October 30, 2024 • 28 mins
Have you ever felt belittled, ignored, or isolated at work? You're not alone. In this empowering episode of 'Women's Mental Health Podcast,' we tackle the tough topic of workplace bullying and how to confront it with dignity and strength. Join Randi Owsley, LMSW, and Jessica Bullwinkle, LMFT, as they guide us through role-play scenarios designed to reclaim our power, touching on assertiveness training, creating safer workspaces, and healing after abuse. Whether you're struggling to find your voice against a workplace bully or seeking strategies for coping with workplace stress, this episode is a beacon of hope and solidarity. Let's navigate the murky waters of office harassment together, transforming from victim to victor.
This podcast goes along with our previous podcast "Silence the Bully, Amplify Your Voice: Empowerment at Work"
This was a special request from one of our listeners. Listeners we hear you!
#ProtectYourPeaceNow #EmotionalWellnessMatters #FindYourInnerCalm #PrioritizeYourMentalHealth #HealthyBoundariesHappierLife #StressManagementStrategies #AnxietyReliefTips #ResilienceBuildingJourney #MindfulnessMatters #SelfCareEmpowerment
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The Women’s Mental Health Podcast, hosted by licensed therapists Randi Owsley MSW and Jessica Bullwinkle LMFT, PMH-C, offers educational and entertaining mental health content. This is not therapy or a substitute for professional care. No therapeutic relationship is formed by listening or engaging. Some links may be affiliate links, which may earn us a small commission at no extra cost to you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess (00:00):
Today, we're doing something a little bit
(00:02):
different.
We had a special request fromone of our listeners who had
asked us to role play how todeal with a workplace bully.
And you know what?
I loved it.
I loved, loved getting thatemail.
It was so awesome because I'mlike, Oh my God, somebody really
is listening to us.
they wanted us, they loved us.
There are
Randi (00:20):
thousands of people that listen to us.
But yeah, but it makes it morereal when we do hear from our
listeners okay, this isresonating, with them.
It did.
And
Jess (00:28):
honestly, the listener was like, I love everything, but I
hated this episode because, youdidn't tell me how to really
deal with it.
And I was like, we did and Iloved it.
So I'm like, all right,listener.
Here you go.
We are going to do some roleplaying this time on how to deal
with a workplace bully.
And this can go anywhere in yourlife, but we are going to focus
this on the workplace bully.
Randi (00:49):
So find us and more information on the women's
mental health podcast.
And we are going to go throughseveral role playing scenarios
designed to help women practicedealing with workplace bullying,
along with examples, responsesthat encourage assertiveness and
boundary setting.
while being professional.
Jess (01:10):
Yeah, you can't punch him in the throat like I want to
tell you to do.
You can't do a karate chop atwork, okay?
So these are going to be somepractical ways to respond when
you are facing somebody at workwho is a bully.
And really I want you listenersto listen to see if you can tell
who the bully is and And how theother person responds.
I'm going to see if we can, wecan rotate to be a bully and not
(01:30):
a bully and not make me crybecause I get frustrated in
these kind of things sometimes.
So don't
Randi (01:35):
make me cry, Randy.
And she cries when she'sfrustrated, though.
Jess (01:38):
Randy cries all the time, but I just cry when I'm
frustrated.
Okay.
Scenario number one, we're goingto talk about the undermining
colleague, the person who isalways trying to make you look
dumb, trying to get under yourskin, trying to make your work
look like it's petty or thatyou're unimportant.
Okay,
Randi (01:58):
Jessica, you didn't include the right figures in
that report again.
I guess we'll have to fix itlike we always do with your
work.
Jess (02:05):
So again, I can't punch her in the throat.
And I can't call her a bitch,
Randi (02:10):
but she is in her,
Jess (02:12):
I am my head.
You can do whatever you want inyour head, but put a smile.
So
Randi (02:15):
stay calm and stay assertive.
Jess (02:17):
Exactly.
Randy, actually, I doublechecked my figures before I
submitted the report.
If there's a mistake, I'd behappy to review it with you and
we can correct it together.
Randi (02:27):
No, I don't have time for that.
Just try not to mess it upagain.
Jess (02:31):
Again, Randy, it's important to me that we get this
right.
So if there's an issue with mywork, I'd like to go over it so
one, I can improve and two, Ican see where the
miscommunication is and what theexpectations are.
Let's go ahead and schedule atime so we can review it.
Randi (02:47):
Okay, so Jess gave a very calm but firm response to the
kind of snippy response that Iwas giving her.
The goal here is to not let thebully push you into acting
emotionally and feelingdefensive.
Jess (03:04):
Not nah, my numbers are right.
Yeah.
No, I did them right.
Randi (03:07):
I did that.
Like, why are you questioningme?
You always question me.
You never
Jess (03:11):
like my work.
That would be defensive.
Randi (03:12):
Yeah.
And instead, she took ownershipof her work.
Mm hmm.
That she wanted to make.
She found value in it.
She wanted to make sure it wasright.
And trying to find the issue ifthere really was one, even
though she knows deep down thereisn't.
But, we all make mistakes andmaybe there is a
Jess (03:28):
number wrong and I'd like to go ahead and fix it.
So why don't we meet to do it?
so if you can respond and thenhold them accountable to the,
well, let's go ahead and talkand let's schedule a time now.
And she's setting that that'sthe
Randi (03:40):
expectation, right?
That she wants the feedback tobe constructive, positive, and
specific.
Jess (03:48):
So let's do another scenario.
Number two, the overbearingsupervisor.
I need you to finish the reportby the end of the day.
Oh, and I also need you to coverfor your other colleague who is
out.
And also, by the way, we don'thave any overtime pay for
staying late.
So please get all of this doneor just don't clock it.
Randi (04:08):
I can finish the report by the end of the day, but with
my current workload, I won't beable to.
Take on any additional tasks.
Can we discuss priorities so Ican meet your expectations
without sacrificing the qualityof my own work?
Well, it all needs to get done.
So just figure it out.
I understand the urgency, but Ican only take on what's
(04:30):
realistic within my workinghours.
Jess (04:32):
Ooh, and that's key right there, guys.
Randi (04:35):
If this is a priority, I'll need to delegate some of my
other tasks to
Jess (04:41):
Oh, that was good.
That is so good.
Cause what you're doing there issetting a boundary saying, I
will not be staying late.
Randi (04:49):
You will not not be paying me.
Jess (04:50):
And it's a very firm boundary where you are
communicating your workloadsaying, I cannot get all of this
done.
If this is a priority, thenfine, but this will have to go
to somebody else.
We're
Randi (05:02):
communicating that this is a priority over this.
And that it's not all gonna getdone because that's not
realistic.
No matter what you think Ishould just should do
Jess (05:12):
and then when your boss says figure it out Well, you're
not paid for that.
Your boss is paid for that.
You're
Randi (05:17):
my manager or my boss You're supposed to be figuring
this out.
You're supposed to be managingthe schedule.
You're getting the managementpay.
Yeah, so no
Jess (05:25):
So now let's talk about the gossiping co worker again.
You can't punch her in thethroat
Randi (05:29):
Daydream about it though, but yeah.
Okay.
Jess, did you hear what happenedat the meeting yesterday?
I can't believe how clueless.
Oh, I see you put my name.
Okay.
Let's start over.
Cause yes.
Don't block me.
I did put Randy's name in there.
(05:51):
Randy that bitch, she's alwayscausing trouble.
Okay.
Wait, the gossiping coworker.
Okay, let's do it again.
Okay.
Did you hear what happened inthe meeting yesterday?
I can't believe how cluelessthat girl was about the
presentation.
She's always so lost.
Jess (06:06):
Ooh, and all she wants to do is get you to talk about this
by the way.
Okay.
So I'm going to respond in avery calm and direct way.
I'd appreciate it.
If we could keep theconversation professional, if
you have any concerns about mywork, I'm open to feedback, but
I prefer that we address itDirectly rather than through
gossip.
(06:27):
Oh, I was just joking.
No need to be so sensitive.
I Understand.
However, those comments cancreate a negative environment.
I'd prefer we keep ourdiscussion supportive and
constructive Now I do want tosay doing this is very very
direct mm
Randi (06:44):
hmm
Jess (06:45):
and I think there's another way we could do this.
So I want to do another scenariowith this because sometimes
that's going to alienate theother person by saying it this
direct.
Now it's cool if you don't likethis girl and you don't want to
gossip, you've made a very clearboundary.
Randi (06:58):
Or, yeah, like I would just say I don't want to talk
about another co worker behindtheir back
Jess (07:03):
Yeah, or I might say, I'm not really sure she did seem
lost, I don't know her thatwell, so I'd rather not say
something about her because Idon't really know her and I
don't know what's going on withher.
That is another way of saying, Idon't want to talk about people.
It can be seen a little passiveaggressive, but sometimes.
It depends on how you want to doit.
And when anybody says, I wasjust joking JK, don't be so
(07:25):
sensitive.
Don't cry about it.
There's another response I wantto give to that.
But no, no, literally.
But what I'm saying is that wecan say, it's not being
sensitive.
However, what I am doing is I'mputting out expectations that I
want to be kind to people.
And so you can say that, I'm notbeing sensitive, I'm being kind
(07:47):
to people that I don't know andI don't know their situation.
Yeah, because I
Randi (07:50):
mean everybody has a bad day too, I always say, you never
know what that person is goingthrough.
It's not my place to judge.
Jess (07:57):
Oh, yeah, my, kid calls me out on it all the time.
All the time.
Oh my God.
I'm like, you cannot talk crapwith that girl.
I swear this generation, whichis actually a good thing.
Okay.
So Let's go through a criticalcolleague.
Like a,
Randi (08:08):
like a, somebody that needles you.
Ooh.
And like picks at you and stuff.
Jess (08:11):
Okay.
That idea doesn't really makeany sense.
I don't think you've thought itthrough enough.
Let's just move on.
Randi (08:17):
I appreciate your feedback, but I'd like to
explain why this idea couldwork.
If you have concerns afterwards,we can discuss them more and
make improvements.
And that is the dismissive.
Colleague.
Hmm.
So
Jess (08:31):
that's really what this one is.
Yeah, so
Randi (08:32):
they just want to dismiss you in front of others,
especially in a meetingSituation where there's other
people present and they want toshow that you are lacking in
some way And so they're tryingto come behind you and push you
and you Have a response for this
Jess (08:48):
and when they say let's move on what they've done Now is
they've just squashed you so youcan't talk and what you can say
also is well I hear what you'resaying and I appreciate your
feedback However, I have givenyou 10 minutes and now it's my
turn to do my 10 minutes So Iwould like to use my 10 minutes
in explaining why I think thismight work so there's other ways
you can respond to that, butmost of this really is being
(09:10):
assertive and calm.
Randi (09:12):
Now this is an exclusionary situation.
Somebody who is always excludingyou from things, whether like
it's work or social things Andthey're trying to isolate you.
Oh, I didn't think to invite youto the team lunch.
I figure you wouldn't beinterested.
Jess (09:26):
I'd appreciate being included in team activities
moving forward.
It is important for me that I'mpart of the group, and I'd like
to contribute both socially andprofessionally.
I'd also like to to allow me togive the choice of whether or
not I can attend or not.
So please keep inviting me, Iwould really appreciate that.
That's one way.
The other way to do it too isRandi, read that again.
Randi (09:48):
I didn't think to invite you to the team lunch.
I figured you wouldn't beinterested.
Huh.
Jess (09:54):
I find that really interesting.
Can you share with me more whyyou think I wouldn't be
interested or what I'm doingthat's coming across as
uninterested?
Because what I'm doing now iscalling them out on it to say,
the minute I say, why do youthink I'm not interested?
I pointed a finger at them andthey're going to get defensive.
Randi (2) (10:11):
Yeah.
But
Jess (10:12):
if I say,
Randi (2) (10:13):
hmm,
Jess (10:14):
that's interesting.
Can you, tell me more about whatI'm doing that makes you feel
like I'm not interested?
Because maybe I've donesomething.
You used all I
Randi (10:21):
statements.
I tried.
It's hard, but yeah.
When you try to shift it Oh,It's a way of being like,
calling them out, but in apolite way.
Jess (10:29):
Well, and it's in a way to say, because maybe I did do
something that dismissed them.
Maybe they're upset because Isaid no once because my kid was
sick, and they didn't know that.
Yeah, that's,
Randi (10:39):
that's too they might assume something about you, and
then you're taking offense overit, and maybe because you didn't
ask, and they didn't Ask eitheragain, miscommunication is
happening.
And then you're building arelationship based off of that.
And maybe it was just again,like a miscommunication, a
misunderstanding that neitherone was aware of.
Jess (11:00):
But, this way you're also
Randi (11:01):
saying, I need to be invited if it's a team.
so this is a situation where theboss is super critical and gives
very vague criticism.
So you can't really fix it oraddress it, or they're
criticizing you personally thatdoesn't have anything to do with
work, and it makes you feelincompetent.
And there's no constructivefeedback and no real like
(11:22):
solution to it.
Mm hmm.
Okay.
I don't know what's wrong withyou lately, but your work is
just not up to par.
I'm open to feedback and want toimprove.
Could you clarify which specificareas of my work need attention
so I can address them directly?
Jess (11:38):
Oh, I like that because you've gone through and said,
Which area?
Yeah.
So tell me where.
You can't just say I'm all shit.
Randi (11:44):
Cause there's gotta be something.
Jess (11:46):
You're always late.
You're never on time.
That's not a true statement.
Yeah.
You can't make a generalization.
Exactly.
And if there's an issue and it'snot up to par, what exactly is
up to par?
Randi (11:56):
What does that mean?
What are your expectations?
Again communicate.
What are your expectations?
This is what I have maybe in mycontract or written down or what
we've discussed before.
Has that changed?
Have your expectations changed?
Can you let me know so I canmake sure I am meeting those
expectations?
Or how do I need to shift thingsin my work environment so that I
(12:18):
can meet those expectations orthis workload?
Jess (12:21):
Exactly.
All right, so this next scenariothis is a supervisor who is
constantly micromanaging you,questioning every decision, and
really, again, nitpicking everysmall error in a very
unproductive way, making youfeel incapable of doing your job
well.
Why
Randi (12:40):
did you choose this method?
I'm not sure you know whatyou're doing at all.
Jess (12:44):
Oof.
The minute she said, why did youchoose this method?
I immediately got defensivebecause it's calling me out like
that.
Like why?
Immediately my body was like,oof.
Okay.
I'm confident in the approachI've taken based upon the
project's needs.
If there's a different way you'dprefer, I'd be happy to discuss
it.
So we are aligned movingforward.
(13:05):
That is a very confident, I'mgood with this, what's wrong?
Randi (2) (13:08):
Mm hmm.
Jess (13:09):
I don't see anything wrong with this.
Yeah
Randi (13:11):
again saying oh What are the expectations?
I thought it was a B and C andthis is what I have Why are you
saying this doesn't meet that,
Jess (13:20):
So this is responding in a way that is not defensive.
Because the minute you getdefensive, they have won.
Yeah.
And they are That's what they'relooking for.
They're looking for it becauseThey're looking for
Randi (13:30):
any emotional That they gotta Yes.
And they're annoying you andthey're thriving off of that
negative feedback you're givingthem.
And so you want to stay centeredand not let them agitate you.
Jess (13:45):
Exactly.
And honestly, I also want you tolook at your body language when
you're getting that way.
Yeah,
Randi (13:50):
because that can convey a lot.
Jess (13:51):
Yeah.
If you are crossing your arms oryou're crossing all of your
body, you're pushing away, thatis like a protective thing.
And so we want to have open
Randi (14:01):
language.
Communication is body language.
I don't know.
It's 70 percent or something.
It's huge.
It's huge.
It's why
Jess (14:08):
during COVID.
Babies were having a hard timereading facial expressions
because people were wearingmasks
Randi (2) (14:14):
And they
Jess (14:15):
found that was a milestone kids were not having is because
they weren't able to read it Andthey didn't get the smiles,
which I thought was interesting.
Okay, so let's do the nextscenario
Randi (14:24):
So this is somebody that's manipulative in your work
environment They constantly aremaybe taking credit for your
work, especially in front ofHigher ups or your, we all know
those people.
Yeah.
They're trying to climb theladder at your expense and they
make it seem like theircontributions are more valuable
than yours.
Jess (14:45):
We did a great job on that project.
I made sure everything alignedperfectly with the company's
goals.
It turned out fantastic.
I'm glad
Randi (14:54):
you brought up the project.
I handled the design and theexecution of the key elements,
which I'd be happy to discuss inmore detail with the team.
Taken back.
Jess (15:04):
Oh, I love that.
That's like those group projectsin college.
Randi (15:08):
Yeah, and calling out specifically what you did, you
So that there is no
Jess (15:14):
room for error in that.
And you also are saying, I, Ihandled the design and execution
of the key elements.
That is great because the otherperson said, I, and so you are,
you're literally taking it backsaying, yes, I did this.
And so that way you can callwhat you did.
And I think that's wonderful.
Randi (15:34):
And, and I love that because, Usually the person who
is expecting the other personnot to say anything.
And so then if they're calledout Oh, well, what did you
contribute to the design?
And they have no idea becausethey didn't do it.
Yeah, no, they're that kid thatsays, I'm going to be in your
group and doesn't show up.
Okay.
So this is somebody thatintimidates in a power position.
(15:57):
So like a supervisor or a bossand they're using intimidation
tactics, like raising theirvoice.
making veiled or vague threatsabout your job security because
they feel like it's going tokeep you in line.
If you don't step up, we'll haveto talk about your future here.
Jess (16:14):
Oof.
I take my work seriously and I'mcommitted to improving.
If there are specific areas Ineed to work on, I'd like to
have a constructive conversationso I can address them and meet
expectations.
Randi (16:25):
Boom.
Constructive
Jess (16:27):
conversation.
Randi (16:27):
And those are your
Jess (16:29):
expectations.
And that is a direct line andthey may not like it and that's
okay.
Because what you did was youhave called them out on what it
is.
And you can also respond inanother way saying, I hear what
you're saying, however, I needmore details about where you
would like me to step up becauseI feel that these areas that I'm
(16:52):
working in, I'm meetingexpectations, however, if there
is something different, pleaselet's address these.
Randi (16:58):
Yeah.
And can we also talk about myfuture here?
What does that look like?
When am I getting my raise?
Really?
Are, do you really see, me,growing here and a future here
or you can, gosh, you can say,
Jess (17:10):
I'm so glad you brought that up.
This is passive aggressive.
I'm so glad you brought that up.
I really would like to talkabout my future here.
I really love it here.
I want to continue.
And I think it's time for me tolook at the areas that you'd
like me to work on and the raysthat's going to go along with
that.
Oh, yes.
There are ways to do that.
(17:31):
Now that's a little bit morepassive aggressive and
sometimes.
I will say, I actually saidthis, I say
Randi (17:35):
that's assertive,
Jess (17:37):
but yeah, maybe it's aggressive, aggressive.
I don't know.
I did actually have thisconversation on the way over
here today that with a friend ofmine that I said, I will tell
people this is what thetherapist says.
However, if you're asking whatyour therapist would say, I
might say it this way andsometimes I will do things
depending on the situation.
I will take it that way, butnormally I try to put it back on
(17:58):
the other person that sayssomething like, Well, I'm not
sure what you're talking aboutexactly.
Can you please explain to me theareas in more depth that you
would like me to step up in?
Yeah.
Because I want to put it back onthem.
Randi (18:11):
Yeah.
Because usually it is very offhanded, flippant comments.
That are, they're doing it justbecause they're using it as a
tactic or they're not caring.
Yeah.
And so that really makes themhave to pause and think oh shit,
what am I doing?
How am I talking?
How is this being perceived Sothis one is silent treatment,
(18:33):
which is silent.
That's a strong form of abuse.
This happens a lot inrelationships too.
Jess (18:38):
Stonewalling.
Randi (18:38):
Yeah.
And so a coworker or a managermaybe ignores you or avoids you
or withholds information fromyou that might like harm like
your job or your ability to moveup.
Jess (18:50):
She's currently silently refusing to answer any of my
questions I've answered.
So this is what I would say.
Hey, Randi, I noticed there'sbeen a lack of communication
recently, and it's really makingit difficult for me to do my
job.
I'd appreciate if we couldimprove communication so that
we're working togethereffectively.
Randi (2) (19:07):
Hmm.
Jess (19:08):
That's one way to do it.
Another way I could respond is,Randi, I noticed there seems to
be something going on right nowwith our communication.
I'm not really sure what it is.
I'd like to talk about itbecause it feels like I am not
getting all the information Ineed in order for me to do my
job successfully.
Have I said or done somethingthat has upset you or has shown
(19:32):
or makes you think I'm notcapable of doing this job?
I'd like to communicate that sowe can work on this because I do
take my job seriously.
So now I've called you outtwice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're not talking to me.
Why are you withholdinginformation?
And there are other ways ofdoing that.
Randi (2) (19:49):
Hmm.
Jess (19:50):
Oh, and the most fun one public humiliation.
She's making faces.
Okay.
Somebody is criticizing you infront of others in front of a
meeting.
They're belittling you or yourwork.
And they're really just showingthat you're not very smart is
what they're trying to say.
You are not smart and they'redoing it in front of.
Everybody.
This is like men mansplainingand they try to talk over you.
(20:13):
Oh, oh, that drives me crazy.
Okay.
She just rolled her eyes.
Okay.
This report is a disaster.
I'm not sure why I even trustedyou to handle it.
Randi (20:22):
I'd prefer that we handle feedback privately so I can
address my issues with youconstructively.
I'd like to go over the reportwith you to understand what can
be improved.
Jess (20:33):
I like that.
Okay I'm wondering if there'salso another way we can respond
to that when somebody'sbelittling you in public, like
in a meeting, to say, do youthink it'd be appropriate to
say, I'm going to interrupt youhere for a second.
And I literally have my handoutbecause I want the physical and
the word.
I'm going to interrupt you herefor a second.
I'm not sure what is being said,however, my report was done
(20:56):
correctly.
And I would like to go over thatwith you.
If there are any issues I'mhappy to talk, talk to you about
that in a different scenario orafter the meeting, I don't feel
that this is an appropriateplace to have that conversation.
That is actually being directand calling him out.
Randi (2) (21:11):
Yeah.
Jess (21:12):
Your way is a little nicer, so it depends on whether
or not this person is going tostop you or not.
What would you do, Randi?
I would
Randi (21:19):
say that I don't agree with that assessment, and I
would appreciate us sitting downand going over the report line
by line if there are anydiscrepancies, so I can fix the
issue.
Okay.
Done.
Yeah, we're gonna call you guysout.
So More tips for responding likewe mentioned before.
Jess (21:39):
Don't punch them in the throat.
Randi (21:40):
Don't punch them in the throat.
No karate chops.
No karate chops.
Stay calm.
Stay composed.
This disarms, like sometimes itfeels okay, we're like shutting
down.
We're pushing it down.
We're not being true toourselves.
We're not letting our emotionsout.
We're not
Jess (21:57):
yelling at them and telling them to fuck off.
Yeah.
Randi (21:59):
But this really disarms the bully.
So if you think about it thatway, that you're putting this
tool in your arsenal and it'sgoing to throw them off of their
bullying game and that it keepsthe conversation productive, and
then it's going to help yourlong term goals and work
environment stay positive.
(22:19):
You can shift your mindset bythe way that you think about it.
Jess (22:22):
It's not being weak by not yelling back at them.
What it is doing is showing howpowerful you really are.
Yeah, because you are being calmand you are being centered And
you are saying that is incorrectOr you're saying let's go ahead
and take a look at it
Randi (22:37):
And I feel like eventually too if you respond
that way Other people are goingto see the way that they are
bullying and responding Andeventually too that will come to
light Also, too, go to HR, ifyou need to.
Yeah.
Jess (22:51):
Also, set your boundaries.
The thing is the whole you'renot going to work late.
You're not going to work past 430, whatever that is, set your
boundaries, be polite, butfirmly assert what is, or isn't
going to work for you and yourenvironment.
And if somebody continues to,insist that you work till eight
o'clock every night and you'renot going to, And they're not
going to listen to yourboundaries.
(23:12):
Again, either that is aconversation that you take up
the chain.
Maybe it is not the job for youbecause they did not say that in
your contract, or maybe this istheir expectation and it's
unrealistic because they'reputting their stuff on you.
So just set your boundaries.
Randi (23:27):
Another thing is to document, document your
interactions, put it on acalendar and a planner, keep
records of these instances, whatthey said, what happened, who
was there.
Yeah, who was there?
If anybody saw it or heard it?
So if it escalates, you havedocumentation and dates of when
these things happened.
(23:48):
And then when you do need to, orif you need to, involve HR or
management.
You can show that this behaviorhas happened, there's a pattern,
it's persistent, and so it canbe addressed, formally, and then
you have remembered, exactlywhat has happened, because
sometimes it's easy to forget,and you're like, did I imagine
(24:10):
it?
Did they really talk that way tome?
I don't, and then you can belike, oh, wow, Like they did.
This is I even just told this toa friend who was in a situation
where like somebody was talkingnegatively to them.
And I said, document it becausesometimes you forget like the
way people talk to you and treatyou.
(24:30):
And then you're kind of like,Oh, like maybe it wasn't like as
bad as I thought.
And then I'll be like, go backand read my journal from five
years ago.
And Oh, this is why I cut thatperson off.
No, like they're horrible.
Like the things that they sayand do that's not okay.
But sometimes we're kind oflike,
Randi (2) (24:45):
Oh, maybe it wasn't like
Jess (24:48):
that.
And also what Randy had saidearlier is go to HR, go to
management, go to your boss, askif it continues, ask for some
help, ask for eitherintervention, ask for advice,
figure out.
When you do go and seek supporteither, like I said, from HR or
friends, go and see what can bedone or what their
recommendations are.
(25:08):
Because sometimes this ishappening to several people.
I had a neighbor, this is yearsago, in my condo, and the
neighbor's mom was actually inhospice upstairs.
And I knew this because she hadtold me.
And the lady that liveddownstairs from her came up to
me one day and was like, Oh, sheis so awful.
She came down and yelled at meand dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
(25:30):
And I said I am so sorry thatthat happened to you.
I said, her mom's upstairs andshe's dying right now.
I don't think she told you that.
I said, I know she's strugglingwith this.
And I said, I think the noisewas really disruptive because
her mom is in the living roomright now.
And the girl that liveddownstairs was like, Oh my God,
I didn't know that.
She didn't say anything.
And I said, I know.
(25:50):
You don't know her that well.
And then she actually went andapologized to her and said, I'm
so sorry.
I didn't know.
And they became really goodfriends.
Randi (2) (25:58):
And so
Jess (25:58):
sometimes when you get a different perspective of what
that person is going through, wedon't all respond greatly in
those situations, but she tookit off and it was great.
They became really good friendsafter that because she was like,
I thank you for letting me knowis what she said.
I didn't handle that correctly.
And so it was actually, it was agood thing.
Yeah, that's cool.
So sometimes when you getsupport, you can go, Oh, this is
(26:20):
what's going on.
Maybe I can give them grace ormaybe I can talk with them about
it or talk differently about it.
Yeah, you can
Randi (26:26):
see another perspective of it.
Exactly.
So we hope that these scenarioshave helped you learn how to
respond with assertiveness whilebeing able to set boundaries in
a professional atmosphere.
Jess (26:37):
And listener who wrote us, I hope this helped you and I
hope you're not disappointed inus on this episode.
I really want you to email usback and let us know.
Did we hit the scenario?
I really want to know.
And honestly, part of me goes,if we didn't, We might have you
just do a face to face with usvia Zoom.
Yeah, so we can see.
So we can see what your scenariois, and so we can walk you
(26:59):
through it.
Yeah.
I would love to do that.
All right.
Goodbye, guys.
Today, we're doing something a little bit
(00:02):
different.
We had a special request fromone of our listeners who had
asked us to role play how todeal with a workplace bully.
And you know what?
I loved it.
I loved, loved getting thatemail.
It was so awesome because I'mlike, Oh my God, somebody really
is listening to us.
they wanted us, they loved us.
There are
Randi (00:20):
thousands of people that listen to us.
But yeah, but it makes it morereal when we do hear from our
listeners okay, this isresonating, with them.
It did.
And
Jess (00:28):
honestly, the listener was like, I love everything, but I
hated this episode because, youdidn't tell me how to really
deal with it.
And I was like, we did and Iloved it.
So I'm like, all right,listener.
Here you go.
We are going to do some roleplaying this time on how to deal
with a workplace bully.
And this can go anywhere in yourlife, but we are going to focus
this on the workplace bully.
Randi (00:49):
So find us and more information on the women's
mental health podcast.
And we are going to go throughseveral role playing scenarios
designed to help women practicedealing with workplace bullying,
along with examples, responsesthat encourage assertiveness and
boundary setting.
while being professional.
Jess (01:10):
Yeah, you can't punch him in the throat like I want to
tell you to do.
You can't do a karate chop atwork, okay?
So these are going to be somepractical ways to respond when
you are facing somebody at workwho is a bully.
And really I want you listenersto listen to see if you can tell
who the bully is and And how theother person responds.
I'm going to see if we can, wecan rotate to be a bully and not
(01:30):
a bully and not make me crybecause I get frustrated in
these kind of things sometimes.
So don't
Randi (01:35):
make me cry, Randy.
And she cries when she'sfrustrated, though.
Jess (01:38):
Randy cries all the time, but I just cry when I'm
frustrated.
Okay.
Scenario number one, we're goingto talk about the undermining
colleague, the person who isalways trying to make you look
dumb, trying to get under yourskin, trying to make your work
look like it's petty or thatyou're unimportant.
Okay,
Randi (01:58):
Jessica, you didn't include the right figures in
that report again.
I guess we'll have to fix itlike we always do with your
work.
Jess (02:05):
So again, I can't punch her in the throat.
And I can't call her a bitch,
Randi (02:10):
but she is in her,
Jess (02:12):
I am my head.
You can do whatever you want inyour head, but put a smile.
So
Randi (02:15):
stay calm and stay assertive.
Jess (02:17):
Exactly.
Randy, actually, I doublechecked my figures before I
submitted the report.
If there's a mistake, I'd behappy to review it with you and
we can correct it together.
Randi (02:27):
No, I don't have time for that.
Just try not to mess it upagain.
Jess (02:31):
Again, Randy, it's important to me that we get this
right.
So if there's an issue with mywork, I'd like to go over it so
one, I can improve and two, Ican see where the
miscommunication is and what theexpectations are.
Let's go ahead and schedule atime so we can review it.
Randi (02:47):
Okay, so Jess gave a very calm but firm response to the
kind of snippy response that Iwas giving her.
The goal here is to not let thebully push you into acting
emotionally and feelingdefensive.
Jess (03:04):
Not nah, my numbers are right.
Yeah.
No, I did them right.
Randi (03:07):
I did that.
Like, why are you questioningme?
You always question me.
You never
Jess (03:11):
like my work.
That would be defensive.
Randi (03:12):
Yeah.
And instead, she took ownershipof her work.
Mm hmm.
That she wanted to make.
She found value in it.
She wanted to make sure it wasright.
And trying to find the issue ifthere really was one, even
though she knows deep down thereisn't.
But, we all make mistakes andmaybe there is a
Jess (03:28):
number wrong and I'd like to go ahead and fix it.
So why don't we meet to do it?
so if you can respond and thenhold them accountable to the,
well, let's go ahead and talkand let's schedule a time now.
And she's setting that that'sthe
Randi (03:40):
expectation, right?
That she wants the feedback tobe constructive, positive, and
specific.
Jess (03:48):
So let's do another scenario.
Number two, the overbearingsupervisor.
I need you to finish the reportby the end of the day.
Oh, and I also need you to coverfor your other colleague who is
out.
And also, by the way, we don'thave any overtime pay for
staying late.
So please get all of this doneor just don't clock it.
Randi (04:08):
I can finish the report by the end of the day, but with
my current workload, I won't beable to.
Take on any additional tasks.
Can we discuss priorities so Ican meet your expectations
without sacrificing the qualityof my own work?
Well, it all needs to get done.
So just figure it out.
I understand the urgency, but Ican only take on what's
(04:30):
realistic within my workinghours.
Jess (04:32):
Ooh, and that's key right there, guys.
Randi (04:35):
If this is a priority, I'll need to delegate some of my
other tasks to
Jess (04:41):
Oh, that was good.
That is so good.
Cause what you're doing there issetting a boundary saying, I
will not be staying late.
Randi (04:49):
You will not not be paying me.
Jess (04:50):
And it's a very firm boundary where you are
communicating your workloadsaying, I cannot get all of this
done.
If this is a priority, thenfine, but this will have to go
to somebody else.
We're
Randi (05:02):
communicating that this is a priority over this.
And that it's not all gonna getdone because that's not
realistic.
No matter what you think Ishould just should do
Jess (05:12):
and then when your boss says figure it out Well, you're
not paid for that.
Your boss is paid for that.
You're
Randi (05:17):
my manager or my boss You're supposed to be figuring
this out.
You're supposed to be managingthe schedule.
You're getting the managementpay.
Yeah, so no
Jess (05:25):
So now let's talk about the gossiping co worker again.
You can't punch her in thethroat
Randi (05:29):
Daydream about it though, but yeah.
Okay.
Jess, did you hear what happenedat the meeting yesterday?
I can't believe how clueless.
Oh, I see you put my name.
Okay.
Let's start over.
Cause yes.
Don't block me.
I did put Randy's name in there.
(05:51):
Randy that bitch, she's alwayscausing trouble.
Okay.
Wait, the gossiping coworker.
Okay, let's do it again.
Okay.
Did you hear what happened inthe meeting yesterday?
I can't believe how cluelessthat girl was about the
presentation.
She's always so lost.
Jess (06:06):
Ooh, and all she wants to do is get you to talk about this
by the way.
Okay.
So I'm going to respond in avery calm and direct way.
I'd appreciate it.
If we could keep theconversation professional, if
you have any concerns about mywork, I'm open to feedback, but
I prefer that we address itDirectly rather than through
gossip.
(06:27):
Oh, I was just joking.
No need to be so sensitive.
I Understand.
However, those comments cancreate a negative environment.
I'd prefer we keep ourdiscussion supportive and
constructive Now I do want tosay doing this is very very
direct mm
Randi (06:44):
hmm
Jess (06:45):
and I think there's another way we could do this.
So I want to do another scenariowith this because sometimes
that's going to alienate theother person by saying it this
direct.
Now it's cool if you don't likethis girl and you don't want to
gossip, you've made a very clearboundary.
Randi (06:58):
Or, yeah, like I would just say I don't want to talk
about another co worker behindtheir back
Jess (07:03):
Yeah, or I might say, I'm not really sure she did seem
lost, I don't know her thatwell, so I'd rather not say
something about her because Idon't really know her and I
don't know what's going on withher.
That is another way of saying, Idon't want to talk about people.
It can be seen a little passiveaggressive, but sometimes.
It depends on how you want to doit.
And when anybody says, I wasjust joking JK, don't be so
(07:25):
sensitive.
Don't cry about it.
There's another response I wantto give to that.
But no, no, literally.
But what I'm saying is that wecan say, it's not being
sensitive.
However, what I am doing is I'mputting out expectations that I
want to be kind to people.
And so you can say that, I'm notbeing sensitive, I'm being kind
(07:47):
to people that I don't know andI don't know their situation.
Yeah, because I
Randi (07:50):
mean everybody has a bad day too, I always say, you never
know what that person is goingthrough.
It's not my place to judge.
Jess (07:57):
Oh, yeah, my, kid calls me out on it all the time.
All the time.
Oh my God.
I'm like, you cannot talk crapwith that girl.
I swear this generation, whichis actually a good thing.
Okay.
So Let's go through a criticalcolleague.
Like a,
Randi (08:08):
like a, somebody that needles you.
Ooh.
And like picks at you and stuff.
Jess (08:11):
Okay.
That idea doesn't really makeany sense.
I don't think you've thought itthrough enough.
Let's just move on.
Randi (08:17):
I appreciate your feedback, but I'd like to
explain why this idea couldwork.
If you have concerns afterwards,we can discuss them more and
make improvements.
And that is the dismissive.
Colleague.
Hmm.
So
Jess (08:31):
that's really what this one is.
Yeah, so
Randi (08:32):
they just want to dismiss you in front of others,
especially in a meetingSituation where there's other
people present and they want toshow that you are lacking in
some way And so they're tryingto come behind you and push you
and you Have a response for this
Jess (08:48):
and when they say let's move on what they've done Now is
they've just squashed you so youcan't talk and what you can say
also is well I hear what you'resaying and I appreciate your
feedback However, I have givenyou 10 minutes and now it's my
turn to do my 10 minutes So Iwould like to use my 10 minutes
in explaining why I think thismight work so there's other ways
you can respond to that, butmost of this really is being
(09:10):
assertive and calm.
Randi (09:12):
Now this is an exclusionary situation.
Somebody who is always excludingyou from things, whether like
it's work or social things Andthey're trying to isolate you.
Oh, I didn't think to invite youto the team lunch.
I figure you wouldn't beinterested.
Jess (09:26):
I'd appreciate being included in team activities
moving forward.
It is important for me that I'mpart of the group, and I'd like
to contribute both socially andprofessionally.
I'd also like to to allow me togive the choice of whether or
not I can attend or not.
So please keep inviting me, Iwould really appreciate that.
That's one way.
The other way to do it too isRandi, read that again.
Randi (09:48):
I didn't think to invite you to the team lunch.
I figured you wouldn't beinterested.
Huh.
Jess (09:54):
I find that really interesting.
Can you share with me more whyyou think I wouldn't be
interested or what I'm doingthat's coming across as
uninterested?
Because what I'm doing now iscalling them out on it to say,
the minute I say, why do youthink I'm not interested?
I pointed a finger at them andthey're going to get defensive.
Randi (2) (10:11):
Yeah.
But
Jess (10:12):
if I say,
Randi (2) (10:13):
hmm,
Jess (10:14):
that's interesting.
Can you, tell me more about whatI'm doing that makes you feel
like I'm not interested?
Because maybe I've donesomething.
You used all I
Randi (10:21):
statements.
I tried.
It's hard, but yeah.
When you try to shift it Oh,It's a way of being like,
calling them out, but in apolite way.
Jess (10:29):
Well, and it's in a way to say, because maybe I did do
something that dismissed them.
Maybe they're upset because Isaid no once because my kid was
sick, and they didn't know that.
Yeah, that's,
Randi (10:39):
that's too they might assume something about you, and
then you're taking offense overit, and maybe because you didn't
ask, and they didn't Ask eitheragain, miscommunication is
happening.
And then you're building arelationship based off of that.
And maybe it was just again,like a miscommunication, a
misunderstanding that neitherone was aware of.
Jess (11:00):
But, this way you're also
Randi (11:01):
saying, I need to be invited if it's a team.
so this is a situation where theboss is super critical and gives
very vague criticism.
So you can't really fix it oraddress it, or they're
criticizing you personally thatdoesn't have anything to do with
work, and it makes you feelincompetent.
And there's no constructivefeedback and no real like
(11:22):
solution to it.
Mm hmm.
Okay.
I don't know what's wrong withyou lately, but your work is
just not up to par.
I'm open to feedback and want toimprove.
Could you clarify which specificareas of my work need attention
so I can address them directly?
Jess (11:38):
Oh, I like that because you've gone through and said,
Which area?
Yeah.
So tell me where.
You can't just say I'm all shit.
Randi (11:44):
Cause there's gotta be something.
Jess (11:46):
You're always late.
You're never on time.
That's not a true statement.
Yeah.
You can't make a generalization.
Exactly.
And if there's an issue and it'snot up to par, what exactly is
up to par?
Randi (11:56):
What does that mean?
What are your expectations?
Again communicate.
What are your expectations?
This is what I have maybe in mycontract or written down or what
we've discussed before.
Has that changed?
Have your expectations changed?
Can you let me know so I canmake sure I am meeting those
expectations?
Or how do I need to shift thingsin my work environment so that I
(12:18):
can meet those expectations orthis workload?
Jess (12:21):
Exactly.
All right, so this next scenariothis is a supervisor who is
constantly micromanaging you,questioning every decision, and
really, again, nitpicking everysmall error in a very
unproductive way, making youfeel incapable of doing your job
well.
Why
Randi (12:40):
did you choose this method?
I'm not sure you know whatyou're doing at all.
Jess (12:44):
Oof.
The minute she said, why did youchoose this method?
I immediately got defensivebecause it's calling me out like
that.
Like why?
Immediately my body was like,oof.
Okay.
I'm confident in the approachI've taken based upon the
project's needs.
If there's a different way you'dprefer, I'd be happy to discuss
it.
So we are aligned movingforward.
(13:05):
That is a very confident, I'mgood with this, what's wrong?
Randi (2) (13:08):
Mm hmm.
Jess (13:09):
I don't see anything wrong with this.
Yeah
Randi (13:11):
again saying oh What are the expectations?
I thought it was a B and C andthis is what I have Why are you
saying this doesn't meet that,
Jess (13:20):
So this is responding in a way that is not defensive.
Because the minute you getdefensive, they have won.
Yeah.
And they are That's what they'relooking for.
They're looking for it becauseThey're looking for
Randi (13:30):
any emotional That they gotta Yes.
And they're annoying you andthey're thriving off of that
negative feedback you're givingthem.
And so you want to stay centeredand not let them agitate you.
Jess (13:45):
Exactly.
And honestly, I also want you tolook at your body language when
you're getting that way.
Yeah,
Randi (13:50):
because that can convey a lot.
Jess (13:51):
Yeah.
If you are crossing your arms oryou're crossing all of your
body, you're pushing away, thatis like a protective thing.
And so we want to have open
Randi (14:01):
language.
Communication is body language.
I don't know.
It's 70 percent or something.
It's huge.
It's huge.
It's why
Jess (14:08):
during COVID.
Babies were having a hard timereading facial expressions
because people were wearingmasks
Randi (2) (14:14):
And they
Jess (14:15):
found that was a milestone kids were not having is because
they weren't able to read it Andthey didn't get the smiles,
which I thought was interesting.
Okay, so let's do the nextscenario
Randi (14:24):
So this is somebody that's manipulative in your work
environment They constantly aremaybe taking credit for your
work, especially in front ofHigher ups or your, we all know
those people.
Yeah.
They're trying to climb theladder at your expense and they
make it seem like theircontributions are more valuable
than yours.
Jess (14:45):
We did a great job on that project.
I made sure everything alignedperfectly with the company's
goals.
It turned out fantastic.
I'm glad
Randi (14:54):
you brought up the project.
I handled the design and theexecution of the key elements,
which I'd be happy to discuss inmore detail with the team.
Taken back.
Jess (15:04):
Oh, I love that.
That's like those group projectsin college.
Randi (15:08):
Yeah, and calling out specifically what you did, you
So that there is no
Jess (15:14):
room for error in that.
And you also are saying, I, Ihandled the design and execution
of the key elements.
That is great because the otherperson said, I, and so you are,
you're literally taking it backsaying, yes, I did this.
And so that way you can callwhat you did.
And I think that's wonderful.
Randi (15:34):
And, and I love that because, Usually the person who
is expecting the other personnot to say anything.
And so then if they're calledout Oh, well, what did you
contribute to the design?
And they have no idea becausethey didn't do it.
Yeah, no, they're that kid thatsays, I'm going to be in your
group and doesn't show up.
Okay.
So this is somebody thatintimidates in a power position.
(15:57):
So like a supervisor or a bossand they're using intimidation
tactics, like raising theirvoice.
making veiled or vague threatsabout your job security because
they feel like it's going tokeep you in line.
If you don't step up, we'll haveto talk about your future here.
Jess (16:14):
Oof.
I take my work seriously and I'mcommitted to improving.
If there are specific areas Ineed to work on, I'd like to
have a constructive conversationso I can address them and meet
expectations.
Randi (16:25):
Boom.
Constructive
Jess (16:27):
conversation.
Randi (16:27):
And those are your
Jess (16:29):
expectations.
And that is a direct line andthey may not like it and that's
okay.
Because what you did was youhave called them out on what it
is.
And you can also respond inanother way saying, I hear what
you're saying, however, I needmore details about where you
would like me to step up becauseI feel that these areas that I'm
(16:52):
working in, I'm meetingexpectations, however, if there
is something different, pleaselet's address these.
Randi (16:58):
Yeah.
And can we also talk about myfuture here?
What does that look like?
When am I getting my raise?
Really?
Are, do you really see, me,growing here and a future here
or you can, gosh, you can say,
Jess (17:10):
I'm so glad you brought that up.
This is passive aggressive.
I'm so glad you brought that up.
I really would like to talkabout my future here.
I really love it here.
I want to continue.
And I think it's time for me tolook at the areas that you'd
like me to work on and the raysthat's going to go along with
that.
Oh, yes.
There are ways to do that.
(17:31):
Now that's a little bit morepassive aggressive and
sometimes.
I will say, I actually saidthis, I say
Randi (17:35):
that's assertive,
Jess (17:37):
but yeah, maybe it's aggressive, aggressive.
I don't know.
I did actually have thisconversation on the way over
here today that with a friend ofmine that I said, I will tell
people this is what thetherapist says.
However, if you're asking whatyour therapist would say, I
might say it this way andsometimes I will do things
depending on the situation.
I will take it that way, butnormally I try to put it back on
(17:58):
the other person that sayssomething like, Well, I'm not
sure what you're talking aboutexactly.
Can you please explain to me theareas in more depth that you
would like me to step up in?
Yeah.
Because I want to put it back onthem.
Randi (18:11):
Yeah.
Because usually it is very offhanded, flippant comments.
That are, they're doing it justbecause they're using it as a
tactic or they're not caring.
Yeah.
And so that really makes themhave to pause and think oh shit,
what am I doing?
How am I talking?
How is this being perceived Sothis one is silent treatment,
(18:33):
which is silent.
That's a strong form of abuse.
This happens a lot inrelationships too.
Jess (18:38):
Stonewalling.
Randi (18:38):
Yeah.
And so a coworker or a managermaybe ignores you or avoids you
or withholds information fromyou that might like harm like
your job or your ability to moveup.
Jess (18:50):
She's currently silently refusing to answer any of my
questions I've answered.
So this is what I would say.
Hey, Randi, I noticed there'sbeen a lack of communication
recently, and it's really makingit difficult for me to do my
job.
I'd appreciate if we couldimprove communication so that
we're working togethereffectively.
Randi (2) (19:07):
Hmm.
Jess (19:08):
That's one way to do it.
Another way I could respond is,Randi, I noticed there seems to
be something going on right nowwith our communication.
I'm not really sure what it is.
I'd like to talk about itbecause it feels like I am not
getting all the information Ineed in order for me to do my
job successfully.
Have I said or done somethingthat has upset you or has shown
(19:32):
or makes you think I'm notcapable of doing this job?
I'd like to communicate that sowe can work on this because I do
take my job seriously.
So now I've called you outtwice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're not talking to me.
Why are you withholdinginformation?
And there are other ways ofdoing that.
Randi (2) (19:49):
Hmm.
Jess (19:50):
Oh, and the most fun one public humiliation.
She's making faces.
Okay.
Somebody is criticizing you infront of others in front of a
meeting.
They're belittling you or yourwork.
And they're really just showingthat you're not very smart is
what they're trying to say.
You are not smart and they'redoing it in front of.
Everybody.
This is like men mansplainingand they try to talk over you.
(20:13):
Oh, oh, that drives me crazy.
Okay.
She just rolled her eyes.
Okay.
This report is a disaster.
I'm not sure why I even trustedyou to handle it.
Randi (20:22):
I'd prefer that we handle feedback privately so I can
address my issues with youconstructively.
I'd like to go over the reportwith you to understand what can
be improved.
Jess (20:33):
I like that.
Okay I'm wondering if there'salso another way we can respond
to that when somebody'sbelittling you in public, like
in a meeting, to say, do youthink it'd be appropriate to
say, I'm going to interrupt youhere for a second.
And I literally have my handoutbecause I want the physical and
the word.
I'm going to interrupt you herefor a second.
I'm not sure what is being said,however, my report was done
(20:56):
correctly.
And I would like to go over thatwith you.
If there are any issues I'mhappy to talk, talk to you about
that in a different scenario orafter the meeting, I don't feel
that this is an appropriateplace to have that conversation.
That is actually being directand calling him out.
Randi (2) (21:11):
Yeah.
Jess (21:12):
Your way is a little nicer, so it depends on whether
or not this person is going tostop you or not.
What would you do, Randi?
I would
Randi (21:19):
say that I don't agree with that assessment, and I
would appreciate us sitting downand going over the report line
by line if there are anydiscrepancies, so I can fix the
issue.
Okay.
Done.
Yeah, we're gonna call you guysout.
So More tips for responding likewe mentioned before.
Jess (21:39):
Don't punch them in the throat.
Randi (21:40):
Don't punch them in the throat.
No karate chops.
No karate chops.
Stay calm.
Stay composed.
This disarms, like sometimes itfeels okay, we're like shutting
down.
We're pushing it down.
We're not being true toourselves.
We're not letting our emotionsout.
We're not
Jess (21:57):
yelling at them and telling them to fuck off.
Yeah.
Randi (21:59):
But this really disarms the bully.
So if you think about it thatway, that you're putting this
tool in your arsenal and it'sgoing to throw them off of their
bullying game and that it keepsthe conversation productive, and
then it's going to help yourlong term goals and work
environment stay positive.
(22:19):
You can shift your mindset bythe way that you think about it.
Jess (22:22):
It's not being weak by not yelling back at them.
What it is doing is showing howpowerful you really are.
Yeah, because you are being calmand you are being centered And
you are saying that is incorrectOr you're saying let's go ahead
and take a look at it
Randi (22:37):
And I feel like eventually too if you respond
that way Other people are goingto see the way that they are
bullying and responding Andeventually too that will come to
light Also, too, go to HR, ifyou need to.
Yeah.
Jess (22:51):
Also, set your boundaries.
The thing is the whole you'renot going to work late.
You're not going to work past 430, whatever that is, set your
boundaries, be polite, butfirmly assert what is, or isn't
going to work for you and yourenvironment.
And if somebody continues to,insist that you work till eight
o'clock every night and you'renot going to, And they're not
going to listen to yourboundaries.
(23:12):
Again, either that is aconversation that you take up
the chain.
Maybe it is not the job for youbecause they did not say that in
your contract, or maybe this istheir expectation and it's
unrealistic because they'reputting their stuff on you.
So just set your boundaries.
Randi (23:27):
Another thing is to document, document your
interactions, put it on acalendar and a planner, keep
records of these instances, whatthey said, what happened, who
was there.
Yeah, who was there?
If anybody saw it or heard it?
So if it escalates, you havedocumentation and dates of when
these things happened.
(23:48):
And then when you do need to, orif you need to, involve HR or
management.
You can show that this behaviorhas happened, there's a pattern,
it's persistent, and so it canbe addressed, formally, and then
you have remembered, exactlywhat has happened, because
sometimes it's easy to forget,and you're like, did I imagine
(24:10):
it?
Did they really talk that way tome?
I don't, and then you can belike, oh, wow, Like they did.
This is I even just told this toa friend who was in a situation
where like somebody was talkingnegatively to them.
And I said, document it becausesometimes you forget like the
way people talk to you and treatyou.
(24:30):
And then you're kind of like,Oh, like maybe it wasn't like as
bad as I thought.
And then I'll be like, go backand read my journal from five
years ago.
And Oh, this is why I cut thatperson off.
No, like they're horrible.
Like the things that they sayand do that's not okay.
But sometimes we're kind oflike,
Randi (2) (24:45):
Oh, maybe it wasn't like
Jess (24:48):
that.
And also what Randy had saidearlier is go to HR, go to
management, go to your boss, askif it continues, ask for some
help, ask for eitherintervention, ask for advice,
figure out.
When you do go and seek supporteither, like I said, from HR or
friends, go and see what can bedone or what their
recommendations are.
(25:08):
Because sometimes this ishappening to several people.
I had a neighbor, this is yearsago, in my condo, and the
neighbor's mom was actually inhospice upstairs.
And I knew this because she hadtold me.
And the lady that liveddownstairs from her came up to
me one day and was like, Oh, sheis so awful.
She came down and yelled at meand dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
(25:30):
And I said I am so sorry thatthat happened to you.
I said, her mom's upstairs andshe's dying right now.
I don't think she told you that.
I said, I know she's strugglingwith this.
And I said, I think the noisewas really disruptive because
her mom is in the living roomright now.
And the girl that liveddownstairs was like, Oh my God,
I didn't know that.
She didn't say anything.
And I said, I know.
(25:50):
You don't know her that well.
And then she actually went andapologized to her and said, I'm
so sorry.
I didn't know.
And they became really goodfriends.
Randi (2) (25:58):
And so
Jess (25:58):
sometimes when you get a different perspective of what
that person is going through, wedon't all respond greatly in
those situations, but she tookit off and it was great.
They became really good friendsafter that because she was like,
I thank you for letting me knowis what she said.
I didn't handle that correctly.
And so it was actually, it was agood thing.
Yeah, that's cool.
So sometimes when you getsupport, you can go, Oh, this is
(26:20):
what's going on.
Maybe I can give them grace ormaybe I can talk with them about
it or talk differently about it.
Yeah, you can
Randi (26:26):
see another perspective of it.
Exactly.
So we hope that these scenarioshave helped you learn how to
respond with assertiveness whilebeing able to set boundaries in
a professional atmosphere.
Jess (26:37):
And listener who wrote us, I hope this helped you and I
hope you're not disappointed inus on this episode.
I really want you to email usback and let us know.
Did we hit the scenario?
I really want to know.
And honestly, part of me goes,if we didn't, We might have you
just do a face to face with usvia Zoom.
Yeah, so we can see.
So we can see what your scenariois, and so we can walk you
(26:59):
through it.
Yeah.
I would love to do that.
All right.
Goodbye, guys.
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