February 26, 2025 • 39 mins
Do you feel drained from constantly saying "yes" out of obligation? In this episode of Women’s Mental Health Podcast, we dive into the power of setting boundaries, overcoming guilt, and breaking free from people-pleasing. Join Randi Owsley, LMSW, and Jessica Bullwinkle, LMFT—licensed psychotherapists with 23 years of experience in women’s mental health—as they unpack the emotional toll of obligation, how to stop people-pleasing, and practical strategies to prioritize yourself without guilt. If you’re ready to reclaim your time, energy, and mental well-being, this episode is for you!
Struggling to break free from the cycle of doing things out of obligation? It’s time to set boundaries and prioritize yourself without guilt. Learn how to stop people-pleasing and start making choices that align with your well-being. Discover practical coping skills and tools to help you say no without guilt, establish healthy mental health boundaries, and regain control over your time and energy. Whether you’re looking for strategies to start breaking free from obligation or insights on how to prioritize yourself, you’ll find the resources and support you need to create a healthier, more balanced life.
In upcoming episodes, we’ll dive deeper into essential topics that impact women’s mental health, including the power of setting boundaries, the connection between people-pleasing and anxiety, and how ADHD influences the struggle to say no. We’ll also explore the challenges of postpartum and boundaries, as well as overcoming guilt as a mom. Our goal is to provide actionable strategies and real-life insights to help you break free from obligation and reclaim your sense of self. Stay tuned and join the conversation using #BoundariesMatter, #PeoplePleasingNoMore, #MentalHealthForMoms, #SayNoWithoutGuilt, and #SelfCareNotObligation.
Why is it important to stop doing things out of obligation?
How do I start setting boundaries without feeling guilty?
Can saying 'no' to obligations improve my relationships?
What if saying 'no' leads to conflicts or misunderstandings?
How do I deal with the fear of missing out (FOMO)?
What if my choices upset people I care about?
How do I differentiate between obligation and genuine desire?
What are some practical ways to politely decline an obligation?
How do I maintain my resolve when it feels easier just to give in?
#BoundariesMatter #PeoplePleasingNoMore #SayNoWithoutGuilt #BreakFreeFromObligation #MentalHealthBoundaries #StopPeoplePleasing #PrioritizeYourself #SelfCareNotObligation #OvercomingGuilt #WomenEmpoweringWomen
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The Women’s Mental Health Podcast, hosted by licensed therapists Randi Owsley MSW and Jessica Bullwinkle LMFT, PMH-C, offers educational and entertaining mental health content. This is not therapy or a substitute for professional care. No therapeutic relationship is formed by listening or engaging. Some links may be affiliate links, which may earn us a small commission at no extra cost to you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Randi (00:00):
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
(00:02):
I'm randy.
I'm And I'm Jess.
And we are two licensedpsychotherapists, and this is a
safe space where we talk aboutmental health, well being, and
strategies for coping withlife's challenges.
And how all of this is normal,and you are not alone.
Today we're talking about apowerful topic that can be life
changing for women deciding tostop doing things out of
obligation.
(00:22):
This is something many womenstruggle with, whether it's in a
relationship, at work, or evenwithin their families.
It can have a huge impact onmental health and well being.
Jess (00:32):
Exactly.
I have decided I will no longerdo things out of obligation.
That is just right there.
Look at me.
I'm like powerful.
Yeah.
I'm not
Randi (2) (00:42):
going to do it anymore.
We're going to put our footdown.
Jess (00:44):
To
Randi (2) (00:45):
say
Jess (00:45):
no.
I'm going to be my innertoddler.
Okay.
Find us and more information onwomensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
Randi (00:52):
So have you ever had these thoughts?
Jess (00:54):
Why is it so important to stop doing things out of
obligation?
Randi (00:58):
How do I start setting boundaries without feeling
guilty?
Jess (01:01):
Can I say no to obligations and can it improve
my relationship?
Randi (01:06):
What if saying no leads to conflict or
misunderstandings?
Mm hmm.
Jess (01:11):
How do I deal with the fear of missing out, FOMO?
Which, by the way, we did apodcast on that, FOMO vs.
Randi (01:18):
JOMO.
Anyways, okay, that's why we'retalking about this.
Yeah.
What if my choices upset peoplethat I care about?
Randi (2) (01:26):
How do I differentiate
Jess (01:27):
between obligation and genuine desire?
That's a good one.
Randi (01:30):
Is it possible to find a balance between being
accommodating and maintaining myown personal boundaries?
Jess (01:38):
What are
Randi (2) (01:39):
some practical ways to
Jess (01:40):
politely decline an obligation?
And I think that one we shouldprobably role play that a little
bit, because that's a good oneto say no thank you or without
giving too much or any excuses.
Randi (01:50):
So how do I maintain my boundaries?
And my resolve when it feelseasier just to give in.
Mm hmm.
How do we define an obligation?
Jess (02:01):
For me, when I say we do things out of obligation, what
we're talking about is makingchoices or saying yes to things,
not because we generally wantto, but because we feel like we
should, or that we have to.
Remember the shoulds and thehaves and the couldas and
wouldas.
Randi (02:18):
I feel like kind of an obligation, like the definition
has gotten Smudged because itused to be like something that
you have to do that is going toimpact your livelihood or You
have to do it.
Yeah, your life.
Jess (02:32):
We do it to avoid guilt most of the time.
We do it because we're trying tomeet somebody else's
expectations or we're trying tomaintain some status quo.
And so it's not because it'sgoing to impact our life.
I think obligations now are moreso based upon feelings.
We're doing it to try to avoidsomething.
No! We're not.
Randi (02:50):
obligated.
We feel obligated.
Yes.
So it's just that we're feelingthis guilt or this shame we're
attaching an emotion to thisevent.
It's not a necessity.
But we feel maybe like it is
Jess (03:07):
well, because most of us are people pleasers.
And so we're trying to makeother people happy so we're not
maintaining our boundaries bydoing this.
The problem is that when we livewith this obligation mode, it
really leads to us gettingresentment and burnt out and
really not feeling fulfilledbecause we're doing stuff for
other people or that we thinkother people think we should be
(03:30):
doing.
Do and doesn't that getconfusing that we think that
other people think we should bedoing it so that we do it, but
we don't really know.
Randi (03:37):
Yeah, because we've we're not actually communicating or
asking them maybe that's wherewe need to start is saying.
Is this really important to you?
Oh.
Is this going to affect ourfriendship if I don't show up?
Or is this going to affect myposition at work really, what is
the bottom line here?
I think that we just like tiptoearound this.
(03:58):
I know, but what if they said,yeah, and you're like, I
Jess (03:59):
still don't want to do it.
Randi (04:00):
At least then you know you tried.
Jess (04:02):
So okay, let's go through and let's talk about where did
these feelings of obligationcome from?
Randi (04:07):
For many women, I feel it's rooted in social
conditioning.
It's how like society hasbrought us up.
We, like you said, are taught tobe people pleasers from a young
age, whether it's in ourfamilies, our schools.
Oh, go hug Uncle Creepy
Randi (2) (04:22):
Joe.
Randi (04:22):
Yeah, no.
We learn to attach.
Gratification with these thingsokay, that made, my mom or my
teacher happy because I did whatthey asked of me, even if I
didn't like doing it, or it mademe feel
Jess (04:38):
awkward.
Is that gratification, or isthat like, how, what's the word
I'm thinking of, Randi?
Here, let me see if I can get mybrain to you.
It's like
Randi (04:45):
reward.
Yeah.
Rewarded.
Because,
Jess (04:48):
exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah,
Randi (04:49):
I, I think that we learn to think that it's gratifying,
but we're like associating itlike Pavlov's dog, right?
Like he associated whatever, thebell with the tree.
We learn to think that maybethis is how it's perceived to
be, but in reality, it's not,and it's not really fulfilling
(05:09):
and gratifying, it's not.
Making our hearts happy.
Jess (05:13):
Well, that's because we also learned from a young age
that saying no is selfish you'rebeing difficult.
You're being selfish or you'reUngrateful if you say no, I
don't want to do that.
Well, why because you'reungrateful And so it gets
reinforced in our familydynamics.
It gets reinforced at school andwork culture.
(05:34):
If you say no to the project,you're no longer a team player,
even though you're like, that'sa shitty project.
And I don't want that project.
But then that's what happens ifyou say no or put boundaries on
it.
And that is, I think what thiscurrent generation or this
current timeframe that we're inis trying to change.
Randi (05:50):
Yeah.
Is that
Jess (05:50):
we're not doing that anymore.
Randi (05:52):
Yeah.
And also I feel like how women,we've talked about this, time
and time again are the kinkeepers, we're the nurturers,
we're the accommodating, we'resupposed to make sacrifices.
Well, that's not fair.
We're not the only ones in thisequation.
It doesn't always need to fallon us to be the ones that are
cutting into our personal timeor our sanity, or our well
(06:14):
being.
Jess (06:15):
So I announced to my family this year, there's four
of us.
And I just said, you know what?
This year we all get to dosomebody else's stocking.
I'm no longer doing all thestockings.
I said, I'm going to do oneperson.
One person can do mine.
I said, and tell you what boys,you can do each other's.
And us girls will do eachother's this year.
And next year, maybe we'll picknames.
My daughter goes, You know thatthey're not gonna do one.
I said cool.
(06:35):
Well, i'm not gonna worry aboutit Then they don't get it.
That's up to them We'll put alimit on it for financial
reasons.
And this is what you spend onthe person stalking And there
you go
Randi (06:44):
I did a similar thing this past week with our meal
planning I was like Everybodygets, because there's now three
adults, I have an adultdaughter, and I was like
everybody gets to participate.
Either you have to make a meal,or you have to order the meal.
One day you can pick to order.
there's three of us that areadults and one child, so I was
(07:06):
like, that's six days.
And then one day of the week, wedo like a family.
Either we all pick or we allcook together.
Jess (07:12):
Or we just do a fin for yourself and you guys figure out
whatever leftovers are stilledible.
Randi (07:16):
I'm so tired of us all being like, what's for dinner?
And everybody's bitching at eachother after we're all done.
Tired and hungry and not cominghome from work.
And I was like, no, so everybodyneeds.
To pick a day.
That's your day.
Okay, cool.
Bye.
Yeah, I'm
Jess (07:30):
done doing it.
Yeah, and so because What you'retalking about this burnout,
right?
Because when we do things out ofobligation, you know If you feel
you have to make dinner everynight because you're the woman
we are going to get burnt outI'm already burnt out.
You're burnt out half the
Randi (07:46):
world is
Jess (07:46):
burnt
Randi (07:47):
out.
Jess (07:47):
I
Randi (07:47):
feel like I'm seeing so many things about women being
mentally just drained and justphysically
Jess (07:53):
and emotionally like I
Randi (07:55):
can't do everything done with everything like I saw a mom
crying on TikTok the other dayhow am I supposed to do all this
stuff like go to work pick themup from school take them to
school do this meal prep likebuy all the things do all the
things and people are likeyou're not but like We don't
have a village like, we used towe don't have a community.
We don't have family that livesnearby We don't have anybody to
(08:17):
help us.
So we're all collectively
Jess (08:20):
drowning.
Mm hmm Well, and you're talkingabout dinner last night the
teenager made dinner for herselfthe young adult made dinner for
himself He ate leftovers fromthe night before and then so dad
and I were left so I ordered usdinner and the kids are like You
didn't order us anything.
I was like, no, y'all alreadyate dinner and didn't offer us
anything.
So we ate our, we, yeah, weordered dinner
Randi (08:39):
and stopped feeling like bad about it.
I didn't, I didn't feel bad atall.
Like I did that the other daytoo and my partner's like you're
not ordering the kids anythingAnd I was like no because I
asked them 20 times what do youwant?
Nobody gave him any answer and Iwas like too bad.
So sad.
I ordered what I want.
Jess (08:55):
Yeah We ordered by dinner.
I said, hey, I ordered dinnerand he was like cool.
Did you order the kids?
I said, nope, they already atehe was like they ate what they
eat I was like, I don't know butthey ate not worried about it.
They're alive.
It's cool So think aboutobligations when we're talking
about things that we feelobligated for for me It brings
up either A, a lot ofresentment.
I resent that I have to do thisor that I agreed to do this
(09:15):
because I didn't want to dothis, which to me says I should
have had a better boundary.
Or the other thing is it makesme so anxious.
We've talked about doing thecookie party this year.
I probably won't do it becauseI'm too busy and it makes me so
anxious to have everybody overmy house to make cookies.
Randi (09:30):
Yeah.
Jess (09:30):
And I think about that.
Yeah.
Randi (09:32):
And I'm like, I don't even know.
If it's thinking, if it's makingyou feel.
That level of anxiety already.
Right now?
Yeah.
I'm not doing it.
Like, why?
Maybe you're just like, hey, Ijust want to have my friends
over in sweats and two people.
I might just
Jess (09:44):
be like, mm, no, I don't even want to do that.
Randi (09:46):
Sorry.
Yeah.
You don't need to make any plansif you don't want to, and I feel
that's like where I'm at, too.
Yeah.
Is this really, it's been a funkthe other day and my friend's
oh, come take you out and go.
And I was like, that event islike so busy and there's so many
people there and I was like, Idon't think that would make me
feel better.
I was like, nah, I was like,that's something you want to do.
(10:08):
But
Jess (10:08):
normally you would have said yes.
Yeah, you would have feltobligated and said yes.
And so now you're like, no,that's not what I want to do.
I think i'm going to stay in mysweats or be in my funk or go
get coffee.
And that might be something Iwant to do.
And so it's different, right?
Because It affects our selfesteem when we always feel
obligated and we're not gettingthe rewards.
I teach my kid this, is that ifyou aren't getting something
(10:30):
from the friendship, then whyare you giving so much?
And this is the same thoughtprocess.
Randi (10:35):
Well, because then I feel like we also internalize that,
especially as women andteenagers and young adult women,
like I'm giving to thisrelationship or this friendship
and I'm not getting anythingback.
What's wrong with me?
The scope back on ourself, thenthat doesn't usually have
anything to do with it.
No,
Jess (10:53):
there's nothing wrong with you.
What's wrong is you keep givingto people who keep taking and
they're not giving anything inreturn.
Randi (10:58):
And you're not holding up your boundaries that, maybe like
this relationship, maybe there'ssome red flags there that you're
ignoring, but we've all beenthere and done that.
Jess (11:07):
Randy loves to ignore red flags because she thinks
everybody's a nice person atheart.
So she ignores all the red flagsand she sees all the good in the
people.
And meanwhile, I'm in the cornergoing, why, why do you like her?
I don't get it.
No, I don't want to do that.
I don't want to do that.
No, no, no.
I don't want to do
Randi (11:22):
that.
She's I don't know about thisperson.
And I'm like, I know and I'mjust like, I just feel bad.
Cause I know what it feels like.
And then that's an
Jess (11:30):
obligation right there.
She feels obligated because sheknows what it feels like.
So that's exactly what that is.
So let's stops.
Saying yes and start saying no.
I will no longer be obligated todo things that I don't want to
do anymore
Randi (11:44):
Yeah, say it again.
Just say right now say it outloud.
I will no longer Feel obligatedto do things that I don't want
to do anymore.
Yeah, just period it feels sogood
Jess (11:57):
isn't it
Randi (11:57):
feel good?
Randi (2) (11:58):
It feels so good
Jess (12:01):
Let's talk about How the pressure, how do we deal with
the pressure to feel when wefeel obligated to do something
when somebody says, we havesomeone that keeps asking us to
do stuff and Randy and I arekind of like, I don't know, I
don't want to do that.
And I'm like, No, I don't wantto do that.
I don't know.
And then Randy was like, I don'tknow what my calendar is.
(12:23):
I haven't gotten that togetheryet.
And I was like, Oh, that'sfunny, Randy.
But she still left it out there.
I was like, Yeah, I'm busy.
I have something I'm doing thatday.
Randi (12:32):
So that's also a solution, but what are some
real, like solid solutions thatwe can do to make the choice if
we are feeling so overwhelmed,so burnt out, so drained, so
tired.
To start working theseboundaries with people.
Jess (12:48):
Well, you just said it it is set healthy boundaries And I
know we're always sayingboundaries boundaries and
boundaries But set healthyboundaries
Randi (12:57):
because not just for the big things I think for the small
things too.
Yeah, because it's all thoselittle tiny things that I feel
like can add up
Jess (13:08):
it's setting those healthy boundaries and those little
things do add up because whenyou can identify what situation
you do or don't want to do, wego, Oh, it's only a few minutes.
One, we underestimate our time.
It'll only take an hour.
No, dude, that's like a two orthree hour event.
Randi (13:23):
That's so true.
Because even they say like, Whenwe pause in a workday to look at
our emails, to get back intowhat we were doing, it takes
about 26 minutes.
So that one minute detour endsup taking almost like 30 minutes
total.
Jess (13:38):
And that's not the thought process that you're putting into
it.
That's, that is just thephysical.
Yeah,
Randi (13:43):
the emotional and the mental drain of should I do
this?
Should I not do this?
If you're even like Questioningif you're not 100% yeah should
you even be doing it?
Jess (13:54):
Yeah,
Randi (13:54):
if
Jess (13:54):
it's not instantly yes.
Then it really should just belike, yeah, I don't want to do
that.
That's not going to work for me.
we'll do some role plays here aswe do our have you evers.
I want you guys to learn toreframe your mindset because if
you feel guilty saying no, Iwant you to figure out why do
you feel guilty saying no, wheredoes that come from?
Yeah.
There's a
Randi (14:13):
root of an issue there of something maybe in your
childhood or a relationship thatyou said no.
And it was.
Almost like traumatic or yougot, pushback from it that you
felt for me I can remember avery pivotal point I was in
kindergarten and I loved mykindergarten teacher so much
Like he used to come over andhave family dinners with us.
(14:34):
Okay, this is in the 80s.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay I just made her okay.
It's not normal now, but And I,just loved him, felt like safe
place, like such an amazing partof my life.
And then I was talking in classand I got in trouble for talking
in class.
And I felt so crestfallen andlike upset that I had
(14:55):
disappointed him.
That I never talked in classever again.
And that's what's for the restof my school.
So it was like that, like thatcrushing feeling of, Oh my God,
like I'm in trouble and Idisappointed this person.
And then I was like, neverwanted to raise my hand in
class.
I never talked, like I turnedeverything like inward
Jess (15:15):
yeah.
And that's not fair to you.
And if you had shared that withsomebody, I'm sure some, well,
maybe not then, now, now they'llwalk you through it and be like,
you don't have to own that andwe'll talk to you about it.
Back then.
They probably were like, yeah,you shouldn't have been talking.
The eighties weren't very kindto us.
Randi (2) (15:30):
Sorry guys.
Okay.
Randi (15:32):
But that brings in also practicing that self compassion.
So when this stuff does happenor you do get pushback from,
inserting your boundaries andsaying no to things.
that, aren't good for you, thatyou don't lose who you are.
You don't lose your sense ofself over it.
Jess (15:49):
Exactly.
We all deserve to live a lifethat aligns with what we want to
do and what our values are.
Not one that's directed by theseexternal expectations and
obligations and pressures.
I would love to live a life, andI'm moving forward doing so,
doing what I want to do.
Not what somebody I should do orwhat they think they want me or
(16:11):
I think they want me to do.
I'm doing what I want to do.
And unfortunately I wish I hadlearned this 30 years ago and at
a younger age.
So I'm hoping I'm teaching mydaughter that who knows.
Randi (16:23):
Yeah.
It was interesting because I sawanother video too, the other day
about this girl talking abouthow she was working for multiple
companies, like work from home.
And she's we're stacking thismoney.
Like we're doing this.
We don't, we don't owe anybodyan obligation.
She was like.
If I want to work for fivecompanies at once, I'm going to
work for five companies at once.
She was like, I'm getting mywork done.
(16:43):
I think that's
Jess (16:45):
slightly illegal.
I actually think that you,that's a, there's something in
me that says that, that you'renot supposed to do that.
Now, when I say not supposed to,I really want to be like, I
don't know, maybe with theethics.
It might.
I guess if they don't have thesame hours, it doesn't really
matter.
If it's just a whenever thing, Iguess it doesn't matter.
Randi (17:04):
I don't know what ethically maybe not I think it
would depend if you had signed,some kind of NDA or Yeah,
disclosure, like statement orsomething.
Or oh,
Jess (17:13):
those, I don't know.
Those aren't even, honestly,those, those disclosures you
signed, they're not even legal.
Even in like California, they'renot legal.
They don't really hold up.
No, they don't hold up fornothing.
But yeah,
Randi (17:22):
so I don't know.
I was just saying like herattitude about being like, I'm
not obligated to do this or toconform to this idea, like I'm
just.
Doing it because I want to.
And I was like, okay, I likethat.
I do like it.
Do what you want, what makes youhappy.
Okay, let's answer our, have youever questions?
(17:42):
Okay, so what is.
Why is it important to stopdoing things out of this feeling
of obligation?
Jess (17:51):
One, because feeling, the feeling of obligation is
bullshit.
But because it doesn't alignwith my values or it doesn't
make me feel good.
It doesn't, it's not authentic.
I don't want to be unauthenticanymore.
I want to do what I want to do.
Randi (18:07):
I think that too, if I'm saying yes to something and I
don't really want to be there isthat really beneficial, not only
to me, but to that person orfriend?
Aren't they going to feel that Idon't want to be there?
Like, why?
If it's not, fulfilling on bothends.
Jess (18:23):
Exactly.
If, I keep telling you, ifyou're not getting something out
of it, or if I'm not gettingsomething out of it, then why do
I keep doing it?
It's like going down the one wayroad when there's nothing there.
Why do we keep going down theone way road?
It still hasn't, given usanything in return, but we keep
going down it hoping it'schanged.
Randi (18:39):
Yeah.
Jess (18:40):
Which, that's an obligation.
So Randi, how do I start settingboundaries without feeling
guilty?
Oh, good one.
Randi (18:46):
Start very small, work your, if you're anxious about
setting boundaries, especiallywith people that you know will
maybe like Push back or gonnaget like emotional about it and
be kind to yourself.
Have that self compassion thatyou are learning to set
boundaries.
You are learning to step backand that's okay if you stumble
(19:07):
or if you give in, you can stillreset, you have that option to
reset that boundary again andagain and again and again, if
you need to.
Jess (19:15):
And remember, you are not responsible for somebody else's
response to your boundary.
Unless you are being an a hole,then okay, fine, maybe.
But if you're gonna say no, thatdoesn't suit me, I don't, I
don't feel like doing that, I'mnot available, whatever it is,
If they get upset, that is onthem.
(19:35):
They're adults and they have tolearn to work through that.
You are not there to workthrough their emotions.
You are putting your boundaryout there and they may not like
it.
Yeah.
You're not there to
Randi (19:45):
carry their emotions.
We have enough of our ownemotions that we carry.
Yeah.
And that we can hardly deal withourselves, let alone carrying
the burden of somebody else'semotions.
So can saying no.
Help your relationships.
Jess (20:01):
Yes, if it is a genuine relationship It will flourish
when we show up as our trueshell shelves true to shell
shelves to shelf You can't saythey're true selves Saying no
Really allows me to be genuinewhen I say yes
Randi (2) (20:21):
And so
Jess (20:22):
right there, you know that if I'm showing up I'm showing up
because I want to show up notbecause I feel like I
Randi (20:29):
have to and you're there you're present Yes, because you
want to be there.
You want to be immersed inexperience.
You want to be supportiveThere's not other stuff that's
like you're worried about orthat's dragging you down or
you're stressed about or you'renot a lot of times to we say yes
to stuff and we can't afford it.
Oh, yeah, that calls causes afinancial drain, not only our
(20:49):
physical.
Finances, but our well being aswell because then we're like, oh
my god, like this is going toimpact I'm not going to be able
to pay this bill or this bill orthis bill I'm gonna have to
shift this stuff and it's likehow can you be present in that
situation if it's that drainingon you?
Jess (21:02):
Well, and the other thing too is think about time.
My time is so valuable that Ican't we have this stupid
concept of let me carve outtime.
Let me make time.
Let me set aside time.
I can't make time.
I
Randi (21:15):
can't carve time.
It's not a pumpkin.
Am I Harry Potter?
Can I right?
Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo sometime?
I wish I could.
If I could,
Jess (21:22):
I would be so dang rich because I don't need money.
I need time.
Yeah, I need money, but I need Ireally need time.
But I think that was
Randi (21:30):
part of what was good for me is having that mindset shift
that For me, time is valuable.
Time is important.
I only have a certain amount oftime in the day, and I need to
make sure that I allot itcorrectly for my mental health
and my family and my well being.
And also, to me, time is money.
Jess (21:51):
I was just going to say, and you know what I do a lot of
times is I say, okay, this iswhat I make an hour.
Yep.
Is it worth an hour of my time?
Yeah.
Am I willing to give an hour ofwork For this item for this
adventure for whatever andsometimes i'm like no sometimes
i'm like, yep Totally i'll justwork an extra hour if I really
want it that bad or i'll workthis or that because I want it
(22:14):
Or I feel it's worthy.
And so That is yeah time or can
Randi (22:18):
my time be spent?
Yeah better doing this.
See can my time be spent?
Yeah,
Jess (22:23):
it's all wrapped up.
It is all wrapped up there.
What if saying no leads toconflicts or misunderstandings
randy because you know it alwayswill What if?
How about when?
When?
Randi (22:33):
When?
Well, conflict doesn'tnecessarily need to mean
something negative.
Like it doesn't always have tobe bad.
Growth can happen from conflict.
Conversation and communicationcan come from conflict.
What if?
Sometimes we need conflict toget out of, yeah, to grow and
get out of a rut or maybe like aspace that we're in.
(22:54):
When you are met withresistance, then you can again,
Reassert your boundaries.
Communicate your needs, yourwants, your feelings.
talk about what yourexpectations are with this
person.
Well, what is your expectationof this situation?
And this is my expectation.
And maybe how can we meet in themiddle because of this?
(23:14):
Having honest conversation canreally help alleviate
misunderstandings.
Jess (23:20):
I found that in our house recently, I was trying so hard
not to not be myself, but toparent different with an oldest
Randi (23:28):
that
Jess (23:28):
I finally just said, I can't do this.
This is not me.
This is not genuine.
This is my house.
I'm going to go back to doingwhat I know.
And that's it.
I can't change.
I don't change.
Want to change in my house thatway, because it's not genuine
for me to be this way.
Randi (2) (23:43):
And
Jess (23:43):
once I did that, the house kind of went back into, Oh,
okay.
Now we know what theexpectations are and the whole
house just shifted.
And it was like, Oh, if I hadjust been genuine with my
thoughts and feelings in thevery beginning.
Yeah.
About the situation, it wouldhave been probably a hell of a
lot different.
Randi (23:58):
Yeah.
I think sometimes we putexpectations on ourselves that
we should be acting a certainway or we've read something and
we think we need to apply thesethings.
And then you're almost trying tolike force this, this
relationship or this way to goabout things and then you're
like, why is this not working?
Jess (24:14):
Yeah.
This is so hard.
My grandma always said, the pathis that hard.
You're on the wrong path.
Yes, it's not going to be easy,but if you feel like you're just
continually hitting your headagainst the wall obviously
there's no door there, so youneed to find a different way to
go.
All right, so what do I do if Ihave FOMO, which is fear of
(24:35):
missing out?
I
Randi (24:37):
have to say, you have to tell yourself again, a mindset
shift.
Quality, not quantity.
You don't have to do everything.
You don't have to be everywhere.
You don't have to be everybody'sfriend.
You don't have to be doing allthe things all the time and burn
yourself out anymore.
Trust in yourself.
to find the things that bringyou joy, bring you connection
(24:58):
and make your life better sothat you're not spreading
yourself thin.
You have to, again, go back tokind of like the root, like what
is triggering you to feelpanicked that you're going to
miss out on something and reallythink about it.
Are you really going to miss outon something?
What do you think that you aregoing to miss out on?
Jess (25:18):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Cause half the time you getthere and you're like, well,
that sucked.
I didn't miss out on
Randi (25:22):
anything.
Exactly.
Like, why did I even bother?
Right?
Now, what if these choices,again, this kind of aligns with
conflict and misunderstanding,but what if the person really is
upset about this decision thatyou've made?
Jess (25:34):
I think it's really natural to worry about other
people's feelings.
We really don't want to hurtfeelings.
we grew up going, you hurt theirfeelings, say, sorry.
How many people have told theirchild, you hurt my feelings?
But is it genuine when you saysorry?
No, it's not because you'remaking them do it, but you're
not responsible for theirhappiness.
You're responsible for yourhappiness.
(25:55):
And so you want people who aregoing to truly understand and
support you now There are waysto say it with people when we
were talking about kind of roleplaying some of the things I
like to say is unfortunatelythat doesn't work for me And if
people say why not you don'thave to give them a reason you
say it just doesn't
Randi (2) (26:12):
yeah
Jess (26:12):
I find the more excuses you give people, the more that
they can grab onto to change it.
And
Randi (26:20):
then
Jess (26:20):
they can make it, you're just giving them more to like
hook on.
Yeah.
So it's, I'm sorry, that doesn'twork for me.
Unfortunately, I'm not going tobe able to do that.
Why not?
I'm just not.
You don't have to tell them.
You can straight up to say, I'mnot going to be able to go.
I'm not going.
You can do that.
But most of us feel weird doingthat.
So I do like to say, it's likesaying, sorry, I'm late.
(26:43):
It's thank you for waiting forme.
Thank you for your patiencewhile I got back to you or while
I was running late.
It's a different mindset whenyou say that.
I
Randi (26:51):
think it's, yeah.
And like the tone and the wayyou're saying it, I feel it's
just like a polite way ofsaying, no, I'm not fucking
going.
Jess (26:59):
And you can say, Yeah, that's not my thing.
That's another one.
That's not my thing.
Randi (27:04):
That's not my thing And we we had a I don't have time
for that No right
Jess (27:08):
now And I told a friend recently I just said hey look
You're probably not gonna getrandy and I out of the house to
go do this kind of a thing Thisis stuff we do.
Anyway, I was like I do artevery day.
This is what I do for Myprocessing I said so going to go
do this do art somewhere elseand pay for it doesn't make
sense to me because I have it.
(27:28):
Between Randy and I, we couldprobably put on a class or two.
Yeah.
Randi (27:31):
But I was like, we have all the crafts.
We're the ADHD crafters.
Exactly.
Jess (27:36):
So I just said, the reality is if you want to come
over and hang out, you can, butI'm probably not going to go
anywhere.
Randi (27:41):
Yeah.
I don't want to go spend 200 onthis.
What I can do it in my kitchen,right?
Jess (27:46):
I've already doing art and the art I'm doing is pretty cool
So and that's what I just I justsaid look you're not gonna get
us out of the house You arewelcome to come over.
I was like, I'm happy to haveyou over if you would like to
come over I was like, but I'mprobably not going to leave to
go do something.
Randi (27:59):
Yeah, that doesn't excite me.
No and I different ways that youcan say that with Being genuine
to yourself and still nothurting the other person's
feelings, right?
Jess (28:08):
And I was totally cool.
You can come over and hang out,but I just don't want to go.
Randi (28:11):
Yeah do that.
How do you differentiate thenbetween a feeling of obligation
and Really a genuine feeling ofdesire and wanting to do this
Jess (28:23):
Well, I think you nailed it earlier.
It's the figuring out, if youare dancing around, do I want to
go?
I don't want to go.
Do I want to go?
Do I want, want to go?
You know instantly if you likesomething.
You taste something and you likeit.
You don't go, Oh, I don't knowif I don't like this.
Let me try five more bites.
We immediately are like Why dowe
Randi (28:40):
do that with people?
I don't like them.
Like, why are we like, Oh, Iguess I'll try to hang out with
them like 20 more times and thenthey backstab you.
And you're like, I should havelistened to myself first.
Jess (28:49):
We're ignoring our intuition.
Yes.
Randi (28:56):
Yes.
So we need to not ignore ourintuition.
Jess (28:59):
Exactly.
I have an event that I've beentrying to get into since It's
summer and I've, she's beenstringing me along and the event
is next week.
She's earlier this week.
She goes, Oh, I had, I have anopening finally.
Would you like this booth?
And I was like, Oh yeah, sure.
Have I got a contract yet a weeklater?
Absolutely not.
So you know what?
Randi (29:17):
No, I'm not doing it.
It's stressing you out.
It is
Jess (29:20):
stressing me out.
And so
Randi (29:22):
that's not fair to you either.
And do you want to have thatfeeling again and again, like
going forward?
Jess (29:27):
Well, and the thing is, if she really wanted me like all
these other people, I would haveThey would have already got me.
Yeah, she has no idea what I doand everybody else has already
been like yes I got immediateyeses with the other ones that
I've signed up for a immediatethis one doesn't get it So
Randi (29:42):
you're like, I don't feel like I don't feel wanted Yeah,
and if they don't want like yourproduct there and you know your
presence there then why?
Jess (29:50):
Why waste my time?
So I'm not doing it.
So that's it.
Stop dancing around with thisstuff.
Okay Randi, what are somepractical ways to politely
decline an obligation?
I know we did some role playing,but let's do it again.
Randi (30:02):
Okay, so again, language and communication are powerful
tools.
So phrases like, I appreciateyou thinking of me, but I can't
commit to that.
Jess (30:12):
I like to say however.
I do like however instead of, Iappreciate you thinking of me,
however.
I can't commit to that rightnow, but that still leaves me
like, maybe I can commit later,right?
Yeah, I don't
Randi (30:22):
even know if I like the right now.
I appreciate you thinking of me,
Jess (30:26):
but no.
Well, and sometimes I'll say Iappreciate you thinking of me.
I'm not going to go to this one,but please ask me again in the
future.
Because I'm not saying no to youexactly.
Yeah, maybe if you
Randi (30:37):
are open to doing it, but like just right now it's not
going to work for you.
And like you can't mentally, youdon't have the mental capacity
for that.
That's good.
Yeah, keep asking.
Or I'm focusing on prioritizingmy blank, my health.
My needs.
My family.
My time.
Yeah.
at the moment, and I can'tcommit to that right now.
Randi (2) (31:00):
Don't do right now.
I can't commit to that.
Ooh.
See, that's powerful.
Right there.
Yeah.
I can't commit to that.
Period.
Yeah.
Jess (31:08):
But see, look
Randi (31:09):
at me.
I was even I don't have time forthat.
Just, I don't have time forthat.
Let's just be honest.
And probably the person wouldprobably be like, I probably
shouldn't be doing this either.
My friends are asking me are youhosting a party this year?
Cause I usually do one everyyear and I was just like
Honestly, I said no because likeI am like barely holding it
together like mentally right nowAnd while I do want to spend
(31:30):
time with my friends.
I just don't want to like host Idon't want to prepare.
I don't want to clean likeeverything in my house is like a
disaster.
I'm like so like no No, I don'tknow normally I would feel oh
bad like people are lookingforward to it.
Like I should just do it even ifI You know feel like shit right
now and I was like
Jess (31:47):
no This year just feels too much to do some of this
extra stuff that we've done.
Randi (31:51):
Okay, so how do you maintain your boundaries in your
results?
When it feels just easier tolike, fine, I'll just give in.
I'll just do it.
I'll just go.
Like, how do you?
Randi (2) (32:01):
It's that if you guys have ever bought a piece of
candy for your kids at thecheckout aisle.
Oh my god, I'm so bad aboutthis.
Jess (32:07):
They will ask you every single time for the rest of
their life, no matter what,because you did it once.
So the minute you give in,they're going to do it again and
again and again because you didit once.
And if mom did it once, you didit once.
She might do it again.
Randi (2) (32:22):
Yeah.
Jess (32:22):
But part of it is just remind yourself why you
originally said no or why youdecided to no longer give in to
obligations.
What were you feeling?
Really?
Consider, your long term gainsover these short term gains,
what is it you're really lookingfor?
Is it going to burn you out?
Is it something you don't wantto do?
If you don't want to take onthat project at work because
(32:43):
it's not suiting you for yourfuture goals?
It's just going to be a timesuck.
Then why are you doing this?
Yeah.
Why are we doing things that wedon't want to do anymore?
Randi (32:53):
Yeah, that was like when I was telling you earlier, like
I had a friend who said, Oh,some, my coworker dumped all of
her caseload on me.
And I was like, why?
Why did you allow that?
Because that's not part of yourjob description.
I was like, what is that?
And she's I'm so overwhelmed.
I'm so drained.
And I was like, this isn't yourjob to do their work.
At what point?
Do we say no?
(33:14):
Or do we have to go, to our bossor?
And be like, this isn'tconducive to my working
environment.
I can't get my, work done andgive to, my clients or my cases
if I'm worried about doing extrawork that isn't even assigned to
me.
Yeah.
Jess (33:30):
I love to say, this doesn't suit me.
This no longer works for me.
That's one way I can do it.
Because sometimes This is not
Randi (33:37):
my vibe anymore.
Jess (33:38):
Yeah.
This is not working for meanymore.
I'm, I'm not You know, not thatI'm sorry, because that was
almost coming out of my mouth.
Yeah, don't say sorry.
Don't say sorry.
Randi (33:46):
I know.
Don't say sorry.
Stop saying I'm sorry for stuffyou're not sorry about.
Jess (33:52):
It no longer suits what I want to do in my life.
Yeah.
And that can be for anything.
This no longer suits me.
That no longer fits.
That's it.
It no longer fits.
I just don't have time for it.
I don't have space for it.
I really want everyone to reallylook at why are we saying yes to
things?
We don't want to do Let's allstart saying no and doing what
(34:13):
we want to do I will no longerdo things out of obligation and
that's just period i'm not doingit out of obligation And this is
what true
Randi (34:22):
self care looks like.
Yes, it's not You know goingshopping or a bubble bath or a
massage.
Those are good.
Yeah the good don't get me wrongI love those things You But
finding out what the root of theproblem is at the core and then
making changes.
So your overall life.
And your heart and your soul andyour mind and stuff are better.
(34:43):
That is Radical self care andthat is mental health.
Jess (34:48):
Oh, I like radical self care.
I think I want a shirt that saysthat
Randi (34:51):
yeah, just radical self care period just like total self
care like but like from thebottom up Tearing up the roots,
finding the issue, and thenfocusing on yourself and
learning to, I'm so wild, I'mhitting everything.
She is, she is
Jess (35:05):
knocking everything all over.
Learning
Randi (35:07):
to love yourself enough.
To say no.
To say no and to make thosechanges so that this isn't
dragging you down and this isn'tcausing you, to worry.
This isn't causing you anxiety.
This isn't making you stay inbed.
This isn't causing relationshipissues.
Working on the core of who youare
Jess (35:26):
and honestly if you lose some friends from this then
maybe they really weren'tfriends to begin With and yeah,
peace out.
Randy's like, peace
Randi (35:33):
out because real friends are gonna understand real
friends Appreciate yourboundaries.
I cannot Tell you how much Iappreciate when I say things to
Jess and she goes, oh goodboundary and I'm like Because
she
Jess (35:50):
will still hold me to it.
She's well, I have to i'm like,oh, okay, but i'm not
Randi (35:52):
very good with boundaries either So i'm like, yeah me and
then she's yeah you and I waslike, oh But like for somebody
who's okay, yeah, like Irealized that it's not a
negative.
It's a positive And probablylike I should be you know, like
we're always late and doingstuff all the time.
So we get it but We try to holdeach other like accountable and
(36:13):
it's that makes for a betterfriendship accountability.
That's exactly it
Jess (36:18):
accountability And so I I want to show up and I want to be
genuine and I want to be honestand I want the people in my life
to know that I am there for thembecause I want to, not because I
have to.
I'm a grown ass woman and Idon't have to do anything.
And that's just it.
I don't have to say yes out ofobligations.
No.
Randi (36:36):
No, I'm not doing it.
The feeling of obligation.
Yes.
Yeah, it's just Okay, fine.
I gotta pay my bills, but Well,yeah.
There's That's an obligationthat you've signed up, a
contract that you've signed todo, to pay those bills and spend
that money.
But I'm saying things that are,like, in your control, that we
are just attaching a feeling to.
That's not an obligation.
We are That's guilt.
(36:57):
perceiving it, yeah, as anobligation.
And Again, self compassion.
Remember, it takes time tochange these things.
It's not going to happen likethat.
You have to see the patterns.
You have to have, selfActualization about it and you
have to practice this.
Jess (37:14):
I think I want everybody out there Who's listening to say
no to something in the next twoweeks that you don't want to do
in the next week Okay.
Well, I was gonna give him twoweeks now because okay fine in
the next week you
Randi (37:26):
got five
Jess (37:26):
days in the next week I want all of y'all to say no to
something that you really don'twant to do that You know you
you're doing out of guilt And soright there, just say, no, thank
you.
Randi (37:38):
Yeah.
And we want to hear about it.
Let us know how you are learningto break free from the pressures
of these feelings of obligationsin your own life.
And if you have found thisepisode helpful, please share it
with a friend, leave us areview, and don't forget to
subscribe and follow us for moreconversations about women's
mental health, self care, andhow to live a life that feels
(38:01):
authentic and empowering.
Jess (38:03):
Ooh.
Authentic and empowering.
Bye! Boom.
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
(00:02):
I'm randy.
I'm And I'm Jess.
And we are two licensedpsychotherapists, and this is a
safe space where we talk aboutmental health, well being, and
strategies for coping withlife's challenges.
And how all of this is normal,and you are not alone.
Today we're talking about apowerful topic that can be life
changing for women deciding tostop doing things out of
obligation.
(00:22):
This is something many womenstruggle with, whether it's in a
relationship, at work, or evenwithin their families.
It can have a huge impact onmental health and well being.
Jess (00:32):
Exactly.
I have decided I will no longerdo things out of obligation.
That is just right there.
Look at me.
I'm like powerful.
Yeah.
I'm not
Randi (2) (00:42):
going to do it anymore.
We're going to put our footdown.
Jess (00:44):
To
Randi (2) (00:45):
say
Jess (00:45):
no.
I'm going to be my innertoddler.
Okay.
Find us and more information onwomensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
Randi (00:52):
So have you ever had these thoughts?
Jess (00:54):
Why is it so important to stop doing things out of
obligation?
Randi (00:58):
How do I start setting boundaries without feeling
guilty?
Jess (01:01):
Can I say no to obligations and can it improve
my relationship?
Randi (01:06):
What if saying no leads to conflict or
misunderstandings?
Mm hmm.
Jess (01:11):
How do I deal with the fear of missing out, FOMO?
Which, by the way, we did apodcast on that, FOMO vs.
Randi (01:18):
JOMO.
Anyways, okay, that's why we'retalking about this.
Yeah.
What if my choices upset peoplethat I care about?
Randi (2) (01:26):
How do I differentiate
Jess (01:27):
between obligation and genuine desire?
That's a good one.
Randi (01:30):
Is it possible to find a balance between being
accommodating and maintaining myown personal boundaries?
Jess (01:38):
What are
Randi (2) (01:39):
some practical ways to
Jess (01:40):
politely decline an obligation?
And I think that one we shouldprobably role play that a little
bit, because that's a good oneto say no thank you or without
giving too much or any excuses.
Randi (01:50):
So how do I maintain my boundaries?
And my resolve when it feelseasier just to give in.
Mm hmm.
How do we define an obligation?
Jess (02:01):
For me, when I say we do things out of obligation, what
we're talking about is makingchoices or saying yes to things,
not because we generally wantto, but because we feel like we
should, or that we have to.
Remember the shoulds and thehaves and the couldas and
wouldas.
Randi (02:18):
I feel like kind of an obligation, like the definition
has gotten Smudged because itused to be like something that
you have to do that is going toimpact your livelihood or You
have to do it.
Yeah, your life.
Jess (02:32):
We do it to avoid guilt most of the time.
We do it because we're trying tomeet somebody else's
expectations or we're trying tomaintain some status quo.
And so it's not because it'sgoing to impact our life.
I think obligations now are moreso based upon feelings.
We're doing it to try to avoidsomething.
No! We're not.
Randi (02:50):
obligated.
We feel obligated.
Yes.
So it's just that we're feelingthis guilt or this shame we're
attaching an emotion to thisevent.
It's not a necessity.
But we feel maybe like it is
Jess (03:07):
well, because most of us are people pleasers.
And so we're trying to makeother people happy so we're not
maintaining our boundaries bydoing this.
The problem is that when we livewith this obligation mode, it
really leads to us gettingresentment and burnt out and
really not feeling fulfilledbecause we're doing stuff for
other people or that we thinkother people think we should be
(03:30):
doing.
Do and doesn't that getconfusing that we think that
other people think we should bedoing it so that we do it, but
we don't really know.
Randi (03:37):
Yeah, because we've we're not actually communicating or
asking them maybe that's wherewe need to start is saying.
Is this really important to you?
Oh.
Is this going to affect ourfriendship if I don't show up?
Or is this going to affect myposition at work really, what is
the bottom line here?
I think that we just like tiptoearound this.
(03:58):
I know, but what if they said,yeah, and you're like, I
Jess (03:59):
still don't want to do it.
Randi (04:00):
At least then you know you tried.
Jess (04:02):
So okay, let's go through and let's talk about where did
these feelings of obligationcome from?
Randi (04:07):
For many women, I feel it's rooted in social
conditioning.
It's how like society hasbrought us up.
We, like you said, are taught tobe people pleasers from a young
age, whether it's in ourfamilies, our schools.
Oh, go hug Uncle Creepy
Randi (2) (04:22):
Joe.
Randi (04:22):
Yeah, no.
We learn to attach.
Gratification with these thingsokay, that made, my mom or my
teacher happy because I did whatthey asked of me, even if I
didn't like doing it, or it mademe feel
Jess (04:38):
awkward.
Is that gratification, or isthat like, how, what's the word
I'm thinking of, Randi?
Here, let me see if I can get mybrain to you.
It's like
Randi (04:45):
reward.
Yeah.
Rewarded.
Because,
Jess (04:48):
exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah,
Randi (04:49):
I, I think that we learn to think that it's gratifying,
but we're like associating itlike Pavlov's dog, right?
Like he associated whatever, thebell with the tree.
We learn to think that maybethis is how it's perceived to
be, but in reality, it's not,and it's not really fulfilling
(05:09):
and gratifying, it's not.
Making our hearts happy.
Jess (05:13):
Well, that's because we also learned from a young age
that saying no is selfish you'rebeing difficult.
You're being selfish or you'reUngrateful if you say no, I
don't want to do that.
Well, why because you'reungrateful And so it gets
reinforced in our familydynamics.
It gets reinforced at school andwork culture.
(05:34):
If you say no to the project,you're no longer a team player,
even though you're like, that'sa shitty project.
And I don't want that project.
But then that's what happens ifyou say no or put boundaries on
it.
And that is, I think what thiscurrent generation or this
current timeframe that we're inis trying to change.
Randi (05:50):
Yeah.
Is that
Jess (05:50):
we're not doing that anymore.
Randi (05:52):
Yeah.
And also I feel like how women,we've talked about this, time
and time again are the kinkeepers, we're the nurturers,
we're the accommodating, we'resupposed to make sacrifices.
Well, that's not fair.
We're not the only ones in thisequation.
It doesn't always need to fallon us to be the ones that are
cutting into our personal timeor our sanity, or our well
(06:14):
being.
Jess (06:15):
So I announced to my family this year, there's four
of us.
And I just said, you know what?
This year we all get to dosomebody else's stocking.
I'm no longer doing all thestockings.
I said, I'm going to do oneperson.
One person can do mine.
I said, and tell you what boys,you can do each other's.
And us girls will do eachother's this year.
And next year, maybe we'll picknames.
My daughter goes, You know thatthey're not gonna do one.
I said cool.
(06:35):
Well, i'm not gonna worry aboutit Then they don't get it.
That's up to them We'll put alimit on it for financial
reasons.
And this is what you spend onthe person stalking And there
you go
Randi (06:44):
I did a similar thing this past week with our meal
planning I was like Everybodygets, because there's now three
adults, I have an adultdaughter, and I was like
everybody gets to participate.
Either you have to make a meal,or you have to order the meal.
One day you can pick to order.
there's three of us that areadults and one child, so I was
(07:06):
like, that's six days.
And then one day of the week, wedo like a family.
Either we all pick or we allcook together.
Jess (07:12):
Or we just do a fin for yourself and you guys figure out
whatever leftovers are stilledible.
Randi (07:16):
I'm so tired of us all being like, what's for dinner?
And everybody's bitching at eachother after we're all done.
Tired and hungry and not cominghome from work.
And I was like, no, so everybodyneeds.
To pick a day.
That's your day.
Okay, cool.
Bye.
Yeah, I'm
Jess (07:30):
done doing it.
Yeah, and so because What you'retalking about this burnout,
right?
Because when we do things out ofobligation, you know If you feel
you have to make dinner everynight because you're the woman
we are going to get burnt outI'm already burnt out.
You're burnt out half the
Randi (07:46):
world is
Jess (07:46):
burnt
Randi (07:47):
out.
Jess (07:47):
I
Randi (07:47):
feel like I'm seeing so many things about women being
mentally just drained and justphysically
Jess (07:53):
and emotionally like I
Randi (07:55):
can't do everything done with everything like I saw a mom
crying on TikTok the other dayhow am I supposed to do all this
stuff like go to work pick themup from school take them to
school do this meal prep likebuy all the things do all the
things and people are likeyou're not but like We don't
have a village like, we used towe don't have a community.
We don't have family that livesnearby We don't have anybody to
(08:17):
help us.
So we're all collectively
Jess (08:20):
drowning.
Mm hmm Well, and you're talkingabout dinner last night the
teenager made dinner for herselfthe young adult made dinner for
himself He ate leftovers fromthe night before and then so dad
and I were left so I ordered usdinner and the kids are like You
didn't order us anything.
I was like, no, y'all alreadyate dinner and didn't offer us
anything.
So we ate our, we, yeah, weordered dinner
Randi (08:39):
and stopped feeling like bad about it.
I didn't, I didn't feel bad atall.
Like I did that the other daytoo and my partner's like you're
not ordering the kids anythingAnd I was like no because I
asked them 20 times what do youwant?
Nobody gave him any answer and Iwas like too bad.
So sad.
I ordered what I want.
Jess (08:55):
Yeah We ordered by dinner.
I said, hey, I ordered dinnerand he was like cool.
Did you order the kids?
I said, nope, they already atehe was like they ate what they
eat I was like, I don't know butthey ate not worried about it.
They're alive.
It's cool So think aboutobligations when we're talking
about things that we feelobligated for for me It brings
up either A, a lot ofresentment.
I resent that I have to do thisor that I agreed to do this
(09:15):
because I didn't want to dothis, which to me says I should
have had a better boundary.
Or the other thing is it makesme so anxious.
We've talked about doing thecookie party this year.
I probably won't do it becauseI'm too busy and it makes me so
anxious to have everybody overmy house to make cookies.
Randi (09:30):
Yeah.
Jess (09:30):
And I think about that.
Yeah.
Randi (09:32):
And I'm like, I don't even know.
If it's thinking, if it's makingyou feel.
That level of anxiety already.
Right now?
Yeah.
I'm not doing it.
Like, why?
Maybe you're just like, hey, Ijust want to have my friends
over in sweats and two people.
I might just
Jess (09:44):
be like, mm, no, I don't even want to do that.
Randi (09:46):
Sorry.
Yeah.
You don't need to make any plansif you don't want to, and I feel
that's like where I'm at, too.
Yeah.
Is this really, it's been a funkthe other day and my friend's
oh, come take you out and go.
And I was like, that event islike so busy and there's so many
people there and I was like, Idon't think that would make me
feel better.
I was like, nah, I was like,that's something you want to do.
(10:08):
But
Jess (10:08):
normally you would have said yes.
Yeah, you would have feltobligated and said yes.
And so now you're like, no,that's not what I want to do.
I think i'm going to stay in mysweats or be in my funk or go
get coffee.
And that might be something Iwant to do.
And so it's different, right?
Because It affects our selfesteem when we always feel
obligated and we're not gettingthe rewards.
I teach my kid this, is that ifyou aren't getting something
(10:30):
from the friendship, then whyare you giving so much?
And this is the same thoughtprocess.
Randi (10:35):
Well, because then I feel like we also internalize that,
especially as women andteenagers and young adult women,
like I'm giving to thisrelationship or this friendship
and I'm not getting anythingback.
What's wrong with me?
The scope back on ourself, thenthat doesn't usually have
anything to do with it.
No,
Jess (10:53):
there's nothing wrong with you.
What's wrong is you keep givingto people who keep taking and
they're not giving anything inreturn.
Randi (10:58):
And you're not holding up your boundaries that, maybe like
this relationship, maybe there'ssome red flags there that you're
ignoring, but we've all beenthere and done that.
Jess (11:07):
Randy loves to ignore red flags because she thinks
everybody's a nice person atheart.
So she ignores all the red flagsand she sees all the good in the
people.
And meanwhile, I'm in the cornergoing, why, why do you like her?
I don't get it.
No, I don't want to do that.
I don't want to do that.
No, no, no.
I don't want to do
Randi (11:22):
that.
She's I don't know about thisperson.
And I'm like, I know and I'mjust like, I just feel bad.
Cause I know what it feels like.
And then that's an
Jess (11:30):
obligation right there.
She feels obligated because sheknows what it feels like.
So that's exactly what that is.
So let's stops.
Saying yes and start saying no.
I will no longer be obligated todo things that I don't want to
do anymore
Randi (11:44):
Yeah, say it again.
Just say right now say it outloud.
I will no longer Feel obligatedto do things that I don't want
to do anymore.
Yeah, just period it feels sogood
Jess (11:57):
isn't it
Randi (11:57):
feel good?
Randi (2) (11:58):
It feels so good
Jess (12:01):
Let's talk about How the pressure, how do we deal with
the pressure to feel when wefeel obligated to do something
when somebody says, we havesomeone that keeps asking us to
do stuff and Randy and I arekind of like, I don't know, I
don't want to do that.
And I'm like, No, I don't wantto do that.
I don't know.
And then Randy was like, I don'tknow what my calendar is.
(12:23):
I haven't gotten that togetheryet.
And I was like, Oh, that'sfunny, Randy.
But she still left it out there.
I was like, Yeah, I'm busy.
I have something I'm doing thatday.
Randi (12:32):
So that's also a solution, but what are some
real, like solid solutions thatwe can do to make the choice if
we are feeling so overwhelmed,so burnt out, so drained, so
tired.
To start working theseboundaries with people.
Jess (12:48):
Well, you just said it it is set healthy boundaries And I
know we're always sayingboundaries boundaries and
boundaries But set healthyboundaries
Randi (12:57):
because not just for the big things I think for the small
things too.
Yeah, because it's all thoselittle tiny things that I feel
like can add up
Jess (13:08):
it's setting those healthy boundaries and those little
things do add up because whenyou can identify what situation
you do or don't want to do, wego, Oh, it's only a few minutes.
One, we underestimate our time.
It'll only take an hour.
No, dude, that's like a two orthree hour event.
Randi (13:23):
That's so true.
Because even they say like, Whenwe pause in a workday to look at
our emails, to get back intowhat we were doing, it takes
about 26 minutes.
So that one minute detour endsup taking almost like 30 minutes
total.
Jess (13:38):
And that's not the thought process that you're putting into
it.
That's, that is just thephysical.
Yeah,
Randi (13:43):
the emotional and the mental drain of should I do
this?
Should I not do this?
If you're even like Questioningif you're not 100% yeah should
you even be doing it?
Jess (13:54):
Yeah,
Randi (13:54):
if
Jess (13:54):
it's not instantly yes.
Then it really should just belike, yeah, I don't want to do
that.
That's not going to work for me.
we'll do some role plays here aswe do our have you evers.
I want you guys to learn toreframe your mindset because if
you feel guilty saying no, Iwant you to figure out why do
you feel guilty saying no, wheredoes that come from?
Yeah.
There's a
Randi (14:13):
root of an issue there of something maybe in your
childhood or a relationship thatyou said no.
And it was.
Almost like traumatic or yougot, pushback from it that you
felt for me I can remember avery pivotal point I was in
kindergarten and I loved mykindergarten teacher so much
Like he used to come over andhave family dinners with us.
(14:34):
Okay, this is in the 80s.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay I just made her okay.
It's not normal now, but And I,just loved him, felt like safe
place, like such an amazing partof my life.
And then I was talking in classand I got in trouble for talking
in class.
And I felt so crestfallen andlike upset that I had
(14:55):
disappointed him.
That I never talked in classever again.
And that's what's for the restof my school.
So it was like that, like thatcrushing feeling of, Oh my God,
like I'm in trouble and Idisappointed this person.
And then I was like, neverwanted to raise my hand in
class.
I never talked, like I turnedeverything like inward
Jess (15:15):
yeah.
And that's not fair to you.
And if you had shared that withsomebody, I'm sure some, well,
maybe not then, now, now they'llwalk you through it and be like,
you don't have to own that andwe'll talk to you about it.
Back then.
They probably were like, yeah,you shouldn't have been talking.
The eighties weren't very kindto us.
Randi (2) (15:30):
Sorry guys.
Okay.
Randi (15:32):
But that brings in also practicing that self compassion.
So when this stuff does happenor you do get pushback from,
inserting your boundaries andsaying no to things.
that, aren't good for you, thatyou don't lose who you are.
You don't lose your sense ofself over it.
Jess (15:49):
Exactly.
We all deserve to live a lifethat aligns with what we want to
do and what our values are.
Not one that's directed by theseexternal expectations and
obligations and pressures.
I would love to live a life, andI'm moving forward doing so,
doing what I want to do.
Not what somebody I should do orwhat they think they want me or
(16:11):
I think they want me to do.
I'm doing what I want to do.
And unfortunately I wish I hadlearned this 30 years ago and at
a younger age.
So I'm hoping I'm teaching mydaughter that who knows.
Randi (16:23):
Yeah.
It was interesting because I sawanother video too, the other day
about this girl talking abouthow she was working for multiple
companies, like work from home.
And she's we're stacking thismoney.
Like we're doing this.
We don't, we don't owe anybodyan obligation.
She was like.
If I want to work for fivecompanies at once, I'm going to
work for five companies at once.
She was like, I'm getting mywork done.
(16:43):
I think that's
Jess (16:45):
slightly illegal.
I actually think that you,that's a, there's something in
me that says that, that you'renot supposed to do that.
Now, when I say not supposed to,I really want to be like, I
don't know, maybe with theethics.
It might.
I guess if they don't have thesame hours, it doesn't really
matter.
If it's just a whenever thing, Iguess it doesn't matter.
Randi (17:04):
I don't know what ethically maybe not I think it
would depend if you had signed,some kind of NDA or Yeah,
disclosure, like statement orsomething.
Or oh,
Jess (17:13):
those, I don't know.
Those aren't even, honestly,those, those disclosures you
signed, they're not even legal.
Even in like California, they'renot legal.
They don't really hold up.
No, they don't hold up fornothing.
But yeah,
Randi (17:22):
so I don't know.
I was just saying like herattitude about being like, I'm
not obligated to do this or toconform to this idea, like I'm
just.
Doing it because I want to.
And I was like, okay, I likethat.
I do like it.
Do what you want, what makes youhappy.
Okay, let's answer our, have youever questions?
(17:42):
Okay, so what is.
Why is it important to stopdoing things out of this feeling
of obligation?
Jess (17:51):
One, because feeling, the feeling of obligation is
bullshit.
But because it doesn't alignwith my values or it doesn't
make me feel good.
It doesn't, it's not authentic.
I don't want to be unauthenticanymore.
I want to do what I want to do.
Randi (18:07):
I think that too, if I'm saying yes to something and I
don't really want to be there isthat really beneficial, not only
to me, but to that person orfriend?
Aren't they going to feel that Idon't want to be there?
Like, why?
If it's not, fulfilling on bothends.
Jess (18:23):
Exactly.
If, I keep telling you, ifyou're not getting something out
of it, or if I'm not gettingsomething out of it, then why do
I keep doing it?
It's like going down the one wayroad when there's nothing there.
Why do we keep going down theone way road?
It still hasn't, given usanything in return, but we keep
going down it hoping it'schanged.
Randi (18:39):
Yeah.
Jess (18:40):
Which, that's an obligation.
So Randi, how do I start settingboundaries without feeling
guilty?
Oh, good one.
Randi (18:46):
Start very small, work your, if you're anxious about
setting boundaries, especiallywith people that you know will
maybe like Push back or gonnaget like emotional about it and
be kind to yourself.
Have that self compassion thatyou are learning to set
boundaries.
You are learning to step backand that's okay if you stumble
(19:07):
or if you give in, you can stillreset, you have that option to
reset that boundary again andagain and again and again, if
you need to.
Jess (19:15):
And remember, you are not responsible for somebody else's
response to your boundary.
Unless you are being an a hole,then okay, fine, maybe.
But if you're gonna say no, thatdoesn't suit me, I don't, I
don't feel like doing that, I'mnot available, whatever it is,
If they get upset, that is onthem.
(19:35):
They're adults and they have tolearn to work through that.
You are not there to workthrough their emotions.
You are putting your boundaryout there and they may not like
it.
Yeah.
You're not there to
Randi (19:45):
carry their emotions.
We have enough of our ownemotions that we carry.
Yeah.
And that we can hardly deal withourselves, let alone carrying
the burden of somebody else'semotions.
So can saying no.
Help your relationships.
Jess (20:01):
Yes, if it is a genuine relationship It will flourish
when we show up as our trueshell shelves true to shell
shelves to shelf You can't saythey're true selves Saying no
Really allows me to be genuinewhen I say yes
Randi (2) (20:21):
And so
Jess (20:22):
right there, you know that if I'm showing up I'm showing up
because I want to show up notbecause I feel like I
Randi (20:29):
have to and you're there you're present Yes, because you
want to be there.
You want to be immersed inexperience.
You want to be supportiveThere's not other stuff that's
like you're worried about orthat's dragging you down or
you're stressed about or you'renot a lot of times to we say yes
to stuff and we can't afford it.
Oh, yeah, that calls causes afinancial drain, not only our
(20:49):
physical.
Finances, but our well being aswell because then we're like, oh
my god, like this is going toimpact I'm not going to be able
to pay this bill or this bill orthis bill I'm gonna have to
shift this stuff and it's likehow can you be present in that
situation if it's that drainingon you?
Jess (21:02):
Well, and the other thing too is think about time.
My time is so valuable that Ican't we have this stupid
concept of let me carve outtime.
Let me make time.
Let me set aside time.
I can't make time.
I
Randi (21:15):
can't carve time.
It's not a pumpkin.
Am I Harry Potter?
Can I right?
Bibbidi Bobbidi Boo sometime?
I wish I could.
If I could,
Jess (21:22):
I would be so dang rich because I don't need money.
I need time.
Yeah, I need money, but I need Ireally need time.
But I think that was
Randi (21:30):
part of what was good for me is having that mindset shift
that For me, time is valuable.
Time is important.
I only have a certain amount oftime in the day, and I need to
make sure that I allot itcorrectly for my mental health
and my family and my well being.
And also, to me, time is money.
Jess (21:51):
I was just going to say, and you know what I do a lot of
times is I say, okay, this iswhat I make an hour.
Yep.
Is it worth an hour of my time?
Yeah.
Am I willing to give an hour ofwork For this item for this
adventure for whatever andsometimes i'm like no sometimes
i'm like, yep Totally i'll justwork an extra hour if I really
want it that bad or i'll workthis or that because I want it
(22:14):
Or I feel it's worthy.
And so That is yeah time or can
Randi (22:18):
my time be spent?
Yeah better doing this.
See can my time be spent?
Yeah,
Jess (22:23):
it's all wrapped up.
It is all wrapped up there.
What if saying no leads toconflicts or misunderstandings
randy because you know it alwayswill What if?
How about when?
When?
Randi (22:33):
When?
Well, conflict doesn'tnecessarily need to mean
something negative.
Like it doesn't always have tobe bad.
Growth can happen from conflict.
Conversation and communicationcan come from conflict.
What if?
Sometimes we need conflict toget out of, yeah, to grow and
get out of a rut or maybe like aspace that we're in.
(22:54):
When you are met withresistance, then you can again,
Reassert your boundaries.
Communicate your needs, yourwants, your feelings.
talk about what yourexpectations are with this
person.
Well, what is your expectationof this situation?
And this is my expectation.
And maybe how can we meet in themiddle because of this?
(23:14):
Having honest conversation canreally help alleviate
misunderstandings.
Jess (23:20):
I found that in our house recently, I was trying so hard
not to not be myself, but toparent different with an oldest
Randi (23:28):
that
Jess (23:28):
I finally just said, I can't do this.
This is not me.
This is not genuine.
This is my house.
I'm going to go back to doingwhat I know.
And that's it.
I can't change.
I don't change.
Want to change in my house thatway, because it's not genuine
for me to be this way.
Randi (2) (23:43):
And
Jess (23:43):
once I did that, the house kind of went back into, Oh,
okay.
Now we know what theexpectations are and the whole
house just shifted.
And it was like, Oh, if I hadjust been genuine with my
thoughts and feelings in thevery beginning.
Yeah.
About the situation, it wouldhave been probably a hell of a
lot different.
Randi (23:58):
Yeah.
I think sometimes we putexpectations on ourselves that
we should be acting a certainway or we've read something and
we think we need to apply thesethings.
And then you're almost trying tolike force this, this
relationship or this way to goabout things and then you're
like, why is this not working?
Jess (24:14):
Yeah.
This is so hard.
My grandma always said, the pathis that hard.
You're on the wrong path.
Yes, it's not going to be easy,but if you feel like you're just
continually hitting your headagainst the wall obviously
there's no door there, so youneed to find a different way to
go.
All right, so what do I do if Ihave FOMO, which is fear of
(24:35):
missing out?
I
Randi (24:37):
have to say, you have to tell yourself again, a mindset
shift.
Quality, not quantity.
You don't have to do everything.
You don't have to be everywhere.
You don't have to be everybody'sfriend.
You don't have to be doing allthe things all the time and burn
yourself out anymore.
Trust in yourself.
to find the things that bringyou joy, bring you connection
(24:58):
and make your life better sothat you're not spreading
yourself thin.
You have to, again, go back tokind of like the root, like what
is triggering you to feelpanicked that you're going to
miss out on something and reallythink about it.
Are you really going to miss outon something?
What do you think that you aregoing to miss out on?
Jess (25:18):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Cause half the time you getthere and you're like, well,
that sucked.
I didn't miss out on
Randi (25:22):
anything.
Exactly.
Like, why did I even bother?
Right?
Now, what if these choices,again, this kind of aligns with
conflict and misunderstanding,but what if the person really is
upset about this decision thatyou've made?
Jess (25:34):
I think it's really natural to worry about other
people's feelings.
We really don't want to hurtfeelings.
we grew up going, you hurt theirfeelings, say, sorry.
How many people have told theirchild, you hurt my feelings?
But is it genuine when you saysorry?
No, it's not because you'remaking them do it, but you're
not responsible for theirhappiness.
You're responsible for yourhappiness.
(25:55):
And so you want people who aregoing to truly understand and
support you now There are waysto say it with people when we
were talking about kind of roleplaying some of the things I
like to say is unfortunatelythat doesn't work for me And if
people say why not you don'thave to give them a reason you
say it just doesn't
Randi (2) (26:12):
yeah
Jess (26:12):
I find the more excuses you give people, the more that
they can grab onto to change it.
And
Randi (26:20):
then
Jess (26:20):
they can make it, you're just giving them more to like
hook on.
Yeah.
So it's, I'm sorry, that doesn'twork for me.
Unfortunately, I'm not going tobe able to do that.
Why not?
I'm just not.
You don't have to tell them.
You can straight up to say, I'mnot going to be able to go.
I'm not going.
You can do that.
But most of us feel weird doingthat.
So I do like to say, it's likesaying, sorry, I'm late.
(26:43):
It's thank you for waiting forme.
Thank you for your patiencewhile I got back to you or while
I was running late.
It's a different mindset whenyou say that.
I
Randi (26:51):
think it's, yeah.
And like the tone and the wayyou're saying it, I feel it's
just like a polite way ofsaying, no, I'm not fucking
going.
Jess (26:59):
And you can say, Yeah, that's not my thing.
That's another one.
That's not my thing.
Randi (27:04):
That's not my thing And we we had a I don't have time
for that No right
Jess (27:08):
now And I told a friend recently I just said hey look
You're probably not gonna getrandy and I out of the house to
go do this kind of a thing Thisis stuff we do.
Anyway, I was like I do artevery day.
This is what I do for Myprocessing I said so going to go
do this do art somewhere elseand pay for it doesn't make
sense to me because I have it.
(27:28):
Between Randy and I, we couldprobably put on a class or two.
Yeah.
Randi (27:31):
But I was like, we have all the crafts.
We're the ADHD crafters.
Exactly.
Jess (27:36):
So I just said, the reality is if you want to come
over and hang out, you can, butI'm probably not going to go
anywhere.
Randi (27:41):
Yeah.
I don't want to go spend 200 onthis.
What I can do it in my kitchen,right?
Jess (27:46):
I've already doing art and the art I'm doing is pretty cool
So and that's what I just I justsaid look you're not gonna get
us out of the house You arewelcome to come over.
I was like, I'm happy to haveyou over if you would like to
come over I was like, but I'mprobably not going to leave to
go do something.
Randi (27:59):
Yeah, that doesn't excite me.
No and I different ways that youcan say that with Being genuine
to yourself and still nothurting the other person's
feelings, right?
Jess (28:08):
And I was totally cool.
You can come over and hang out,but I just don't want to go.
Randi (28:11):
Yeah do that.
How do you differentiate thenbetween a feeling of obligation
and Really a genuine feeling ofdesire and wanting to do this
Jess (28:23):
Well, I think you nailed it earlier.
It's the figuring out, if youare dancing around, do I want to
go?
I don't want to go.
Do I want to go?
Do I want, want to go?
You know instantly if you likesomething.
You taste something and you likeit.
You don't go, Oh, I don't knowif I don't like this.
Let me try five more bites.
We immediately are like Why dowe
Randi (28:40):
do that with people?
I don't like them.
Like, why are we like, Oh, Iguess I'll try to hang out with
them like 20 more times and thenthey backstab you.
And you're like, I should havelistened to myself first.
Jess (28:49):
We're ignoring our intuition.
Yes.
Randi (28:56):
Yes.
So we need to not ignore ourintuition.
Jess (28:59):
Exactly.
I have an event that I've beentrying to get into since It's
summer and I've, she's beenstringing me along and the event
is next week.
She's earlier this week.
She goes, Oh, I had, I have anopening finally.
Would you like this booth?
And I was like, Oh yeah, sure.
Have I got a contract yet a weeklater?
Absolutely not.
So you know what?
Randi (29:17):
No, I'm not doing it.
It's stressing you out.
It is
Jess (29:20):
stressing me out.
And so
Randi (29:22):
that's not fair to you either.
And do you want to have thatfeeling again and again, like
going forward?
Jess (29:27):
Well, and the thing is, if she really wanted me like all
these other people, I would haveThey would have already got me.
Yeah, she has no idea what I doand everybody else has already
been like yes I got immediateyeses with the other ones that
I've signed up for a immediatethis one doesn't get it So
Randi (29:42):
you're like, I don't feel like I don't feel wanted Yeah,
and if they don't want like yourproduct there and you know your
presence there then why?
Jess (29:50):
Why waste my time?
So I'm not doing it.
So that's it.
Stop dancing around with thisstuff.
Okay Randi, what are somepractical ways to politely
decline an obligation?
I know we did some role playing,but let's do it again.
Randi (30:02):
Okay, so again, language and communication are powerful
tools.
So phrases like, I appreciateyou thinking of me, but I can't
commit to that.
Jess (30:12):
I like to say however.
I do like however instead of, Iappreciate you thinking of me,
however.
I can't commit to that rightnow, but that still leaves me
like, maybe I can commit later,right?
Yeah, I don't
Randi (30:22):
even know if I like the right now.
I appreciate you thinking of me,
Jess (30:26):
but no.
Well, and sometimes I'll say Iappreciate you thinking of me.
I'm not going to go to this one,but please ask me again in the
future.
Because I'm not saying no to youexactly.
Yeah, maybe if you
Randi (30:37):
are open to doing it, but like just right now it's not
going to work for you.
And like you can't mentally, youdon't have the mental capacity
for that.
That's good.
Yeah, keep asking.
Or I'm focusing on prioritizingmy blank, my health.
My needs.
My family.
My time.
Yeah.
at the moment, and I can'tcommit to that right now.
Randi (2) (31:00):
Don't do right now.
I can't commit to that.
Ooh.
See, that's powerful.
Right there.
Yeah.
I can't commit to that.
Period.
Yeah.
Jess (31:08):
But see, look
Randi (31:09):
at me.
I was even I don't have time forthat.
Just, I don't have time forthat.
Let's just be honest.
And probably the person wouldprobably be like, I probably
shouldn't be doing this either.
My friends are asking me are youhosting a party this year?
Cause I usually do one everyyear and I was just like
Honestly, I said no because likeI am like barely holding it
together like mentally right nowAnd while I do want to spend
(31:30):
time with my friends.
I just don't want to like host Idon't want to prepare.
I don't want to clean likeeverything in my house is like a
disaster.
I'm like so like no No, I don'tknow normally I would feel oh
bad like people are lookingforward to it.
Like I should just do it even ifI You know feel like shit right
now and I was like
Jess (31:47):
no This year just feels too much to do some of this
extra stuff that we've done.
Randi (31:51):
Okay, so how do you maintain your boundaries in your
results?
When it feels just easier tolike, fine, I'll just give in.
I'll just do it.
I'll just go.
Like, how do you?
Randi (2) (32:01):
It's that if you guys have ever bought a piece of
candy for your kids at thecheckout aisle.
Oh my god, I'm so bad aboutthis.
Jess (32:07):
They will ask you every single time for the rest of
their life, no matter what,because you did it once.
So the minute you give in,they're going to do it again and
again and again because you didit once.
And if mom did it once, you didit once.
She might do it again.
Randi (2) (32:22):
Yeah.
Jess (32:22):
But part of it is just remind yourself why you
originally said no or why youdecided to no longer give in to
obligations.
What were you feeling?
Really?
Consider, your long term gainsover these short term gains,
what is it you're really lookingfor?
Is it going to burn you out?
Is it something you don't wantto do?
If you don't want to take onthat project at work because
(32:43):
it's not suiting you for yourfuture goals?
It's just going to be a timesuck.
Then why are you doing this?
Yeah.
Why are we doing things that wedon't want to do anymore?
Randi (32:53):
Yeah, that was like when I was telling you earlier, like
I had a friend who said, Oh,some, my coworker dumped all of
her caseload on me.
And I was like, why?
Why did you allow that?
Because that's not part of yourjob description.
I was like, what is that?
And she's I'm so overwhelmed.
I'm so drained.
And I was like, this isn't yourjob to do their work.
At what point?
Do we say no?
(33:14):
Or do we have to go, to our bossor?
And be like, this isn'tconducive to my working
environment.
I can't get my, work done andgive to, my clients or my cases
if I'm worried about doing extrawork that isn't even assigned to
me.
Yeah.
Jess (33:30):
I love to say, this doesn't suit me.
This no longer works for me.
That's one way I can do it.
Because sometimes This is not
Randi (33:37):
my vibe anymore.
Jess (33:38):
Yeah.
This is not working for meanymore.
I'm, I'm not You know, not thatI'm sorry, because that was
almost coming out of my mouth.
Yeah, don't say sorry.
Don't say sorry.
Randi (33:46):
I know.
Don't say sorry.
Stop saying I'm sorry for stuffyou're not sorry about.
Jess (33:52):
It no longer suits what I want to do in my life.
Yeah.
And that can be for anything.
This no longer suits me.
That no longer fits.
That's it.
It no longer fits.
I just don't have time for it.
I don't have space for it.
I really want everyone to reallylook at why are we saying yes to
things?
We don't want to do Let's allstart saying no and doing what
(34:13):
we want to do I will no longerdo things out of obligation and
that's just period i'm not doingit out of obligation And this is
what true
Randi (34:22):
self care looks like.
Yes, it's not You know goingshopping or a bubble bath or a
massage.
Those are good.
Yeah the good don't get me wrongI love those things You But
finding out what the root of theproblem is at the core and then
making changes.
So your overall life.
And your heart and your soul andyour mind and stuff are better.
(34:43):
That is Radical self care andthat is mental health.
Jess (34:48):
Oh, I like radical self care.
I think I want a shirt that saysthat
Randi (34:51):
yeah, just radical self care period just like total self
care like but like from thebottom up Tearing up the roots,
finding the issue, and thenfocusing on yourself and
learning to, I'm so wild, I'mhitting everything.
She is, she is
Jess (35:05):
knocking everything all over.
Learning
Randi (35:07):
to love yourself enough.
To say no.
To say no and to make thosechanges so that this isn't
dragging you down and this isn'tcausing you, to worry.
This isn't causing you anxiety.
This isn't making you stay inbed.
This isn't causing relationshipissues.
Working on the core of who youare
Jess (35:26):
and honestly if you lose some friends from this then
maybe they really weren'tfriends to begin With and yeah,
peace out.
Randy's like, peace
Randi (35:33):
out because real friends are gonna understand real
friends Appreciate yourboundaries.
I cannot Tell you how much Iappreciate when I say things to
Jess and she goes, oh goodboundary and I'm like Because
she
Jess (35:50):
will still hold me to it.
She's well, I have to i'm like,oh, okay, but i'm not
Randi (35:52):
very good with boundaries either So i'm like, yeah me and
then she's yeah you and I waslike, oh But like for somebody
who's okay, yeah, like Irealized that it's not a
negative.
It's a positive And probablylike I should be you know, like
we're always late and doingstuff all the time.
So we get it but We try to holdeach other like accountable and
(36:13):
it's that makes for a betterfriendship accountability.
That's exactly it
Jess (36:18):
accountability And so I I want to show up and I want to be
genuine and I want to be honestand I want the people in my life
to know that I am there for thembecause I want to, not because I
have to.
I'm a grown ass woman and Idon't have to do anything.
And that's just it.
I don't have to say yes out ofobligations.
No.
Randi (36:36):
No, I'm not doing it.
The feeling of obligation.
Yes.
Yeah, it's just Okay, fine.
I gotta pay my bills, but Well,yeah.
There's That's an obligationthat you've signed up, a
contract that you've signed todo, to pay those bills and spend
that money.
But I'm saying things that are,like, in your control, that we
are just attaching a feeling to.
That's not an obligation.
We are That's guilt.
(36:57):
perceiving it, yeah, as anobligation.
And Again, self compassion.
Remember, it takes time tochange these things.
It's not going to happen likethat.
You have to see the patterns.
You have to have, selfActualization about it and you
have to practice this.
Jess (37:14):
I think I want everybody out there Who's listening to say
no to something in the next twoweeks that you don't want to do
in the next week Okay.
Well, I was gonna give him twoweeks now because okay fine in
the next week you
Randi (37:26):
got five
Jess (37:26):
days in the next week I want all of y'all to say no to
something that you really don'twant to do that You know you
you're doing out of guilt And soright there, just say, no, thank
you.
Randi (37:38):
Yeah.
And we want to hear about it.
Let us know how you are learningto break free from the pressures
of these feelings of obligationsin your own life.
And if you have found thisepisode helpful, please share it
with a friend, leave us areview, and don't forget to
subscribe and follow us for moreconversations about women's
mental health, self care, andhow to live a life that feels
(38:01):
authentic and empowering.
Jess (38:03):
Ooh.
Authentic and empowering.
Bye! Boom.
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