February 5, 2025 • 18 mins
Is your ADHD toolbox in need of a powerful, yet simple tool? In today’s episode, we dive deep into the Body Doubling Technique for ADHD, unravelling how this practice can transform your productivity and emotional wellness. Join Randi Owsley, LMSW, and Jessica Bullwinkle, LMFT, two licensed psychotherapists with over 23 years of experience in women’s mental health, as they discuss practical strategies for using body doubling to foster focus and accomplish daily tasks. Whether you're battling feelings of isolation or seeking everyday coping strategies, this episode will enlighten and inspire you to embrace body doubling as a pathway to empowerment throughout your ADHD journey.
Navigating the path of ADHD as a woman can often feel like a solitary journey, but it doesn't have to be. Embracing techniques like body doubling and seeking ADHD accountability partners can transform your daily struggles into stories of success. We understand how vital finding effective, relatable coping strategies and support resources is in empowering you towards personal growth and mental resilience.
In our upcoming podcast episodes, we're diving heart first into a treasure trove of topics that paint the full picture of the ADHD experience for women. We understand that overcoming ADHD challenges is no small feat—it requires courage, resilience, and a community that genuinely gets it. Together, we'll uncover personal growth strategies, from time management wizardry and building life-enhancing habits to embracing mindfulness practices tailored for the unique minds of ADHD women. Our mission is to empower you to navigate your path with grace and confidence, equipping you with wellness and coping mechanisms that celebrate your strengths and embrace your challenges. Your mental health is a journey worth cherishing, and with each step forward, we're here to remind you—you're not walking it alone.
FAQs
How does body doubling help women with ADHD?
Can body doubling be done virtually?
What tasks are best suited for body doubling?
Do both people need to have ADHD for body doubling to work?
How do I find a body double if I live alone?
Is body doubling suitable for every woman with ADHD?
Can body doubling improve my emotional wellness?
What should I look for in a good body double?
How do I introduce the concept of body doubling to someone who doesn’t have ADHD?
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The Women’s Mental Health Podcast, hosted by licensed therapists Randi Owsley MSW and Jessica Bullwinkle LMFT, PMH-C, offers educational and entertaining mental health content. This is not therapy or a substitute for professional care. No therapeutic relationship is formed by listening or engaging. Some links may be affiliate links, which may earn us a small commission at no extra cost to you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Randi (00:00):
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
(00:02):
I'm randy.
I'm And I'm Jess.
And we are two licensedpsychotherapists, and this is a
safe space where we talk aboutmental health, well being, and
strategies for coping withlife's challenges.
And how all of this is normal,and you are not alone.
Jess (00:16):
Today, we're going to talk about a topic that's come up a
lot for me lately.
It's called body doubling andespecially because it relates to
ADHD.
Randi (00:24):
So if you have ever felt like you couldn't get started on
a task, until somebody else wasaround, you've already
experienced a little taste ofwhat body doubling is.
So find
Jess (00:35):
us and more information at womensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
Randi (00:40):
Have you ever had these thoughts?
How does body doubling helpwomen with ADHD?
Jess (00:45):
body doubling be done virtually?
Randi (00:48):
What tasks are best suited for body doubling?
Do both people need to have ADHDfor this to work?
How do I find somebody that canhelp me body double if I live
alone?
Jess (00:59):
And is it suitable for everybody with ADHD?
Randi (01:02):
And can it improve my emotional wellness?
Jess (01:04):
What should I look for in a good body double?
That sounds funny.
What should I look for in a good
Randi (01:09):
body double, right?
Should I look just like me?
Like you're, like, auditioningsomebody for a role.
And how do I introduce theconcept of body doubling to
someone who maybe doesn't haveit?
ADHD or isn't familiar with it.
Jess (01:21):
Hmm.
And you are actuallyinterviewing for a role.
Because, we'll explain it a bit,but yeah, that's what you're
doing.
So let's first go through anddefine what body doubling is.
Randi (01:31):
So at its core, body doubling is the practice of
working alongside another personto stay focused and productive.
Jess (01:39):
The idea isn't exactly to work on the same task either
it's just having someonephysically present or even
virtually present to help youstay accountable and on track.
Randi (01:49):
And I was talking to Jess a little bit earlier and I was
saying this is why those Twitchstreaming rooms that are so
popular, it's come to work withme or do homework with me or
like a study room so people cando tasks together even virtually
so they feel a little bit moreat home.
motivated.
This is a great strategy forindividuals with ADHD who
(02:11):
struggle with starting orcompleting tasks because of
challenges with executivefunction, focusing, motivation.
These things all come into play.
And that helps when you feellike you're being held
responsible.
Well, it's
Jess (02:24):
not
Randi (02:25):
even like
Jess (02:25):
starting it, it's staying In it.
I know I can start it and thenI'm like doo doo doo doo doo.
Right.
And next thing you know, I'msomewhere in the garden.
So the idea of body doubling, itserves as like an anchor.
It keeps you in place and itkeeps that structure that you
need for a sense ofaccountability.
So like my daughter and I havedone this.
She's like, Mom, I'm struggling.
(02:46):
Can I just come work with you?
Sure.
You know, I'll be sitting thereworking on the podcast and she's
sitting on the floor doing herhomework.
We're not talking, we're notdoing anything besides our own
work.
It's just our presence.
Exactly.
Randi (02:57):
And I've even heard this in other terms of relationships
too sometimes a partner can feellike, disconnected, and even if
you don't enjoy what yourpartner enjoys, if you just go
sit with them while they'redoing it, and you're around it
makes them feel Yeah.
And connected.
Jess (03:14):
Yeah.
Sometimes my husband will, siton his computer and he'll play
his game and I'll sit and do mything next to him, even though
we're not really talking ordoing our things, but we're
still together in the same room.
So it's I guess the same thing.
Yeah.
So
Randi (03:25):
parallel.
Yeah.
Like parallel play.
Yeah.
With kids when you're younger.
So where does this idea of bodydoubling come from?
Jess (03:34):
It's not a new concept.
It's gotten really popularthough, because of platforms
like TikTok and YouTube.
Just these young kids, youngkids, these younger generations.
are out there and they'relearning about body doubling.
Randi (03:49):
the term body doubling specifically became more well
known thanks to ADHD advocates,especially on social media and
lots of generations sharingtheir experiences with their
mental health and their tipsonline.
So it's become more.
Mainstream to talk about thiscurrently exactly.
(04:10):
This is what we did in college.
That's how I study buddy.
Yeah, a
Jess (04:13):
study buddy or an
Randi (04:14):
accountability partner.
Like when you work out, it's thesame thing for keeping on tasks
or your mental health.
Like just having somebody inyour corner can be so powerful
Jess (04:24):
and a lot of women are already doing this because they
don't realize they have ADHD andthey need this.
They're doing this becausethey've already gotten to this
point where they have thesesocial skills.
And their social skills.
My brain.
Randi (04:36):
It is offline today.
It is off.
Mine was offline last week andyours is offline.
Oh my goodness So let's talkabout how this affects
specifically women and theirmental health So, ADHD in women
presents differently than itdoes in men or boys.
Many women go undiagnosed untiladulthood, like Jess and I.
(05:00):
Yeah, I was, what, early 40s?
And by the time that you realizeyou do have ADHD, you've
internalized your feelings.
You've created a lot of anxietyfeeling about this.
You feel a lot of shame or youfeel inadequate because we have
struggled to meet socialexpectations or we have
struggled to fit.
the norm.
when you have ADHD, it leads todifficulties in managing
(05:24):
responsibilities, maintainingfocus.
And we are very well known forprocrastinating.
And I always felt too guilty.
Like, why couldn't I stay ontask?
Why would I always lose focus?
Jess (05:36):
I had a professor in grad school says that, you
procrastinate because it's aform of opposition.
And I was like, Oh, so I'moppositional.
Then great.
No, no, no.
I'm, I'm ADHD, which is why Iwaited the last damn minute to
turn things in or do things.
And it makes more sense now thatI know.
And even back then, I did bodydoubling.
For things like folding myclothes.
I talk on the phone while Iclean my phone.
(05:58):
I clean my phone.
Folded my clothes.
Oh my god.
Today is just out of control.
Sorry guys.
I'm out of control today.
Apparently, I'm not even gonnasure if I can edit any of this.
Randi (06:06):
Well, it's the same thing.
When Jess and I get together,we're able to focus.
And boom, boom, boom, put outall these tasks when we're not
in the same room.
We're like, Oh, yeah, we'll dothat.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, we'll do that.
And so it's just a way to belike that you feel like you're
being held accountable.
I feel like as women, we alwaysget so overwhelmed with all of
(06:26):
the things that we're jugglingcaregiving, work, personal
goals, whatever habits, likewe're trying to do it all.
Jess (06:33):
this is exactly where body doubling can be such a helpful
tool.
Yes.
We're always talking about whattools can we use, what tools can
we share with you guys?
Because what it does is itprovides external structure and
accountability.
And it really reduces a lot ofthat mental load that comes with
managing all of these taskssolo.
Even if you're on differenttasks, you're not by yourself,
(06:54):
you're going to keep working onwhat you're working on.
And so it just is another toolto do.
If you're curious about how touse body doubling, let's go
ahead and let's share somepractical tips.
Yes.
Randi (07:05):
First, find somebody that you can body double with.
This could be a friend, a coworker, a family member, or you
can join an online co workinggroup specifically for ADHD or
productivity or studying.
And then you're going to want tomove into what, Jess?
You want to set a very clear
Jess (07:24):
goal.
So before you even start, agreeon what you're going to be
working on.
The clearer the task, the moreeffective the session will be,
and that way when somebody can,like with my daughter what you
doing?
What are you supposed to bedoing?
Well, even
Randi (07:36):
just and I were like, okay, we want to do we want to
record two podcasts And then wewant to work on our website and
then we want to work on oursocial media and we're like,
okay we give ourselves like anoutline of the day that we've
you know Carved out to spendtime on this and then you know,
somebody goes into the weeds.
We're like, what are you doing?
Come back to the task.
(07:57):
So what's another thing we canuse?
using technology so like Zoom,Twitch, Focusmate, these are
great virtual hangouts for bodydoubling.
So even if you can't bephysically in the same room, you
can still see somebody and haveeach other, check in and keep on
tasks and stay motivated.
The other thing I
Jess (08:16):
want to talk about that was keeping our sessions short.
You really, if focus is going tobe the challenge, we have to do
like short bursts, the chunkingidea.
don't do more than 25 minutes offocused work followed by a five
minute break.
Randi (08:31):
Yeah, I have the Pomodoro method.
Timer on my computer so I, I canset it, but I usually do like 15
minutes and then break 5 to 15minutes and, go again and again
if I'm having a hard time,staying on tasks.
Jess (08:46):
And I will say though, if you're using this method but
you're all in a roll and you'relike, no, I can keep going, keep
going.
Just keep going.
And then stop when you're like,Oh, nope, there goes that.
I lost that thought.
And that way you can get up.
I usually get up, walk around,do something else.
And then I come back.
Randi (09:00):
another good thing is to experiment with different types
of styles of this body doublingthat might work for you.
Maybe you like silent, maybe youlike collaborative sessions,
maybe you want to chat, maybeyou want to listen to music,
there's all sorts of differentworking styles.
That can, people can benefitwith doing this.
Jess (09:20):
That's true.
Do you need to sit side by sidewith somebody?
Do you need to have them acrossthe room?
Do you just need them to besomewhere in the room with you?
Do
Randi (09:27):
you need them to check in with you?
Do you need them, to discuss theplan with you or do you need
them, just to Encourage you.
Yeah, exactly.
There's
Jess (09:36):
nothing wrong with saying you've got this.
Let's tackle it.
My daughter is always going, gomom, you got this mom.
You've got this mom.
She is such the greatencourager.
You've got this.
Little cheerleader.
She is.
She is just my littlecheerleader.
Let's go through and answer someof our have you evers.
Randi (09:53):
Okay, so what is body doubling in the context of how
it relates to ADHD?
Jess (09:59):
Body doubling is a strategy or a tool that has
another person present to help aperson with ADHD focus better
and complete tasks.
The body doubling serves as asubtle accountability partner,
even if they aren't activelyassisting with the task.
If they're, they're not doingyour homework, they're not
helping you clean your room,they're doing a task with you,
(10:22):
so that way you're both workingon something.
I guess it's also so you don'tfeel lonely.
Yeah, like you're not missingsomething.
You're not missing
Randi (10:28):
out.
Same thing like whenever I cleanthe house like I never want to
clean but if my partner steps inand helps me with it, it gets
done.
He's not helping you.
He's participating.
If he is also doing his partthen it goes by so much faster
and I don't feel the load on myshoulders like alone or any type
(10:48):
of resentment.
With that.
So how does body doubling helpwomen specifically with ADHD?
Jess (10:54):
For a lot of women who have ADHD, body doubling helps
lower the feelings of overwhelmand procrastination, especially
when we have tasks that we don'twant to do, say, Randy's
cleaning the house.
The presence of having anotherperson increases our dopamine
levels in the brain and it aidsto focus on productivity.
So that's what it is.
(11:15):
It's a dopamine hit, nice, wecan have cheese and body
doubling.
Yeah, there goes our dopamine.
Get some chocolate in there.
We're all good.
All right.
So Randi, can body doubling bedone virtually?
Randi (11:26):
Yes, it can be effective and done virtually through video
calls or even having someone,working side by side on their
own tasks, even on a Zoom call,or streaming live.
And this really helps expandsthe access that we have of
utilizing this coping mechanism,especially if we live in a rural
(11:46):
area, or we, work from home andwe need more accountability.
Jess (11:51):
I've even seen my daughter do her homework with somebody
else who's doing their homework.
via, they're on like, I don'tknow, Zoom or whatever platform
they're on, or they're on acall.
And I'm like, how are you guysboth doing homework?
You're on the phone?
Oh, or you're on FaceTime orwhatever it is.
Yeah, FaceTime, that's the wordI'm thinking.
I'm like, what's that wordcalled?
What's that
Randi (12:09):
thingy?
What
Jess (12:10):
is that thing we use all the time?
Yeah.
But yeah, they're just doing,both doing homework.
And every once in a while,you'll hear somebody chat, and
then they're still doinghomework.
It's just an interesting thing.
Randi (12:18):
Yeah, and there's whole communities like that too, so
Discord too also has a wholevoice chat community that you
can use and different discordsand they have streaming where
you can get on video and streamand talk at the same time and so
there's lots of free openplatforms that you can do this
in.
Everybody in my house hasdiscord but me.
(12:39):
I'm the
Jess (12:39):
only one that like
Randi (12:40):
I just got
Jess (12:41):
it and I'm like, oh the
Randi (12:42):
whole new world I'm
Jess (12:44):
not doing i'm not doing it.
All right, randy.
So what tasks are best suitedfor body doubling?
Randi (12:49):
So it is really beneficial for tasks that might
seem daunting or even boringthings that you don't want to do
at all, household chores,paperwork, your taxes, God,
Jess (12:59):
don't even talk about that.
Even
Randi (13:00):
just, projects or papers you're working on.
It's all about finding a taskthat you're struggling with and
that you could really usesupport with while you're doing
it.
So if it's like something thatyou keep putting at the bottom
of your list, it might besomething that you want, to try
to do with a body double.
Jess (13:15):
That's actually not a bad idea.
I keep trying to figure outbetter ways to get my accounting
done.
I'm trying 30 minutes a day.
I'm trying.
Yeah.
Okay, if I do this, then I cango do this.
We should do a
Randi (13:25):
thing where we just like, even just we only live, like 20
minutes from each other, buteven just virtually okay, we're
gonna do our talk stuff for ourbusinesses today.
Jess (13:33):
We wouldn't do it though.
She and I would talk about it.
Okay.
Okay.
So that's why you need tointerview your body double.
Make sure you're going to beproductive versus sidetracking.
Next thing you know, shopping.
Randi (13:44):
That leads into, do both people need to have ADHD?
Jess (13:49):
I'm going to say no.
Probably a good idea.
The person acting as your bodydouble doesn't need to have
ADHD.
Their role is mainly to bepresent, and it might be better
if they don't have ADHD.
Because you really need youranchor and your focus to drive
and complete tasks.
There is something about that.
And again, it's the what you'redoing, where you're going,
(14:09):
right?
Should you be on TikTok rightnow?
Probably not.
Is that part of your homework?
Oh my gosh, the kids.
What was it?
I don't know.
Late, late Saturday night.
Came running out.
Randi (14:20):
It's on! It's on! It's been! My life is over!
Jess (14:24):
Yeah.
And
Randi (14:25):
then like
Jess (14:25):
12 hours later, it's
Randi (14:27):
back!
Jess (14:27):
Yeah.
It's back.
First thing when I woke up, it'sback on! And I was like, wait,
what's on?
What I don't even
Randi (14:32):
know what.
Yeah.
Fine.
Whatever.
Jess (14:34):
Okay.
How do I find a body double if Ilive
Randi (14:36):
alone?
Like we talked about, there's somany online communities, there's
forums, there's one dedicatedspecifically to this, like
chatting, or study groups, oreven ADHD support groups that
offer resources for you toconnect with each other.
Also, reach out within yourfriend group, or your social
circle, or your professionalnetworks.
(14:56):
Maybe, you're in PR, so youreach out to your PR network.
Working group hey, do you guysjust want to even go to, a
coffee shop and I'll take ourlaptops and, work on this?
Or do you want to, I'll zoom orwhatever it is.
There's lots of ways to findthat even if you don't have an
immediate, physical socialcircle.
So Jess, how is body doublingSuitable for women with ADHD.
Jess (15:21):
Some women find it very, very effective.
It's success really can varybased upon your individual
preference and the nature ofwhatever task you're doing.
It's really about experimentingand seeing if this technique
works for you or works for thetask that you're working on.
And again, you have to make surethat you're working with the
right body double, because noteverybody is going to be
(15:43):
suitable depending on whatyou're working on.
Randi (15:45):
So it's okay too to like test out different groups and
see where you find mm-hmm Yourgroove for that task.
And maybe you have different,friends or accountability
partners that do body doublewith for different things.
Jess (15:55):
Yeah.
I, I have a friend that, we sitand chat and I can clean out my
closet, just put my headset onclean out my closet, fold my
clothes, walk around the house,whatever that is.
But she's not somebody that Icould actually sit and do my
accounting with.
Randi (16:05):
Mm-hmm
Jess (16:06):
And so I know that.
Okay.
Oh, here we go then.
What should I look for in a goodbody double?
Randi (16:12):
Look for somebody who is understanding, patient, aware of
challenges that you might befacing with ADHD.
Someone you feel comfortablewith and that has the right kind
of emotional supportiveenvironment for you If that's
something that you need, to leanon depending on what the task
is.
Jess (16:29):
Yeah, if you need your cheerleader, call my daughter.
She'll be like, yeah,
Randi (16:31):
you can do it! So just how do you introduce this
concept of body doubling tosomeone who maybe doesn't have
ADHD and doesn't struggle withkeeping on tasks?
Jess (16:41):
Basically, explain it as simply having someone present to
help you stay focused andcomplete your task.
An accountability partner.
I think that's
Randi (16:48):
something that's more well known, for somebody that's
not in the mental healthcommunity, and so
Jess (16:53):
Yeah, explain how it is Beneficial to you and how you
would like to help them as wellif it helps them Sometimes like
I have a friend that we do ourerrands together because we both
were pretty busy and she's likeI got Aaron Do you want to go?
I was like sure we chat and Iguess when she'll time to talk
and then you get shit doneExactly.
And so that's the same thingIt's like body doubling with
(17:15):
Aaron to get to hang out with afriend when sometimes she does
hers.
Sometimes I do mine Mm hmmdepends on what we're doing.
So that works.
Okay, so It's such a simpleconcept, but it is such a
powerful tool especially us withADHD, if you have ADHD.
Really look at body doubling.
Randi (17:34):
Yeah.
Work on creating a supportiveenvironment for yourself,
whether it's in person orvirtual.
Give yourself the opportunity tothrive.
thank you for joining us ontoday's episode of the Women's
Mental Health Podcast.
If you found this helpful,please share it with a friend,
leave us a review, or even trybody doubling with someone you
know.
Jess (17:54):
Remember, it's okay to ask for help and to find creative
ways to support your mentalhealth.
You deserve it, especially ifyou have ADHD.
Really, truly, I know I'm allover the place today.
I swear I took my meds.
But until next time, take careand be kind to yourself.
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
(00:02):
I'm randy.
I'm And I'm Jess.
And we are two licensedpsychotherapists, and this is a
safe space where we talk aboutmental health, well being, and
strategies for coping withlife's challenges.
And how all of this is normal,and you are not alone.
Jess (00:16):
Today, we're going to talk about a topic that's come up a
lot for me lately.
It's called body doubling andespecially because it relates to
ADHD.
Randi (00:24):
So if you have ever felt like you couldn't get started on
a task, until somebody else wasaround, you've already
experienced a little taste ofwhat body doubling is.
So find
Jess (00:35):
us and more information at womensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
Randi (00:40):
Have you ever had these thoughts?
How does body doubling helpwomen with ADHD?
Jess (00:45):
body doubling be done virtually?
Randi (00:48):
What tasks are best suited for body doubling?
Do both people need to have ADHDfor this to work?
How do I find somebody that canhelp me body double if I live
alone?
Jess (00:59):
And is it suitable for everybody with ADHD?
Randi (01:02):
And can it improve my emotional wellness?
Jess (01:04):
What should I look for in a good body double?
That sounds funny.
What should I look for in a good
Randi (01:09):
body double, right?
Should I look just like me?
Like you're, like, auditioningsomebody for a role.
And how do I introduce theconcept of body doubling to
someone who maybe doesn't haveit?
ADHD or isn't familiar with it.
Jess (01:21):
Hmm.
And you are actuallyinterviewing for a role.
Because, we'll explain it a bit,but yeah, that's what you're
doing.
So let's first go through anddefine what body doubling is.
Randi (01:31):
So at its core, body doubling is the practice of
working alongside another personto stay focused and productive.
Jess (01:39):
The idea isn't exactly to work on the same task either
it's just having someonephysically present or even
virtually present to help youstay accountable and on track.
Randi (01:49):
And I was talking to Jess a little bit earlier and I was
saying this is why those Twitchstreaming rooms that are so
popular, it's come to work withme or do homework with me or
like a study room so people cando tasks together even virtually
so they feel a little bit moreat home.
motivated.
This is a great strategy forindividuals with ADHD who
(02:11):
struggle with starting orcompleting tasks because of
challenges with executivefunction, focusing, motivation.
These things all come into play.
And that helps when you feellike you're being held
responsible.
Well, it's
Jess (02:24):
not
Randi (02:25):
even like
Jess (02:25):
starting it, it's staying In it.
I know I can start it and thenI'm like doo doo doo doo doo.
Right.
And next thing you know, I'msomewhere in the garden.
So the idea of body doubling, itserves as like an anchor.
It keeps you in place and itkeeps that structure that you
need for a sense ofaccountability.
So like my daughter and I havedone this.
She's like, Mom, I'm struggling.
(02:46):
Can I just come work with you?
Sure.
You know, I'll be sitting thereworking on the podcast and she's
sitting on the floor doing herhomework.
We're not talking, we're notdoing anything besides our own
work.
It's just our presence.
Exactly.
Randi (02:57):
And I've even heard this in other terms of relationships
too sometimes a partner can feellike, disconnected, and even if
you don't enjoy what yourpartner enjoys, if you just go
sit with them while they'redoing it, and you're around it
makes them feel Yeah.
And connected.
Jess (03:14):
Yeah.
Sometimes my husband will, siton his computer and he'll play
his game and I'll sit and do mything next to him, even though
we're not really talking ordoing our things, but we're
still together in the same room.
So it's I guess the same thing.
Yeah.
So
Randi (03:25):
parallel.
Yeah.
Like parallel play.
Yeah.
With kids when you're younger.
So where does this idea of bodydoubling come from?
Jess (03:34):
It's not a new concept.
It's gotten really popularthough, because of platforms
like TikTok and YouTube.
Just these young kids, youngkids, these younger generations.
are out there and they'relearning about body doubling.
Randi (03:49):
the term body doubling specifically became more well
known thanks to ADHD advocates,especially on social media and
lots of generations sharingtheir experiences with their
mental health and their tipsonline.
So it's become more.
Mainstream to talk about thiscurrently exactly.
(04:10):
This is what we did in college.
That's how I study buddy.
Yeah, a
Jess (04:13):
study buddy or an
Randi (04:14):
accountability partner.
Like when you work out, it's thesame thing for keeping on tasks
or your mental health.
Like just having somebody inyour corner can be so powerful
Jess (04:24):
and a lot of women are already doing this because they
don't realize they have ADHD andthey need this.
They're doing this becausethey've already gotten to this
point where they have thesesocial skills.
And their social skills.
My brain.
Randi (04:36):
It is offline today.
It is off.
Mine was offline last week andyours is offline.
Oh my goodness So let's talkabout how this affects
specifically women and theirmental health So, ADHD in women
presents differently than itdoes in men or boys.
Many women go undiagnosed untiladulthood, like Jess and I.
(05:00):
Yeah, I was, what, early 40s?
And by the time that you realizeyou do have ADHD, you've
internalized your feelings.
You've created a lot of anxietyfeeling about this.
You feel a lot of shame or youfeel inadequate because we have
struggled to meet socialexpectations or we have
struggled to fit.
the norm.
when you have ADHD, it leads todifficulties in managing
(05:24):
responsibilities, maintainingfocus.
And we are very well known forprocrastinating.
And I always felt too guilty.
Like, why couldn't I stay ontask?
Why would I always lose focus?
Jess (05:36):
I had a professor in grad school says that, you
procrastinate because it's aform of opposition.
And I was like, Oh, so I'moppositional.
Then great.
No, no, no.
I'm, I'm ADHD, which is why Iwaited the last damn minute to
turn things in or do things.
And it makes more sense now thatI know.
And even back then, I did bodydoubling.
For things like folding myclothes.
I talk on the phone while Iclean my phone.
(05:58):
I clean my phone.
Folded my clothes.
Oh my god.
Today is just out of control.
Sorry guys.
I'm out of control today.
Apparently, I'm not even gonnasure if I can edit any of this.
Randi (06:06):
Well, it's the same thing.
When Jess and I get together,we're able to focus.
And boom, boom, boom, put outall these tasks when we're not
in the same room.
We're like, Oh, yeah, we'll dothat.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, we'll do that.
And so it's just a way to belike that you feel like you're
being held accountable.
I feel like as women, we alwaysget so overwhelmed with all of
(06:26):
the things that we're jugglingcaregiving, work, personal
goals, whatever habits, likewe're trying to do it all.
Jess (06:33):
this is exactly where body doubling can be such a helpful
tool.
Yes.
We're always talking about whattools can we use, what tools can
we share with you guys?
Because what it does is itprovides external structure and
accountability.
And it really reduces a lot ofthat mental load that comes with
managing all of these taskssolo.
Even if you're on differenttasks, you're not by yourself,
(06:54):
you're going to keep working onwhat you're working on.
And so it just is another toolto do.
If you're curious about how touse body doubling, let's go
ahead and let's share somepractical tips.
Yes.
Randi (07:05):
First, find somebody that you can body double with.
This could be a friend, a coworker, a family member, or you
can join an online co workinggroup specifically for ADHD or
productivity or studying.
And then you're going to want tomove into what, Jess?
You want to set a very clear
Jess (07:24):
goal.
So before you even start, agreeon what you're going to be
working on.
The clearer the task, the moreeffective the session will be,
and that way when somebody can,like with my daughter what you
doing?
What are you supposed to bedoing?
Well, even
Randi (07:36):
just and I were like, okay, we want to do we want to
record two podcasts And then wewant to work on our website and
then we want to work on oursocial media and we're like,
okay we give ourselves like anoutline of the day that we've
you know Carved out to spendtime on this and then you know,
somebody goes into the weeds.
We're like, what are you doing?
Come back to the task.
(07:57):
So what's another thing we canuse?
using technology so like Zoom,Twitch, Focusmate, these are
great virtual hangouts for bodydoubling.
So even if you can't bephysically in the same room, you
can still see somebody and haveeach other, check in and keep on
tasks and stay motivated.
The other thing I
Jess (08:16):
want to talk about that was keeping our sessions short.
You really, if focus is going tobe the challenge, we have to do
like short bursts, the chunkingidea.
don't do more than 25 minutes offocused work followed by a five
minute break.
Randi (08:31):
Yeah, I have the Pomodoro method.
Timer on my computer so I, I canset it, but I usually do like 15
minutes and then break 5 to 15minutes and, go again and again
if I'm having a hard time,staying on tasks.
Jess (08:46):
And I will say though, if you're using this method but
you're all in a roll and you'relike, no, I can keep going, keep
going.
Just keep going.
And then stop when you're like,Oh, nope, there goes that.
I lost that thought.
And that way you can get up.
I usually get up, walk around,do something else.
And then I come back.
Randi (09:00):
another good thing is to experiment with different types
of styles of this body doublingthat might work for you.
Maybe you like silent, maybe youlike collaborative sessions,
maybe you want to chat, maybeyou want to listen to music,
there's all sorts of differentworking styles.
That can, people can benefitwith doing this.
Jess (09:20):
That's true.
Do you need to sit side by sidewith somebody?
Do you need to have them acrossthe room?
Do you just need them to besomewhere in the room with you?
Do
Randi (09:27):
you need them to check in with you?
Do you need them, to discuss theplan with you or do you need
them, just to Encourage you.
Yeah, exactly.
There's
Jess (09:36):
nothing wrong with saying you've got this.
Let's tackle it.
My daughter is always going, gomom, you got this mom.
You've got this mom.
She is such the greatencourager.
You've got this.
Little cheerleader.
She is.
She is just my littlecheerleader.
Let's go through and answer someof our have you evers.
Randi (09:53):
Okay, so what is body doubling in the context of how
it relates to ADHD?
Jess (09:59):
Body doubling is a strategy or a tool that has
another person present to help aperson with ADHD focus better
and complete tasks.
The body doubling serves as asubtle accountability partner,
even if they aren't activelyassisting with the task.
If they're, they're not doingyour homework, they're not
helping you clean your room,they're doing a task with you,
(10:22):
so that way you're both workingon something.
I guess it's also so you don'tfeel lonely.
Yeah, like you're not missingsomething.
You're not missing
Randi (10:28):
out.
Same thing like whenever I cleanthe house like I never want to
clean but if my partner steps inand helps me with it, it gets
done.
He's not helping you.
He's participating.
If he is also doing his partthen it goes by so much faster
and I don't feel the load on myshoulders like alone or any type
(10:48):
of resentment.
With that.
So how does body doubling helpwomen specifically with ADHD?
Jess (10:54):
For a lot of women who have ADHD, body doubling helps
lower the feelings of overwhelmand procrastination, especially
when we have tasks that we don'twant to do, say, Randy's
cleaning the house.
The presence of having anotherperson increases our dopamine
levels in the brain and it aidsto focus on productivity.
So that's what it is.
(11:15):
It's a dopamine hit, nice, wecan have cheese and body
doubling.
Yeah, there goes our dopamine.
Get some chocolate in there.
We're all good.
All right.
So Randi, can body doubling bedone virtually?
Randi (11:26):
Yes, it can be effective and done virtually through video
calls or even having someone,working side by side on their
own tasks, even on a Zoom call,or streaming live.
And this really helps expandsthe access that we have of
utilizing this coping mechanism,especially if we live in a rural
(11:46):
area, or we, work from home andwe need more accountability.
Jess (11:51):
I've even seen my daughter do her homework with somebody
else who's doing their homework.
via, they're on like, I don'tknow, Zoom or whatever platform
they're on, or they're on acall.
And I'm like, how are you guysboth doing homework?
You're on the phone?
Oh, or you're on FaceTime orwhatever it is.
Yeah, FaceTime, that's the wordI'm thinking.
I'm like, what's that wordcalled?
What's that
Randi (12:09):
thingy?
What
Jess (12:10):
is that thing we use all the time?
Yeah.
But yeah, they're just doing,both doing homework.
And every once in a while,you'll hear somebody chat, and
then they're still doinghomework.
It's just an interesting thing.
Randi (12:18):
Yeah, and there's whole communities like that too, so
Discord too also has a wholevoice chat community that you
can use and different discordsand they have streaming where
you can get on video and streamand talk at the same time and so
there's lots of free openplatforms that you can do this
in.
Everybody in my house hasdiscord but me.
(12:39):
I'm the
Jess (12:39):
only one that like
Randi (12:40):
I just got
Jess (12:41):
it and I'm like, oh the
Randi (12:42):
whole new world I'm
Jess (12:44):
not doing i'm not doing it.
All right, randy.
So what tasks are best suitedfor body doubling?
Randi (12:49):
So it is really beneficial for tasks that might
seem daunting or even boringthings that you don't want to do
at all, household chores,paperwork, your taxes, God,
Jess (12:59):
don't even talk about that.
Even
Randi (13:00):
just, projects or papers you're working on.
It's all about finding a taskthat you're struggling with and
that you could really usesupport with while you're doing
it.
So if it's like something thatyou keep putting at the bottom
of your list, it might besomething that you want, to try
to do with a body double.
Jess (13:15):
That's actually not a bad idea.
I keep trying to figure outbetter ways to get my accounting
done.
I'm trying 30 minutes a day.
I'm trying.
Yeah.
Okay, if I do this, then I cango do this.
We should do a
Randi (13:25):
thing where we just like, even just we only live, like 20
minutes from each other, buteven just virtually okay, we're
gonna do our talk stuff for ourbusinesses today.
Jess (13:33):
We wouldn't do it though.
She and I would talk about it.
Okay.
Okay.
So that's why you need tointerview your body double.
Make sure you're going to beproductive versus sidetracking.
Next thing you know, shopping.
Randi (13:44):
That leads into, do both people need to have ADHD?
Jess (13:49):
I'm going to say no.
Probably a good idea.
The person acting as your bodydouble doesn't need to have
ADHD.
Their role is mainly to bepresent, and it might be better
if they don't have ADHD.
Because you really need youranchor and your focus to drive
and complete tasks.
There is something about that.
And again, it's the what you'redoing, where you're going,
(14:09):
right?
Should you be on TikTok rightnow?
Probably not.
Is that part of your homework?
Oh my gosh, the kids.
What was it?
I don't know.
Late, late Saturday night.
Came running out.
Randi (14:20):
It's on! It's on! It's been! My life is over!
Jess (14:24):
Yeah.
And
Randi (14:25):
then like
Jess (14:25):
12 hours later, it's
Randi (14:27):
back!
Jess (14:27):
Yeah.
It's back.
First thing when I woke up, it'sback on! And I was like, wait,
what's on?
What I don't even
Randi (14:32):
know what.
Yeah.
Fine.
Whatever.
Jess (14:34):
Okay.
How do I find a body double if Ilive
Randi (14:36):
alone?
Like we talked about, there's somany online communities, there's
forums, there's one dedicatedspecifically to this, like
chatting, or study groups, oreven ADHD support groups that
offer resources for you toconnect with each other.
Also, reach out within yourfriend group, or your social
circle, or your professionalnetworks.
(14:56):
Maybe, you're in PR, so youreach out to your PR network.
Working group hey, do you guysjust want to even go to, a
coffee shop and I'll take ourlaptops and, work on this?
Or do you want to, I'll zoom orwhatever it is.
There's lots of ways to findthat even if you don't have an
immediate, physical socialcircle.
So Jess, how is body doublingSuitable for women with ADHD.
Jess (15:21):
Some women find it very, very effective.
It's success really can varybased upon your individual
preference and the nature ofwhatever task you're doing.
It's really about experimentingand seeing if this technique
works for you or works for thetask that you're working on.
And again, you have to make surethat you're working with the
right body double, because noteverybody is going to be
(15:43):
suitable depending on whatyou're working on.
Randi (15:45):
So it's okay too to like test out different groups and
see where you find mm-hmm Yourgroove for that task.
And maybe you have different,friends or accountability
partners that do body doublewith for different things.
Jess (15:55):
Yeah.
I, I have a friend that, we sitand chat and I can clean out my
closet, just put my headset onclean out my closet, fold my
clothes, walk around the house,whatever that is.
But she's not somebody that Icould actually sit and do my
accounting with.
Randi (16:05):
Mm-hmm
Jess (16:06):
And so I know that.
Okay.
Oh, here we go then.
What should I look for in a goodbody double?
Randi (16:12):
Look for somebody who is understanding, patient, aware of
challenges that you might befacing with ADHD.
Someone you feel comfortablewith and that has the right kind
of emotional supportiveenvironment for you If that's
something that you need, to leanon depending on what the task
is.
Jess (16:29):
Yeah, if you need your cheerleader, call my daughter.
She'll be like, yeah,
Randi (16:31):
you can do it! So just how do you introduce this
concept of body doubling tosomeone who maybe doesn't have
ADHD and doesn't struggle withkeeping on tasks?
Jess (16:41):
Basically, explain it as simply having someone present to
help you stay focused andcomplete your task.
An accountability partner.
I think that's
Randi (16:48):
something that's more well known, for somebody that's
not in the mental healthcommunity, and so
Jess (16:53):
Yeah, explain how it is Beneficial to you and how you
would like to help them as wellif it helps them Sometimes like
I have a friend that we do ourerrands together because we both
were pretty busy and she's likeI got Aaron Do you want to go?
I was like sure we chat and Iguess when she'll time to talk
and then you get shit doneExactly.
And so that's the same thingIt's like body doubling with
(17:15):
Aaron to get to hang out with afriend when sometimes she does
hers.
Sometimes I do mine Mm hmmdepends on what we're doing.
So that works.
Okay, so It's such a simpleconcept, but it is such a
powerful tool especially us withADHD, if you have ADHD.
Really look at body doubling.
Randi (17:34):
Yeah.
Work on creating a supportiveenvironment for yourself,
whether it's in person orvirtual.
Give yourself the opportunity tothrive.
thank you for joining us ontoday's episode of the Women's
Mental Health Podcast.
If you found this helpful,please share it with a friend,
leave us a review, or even trybody doubling with someone you
know.
Jess (17:54):
Remember, it's okay to ask for help and to find creative
ways to support your mentalhealth.
You deserve it, especially ifyou have ADHD.
Really, truly, I know I'm allover the place today.
I swear I took my meds.
But until next time, take careand be kind to yourself.
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