March 25, 2025 • 55 mins
Dr. Christine Horner's relentless advocacy for women's rights in healthcare has fundamentally transformed the landscape of breast reconstruction following mastectomy in the United States. Until the late 1990s, many insurance companies denied coverage for such essential procedures, leaving countless women to bear the financial burden or suffer the psychological scars of radical surgery. Dr. Horner's pivotal role in championing legislation culminated in the passage of the Women's Health and Cancer Rights Act of 1998, a landmark federal law mandating insurance coverage for breast reconstruction across all states. Her five-year crusade not only resulted in laws enacted in thirty-five states but also underscored the critical need for equitable healthcare for women battling breast cancer. In this episode, Shelley Johnson and Kathy Tuccaro delve into Dr. Horner's extraordinary journey, her insights into breast cancer prevention through natural medicine and thermography, and her commitment to empowering women through education and advocacy.
https://women-road-warriors.captivate.fm
https://womenroadwarriors.com/
https://womenspowernetwork.net
women empowerment, breast cancer awareness, breast reconstruction, women's health advocacy, Dr. Christine Horner, Women's Health and Cancer Rights Act, thermal imaging technology, holistic health approaches, Ayurvedic medicine, prevention of breast cancer, nutrition and breast health, stress reduction techniques, women's health education, alternative medicine, health and wellness podcasts, women's support systems, empowering women in healthcare, chronic disease prevention, natural health solutions, Women Road Warriors, Shelley M. Johnson, Shelley Johnson, Kathy Tuccaro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
This is Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
From the corporate office tothe cab of a truck, they're here
to inspire and empower womenin all professions.
So gear down, sit back and enjoy.
(00:23):
Welcome.
We're an award winning showdinner dedicated to empowering women
in every profession throughinspiring stories and expert insights.
No topics off limits on ourshow, we power women on the road
to success with expert andcelebrity interviews and information
you need.
I'm Shelly and this is Kathy.
(00:44):
Did you know that not allinsurance companies paid for breast
reconstruction after amastectomy in the United States until
the late 1990s?
Not everyone knows that, butthey should.
Not all states requiredinsurance companies to do this.
Women who had to undergoradical surgery to win their fight
against breast cancer wereoften permanently scarred unless
(01:06):
they paid out of their own pocket.
That changed after legislationwas passed that was spearheaded by
Dr.
Christine Horner.
Her five year crusade led tothe passage of laws in 35 states
and a federal law called theWomen's Health and Cancer Rights
act of 1998.
That was the first lawCongress ever passed that required
insurance companies to pay fora specific surgical procedure.
(01:29):
Dr.
Horner even took her campaignto the White House where she met
with President Clinton andHillary Clinton.
Dr.
Horner mounted this charge forwomen and won after an insurance
company refused to pay for oneof her patients breast reconstructions.
Dr.
Horner is one of our modernday heroes.
She's a board certified andnationally recognized surgeon, author,
expert in natural medicine,and relentless champion for women's
(01:53):
health.
She wrote the book Waking thewarrior goddess.
Dr.
Christine Horner's program toprotect against and fight breast
cancer.
Dr.
Horner is a popular radio andTV program guest.
She's appeared on numerousnational shows including the Oprah
Winfrey Show, NBC Nightly Newswith Tom Brokaw, Fox and Friends,
and CNN.
She was also interviewed by Dr.
(02:14):
Oz and Dr.
Mercola.
We have the honor of featuring Dr.
Horner on the show with us today.
Welcome, Dr.
Horner.
Thank you for being with us.
Thank you.
Wow.
Oh my goodness.
First of all, Dr.
Horner, I want to thank youfor being such a powerful advocate
and champion for women.
You've improved the lives forso many.
(02:35):
It's just wonderful.
Well, it was an atrocity, Ihave to say.
You know, I was a plasticsurgeon and you know, and the insurance
companies suddenly stoppedpaying for breast reconstruction.
I think that was like 1993,you know, it was really shocking.
And then just to, you know,experience the horrors that these
(02:58):
women had, you know, withtheir insurance Companies where they,
the insurance companies justpulled all sorts of things, you know,
where they got them scheduledand then they, the day or two before
surgery, they'd say, oh,sorry, we changed our minds.
And you know, it was, yeah, itwas just terrible.
Um, so I just thought, youknow, when I got a letter from an
(03:19):
insurance company that saidthat they weren't going to pay for
breast Reconstruction on my 32year old patient because it was on
an organ with no function, Iwas just like, that's what they said.
We're not going to pay for itbecause it's on an organ with no
function.
I thought, well, they didn'tknow their biology, did they?
(03:39):
Or anything about their anatomy.
Oh, my Lord.
And I just thought, hey, I'msure your wife is really happy about.
Yeah.
But anyway, yeah, so I justgot so mad.
I was just like, you know,you're going to pay and everybody's
going to pay.
So, yeah, I, I ended uporganizing, you know, the national
campaign to pass legislationto make it mandatory that insurance
(04:00):
companies pay for breastreconstruction after mastectomy.
And it was right after theClinton health care, you know, kind
of effort they did failed.
And so they said, oh,Washington's not going to hear anything.
You're going to have to do itin the states.
And I was like, oh, my go,it's not going to do it 50 times.
You know, the worst case scenario.
(04:22):
But, you know, we ended upgetting 35 state laws passed.
And then I found a loopholelaw where it's called the Employees
Retirement Income securities Act.
And so basically within that,it exempts, you know, virtually everyone
from state laws.
So, like, even though you passstate laws, you're really not covering
(04:45):
anybody.
So then I was just like, allright, that's it, you know, like,
I'm to meet President Clinton.
And so, you know, I wanted togo straight to the top instead of
working from the bottom up.
So I did this thing whereevery person I met for two, only
two weeks, every person I met,I was like, do you know how I can
(05:06):
meet President Clinton?
Do you know how I can meetPresident Clinton?
And so within two weeks, I metsomeone who knew someone on the Federal
Trade Commission and had lunchwith them.
And like five days later, Iwas in Washington, D.C.
talking to President Clinton.
Wow.
Bravo.
That's spectacular.
And I got to pay $10,000 forthe opportunity.
(05:28):
Yeah, because, you know, ourgovernment's all bought and paid
for, so it was, it was reallyan education.
But anyway, yeah, I talkedwith him and it ended up, it was
like A five year campaign and,and just doing tons and tons and
tons of kind of grassrootsefforts and, and lobbying.
And so, you know, sadly, thisis another thing with our government.
(05:51):
The bill was never heard incommittee and it's all about who
owes who a favor.
Right.
And so I had, works withSenator Ted Kennedy, you know, sponsored
the bill and then I had AnnaEshu from California as a representative
sponsoring the bill.
(06:13):
And then so that was theDemocratic side.
So I said that that was theleft breast.
And then the Republicans hadtheir own bill.
So it's the right breast.
And so anyway, one of thesponsors of the Republican bill was
running for reelection and hehad this very complex bill that had
lots of different things in it.
(06:34):
And he said, I need somethingto run on.
And they were like, well, youcan't have everything.
Pick one thing.
And he said, all right, I pickbreast reconstruction.
And so it was tacked onto thebudget bill and the last day of Congress.
I mean, it kind of reads likea novel.
But I got passed.
I say there was divine intervention.
(06:54):
Now it is a federal law thatall women have breast reconstruction
available to them.
Every insurance company has tocover it.
And we included all sorts ofthings in it, such as doing cemetery
operations.
So the two sides match with a concept.
But.
Yeah, so now that's a.
Yeah.
(07:14):
So insurance companieswouldn't pay for those operations.
They wanted somebody to havelopsided breasts.
You don't want to pay for anything.
Oh my goodness.
You know, Dr.
Horner, you and I were talkingbefore the show.
You had said that even thoughinsurance companies didn't want to
pay for breast reconstruction,they would pay for penile implants.
(07:36):
Am I correct?
Yeah, you are correct.
So when I this the, I mean,the very first case that I had was
medic, a Medicaid, you know, patient.
So that's like, you know,basically a physician who's a particularly
a surgeon.
When you have a Medicaidpatient, your overhead expenses for
(07:59):
that person exceeds whatyou're paid.
You know, so it's kind of likeyou're, you know, you're doing a
good deed, contributing.
But anyway, you know, my firstpatient that got denied was in Indiana.
I was, you know, working inCincinnati, Ohio.
So I had offices in Kentucky,Ohio and Indiana because they all
(08:20):
kind of come together in alittle corner by the Ohio River.
But anyway, it was an IndianaMedicaid patient.
And so, you know, I keptreading this letter I got and I thought,
you know what, like they saidI wasn't medically indicated or something.
And so, you know, I wrote himback and I said, hey, you know, like,
(08:42):
if you pay for, you know,like, penile reconstruction, but
you won't pay for breastreconstruction, that's a very sexist
policy.
So he writes me back and he,you know, young lady, you're completely
out of line.
You know, the lady.
Oh, my God.
Yeah, of course, of course.
So I ended up, you know, with.
With the Medicaid government system.
(09:03):
There was a.
A state kind of like health care.
Like, it was like, you know,getting lawyers involved in everything
where I had to present, youknow, to them.
And so I just.
I came with, you know, tonsand tons of studies that showed that
(09:23):
women who, you know, had someform of reconstruction actually did
a whole lot better, you know,psychologically, emotionally, and
even physically.
And the woman who was thejudge, that was like a state court
hearing.
So the judge was a woman.
So she ruled in my favor.
And as I was leaving, one ofthe assistants comes running after
(09:47):
me, and she said, I'm so gladyou won, because not only does Medicaid,
you know, pay for penilereconstruction, but the number one
case that they paid for, youknow, back then, that was before
Viagra, back in the early1990s, she said, was penile implants.
You know, those were.
That was the number one casethey paid for.
(10:09):
You know, isn't this anexample of patriarchy?
You know, that's just disgusting.
Yep.
And, you know, the averageperson doesn't know all of this.
People need to be educated.
Kathy, I had a quick question.
You're in Canada, and you'refrom Canada.
Do you know what the policy ison breast reconstruction and reimbursement
(10:30):
there after a mastectomy?
I'm sorry, I don't.
Okay, well, it's allowed.
I had, you know, some friendswhen I was working as a plastic surgeon.
At least it was, you know, that.
That worked in Canada, so itwas allowed.
But, you know, they did.
They did experimental thingshere in the United States to begin
with because, you know, wewere having, you know, terrible budget
(10:52):
issues, you know, with.
With our health care.
And so, you know, because theClinton health care, you know, stuff
didn't go through, then they.
That they wanted to try thingsexperimentally in the States.
And so Washington and Oregonkind of took the lead.
And so, you know, in.
(11:12):
I think it was in Washington,they came up with this idea that
they would just list everykind of surgical procedure that a
person can have, and then theyjust arbitrarily, like, drew this
line, and everything above theline was paid for and everything
below the line was not.
So reconstruction, obstructionof every single body part, including,
(11:36):
you know, prosthetic earsthat, you know, have no function
or the prosthetic eye thatcan't see.
All of those were covered.
And the only body part for,you know, reconstruction that wasn't
covered that was below thatline was that of the female breast.
Yeah.
Yep.
Wow.
Yeah.
(11:57):
No words.
Yeah.
Obviously there weren't anywomen that had any kind of input
into this.
Well, you know, I guess notuntil I came along.
Yeah.
And bravo.
What you've done istremendous, and you need to be honored
for all of your hard workbecause you've made such a difference
(12:19):
in women's lives.
It's just astounding.
Stay tuned for more of WomenRoad warriors coming up.
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
I have one question for you.
Do you want to stop worryingabout the irs?
If the answer is yes, thenlook no further.
(12:40):
I've been around for years.
I've helped countless peopleacross the country, and my success
rate speaks for itself.
So now you know where to findgood, honest help with your tax problems.
What are you waiting for?
If you owe more than $10,000,the IRS or haven't filed in years,
call me now at 888-557-4020 orgo to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free
consultation and get your life back.
(13:03):
Industry Movement TruckingMoves America Forward is telling
the story of the industry.
Our safety champions, thewomen of trucking, independent contractors,
the next generation oftruckers, and more.
Help us promote the best ofour industry.
Share your story and what youlove about trucking.
Share images of a momentyou're proud of and join us on social
(13:24):
media.
Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
back to Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
If you're enjoying thisinformative episode of Women Road
(13:44):
Warriors, I wanted to mentionKathy and I explore all kinds of
topics that will power you onthe road to success.
We feature a lot of expert interviews.
Plus we feature celebritiesand women who've been trailblazers.
Please check out ourpodcast@womenroadwarriors.com and
click on our episodes page.
We're also available whereveryou listen to podcasts on all the
(14:05):
major podcast channels likeSpotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon,
Music, Audible, you name it.
Check us out and bookmark our podcast.
Also, don't forget to followus on social media.
We're on Twitter, Facebook,Instagram, Pinterest, LinkedIn, YouTube,
and other sites and tellothers about us.
We want to help as Many womenas possible.
(14:25):
It wasn't until 1998 thatinsurance companies across the United
States were mandated to payfor breast reconstruction after a
woman underwent a mastectomy.
Many companies refused becausethey said the breasts after reconstruction
lacked any function.
This was done at the same timethat they covered penile reconstructions
and penile implants.
(14:47):
This changed dramaticallyafter Dr.
Christine Horner launched amassive campaign to change this patriarchal
and discriminatory practicethat hurt women.
She was instrumental ingetting laws changed in 35 states.
Her tireless work led to thepassage of the women's health and
cancer Rights act of 1998,mandating coverage for breast reconstructions
(15:07):
in all 50 states.
Dr.
Horner has been a fierceadvocate and champion for women's
health.
She's a board certified andnationally recognized surgeon, author
and expert in natural medicine.
She wrote the book waking thewarrior goddess.
Dr.
Christine Horner's program toprotect against and fight breast
Cancer.
She's a wealth of informationand she's doing so many things.
(15:29):
And now you're working toeducate women about breast cancer
prevention.
You do so many things in that area.
Did you want to talk aboutsome of that?
Because you have some majorinsight that I don't think a lot
of women are told about bytheir conventional doctor.
Yeah.
Huh.
Well, you know, so right, right.
(15:51):
At the same time, when I wasworking on the breast reconstruction
legislation, I startednoticing that my patients were getting
younger and younger and younger.
The ones that were, you know,coming in with breast cancer and
requiring, you know, breast reconstruction.
And finally I had women comingin my door that were in their twenties.
(16:13):
And I mean that, I mean thatjust like, I was devastated, you
know, when that started happening.
And I just thought, oh my God.
I mean, clearly something isseriously wrong.
And, and you know, we knowfrom epidemiological studies, so
these are like studies of, youknow, groups of people that people
who are born in, at least thisused to be before our terrible western,
(16:38):
you know, culture is likecontaminated the rest of the world.
But at one time, you know,Asian populations had the lowest,
you know, incidence of breast cancer.
And, and so they found that ifan Asian woman moved to the United
States and adopt our Americandiet and lifestyle within one generation,
her risk would match that ofan American woman.
(17:01):
So it's like, well, duh, youknow, what are they doing or not
doing that we're, we're doingor not doing this, Making such a
big differ.
And so, you know, this again,I mean, it's time flies.
Boy, you know, it's been 30years right.
But I, I decided to startresearching and kind of going through
the medical research to find,you know, what, if anything, women
(17:22):
could do to help to lower therisk of breast cancer.
Because, you know, we werenever taught anything.
They just said, oh, get magrams, you know, the best thing a
woman can do and try to catchit early.
And that's the way we're goingto save lives.
Well, my mom actually.
Side story.
So my mom got breast cancer.
And so she did great from herfirst breast cancer.
(17:45):
Well, then she ended upgetting another breast cancer on
her opposite breast years later.
So, as you can imagine, theywere following her very carefully.
She did everything Westernmedicine told her to do, had all
her mammograms, everything.
They caught it early.
And then five years afterthat, she suddenly said, you know,
(18:06):
I think something's wrong withmy leg.
I think I pulled a muscle.
And I saw her and I thought,oh, my God, that's not what that
is.
So it turned out that she hadmetastatic breast cancer from stage
one disease.
The initial became metastaticbreast cancer to her femur, leg bone.
And so she, she was 75 and shedecided that she didn't want to go
(18:30):
through any horrible treatment.
She said, I'm not going tohave, you know, chemo, I'm not going
to do radiation, I'm not goingto do it.
So then she ended up ninemonths later.
So that was another thing thatreally rocked my world because this
was all at the same time, thiswas happening where I was just like,
you know, my mom dideverything Western medicine told
her to do and she's dead.
(18:50):
You know, like this desperate work.
And.
And so it's just like, okay,what can women do?
So anyway, I did thisliterature search and so as soon
as I started looking, I mean,I found this was back in the early
1990s, I found thousands ofstudies showing exactly why we have
a breast cancer epidemic andprostate cancer and colon cancer
(19:12):
and ill health in general.
And.
And it's all stems from ourhorrible American diet lifestyle.
I mean, duh.
I mean, the criminal thing is too.
It's like, so here I wentthrough medical school and board
certified in general surgeryand plastic surgery.
So I had one of the longestmedical trainings you could have.
I did not have a single coursein nutrition ever.
(19:36):
Wow.
You know, it's interesting.
A lot of doctors don't.
Well, more do now, thank God,but it's not universal.
And, you know, actually when Imet with President Clinton the first
time, I, you know, flew backto Cincinnati.
And so the television stationsent a reporter, television news
(19:56):
anchor out to interview meabout it.
And it turned out that he'dbeen a teacher of transcendental
medicine meditation for about30 years.
And so he's like, you reallyneed to learn how to do transcendental
meditation.
I'm like, great, fine.
So I, I did that.
And then he said, well, youknow, if you want to know more, it's
like, well, there.
It comes from this system ofmedicine called Ayurveda, which I'd
(20:18):
never heard of, I'membarrassed to say at the time.
And so he's, you know, he's,he sent me to this, you know, spa
in Fairfield, Iowa to do adetoxification program with them
called Panchakarma.
So it's actually a 5,000 yearold, the kind of detoxification,
you know, program.
And so I signed up for aboutthree days and 48 hours into it,
(20:41):
I looked in the mirror and Ilooked 10 years younger and never
felt better in my life.
And I thought, oh my God,these people know something.
So I started studying Ayurvedalike crazy.
So I'm certified in Ayurveda.
And that, that really led tome deciding to leave my surgical
practice and really focus onteaching people how to become and
(21:03):
stay healthy naturally andavoid the knife.
So, so I did, I left my, my practice.
I decided I actually startedworking in the television, local
television newscast on ABC andNBC, doing a segment on complementary
and alternative medicine.
And I just started reallyfalling in love with doing that because
(21:26):
I felt like, boy, you know, ontelevision you're really reaching,
you know, thousands of people,lots of them.
You'd never, you know,normally have, have those people
coming into your office.
And so I felt like I wasmaking a bigger impact for the world
than just, you know, doingliposuctions and breast augmentations.
And yeah, so I left my practice.
(21:47):
And then for about 20 years Iworked, you know, kind of as a media
doctor.
I've, you know, written acouple award winning books.
You mentioned the, you know,the book I wrote for, you know, breast
health.
But I also wrote a book calledRadiant Health, Ageless Beauty.
And it's about how to createhealth, which I never learned in
(22:08):
medical school, but you know,it's got a foundation in Ayurveda
as well as, you know, modern research.
But it's kind of like all thedifferent elements, you know, that
are important to be able toexperience extraordinary health and
longevity.
So yeah, for 20 years I didflew all over the country doing,
you know, televisioninterviews and radio interviews.
(22:30):
And I Had my own, you know,radio show and wrote for, you know,
articles in national magazinesand everything.
And, and then Covid hit.
So, yeah, so that was, youknow, television station shut down.
No, in studio interviews, allthe speaking engages didn't happen.
So, so I had been introducedto this technology called thermal
(22:54):
imaging.
And this, it uses an infraredcamera to take a picture basically
of the body.
So it's non, invasive,completely, you know, safe, it doesn't
use radiation and it, youknow, picking up kind of heat, you
know, patterns.
And it's a physiological test.
So it tells us how things arefunctioning in the body, but basically
(23:16):
it can be used as apreventative tool.
And it's the only, you know,kind of imaging preventative tool
that we have where it can takeimages of the body and see imbalances
before, you know, you developsomething bad.
And then you can, you know,institute, you know, various different
preventative measures to turnthings around.
(23:38):
So it's actually more accurateat an earlier stage than mammographies.
Well, you know, mammograms,mammograms, ultrasounds, MRI scans,
these are a category ofanatomical tests.
So what they're doing isthey're taking a cross section of
the human body and they'relooking at the underlying architecture.
(24:01):
The only thing that they'regoing to pick up is if you have had
a structural change to your body.
So in other words, they'reonly going to tell you about something
that you already have.
So it's half.
Yeah, so whereas thermalimaging, I mean, that's really fascinating
because we start to see thesetemperature changes that happen in
(24:27):
the body to indicate thatthere's something going on as far
as an imbalance, you know,years before somebody, you know,
develops a significant issue.
And so those are the thingsthat we can kind of pick up.
So for instance, if we'respecifically, specifically talking
about the breasts before awoman develops breast cancer, we
start to see thesephysiological changes, like I said,
(24:50):
years before somebody developsa breast cancer.
And so they're going to looklike some vascular patterns or heat
patterns or the thing wealways look for is does one side
match the other?
Because it turns out that thehuman body is extremely symmetrical
(25:11):
thermographically.
And so whenever we have anyimbalances, and this is all kind
of a phenomenon that happenswith a part of our nervous system
called the sympathetic nervous system.
And that's the one that'sinvolved in the fight or flight kind
of reactions.
But basically the nervoussystem innervates the skin and whenever
(25:33):
there's any kind of Underlyingimbalances, dysfunctions, injuries,
infections, anything like thatgoing on.
The sympathetic nervous systemcauses the overlying skin temperature
to change.
And our software programactually assigns a different color
to every temperature.
So even if we have teeny tinydifferences, it changes the color
(25:56):
with the software program andit just pops out there to let us
know that something's going on.
So we can pick up these veryearly imbalances where they're easily
reversible with simple dots.
Diet, lifestyle andnutritional supplements.
So when I identify women, forinstance, that look like they're
at an increased future riskfor developing breast cancer, we
(26:19):
can interrupt that whole process.
I definitely use my book, the,you know, Waking the Warrior Goddess
to have women educatethemselves about all the do's and
don'ts, you know, for loweringtheir risk.
And, and then we add certainkey nutritional supplements and we
get this spectacularimprovement that happens usually
within three months.
(26:39):
And so, you know, see howsomebody's breasts are restored to
health.
And again, it's the only testthat's going to show us that.
And so we have this ability tomonitor, you know, the health of
the breast as well as the restof the body, pick up these very early
imbalances when they're atreversible stages, and then interrupt
that whole process of creatinga disease.
(27:01):
This sounds like a much betterway to help women versus a mammography
or a mammogram.
You know, squishing thebreasts using radiation that actually
increases the risk of thedisease is looking for.
I mean, to me, that's thedefinition of insanity.
Yeah, well, and I thinkwhoever designed the mammogram really
(27:22):
hated his mother because whowants to slam your breast into a
vice and then crank it down?
I mean, really awful, youknow, and the machine itself, or
what, I don't know what theparts are, but it isn't shaped like
a woman's rib cage.
I mean, you're basicallypushing yourself up to a tabletop
and slamming your breasts intoa vice.
(27:44):
Yeah, yeah.
It is horrible.
And it's unnecessary becauseyou know, what the research shows
us is that, well, there's likelong term studies that have been
done on mammography followingwomen for 20 to 25 years.
And this came out maybe six,seven years ago.
And so, you know, we thoughtmammograms were the golden standard.
(28:04):
They were the be all, end all.
That's the only thing youneeded to do.
And at the end of thosestudies, what they showed was that,
you know, that mammograms werenot even remotely as good as we thought
that they were and that theyhad all sorts of problems, you know,
that we really, you know, kindof poo pooed or underestimated that
were, you know, really significant.
I mean, it's not appropriatefor women under like 40 or 50 because
(28:30):
the breast tissue when it'syounger is dense and you can't see
through it.
But it turns out that evenlike 40% of women have dense breasts
even after menopause, youknow, so there's huge populations
of women where it doesn't workvery well because of that.
Also, it doesn't work wellwhen, when women have really small
breasts or if they have verylarge breasts or if they have implants
(28:53):
in.
And so, you know, there's justa lot of, you know, categories.
So with the research lookingat combining thermal imaging, you
know, a physiological testwith an ultrasound, you know, which
is a completely harmlessanatomical test, we actually get
(29:15):
a much better evaluation ofthe breast tissue than we do, you
know, with some, with mammography.
And it can be used ineverybody, no matter what age.
I mean, both of those are safefor babies.
Oh, that speaks volumes.
Stay tuned for more of womenroad warriors coming up.
(29:39):
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
I have one question for you.
Do you want to stop worryingabout the irs?
If the answer is yes, thenlook no further.
I've been around for years.
I've helped countless peopleacross the country, and my, my success
rate speaks for itself.
So now you know where to findgood, honest help with your tax problems.
What are you waiting for?
If you owe more than $10,000to the IRS or haven't filed in years,
(30:01):
call me now at 888-557-4020 orgo to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free
consultation and get your life back.
Industry movement Truckingmoves America Forward is telling
the story of the industry.
Our safety champions, thewomen of trucking, independent contractors,
the next generation oftruckers, and more.
(30:22):
Help us promote the best ofour industry.
Share your story and what youlove about trucking.
Share images of a momentyou're proud of and join us on social
media.
Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
back to Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
(30:49):
As a nationally recognizedsurgeon who performed breast reconstructions,
Dr.
Christine Horner saw more andmore women coming in for surgery
following a mastectomy whowere in their 20s.
That sounded an alarm for herand set her on the road.
In preventive and naturalmedicine, Dr.
Horner could see something wasclearly wrong with this picture.
She decided to do research onhow women could lower their risk
(31:11):
for breast cancer.
That led her into Ayurvedicmedicine and her enrolling in a detoxification
program.
Her journey took off.
She became certified inAyurveda and left her surgical practice
to teach people how to becomeand stay healthy naturally and avoid
the knife.
She began a new segment on herlocal TV station about complementary
(31:32):
and alternative medicine.
She became a media doctor andauthority, writing a number of award
winning books.
Dr.
Horner was also introduced tothe technology of thermal imaging,
which she now promotes and offers.
It doesn't use radiation, butpicks up heat with an infrared camera
that can see imbalances beforea person develops a problem, so people
(31:53):
can enact preventive measuresto turn things around.
It's better than a mammogram,according to Dr.
Horner, which detects acondition you already have.
Plus, mammograms subject apatient to radiation.
And recent studies show thatthose tests are not the be all to
end all solution.
It's not appropriate for womenwith dense breast tissue or who are
under 40 or 50.
(32:13):
It's also not effective withwomen with very small breasts, very
large breasts, or who have implants.
Thermal imaging along withultrasound is much better, according
to Dr.
Horner.
It's safe and appropriate forpatients of all ages.
Dr.
Horner's giving us all kindsof important information that women
need to know, especially aboutthermal imaging.
(32:35):
So do insurance companiescover thermography or.
Mostly no, because it's preventative.
Yeah, so there are a fewinsurance companies that do cover
it, like in Florida and Texasand Arizona, but for the most part,
they don't.
When I do thermal imaging, Ialways give my clients the various
(32:57):
codes, you know, that they cansubmit to their insurance company.
Diagnostic codes.
Yeah, yeah.
So there's an ICD9 diagnosticand then the procedural code, the
CPT code.
So occasionally, you know,somebody can get a partial reimbursement
for the most part.
I mean, in SouthernCalifornia, I've never heard of it
(33:18):
happening, but yeah, I.
Think that there needs to be amovement to get the insurance companies
to cover this because it makesso much sense.
And, you know, they're alwaystalking about prevention, prevention,
but they aren't practicingwhat they're preaching.
Correct.
And then they'll say, get.
You know, we offerpreventative, you know, like testing
(33:41):
and stuff, including mammograms.
I'm like, well, they're not preventative.
I mean, they only tell you ifyou've got breast cancer.
You know, you're educatingwomen because, yes, Women are being
conditioned to say, okay,every year I've got to have a mammogram
if I'm past a certain age,yada yada.
Oh, and if you have densebreast tissue, you're at a higher
risk of breast cancer.
Is that true?
(34:02):
I don't know.
Yeah, there is a slightincreased risk if you have, you know,
denser breasts.
But mammograms, like I said,can't see through dense breasts at
all.
So it's a worthless test, youknow, for those women, which is actually
a significant portion of the population.
So this is, I mean, to me, youknow, combining thermal imaging with
(34:24):
ultrasounds.
Like I said, the researchshows that by doing that we get a
better evaluation and thenhaving it where it's painless, it
doesn't use radiation, you canuse it on 20 year olds, you know,
because I think it's veryimportant to start doing some kind
of preventative, you know,imaging in women that are very young
(34:45):
because I operated on women intheir 20s or I.
And this is not a comment, youknow, for women to get breast cancer
in their 30s and all.
And those women can't getmammograms, mammograms can't see
anything.
And so, you know, here we havethis, you know, really, really wonderful
tool, you know, to help us.
And, and so, you know, to meit like is, instead of waiting, having,
(35:09):
having women kind ofconditioned to be like, oh, I don't
even have to think aboutbreast cancer until I'm 50, it's
like, well then, no, that'snot true.
And actually, you know,instilling really good health habits
when you're young obviouslyhas huge benefits.
And so by using thermalimaging, we're doing this in college
campuses.
(35:30):
We're kind of introducingyoung people to this tool that can
really help them to see ifthey've got imbalances in their body
and then having conversationsabout what you can do to lower your
risk.
Of course, the thing that Ifound when I was writing my book
on, on breast cancerprevention is that everything that
(35:53):
lowers the risk of breastcancer are the same things that lower
your risk of every single, youknow, chronic disease and, and produce
good health.
So it's not like these thingsare super specific for breast cancer
is, is just like, I mean, agood diet, exercise, reducing stress,
you know, meditation, going tobed, you know, at a, before 10:00
(36:16):
at night has a huge, you know,statistical influence and, and then
relationships.
That's, that was some of themost interesting research I thought,
where we looked at, okay, allthe different factors that affect
our health from, you know,genetics and diet, smoking, all those
kinds of things.
The one thing that affects ourhealth more than anything, more than
(36:39):
diet, smoking and genetics isfeeling loved and supported.
That's the number one thingthat influences us.
So if you feel loved andsupported, I always joke about this.
You know, you can drink, youcan smoke, you're going to live to
be 100, right?
But the opposite is true whereif you are in toxic relationships,
(37:01):
it's the most toxic thing tothe human body.
It's way worse than smokingcigarettes and drinking whiskey.
Well, when you think about it,infants that don't have love and
nurture cannot survive.
That was discovered, what,back in the 1800s or a long time
ago, babies that wereneglected and not picked up and held,
(37:24):
they didn't survive.
They needed the love and nurturing.
It's not going to change as we grow.
It's an absolute innate needthat humans have.
And toxic relationships, oh,my gosh.
I mean, what it does to the body.
You're always in fight flight,aren't you?
Right.
That's right.
But, you know, it's.
It's just an interesting kindof twist to it where it's like, okay,
(37:45):
you can have a.
Let's just say that you havesuper stressful job, you know, where
you have constant stress from that.
The amount of stress that youfeel from that and the damage it
does to the body is not evenremotely in the category as if you
had relationship stress.
That's like a, A.
It's a whole different thing.
So I always say, you know,we're wired as human beings to be
(38:07):
in loving, supportive relationships.
And it's the most important thing.
The biggest, you know,influential factor is it's astounding.
So, you know, when I was asurgeon, of course I was working
ungodly hours.
And, And I mean, I probablyworked 14 hours a day.
You know, I.
And I had like one girlfriendbecause there was no time, right?
(38:29):
And I would see her like onceevery three months or something.
So when I decided to leave mypractice and then I, you know, decided
to leave Cincinnati and moveto Taos, New Mexico at that point,
too.
But from reading all thatresearch, I thought, okay, well,
I mean, I'm vegetarian since Iwas 14.
I meditate.
(38:49):
I do.
I mean, I did everything youcould possibly think up for health.
But the most importantinfluence is having loving, supportive
relationships.
You know, So I test actuallyto be slightly introverted.
So it takes me something.
But when I moved to NewMexico, I just thought, okay, this
is the most important thingfor my health.
So, like, when I went to thegym and I was in the locker room,
(39:12):
I made myself talk to everysingle woman in there so that I could,
like, quickly kind of form awhole group of, you know, girlfriends.
And so then, you know, whatI've done, you know, after that is,
like, I identify, like, thewomen that, you know, they're like
best, best friends, you know,kind of women that just every time
(39:34):
you're with them, it's justlike, you always feel better and
everything.
And so what I've done is,like, because those are my most important
relationships, I schedulethose people in my life.
So, like, I see one girlfriendevery Tuesday night.
I have another girlfriend Isee every Wednesday, I have see another
one on Friday, I have acouple, you know, So I schedule it
(39:55):
like that because otherwise,you know, you can find these wonderful
people that you love to bewith, but life gets in the way, and
you can end up going monthswithout seeing them.
And so, you know, for me, it'sjust like, okay, I'm going to schedule
that in my life.
And then, you know, I reallyhave this intention about being the
most supportive, loving friendthat I can, you know, to those people,
(40:17):
you know, too.
So it's intentional,intentional living that's so important.
Absolutely.
Wow.
You cover everything, and itmakes so much sense.
Now you're certified inAyurvedic medicine for our listeners
who don't understand that.
What is that exactly?
Yeah.
So Ayurveda, traditionalChinese medicine, and Ayurveda are
(40:41):
actually the two kind of majorholistic systems of medicine that
are still being practiced today.
So Ayurveda, Ayur means life,and Veda means knowledge.
So it literally means theknowledge of life.
I was like, how different fromWestern medicine was that?
So, so traditional Chinesemedicine and Ayurveda, you know,
(41:05):
a lot of areas where theyoverlap, But Ayurveda, of all, you
know, of all the systems, hasgot this incredible understanding
of what it is to be a humanbeing and a human body.
And so it's.
It recognizes all these kindof fundamental laws of nature, which,
if you follow them, yourbody's going to be in balance.
(41:26):
And it enhances your body'sinner healing intelligence.
If you violate those laws,like drinking, smoking, staying up
too late, lots of stress, it'sgoing to cause imbalances in the
body which will, you know,lead to disease.
So they have the mostsophisticated level of understanding,
I think, about, you know, howthe human body functions, what we
(41:49):
need to do to keep it intoBalance and how we can get it there.
They, you know, understandvarious different body constitutions
where we're not all the same.
And, and so it can't be cookbook.
And so that's an easy thing tosee where you have those really annoying,
teeny tiny skinny friends thatcan eat anything.
And then you have people thatjust, you know, like, you know, look
(42:12):
at a piece of cake and theygain weight.
So, and then lots of peoplethat react to hot spicy foods where
for another person, that's fine.
So this is reallyunderstanding, you know, the body
constitution and then doing avery specific program that matches,
you know, what your bodyconstitution is that helps to keep
you in balance, which mightthrow somebody else balance, you
(42:33):
know, depending on their, youknow, constitution.
But.
And then there's all sorts oftechniques that they have that we
call effective stress reducingtechniques because it was recognized
by a thousand years ago thatstress is a major contributor to
all the different, differentchronic diseases.
And so like Ayurveda is theoriginator of meditation, yoga.
(42:55):
Sorry, if people say, oh, Ihaven't heard of it.
It's like, oh, yes you have.
You know, they're using herbs.
They do the breathing, likepranayama breathing techniques that
helps to kind of balance the,the autonomic nervous system, the
parasympathetic andsympathetic, you know, nervous systems.
There is sound therapy, youknow, in it because we found that
(43:16):
that has this like, amazingeffect on b.
Balancing the human body.
So many, many differenttechniques that, that are all designed
to help to balance the bodythat then results in enhancing your
body's inner healing intelligence.
So it becomes very smart andit can take really, really good care
of you.
(43:37):
But if you violate those laws,then your inner healing intelligence
becomes stupid.
It can't take care of you.
You're helping your patientswith all of this.
You're incorporating all thesetechniques with complementary and
alternative medicine andteaching women how to stay healthy,
reduce their risk for breastcancer, I mean, and other chronic
diseases.
I mean, I still don't get whythis concept is so foreign in Western
(44:04):
countries.
And with the Western medicinewe treat you after the fact.
It just doesn't make sense.
Right, you're right, you're right.
You know, but I have to say,when I first started, you know, doing
this work, which was, youknow, back in the early mid, well,
mid-1990s, no one had heard of Ayurveda.
(44:25):
When I did speaking engagements.
How many people have heard of Ayurveda?
It's like no hands went up.
And now really the whole roomgoes up.
You know, the health foodstores were just kind of these mom
and pop things that werestarting organic was, you know, not
that accessible.
Ethopax then.
So the difference that I'veseen, you know, and I've been doing
(44:46):
this for 30 years now, youknow, so there's been this huge difference
as far as, you know, people'sawareness of, you know, all these
different kinds of healthythings that we could do that fall
into the category of, youknow, complementary and alternative
medicine.
It's it the, it is drasticallydifferent now than it, than it used
(45:07):
to be.
Now one of your educationaltechniques is to teach women to eat
the right foods.
What are the right foods.
I know that there are probablya lot of different options there,
but maybe some quick takeawaysfor our listeners.
Yeah, so always, you know, wetry to go for some, something that's
organically grown.
(45:29):
So fruits, vegetables, nuts,seeds and omega 3 fatty acids.
Acids.
That's kind of the, you know,secret to good health.
So you definitely want tofavor doing a mostly plant based
diet and again, you know, notprocessed and minimizing, you know,
sugars and stuff like that,but just going for those whole, you
(45:51):
know, organically grown fruitsand vegetables.
And we found that, you know,every plant has its own pharmacy
in it.
They, there's hundreds ofdifferent kind of plant chemicals
in that, that, that all actlike, you know, they have these specialized
medicines in it.
So this is why it'srecommended to do a really colorful
and diverse, you know, dietbecause then we can, you know, take
(46:14):
advantage of all these, youknow, different kind of natural medicines,
you know, in the plant.
Aren't those called flavonoids?
So they're, that's a category,you know, of it.
So, so there's differentmolecules, we call them phytochemicals
or plant chemicals.
And so each of them, like Isaid, has their own kind of natural
(46:39):
abilities.
They're considered activemolecules that have good anti inflammatory
properties and antioxidantproperties to them kind of across
the board.
But they're biologically active.
And the pharmaceutical, seepharma, pharmaceutical companies,
you know, study plants, theyfigure out the mechanisms by which
(47:01):
they work and then they tellus that the plants don't work.
So like you know, forinstance, turmeric, you know, so
turmeric is Indian spice.
And so, you know, they've donejust huge amounts of research on
it.
It's the most researched plantthat there is.
There's like, you know, like Idon't know, 30,000 studies in the
medical research or if notmore, more and they're doing a lot
(47:24):
of research in it and MDAnderson, you know, in Houston, the
cancer hospital, but you know,they found that it has like 30 different
anti cancer properties to it.
But there's like just millionsof other things that it does too.
So it's almost like it's a toogood to be true kind of a thing.
I take turmeric every singleday, you know, supplement flaunt
(47:44):
too, just because it's so, youknow, incredibly healthy.
Last but you know, the, like Isaid, these things have all been
researched like crazy.
So it's like when I firststarted, they say, oh, there's no
research on it.
I was like, well, if you lookit up, I mean, like I said, there's
about 30,000 or more.
You know, every time I lookit's, you know, 10,000 more published
(48:06):
research studies on it.
So we've really, you know,studied the heck out of it.
And the other kind of area ofinterest in research that they're
doing is that ever since wemapped out the human genome, it became
this kind of favorite thing ofresearchers to look at everything,
you know, from the exercisethat we do to sleep to, you know,
(48:28):
to all these different plantsand look and see how are they affecting
our genes, you know, so likewhat genes are being turned on and
which genes are being turnedoff, you know, too.
So we really understand at avery sophisticated level about why,
you know, these variousdifferent things like exercise.
Again, we used to think, oh,it's just good for your cardiovascular
(48:49):
system.
But it turns out that whenyou're exercising, your body releases
all these different kinds ofchemicals and, and then it affects
your genes and your DNA and stuff.
So that's where we get thishuge kind of global effect, you know,
positive health benefits, youknow, from, from doing physical activity.
So yeah, so anyway, we diddefinitely, we've had, you know,
(49:12):
this kind of explosion inresearch, you know, in the areas
of looking at, you know,plants and, and more alternative
medicine techniques too, andthen having a really pretty sophisticated
understanding of exactly why,you know, these things are beneficial
for us.
This is so important whatyou're doing with women.
It's educating them on so manydifferent things.
(49:33):
The outcomes that you'recreating are tremendous.
Do you work with womenvirtually or do they need to come
into your office in California or.
Yeah, so I, I work virtually.
I mean, I, I do have my ownthermal imaging business where I
go a variety of different places.
And besides San Diego, I go upto Palo Alto and do imaging there
(49:54):
like four times a year.
I go to Cincinnati.
Greater Cincinnati area,because that's where my son and my
grandsons are.
And so I do some imagingthere, too.
But I work, you know, mostly,you know, online, and I do zoom consultations.
And so a lot of them reallycenter around people who have had
(50:15):
thermal imaging and they wantto understand their results.
And then I do, you know,health coaching with them.
And then the other populationof people that seeks me out really
are.
Are women who are kind ofnewly diagnosed with breast cancer,
and they want me to help themkind of navigate the system.
So there's all sorts of thingsthat women can do from, you know,
we'll say more natural, youknow, kind of techniques that can,
(50:39):
you know, unbelievablyimprove, you know, their outcomes.
And one of my areas ofspecialty also is helping women when
they're going throughchemotherapy because we found, you
know, there's all thesedifferent kinds of, you know, herbs
and supplements that are ableto counteract the side effects of
chemotherapy withoutinterfering with it.
(51:01):
So we can create a situationwhere, you know, a woman most likely
just kind of sails through chemo.
No nausea, no vomiting, noweight loss, their blood counts stay
normal, and they just sail through.
Why isn't Western medicinedoing this routinely?
We don't know.
Well, pharmaceutical companies.
(51:22):
Don't they pay for a lot ofthe med schools?
Well, they do, but there's noreason why you can't combine that,
you know, with certainnutritional supplements and so forth
that take away all the side effects.
And, you know, so thoseusually the side effects of chemo
are the thing that kills thepatient, you know.
Yeah, it's terrible.
Yeah.
Dr.
Horner, where do people find you?
(51:44):
What is your website?
Sure.
My website is.
Is med thermsc.com so med m ed therm t h e R M and then S as in
Sam C as in count stands forSouthern California dot com.
So that's my website.
That's really the best place,you know, to.
(52:06):
To go because I have othercontact, you know, if you can email
me through my, you know,website or I have like a kind of
a message line where you canleave a message.
Message if you want to do itthat way.
And just lots and lots ofreally good information, you know,
on my website.
And they have in.
In every form of learning.
So there's, you know, videos,there's articles, there's audio,
(52:27):
there are radio interviewsthere posted.
Yeah.
So some of what we've covered.
People can delve in a littlebit more by going to your website
because.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
This is quite the educationthere's so many things to consider.
And I love the fact thatyou're working with people with a
tailor made program versusconventional medicine, which is one
size fits all in so many caseswith baselines.
(52:50):
What you do is very impressive.
Just so you know.
Like, it's.
You make a big difference.
And this is phenomenal.
Thank you for everything thatyou've done.
Oh, you're welcome.
We need more people like you.
And I hope this has motivatedsome women to say, hey, we need some
changes here.
Thermography.
Thermography.
Let's get this out there fordiagnostic purposes, for prevention,
(53:14):
and have the insurancecompanies cover it because it just
makes sense to me.
If you can catch it before ithappens, there's gonna be a lot of
savings and a lot of griefthat's saved for people, too.
People aren't gonna have to gothrough these surgeries and we're
saving lives.
And that seems like what itshould be.
Yeah.
(53:35):
Yeah.
Dr.
Horner, you are a true champion.
And thank you.
Oh, you're welcome.
Thank you guys for what you do.
I mean, it's like you help toget this information out too.
That's right.
We're trying to empower asmany women as possible in so many
different ways.
It's so important.
Yeah.
Well, thank you, Dr.
Horner.
It's been an honor having youon the show.
(53:56):
We hope you've enjoyed thislatest episode.
And if you want to hear moreepisodes of Women Road warriors or
learn more about our show, besure to check out womenroadwarriors.com
and please follow us on social media.
And don't forget to subscribeto our podcast on our website.
We also have a selection ofpodcasts just for women.
(54:17):
They're a series of podcastsfrom different podcasters.
So if you're in the mood forwomen's podcasts, just click the
Power network tab onwomenroadwarriors.com youm'll have
a variety of shows to listento anytime you want.
Podcasts Made for Women WomenRoad warriors is on all the major
podcast channels like Apple,Spotify, Amazon, Audible, YouTube
(54:37):
and others.
Check us out and please followus wherever you listen to podcasts.
Thanks for listening.
You've been listening to WomenRoad warriors with Shelly Johnson
and Kathy Tucaro.
If you want to be a guest onthe show or have a topic or feedback,
email us@sjohnsonomenroadwarriors.com.
This is Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
From the corporate office tothe cab of a truck, they're here
to inspire and empower womenin all professions.
So gear down, sit back and enjoy.
(00:23):
Welcome.
We're an award winning showdinner dedicated to empowering women
in every profession throughinspiring stories and expert insights.
No topics off limits on ourshow, we power women on the road
to success with expert andcelebrity interviews and information
you need.
I'm Shelly and this is Kathy.
(00:44):
Did you know that not allinsurance companies paid for breast
reconstruction after amastectomy in the United States until
the late 1990s?
Not everyone knows that, butthey should.
Not all states requiredinsurance companies to do this.
Women who had to undergoradical surgery to win their fight
against breast cancer wereoften permanently scarred unless
(01:06):
they paid out of their own pocket.
That changed after legislationwas passed that was spearheaded by
Dr.
Christine Horner.
Her five year crusade led tothe passage of laws in 35 states
and a federal law called theWomen's Health and Cancer Rights
act of 1998.
That was the first lawCongress ever passed that required
insurance companies to pay fora specific surgical procedure.
(01:29):
Dr.
Horner even took her campaignto the White House where she met
with President Clinton andHillary Clinton.
Dr.
Horner mounted this charge forwomen and won after an insurance
company refused to pay for oneof her patients breast reconstructions.
Dr.
Horner is one of our modernday heroes.
She's a board certified andnationally recognized surgeon, author,
expert in natural medicine,and relentless champion for women's
(01:53):
health.
She wrote the book Waking thewarrior goddess.
Dr.
Christine Horner's program toprotect against and fight breast
cancer.
Dr.
Horner is a popular radio andTV program guest.
She's appeared on numerousnational shows including the Oprah
Winfrey Show, NBC Nightly Newswith Tom Brokaw, Fox and Friends,
and CNN.
She was also interviewed by Dr.
(02:14):
Oz and Dr.
Mercola.
We have the honor of featuring Dr.
Horner on the show with us today.
Welcome, Dr.
Horner.
Thank you for being with us.
Thank you.
Wow.
Oh my goodness.
First of all, Dr.
Horner, I want to thank youfor being such a powerful advocate
and champion for women.
You've improved the lives forso many.
(02:35):
It's just wonderful.
Well, it was an atrocity, Ihave to say.
You know, I was a plasticsurgeon and you know, and the insurance
companies suddenly stoppedpaying for breast reconstruction.
I think that was like 1993,you know, it was really shocking.
And then just to, you know,experience the horrors that these
(02:58):
women had, you know, withtheir insurance Companies where they,
the insurance companies justpulled all sorts of things, you know,
where they got them scheduledand then they, the day or two before
surgery, they'd say, oh,sorry, we changed our minds.
And you know, it was, yeah, itwas just terrible.
Um, so I just thought, youknow, when I got a letter from an
(03:19):
insurance company that saidthat they weren't going to pay for
breast Reconstruction on my 32year old patient because it was on
an organ with no function, Iwas just like, that's what they said.
We're not going to pay for itbecause it's on an organ with no
function.
I thought, well, they didn'tknow their biology, did they?
(03:39):
Or anything about their anatomy.
Oh, my Lord.
And I just thought, hey, I'msure your wife is really happy about.
Yeah.
But anyway, yeah, so I justgot so mad.
I was just like, you know,you're going to pay and everybody's
going to pay.
So, yeah, I, I ended uporganizing, you know, the national
campaign to pass legislationto make it mandatory that insurance
(04:00):
companies pay for breastreconstruction after mastectomy.
And it was right after theClinton health care, you know, kind
of effort they did failed.
And so they said, oh,Washington's not going to hear anything.
You're going to have to do itin the states.
And I was like, oh, my go,it's not going to do it 50 times.
You know, the worst case scenario.
(04:22):
But, you know, we ended upgetting 35 state laws passed.
And then I found a loopholelaw where it's called the Employees
Retirement Income securities Act.
And so basically within that,it exempts, you know, virtually everyone
from state laws.
So, like, even though you passstate laws, you're really not covering
(04:45):
anybody.
So then I was just like, allright, that's it, you know, like,
I'm to meet President Clinton.
And so, you know, I wanted togo straight to the top instead of
working from the bottom up.
So I did this thing whereevery person I met for two, only
two weeks, every person I met,I was like, do you know how I can
(05:06):
meet President Clinton?
Do you know how I can meetPresident Clinton?
And so within two weeks, I metsomeone who knew someone on the Federal
Trade Commission and had lunchwith them.
And like five days later, Iwas in Washington, D.C.
talking to President Clinton.
Wow.
Bravo.
That's spectacular.
And I got to pay $10,000 forthe opportunity.
(05:28):
Yeah, because, you know, ourgovernment's all bought and paid
for, so it was, it was reallyan education.
But anyway, yeah, I talkedwith him and it ended up, it was
like A five year campaign and,and just doing tons and tons and
tons of kind of grassrootsefforts and, and lobbying.
And so, you know, sadly, thisis another thing with our government.
(05:51):
The bill was never heard incommittee and it's all about who
owes who a favor.
Right.
And so I had, works withSenator Ted Kennedy, you know, sponsored
the bill and then I had AnnaEshu from California as a representative
sponsoring the bill.
(06:13):
And then so that was theDemocratic side.
So I said that that was theleft breast.
And then the Republicans hadtheir own bill.
So it's the right breast.
And so anyway, one of thesponsors of the Republican bill was
running for reelection and hehad this very complex bill that had
lots of different things in it.
(06:34):
And he said, I need somethingto run on.
And they were like, well, youcan't have everything.
Pick one thing.
And he said, all right, I pickbreast reconstruction.
And so it was tacked onto thebudget bill and the last day of Congress.
I mean, it kind of reads likea novel.
But I got passed.
I say there was divine intervention.
(06:54):
Now it is a federal law thatall women have breast reconstruction
available to them.
Every insurance company has tocover it.
And we included all sorts ofthings in it, such as doing cemetery
operations.
So the two sides match with a concept.
But.
Yeah, so now that's a.
Yeah.
(07:14):
So insurance companieswouldn't pay for those operations.
They wanted somebody to havelopsided breasts.
You don't want to pay for anything.
Oh my goodness.
You know, Dr.
Horner, you and I were talkingbefore the show.
You had said that even thoughinsurance companies didn't want to
pay for breast reconstruction,they would pay for penile implants.
(07:36):
Am I correct?
Yeah, you are correct.
So when I this the, I mean,the very first case that I had was
medic, a Medicaid, you know, patient.
So that's like, you know,basically a physician who's a particularly
a surgeon.
When you have a Medicaidpatient, your overhead expenses for
(07:59):
that person exceeds whatyou're paid.
You know, so it's kind of likeyou're, you know, you're doing a
good deed, contributing.
But anyway, you know, my firstpatient that got denied was in Indiana.
I was, you know, working inCincinnati, Ohio.
So I had offices in Kentucky,Ohio and Indiana because they all
(08:20):
kind of come together in alittle corner by the Ohio River.
But anyway, it was an IndianaMedicaid patient.
And so, you know, I keptreading this letter I got and I thought,
you know what, like they saidI wasn't medically indicated or something.
And so, you know, I wrote himback and I said, hey, you know, like,
(08:42):
if you pay for, you know,like, penile reconstruction, but
you won't pay for breastreconstruction, that's a very sexist
policy.
So he writes me back and he,you know, young lady, you're completely
out of line.
You know, the lady.
Oh, my God.
Yeah, of course, of course.
So I ended up, you know, with.
With the Medicaid government system.
(09:03):
There was a.
A state kind of like health care.
Like, it was like, you know,getting lawyers involved in everything
where I had to present, youknow, to them.
And so I just.
I came with, you know, tonsand tons of studies that showed that
(09:23):
women who, you know, had someform of reconstruction actually did
a whole lot better, you know,psychologically, emotionally, and
even physically.
And the woman who was thejudge, that was like a state court
hearing.
So the judge was a woman.
So she ruled in my favor.
And as I was leaving, one ofthe assistants comes running after
(09:47):
me, and she said, I'm so gladyou won, because not only does Medicaid,
you know, pay for penilereconstruction, but the number one
case that they paid for, youknow, back then, that was before
Viagra, back in the early1990s, she said, was penile implants.
You know, those were.
That was the number one casethey paid for.
(10:09):
You know, isn't this anexample of patriarchy?
You know, that's just disgusting.
Yep.
And, you know, the averageperson doesn't know all of this.
People need to be educated.
Kathy, I had a quick question.
You're in Canada, and you'refrom Canada.
Do you know what the policy ison breast reconstruction and reimbursement
(10:30):
there after a mastectomy?
I'm sorry, I don't.
Okay, well, it's allowed.
I had, you know, some friendswhen I was working as a plastic surgeon.
At least it was, you know, that.
That worked in Canada, so itwas allowed.
But, you know, they did.
They did experimental thingshere in the United States to begin
with because, you know, wewere having, you know, terrible budget
(10:52):
issues, you know, with.
With our health care.
And so, you know, because theClinton health care, you know, stuff
didn't go through, then they.
That they wanted to try thingsexperimentally in the States.
And so Washington and Oregonkind of took the lead.
And so, you know, in.
(11:12):
I think it was in Washington,they came up with this idea that
they would just list everykind of surgical procedure that a
person can have, and then theyjust arbitrarily, like, drew this
line, and everything above theline was paid for and everything
below the line was not.
So reconstruction, obstructionof every single body part, including,
(11:36):
you know, prosthetic earsthat, you know, have no function
or the prosthetic eye thatcan't see.
All of those were covered.
And the only body part for,you know, reconstruction that wasn't
covered that was below thatline was that of the female breast.
Yeah.
Yep.
Wow.
Yeah.
(11:57):
No words.
Yeah.
Obviously there weren't anywomen that had any kind of input
into this.
Well, you know, I guess notuntil I came along.
Yeah.
And bravo.
What you've done istremendous, and you need to be honored
for all of your hard workbecause you've made such a difference
(12:19):
in women's lives.
It's just astounding.
Stay tuned for more of WomenRoad warriors coming up.
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
I have one question for you.
Do you want to stop worryingabout the irs?
If the answer is yes, thenlook no further.
(12:40):
I've been around for years.
I've helped countless peopleacross the country, and my success
rate speaks for itself.
So now you know where to findgood, honest help with your tax problems.
What are you waiting for?
If you owe more than $10,000,the IRS or haven't filed in years,
call me now at 888-557-4020 orgo to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free
consultation and get your life back.
(13:03):
Industry Movement TruckingMoves America Forward is telling
the story of the industry.
Our safety champions, thewomen of trucking, independent contractors,
the next generation oftruckers, and more.
Help us promote the best ofour industry.
Share your story and what youlove about trucking.
Share images of a momentyou're proud of and join us on social
(13:24):
media.
Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
back to Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
If you're enjoying thisinformative episode of Women Road
(13:44):
Warriors, I wanted to mentionKathy and I explore all kinds of
topics that will power you onthe road to success.
We feature a lot of expert interviews.
Plus we feature celebritiesand women who've been trailblazers.
Please check out ourpodcast@womenroadwarriors.com and
click on our episodes page.
We're also available whereveryou listen to podcasts on all the
(14:05):
major podcast channels likeSpotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon,
Music, Audible, you name it.
Check us out and bookmark our podcast.
Also, don't forget to followus on social media.
We're on Twitter, Facebook,Instagram, Pinterest, LinkedIn, YouTube,
and other sites and tellothers about us.
We want to help as Many womenas possible.
(14:25):
It wasn't until 1998 thatinsurance companies across the United
States were mandated to payfor breast reconstruction after a
woman underwent a mastectomy.
Many companies refused becausethey said the breasts after reconstruction
lacked any function.
This was done at the same timethat they covered penile reconstructions
and penile implants.
(14:47):
This changed dramaticallyafter Dr.
Christine Horner launched amassive campaign to change this patriarchal
and discriminatory practicethat hurt women.
She was instrumental ingetting laws changed in 35 states.
Her tireless work led to thepassage of the women's health and
cancer Rights act of 1998,mandating coverage for breast reconstructions
(15:07):
in all 50 states.
Dr.
Horner has been a fierceadvocate and champion for women's
health.
She's a board certified andnationally recognized surgeon, author
and expert in natural medicine.
She wrote the book waking thewarrior goddess.
Dr.
Christine Horner's program toprotect against and fight breast
Cancer.
She's a wealth of informationand she's doing so many things.
(15:29):
And now you're working toeducate women about breast cancer
prevention.
You do so many things in that area.
Did you want to talk aboutsome of that?
Because you have some majorinsight that I don't think a lot
of women are told about bytheir conventional doctor.
Yeah.
Huh.
Well, you know, so right, right.
(15:51):
At the same time, when I wasworking on the breast reconstruction
legislation, I startednoticing that my patients were getting
younger and younger and younger.
The ones that were, you know,coming in with breast cancer and
requiring, you know, breast reconstruction.
And finally I had women comingin my door that were in their twenties.
(16:13):
And I mean that, I mean thatjust like, I was devastated, you
know, when that started happening.
And I just thought, oh my God.
I mean, clearly something isseriously wrong.
And, and you know, we knowfrom epidemiological studies, so
these are like studies of, youknow, groups of people that people
who are born in, at least thisused to be before our terrible western,
(16:38):
you know, culture is likecontaminated the rest of the world.
But at one time, you know,Asian populations had the lowest,
you know, incidence of breast cancer.
And, and so they found that ifan Asian woman moved to the United
States and adopt our Americandiet and lifestyle within one generation,
her risk would match that ofan American woman.
(17:01):
So it's like, well, duh, youknow, what are they doing or not
doing that we're, we're doingor not doing this, Making such a
big differ.
And so, you know, this again,I mean, it's time flies.
Boy, you know, it's been 30years right.
But I, I decided to startresearching and kind of going through
the medical research to find,you know, what, if anything, women
(17:22):
could do to help to lower therisk of breast cancer.
Because, you know, we werenever taught anything.
They just said, oh, get magrams, you know, the best thing a
woman can do and try to catchit early.
And that's the way we're goingto save lives.
Well, my mom actually.
Side story.
So my mom got breast cancer.
And so she did great from herfirst breast cancer.
(17:45):
Well, then she ended upgetting another breast cancer on
her opposite breast years later.
So, as you can imagine, theywere following her very carefully.
She did everything Westernmedicine told her to do, had all
her mammograms, everything.
They caught it early.
And then five years afterthat, she suddenly said, you know,
(18:06):
I think something's wrong withmy leg.
I think I pulled a muscle.
And I saw her and I thought,oh, my God, that's not what that
is.
So it turned out that she hadmetastatic breast cancer from stage
one disease.
The initial became metastaticbreast cancer to her femur, leg bone.
And so she, she was 75 and shedecided that she didn't want to go
(18:30):
through any horrible treatment.
She said, I'm not going tohave, you know, chemo, I'm not going
to do radiation, I'm not goingto do it.
So then she ended up ninemonths later.
So that was another thing thatreally rocked my world because this
was all at the same time, thiswas happening where I was just like,
you know, my mom dideverything Western medicine told
her to do and she's dead.
(18:50):
You know, like this desperate work.
And.
And so it's just like, okay,what can women do?
So anyway, I did thisliterature search and so as soon
as I started looking, I mean,I found this was back in the early
1990s, I found thousands ofstudies showing exactly why we have
a breast cancer epidemic andprostate cancer and colon cancer
(19:12):
and ill health in general.
And.
And it's all stems from ourhorrible American diet lifestyle.
I mean, duh.
I mean, the criminal thing is too.
It's like, so here I wentthrough medical school and board
certified in general surgeryand plastic surgery.
So I had one of the longestmedical trainings you could have.
I did not have a single coursein nutrition ever.
(19:36):
Wow.
You know, it's interesting.
A lot of doctors don't.
Well, more do now, thank God,but it's not universal.
And, you know, actually when Imet with President Clinton the first
time, I, you know, flew backto Cincinnati.
And so the television stationsent a reporter, television news
(19:56):
anchor out to interview meabout it.
And it turned out that he'dbeen a teacher of transcendental
medicine meditation for about30 years.
And so he's like, you reallyneed to learn how to do transcendental
meditation.
I'm like, great, fine.
So I, I did that.
And then he said, well, youknow, if you want to know more, it's
like, well, there.
It comes from this system ofmedicine called Ayurveda, which I'd
(20:18):
never heard of, I'membarrassed to say at the time.
And so he's, you know, he's,he sent me to this, you know, spa
in Fairfield, Iowa to do adetoxification program with them
called Panchakarma.
So it's actually a 5,000 yearold, the kind of detoxification,
you know, program.
And so I signed up for aboutthree days and 48 hours into it,
(20:41):
I looked in the mirror and Ilooked 10 years younger and never
felt better in my life.
And I thought, oh my God,these people know something.
So I started studying Ayurvedalike crazy.
So I'm certified in Ayurveda.
And that, that really led tome deciding to leave my surgical
practice and really focus onteaching people how to become and
(21:03):
stay healthy naturally andavoid the knife.
So, so I did, I left my, my practice.
I decided I actually startedworking in the television, local
television newscast on ABC andNBC, doing a segment on complementary
and alternative medicine.
And I just started reallyfalling in love with doing that because
(21:26):
I felt like, boy, you know, ontelevision you're really reaching,
you know, thousands of people,lots of them.
You'd never, you know,normally have, have those people
coming into your office.
And so I felt like I wasmaking a bigger impact for the world
than just, you know, doingliposuctions and breast augmentations.
And yeah, so I left my practice.
(21:47):
And then for about 20 years Iworked, you know, kind of as a media
doctor.
I've, you know, written acouple award winning books.
You mentioned the, you know,the book I wrote for, you know, breast
health.
But I also wrote a book calledRadiant Health, Ageless Beauty.
And it's about how to createhealth, which I never learned in
(22:08):
medical school, but you know,it's got a foundation in Ayurveda
as well as, you know, modern research.
But it's kind of like all thedifferent elements, you know, that
are important to be able toexperience extraordinary health and
longevity.
So yeah, for 20 years I didflew all over the country doing,
you know, televisioninterviews and radio interviews.
(22:30):
And I Had my own, you know,radio show and wrote for, you know,
articles in national magazinesand everything.
And, and then Covid hit.
So, yeah, so that was, youknow, television station shut down.
No, in studio interviews, allthe speaking engages didn't happen.
So, so I had been introducedto this technology called thermal
(22:54):
imaging.
And this, it uses an infraredcamera to take a picture basically
of the body.
So it's non, invasive,completely, you know, safe, it doesn't
use radiation and it, youknow, picking up kind of heat, you
know, patterns.
And it's a physiological test.
So it tells us how things arefunctioning in the body, but basically
(23:16):
it can be used as apreventative tool.
And it's the only, you know,kind of imaging preventative tool
that we have where it can takeimages of the body and see imbalances
before, you know, you developsomething bad.
And then you can, you know,institute, you know, various different
preventative measures to turnthings around.
(23:38):
So it's actually more accurateat an earlier stage than mammographies.
Well, you know, mammograms,mammograms, ultrasounds, MRI scans,
these are a category ofanatomical tests.
So what they're doing isthey're taking a cross section of
the human body and they'relooking at the underlying architecture.
(24:01):
The only thing that they'regoing to pick up is if you have had
a structural change to your body.
So in other words, they'reonly going to tell you about something
that you already have.
So it's half.
Yeah, so whereas thermalimaging, I mean, that's really fascinating
because we start to see thesetemperature changes that happen in
(24:27):
the body to indicate thatthere's something going on as far
as an imbalance, you know,years before somebody, you know,
develops a significant issue.
And so those are the thingsthat we can kind of pick up.
So for instance, if we'respecifically, specifically talking
about the breasts before awoman develops breast cancer, we
start to see thesephysiological changes, like I said,
(24:50):
years before somebody developsa breast cancer.
And so they're going to looklike some vascular patterns or heat
patterns or the thing wealways look for is does one side
match the other?
Because it turns out that thehuman body is extremely symmetrical
(25:11):
thermographically.
And so whenever we have anyimbalances, and this is all kind
of a phenomenon that happenswith a part of our nervous system
called the sympathetic nervous system.
And that's the one that'sinvolved in the fight or flight kind
of reactions.
But basically the nervoussystem innervates the skin and whenever
(25:33):
there's any kind of Underlyingimbalances, dysfunctions, injuries,
infections, anything like thatgoing on.
The sympathetic nervous systemcauses the overlying skin temperature
to change.
And our software programactually assigns a different color
to every temperature.
So even if we have teeny tinydifferences, it changes the color
(25:56):
with the software program andit just pops out there to let us
know that something's going on.
So we can pick up these veryearly imbalances where they're easily
reversible with simple dots.
Diet, lifestyle andnutritional supplements.
So when I identify women, forinstance, that look like they're
at an increased future riskfor developing breast cancer, we
(26:19):
can interrupt that whole process.
I definitely use my book, the,you know, Waking the Warrior Goddess
to have women educatethemselves about all the do's and
don'ts, you know, for loweringtheir risk.
And, and then we add certainkey nutritional supplements and we
get this spectacularimprovement that happens usually
within three months.
(26:39):
And so, you know, see howsomebody's breasts are restored to
health.
And again, it's the only testthat's going to show us that.
And so we have this ability tomonitor, you know, the health of
the breast as well as the restof the body, pick up these very early
imbalances when they're atreversible stages, and then interrupt
that whole process of creatinga disease.
(27:01):
This sounds like a much betterway to help women versus a mammography
or a mammogram.
You know, squishing thebreasts using radiation that actually
increases the risk of thedisease is looking for.
I mean, to me, that's thedefinition of insanity.
Yeah, well, and I thinkwhoever designed the mammogram really
(27:22):
hated his mother because whowants to slam your breast into a
vice and then crank it down?
I mean, really awful, youknow, and the machine itself, or
what, I don't know what theparts are, but it isn't shaped like
a woman's rib cage.
I mean, you're basicallypushing yourself up to a tabletop
and slamming your breasts intoa vice.
(27:44):
Yeah, yeah.
It is horrible.
And it's unnecessary becauseyou know, what the research shows
us is that, well, there's likelong term studies that have been
done on mammography followingwomen for 20 to 25 years.
And this came out maybe six,seven years ago.
And so, you know, we thoughtmammograms were the golden standard.
(28:04):
They were the be all, end all.
That's the only thing youneeded to do.
And at the end of thosestudies, what they showed was that,
you know, that mammograms werenot even remotely as good as we thought
that they were and that theyhad all sorts of problems, you know,
that we really, you know, kindof poo pooed or underestimated that
were, you know, really significant.
I mean, it's not appropriatefor women under like 40 or 50 because
(28:30):
the breast tissue when it'syounger is dense and you can't see
through it.
But it turns out that evenlike 40% of women have dense breasts
even after menopause, youknow, so there's huge populations
of women where it doesn't workvery well because of that.
Also, it doesn't work wellwhen, when women have really small
breasts or if they have verylarge breasts or if they have implants
(28:53):
in.
And so, you know, there's justa lot of, you know, categories.
So with the research lookingat combining thermal imaging, you
know, a physiological testwith an ultrasound, you know, which
is a completely harmlessanatomical test, we actually get
(29:15):
a much better evaluation ofthe breast tissue than we do, you
know, with some, with mammography.
And it can be used ineverybody, no matter what age.
I mean, both of those are safefor babies.
Oh, that speaks volumes.
Stay tuned for more of womenroad warriors coming up.
(29:39):
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
I have one question for you.
Do you want to stop worryingabout the irs?
If the answer is yes, thenlook no further.
I've been around for years.
I've helped countless peopleacross the country, and my, my success
rate speaks for itself.
So now you know where to findgood, honest help with your tax problems.
What are you waiting for?
If you owe more than $10,000to the IRS or haven't filed in years,
(30:01):
call me now at 888-557-4020 orgo to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free
consultation and get your life back.
Industry movement Truckingmoves America Forward is telling
the story of the industry.
Our safety champions, thewomen of trucking, independent contractors,
the next generation oftruckers, and more.
(30:22):
Help us promote the best ofour industry.
Share your story and what youlove about trucking.
Share images of a momentyou're proud of and join us on social
media.
Learnmore@truckingmovesamerica.com welcome
back to Women Road warriorswith Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
(30:49):
As a nationally recognizedsurgeon who performed breast reconstructions,
Dr.
Christine Horner saw more andmore women coming in for surgery
following a mastectomy whowere in their 20s.
That sounded an alarm for herand set her on the road.
In preventive and naturalmedicine, Dr.
Horner could see something wasclearly wrong with this picture.
She decided to do research onhow women could lower their risk
(31:11):
for breast cancer.
That led her into Ayurvedicmedicine and her enrolling in a detoxification
program.
Her journey took off.
She became certified inAyurveda and left her surgical practice
to teach people how to becomeand stay healthy naturally and avoid
the knife.
She began a new segment on herlocal TV station about complementary
(31:32):
and alternative medicine.
She became a media doctor andauthority, writing a number of award
winning books.
Dr.
Horner was also introduced tothe technology of thermal imaging,
which she now promotes and offers.
It doesn't use radiation, butpicks up heat with an infrared camera
that can see imbalances beforea person develops a problem, so people
(31:53):
can enact preventive measuresto turn things around.
It's better than a mammogram,according to Dr.
Horner, which detects acondition you already have.
Plus, mammograms subject apatient to radiation.
And recent studies show thatthose tests are not the be all to
end all solution.
It's not appropriate for womenwith dense breast tissue or who are
under 40 or 50.
(32:13):
It's also not effective withwomen with very small breasts, very
large breasts, or who have implants.
Thermal imaging along withultrasound is much better, according
to Dr.
Horner.
It's safe and appropriate forpatients of all ages.
Dr.
Horner's giving us all kindsof important information that women
need to know, especially aboutthermal imaging.
(32:35):
So do insurance companiescover thermography or.
Mostly no, because it's preventative.
Yeah, so there are a fewinsurance companies that do cover
it, like in Florida and Texasand Arizona, but for the most part,
they don't.
When I do thermal imaging, Ialways give my clients the various
(32:57):
codes, you know, that they cansubmit to their insurance company.
Diagnostic codes.
Yeah, yeah.
So there's an ICD9 diagnosticand then the procedural code, the
CPT code.
So occasionally, you know,somebody can get a partial reimbursement
for the most part.
I mean, in SouthernCalifornia, I've never heard of it
(33:18):
happening, but yeah, I.
Think that there needs to be amovement to get the insurance companies
to cover this because it makesso much sense.
And, you know, they're alwaystalking about prevention, prevention,
but they aren't practicingwhat they're preaching.
Correct.
And then they'll say, get.
You know, we offerpreventative, you know, like testing
(33:41):
and stuff, including mammograms.
I'm like, well, they're not preventative.
I mean, they only tell you ifyou've got breast cancer.
You know, you're educatingwomen because, yes, Women are being
conditioned to say, okay,every year I've got to have a mammogram
if I'm past a certain age,yada yada.
Oh, and if you have densebreast tissue, you're at a higher
risk of breast cancer.
Is that true?
(34:02):
I don't know.
Yeah, there is a slightincreased risk if you have, you know,
denser breasts.
But mammograms, like I said,can't see through dense breasts at
all.
So it's a worthless test, youknow, for those women, which is actually
a significant portion of the population.
So this is, I mean, to me, youknow, combining thermal imaging with
(34:24):
ultrasounds.
Like I said, the researchshows that by doing that we get a
better evaluation and thenhaving it where it's painless, it
doesn't use radiation, you canuse it on 20 year olds, you know,
because I think it's veryimportant to start doing some kind
of preventative, you know,imaging in women that are very young
(34:45):
because I operated on women intheir 20s or I.
And this is not a comment, youknow, for women to get breast cancer
in their 30s and all.
And those women can't getmammograms, mammograms can't see
anything.
And so, you know, here we havethis, you know, really, really wonderful
tool, you know, to help us.
And, and so, you know, to meit like is, instead of waiting, having,
(35:09):
having women kind ofconditioned to be like, oh, I don't
even have to think aboutbreast cancer until I'm 50, it's
like, well then, no, that'snot true.
And actually, you know,instilling really good health habits
when you're young obviouslyhas huge benefits.
And so by using thermalimaging, we're doing this in college
campuses.
(35:30):
We're kind of introducingyoung people to this tool that can
really help them to see ifthey've got imbalances in their body
and then having conversationsabout what you can do to lower your
risk.
Of course, the thing that Ifound when I was writing my book
on, on breast cancerprevention is that everything that
(35:53):
lowers the risk of breastcancer are the same things that lower
your risk of every single, youknow, chronic disease and, and produce
good health.
So it's not like these thingsare super specific for breast cancer
is, is just like, I mean, agood diet, exercise, reducing stress,
you know, meditation, going tobed, you know, at a, before 10:00
(36:16):
at night has a huge, you know,statistical influence and, and then
relationships.
That's, that was some of themost interesting research I thought,
where we looked at, okay, allthe different factors that affect
our health from, you know,genetics and diet, smoking, all those
kinds of things.
The one thing that affects ourhealth more than anything, more than
(36:39):
diet, smoking and genetics isfeeling loved and supported.
That's the number one thingthat influences us.
So if you feel loved andsupported, I always joke about this.
You know, you can drink, youcan smoke, you're going to live to
be 100, right?
But the opposite is true whereif you are in toxic relationships,
(37:01):
it's the most toxic thing tothe human body.
It's way worse than smokingcigarettes and drinking whiskey.
Well, when you think about it,infants that don't have love and
nurture cannot survive.
That was discovered, what,back in the 1800s or a long time
ago, babies that wereneglected and not picked up and held,
(37:24):
they didn't survive.
They needed the love and nurturing.
It's not going to change as we grow.
It's an absolute innate needthat humans have.
And toxic relationships, oh,my gosh.
I mean, what it does to the body.
You're always in fight flight,aren't you?
Right.
That's right.
But, you know, it's.
It's just an interesting kindof twist to it where it's like, okay,
(37:45):
you can have a.
Let's just say that you havesuper stressful job, you know, where
you have constant stress from that.
The amount of stress that youfeel from that and the damage it
does to the body is not evenremotely in the category as if you
had relationship stress.
That's like a, A.
It's a whole different thing.
So I always say, you know,we're wired as human beings to be
(38:07):
in loving, supportive relationships.
And it's the most important thing.
The biggest, you know,influential factor is it's astounding.
So, you know, when I was asurgeon, of course I was working
ungodly hours.
And, And I mean, I probablyworked 14 hours a day.
You know, I.
And I had like one girlfriendbecause there was no time, right?
(38:29):
And I would see her like onceevery three months or something.
So when I decided to leave mypractice and then I, you know, decided
to leave Cincinnati and moveto Taos, New Mexico at that point,
too.
But from reading all thatresearch, I thought, okay, well,
I mean, I'm vegetarian since Iwas 14.
I meditate.
(38:49):
I do.
I mean, I did everything youcould possibly think up for health.
But the most importantinfluence is having loving, supportive
relationships.
You know, So I test actuallyto be slightly introverted.
So it takes me something.
But when I moved to NewMexico, I just thought, okay, this
is the most important thingfor my health.
So, like, when I went to thegym and I was in the locker room,
(39:12):
I made myself talk to everysingle woman in there so that I could,
like, quickly kind of form awhole group of, you know, girlfriends.
And so then, you know, whatI've done, you know, after that is,
like, I identify, like, thewomen that, you know, they're like
best, best friends, you know,kind of women that just every time
(39:34):
you're with them, it's justlike, you always feel better and
everything.
And so what I've done is,like, because those are my most important
relationships, I schedulethose people in my life.
So, like, I see one girlfriendevery Tuesday night.
I have another girlfriend Isee every Wednesday, I have see another
one on Friday, I have acouple, you know, So I schedule it
(39:55):
like that because otherwise,you know, you can find these wonderful
people that you love to bewith, but life gets in the way, and
you can end up going monthswithout seeing them.
And so, you know, for me, it'sjust like, okay, I'm going to schedule
that in my life.
And then, you know, I reallyhave this intention about being the
most supportive, loving friendthat I can, you know, to those people,
(40:17):
you know, too.
So it's intentional,intentional living that's so important.
Absolutely.
Wow.
You cover everything, and itmakes so much sense.
Now you're certified inAyurvedic medicine for our listeners
who don't understand that.
What is that exactly?
Yeah.
So Ayurveda, traditionalChinese medicine, and Ayurveda are
(40:41):
actually the two kind of majorholistic systems of medicine that
are still being practiced today.
So Ayurveda, Ayur means life,and Veda means knowledge.
So it literally means theknowledge of life.
I was like, how different fromWestern medicine was that?
So, so traditional Chinesemedicine and Ayurveda, you know,
(41:05):
a lot of areas where theyoverlap, But Ayurveda, of all, you
know, of all the systems, hasgot this incredible understanding
of what it is to be a humanbeing and a human body.
And so it's.
It recognizes all these kindof fundamental laws of nature, which,
if you follow them, yourbody's going to be in balance.
(41:26):
And it enhances your body'sinner healing intelligence.
If you violate those laws,like drinking, smoking, staying up
too late, lots of stress, it'sgoing to cause imbalances in the
body which will, you know,lead to disease.
So they have the mostsophisticated level of understanding,
I think, about, you know, howthe human body functions, what we
(41:49):
need to do to keep it intoBalance and how we can get it there.
They, you know, understandvarious different body constitutions
where we're not all the same.
And, and so it can't be cookbook.
And so that's an easy thing tosee where you have those really annoying,
teeny tiny skinny friends thatcan eat anything.
And then you have people thatjust, you know, like, you know, look
(42:12):
at a piece of cake and theygain weight.
So, and then lots of peoplethat react to hot spicy foods where
for another person, that's fine.
So this is reallyunderstanding, you know, the body
constitution and then doing avery specific program that matches,
you know, what your bodyconstitution is that helps to keep
you in balance, which mightthrow somebody else balance, you
(42:33):
know, depending on their, youknow, constitution.
But.
And then there's all sorts oftechniques that they have that we
call effective stress reducingtechniques because it was recognized
by a thousand years ago thatstress is a major contributor to
all the different, differentchronic diseases.
And so like Ayurveda is theoriginator of meditation, yoga.
(42:55):
Sorry, if people say, oh, Ihaven't heard of it.
It's like, oh, yes you have.
You know, they're using herbs.
They do the breathing, likepranayama breathing techniques that
helps to kind of balance the,the autonomic nervous system, the
parasympathetic andsympathetic, you know, nervous systems.
There is sound therapy, youknow, in it because we found that
(43:16):
that has this like, amazingeffect on b.
Balancing the human body.
So many, many differenttechniques that, that are all designed
to help to balance the bodythat then results in enhancing your
body's inner healing intelligence.
So it becomes very smart andit can take really, really good care
of you.
(43:37):
But if you violate those laws,then your inner healing intelligence
becomes stupid.
It can't take care of you.
You're helping your patientswith all of this.
You're incorporating all thesetechniques with complementary and
alternative medicine andteaching women how to stay healthy,
reduce their risk for breastcancer, I mean, and other chronic
diseases.
I mean, I still don't get whythis concept is so foreign in Western
(44:04):
countries.
And with the Western medicinewe treat you after the fact.
It just doesn't make sense.
Right, you're right, you're right.
You know, but I have to say,when I first started, you know, doing
this work, which was, youknow, back in the early mid, well,
mid-1990s, no one had heard of Ayurveda.
(44:25):
When I did speaking engagements.
How many people have heard of Ayurveda?
It's like no hands went up.
And now really the whole roomgoes up.
You know, the health foodstores were just kind of these mom
and pop things that werestarting organic was, you know, not
that accessible.
Ethopax then.
So the difference that I'veseen, you know, and I've been doing
(44:46):
this for 30 years now, youknow, so there's been this huge difference
as far as, you know, people'sawareness of, you know, all these
different kinds of healthythings that we could do that fall
into the category of, youknow, complementary and alternative
medicine.
It's it the, it is drasticallydifferent now than it, than it used
(45:07):
to be.
Now one of your educationaltechniques is to teach women to eat
the right foods.
What are the right foods.
I know that there are probablya lot of different options there,
but maybe some quick takeawaysfor our listeners.
Yeah, so always, you know, wetry to go for some, something that's
organically grown.
(45:29):
So fruits, vegetables, nuts,seeds and omega 3 fatty acids.
Acids.
That's kind of the, you know,secret to good health.
So you definitely want tofavor doing a mostly plant based
diet and again, you know, notprocessed and minimizing, you know,
sugars and stuff like that,but just going for those whole, you
(45:51):
know, organically grown fruitsand vegetables.
And we found that, you know,every plant has its own pharmacy
in it.
They, there's hundreds ofdifferent kind of plant chemicals
in that, that, that all actlike, you know, they have these specialized
medicines in it.
So this is why it'srecommended to do a really colorful
and diverse, you know, dietbecause then we can, you know, take
(46:14):
advantage of all these, youknow, different kind of natural medicines,
you know, in the plant.
Aren't those called flavonoids?
So they're, that's a category,you know, of it.
So, so there's differentmolecules, we call them phytochemicals
or plant chemicals.
And so each of them, like Isaid, has their own kind of natural
(46:39):
abilities.
They're considered activemolecules that have good anti inflammatory
properties and antioxidantproperties to them kind of across
the board.
But they're biologically active.
And the pharmaceutical, seepharma, pharmaceutical companies,
you know, study plants, theyfigure out the mechanisms by which
(47:01):
they work and then they tellus that the plants don't work.
So like you know, forinstance, turmeric, you know, so
turmeric is Indian spice.
And so, you know, they've donejust huge amounts of research on
it.
It's the most researched plantthat there is.
There's like, you know, like Idon't know, 30,000 studies in the
medical research or if notmore, more and they're doing a lot
(47:24):
of research in it and MDAnderson, you know, in Houston, the
cancer hospital, but you know,they found that it has like 30 different
anti cancer properties to it.
But there's like just millionsof other things that it does too.
So it's almost like it's a toogood to be true kind of a thing.
I take turmeric every singleday, you know, supplement flaunt
(47:44):
too, just because it's so, youknow, incredibly healthy.
Last but you know, the, like Isaid, these things have all been
researched like crazy.
So it's like when I firststarted, they say, oh, there's no
research on it.
I was like, well, if you lookit up, I mean, like I said, there's
about 30,000 or more.
You know, every time I lookit's, you know, 10,000 more published
(48:06):
research studies on it.
So we've really, you know,studied the heck out of it.
And the other kind of area ofinterest in research that they're
doing is that ever since wemapped out the human genome, it became
this kind of favorite thing ofresearchers to look at everything,
you know, from the exercisethat we do to sleep to, you know,
(48:28):
to all these different plantsand look and see how are they affecting
our genes, you know, so likewhat genes are being turned on and
which genes are being turnedoff, you know, too.
So we really understand at avery sophisticated level about why,
you know, these variousdifferent things like exercise.
Again, we used to think, oh,it's just good for your cardiovascular
(48:49):
system.
But it turns out that whenyou're exercising, your body releases
all these different kinds ofchemicals and, and then it affects
your genes and your DNA and stuff.
So that's where we get thishuge kind of global effect, you know,
positive health benefits, youknow, from, from doing physical activity.
So yeah, so anyway, we diddefinitely, we've had, you know,
(49:12):
this kind of explosion inresearch, you know, in the areas
of looking at, you know,plants and, and more alternative
medicine techniques too, andthen having a really pretty sophisticated
understanding of exactly why,you know, these things are beneficial
for us.
This is so important whatyou're doing with women.
It's educating them on so manydifferent things.
(49:33):
The outcomes that you'recreating are tremendous.
Do you work with womenvirtually or do they need to come
into your office in California or.
Yeah, so I, I work virtually.
I mean, I, I do have my ownthermal imaging business where I
go a variety of different places.
And besides San Diego, I go upto Palo Alto and do imaging there
(49:54):
like four times a year.
I go to Cincinnati.
Greater Cincinnati area,because that's where my son and my
grandsons are.
And so I do some imagingthere, too.
But I work, you know, mostly,you know, online, and I do zoom consultations.
And so a lot of them reallycenter around people who have had
(50:15):
thermal imaging and they wantto understand their results.
And then I do, you know,health coaching with them.
And then the other populationof people that seeks me out really
are.
Are women who are kind ofnewly diagnosed with breast cancer,
and they want me to help themkind of navigate the system.
So there's all sorts of thingsthat women can do from, you know,
we'll say more natural, youknow, kind of techniques that can,
(50:39):
you know, unbelievablyimprove, you know, their outcomes.
And one of my areas ofspecialty also is helping women when
they're going throughchemotherapy because we found, you
know, there's all thesedifferent kinds of, you know, herbs
and supplements that are ableto counteract the side effects of
chemotherapy withoutinterfering with it.
(51:01):
So we can create a situationwhere, you know, a woman most likely
just kind of sails through chemo.
No nausea, no vomiting, noweight loss, their blood counts stay
normal, and they just sail through.
Why isn't Western medicinedoing this routinely?
We don't know.
Well, pharmaceutical companies.
(51:22):
Don't they pay for a lot ofthe med schools?
Well, they do, but there's noreason why you can't combine that,
you know, with certainnutritional supplements and so forth
that take away all the side effects.
And, you know, so thoseusually the side effects of chemo
are the thing that kills thepatient, you know.
Yeah, it's terrible.
Yeah.
Dr.
Horner, where do people find you?
(51:44):
What is your website?
Sure.
My website is.
Is med thermsc.com so med m ed therm t h e R M and then S as in
Sam C as in count stands forSouthern California dot com.
So that's my website.
That's really the best place,you know, to.
(52:06):
To go because I have othercontact, you know, if you can email
me through my, you know,website or I have like a kind of
a message line where you canleave a message.
Message if you want to do itthat way.
And just lots and lots ofreally good information, you know,
on my website.
And they have in.
In every form of learning.
So there's, you know, videos,there's articles, there's audio,
(52:27):
there are radio interviewsthere posted.
Yeah.
So some of what we've covered.
People can delve in a littlebit more by going to your website
because.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
This is quite the educationthere's so many things to consider.
And I love the fact thatyou're working with people with a
tailor made program versusconventional medicine, which is one
size fits all in so many caseswith baselines.
(52:50):
What you do is very impressive.
Just so you know.
Like, it's.
You make a big difference.
And this is phenomenal.
Thank you for everything thatyou've done.
Oh, you're welcome.
We need more people like you.
And I hope this has motivatedsome women to say, hey, we need some
changes here.
Thermography.
Thermography.
Let's get this out there fordiagnostic purposes, for prevention,
(53:14):
and have the insurancecompanies cover it because it just
makes sense to me.
If you can catch it before ithappens, there's gonna be a lot of
savings and a lot of griefthat's saved for people, too.
People aren't gonna have to gothrough these surgeries and we're
saving lives.
And that seems like what itshould be.
Yeah.
(53:35):
Yeah.
Dr.
Horner, you are a true champion.
And thank you.
Oh, you're welcome.
Thank you guys for what you do.
I mean, it's like you help toget this information out too.
That's right.
We're trying to empower asmany women as possible in so many
different ways.
It's so important.
Yeah.
Well, thank you, Dr.
Horner.
It's been an honor having youon the show.
(53:56):
We hope you've enjoyed thislatest episode.
And if you want to hear moreepisodes of Women Road warriors or
learn more about our show, besure to check out womenroadwarriors.com
and please follow us on social media.
And don't forget to subscribeto our podcast on our website.
We also have a selection ofpodcasts just for women.
(54:17):
They're a series of podcastsfrom different podcasters.
So if you're in the mood forwomen's podcasts, just click the
Power network tab onwomenroadwarriors.com youm'll have
a variety of shows to listento anytime you want.
Podcasts Made for Women WomenRoad warriors is on all the major
podcast channels like Apple,Spotify, Amazon, Audible, YouTube
(54:37):
and others.
Check us out and please followus wherever you listen to podcasts.
Thanks for listening.
You've been listening to WomenRoad warriors with Shelly Johnson
and Kathy Tucaro.
If you want to be a guest onthe show or have a topic or feedback,
email us@sjohnsonomenroadwarriors.com.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.