January 15, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode we dive deep into the transformative "Let Them Theory" and its life-changing impact. Join Randi Owsley, LMSW, and Jessica Bullwinkle, LMFT—two renowned voices with over two decades of dedication in the realm of women's mental health—as they unfurl the essence of self-care, unveil groundbreaking female emotional wellness strategies, and the art of boundary setting.
Diving into the "Let Them Theory," you aren't just absorbing new information; you're gifting yourself an invitation to a world where emotional autonomy empowerment. At the Women's Mental Health Podcast, our collective heartbeat thrums with the resilient women who adopt the 'Let Them' approach—those who stand tall in the throes of life's storms. It's more than a concept; it's the women self-growth adventure that you deserve.
In the upcoming episodes of our podcast, we are delving into the profound depths of psychological freedom, exploring the empowering "Let Them Theory" alongside practical coping mechanisms designed to nurture personal happiness and fortify emotional resilience.
FAQ
What exactly is the "Let Them" Theory?
Who developed the "Let Them" Theory?
How can the "Let Them" Theory benefit mental health?
Is the "Let Them" Theory backed by scientific research?
How do I start implementing the "Let Them" Theory in my daily life?
Where can I learn more about the "Let Them" Theory?
#melrobbins #letthemtheory #letthem #theletthemtheory #transformyourlife #podcast #pivot #selfhelp #change #power #family #ProtectYourPeaceNow #EmotionalWellnessMatters #FindYourInnerCalm #PrioritizeYourMentalHealth #HealthyBoundariesHappierLife #StressManagementStrategies #AnxietyReliefTips #protectyourpeace
Head to our website to learn more about sponsorship opportunities, as well as stats.
https://www.womensmentalhealthpodcast.com/p/advertise/
Stay Connected! Instagram | Facebook | Website + Resources
The Women’s Mental Health Podcast, hosted by licensed therapists Randi Owsley MSW and Jessica Bullwinkle LMFT, PMH-C, offers educational and entertaining mental health content. This is not therapy or a substitute for professional care. No therapeutic relationship is formed by listening or engaging. Some links may be affiliate links, which may earn us a small commission at no extra cost to you.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Randi (00:00):
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
(00:02):
I'm randy.
I'm And I'm Jess.
And we are two licensedpsychotherapists, and this is a
safe space where we talk aboutmental health, well being, and
strategies for coping withlife's challenges.
And how all of this is normal,and you are not alone.
Today we're diving into amindset shift that has been
taking the personal developmentworld by storm.
It's called the let them theory.
(00:23):
The concept is simple yet sopowerful.
If you've ever felt drained,trying to, if you've ever felt
drained, trying to control orfix everything and everyone
around you, This episode is foryou.
Jess (00:36):
Find us and more information at
womensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
So have you ever had thesethoughts?
Randi (00:43):
What exactly is the let them theory?
Jess (00:46):
Who developed this let them theory?
Randi (00:48):
How can this theory benefit our mental health?
Jess (00:53):
Can it improve relationships?
Randi (00:55):
Is the Let Them Theory backed by scientific research?
Jess (00:58):
How do I start implementing the Let Them Theory
into my daily life?
Randi (01:02):
What are common challenges that I might run into
when trying to practice the stepby steps of the Let Them Theory?
Jess (01:09):
Are there any risks that I might have when I actually try
to practice this let themtheory?
Randi (01:15):
And how can this theory help in the workplace
environments or maybe withfamily and relationships or
school or wherever it is,burnout,
Jess (01:25):
burnout, right?
Exactly.
And where can I learn more aboutthis?
Let them theory besides on ourpodcast or on our website,
womensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
Randi (01:34):
Okay, let's start by defining It, the let them theory
is all about releasing controlover others actions and choices.
It encourages you to let peopledo what they want, even if it
does not align with what youthink they should do.
Jess (01:51):
And that's the hard part right there, What we're talking
about really is having your ownboundaries and allowing other
people to make their owndecisions.
And as moms, it is hardsometimes because we see our
kiddos and we're like, that'snot what you should be doing.
You're doing the wrong thingeven with
Randi (02:07):
a partner or spouse or they're doing the wrong thing.
Yeah,
Jess (02:12):
they usually are doing the wrong thing.
They're doing the wrong thing.
I've said this in therapy allthe time, is that sometimes you
have to let them know.
And that is so hard becausewhether they fail or pass, it is
their decision and they have toown it.
And you have to let it happenthat's how I learn.
Randi (02:31):
Yeah.
And you have to not feel guiltover doing that either, which I
think is, the hard part of this.
It's not only letting them, butit's letting go of the
expectations and the feelingsaround it.
Jess (02:44):
the idea behind all this is if somebody wants to leave,
let them.
If somebody wants to say no, letthem.
If somebody wants to make adecision you don't agree with,
let them.
Let them.
Randi (02:56):
Yeah.
So it's not about giving up orbeing passive.
It's about recognizing that wecannot control other people and
trying to do so leads tounnecessary stress, unnecessary
emotional conflict.
It's just hot mess when you tryto control everything and
(03:16):
everyone around you and it'sreally draining.
Jess (03:19):
Even if you're like, I know how to do that and I can do
it really fast, this isn't aboutyou.
This is about letting themfigure out if that's what they
want to do.
Because sometimes people don'twant to do it your way or the
right way I'm air quoting.
Randi (03:33):
Well, and we've talked about this too before is we have
let our kids fail forwardbecause I feel like you really
only learn in life when you dofail and you learn to pick
yourself up.
and make those changes that youneed to.
And unless you've done thatyourself, you don't really have
those tools to do that.
Jess (03:53):
Exactly.
And we don't always present thetools to people in a way that
they can see it and be able touse it or
Randi (04:00):
understand and process it.
think differently.
We all understand things totallydifferently.
Jess (04:06):
Yeah, it's like handing in this weird wrench and then
going, here you go, and nottelling them how to use it or
where it goes.
It's just this weird part of atoolbox that you have to know
how to use it.
So why is it called the Let ThemTheory then?
Randi (04:19):
It's called the Let Them Theory because it's really
emphasizing, granting others thefreedom to make their own
choices, letting them be whothey are, Even if it's
challenging your expectations,your feelings, your wants, or
your desires.
This phrase, let them isempowering because it shifts the
focus away from what others aredoing and back to what you can
(04:42):
control.
So it's just like you're takingthat weight off of your
shoulders and being like, okay,I'm just letting them do that.
Jess (04:48):
If you've ever been in therapy, that's what a therapist
will say is you can only controlyour own reactions and your own
body.
boundaries.
And that's it.
The only thing you can controlis yourself.
Randi (05:00):
essentially what it breaks down to is it's about
accepting that other people'sdecisions are not a reflection
of your worth or your role intheir life.
It is.
That's huge.
It does not diminish that you'rea mother or a spouse or a friend
or a co worker.
They're on their own journeythat you have no understanding
(05:23):
about.
Or control over.
Or control over.
They might be the most selfishperson or they might just have
blinders on, or they might bedealing with trauma.
We do not even know whatencompasses somebody's whole
world and what they're walkingthrough, so how can we control
that?
Jess (05:39):
We can even put this to things like internet trolls.
If somebody wants to love, Idon't know, whatever political
party, let them.
Yeah.
They can love it.
You don't have to argue withthem that they're wrong.
You are allowed to like yours.
They're allowed to like theirs.
And that is such a great thingbecause sometimes we get so
wrapped up into you're wrong.
What if we just let everybody dowhat they wanted to do and
(06:02):
believe what they wanted tobelieve?
I thought that's what we weredoing.
Randi (06:05):
This is empowering in a way that it just makes you feel
like secure in yourself, becauseif you're not worried about what
everybody's thinking or whatthey're doing, like you're not
having FOMO, like maybe yourfriends, aren't inviting you to
this event or that thing, or youfeel like you're being excluded.
Just Whatever, let them.
Jess (06:24):
Yeah, let them exclude you.
Maybe you don't want to goanyway, or maybe you do and you
find something else to do.
If they're going to exclude you,go find people to hang out with
that are going to include you.
when we talk about this in ourpodcast for women's mental
health, It is really importantbecause as moms and as women, we
are often socialized to take onthe role of caregivers and
(06:47):
fixers and peacemakers,especially that peacemaker part.
Randi (06:51):
we, We overextend ourselves constantly as women
and we put ourselves on the backburner again and again because
we are trying to manage otherpeople's emotions.
We're trying to solve theirproblems.
We're trying to keep everythingrunning smoothly.
We're trying to work.
We're trying to keep a calendar.
We're trying to keep thesporting events going like on
and on and on.
(07:11):
It's exhausting and it is notsustainable.
So in theory, this offers a wayfor you to break the cycle.
Jess (07:21):
Oh, and every time we learn how to break the cycle, we
break that cycle for ourgenerations below us.
We learn a little bit, we teachour children more, and hopefully
eventually we're going to breakthis cycle entirely, because we
don't need to control everybodyand everything.
thing.
Randi (07:40):
Yep, and when you focus on yourself and what you can
control and narrow your focusdown like that and focus on your
well being and your mentalhealth, without feeling
responsible it allows you tofocus on what you control your
own well being, your own health,your own mental health, your own
life, without feelingresponsible for everybody else.
Jess (08:02):
this isn't just in your personal relationships.
This can be applied to yourwork, your friends, how you
engage with your neighbors, howyou engage with.
Social media or cultural orpolitical expectations because
there's a part of us that wehave gotten so involved in
everybody else's business, Wemake jokes and we call it, is it
(08:22):
Susan?
Is it Susan?
The one that everybody wasmaking fun of because she called
the cops on somebody having apicnic?
Karen.
Karen! Oh, God, Susan.
Where did I get Susan?
I'm like, where's I don't know.
Who's Susan?
Oh, you know what it is?
Because people call it a lazySusan.
And I'm like, why does Susan,why can't it be like a lazy
Stan?
Oh, yeah.
Okay, sorry.
That's where that came from.
Okay.
So let's talk first about how dowe do this, how we're going to
(08:44):
shift our mindset to not be ineverybody's business.
Randi (08:47):
So you said it, we're going to shift our mindset.
So that's the first step is toreframe how you see the control
that you have, instead ofviewing it as your
responsibility and that you haveto do this and other people are
going to fail without this.
you have to let it go and knowthat it's not your
(09:09):
responsibility to guide others.
You have to recognize thateverybody is on their own
journey.
Jess (09:14):
They are and that is okay.
This reminds me of thatbutterfly poem.
If you love them set them freeand if they come back They're
yours.
Yeah, I mean it remindsbutterfly
Randi (09:23):
or a bird?
You're
Jess (09:25):
just gonna make fun of me the whole podcast, aren't you?
I thought it was a butterfly Buteither way if you release your
bird and your bird comes backand it's yours, then great.
Maybe it was a home approach
Randi (09:35):
But whatever Just anybody let them go and They'll be free
in a, it's meant to be, it'smeant to be or that one,
whatever.
You let your
Jess (09:42):
zombie go,
Randi (09:43):
but it comes back.
It's the same thing.
There's so many things.
This is popular right nowbecause Mel Robbins has made
this into a book, but it is nota new theory.
It is something that has beenaround like, for ages and ages.
It's the basis of it is makingboundaries and putting yourself
first, putting your wellbeingfirst.
Jess (10:00):
Putting up boundaries.
And I love how we just say, letthem though, because right, let
them.
Who cares?
It's like my grandma says, fuckhim.
It's the same thing.
Fuck him.
Randi (10:10):
But that goes into the second step, which is focus on
your own boundaries.
Don't worry about other people'sboundaries too.
This doesn't mean that you haveto accept bad behavior or you
have to accept peopledisrespecting you or your
boundaries.
Jess (10:24):
That's hard though, right?
Yes, you don't have to that.
But it's hard when we startgoing, well, they don't agree
with me.
So that's disrespecting me.
No, there is a fine line.
If they're calling you anasshole, because you don't agree
with them, that's disrespectful.
But if they're saying, I don'tagree with you, that is not
disrespectful.
(10:45):
And so that's why I think whereeverything gets blurred in our
country or in our culture.
Randi (10:50):
Well, I think a lot of times we think with our
emotions, and we don't take theemotions out of it.
And logically, usually peoplearen't intending for it to
target you a certain way.
But sometimes we read it thatway, or hear it a certain way or
hear a tone and it triggers us.
So being also like consciouslyaware of those things and how
(11:11):
they impact you.
And really, just letting themKeep their tone and their bad
attitude over there.
Jess (11:18):
That's true.
You put up your boundary and yousay let them.
If they want to be rude, letthem.
Again, we've talked aboutboundaries in our other podcast.
You can go back and listen toboundaries, but boundaries are
about what you will and will nottolerate, not about controlling
others.
I will not tolerate beingtreated this way.
I will not tolerate.
tolerate, somebody talking to methis way, whatever it is, but I
(11:40):
can't control them, but I cansay, I'm not going to have a
conversation with you anymore.
If you want to do that, that'sfine.
However, it won't be with me.
Randi (11:48):
for example, so a friend is always counseling on you.
But then if you're constantlymaking plans with them over and
over again, who's the fool?
Huh?
I said, who's the fool?
Yeah, exactly.
So it's like, you're enablingthat behavior.
Just let them cancel on you andstop making plans with them.
That's my attitude now.
(12:08):
I used to like, chase people andbe like, Oh, I feel bad.
I know they're busy or this orthe other and I'll keep trying
to like, reconnect and reconnectand reconnect.
Finally, I was just like,whatever.
They don't care as much as I do.
I had to let go.
Well,
Jess (12:22):
it's not that they don't care as
Randi (12:23):
much as you do.
They, for
Jess (12:24):
whatever reason, can't show up, they can't follow
through, whatever it is, letthem.
Randi (12:30):
Yeah, their priorities, are different, probably like my
priority.
One of my priorities has alwaysbeen, friendships.
And for other people, maybetheir career came first or their
relationship or they didn't knowhow to balance it.
And I've learned that now thatI'm older, but it was hard to
see.
When I was younger and let go ofthat.
Jess (12:48):
Exactly.
We have friends that are like,let's meet up somewhere.
And we used to get ready andthey'd say, Oh, we can't make
it.
Okay, cool.
Then we said, okay, why don't wejust come to our house and we'll
cook?
Well, we had so much damn foodone night because they said
we're not coming.
So the next time we were like.
Sure, you can come.
We didn't get dressed.
We didn't make food, We werelike, I'll just order something
if they show up.
(13:08):
Yeah, I can just you know, ubersomething and guess what?
They didn't show up.
Yeah, and so my husband's likearen't you glad I'm like, oh
totally I wasn't planning on I'mactually coming I just I knew
this was going to happen.
Now.
Have I done something since?
Absolutely, not Because I'mlike,
Randi (13:23):
Another step is to practice emotional detachment.
Jess (13:28):
That's hard.
When I talk to people aboutlearning to detach with love.
Or practicing emotionaldetachment.
They don't even know what thatconcept is.
That is a great podcast ideabecause we have no clue what
that means or how to do it.
Randi (13:41):
Well, and I think too, this is also something else that
we should talk more in depthabout, but a lot of people that
have a hard time with this,letting go and letting them
theory have anxious.
Attachment.
Jess (13:54):
Oh,
Randi (13:54):
Style and their relationship.
So it's very hard because,they've had some type of trauma
and they're very anxious overletting go of people or not
being in control.
Jess (14:04):
But let's talk real quick.
Let's go back.
I know we're like, ooh, futurepodcast, future podcast.
But let's go back and talk aboutemotional detachment.
It doesn't mean you have to bemean or cold or, I don't give a
fucking different.
Mm hmm.
It means not tying Youremotional state to somebody
else's actions and that rightthere is part of codependency as
(14:24):
well
Randi (14:25):
And when you think about it, it's healthy to do that
because you're allowing themYou're caring enough to step
back and allow them to findtheir own footing and what
they're doing
Jess (14:36):
It's if your child is in a bad mood and it's so hard
because when they're in a badmood They take it out on you.
It's hard to not put you in abad mood, and so But I was in a
great mood just because you'rein a bad mood doesn't mean I
have to be in a bad mood.
I'm gonna go in a different roomand I'm gonna let you be however
you want to be.
Yeah.
Let them.
And so that's what we're talkingabout is detaching them.
(14:57):
Letting someone go through theirown struggles or make their own
mistakes can feel so difficult,especially for us fixers who
know the right answer.
I'm air quoting again.
Especially when you care aboutthem, that's the hard part.
When you love them.
And you have to make decisionsthat are going to, Randy and I
were talking about somethingbefore the podcast, it's we know
(15:18):
what the answers are, but man,it's going to suck for
Randi (15:21):
everybody.
Yeah, and sometimes though, it'sthat hard love.
Jess (15:24):
Oh, tough love.
Randi (15:25):
Oh, I hate that tough love.
The tough love that's really thebest and this also makes me
think of like the addictioncycle and how, Many times people
fail again and again and againand they relapse over and over
and over again and people don'tunderstand that that's part of
the healing process and when Weare working on this like with
ourselves too and learning tolet go it's not gonna happen
(15:47):
overnight
Jess (15:48):
No, it's not It's what they need to grow.
If we let them fail, we let themsucceed, we let them do whatever
it is that they want to do,that's great.
That's what they need to grow.
Randi (16:00):
The more that we practice this too, the easier it becomes,
but just being kind to yourself,knowing that change takes time,
especially when you areunlearning such deeply ingrained
patterns that we are reallyemotionally attached to too,
even if sometimes they'renegative.
But if you start seeing likethose baby steps and seeing
(16:22):
okay, I'm having, this is givingme like a breath of air, like
letting these people do whatthey need to do and focus on
themselves.
And I'm focusing on myself.
Then you keep moving forwardwith it and it just gets better
and better.
And that's an easy way tonormalize the process.
Jess (16:36):
Exactly.
It's like when you have anunhealthy relationship with food
and you learn how to have ahealthy relationship, it doesn't
mean that one day you're notgoing to go, Ooh, there's some
fudge, I'm gonna eat that.
And you don't need to beatyourself up for the bite or two
that you had.
But you also don't know that youno longer need to eat the entire
box.
And you can move on and that'sokay.
So you don't have to beatyourself up, just catch yourself
(16:58):
where you are.
And go, Oh, hang on, I need tostop.
I even put my hand up.
I have to stop.
Let me change this.
Let me let them do their thing.
Randi (17:06):
So let's talk about some more real life examples.
Okay.
So imagine your partner wants tospend a weekend with their
friends.
Instead of with you.
I would love that.
I'm kidding.
Me too.
But when you were younger, thismight be like the end of the
world.
So instead of trying to guiltthem into staying, you let them,
(17:28):
you let them go on the boy'strip.
You let them go on the girl'strip.
You let them
Jess (17:33):
go hunting or fishing or on their
Randi (17:35):
video game caveman thing, whatever that looks like.
And you use the time to dosomething you love.
Like spending their money.
Or spending your own money.
Or spending your own money.
Complain about it.
Exactly.
Crafting or reading books allweekend in your pajamas.
Whatever that looks like.
God, we
Jess (17:51):
sound bitter.
Randi (17:52):
We're really not bitter.
We're just joking.
So what's another example?
Jess (17:56):
Okay let's do a work one.
So let's say your co workerdecides to take on a risky
project that you think is a badidea.
That you're like, that's gonnafail.
You shouldn't do that.
We're not ready for it.
Whatever.
Instead of stepping in to savethem, you let them and focus on
your own crap.
You have your own projects andwhen they're like, Oh, I don't
(18:17):
know what I'm doing, let themfigure that out and don't figure
it out for them unless they'resaying, I would like to
collaborate with you and can youhelp me with this?
You can decide yes or no if youhave time.
This wasn't your project and itwasn't your idea and it's also
not your job to save them.
Randi (18:34):
Say that again.
It's not your job to save them.
Jess (18:37):
It is not your job to save them.
Randi (18:40):
these moments Might make you feel uncomfortable.
I mean they probably 99.
9 percent will make you feeluncomfortable.
Jess (18:47):
I preach this all the time, but it's still
uncomfortable.
It's very hard
Randi (18:50):
I feel like to do with like your kids and close, Family
members and friends and peoplethat you have any type of and
enmeshed relationship with it'svery hard but Trust the process
and trust yourself.
Jess (19:03):
Yeah, when the douche bag in front of you is gonna cut you
off and merge into you
Randi (19:07):
Let them let them and
Jess (19:09):
let that finger fly.
That's what I know.
No, no, no, no, sometimes Justlet that no, that's true.
But just let them in andwhatever, we all have somewhere
to get to what's the big deal?
Okay, so now let's go throughand let's answer our have you
evers.
Randi, what exactly is the letthem theory?
Randi (19:28):
So it is a psychological approach encouraging individuals
to focus on their own actionsand emotions rather than trying
to control or worry aboutothers.
It's letting go of ourexpectations of how people
should react and focusing on ourown path to emotional well
being.
So just staying out of thedrama.
(19:48):
Let them have their own drama.
Let them have their own, gettogethers.
Let them have their own hotmesses and you just do you.
Jess (19:55):
I don't know about y'all's moms, but my mom has been
telling me that since I was akid.
Let them do that.
If they were going to jump off abridge, would you just let them
jump off the bridge and you godo something different.
You keep walking by.
You keep walking.
It is none of your business.
You do not have to follow them.
This is what our moms used totell us way back in the.
Mid century.
Randi (20:11):
Yeah.
Back in the 18 1800s?
1800s, as my kid says I'm from.
So Jess, who developed the LetThem Theory?
Jess (20:19):
This has been really popularized by several people,
but most recently by MelRobbins.
I know she came up with itduring one of her social On
Instagram.
Yeah, it was Instagram back in23 or something.
She heard
Randi (20:32):
about the theory and she was talking about it on
Instagram and it got reallypopular she's already like a
Self help.
I like
Jess (20:40):
her.
I really do
Randi (20:41):
So she's written I think five other books or something.
Jess (20:45):
I like to listen to my books So she actually will go
through and she talks and readsher books too.
Just like bernet does And so Ilike her.
She's a very strong woman.
Yeah, she's
Randi (20:55):
had several TED talks, she does motivational speaking.
And so she discussed the theoryand technique to really help
people work on their well beingin their life.
And her book just came out.
Jess (21:08):
Yeah, came out end of December.
And honestly, I've beenrecommending it because I'm
going a lot of people have ahard time with boundaries.
And This is another way withsome practical tips on how to
create your boundaries.
Step by step.
Exactly.
I also think it goes back tothat whole Marie Antoinette, let
them eat cake.
Yeah.
Let them, let them eat cake.
Fuck them.
It goes back to my grandma's,fuck
Randi (21:28):
them.
So how does this theory benefitmental health?
Jess (21:32):
If you're able to change some of your thought process and
work on adopting the let themtheory, you're going to be able
to reduce stress and anxietythat comes from trying to manage
or predict other people'sactions.
And that's the thing.
So many of us try to go downthat future us and predict what
(21:53):
people are going to do.
And I can't predict whatsomeone's going to do.
They
Randi (21:56):
can't even with all the giant computer AI.
Machines, they still cannotpredict.
behavior.
Jess (22:05):
We do it all the time.
Well, if I do this and this iswhat's going to happen and da,
da, da, da, da.
Randi (22:09):
Everything is based off of theories or what we think,
what we think should work orwhat most likely works for most
people.
But as we talk about everybodyis not most people and we are
all vastly, vastly different.
Jess (22:26):
And all of us are continually, hopefully learning
and growing and changing to ourenvironments and what's going
on.
Hey, Randy.
Can the LetThemTheory improverelationships?
Randi (22:36):
Absolutely, anything where you set boundaries and
work on yourself is going tohelp you improve your
relationships, whether those areco workers, friends, family,
spouse.
When you stop trying to controlothers and accept people as they
are, it leads to healthierrelationships and more harmony.
(22:57):
Honest and open relationshipsbecause it encourages really
genuine connection based onRespecting individuals like
differences and maybe trusting.
Yeah, I'm trusting.
Yeah,
Jess (23:09):
so I was thinking It's like when people try to make
that you see it on TV or inperson people try to make a
seating chart for a wedding likea dinner and they're saying, Oh,
well, Uncle Jim can't go sitnext to this person because then
they're going to fight overpolitics.
And this person can't sit nextto this person because, well,
they don't like this person.
That is so much drama.
That is not even your problem.
If they can't behave themselvesat your wedding, then maybe they
(23:31):
should decide not to go.
Yeah.
Let
Randi (23:34):
them.
Exactly.
Jess (23:36):
I like that.
That's exactly what I justpictured when you're talking
about that.
Randi (23:39):
So is the let them theory backed by scientific research?
Jess (23:43):
I'm not real sure about the scientific research behind
it.
I'll be honest.
I know there's no okay.
I was trying to be nice.
I know that there might be someprinciples behind it.
There are
Randi (23:55):
some there is one principle from the 50s.
That it's a loosely based on,
Jess (24:04):
well, but part of this is if we let go of control, focus
on self regulation, that stuffis supported by psychological
research, right?
When we can let go of control,focus on our own selves, that
has been proved that we canreduce stress and emotional, and
increase our emotionalregulation.
And so is the let them thinktheory actually studied yet?
(24:26):
No, but everything that kind ofbacks this up has been studied.
Randi (24:30):
So it's loosely based off of the theory developed by
Juliana Rotter, which is thelocus of control, which is like
how you have control over Theoutcome of your life, but you
solely, not all these otherpoints of interest.
Jess (24:47):
Yeah.
And if you add that with selfregulation and stress reduction
and self emotional regulation,that stuff has been studied.
So okay, Randy, how do I startmaking this in my life and how
do I make the changes?
Randi (25:02):
Consciously recognizing moments when you're trying to
control or predict othersbehaviors.
Jess (25:09):
Like a hundred percent of the time, but okay.
Yeah,
Randi (25:11):
remind yourself to let them and refocus on how you can
positively manage your ownresponse and your own actions.
Jess (25:21):
Ooh, okay, okay, I got an idea.
Most of us feel it in our chestwhen we start feeling anxious or
they're not doing it, right?
We start feeling like our chestis tight Start paying attention
to your body And when your bodyis having that reaction that you
want to change it and dosomething and it's bothering you
I want you to go get yourbubbles and I want you to
(25:41):
breathe I want you to blowbubbles and breathe and just let
them
Randi (25:46):
yeah, create a different pattern for you.
Yes
Jess (25:48):
Because when you can start catching yourself sooner, you're
going to be able to make thosechanges sooner.
And that is how eventuallyyou're going to be like, cool,
you want to do that?
Awesome.
Randi (25:59):
So what do you think are challenges that people are going
to face when they're trying topractice this let them theory?
Jess (26:06):
I think the biggest one is going to be releasing control,
especially if you're used tomanaging situations or
behaviors, because if you'vebeen doing it for so long, it's
going to be hard.
And this is going to require alot of patience and a lot of
practice to shift that focusback onto yourself.
It's the, when you're using yourfinger and pointing at somebody
(26:27):
and making I statements kind ofthing.
You have to let go of theattachments of the outcomes.
Randi (26:33):
I had to do that recently.
I have some family members thatwork for me, and they're not on
the same page as I am, and I hadto be like, okay, well, this is
what needs to be done, and youdon't want to meet me here.
So you can choose this path andI can choose this path.
And if that's what you want todo, fine, because I've been
trying for five years to get youon my
Jess (26:54):
path, and it's not working and it's not
Randi (26:57):
working.
And I'm just banging my headagainst the wall
Jess (27:00):
because you've been enabling this behavior.
Randi (27:03):
I know I'm a enabler.
Jess (27:06):
Well, because you think you're helping,
Randi (27:08):
right?
Jess (27:09):
It's not like you're intentionally saying I'm going
to enable and I'm going to messthings up so are there any risks
associated with the let themtheory?
Randi (27:15):
I'm in with anything.
If you misinterpret, what ismisinterpret?
If you misunderstand, like thetheory and you are ignoring.
inappropriate behaviors thatshould be addressed if you are
(27:37):
Not listening to yourself andallowing these triggers to
happen again and again, it canbecome worse so it's really
crucial to differentiate betweenletting go of control in a
healthy way and totallyneglecting a Responsibility and
accountability for things inyour life like you don't want to
be a doormat You know, for otherpeople, and you also
Jess (27:57):
don't want to set people up, right?
Randi (27:59):
It's not let them, beat me up.
It's not, let them, financially,abuse my bank account.
It's not these things.
This is so just letting, smallthings go.
Jess (28:10):
Yeah.
Let small things go and let themstart to learn and take control.
Randi (28:13):
So again, how do you think this theory can help in a
workplace environment?
Jess (28:18):
I still think this is going to help reduce stress by
allowing other individuals tofocus on their own contributions
and reactions rather thangetting overly involved in the
workplace dynamics or evenconflicts.
I always say If we're sittingaround a conference table and
there is some project thatnobody wants to do, and if
you're the one that's alwaysgoing, I'll take it, fine, I'll
(28:41):
take it.
If you just let them and you'dstay quiet for like another five
minutes, somebody else is goingto jump in.
You don't have to be the onethat always jumps up because
nobody immediately saysanything.
Let them.
And if nobody jumps up, letwhoever asked, let them figure
out what to do next.
Because otherwise you get allthe shitty projects.
It's true.
Somebody's gonna jump up andthen get that one.
(29:02):
I don't want it.
Randi (29:04):
Not it.
Jess (29:05):
Not it.
All right.
Where can I learn more aboutthis theory, Randy?
Randi (29:08):
Look into Mel Robbins books or similar authors who
discuss themes of empowermentand self regulation and
boundaries.
There's online resources.
There's more podcasts.
There's even workshops, usuallylocally.
We will link what we can on thewebsite.
Okay.
And just find those practicaltips that can help you approach
(29:29):
this, and adopt this style inyour life if you find that
you're struggling with it.
Jess (29:33):
Exactly.
Start looking for it.
Google it.
Go to TikTok.
All the young kids are doing it.
They know so much more aboutmental health than us, I swear.
Okay, so the let them theory isa really powerful tool for
reclaiming your energy andmental well being.
It is about releasing the needfor control so that you can
focus on what really matters inyour life, which is your own
(29:57):
growth and happiness.
Randi (30:00):
Letting them is not about apathy.
It's about acceptance.
It's about trusting that otherscan handle their own lives and
that you are enough just the wayyou are and they're enough just
the way that they are.
Jess (30:14):
Wow.
That's actually really cool.
I like that.
I really like that.
So thank you for joining ustoday on the Women's Mental
Health Podcast.
If this episode spoke to you oryou would like to share it with
somebody because you think theyneed to let them as well, share
it, like us, and just reallyjust keep listening.
Randi (30:34):
Until next time, take care of yourselves and let them.
Welcome back to the women's mental health podcast.
(00:02):
I'm randy.
I'm And I'm Jess.
And we are two licensedpsychotherapists, and this is a
safe space where we talk aboutmental health, well being, and
strategies for coping withlife's challenges.
And how all of this is normal,and you are not alone.
Today we're diving into amindset shift that has been
taking the personal developmentworld by storm.
It's called the let them theory.
(00:23):
The concept is simple yet sopowerful.
If you've ever felt drained,trying to, if you've ever felt
drained, trying to control orfix everything and everyone
around you, This episode is foryou.
Jess (00:36):
Find us and more information at
womensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
So have you ever had thesethoughts?
Randi (00:43):
What exactly is the let them theory?
Jess (00:46):
Who developed this let them theory?
Randi (00:48):
How can this theory benefit our mental health?
Jess (00:53):
Can it improve relationships?
Randi (00:55):
Is the Let Them Theory backed by scientific research?
Jess (00:58):
How do I start implementing the Let Them Theory
into my daily life?
Randi (01:02):
What are common challenges that I might run into
when trying to practice the stepby steps of the Let Them Theory?
Jess (01:09):
Are there any risks that I might have when I actually try
to practice this let themtheory?
Randi (01:15):
And how can this theory help in the workplace
environments or maybe withfamily and relationships or
school or wherever it is,burnout,
Jess (01:25):
burnout, right?
Exactly.
And where can I learn more aboutthis?
Let them theory besides on ourpodcast or on our website,
womensmentalhealthpodcast.
com.
Randi (01:34):
Okay, let's start by defining It, the let them theory
is all about releasing controlover others actions and choices.
It encourages you to let peopledo what they want, even if it
does not align with what youthink they should do.
Jess (01:51):
And that's the hard part right there, What we're talking
about really is having your ownboundaries and allowing other
people to make their owndecisions.
And as moms, it is hardsometimes because we see our
kiddos and we're like, that'snot what you should be doing.
You're doing the wrong thingeven with
Randi (02:07):
a partner or spouse or they're doing the wrong thing.
Yeah,
Jess (02:12):
they usually are doing the wrong thing.
They're doing the wrong thing.
I've said this in therapy allthe time, is that sometimes you
have to let them know.
And that is so hard becausewhether they fail or pass, it is
their decision and they have toown it.
And you have to let it happenthat's how I learn.
Randi (02:31):
Yeah.
And you have to not feel guiltover doing that either, which I
think is, the hard part of this.
It's not only letting them, butit's letting go of the
expectations and the feelingsaround it.
Jess (02:44):
the idea behind all this is if somebody wants to leave,
let them.
If somebody wants to say no, letthem.
If somebody wants to make adecision you don't agree with,
let them.
Let them.
Randi (02:56):
Yeah.
So it's not about giving up orbeing passive.
It's about recognizing that wecannot control other people and
trying to do so leads tounnecessary stress, unnecessary
emotional conflict.
It's just hot mess when you tryto control everything and
(03:16):
everyone around you and it'sreally draining.
Jess (03:19):
Even if you're like, I know how to do that and I can do
it really fast, this isn't aboutyou.
This is about letting themfigure out if that's what they
want to do.
Because sometimes people don'twant to do it your way or the
right way I'm air quoting.
Randi (03:33):
Well, and we've talked about this too before is we have
let our kids fail forwardbecause I feel like you really
only learn in life when you dofail and you learn to pick
yourself up.
and make those changes that youneed to.
And unless you've done thatyourself, you don't really have
those tools to do that.
Jess (03:53):
Exactly.
And we don't always present thetools to people in a way that
they can see it and be able touse it or
Randi (04:00):
understand and process it.
think differently.
We all understand things totallydifferently.
Jess (04:06):
Yeah, it's like handing in this weird wrench and then
going, here you go, and nottelling them how to use it or
where it goes.
It's just this weird part of atoolbox that you have to know
how to use it.
So why is it called the Let ThemTheory then?
Randi (04:19):
It's called the Let Them Theory because it's really
emphasizing, granting others thefreedom to make their own
choices, letting them be whothey are, Even if it's
challenging your expectations,your feelings, your wants, or
your desires.
This phrase, let them isempowering because it shifts the
focus away from what others aredoing and back to what you can
(04:42):
control.
So it's just like you're takingthat weight off of your
shoulders and being like, okay,I'm just letting them do that.
Jess (04:48):
If you've ever been in therapy, that's what a therapist
will say is you can only controlyour own reactions and your own
body.
boundaries.
And that's it.
The only thing you can controlis yourself.
Randi (05:00):
essentially what it breaks down to is it's about
accepting that other people'sdecisions are not a reflection
of your worth or your role intheir life.
It is.
That's huge.
It does not diminish that you'rea mother or a spouse or a friend
or a co worker.
They're on their own journeythat you have no understanding
(05:23):
about.
Or control over.
Or control over.
They might be the most selfishperson or they might just have
blinders on, or they might bedealing with trauma.
We do not even know whatencompasses somebody's whole
world and what they're walkingthrough, so how can we control
that?
Jess (05:39):
We can even put this to things like internet trolls.
If somebody wants to love, Idon't know, whatever political
party, let them.
Yeah.
They can love it.
You don't have to argue withthem that they're wrong.
You are allowed to like yours.
They're allowed to like theirs.
And that is such a great thingbecause sometimes we get so
wrapped up into you're wrong.
What if we just let everybody dowhat they wanted to do and
(06:02):
believe what they wanted tobelieve?
I thought that's what we weredoing.
Randi (06:05):
This is empowering in a way that it just makes you feel
like secure in yourself, becauseif you're not worried about what
everybody's thinking or whatthey're doing, like you're not
having FOMO, like maybe yourfriends, aren't inviting you to
this event or that thing, or youfeel like you're being excluded.
Just Whatever, let them.
Jess (06:24):
Yeah, let them exclude you.
Maybe you don't want to goanyway, or maybe you do and you
find something else to do.
If they're going to exclude you,go find people to hang out with
that are going to include you.
when we talk about this in ourpodcast for women's mental
health, It is really importantbecause as moms and as women, we
are often socialized to take onthe role of caregivers and
(06:47):
fixers and peacemakers,especially that peacemaker part.
Randi (06:51):
we, We overextend ourselves constantly as women
and we put ourselves on the backburner again and again because
we are trying to manage otherpeople's emotions.
We're trying to solve theirproblems.
We're trying to keep everythingrunning smoothly.
We're trying to work.
We're trying to keep a calendar.
We're trying to keep thesporting events going like on
and on and on.
(07:11):
It's exhausting and it is notsustainable.
So in theory, this offers a wayfor you to break the cycle.
Jess (07:21):
Oh, and every time we learn how to break the cycle, we
break that cycle for ourgenerations below us.
We learn a little bit, we teachour children more, and hopefully
eventually we're going to breakthis cycle entirely, because we
don't need to control everybodyand everything.
thing.
Randi (07:40):
Yep, and when you focus on yourself and what you can
control and narrow your focusdown like that and focus on your
well being and your mentalhealth, without feeling
responsible it allows you tofocus on what you control your
own well being, your own health,your own mental health, your own
life, without feelingresponsible for everybody else.
Jess (08:02):
this isn't just in your personal relationships.
This can be applied to yourwork, your friends, how you
engage with your neighbors, howyou engage with.
Social media or cultural orpolitical expectations because
there's a part of us that wehave gotten so involved in
everybody else's business, Wemake jokes and we call it, is it
(08:22):
Susan?
Is it Susan?
The one that everybody wasmaking fun of because she called
the cops on somebody having apicnic?
Karen.
Karen! Oh, God, Susan.
Where did I get Susan?
I'm like, where's I don't know.
Who's Susan?
Oh, you know what it is?
Because people call it a lazySusan.
And I'm like, why does Susan,why can't it be like a lazy
Stan?
Oh, yeah.
Okay, sorry.
That's where that came from.
Okay.
So let's talk first about how dowe do this, how we're going to
(08:44):
shift our mindset to not be ineverybody's business.
Randi (08:47):
So you said it, we're going to shift our mindset.
So that's the first step is toreframe how you see the control
that you have, instead ofviewing it as your
responsibility and that you haveto do this and other people are
going to fail without this.
you have to let it go and knowthat it's not your
(09:09):
responsibility to guide others.
You have to recognize thateverybody is on their own
journey.
Jess (09:14):
They are and that is okay.
This reminds me of thatbutterfly poem.
If you love them set them freeand if they come back They're
yours.
Yeah, I mean it remindsbutterfly
Randi (09:23):
or a bird?
You're
Jess (09:25):
just gonna make fun of me the whole podcast, aren't you?
I thought it was a butterfly Buteither way if you release your
bird and your bird comes backand it's yours, then great.
Maybe it was a home approach
Randi (09:35):
But whatever Just anybody let them go and They'll be free
in a, it's meant to be, it'smeant to be or that one,
whatever.
You let your
Jess (09:42):
zombie go,
Randi (09:43):
but it comes back.
It's the same thing.
There's so many things.
This is popular right nowbecause Mel Robbins has made
this into a book, but it is nota new theory.
It is something that has beenaround like, for ages and ages.
It's the basis of it is makingboundaries and putting yourself
first, putting your wellbeingfirst.
Jess (10:00):
Putting up boundaries.
And I love how we just say, letthem though, because right, let
them.
Who cares?
It's like my grandma says, fuckhim.
It's the same thing.
Fuck him.
Randi (10:10):
But that goes into the second step, which is focus on
your own boundaries.
Don't worry about other people'sboundaries too.
This doesn't mean that you haveto accept bad behavior or you
have to accept peopledisrespecting you or your
boundaries.
Jess (10:24):
That's hard though, right?
Yes, you don't have to that.
But it's hard when we startgoing, well, they don't agree
with me.
So that's disrespecting me.
No, there is a fine line.
If they're calling you anasshole, because you don't agree
with them, that's disrespectful.
But if they're saying, I don'tagree with you, that is not
disrespectful.
(10:45):
And so that's why I think whereeverything gets blurred in our
country or in our culture.
Randi (10:50):
Well, I think a lot of times we think with our
emotions, and we don't take theemotions out of it.
And logically, usually peoplearen't intending for it to
target you a certain way.
But sometimes we read it thatway, or hear it a certain way or
hear a tone and it triggers us.
So being also like consciouslyaware of those things and how
(11:11):
they impact you.
And really, just letting themKeep their tone and their bad
attitude over there.
Jess (11:18):
That's true.
You put up your boundary and yousay let them.
If they want to be rude, letthem.
Again, we've talked aboutboundaries in our other podcast.
You can go back and listen toboundaries, but boundaries are
about what you will and will nottolerate, not about controlling
others.
I will not tolerate beingtreated this way.
I will not tolerate.
tolerate, somebody talking to methis way, whatever it is, but I
(11:40):
can't control them, but I cansay, I'm not going to have a
conversation with you anymore.
If you want to do that, that'sfine.
However, it won't be with me.
Randi (11:48):
for example, so a friend is always counseling on you.
But then if you're constantlymaking plans with them over and
over again, who's the fool?
Huh?
I said, who's the fool?
Yeah, exactly.
So it's like, you're enablingthat behavior.
Just let them cancel on you andstop making plans with them.
That's my attitude now.
(12:08):
I used to like, chase people andbe like, Oh, I feel bad.
I know they're busy or this orthe other and I'll keep trying
to like, reconnect and reconnectand reconnect.
Finally, I was just like,whatever.
They don't care as much as I do.
I had to let go.
Well,
Jess (12:22):
it's not that they don't care as
Randi (12:23):
much as you do.
They, for
Jess (12:24):
whatever reason, can't show up, they can't follow
through, whatever it is, letthem.
Randi (12:30):
Yeah, their priorities, are different, probably like my
priority.
One of my priorities has alwaysbeen, friendships.
And for other people, maybetheir career came first or their
relationship or they didn't knowhow to balance it.
And I've learned that now thatI'm older, but it was hard to
see.
When I was younger and let go ofthat.
Jess (12:48):
Exactly.
We have friends that are like,let's meet up somewhere.
And we used to get ready andthey'd say, Oh, we can't make
it.
Okay, cool.
Then we said, okay, why don't wejust come to our house and we'll
cook?
Well, we had so much damn foodone night because they said
we're not coming.
So the next time we were like.
Sure, you can come.
We didn't get dressed.
We didn't make food, We werelike, I'll just order something
if they show up.
(13:08):
Yeah, I can just you know, ubersomething and guess what?
They didn't show up.
Yeah, and so my husband's likearen't you glad I'm like, oh
totally I wasn't planning on I'mactually coming I just I knew
this was going to happen.
Now.
Have I done something since?
Absolutely, not Because I'mlike,
Randi (13:23):
Another step is to practice emotional detachment.
Jess (13:28):
That's hard.
When I talk to people aboutlearning to detach with love.
Or practicing emotionaldetachment.
They don't even know what thatconcept is.
That is a great podcast ideabecause we have no clue what
that means or how to do it.
Randi (13:41):
Well, and I think too, this is also something else that
we should talk more in depthabout, but a lot of people that
have a hard time with this,letting go and letting them
theory have anxious.
Attachment.
Jess (13:54):
Oh,
Randi (13:54):
Style and their relationship.
So it's very hard because,they've had some type of trauma
and they're very anxious overletting go of people or not
being in control.
Jess (14:04):
But let's talk real quick.
Let's go back.
I know we're like, ooh, futurepodcast, future podcast.
But let's go back and talk aboutemotional detachment.
It doesn't mean you have to bemean or cold or, I don't give a
fucking different.
Mm hmm.
It means not tying Youremotional state to somebody
else's actions and that rightthere is part of codependency as
(14:24):
well
Randi (14:25):
And when you think about it, it's healthy to do that
because you're allowing themYou're caring enough to step
back and allow them to findtheir own footing and what
they're doing
Jess (14:36):
It's if your child is in a bad mood and it's so hard
because when they're in a badmood They take it out on you.
It's hard to not put you in abad mood, and so But I was in a
great mood just because you'rein a bad mood doesn't mean I
have to be in a bad mood.
I'm gonna go in a different roomand I'm gonna let you be however
you want to be.
Yeah.
Let them.
And so that's what we're talkingabout is detaching them.
(14:57):
Letting someone go through theirown struggles or make their own
mistakes can feel so difficult,especially for us fixers who
know the right answer.
I'm air quoting again.
Especially when you care aboutthem, that's the hard part.
When you love them.
And you have to make decisionsthat are going to, Randy and I
were talking about somethingbefore the podcast, it's we know
(15:18):
what the answers are, but man,it's going to suck for
Randi (15:21):
everybody.
Yeah, and sometimes though, it'sthat hard love.
Jess (15:24):
Oh, tough love.
Randi (15:25):
Oh, I hate that tough love.
The tough love that's really thebest and this also makes me
think of like the addictioncycle and how, Many times people
fail again and again and againand they relapse over and over
and over again and people don'tunderstand that that's part of
the healing process and when Weare working on this like with
ourselves too and learning tolet go it's not gonna happen
(15:47):
overnight
Jess (15:48):
No, it's not It's what they need to grow.
If we let them fail, we let themsucceed, we let them do whatever
it is that they want to do,that's great.
That's what they need to grow.
Randi (16:00):
The more that we practice this too, the easier it becomes,
but just being kind to yourself,knowing that change takes time,
especially when you areunlearning such deeply ingrained
patterns that we are reallyemotionally attached to too,
even if sometimes they'renegative.
But if you start seeing likethose baby steps and seeing
(16:22):
okay, I'm having, this is givingme like a breath of air, like
letting these people do whatthey need to do and focus on
themselves.
And I'm focusing on myself.
Then you keep moving forwardwith it and it just gets better
and better.
And that's an easy way tonormalize the process.
Jess (16:36):
Exactly.
It's like when you have anunhealthy relationship with food
and you learn how to have ahealthy relationship, it doesn't
mean that one day you're notgoing to go, Ooh, there's some
fudge, I'm gonna eat that.
And you don't need to beatyourself up for the bite or two
that you had.
But you also don't know that youno longer need to eat the entire
box.
And you can move on and that'sokay.
So you don't have to beatyourself up, just catch yourself
(16:58):
where you are.
And go, Oh, hang on, I need tostop.
I even put my hand up.
I have to stop.
Let me change this.
Let me let them do their thing.
Randi (17:06):
So let's talk about some more real life examples.
Okay.
So imagine your partner wants tospend a weekend with their
friends.
Instead of with you.
I would love that.
I'm kidding.
Me too.
But when you were younger, thismight be like the end of the
world.
So instead of trying to guiltthem into staying, you let them,
(17:28):
you let them go on the boy'strip.
You let them go on the girl'strip.
You let them
Jess (17:33):
go hunting or fishing or on their
Randi (17:35):
video game caveman thing, whatever that looks like.
And you use the time to dosomething you love.
Like spending their money.
Or spending your own money.
Or spending your own money.
Complain about it.
Exactly.
Crafting or reading books allweekend in your pajamas.
Whatever that looks like.
God, we
Jess (17:51):
sound bitter.
Randi (17:52):
We're really not bitter.
We're just joking.
So what's another example?
Jess (17:56):
Okay let's do a work one.
So let's say your co workerdecides to take on a risky
project that you think is a badidea.
That you're like, that's gonnafail.
You shouldn't do that.
We're not ready for it.
Whatever.
Instead of stepping in to savethem, you let them and focus on
your own crap.
You have your own projects andwhen they're like, Oh, I don't
(18:17):
know what I'm doing, let themfigure that out and don't figure
it out for them unless they'resaying, I would like to
collaborate with you and can youhelp me with this?
You can decide yes or no if youhave time.
This wasn't your project and itwasn't your idea and it's also
not your job to save them.
Randi (18:34):
Say that again.
It's not your job to save them.
Jess (18:37):
It is not your job to save them.
Randi (18:40):
these moments Might make you feel uncomfortable.
I mean they probably 99.
9 percent will make you feeluncomfortable.
Jess (18:47):
I preach this all the time, but it's still
uncomfortable.
It's very hard
Randi (18:50):
I feel like to do with like your kids and close, Family
members and friends and peoplethat you have any type of and
enmeshed relationship with it'svery hard but Trust the process
and trust yourself.
Jess (19:03):
Yeah, when the douche bag in front of you is gonna cut you
off and merge into you
Randi (19:07):
Let them let them and
Jess (19:09):
let that finger fly.
That's what I know.
No, no, no, no, sometimes Justlet that no, that's true.
But just let them in andwhatever, we all have somewhere
to get to what's the big deal?
Okay, so now let's go throughand let's answer our have you
evers.
Randi, what exactly is the letthem theory?
Randi (19:28):
So it is a psychological approach encouraging individuals
to focus on their own actionsand emotions rather than trying
to control or worry aboutothers.
It's letting go of ourexpectations of how people
should react and focusing on ourown path to emotional well
being.
So just staying out of thedrama.
(19:48):
Let them have their own drama.
Let them have their own, gettogethers.
Let them have their own hotmesses and you just do you.
Jess (19:55):
I don't know about y'all's moms, but my mom has been
telling me that since I was akid.
Let them do that.
If they were going to jump off abridge, would you just let them
jump off the bridge and you godo something different.
You keep walking by.
You keep walking.
It is none of your business.
You do not have to follow them.
This is what our moms used totell us way back in the.
Mid century.
Randi (20:11):
Yeah.
Back in the 18 1800s?
1800s, as my kid says I'm from.
So Jess, who developed the LetThem Theory?
Jess (20:19):
This has been really popularized by several people,
but most recently by MelRobbins.
I know she came up with itduring one of her social On
Instagram.
Yeah, it was Instagram back in23 or something.
She heard
Randi (20:32):
about the theory and she was talking about it on
Instagram and it got reallypopular she's already like a
Self help.
I like
Jess (20:40):
her.
I really do
Randi (20:41):
So she's written I think five other books or something.
Jess (20:45):
I like to listen to my books So she actually will go
through and she talks and readsher books too.
Just like bernet does And so Ilike her.
She's a very strong woman.
Yeah, she's
Randi (20:55):
had several TED talks, she does motivational speaking.
And so she discussed the theoryand technique to really help
people work on their well beingin their life.
And her book just came out.
Jess (21:08):
Yeah, came out end of December.
And honestly, I've beenrecommending it because I'm
going a lot of people have ahard time with boundaries.
And This is another way withsome practical tips on how to
create your boundaries.
Step by step.
Exactly.
I also think it goes back tothat whole Marie Antoinette, let
them eat cake.
Yeah.
Let them, let them eat cake.
Fuck them.
It goes back to my grandma's,fuck
Randi (21:28):
them.
So how does this theory benefitmental health?
Jess (21:32):
If you're able to change some of your thought process and
work on adopting the let themtheory, you're going to be able
to reduce stress and anxietythat comes from trying to manage
or predict other people'sactions.
And that's the thing.
So many of us try to go downthat future us and predict what
(21:53):
people are going to do.
And I can't predict whatsomeone's going to do.
They
Randi (21:56):
can't even with all the giant computer AI.
Machines, they still cannotpredict.
behavior.
Jess (22:05):
We do it all the time.
Well, if I do this and this iswhat's going to happen and da,
da, da, da, da.
Randi (22:09):
Everything is based off of theories or what we think,
what we think should work orwhat most likely works for most
people.
But as we talk about everybodyis not most people and we are
all vastly, vastly different.
Jess (22:26):
And all of us are continually, hopefully learning
and growing and changing to ourenvironments and what's going
on.
Hey, Randy.
Can the LetThemTheory improverelationships?
Randi (22:36):
Absolutely, anything where you set boundaries and
work on yourself is going tohelp you improve your
relationships, whether those areco workers, friends, family,
spouse.
When you stop trying to controlothers and accept people as they
are, it leads to healthierrelationships and more harmony.
(22:57):
Honest and open relationshipsbecause it encourages really
genuine connection based onRespecting individuals like
differences and maybe trusting.
Yeah, I'm trusting.
Yeah,
Jess (23:09):
so I was thinking It's like when people try to make
that you see it on TV or inperson people try to make a
seating chart for a wedding likea dinner and they're saying, Oh,
well, Uncle Jim can't go sitnext to this person because then
they're going to fight overpolitics.
And this person can't sit nextto this person because, well,
they don't like this person.
That is so much drama.
That is not even your problem.
If they can't behave themselvesat your wedding, then maybe they
(23:31):
should decide not to go.
Yeah.
Let
Randi (23:34):
them.
Exactly.
Jess (23:36):
I like that.
That's exactly what I justpictured when you're talking
about that.
Randi (23:39):
So is the let them theory backed by scientific research?
Jess (23:43):
I'm not real sure about the scientific research behind
it.
I'll be honest.
I know there's no okay.
I was trying to be nice.
I know that there might be someprinciples behind it.
There are
Randi (23:55):
some there is one principle from the 50s.
That it's a loosely based on,
Jess (24:04):
well, but part of this is if we let go of control, focus
on self regulation, that stuffis supported by psychological
research, right?
When we can let go of control,focus on our own selves, that
has been proved that we canreduce stress and emotional, and
increase our emotionalregulation.
And so is the let them thinktheory actually studied yet?
(24:26):
No, but everything that kind ofbacks this up has been studied.
Randi (24:30):
So it's loosely based off of the theory developed by
Juliana Rotter, which is thelocus of control, which is like
how you have control over Theoutcome of your life, but you
solely, not all these otherpoints of interest.
Jess (24:47):
Yeah.
And if you add that with selfregulation and stress reduction
and self emotional regulation,that stuff has been studied.
So okay, Randy, how do I startmaking this in my life and how
do I make the changes?
Randi (25:02):
Consciously recognizing moments when you're trying to
control or predict othersbehaviors.
Jess (25:09):
Like a hundred percent of the time, but okay.
Yeah,
Randi (25:11):
remind yourself to let them and refocus on how you can
positively manage your ownresponse and your own actions.
Jess (25:21):
Ooh, okay, okay, I got an idea.
Most of us feel it in our chestwhen we start feeling anxious or
they're not doing it, right?
We start feeling like our chestis tight Start paying attention
to your body And when your bodyis having that reaction that you
want to change it and dosomething and it's bothering you
I want you to go get yourbubbles and I want you to
(25:41):
breathe I want you to blowbubbles and breathe and just let
them
Randi (25:46):
yeah, create a different pattern for you.
Yes
Jess (25:48):
Because when you can start catching yourself sooner, you're
going to be able to make thosechanges sooner.
And that is how eventuallyyou're going to be like, cool,
you want to do that?
Awesome.
Randi (25:59):
So what do you think are challenges that people are going
to face when they're trying topractice this let them theory?
Jess (26:06):
I think the biggest one is going to be releasing control,
especially if you're used tomanaging situations or
behaviors, because if you'vebeen doing it for so long, it's
going to be hard.
And this is going to require alot of patience and a lot of
practice to shift that focusback onto yourself.
It's the, when you're using yourfinger and pointing at somebody
(26:27):
and making I statements kind ofthing.
You have to let go of theattachments of the outcomes.
Randi (26:33):
I had to do that recently.
I have some family members thatwork for me, and they're not on
the same page as I am, and I hadto be like, okay, well, this is
what needs to be done, and youdon't want to meet me here.
So you can choose this path andI can choose this path.
And if that's what you want todo, fine, because I've been
trying for five years to get youon my
Jess (26:54):
path, and it's not working and it's not
Randi (26:57):
working.
And I'm just banging my headagainst the wall
Jess (27:00):
because you've been enabling this behavior.
Randi (27:03):
I know I'm a enabler.
Jess (27:06):
Well, because you think you're helping,
Randi (27:08):
right?
Jess (27:09):
It's not like you're intentionally saying I'm going
to enable and I'm going to messthings up so are there any risks
associated with the let themtheory?
Randi (27:15):
I'm in with anything.
If you misinterpret, what ismisinterpret?
If you misunderstand, like thetheory and you are ignoring.
inappropriate behaviors thatshould be addressed if you are
(27:37):
Not listening to yourself andallowing these triggers to
happen again and again, it canbecome worse so it's really
crucial to differentiate betweenletting go of control in a
healthy way and totallyneglecting a Responsibility and
accountability for things inyour life like you don't want to
be a doormat You know, for otherpeople, and you also
Jess (27:57):
don't want to set people up, right?
Randi (27:59):
It's not let them, beat me up.
It's not, let them, financially,abuse my bank account.
It's not these things.
This is so just letting, smallthings go.
Jess (28:10):
Yeah.
Let small things go and let themstart to learn and take control.
Randi (28:13):
So again, how do you think this theory can help in a
workplace environment?
Jess (28:18):
I still think this is going to help reduce stress by
allowing other individuals tofocus on their own contributions
and reactions rather thangetting overly involved in the
workplace dynamics or evenconflicts.
I always say If we're sittingaround a conference table and
there is some project thatnobody wants to do, and if
you're the one that's alwaysgoing, I'll take it, fine, I'll
(28:41):
take it.
If you just let them and you'dstay quiet for like another five
minutes, somebody else is goingto jump in.
You don't have to be the onethat always jumps up because
nobody immediately saysanything.
Let them.
And if nobody jumps up, letwhoever asked, let them figure
out what to do next.
Because otherwise you get allthe shitty projects.
It's true.
Somebody's gonna jump up andthen get that one.
(29:02):
I don't want it.
Randi (29:04):
Not it.
Jess (29:05):
Not it.
All right.
Where can I learn more aboutthis theory, Randy?
Randi (29:08):
Look into Mel Robbins books or similar authors who
discuss themes of empowermentand self regulation and
boundaries.
There's online resources.
There's more podcasts.
There's even workshops, usuallylocally.
We will link what we can on thewebsite.
Okay.
And just find those practicaltips that can help you approach
(29:29):
this, and adopt this style inyour life if you find that
you're struggling with it.
Jess (29:33):
Exactly.
Start looking for it.
Google it.
Go to TikTok.
All the young kids are doing it.
They know so much more aboutmental health than us, I swear.
Okay, so the let them theory isa really powerful tool for
reclaiming your energy andmental well being.
It is about releasing the needfor control so that you can
focus on what really matters inyour life, which is your own
(29:57):
growth and happiness.
Randi (30:00):
Letting them is not about apathy.
It's about acceptance.
It's about trusting that otherscan handle their own lives and
that you are enough just the wayyou are and they're enough just
the way that they are.
Jess (30:14):
Wow.
That's actually really cool.
I like that.
I really like that.
So thank you for joining ustoday on the Women's Mental
Health Podcast.
If this episode spoke to you oryou would like to share it with
somebody because you think theyneed to let them as well, share
it, like us, and just reallyjust keep listening.
Randi (30:34):
Until next time, take care of yourselves and let them.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!