveher into a pace of recovery from
those traumas that issustainable so that she doesn't regress.
And that's where having betterclinicians out there that are more
sensitive to what's going on.
Like you guys even said theold model isn't.
CBT is great.
Cognitive behavioral therapyis good, but it's not, it's not the
(35:36):
only modality out there tohelp treat these people who have
these underlying traumatic events.
Right?
Stay tuned for more of WomenRoad warriors coming up.
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
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Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
back to Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
(37:02):
The number one killer ofpeople under 50 is accidental overdose.
That's a sobering statisticthat demands change to provide a
system to fight addiction thatworks for more people.
When Natasha Silver Bell gotsober, it was a process.
It was a strong period of selfreflection and learning to understand
herself and how to break thebonds of addiction.
(37:23):
It wasn't until her pregnancyat 26 that she took a different track.
She began her recovery journeythat wasn't without significant challenges,
which included a contentiousdivorce and venturing out on her
own.
She became crystallized intoher true self.
She was able to turn her lifearound and those of others.
Today, Natasha is a highlyregarded expert in substance use
(37:45):
disorder and recovery withrecovery coaching and mentorship
she's on the board of theNational Council of Alcoholism and
Drug Dependence and serves asan ambassador for Partnership to
End Addiction.
She owns Silverbell Global,which helps people internationally.
Her organization counselspeople with substance use disorders,
eating disorders, personalitydisorders and other mental health
(38:06):
issues.
Natasha is also the co founderof Youth Prevention Mentors that
empowers young adults throughmentorship and risk mitigation, as
well as the Townhouse, aresidence in New York City that offers
bespoke treatment programstailored to the individual.
Natasha sharing some terrificinsight with us, giving our listeners
clarity with a revolutionaryapproach to addiction.
(38:27):
Natasha, like you said beforeour last break, finding the right
clinician to help people withunderlying traumatic events is so
important to break theaddiction cycle.
It really makes sense for anykind of addiction.
And I see that yourorganization helps with all kinds
of use disorders, eating,drinking, drugs, whatever it is.
(38:49):
Finding the underlying reason,there's a reason why we're stuffing
it.
We are going to an externalsource to feel better about ourselves
and maybe to numb our pain.
And if you don't address that,you're just basically putting what,
a lousy coat of paint oversomething and hoping it's going to
stick, right?
Well, yes.
(39:09):
And to your point before abouthow do we know if we're just self
doing this habit out of habit?
Maybe we know.
But guess what?
To do the underlying work.
You know, I have sexual trauma.
I didn't want to talk about itwhen I was first sober, you know,
and in rehab in 30, 60, 90 days.
They expect you to be doingyour underlying work that quickly?
(39:30):
Well, if someone is soundenough to do their work like that
within the first, you know,round of treatment, God bless them.
But I needed years ofstabilization is with a sober mind
in order to even approach.
And that's what Deb talksabout, readiness, you know, and creating
the willingness.
The only way you're going todo that is through creating a safe
relationship with someone.
(39:50):
And that's where someone likea Kathy could be a great asset.
But she just wasn't ready.
Sure.
Yeah.
The 30 day model of recoveryand rehab and so forth, that's probably
dictated a lot by theinsurance companies that want you
in and out.
Let's have a miracle, right?
And just like physicaltherapy, that has been a struggle.
When people need that,insurance companies will say, well,
(40:11):
you can have all your physicaltherapy in the next, you know, six
weeks, which should be spacedover the course of a year.
So you're actually doing moredamage in many cases by doing this
massive cram session.
I mean, people don't processthat way.
We don't do that in oureducational system.
With little ones, it takesyears for them to learn certain things.
(40:32):
You know, it does.
Like I, like I took me a totalof two years in that women's center.
I went nine months the firsttime, I went four months the second
time.
And then I re.
I relapsed again and then Iwent back for the third time.
That way I spent the whole year.
But what I, what I noticedbecause I really thought the first
(40:52):
time when I went the ninemonths that I had given it my all.
I mean, and I did, I workedreally, really hard, but I didn't
realize that there's so manylayers to trauma.
I mean, I did a 12 week sexualassault recovery group the first
time and I thought I got itall right.
And so the second time aroundor the third time when I went back,
they asked me to do again.
(41:13):
I said, well, I already did it.
And she said, no, I thinkthere's more for you to uncover.
And she was right.
I did this really thick book.
The book's about like about aninch thick.
And I redid it with differentcounselors and I uncovered memories
that I had completely blockedout the first time.
And you can only, I think themind almost purposely blocks it out
(41:35):
until you're ready to, to lookat it.
And so I had to chip away,chip away, chip away.
And it certainly didn't happenovernight because, I mean, my God,
there's so much that happenedto me that it's, it's very traumatic
and it's just, it takes timeto heal.
And that's like anything evenlike it, like my, my broken finger
(41:55):
that I broke three weeks ago.
It takes time to heal.
Yeah.
So, Natasha, can people reachout to you?
Obviously, I know we're goingto have listeners that want to, they're
hearing what you're saying.
It makes so much sense andthey're looking for that extra avenue.
They're just, you know, whenyou're going through this kind of
(42:16):
recovery, you're trying tomake a change.
You're just grasping forsomething you can hang onto that
makes sense, that keeps you onthat track.
Well said.
It is.
There's layers and layers torecovery and layers and layers to
solution.
And so yes, of course they canemail us on our inquiry at SilverbellGlobal.
We actually did a rebrandinglast year because our company's global
(42:38):
now.
And so coaching turned intoglobal, but I started a foundation
because that company is for profit.
But I just thought, I want tobe as more and more help to more
and more people as much as possible.
So we created a board.
Some alumni of our program did that.
And so it's called In Service foundation.
(42:58):
And they can certainly applythere as well if resources are limited.
Limited.
And there are some greatonline resources.
Just.
I know it can be so hard to navigate.
What's a safe.
What's a safe, you know, place to.
To go and get those resources?
So they're like theorganizations I'm a part of, the
(43:21):
National Council on Alcoholand Substance Abuse, the one that
you just spoke at.
Kathy.
I think down in Dallas,there's some really great resources.
Partnership to End Addictionis a really great resource.
They have a lot of onlineprograms and free programs.
But yeah, keep seeking, keepasking, and the answers will find
you.
So there are resources topeople who may not have insurance.
(43:44):
That's very good because Ithink that's always a barrier too.
It is, it is.
And yes, I'm with you on theinsurance model.
It is really frustrating andvery challenging.
That's why these foundationsare so beneficial.
And I love what you're doing.
You're a champion for people.
This is so needed.
And when people are caught inthe throes of addiction and certain
(44:06):
addictions are worse thanothers, opiate is just a terrible
one.
They need something that cankeep them on track because their
body's saying somethingcompletely different.
And their mind and the habits,the things that they've gotten locked
into.
You know what I would like toshare really quickly, I know we're
closing in on time is mydaughter is 17 and I was going through
(44:28):
a depressing moment recentlyand she even said to me, mom, you
seem a little down.
And for my 17 year old to evenacknowledge I have feelings as new.
But she, she has her momentsof being a human being.
God bless the teenage girl,which I was one.
And she sent me this app.
And this is the sweetest appthat I connect with her on.
And, and it's a mental healthapp for kids and it's called Finch.
(44:52):
And it's this little bird that you.
That checks in on you.
And you have daily goals ofbrushing your teeth and getting out
of bed or putting a warm towelaround your shoulders or reaching
out to a friend.
And then at the end of the dayit checks in with you.
And there are other chirp friends.
These, these Finch friends youcan become friends with.
And it is so well thought out.
(45:12):
And you know, there are a lotof great tools out there that we
have access to that are free.
So if anybody's interested anddoesn't have the resources.
Try the Finch app, and there'ssome beautiful connections on there.
So, Natasha, do you have somenuggets maybe, that listeners can
take away?
We like to have littletakeaways if they're struggling with
any kind of addiction.
(45:34):
What are some thoughts thatyou have?
Oh, I have a thank you forasking this question.
So when I was ready to reallystart putting things down, but I
didn't know it yet, I hadpushed all my real friends away because
they would actually care aboutme and challenge me and ask me how
I really was and not hang upuntil I told them.
And I couldn't just get awaywith saying, I'm fine.
(45:55):
I'm good.
How are you?
Blah, blah, blah.
They would say, how are you really?
How are you?
And it was so annoying.
And one day, one of my goodfriends that I had pushed away somehow
got through to me again.
This is 16 years ago when Ireally decided to get sober, and
she somehow got me on thephone, and I was telling her how
great my life was.
(46:17):
You know, I had this house inthe Hamptons.
I've got my kids.
I've got my cars.
Everything's just fine.
Like, leave me alone.
And she said, okay, Natasha,just don't lie to yourself.
And, ooh.
I wanted to just punch herthrough the phone, but of course,
I just said, thank you.
And that really landed on mynervous system.
(46:37):
I could hear the message.
And my point with the nuggethere is make that phone call to that
friend you know is going toreally care about how you're doing.
Well said.
We may not always like the message.
But it's gonna help.
Sure, you want to shoot themessenger sometimes.
You should.
Sure do.
(46:57):
But, you know, when peoplehave time to step back, they realize
this person cares about me.
And that's a lot of it, too.
We need to know that peoplegive a damn, you know, that's it.
And she did.
And she didn't care if I hated her.
I knew she had her motives inthe right place.
And darn it, like that, I liked.
I like to hide from all thosetrue, caring people.
When you're in your addiction,yeah, it's.
(47:20):
Easy to want to just, youknow, cloister yourself and push
people away.
And that's part of thebehavior, too.
Exactly.
So that's my nugget, is tomake that phone call to that one
person that you know willreally care about how you're doing.
I love it.
Natasha, where do people reachyour organization again?
Your inquiry I n q U E R Yinquiry at silverbell Global.
(47:44):
But there is a website inquirythat people can message us there.
Okay.
And people can go tosilverbellglobal.com for any kind
of research.
They can go up to your websiteand see what you folks do and all
of that.
Right.
There's a media page withother podcasts or articles I've written.
And our most recent article,I'm a guest writer in a luxury magazine
(48:04):
quarterly.
We're talking about veins ofgold and why gold is such a precious
metal.
And it's because it'smalleable and flexible.
And that's why, when we thinkabout how precious we are, is that
we want to be as malleable andflexible as gold.
Oh, I love that.
Yeah.
Because when you think aboutit, if we aren't malleable and flexible,
we'll break.
That's right.
(48:25):
You don't want to be rigid.
No.
And what's interesting aboutwhat makes gold so precious, besides
that, is that it actually hasto be bonded with something like
silver or platinum in order togive it the strength.
And that means having silverlike a silver lining, or having a
combination of connectionmakes you stronger.
(48:45):
Human connection.
Yes.
Natasha, this has been apowerful interview.
I know we've just kind ofscratched the.
The surface of everything, butwhat wonderful perspectives you have.
Thank you.
Thank you for shedding thelight on this and doing what you
do.
Your voice is so soothing andcomforting and Kathy, wow.
Just wow.
Thank you.
(49:06):
I'm going to say that about you.
Yes, absolutely, Natasha.
Thank you so much.
Ladies, thank you for doing this.
And definitely keep.
Keep going.
Don't stop.
Please don't stop.
Well, thank you.
It's been an honor having youon the show, Natasha.
And definitely keep going inthe direction you're going.
You're just.
You're moving mountains.
Thank you.
I really appreciate the time.
(49:28):
We hope you've enjoyed thislatest episode.
And if you want to hear moreepisodes of Women Road warriors or
learn more about our show, besure to check out womenroadwarriors.com
and please follow us on social media.
And don't forget to subscribeto our podcast on our website.
We also have a selection ofpodcasts just for women.
(49:49):
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So if you're in the mood forwomen's podcasts, just click the
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(50:10):
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Check us out and please followus wherever you listen to podcasts.
Thanks for listening.
You've been listening to WomenRoad warriors with Shell Johnson
and Kathy Takaro.
If you want to be a guest onthe show or have a topic or feedback,
email us@sjohnsonomenroadwarriors.com.
This is Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
From the corporate office tothe cab of a truck, they're here
to inspire and empower womenin all professions.
So gear down, sit back, and enjoy.
(00:23):
Welcome.
We're an award winning showtoday dedicated to empowering women
in every profession throughinspiring stories and expert insights.
No topics off limits on our show.
We power women on the road tosuccess with expert and celebrity
interviews and information you need.
I'm Shelly.
And I'm Kathy.
(00:44):
Many women struggle withsubstance abuse.
It's difficult to break freeof addiction.
Natasha Silver Bell has facedmany of those obstacles.
The former Miss Michigan, usa,New York City model and mother of
three struggled with drug andalcohol addiction.
She also had a troubledmarriage, a career path with many
ups and downs, and eventuallya contentious divorce.
(01:07):
Natasha says as she leanedinto her sobriety, her marriage became
even more fragmented and adivorce was a risk as she had no
college degree and also had dyslexia.
Despite all those obstacles,she prevailed and ventured out on
her own.
She learned that courage isnot the absence of fear.
It's taking action despite the fear.
(01:28):
Today, Natasha is a highlyregarded expert in substance use
disorder and recovery.
She's on the board of theNational Council on Alcoholism and
Drug Dependence and serves asan ambassador for Partnership to
end Addiction.
She owns Silverbell Global,which helps people internationally.
Her organization counselspeople with substance use disorders,
eating disorders, personalitydisorders, and other mental health.
(01:52):
Natasha is also a co founderof Youth Prevention Mentors that
empowers young adults throughmentorship and risk mitigation, as
well as the Townhouse, aresidence in New York City that offers
bespoke treatment programstailored to the individual.
Natasha has moved mountainsfor herself and other people.
We have Natasha with us todayto tap into her insight and we're
(02:12):
extremely honored.
Welcome, Natasha.
Thank you for being on theshow with us.
Oh, wow.
Thank you.
I was just listening to therecap of my life story, spoken so
succinctly, and I'm pattingmyself on the back, like, job well
done.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm giving you one virtually too.
Holy man.
(02:33):
Yeah.
You've been a powerhouse,Natasha, and you overcame a lot of
obstacles.
Maybe we could discuss alittle bit about that because women
have different issues,certainly, but I'm sure, you know,
when they're in the middle ofit, it seems like such a mountain.
That is incredibly true.
And just again.
Right.
(02:53):
Take you, taking me back.
Kind of like reliving where Ibegan and where I am now.
And I just didn't think Iwould have the courage to ever do
what it is.
I knew in my then sober mind,as I was coming into my own sobriety
and waking up and seeing thesethree beautiful little children that
I had given birth to, I wasgoing, how would I ever change?
(03:15):
Why would I.
Why would I leave the fatherof their children?
Why?
Why would I do that?
Come on, Natasha, can't youjust get it together?
Come on, Tash.
I would really pep myself upto stay together as a family.
Obviously, I think familiesare really important, but for me,
I was like, why would I takemy children away from their father?
Why would I want to do that?
And that was the internalstruggle, I think, more than anything
(03:37):
else.
Forget the money and the fearof being alone.
All big stressors in the lifeof somebody contemplating a move.
But that intern internalcomfortability of making the move
once decided was really thestruggle within me for many, many
years.
We have to learn to becomfortable with being uncomfortable,
don't we?
Oh, it's so annoyingly true.
(03:59):
Humans like security.
They really do.
Yeah.
Especially as a mom.
You're an or somebody, acaregiver, a loved one, providing
for others.
You want safety, consistency.
And I knew how important thatwould be for my children, and I didn't
have any of that if I was to le.
Leave.
And again, what justificationwould I have for leaving?
(04:20):
That's.
That was the biggest strugglefor me.
Do you think people, whenthey're dealing with substance abuse,
too, one of the reasons thatthey don't stop abusing substances
is because that's also kind ofa comfort zone.
Of course.
Well, habits, you know, I lovequoting Charlie Munger.
He's Warren Buffett's partner,and he says the bonds of addiction
are too loose to be felt untilthey're too tight to be broken.
(04:44):
And for me, I didn't even knowI had a problem.
And when I did wake up to thefact that I was dependent and needing
a substance in my life to feelokay in the day, then I had to wrestle
with that and go, okay, howwould I ever function without this?
What does this even look liketo put a substance down?
And then I would just getscared and run and hide more into
(05:05):
the substance.
To your point.
Sounds so familiar from somany women out there.
People out there, not just women.
It's interesting that you saidthat, because yesterday I had.
For the last two days, I had aconversation with the lady who came
behind my table holding aglass of wine, and she bought a book,
and she was.
We were talking about sobriety.
(05:26):
She says, I can't believe youwent 12 years without a drink.
She says, I just don't believe it.
And I'm like, no, it's been 12 years.
And here she's drinking herwine and sloshing it a little bit.
And I said, when was the lasttime that you didn't.
You did not have a drink?
And she looks at me and shescoffs and laughs and says, I think
it's been about 15 years.
(05:46):
She says, I'm fully aware thatI'm a functioning alcoholic, but
I just choose to drink, andI'm okay with that.
So yesterday we continued ourconversation after the conference
was over in the pool, andagain, she's drinking her wine, and
she says, I cannot imagine aday without alcohol.
And she says, in my life, it's impossible.
(06:09):
So, yeah, no matter what I wastelling her, it was very hard for
her to even understand that concept.
And I.
And I get.
And I get it because, I mean,12 years sober, back when I was drinking,
I couldn't spend 10 minuteswithout going to get a drink.
So I remember.
And so funny you should saythat, too, because I remember when
(06:29):
I was first ContemplatingGetting sober 20 years ago is when
my recovery journey began.
And I would go to 12 stepgroups in New York City, and I would
just kind of put my toe in the water.
I wasn't 100% sober then.
Maybe for that meeting I was,but then I'd go home and drink or
whatever, and I just couldn'tbelieve everybody in those rooms
was sober.
I was like, there's no way.
They're all going homedrinking and using.
(06:49):
And I really, really, reallybelieved that because there was just.
Even though I was raised,ironically, without alcohol or drugs
in our home, it was againstthe religion we were raised in to.
To not drink or even havecaffeine, but yet I ended up in this.
This path.
You know, destiny finds you.
And I had my prodigal son journey.
But the idea that people wouldactually not drink by choice.
(07:10):
So I.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just, you can have fun.
I'm like, I have had way morefun sober than I ever had drunk.
Like, you can't even compare.
I said, now, if.
If it were to come down to it,you were to try to pay me to drink,
I wouldn't even take it.
Forget it.
I don't want it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, same.
(07:31):
So that kind of keeps people stuck.
They rationalize why they'redrinking, and they just look at it
as a hopeless battle.
It's like, whatever, I'm justgonna drink that's part of the addictive
thinking, isn't.
Is from my understanding, youknow it.
Yeah.
How.
How do you.
Until the secret ingredient,people are like, how did you figure
(07:52):
it out?
How did you do it?
One to your point, it's likecourage is fear that said its prayers
kind of mentality.
I had to go against everythingI thought I knew, which was really
nothing other than drinkingand using, and find a group of women
who had walked before me.
And when I found a group ofwomen, a group in New York City and
(08:13):
I was able to make it to them,every Wednesday night, there was
a women's meeting after workat the McGraw Hill building on 6th
Avenue and 49th Street.
And I would make it to thesegroup of women and just be in awe.
They were judges and lawyersand business women and movers and
shake.
And I was like, how are thesereally successful women in the same
room as me?
Like, that's not evenconscionable to me.
(08:35):
But just watching how theymoved before me without judgment,
without proselytizing, withoutlecturing, without telling me, well,
if I just tried harder, noneof that.
And that was the only piecethat really, really, my therapist
was great.
We love, we love havingprofessional help, but it was, it
was, it was those group of women.
Like this, this, this momentwith you is so empowering to hear
(09:00):
what you're telling me, Kathy.
To listen to you, Shelley.
So it's important to havementors, would you say?
I mean, these ladies wereobviously your mentors.
You stood in awe of what theyaccomplished, and you were also awestruck
by the fact that they didn'tjudge you.
Mm.
Having a group of women, Ithink we weren't meant to live this
world alone.
And I know that oftentimespeople say it, but I'll say it again.
(09:23):
You know, connection is theopposite of addiction.
And it is so important to beconnected with like minded people.
And at that, even though thesewomen, to me in a professional realm,
were giants above me, theywere humbling themselves into a commonality
of we were all aligned againstsomething else out there.
(09:43):
And I was able to be a part of that.
And there was no judgment.
And I think that is so important.
I try to approach the peoplewe work with today without any judgment.
And if my story can behelpful, I share it.
And if I don't think it willbe, I don't.
You know, it's interesting.
There's still judgment outthere, even by medical staff.
If somebody has whatever theiraddiction is, they come in because
(10:06):
they need help.
They need to have Something,some sort of medical intervention
because of an opiate addictionor even alcohol, they're not treated
well.
They're treated in a veryjudgmental fashion, which I find
today after all these years ofreeducation, why is there that judgment
out there?
I mean, that keeps peoplestruggling with substance abuse too?
(10:28):
Well, it's shows like yoursthat help illuminate and cross the
quote, unquote layers orboundaries, if there are any, between
people who are in the recoverypath and those who are curious or
those who want to learn morebecause of a family member.
And you're right, the medicalcommunity has a lot of judgment,
especially in institutionslike hospitals or what have you.
And why that is so muchuneducation around it, I don't know.
(10:51):
I think the medical schoolshave a lot to be learning still.
And so when you think abouthow we can really be helpful to other
people, it is the simple actof not judging what a person's choices,
past choices, have led them towhere they are kind of like a cancer
patient.
While we all knowantioxidants, eating well and all
these things can be helpful,it's not a hundred percent preventative,
(11:15):
but it's like, wait a second,to your point, the cancer patient
gets all this royal treatment.
Oh, you poor thing.
Whereas an addict is like, oh,yeah, yeah, yeah, they, they have
to go to rehab.
They chose this.
And I think that's a wholenother show.
Probably we could talk aboutwhether this is a choice or not.
Yeah, our society stilllabels, you know, they're trying
(11:36):
to get away from that, butthat's so marginalizing and it just
keeps people stuck and thereneeds to be the compassion and empathy
all the way across the board.
I have never met somebodywhere I've ever been, quote, unquote,
successful or had a goodconversation or wanted them to learn
more about how to helpthemselves by finding their faults.
(11:59):
That just, it doesn't workwith my kids, work in relationships.
You know, shaking my finger atsomebody has never, you know, they
say you've got a fingerpointing, three fingers pointing
back at yourself.
And you know, it's just, Ihave never.
I was, I was talking to an MITprofessor one time about the state
of affairs in the world, whichI will not get into now.
(12:21):
But the point being that inorder to understand the adversity,
the adversity, the other side,you have to join them first in order
to enlighten them to whatmaybe you have to say.
So I've again, we've nevergotten anywhere by telling somebody,
even a cancer patient, oh,well, X, Y and Z.
That doesn't actually helpthem heal in the moment.
(12:43):
It's just information.
Yeah.
Stay tuned for more of WomenRoad warriors coming up.
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
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(13:04):
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(13:27):
Industry Movement TruckingMoves America Forward is telling
the story of the industry.
Our safety champions, thewomen of trucking, independent contractors,
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Help us promote the best ofour industry.
Share your story and what youlove about trucking.
Share images of a momentyou're proud of and join us on social
(13:48):
media.
Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
welcome back to Women Roadwarriors with Shelly Johnson and
Kathy Tucaro.
If you're enjoying thisinformative episode of Women Road
(14:08):
Warriors, I wanted to mentionKathy and I explore all kinds of
topics that will power you onthe road to success.
We feature a lot of expertinterviews, plus we feature celebrities
and women who've been trailblazers.
Please check out ourpodcast@womenroadwarriors.com and
click on our Episodes page.
We're also available whereveryou listen to podcasts on all the
(14:29):
major podcast channels likeSpotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon,
Music, Audible, you name it.
Check us out and bookmark our podcast.
Also, don't forget to followus on social media.
We're on Twitter, Facebook,Instagram, Pinterest, LinkedIn, YouTube,
and other sites and tellothers about us.
We want to help as many womenas possible.
(14:50):
Many women face the toughbattle of substance abuse, and breaking
free from addiction can feelnearly impossible.
Natasha Silver Bell knows thisstruggle all too well.
Once Ms.
Michigan, USA, a New York Citymodel and a mother of three, she
found herself caught in thegrip of drug and alcohol addiction.
On top of that, she had adifficult marriage, a rollercoaster
(15:11):
career, and ultimately acontentious divorce.
But despite all these hurdles,she found a way to overcome them
and carve out a new path for herself.
Natasha learned that courageisn't about being fearless, it's
about taking action.
Even when you're scared.
Today, she's a respectedexpert in substance use disorder
and recovery.
She's the founder of SilverBell Global, an organization that
(15:32):
helps people around the worldbattling substance use, eating disorders,
personality disorders andother mental health challenges.
Natasha's journey is nothingshort of inspiring.
She's overcome incredible oddsand now she's helping our listeners
do the same.
So, Natasha, when you'reworking with people, what was your
(15:53):
aha moment where you're like,I have got to stop this drinking.
And how did you start doingwhat you're doing today?
I mean, it's just the way you pivoted.
It's just amazing.
It really is God's grace.
I will share with you thefirst aha moment I really ever had.
And I really love this story.
I must have been 23 or 24 andI'm a failing model in New York City.
(16:18):
You know, getting calls andthen not being able to show up is
what I mean by that.
And for jobs.
And then somehow because I wasdrinking and using all night long,
probably six days a week, Iwasn't able to function during the
day until I would just get mynext hit at 4 o'clock.
I would wake up by 4pm andsomehow one of my good girlfriends
that I, somehow I'd had hersince childhood ended up in New York
(16:40):
City modeling too.
And she, she came to my houseand she somehow got me to go to a
yoga class.
Now mind you, at that time,this is 98, 99, I wasn't an exercise
freak.
I wasn't going to exercise classes.
That's not my mo, Let alone yoga.
I'm from the Midwest.
We didn't do yoga in theMidwest in the 80s and 90s.
It just wasn't a thing.
(17:03):
And, and so being in New YorkCity, how she ever was able to convince
me to go, let alone in thatmoment, I was sober before I would
start using that evening.
And she at the end of thisyoga class, I remember the instructor
at the end, what they call his Shavasana.
We were lying down on the matand the instructor said, now close
(17:24):
your eyes and look down intoyour heart and listen.
Oh, the tears that startedrolling out of my eyes.
Just thinking of it now bringsme right back to that moment.
It was the first time Iprobably been using for six years
straight.
I had slowed down enough tolisten to myself, to listen to that
(17:46):
inner, still calm voice thatloves me beyond anything I could
ever imagine.
Call it your inner child, callit your source, God, conscience.
And I listened and I justcried and what it said to me was,
please stop doing this to us.
And I'll never forget it.
(18:06):
It said, this isn't who you are.
That's powerful.
That is.
That is.
That's like I got goosebumps.
Yeah.
It was one of those momentswhere God, I believe, and I do believe
in a higher power, and I dobelieve in the pronoun of him for
this purpose.
It's how I identify.
It's how it works for me.
(18:27):
And I respect anyone's belief system.
Truly, truly, truly.
It doesn't matter.
And for me, when I heard thatvoice, I knew what it was.
There was no judging becausedoubt is always a comment.
Oh, you didn't hear God talkto you?
You didn't hear that.
You know, there was none of that.
It was an affirmation of, weneed to stop now.
(18:47):
And it, I, I, that was when Ibegan what they call, in the clinical
realm, pre contemplation.
And I would start having theseideas in my brain about having only
two drinks, not calling mydealer, you know, trying to quietly.
I never told this to anyone.
Trying to control my drinking,trying to control my behaviors, not
(19:09):
end up out at a club, not endup alone with, you know, mounds of
amphetamines, and I couldn'tdo it.
And that was internal shamethat was being created.
And that rinse and repeat, asyou were discussing earlier, how
did I end up in that pattern?
Well, the bonds of addiction were.
Were too loose to be feltuntil they were too tight to be broken,
(19:29):
and not until I was pregnant.
And my oldest son, who's 21,Samuel, who's healthy and very well
now, God graced me withbecoming pregnant at 26.
And that was the only way.
Like we always say, it's likea Boeing 747 in the air.
You can't just stop and jackknife.
You have to slow it down andslowly turn it around.
(19:51):
And that's how I was able tobe brought literally to my knees
and slow things down and beganmy recovery journey, which, as you
started the show, ended mehaving to leave the father of my
three children and jump off acliff with them, not knowing what
my future would be.
I had no financial real means.
I didn't have another partnerwaiting for me to make the leap easier.
(20:13):
It was truly blind faith.
And I think that's what I liketo call baptism by fire.
Was a way in which I becamecrystallized into my true self.
I could really see what I wasmade from and made of.
And I really love the name ofyour show.
Because I grew up driving withmy parents from Michigan to Montana
(20:36):
every summer and camping at koas.
And so what I did in New York,because we have a family cattle ranch.
I'm a cowgirl at heart.
We're seventh generationcattle ranch owners.
Oh, cool.
Paradise Valley, Montana.
And I started driving with mykids from New York to Montana every
summer.
And now I've moved to Florida.
And I drive from Florida toMon and back every summer, and there's
(20:57):
nothing I look forward to.
My open road, time alone withmy animals in the car.
Now my kids are older, theydon't want to do it with me, but
I will never give up that.
That road warrior mentalityand literally be on the open road.
It is so calming.
It's like divided attention atits finest.
Well, when you think of life,it's a road.
(21:17):
And everyone needs to be awarrior going down that road and
find that path to success.
Life has a tendency, andpeople in our lives can send us down
a really crazy detour.
Sometimes it's a dead end.
Sometimes it's one of thosecrazy roundabouts.
You keep going around andaround and around and, you know.
(21:38):
Yeah.
Story of my life for a long time.
A few decades, actually.
Yeah, me too.
It's so easy to getsidetracked, and we don't have the
proper gps.
Well said.
And there was no GPS back inthose days.
You know, what you had to dofor me, because I could navigate
a map, but I actually like tostop and talk to people and ask directions
and that connection.
(21:59):
And then I build memoriesalong the road.
I like to stop at this one gas station.
I like to stop at this onetown to spend the night.
I like to keep those connections.
And then I see myself yearafter year after year, passing through
that portal of time yet again.
Right.
Whether I'm in Rapid City orSioux City or Oklahoma City.
So when you made this pivotand you committed to a life of sobriety,
(22:22):
did you go back to school?
I mean, obviously you wentinto something completely different
than modeling in New York City.
I certainly did.
I.
Because I come from a familyof academics.
My parents first were firstcollege graduates.
My mom has a master's.
My father has a PhD.
My sisters have advanceddegrees, many of them.
And I never graduated college.
And so I felt less than significantly.
(22:44):
My learning challenges were,let's just say I understand what
I read, but at a pace that islike molasses, because everything
means something to me.
Everything matters.
The way a word is written or phrased.
It's like, wait, I need toMarinate on that.
I like quoting one of myfavorite authors, Thomas Merton.
(23:05):
Perhaps I'm stronger than Ithink I am and that has so much meaning
in it.
I want to digest that quoteforever because everything is so
important, I feel.
And so I, I did apply back toNYU and I got into adults returning
back to school because I didhave two years of college underneath
my belt and I had three small children.
(23:26):
I was newly sober and with afive year old, a three year old and
a one year old.
That wasn't probably thesmartest thing for me to do in a,
in a relationship that wasalso unsupportive.
So I didn't have the ease andsafety of home to rest and study
and focus on me.
I had to provide for mychildren that emotional safety and
(23:48):
it took everything I could tostay sober and to do that for them.
So I was not able to go backto school and I chose to give that
up.
And I'm really glad that I did.
Now I wouldn't be doing whatI'm doing if I was a licensed clinical
social worker.
That is not the lane that theroad I was meant to be on.
I definitely am a trailblazer.
(24:09):
They've called me a pioneer in Dubai.
I've been bringing thisindustry there for six years now,
working with some of theirfirst treatment centers ever in the
Middle East.
What we're doing is pushingthe boundaries of what we think we
know.
Inpatient is great, it servesa purpose.
Okay, outpatient is okay.
But who's going to help holdthose people accountable in that
(24:29):
continuum?
And that's where this recoverycoaching and mentorship and supportive
approach outside of treatmenthas really gained some momentum because
it's highly effective whendone, ethical and right.
I love this concept.
Now this is what Silver Bellcoaching is all about.
How is this different than thestandard, say, conventional treatment?
(24:50):
People go into rehab and thenof course they have to find a 12
step program and a sponsorperhaps to keep them on their road
to sobriety.
What are you doing that's different?
If, if people are taking tothat program and that process, great,
I don't want to touch it.
They're not my clientele.
But unfortunately, as we allknow, the number one kill in our
(25:11):
nation still for people 50 andunder is accidental overdose.
And suicide is significantlyon the rise every year.
And so something has to shiftand change.
And that's where I think, toboil it down, what people would call
companies like mine are casemanagement companies that help hold
all the multidisciplinaryteams together.
(25:32):
And that can be tricky becauseI don't have, let's say I have clinicians
that work within my company,but I'm working with other clinicians
that a client will bring withthem who has tried rehab three or
four times and it's not successful.
I had a client once who hadrehab 39 times.
So something's clearly notworking right.
That insidiousness of doingsomething over and over again.
(25:52):
So the system for them is not effective.
I'm not saying it isn't foreveryone, for everyone.
This is not a generalized statement.
But with the rise of ouraddiction in America in particular,
and we're seeing this overseastoo, you have to look at something
different to get a different result.
And really that peer to peer mentor.
What we're doing, Kathy and Iare resonating, right?
(26:13):
We're resonating andidentifying with each other.
I feel safe.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I feel safe with her already.
I would listen to her morethan I would listen to my therapist.
But the win is if my therapistis saying the same content may be
delivered from a clinical lensand Kathy's saying the same thing,
then I've got nowhere to gobut to listen to both of these different
(26:34):
arenas.
The non clinical approach andthe clinical working together, not
afraid of each other, notupset with each other, not, you're
not as good as me becausethere's a lot of that, you know,
you're not academically trained.
We have to really remove thoseblinders and say, what can I learn
from this coach?
And the coach needs to say,what can I learn from this seasonedly
trained clinician?
And how can we complement eachother because we're completely separate
(26:56):
and yet so beneficial to each other.
And more and more cliniciansare getting on board with it.
So when we find them, we putthese multidisciplinary teams together.
And the most important pieceof all of this is a quarterback that's
the case manager who'sanchoring and holding all information
around this identified patientand the family together.
(27:17):
So that isn't fractured.
It isn't who's on first andwhat did she say?
And we're a week late and thensomeone's back in rehab or someone's
back in a relapse, orsomeone's not alive.
And how do we help holdeverybody accountable together as
a cohesive team without judgment.
Again, there we are with that.
Let's judge everybody.
I want to commend you.
This is marvelous that you'vebeen able to accomplish this, because
(27:40):
the mental health community,just like the medical community,
there's a lot of ego there andthere's a resistance to change.
So the fact that you'vebrought a lot of people on board
that can do this, that speaks volumes.
It really does.
Well, it's not caring whatother people think, to be quite honest.
I know in my heart that'sstill small voice.
I'm talking to God, I'mjournaling, I'm getting clarity because
(28:02):
we started 12, almost 13 yearsago, and I didn't have time to listen
to actually what all theconventions were saying or the clinicians
were saying.
I had one forensicpsychologist who trained me, Dr.
Marvin Aronson, who's nolonger with us anymore in New York
City, took me under his wingand he said, you're onto something
here.
And he helped put thisforensic approach where everybody's
(28:23):
talking to everybody, dailynotes are taken, of course, with
the client, full transparencyand unaware.
But we're all working togetherbecause he had had 40 years in the
industry of watching thingsnot be effective for a lot of people.
For those that it is great.
But what about everyone elsein our mental health capacity around
this world?
(28:44):
It's on the rise.
People have to be able to bemore malleable and flexible and work
together.
That's just.
I don't know how to do it anyother way.
I don't think there is anotherway unless everybody's talking to
everybody.
This makes so much sensebecause we've been stuck in basically
a template.
You know, people go into arehab, it's done the same way all
the time, and one size doesnot fit all.
(29:07):
I was just going to say thatbecause every recovery is different
for every single person.
I come from a family thatevery single one of us was either
using or drinking or were alladdictive issues.
And my best friend who passedaway from a relapse from alcohol
(29:29):
after being eight and a halfyears clean and sober, when she passed
away in my house, it was sodevastating to me because I had tried
to do everything possible withher to get her to see her own light
and to acknowledge her ownself worth.
And it didn't matter.
We tried all different kindsof therapies and different kinds
(29:50):
of, I guess angles would be agood word of trying to look at the
problem.
But it really boiled down tohow she really felt about herself.
And so her level of trauma andrecovery, it was deeper than other
people.
Right.
And not to mention that shewas trafficked sexually since she
(30:13):
was 12.
So I mean, every single personhas their level where they need to
go seek what will help thembecause what helped me did not help
her.
And we were in the samerecovery home, right, where we did
the same treatment for a wholeyear together as roommates, side
by side, doing the same homework.
(30:35):
But, you know, I, I don't knowif you've done this, but I've done.
I did a LED treatment, emdr, Ishould say, not LV emdr.
And it had it that we.
I was one of the trial clientsand this is back in 2012, and it
wasn't really somethingpopular, but for like with alcoholics.
(30:55):
But apparently it had a 75success rate.
And I said, you know what?
I got nothing left to lose.
This is the.
I keep relapsing.
I've been trying to quit since2006, and by now we're 2012 and,
you know, I've just, I've lostmy nursing career.
I've lost everything I own.
I mean, my daughter wasn'ttalking to me and she, you know,
just all these things I said,you want me to do backflip?
Anything you need me to do,I'm gonna try it.
(31:18):
Right?
Because I couldn't figure outwhy I kept relapsing.
And this EMDR treatment, well,it really worked for me.
It just unlocked a bunch ofthought patterns that I didn't realize
were holding me back.
But in the same breath that.
That same EMDR treatment thatwas available to my friend, she refused
to take it.
And I'm not saying that wasthe catalyst of whether.
(31:38):
Why she relapsed eight and ahalf years later, because she had,
she had a great eight and ahalf years clean.
But I'm just saying that forme, that was my trick, that I, I
fully know the moment where Iactually felt in my brain something
flipped like a switch.
And I, I understood where myunworthiness, that, that feeling
of unworthiness came.
(32:00):
And then once I understood howworthy I am, in that same breath,
that same moment, it changedeverything for me because it just
did.
So.
But, and, but how do you givethat to somebody else?
Sure you can't.
Well, yes and no.
I'm going to share with you.
People say a lot in the roomsor out in the recovery world.
(32:22):
You can't help someone who'snot willing.
And I say bs.
We create willingness all the time.
And that's kind of what we doat Silverbell.
We get called for pre intervention.
Intervention can be lifesaving if it's really a 911 situation.
But we do slow interveningwhere we get the family members involved,
those quote unquotestakeholders that are calling Us
(32:44):
to begin with.
I've never had an interventionperson call me that wants an intervention
on themselves, you know, so wework with the family members and,
and once we get them to aplace where they're ready to help
hold the boundaries, we'regoing to help create that opening
of grace we call it, so thatloved one can take that, that lifeline
into treatment or to our modelor what have you.
(33:05):
Now, to answer your questionthough, yes, I did emdr and it was
highly effective for me at theright time with the right therapist.
And it sounds like both, whichis a win.
That's like a bullseye.
We don't always get those opportunities.
People aren't sound enough orready enough to do the treatment
with a person that makes themfeel safe because safety for your
(33:25):
nervous system.
All our coaches are trained inthe Polyvagal theory by Deb Danna.
She was a co founder of thePolyvagal Institute, which is the
science behind our nervous system.
That was common sense for usas women.
It's a gut check.
It's a funny feeling.
It's a spidey sense.
I don't like the way that feels.
Right.
We all have this language for centuries.
But not until 2009 did StephenForges and Deb Nana put the science
(33:49):
behind it.
And then Deb was the one whohelped execute it into the therapeutic
environment to help regulatenervous system.
With the nervous system, kindof like what I think we're all doing
right now, I feel really safeand comfortable.
My nervous system is very regulated.
Talking to you.
Right.
I've also done the work.
I'm not just a year sober,even 30 days sober.
I wouldn't have been ready tohave that conversation to talk about
(34:09):
my nervous system, talk aboutmy past memories, which is what EMDR
helps you recreate and movethrough in a safe way.
Until I had the rightenvironment to do that in.
And that's kind of where ourcompany comes in.
We help get them into a placeof stabilization and then we help
move them into doing thatunderlying work that you're discussing.
(34:30):
Sexual grief is a real arenathese days.
There's a really greattherapist in Florida, Edie.
I forget her last name.
But she specifically helpswomen move through sexual grief.
Now, what is that?
It's.
It's like having a lot ofsexual trauma as a child, being sex
trafficked, things of those nature.
And so we're getting more andmore of that as we unfortunately
(34:52):
all know what's happening inthe world.
Yeah, yeah.
So these, these underlyingissues that you just talked about.
With your friend were so bigand so overwhelming.
She had eight years, but inthat eight years, was she able to
find a therapeutic, traumatrained and responsive therapist
who's trained in EMDR or anyother modalities, brain spotting
(35:14):
and what have you to help moveher into a pace of recovery from
those traumas that issustainable so that she doesn't regress.
And that's where having betterclinicians out there that are more
sensitive to what's going on.
Like you guys even said theold model isn't.
CBT is great.
Cognitive behavioral therapyis good, but it's not, it's not the
(35:36):
only modality out there tohelp treat these people who have
these underlying traumatic events.
Right?
Stay tuned for more of WomenRoad warriors coming up.
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
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Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
back to Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
(37:02):
The number one killer ofpeople under 50 is accidental overdose.
That's a sobering statisticthat demands change to provide a
system to fight addiction thatworks for more people.
When Natasha Silver Bell gotsober, it was a process.
It was a strong period of selfreflection and learning to understand
herself and how to break thebonds of addiction.
(37:23):
It wasn't until her pregnancyat 26 that she took a different track.
She began her recovery journeythat wasn't without significant challenges,
which included a contentiousdivorce and venturing out on her
own.
She became crystallized intoher true self.
She was able to turn her lifearound and those of others.
Today, Natasha is a highlyregarded expert in substance use
(37:45):
disorder and recovery withrecovery coaching and mentorship
she's on the board of theNational Council of Alcoholism and
Drug Dependence and serves asan ambassador for Partnership to
End Addiction.
She owns Silverbell Global,which helps people internationally.
Her organization counselspeople with substance use disorders,
eating disorders, personalitydisorders and other mental health
(38:06):
issues.
Natasha is also the co founderof Youth Prevention Mentors that
empowers young adults throughmentorship and risk mitigation, as
well as the Townhouse, aresidence in New York City that offers
bespoke treatment programstailored to the individual.
Natasha sharing some terrificinsight with us, giving our listeners
clarity with a revolutionaryapproach to addiction.
(38:27):
Natasha, like you said beforeour last break, finding the right
clinician to help people withunderlying traumatic events is so
important to break theaddiction cycle.
It really makes sense for anykind of addiction.
And I see that yourorganization helps with all kinds
of use disorders, eating,drinking, drugs, whatever it is.
(38:49):
Finding the underlying reason,there's a reason why we're stuffing
it.
We are going to an externalsource to feel better about ourselves
and maybe to numb our pain.
And if you don't address that,you're just basically putting what,
a lousy coat of paint oversomething and hoping it's going to
stick, right?
Well, yes.
(39:09):
And to your point before abouthow do we know if we're just self
doing this habit out of habit?
Maybe we know.
But guess what?
To do the underlying work.
You know, I have sexual trauma.
I didn't want to talk about itwhen I was first sober, you know,
and in rehab in 30, 60, 90 days.
They expect you to be doingyour underlying work that quickly?
(39:30):
Well, if someone is soundenough to do their work like that
within the first, you know,round of treatment, God bless them.
But I needed years ofstabilization is with a sober mind
in order to even approach.
And that's what Deb talksabout, readiness, you know, and creating
the willingness.
The only way you're going todo that is through creating a safe
relationship with someone.
(39:50):
And that's where someone likea Kathy could be a great asset.
But she just wasn't ready.
Sure.
Yeah.
The 30 day model of recoveryand rehab and so forth, that's probably
dictated a lot by theinsurance companies that want you
in and out.
Let's have a miracle, right?
And just like physicaltherapy, that has been a struggle.
When people need that,insurance companies will say, well,
(40:11):
you can have all your physicaltherapy in the next, you know, six
weeks, which should be spacedover the course of a year.
So you're actually doing moredamage in many cases by doing this
massive cram session.
I mean, people don't processthat way.
We don't do that in oureducational system.
With little ones, it takesyears for them to learn certain things.
(40:32):
You know, it does.
Like I, like I took me a totalof two years in that women's center.
I went nine months the firsttime, I went four months the second
time.
And then I re.
I relapsed again and then Iwent back for the third time.
That way I spent the whole year.
But what I, what I noticedbecause I really thought the first
(40:52):
time when I went the ninemonths that I had given it my all.
I mean, and I did, I workedreally, really hard, but I didn't
realize that there's so manylayers to trauma.
I mean, I did a 12 week sexualassault recovery group the first
time and I thought I got itall right.
And so the second time aroundor the third time when I went back,
they asked me to do again.
(41:13):
I said, well, I already did it.
And she said, no, I thinkthere's more for you to uncover.
And she was right.
I did this really thick book.
The book's about like about aninch thick.
And I redid it with differentcounselors and I uncovered memories
that I had completely blockedout the first time.
And you can only, I think themind almost purposely blocks it out
(41:35):
until you're ready to, to lookat it.
And so I had to chip away,chip away, chip away.
And it certainly didn't happenovernight because, I mean, my God,
there's so much that happenedto me that it's, it's very traumatic
and it's just, it takes timeto heal.
And that's like anything evenlike it, like my, my broken finger
(41:55):
that I broke three weeks ago.
It takes time to heal.
Yeah.
So, Natasha, can people reachout to you?
Obviously, I know we're goingto have listeners that want to, they're
hearing what you're saying.
It makes so much sense andthey're looking for that extra avenue.
They're just, you know, whenyou're going through this kind of
(42:16):
recovery, you're trying tomake a change.
You're just grasping forsomething you can hang onto that
makes sense, that keeps you onthat track.
Well said.
It is.
There's layers and layers torecovery and layers and layers to
solution.
And so yes, of course they canemail us on our inquiry at SilverbellGlobal.
We actually did a rebrandinglast year because our company's global
(42:38):
now.
And so coaching turned intoglobal, but I started a foundation
because that company is for profit.
But I just thought, I want tobe as more and more help to more
and more people as much as possible.
So we created a board.
Some alumni of our program did that.
And so it's called In Service foundation.
(42:58):
And they can certainly applythere as well if resources are limited.
Limited.
And there are some greatonline resources.
Just.
I know it can be so hard to navigate.
What's a safe.
What's a safe, you know, place to.
To go and get those resources?
So they're like theorganizations I'm a part of, the
(43:21):
National Council on Alcoholand Substance Abuse, the one that
you just spoke at.
Kathy.
I think down in Dallas,there's some really great resources.
Partnership to End Addictionis a really great resource.
They have a lot of onlineprograms and free programs.
But yeah, keep seeking, keepasking, and the answers will find
you.
So there are resources topeople who may not have insurance.
(43:44):
That's very good because Ithink that's always a barrier too.
It is, it is.
And yes, I'm with you on theinsurance model.
It is really frustrating andvery challenging.
That's why these foundationsare so beneficial.
And I love what you're doing.
You're a champion for people.
This is so needed.
And when people are caught inthe throes of addiction and certain
(44:06):
addictions are worse thanothers, opiate is just a terrible
one.
They need something that cankeep them on track because their
body's saying somethingcompletely different.
And their mind and the habits,the things that they've gotten locked
into.
You know what I would like toshare really quickly, I know we're
closing in on time is mydaughter is 17 and I was going through
(44:28):
a depressing moment recentlyand she even said to me, mom, you
seem a little down.
And for my 17 year old to evenacknowledge I have feelings as new.
But she, she has her momentsof being a human being.
God bless the teenage girl,which I was one.
And she sent me this app.
And this is the sweetest appthat I connect with her on.
And, and it's a mental healthapp for kids and it's called Finch.
(44:52):
And it's this little bird that you.
That checks in on you.
And you have daily goals ofbrushing your teeth and getting out
of bed or putting a warm towelaround your shoulders or reaching
out to a friend.
And then at the end of the dayit checks in with you.
And there are other chirp friends.
These, these Finch friends youcan become friends with.
And it is so well thought out.
(45:12):
And you know, there are a lotof great tools out there that we
have access to that are free.
So if anybody's interested anddoesn't have the resources.
Try the Finch app, and there'ssome beautiful connections on there.
So, Natasha, do you have somenuggets maybe, that listeners can
take away?
We like to have littletakeaways if they're struggling with
any kind of addiction.
(45:34):
What are some thoughts thatyou have?
Oh, I have a thank you forasking this question.
So when I was ready to reallystart putting things down, but I
didn't know it yet, I hadpushed all my real friends away because
they would actually care aboutme and challenge me and ask me how
I really was and not hang upuntil I told them.
And I couldn't just get awaywith saying, I'm fine.
(45:55):
I'm good.
How are you?
Blah, blah, blah.
They would say, how are you really?
How are you?
And it was so annoying.
And one day, one of my goodfriends that I had pushed away somehow
got through to me again.
This is 16 years ago when Ireally decided to get sober, and
she somehow got me on thephone, and I was telling her how
great my life was.
(46:17):
You know, I had this house inthe Hamptons.
I've got my kids.
I've got my cars.
Everything's just fine.
Like, leave me alone.
And she said, okay, Natasha,just don't lie to yourself.
And, ooh.
I wanted to just punch herthrough the phone, but of course,
I just said, thank you.
And that really landed on mynervous system.
(46:37):
I could hear the message.
And my point with the nuggethere is make that phone call to that
friend you know is going toreally care about how you're doing.
Well said.
We may not always like the message.
But it's gonna help.
Sure, you want to shoot themessenger sometimes.
You should.
Sure do.
(46:57):
But, you know, when peoplehave time to step back, they realize
this person cares about me.
And that's a lot of it, too.
We need to know that peoplegive a damn, you know, that's it.
And she did.
And she didn't care if I hated her.
I knew she had her motives inthe right place.
And darn it, like that, I liked.
I like to hide from all thosetrue, caring people.
When you're in your addiction,yeah, it's.
(47:20):
Easy to want to just, youknow, cloister yourself and push
people away.
And that's part of thebehavior, too.
Exactly.
So that's my nugget, is tomake that phone call to that one
person that you know willreally care about how you're doing.
I love it.
Natasha, where do people reachyour organization again?
Your inquiry I n q U E R Yinquiry at silverbell Global.
(47:44):
But there is a website inquirythat people can message us there.
Okay.
And people can go tosilverbellglobal.com for any kind
of research.
They can go up to your websiteand see what you folks do and all
of that.
Right.
There's a media page withother podcasts or articles I've written.
And our most recent article,I'm a guest writer in a luxury magazine
(48:04):
quarterly.
We're talking about veins ofgold and why gold is such a precious
metal.
And it's because it'smalleable and flexible.
And that's why, when we thinkabout how precious we are, is that
we want to be as malleable andflexible as gold.
Oh, I love that.
Yeah.
Because when you think aboutit, if we aren't malleable and flexible,
we'll break.
That's right.
(48:25):
You don't want to be rigid.
No.
And what's interesting aboutwhat makes gold so precious, besides
that, is that it actually hasto be bonded with something like
silver or platinum in order togive it the strength.
And that means having silverlike a silver lining, or having a
combination of connectionmakes you stronger.
(48:45):
Human connection.
Yes.
Natasha, this has been apowerful interview.
I know we've just kind ofscratched the.
The surface of everything, butwhat wonderful perspectives you have.
Thank you.
Thank you for shedding thelight on this and doing what you
do.
Your voice is so soothing andcomforting and Kathy, wow.
Just wow.
Thank you.
(49:06):
I'm going to say that about you.
Yes, absolutely, Natasha.
Thank you so much.
Ladies, thank you for doing this.
And definitely keep.
Keep going.
Don't stop.
Please don't stop.
Well, thank you.
It's been an honor having youon the show, Natasha.
And definitely keep going inthe direction you're going.
You're just.
You're moving mountains.
Thank you.
I really appreciate the time.
(49:28):
We hope you've enjoyed thislatest episode.
And if you want to hear moreepisodes of Women Road warriors or
learn more about our show, besure to check out womenroadwarriors.com
and please follow us on social media.
And don't forget to subscribeto our podcast on our website.
We also have a selection ofpodcasts just for women.
(49:49):
They're a series of podcastsfrom different podcasters.
So if you're in the mood forwomen's podcasts, just click the
Power network tab onwomenroadwarriors.com youm'll have
a variety of shows to listento anytime you want to.
Podcasts Made for Women, WomenRoad warriors is on all the major
podcast channels like Apple,Spotify, Amazon, Audible, YouTube
(50:10):
and others.
Check us out and please followus wherever you listen to podcasts.
Thanks for listening.
You've been listening to WomenRoad warriors with Shell Johnson
and Kathy Takaro.
If you want to be a guest onthe show or have a topic or feedback,
email us@sjohnsonomenroadwarriors.com.
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