September 16, 2025 • 52 mins
Getting into college today is more complex than ever, and the cost leaves many graduates burdened with massive debt that delays buying homes or starting families. Student loan debt has tripled in 15 years, soaring past $1.7 trillion, with women carrying nearly two-thirds of it. It doesn’t have to be this way. Dr. Pamela Ellis, known as The Education Doctor, is an award-winning educator and best-selling author of What to Know Before They Go. Through her College Confidence Blueprint, she helps families avoid overpaying and positions teens for success. Over the past five years, 95% of her students have been admitted to their top-choice colleges with an average of $75,000 in scholarships. Her mission: to guide parents and students through the maze of college prep and paying for higher education the smart way. Shelley Johnson and Kathy Tuccaro tap into her insight in this episode of Women Road Warriors.
https://theeducationdoctor.com/
www.Compasscollegeadvisory.com
https://womenroadwarriors.com/
https://womenspowernetwork.net
#scholarships #education #college #PreparingForCollege #CollegeDebt, #TheEducationDoctor #DrPamelaEllis, #ShelleyMJohnson #ShelleyJohnson #KathyTuccaro #WomenRoadWarriors student loan debt, college preparation, scholarships for women, expert interviews, college admissions process, education financing, women in non-traditional careers, education doctor, high school to college transition, financial aid, college tuition costs, mentoring for students, self-advocacy skills, vocational training, women in leadership, college success strategies, parenting and education, navigating college costs
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
This is Women Road warriorswith Shelly.
Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
From the corporate office tothe cab of a truck, they're here
to inspire and empower womenin all professions.
So gear down, sit back and enjoy.
(00:23):
Welcome.
We're an award winning showdedicated to empowering women in
every profession throughinspiring stories and expert insights.
No topics off limits.
On our show, we power women onthe road to success with expert and
celebrity interviews andinformation you need.
I'm Shelley.
And I'm Kathy.
(00:44):
Getting into college today isa super complicated process.
It often begins in middle school.
If that isn't daunting enough,many people can look forward to being
strapped with really hugebills after they graduate from college.
So much so that it keeps themfrom buying homes or they delay starting
a family.
According to USA Today,student loan debt in the United states
(01:06):
is over $1.7 trillion.
Yes, that's trillion.
And that amount has tripled injust 15 years.
The American association ofUniversity Women say women borrow
more for their education,holding almost 2/3 of the total student
loan debt.
It doesn't have to be that way.
Dr. Pamela Ellis is known asthe education doctor.
(01:28):
She's an award winningeducator and best selling author
of what to Know Before They Go.
She helps parents and studentsavoid overpaying.
In the past five years, 95% ofDr. Ellis students have been admitted
to their top choice collegesand received an average of $75,000
in scholarships.
Her mission is to guidestudents and parents through the
(01:50):
complex college prep processand get knowledgeable about what
they should be paying for college.
Dr. Ellis is with us today tooffer her valuable insight.
Welcome Dr. Ellis.
Thank you for being on theshow with us.
Thank you so much.
Shelly and Kathy, I am reallyexcited to talk with you today and
(02:10):
I want to start out by justsharing with your listeners just
how lucky they are to have youas host.
And you are both very graciousand really have some lively conversations
that I've enjoyed over the years.
So just thank you so much andI want to remind your listeners to
(02:31):
go out and do their five star review.
Well, thank you, Dr. Ellis.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You deserve it.
Oh, that means so much comingfrom you and we really are honored
to have you on the show.
You know, you are providingsuch a life saving service to students
and parents.
The cost of college hasreached a crisis level.
(02:55):
What got you started in all of this?
Oh, wow.
Really?
What got me started in this isbecoming a mom and knowing some of
the challenges that my kidswould face as they navigate through
school is really what led me here.
(03:17):
And when I just became soobsessed with figuring out how to
help them with navigating theeducation system, I decided to go
back to Stanford and get adoctorate degree.
And my whole life's work isaround high school to college transition.
So what supports students withnavigating through high school and
(03:42):
then going on to thrive in college?
It's so necessary.
And things have gotten so muchmore complicated.
How did college tuition get soout of control?
I mean, it's just mind boggling.
Yeah, it really is.
And I'll, you know, just sharewith you a quick story.
(04:02):
You know, when I was growingup and planning to go to college,
I applied to all every collegeI could apply to because I was so
worried that I wouldn't get in anywhere.
And when my mom dropped me offat college, she gave me $70 for the
(04:27):
first year.
Wow.
And let me tell you, I thoughtthat was great money.
So I got to the bookstore thenext day and my books for the first
quarter were $350.
Fast forward four years later,I graduated with just $10,000 in
(04:48):
debt.
That was it.
That was it.
And I just feel like, youknow, today there are still those
opportunities for students togo to college and to not be strapped
with a lot of the debt thatyou talked about in the opening.
And the thing about it is,yes, we see that tuition has certainly
(05:14):
increased over the years.
When we look at, you know,what the families are paying, though,
when you look at thosenumbers, you will see that the tuition
is really like a sticker price.
And there's only, you know,just less than 20% that are actually
(05:36):
paying the full price of college.
And so I think that's where weneed to look because then when we
look at the fact that thereare so many great colleges out there
that can be amazing fit foryour student, there's no reason that
you have to overpay or pay thefull amount.
(06:00):
There really isn't.
So it's a matter of doing yourhomework ahead of time.
Because I'm sure if peopledon't know their options, they end
up getting stuck with somehuge bills.
Yeah, they do.
It's not knowing the optionsand it's also not really preparing.
And like you mentioned, yes,it's daunting to think that you need
(06:23):
to start preparing, you know,as early as middle school.
But when we think about it interms of sports, you know, kids are
often doing sports andpreparing as early as middle school
so that they can play incollege or go on Professionally.
And so in the same regard withgoing to college, it's basic things
(06:45):
like learning how to selfadvocate and building those skills
of independence earlier on andsocial emotional wellness.
So some of those things canstart in middle school and then taking
all the classes that areneeded to be successful in college
(07:07):
and beyond, taking thoseclasses in high school that are important
to take.
And so those are some basicthings that can be done to support
students with having moreopportunities, options for college.
Really good to know.
Of course, that's where theyneed to have good guidance counselors
in school that are schooled inthis, too.
(07:28):
Yeah.
Yes.
And there are a lot of reallygreat guidance counselors out there
that can support students asthey are journeying through middle
school and high school.
Kathy, I was going to ask you,is tuition and debt for college and
Canada, as crazy as it is inthe United States, do you know?
(07:49):
It is.
It is.
I know Even back in 1996 whenI was attending nursing and being
a single mom and it wasincredibly difficult just to make
ends meet and try and like,like you were saying, those books
are insane.
Like the medical books.
And I, I was going to this,this college grant McEwen Community
(08:10):
College, where they have thenursing program and the.
I had eight classes and likejust a psychology book, the sociology
book, the anatomy book, the.
Just everything.
How do you.
It was very, very difficult.
And my student loan back then,it did add up.
I only got a little bit of agrant and it was crazy.
(08:32):
So, yes, it's very expensive.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
So what do parents need toknow about paying for college?
What's the truth behind all ofthe numbers?
I mean, the sticker price,like you said, people don't have
to pay that price.
I mean, we seem to be a lotmore knowledgeable when we go into
(08:52):
a car dealership that we can dicker.
Yeah.
And the thing about it is thatI always share with families something
that can really help them withgetting a sense for the priorities
of a college.
And that can be as simple asreading the president's letter to
(09:14):
get a sense for the kinds ofopportunities that are there at that
college, how they seethemselves, what the next few years
on the horizon looks like.
And so, for example, if thatcollege just opened a new nanotechnology
center and hired professors tobe there, they need students as well.
(09:38):
And so there is a strongchance that if your kid is interested
in that particular field ofstudy, there are scholarships behind
it.
And so that's one thing, andthat's pretty common across colleges,
that they will have Theseletters from the president.
But the other thing about itis, is looking at their financial
(10:02):
page to understand thescholarship opportunities, how they
award financial aid, what isthe average tuition that's actually
paid at the colleges, Gettinga sense for how do they address need
based awards and do they pay100% of need or is it only a portion
(10:27):
of what's needed?
But just understanding some ofthat terminology can really make
a difference.
And then as far as evenlooking at testing or what the college's
requirements are for testing,if they are test optional or if they
require testing, that can makea difference for your student and
(10:52):
making sure that they areprepping ahead of time and that they
will be submitting theirscores and what to do if their scores
aren't as high and how thatplays a role even in terms of scholarships,
because some scholarships areawarded based on test scores.
And so just understanding thatcan help with not overpaying.
(11:17):
But one of the key things thatI'll share is within our company,
what we do is we really lookat what's a good fit for students
and start with the student.
And so parents can do the samein terms of really talking with their
(11:39):
teen about who they are andwhat their plans are, finding out
their why for college.
And we look at five fitfactors that help us with doing that.
Match across the differentcolleges so that students are applying
to those colleges that are afit for them as opposed to just randomly
(12:04):
applying to colleges.
What are the five fit factors?
They are academic, social,financial, vocational and cultural.
So those five factors, andthey all fit together sometimes,
especially if we're looking atthe cost of attending college, we're
(12:26):
looking just at the financialpiece, but we're not looking at those
other factors that are goingto really play a role in their teen
thriving in college.
Sometimes the additional costsare incurred because students are
graduating later.
They're not finishing in fouryears, they're finishing in six or
(12:47):
beyond.
And so that certainly drivesit up as well because the colleges
have a four year program andoftentimes the money is for four
years, but it's not for six oreight years.
And then that's when you endup really paying out more.
If you're staying there longerthan the scholarship awards.
(13:10):
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Welcome back to Women Roadwarriors with Shelly Johnson and
Kathy Tak.
If you're enjoying thisinformative episode of Women Road
Warriors, I wanted to mentionKathy and I explore all kinds of
(14:37):
topics that will power you onthe road to success.
We feature a lot of expertinterviews, plus we feature celebrities
and women who've been trailblazers.
Please check out ourpodcast@womenroadwarriors.com and
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We're also available whereveryou listen to podcasts on on all
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(14:59):
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We want to help as many womenas possible.
If you've got a future collegeFreshman admission preparation now
(15:19):
starts in middle school, andthe price tag is sobering to get
into college.
USA Today says student debtnow tops 1.7 trillion, which has
tripled in 15 years.
The AAUW reports women carrynearly two thirds of all the student
debt.
That's staggering.
Dr. Pamela Ellis, theeducation doctor and author of what
(15:41):
to Know Before They Go, helpsfamilies avoid overpaying.
Over five years, 95% of herstudents got into their top choice
school with an average of$75,000 in scholarships.
She teaches students andparents what they need to know to
get college educated withoutgoing broke and get into the school
they really want.
It's a matter of gettingeducated before going for that degree,
(16:04):
Dr. Ellis there's so manythings that can drive up the cost
of college.
There's so many factors, too.
If somebody stays in a dorm,all of that adds up.
Do scholarships typicallycover dormitories or not?
They can, they can and yeah,they can.
In some cases, it's, you know,it's always applied to tuition first,
(16:28):
and then there may be creditsor balance left over to apply toward
room and board.
That gets pricey.
Even if a student opts to liveoff campus in an apartment, the landlords
around the campus tend tocharge a ton of money.
Yeah.
(16:48):
Because they know they can.
Yeah.
And sometimes they charge alittle less.
So some students may live offcampus because it's cheaper to live
off campus.
Sure.
They don't have to incur themeal plans.
I think that's the other thingthat really adds to it, is the meal
plan.
But if you can cook, you havean apartment off campus, then that
(17:09):
is a lot less expensive thandoing a meal plan on campus.
I was cooking impaired, so myfirst year, I did live in a dorm
where they provided meals.
And when I finally got anapartment, my second year in college
is kind of like, wow, I haveto fix this myself.
Where's my mom?
I know, right?
(17:32):
Yeah, I remember the same thing.
And my first year of college,oh, my goodness.
The meal plans didn't includethe weekends.
And it was really tough attimes to get off campus just to have
a meal.
And so you really have to bemindful of just what's included.
(17:55):
Sure.
I lived off a lot of pot pies,ramen noodles, that kind of stuff.
Yeah, me too.
PBJ's, something quick and easy.
Well, that wasn't.
Food wasn't a priority.
I mean, I wanted to have abetter tube of lipstick or something
like.
That, or a pair of shoes, youknow, a lot of pizza.
A lot of pizza.
(18:16):
For sure.
The priorities of being 18, 19years old, it's like, okay, but it's
just a matter of rite ofpassage and growing up, too.
Exactly.
So what do parents and teensneed to do to qualify for those scholarships
and get into college?
I mean, it's pressure on boththe students as well as the parents.
(18:36):
And it starts early.
It is.
And you know, something aboutit is, you know, as I mentioned earlier
before, taking four years ofall the core classes can cover you
in so many ways.
And I'll give you an exampleof this.
One of my students, actually,this is the case with a couple of
(18:59):
different students, but withthis young man, he was taking Spanish
and just felt like he reallywasn't doing well in Spanish.
And plus he felt like, oh, I'minterested in film.
And so it's not going to matter.
And no matter how many timeswe talked about it, he was still
(19:20):
pretty clear that he did notwant to continue in Spanish for junior
or senior year.
Lo and behold, one of thecolleges that he is most interested
in in his field of study, theyrequire four years of a foreign language
(19:41):
to be admissible.
And so right off the bat, thatreally takes that college off his
list in terms of being a greatcandidate for it.
And so when we talk about, youknow, taking the classes all four
years, it just means thatit'll give students a lot more options,
(20:05):
just a lot more options interms of colleges where they will
be admissible.
And so something as simple asthat can help students as well.
And oftentimes, you know,students, you know, they maybe they
say, oh, I don't want to be,you know, in stem, so I'm not going
to take a science, you know,in junior year.
(20:27):
And I say, no, go ahead andtake it, take it for all four years
and show that you arechallenging yourself and take advantage
of the opportunities that yourhigh school offers.
And that's a way to give themmore options for college.
Because there are so manygreat colleges out there.
(20:48):
And even though we hear somuch about colleges that have very
low admissions rate, there aretons more that have very high admissions
rate.
And so they have money,scholarships available for students
and really eager to support students.
And so it's a matter of beingin a position where you can have
(21:13):
those options.
What's the difference betweenscholarships and financial aid?
That's a great question.
Yeah, I was thinking about that.
So thank you, Shelly, forasking that.
I'm like, wait a minute, like,what is the difference?
That's a great question.
And oftentimes we use them,you hear them used interchangeably.
I think of scholarships asbeing merit based and financial aid
(21:39):
is need based.
And so usually you'll have tocomplete some forms, some financial
forms to qualify for financialaid, but a student's application
can qualify them for scholarships.
Okay, can you get both?
(21:59):
Absolutely.
And when families get both,it's like a double dip.
Oh, it would be wonderful.
I mean, that would be a huge bonus.
I mean, you could almost sailthrough college if you have that.
Almost debt free.
(22:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely you could.
And so, yes, you can get both.
Do you have a theory on whytuition's so high?
I mean, it just seems like inthe past 30, 40 years it's just gone
up like a really fast logarithm.
There's been a lot that's beenadded to the colleges over the years
(22:41):
and I don't want to call anyof them out out in this way, but
I have gone on over 500 campus visits.
And there are a few collegesthat I visited and they had a lazy
river.
They had some amazing facilities.
(23:02):
And there's a cost to that.
And so that's part of it.
The facilities, the salaries,having really good labs and other
resources.
So that's what I think hascontributed to it the most in terms
(23:26):
of the tuition.
Well, when you drive aroundcertain neighborhoods in the United
States and I don't know if itis the same in Canada, Kathy, Some
of these middle school andhigh school buildings look like country
clubs.
It's like, wow.
Yes, some of them do.
It's just amazing.
It's like, wow.
My high school didn't looklike that.
(23:48):
Yeah, I know.
Mine was all decrepit and rundown and like, what?
Right, right.
I remember my high school kindof grew by leaps and bounds and over
the years and one section ofit was from the 1930s.
I remember thinking, will Ifall through the floor?
Just because to me that seemed ancient.
It's like, wow, you know, look.
(24:09):
Yeah.
And that does not impact thequality of your education.
It's the teacher, you know.
Well, the quality of life onthe campus, I say is certainly enhanced,
for sure.
Yeah.
And being able to have certainresources on campus makes a huge
(24:31):
difference in the quality oflife for students.
You know, being able to accesshealth care, mental health services,
all of the staffing that'sneeded for that.
And so there's a lot that canmake a difference for students lives
and being able to just stay ontop of their assignments and coursework,
(24:58):
just having everythingavailable there on campus for them.
Totally agree.
Well, a good health center,that's important.
It really is.
Think about just all of thestress that's relieved when you can
go to a Pilates class or atrack to run on.
It makes a huge difference.
(25:19):
I mean, when I went back tograd school, I had three little ones
under five and every quarter Ihad some type of exercise class.
And I just felt like that wasmy self care, that was my time to
really unwind and make surethat I was taking care of myself.
(25:43):
Because, you know, especiallyas women and moms and daughters and
aunties, we wear so many hatsand oftentimes don't take care of
ourselves because we puteveryone else first.
So yeah, it really made adifference for me that they had those
(26:03):
resources available on campusfor non traditional students.
I know a lot of the women wholisten to our show may be thinking
about going back to school andfinances are still a very big consideration.
Are there scholarshipsavailable for somebody to say, get
their Bachelor's if theyhaven't gotten it or even go get
their master's degree.
(26:25):
I would say Shelly, more sofor bachelor's I've seen and a little
bit less so for master's.
Sometimes those are covered bytheir company.
Their employer may offerresources for that.
And sometimes there are somecompanies that also offer scholarships
(26:51):
for starting a second careeror going back to school.
It's not as many that I've seen.
They're kind of lagging inthat area when you think about it,
because so many people have topivot today and go into maybe even
a whole new field.
Yes.
And the thing about it ismaybe they do it in a less traditional
(27:16):
way.
And what I mean by that is I'msitting here at my desk looking at
a course guide.
There are a lot of communitycolleges that offer programs and
have courses that support youwith pivoting into another career
field.
I was just looking at thiscourse guide for a local community
(27:41):
college in my area becausethey have online courses as well
as in person courses.
And one of them is inprogramming and information technology
and computer apps.
And so there's a lot that youcould do in your own community at
the local colleges that arevery affordable, very affordable.
(28:06):
And the other way I think toois talking with your employer about
some type of support withgoing back to school.
Sure.
A lot of students may also optfor VO Tech.
They may not necessarilyqualify for college.
That's not something theyreally want to do.
Are there scholarshipsavailable for VO Tech programs too?
(28:29):
Little bit less so.
I haven't seen as many for thevocational areas.
One of the students that I metwith recently, she is interested
in automotive and I'd be hardpressed to find something in that
(28:52):
area to support herscholarship wise.
And so I don't see as many,unfortunately short sighted.
Again, they need to plan forthe future.
And of course, when you lookat automotive, I think you probably
have to have almostcertification, at least in computers,
because everything's computerized.
(29:15):
There are likely somecompanies, some businesses that have
worked out a way for studentsto get that type of training.
Some of it may be on the jobwhere they are working with the company
while they're going back to school.
(29:36):
And that makes it a win winfor the companies.
So I just find it hard tobelieve that everyone who does some
type of vocational traininghas to pay for it out of pocket.
I feel like, especially forcompanies that may be short in terms
of their hiring needs, thatthey are willing to meet that new
(30:03):
employee halfway in a senseand pay for their education at the
same time that they're workingwith them or maybe they agree to
work with them once they finish.
There are ways for it to work out.
Yes, there are ways for it towork out.
Kathy, do you know what'savailable in Canada?
(30:24):
I know that you had quite atraining program with the pivot you
did in your career.
Well, that's the thing.
They have programs here inCanada that help or enable women
mostly.
I hate to say that, but Imean, I kind of feel sorry for the
guys.
But help women developthemselves into traditional, non
(30:48):
traditional careers that womenwould not normally think of getting
into.
And like, the program iscalled Women Building Futures.
And now it's pretty much it'sgotten big enough that it's Canada
wide.
But when I first started in2012, it was only in Edmonton, Alberta
and Calgary.
And what it is, it's companiesthat believe in sponsoring programs
(31:12):
and developing programs toassist women to get into the non
traditional trades becausethere's barely any.
So what I'm talking about iselectrician, plumbing, carpentry
journey woman, craneoperators, heavy equipment operators,
and these programs.
Like, I was very fortunatewhen I couldn't go back to nursing
(31:35):
and I needed a career change.
I was 42.
And I mean, how do you changecareers when.
When that's all you have?
I mean, at the time I wasdesperate enough that I'll go pump
gas just to get a, just to geta paycheck.
But reality speaking, I mean,I have.
Well, Shelly knows I haveeight hamsters and one wheel in this
noggin.
It just doesn't stop.
So I need a career, right?
(31:55):
I need something like I can'tjust go, you know, be a teller.
So I went to a career planningworkshop which was free.
And they helped guide you andsteer you in a direction that you
might not normally think thatyou're qualified for.
And I really took it to heartbecause what they did is they took
into account your personality,your, you know, what, what is it
(32:19):
that you're geared towards,you know, what makes you tick, what
doesn't?
What?
Because you put me in an office.
Setting and it's, it's.
You may as well just shoot me.
Like I.
So Shelly knows too that Istruggle with computer.
I started thinking thatinstead of stopping myself or limiting
myself, that, wait a minute,you know, I don't have to see the
(32:41):
dream at the end.
Is it possible?
I'm like, well, I can drive a truck.
I'm a good, I'm a good truck.
I'm a good driver.
I used to Race cars.
And the day I went in,ExxonMobil, the biggest oil and gas
company in the world, happenedto be there, paying for 16 women
to take a 12 week heavyequipment operator course.
That course was $18,000.
(33:02):
I mean, I was broke, I was in recovery.
I mean, how do you come.
Had I not had that program, Iwouldn't have been able to change
my life the way I did.
And it turns out that, youknow, during the course of this training,
because 158 women applied, butthey only paid for 16.
And I got picked and everypiece of equipment I was getting
on, I'm like, oh my God, I cando this.
(33:23):
Like, I'm good at this, I cando this.
And that shifted everything.
So now everywhere I go, Imean, I encourage women to not limit
themselves to an office job ornot everybody's meant to be a doctor
or a lawyer or whatever, thatthere's other, there's other avenues
and there's if you just look.
Because if you close yourselfoff to opportunities, you're never
(33:45):
going to change.
You're never going to find theone thing that might be right for
you.
Well said.
I love it.
I love it.
And you know, just when youwere sharing, Kathy, it reminded
me when you were talking aboutthe assessments that you did, the
(34:05):
personality and other tools tohelp with thinking about career options.
That's what we're doing withour students as well.
Because even, you know, forteenagers, sometimes they've been
told by their parents orothers, you know, this is what you're
going to be when you grow upand haven't really had an opportunity
(34:29):
to think about it forthemselves or to have some of those
tools that can help them withlearning about other opportunities
that they may have never even considered.
Because we all grow up hearingabout a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer
kind of thing, but not all ofthese other opportunities that are
(34:51):
out there.
And so it really opens their eyes.
It really opens their eyes andjust believing in them too, you know,
when you have highexpectations for students and openly
saying that yes, you could,you can do this, made all the difference
(35:11):
in the world.
And so that was really transformational.
If somebody believes in thestudents and they believe in themselves,
the sky's the limit when youthink about it.
Stay tuned for more of womenRoad warriors coming up.
(35:31):
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
I have one question for you.
Do you want to stop worryingabout the irs?
If the answer is yes, thenlook no further.
I've been around for years.
I've helped countless peopleacross the country and My success
rate speaks for itself.
So now you know where to findgood, honest help with your tax problems.
What are you waiting for?
If you owe more than $10,000to the IRS or haven't filed in years,
(35:53):
call me now at 888-557-4020 orgo to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free
consultation and get your life back.
Industry Movement TruckingMoves America Forward is telling
the story of the industry.
Our safety champions, thewomen of trucking, independent contractors,
the next generation oftruckers and more help us promote
(36:15):
the best of our industry.
Share your story and what youlove about trucking.
Share images of a momentyou're proud of and join us on social
media.
Learn more@truckingmovesamerica.com.
Welcome back to Women Road.
Warriors with Shelly Johnsonand Kathy Tucaro.
(36:41):
Got a future?
College freshman prep startsearlier than you think and the price
tag is real.
USA Today puts student debtover $1.7 trillion in the United
States.
It's tripled in 15 years.
AAUW says women carry nearly2/3 of that debt.
Dr. Pamela Ellis, theeducation doctor and author of what
(37:03):
to Know Before They Go showsfamilies how to pay less and choose
smart.
In five years, 95% of herstudents hit their top choice schools
and average $75,000 in scholarships.
She gives a clear step by stepplan so students self advocate, secure
aid and dodge crushing debt.
She offers a blueprint for success.
(37:25):
Dr. Ellis, you open up so manynew horizons for students.
So it's a matter of looking atthe possibilities.
And Dr. Ellis, you're doingthat for families, the parents as
well as the children.
Because really, when you thinkabout it as a teenager, I'm not sure
all teenagers are thinking,what do I really want to be as an
adult?
(37:46):
They can't even fathom thenext 20 years because they're not
20 yet.
I mean, that seems like alifetime away, you know.
Yeah, it all seems so far away.
And a lot of times there's somuch noise, so many other distractions.
Oh gosh.
Sometimes we as adults taketime to do, like to sit down and
(38:08):
think about what is ourpurpose in life.
And so for the students, we'reproviding them the tools to start
to think about that and toreally think about what they want,
what they like, what they enjoy.
And it's okay to do somethingthat they want to do and not something
(38:34):
that everyone else is takingtelling them they have to do or should
do.
And it's invaluable.
And just like thetransformational experience that
Kathy had.
That's what we want for our students.
And one of the things that wedo as part of our program is we curate
(38:58):
a list of summer programs for them.
And so just in the same waythat Eddie is offering the opportunity
for three days for students tocome and try out the heavy equipment,
that's what a summer program does.
And I have to share this storyof our student John.
(39:20):
He was, you know, always beentold he's going to do engineering
because he's great at math.
And he did a summer programand let me tell you, this program
was only a week long and hewas going into his junior year of
(39:42):
high school at the time.
When he came back from thatprogram, he was like, Dr. Pamela,
I am not going to be an engineer.
And I was like, great, that isgreat to know.
Now he knew that that was notwhat he wanted to do at all.
I mean he just did not enjoythe experience.
(40:05):
And he was doing somethingwhere he was learning about different
types of engineeringdisciplines and just thought it was
no, no way did it fit him.
And it, that kind ofexperience just gave him a chance
to sit for himself what thatwas like and really supported him
(40:27):
with then looking at otheravenues and thinking about what he
really wanted to do as opposedto doing something because someone
else suggested it to him.
That's really forward thinking.
I don't recall any of theschools offering that kind of program
when I was getting ready to graduate.
(40:49):
I know the community collegeallowed you as a student in high
school to attend college thereand you actually, if you got some
credits, it would apply toyour high school graduation.
That was kind of cool.
Yeah.
And they still do that a lothere in the US around the country
they have those types ofprograms that they refer to often
(41:10):
as college credit plus.
And that is one way for sure.
And I highly, highly recommendso summer programs because they can
really help students learn howto be independent, build some self
advocacy skills and alsocareer exploration.
(41:34):
And it's in a, an environmentthat's low stakes and it's really
about exploring.
So you haven't, you know,really invested a whole lot and it
gives them something creativeto do in the summertime, you know,
because kids in the summeroftentimes may just be hanging out
(41:55):
and that's about it.
But this gives them somethinga little bit more constructive, help
build their interpersonalskills as well.
And I love them.
I love them.
I actually, even though thiswas many years ago, I did a summer
business program and then Idid a summer pre med program when
(42:17):
I was in high school.
And they helped me tremendously.
They helped me tremendously.
You offer a lot for parentsand students.
Do you have maybe somenuggets, maybe a good template on
what parents and students needto think about in terms of college
education or direction?
Yes, I do, and I would love tooffer it to your listeners.
(42:42):
What I have is the CollegeConfidence Blueprint.
And what it is, is a guide forwhat, what to do each year of high
school so that you arepositioned not only for your teen,
is not only position foradmissions, but also scholarships
(43:02):
as well.
And it also includes acommunication guide because oftentimes
there is a little bit oftension but.
Or stress or frustration whenparents are talking with their kids
about college.
Sometimes their kids give themthe silent treatment.
And so these communicationtips can help with having that conversation.
(43:24):
And so all they have to do issend me the keyword Blueprint25 to
my box on LinkedIn and that'sDr. Pamela Ellis, D R P A M E L A
E L L I S and I will send itright over to them.
Blueprint 25.
(43:45):
Thank you so much.
What a great template.
I wish I'd had that.
Yeah, no kidding, eh?
Right.
Well, your listeners can haveit now.
I, I still wonder what I'mgoing to be when I grow up, you know?
I know, me too.
I know.
I think I should have had abetter game plan because I think
(44:06):
you end up taking a lot ofcollege classes too, that you have
to fill so many credit hours.
You may take a class thatisn't necessarily going to even fit
with what you ought to do fora living.
Yes.
And students end up wastingmoney on a lot of classes that, well,
maybe because they couldn'tget into another class, they end
up taking a class that just iswithin the general matriculation
(44:29):
requirements.
You have these big words andall of that.
It isn't something that isn'tis going to help them necessarily,
but they have to take it, you know?
You know, I am chuckling asyou are saying that because I certainly
thought that that was the casewhen I was in college.
And I just remember having theidea that I'm just going to major
(44:56):
in what I enjoy and not worryabout it.
I'm not going to worry about it.
I ended up majoring in linguistics.
One of the classes I had totake was called Artificial Intelligence
and Linguistics.
Who would have ever thoughtthat I would know anything or ever
(45:20):
use anything with artificial intelligence?
Because it was the first fullname back then.
And then I worked for thisartificial intelligence publishing
company.
They Liked the fact that I hadhad that course.
So I worked with them.
They published AI textbooksback then.
And this was in the late 80s.
(45:42):
Fast forward.
I was interviewing for aposition in investment banking, and
I was.
Was having this interview withthe guy.
And let me tell you, Shellyand Kathy, this interview was not
going well at all.
I could tell that this guyfelt like he wasn't.
(46:02):
He was wasting his timemeeting with me.
And so he asked me somethingabout my major in college, because
he's used to having people whowould major in finance or business.
But, you know, myundergraduate institution doesn't
have a business major.
(46:24):
Undergrad, I majored in linguistics.
So I started talking with himabout it and what I had learned from
it.
And let me tell you, thatconversation turned completely around,
and he ended up being mybiggest advocate.
Yes, he did.
And that was really the firsttime I had used anything I had learned
(46:49):
in linguistics.
But now fast forward today,and so much of what I learned then
that I never thought I wouldapply again.
I mean, I've been using it andit's made such a difference.
And I think that oftentimes inliberal arts, what they're preparing
(47:11):
you for is to think creatively.
They're teaching you how towrite, to do research, and have these
skills that can be appliedbroadly because you don't know what
the next two to three yearsare going to look like.
And so that's exactly what itdid for me.
(47:31):
And I've had my business nowfor over 15 years, and I've been
using AI my entire business life.
I've worked remotely for over25 years.
And so because I've alwaysbeen remote, you know, I've had to
use technology and becomfortable with AI because I was
(47:58):
remote.
That was what I envisioned.
And it's been that way for solong now.
And so when everythinghappened a few years ago with the
pandemic, I was already set upbecause it had been so longstanding
that I'd been using AI andusing technology to work virtually.
(48:22):
You had to step up on otherpeople who hadn't been doing that.
Yeah, well, it was no surprisefor me in terms of how to do it.
And I've always lovedexperimenting with technology.
And when I saw what companieswere doing back 15 years ago when
I started my business, I justthought, wow, I'm going to try this
(48:43):
out.
This looks great.
And so here we are.
You never know what you'regoing to learn that you can use again.
You know, I. I kept themajority of my textbooks from college.
I have Used them.
I have looked up stuff.
Some of it may be a littleoutdated, but it's like, oh, that's
right.
Let me look this up.
Exactly, exactly.
(49:04):
Or you have this littlefactoid that comes floating in your
head.
It's like, oh, that's right.
I remember that from that exam.
Oh, I hated that class.
You know, you wonder, wheredid that come from?
But, yeah, that's where itcame from, that little kernel.
So you can help parents andkids in many different ways here.
Where do people find you?
(49:25):
Wow.
They find me usually through aspeaking engagement, referral from
another family, or online.
Okay.
Those are the three ways.
I am on LinkedIn and share alot of resources there.
(49:45):
And our website iscompasscollege advisory.com and they can
certainly reach us there.
I also seetheeducationdoctor.com Is that another
way to reach you?
It is.
It is.
So either one, what are thewebsites again?
It's theeducationdoctor.comand what was the other one you mentioned?
(50:06):
Compasscollegeadvisory.com.
Terrific.
Well, I highly recommendpeople reach out to you because navigating
college admission, wow, that'sa daunting process.
I mean, that's almost biggerthan getting a mortgage.
It is a daunting process forsure, but it doesn't have to be.
(50:26):
Just as you said at thebeginning, it doesn't have to be.
Thank you, Dr. Ellis, for allyou do, and I appreciate you coming.
We appreciate you coming onthe show.
Thank you so much.
I appreciated being on the show.
Thank you.
Thank you both so, so much.
I appreciate all that you'redoing and just how you're empowering
(50:46):
and inspiring.
Thank you.
Yes, thank you, Dr. Ellis.
We really appreciate that.
We hope you've enjoyed thislatest episode.
And if you want to hear moreepisodes of Women Road warriors or
learn more about our show, besure to check out womenroadwarriors.com
and please follow us on social media.
And don't forget to subscribeto our podcast on our website.
(51:09):
We also have a selection ofpodcasts just for women.
They're a series of podcastsfrom different podcasters.
So if you're in the mood forwomen's podcasts, just click the
Power network tab onwomenroadwarriors.com youm'll have
a variety of shows to listento anytime you want to.
Podcasts Made for Women WomenRoad warriors is on all the major
(51:30):
podcast channels like Apple,Spotify, Amazon, Audible, YouTube
and others.
Check us out and please followus wherever you listen to podcasts.
Thanks for listening.
You've been listening to WomenRoad warriors.
With Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
If you want to be a guest onthe show or have a topic.
(51:52):
Or feedback, email us@sjohnsonomenroadwarriors.com.
This is Women Road warriorswith Shelly.
Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
From the corporate office tothe cab of a truck, they're here
to inspire and empower womenin all professions.
So gear down, sit back and enjoy.
(00:23):
Welcome.
We're an award winning showdedicated to empowering women in
every profession throughinspiring stories and expert insights.
No topics off limits.
On our show, we power women onthe road to success with expert and
celebrity interviews andinformation you need.
I'm Shelley.
And I'm Kathy.
(00:44):
Getting into college today isa super complicated process.
It often begins in middle school.
If that isn't daunting enough,many people can look forward to being
strapped with really hugebills after they graduate from college.
So much so that it keeps themfrom buying homes or they delay starting
a family.
According to USA Today,student loan debt in the United states
(01:06):
is over $1.7 trillion.
Yes, that's trillion.
And that amount has tripled injust 15 years.
The American association ofUniversity Women say women borrow
more for their education,holding almost 2/3 of the total student
loan debt.
It doesn't have to be that way.
Dr. Pamela Ellis is known asthe education doctor.
(01:28):
She's an award winningeducator and best selling author
of what to Know Before They Go.
She helps parents and studentsavoid overpaying.
In the past five years, 95% ofDr. Ellis students have been admitted
to their top choice collegesand received an average of $75,000
in scholarships.
Her mission is to guidestudents and parents through the
(01:50):
complex college prep processand get knowledgeable about what
they should be paying for college.
Dr. Ellis is with us today tooffer her valuable insight.
Welcome Dr. Ellis.
Thank you for being on theshow with us.
Thank you so much.
Shelly and Kathy, I am reallyexcited to talk with you today and
(02:10):
I want to start out by justsharing with your listeners just
how lucky they are to have youas host.
And you are both very graciousand really have some lively conversations
that I've enjoyed over the years.
So just thank you so much andI want to remind your listeners to
(02:31):
go out and do their five star review.
Well, thank you, Dr. Ellis.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
You deserve it.
Oh, that means so much comingfrom you and we really are honored
to have you on the show.
You know, you are providingsuch a life saving service to students
and parents.
The cost of college hasreached a crisis level.
(02:55):
What got you started in all of this?
Oh, wow.
Really?
What got me started in this isbecoming a mom and knowing some of
the challenges that my kidswould face as they navigate through
school is really what led me here.
(03:17):
And when I just became soobsessed with figuring out how to
help them with navigating theeducation system, I decided to go
back to Stanford and get adoctorate degree.
And my whole life's work isaround high school to college transition.
So what supports students withnavigating through high school and
(03:42):
then going on to thrive in college?
It's so necessary.
And things have gotten so muchmore complicated.
How did college tuition get soout of control?
I mean, it's just mind boggling.
Yeah, it really is.
And I'll, you know, just sharewith you a quick story.
(04:02):
You know, when I was growingup and planning to go to college,
I applied to all every collegeI could apply to because I was so
worried that I wouldn't get in anywhere.
And when my mom dropped me offat college, she gave me $70 for the
(04:27):
first year.
Wow.
And let me tell you, I thoughtthat was great money.
So I got to the bookstore thenext day and my books for the first
quarter were $350.
Fast forward four years later,I graduated with just $10,000 in
(04:48):
debt.
That was it.
That was it.
And I just feel like, youknow, today there are still those
opportunities for students togo to college and to not be strapped
with a lot of the debt thatyou talked about in the opening.
And the thing about it is,yes, we see that tuition has certainly
(05:14):
increased over the years.
When we look at, you know,what the families are paying, though,
when you look at thosenumbers, you will see that the tuition
is really like a sticker price.
And there's only, you know,just less than 20% that are actually
(05:36):
paying the full price of college.
And so I think that's where weneed to look because then when we
look at the fact that thereare so many great colleges out there
that can be amazing fit foryour student, there's no reason that
you have to overpay or pay thefull amount.
(06:00):
There really isn't.
So it's a matter of doing yourhomework ahead of time.
Because I'm sure if peopledon't know their options, they end
up getting stuck with somehuge bills.
Yeah, they do.
It's not knowing the optionsand it's also not really preparing.
And like you mentioned, yes,it's daunting to think that you need
(06:23):
to start preparing, you know,as early as middle school.
But when we think about it interms of sports, you know, kids are
often doing sports andpreparing as early as middle school
so that they can play incollege or go on Professionally.
And so in the same regard withgoing to college, it's basic things
(06:45):
like learning how to selfadvocate and building those skills
of independence earlier on andsocial emotional wellness.
So some of those things canstart in middle school and then taking
all the classes that areneeded to be successful in college
(07:07):
and beyond, taking thoseclasses in high school that are important
to take.
And so those are some basicthings that can be done to support
students with having moreopportunities, options for college.
Really good to know.
Of course, that's where theyneed to have good guidance counselors
in school that are schooled inthis, too.
(07:28):
Yeah.
Yes.
And there are a lot of reallygreat guidance counselors out there
that can support students asthey are journeying through middle
school and high school.
Kathy, I was going to ask you,is tuition and debt for college and
Canada, as crazy as it is inthe United States, do you know?
(07:49):
It is.
It is.
I know Even back in 1996 whenI was attending nursing and being
a single mom and it wasincredibly difficult just to make
ends meet and try and like,like you were saying, those books
are insane.
Like the medical books.
And I, I was going to this,this college grant McEwen Community
(08:10):
College, where they have thenursing program and the.
I had eight classes and likejust a psychology book, the sociology
book, the anatomy book, the.
Just everything.
How do you.
It was very, very difficult.
And my student loan back then,it did add up.
I only got a little bit of agrant and it was crazy.
(08:32):
So, yes, it's very expensive.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
So what do parents need toknow about paying for college?
What's the truth behind all ofthe numbers?
I mean, the sticker price,like you said, people don't have
to pay that price.
I mean, we seem to be a lotmore knowledgeable when we go into
(08:52):
a car dealership that we can dicker.
Yeah.
And the thing about it is thatI always share with families something
that can really help them withgetting a sense for the priorities
of a college.
And that can be as simple asreading the president's letter to
(09:14):
get a sense for the kinds ofopportunities that are there at that
college, how they seethemselves, what the next few years
on the horizon looks like.
And so, for example, if thatcollege just opened a new nanotechnology
center and hired professors tobe there, they need students as well.
(09:38):
And so there is a strongchance that if your kid is interested
in that particular field ofstudy, there are scholarships behind
it.
And so that's one thing, andthat's pretty common across colleges,
that they will have Theseletters from the president.
But the other thing about itis, is looking at their financial
(10:02):
page to understand thescholarship opportunities, how they
award financial aid, what isthe average tuition that's actually
paid at the colleges, Gettinga sense for how do they address need
based awards and do they pay100% of need or is it only a portion
(10:27):
of what's needed?
But just understanding some ofthat terminology can really make
a difference.
And then as far as evenlooking at testing or what the college's
requirements are for testing,if they are test optional or if they
require testing, that can makea difference for your student and
(10:52):
making sure that they areprepping ahead of time and that they
will be submitting theirscores and what to do if their scores
aren't as high and how thatplays a role even in terms of scholarships,
because some scholarships areawarded based on test scores.
And so just understanding thatcan help with not overpaying.
(11:17):
But one of the key things thatI'll share is within our company,
what we do is we really lookat what's a good fit for students
and start with the student.
And so parents can do the samein terms of really talking with their
(11:39):
teen about who they are andwhat their plans are, finding out
their why for college.
And we look at five fitfactors that help us with doing that.
Match across the differentcolleges so that students are applying
to those colleges that are afit for them as opposed to just randomly
(12:04):
applying to colleges.
What are the five fit factors?
They are academic, social,financial, vocational and cultural.
So those five factors, andthey all fit together sometimes,
especially if we're looking atthe cost of attending college, we're
(12:26):
looking just at the financialpiece, but we're not looking at those
other factors that are goingto really play a role in their teen
thriving in college.
Sometimes the additional costsare incurred because students are
graduating later.
They're not finishing in fouryears, they're finishing in six or
(12:47):
beyond.
And so that certainly drivesit up as well because the colleges
have a four year program andoftentimes the money is for four
years, but it's not for six oreight years.
And then that's when you endup really paying out more.
If you're staying there longerthan the scholarship awards.
(13:10):
Sure.
Stay tuned for more of womenroad warriors coming up.
Dean Michael, the tax doctor here.
I have one question for you.
Do you want to stop worryingabout the irs?
If the answer is yes, thenlook no further.
I've been around for years.
(13:31):
I've helped countless peopleacross the country and my success
rate speaks for itself.
So now you know what to findgood, honest help with your tax problems.
What are you waiting for?
If you owe more than $10,000to the IRS or haven't filed in years,
call me now at 888-557-4020 orgo to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free
consultation and get your life back.
(13:53):
Industry Movement TruckingMoves America Forward is telling
the story of the industry.
Our safety champions, thewomen of trucking, independent contractors,
the next generation oftruckers, and more.
Help us promote the best ofour industry.
Share your story and what youlove about trucking, Share images
of a moment you're proud ofand join us on social media.
(14:14):
Learn more@truckingmovesamerica.com.
Welcome back to Women Roadwarriors with Shelly Johnson and
Kathy Tak.
If you're enjoying thisinformative episode of Women Road
Warriors, I wanted to mentionKathy and I explore all kinds of
(14:37):
topics that will power you onthe road to success.
We feature a lot of expertinterviews, plus we feature celebrities
and women who've been trailblazers.
Please check out ourpodcast@womenroadwarriors.com and
click on our Episodes page.
We're also available whereveryou listen to podcasts on on all
the major podcast channelslike Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon
(14:59):
Music, Audible, you name it.
Check us out and bookmark our podcast.
Also, don't forget to followus on social media.
We're on Twitter, Facebook,Instagram, Pinterest, LinkedIn, YouTube
and other sites and tellothers about us.
We want to help as many womenas possible.
If you've got a future collegeFreshman admission preparation now
(15:19):
starts in middle school, andthe price tag is sobering to get
into college.
USA Today says student debtnow tops 1.7 trillion, which has
tripled in 15 years.
The AAUW reports women carrynearly two thirds of all the student
debt.
That's staggering.
Dr. Pamela Ellis, theeducation doctor and author of what
(15:41):
to Know Before They Go, helpsfamilies avoid overpaying.
Over five years, 95% of herstudents got into their top choice
school with an average of$75,000 in scholarships.
She teaches students andparents what they need to know to
get college educated withoutgoing broke and get into the school
they really want.
It's a matter of gettingeducated before going for that degree,
(16:04):
Dr. Ellis there's so manythings that can drive up the cost
of college.
There's so many factors, too.
If somebody stays in a dorm,all of that adds up.
Do scholarships typicallycover dormitories or not?
They can, they can and yeah,they can.
In some cases, it's, you know,it's always applied to tuition first,
(16:28):
and then there may be creditsor balance left over to apply toward
room and board.
That gets pricey.
Even if a student opts to liveoff campus in an apartment, the landlords
around the campus tend tocharge a ton of money.
Yeah.
(16:48):
Because they know they can.
Yeah.
And sometimes they charge alittle less.
So some students may live offcampus because it's cheaper to live
off campus.
Sure.
They don't have to incur themeal plans.
I think that's the other thingthat really adds to it, is the meal
plan.
But if you can cook, you havean apartment off campus, then that
(17:09):
is a lot less expensive thandoing a meal plan on campus.
I was cooking impaired, so myfirst year, I did live in a dorm
where they provided meals.
And when I finally got anapartment, my second year in college
is kind of like, wow, I haveto fix this myself.
Where's my mom?
I know, right?
(17:32):
Yeah, I remember the same thing.
And my first year of college,oh, my goodness.
The meal plans didn't includethe weekends.
And it was really tough attimes to get off campus just to have
a meal.
And so you really have to bemindful of just what's included.
(17:55):
Sure.
I lived off a lot of pot pies,ramen noodles, that kind of stuff.
Yeah, me too.
PBJ's, something quick and easy.
Well, that wasn't.
Food wasn't a priority.
I mean, I wanted to have abetter tube of lipstick or something
like.
That, or a pair of shoes, youknow, a lot of pizza.
A lot of pizza.
(18:16):
For sure.
The priorities of being 18, 19years old, it's like, okay, but it's
just a matter of rite ofpassage and growing up, too.
Exactly.
So what do parents and teensneed to do to qualify for those scholarships
and get into college?
I mean, it's pressure on boththe students as well as the parents.
(18:36):
And it starts early.
It is.
And you know, something aboutit is, you know, as I mentioned earlier
before, taking four years ofall the core classes can cover you
in so many ways.
And I'll give you an exampleof this.
One of my students, actually,this is the case with a couple of
(18:59):
different students, but withthis young man, he was taking Spanish
and just felt like he reallywasn't doing well in Spanish.
And plus he felt like, oh, I'minterested in film.
And so it's not going to matter.
And no matter how many timeswe talked about it, he was still
(19:20):
pretty clear that he did notwant to continue in Spanish for junior
or senior year.
Lo and behold, one of thecolleges that he is most interested
in in his field of study, theyrequire four years of a foreign language
(19:41):
to be admissible.
And so right off the bat, thatreally takes that college off his
list in terms of being a greatcandidate for it.
And so when we talk about, youknow, taking the classes all four
years, it just means thatit'll give students a lot more options,
(20:05):
just a lot more options interms of colleges where they will
be admissible.
And so something as simple asthat can help students as well.
And oftentimes, you know,students, you know, they maybe they
say, oh, I don't want to be,you know, in stem, so I'm not going
to take a science, you know,in junior year.
(20:27):
And I say, no, go ahead andtake it, take it for all four years
and show that you arechallenging yourself and take advantage
of the opportunities that yourhigh school offers.
And that's a way to give themmore options for college.
Because there are so manygreat colleges out there.
(20:48):
And even though we hear somuch about colleges that have very
low admissions rate, there aretons more that have very high admissions
rate.
And so they have money,scholarships available for students
and really eager to support students.
And so it's a matter of beingin a position where you can have
(21:13):
those options.
What's the difference betweenscholarships and financial aid?
That's a great question.
Yeah, I was thinking about that.
So thank you, Shelly, forasking that.
I'm like, wait a minute, like,what is the difference?
That's a great question.
And oftentimes we use them,you hear them used interchangeably.
I think of scholarships asbeing merit based and financial aid
(21:39):
is need based.
And so usually you'll have tocomplete some forms, some financial
forms to qualify for financialaid, but a student's application
can qualify them for scholarships.
Okay, can you get both?
(21:59):
Absolutely.
And when families get both,it's like a double dip.
Oh, it would be wonderful.
I mean, that would be a huge bonus.
I mean, you could almost sailthrough college if you have that.
Almost debt free.
(22:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely you could.
And so, yes, you can get both.
Do you have a theory on whytuition's so high?
I mean, it just seems like inthe past 30, 40 years it's just gone
up like a really fast logarithm.
There's been a lot that's beenadded to the colleges over the years
(22:41):
and I don't want to call anyof them out out in this way, but
I have gone on over 500 campus visits.
And there are a few collegesthat I visited and they had a lazy
river.
They had some amazing facilities.
(23:02):
And there's a cost to that.
And so that's part of it.
The facilities, the salaries,having really good labs and other
resources.
So that's what I think hascontributed to it the most in terms
(23:26):
of the tuition.
Well, when you drive aroundcertain neighborhoods in the United
States and I don't know if itis the same in Canada, Kathy, Some
of these middle school andhigh school buildings look like country
clubs.
It's like, wow.
Yes, some of them do.
It's just amazing.
It's like, wow.
My high school didn't looklike that.
(23:48):
Yeah, I know.
Mine was all decrepit and rundown and like, what?
Right, right.
I remember my high school kindof grew by leaps and bounds and over
the years and one section ofit was from the 1930s.
I remember thinking, will Ifall through the floor?
Just because to me that seemed ancient.
It's like, wow, you know, look.
(24:09):
Yeah.
And that does not impact thequality of your education.
It's the teacher, you know.
Well, the quality of life onthe campus, I say is certainly enhanced,
for sure.
Yeah.
And being able to have certainresources on campus makes a huge
(24:31):
difference in the quality oflife for students.
You know, being able to accesshealth care, mental health services,
all of the staffing that'sneeded for that.
And so there's a lot that canmake a difference for students lives
and being able to just stay ontop of their assignments and coursework,
(24:58):
just having everythingavailable there on campus for them.
Totally agree.
Well, a good health center,that's important.
It really is.
Think about just all of thestress that's relieved when you can
go to a Pilates class or atrack to run on.
It makes a huge difference.
(25:19):
I mean, when I went back tograd school, I had three little ones
under five and every quarter Ihad some type of exercise class.
And I just felt like that wasmy self care, that was my time to
really unwind and make surethat I was taking care of myself.
(25:43):
Because, you know, especiallyas women and moms and daughters and
aunties, we wear so many hatsand oftentimes don't take care of
ourselves because we puteveryone else first.
So yeah, it really made adifference for me that they had those
(26:03):
resources available on campusfor non traditional students.
I know a lot of the women wholisten to our show may be thinking
about going back to school andfinances are still a very big consideration.
Are there scholarshipsavailable for somebody to say, get
their Bachelor's if theyhaven't gotten it or even go get
their master's degree.
(26:25):
I would say Shelly, more sofor bachelor's I've seen and a little
bit less so for master's.
Sometimes those are covered bytheir company.
Their employer may offerresources for that.
And sometimes there are somecompanies that also offer scholarships
(26:51):
for starting a second careeror going back to school.
It's not as many that I've seen.
They're kind of lagging inthat area when you think about it,
because so many people have topivot today and go into maybe even
a whole new field.
Yes.
And the thing about it ismaybe they do it in a less traditional
(27:16):
way.
And what I mean by that is I'msitting here at my desk looking at
a course guide.
There are a lot of communitycolleges that offer programs and
have courses that support youwith pivoting into another career
field.
I was just looking at thiscourse guide for a local community
(27:41):
college in my area becausethey have online courses as well
as in person courses.
And one of them is inprogramming and information technology
and computer apps.
And so there's a lot that youcould do in your own community at
the local colleges that arevery affordable, very affordable.
(28:06):
And the other way I think toois talking with your employer about
some type of support withgoing back to school.
Sure.
A lot of students may also optfor VO Tech.
They may not necessarilyqualify for college.
That's not something theyreally want to do.
Are there scholarshipsavailable for VO Tech programs too?
(28:29):
Little bit less so.
I haven't seen as many for thevocational areas.
One of the students that I metwith recently, she is interested
in automotive and I'd be hardpressed to find something in that
(28:52):
area to support herscholarship wise.
And so I don't see as many,unfortunately short sighted.
Again, they need to plan forthe future.
And of course, when you lookat automotive, I think you probably
have to have almostcertification, at least in computers,
because everything's computerized.
(29:15):
There are likely somecompanies, some businesses that have
worked out a way for studentsto get that type of training.
Some of it may be on the jobwhere they are working with the company
while they're going back to school.
(29:36):
And that makes it a win winfor the companies.
So I just find it hard tobelieve that everyone who does some
type of vocational traininghas to pay for it out of pocket.
I feel like, especially forcompanies that may be short in terms
of their hiring needs, thatthey are willing to meet that new
(30:03):
employee halfway in a senseand pay for their education at the
same time that they're workingwith them or maybe they agree to
work with them once they finish.
There are ways for it to work out.
Yes, there are ways for it towork out.
Kathy, do you know what'savailable in Canada?
(30:24):
I know that you had quite atraining program with the pivot you
did in your career.
Well, that's the thing.
They have programs here inCanada that help or enable women
mostly.
I hate to say that, but Imean, I kind of feel sorry for the
guys.
But help women developthemselves into traditional, non
(30:48):
traditional careers that womenwould not normally think of getting
into.
And like, the program iscalled Women Building Futures.
And now it's pretty much it'sgotten big enough that it's Canada
wide.
But when I first started in2012, it was only in Edmonton, Alberta
and Calgary.
And what it is, it's companiesthat believe in sponsoring programs
(31:12):
and developing programs toassist women to get into the non
traditional trades becausethere's barely any.
So what I'm talking about iselectrician, plumbing, carpentry
journey woman, craneoperators, heavy equipment operators,
and these programs.
Like, I was very fortunatewhen I couldn't go back to nursing
(31:35):
and I needed a career change.
I was 42.
And I mean, how do you changecareers when.
When that's all you have?
I mean, at the time I wasdesperate enough that I'll go pump
gas just to get a, just to geta paycheck.
But reality speaking, I mean,I have.
Well, Shelly knows I haveeight hamsters and one wheel in this
noggin.
It just doesn't stop.
So I need a career, right?
(31:55):
I need something like I can'tjust go, you know, be a teller.
So I went to a career planningworkshop which was free.
And they helped guide you andsteer you in a direction that you
might not normally think thatyou're qualified for.
And I really took it to heartbecause what they did is they took
into account your personality,your, you know, what, what is it
(32:19):
that you're geared towards,you know, what makes you tick, what
doesn't?
What?
Because you put me in an office.
Setting and it's, it's.
You may as well just shoot me.
Like I.
So Shelly knows too that Istruggle with computer.
I started thinking thatinstead of stopping myself or limiting
myself, that, wait a minute,you know, I don't have to see the
(32:41):
dream at the end.
Is it possible?
I'm like, well, I can drive a truck.
I'm a good, I'm a good truck.
I'm a good driver.
I used to Race cars.
And the day I went in,ExxonMobil, the biggest oil and gas
company in the world, happenedto be there, paying for 16 women
to take a 12 week heavyequipment operator course.
That course was $18,000.
(33:02):
I mean, I was broke, I was in recovery.
I mean, how do you come.
Had I not had that program, Iwouldn't have been able to change
my life the way I did.
And it turns out that, youknow, during the course of this training,
because 158 women applied, butthey only paid for 16.
And I got picked and everypiece of equipment I was getting
on, I'm like, oh my God, I cando this.
(33:23):
Like, I'm good at this, I cando this.
And that shifted everything.
So now everywhere I go, Imean, I encourage women to not limit
themselves to an office job ornot everybody's meant to be a doctor
or a lawyer or whatever, thatthere's other, there's other avenues
and there's if you just look.
Because if you close yourselfoff to opportunities, you're never
(33:45):
going to change.
You're never going to find theone thing that might be right for
you.
Well said.
I love it.
I love it.
And you know, just when youwere sharing, Kathy, it reminded
me when you were talking aboutthe assessments that you did, the
(34:05):
personality and other tools tohelp with thinking about career options.
That's what we're doing withour students as well.
Because even, you know, forteenagers, sometimes they've been
told by their parents orothers, you know, this is what you're
going to be when you grow upand haven't really had an opportunity
(34:29):
to think about it forthemselves or to have some of those
tools that can help them withlearning about other opportunities
that they may have never even considered.
Because we all grow up hearingabout a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer
kind of thing, but not all ofthese other opportunities that are
(34:51):
out there.
And so it really opens their eyes.
It really opens their eyes andjust believing in them too, you know,
when you have highexpectations for students and openly
saying that yes, you could,you can do this, made all the difference
(35:11):
in the world.
And so that was really transformational.
If somebody believes in thestudents and they believe in themselves,
the sky's the limit when youthink about it.
Stay tuned for more of womenRoad warriors coming up.
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Welcome back to Women Road.
Warriors with Shelly Johnsonand Kathy Tucaro.
(36:41):
Got a future?
College freshman prep startsearlier than you think and the price
tag is real.
USA Today puts student debtover $1.7 trillion in the United
States.
It's tripled in 15 years.
AAUW says women carry nearly2/3 of that debt.
Dr. Pamela Ellis, theeducation doctor and author of what
(37:03):
to Know Before They Go showsfamilies how to pay less and choose
smart.
In five years, 95% of herstudents hit their top choice schools
and average $75,000 in scholarships.
She gives a clear step by stepplan so students self advocate, secure
aid and dodge crushing debt.
She offers a blueprint for success.
(37:25):
Dr. Ellis, you open up so manynew horizons for students.
So it's a matter of looking atthe possibilities.
And Dr. Ellis, you're doingthat for families, the parents as
well as the children.
Because really, when you thinkabout it as a teenager, I'm not sure
all teenagers are thinking,what do I really want to be as an
adult?
(37:46):
They can't even fathom thenext 20 years because they're not
20 yet.
I mean, that seems like alifetime away, you know.
Yeah, it all seems so far away.
And a lot of times there's somuch noise, so many other distractions.
Oh gosh.
Sometimes we as adults taketime to do, like to sit down and
(38:08):
think about what is ourpurpose in life.
And so for the students, we'reproviding them the tools to start
to think about that and toreally think about what they want,
what they like, what they enjoy.
And it's okay to do somethingthat they want to do and not something
(38:34):
that everyone else is takingtelling them they have to do or should
do.
And it's invaluable.
And just like thetransformational experience that
Kathy had.
That's what we want for our students.
And one of the things that wedo as part of our program is we curate
(38:58):
a list of summer programs for them.
And so just in the same waythat Eddie is offering the opportunity
for three days for students tocome and try out the heavy equipment,
that's what a summer program does.
And I have to share this storyof our student John.
(39:20):
He was, you know, always beentold he's going to do engineering
because he's great at math.
And he did a summer programand let me tell you, this program
was only a week long and hewas going into his junior year of
(39:42):
high school at the time.
When he came back from thatprogram, he was like, Dr. Pamela,
I am not going to be an engineer.
And I was like, great, that isgreat to know.
Now he knew that that was notwhat he wanted to do at all.
I mean he just did not enjoythe experience.
(40:05):
And he was doing somethingwhere he was learning about different
types of engineeringdisciplines and just thought it was
no, no way did it fit him.
And it, that kind ofexperience just gave him a chance
to sit for himself what thatwas like and really supported him
(40:27):
with then looking at otheravenues and thinking about what he
really wanted to do as opposedto doing something because someone
else suggested it to him.
That's really forward thinking.
I don't recall any of theschools offering that kind of program
when I was getting ready to graduate.
(40:49):
I know the community collegeallowed you as a student in high
school to attend college thereand you actually, if you got some
credits, it would apply toyour high school graduation.
That was kind of cool.
Yeah.
And they still do that a lothere in the US around the country
they have those types ofprograms that they refer to often
(41:10):
as college credit plus.
And that is one way for sure.
And I highly, highly recommendso summer programs because they can
really help students learn howto be independent, build some self
advocacy skills and alsocareer exploration.
(41:34):
And it's in a, an environmentthat's low stakes and it's really
about exploring.
So you haven't, you know,really invested a whole lot and it
gives them something creativeto do in the summertime, you know,
because kids in the summeroftentimes may just be hanging out
(41:55):
and that's about it.
But this gives them somethinga little bit more constructive, help
build their interpersonalskills as well.
And I love them.
I love them.
I actually, even though thiswas many years ago, I did a summer
business program and then Idid a summer pre med program when
(42:17):
I was in high school.
And they helped me tremendously.
They helped me tremendously.
You offer a lot for parentsand students.
Do you have maybe somenuggets, maybe a good template on
what parents and students needto think about in terms of college
education or direction?
Yes, I do, and I would love tooffer it to your listeners.
(42:42):
What I have is the CollegeConfidence Blueprint.
And what it is, is a guide forwhat, what to do each year of high
school so that you arepositioned not only for your teen,
is not only position foradmissions, but also scholarships
(43:02):
as well.
And it also includes acommunication guide because oftentimes
there is a little bit oftension but.
Or stress or frustration whenparents are talking with their kids
about college.
Sometimes their kids give themthe silent treatment.
And so these communicationtips can help with having that conversation.
(43:24):
And so all they have to do issend me the keyword Blueprint25 to
my box on LinkedIn and that'sDr. Pamela Ellis, D R P A M E L A
E L L I S and I will send itright over to them.
Blueprint 25.
(43:45):
Thank you so much.
What a great template.
I wish I'd had that.
Yeah, no kidding, eh?
Right.
Well, your listeners can haveit now.
I, I still wonder what I'mgoing to be when I grow up, you know?
I know, me too.
I know.
I think I should have had abetter game plan because I think
(44:06):
you end up taking a lot ofcollege classes too, that you have
to fill so many credit hours.
You may take a class thatisn't necessarily going to even fit
with what you ought to do fora living.
Yes.
And students end up wastingmoney on a lot of classes that, well,
maybe because they couldn'tget into another class, they end
up taking a class that just iswithin the general matriculation
(44:29):
requirements.
You have these big words andall of that.
It isn't something that isn'tis going to help them necessarily,
but they have to take it, you know?
You know, I am chuckling asyou are saying that because I certainly
thought that that was the casewhen I was in college.
And I just remember having theidea that I'm just going to major
(44:56):
in what I enjoy and not worryabout it.
I'm not going to worry about it.
I ended up majoring in linguistics.
One of the classes I had totake was called Artificial Intelligence
and Linguistics.
Who would have ever thoughtthat I would know anything or ever
(45:20):
use anything with artificial intelligence?
Because it was the first fullname back then.
And then I worked for thisartificial intelligence publishing
company.
They Liked the fact that I hadhad that course.
So I worked with them.
They published AI textbooksback then.
And this was in the late 80s.
(45:42):
Fast forward.
I was interviewing for aposition in investment banking, and
I was.
Was having this interview withthe guy.
And let me tell you, Shellyand Kathy, this interview was not
going well at all.
I could tell that this guyfelt like he wasn't.
(46:02):
He was wasting his timemeeting with me.
And so he asked me somethingabout my major in college, because
he's used to having people whowould major in finance or business.
But, you know, myundergraduate institution doesn't
have a business major.
(46:24):
Undergrad, I majored in linguistics.
So I started talking with himabout it and what I had learned from
it.
And let me tell you, thatconversation turned completely around,
and he ended up being mybiggest advocate.
Yes, he did.
And that was really the firsttime I had used anything I had learned
(46:49):
in linguistics.
But now fast forward today,and so much of what I learned then
that I never thought I wouldapply again.
I mean, I've been using it andit's made such a difference.
And I think that oftentimes inliberal arts, what they're preparing
(47:11):
you for is to think creatively.
They're teaching you how towrite, to do research, and have these
skills that can be appliedbroadly because you don't know what
the next two to three yearsare going to look like.
And so that's exactly what itdid for me.
(47:31):
And I've had my business nowfor over 15 years, and I've been
using AI my entire business life.
I've worked remotely for over25 years.
And so because I've alwaysbeen remote, you know, I've had to
use technology and becomfortable with AI because I was
(47:58):
remote.
That was what I envisioned.
And it's been that way for solong now.
And so when everythinghappened a few years ago with the
pandemic, I was already set upbecause it had been so longstanding
that I'd been using AI andusing technology to work virtually.
(48:22):
You had to step up on otherpeople who hadn't been doing that.
Yeah, well, it was no surprisefor me in terms of how to do it.
And I've always lovedexperimenting with technology.
And when I saw what companieswere doing back 15 years ago when
I started my business, I justthought, wow, I'm going to try this
(48:43):
out.
This looks great.
And so here we are.
You never know what you'regoing to learn that you can use again.
You know, I. I kept themajority of my textbooks from college.
I have Used them.
I have looked up stuff.
Some of it may be a littleoutdated, but it's like, oh, that's
right.
Let me look this up.
Exactly, exactly.
(49:04):
Or you have this littlefactoid that comes floating in your
head.
It's like, oh, that's right.
I remember that from that exam.
Oh, I hated that class.
You know, you wonder, wheredid that come from?
But, yeah, that's where itcame from, that little kernel.
So you can help parents andkids in many different ways here.
Where do people find you?
(49:25):
Wow.
They find me usually through aspeaking engagement, referral from
another family, or online.
Okay.
Those are the three ways.
I am on LinkedIn and share alot of resources there.
(49:45):
And our website iscompasscollege advisory.com and they can
certainly reach us there.
I also seetheeducationdoctor.com Is that another
way to reach you?
It is.
It is.
So either one, what are thewebsites again?
It's theeducationdoctor.comand what was the other one you mentioned?
(50:06):
Compasscollegeadvisory.com.
Terrific.
Well, I highly recommendpeople reach out to you because navigating
college admission, wow, that'sa daunting process.
I mean, that's almost biggerthan getting a mortgage.
It is a daunting process forsure, but it doesn't have to be.
(50:26):
Just as you said at thebeginning, it doesn't have to be.
Thank you, Dr. Ellis, for allyou do, and I appreciate you coming.
We appreciate you coming onthe show.
Thank you so much.
I appreciated being on the show.
Thank you.
Thank you both so, so much.
I appreciate all that you'redoing and just how you're empowering
(50:46):
and inspiring.
Thank you.
Yes, thank you, Dr. Ellis.
We really appreciate that.
We hope you've enjoyed thislatest episode.
And if you want to hear moreepisodes of Women Road warriors or
learn more about our show, besure to check out womenroadwarriors.com
and please follow us on social media.
And don't forget to subscribeto our podcast on our website.
(51:09):
We also have a selection ofpodcasts just for women.
They're a series of podcastsfrom different podcasters.
So if you're in the mood forwomen's podcasts, just click the
Power network tab onwomenroadwarriors.com youm'll have
a variety of shows to listento anytime you want to.
Podcasts Made for Women WomenRoad warriors is on all the major
(51:30):
podcast channels like Apple,Spotify, Amazon, Audible, YouTube
and others.
Check us out and please followus wherever you listen to podcasts.
Thanks for listening.
You've been listening to WomenRoad warriors.
With Shelly Johnson and Kathy Tucaro.
If you want to be a guest onthe show or have a topic.
(51:52):
Or feedback, email us@sjohnsonomenroadwarriors.com.
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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.