June 24, 2025 • 50 mins
Divorce is a complicated and emotionally fraught decision that merits careful consideration, particularly for women who face unique challenges during this tumultuous period. In this discussion, we engage with Lisa Zeiderman, a highly esteemed matrimonial and family law attorney from Miller Zeiderman with Miller Zeiderman in New York, who is dedicated to empowering women to navigate the complexities of divorce. She authors a popular blog in Psychology Today about legal matters. She is regularly published in Financial Advisor Magazine and the New York Law Journal. Lisa details the critical mistakes women often make prior to filing, emphasizing the paramount importance of financial awareness and the necessity of selecting a competent attorney who will advocate vigorously on their behalf. She outlines key mistakes to avoid and offers tips for women, particularly entrepreneurs. Tune into this episode with Shelley Johnson and Kathy Tuccaro to ensure your future before and after a divorce.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
This is Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
From the corporate office tothe cab of a truck, they're here
to inspire and empower womenin all professions.
So gear down, sit back and enjoy.
(00:23):
Welcome.
We're an award winning showdinner dedicated to empowering women
in every profession throughinspiring stories and expert insights.
No topics off limits.
On our show, we power women onthe road to success with expert and
celebrity interviews andinformation you need.
I'm Shelly.
And I'm Kathy.
(00:44):
Divorce is not a decisionthat's made quickly.
It can be beyond difficult.
It's emotionally charged,painful and, and pits life partners
against each other with issuesof child custody and financial fights.
This is where women need toget the best advice possible to make
sure that they have the best outcomes.
Lisa Zeiderman is amatrimonial and family law attorney
(01:06):
with Miller Zeiterman in New York.
She's an official member ofthe Forbes Business Council.
She helps her clients tacklethe complex financial issues the
divorce brings.
Lisa is a certified financialdivorce analyst and certified financial
litigator.
She authors a popular blog inPsychology Today about legal matters.
Lisa wants women to know thatthere are key points to consider
(01:27):
during a divorce to make soundfinancial decisions that will serve
them well in the future.
She also has specific advicefor female entrepreneurs about the
challenges they face during a divorce.
Lisa's here to talk about whatwomen need to consider.
Welcome, Lisa.
Thank you for being on the show.
Thanks so much, Shelley andKathy for having me.
(01:49):
Oh, this is going to be awonderful discussion.
I mean, very, very informativefor our listeners.
You know, I know the field oflaw can be challenging, but I imagine
you've got an especiallychallenging task with divorce when
it's so emotionally charged,you end up being a counselor along
with being an advisor, don't you?
Well, we try not to be the counselor.
We, we really, you know, thisis all high stakes, complex litigation
(02:14):
that we are involved in.
And we really try to make surethat our client has an entire team
that they are working with,including us obviously, as their
counsel.
And then hopefully they have atherapist that they can work with.
And then sometimes we add onother people such as accounting firms
and, you know, forensic analysts.
(02:37):
I'm going to say that again,forensic analysts who can deal with
some of the financial mattersand sometimes even actually a court
may appoint a forensicpsychologist or a forensic psychiatrist
to analyze custody cases.
So we really try not to be the therapist.
Obviously, people are superstressed and they come to us and
(02:58):
part of what we're listeningto is their Stress.
But they need qualified peoplewho can actually deal with that on
an everyday matter.
Oh, absolutely.
You have a wealth of knowledge here.
You talk about the fivemistakes that people often make before
asking for a divorce.
What are those?
So I think that the firstthing is people wait too long.
(03:20):
So I'm going to say that theywait until things are really so bad
that they need to move outbecause they have been abused or
move out because they areemotionally abused or their children
are witnessing abuse, or theyneed to go get an order of protection
so that the other person canactually be forced to leave.
(03:43):
So I would say that isprobably mistake number one is that
they wait too long and theythink that they're sometimes waiting
for the good of their children.
But I'm also going to say thatusually their children are not surprised
that it that the marriage haslong been over because they may have
been, unfortunately, arguingin front of their children.
I would say mistake number twois that they don't know much about
(04:07):
their finances, particularly women.
They come to us and very often.
And although I hate to begender specific, it usually does
happen mostly with women wherethey just have a lack of clarity
and a lack of informationabout their financial situation.
So they don't necessarily knowwhat the incomes are for their spouse
(04:30):
or their partner.
They may not know what theassets actually are.
And maybe they didn't ask, ormaybe their partner refused to share
the information when they did ask.
I think that's.
That's certainly number two interms of mistakes.
I think that the other mistakeis that they may badmouth or disparage
(04:53):
or ridicule the other parentin front of their children.
And that is a huge mistake, nomatter what, because making sure
that your child is actuallyloving and that you're able to foster
a relationship with your childand the other parent is probably
(05:14):
one of the most importantthings that you can do in terms of
custody situations.
And then I would say numberfour may be that they have counted
on certain assets, such as ahome, that they are going to absolutely
want to keep at home, and thatthey are steadfast in that.
But that may not be always theright situation for them.
(05:36):
There may be capital gains issues.
There may be other issues asto why maybe that's not the perfect
idea.
And then I'm going to saynumber five is, and it goes back
to the financial issues, isthat they have distanced themselves
from conversations with boththeir accountant, meaning the accountant
that they share with theirspouse, and maybe the financial advisor
that actually advises the family.
(05:57):
Okay, these are all reallygood points to consider, for sure.
And I think when you're in thethe throes of considering a divorce
and everything is so chaotic,it's probably hard for clients to
focus on that kind of thing.
I mean, that that's the lastthing they really think about, isn't
really is.
So when you are in the throesof a difficult situation, last thing
(06:23):
that you're thinking about isclarity, or the last manner in which
you're thinking is clear.
Everything is coming at you,and you're just trying to get through
the day.
And so it's really importantthat you meet with an attorney, meet
with your therapist, do allthe things that are actually going
to make sure that you arelooking at this down the road and
(06:45):
making a plan for yourself.
You know, I think finding theright divorce lawyer is also a consideration.
I see you have five questionsthat someone should ask a divorce
lawyer when you interview himor her.
I don't think a lot of peoplethink about interviewing an attorney.
What are those five questions?
So in terms of questions thatyou should be asking from your attorney
(07:07):
is you certainly should askwhether they are equipped to take
your case.
You need to be asking themwhat their qualifications are.
If they actually are open toboth negotiation and to litigation.
You should be asking ifthey've actually had a case such
as your own.
For example, if you have achild who is neurodiverse, have they
(07:29):
handled cases withneurodiverse children?
If you have a case with asituation where the child has adhd,
are they familiar with thattype of situation?
If you have financialsituations that, for example, a spouse
that may have a business, havethey been involved in valuing a business,
(07:51):
hiring a forensic accountant,understanding what that means, do
they know how to read a tax return?
Do they know how to read acomplex tax return?
Are they ready and willing todeal with a spouse that is difficult,
that may be a narcissist?
These are all the types ofquestions that you certainly want
to ask them.
You also want to ask them whattheir billing rate is.
(08:12):
You want to ask them how muchthey think that this is actually
going to cost down the road.
And although they don't have acrystal ball, they should be able
to give you some sort of an estimate.
What would it take to gothrough depositions?
Are they prepared to do depositions?
What's their game plan foryour case?
Should you be filing now or waiting?
These are all questions thatyou want to ask this attorney that
(08:34):
you're interviewing, and youneed to come out of the meeting with
your attorney feeling thatthis is somebody who's going to have
your back, that's the mostimportant thing.
Oh, absolutely.
And I think sometimes peoplemaybe hire an attorney that isn't
as qualified and they don'tfeel like they have their back and
you really need that.
I mean, that's somethingthat's going to help you move forward.
(08:57):
You have to have at least theconfidence in the counsel.
You're getting 100% correct.
You must feel really goodabout this relationship, because
other than the relationshipthat you have with your spouse and
your children, this might bethe most important relationship that
you actually have with someone.
And so it's very importantthat you feel a connection with that
(09:17):
person.
I see you also talk aboutfinancial abuse and there are signs
that somebody needs to look for.
As you were saying, thatsometimes partners are not always
so forthright in terms of thefinances, or perhaps the other partner
is just left out of that.
They don't see the big picture.
Does that happen a lot?
(09:37):
Financial abuse and whatshould somebody look for?
So financial abuse is very common.
I always say it is the gatewayfor the most part, to emotional and
physical abuse.
Because if you are financiallyabused, you also don't have control
of probably one of the mostimportant features in your life,
which is the finances.
And if you don't have controlof the finances, you don't know how
(10:00):
to actually get out of the situation.
And you don't have thecapacity to do that.
You need to have the capacityto hire an attorney to.
You need to have the money andthe funds to actually get the therapists
that you need.
You need to have access to funds.
And you actually also need tounderstand what the income and the
assets and liabilities are.
(10:21):
Now, what are some things thatyou look for in terms of financial
abuse?
So one thing is, do you get tosee the tax returns or are you literally
just told to sign a piece of paper?
Right.
Are you actually given the taxreturns ahead of time and given an
opportunity to review them?
Speak to the accountant.
Remember at the beginning Ihad said one of the things that you
(10:44):
need to be able to do is toactually meet with an accountant.
Don't distance yourself fromthat particular ability to meet with
an accountant.
Ask the accountant questions.
Another sign of financialabuse is that you not only don't
have access to receive thefunds from the account to actually
go and use your ATM for anaccount or have a credit card or.
(11:07):
Or any of those things, youdon't know what the passwords are
because you're not being given Access.
So you have no idea what themarital assets are.
You have no idea what theliabilities are.
Documents such as credit cardstatements, bank statements, they
are either just gettingemailed to your spouse or they are
being sent to an address otherthan the marital residence, perhaps
your spouse's businessaddress, perhaps a relative of your
(11:30):
spouse.
That would also be a sign of.
Of financial abuse.
Although I will say thatsometimes people keep their money
separate from each other.
So it's not, it's gotta be atotality of the circumstances that
you're looking at.
Are your credit cards being cut?
Do you have access to a credit card?
Are the limits being cut onthem periodically or very often and
(11:54):
you don't feel like you're outspending.
What a budget that you andyour spouse had perhaps agreed upon,
but yet the limits are beingcut constantly until perhaps you
have no limit at all, meaningyou have no access to a credit card
at all.
Not that it's limitless, butthat you are limited in the fact
that you don't even haveaccess to a credit card.
Perhaps you literally arebeing told that the wages that you
(12:17):
earn.
The wages that you earn, it'simportant to understand this, are
need to be wired into anaccount that is only controlled by
your spouse.
So as opposed to making surethat the wages you earn may be in
a joint account or may bewired to an account that you have
control of, that that's nothappening because your spouse has
absolutely directed you to andyou are fearful of not following
(12:40):
the direction that those wagesbe wired to an account that only
your spouse controls.
I think the last, that lastpiece is one of the most important
pieces because that actuallyis defining not only for.
For people who work and womenwho work particularly, but also for
obviously people who areliterally the breadwinner for the
(13:04):
family.
And so sometimes we actuallysee the breadwinner for the family
come to us and they have beenfinancially abused because they are
literally put on an allowanceby their spouse.
The money gets wired into theaccounts that is controlled by the
spouse, and they have noaccess to it.
This is the 21st century.
It is shocking.
This still goes on.
(13:25):
It.
It is shocking, and yet not somuch, right?
Because there is a level of adesire to keep the peace, a level
of fear sometimes that peoplefeel when they're in a relationship.
And as I said, it's kind ofthe gateway to emotional and physical
(13:45):
abuse.
And so along with financialabuse, you might also be hearing
very demeaning and degradingabusive words that are directed to
you and so you start to thinkless of yourself.
You also want to prevent anyof these, you know, constant barrages,
(14:06):
these attacks on you.
And so you are just following along.
You know, I can speak fromvery many instances and experiences
from what you're just talking about.
And I remember I was pregnantwith my daughter and my ex husband,
I had to ask him for $5 to goget milk and eggs for whatever, because
(14:32):
I was.
I mean, I wasn't working.
And the look on his face,well, what do you need that for?
And it was so degrading for me to.
He'd even have to ask and thenexplain why I need the $5 that I
had my daughter in December.
By February, I was working.
And I'm like, you are nothaving access to this paycheck.
(14:53):
Good for you.
Exactly.
But that takes a lot of guts sometimes.
And a lot of people don't havethat ability to say those words.
And that's the problem.
Yeah, yeah.
Lisa, do you run into this a lot?
There's financial abuse like that?
Yes, we do.
We see this in a great many cases.
(15:14):
And it's so striking, ofcourse, when we see it at all, but
it's very striking when we seeit for the breadwinner.
And to both of your points, itis a time when you think that this
isn't going to happen anymore, Right?
That we're in this time periodwhen you think women have so many
rights and women are not goingto be abused like this and it's not
(15:37):
going to happen.
But it does.
It happens every day.
And, you know, many peoplecome to us who are married 25, 30
years and they have not beengiven access to the accounts.
They have no idea what theirfinances are.
They have no idea what theincome that their spouse earns is.
They may not know if there's abusiness, what is actually the profitability
(16:00):
of the business each year.
They are just shut out.
And as I said, you know, it'sinteresting because the other side
of this is that we are doingmore and more prenups where younger
people are wanting to keeptheir money segregated from each
other.
They.
They want to have their own accounts.
They want to keep their.
Their money separate, theirincome separate.
(16:22):
And so there is that, thatother side of this.
Right.
And that's why I was verycareful when I said to you that the
fact that people have separateaccounts, that's not in itself financial
abuse.
It's all the things that gowith the financial abuse that are
important to note.
And so it's a totality of whatyou're looking at.
(16:43):
You won't show somebody thetax return.
You won't, you know, even ifthey're signing it and it's a joint
return, they literally get itand they're told, just sign here.
And the page is flipped andit's just sign here.
And well, I want to look at it.
And the answer is no.
You just need to sign.
You don't need to know anything.
Wow.
(17:06):
Stay tuned for more of WomenRoad warriors coming up.
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
I have one question for you.
Do you want to stop worryingabout the irs?
If the answer is yes, thenlook no further.
I've been around for years.
I've helped countless peopleacross the country, and my success
rate speaks for itself.
(17:27):
So.
So now you know where to findgood, honest help with your tax problems.
What are you waiting for?
If you owe more than $10,000to the IRS or haven't filed in years,
call me now at 888-557-4020 orgo to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free
consultation and get your life back.
Industry Movement TruckingMoves America Forward is telling
(17:47):
the story of the industry.
Our safety champions, thewomen of trucking, independent contractors,
the next generation oftruckers, and more help us promote
the best of our industry.
Share your story and what youlove about trucking.
Share images of a momentyou're proud of and join us on social
media.
Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
(18:14):
back to Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson at Kathy Takaro.
If you're enjoying thisinformative episode of Women Road
Warriors, I wanted to mentionKathy and I explore all kinds of
topics that will power you onthe road to success.
We feature a lot of expertinterviews, plus we feature celebrities
(18:35):
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And tell others about us.
We want to help as many womenas possible.
If you're just joining us,we're diving into one of the toughest
and most emotional decisionsanyone can face.
Divorce.
It's rarely a quick choice.
(19:17):
It's painful, often messy, andfilled with questions about kids,
money and the future.
But here's the thing.
Too many women head into it unprepared.
They wait too long.
They don't fully understandtheir financial picture, and sometimes
they make the mistake ofspeaking negatively about their spouse
in front of the kids.
That's a no go.
(19:37):
Lisa Zeiterman says the key isknowing what to avoid before you
even file.
She's a top matrimonial andfamily law attorney with Miller Zeideman
in New York, a certifiedfinancial divorce analyst and litigator,
and a go to voice on the topicin Psychology Today.
She's also a member of theForbes Business Council.
Lisa works with women,especially business owners, to help
(19:58):
them navigate the legal andfinancial landmines of divorce.
She's here to break down thefive most common mistakes and what
you can do to protect yourselfand your future.
LISA in our last segment, wewere talking about different types
of abuse, especially financial abuse.
You know, you hear stories ofwomen who have stayed in marriages
like this, and they actuallydon't get any kind of freedom because
(20:21):
it's obviously, it's anabusive situation until the spouse
dies.
All of a sudden they have thatfreedom, but then they're not prepared
to deal with the financesbecause they never have.
So that can be disastrous as well.
Without a doubt.
That is another reason why youneed to have the information.
(20:42):
And you may actually not evenknow whether you are the beneficiary
of certain accounts.
Right.
And you may not even know whatyour rights are if your spouse dies.
You may not know if there'slife insurance for your spouse, and
maybe there's sufficientassets that there doesn't need to
be life insurance, but youkind of need to know these things.
Oh, yeah.
So it's really important thatif, if you and your spouse don't
(21:05):
have someone who you'reconsulting with, a financial advisor
that you're consulting withthat you start to sit down and you
have these conversations.
And if these conversations aresomething that you feel like you
can't have because you're tooafraid, well, that's a problem right
there.
I'm kind of curious, in termsof prenups, are you seeing a lot
more of this?
Because I, I know that thereare two groups of thought that a
(21:26):
prenup is basically pittingthe potential spouses against each
other because they don't trusteach other.
And then there are people whosay, well, it's a good idea because
you want to protect everythingyou've worked for.
It shouldn't be part of thematrimonial estate.
Are you seeing a lot more of this.
So we are doing a huge amountof prenups right now.
(21:47):
We are drafting a huge amountof prenups.
And we are big believers in prenups.
I certainly am.
I think that, first of all, itprovides transparency before people
get married as to what theassets are.
It also provides transparencyas to what the income is.
So at least you have abaseline that you probably wouldn't
have had if you didn't havethe prenup.
(22:09):
It also makes people start totalk about finances, which is, I
think, a very healthy thing to do.
And yes, you're right thatthere is this idea, which I'm not
a real believer in, that itsomehow pits people against each
other.
I think that it actually setsa roadmap for people so that they
know what they're actuallygoing to be looking at years down
(22:32):
the road if this A, doesn'twork, or B, there is, to your point,
a death.
And so prenups not only dealwith what's going to happen, you
know, during your lifetime inthe event that there's a divorce,
they also deal with the issueof what happens in the event of a
death.
For example, you may bemarrying somebody who has a great
(22:54):
deal of wealth, but perhapsit's inherited wealth, and that person
may have no intention ofsharing that inherited wealth, and
nor does that person have toshare that inherited wealth.
And so it's really importantthat you know where you stand, because
you may have this wonderfullifestyle during the marriage, and
(23:15):
then at the end of themarriage, you find out that the rest
of it is inherited and you'reonly getting a very small portion
of it, because perhaps theyare going to do what is under the
law, give you what's calledyour elective share, which is the
third of the estate there.
Also, the.
The prenup also allows you toprovide for situations where there
(23:36):
is a lot of inherited wealth.
And that inherited wealth maynot or should not pass to your spouse.
And the reason being that yourspouse may get remarried at some
point in the event of yourdeath, and then that inherited wealth
goes to a third party who youdon't even know.
And so you might want toprotect your premarital wealth, you
may want to protect yourinherited wealth, you may want to
(23:57):
protect your income.
All of this is fine as long asyou're transparent about it, because
then there's no discussionabout, well, I didn't know, I didn't
plan, I didn't work because Ithought I was being taken care of.
That's all not okay.
It's much better to Lay yourcards on the table early on and deal
with it up front.
(24:18):
You need to know what you'redealing with for sure.
Yeah, a lack of knowledge isvery dangerous.
Exactly.
Now you have considerationstoo for women who are in business,
entrepreneurs, they have aspecial set of circumstances too,
don't they, in terms of a divorce?
So women who are in business,as anyone else who's in business
(24:39):
and going through a divorce,they're going to have their business
valued.
And it's super important tounderstand that if you are building
your business during themarriage, that is a marital asset
that is going to be subject inNew York to equitable distribution.
And what I mean by that isthat usually there is a valuation
(24:59):
of the business and it is asof a certain date, usually the date
of the commencement of theaction for divorce, but sometimes
later.
And bottom line is there's anumber put on it and then there's
a percentage that is allocatedessentially that you're going to
have to pay a lump sum or overtime, a certain percentage to your
(25:20):
spouse.
And that lump sum or thatpercentage depends upon what contributions,
direct or indirect, yourspouse has made to you growing your
business during the marriage.
So perhaps your spouse hasbeen a stay at home parent and that
has allowed you to go to yourbusiness every day and not have to
worry about childcare or worryabout who's going to be making the
(25:42):
dinners or any of those kindsof things.
They show up at the parentteacher conferences, they show up
at the doctor's appointments,they allow you to focus on your business.
That is a contribution.
Perhaps you're able to traveland meet with clients or other people
that are important to your business.
Again, a contribution, it's anindirect contribution.
(26:02):
If your spouse works in thebusiness, that is a much more direct
contribution and thepercentage will likely be increased
because of that work in the business.
So it is important tounderstand that there will be some
sort of a payout, usually foryour business asset.
Perhaps you started yourbusiness before the marriage, which
is also important and thebusiness has appreciated during the
(26:25):
marriage.
Well, that appreciation willbe subject to equitable distribution.
So there will be some sort ofevaluation done for the business
as of the date of themarriage, it'll go back in time and
there will be a differentvaluation done for the calculation
of the appreciation thatoccurred during the marriage.
And again, there will be somesort of percentage tied to that appreciation
(26:49):
for the non titled spouse,meaning the person who does not own
the business.
So there are a lot ofconsiderations here.
And if things are correctly,your business could end up upside
down or heavily in debt justto pay whatever you're supposed to
pay to the other spouse.
Yes.
Because if your business isyour biggest asset, if you think
(27:09):
about it, if your business isyour biggest asset and you don't
have a lot of liquidity inother assets, you really could be
upside down here.
Because.
And look, people who have thatsituation are very, very frightened
of that situation becauseessentially they feel that they are
only getting the thing thatmakes them go to their business every
(27:30):
day and earn money to pay, youknow, for, for support for their
spouse because they are payingout for the business that they have
to go to to support the other spouse.
And there is maybe no otherliquidity from any other place.
So you really do need to planall of this out.
And again, I stress this ideaof a prenup is so helpful because
(27:52):
it can actually keep andmaintain your business for yourself.
So then it wouldn't beconsidered the matrimonial estate,
correct?
That's correct.
It will be considered yourseparate property if the prenup sets
forth that your business isyour separate property.
Okay.
Stay tuned for more of WomenRoad warriors coming up.
(28:18):
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
I have one question for you.
Do you want to stop worryingabout the irs?
If the answer is yes, thenlook no further.
I've been around for years.
I've helped countless peopleacross the country, and my success
rate speaks for itself.
So now you know where to findgood, honest help with your tax problems.
What are you waiting for?
If you owe more than $10,000to the IRS or haven't filed in years,
(28:39):
call me now at 888-557-4020 orgo to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free
consultation and get your life back.
Industry Movement TruckingMoves America Forward is telling
the story of the industry.
Our safety champions, thewomen of trucking, independent contractors,
the next generation oftruckers, and more.
(29:00):
Help us promote the best ofour industry.
Share your story and what youlove about trucking.
Share images of a momentyou're proud of and join us on social
media.
Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
back to Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kevin.
(29:27):
If you're a woman consideringdivorce, there's a lot to think about
before you take that first step.
It's emotional complex and caninvolve serious financial and custody
battles.
Too many women wait too long,don't fully understand their finances
or make the mistake ofcriticizing the other parent in front
of the kids.
And here's something Criticalyour attorney matters.
(29:50):
Interview them.
Ask them about their game planand experience.
You need to know that personhas your back.
Because if you can't trustyour attorney, who can you trust?
Lisa Zeiderman, a topmatrimonial and family law attorney
and certified financialdivorce analyst with Miller Zeiderman
in New York, helps women,especially business owners, avoid
costly mistakes and makesmart, informed decisions.
(30:13):
She's nationally published inmajor trade publications and legal
journals and is sharing whatyou need to know.
In our previous segment, wewere discussing a lot of the financial
considerations you have tothink about not only in divorce,
but in matrimony.
I could see where this couldget really messy.
And I was gonna say we'rereally ugly.
Oh, yeah.
(30:34):
Oh, my goodness.
And especially if you starteda business, there's some emotional
attachment to that, too.
I mean, you feel like you'rebeing attacked by this life partner
when they're trying to get achunk of that.
Yes, that.
That is a hundred percent true.
You do feel like you're being attacked.
And I think that the importantthing to understand is, in New York,
(30:56):
that marriage is a financial partnership.
So while, you know, you.
You asked me earlier aboutthis idea of prenups and that people
are being pitted against each other.
Well, they're not really beingpitted against each other.
The reality of gettingmarried, the difference between getting
married and just livingtogether is the fact that you are
(31:17):
now, under New York law,entering into a financial partnership.
And I think people need tounderstand that because there are
certain rules and laws that goalong with that entry into a financial
relationship, just like anyother relationship.
So, yes, it is filled withlove and all of those warm and fuzzy
(31:38):
things, but the reality isthat there are laws protect each
of you.
And so you need to make surethat you have considered those laws
and considered what theramifications are in terms of marriage
and your financial situation.
And this can vary from stateto state, correct?
Absolutely, absolutely.
(31:59):
Like, for example, Californiais a community property state.
It's very different than New York.
New York is an equitabledistribution state where we look
at what each party'scontribution, either direct or indirect,
is.
California is much more, Ithink, straightforward in terms of
what the expectation is andthat most things are divided on a
(32:20):
50, 50 type of basis.
So they're very different fromeach other.
So somebody consideringdivorce, they need to do a little
bit of homework on some ofthis, shouldn't they?
And ideally maybe do theirhomework before they get married?
Exactly.
They should be doing theirhomework before they get married.
Already planning the divorcebefore you say I do.
Well, no, you know, you'replanning, okay, for, you're, you're
(32:44):
really planning for what willhappen through your lifetime.
Right.
And then after your death.
And it really can protect both people.
And I really mean this.
I, I don't think if you lookat a prenup as something that is
bad for one or, and good forthe other.
Well, that's not really theway that I look at that.
(33:05):
That I look at it as this isyour place and your time to negotiate
it.
It's also your place and yourtime to understand what you need
to do for yourself during the marriage.
So, for example, the stay athome mom who comes to me, who 25
or 30 years after they've beena stay at home mom, and Maybe they
get 50% of the assets becausethere's no prenup.
(33:27):
But what happens to them interms of support?
Their husband may be making a,a lot of money, I mean, sometimes
millions.
Right.
And they have been at a stayat home.
And what are they going to earn?
Well, they're not going toearn anywhere near likely after 25
or 30 years of being outsideof a workforce, anywhere near their
spouse, because they havenever been on that trajectory in
(33:49):
terms of employment.
And wouldn't it have beenbetter for those women to know what
was ahead of them, thatthey're not going to be taken care
of for the rest of theirlives, that they needed to build
a career, that perhaps stayingat home, while very fulfilling in
a lot of ways, didn't protect them?
And so wouldn't it have beenbetter for them to know that up front
(34:11):
than to find it out in acourtroom years and years later that,
oh, you know, after a 30 yearmarriage, maybe I'm only getting,
you know, 10 years ofmaintenance, spousal support.
Maybe I'm not getting anywherenear what my lifestyle was.
Is that the time that theyshould find this out?
No, it's not.
Oh, no, not at all yet.
(34:33):
Oh, that's a recipe for disaster.
And that's how people end upin, in terrible situations.
You know, they get 10 years ofworth of support.
What do they do with the restof their lives?
And can they start over?
Depending on how long they'vebeen in the marriage, they're literally
having to figure out, okay,what do I do with the rest of my
life?
What do I want to be when Igrow up?
(34:53):
What kind of career could I start?
I mean, wow, that's a tough one.
Exactly.
Now you have a financialchecklist that you recommend when
somebody's Looking intodivorce, what are some of the things
that people should consider sothey need to look at?
They need to actually collectas many financial documents as they
can, right?
(35:14):
So last five years of taxreturns, any documentation in terms
of their separate property claims.
So, for example, you came intothe marriage with a certain amount
of assets.
You should actually go backand see if you can trace and track
those assets.
Account statements, copies ofall the account statements that you
(35:34):
can get your hands onto,whether it be bank accounts, investment
accounts, retirement accounts,for both you and your spouse.
All of those are really important.
Credit card statements, anycredit card statements that you can
find.
You know, years ago, I had aclient, and I always talk about her.
She literally would hand usthese little breadcrumbs.
(35:55):
They would be in these littleripped pieces of paper because she
would pull them out of thegarbage, literally out of the garbage.
And they were clues as towhere assets were.
And we found millions ofdollars worth of assets because she
actually saved these littlepieces of paper with account numbers
or phone numbers or, you know,clues as to who and where monies
(36:20):
were located.
And when we went to do thediscovery, I'll never forget, actually
I was doing a deposition ofthe husband, and I said something
like, well, there's nothing onyour net worth statement.
You've basically put nothingon your net worth statement to tell
us what your finances are.
It's completely blank.
And I said, how are we to knowwhat your finances are?
And he said something like,well, you'll just do what you're
(36:42):
doing.
You'll keep subpoenaing and looking.
And that is what we had to doduring the entire case.
Now, interestingly, because hewouldn't turn over information, there
was a negative inferenceactually posed on him by the court.
And so she ended up gettingmuch more of the assets that we did
find, which is the correctthing to do.
But I will tell you that youshould certainly, for your meeting
(37:05):
with an attorney, find as muchas you can in terms of these financial
statements.
Even if it's one statementthat you happen to find for an American
Express account, it's thestart of something, because somebody
paid American Express and thathad an account that was paid, that
it was paid from.
And that's the beginning ofthe trail.
Financial statements.
(37:25):
If your spouse is givingfinancial statements to banks, that's
important.
If you've applied for amortgage, those financial statements
are really important becausethey actually will tell us actually
how much an asset your spousebelieves that they have.
It's important.
What I'm hearing here, forwomen to really be informed when
they're in a marriage.
Not knowing the financialdata, that's like not knowing if
(37:49):
you have a roof over yourhouse that's got a leak.
I mean, it's just not sustainable.
And of course, people aregoing to do what they're going to
do.
But would you say that women,when they're in a marriage, should
really insist on the transparency?
Yes, I think everybody shouldbe insisting on the transparency.
Unless your deal is different.
Right?
Unless your deal is different.
(38:09):
I think everybody should beinsisting on transparency.
Right.
So when I say that unless youhave a prenup that says everything
he earns, he earns, everythingshe earns, she earns, everything
they earn, they earn.
Right.
The bottom line is, is thatyou really want to insist on transparency
if that is your deal.
And.
And I think everybody hastheir own relationship.
(38:31):
Look, there are alsosituations where we see in marriages
that somebody is utilizing thejoint account all the time, and yet
they have their own separate account.
Everything is joint except forthe own.
Their own separate accountthat they have decided that they're
keeping.
So one spouse is puttingeverything into the joint accounts,
everything into accounts thatare for the family, and one spouse
(38:54):
is basically got their ownslush fund.
Well, you know, the personwith the slush fund really can't
be complaining that they don'tknow everything, because perhaps
they're creating that slushfund, which is creating a problem.
So it depends on what yourmarriage is about.
If your marriage is abouttransparency, then that's what everybody
should be is transparent.
(39:14):
If your marriage is about, youknow, keeping your assets separate,
and that is what you havedetermined is the right thing for
your family, that's great, butfrankly, it should be codified in
a document.
Yes.
And when I say a document,either a prenup or a postnup, that
makes sense.
Everybody knows what's going on.
It only makes sense if youhave a spouse who wants to control
(39:36):
and you have an abusivespouse, you can see where the transparency
would be seriously lacking.
Unfortunately, that's exactly right.
And that is a reason perhaps,to start to have a consultation with
a divorce attorney.
So what do you do if somebody.
If you want a prenup and theperson you want to marry doesn't,
is that kind of a red flag tosay, well, maybe this shouldn't go
(39:58):
through?
Yeah, I think that you have todecide for yourself whether that's
a red flag.
You know, there are certainlyplenty of people who come to us who
have decided that no matterwhat, they are going to have that
prenup and they will not getmarried without that prenup because
there is just too much interms of either premarital or inherited
(40:19):
property that they are willingto risk.
And the fact is that divorceis frequent and common, and you need
to be open to signing aprenuptial agreement.
And I'm going to also say tothe people who are asking that the
prenuptial agreement besigned, that is not something that
you present, you know, a weekbefore the marriage is supposed to
(40:41):
actually occur.
That is something that shouldbe spoken about very early on, perhaps
before the engagement, eventhat, you know, if.
If and when we get married, orif we.
If I ever get married, Icertainly will want a prenup so that
it's not a shocker to somebody.
Right.
It doesn't have to be.
If we get married.
It could be just, you know,I've always thought about, if I get
(41:03):
married, I'm going to actuallyhave a prenuptial agreement.
What are your thoughts on aprenuptial agreement?
So that, you know, going in,whether this is a consideration for
somebody or whether they'regoing to say, you know, you want
to.
If.
If you want a prenup, I'm notgetting married.
Well, that may be the red flagthat says this is not the right situation
for me.
If there's too much, frankly,in terms of risk of finances.
(41:26):
Sure, yeah.
Because you have to have moneyto survive.
You know, that's kind of the reality.
People don't live out on theplains in a log cabin somewhere.
So money is definitelysomething that is part of your security.
And if you want to raisechildren and all of that, you want
security for them, you have tobe able to pay to pay the bills.
(41:48):
Now, you also haveconsiderations that you recommend
people consider if they planon marrying again.
So that goes back to if theyplan on marrying again.
They need to make sure thatthey are protecting the property
that they just probably fought for.
Right.
So.
Right.
Okay.
(42:09):
And they also need to considerthe age where they are and that they
might already have a spousalsupport situation where they're supporting
somebody.
They may have child support obligations.
These are all super important considerations.
And I hate to say it, becauseI sound like a broken record, but
they are reasons for a prenupbecause you do not want to be paying
(42:32):
spousal support your entire lifetime.
That is not really the object here.
And so if you're gettingmarried again, if this is a second
marriage for you, a prenupseems like the most logical thing
to do because you may haveassets that you want to protect.
The other person may haveassets that they want to protect.
You may also have committedcertain things in your first agreement,
(42:54):
your divorce agreement, thathave to be taken into consideration,
obligations that you may have.
It may be unfair, for example,that the other person, the person
that you're marrying has tomake payments for these obligations.
And so these are absolutelyall discussions that should be had.
Makes total sense.
(43:14):
Well, you know, when you thinkabout it, marriage is a, it's a legal
contract.
When you do anything else inlife, you have to have the transparency
you need to have the legal documentation.
It's not pleasant.
But to have all of that rightout in front, it just simplifies
things so much and it's necessary.
I think people don't want tothink about, gee, there could be
(43:37):
a divorce.
We don't want to think aboutthose things, just like we don't
want to think about peopledying either.
But that's where you have tohave the documents in place so that
people are protected.
Exactly.
I think it's having the eyesto see and the ears to hear what
really is going on, you know,to raise your internal antenna, I
(43:58):
guess, to say, and protect yourself.
Be smart about it.
Don't go in, you know, withthe horse blinders on and thinking,
oh, this is all rosy and peachy.
Reality is reality.
Life is life.
Things happen.
Right.
People change, situations change.
And I think by going insmarter is going to be benefit yourself
(44:21):
down the road, you know, not,not preventing yourself from, from
what could be, like you saidearlier, Shelley, a disastrous situation.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Look, you know, we're grownups, right?
Everybody's a grownup who'sgoing to be getting married.
And we need to think like grownups.
And adults need to makecertain decisions and they need to
(44:44):
make provisions for theirfuture and for the future of their
loved ones.
And so they need to act likeadults and they need to treat this
very seriously.
This is a serious relationshippartnership that you are entering
into.
Absolutely.
So for our listeners who arenot in New York State, where do they
(45:08):
get information on all of this?
I mean, everybody has theirown situation financially and everything
else.
Is there a good resource maybeon the Internet?
So I think that you shouldlook at.
Well, certainly for New YorkState, you can look at my blog, which
is Lisa zeiderman.com Butthere are, in your state, wherever
your listener is, there willbe other blogs on other attorneys
(45:32):
sites that they can start to read.
There are certainly placessuch as the Financial Advisor magazine
that they can look at there are.
There is a great source, frankly.
I am chair of the board of anorganization known as Savvy Ladies.
Savvy Ladies is a non forprofit organization, 501C3 that has
(45:55):
a financial helpline wherewomen can call in free of charge,
be paired with a financialprofessional one on one@savvyladies.org
s a v v y l a d I e s.org andthere is an app that you could also
download for Savvy Ladieswhere the financial professional
(46:16):
and you will be connectedthrough this app and they will take
your question once you'vesigned in and done all the paperwork
so that you can actually askyour financial questions and get
your financial answers.
Excellent.
How do people reach out toyou, Lisa?
So they could contact methrough my blog, Lisa Zeiderman like
(46:38):
my name and they there is acontact form there which will go
straight to my email.
They can email me directly atlzw-law.com or they can call at 914.455.1000.
So basically anybody withquestions can just reach out.
(46:59):
You are a wealth of knowledgeand I want to commend you for educating
women especially.
Yeah, no kidding.
So important.
You know, these are topicspeople don't want to talk about,
but if they listen at least toa podcast, perhaps they're going
to be more empowered to makethe right decision.
Well, and I appreciate that.
I think that it's reallyimportant that they listen to the
(47:22):
podcast that they, you know,as I said, they can go on, for example,
the Savvy Ladies blog.
Also there's informationthat's a nationwide organization
and they should speak to theirfriends and certainly therapists
and there's a wealth ofknowledge of information out there
and you just need to belooking and reading and making sure
(47:45):
that you are doing and makingyourself financially healthy.
I totally agree.
And knowledge that gives youempowerment and you're not going
to be as desperate.
I mean, you don't want to dothings out of desperation.
You need to be informed whenyou're going through this process.
And maybe it's also going tobring more women forward.
If they're in an abusiverelationship, they've got this knowledge,
(48:07):
they're going to have thecourage to finally file for that
divorce.
That's 100% true, without a doubt.
Thank you, Lisa.
This has been super informative.
Well, I really appreciate it.
I really appreciate both ofyou and you asked such great questions.
So I hope that it's helpful toyour listeners and it should be because
they were really greatquestions that you asked.
(48:30):
Well, thank you, Lisa.
Yes.
And I learned something.
I know that I went through adivorce years ago when I was very
young.
It got messy.
I mean, we fought over custodyof a cat.
Oh, my goodness.
It was ridiculous.
And I got custody, by the way.
I have no doubt about that.
It's interesting that you say that.
I'm just going to add.
You know, what's interestingabout that right now is that there
(48:54):
is now a best intereststandard that is used for custody
of animals.
Animals.
So while they are stillconsidered property, they also have
a much more.
A different standard that they.
That is being utilized todivide animals.
Interesting.
Wow.
Okay.
Wow.
Yeah.
Actually, I used somethinglike that tactic when I was talking
(49:17):
to the mediator.
We had a mediator because wewere so young and stuff.
We didn't have a bunch of acids.
And I basically made it clearthat the cat didn't.
Didn't like my ex and had peedin his tennis shoes on top of it.
And of course, no, if that's not.
Proof, I don't know what is.
Right.
Right.
So thank you, Lisa.
This has been super helpful.
I really appreciate you beingon our show.
(49:38):
Thank you so much and thankyou for having me.
Thank you.
Thank you.
We hope you've enjoyed thislatest episode.
And if you want to hear moreepisodes of Women Road warriors or
learn more about our show, besure to check out womenroadwarriors.com
and please follow us on social media.
And don't forget to subscribeto our podcast on our website.
(49:59):
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(50:21):
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Thanks for listening.
You've been listening to WomenRoad warriors with Shelly Johnson
and Kathy Tucaro.
If you want to be a guest onthe show or have topic or feedback,
(50:43):
email us@sjohnsonomenroadwarriors.com.
This is Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
From the corporate office tothe cab of a truck, they're here
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So gear down, sit back and enjoy.
(00:23):
Welcome.
We're an award winning showdinner dedicated to empowering women
in every profession throughinspiring stories and expert insights.
No topics off limits.
On our show, we power women onthe road to success with expert and
celebrity interviews andinformation you need.
I'm Shelly.
And I'm Kathy.
(00:44):
Divorce is not a decisionthat's made quickly.
It can be beyond difficult.
It's emotionally charged,painful and, and pits life partners
against each other with issuesof child custody and financial fights.
This is where women need toget the best advice possible to make
sure that they have the best outcomes.
Lisa Zeiderman is amatrimonial and family law attorney
(01:06):
with Miller Zeiterman in New York.
She's an official member ofthe Forbes Business Council.
She helps her clients tacklethe complex financial issues the
divorce brings.
Lisa is a certified financialdivorce analyst and certified financial
litigator.
She authors a popular blog inPsychology Today about legal matters.
Lisa wants women to know thatthere are key points to consider
(01:27):
during a divorce to make soundfinancial decisions that will serve
them well in the future.
She also has specific advicefor female entrepreneurs about the
challenges they face during a divorce.
Lisa's here to talk about whatwomen need to consider.
Welcome, Lisa.
Thank you for being on the show.
Thanks so much, Shelley andKathy for having me.
(01:49):
Oh, this is going to be awonderful discussion.
I mean, very, very informativefor our listeners.
You know, I know the field oflaw can be challenging, but I imagine
you've got an especiallychallenging task with divorce when
it's so emotionally charged,you end up being a counselor along
with being an advisor, don't you?
Well, we try not to be the counselor.
We, we really, you know, thisis all high stakes, complex litigation
(02:14):
that we are involved in.
And we really try to make surethat our client has an entire team
that they are working with,including us obviously, as their
counsel.
And then hopefully they have atherapist that they can work with.
And then sometimes we add onother people such as accounting firms
and, you know, forensic analysts.
(02:37):
I'm going to say that again,forensic analysts who can deal with
some of the financial mattersand sometimes even actually a court
may appoint a forensicpsychologist or a forensic psychiatrist
to analyze custody cases.
So we really try not to be the therapist.
Obviously, people are superstressed and they come to us and
(02:58):
part of what we're listeningto is their Stress.
But they need qualified peoplewho can actually deal with that on
an everyday matter.
Oh, absolutely.
You have a wealth of knowledge here.
You talk about the fivemistakes that people often make before
asking for a divorce.
What are those?
So I think that the firstthing is people wait too long.
(03:20):
So I'm going to say that theywait until things are really so bad
that they need to move outbecause they have been abused or
move out because they areemotionally abused or their children
are witnessing abuse, or theyneed to go get an order of protection
so that the other person canactually be forced to leave.
(03:43):
So I would say that isprobably mistake number one is that
they wait too long and theythink that they're sometimes waiting
for the good of their children.
But I'm also going to say thatusually their children are not surprised
that it that the marriage haslong been over because they may have
been, unfortunately, arguingin front of their children.
I would say mistake number twois that they don't know much about
(04:07):
their finances, particularly women.
They come to us and very often.
And although I hate to begender specific, it usually does
happen mostly with women wherethey just have a lack of clarity
and a lack of informationabout their financial situation.
So they don't necessarily knowwhat the incomes are for their spouse
(04:30):
or their partner.
They may not know what theassets actually are.
And maybe they didn't ask, ormaybe their partner refused to share
the information when they did ask.
I think that's.
That's certainly number two interms of mistakes.
I think that the other mistakeis that they may badmouth or disparage
(04:53):
or ridicule the other parentin front of their children.
And that is a huge mistake, nomatter what, because making sure
that your child is actuallyloving and that you're able to foster
a relationship with your childand the other parent is probably
(05:14):
one of the most importantthings that you can do in terms of
custody situations.
And then I would say numberfour may be that they have counted
on certain assets, such as ahome, that they are going to absolutely
want to keep at home, and thatthey are steadfast in that.
But that may not be always theright situation for them.
(05:36):
There may be capital gains issues.
There may be other issues asto why maybe that's not the perfect
idea.
And then I'm going to saynumber five is, and it goes back
to the financial issues, isthat they have distanced themselves
from conversations with boththeir accountant, meaning the accountant
that they share with theirspouse, and maybe the financial advisor
that actually advises the family.
(05:57):
Okay, these are all reallygood points to consider, for sure.
And I think when you're in thethe throes of considering a divorce
and everything is so chaotic,it's probably hard for clients to
focus on that kind of thing.
I mean, that that's the lastthing they really think about, isn't
really is.
So when you are in the throesof a difficult situation, last thing
(06:23):
that you're thinking about isclarity, or the last manner in which
you're thinking is clear.
Everything is coming at you,and you're just trying to get through
the day.
And so it's really importantthat you meet with an attorney, meet
with your therapist, do allthe things that are actually going
to make sure that you arelooking at this down the road and
(06:45):
making a plan for yourself.
You know, I think finding theright divorce lawyer is also a consideration.
I see you have five questionsthat someone should ask a divorce
lawyer when you interview himor her.
I don't think a lot of peoplethink about interviewing an attorney.
What are those five questions?
So in terms of questions thatyou should be asking from your attorney
(07:07):
is you certainly should askwhether they are equipped to take
your case.
You need to be asking themwhat their qualifications are.
If they actually are open toboth negotiation and to litigation.
You should be asking ifthey've actually had a case such
as your own.
For example, if you have achild who is neurodiverse, have they
(07:29):
handled cases withneurodiverse children?
If you have a case with asituation where the child has adhd,
are they familiar with thattype of situation?
If you have financialsituations that, for example, a spouse
that may have a business, havethey been involved in valuing a business,
(07:51):
hiring a forensic accountant,understanding what that means, do
they know how to read a tax return?
Do they know how to read acomplex tax return?
Are they ready and willing todeal with a spouse that is difficult,
that may be a narcissist?
These are all the types ofquestions that you certainly want
to ask them.
You also want to ask them whattheir billing rate is.
(08:12):
You want to ask them how muchthey think that this is actually
going to cost down the road.
And although they don't have acrystal ball, they should be able
to give you some sort of an estimate.
What would it take to gothrough depositions?
Are they prepared to do depositions?
What's their game plan foryour case?
Should you be filing now or waiting?
These are all questions thatyou want to ask this attorney that
(08:34):
you're interviewing, and youneed to come out of the meeting with
your attorney feeling thatthis is somebody who's going to have
your back, that's the mostimportant thing.
Oh, absolutely.
And I think sometimes peoplemaybe hire an attorney that isn't
as qualified and they don'tfeel like they have their back and
you really need that.
I mean, that's somethingthat's going to help you move forward.
(08:57):
You have to have at least theconfidence in the counsel.
You're getting 100% correct.
You must feel really goodabout this relationship, because
other than the relationshipthat you have with your spouse and
your children, this might bethe most important relationship that
you actually have with someone.
And so it's very importantthat you feel a connection with that
(09:17):
person.
I see you also talk aboutfinancial abuse and there are signs
that somebody needs to look for.
As you were saying, thatsometimes partners are not always
so forthright in terms of thefinances, or perhaps the other partner
is just left out of that.
They don't see the big picture.
Does that happen a lot?
(09:37):
Financial abuse and whatshould somebody look for?
So financial abuse is very common.
I always say it is the gatewayfor the most part, to emotional and
physical abuse.
Because if you are financiallyabused, you also don't have control
of probably one of the mostimportant features in your life,
which is the finances.
And if you don't have controlof the finances, you don't know how
(10:00):
to actually get out of the situation.
And you don't have thecapacity to do that.
You need to have the capacityto hire an attorney to.
You need to have the money andthe funds to actually get the therapists
that you need.
You need to have access to funds.
And you actually also need tounderstand what the income and the
assets and liabilities are.
(10:21):
Now, what are some things thatyou look for in terms of financial
abuse?
So one thing is, do you get tosee the tax returns or are you literally
just told to sign a piece of paper?
Right.
Are you actually given the taxreturns ahead of time and given an
opportunity to review them?
Speak to the accountant.
Remember at the beginning Ihad said one of the things that you
(10:44):
need to be able to do is toactually meet with an accountant.
Don't distance yourself fromthat particular ability to meet with
an accountant.
Ask the accountant questions.
Another sign of financialabuse is that you not only don't
have access to receive thefunds from the account to actually
go and use your ATM for anaccount or have a credit card or.
(11:07):
Or any of those things, youdon't know what the passwords are
because you're not being given Access.
So you have no idea what themarital assets are.
You have no idea what theliabilities are.
Documents such as credit cardstatements, bank statements, they
are either just gettingemailed to your spouse or they are
being sent to an address otherthan the marital residence, perhaps
your spouse's businessaddress, perhaps a relative of your
(11:30):
spouse.
That would also be a sign of.
Of financial abuse.
Although I will say thatsometimes people keep their money
separate from each other.
So it's not, it's gotta be atotality of the circumstances that
you're looking at.
Are your credit cards being cut?
Do you have access to a credit card?
Are the limits being cut onthem periodically or very often and
(11:54):
you don't feel like you're outspending.
What a budget that you andyour spouse had perhaps agreed upon,
but yet the limits are beingcut constantly until perhaps you
have no limit at all, meaningyou have no access to a credit card
at all.
Not that it's limitless, butthat you are limited in the fact
that you don't even haveaccess to a credit card.
Perhaps you literally arebeing told that the wages that you
(12:17):
earn.
The wages that you earn, it'simportant to understand this, are
need to be wired into anaccount that is only controlled by
your spouse.
So as opposed to making surethat the wages you earn may be in
a joint account or may bewired to an account that you have
control of, that that's nothappening because your spouse has
absolutely directed you to andyou are fearful of not following
(12:40):
the direction that those wagesbe wired to an account that only
your spouse controls.
I think the last, that lastpiece is one of the most important
pieces because that actuallyis defining not only for.
For people who work and womenwho work particularly, but also for
obviously people who areliterally the breadwinner for the
(13:04):
family.
And so sometimes we actuallysee the breadwinner for the family
come to us and they have beenfinancially abused because they are
literally put on an allowanceby their spouse.
The money gets wired into theaccounts that is controlled by the
spouse, and they have noaccess to it.
This is the 21st century.
It is shocking.
This still goes on.
(13:25):
It.
It is shocking, and yet not somuch, right?
Because there is a level of adesire to keep the peace, a level
of fear sometimes that peoplefeel when they're in a relationship.
And as I said, it's kind ofthe gateway to emotional and physical
(13:45):
abuse.
And so along with financialabuse, you might also be hearing
very demeaning and degradingabusive words that are directed to
you and so you start to thinkless of yourself.
You also want to prevent anyof these, you know, constant barrages,
(14:06):
these attacks on you.
And so you are just following along.
You know, I can speak fromvery many instances and experiences
from what you're just talking about.
And I remember I was pregnantwith my daughter and my ex husband,
I had to ask him for $5 to goget milk and eggs for whatever, because
(14:32):
I was.
I mean, I wasn't working.
And the look on his face,well, what do you need that for?
And it was so degrading for me to.
He'd even have to ask and thenexplain why I need the $5 that I
had my daughter in December.
By February, I was working.
And I'm like, you are nothaving access to this paycheck.
(14:53):
Good for you.
Exactly.
But that takes a lot of guts sometimes.
And a lot of people don't havethat ability to say those words.
And that's the problem.
Yeah, yeah.
Lisa, do you run into this a lot?
There's financial abuse like that?
Yes, we do.
We see this in a great many cases.
(15:14):
And it's so striking, ofcourse, when we see it at all, but
it's very striking when we seeit for the breadwinner.
And to both of your points, itis a time when you think that this
isn't going to happen anymore, Right?
That we're in this time periodwhen you think women have so many
rights and women are not goingto be abused like this and it's not
(15:37):
going to happen.
But it does.
It happens every day.
And, you know, many peoplecome to us who are married 25, 30
years and they have not beengiven access to the accounts.
They have no idea what theirfinances are.
They have no idea what theincome that their spouse earns is.
They may not know if there's abusiness, what is actually the profitability
(16:00):
of the business each year.
They are just shut out.
And as I said, you know, it'sinteresting because the other side
of this is that we are doingmore and more prenups where younger
people are wanting to keeptheir money segregated from each
other.
They.
They want to have their own accounts.
They want to keep their.
Their money separate, theirincome separate.
(16:22):
And so there is that, thatother side of this.
Right.
And that's why I was verycareful when I said to you that the
fact that people have separateaccounts, that's not in itself financial
abuse.
It's all the things that gowith the financial abuse that are
important to note.
And so it's a totality of whatyou're looking at.
(16:43):
You won't show somebody thetax return.
You won't, you know, even ifthey're signing it and it's a joint
return, they literally get itand they're told, just sign here.
And the page is flipped andit's just sign here.
And well, I want to look at it.
And the answer is no.
You just need to sign.
You don't need to know anything.
Wow.
(17:06):
Stay tuned for more of WomenRoad warriors coming up.
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
I have one question for you.
Do you want to stop worryingabout the irs?
If the answer is yes, thenlook no further.
I've been around for years.
I've helped countless peopleacross the country, and my success
rate speaks for itself.
(17:27):
So.
So now you know where to findgood, honest help with your tax problems.
What are you waiting for?
If you owe more than $10,000to the IRS or haven't filed in years,
call me now at 888-557-4020 orgo to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free
consultation and get your life back.
Industry Movement TruckingMoves America Forward is telling
(17:47):
the story of the industry.
Our safety champions, thewomen of trucking, independent contractors,
the next generation oftruckers, and more help us promote
the best of our industry.
Share your story and what youlove about trucking.
Share images of a momentyou're proud of and join us on social
media.
Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
(18:14):
back to Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson at Kathy Takaro.
If you're enjoying thisinformative episode of Women Road
Warriors, I wanted to mentionKathy and I explore all kinds of
topics that will power you onthe road to success.
We feature a lot of expertinterviews, plus we feature celebrities
(18:35):
and women who've been trailblazers.
Please check out ourpodcast@womenroadwarriors.com and
click on our Episodes page.
We're also available whereveryou listen to podcasts on all the
major podcast channels likeSpotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon,
Music, Audible, you name it.
Check us out and bookmark our podcast.
(18:55):
Also, don't forget to followus on social media.
We're on Twitter, Facebook,Instagram, Pinterest, LinkedIn, YouTube
and other sites.
And tell others about us.
We want to help as many womenas possible.
If you're just joining us,we're diving into one of the toughest
and most emotional decisionsanyone can face.
Divorce.
It's rarely a quick choice.
(19:17):
It's painful, often messy, andfilled with questions about kids,
money and the future.
But here's the thing.
Too many women head into it unprepared.
They wait too long.
They don't fully understandtheir financial picture, and sometimes
they make the mistake ofspeaking negatively about their spouse
in front of the kids.
That's a no go.
(19:37):
Lisa Zeiterman says the key isknowing what to avoid before you
even file.
She's a top matrimonial andfamily law attorney with Miller Zeideman
in New York, a certifiedfinancial divorce analyst and litigator,
and a go to voice on the topicin Psychology Today.
She's also a member of theForbes Business Council.
Lisa works with women,especially business owners, to help
(19:58):
them navigate the legal andfinancial landmines of divorce.
She's here to break down thefive most common mistakes and what
you can do to protect yourselfand your future.
LISA in our last segment, wewere talking about different types
of abuse, especially financial abuse.
You know, you hear stories ofwomen who have stayed in marriages
like this, and they actuallydon't get any kind of freedom because
(20:21):
it's obviously, it's anabusive situation until the spouse
dies.
All of a sudden they have thatfreedom, but then they're not prepared
to deal with the financesbecause they never have.
So that can be disastrous as well.
Without a doubt.
That is another reason why youneed to have the information.
(20:42):
And you may actually not evenknow whether you are the beneficiary
of certain accounts.
Right.
And you may not even know whatyour rights are if your spouse dies.
You may not know if there'slife insurance for your spouse, and
maybe there's sufficientassets that there doesn't need to
be life insurance, but youkind of need to know these things.
Oh, yeah.
So it's really important thatif, if you and your spouse don't
(21:05):
have someone who you'reconsulting with, a financial advisor
that you're consulting withthat you start to sit down and you
have these conversations.
And if these conversations aresomething that you feel like you
can't have because you're tooafraid, well, that's a problem right
there.
I'm kind of curious, in termsof prenups, are you seeing a lot
more of this?
Because I, I know that thereare two groups of thought that a
(21:26):
prenup is basically pittingthe potential spouses against each
other because they don't trusteach other.
And then there are people whosay, well, it's a good idea because
you want to protect everythingyou've worked for.
It shouldn't be part of thematrimonial estate.
Are you seeing a lot more of this.
So we are doing a huge amountof prenups right now.
(21:47):
We are drafting a huge amountof prenups.
And we are big believers in prenups.
I certainly am.
I think that, first of all, itprovides transparency before people
get married as to what theassets are.
It also provides transparencyas to what the income is.
So at least you have abaseline that you probably wouldn't
have had if you didn't havethe prenup.
(22:09):
It also makes people start totalk about finances, which is, I
think, a very healthy thing to do.
And yes, you're right thatthere is this idea, which I'm not
a real believer in, that itsomehow pits people against each
other.
I think that it actually setsa roadmap for people so that they
know what they're actuallygoing to be looking at years down
(22:32):
the road if this A, doesn'twork, or B, there is, to your point,
a death.
And so prenups not only dealwith what's going to happen, you
know, during your lifetime inthe event that there's a divorce,
they also deal with the issueof what happens in the event of a
death.
For example, you may bemarrying somebody who has a great
(22:54):
deal of wealth, but perhapsit's inherited wealth, and that person
may have no intention ofsharing that inherited wealth, and
nor does that person have toshare that inherited wealth.
And so it's really importantthat you know where you stand, because
you may have this wonderfullifestyle during the marriage, and
(23:15):
then at the end of themarriage, you find out that the rest
of it is inherited and you'reonly getting a very small portion
of it, because perhaps theyare going to do what is under the
law, give you what's calledyour elective share, which is the
third of the estate there.
Also, the.
The prenup also allows you toprovide for situations where there
(23:36):
is a lot of inherited wealth.
And that inherited wealth maynot or should not pass to your spouse.
And the reason being that yourspouse may get remarried at some
point in the event of yourdeath, and then that inherited wealth
goes to a third party who youdon't even know.
And so you might want toprotect your premarital wealth, you
may want to protect yourinherited wealth, you may want to
(23:57):
protect your income.
All of this is fine as long asyou're transparent about it, because
then there's no discussionabout, well, I didn't know, I didn't
plan, I didn't work because Ithought I was being taken care of.
That's all not okay.
It's much better to Lay yourcards on the table early on and deal
with it up front.
(24:18):
You need to know what you'redealing with for sure.
Yeah, a lack of knowledge isvery dangerous.
Exactly.
Now you have considerationstoo for women who are in business,
entrepreneurs, they have aspecial set of circumstances too,
don't they, in terms of a divorce?
So women who are in business,as anyone else who's in business
(24:39):
and going through a divorce,they're going to have their business
valued.
And it's super important tounderstand that if you are building
your business during themarriage, that is a marital asset
that is going to be subject inNew York to equitable distribution.
And what I mean by that isthat usually there is a valuation
(24:59):
of the business and it is asof a certain date, usually the date
of the commencement of theaction for divorce, but sometimes
later.
And bottom line is there's anumber put on it and then there's
a percentage that is allocatedessentially that you're going to
have to pay a lump sum or overtime, a certain percentage to your
(25:20):
spouse.
And that lump sum or thatpercentage depends upon what contributions,
direct or indirect, yourspouse has made to you growing your
business during the marriage.
So perhaps your spouse hasbeen a stay at home parent and that
has allowed you to go to yourbusiness every day and not have to
worry about childcare or worryabout who's going to be making the
(25:42):
dinners or any of those kindsof things.
They show up at the parentteacher conferences, they show up
at the doctor's appointments,they allow you to focus on your business.
That is a contribution.
Perhaps you're able to traveland meet with clients or other people
that are important to your business.
Again, a contribution, it's anindirect contribution.
(26:02):
If your spouse works in thebusiness, that is a much more direct
contribution and thepercentage will likely be increased
because of that work in the business.
So it is important tounderstand that there will be some
sort of a payout, usually foryour business asset.
Perhaps you started yourbusiness before the marriage, which
is also important and thebusiness has appreciated during the
(26:25):
marriage.
Well, that appreciation willbe subject to equitable distribution.
So there will be some sort ofevaluation done for the business
as of the date of themarriage, it'll go back in time and
there will be a differentvaluation done for the calculation
of the appreciation thatoccurred during the marriage.
And again, there will be somesort of percentage tied to that appreciation
(26:49):
for the non titled spouse,meaning the person who does not own
the business.
So there are a lot ofconsiderations here.
And if things are correctly,your business could end up upside
down or heavily in debt justto pay whatever you're supposed to
pay to the other spouse.
Yes.
Because if your business isyour biggest asset, if you think
(27:09):
about it, if your business isyour biggest asset and you don't
have a lot of liquidity inother assets, you really could be
upside down here.
Because.
And look, people who have thatsituation are very, very frightened
of that situation becauseessentially they feel that they are
only getting the thing thatmakes them go to their business every
(27:30):
day and earn money to pay, youknow, for, for support for their
spouse because they are payingout for the business that they have
to go to to support the other spouse.
And there is maybe no otherliquidity from any other place.
So you really do need to planall of this out.
And again, I stress this ideaof a prenup is so helpful because
(27:52):
it can actually keep andmaintain your business for yourself.
So then it wouldn't beconsidered the matrimonial estate,
correct?
That's correct.
It will be considered yourseparate property if the prenup sets
forth that your business isyour separate property.
Okay.
Stay tuned for more of WomenRoad warriors coming up.
(28:18):
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
I have one question for you.
Do you want to stop worryingabout the irs?
If the answer is yes, thenlook no further.
I've been around for years.
I've helped countless peopleacross the country, and my success
rate speaks for itself.
So now you know where to findgood, honest help with your tax problems.
What are you waiting for?
If you owe more than $10,000to the IRS or haven't filed in years,
(28:39):
call me now at 888-557-4020 orgo to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free
consultation and get your life back.
Industry Movement TruckingMoves America Forward is telling
the story of the industry.
Our safety champions, thewomen of trucking, independent contractors,
the next generation oftruckers, and more.
(29:00):
Help us promote the best ofour industry.
Share your story and what youlove about trucking.
Share images of a momentyou're proud of and join us on social
media.
Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
back to Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kevin.
(29:27):
If you're a woman consideringdivorce, there's a lot to think about
before you take that first step.
It's emotional complex and caninvolve serious financial and custody
battles.
Too many women wait too long,don't fully understand their finances
or make the mistake ofcriticizing the other parent in front
of the kids.
And here's something Criticalyour attorney matters.
(29:50):
Interview them.
Ask them about their game planand experience.
You need to know that personhas your back.
Because if you can't trustyour attorney, who can you trust?
Lisa Zeiderman, a topmatrimonial and family law attorney
and certified financialdivorce analyst with Miller Zeiderman
in New York, helps women,especially business owners, avoid
costly mistakes and makesmart, informed decisions.
(30:13):
She's nationally published inmajor trade publications and legal
journals and is sharing whatyou need to know.
In our previous segment, wewere discussing a lot of the financial
considerations you have tothink about not only in divorce,
but in matrimony.
I could see where this couldget really messy.
And I was gonna say we'rereally ugly.
Oh, yeah.
(30:34):
Oh, my goodness.
And especially if you starteda business, there's some emotional
attachment to that, too.
I mean, you feel like you'rebeing attacked by this life partner
when they're trying to get achunk of that.
Yes, that.
That is a hundred percent true.
You do feel like you're being attacked.
And I think that the importantthing to understand is, in New York,
(30:56):
that marriage is a financial partnership.
So while, you know, you.
You asked me earlier aboutthis idea of prenups and that people
are being pitted against each other.
Well, they're not really beingpitted against each other.
The reality of gettingmarried, the difference between getting
married and just livingtogether is the fact that you are
(31:17):
now, under New York law,entering into a financial partnership.
And I think people need tounderstand that because there are
certain rules and laws that goalong with that entry into a financial
relationship, just like anyother relationship.
So, yes, it is filled withlove and all of those warm and fuzzy
(31:38):
things, but the reality isthat there are laws protect each
of you.
And so you need to make surethat you have considered those laws
and considered what theramifications are in terms of marriage
and your financial situation.
And this can vary from stateto state, correct?
Absolutely, absolutely.
(31:59):
Like, for example, Californiais a community property state.
It's very different than New York.
New York is an equitabledistribution state where we look
at what each party'scontribution, either direct or indirect,
is.
California is much more, Ithink, straightforward in terms of
what the expectation is andthat most things are divided on a
(32:20):
50, 50 type of basis.
So they're very different fromeach other.
So somebody consideringdivorce, they need to do a little
bit of homework on some ofthis, shouldn't they?
And ideally maybe do theirhomework before they get married?
Exactly.
They should be doing theirhomework before they get married.
Already planning the divorcebefore you say I do.
Well, no, you know, you'replanning, okay, for, you're, you're
(32:44):
really planning for what willhappen through your lifetime.
Right.
And then after your death.
And it really can protect both people.
And I really mean this.
I, I don't think if you lookat a prenup as something that is
bad for one or, and good forthe other.
Well, that's not really theway that I look at that.
(33:05):
That I look at it as this isyour place and your time to negotiate
it.
It's also your place and yourtime to understand what you need
to do for yourself during the marriage.
So, for example, the stay athome mom who comes to me, who 25
or 30 years after they've beena stay at home mom, and Maybe they
get 50% of the assets becausethere's no prenup.
(33:27):
But what happens to them interms of support?
Their husband may be making a,a lot of money, I mean, sometimes
millions.
Right.
And they have been at a stayat home.
And what are they going to earn?
Well, they're not going toearn anywhere near likely after 25
or 30 years of being outsideof a workforce, anywhere near their
spouse, because they havenever been on that trajectory in
(33:49):
terms of employment.
And wouldn't it have beenbetter for those women to know what
was ahead of them, thatthey're not going to be taken care
of for the rest of theirlives, that they needed to build
a career, that perhaps stayingat home, while very fulfilling in
a lot of ways, didn't protect them?
And so wouldn't it have beenbetter for them to know that up front
(34:11):
than to find it out in acourtroom years and years later that,
oh, you know, after a 30 yearmarriage, maybe I'm only getting,
you know, 10 years ofmaintenance, spousal support.
Maybe I'm not getting anywherenear what my lifestyle was.
Is that the time that theyshould find this out?
No, it's not.
Oh, no, not at all yet.
(34:33):
Oh, that's a recipe for disaster.
And that's how people end upin, in terrible situations.
You know, they get 10 years ofworth of support.
What do they do with the restof their lives?
And can they start over?
Depending on how long they'vebeen in the marriage, they're literally
having to figure out, okay,what do I do with the rest of my
life?
What do I want to be when Igrow up?
(34:53):
What kind of career could I start?
I mean, wow, that's a tough one.
Exactly.
Now you have a financialchecklist that you recommend when
somebody's Looking intodivorce, what are some of the things
that people should consider sothey need to look at?
They need to actually collectas many financial documents as they
can, right?
(35:14):
So last five years of taxreturns, any documentation in terms
of their separate property claims.
So, for example, you came intothe marriage with a certain amount
of assets.
You should actually go backand see if you can trace and track
those assets.
Account statements, copies ofall the account statements that you
(35:34):
can get your hands onto,whether it be bank accounts, investment
accounts, retirement accounts,for both you and your spouse.
All of those are really important.
Credit card statements, anycredit card statements that you can
find.
You know, years ago, I had aclient, and I always talk about her.
She literally would hand usthese little breadcrumbs.
(35:55):
They would be in these littleripped pieces of paper because she
would pull them out of thegarbage, literally out of the garbage.
And they were clues as towhere assets were.
And we found millions ofdollars worth of assets because she
actually saved these littlepieces of paper with account numbers
or phone numbers or, you know,clues as to who and where monies
(36:20):
were located.
And when we went to do thediscovery, I'll never forget, actually
I was doing a deposition ofthe husband, and I said something
like, well, there's nothing onyour net worth statement.
You've basically put nothingon your net worth statement to tell
us what your finances are.
It's completely blank.
And I said, how are we to knowwhat your finances are?
And he said something like,well, you'll just do what you're
(36:42):
doing.
You'll keep subpoenaing and looking.
And that is what we had to doduring the entire case.
Now, interestingly, because hewouldn't turn over information, there
was a negative inferenceactually posed on him by the court.
And so she ended up gettingmuch more of the assets that we did
find, which is the correctthing to do.
But I will tell you that youshould certainly, for your meeting
(37:05):
with an attorney, find as muchas you can in terms of these financial
statements.
Even if it's one statementthat you happen to find for an American
Express account, it's thestart of something, because somebody
paid American Express and thathad an account that was paid, that
it was paid from.
And that's the beginning ofthe trail.
Financial statements.
(37:25):
If your spouse is givingfinancial statements to banks, that's
important.
If you've applied for amortgage, those financial statements
are really important becausethey actually will tell us actually
how much an asset your spousebelieves that they have.
It's important.
What I'm hearing here, forwomen to really be informed when
they're in a marriage.
Not knowing the financialdata, that's like not knowing if
(37:49):
you have a roof over yourhouse that's got a leak.
I mean, it's just not sustainable.
And of course, people aregoing to do what they're going to
do.
But would you say that women,when they're in a marriage, should
really insist on the transparency?
Yes, I think everybody shouldbe insisting on the transparency.
Unless your deal is different.
Right?
Unless your deal is different.
(38:09):
I think everybody should beinsisting on transparency.
Right.
So when I say that unless youhave a prenup that says everything
he earns, he earns, everythingshe earns, she earns, everything
they earn, they earn.
Right.
The bottom line is, is thatyou really want to insist on transparency
if that is your deal.
And.
And I think everybody hastheir own relationship.
(38:31):
Look, there are alsosituations where we see in marriages
that somebody is utilizing thejoint account all the time, and yet
they have their own separate account.
Everything is joint except forthe own.
Their own separate accountthat they have decided that they're
keeping.
So one spouse is puttingeverything into the joint accounts,
everything into accounts thatare for the family, and one spouse
(38:54):
is basically got their ownslush fund.
Well, you know, the personwith the slush fund really can't
be complaining that they don'tknow everything, because perhaps
they're creating that slushfund, which is creating a problem.
So it depends on what yourmarriage is about.
If your marriage is abouttransparency, then that's what everybody
should be is transparent.
(39:14):
If your marriage is about, youknow, keeping your assets separate,
and that is what you havedetermined is the right thing for
your family, that's great, butfrankly, it should be codified in
a document.
Yes.
And when I say a document,either a prenup or a postnup, that
makes sense.
Everybody knows what's going on.
It only makes sense if youhave a spouse who wants to control
(39:36):
and you have an abusivespouse, you can see where the transparency
would be seriously lacking.
Unfortunately, that's exactly right.
And that is a reason perhaps,to start to have a consultation with
a divorce attorney.
So what do you do if somebody.
If you want a prenup and theperson you want to marry doesn't,
is that kind of a red flag tosay, well, maybe this shouldn't go
(39:58):
through?
Yeah, I think that you have todecide for yourself whether that's
a red flag.
You know, there are certainlyplenty of people who come to us who
have decided that no matterwhat, they are going to have that
prenup and they will not getmarried without that prenup because
there is just too much interms of either premarital or inherited
(40:19):
property that they are willingto risk.
And the fact is that divorceis frequent and common, and you need
to be open to signing aprenuptial agreement.
And I'm going to also say tothe people who are asking that the
prenuptial agreement besigned, that is not something that
you present, you know, a weekbefore the marriage is supposed to
(40:41):
actually occur.
That is something that shouldbe spoken about very early on, perhaps
before the engagement, eventhat, you know, if.
If and when we get married, orif we.
If I ever get married, Icertainly will want a prenup so that
it's not a shocker to somebody.
Right.
It doesn't have to be.
If we get married.
It could be just, you know,I've always thought about, if I get
(41:03):
married, I'm going to actuallyhave a prenuptial agreement.
What are your thoughts on aprenuptial agreement?
So that, you know, going in,whether this is a consideration for
somebody or whether they'regoing to say, you know, you want
to.
If.
If you want a prenup, I'm notgetting married.
Well, that may be the red flagthat says this is not the right situation
for me.
If there's too much, frankly,in terms of risk of finances.
(41:26):
Sure, yeah.
Because you have to have moneyto survive.
You know, that's kind of the reality.
People don't live out on theplains in a log cabin somewhere.
So money is definitelysomething that is part of your security.
And if you want to raisechildren and all of that, you want
security for them, you have tobe able to pay to pay the bills.
(41:48):
Now, you also haveconsiderations that you recommend
people consider if they planon marrying again.
So that goes back to if theyplan on marrying again.
They need to make sure thatthey are protecting the property
that they just probably fought for.
Right.
So.
Right.
Okay.
(42:09):
And they also need to considerthe age where they are and that they
might already have a spousalsupport situation where they're supporting
somebody.
They may have child support obligations.
These are all super important considerations.
And I hate to say it, becauseI sound like a broken record, but
they are reasons for a prenupbecause you do not want to be paying
(42:32):
spousal support your entire lifetime.
That is not really the object here.
And so if you're gettingmarried again, if this is a second
marriage for you, a prenupseems like the most logical thing
to do because you may haveassets that you want to protect.
The other person may haveassets that they want to protect.
You may also have committedcertain things in your first agreement,
(42:54):
your divorce agreement, thathave to be taken into consideration,
obligations that you may have.
It may be unfair, for example,that the other person, the person
that you're marrying has tomake payments for these obligations.
And so these are absolutelyall discussions that should be had.
Makes total sense.
(43:14):
Well, you know, when you thinkabout it, marriage is a, it's a legal
contract.
When you do anything else inlife, you have to have the transparency
you need to have the legal documentation.
It's not pleasant.
But to have all of that rightout in front, it just simplifies
things so much and it's necessary.
I think people don't want tothink about, gee, there could be
(43:37):
a divorce.
We don't want to think aboutthose things, just like we don't
want to think about peopledying either.
But that's where you have tohave the documents in place so that
people are protected.
Exactly.
I think it's having the eyesto see and the ears to hear what
really is going on, you know,to raise your internal antenna, I
(43:58):
guess, to say, and protect yourself.
Be smart about it.
Don't go in, you know, withthe horse blinders on and thinking,
oh, this is all rosy and peachy.
Reality is reality.
Life is life.
Things happen.
Right.
People change, situations change.
And I think by going insmarter is going to be benefit yourself
(44:21):
down the road, you know, not,not preventing yourself from, from
what could be, like you saidearlier, Shelley, a disastrous situation.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Look, you know, we're grownups, right?
Everybody's a grownup who'sgoing to be getting married.
And we need to think like grownups.
And adults need to makecertain decisions and they need to
(44:44):
make provisions for theirfuture and for the future of their
loved ones.
And so they need to act likeadults and they need to treat this
very seriously.
This is a serious relationshippartnership that you are entering
into.
Absolutely.
So for our listeners who arenot in New York State, where do they
(45:08):
get information on all of this?
I mean, everybody has theirown situation financially and everything
else.
Is there a good resource maybeon the Internet?
So I think that you shouldlook at.
Well, certainly for New YorkState, you can look at my blog, which
is Lisa zeiderman.com Butthere are, in your state, wherever
your listener is, there willbe other blogs on other attorneys
(45:32):
sites that they can start to read.
There are certainly placessuch as the Financial Advisor magazine
that they can look at there are.
There is a great source, frankly.
I am chair of the board of anorganization known as Savvy Ladies.
Savvy Ladies is a non forprofit organization, 501C3 that has
(45:55):
a financial helpline wherewomen can call in free of charge,
be paired with a financialprofessional one on one@savvyladies.org
s a v v y l a d I e s.org andthere is an app that you could also
download for Savvy Ladieswhere the financial professional
(46:16):
and you will be connectedthrough this app and they will take
your question once you'vesigned in and done all the paperwork
so that you can actually askyour financial questions and get
your financial answers.
Excellent.
How do people reach out toyou, Lisa?
So they could contact methrough my blog, Lisa Zeiderman like
(46:38):
my name and they there is acontact form there which will go
straight to my email.
They can email me directly atlzw-law.com or they can call at 914.455.1000.
So basically anybody withquestions can just reach out.
(46:59):
You are a wealth of knowledgeand I want to commend you for educating
women especially.
Yeah, no kidding.
So important.
You know, these are topicspeople don't want to talk about,
but if they listen at least toa podcast, perhaps they're going
to be more empowered to makethe right decision.
Well, and I appreciate that.
I think that it's reallyimportant that they listen to the
(47:22):
podcast that they, you know,as I said, they can go on, for example,
the Savvy Ladies blog.
Also there's informationthat's a nationwide organization
and they should speak to theirfriends and certainly therapists
and there's a wealth ofknowledge of information out there
and you just need to belooking and reading and making sure
(47:45):
that you are doing and makingyourself financially healthy.
I totally agree.
And knowledge that gives youempowerment and you're not going
to be as desperate.
I mean, you don't want to dothings out of desperation.
You need to be informed whenyou're going through this process.
And maybe it's also going tobring more women forward.
If they're in an abusiverelationship, they've got this knowledge,
(48:07):
they're going to have thecourage to finally file for that
divorce.
That's 100% true, without a doubt.
Thank you, Lisa.
This has been super informative.
Well, I really appreciate it.
I really appreciate both ofyou and you asked such great questions.
So I hope that it's helpful toyour listeners and it should be because
they were really greatquestions that you asked.
(48:30):
Well, thank you, Lisa.
Yes.
And I learned something.
I know that I went through adivorce years ago when I was very
young.
It got messy.
I mean, we fought over custodyof a cat.
Oh, my goodness.
It was ridiculous.
And I got custody, by the way.
I have no doubt about that.
It's interesting that you say that.
I'm just going to add.
You know, what's interestingabout that right now is that there
(48:54):
is now a best intereststandard that is used for custody
of animals.
Animals.
So while they are stillconsidered property, they also have
a much more.
A different standard that they.
That is being utilized todivide animals.
Interesting.
Wow.
Okay.
Wow.
Yeah.
Actually, I used somethinglike that tactic when I was talking
(49:17):
to the mediator.
We had a mediator because wewere so young and stuff.
We didn't have a bunch of acids.
And I basically made it clearthat the cat didn't.
Didn't like my ex and had peedin his tennis shoes on top of it.
And of course, no, if that's not.
Proof, I don't know what is.
Right.
Right.
So thank you, Lisa.
This has been super helpful.
I really appreciate you beingon our show.
(49:38):
Thank you so much and thankyou for having me.
Thank you.
Thank you.
We hope you've enjoyed thislatest episode.
And if you want to hear moreepisodes of Women Road warriors or
learn more about our show, besure to check out womenroadwarriors.com
and please follow us on social media.
And don't forget to subscribeto our podcast on our website.
(49:59):
We also have a selection ofpodcasts just for women.
They're a series of podcastsfrom different podcasters.
So if you're in the mood forwomen's podcasts, just click the
Power network tab onwomenroadwarriors.com youm'll have
a variety of shows to listento anytime you want to.
Podcasts Made for Women.
Women Road warriors is on allthe major podcast channels like Apple,
(50:21):
Spotify, Amazon, Audible,YouTube and others.
Check us out and please followus wherever you listen to podcasts.
Thanks for listening.
You've been listening to WomenRoad warriors with Shelly Johnson
and Kathy Tucaro.
If you want to be a guest onthe show or have topic or feedback,
(50:43):
email us@sjohnsonomenroadwarriors.com.
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