February 12, 2025 • 43 mins
Is your college-bound teen suddenly moody, defiant, or picking fights? Welcome to soiling the nest—a real and natural part of their transition to independence. In this episode of the Women’s Mental Health Podcast, licensed psychotherapists Randi Owsley, LMSW, and Jessica Bullwinkle, LMFT, break down why this happens, how it impacts your mental health, and what you can do to cope. Whether you're feeling hurt, confused, or just plain exhausted, this conversation will help you navigate the messy emotions of this stage with self-care and confidence.
While this shift can feel personal, understanding the psychology behind soiling the nest can help you navigate the emotional rollercoaster with empathy and patience. Beyond the household, this behavior also has social and economic impacts, influencing family dynamics, financial planning, and emotional well-being. Learn practical tools to manage your own emotions, strengthen your parent-child relationship, and find resources to help guide you through this transformative stage with confidence.
Whether you're a parent navigating this emotional phase at home or a business leader looking for solutions to prevent disruption in your company, we’ll provide expert insights, actionable strategies, and preventative measures to help you adapt and thrive. Stay tuned for practical tips, professional advice, and real-life examples that bring clarity to this complex topic!
Questions we answer!
Why do some teens engage in challenging behavior before leaving home?
How can I differentiate between normal teenage behavior and more serious issues?
What are some strategies for addressing challenging behavior in teens?
Should I be worried if my teen experiments with substances?
How can I support my teen's mental well-being during this challenging time?
Is it normal for my teen to distance themselves from family and spend more time with friends?
What role does autonomy play in a teen's development?
How can I prepare my teen for the challenges of leaving home?
What should I do if my teen's behavior becomes concerning or poses a danger?
How can I maintain a strong, supportive relationship with my teen during this phase?
#SoilingTheNest #TeenIndependence #ParentingTeens #EmptyNestSyndrome #TeenBehaviorExplained #ParentingChallenges #MentalHealthForMoms #CopingWithChange #FamilyDynamics #RaisingTeensRight #collegebound #collegeboundkids #CollegeBound2025 #NervousSystemSupport #ProtectYourPeaceNow #EmotionalWellnessMatters #FindYourInnerCalm #PrioritizeYourMentalHealth #HealthyBoundariesHappierLife
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The Women’s Mental Health Podcast, hosted by licensed therapists Randi Owsley MSW and Jessica Bullwinkle LMFT, PMH-C, offers educational and entertaining mental health content. This is not therapy or a substitute for professional care. No therapeutic relationship is formed by listening or engaging. Some links may be affiliate links, which may earn us a small commission at no extra cost to you.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Randi (00:00):
Welcome to the Women's Mental Health Podcast, where
(00:02):
Randy and Jess, two licensedpsychotherapists, and we talk
about women's mental health,well being and strategies for
coping with all of life'schallenges.
Jess (00:10):
And how all of this is normal.
This
Randi (00:14):
episode, we are going to try to explain teenage behavior
before leaving home and itsimpact on women's mental health,
and try to provide some insightsinto strategies for coping with
Jess (00:25):
this.
We understand that navigatingthese challenges of parenting
can be so overwhelming.
Experiencing.
X.
Especially when it comes tounderstanding why our teens are
acting out before they'regetting ready to leave.
And we're talking about thistime right now, which is second
semester of senior year.
We
Randi (00:46):
started talking about this because I was talking to
Jess about what I was goingthrough and she was like, this
is a thing.
And I was like, it is, I'm notalone in this, like, tell me
more about this.
And then she already knew aboutit.
And then I started researchingabout it and we were like, Oh my
gosh, we need to talk aboutthat.
Yeah.
So we're going to dive in andexplore this whole life phase
(01:07):
together and hopefully we canhelp support you through this.
Jess (01:11):
Okay.
So find us and more resources onwomen's mental health podcast.
com.
Have you ever had these
Randi (01:17):
thoughts?
Why do some teens engage in suchrisky or challenging behavior
right before leaving home?
Jess (01:25):
How can I tell if what my teenager is doing is normal or
if there's more serious issues?
Randi (01:31):
What are some strategies that I can use to really address
these challenging behaviors inmy teen?
Jess (01:38):
Should I worry if my teen is experiencing with substances?
Randi (01:43):
How can I support my teenager's mental well being
during this super tough
Jess (01:49):
time?
Is it normal for my teen todistance themselves from family
and spend more time either intheir room or with their friends
right now?
Randi (01:59):
And what role does autonomy play in a teen's
development?
And this is very importantbecause I have a hard time with
this, like letting go so thatthey have the choice, but giving
boundaries for them too.
And that's, that's a reallyimportant
Jess (02:12):
question.
And it is, it's so hard rightnow at this age, because you're
like, I want to give them space,but I don't want to feel like.
I'm abandoning them.
And so how do you figure outwhat you need or don't need with
them?
How can I prepare my teen forthe challenges of leaving home
and going to college?
And
Randi (02:29):
what should you do if your teenager's behavior has
really become concerning orthey're becoming a danger to
themselves or
Jess (02:36):
others?
And then how can I maintain astrong, supportive relationship
with my teen?
during this phase, especiallybecause you don't want to enable
them and you don't want toabandon them.
Right.
All of these things that happento
Randi (02:50):
keep that relationship with love.
But it's like, it's, did
Jess (02:54):
you do your damn homework?
Why am I getting another noticesaying you didn't turn something
Randi (03:00):
in?
Exactly.
Like, why are you prioritizinglike your friends over this or
your family?
And what
Jess (03:06):
do you mean you're not going to school today?
Exactly.
What, what, what are you talkingabout?
You have.
Four months to go.
Randi (03:12):
Let's do this.
We're at the finish line.
Let's not trip at the finishline.
I actually said that to mydaughter this
Jess (03:19):
week.
I had a psychology friendbecause our oldest is already
adulthood, right?
I've already, we did this phaselike eight years ago.
And at the time I had one of myfriends say they call it
shitting the nest.
And I was like, what do youmean?
And I guess that's, there's abetter way to say like spoiling
the nest.
She said, no, not what, whathe's doing is normal.
(03:40):
This is called shitting thenest.
So there's actually a group, Ican't remember the birds, but
there's these birds.
And what the babies do is theypoop all over the nest to the
point where the parents arelike, Oh, I'm out.
You're done.
You, this is, I can't do thisanymore.
You need to go.
Huh?
And that's what the teenagersare doing.
They're acting out for so manyreasons right now because
(04:01):
there's this big life changehappening.
Randi (04:03):
Yeah.
So it's this huge transition andthey're just scared and they're
fearful.
So they're acting out.
Yeah.
Jess (04:12):
And if it was easy to stay home.
They would never leave us,right?
Randi (04:17):
So they're shitting all over us.
Jess (04:19):
Yes, they're shitting in your nest Right now these
behaviors that we're talkingabout and we're kind of joking.
Okay, not going to school notturning your homework Sometimes
it's the attitude.
Oh boy.
Is it the attitude that startscoming out?
It's it's the you can't tell mewhat to do and I'm leaving.
Yeah, I'm almost an adultPushing the boundaries.
(04:40):
I'm going to do stuff with mygirlfriend or my boyfriend or
coming out a little later andlet's
Randi (04:45):
also talk about like hormones, mood swings, their own
mental health.
If they're a female PMS, likeall these things coming in to
play, their bodies are stilldeveloping to their brains are
still developing.
There's all these things thattheir brains.
Jess (05:02):
Your child's brains do not stop developing until about 23
to 25.
Their brains are still trying togrow and develop and figure
stuff out.
But our society says, you'regoing to be graduating and
you're 18.
You're an adult
Randi (05:17):
now.
Yeah.
We're like, we need to kick youout the door.
Jess (05:20):
We coddle them now.
And now we have to like, letthem go like that.
It's not even letting them go.
It's like pushing them out.
From a mental healthperspective, though, I know a
lot of these behaviors, they'reinfluenced by various factors,
like you said, the hormones andthe peer pressure.
And I know there's other thingsthat some of these kids have.
We're not talking about all thekids that have oppositional
defiant disorder or conductdisorder or depression.
(05:41):
We're talking about just rightnow, the second semester of
senior.
year.
Randi (05:48):
So really, it's about the stress and uncertainty of
transitioning into thisadulthood phase that can also
impact their mental health.
And let's be honest, ourparents, the caregivers, whether
you're a foster parent, anadoptive parent, a teacher or
two, I'm sure that they getpushed back.
(06:08):
It's really affecting Everybodyas a whole.
And this happens.
Jess (06:14):
I was so toast and I'll just share.
I was so done.
Like, I didn't know if we weregoing to make it through the end
of our senior year.
Randi (06:21):
I feel like that right now.
I want to run away.
Yes.
Like what?
Why is this happening?
I can't handle this.
Like, I thought life wassupposed to get easier.
Like, my sister has younger kidsthat are like, she has three And
she's like, does it get easier?
And I'm like, no, there's justnew challenges that are
different.
Jess (06:40):
It's just, and that's what I tell parents.
It doesn't get easier.
Like after the first year, yes,it gets
Randi (06:45):
easier.
Well, you have a betterunderstanding,
Jess (06:47):
right?
But it just gets different.
It's all hard.
And it just.
gets different.
And it's so hard when we'rewatching our kids go through
this really challengingbehavior.
And honestly, they're actinglike assholes and really, it's
so frustrating to see all thisbecause I wish I could have
(07:08):
behaved better, but I was, itwas so anxiety provoking for me
because I was like, what are wedoing?
Why are we doing this?
Randi (07:15):
Yeah.
I've been trying to like temper,like my reaction, but another
thing too is like the guilt ofit.
And then I feel like, did I dosomething wrong?
Could I have done somethingdifferent 10 years ago that
would have changed this now?
And then just bringing this up,I'm like, okay, this is normal.
This is a normal transition.
It's like teething or learningto walk or something, but yeah,
(07:36):
basically they're getting theirteeth into adulthood when
there's growing pains happening.
And so we need to beunderstanding and empathetic of
that.
And I think that's helping me.
Flip the script in my head andlike my expectations of what I
expect of my teenager as asenior leaving high school and
transitioning.
(07:58):
And part
of
Jess (07:58):
this though is really important to make sure you take
care of your mental health.
And I'm saying becauseafterwards.
After this, Randy's I have amassage.
I was like, good job.
Good job.
You need to make sure you'retaking care of yourself because
they're going to do what theydo.
And I got, we survived.
We're all three of us.
Four of us are still here.
We made it through thatchallenging time.
(08:21):
And I do, I will say, I don'tknow if we would have done it
better, but man, night ofgraduation, we're like, yeah.
You're driving, we're drinking,and we went and had martinis at
this big We're celebrating.
Yes, we had a big fancy dinner,and I was like, you're driving
us home.
Yeah.
And dad and I were like, okay,we're gonna have a martini here
because man, we made it.
We were like, oh my god, we madeit to the end of
Randi (08:43):
senior year.
You've got to prioritize, like,self care in some ways, and
Okay, so
Jess (08:48):
that's not exactly self care.
That was a celebrating, but that
Randi (08:51):
wasn't self care.
Well, okay, so celebrating selfcare, but Not that part, but
another way is really, we haveto learn how to help our
teenager cope and copeourselves.
So what does that include?
Communication?
Yes.
Open communication.
Jess (09:09):
It's not taking it personal.
That's actually the huge piece
Randi (09:13):
as parents.
And I, being ADHD, I'm verylike, I have reactive
sensitivity dysphoria, which youguys can search that up on our
website because we have talkedabout it and it's actually one
of our most popular podcasts.
So we tend to jump toconclusions.
I'm thinking of the office movieto jump to conclusion map and we
(09:34):
go straight to the emotionalside of it instead of taking a
step back and being like, what'sreally happening here?
I had a heart to heart with mydaughter to like sat down.
What's really happening here?
And then she was able.
We were both crying.
She's able to tell me what she'sfrustrated with, how she's
feeling.
And I told her how I'm feelingand why I'm reacting the way I
do and reacting out of a placeof love and wanting to support
(09:57):
her and push her, butunderstanding to maybe what I
was doing was too much becausethen she was having this.
Anxiety about not only her ownthoughts, but then my reactions
too.
And it's so
Jess (10:08):
hard because as parents, when they're little, they come
to us and we fix it.
We get a bandaid.
We do hugs.
We have the right answers whenthey're little.
At this age, we still want tofix it.
Yeah,
Randi (10:21):
but we need to teach them how to fix it for them.
Selves
Jess (10:25):
and we wanna just do it.
Like it's just, oh, I wanna wrapmy kid in bubble wrap every day
is what I say.
Mm-Hmm.
I just wanna put her in bubblewrap and protect her Always, all
my friends, everybody.
And it's just so hard becausethey have to learn some of this
stuff.
And let's face it, some of ushave kids that have to learn the
hard way.
I'm one of those.
mm-Hmm, I have to learn the hardway sometimes.
(10:47):
My kids are the same
Randi (10:48):
way.
Yeah.
And I tell my teenager too, likeI was a late bloomer.
It took me a while to get thingsgoing for myself.
Jess (10:56):
That's because you're not a late bloomer.
It's because you're ADHD, right?
Well, I learned that later.
Yeah.
We're not late bloomers.
We're just, our brands are alittle different and they
develop different.
And we do things the hard
Randi (11:08):
fucking way.
Right.
And so that's why.
Again, it's so important tocommunicate this with our kids,
teach them to communicate withus and also have boundaries,
like they need to haveboundaries with us, but we also
need to have boundaries withthem and learning to compromise
on
Jess (11:22):
that.
I wonder, Randy, if you wentthrough and you validated it
with her and you said, hey.
We just did a podcast on thisbecause we're talking about it
and this is a really normalphase to go through.
Oh, yeah.
Do you think that she would belike, oh, I'm this is normal for
me?
Randi (11:38):
like I wanted to talk to her about this because I was
gonna tell her like we did allthis research and like this is
Normal and just went through itand then you're not alone And so
your friends are probably allgoing through it and I noticed
too like I want to say this isprobably true for myself Self.
And I want to say, I noticed itwith my daughter and her friends
group.
They kind of like are pullingaway from each other a little
(11:59):
bit.
And I think that that is also aprotective thing.
Like you're losing the supportsystem and you don't have a
support system already or youdon't know what that's going to
look like and changing andthere's grief over that.
There's grief over.
Losing this phase of childhood,going
Jess (12:19):
to school every day, knowing exactly how it's going
to be laid out.
Right.
We've been doing this for 12years.
Yeah.
We pretty much know.
Randi (12:27):
And now it's all unknown.
Jess (12:29):
And the kids right now, these are kids that four years
ago.
Started school when a lot ofschools
Randi (12:36):
were shut down.
When COVID happened.
Right.
Yeah.
That was my daughter.
Her first year of high schoolwas In N Out, In N Out, In N
Out, hybrid, really mostlyonline.
So, and who knows what's goingto happen in the future.
So they have this also, we don'tknow if something could happen
again and it could throw us offcourse again.
Jess (12:56):
Exactly.
A lot of people just startedgetting a routine this last
year, maybe the year before.
We're still seeing all theseillnesses and stuff.
I'll get off my soapbox, butpeople are so sick this last
couple of months because we'restill adjusting after such a
interesting time.
And I know every state wasdifferent and everybody has
(13:16):
different beliefs.
We're not getting into that, butour kids are still not
Randi (13:21):
normal.
Mm hmm.
I think another way too thatI've had to think differently
about this is having kind ofgrowth mindset about it.
This is a period of them togrow.
This is a period of them to findthemselves.
This is a period of selfdiscovery and letting them fail.
And I like to tell my kids,we've talked about this before,
(13:43):
that it's not failing.
No, it's not failing forward.
Mistakes are part of life andyou learn so much from them.
So also reminding myself thatthese mistakes, even though I
want to protect her from them,they're essential for her
growing into who she is.
And
Jess (13:59):
let's be honest, you also want to strangle her for them.
Come on.
There are these times where wejust like, really?
And that's really, this
Randi (14:05):
is what we're doing.
It's okay.
Call your friends, your sister,your mom, bitch about it, let it
out, vent it, and then go back,talk about it, research it, and
then take care of it fromyourself.
Put on your oxygen mask first,find what you need to do to
center yourself and then go toyour kids and help them work
through it.
Yeah.
Jess (14:23):
Our oldest was just so angry.
It was.
And we were the biggest a holesever as parents.
We were holding him to the line.
This is the rule.
This is what we were doing.
Going back, I think I would havebeen a little softer.
Yeah.
A little softer, maybe, but itwas just like, we had to just
(14:43):
contain this.
Oh, and that's amazing concept,right?
Think about containment.
When we have them as babies, weliterally hold them.
Like I'm holding like an infant,my arm rocking them.
We're containing them as theyget
Randi (14:57):
older.
Swaddle them and wrap them
Jess (14:59):
up.
And then as they get older, ourcontainment field, our arms get
bigger and bigger and bigger.
So that way we can open up forthem.
And there are times in ourlives, nine, 10, whatever that
we have to close that circle andcontain them more.
And now We're telling them,peace out, wide open space, see
(15:23):
you later, you're 18, what areyou going to do?
But really, it's a time toprovide containment with them,
but to give them a little bitmore, I want to say freedom,
that's not it.
Let them make the choices or thedirection.
Randi (15:36):
Yeah, the autonomy over their
Jess (15:38):
choices.
Yeah, and be like, okay, what doyou think you want to do?
What do you think is this?
Instead of trying to fix it.
It's hard.
This is the hardest.
It's hard.
Randi (15:47):
Like Bob the Builder, I'm here, just let me tap tap and
it's gonna fix it.
Two, like teachers reach out andtheir counselors reach out.
And I have had to tell herteachers and counselors, I am
letting her figure this out onher own.
I have to step
Jess (16:01):
back.
We probably, right when they getto be like right before high
school as parents, we shouldprobably start having some of
our own life.
So many parents are so stillwrapped up in their kids that we
don't have our own hobbies.
And then what happens is we're
Randi (16:16):
friendships or support
Jess (16:18):
systems.
And then what we're worriedabout is as a parent and moms is
that they're going to leave
Randi (16:23):
us.
Yeah.
And empty nest syndrome too onthe opposite side.
It's true.
And it's also a huge time forpeople getting divorced.
Jess (16:32):
Oh yeah.
You're like, Hey, the kids areout.
I don't actually like youanymore.
I don't
Randi (16:36):
know who you are.
Yeah.
I don't know who I am either.
You have no sense of self.
That's a whole other podcast.
So when you have to createdistance too, and if you start
it earlier on, it's not as
Jess (16:49):
hard.
It's not like the slap in theface.
I'm not saying abandon them andgo get a whole hobby and new
life.
Right.
But I'm saying.
When you have been, some ofthese moms who are like, I've
been running the sports anddriving on travel teams and
we've been, you know, club andyou're like, wait, who, what,
what's my Facebook group now?
(17:09):
I think it's great if you canfind other things to do and
still support them.
Yeah.
Randi (17:14):
So here's another important point.
How do we differentiate betweenthis normal average second
semester slump and.
More serious mental healthissues.
Jess (17:26):
Ooh, I like the second semester slump.
I think it needs, yeah, yeah.
Second semester slump.
It's not even pregnancy.
It's just, oh dear gosh, here wego again.
So like normal versus.
Randi (17:38):
When it's concerning, when you should talk to
somebody, a therapist or apsychiatrist, or they need more
help and support than you cangive them.
Jess (17:46):
Anytime you're concerned, I want everyone out there to
follow their gut, really, truly,your mama gut.
You know, your child better thananybody else out there.
I want you to follow your gut.
If you're worried, reach out totheir school counselors, ask
them, how can I help support
Randi (18:04):
you?
Do you have resources I can usethings like that?
Jess (18:07):
Or talk to your kids and say, I'm concerned.
What is going on?
And a lot of parents forgetthat, like, they're still kids.
And they don't want to look atyou like an adult.
I don't know if y'all rememberdating.
When you went on dates andyou're sitting across from a
restaurant talking to somebody,it feels like an interview.
Mm hmm.
That feels crappy.
The one that feels better islike when you're next to them
(18:28):
walking, strolling along, andyou have these like nice fluid
kind of organic conversations.
Your kids are still like thattoo.
So bribe them.
Hey, I'm going to Starbucks.
Why don't you come with me?
Yeah,
Randi (18:41):
I'm going to Target.
I want to go shopping.
That's my daughter's lovelanguage.
Okay, so
Jess (18:45):
say mine is Starbucks.
Yeah.
And with your boys who don'twant to leave the house, play a
game, get some food.
No, take them to drive somewhereand get food.
Be like, Hey.
Are you hungry?
Let's go here and pick somethingthat's more than five minutes
from the house
Randi (18:58):
or, you know, so you have that time to talk with them and
drive in the car.
And like you said, it's not sucha sterile environment.
It's not, Hey, look me in theeyes and talk to me about this
right now.
It's Hey, let's just, you know,we're just hanging out, just
Jess (19:10):
hanging out.
It's called windshield time fora reason.
I mean, just have thatwindshield time.
And if you're concerned.
Take it up a notch.
I would rather you be like, I'mworried and let's take a look at
it versus ignoring it all thetime.
Randi (19:23):
So what are some other strategies that we can address
for these challenging behaviors?
Jess (19:28):
Well, I think you said it before.
Randy is empathy.
You talked about settingboundaries.
Being empathetic, having thisopen communication.
The other part is, what can youdo?
Let's do therapy with Randy fora minute.
What can you do?
That's kind of cute actually.
What can you do right now toencourage something like a
(19:50):
healthy coping skill for yourdaughter without calling it
that?
Because she'll know you're doingtherapy.
She's
Randi (19:56):
going to be like, don't.
Don't therapeutize me.
Yeah, don't therapeutize me.
Don't therapeutize me.
I'm not your client.
I'm your daughter.
Well, for her too, I usually goto her and I ask her, What can I
do to help you?
What do you need right now?
And then whether that's like amovie or I say, Do you want to
go do one of our thingstogether?
(20:16):
Like her and I, even though Ihave other children, her and I
one on one time is important forme to take with my kids.
So I'll be like, let's go.
We like to do crafts together.
We like to go to the moviestogether.
We'd like to shop together.
So I'll ask her to do that stuffso that we do have that one on
one time.
And then it's like casual andit's not forced.
And then I ask her things abouther friends and what she's doing
(20:39):
right now.
She likes to game.
So I ask about that.
And then I work in.
Those other things that areimportant for her to develop.
And I also let her know, youneed these coping skills.
And I often use myself as anexample too.
I did or did not have thissupport structure when I was
your age.
And this is why I'm trying.
(21:00):
I don't talk to her like a baby.
I talk to her like she is acapable woman, an adult.
And I think that she respectsthat more too.
Jess (21:10):
Well, because she is, and my daughter, she asks for dates.
She'll do mom.
We need a date soon.
Okay, cool.
What do you want to do?
And that's just her and Igetting out and doing some one
on one time, but it's usuallyjust walking around cause we're
doing that windshield non directeye contact
Randi (21:26):
talking.
And I think it's important to.
No, when you said that she'sasking you and you're hearing
her Mm hmm.
I think a lot of the times wetell our kids not right now
later Busy, I'm overwhelmed I'mstressed and they learn not to
come to us then
Jess (21:46):
and they also learn that that's a really crappy coping
skill because that's what Theydo I'm stressed right now.
And all they're doing ismimicking what you've shown them
They're not
Randi (21:54):
really getting to the root of why they're stressed or
why it's like this blanket.
So hear your kids when they say,Hey, I want to go.
Do this or I need this look forthe ways that they are reaching
out for you.
It might not sound like that ina certain way.
It might be like, Hey, can youwatch me play Minecraft?
Hey, can you drive my friendsand I to the movies?
(22:15):
Hey, can you, these areopportunities that you can take
to help these behaviors and tohelp them build coping skills
and to build that relationshipwith your teens so that it's not
so explosive.
Jess (22:27):
Yeah, mine is, we're hosting her friends again.
She wants, I don't know, five orsix of her friends to come over,
which is great.
And they just take over ourliving room, dining room area
and play games that are loud.
And she's like, can you do that?
Do you mind providingsandwiches?
I was like, sure, that's fine.
We'll be around.
We'll give you some space.
We're still within yourdistance.
And though it might
Randi (22:46):
inconvenience you.
at certain times or be stressfulat certain times.
What is the alternative?
If you kept saying no, no, no,like, where are they going to go
and do these things?
Where are they going to look forother ways to entertain
themselves?
I think of these things.
So I've always been like the,yeah, sure.
Like all your friends can comeover.
Your friends can stay here.
You're fine.
(23:06):
You can eat our food.
I will buy all the snacksbecause I would rather that than
the alternate.
This way
Jess (23:14):
at least I can pay attention to what's going on and
I know the friends and I can belike, Oh, okay.
And then you meet the parents atthis age because mine don't
drive yet.
But let's talk about what youwere leading to is what if
they're experimenting with drugsor alcohol?
And it's really hard because wehave so many different states
with so many laws.
Obviously where we are, we'relike the last three to
Randi (23:34):
not be having, oh my gosh, we live in the backwoods.
Anyways.
Jess (23:38):
Yeah.
We're like the last, by the endof this year, there's going to
be like.
three states that don't havesome form of either CBD,
marijuana usage, recreation,medical.
And it's us.
It's us.
Yeah.
We're here.
A lot of this stuff is legal.
And I've always said, Hey, areyou 18?
Are you 21?
Whatever your law is.
If at 18, if you can smoke pot,that's great at 18, you're legal
(24:01):
at 21.
If you can drink, then you'relegal.
But let's talk about what arethe household rules,
Randi (24:07):
right?
And also, what are the risks?
To not only your physicalhealth, but your mental
Jess (24:12):
health and your brain, the growth, the development.
So
Randi (24:15):
being supportive and holding up your rules and
boundaries, but also while beingnot non judge.
I can't say the word non judgemental, non judge today.
Jess (24:28):
Real quick.
I want to go back to say, whatare you showing them as your
example?
If you're a smoker, your kid ismore likely to smoke if you're a
drinker and they've grown uparound alcohol and it's been
normalized.
They're more likely to drink.
And so what are you showingthem?
Some kids grow up and they'relike, they've seen you drink and
they're like, I'm neverdrinking.
(24:48):
You're like, okay, cool.
That's great.
And some kids, they just stilltheir parents alcohol and water
down the vodka.
I mean, whatever.
We're not pointing fingers.
You have to look at yourselvesand what example you've also
been showing them and makingsure it's not the pot, column
and kettle black.
Is that, can you say that?
Randi (25:06):
Yeah, because if you are showing them.
Something and then sayingsomething else.
They're not going to have anyrespect for you.
And you're like, why don't theyrespect me?
Well, if you're being ahypocrite, I mean, nobody's
going to listen to you.
Would you listen to yourself?
Jess (25:21):
Oh yeah.
We would talk shit in aheartbeat.
Exactly.
You are also talking about howdo we support.
Our children's mental healthright now, this is so
challenging for us, but it's notabout us.
This is about them.
So how do we support themcreating
Randi (25:37):
a safe space for them?
Uh, safe space.
Jess (25:40):
You that is your job as parents to create the safe space
Randi (25:45):
and then giving them creative outlets to express
themselves.
Whatever that looks like.
If that's gaming are journaling.
time with you, whatever it isthat they love, that's kind of
like puts a spark in them,support that and let them know
that my daughter doesn't want totake the traditional route of
going to college right away.
(26:06):
And I am a very academic person.
So at first I was like, Then Iwas like, no, this is not me.
This is her.
And I want to support her andwhere she's at.
And a lot of other people whohave no influence in our life
have decided to make commentsabout it.
Jess (26:21):
Opinions are like assholes.
We all have them and they all
Randi (26:24):
stink.
Exactly.
And I don't want that to deterher from doing something because
I've always taught my kids that.
When you do something you love,that is finding true success.
It's not a paper.
It's not a degree.
It's not making sure your mentalhealth is good and making sure
you can
Jess (26:41):
take care of yourself.
You gotta be honest.
You gotta eat and pay
Randi (26:43):
your rent.
Yeah.
And still that there are stillfinancial things that you need
to do, but you can find successwith things that you love as
well.
But it doesn't have to be thetraditional
Jess (26:54):
route.
And that's why in our house, wedid it with our oldest and we
still say with our youngest is,you know, there are three things
you can go get a trade.
Those sometimes pay higher thana college degree, right?
You can go to college, you cango into the military.
You can get a job right away.
(27:15):
Our thing is we don't need aroommate.
We're good.
But for us, if you want to liveat home, you have to do one of
the three things.
You can go to trade, you can goto college, you can go into the
military.
Our oldest chose the militaryroute.
That's great.
Not what we were expecting.
And now he's ready to come back.
He's getting out.
He's done it.
(27:35):
So guess what?
Now he can go to college.
And the military pays for it.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
Awesome.
I know.
We're like, all right, good job.
And you can come back and liveat home and go to college.
We're okay with that.
Some parents are like, you're18, you're out, but it's so hard
out
Randi (27:51):
there.
It is.
And not just like the world asit is, but also like
financially, I know I used tolive in a, Jess and I come from
a very expensive state where weused to live and grew up and a
lot of.
People I know still live withparents or family and friends
(28:13):
because it's really expensive.
Jess (28:16):
And now it's their parents are living with them because
it's really
Randi (28:19):
expensive.
Or I have friends that havenever, they make really damn
good money, but they still can'tafford to buy a house.
And that's okay.
And, and that's okay.
Things don't have to look acertain way that we picture this
cookie cutter cutout.
It can come in various forms andunderstanding that and having
the empathy for that reallyhelps our kids.
(28:40):
Now, I know this is very hard,but a lot of times we feel like
our kids are pulling away anddistancing themselves from not
only us, but their own friendsand their own family.
And is that normal?
Yeah.
Jess (28:52):
That is so normal for them to just want this independence.
And they're also terrified.
As parents, we joke that your 13year old is going to go hide up
in their room.
Ha ha ha.
Yeah, they do.
They go hide up in the room.
They come down if it wasn't forfood.
Right.
We may not see them sometimes.
I think that's a normal thing atthis age too, is that they're
starting to withdraw a littlebit and hunker in their corner
(29:15):
kind of
Randi (29:15):
thing.
And I think what we talked abouta little bit earlier is creating
that distance to as a protectivebarrier to losing maybe what
they know in their comfort zoneand trying to prepare
themselves, like putting uptheir walls.
Yeah.
Jess (29:29):
And they just need to find a balance and we have to find
the balance between their needfor independence and really
maintaining the family rules andbonds.
You still live here.
You still got to unload thedishes.
I'm sorry.
That's just part
Randi (29:42):
of the rules.
That leads into what reallydoes.
Autonomy have to do with a teenand young adult's development.
Jess (29:50):
These are life skills.
My oldest used to get so madbecause his mom would always be
like, these are life skills.
You have to learn how to do thisstuff because you got to learn
how to pump your own gas.
You have to learn all thesedifferent things.
These are the things that wewant them to be able to make
decisions and be responsible.
Responsible and rely onthemselves for things.
(30:12):
Let's
Randi (30:13):
go back a little bit.
Let's define what autonomy is.
'cause I feel like that's one ofthose words that gets thrown
around, but people might notunderstand specifically what it
is.
And it means the right to governyourself, like your body, your
decisions, your mind, and owningthat.
So this is giving your teens theright to self govern.
(30:34):
It's like when
Jess (30:34):
they were little and they're like.
Put their hands on their hipsand say, you can't tell me what
to do.
You remember that?
Well, I
Randi (30:41):
used to say, yes, I can.
Yes, I can.
Jess (30:45):
Some of the things I'll say with the oldest is that if
you are not relying on usfinancially, you're not living
in our house.
We're not paying for your cellphone.
We're not paying for college oryour car insurance.
You have a hundred percentcontrol over what you do.
Yeah.
I'm not saying that.
Yeah.
It's not pay to play.
(31:05):
Yeah.
No, it's not that.
But if you're going to live inour house,
Randi (31:08):
there's boundaries,
Jess (31:09):
responsibilities, there are responsibilities and rules
and boundaries, right?
As an adult, if you're not goingto come home, can you let us
know?
So we're not worried about youbeing in a ditch.
I don't need to know what you're
Randi (31:19):
doing.
I just had a friend or reallyshe, she was struggling with
that because she was like, Ijust want her to tell me that
she's safe.
Yeah.
I don't care like about anythingelse.
I just want.
Her to be like, I am here andthat's okay.
Jess (31:34):
We just told him, be a good roommate.
This is what you do with whenyou have roommates in your
twenties, Hey, I'm going out andnot coming back.
Cool.
Thanks.
So they don't go, Hey, I haven'tseen her in four days.
What happened?
Should I call somebody?
This is just being a goodroommate as they get older.
And that's what you want them todo and learn how to balance a
checkbook or at least theiraccount.
And
Randi (31:53):
that's, that comes with these skills that we need to
teach them about being prepared.
So like age.
Yeah.
appropriate responsibilities andimportant decision making.
Like, how do I balance acheckbook?
Like, how do I pay attention tomy account balance?
Like, how do I divide a dinnerwith friends or something like
(32:18):
that?
These things that we don't thinkabout.
Well,
Jess (32:20):
that's a hard one even as adults.
Randi (32:21):
Right.
They even have apps for that.
Like how to split like apps andlike vacations and things like
that.
Because.
This is something that peoplehave struggled with.
Jess (32:30):
It is a struggle because everybody handles money
differently.
Randi (32:34):
And like how to talk to their teachers or their
professors or at their job, likehow to handle certain
situations.
These are important life skillsthat a lot of us had to learn or
still haven't learned and theyshould teach in high school, but
they don't.
And budgeting things like that,that nobody ever sat down and
(32:58):
did that with me.
And so I struggled withbudgeting and finances until I
was much older struggle becauseyou're ADHD.
Well, yeah, that's that's whatthat is.
But yeah, but still, I didn'thave any skills to.
Back up my brain that was all bythis,
Jess (33:15):
but with, with that, I like one of the points you just
made was that don't wait untilyou're the second semester of
senior year to all of a suddenthrow all of these things onto
your child.
Let's do all these life hacksright now.
Yeah.
That's not going to work.
We started in eighth grade.
This was eighth grade this year.
(33:35):
I said, you need to every yearat the beginning of the year,
I've sent an email saying, thisis my child.
My child is ADHD.
These are her, what she needs,what she excels at.
These are the accommodations per504.
Right?
Let me know if you have anyquestions.
Well, this year I said, you'reeighth grade.
Now you need to send it.
Wait, what?
Or
Randi (33:54):
have that conversation with your teachers.
I
Jess (33:57):
wanted an email and a conversation.
So we sat down and she sent it.
Why do I have to do this?
I said, cause in four or fiveyears, you'll be in college and
you're going to have to learn toadvocate for yourself.
I can't be your mommy on yourcollege campus.
Randi (34:11):
Exactly.
Or at your job or whateverhappens, you have
Jess (34:15):
to learn.
I can't tell your boss he's ajerk and that this, I said, you
have to learn to do this.
And so start earlier.
And that's empowerment.
Yeah.
Start earlier.
So you're not dumping all ofthis senior year going, well,
you're going to be 18 in threemonths.
What are you going to do?
Randi (34:30):
Yeah.
And adding more fuel to the fireand their anxiety.
But that's just going to make itworse.
Speaking
Jess (34:36):
of anxiety, if you're worried about their behavior,
what do you do?
I know we talked about it alittle bit before, but Randy,
what do you do when you'reworried about your daughter's
Randi (34:46):
anxiety or you're worried?
I trust my intuition about it.
And then I reach out to peoplethat can support me through
this.
And that's usually a doctor,therapist, counselor, a school
counselor, a teacher.
Or a psychiatrist that can helpguide me to the right things
that she needs that I might notbe able to give her.
Jess (35:07):
Yeah.
Or maybe you just need to getyour own Xanax and you can not
have the anxiety that she'sbringing up.
Exactly.
I'm kidding guys.
I'm kidding.
Randi (35:16):
Kind of.
So with all these things, themost important thing is keep
that communication open.
And empathetic listening andreally validate how their
feelings.
We all need to have our feelingsvalidated.
That doesn't change whetheryou're 5 or you're 55 or you're
105.
And when it comes down to it,our jobs as a parent or
(35:40):
caregiver is to show support andto love unconditionally.
Unconditionally means.
Conditions.
Conditions.
Yeah.
You don't want to gaslight.
You don't want to be anarcissist.
You don't want to say, I alwaystell my daughter sometimes, I
don't like you, but I love you.
Jess (35:58):
And I would rather her say, I don't like your behavior
right now, but I love you nomatter what.
And I love you no matter what.
No buts.
And I love you.
Cause remember your kids rightnow are scared and terrified.
They have been working so hard.
So hard to get to this pointand, oh my gosh, it's so much to
do still.
(36:19):
And then there's theseexpectations and they're not,
like you said, your daughter'snot doing the traditional route.
She couldn't be comparingherself to other kids.
Well, they're going to collegeand I don't want to.
Exactly.
Randi (36:29):
That's another thing is they have their own peer
pressure from this.
Their friends are doing certainthings or so and so is going to
Ivy league or so and so is not,or so and so is going to trade
school or so and so is.
Whatever.
And comparing, am I doing theright thing?
Am I doing the wrong thing?
Am I, do I want to do this?
Do I want, and let's be honest,our minds change all the time.
(36:52):
So maybe that path you startedon isn't the path you want to
take the day of graduation.
And maybe they're fearful totell you, Hey, I decided I don't
want to do
Jess (37:00):
that.
I'm telling you.
I am telling you, ours, he wasgoing to go to a four year
college.
He was going to do this.
And then all of a sudden hesaid, I'm going to go in the
military.
And we were like, wait, what?
What?
You don't like
Randi (37:13):
our rules?
360, what just happened?
You don't like
Jess (37:15):
our rules, but you want to go to the military.
Okay.
And then the next thing youknow, we had a Marine person
showing up in our driveway andhe calls me and he's like, Jess,
Jess, the Marine was in mydriveway, in the driveway when I
got home today.
And, and I was like, Therecruiter.
What?
I was like, you're not even 18yet.
He was like, can you help?
(37:36):
I was like, yeah.
And we talked about it.
I said, how can I support you?
He was like, I'm not ready.
I don't need him showing up atmy house.
So I called him up and I waslike, dude, he's not 18 yet.
Too much.
Don't show up at my driveway.
If we want you, we will reachout to you, which I get it.
They're recruiters, but he waslike, that freaked him out.
(37:57):
I was like, yeah, it wasn't thethought.
We thought you were going to gothat path, but
Randi (38:02):
Hey.
And so just being able to pivotwith what they decide and go
with.
I changed my mind 500 timesabout what I'm going to eat for
the afternoon.
So it's let alone a life, whatcan feel like a life altering
decision.
And did I take the path?
I, I was one of those peoplethat planned out.
Every aspect of my life, and Ihave this 5 year, 10 year, 15
(38:24):
year plan.
Didn't any of that happen?
F no.
I know.
Jess (38:27):
If anybody told me that I would be sitting here doing a
podcast in Idaho, I would havebeen like, oh, what?
Randi (38:32):
Right.
Or that I would be apsychotherapist.
I would have probably, well, Iwanted to be an art therapist.
So it's not like that far off.
But I ended up having to take mymom got ill and I ended up
having to take a huge gapbetween college and I didn't get
where I wanted to go untilprobably 10 years later.
And I was so hard on myself.
And that's the thing you have tounderstand.
(38:52):
Our kids are probably havingthis inner dialogue in their
mind and they're probablybeating themselves up over
things.
So we don't need to probablybeat them up too about
Jess (39:02):
it.
No, just hug them and tell themyou love them,
Randi (39:05):
celebrate their achievements, whether they're
small or big, just the littlethings to, to let them know that
you're not just harping onthings that are like negative,
but find the positive in thatand really cherish those things
that make them unique,
Jess (39:18):
find other things to talk to them about.
Besides, did you take out thetrash?
Did you do the dishes?
Did you turn in your homework?
Yeah.
Find something else to haveconversations.
Pull them out of their room orgo join them in their room.
Mm hmm.
Randi (39:31):
Yeah.
Sometimes I'll just go and I'llsit on my daughter's bed and
she's like, what are you doing?
And I'm like, it's so weird.
And I'm like, I'm here, but theycan come in our room all the
time and just hang out.
She'll steal our makeup.
She comes in my room.
Night and we have these fullconversations and her dad is
like, what is happening rightnow?
And why is she and I'm like, I,I never dissuade that because I
(39:52):
love it.
I cherish that time and it helpsthis period when we're
struggling and frustrated as aparent or as a caregiver, I just
am like, okay, I look forward tothat
Jess (40:03):
stuff.
I think my daughter gets weirdedout too.
When I go and lay in her bed,she's got all these squish
mellows all over and it's socomfortable.
And she's like.
What are you doing?
Yeah.
Randi (40:11):
Why are you laying on my bed?
Why are you touching my stuff?
I'm like, I just want to behere.
Cause it's
Jess (40:15):
soft and it's great.
And I said, this is really fun.
Yeah.
Randi (40:19):
Cause your room's super cute and mine doesn't have a
bunch of cute stuffed animalsand things all over the place.
No, I'm an adult.
Yeah.
Jess (40:25):
Boring.
Remember that when your teen isnavigating this last semester of
high school and all of thesechallenges that they are
throwing at you, this is a verynatural process.
Randi (40:39):
It's normal.
We're normalizing
Jess (40:41):
it.
It is normal.
They are not.
Trying to be a holes, theyreally are just having all of
this, like Randy said, theseinner dialogues,
Randi (40:51):
all these feelings and hormones and stress.
And I just want to say, I hopethat this normalized it for you,
because when Jess talked to meabout this.
I took such a big sigh of reliefand was able to step back and
also give myself perspectiveabout it and my teenager as
well.
(41:11):
And it helped as a whole, justbeing able to talk about that.
I wasn't alone in this.
And yes, even us as therapists,we still struggle with that on
the daily.
Jess (41:20):
You're not alone.
This is a very normal processand it's going to kick up some
anxiety in the house.
Even the dogs are probablyacting out at this point.
Right.
This is just normal guys.
You get through this.
Randi (41:33):
You will.
And we hope this episode hashelped you today.
Welcome to the Women's Mental Health Podcast, where
(00:02):
Randy and Jess, two licensedpsychotherapists, and we talk
about women's mental health,well being and strategies for
coping with all of life'schallenges.
Jess (00:10):
And how all of this is normal.
This
Randi (00:14):
episode, we are going to try to explain teenage behavior
before leaving home and itsimpact on women's mental health,
and try to provide some insightsinto strategies for coping with
Jess (00:25):
this.
We understand that navigatingthese challenges of parenting
can be so overwhelming.
Experiencing.
X.
Especially when it comes tounderstanding why our teens are
acting out before they'regetting ready to leave.
And we're talking about thistime right now, which is second
semester of senior year.
We
Randi (00:46):
started talking about this because I was talking to
Jess about what I was goingthrough and she was like, this
is a thing.
And I was like, it is, I'm notalone in this, like, tell me
more about this.
And then she already knew aboutit.
And then I started researchingabout it and we were like, Oh my
gosh, we need to talk aboutthat.
Yeah.
So we're going to dive in andexplore this whole life phase
(01:07):
together and hopefully we canhelp support you through this.
Jess (01:11):
Okay.
So find us and more resources onwomen's mental health podcast.
com.
Have you ever had these
Randi (01:17):
thoughts?
Why do some teens engage in suchrisky or challenging behavior
right before leaving home?
Jess (01:25):
How can I tell if what my teenager is doing is normal or
if there's more serious issues?
Randi (01:31):
What are some strategies that I can use to really address
these challenging behaviors inmy teen?
Jess (01:38):
Should I worry if my teen is experiencing with substances?
Randi (01:43):
How can I support my teenager's mental well being
during this super tough
Jess (01:49):
time?
Is it normal for my teen todistance themselves from family
and spend more time either intheir room or with their friends
right now?
Randi (01:59):
And what role does autonomy play in a teen's
development?
And this is very importantbecause I have a hard time with
this, like letting go so thatthey have the choice, but giving
boundaries for them too.
And that's, that's a reallyimportant
Jess (02:12):
question.
And it is, it's so hard rightnow at this age, because you're
like, I want to give them space,but I don't want to feel like.
I'm abandoning them.
And so how do you figure outwhat you need or don't need with
them?
How can I prepare my teen forthe challenges of leaving home
and going to college?
And
Randi (02:29):
what should you do if your teenager's behavior has
really become concerning orthey're becoming a danger to
themselves or
Jess (02:36):
others?
And then how can I maintain astrong, supportive relationship
with my teen?
during this phase, especiallybecause you don't want to enable
them and you don't want toabandon them.
Right.
All of these things that happento
Randi (02:50):
keep that relationship with love.
But it's like, it's, did
Jess (02:54):
you do your damn homework?
Why am I getting another noticesaying you didn't turn something
Randi (03:00):
in?
Exactly.
Like, why are you prioritizinglike your friends over this or
your family?
And what
Jess (03:06):
do you mean you're not going to school today?
Exactly.
What, what, what are you talkingabout?
You have.
Four months to go.
Randi (03:12):
Let's do this.
We're at the finish line.
Let's not trip at the finishline.
I actually said that to mydaughter this
Jess (03:19):
week.
I had a psychology friendbecause our oldest is already
adulthood, right?
I've already, we did this phaselike eight years ago.
And at the time I had one of myfriends say they call it
shitting the nest.
And I was like, what do youmean?
And I guess that's, there's abetter way to say like spoiling
the nest.
She said, no, not what, whathe's doing is normal.
(03:40):
This is called shitting thenest.
So there's actually a group, Ican't remember the birds, but
there's these birds.
And what the babies do is theypoop all over the nest to the
point where the parents arelike, Oh, I'm out.
You're done.
You, this is, I can't do thisanymore.
You need to go.
Huh?
And that's what the teenagersare doing.
They're acting out for so manyreasons right now because
(04:01):
there's this big life changehappening.
Randi (04:03):
Yeah.
So it's this huge transition andthey're just scared and they're
fearful.
So they're acting out.
Yeah.
Jess (04:12):
And if it was easy to stay home.
They would never leave us,right?
Randi (04:17):
So they're shitting all over us.
Jess (04:19):
Yes, they're shitting in your nest Right now these
behaviors that we're talkingabout and we're kind of joking.
Okay, not going to school notturning your homework Sometimes
it's the attitude.
Oh boy.
Is it the attitude that startscoming out?
It's it's the you can't tell mewhat to do and I'm leaving.
Yeah, I'm almost an adultPushing the boundaries.
(04:40):
I'm going to do stuff with mygirlfriend or my boyfriend or
coming out a little later andlet's
Randi (04:45):
also talk about like hormones, mood swings, their own
mental health.
If they're a female PMS, likeall these things coming in to
play, their bodies are stilldeveloping to their brains are
still developing.
There's all these things thattheir brains.
Jess (05:02):
Your child's brains do not stop developing until about 23
to 25.
Their brains are still trying togrow and develop and figure
stuff out.
But our society says, you'regoing to be graduating and
you're 18.
You're an adult
Randi (05:17):
now.
Yeah.
We're like, we need to kick youout the door.
Jess (05:20):
We coddle them now.
And now we have to like, letthem go like that.
It's not even letting them go.
It's like pushing them out.
From a mental healthperspective, though, I know a
lot of these behaviors, they'reinfluenced by various factors,
like you said, the hormones andthe peer pressure.
And I know there's other thingsthat some of these kids have.
We're not talking about all thekids that have oppositional
defiant disorder or conductdisorder or depression.
(05:41):
We're talking about just rightnow, the second semester of
senior.
year.
Randi (05:48):
So really, it's about the stress and uncertainty of
transitioning into thisadulthood phase that can also
impact their mental health.
And let's be honest, ourparents, the caregivers, whether
you're a foster parent, anadoptive parent, a teacher or
two, I'm sure that they getpushed back.
(06:08):
It's really affecting Everybodyas a whole.
And this happens.
Jess (06:14):
I was so toast and I'll just share.
I was so done.
Like, I didn't know if we weregoing to make it through the end
of our senior year.
Randi (06:21):
I feel like that right now.
I want to run away.
Yes.
Like what?
Why is this happening?
I can't handle this.
Like, I thought life wassupposed to get easier.
Like, my sister has younger kidsthat are like, she has three And
she's like, does it get easier?
And I'm like, no, there's justnew challenges that are
different.
Jess (06:40):
It's just, and that's what I tell parents.
It doesn't get easier.
Like after the first year, yes,it gets
Randi (06:45):
easier.
Well, you have a betterunderstanding,
Jess (06:47):
right?
But it just gets different.
It's all hard.
And it just.
gets different.
And it's so hard when we'rewatching our kids go through
this really challengingbehavior.
And honestly, they're actinglike assholes and really, it's
so frustrating to see all thisbecause I wish I could have
(07:08):
behaved better, but I was, itwas so anxiety provoking for me
because I was like, what are wedoing?
Why are we doing this?
Randi (07:15):
Yeah.
I've been trying to like temper,like my reaction, but another
thing too is like the guilt ofit.
And then I feel like, did I dosomething wrong?
Could I have done somethingdifferent 10 years ago that
would have changed this now?
And then just bringing this up,I'm like, okay, this is normal.
This is a normal transition.
It's like teething or learningto walk or something, but yeah,
(07:36):
basically they're getting theirteeth into adulthood when
there's growing pains happening.
And so we need to beunderstanding and empathetic of
that.
And I think that's helping me.
Flip the script in my head andlike my expectations of what I
expect of my teenager as asenior leaving high school and
transitioning.
(07:58):
And part
of
Jess (07:58):
this though is really important to make sure you take
care of your mental health.
And I'm saying becauseafterwards.
After this, Randy's I have amassage.
I was like, good job.
Good job.
You need to make sure you'retaking care of yourself because
they're going to do what theydo.
And I got, we survived.
We're all three of us.
Four of us are still here.
We made it through thatchallenging time.
(08:21):
And I do, I will say, I don'tknow if we would have done it
better, but man, night ofgraduation, we're like, yeah.
You're driving, we're drinking,and we went and had martinis at
this big We're celebrating.
Yes, we had a big fancy dinner,and I was like, you're driving
us home.
Yeah.
And dad and I were like, okay,we're gonna have a martini here
because man, we made it.
We were like, oh my god, we madeit to the end of
Randi (08:43):
senior year.
You've got to prioritize, like,self care in some ways, and
Okay, so
Jess (08:48):
that's not exactly self care.
That was a celebrating, but that
Randi (08:51):
wasn't self care.
Well, okay, so celebrating selfcare, but Not that part, but
another way is really, we haveto learn how to help our
teenager cope and copeourselves.
So what does that include?
Communication?
Yes.
Open communication.
Jess (09:09):
It's not taking it personal.
That's actually the huge piece
Randi (09:13):
as parents.
And I, being ADHD, I'm verylike, I have reactive
sensitivity dysphoria, which youguys can search that up on our
website because we have talkedabout it and it's actually one
of our most popular podcasts.
So we tend to jump toconclusions.
I'm thinking of the office movieto jump to conclusion map and we
(09:34):
go straight to the emotionalside of it instead of taking a
step back and being like, what'sreally happening here?
I had a heart to heart with mydaughter to like sat down.
What's really happening here?
And then she was able.
We were both crying.
She's able to tell me what she'sfrustrated with, how she's
feeling.
And I told her how I'm feelingand why I'm reacting the way I
do and reacting out of a placeof love and wanting to support
(09:57):
her and push her, butunderstanding to maybe what I
was doing was too much becausethen she was having this.
Anxiety about not only her ownthoughts, but then my reactions
too.
And it's so
Jess (10:08):
hard because as parents, when they're little, they come
to us and we fix it.
We get a bandaid.
We do hugs.
We have the right answers whenthey're little.
At this age, we still want tofix it.
Yeah,
Randi (10:21):
but we need to teach them how to fix it for them.
Selves
Jess (10:25):
and we wanna just do it.
Like it's just, oh, I wanna wrapmy kid in bubble wrap every day
is what I say.
Mm-Hmm.
I just wanna put her in bubblewrap and protect her Always, all
my friends, everybody.
And it's just so hard becausethey have to learn some of this
stuff.
And let's face it, some of ushave kids that have to learn the
hard way.
I'm one of those.
mm-Hmm, I have to learn the hardway sometimes.
(10:47):
My kids are the same
Randi (10:48):
way.
Yeah.
And I tell my teenager too, likeI was a late bloomer.
It took me a while to get thingsgoing for myself.
Jess (10:56):
That's because you're not a late bloomer.
It's because you're ADHD, right?
Well, I learned that later.
Yeah.
We're not late bloomers.
We're just, our brands are alittle different and they
develop different.
And we do things the hard
Randi (11:08):
fucking way.
Right.
And so that's why.
Again, it's so important tocommunicate this with our kids,
teach them to communicate withus and also have boundaries,
like they need to haveboundaries with us, but we also
need to have boundaries withthem and learning to compromise
on
Jess (11:22):
that.
I wonder, Randy, if you wentthrough and you validated it
with her and you said, hey.
We just did a podcast on thisbecause we're talking about it
and this is a really normalphase to go through.
Oh, yeah.
Do you think that she would belike, oh, I'm this is normal for
me?
Randi (11:38):
like I wanted to talk to her about this because I was
gonna tell her like we did allthis research and like this is
Normal and just went through itand then you're not alone And so
your friends are probably allgoing through it and I noticed
too like I want to say this isprobably true for myself Self.
And I want to say, I noticed itwith my daughter and her friends
group.
They kind of like are pullingaway from each other a little
(11:59):
bit.
And I think that that is also aprotective thing.
Like you're losing the supportsystem and you don't have a
support system already or youdon't know what that's going to
look like and changing andthere's grief over that.
There's grief over.
Losing this phase of childhood,going
Jess (12:19):
to school every day, knowing exactly how it's going
to be laid out.
Right.
We've been doing this for 12years.
Yeah.
We pretty much know.
Randi (12:27):
And now it's all unknown.
Jess (12:29):
And the kids right now, these are kids that four years
ago.
Started school when a lot ofschools
Randi (12:36):
were shut down.
When COVID happened.
Right.
Yeah.
That was my daughter.
Her first year of high schoolwas In N Out, In N Out, In N
Out, hybrid, really mostlyonline.
So, and who knows what's goingto happen in the future.
So they have this also, we don'tknow if something could happen
again and it could throw us offcourse again.
Jess (12:56):
Exactly.
A lot of people just startedgetting a routine this last
year, maybe the year before.
We're still seeing all theseillnesses and stuff.
I'll get off my soapbox, butpeople are so sick this last
couple of months because we'restill adjusting after such a
interesting time.
And I know every state wasdifferent and everybody has
(13:16):
different beliefs.
We're not getting into that, butour kids are still not
Randi (13:21):
normal.
Mm hmm.
I think another way too thatI've had to think differently
about this is having kind ofgrowth mindset about it.
This is a period of them togrow.
This is a period of them to findthemselves.
This is a period of selfdiscovery and letting them fail.
And I like to tell my kids,we've talked about this before,
(13:43):
that it's not failing.
No, it's not failing forward.
Mistakes are part of life andyou learn so much from them.
So also reminding myself thatthese mistakes, even though I
want to protect her from them,they're essential for her
growing into who she is.
And
Jess (13:59):
let's be honest, you also want to strangle her for them.
Come on.
There are these times where wejust like, really?
And that's really, this
Randi (14:05):
is what we're doing.
It's okay.
Call your friends, your sister,your mom, bitch about it, let it
out, vent it, and then go back,talk about it, research it, and
then take care of it fromyourself.
Put on your oxygen mask first,find what you need to do to
center yourself and then go toyour kids and help them work
through it.
Yeah.
Jess (14:23):
Our oldest was just so angry.
It was.
And we were the biggest a holesever as parents.
We were holding him to the line.
This is the rule.
This is what we were doing.
Going back, I think I would havebeen a little softer.
Yeah.
A little softer, maybe, but itwas just like, we had to just
(14:43):
contain this.
Oh, and that's amazing concept,right?
Think about containment.
When we have them as babies, weliterally hold them.
Like I'm holding like an infant,my arm rocking them.
We're containing them as theyget
Randi (14:57):
older.
Swaddle them and wrap them
Jess (14:59):
up.
And then as they get older, ourcontainment field, our arms get
bigger and bigger and bigger.
So that way we can open up forthem.
And there are times in ourlives, nine, 10, whatever that
we have to close that circle andcontain them more.
And now We're telling them,peace out, wide open space, see
(15:23):
you later, you're 18, what areyou going to do?
But really, it's a time toprovide containment with them,
but to give them a little bitmore, I want to say freedom,
that's not it.
Let them make the choices or thedirection.
Randi (15:36):
Yeah, the autonomy over their
Jess (15:38):
choices.
Yeah, and be like, okay, what doyou think you want to do?
What do you think is this?
Instead of trying to fix it.
It's hard.
This is the hardest.
It's hard.
Randi (15:47):
Like Bob the Builder, I'm here, just let me tap tap and
it's gonna fix it.
Two, like teachers reach out andtheir counselors reach out.
And I have had to tell herteachers and counselors, I am
letting her figure this out onher own.
I have to step
Jess (16:01):
back.
We probably, right when they getto be like right before high
school as parents, we shouldprobably start having some of
our own life.
So many parents are so stillwrapped up in their kids that we
don't have our own hobbies.
And then what happens is we're
Randi (16:16):
friendships or support
Jess (16:18):
systems.
And then what we're worriedabout is as a parent and moms is
that they're going to leave
Randi (16:23):
us.
Yeah.
And empty nest syndrome too onthe opposite side.
It's true.
And it's also a huge time forpeople getting divorced.
Jess (16:32):
Oh yeah.
You're like, Hey, the kids areout.
I don't actually like youanymore.
I don't
Randi (16:36):
know who you are.
Yeah.
I don't know who I am either.
You have no sense of self.
That's a whole other podcast.
So when you have to createdistance too, and if you start
it earlier on, it's not as
Jess (16:49):
hard.
It's not like the slap in theface.
I'm not saying abandon them andgo get a whole hobby and new
life.
Right.
But I'm saying.
When you have been, some ofthese moms who are like, I've
been running the sports anddriving on travel teams and
we've been, you know, club andyou're like, wait, who, what,
what's my Facebook group now?
(17:09):
I think it's great if you canfind other things to do and
still support them.
Yeah.
Randi (17:14):
So here's another important point.
How do we differentiate betweenthis normal average second
semester slump and.
More serious mental healthissues.
Jess (17:26):
Ooh, I like the second semester slump.
I think it needs, yeah, yeah.
Second semester slump.
It's not even pregnancy.
It's just, oh dear gosh, here wego again.
So like normal versus.
Randi (17:38):
When it's concerning, when you should talk to
somebody, a therapist or apsychiatrist, or they need more
help and support than you cangive them.
Jess (17:46):
Anytime you're concerned, I want everyone out there to
follow their gut, really, truly,your mama gut.
You know, your child better thananybody else out there.
I want you to follow your gut.
If you're worried, reach out totheir school counselors, ask
them, how can I help support
Randi (18:04):
you?
Do you have resources I can usethings like that?
Jess (18:07):
Or talk to your kids and say, I'm concerned.
What is going on?
And a lot of parents forgetthat, like, they're still kids.
And they don't want to look atyou like an adult.
I don't know if y'all rememberdating.
When you went on dates andyou're sitting across from a
restaurant talking to somebody,it feels like an interview.
Mm hmm.
That feels crappy.
The one that feels better islike when you're next to them
(18:28):
walking, strolling along, andyou have these like nice fluid
kind of organic conversations.
Your kids are still like thattoo.
So bribe them.
Hey, I'm going to Starbucks.
Why don't you come with me?
Yeah,
Randi (18:41):
I'm going to Target.
I want to go shopping.
That's my daughter's lovelanguage.
Okay, so
Jess (18:45):
say mine is Starbucks.
Yeah.
And with your boys who don'twant to leave the house, play a
game, get some food.
No, take them to drive somewhereand get food.
Be like, Hey.
Are you hungry?
Let's go here and pick somethingthat's more than five minutes
from the house
Randi (18:58):
or, you know, so you have that time to talk with them and
drive in the car.
And like you said, it's not sucha sterile environment.
It's not, Hey, look me in theeyes and talk to me about this
right now.
It's Hey, let's just, you know,we're just hanging out, just
Jess (19:10):
hanging out.
It's called windshield time fora reason.
I mean, just have thatwindshield time.
And if you're concerned.
Take it up a notch.
I would rather you be like, I'mworried and let's take a look at
it versus ignoring it all thetime.
Randi (19:23):
So what are some other strategies that we can address
for these challenging behaviors?
Jess (19:28):
Well, I think you said it before.
Randy is empathy.
You talked about settingboundaries.
Being empathetic, having thisopen communication.
The other part is, what can youdo?
Let's do therapy with Randy fora minute.
What can you do?
That's kind of cute actually.
What can you do right now toencourage something like a
(19:50):
healthy coping skill for yourdaughter without calling it
that?
Because she'll know you're doingtherapy.
She's
Randi (19:56):
going to be like, don't.
Don't therapeutize me.
Yeah, don't therapeutize me.
Don't therapeutize me.
I'm not your client.
I'm your daughter.
Well, for her too, I usually goto her and I ask her, What can I
do to help you?
What do you need right now?
And then whether that's like amovie or I say, Do you want to
go do one of our thingstogether?
(20:16):
Like her and I, even though Ihave other children, her and I
one on one time is important forme to take with my kids.
So I'll be like, let's go.
We like to do crafts together.
We like to go to the moviestogether.
We'd like to shop together.
So I'll ask her to do that stuffso that we do have that one on
one time.
And then it's like casual andit's not forced.
And then I ask her things abouther friends and what she's doing
(20:39):
right now.
She likes to game.
So I ask about that.
And then I work in.
Those other things that areimportant for her to develop.
And I also let her know, youneed these coping skills.
And I often use myself as anexample too.
I did or did not have thissupport structure when I was
your age.
And this is why I'm trying.
(21:00):
I don't talk to her like a baby.
I talk to her like she is acapable woman, an adult.
And I think that she respectsthat more too.
Jess (21:10):
Well, because she is, and my daughter, she asks for dates.
She'll do mom.
We need a date soon.
Okay, cool.
What do you want to do?
And that's just her and Igetting out and doing some one
on one time, but it's usuallyjust walking around cause we're
doing that windshield non directeye contact
Randi (21:26):
talking.
And I think it's important to.
No, when you said that she'sasking you and you're hearing
her Mm hmm.
I think a lot of the times wetell our kids not right now
later Busy, I'm overwhelmed I'mstressed and they learn not to
come to us then
Jess (21:46):
and they also learn that that's a really crappy coping
skill because that's what Theydo I'm stressed right now.
And all they're doing ismimicking what you've shown them
They're not
Randi (21:54):
really getting to the root of why they're stressed or
why it's like this blanket.
So hear your kids when they say,Hey, I want to go.
Do this or I need this look forthe ways that they are reaching
out for you.
It might not sound like that ina certain way.
It might be like, Hey, can youwatch me play Minecraft?
Hey, can you drive my friendsand I to the movies?
(22:15):
Hey, can you, these areopportunities that you can take
to help these behaviors and tohelp them build coping skills
and to build that relationshipwith your teens so that it's not
so explosive.
Jess (22:27):
Yeah, mine is, we're hosting her friends again.
She wants, I don't know, five orsix of her friends to come over,
which is great.
And they just take over ourliving room, dining room area
and play games that are loud.
And she's like, can you do that?
Do you mind providingsandwiches?
I was like, sure, that's fine.
We'll be around.
We'll give you some space.
We're still within yourdistance.
And though it might
Randi (22:46):
inconvenience you.
at certain times or be stressfulat certain times.
What is the alternative?
If you kept saying no, no, no,like, where are they going to go
and do these things?
Where are they going to look forother ways to entertain
themselves?
I think of these things.
So I've always been like the,yeah, sure.
Like all your friends can comeover.
Your friends can stay here.
You're fine.
(23:06):
You can eat our food.
I will buy all the snacksbecause I would rather that than
the alternate.
This way
Jess (23:14):
at least I can pay attention to what's going on and
I know the friends and I can belike, Oh, okay.
And then you meet the parents atthis age because mine don't
drive yet.
But let's talk about what youwere leading to is what if
they're experimenting with drugsor alcohol?
And it's really hard because wehave so many different states
with so many laws.
Obviously where we are, we'relike the last three to
Randi (23:34):
not be having, oh my gosh, we live in the backwoods.
Anyways.
Jess (23:38):
Yeah.
We're like the last, by the endof this year, there's going to
be like.
three states that don't havesome form of either CBD,
marijuana usage, recreation,medical.
And it's us.
It's us.
Yeah.
We're here.
A lot of this stuff is legal.
And I've always said, Hey, areyou 18?
Are you 21?
Whatever your law is.
If at 18, if you can smoke pot,that's great at 18, you're legal
(24:01):
at 21.
If you can drink, then you'relegal.
But let's talk about what arethe household rules,
Randi (24:07):
right?
And also, what are the risks?
To not only your physicalhealth, but your mental
Jess (24:12):
health and your brain, the growth, the development.
So
Randi (24:15):
being supportive and holding up your rules and
boundaries, but also while beingnot non judge.
I can't say the word non judgemental, non judge today.
Jess (24:28):
Real quick.
I want to go back to say, whatare you showing them as your
example?
If you're a smoker, your kid ismore likely to smoke if you're a
drinker and they've grown uparound alcohol and it's been
normalized.
They're more likely to drink.
And so what are you showingthem?
Some kids grow up and they'relike, they've seen you drink and
they're like, I'm neverdrinking.
(24:48):
You're like, okay, cool.
That's great.
And some kids, they just stilltheir parents alcohol and water
down the vodka.
I mean, whatever.
We're not pointing fingers.
You have to look at yourselvesand what example you've also
been showing them and makingsure it's not the pot, column
and kettle black.
Is that, can you say that?
Randi (25:06):
Yeah, because if you are showing them.
Something and then sayingsomething else.
They're not going to have anyrespect for you.
And you're like, why don't theyrespect me?
Well, if you're being ahypocrite, I mean, nobody's
going to listen to you.
Would you listen to yourself?
Jess (25:21):
Oh yeah.
We would talk shit in aheartbeat.
Exactly.
You are also talking about howdo we support.
Our children's mental healthright now, this is so
challenging for us, but it's notabout us.
This is about them.
So how do we support themcreating
Randi (25:37):
a safe space for them?
Uh, safe space.
Jess (25:40):
You that is your job as parents to create the safe space
Randi (25:45):
and then giving them creative outlets to express
themselves.
Whatever that looks like.
If that's gaming are journaling.
time with you, whatever it isthat they love, that's kind of
like puts a spark in them,support that and let them know
that my daughter doesn't want totake the traditional route of
going to college right away.
(26:06):
And I am a very academic person.
So at first I was like, Then Iwas like, no, this is not me.
This is her.
And I want to support her andwhere she's at.
And a lot of other people whohave no influence in our life
have decided to make commentsabout it.
Jess (26:21):
Opinions are like assholes.
We all have them and they all
Randi (26:24):
stink.
Exactly.
And I don't want that to deterher from doing something because
I've always taught my kids that.
When you do something you love,that is finding true success.
It's not a paper.
It's not a degree.
It's not making sure your mentalhealth is good and making sure
you can
Jess (26:41):
take care of yourself.
You gotta be honest.
You gotta eat and pay
Randi (26:43):
your rent.
Yeah.
And still that there are stillfinancial things that you need
to do, but you can find successwith things that you love as
well.
But it doesn't have to be thetraditional
Jess (26:54):
route.
And that's why in our house, wedid it with our oldest and we
still say with our youngest is,you know, there are three things
you can go get a trade.
Those sometimes pay higher thana college degree, right?
You can go to college, you cango into the military.
You can get a job right away.
(27:15):
Our thing is we don't need aroommate.
We're good.
But for us, if you want to liveat home, you have to do one of
the three things.
You can go to trade, you can goto college, you can go into the
military.
Our oldest chose the militaryroute.
That's great.
Not what we were expecting.
And now he's ready to come back.
He's getting out.
He's done it.
(27:35):
So guess what?
Now he can go to college.
And the military pays for it.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
Awesome.
I know.
We're like, all right, good job.
And you can come back and liveat home and go to college.
We're okay with that.
Some parents are like, you're18, you're out, but it's so hard
out
Randi (27:51):
there.
It is.
And not just like the world asit is, but also like
financially, I know I used tolive in a, Jess and I come from
a very expensive state where weused to live and grew up and a
lot of.
People I know still live withparents or family and friends
(28:13):
because it's really expensive.
Jess (28:16):
And now it's their parents are living with them because
it's really
Randi (28:19):
expensive.
Or I have friends that havenever, they make really damn
good money, but they still can'tafford to buy a house.
And that's okay.
And, and that's okay.
Things don't have to look acertain way that we picture this
cookie cutter cutout.
It can come in various forms andunderstanding that and having
the empathy for that reallyhelps our kids.
(28:40):
Now, I know this is very hard,but a lot of times we feel like
our kids are pulling away anddistancing themselves from not
only us, but their own friendsand their own family.
And is that normal?
Yeah.
Jess (28:52):
That is so normal for them to just want this independence.
And they're also terrified.
As parents, we joke that your 13year old is going to go hide up
in their room.
Ha ha ha.
Yeah, they do.
They go hide up in the room.
They come down if it wasn't forfood.
Right.
We may not see them sometimes.
I think that's a normal thing atthis age too, is that they're
starting to withdraw a littlebit and hunker in their corner
(29:15):
kind of
Randi (29:15):
thing.
And I think what we talked abouta little bit earlier is creating
that distance to as a protectivebarrier to losing maybe what
they know in their comfort zoneand trying to prepare
themselves, like putting uptheir walls.
Yeah.
Jess (29:29):
And they just need to find a balance and we have to find
the balance between their needfor independence and really
maintaining the family rules andbonds.
You still live here.
You still got to unload thedishes.
I'm sorry.
That's just part
Randi (29:42):
of the rules.
That leads into what reallydoes.
Autonomy have to do with a teenand young adult's development.
Jess (29:50):
These are life skills.
My oldest used to get so madbecause his mom would always be
like, these are life skills.
You have to learn how to do thisstuff because you got to learn
how to pump your own gas.
You have to learn all thesedifferent things.
These are the things that wewant them to be able to make
decisions and be responsible.
Responsible and rely onthemselves for things.
(30:12):
Let's
Randi (30:13):
go back a little bit.
Let's define what autonomy is.
'cause I feel like that's one ofthose words that gets thrown
around, but people might notunderstand specifically what it
is.
And it means the right to governyourself, like your body, your
decisions, your mind, and owningthat.
So this is giving your teens theright to self govern.
(30:34):
It's like when
Jess (30:34):
they were little and they're like.
Put their hands on their hipsand say, you can't tell me what
to do.
You remember that?
Well, I
Randi (30:41):
used to say, yes, I can.
Yes, I can.
Jess (30:45):
Some of the things I'll say with the oldest is that if
you are not relying on usfinancially, you're not living
in our house.
We're not paying for your cellphone.
We're not paying for college oryour car insurance.
You have a hundred percentcontrol over what you do.
Yeah.
I'm not saying that.
Yeah.
It's not pay to play.
(31:05):
Yeah.
No, it's not that.
But if you're going to live inour house,
Randi (31:08):
there's boundaries,
Jess (31:09):
responsibilities, there are responsibilities and rules
and boundaries, right?
As an adult, if you're not goingto come home, can you let us
know?
So we're not worried about youbeing in a ditch.
I don't need to know what you're
Randi (31:19):
doing.
I just had a friend or reallyshe, she was struggling with
that because she was like, Ijust want her to tell me that
she's safe.
Yeah.
I don't care like about anythingelse.
I just want.
Her to be like, I am here andthat's okay.
Jess (31:34):
We just told him, be a good roommate.
This is what you do with whenyou have roommates in your
twenties, Hey, I'm going out andnot coming back.
Cool.
Thanks.
So they don't go, Hey, I haven'tseen her in four days.
What happened?
Should I call somebody?
This is just being a goodroommate as they get older.
And that's what you want them todo and learn how to balance a
checkbook or at least theiraccount.
And
Randi (31:53):
that's, that comes with these skills that we need to
teach them about being prepared.
So like age.
Yeah.
appropriate responsibilities andimportant decision making.
Like, how do I balance acheckbook?
Like, how do I pay attention tomy account balance?
Like, how do I divide a dinnerwith friends or something like
(32:18):
that?
These things that we don't thinkabout.
Well,
Jess (32:20):
that's a hard one even as adults.
Randi (32:21):
Right.
They even have apps for that.
Like how to split like apps andlike vacations and things like
that.
Because.
This is something that peoplehave struggled with.
Jess (32:30):
It is a struggle because everybody handles money
differently.
Randi (32:34):
And like how to talk to their teachers or their
professors or at their job, likehow to handle certain
situations.
These are important life skillsthat a lot of us had to learn or
still haven't learned and theyshould teach in high school, but
they don't.
And budgeting things like that,that nobody ever sat down and
(32:58):
did that with me.
And so I struggled withbudgeting and finances until I
was much older struggle becauseyou're ADHD.
Well, yeah, that's that's whatthat is.
But yeah, but still, I didn'thave any skills to.
Back up my brain that was all bythis,
Jess (33:15):
but with, with that, I like one of the points you just
made was that don't wait untilyou're the second semester of
senior year to all of a suddenthrow all of these things onto
your child.
Let's do all these life hacksright now.
Yeah.
That's not going to work.
We started in eighth grade.
This was eighth grade this year.
(33:35):
I said, you need to every yearat the beginning of the year,
I've sent an email saying, thisis my child.
My child is ADHD.
These are her, what she needs,what she excels at.
These are the accommodations per504.
Right?
Let me know if you have anyquestions.
Well, this year I said, you'reeighth grade.
Now you need to send it.
Wait, what?
Or
Randi (33:54):
have that conversation with your teachers.
I
Jess (33:57):
wanted an email and a conversation.
So we sat down and she sent it.
Why do I have to do this?
I said, cause in four or fiveyears, you'll be in college and
you're going to have to learn toadvocate for yourself.
I can't be your mommy on yourcollege campus.
Randi (34:11):
Exactly.
Or at your job or whateverhappens, you have
Jess (34:15):
to learn.
I can't tell your boss he's ajerk and that this, I said, you
have to learn to do this.
And so start earlier.
And that's empowerment.
Yeah.
Start earlier.
So you're not dumping all ofthis senior year going, well,
you're going to be 18 in threemonths.
What are you going to do?
Randi (34:30):
Yeah.
And adding more fuel to the fireand their anxiety.
But that's just going to make itworse.
Speaking
Jess (34:36):
of anxiety, if you're worried about their behavior,
what do you do?
I know we talked about it alittle bit before, but Randy,
what do you do when you'reworried about your daughter's
Randi (34:46):
anxiety or you're worried?
I trust my intuition about it.
And then I reach out to peoplethat can support me through
this.
And that's usually a doctor,therapist, counselor, a school
counselor, a teacher.
Or a psychiatrist that can helpguide me to the right things
that she needs that I might notbe able to give her.
Jess (35:07):
Yeah.
Or maybe you just need to getyour own Xanax and you can not
have the anxiety that she'sbringing up.
Exactly.
I'm kidding guys.
I'm kidding.
Randi (35:16):
Kind of.
So with all these things, themost important thing is keep
that communication open.
And empathetic listening andreally validate how their
feelings.
We all need to have our feelingsvalidated.
That doesn't change whetheryou're 5 or you're 55 or you're
105.
And when it comes down to it,our jobs as a parent or
(35:40):
caregiver is to show support andto love unconditionally.
Unconditionally means.
Conditions.
Conditions.
Yeah.
You don't want to gaslight.
You don't want to be anarcissist.
You don't want to say, I alwaystell my daughter sometimes, I
don't like you, but I love you.
Jess (35:58):
And I would rather her say, I don't like your behavior
right now, but I love you nomatter what.
And I love you no matter what.
No buts.
And I love you.
Cause remember your kids rightnow are scared and terrified.
They have been working so hard.
So hard to get to this pointand, oh my gosh, it's so much to
do still.
(36:19):
And then there's theseexpectations and they're not,
like you said, your daughter'snot doing the traditional route.
She couldn't be comparingherself to other kids.
Well, they're going to collegeand I don't want to.
Exactly.
Randi (36:29):
That's another thing is they have their own peer
pressure from this.
Their friends are doing certainthings or so and so is going to
Ivy league or so and so is not,or so and so is going to trade
school or so and so is.
Whatever.
And comparing, am I doing theright thing?
Am I doing the wrong thing?
Am I, do I want to do this?
Do I want, and let's be honest,our minds change all the time.
(36:52):
So maybe that path you startedon isn't the path you want to
take the day of graduation.
And maybe they're fearful totell you, Hey, I decided I don't
want to do
Jess (37:00):
that.
I'm telling you.
I am telling you, ours, he wasgoing to go to a four year
college.
He was going to do this.
And then all of a sudden hesaid, I'm going to go in the
military.
And we were like, wait, what?
What?
You don't like
Randi (37:13):
our rules?
360, what just happened?
You don't like
Jess (37:15):
our rules, but you want to go to the military.
Okay.
And then the next thing youknow, we had a Marine person
showing up in our driveway andhe calls me and he's like, Jess,
Jess, the Marine was in mydriveway, in the driveway when I
got home today.
And, and I was like, Therecruiter.
What?
I was like, you're not even 18yet.
He was like, can you help?
(37:36):
I was like, yeah.
And we talked about it.
I said, how can I support you?
He was like, I'm not ready.
I don't need him showing up atmy house.
So I called him up and I waslike, dude, he's not 18 yet.
Too much.
Don't show up at my driveway.
If we want you, we will reachout to you, which I get it.
They're recruiters, but he waslike, that freaked him out.
(37:57):
I was like, yeah, it wasn't thethought.
We thought you were going to gothat path, but
Randi (38:02):
Hey.
And so just being able to pivotwith what they decide and go
with.
I changed my mind 500 timesabout what I'm going to eat for
the afternoon.
So it's let alone a life, whatcan feel like a life altering
decision.
And did I take the path?
I, I was one of those peoplethat planned out.
Every aspect of my life, and Ihave this 5 year, 10 year, 15
(38:24):
year plan.
Didn't any of that happen?
F no.
I know.
Jess (38:27):
If anybody told me that I would be sitting here doing a
podcast in Idaho, I would havebeen like, oh, what?
Randi (38:32):
Right.
Or that I would be apsychotherapist.
I would have probably, well, Iwanted to be an art therapist.
So it's not like that far off.
But I ended up having to take mymom got ill and I ended up
having to take a huge gapbetween college and I didn't get
where I wanted to go untilprobably 10 years later.
And I was so hard on myself.
And that's the thing you have tounderstand.
(38:52):
Our kids are probably havingthis inner dialogue in their
mind and they're probablybeating themselves up over
things.
So we don't need to probablybeat them up too about
Jess (39:02):
it.
No, just hug them and tell themyou love them,
Randi (39:05):
celebrate their achievements, whether they're
small or big, just the littlethings to, to let them know that
you're not just harping onthings that are like negative,
but find the positive in thatand really cherish those things
that make them unique,
Jess (39:18):
find other things to talk to them about.
Besides, did you take out thetrash?
Did you do the dishes?
Did you turn in your homework?
Yeah.
Find something else to haveconversations.
Pull them out of their room orgo join them in their room.
Mm hmm.
Randi (39:31):
Yeah.
Sometimes I'll just go and I'llsit on my daughter's bed and
she's like, what are you doing?
And I'm like, it's so weird.
And I'm like, I'm here, but theycan come in our room all the
time and just hang out.
She'll steal our makeup.
She comes in my room.
Night and we have these fullconversations and her dad is
like, what is happening rightnow?
And why is she and I'm like, I,I never dissuade that because I
(39:52):
love it.
I cherish that time and it helpsthis period when we're
struggling and frustrated as aparent or as a caregiver, I just
am like, okay, I look forward tothat
Jess (40:03):
stuff.
I think my daughter gets weirdedout too.
When I go and lay in her bed,she's got all these squish
mellows all over and it's socomfortable.
And she's like.
What are you doing?
Yeah.
Randi (40:11):
Why are you laying on my bed?
Why are you touching my stuff?
I'm like, I just want to behere.
Cause it's
Jess (40:15):
soft and it's great.
And I said, this is really fun.
Yeah.
Randi (40:19):
Cause your room's super cute and mine doesn't have a
bunch of cute stuffed animalsand things all over the place.
No, I'm an adult.
Yeah.
Jess (40:25):
Boring.
Remember that when your teen isnavigating this last semester of
high school and all of thesechallenges that they are
throwing at you, this is a verynatural process.
Randi (40:39):
It's normal.
We're normalizing
Jess (40:41):
it.
It is normal.
They are not.
Trying to be a holes, theyreally are just having all of
this, like Randy said, theseinner dialogues,
Randi (40:51):
all these feelings and hormones and stress.
And I just want to say, I hopethat this normalized it for you,
because when Jess talked to meabout this.
I took such a big sigh of reliefand was able to step back and
also give myself perspectiveabout it and my teenager as
well.
(41:11):
And it helped as a whole, justbeing able to talk about that.
I wasn't alone in this.
And yes, even us as therapists,we still struggle with that on
the daily.
Jess (41:20):
You're not alone.
This is a very normal processand it's going to kick up some
anxiety in the house.
Even the dogs are probablyacting out at this point.
Right.
This is just normal guys.
You get through this.
Randi (41:33):
You will.
And we hope this episode hashelped you today.
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