January 22, 2025 • 26 mins
Ever felt like you're alone in your struggles, as if no one quite understands the battles you're facing with your mental health? In this heartening episode of we dive deep into the art of redefining our paths to healing and happiness. Randi Owsley, LMSW, and Jessica Bullwinkle, LMFT, two seasoned therapists who've dedicated their careers to empowering women, will share their profound insights on breaking through the mental health stigma, transforming personal hurdles into powerful, uplifting stories of resilience, and embracing self-care as a pivotal tool for recovery. Join us on a journey of self-discovery and solidarity, because here, you're never alone.
In the art of flipping the script on traditional narratives, it opens doors to tailored coping strategies and insightful resources. Whether you are looking for coping strategies or simply wish to understand more, there are resources geared towards providing support and guidance.
In the upcoming episodes of our podcast, we're diving deep into the heart of what it means to rise, heal, and thrive as a woman. We're challenging mental health norms, shining a light on the real and raw narratives of hope and healing that too often go unheard. Our episodes will serve as a psychological well-being guide, tailored specifically for women, focusing on building a community of support that uplifts and empowers. Join us, as we embrace these crucial conversations, fostering a space where every woman’s voice is heard and her story valued.
FAQs
What does "flipping the script" mean in a conversation?
Why is it important to change the subject gracefully?
How can I change the subject without offending the other person?
What are some signs that I should change the conversation topic?
Can you give examples of phrases to use when flipping the script?
What if someone keeps bringing the conversation back to the uncomfortable topic?
How can flipping the script be beneficial in professional settings?
Are there any situations where it's better not to change the subject?
How can I practice the skill of flipping the script?
What should I do if my attempt to change the subject fails?
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The Women’s Mental Health Podcast, hosted by licensed therapists Randi Owsley MSW and Jessica Bullwinkle LMFT, PMH-C, offers educational and entertaining mental health content. This is not therapy or a substitute for professional care. No therapeutic relationship is formed by listening or engaging. Some links may be affiliate links, which may earn us a small commission at no extra cost to you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Randi (00:00):
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
(00:02):
I'm randy.
I'm And I'm Jess.
And we are two licensedpsychotherapists, and this is a
safe space where we talk aboutmental health, well being, and
strategies for coping withlife's challenges.
And how all of this is normal,and you are not alone.
Today we're diving into a skillthat doesn't get talked about
enough, but can be a gamechanger in social, professional,
and even personal situations.
(00:23):
The art of flipping the script,or how to change the subjects
with grace and confidence.
Jess (00:29):
So when we talk about flipping the script, it's about
preserving your mental healthand respecting other people.
It's a powerful tool in yourcommunication toolbox that
allows you to navigateconversations with finesse while
safeguarding your emotional andmental well being.
So if you can learn to embracethis skill.
You're gonna watch yourinterpersonal relationships,
(00:51):
whether it's at home or, withpeople at work, your mental
health needs are going to besuccessful.
Randi (00:57):
Find us and more information on
womensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
We're going to jump into ourhave you ever had these
thoughts.
Jess (01:05):
What does flipping the script mean in a conversation?
Randi (01:09):
Why is it important to change the subject gracefully?
Jess (01:12):
How can I change the subject without offending the
other person?
And this is huge.
Randi (01:16):
What are some signs that I should change the conversation
topic?
Jess (01:20):
Are there examples or phrases to use when flipping the
script?
And honestly, as therapists, wehave them.
Yes.
Randi (01:26):
What if someone keeps bringing the conversation back
to the uncomfortable topic orsomething you don't want to talk
about?
Jess (01:33):
How can flipping the script be beneficial in the
professional setting?
Randi (01:36):
Are there any situations where it's better not to change
the subject?
Jess (01:40):
How can I practice the skill of flipping the script?
Randi (01:43):
And what should I do if my attempts to change the
subject fail?
Jess (01:47):
Ooh, that's a good one.
So first, let's talk about whatdoes flipping the script
actually
Randi (01:54):
So flipping the script is essentially the art of
redirecting a conversation orsometimes diffusing a
conversation.
It's about knowing when and howto change the subject in a way
that feels natural andrespectful.
Jess (02:08):
This skill, it is not gaslighting.
It is.
It is none of those.
negative kind of connotation.
You're not trying to
Randi (02:14):
control the narrative.
Jess (02:16):
Correct.
Randi (02:17):
You're just trying to, maybe, gently move from
something that is negative.
It's maybe the person can't readthe room or, they're going into
a territory that's triggeringfor you or something else.
So it's redirecting.
Jess (02:31):
Exactly.
And this is a skill that'suseful when that conversation
starts to feel uncomfortable orinvasive or unproductive,
whether it's steering away fromgossip or deflecting unwanted
personal questions.
Because people do that.
And you're like
Randi (02:46):
yeah, what do I say?
How do I react?
Yeah,
Jess (02:49):
exactly.
Or shifting the focus in aheated discussion.
Flipping the script is going toallow you to, control of the
narrative in a sense, but it'sgoing to actually allow you to
diffuse it.
So you are not going to have togo down somebody else's path or
a path that may not be verycomfortable or easy.
It could be dangerous for you.
This topic came up becausesomebody was telling me they had
(03:10):
gotten home late, they were inan Uber at I don't know,
midnight, and somebody wastalking and then all of a sudden
they said some reallyuncomfortable things and they
were like, Oh, here I am bymyself with this dude.
And they were like, I don't knowwhat to do.
And I was like, okay, that'swhen you have to diffuse it or
change it or shift it back.
You got to flip the narrative orflip the script on that one.
(03:33):
And that way it goes back tobeing comfortable.
Randi (03:35):
And this saying comes from storytelling and film.
filmmaking where flipping thescript refers to a sudden change
in the direction or perspectiveof the story.
So in conversations, it's likehitting the refresh button or
like the do over button.
I like that you're rewriting thenarrative in real time, you're
guiding the dialogue in a waythat feels more aligned with
(03:56):
your needs or values, or a morepositive flow.
Jess (04:00):
It's like imagining you're at, the dinner table with a
relative that asked thatuncomfortable question of, so
have you finally got a job?
Randi (04:08):
Yeah.
Jess (04:09):
And you're just like, or do
Randi (04:09):
you finally have a boyfriend?
Why aren't you married?
Why aren't you
Jess (04:12):
married?
Where are your kids?
Do you own a house?
And you're just like these areuncomfortable.
So as women, it affects usbecause we often feel the need
to be polite, Say nice things,avoid conflict.
Even if we endure uncomfortableconversations, we're expected to
do that for the sake of harmony,peacemaking, which is bullshit.
Randi (04:33):
Yeah, I'm rolling my eyes because when you do that, you're
just taking that on and that canlead to stress that can lead to
resentment that can lead tofeelings like you don't have a
voice and that you're oppressedin certain situations.
And when you learn how to flipthe script, it really empowers
you to set boundaries with it.
(04:54):
out confrontation becauseusually if you're having a hard
time with this already, you'renot like wanting to jump right
into the deep end of the pool ofconfrontation with somebody.
So this really helps you protectyourself and your bubble and
your mental and emotional wellbeing.
Jess (05:12):
Exactly.
And this is going to help youwith your confidence when you do
have an awkward conversation.
If you have the tools togracefully redirect a
conversation, it can make youfeel like you're more in control
of yourself, not everybody else,but of yourself, whether, again,
you're at a family gathering, awork meeting, or you're on that
weird, awkward date thatsomebody's asking you stuff and
(05:35):
you're just like how do I answerthis?
Randi (05:37):
How can we all embrace this skill and make it part of
our everyday lives?
Let's break it down.
Jess (05:43):
First, we have to practice the art of redirection.
We need to use phrases such as,Oh, that's interesting, but have
you ever thought about blank?
Or, I was just thinking about.
And that can go ahead andtransition the conversation away
from whatever they're talkingabout.
Randi (06:02):
Another way is to acknowledge and then redirect.
So you could say, I hear you,but I'm curious what you think
about this and lead into adifferent answer.
topic, so you can be like, Istill want to know your
thoughts, but let's talk aboutthoughts about this that are
good thoughts.
Jess (06:22):
Well, it's not even that I want to hear, I want to hear
your thoughts is I hear whatyou're saying, however, and then
you can change the subject,right?
The otherwise is normalizing.
your boundary setting.
You know us in boundaries.
We love our boundariesboundaries.
In fact, we have a friend whohas Randy going boundaries,
bitch, as her ringtone, which Ithink is hilarious.
(06:43):
Okay, so it is okay to say no.
I know we haven't said that in along time, but it is okay to say
no if you are uncomfortablesomething.
It's not rude to say, I'm notsure I don't want to talk about
that.
Randi (06:57):
No is a complete sentence.
Jess (06:58):
I know.
And that's, look at me, Icouldn't even do it.
Randi (07:00):
I know.
She's like cringing over there.
And I'm like, why are youcringing?
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,no, no.
Jess (07:06):
One of the things I do a lot of times, I also say, why do
you ask?
Randi (07:10):
And then if somebody says it, redirects it back on them.
So it puts a spotlight, they'retrying to maybe spotlight you or
make you feel uncomfortable andyou're putting that back on
them.
Jess (07:19):
Why do you ask?
And if they tell me, I was justwondering, okay, cool.
And then I move on with theconversation.
So I've never answered them.
And they could ask again, Icould like, Hmm, then that's
when I'm like, well, I'm notsure I want to answer that.
I'm not sure I'm comfortablewith that or that's not
something I really want to talkabout right now, if you want to
be direct.
It is okay that we don't have torespond to everything.
(07:41):
I know we feel as women we haveto answer to everything.
But silence or redirection is ahealthy choice.
Randi (07:47):
Yeah, and I also feel like silence can be an answer
too.
Oh, not
Jess (07:50):
saying something is still saying something.
Randi (07:52):
Yeah, Another step is to show support for others that are
practicing flipping the script.
So how do we do that?
Jess (07:59):
Mm hmm Validate their choices, if someone is changing
the subject respect their shiftand sometimes Randy will do
something and I'm like I hearwhat you're saying, and I
appreciate your boundary BecauseI'm like, I see what you're
doing, I like it, and I got it.
Randi (08:13):
also too, when you practice this yourself, it
encourages others to do the samewithout fear or judgment.
And Jess and I are also like,okay, when we hear your
boundary, we see it, okay,that's good.
And I need to do that too.
I'm not doing this right now.
It's a good reminder.
Yeah.
When you practice it, otherpeople see it.
And that inspires them to do it,
Jess (08:33):
especially if you're going to practice it in what I would
call like a low pressuresituation where you can practice
this.
So that way, the more we do it,when we do get that marathon of,
Oh crap, I have to redirectthis.
Randi (08:44):
Yeah.
When you are in a superstressful situation or with
somebody, that is going toantagonize you.
Jess (08:49):
It just feels more comfortable because it rolls off
your tongue and it's beenpracticed.
Let's go through some scenarioshere.
Cause basically.
People like when we actuallybanter back and forth.
Yeah, and
Randi (08:58):
role play.
What could happen?
So okay, let's say that there issome gossip going around.
So if someone is gossiping, youcan say, I'm not sure about
that.
But speaking of work, did yousee that new project?
Jess (09:12):
Oh, I like that.
So instead
Randi (09:13):
of like the water cooler talk, maybe like a redirect that
you're not gonna engage in thatgossip about the other person.
Jess (09:21):
Yeah.
Or you can say, I haven't heardthat.
Hmm.
Let's go to lunch.
Another is when, oh, my favoriteunsolicited advice.
My God.
Do you know how many people Iget giving me advice as a woman
who does woodworking?
Like seriously, somebody theother day was telling me.
Really?
Make it stop.
They were telling me that, well,you put your hair up, right?
(09:41):
Because you would hate to getyour hair caught in a machine.
Motherfuckers, have you not seenme do, I, I post videos and my
hair is a hot mess and top of myhead.
I cut the little, I wearhoodies, but I cut the little
strings because I don't needthose going into the woodworking
machines and strangling myself.
Anyway, that's my, I'll go backto my, okay, anyway, let's go
back.
When somebody offers unsolicitedadvice.
(10:03):
Try.
Thanks for the input.
I'll think about it.
By the way, have you tried thenew coffee shop?
sometimes I will.
I'll be like, okay, cool.
Thanks.
And then, I'll think about it orI'll give it a try and I move on
because I'm like, whateverthey're trying to help, but I
don't want to encourage it byooh, tell me more because I
don't want to hear more.
Randi (10:20):
Yeah, and I had to learn this very quickly, having a
larger social media following.
that people were going to try totell me, things or say things on
my video about my life.
I had to be like, okay thanks.
And I'll take that inconsideration.
Or Yeah, maybe I'll try that.
And I just, Left it at that.
Jess (10:42):
Let them just let them be, let them do their thing.
My personal favorite was the onethat got mad at you because you
were talking about savings andyou had your car in your ring
and you're like, how do youthink I got this by getting my
savings?
My God.
All right, let's do scenarionumber three.
Let's do personal questions.
Ready?
Randi (10:59):
Okay.
So if someone asks somethingthat's too personal, you can
say, Oh, that's a long story,but tell me, how's your new job
going?
Or how's your new hobby going?
Or how's your new relationship?
Jess (11:11):
Yeah, that's where you go, Ooh, that's complicated.
And then you just move on.
Randi (11:15):
Yeah, I don't have time to go into that right now.
But thanks for asking.
Jess (11:19):
No, don't even say thanks.
Don't even say thanks forasking, because then they're
going to ask again.
And Right?
this is another boundary thatyou're going to put up so you
can still say things like, well,why do you ask?
Again, that's that, why do youask?
Randi (11:32):
Redirect.
Jess (11:33):
Yeah.
Hmm.
That's interesting.
Okay, so let's go through and doour have you ever thoughts.
Randy, what does flipping thescript mean in a conversation?
Randi (11:42):
It refers to the skill of changing the direction of a
discussion or topic ofconversation tactfully and
smoothly.
This can help steerconversations away from triggers
or uncomfortable subjects andtowards more positive or neutral
ground.
Jess, why do you think it'simportant to change the subject
with tact and gracefully?
Jess (12:04):
If we can do it gracefully, it helps maintain
really healthy boundaries andpositive interactions.
When we become negative, it justmakes it feel awkward and
everybody gets weird and theythink there's this bad thing
behind it.
It really just allows you toprotect your mental space
without seeming rude ordisinterested.
It's going to help yourrelationships.
(12:25):
Because these are going to beabout mutual respect and
understanding again.
Let's go back to, the politicaldivide.
I don't need to know what sideyou're on.
You don't need to know what sideI am.
And, I've even been there.
My, my daughter actually calledme out in the car.
I don't know if I've said thisbefore.
We're with a friend of hersthere in the car.
And I was like, so what doesthat flag at your house mean?
(12:47):
And I didn't know, but mydaughter goes, Mom, you're not
allowed to ask that stuffanymore.
Randi (12:54):
You've been put in time out.
I
Jess (12:55):
got put in, I was like, you are probably right.
I'm going to not ask thatquestion.
Randi (13:00):
Well, I got into a huge thing with my sister.
She will not discuss politicswith me.
And I'm like, you are a womanand you should do this and you
should.
And I was like, whatever.
Let them.
I was like, okay, you.
But she put a boundary up withyou.
She did.
And you didn't like it.
I did not like it.
I was like, I'm your big sisterand we don't have, you can't
(13:22):
tell me no.
Jess (13:23):
But she told you no, but the way she did it, she could
have done it with more gracethat says, that's not something
I'm comfortable talking aboutwith you.
I think she was just blunt andsays, I'm not telling you.
Randi (13:32):
Well, she was like, I don't talk about dad with it.
I don't talk about you.
I don't talk about any issues.
Like it's my, and I was like,Oh, she kept her boundaries with
you.
I was like, for once, I waslike, all right, fine.
And then I let it go because Iwas like, whatever that's
something that she feelsstrongly about.
And probably because I wouldn'tlike her answer.
Jess (13:52):
Probably not.
So then Randy, I'm going to askyou, how can I change the
subject without offending theother person then?
Randi (13:58):
So begin by acknowledging that what.
was said before, and thensmoothly transition to a
different topic.
So you might say, I appreciateyour points on that topic.
Have you heard about
Jess (14:11):
blank,
Randi (14:12):
This shows that you were listening.
But then you're guiding theconversation elsewhere.
Jess (14:18):
Oh, I like that.
Because you're not dismissingwhat they said.
You hear them.
You're just not engaging withit.
You're
Randi (14:23):
validating that you were actively listening.
Yeah.
But now you're validating.
Let's move on to a new topic.
Jess (14:30):
Exactly.
So Jess,
Randi (14:31):
what are some signs that you should change the
conversation?
Jess (14:35):
When you feel uncomfortable.
I know as women, we get this.
Okay, I get this.
I know most of y'all get this,this gut feeling.
When you get that gut feeling.
I want you to listen to it.
I don't, we're not going to gointo the deep dives of what that
is or where it is, but when youfeel uncomfortable or stressed
(14:55):
or notice that others seemdisengaged or upset, these are
clear cues that changing thesubject might be best for
everybody there and involved.
Randi (15:06):
Yeah.
Read the room.
Jess (15:07):
Read the room.
Trust your instincts.
They're really, really powerfulindicators of what is going on.
Okay.
And again, if you can't changethe subject and you're so
uncomfortable, literally changeyour body position and say, or
Randi (15:20):
get up and leave the room.
Jess (15:21):
Exactly.
I was gonna say, I have to gouse the restroom.
I'll be right back.
Go to the restroom, not evenjust
Randi (15:27):
by, well,
Jess (15:28):
sometimes you're with like your boss and you're like, you
gotta get back.
So you're like, I'm going to usethe restroom, I'll be right back
or I'm going to get a glass ofwater.
Randi (15:35):
But if you're like in an uncomfortable situation, like on
a date or something like that,get up, get up and leave.
Like you don't.
Oh, anybody, anything.
Jess (15:43):
No, but if you're with family and it's awkward, and
you're like, Oh, we're all stuckin this house because it's
snowing outside.
Be like, I'm going to use therestroom.
I'll be right back.
And that's what I teach people.
Literally get up and leave andcome back.
And if they're still on thatdamn subject, try to change it
again.
And if not, be like, Oh, youknow what, I just remembered mom
wanted something and get up andleave.
Randi (16:03):
And don't let people gaslight you either.
Or make you feel bad for doingthat and he said we're stuck in
a house with snow that literallyhappened to me I was stuck in a
cabin.
I imagined a cabin.
We were snowed in in yosemiteand Somebody made a comment that
was very very upsetting to me SoI got up and I left and I went
(16:23):
to the bedroom and then theystarted throwing a fit like I
was being like a diva and I saidI literally got up and left
because I didn't want to engagein this and because It's so
heavy on my heart right now whathas just happened and that
you're talking about.
And I didn't want to feed intothat.
I didn't want to create moredrama.
I wasn't being dramatic byleaving.
(16:45):
I said I was setting a boundaryby leaving and giving myself
some space to calm down becauseI didn't want to engage in that
comment that you made.
Jess (16:54):
this is the part where we do it with Grace when you say,
you know what, I'll be back.
I'm going to go.
I'm going to go lay down for aminute.
I've got a little bit of aheadache.
Or I just, I need to go getsomething out of the other room.
You don't have to lie about aheadache, sometimes I just,
Randi (17:06):
I need a minute.
Jess (17:07):
Yeah.
I'll, you know what?
I'll be right back.
I need a minute.
Whatever that means.
If you don't want to engage withthem, it is okay to excuse
yourself.
It's also okay.
What Randy did just to be like,I left now.
Maybe she was being a divabecause she was throwing her
arms up and waving her featherboa.
Yeah.
And she was like, I'm out ofhere.
I put a crown on and stompedout.
Well, I couldn't really go.
And she threw herself on her bedlike Scarlett O'Hara.
(17:29):
Okay, that's a diva and I can'timagine her doing that, but hey,
well, maybe she did.
Okay.
So Randy, can you give me someexamples of flipping the script?
What phrases I can use?
Randi (17:40):
Okay.
So speaking of which it remindsme of, or speaking of which that
reminds me of.
Or, that's a very interestingpoint, but I've been really
excited to talk about this.
I see where you're coming from,but also have you considered or
have you thought dot dot dot?
Or let's table this for now.
(18:01):
I was curious about
Jess (18:03):
Blank.
Yeah, I like that last one.
I like that.
Can we table this or can we putthis, is it couch it?
Randi (18:08):
Is it couch it?
Pause.
I would say let's pause this,like now.
Couch it?
I don't know if I, is
Jess (18:12):
that the right phrase?
Maybe it is table it.
Randi (18:14):
I don't know.
Table it.
Let's table it.
Well,
Jess (18:15):
but I thought we could put like couch.
No, it is.
Yeah.
I want to add a couch to itapparently.
Randi (18:20):
I need to lay on a couch right now.
Okay, Jess, what if someonebrings The conversation back to
that topic again, and it's justso uncomfortable.
They will, they won't let it go,
Jess (18:29):
right?
Because you've already left.
You've already peed.
You've already got water.
You've already said you had aheadache.
You've already found yourmother.
Okay.
So I want you to remain firm andgentle.
You can say something like, Ithink we've covered that quite
extensively.
I'd really like to focus onblank for now.
Setting boundaries is key toyour mental wellness, Honestly,
when you can set theseboundaries, I've got a friend,
(18:50):
she's on her HOA meeting.
She's so damn good at this.
I sat there and watched herbecause I've never seen her at
work.
I know what she does, but I onlyknow her I see her when she
comes, sounds creepy now, I seeher when she comes home all
dressed up because she livesacross the street.
Yeah.
But anyway, I always see herlike in sweats and t shirts and
whatever else.
Literally pulled out theprofessional thing in the middle
of this HOA meeting and said,you know what let's maybe she
(19:12):
said Let's table that for nowLet's hold off on that right now
and let's let's redirect back tothis and whatever and I was just
like boom
Randi (19:18):
boom boom boom Boom, huh?
Jess (19:20):
I was so impressed.
I had to tell her later.
I was like damn, that's goodShe's like I do this for a
living.
I was like, man, you're
Randi (19:25):
good.
You're like you just totallyboss, babe She did she
Jess (19:28):
did it So well, she set the boundary and she said, we'll
talk about this later and gaveit a later date.
All right, Randy, how canflipping the script be
beneficial in professionalsettings like this answer?
Yeah.
Randi (19:39):
Because you are keeping the discussion productive.
You're keeping it on track.
You're keeping you know howthere are people always say,
that's another meeting thatcould have been an email.
Yes.
Because people just go on and onand on and on because a lot of
people don't know how toredirect and keep people on
tasks or read the
Jess (19:59):
room
Randi (19:59):
right and so This is like something that can be really
beneficial, especially in theworkplace, to keep things on
track and going and moving.
And it's really good too.
And networking, it helps youmake meaningful connections
while avoiding, potentialconflicts.
Jess (20:17):
Nice.
Nice.
And sometimes when you have abunch of ADHDers, you have to be
kept on track.
Randi (20:22):
Oh, yeah.
Like Jess and I are always like,Hey, girl, you're going down a
rabbit hole, rule it back in.
Usually one of us is off.
And the other one's trying topull the other one in.
Okay, Jess, are there anysituations where it's better not
to change the subject and justlet it lie?
Jess (20:43):
I say yes.
If it is a topic with a verysignificant emotional importance
to someone else involved, itmight be better to fully explore
it unless it's going to causeyou distress.
It's that whole, if it's goingto cause more harm than good,
then no, don't do it.
Sometimes active listening canreally be more beneficial than
(21:03):
diverting the conversation.
Right.
But you have to be in a placewhere you're ready to hear this.
Yeah.
Randi (21:08):
You don't want to be constantly like avoiding
somebody that's trying to have aSerious conversation with you.
There's like a fine line there.
If somebody's trying to broach asubject with you and you feel
like you owe it to them to hearthem out, then, actively listen.
But if it's something that'striggering for you, definitely
use the redirect techniques.
Jess (21:28):
Exactly.
So how do we practice the skillof flipping the script or
changing that conversation ordirection?
Randi (21:35):
Practice with friends or family or just repeat, the
sayings out to yourself and,work it into as Jess likes to
call it, low stakes conversationor like low stress, like not
jumping into the frying pan withsomebody like you're ready to
fight to the death with about,politics while you're in line
for Starbucks.
Okay.
And also, I think it's veryimportant to pay attention to
(21:56):
people's body language and theirverbal cues and half of,
conversation is body language.
And so you really need to kindof like pay attention to how the
person is acting.
And the more that you practiceit, the more naturally it will
come to you, especially in thoseneeded situations.
Jess (22:16):
It's like those people, like when you're backing up and
they keep getting close to youand you back up again and
they're getting close to you andthey don't get that you're
trying to get out of theirbubble or keep them out of
yours.
And we've all seen that.
And you finally eventually haveto say, Hey, hang on.
I'm actually stepping backbecause I need a little bit more
space.
I've had to actually put my handup and do that because I'm like,
okay, you're going to corner meand then I'm going to flip.
(22:37):
Yeah.
I'm not going to flip thescript.
I'm like bubble boy.
Do you see?
I'm going to just flip.
Randi (22:41):
How funny.
So Jess, what do you do if yourattempts to change the subject
or conversation has failed?
Jess (22:50):
Well, first I want you to acknowledge and be proud of
yourself for trying, becausethis is part of just having the
grace in it.
Randi (22:57):
Learning, growing.
Jess (22:58):
Exactly.
You can try approaching thetopic differently.
If it doesn't work, you considerexcusing yourself from the
conversation if it becomes toouncomfortable, whatever it is
that you need for thoseboundaries.
If you need to be a diva becausethey're not hearing you, fine,
that's great.
I'm gonna make fun of her for awhile now.
And if
Randi (23:17):
they're offended, let them be offended.
Exactly.
Jess (23:20):
So part of it is do what you need to do, and if that
person continually wants toharass or talk about that
subject, that's not somebody Inecessarily want to hang out
with.
And I can literally say, I haveto go now.
I was with somebody, no, I wastalking to somebody the other
day, and they were like, yeah,this person was really rude, she
was saying this and that, shegoes, you know what, I just
left.
And I was like, cool.
She goes, yep, I left the party.
(23:41):
I was like, I don't need this.
I don't want to deal with it.
I don't want the drama, becauseit's not my friend, but you know
what, I'm just gonna peace out.
I don't need any of this crap.
Yeah, exactly.
And that is a literal fact.
Boundary of not wanting to causedrama
Randi (23:53):
and learning to redirect, conversations is such a powerful
tool.
You can learn to reclaim yourvoice with this.
You can learn to protect yourmental health.
You can learn to protect, yourthoughts and your values.
It gives you so much confidence,I feel too, when you can
navigate conversations.
Jess (24:13):
Oh, yeah.
That's why there's so manythousands of books about
breathing and havingconversations and, and how to
have that conversation.
And it is about practice.
And unfortunately, we learn aswe grow.
So the older we get, the betterwe feel about it.
I wish I had these skills when Iwas back in my 20s, we have them
now and that's what matters islearning as you grow.
Randi (24:34):
And I feel like too that this is such a good form of self
care.
You wouldn't think, sometimes wethink of all these frivolous
things as self care, butlearning to use your voice in a
powerful way and empoweryourself is a huge form of self
care.
Jess (24:50):
It is.
It is.
Randi (24:51):
So thanks for tuning in to today's episode.
If this resonated with you,please share it with a friend
who could use some tips onflipping the script.
Jess (24:59):
And as always, take care of yourselves and each other
until next time.
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
(00:02):
I'm randy.
I'm And I'm Jess.
And we are two licensedpsychotherapists, and this is a
safe space where we talk aboutmental health, well being, and
strategies for coping withlife's challenges.
And how all of this is normal,and you are not alone.
Today we're diving into a skillthat doesn't get talked about
enough, but can be a gamechanger in social, professional,
and even personal situations.
(00:23):
The art of flipping the script,or how to change the subjects
with grace and confidence.
Jess (00:29):
So when we talk about flipping the script, it's about
preserving your mental healthand respecting other people.
It's a powerful tool in yourcommunication toolbox that
allows you to navigateconversations with finesse while
safeguarding your emotional andmental well being.
So if you can learn to embracethis skill.
You're gonna watch yourinterpersonal relationships,
(00:51):
whether it's at home or, withpeople at work, your mental
health needs are going to besuccessful.
Randi (00:57):
Find us and more information on
womensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
We're going to jump into ourhave you ever had these
thoughts.
Jess (01:05):
What does flipping the script mean in a conversation?
Randi (01:09):
Why is it important to change the subject gracefully?
Jess (01:12):
How can I change the subject without offending the
other person?
And this is huge.
Randi (01:16):
What are some signs that I should change the conversation
topic?
Jess (01:20):
Are there examples or phrases to use when flipping the
script?
And honestly, as therapists, wehave them.
Yes.
Randi (01:26):
What if someone keeps bringing the conversation back
to the uncomfortable topic orsomething you don't want to talk
about?
Jess (01:33):
How can flipping the script be beneficial in the
professional setting?
Randi (01:36):
Are there any situations where it's better not to change
the subject?
Jess (01:40):
How can I practice the skill of flipping the script?
Randi (01:43):
And what should I do if my attempts to change the
subject fail?
Jess (01:47):
Ooh, that's a good one.
So first, let's talk about whatdoes flipping the script
actually
Randi (01:54):
So flipping the script is essentially the art of
redirecting a conversation orsometimes diffusing a
conversation.
It's about knowing when and howto change the subject in a way
that feels natural andrespectful.
Jess (02:08):
This skill, it is not gaslighting.
It is.
It is none of those.
negative kind of connotation.
You're not trying to
Randi (02:14):
control the narrative.
Jess (02:16):
Correct.
Randi (02:17):
You're just trying to, maybe, gently move from
something that is negative.
It's maybe the person can't readthe room or, they're going into
a territory that's triggeringfor you or something else.
So it's redirecting.
Jess (02:31):
Exactly.
And this is a skill that'suseful when that conversation
starts to feel uncomfortable orinvasive or unproductive,
whether it's steering away fromgossip or deflecting unwanted
personal questions.
Because people do that.
And you're like
Randi (02:46):
yeah, what do I say?
How do I react?
Yeah,
Jess (02:49):
exactly.
Or shifting the focus in aheated discussion.
Flipping the script is going toallow you to, control of the
narrative in a sense, but it'sgoing to actually allow you to
diffuse it.
So you are not going to have togo down somebody else's path or
a path that may not be verycomfortable or easy.
It could be dangerous for you.
This topic came up becausesomebody was telling me they had
(03:10):
gotten home late, they were inan Uber at I don't know,
midnight, and somebody wastalking and then all of a sudden
they said some reallyuncomfortable things and they
were like, Oh, here I am bymyself with this dude.
And they were like, I don't knowwhat to do.
And I was like, okay, that'swhen you have to diffuse it or
change it or shift it back.
You got to flip the narrative orflip the script on that one.
(03:33):
And that way it goes back tobeing comfortable.
Randi (03:35):
And this saying comes from storytelling and film.
filmmaking where flipping thescript refers to a sudden change
in the direction or perspectiveof the story.
So in conversations, it's likehitting the refresh button or
like the do over button.
I like that you're rewriting thenarrative in real time, you're
guiding the dialogue in a waythat feels more aligned with
(03:56):
your needs or values, or a morepositive flow.
Jess (04:00):
It's like imagining you're at, the dinner table with a
relative that asked thatuncomfortable question of, so
have you finally got a job?
Randi (04:08):
Yeah.
Jess (04:09):
And you're just like, or do
Randi (04:09):
you finally have a boyfriend?
Why aren't you married?
Why aren't you
Jess (04:12):
married?
Where are your kids?
Do you own a house?
And you're just like these areuncomfortable.
So as women, it affects usbecause we often feel the need
to be polite, Say nice things,avoid conflict.
Even if we endure uncomfortableconversations, we're expected to
do that for the sake of harmony,peacemaking, which is bullshit.
Randi (04:33):
Yeah, I'm rolling my eyes because when you do that, you're
just taking that on and that canlead to stress that can lead to
resentment that can lead tofeelings like you don't have a
voice and that you're oppressedin certain situations.
And when you learn how to flipthe script, it really empowers
you to set boundaries with it.
(04:54):
out confrontation becauseusually if you're having a hard
time with this already, you'renot like wanting to jump right
into the deep end of the pool ofconfrontation with somebody.
So this really helps you protectyourself and your bubble and
your mental and emotional wellbeing.
Jess (05:12):
Exactly.
And this is going to help youwith your confidence when you do
have an awkward conversation.
If you have the tools togracefully redirect a
conversation, it can make youfeel like you're more in control
of yourself, not everybody else,but of yourself, whether, again,
you're at a family gathering, awork meeting, or you're on that
weird, awkward date thatsomebody's asking you stuff and
(05:35):
you're just like how do I answerthis?
Randi (05:37):
How can we all embrace this skill and make it part of
our everyday lives?
Let's break it down.
Jess (05:43):
First, we have to practice the art of redirection.
We need to use phrases such as,Oh, that's interesting, but have
you ever thought about blank?
Or, I was just thinking about.
And that can go ahead andtransition the conversation away
from whatever they're talkingabout.
Randi (06:02):
Another way is to acknowledge and then redirect.
So you could say, I hear you,but I'm curious what you think
about this and lead into adifferent answer.
topic, so you can be like, Istill want to know your
thoughts, but let's talk aboutthoughts about this that are
good thoughts.
Jess (06:22):
Well, it's not even that I want to hear, I want to hear
your thoughts is I hear whatyou're saying, however, and then
you can change the subject,right?
The otherwise is normalizing.
your boundary setting.
You know us in boundaries.
We love our boundariesboundaries.
In fact, we have a friend whohas Randy going boundaries,
bitch, as her ringtone, which Ithink is hilarious.
(06:43):
Okay, so it is okay to say no.
I know we haven't said that in along time, but it is okay to say
no if you are uncomfortablesomething.
It's not rude to say, I'm notsure I don't want to talk about
that.
Randi (06:57):
No is a complete sentence.
Jess (06:58):
I know.
And that's, look at me, Icouldn't even do it.
Randi (07:00):
I know.
She's like cringing over there.
And I'm like, why are youcringing?
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,no, no.
Jess (07:06):
One of the things I do a lot of times, I also say, why do
you ask?
Randi (07:10):
And then if somebody says it, redirects it back on them.
So it puts a spotlight, they'retrying to maybe spotlight you or
make you feel uncomfortable andyou're putting that back on
them.
Jess (07:19):
Why do you ask?
And if they tell me, I was justwondering, okay, cool.
And then I move on with theconversation.
So I've never answered them.
And they could ask again, Icould like, Hmm, then that's
when I'm like, well, I'm notsure I want to answer that.
I'm not sure I'm comfortablewith that or that's not
something I really want to talkabout right now, if you want to
be direct.
It is okay that we don't have torespond to everything.
(07:41):
I know we feel as women we haveto answer to everything.
But silence or redirection is ahealthy choice.
Randi (07:47):
Yeah, and I also feel like silence can be an answer
too.
Oh, not
Jess (07:50):
saying something is still saying something.
Randi (07:52):
Yeah, Another step is to show support for others that are
practicing flipping the script.
So how do we do that?
Jess (07:59):
Mm hmm Validate their choices, if someone is changing
the subject respect their shiftand sometimes Randy will do
something and I'm like I hearwhat you're saying, and I
appreciate your boundary BecauseI'm like, I see what you're
doing, I like it, and I got it.
Randi (08:13):
also too, when you practice this yourself, it
encourages others to do the samewithout fear or judgment.
And Jess and I are also like,okay, when we hear your
boundary, we see it, okay,that's good.
And I need to do that too.
I'm not doing this right now.
It's a good reminder.
Yeah.
When you practice it, otherpeople see it.
And that inspires them to do it,
Jess (08:33):
especially if you're going to practice it in what I would
call like a low pressuresituation where you can practice
this.
So that way, the more we do it,when we do get that marathon of,
Oh crap, I have to redirectthis.
Randi (08:44):
Yeah.
When you are in a superstressful situation or with
somebody, that is going toantagonize you.
Jess (08:49):
It just feels more comfortable because it rolls off
your tongue and it's beenpracticed.
Let's go through some scenarioshere.
Cause basically.
People like when we actuallybanter back and forth.
Yeah, and
Randi (08:58):
role play.
What could happen?
So okay, let's say that there issome gossip going around.
So if someone is gossiping, youcan say, I'm not sure about
that.
But speaking of work, did yousee that new project?
Jess (09:12):
Oh, I like that.
So instead
Randi (09:13):
of like the water cooler talk, maybe like a redirect that
you're not gonna engage in thatgossip about the other person.
Jess (09:21):
Yeah.
Or you can say, I haven't heardthat.
Hmm.
Let's go to lunch.
Another is when, oh, my favoriteunsolicited advice.
My God.
Do you know how many people Iget giving me advice as a woman
who does woodworking?
Like seriously, somebody theother day was telling me.
Really?
Make it stop.
They were telling me that, well,you put your hair up, right?
(09:41):
Because you would hate to getyour hair caught in a machine.
Motherfuckers, have you not seenme do, I, I post videos and my
hair is a hot mess and top of myhead.
I cut the little, I wearhoodies, but I cut the little
strings because I don't needthose going into the woodworking
machines and strangling myself.
Anyway, that's my, I'll go backto my, okay, anyway, let's go
back.
When somebody offers unsolicitedadvice.
(10:03):
Try.
Thanks for the input.
I'll think about it.
By the way, have you tried thenew coffee shop?
sometimes I will.
I'll be like, okay, cool.
Thanks.
And then, I'll think about it orI'll give it a try and I move on
because I'm like, whateverthey're trying to help, but I
don't want to encourage it byooh, tell me more because I
don't want to hear more.
Randi (10:20):
Yeah, and I had to learn this very quickly, having a
larger social media following.
that people were going to try totell me, things or say things on
my video about my life.
I had to be like, okay thanks.
And I'll take that inconsideration.
Or Yeah, maybe I'll try that.
And I just, Left it at that.
Jess (10:42):
Let them just let them be, let them do their thing.
My personal favorite was the onethat got mad at you because you
were talking about savings andyou had your car in your ring
and you're like, how do youthink I got this by getting my
savings?
My God.
All right, let's do scenarionumber three.
Let's do personal questions.
Ready?
Randi (10:59):
Okay.
So if someone asks somethingthat's too personal, you can
say, Oh, that's a long story,but tell me, how's your new job
going?
Or how's your new hobby going?
Or how's your new relationship?
Jess (11:11):
Yeah, that's where you go, Ooh, that's complicated.
And then you just move on.
Randi (11:15):
Yeah, I don't have time to go into that right now.
But thanks for asking.
Jess (11:19):
No, don't even say thanks.
Don't even say thanks forasking, because then they're
going to ask again.
And Right?
this is another boundary thatyou're going to put up so you
can still say things like, well,why do you ask?
Again, that's that, why do youask?
Randi (11:32):
Redirect.
Jess (11:33):
Yeah.
Hmm.
That's interesting.
Okay, so let's go through and doour have you ever thoughts.
Randy, what does flipping thescript mean in a conversation?
Randi (11:42):
It refers to the skill of changing the direction of a
discussion or topic ofconversation tactfully and
smoothly.
This can help steerconversations away from triggers
or uncomfortable subjects andtowards more positive or neutral
ground.
Jess, why do you think it'simportant to change the subject
with tact and gracefully?
Jess (12:04):
If we can do it gracefully, it helps maintain
really healthy boundaries andpositive interactions.
When we become negative, it justmakes it feel awkward and
everybody gets weird and theythink there's this bad thing
behind it.
It really just allows you toprotect your mental space
without seeming rude ordisinterested.
It's going to help yourrelationships.
(12:25):
Because these are going to beabout mutual respect and
understanding again.
Let's go back to, the politicaldivide.
I don't need to know what sideyou're on.
You don't need to know what sideI am.
And, I've even been there.
My, my daughter actually calledme out in the car.
I don't know if I've said thisbefore.
We're with a friend of hersthere in the car.
And I was like, so what doesthat flag at your house mean?
(12:47):
And I didn't know, but mydaughter goes, Mom, you're not
allowed to ask that stuffanymore.
Randi (12:54):
You've been put in time out.
I
Jess (12:55):
got put in, I was like, you are probably right.
I'm going to not ask thatquestion.
Randi (13:00):
Well, I got into a huge thing with my sister.
She will not discuss politicswith me.
And I'm like, you are a womanand you should do this and you
should.
And I was like, whatever.
Let them.
I was like, okay, you.
But she put a boundary up withyou.
She did.
And you didn't like it.
I did not like it.
I was like, I'm your big sisterand we don't have, you can't
(13:22):
tell me no.
Jess (13:23):
But she told you no, but the way she did it, she could
have done it with more gracethat says, that's not something
I'm comfortable talking aboutwith you.
I think she was just blunt andsays, I'm not telling you.
Randi (13:32):
Well, she was like, I don't talk about dad with it.
I don't talk about you.
I don't talk about any issues.
Like it's my, and I was like,Oh, she kept her boundaries with
you.
I was like, for once, I waslike, all right, fine.
And then I let it go because Iwas like, whatever that's
something that she feelsstrongly about.
And probably because I wouldn'tlike her answer.
Jess (13:52):
Probably not.
So then Randy, I'm going to askyou, how can I change the
subject without offending theother person then?
Randi (13:58):
So begin by acknowledging that what.
was said before, and thensmoothly transition to a
different topic.
So you might say, I appreciateyour points on that topic.
Have you heard about
Jess (14:11):
blank,
Randi (14:12):
This shows that you were listening.
But then you're guiding theconversation elsewhere.
Jess (14:18):
Oh, I like that.
Because you're not dismissingwhat they said.
You hear them.
You're just not engaging withit.
You're
Randi (14:23):
validating that you were actively listening.
Yeah.
But now you're validating.
Let's move on to a new topic.
Jess (14:30):
Exactly.
So Jess,
Randi (14:31):
what are some signs that you should change the
conversation?
Jess (14:35):
When you feel uncomfortable.
I know as women, we get this.
Okay, I get this.
I know most of y'all get this,this gut feeling.
When you get that gut feeling.
I want you to listen to it.
I don't, we're not going to gointo the deep dives of what that
is or where it is, but when youfeel uncomfortable or stressed
(14:55):
or notice that others seemdisengaged or upset, these are
clear cues that changing thesubject might be best for
everybody there and involved.
Randi (15:06):
Yeah.
Read the room.
Jess (15:07):
Read the room.
Trust your instincts.
They're really, really powerfulindicators of what is going on.
Okay.
And again, if you can't changethe subject and you're so
uncomfortable, literally changeyour body position and say, or
Randi (15:20):
get up and leave the room.
Jess (15:21):
Exactly.
I was gonna say, I have to gouse the restroom.
I'll be right back.
Go to the restroom, not evenjust
Randi (15:27):
by, well,
Jess (15:28):
sometimes you're with like your boss and you're like, you
gotta get back.
So you're like, I'm going to usethe restroom, I'll be right back
or I'm going to get a glass ofwater.
Randi (15:35):
But if you're like in an uncomfortable situation, like on
a date or something like that,get up, get up and leave.
Like you don't.
Oh, anybody, anything.
Jess (15:43):
No, but if you're with family and it's awkward, and
you're like, Oh, we're all stuckin this house because it's
snowing outside.
Be like, I'm going to use therestroom.
I'll be right back.
And that's what I teach people.
Literally get up and leave andcome back.
And if they're still on thatdamn subject, try to change it
again.
And if not, be like, Oh, youknow what, I just remembered mom
wanted something and get up andleave.
Randi (16:03):
And don't let people gaslight you either.
Or make you feel bad for doingthat and he said we're stuck in
a house with snow that literallyhappened to me I was stuck in a
cabin.
I imagined a cabin.
We were snowed in in yosemiteand Somebody made a comment that
was very very upsetting to me SoI got up and I left and I went
(16:23):
to the bedroom and then theystarted throwing a fit like I
was being like a diva and I saidI literally got up and left
because I didn't want to engagein this and because It's so
heavy on my heart right now whathas just happened and that
you're talking about.
And I didn't want to feed intothat.
I didn't want to create moredrama.
I wasn't being dramatic byleaving.
(16:45):
I said I was setting a boundaryby leaving and giving myself
some space to calm down becauseI didn't want to engage in that
comment that you made.
Jess (16:54):
this is the part where we do it with Grace when you say,
you know what, I'll be back.
I'm going to go.
I'm going to go lay down for aminute.
I've got a little bit of aheadache.
Or I just, I need to go getsomething out of the other room.
You don't have to lie about aheadache, sometimes I just,
Randi (17:06):
I need a minute.
Jess (17:07):
Yeah.
I'll, you know what?
I'll be right back.
I need a minute.
Whatever that means.
If you don't want to engage withthem, it is okay to excuse
yourself.
It's also okay.
What Randy did just to be like,I left now.
Maybe she was being a divabecause she was throwing her
arms up and waving her featherboa.
Yeah.
And she was like, I'm out ofhere.
I put a crown on and stompedout.
Well, I couldn't really go.
And she threw herself on her bedlike Scarlett O'Hara.
(17:29):
Okay, that's a diva and I can'timagine her doing that, but hey,
well, maybe she did.
Okay.
So Randy, can you give me someexamples of flipping the script?
What phrases I can use?
Randi (17:40):
Okay.
So speaking of which it remindsme of, or speaking of which that
reminds me of.
Or, that's a very interestingpoint, but I've been really
excited to talk about this.
I see where you're coming from,but also have you considered or
have you thought dot dot dot?
Or let's table this for now.
(18:01):
I was curious about
Jess (18:03):
Blank.
Yeah, I like that last one.
I like that.
Can we table this or can we putthis, is it couch it?
Randi (18:08):
Is it couch it?
Pause.
I would say let's pause this,like now.
Couch it?
I don't know if I, is
Jess (18:12):
that the right phrase?
Maybe it is table it.
Randi (18:14):
I don't know.
Table it.
Let's table it.
Well,
Jess (18:15):
but I thought we could put like couch.
No, it is.
Yeah.
I want to add a couch to itapparently.
Randi (18:20):
I need to lay on a couch right now.
Okay, Jess, what if someonebrings The conversation back to
that topic again, and it's justso uncomfortable.
They will, they won't let it go,
Jess (18:29):
right?
Because you've already left.
You've already peed.
You've already got water.
You've already said you had aheadache.
You've already found yourmother.
Okay.
So I want you to remain firm andgentle.
You can say something like, Ithink we've covered that quite
extensively.
I'd really like to focus onblank for now.
Setting boundaries is key toyour mental wellness, Honestly,
when you can set theseboundaries, I've got a friend,
(18:50):
she's on her HOA meeting.
She's so damn good at this.
I sat there and watched herbecause I've never seen her at
work.
I know what she does, but I onlyknow her I see her when she
comes, sounds creepy now, I seeher when she comes home all
dressed up because she livesacross the street.
Yeah.
But anyway, I always see herlike in sweats and t shirts and
whatever else.
Literally pulled out theprofessional thing in the middle
of this HOA meeting and said,you know what let's maybe she
(19:12):
said Let's table that for nowLet's hold off on that right now
and let's let's redirect back tothis and whatever and I was just
like boom
Randi (19:18):
boom boom boom Boom, huh?
Jess (19:20):
I was so impressed.
I had to tell her later.
I was like damn, that's goodShe's like I do this for a
living.
I was like, man, you're
Randi (19:25):
good.
You're like you just totallyboss, babe She did she
Jess (19:28):
did it So well, she set the boundary and she said, we'll
talk about this later and gaveit a later date.
All right, Randy, how canflipping the script be
beneficial in professionalsettings like this answer?
Yeah.
Randi (19:39):
Because you are keeping the discussion productive.
You're keeping it on track.
You're keeping you know howthere are people always say,
that's another meeting thatcould have been an email.
Yes.
Because people just go on and onand on and on because a lot of
people don't know how toredirect and keep people on
tasks or read the
Jess (19:59):
room
Randi (19:59):
right and so This is like something that can be really
beneficial, especially in theworkplace, to keep things on
track and going and moving.
And it's really good too.
And networking, it helps youmake meaningful connections
while avoiding, potentialconflicts.
Jess (20:17):
Nice.
Nice.
And sometimes when you have abunch of ADHDers, you have to be
kept on track.
Randi (20:22):
Oh, yeah.
Like Jess and I are always like,Hey, girl, you're going down a
rabbit hole, rule it back in.
Usually one of us is off.
And the other one's trying topull the other one in.
Okay, Jess, are there anysituations where it's better not
to change the subject and justlet it lie?
Jess (20:43):
I say yes.
If it is a topic with a verysignificant emotional importance
to someone else involved, itmight be better to fully explore
it unless it's going to causeyou distress.
It's that whole, if it's goingto cause more harm than good,
then no, don't do it.
Sometimes active listening canreally be more beneficial than
(21:03):
diverting the conversation.
Right.
But you have to be in a placewhere you're ready to hear this.
Yeah.
Randi (21:08):
You don't want to be constantly like avoiding
somebody that's trying to have aSerious conversation with you.
There's like a fine line there.
If somebody's trying to broach asubject with you and you feel
like you owe it to them to hearthem out, then, actively listen.
But if it's something that'striggering for you, definitely
use the redirect techniques.
Jess (21:28):
Exactly.
So how do we practice the skillof flipping the script or
changing that conversation ordirection?
Randi (21:35):
Practice with friends or family or just repeat, the
sayings out to yourself and,work it into as Jess likes to
call it, low stakes conversationor like low stress, like not
jumping into the frying pan withsomebody like you're ready to
fight to the death with about,politics while you're in line
for Starbucks.
Okay.
And also, I think it's veryimportant to pay attention to
(21:56):
people's body language and theirverbal cues and half of,
conversation is body language.
And so you really need to kindof like pay attention to how the
person is acting.
And the more that you practiceit, the more naturally it will
come to you, especially in thoseneeded situations.
Jess (22:16):
It's like those people, like when you're backing up and
they keep getting close to youand you back up again and
they're getting close to you andthey don't get that you're
trying to get out of theirbubble or keep them out of
yours.
And we've all seen that.
And you finally eventually haveto say, Hey, hang on.
I'm actually stepping backbecause I need a little bit more
space.
I've had to actually put my handup and do that because I'm like,
okay, you're going to corner meand then I'm going to flip.
(22:37):
Yeah.
I'm not going to flip thescript.
I'm like bubble boy.
Do you see?
I'm going to just flip.
Randi (22:41):
How funny.
So Jess, what do you do if yourattempts to change the subject
or conversation has failed?
Jess (22:50):
Well, first I want you to acknowledge and be proud of
yourself for trying, becausethis is part of just having the
grace in it.
Randi (22:57):
Learning, growing.
Jess (22:58):
Exactly.
You can try approaching thetopic differently.
If it doesn't work, you considerexcusing yourself from the
conversation if it becomes toouncomfortable, whatever it is
that you need for thoseboundaries.
If you need to be a diva becausethey're not hearing you, fine,
that's great.
I'm gonna make fun of her for awhile now.
And if
Randi (23:17):
they're offended, let them be offended.
Exactly.
Jess (23:20):
So part of it is do what you need to do, and if that
person continually wants toharass or talk about that
subject, that's not somebody Inecessarily want to hang out
with.
And I can literally say, I haveto go now.
I was with somebody, no, I wastalking to somebody the other
day, and they were like, yeah,this person was really rude, she
was saying this and that, shegoes, you know what, I just
left.
And I was like, cool.
She goes, yep, I left the party.
(23:41):
I was like, I don't need this.
I don't want to deal with it.
I don't want the drama, becauseit's not my friend, but you know
what, I'm just gonna peace out.
I don't need any of this crap.
Yeah, exactly.
And that is a literal fact.
Boundary of not wanting to causedrama
Randi (23:53):
and learning to redirect, conversations is such a powerful
tool.
You can learn to reclaim yourvoice with this.
You can learn to protect yourmental health.
You can learn to protect, yourthoughts and your values.
It gives you so much confidence,I feel too, when you can
navigate conversations.
Jess (24:13):
Oh, yeah.
That's why there's so manythousands of books about
breathing and havingconversations and, and how to
have that conversation.
And it is about practice.
And unfortunately, we learn aswe grow.
So the older we get, the betterwe feel about it.
I wish I had these skills when Iwas back in my 20s, we have them
now and that's what matters islearning as you grow.
Randi (24:34):
And I feel like too that this is such a good form of self
care.
You wouldn't think, sometimes wethink of all these frivolous
things as self care, butlearning to use your voice in a
powerful way and empoweryourself is a huge form of self
care.
Jess (24:50):
It is.
It is.
Randi (24:51):
So thanks for tuning in to today's episode.
If this resonated with you,please share it with a friend
who could use some tips onflipping the script.
Jess (24:59):
And as always, take care of yourselves and each other
until next time.
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