November 20, 2024 • 34 mins
Ever wondered what lies at the heart of true gratitude and how it can transform your path to mental wellness? In this riveting episode of Women's Mental Health Podcast, we unravel the layers of "What Gratitude Really Is," Join empathic warriors, Randi Owsley, LMSW, and Jessica Bullwinkle, LMFT, as they shed light on gratitude practices for women, the science of gratitude for her, and how incorporating daily gratitude can be the cornerstone of self-care and mental resilience. Whether you're juggling motherhood, career, or the quest for personal balance, this episode promises to be a beacon of hope, empowering you to cultivate a mindset steeped in genuine thankfulness and robust emotional health.
Gratitude is not just a simple thank-you; it's a transformative force capable of reshaping our experiences and deepening our connections with ourselves and the world around us. If you're eager to delve into what gratitude really is, and how this powerful sentiment can play a pivotal role in your emotional toolkit, you've come to the right place. Here at the Women's Mental Health Podcast, we explore a range of mental health gratitude techniques, weaving stories of women finding joy in gratitude and showcasing how these practices can be a form of profound self-love. Whether you are navigating the complexities of motherhood and seeking daily gratitude or you are on a quest for female empowerment through gratitude, we provide accessible resources and actionable insights. Each episode is designed to help you integrate genuine gratitude into your life, transforming challenges into opportunities for growth and healing.
As we move forward with our shared journey on the Women's Mental Health Podcast, we'll be diving deeper into the heart of what makes us thrive, not just survive. We’re unearthing the beauty of genuine gratitude in womanhood, learning how this simple yet profound principle can be the catalyst for astonishing transformation. The practice of gratitude holds keys to not only female empowerment but also to rediscovering joy and a rich sense of self-love.
#ProtectYourPeaceNow #EmotionalWellnessMatters #FindYourInnerCalm #PrioritizeYourMentalHealth #HealthyBoundariesHappierLife #StressManagementStrategies #AnxietyReliefTips #ResilienceBuildingJourney #MindfulnessMatters #SelfCareEmpowerment #gratitude
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The Women’s Mental Health Podcast, hosted by licensed therapists Randi Owsley MSW and Jessica Bullwinkle LMFT, PMH-C, offers educational and entertaining mental health content. This is not therapy or a substitute for professional care. No therapeutic relationship is formed by listening or engaging. Some links may be affiliate links, which may earn us a small commission at no extra cost to you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Randi (00:00):
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
(00:02):
I'm randy.
I'm And I'm Jess.
And we are two licensedpsychotherapists, and this is a
safe space where we talk aboutmental health, well being, and
strategies for coping withlife's challenges.
And how all of this is normal,and you are not alone.
In this episode, we're gonnatalk about what it means to be
grateful as we move forward intoNovember where we're constantly
told we should be grateful andfocus on being grateful.
Jess (00:27):
We're gonna explore why gratitude can be hard, why it
feels forced, and what you cando to be grateful and not
compare yourself to others.
So find us in more information.
on womensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
Have you ever had
Randi (00:41):
these thoughts
Jess (00:43):
You are so lucky.
Randi (00:45):
Wow, things seem to work out so easy
Jess (00:48):
for you.
Well, somebody else has itworse.
At least that's not.
At least you have your job.
Randi (00:54):
This is toxic, positivity and high alert.
Jess (00:58):
We did that episode a couple of months ago.
Randi (01:00):
Mm-hmm.
right?
Toxic.
Yeah.
We have a episode that you canlisten to called Toxic
Positivity.
Jess (01:04):
Why are we focusing on gratitude then for this episode?
Randi (01:07):
Well because in November, it's all about the holidays and
families and it's a nationalgratitude month and it's pushes
us and encourages us to embracethe power of gratitude.
But with that can also come witha lot of negativity with the
Jess (01:22):
positivity.
So when we focus on gratitude, alot of us will say, they connect
to being thankful.
Mm-hmm.
Because Thanksgiving, and weshould all be thankful and go
around the table and say whatwe're thankful for, but the
difference is that thankfulnessis a reaction.
Whereas gratitude is a chosenstate of being.
Randi (01:41):
So again, thankfulness is the reaction.
Mm-hmm.
gratitude is the state.
So that's the difference betweenthem.
You
Jess (01:48):
hand me a present mm-hmm.
and I'm like, Oh wow.
Thank you.
It's a reaction.
Yeah.
But whereas gratitude is beingable to say that action, I am
appreciative of this.
Yeah.
I'm grateful for this.
it is an action
Randi (01:59):
of it.
Or showing how you are thankfulfor that gift.
Cuz you're not always gonna begrateful for everything you get.
No.
It might be something that youhate
Jess (02:10):
so you wouldn't be there.
You're like, Oh wow.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yo, I guess we should say, whatare the benefits of the
gratitude practice?
Why do we wanna be grateful forthings?
Randi (02:22):
So there are a lot of studies that show that being
grateful and focusing ongratitude can help improve your
sleep quality improve how youregulate your emotions, increase
feelings of happiness.
Overall mood.
Ooh.
Is it
Jess (02:40):
that serotonin stuff?
Yeah.
It's increasing your serotonin.
Yeah.
Randi (02:45):
Hashtag.
I don't have enough hairserotonin for this shit.
Just like our sweatshirts wehave, It helps you feel like
hopeful for the future.
Mm.
Okay.
And it can reduce your burnoutrate, things with ptsd,
posttraumatic stress disorder,and overall stress.
Jess (03:03):
So really what I'm hearing, it's a form of
appreciation, Whether beingthankful for a specific
situation or a wider lifeperspective.
It's
Randi (03:12):
the belief that you can connect to your feelings of
appreciation and gratitude andthat with that, you may feel
happier and more satisfied thatyou're like connecting those
things together.
Jess (03:26):
What I'm also hearing is that we're gonna be comparing,
our own situations to others,whereas we know with social
media that that's reallyharmful.
Randi (03:34):
Yes.
So that's where this is like agray area and a slippery slope
that you can slide down intowith feeling grateful.
But then you're like, Wait, soand so is doing this or got
this.
I am thankful for this, butmaybe I would be like, Thankful
or have more gratitude if, I hadthis and like we tend to think
(03:57):
that way.
I would say especially as women,we can tend to spin our thoughts
or
Jess (04:01):
compare ourselves to people that we think are doing
better than us.
When really, as we know associal media, that's all they
show.
So we don't know their
Randi (04:09):
situation exactly.
It could be like they're in adark, deep depressive hole, but
they're posting a really shinypicture.
And then we're comparing that.
But like we don't really knowthe reality.
Jess (04:19):
It's very harmful because it doesn't justify where we are.
Mm-hmm.
And that's the other thing aboutbeing false gratefulness or
gratitude, is that sometimesit's a sucky day and that's all
it is.
Randi (04:31):
Right?
And it's feel like there'snothing to be grateful for, you
might wanna burn your gratitudejournal that day.
And that's okay to feel thatway.
And that's what we reference tooin our toxic positivity episode,
is that you don't have to behappy and shiny and grateful 24
7.
Just because you're off one dayis not the end of the world.
(04:51):
Absolutely.
Jess (04:52):
Let's go back to, There's a theory called social
comparison theory, right?
Mm-hmm.
started back in the fifties bythis guy, Leon Festinger, and
this theory says that peopleconstantly evaluate themselves
and others in areas like whetherthey're attractive, if they have
enough money, if they're smartor successful.
Randi (05:12):
They're showing that at least 10% of our thoughts
throughout the day are in someway, shape, or form.
Comparing something whether,like you said, that's like
beauty, finances, our education,You know what we deem
successful.
We are cycling those thoughtsthroughout our day, at least
10%.
Jess (05:32):
That's a lot of time to be comparing ourselves.
I would say that when you
Randi (05:36):
think about that,
Jess (05:36):
yeah, 10% of the day that we are awake, if we're comparing
ourselves, I could be doingother stuff.
Yeah.
So why are you doing that?
it's toxic.
Well, it's, it's probablylearned.
We figure out how we stack upagainst others, and that is how
we figure out whether or notwe've made it right?
Mm-hmm.
or at least that's what we'vebeen
Randi (05:57):
told.
And so research is showingpeople who regularly compare
themselves to.
They can find some motivation toimprove, but that can also pair
with this, almost like obsessionto improve things and then you
can start feeling likedissatisfaction with where
(06:17):
you're at with that guiltremorse or start like with the
obsessiveness.
And worry about it.
An eating disorder could pop up.
Yeah.
Or like you start lying toyourself or other people like,
Yeah, things are great.
This is going and you're like,world is falling apart.
Cuz you wanna feel like you'reat a certain level, you're doing
more harm than good at times.
(06:39):
It's hard
Jess (06:39):
to say that you're having a bad day.
It's hard to say that.
Feel.
See here I go, You don't feel asgood as the person next to you.
Mm-hmm.
How do you know how they feel?
Cuz you're comparing what theylook like.
You're comparing what you looklike.
So basically this dude back inthe fifties already knew social
media was gonna
Randi (06:55):
screw us up and Well, it's always been that way.
Any type of media, thinking backthe early twenties and stuff
when they started using likepropaganda and things like that.
Mm-hmm.
like you're a housewife oryou're this, or like you should
buy.
All comes back to advertising.
Jess (07:09):
Advertising.
The evil.
Randi (07:11):
The evil.
Let's call it what it is.
It is all propaganda.
Started with the war.
They moved it into like homeshopping goods and we're here
today
Jess (07:19):
Next thing we have to have that ice maker.
Yes.
But we
Randi (07:23):
do Nugget, but we do Ice Maker is life changing.
Just side note it'll be here ina couple days.
Jess (07:28):
Thank you.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Done.
Okay.
So Theodore Roosevelt calledComparison, the thief of Joy
Randi (07:35):
and I.
all the time because it is verytrue.
And when we were discussing thisepisode and researching it
thought back to even in one ofthe 10 commandments.
It's been of course, twisted andthat differently, but it's no
shocker.
But it's thou shall not covetthey neighbor, things like that.
You're not supposed to watchthat.
(07:56):
Was
Jess (07:56):
that neighbor's?
Randi (07:57):
Yeah, but Oh, okay.
Okay.
Wife nugget, ice maker, whateverit is.
Like you're coveting.
I'm just
Jess (08:02):
good ice maker now.
Come on.
There's the reason it's
Randi (08:05):
number one, it has changed my life.
It brings me a lot of gratitude,
Jess (08:11):
Oh.
Randi (08:12):
But yeah, so I'm just saying, throughout history they
have said like, when youcompare.
yourself.
You're not gonna feel a hundredpercent.
That is
Jess (08:20):
one of the things I see in my practice all the time, is
that women are always comparingthemselves to other women.
Mm-hmm.
we talk about we don't reallydress for men.
Let's be real.
We dress up for other women.
Randi (08:32):
Yeah.
We want our friends to be like,You look cute.
Like you dress up to you today.
I was like, Damn, you look goodgirl.
Jess (08:39):
Thank you by the way, you.
But we don't, we don't dress upfor other, other, like the
opposite sex or, whoever we'reattracted to.
It's not necessarily theopposite sex.
Yeah.
But we dress up for other women.
We dress up for our friends.
We dress up not just for us.
Sometimes it's because we don'twanna be
Randi (08:57):
judged.
Yeah, that's true.
And, and my other company whereI do social media and stuff, I
am very transparent aboutshowing like when I'm wearing
like a cute outfit and stuff,that I'm also a hot mess the
other 50% of the time, andwearing, pajamas to work from
home.
Because in social media it canfeel like constantly comparing
(09:18):
you have your shit togetherbecause you're wearing like a
cute outfit and I'm.
I try to be like very real andupfront with my followers that
that's not true.
and I
Jess (09:28):
was just showing this morning or yesterday that for me
in my office, you see this nicepicture.
It's nice and clean.
Mm-hmm.
everything is organized behindme.
Yeah.
And then if you pan to the rightwhere the screen doesn't show,
all of my prime boxes have comein all of my, She has a lot of
prime
Randi (09:46):
boxes.
Jess (09:47):
All my art supplies are there.
Yeah.
And it's just a hot mess rightnow.
Yeah.
And so I was showing somebodyyesterday, I was like, All
right, hang on, hang on.
And I panned, I, I moved to mymonitor over.
Yeah.
And she.
Oh, that makes me feel better.
And I was like, Oh good.
Randi (10:03):
Yeah, and I think that that's, that is so important
when learning to practice, likegratitude and things like that,
that we.
In that moment do not compare toother people.
And more importantly understandthey are probably struggling
too.
Mm-hmm.
they probably have dishes in thesink too.
They probably have washed thatload of laundry five times too.
(10:25):
What?
No.
Or it's already smelly andmildewey in there, so just
speaking from experience.
But yeah, and having more.
Kindness to ourselves and otherpeople too.
Like not thinking like she hasher shit together because she
has those awesome boots on.
No actually she only slept twohours last night, aka me, but
(10:46):
she still has,
Jess (10:47):
Really good boots on.
Sometimes it's so difficult toshow or be or say gratitude and
there's reasons why.
And the main one I'm gonna gothrough is, We often overlook
these red flags inrelationships, right?
Mm-hmm.
like we're, we're being sograteful for
Randi (11:03):
whatever that we're, that we're in a relationship or we're
not alone.
Oh, oh, yes.
Oh, I'm not alone.
It could be worse.
Like we talked about that too.
It's like the emotional abuse.
Like it could be worse.
Well, it could be a lot better.
These things like feelinggrateful or like trying to like
downplay why you should begrateful.
Make a true practice ofgratitude.
Jess (11:24):
And it also goes through and like forces us to appreciate
things that don't serve usanymore, right?
Mm-hmm.
I was also telling this storyabout I've been carrying around
these genes going, I'm gonnalose weight.
I'm gonna get back in thesegenes.
I'm gonna lose weight.
I'm gonna get back on thesegenes.
Meanwhile, I've had a kid.
Married, I've now lost 85pounds, right?
These jeans, one, they didn'tfit my body anymore because my
(11:46):
body had changed from said kidand two, all of a sudden I've
lost weight to the point wherethey, they're too big So I've
wasted how many moving trucksmoving these, the.
Randi (11:59):
The space, The emotional baggage.
Literally.
Jess (12:02):
Yeah.
Of these genes that no longer
Randi (12:06):
served me.
They didn't serve a purpose forthe last 15 years either.
And they're not gonna serve apurpose in the future.
And but thinking about that too,like how much emotional shit do
we carry like
Jess (12:17):
that with us in that pair of jeans?
And they're still in my closet.
I'm like, Cause you physicallyhave it too.
Yes.
And I'm going, it was the oneday and I.
I still have'em in the closet.
I've gotta get rid of'em.
So
Randi (12:29):
listen, this, this attaches to that.
Instead of finding the perfectpair of jeans during that moment
that fit your body and made youfeel like a badass, that you
felt hot, sexy, confident, orwhatever in Yeah.
You were thinking about one dayI'm gonna fit into those jeans.
Do you see how that counteractedthat?
Mm-hmm.
So that's why gratitude can beso freaking hard.
Jess (12:52):
Cause I was like, I can't wait and I'll be so grateful
when I can fit into these jeansagain.
Well, guess what?
Now they're too big and they'renot even comfy.
I don't even know
Randi (12:59):
what, And they're probably like, not even like the
style like you would wearanymore, right?
And you're like, Why do I still
Jess (13:04):
have Well, the reality is the kids are all wearing the
style again.
Oh,
Randi (13:08):
well.
So that's true.
Stuff does cycle back.
But don't hold onto that.
Let it
Jess (13:11):
go right?
Oh, they're gonna go.
Another thing is that can glossover things that need our
attention.
Mm-hmm.
right?
Cause we're being so gratefulfor, trying to, to be so
grateful.
Mm.
That we're not paying attentionto the things that are like,
Hey, hey, I need you.
Hey, I, I
Randi (13:30):
need this.
Yeah.
We're not actually.
Focusing on the moment thatdeserve true gratification and
gratefulness.
We're not pausing to respectthose things that are actually
like bringing us joy and
Jess (13:43):
peace.
Mm.
Being in the moment.
Mm-hmm.
I was just talking about thatthis morning on Instagram.
That's so funny.
Yeah.
So it goes back to that toxicpositivity or what we call false
gratitude, right?
Randi (13:54):
Yeah.
Creates, insecurity because it'snot
Jess (13:57):
authentic.
Nope.
Not authentic.
Oh, I have, Oh, such Mm
Randi (14:01):
mm And we're very authentic here.
You guys know
Jess (14:04):
right?
And it's also sometimes when wehave false gratitude, it, it's
also because we're being forced.
It's like the expectation.
Mm.
When someone gives you a
Randi (14:14):
gift.
Yeah.
Like we were talking, likethey're expecting a response
from you and you're trying togive the expected response.
I don't like to open gifts infront of people because I don't
wanna feel like I'm having tomeet their expectations.
Mm-hmm.
I wanna process it and then belike, And for me too, I need
time to think and process thingsand then I want to be like, Oh
(14:35):
my God, like this was reallylike so thoughtful.
Thank you for this.
This is the reason I enjoy this.
Like I appreciate this so much.
Instead of just this fake Oh myGod, thank you so
Jess (14:45):
much.
I have a friend every time shedoes that, Oh my God, thank you
so much.
And she's super excited.
She doesn't like it.
And
Randi (14:52):
then that's me, right?
Jess (14:55):
And then when she goes through and she's, really quiet
and you think she doesn't likeit, that's when she's Oh yes, it
really touched her.
So I'm always like you didn'tlike it?
Oh, you liked it?
Oh no.
Randi (15:05):
It's totally opposite of whatever she is.
Yeah, I'm that way too cuz I'llbe like almost shocked, when I
get.
I gift gifts are my lovelanguage and I like giving gifts
too.
Jess (15:18):
And you're a good gift giver.
Yeah.
You're
Randi (15:20):
really good at it.
I'm like, I'm like reallythoughtful when I actually spend
time doing it.
And I'm
Jess (15:25):
always terrified.
I'm always like, Please don'tlet me pull Randy on this thing.
Please don't let me pull Randygift because I, she is so good
at it and it would just cause meso much anxiety, cuz I'm not as
good.
Randi (15:35):
And I think that's why people don't like giving me
gifts because, because I'm likegood at it.
And like I will spend literallylike hours, like trying to find
like the perfect gift forsomebody.
But then sometimes I'm like, itstresses me out and I'm just
like, Forget it.
This is what you're getting.
But yeah.
So it can take away from thatwhen it's not your gratitude.
(15:56):
Genuine and harmful.
And you can see how that canlike kind of like hurt, like
friendships and relationshipstoo if you're Well
Jess (16:02):
cause it feels demanded.
It feels like someone is sayingyou must be
Randi (16:06):
grateful.
Yeah.
So like even I don't let my kidsat birthday parties and stuff
like open up presents cuz Idon't want them to feel like
forced to give like a reaction.
We can do this later.
You can process it and then youcan thank everybody at a
different time.
That
Jess (16:18):
reminds me, it's like when this is old school.
I know, but when people expect athank you card for a gift they
gave you.
Randi (16:25):
Sorry, I don't do that.
Oh, I don't either.
I quit it.
You know what I found the otherday?
30 gift thank you notes for ababy shower.
Gifts I had received seven yearsago that I never mailed out, and
I don't feel guilty about it.
Jess (16:40):
No.
And I don't.
I don't do thank you notes.
Cuz if you are expecting a thankyou note for a gift you give,
then it's not truly a gift.
Randi (16:49):
It it comes with an expectation.
Yeah.
And this is all these cyclingthings that we start seeing
these connections.
If you guys have listened to ourpast episodes and stuff about
this and how all this stuff canbe intertwined with like the gas
lighting and like expectationsof women and like
Jess (17:05):
anxiety, it's so anxiety provoking, right?
Because then.
I have to tell them what I'mgonna do with this gift besides
give it away.
And then they're gonna get madbecause they wanna know where
this gift is in six months.
I know,
Randi (17:17):
like I'll read like weird things, like people like comment
like, Oh my God, like I have totake this statue out that my
mother-in-law gave me like 10years ago and I hate it.
And it, it's so gross.
But it like, if I don't have itout, like she's gonna be like,
so in, I'm like, That's abouther, not you.
Me.
It's not a gift.
It's not a gift.
Like I see so many things inlike mom's groups and stuff of
(17:39):
like women talking about thatstuff or like how their, in-laws
or even their own, parentsexpect their kids to play with
certain toys or do certainthings or wear certain clothes.
They bought them.
No, you do not own.
Shit.
You do not owe anybody shit.
Ooh,
Jess (17:57):
did we strike a nerve there?
Yeah.
Wow.
Randi (18:00):
Check out.
Don't, with my family, I'm not,I'm not a people pleaser in that
way.
I would never, But I see so manywomen do it.
Like it makes me cringe.
Cause I feel like.
You're like shrinking yourselfand almost like bowing down in
front of another person.
Jess (18:14):
And then honestly, it's like when you fake an orgasm,
then they're gonna keep doingthe same thing.
Why?
And then you're never gonna havea real orgasm because they think
they're doing it right.
No,
Randi (18:22):
teach them.
Teach them what you want andwhat you need.
Communicate.
That's why I send out a giftlist of what my kids actually,
Oh, I gonna talk about orgasms.
Okay.
Go ahead.
She's I found out again, she'sdocumentary about where to No, I
am very much No, don't do that.
Do this.
Feel like a lot of women arelike, fear, fearful.
Why?
You're gonna have better sex,you're gonna have a better
(18:43):
relationship.
Tell him don't touch that area.
Touch this area, Get up inthere, curve that, move this
way.
No, I don't like that.
Yes, I like that.
Do that.
Again, I am very vocal at that.
I don't wanna, I'm not wastingmy time.
You're killing me over here.
You are killing me over.
But anyway, same thing.
You can apply orgasm or gift.
Make that Amazon wish list.
Send it out for your kids.
(19:04):
You.
I made my husband a better giftgiver by being very specific.
This is what I want.
You can choose from it.
Okay, now I'm happy.
He's happy.
And now my friends are alwayslike, how he gives you the best
present.
You're like, I picked those out.
I, he now knows I've done itenough, like over the years, he
(19:25):
can now pick out a gift on hisown without referencing my
Amazon wishlist.
It takes a lot of training andit's taken a lot of
communication and it's taken alot of discussions about
communication, discussions,training about this does not
like gift giving is important tome.
It's not to him.
He doesn't care.
(19:45):
Yeah.
I love buying him gifts, but hedoesn't really care, but I do,
so I'm like, buy me a good gift.
Or we're not friends anymore.
Jess (19:52):
Okay.
Note taken.
I need your list.
No, No.
Okay.
So let's go back to beinggrateful.
Yeah.
How then do we actually practicegratitude and being grateful?
Be
Randi (20:03):
real.
Okay?
Like authentic communicate.
Don't fake it till you make it.
Don't fake that orgasm.
Don't fake your happiness aboutwhatever it is.
Whether that person's giving youtime.
Yes, space a gift.
It doesn't apply, to physicalthings only.
Thank you for giving me yourtime.
Thank you.
Like Jess and I were justtalking earlier, like about, we
(20:24):
were both trying to be like sohypersensitive to each other's,
like times, time, and schedules,
Jess (20:29):
and I was like, I didn't wanna impose on your time.
I know you're
Randi (20:31):
really busy.
Yeah.
And I was like, I know, I, Iknow Fridays are really hectic
for you right now.
And we were like both Oh my God.
Like we were trying to be, butthen we were like, Oh, that's so
thankful, but we need to be alittle bit harder with each
other.
No, we were being a little too.
Focusing
Jess (20:44):
on like some, some of the small themes.
Mm-hmm.
Go small versus the big ones.
We don't have to be authentic.
This was a great day.
Okay.
Maybe the entire day didn'tsuck.
Maybe it wasn't great.
Yeah.
But it's also being gratefulthat, you know what, I'm really
grateful that we did get to dotime to do this today.
Cause I enjoy being able to dothis.
Yes, exactly.
So I'm grateful.
(21:04):
Hold on.
My dog is snoring.
If you guys can't hear that,Hold on.
I gotta wake him up here.
Hold on.
All right.
That is not Randy The otherthing, Yes, I'm sorry.
The other thing would be tovalidate.
Mm-hmm.
validation is such a huge thing.
It's like validating youremotions.
Yeah.
Practicing validation.
My huge thing is that it's notblack and white.
(21:25):
It can be an, and there's no.
Or, mm-hmm.
Randi (21:29):
Yeah.
You can feel gratitude andanger.
You can feel gratitude anddisappointment.
You can feel, like you said, youcould be maybe grateful for one
side of the coin, butdisappointed in the other, and
that's okay.
But like then you can be like,Okay, I know I'm disappointed
with this, but I am grateful forthis and that, like you said,
(21:49):
comes.
Authenticity and validation.
Becoming comfortable withyourself and your emotions is
really where this needs to stemfrom.
Jess (21:59):
Well, and understanding that your feelings are real.
Mm-hmm.
and to validate
Randi (22:03):
yourself.
Yeah.
And you're worthy.
Like we say, every episode youare worthy, You.
Are worthy of being upset.
You're worthy of being grateful.
You're
Jess (22:13):
worthy of those big feelings, and you don't have to
hide your big feelings.
I see that all the time, that
Randi (22:19):
women, you're okay with them.
Talk about them.
Jess (22:21):
Validate them and stay away from comparisons.
Mm-hmm.
it just isn't a good thing tocompare yourself to others
because we don't know theirwhole
Randi (22:30):
story.
Mm-hmm.
and like I do, I do this withself still weekly.
It's something I use withclients with C B T therapy,
which is cognitive behavioraltheory, and I literally imagine
a big red stop sign in my headlike, Stop thinking this way.
And I will have to like pauseand be like, Why am I thinking
(22:51):
this way?
Is this really the reality?
What am I perceiving?
And what is really happening.
Have to have a little mini likepowwow with myself in my
Jess (23:01):
head.
Like I don't think she does itin her head though.
I think she really has a powwowin the car.
I think she's just had thisconversation down the road and
you think she's on the phone andshe is not.
But I'm just, Well,
Randi (23:11):
Yeah.
I'm just yelling down the roadlike at myself.
But yeah, and that's a way foryou to care for yourself.
And then sometimes if you can't,get help that you need, talk to
a friend, talk to a therapist,take the responsibility of
caring for yourself.
And taking the comparison awayand talk about it and work
(23:32):
through it.
I don't know if I've
Jess (23:33):
talked to you guys about this before.
I did a, an experiment a coupleof years ago, probably more like
seven years ago.
I had a new DSLR camera.
Mm-hmm.
And this was when people weredoing their big photo of a day
challenge and things you'regrateful for.
Well, I changed it to, I don'tknow, whatever I thought was
cool or made me happy or what.
At first it was really hard to aremember to do a
Randi (23:56):
photo of the day.
Oh, yeah.
Now they have those apps andstuff that you can do.
Yeah.
Jess (24:00):
But it was hard to remember to do a photo of the
day.
It was hard to, go, Oh, what'scool and what's different?
Mm-hmm.
And then I remember about twoand a half months in, I found
myself sitting in this traffic.
It was this awful area.
It was rain.
I looked over and there was adouble rainbow, and I was like,
Oh, that would make a reallycool photo.
And from that moment on, myphotos got better and better and
(24:23):
better.
And it was easier for me to seethem.
And it wasn't false.
It wasn't anything, but it wasjust, it was like I changed my
I, my, my vision.
Yeah.
You flipped your script.
I flipped my script.
Yeah.
And I can see a different Oh,that'd make a cool photo.
And I did it for an entire, AndI did it again for another tire,
(24:44):
an entire year.
Uhhuh, And it just, I could seedifferently cause I was looking
for something that was cool.
And so there are things to do,even if you, you're not feeling
gratitude.
There are things that you can doto, to help you like different,
to work towards
Randi (25:00):
that, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like you said, Thinking of itfrom a different perspective.
Mm-hmm.
or thinking of it from another'sperspective and how might they
feel?
And I think that goes hand inhand with becoming more
empathetic, which I feel we lacka lot of compassion in.
Yeah.
In this society.
And just like you said, you werefinding a connection and joy
(25:23):
like in that moment.
Where like everything was likechaos around you and you thought
like that double rainbow likebrought you joy and you could
focus on that.
And so that small pinpointmm-hmm.
you could just thumbtack thatlike that is what is bringing me
joy right now.
I'm grateful for that onesecond.
And that hour, that was liketotal chaos.
Jess (25:45):
It was the practice, daily practice of that.
Mm-hmm.
of looking for it cuz it's allaround us and sometimes we have
to look.
Dig deep
Randi (25:54):
sometimes
Jess (25:55):
Oh, there is the beginning photos.
I was digging deep.
It was, it was a deep dig.
But you know what I also havepeople do is they'll like a
gratitude journal.
I'll have'em write three thingsbecause I think 10 things is
Randi (26:07):
hard.
Yeah.
And we have a free one on thewebsite too.
You guys can download
Jess (26:11):
three things that you're grateful for that day.
And it could just be anythingsimple.
Nothing false, but I'm reallyglad I had coffee this morning.
Like I was so excited for my cupof coffee this
Randi (26:22):
morning.
Yeah, and if you can journal it,text it to yourself.
I don't know, like voice memoyourself.
Just say it out loud.
Yeah, say it out loud.
Or even say it, in your headlike, Man, that was really cool
right now.
Yeah.
That's it.
It doesn't have to be major.
Like I love buying journals.
I love writing, but like I'm notvery good at keeping up with
(26:43):
them, so No,
Jess (26:44):
no, no.
It's, it's not like a deardiary.
Yeah.
The other one is acts ofkindness.
Yeah.
So we were at the Starbuckscouple weeks ago, my daughter
and I, and there was a ladybehind us mm-hmm.
and I was like, Let's paper hercoffee.
She's like, Why?
And I.
Why not?
And she was like, Okay.
And so we paid for this lady'scoffee or whoever it was.
(27:04):
I don't, I'm assuming as a ladypaid for her coffee, her cha
latte or whatever.
And we went off and my daughterwas like, That was really cool.
Mm-hmm I'm like, Yeah, justsomething for fun.
And then the lady was driving byus cuz we were at a light and
she goes, Oh.
Mom Here she comes, here shecomes.
What do I do?
What do I do?
I'm like, Just act normal.
Yeah.
I don't know if she knows it wasus or not.
It's not a big deal.
We we're not looking
Randi (27:24):
for it.
We're not doing it forvalidation.
Jess (27:26):
Yeah.
And she says she looked at her,she goes, She had such a smile
on her face, Mom, and she wasn'tlooking at us, but she said she
was just driving with a smile onher face.
I said, we could have absolutelymade her.
Randi (27:39):
I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a minute.
Uhoh.
I have heard on the oppositeside from Starbucks employees
and some other people because Ihave a lot of low income clients
that have said that reallystresses them out because then
they feel forced to pay for theperson behind them.
Oh, and you know what?
They don't know if they couldafford it.
(27:59):
And I wanna say, With that.
The Starbucks people, I think,have learned to say You, you do
not need to pass this on tosomebody or don't worry about it
and stuff like that.
So I love random acts ofkindness.
I love doing that kind of stuff.
But I,
Jess (28:12):
the reason I did that though was because there was
nobody behind her.
Oh, perfect.
Randi (28:17):
So there was not a long, not like a long line that like
needs to be like, cuz somebody'swhat if, they order.
Yeah, like$50 worth of Starbucksand I can't afford that.
And I just wanted like my dollarcake pop
Jess (28:28):
No.
The reason they did it that daywas because there was, You were
more thoughtful.
Yeah, yeah.
There was nobody behind us.
I wasn't trying to create thisthoughtful train.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
It was really just for that oneperson in that one moment.
Yeah.
And my daughter goes, she saidthat, but what if there's a
person behind him?
And I was like, Nobody's behindhim.
This is just about them.
Randi (28:47):
Well, cuz you've raised a thoughtful kid, but Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause you're a thoughtfulperson, but, Oh, well thank you.
Jess (28:51):
You're, But yeah, we, we do, we thought of that, that,
because I was like, I don'twanna have to, I'm not trying to
create something here.
Mm-hmm.
because I feel bad when I breakit.
Yeah.
Cuz now I feel guilty that.
Randi (29:01):
And that's what can induce a lot of things.
So there's, Yeah.
But I love doing small, randomthings like that, and I do a lot
of like fundraising and stufflike that.
Mm-hmm.
and I, I do not like validationfor it, and it's really hard for
me.
We had done a big fundraiser.
She gets a little weird, just soyou know.
Yeah.
We did a bug.
Big fundraiser a couple yearsago and they wanted me to come
(29:23):
and present me with a giantcheck for their social media.
And I did not wanna do it, butit was to help this nonprofit,
right?
Mm-hmm.
And they wanted, to share likewhat I had done for them.
And I was like, But I don't dothis for recognition.
I am the type of person that Idon't need to be recognized for
(29:43):
my service acts.
Doing service acts is my,another love language of mine to
give mm-hmm.
to my community and stuff likethat.
A lot of people do service actsfor recognition and for me like
that doesn't validate like thegratitude I get from it.
I would rather be like behindthe scenes, but I realize okay,
it's helping them and like theirpresence and they want other
(30:06):
donors to know we had done this.
And so I was like, Okay, Istepped.
Out from behind the shadows todo this big check picture.
But yeah, it made me reallyuncomfortable, but I was like,
okay, that was a way for them toexpress gratitude to me and like
I was had to learn how to accept
Jess (30:24):
it too.
It's also okay Randy to say I'mnot comfortable with that.
Yeah.
Please accept it on my behalf.
Yes.
That's not what I'm looking for.
Yeah.
I love the holidays, especiallylike you've been booed,
especially like for October,like that, we did a couple in
October.
But what I do is I take out thepart where you're supposed to
redo it.
Because I hate that, that it'slike a chain mail.
(30:45):
Don't give me some, Rememberthose God chain mails?
Chain letters.
Chain letters.
That's
Randi (30:49):
it.
My mom used to be like soparanoid about those.
I'm gonna get bad luck if Idon't send it to seven.
My friends.
This weird.
And then it turned into like anemail chain thing, spam, and it
was like, what?
Jess (30:59):
Spam.
But we did that for little boysacross the street
Randi (31:02):
too.
Well, you're.
Stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I like that you put you donot need to, cuz it's like maybe
they don't have, the money tomake like that basket or do you
know, whatever.
Jess (31:12):
Well, and I don't wanna create we'll do, we did a little
basket and gave it to them, butI didn't do the, you're supposed
to forward it because I don'twanna create that for that mom.
Mm-hmm.
because she more
Randi (31:22):
stress, more work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's trying, you're trying toalleviate something and bring
some joy, to their day andstuff.
And I just
wanted.
Jess (31:29):
See them open it through my window.
Keeping Tom, It was really funthough, right?
And my daughter ran over, rangthe doorbell, she ran back.
We did it all
Randi (31:36):
secretive.
Yeah.
I love doing that stuff too.
And I don't like ever do it withthe intention of expecting
getting anything in return.
And I think when you createthose kind of realities and
boundaries with yourself aboutyour expectations for gratitude,
it makes it more powerful, andthat.
The type of things that helpwith increasing your serotonin
(31:58):
and reducing your stress likeand improving relationships and
friendships just as over here,like knocking over all of our
audio equipment.
I
Jess (32:07):
so excited that like I knocked everything over.
Oh my gosh.
I'm gonna have to hold it
Randi (32:11):
now.
Oh, we're hot messes all thetime.
The time.
And learn to feel gratitudewithout the comparison and the
guilt and things like that, liketrue gratitude that can improve
your overall
Jess (32:21):
health.
I also wanna say, you don't haveto have a gratitude practice.
If you're rolling into Novemberand you're like, I don't wanna
do this, don't
Randi (32:30):
do it.
It can be hard.
Like a lot of people have familyissues.
You can say, Fuck gratitude,right?
It's, It's not your thing.
It doesn't have to be yourthing.
Yeah.
You don't need to take onanother thing.
We don't
Jess (32:38):
need another thing.
It's okay if it's going to harmyour mental health.
We will both be the first peoplethat say Don't
Randi (32:45):
do it.
Yeah.
Drop it, Put up that boundary.
I'm not doing gratitude journal.
This is dumb.
This is one more thing on myplate.
Okay.
Jess (32:51):
And for those who have the gratitude practice of they gave
it up to God, they give it up tothe universe, then keep it.
If that works for you, then keepit.
Randi (33:00):
Yeah.
Find.
You can fit it in, work it foryou, or dump it and cut it.
If it doesn't work for you,there's no guilt.
No shame here.
Jess (33:09):
Nope.
Just if it doesn't serve apurpose, it's okay to let it go.
Yep,
Randi (33:13):
Exactly.
Thank you guys for listening inon this episode, and we'll chat
with you more next time.
Chat with you later.
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
(00:02):
I'm randy.
I'm And I'm Jess.
And we are two licensedpsychotherapists, and this is a
safe space where we talk aboutmental health, well being, and
strategies for coping withlife's challenges.
And how all of this is normal,and you are not alone.
In this episode, we're gonnatalk about what it means to be
grateful as we move forward intoNovember where we're constantly
told we should be grateful andfocus on being grateful.
Jess (00:27):
We're gonna explore why gratitude can be hard, why it
feels forced, and what you cando to be grateful and not
compare yourself to others.
So find us in more information.
on womensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
Have you ever had
Randi (00:41):
these thoughts
Jess (00:43):
You are so lucky.
Randi (00:45):
Wow, things seem to work out so easy
Jess (00:48):
for you.
Well, somebody else has itworse.
At least that's not.
At least you have your job.
Randi (00:54):
This is toxic, positivity and high alert.
Jess (00:58):
We did that episode a couple of months ago.
Randi (01:00):
Mm-hmm.
right?
Toxic.
Yeah.
We have a episode that you canlisten to called Toxic
Positivity.
Jess (01:04):
Why are we focusing on gratitude then for this episode?
Randi (01:07):
Well because in November, it's all about the holidays and
families and it's a nationalgratitude month and it's pushes
us and encourages us to embracethe power of gratitude.
But with that can also come witha lot of negativity with the
Jess (01:22):
positivity.
So when we focus on gratitude, alot of us will say, they connect
to being thankful.
Mm-hmm.
Because Thanksgiving, and weshould all be thankful and go
around the table and say whatwe're thankful for, but the
difference is that thankfulnessis a reaction.
Whereas gratitude is a chosenstate of being.
Randi (01:41):
So again, thankfulness is the reaction.
Mm-hmm.
gratitude is the state.
So that's the difference betweenthem.
You
Jess (01:48):
hand me a present mm-hmm.
and I'm like, Oh wow.
Thank you.
It's a reaction.
Yeah.
But whereas gratitude is beingable to say that action, I am
appreciative of this.
Yeah.
I'm grateful for this.
it is an action
Randi (01:59):
of it.
Or showing how you are thankfulfor that gift.
Cuz you're not always gonna begrateful for everything you get.
No.
It might be something that youhate
Jess (02:10):
so you wouldn't be there.
You're like, Oh wow.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Yo, I guess we should say, whatare the benefits of the
gratitude practice?
Why do we wanna be grateful forthings?
Randi (02:22):
So there are a lot of studies that show that being
grateful and focusing ongratitude can help improve your
sleep quality improve how youregulate your emotions, increase
feelings of happiness.
Overall mood.
Ooh.
Is it
Jess (02:40):
that serotonin stuff?
Yeah.
It's increasing your serotonin.
Yeah.
Randi (02:45):
Hashtag.
I don't have enough hairserotonin for this shit.
Just like our sweatshirts wehave, It helps you feel like
hopeful for the future.
Mm.
Okay.
And it can reduce your burnoutrate, things with ptsd,
posttraumatic stress disorder,and overall stress.
Jess (03:03):
So really what I'm hearing, it's a form of
appreciation, Whether beingthankful for a specific
situation or a wider lifeperspective.
It's
Randi (03:12):
the belief that you can connect to your feelings of
appreciation and gratitude andthat with that, you may feel
happier and more satisfied thatyou're like connecting those
things together.
Jess (03:26):
What I'm also hearing is that we're gonna be comparing,
our own situations to others,whereas we know with social
media that that's reallyharmful.
Randi (03:34):
Yes.
So that's where this is like agray area and a slippery slope
that you can slide down intowith feeling grateful.
But then you're like, Wait, soand so is doing this or got
this.
I am thankful for this, butmaybe I would be like, Thankful
or have more gratitude if, I hadthis and like we tend to think
(03:57):
that way.
I would say especially as women,we can tend to spin our thoughts
or
Jess (04:01):
compare ourselves to people that we think are doing
better than us.
When really, as we know associal media, that's all they
show.
So we don't know their
Randi (04:09):
situation exactly.
It could be like they're in adark, deep depressive hole, but
they're posting a really shinypicture.
And then we're comparing that.
But like we don't really knowthe reality.
Jess (04:19):
It's very harmful because it doesn't justify where we are.
Mm-hmm.
And that's the other thing aboutbeing false gratefulness or
gratitude, is that sometimesit's a sucky day and that's all
it is.
Randi (04:31):
Right?
And it's feel like there'snothing to be grateful for, you
might wanna burn your gratitudejournal that day.
And that's okay to feel thatway.
And that's what we reference tooin our toxic positivity episode,
is that you don't have to behappy and shiny and grateful 24
7.
Just because you're off one dayis not the end of the world.
(04:51):
Absolutely.
Jess (04:52):
Let's go back to, There's a theory called social
comparison theory, right?
Mm-hmm.
started back in the fifties bythis guy, Leon Festinger, and
this theory says that peopleconstantly evaluate themselves
and others in areas like whetherthey're attractive, if they have
enough money, if they're smartor successful.
Randi (05:12):
They're showing that at least 10% of our thoughts
throughout the day are in someway, shape, or form.
Comparing something whether,like you said, that's like
beauty, finances, our education,You know what we deem
successful.
We are cycling those thoughtsthroughout our day, at least
10%.
Jess (05:32):
That's a lot of time to be comparing ourselves.
I would say that when you
Randi (05:36):
think about that,
Jess (05:36):
yeah, 10% of the day that we are awake, if we're comparing
ourselves, I could be doingother stuff.
Yeah.
So why are you doing that?
it's toxic.
Well, it's, it's probablylearned.
We figure out how we stack upagainst others, and that is how
we figure out whether or notwe've made it right?
Mm-hmm.
or at least that's what we'vebeen
Randi (05:57):
told.
And so research is showingpeople who regularly compare
themselves to.
They can find some motivation toimprove, but that can also pair
with this, almost like obsessionto improve things and then you
can start feeling likedissatisfaction with where
(06:17):
you're at with that guiltremorse or start like with the
obsessiveness.
And worry about it.
An eating disorder could pop up.
Yeah.
Or like you start lying toyourself or other people like,
Yeah, things are great.
This is going and you're like,world is falling apart.
Cuz you wanna feel like you'reat a certain level, you're doing
more harm than good at times.
(06:39):
It's hard
Jess (06:39):
to say that you're having a bad day.
It's hard to say that.
Feel.
See here I go, You don't feel asgood as the person next to you.
Mm-hmm.
How do you know how they feel?
Cuz you're comparing what theylook like.
You're comparing what you looklike.
So basically this dude back inthe fifties already knew social
media was gonna
Randi (06:55):
screw us up and Well, it's always been that way.
Any type of media, thinking backthe early twenties and stuff
when they started using likepropaganda and things like that.
Mm-hmm.
like you're a housewife oryou're this, or like you should
buy.
All comes back to advertising.
Jess (07:09):
Advertising.
The evil.
Randi (07:11):
The evil.
Let's call it what it is.
It is all propaganda.
Started with the war.
They moved it into like homeshopping goods and we're here
today
Jess (07:19):
Next thing we have to have that ice maker.
Yes.
But we
Randi (07:23):
do Nugget, but we do Ice Maker is life changing.
Just side note it'll be here ina couple days.
Jess (07:28):
Thank you.
You're welcome.
You're welcome.
Done.
Okay.
So Theodore Roosevelt calledComparison, the thief of Joy
Randi (07:35):
and I.
all the time because it is verytrue.
And when we were discussing thisepisode and researching it
thought back to even in one ofthe 10 commandments.
It's been of course, twisted andthat differently, but it's no
shocker.
But it's thou shall not covetthey neighbor, things like that.
You're not supposed to watchthat.
(07:56):
Was
Jess (07:56):
that neighbor's?
Randi (07:57):
Yeah, but Oh, okay.
Okay.
Wife nugget, ice maker, whateverit is.
Like you're coveting.
I'm just
Jess (08:02):
good ice maker now.
Come on.
There's the reason it's
Randi (08:05):
number one, it has changed my life.
It brings me a lot of gratitude,
Jess (08:11):
Oh.
Randi (08:12):
But yeah, so I'm just saying, throughout history they
have said like, when youcompare.
yourself.
You're not gonna feel a hundredpercent.
That is
Jess (08:20):
one of the things I see in my practice all the time, is
that women are always comparingthemselves to other women.
Mm-hmm.
we talk about we don't reallydress for men.
Let's be real.
We dress up for other women.
Randi (08:32):
Yeah.
We want our friends to be like,You look cute.
Like you dress up to you today.
I was like, Damn, you look goodgirl.
Jess (08:39):
Thank you by the way, you.
But we don't, we don't dress upfor other, other, like the
opposite sex or, whoever we'reattracted to.
It's not necessarily theopposite sex.
Yeah.
But we dress up for other women.
We dress up for our friends.
We dress up not just for us.
Sometimes it's because we don'twanna be
Randi (08:57):
judged.
Yeah, that's true.
And, and my other company whereI do social media and stuff, I
am very transparent aboutshowing like when I'm wearing
like a cute outfit and stuff,that I'm also a hot mess the
other 50% of the time, andwearing, pajamas to work from
home.
Because in social media it canfeel like constantly comparing
(09:18):
you have your shit togetherbecause you're wearing like a
cute outfit and I'm.
I try to be like very real andupfront with my followers that
that's not true.
and I
Jess (09:28):
was just showing this morning or yesterday that for me
in my office, you see this nicepicture.
It's nice and clean.
Mm-hmm.
everything is organized behindme.
Yeah.
And then if you pan to the rightwhere the screen doesn't show,
all of my prime boxes have comein all of my, She has a lot of
prime
Randi (09:46):
boxes.
Jess (09:47):
All my art supplies are there.
Yeah.
And it's just a hot mess rightnow.
Yeah.
And so I was showing somebodyyesterday, I was like, All
right, hang on, hang on.
And I panned, I, I moved to mymonitor over.
Yeah.
And she.
Oh, that makes me feel better.
And I was like, Oh good.
Randi (10:03):
Yeah, and I think that that's, that is so important
when learning to practice, likegratitude and things like that,
that we.
In that moment do not compare toother people.
And more importantly understandthey are probably struggling
too.
Mm-hmm.
they probably have dishes in thesink too.
They probably have washed thatload of laundry five times too.
(10:25):
What?
No.
Or it's already smelly andmildewey in there, so just
speaking from experience.
But yeah, and having more.
Kindness to ourselves and otherpeople too.
Like not thinking like she hasher shit together because she
has those awesome boots on.
No actually she only slept twohours last night, aka me, but
(10:46):
she still has,
Jess (10:47):
Really good boots on.
Sometimes it's so difficult toshow or be or say gratitude and
there's reasons why.
And the main one I'm gonna gothrough is, We often overlook
these red flags inrelationships, right?
Mm-hmm.
like we're, we're being sograteful for
Randi (11:03):
whatever that we're, that we're in a relationship or we're
not alone.
Oh, oh, yes.
Oh, I'm not alone.
It could be worse.
Like we talked about that too.
It's like the emotional abuse.
Like it could be worse.
Well, it could be a lot better.
These things like feelinggrateful or like trying to like
downplay why you should begrateful.
Make a true practice ofgratitude.
Jess (11:24):
And it also goes through and like forces us to appreciate
things that don't serve usanymore, right?
Mm-hmm.
I was also telling this storyabout I've been carrying around
these genes going, I'm gonnalose weight.
I'm gonna get back in thesegenes.
I'm gonna lose weight.
I'm gonna get back on thesegenes.
Meanwhile, I've had a kid.
Married, I've now lost 85pounds, right?
These jeans, one, they didn'tfit my body anymore because my
(11:46):
body had changed from said kidand two, all of a sudden I've
lost weight to the point wherethey, they're too big So I've
wasted how many moving trucksmoving these, the.
Randi (11:59):
The space, The emotional baggage.
Literally.
Jess (12:02):
Yeah.
Of these genes that no longer
Randi (12:06):
served me.
They didn't serve a purpose forthe last 15 years either.
And they're not gonna serve apurpose in the future.
And but thinking about that too,like how much emotional shit do
we carry like
Jess (12:17):
that with us in that pair of jeans?
And they're still in my closet.
I'm like, Cause you physicallyhave it too.
Yes.
And I'm going, it was the oneday and I.
I still have'em in the closet.
I've gotta get rid of'em.
So
Randi (12:29):
listen, this, this attaches to that.
Instead of finding the perfectpair of jeans during that moment
that fit your body and made youfeel like a badass, that you
felt hot, sexy, confident, orwhatever in Yeah.
You were thinking about one dayI'm gonna fit into those jeans.
Do you see how that counteractedthat?
Mm-hmm.
So that's why gratitude can beso freaking hard.
Jess (12:52):
Cause I was like, I can't wait and I'll be so grateful
when I can fit into these jeansagain.
Well, guess what?
Now they're too big and they'renot even comfy.
I don't even know
Randi (12:59):
what, And they're probably like, not even like the
style like you would wearanymore, right?
And you're like, Why do I still
Jess (13:04):
have Well, the reality is the kids are all wearing the
style again.
Oh,
Randi (13:08):
well.
So that's true.
Stuff does cycle back.
But don't hold onto that.
Let it
Jess (13:11):
go right?
Oh, they're gonna go.
Another thing is that can glossover things that need our
attention.
Mm-hmm.
right?
Cause we're being so gratefulfor, trying to, to be so
grateful.
Mm.
That we're not paying attentionto the things that are like,
Hey, hey, I need you.
Hey, I, I
Randi (13:30):
need this.
Yeah.
We're not actually.
Focusing on the moment thatdeserve true gratification and
gratefulness.
We're not pausing to respectthose things that are actually
like bringing us joy and
Jess (13:43):
peace.
Mm.
Being in the moment.
Mm-hmm.
I was just talking about thatthis morning on Instagram.
That's so funny.
Yeah.
So it goes back to that toxicpositivity or what we call false
gratitude, right?
Randi (13:54):
Yeah.
Creates, insecurity because it'snot
Jess (13:57):
authentic.
Nope.
Not authentic.
Oh, I have, Oh, such Mm
Randi (14:01):
mm And we're very authentic here.
You guys know
Jess (14:04):
right?
And it's also sometimes when wehave false gratitude, it, it's
also because we're being forced.
It's like the expectation.
Mm.
When someone gives you a
Randi (14:14):
gift.
Yeah.
Like we were talking, likethey're expecting a response
from you and you're trying togive the expected response.
I don't like to open gifts infront of people because I don't
wanna feel like I'm having tomeet their expectations.
Mm-hmm.
I wanna process it and then belike, And for me too, I need
time to think and process thingsand then I want to be like, Oh
(14:35):
my God, like this was reallylike so thoughtful.
Thank you for this.
This is the reason I enjoy this.
Like I appreciate this so much.
Instead of just this fake Oh myGod, thank you so
Jess (14:45):
much.
I have a friend every time shedoes that, Oh my God, thank you
so much.
And she's super excited.
She doesn't like it.
And
Randi (14:52):
then that's me, right?
Jess (14:55):
And then when she goes through and she's, really quiet
and you think she doesn't likeit, that's when she's Oh yes, it
really touched her.
So I'm always like you didn'tlike it?
Oh, you liked it?
Oh no.
Randi (15:05):
It's totally opposite of whatever she is.
Yeah, I'm that way too cuz I'llbe like almost shocked, when I
get.
I gift gifts are my lovelanguage and I like giving gifts
too.
Jess (15:18):
And you're a good gift giver.
Yeah.
You're
Randi (15:20):
really good at it.
I'm like, I'm like reallythoughtful when I actually spend
time doing it.
And I'm
Jess (15:25):
always terrified.
I'm always like, Please don'tlet me pull Randy on this thing.
Please don't let me pull Randygift because I, she is so good
at it and it would just cause meso much anxiety, cuz I'm not as
good.
Randi (15:35):
And I think that's why people don't like giving me
gifts because, because I'm likegood at it.
And like I will spend literallylike hours, like trying to find
like the perfect gift forsomebody.
But then sometimes I'm like, itstresses me out and I'm just
like, Forget it.
This is what you're getting.
But yeah.
So it can take away from thatwhen it's not your gratitude.
(15:56):
Genuine and harmful.
And you can see how that canlike kind of like hurt, like
friendships and relationshipstoo if you're Well
Jess (16:02):
cause it feels demanded.
It feels like someone is sayingyou must be
Randi (16:06):
grateful.
Yeah.
So like even I don't let my kidsat birthday parties and stuff
like open up presents cuz Idon't want them to feel like
forced to give like a reaction.
We can do this later.
You can process it and then youcan thank everybody at a
different time.
That
Jess (16:18):
reminds me, it's like when this is old school.
I know, but when people expect athank you card for a gift they
gave you.
Randi (16:25):
Sorry, I don't do that.
Oh, I don't either.
I quit it.
You know what I found the otherday?
30 gift thank you notes for ababy shower.
Gifts I had received seven yearsago that I never mailed out, and
I don't feel guilty about it.
Jess (16:40):
No.
And I don't.
I don't do thank you notes.
Cuz if you are expecting a thankyou note for a gift you give,
then it's not truly a gift.
Randi (16:49):
It it comes with an expectation.
Yeah.
And this is all these cyclingthings that we start seeing
these connections.
If you guys have listened to ourpast episodes and stuff about
this and how all this stuff canbe intertwined with like the gas
lighting and like expectationsof women and like
Jess (17:05):
anxiety, it's so anxiety provoking, right?
Because then.
I have to tell them what I'mgonna do with this gift besides
give it away.
And then they're gonna get madbecause they wanna know where
this gift is in six months.
I know,
Randi (17:17):
like I'll read like weird things, like people like comment
like, Oh my God, like I have totake this statue out that my
mother-in-law gave me like 10years ago and I hate it.
And it, it's so gross.
But it like, if I don't have itout, like she's gonna be like,
so in, I'm like, That's abouther, not you.
Me.
It's not a gift.
It's not a gift.
Like I see so many things inlike mom's groups and stuff of
(17:39):
like women talking about thatstuff or like how their, in-laws
or even their own, parentsexpect their kids to play with
certain toys or do certainthings or wear certain clothes.
They bought them.
No, you do not own.
Shit.
You do not owe anybody shit.
Ooh,
Jess (17:57):
did we strike a nerve there?
Yeah.
Wow.
Randi (18:00):
Check out.
Don't, with my family, I'm not,I'm not a people pleaser in that
way.
I would never, But I see so manywomen do it.
Like it makes me cringe.
Cause I feel like.
You're like shrinking yourselfand almost like bowing down in
front of another person.
Jess (18:14):
And then honestly, it's like when you fake an orgasm,
then they're gonna keep doingthe same thing.
Why?
And then you're never gonna havea real orgasm because they think
they're doing it right.
No,
Randi (18:22):
teach them.
Teach them what you want andwhat you need.
Communicate.
That's why I send out a giftlist of what my kids actually,
Oh, I gonna talk about orgasms.
Okay.
Go ahead.
She's I found out again, she'sdocumentary about where to No, I
am very much No, don't do that.
Do this.
Feel like a lot of women arelike, fear, fearful.
Why?
You're gonna have better sex,you're gonna have a better
(18:43):
relationship.
Tell him don't touch that area.
Touch this area, Get up inthere, curve that, move this
way.
No, I don't like that.
Yes, I like that.
Do that.
Again, I am very vocal at that.
I don't wanna, I'm not wastingmy time.
You're killing me over here.
You are killing me over.
But anyway, same thing.
You can apply orgasm or gift.
Make that Amazon wish list.
Send it out for your kids.
(19:04):
You.
I made my husband a better giftgiver by being very specific.
This is what I want.
You can choose from it.
Okay, now I'm happy.
He's happy.
And now my friends are alwayslike, how he gives you the best
present.
You're like, I picked those out.
I, he now knows I've done itenough, like over the years, he
(19:25):
can now pick out a gift on hisown without referencing my
Amazon wishlist.
It takes a lot of training andit's taken a lot of
communication and it's taken alot of discussions about
communication, discussions,training about this does not
like gift giving is important tome.
It's not to him.
He doesn't care.
(19:45):
Yeah.
I love buying him gifts, but hedoesn't really care, but I do,
so I'm like, buy me a good gift.
Or we're not friends anymore.
Jess (19:52):
Okay.
Note taken.
I need your list.
No, No.
Okay.
So let's go back to beinggrateful.
Yeah.
How then do we actually practicegratitude and being grateful?
Be
Randi (20:03):
real.
Okay?
Like authentic communicate.
Don't fake it till you make it.
Don't fake that orgasm.
Don't fake your happiness aboutwhatever it is.
Whether that person's giving youtime.
Yes, space a gift.
It doesn't apply, to physicalthings only.
Thank you for giving me yourtime.
Thank you.
Like Jess and I were justtalking earlier, like about, we
(20:24):
were both trying to be like sohypersensitive to each other's,
like times, time, and schedules,
Jess (20:29):
and I was like, I didn't wanna impose on your time.
I know you're
Randi (20:31):
really busy.
Yeah.
And I was like, I know, I, Iknow Fridays are really hectic
for you right now.
And we were like both Oh my God.
Like we were trying to be, butthen we were like, Oh, that's so
thankful, but we need to be alittle bit harder with each
other.
No, we were being a little too.
Focusing
Jess (20:44):
on like some, some of the small themes.
Mm-hmm.
Go small versus the big ones.
We don't have to be authentic.
This was a great day.
Okay.
Maybe the entire day didn'tsuck.
Maybe it wasn't great.
Yeah.
But it's also being gratefulthat, you know what, I'm really
grateful that we did get to dotime to do this today.
Cause I enjoy being able to dothis.
Yes, exactly.
So I'm grateful.
(21:04):
Hold on.
My dog is snoring.
If you guys can't hear that,Hold on.
I gotta wake him up here.
Hold on.
All right.
That is not Randy The otherthing, Yes, I'm sorry.
The other thing would be tovalidate.
Mm-hmm.
validation is such a huge thing.
It's like validating youremotions.
Yeah.
Practicing validation.
My huge thing is that it's notblack and white.
(21:25):
It can be an, and there's no.
Or, mm-hmm.
Randi (21:29):
Yeah.
You can feel gratitude andanger.
You can feel gratitude anddisappointment.
You can feel, like you said, youcould be maybe grateful for one
side of the coin, butdisappointed in the other, and
that's okay.
But like then you can be like,Okay, I know I'm disappointed
with this, but I am grateful forthis and that, like you said,
(21:49):
comes.
Authenticity and validation.
Becoming comfortable withyourself and your emotions is
really where this needs to stemfrom.
Jess (21:59):
Well, and understanding that your feelings are real.
Mm-hmm.
and to validate
Randi (22:03):
yourself.
Yeah.
And you're worthy.
Like we say, every episode youare worthy, You.
Are worthy of being upset.
You're worthy of being grateful.
You're
Jess (22:13):
worthy of those big feelings, and you don't have to
hide your big feelings.
I see that all the time, that
Randi (22:19):
women, you're okay with them.
Talk about them.
Jess (22:21):
Validate them and stay away from comparisons.
Mm-hmm.
it just isn't a good thing tocompare yourself to others
because we don't know theirwhole
Randi (22:30):
story.
Mm-hmm.
and like I do, I do this withself still weekly.
It's something I use withclients with C B T therapy,
which is cognitive behavioraltheory, and I literally imagine
a big red stop sign in my headlike, Stop thinking this way.
And I will have to like pauseand be like, Why am I thinking
(22:51):
this way?
Is this really the reality?
What am I perceiving?
And what is really happening.
Have to have a little mini likepowwow with myself in my
Jess (23:01):
head.
Like I don't think she does itin her head though.
I think she really has a powwowin the car.
I think she's just had thisconversation down the road and
you think she's on the phone andshe is not.
But I'm just, Well,
Randi (23:11):
Yeah.
I'm just yelling down the roadlike at myself.
But yeah, and that's a way foryou to care for yourself.
And then sometimes if you can't,get help that you need, talk to
a friend, talk to a therapist,take the responsibility of
caring for yourself.
And taking the comparison awayand talk about it and work
(23:32):
through it.
I don't know if I've
Jess (23:33):
talked to you guys about this before.
I did a, an experiment a coupleof years ago, probably more like
seven years ago.
I had a new DSLR camera.
Mm-hmm.
And this was when people weredoing their big photo of a day
challenge and things you'regrateful for.
Well, I changed it to, I don'tknow, whatever I thought was
cool or made me happy or what.
At first it was really hard to aremember to do a
Randi (23:56):
photo of the day.
Oh, yeah.
Now they have those apps andstuff that you can do.
Yeah.
Jess (24:00):
But it was hard to remember to do a photo of the
day.
It was hard to, go, Oh, what'scool and what's different?
Mm-hmm.
And then I remember about twoand a half months in, I found
myself sitting in this traffic.
It was this awful area.
It was rain.
I looked over and there was adouble rainbow, and I was like,
Oh, that would make a reallycool photo.
And from that moment on, myphotos got better and better and
(24:23):
better.
And it was easier for me to seethem.
And it wasn't false.
It wasn't anything, but it wasjust, it was like I changed my
I, my, my vision.
Yeah.
You flipped your script.
I flipped my script.
Yeah.
And I can see a different Oh,that'd make a cool photo.
And I did it for an entire, AndI did it again for another tire,
(24:44):
an entire year.
Uhhuh, And it just, I could seedifferently cause I was looking
for something that was cool.
And so there are things to do,even if you, you're not feeling
gratitude.
There are things that you can doto, to help you like different,
to work towards
Randi (25:00):
that, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like you said, Thinking of itfrom a different perspective.
Mm-hmm.
or thinking of it from another'sperspective and how might they
feel?
And I think that goes hand inhand with becoming more
empathetic, which I feel we lacka lot of compassion in.
Yeah.
In this society.
And just like you said, you werefinding a connection and joy
(25:23):
like in that moment.
Where like everything was likechaos around you and you thought
like that double rainbow likebrought you joy and you could
focus on that.
And so that small pinpointmm-hmm.
you could just thumbtack thatlike that is what is bringing me
joy right now.
I'm grateful for that onesecond.
And that hour, that was liketotal chaos.
Jess (25:45):
It was the practice, daily practice of that.
Mm-hmm.
of looking for it cuz it's allaround us and sometimes we have
to look.
Dig deep
Randi (25:54):
sometimes
Jess (25:55):
Oh, there is the beginning photos.
I was digging deep.
It was, it was a deep dig.
But you know what I also havepeople do is they'll like a
gratitude journal.
I'll have'em write three thingsbecause I think 10 things is
Randi (26:07):
hard.
Yeah.
And we have a free one on thewebsite too.
You guys can download
Jess (26:11):
three things that you're grateful for that day.
And it could just be anythingsimple.
Nothing false, but I'm reallyglad I had coffee this morning.
Like I was so excited for my cupof coffee this
Randi (26:22):
morning.
Yeah, and if you can journal it,text it to yourself.
I don't know, like voice memoyourself.
Just say it out loud.
Yeah, say it out loud.
Or even say it, in your headlike, Man, that was really cool
right now.
Yeah.
That's it.
It doesn't have to be major.
Like I love buying journals.
I love writing, but like I'm notvery good at keeping up with
(26:43):
them, so No,
Jess (26:44):
no, no.
It's, it's not like a deardiary.
Yeah.
The other one is acts ofkindness.
Yeah.
So we were at the Starbuckscouple weeks ago, my daughter
and I, and there was a ladybehind us mm-hmm.
and I was like, Let's paper hercoffee.
She's like, Why?
And I.
Why not?
And she was like, Okay.
And so we paid for this lady'scoffee or whoever it was.
(27:04):
I don't, I'm assuming as a ladypaid for her coffee, her cha
latte or whatever.
And we went off and my daughterwas like, That was really cool.
Mm-hmm I'm like, Yeah, justsomething for fun.
And then the lady was driving byus cuz we were at a light and
she goes, Oh.
Mom Here she comes, here shecomes.
What do I do?
What do I do?
I'm like, Just act normal.
Yeah.
I don't know if she knows it wasus or not.
It's not a big deal.
We we're not looking
Randi (27:24):
for it.
We're not doing it forvalidation.
Jess (27:26):
Yeah.
And she says she looked at her,she goes, She had such a smile
on her face, Mom, and she wasn'tlooking at us, but she said she
was just driving with a smile onher face.
I said, we could have absolutelymade her.
Randi (27:39):
I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a minute.
Uhoh.
I have heard on the oppositeside from Starbucks employees
and some other people because Ihave a lot of low income clients
that have said that reallystresses them out because then
they feel forced to pay for theperson behind them.
Oh, and you know what?
They don't know if they couldafford it.
(27:59):
And I wanna say, With that.
The Starbucks people, I think,have learned to say You, you do
not need to pass this on tosomebody or don't worry about it
and stuff like that.
So I love random acts ofkindness.
I love doing that kind of stuff.
But I,
Jess (28:12):
the reason I did that though was because there was
nobody behind her.
Oh, perfect.
Randi (28:17):
So there was not a long, not like a long line that like
needs to be like, cuz somebody'swhat if, they order.
Yeah, like$50 worth of Starbucksand I can't afford that.
And I just wanted like my dollarcake pop
Jess (28:28):
No.
The reason they did it that daywas because there was, You were
more thoughtful.
Yeah, yeah.
There was nobody behind us.
I wasn't trying to create thisthoughtful train.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
It was really just for that oneperson in that one moment.
Yeah.
And my daughter goes, she saidthat, but what if there's a
person behind him?
And I was like, Nobody's behindhim.
This is just about them.
Randi (28:47):
Well, cuz you've raised a thoughtful kid, but Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause you're a thoughtfulperson, but, Oh, well thank you.
Jess (28:51):
You're, But yeah, we, we do, we thought of that, that,
because I was like, I don'twanna have to, I'm not trying to
create something here.
Mm-hmm.
because I feel bad when I breakit.
Yeah.
Cuz now I feel guilty that.
Randi (29:01):
And that's what can induce a lot of things.
So there's, Yeah.
But I love doing small, randomthings like that, and I do a lot
of like fundraising and stufflike that.
Mm-hmm.
and I, I do not like validationfor it, and it's really hard for
me.
We had done a big fundraiser.
She gets a little weird, just soyou know.
Yeah.
We did a bug.
Big fundraiser a couple yearsago and they wanted me to come
(29:23):
and present me with a giantcheck for their social media.
And I did not wanna do it, butit was to help this nonprofit,
right?
Mm-hmm.
And they wanted, to share likewhat I had done for them.
And I was like, But I don't dothis for recognition.
I am the type of person that Idon't need to be recognized for
(29:43):
my service acts.
Doing service acts is my,another love language of mine to
give mm-hmm.
to my community and stuff likethat.
A lot of people do service actsfor recognition and for me like
that doesn't validate like thegratitude I get from it.
I would rather be like behindthe scenes, but I realize okay,
it's helping them and like theirpresence and they want other
(30:06):
donors to know we had done this.
And so I was like, Okay, Istepped.
Out from behind the shadows todo this big check picture.
But yeah, it made me reallyuncomfortable, but I was like,
okay, that was a way for them toexpress gratitude to me and like
I was had to learn how to accept
Jess (30:24):
it too.
It's also okay Randy to say I'mnot comfortable with that.
Yeah.
Please accept it on my behalf.
Yes.
That's not what I'm looking for.
Yeah.
I love the holidays, especiallylike you've been booed,
especially like for October,like that, we did a couple in
October.
But what I do is I take out thepart where you're supposed to
redo it.
Because I hate that, that it'slike a chain mail.
(30:45):
Don't give me some, Rememberthose God chain mails?
Chain letters.
Chain letters.
That's
Randi (30:49):
it.
My mom used to be like soparanoid about those.
I'm gonna get bad luck if Idon't send it to seven.
My friends.
This weird.
And then it turned into like anemail chain thing, spam, and it
was like, what?
Jess (30:59):
Spam.
But we did that for little boysacross the street
Randi (31:02):
too.
Well, you're.
Stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like I like that you put you donot need to, cuz it's like maybe
they don't have, the money tomake like that basket or do you
know, whatever.
Jess (31:12):
Well, and I don't wanna create we'll do, we did a little
basket and gave it to them, butI didn't do the, you're supposed
to forward it because I don'twanna create that for that mom.
Mm-hmm.
because she more
Randi (31:22):
stress, more work.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She's trying, you're trying toalleviate something and bring
some joy, to their day andstuff.
And I just
wanted.
Jess (31:29):
See them open it through my window.
Keeping Tom, It was really funthough, right?
And my daughter ran over, rangthe doorbell, she ran back.
We did it all
Randi (31:36):
secretive.
Yeah.
I love doing that stuff too.
And I don't like ever do it withthe intention of expecting
getting anything in return.
And I think when you createthose kind of realities and
boundaries with yourself aboutyour expectations for gratitude,
it makes it more powerful, andthat.
The type of things that helpwith increasing your serotonin
(31:58):
and reducing your stress likeand improving relationships and
friendships just as over here,like knocking over all of our
audio equipment.
I
Jess (32:07):
so excited that like I knocked everything over.
Oh my gosh.
I'm gonna have to hold it
Randi (32:11):
now.
Oh, we're hot messes all thetime.
The time.
And learn to feel gratitudewithout the comparison and the
guilt and things like that, liketrue gratitude that can improve
your overall
Jess (32:21):
health.
I also wanna say, you don't haveto have a gratitude practice.
If you're rolling into Novemberand you're like, I don't wanna
do this, don't
Randi (32:30):
do it.
It can be hard.
Like a lot of people have familyissues.
You can say, Fuck gratitude,right?
It's, It's not your thing.
It doesn't have to be yourthing.
Yeah.
You don't need to take onanother thing.
We don't
Jess (32:38):
need another thing.
It's okay if it's going to harmyour mental health.
We will both be the first peoplethat say Don't
Randi (32:45):
do it.
Yeah.
Drop it, Put up that boundary.
I'm not doing gratitude journal.
This is dumb.
This is one more thing on myplate.
Okay.
Jess (32:51):
And for those who have the gratitude practice of they gave
it up to God, they give it up tothe universe, then keep it.
If that works for you, then keepit.
Randi (33:00):
Yeah.
Find.
You can fit it in, work it foryou, or dump it and cut it.
If it doesn't work for you,there's no guilt.
No shame here.
Jess (33:09):
Nope.
Just if it doesn't serve apurpose, it's okay to let it go.
Yep,
Randi (33:13):
Exactly.
Thank you guys for listening inon this episode, and we'll chat
with you more next time.
Chat with you later.
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