April 1, 2025 • 32 mins
Are big changes coming to the way we pay for college?
In this episode, host Melissa Joy, CFP®, sits down with Ann Garcia, CFP®, and author of How to Pay for College, to discuss the shifting landscape of higher education. With potential policy changes on the horizon, including modifications to student loans, grants, and university funding, families need to be more strategic than ever in planning for college expenses.
Melissa and Ann explore the role of the Department of Education, the impact of proposed Parent PLUS loan eliminations, taxation of scholarships and endowments, and how federal research funding plays a pivotal role in the U.S. economy. Ann provides valuable insights on smart financial planning strategies for families navigating the cost of higher education and shares actionable steps for making informed decisions.
Key Takeaways:
✅ Potential Changes in Higher Education – How proposed federal policies may impact college affordability and financial aid.
✅ Understanding the Role of the Department of Education – What it funds, why it matters, and what could happen if it’s restructured or eliminated.
✅ The Risks of Taxing Scholarships & Endowments – Who could be most affected and why financial aid could become even more limited.
✅ Parent PLUS Loans on the Chopping Block? – The pros and cons of eliminating these loans and what it could mean for families.
✅ Why Research Universities Matter – How federally funded research drives economic growth and innovation, from medical breakthroughs to technological advancements.
✅ Financial Planning for College – Smart strategies for families, including using net price calculators, alternative education pathways, and financial aid negotiations.
✅ The Importance of Open Conversations About Money – How to discuss finances with your kids and prepare them for responsible decision-making.
Learn More About Paying for College
The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only. No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https:...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast.
I'm Melissa Joy, a certifiedfinancial planner and the
founder of Pearl Planning.
My goal is to help youstreamline and organize your
finances, navigate big moneydecisions with confidence and be
strategic in order to grow yourwealth.
As a woman, you work hard foryour money and I'm here to help
(00:21):
you make the most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
And I'm here to help you makethe most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
Just a quick note before wedive in the information that we
share is meant to educate andinspire, not serve as
personalized financial advice.
Everyone's situation is unique,so be sure to consult with your
own financial professional forguidance that fits your life.
And just so you know, theopinions shared in this podcast
(00:44):
are my own and those of myguests, and they don't
necessarily represent those ofany organizations that I'm
affiliated with.
For more important disclosures,please go to our webpage at
pearlplancom.
Now let's get started.
Well, I think the theme for2025 is the times they are
changing.
Well, I think the theme for2025 is the times they are
(01:07):
changing, and we're going todive deep into the topic of
higher education today and whatcould be coming around the
corner when it comes to fundingand paying for college, what
that means for institutions andwhat you should do about it.
I am thrilled to bring back theresident expert of the Women's
Money Wisdom Podcast, a regularcontributor, anne Garcia.
(01:30):
She has helped thousands offamilies save millions of
dollars on college.
She's a certified financialplanner and the author of how to
Pay for College, and she's themom of two twins, or of twins,
who's graduated debt-free fromcollege.
And welcome back to the podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.
Well, I'm fortunate to consideryou both a friend as well as a
(01:55):
terrific resource when it comesto advice on paying for college,
which is an important part ofthe financial planning work that
we both do, which is animportant part of the financial
planning work that we both do.
And we were texting back andforth about other things and you
said, hey, do you want to?
You know, should we talk aboutwhat might be changing with new
proposals in the Trumpadministration?
And I was like, heck, yes,that's what my clients are
(02:16):
asking about.
So thanks for coming.
What are you talking to peopleabout and thinking about right
now?
Yeah, you know, it's a greatquestion, because a lot of this
is just speculation at thispoint, but I think you know the
big heading of.
If we get rid of the Departmentof Education, some of its
functions will continue, somewill not.
Those that continue would behoused elsewhere and elsewhere
(02:40):
might have different prioritiesthan the Department of Education
, whose mission is to educateAmerican kids and adults.
Frankly, as part of its mission, and so I think overall, what
that means is it's moreimportant than ever for families
to be making good financialchoices about their kids'
(03:02):
educational pathways.
Because we could lose access toParent PLUS loans.
There could be changes in howscholarships are done.
If endowments are taxed, as hasbeen proposed, there's likely
to be a spillover effect onfinancial aid dollars.
So there's lots of ways thatthe proposals in front could
(03:23):
have a dramatic impact on thecollege landscape and there's
other ways where the impact islikely to be minimal.
Well, let's start, if you can,because I always learn something
when I'm talking to you,because you spent so much time
really getting into the weeds ofthis higher education subject,
into the weeds of this highereducation subject.
(03:43):
So the Department of Ed somepeople may be like oh why would
we need a federal kind ofcurriculum creator?
Because we've got state andlocal school boards, et cetera.
But what is the actual functionof the Department of Education
when it comes to kind of theworld of higher education?
Yeah, and the Department ofEducation plays a much larger
(04:07):
role in higher ed than it doesin K-12 education.
You know, the vast majorityover 90% of K-12 education
funding comes from states andprivate sources.
The biggest source of federalfunding at the K-12 level is for
free and reduced lunch and HeadStart.
So the Department of Educationplays a really minimal role and
most of what it does is pick upprograms that local communities
(04:31):
don't have the resources tosupport, things like special ed
programs for rural communitiesto provide educational access
and programs for high povertyareas.
When it comes to higher ed,there's several functions that
the Department of Education does.
You know they run the FAFSA,the Application for Federal
(04:54):
Student Aid.
They have student loan programsand student loan forgiveness
programs.
They provide education fundingin the form of Pell Grants,
work-study and some other grants.
They also have an importantrole in research and
particularly around the areas ofoutcomes.
So is it, you know, if youinvest money in this educational
(05:16):
pathway, is that likely to leadto benefits over the long term?
So there's a program called awebsite called College Scorecard
, where families can go and lookat what the actual outcomes
have been for students whoattend specific schools and even
specific majors at thoseschools.
I don't want to assume, butwould those outcomes be like hey
, what's the graduation rate ofthis program?
(05:38):
Or job placement rate, thosetypes of things, it's all of
that.
So it's graduation rate, it'sjob placement rate, it's student
loan payoff, it's how muchstudent loan debt did they incur
as a student?
So really great information forfamilies who are trying to make
informed decisions about thisvery major, very major purchase
that they're.
You know that they're, thatthey're considering.
(05:59):
And it lets you make apples toapples comparisons.
You know, let's say you'regoing into a nursing program and
you have an option, or you wantto be a nurse and you have an
option of a direct admit nursingprogram at a private school
that costs a little bit moreversus going to a public school
that costs less but it's not adirect admit program.
So you may or may not actuallyend up in the nursing program
(06:19):
and you can make those kinds ofcomparisons and say is it worth
the investment in this privateschool versus versus the public,
versus the public school.
So really a terrific resource.
And you know, as part of theresearch, as part of the
research arm, there's the, theIPEDS data, which is the
(06:40):
integrated post-secondaryeducation data system, and
that's where colleges arerequired to report net price by
income for their students.
It's where they're required toreport how many students are
receiving any form of financialaid, how much debt they're
incurring, what the three-yearwhat's it called, the three-year
(07:05):
rates of non-paying their debts, their student loan debts,
their graduation rates all kindsof really important data that
we as consumers should bedemanding of institutions that
want to charge us at this ratefor our education.
And that's data that feedsthings like net price
(07:30):
calculators and other tools thatfamilies can use to figure out
what it's likely to cost them togo to any specific college.
Well, you've really emphasizedin our previous conversations
how a net price calculator canhelp you sort through the weeds
when you see a private schoolthat may have a price tag of
$55,000.
And then you plug it into thenet price calculator with your
(07:53):
personal information and it mayindicate that you would
typically receive grants orfinancial aid.
But all of that is incumbent ondata that's provided by the
schools to the federalgovernment to get back into that
net price calculator withauditing right instead of just
(08:14):
self-reporting.
Exactly, and that's the reallyimportant piece of all of this,
is there's an auditing functionon this data, because there is
other.
You know, ipeds data is onedata set, but it is mandatory
that colleges that receivefederal funding provide their
data there.
There's a second set of datacalled the common data set, and,
and that is a private entitythat collects data and it's
voluntary for colleges toparticipate in that.
(08:35):
They do a great job of makingthat information available.
You know the website collegedata that uses.
That is a lot more usable thanthe, than the iPads site,
college navigator, but part ofwhy that works is there's a
check on that data in the formof the of the mandatory iPads
(08:55):
data.
That is.
That is that is collected.
There's another important pieceof the education.
There's another important pieceof the education pie,
specifically the dollars of it.
That's not the Department ofEducation, but that is federal
research dollars, and the 2025federal research budget is over
(09:15):
$150 billion.
A large portion of that goes toour research universities that
they use for basic research, andthe reason that's pertinent to
undergraduates is a couple ofthings, you know.
One is it funds a lot ofscience labs.
It funds a lot of professors,but also a lot of colleges
(09:37):
include research grants in theirfinancial aid packages and a
lot of students get jobs workingon these research projects.
So there's two pieces of iton-campus employment and
financial aid that flow fromthose research dollars that
we've seen with the NationalInstitute of Health Research
(09:59):
cutbacks is already impactinguniversities in a pretty
significant way.
Well, we're going to talk aboutthat in a second and it's
really important to many of ourlisteners because, as you know,
our location is just outside ofAnn Arbor, michigan.
The largest employer in ourcounty, washtenaw County, is the
University of Michigan.
So, and including, you know,the research functions, the
(10:21):
health system, etc.
So this is really important tomany of our listeners.
But before we get to that, Ialso want to talk about
proposals to changes in grants.
So you mentioned, or fundingjust in general.
So you mentioned Parent PLUSloans, which I don't think
they're either yours nor myfavorite ways to finance college
(10:41):
, because they are very punitiveto the families.
You pay a lot of interest andyou know you can end up retiring
with those loans.
It's just a difficult bill topay.
It's the fastest growingsegment of student loan debt.
It's so necessary for so manyfamilies, though, because
they're behind the eight balland weren't able, because of
(11:03):
circumstances and a variety ofreasons, or just you know, the
ability to make a plan.
They weren't able to save forcollege.
So they're sitting here with abig bill that they don't have
the cashflow or budget to payfor, and those are at risk.
Is that correct?
That that is correct.
I mean, no one has saidspecifically these are the
(11:37):
programs that we would cut, butthat has always been one of the
ones that federal direct studentloan, and with the direct
student loan a student canborrow $27,000 over four years.
With the plus loan you canborrow up to the full cost of
attendance.
And so, getting rid of plusloans, there are definitely some
pros to that, because we seeall the time people getting into
(12:00):
tons of trouble with ParentPLUS Loans, and oftentimes that
comes not from intention butfrom lack of awareness, when
they read a financial aid offer,that a Parent PLUS Loan is part
of the financial aid package.
So I would say getting rid ofParent PLUS Loans might not be
(12:21):
the worst thing in the world,because, absent that funding
source, it could force collegesto either reduce prices or
increase financial aid awardsThrough other sources.
Through other sources, becauseas long as you have people who
are willing to pay any price fortheir kids to attend their
(12:41):
dream school, there's noincentive.
You know, there's no incentiveor pressure on the colleges to
change the pricing Right.
And certainly the financial aiddepartment has an incentive to
perhaps convince a likely lessinformed consumer that this is
the right way to go by, justlike.
You know, here's the pathway.
(13:02):
There's no choices whenactually there may be.
Yeah, here you can do this.
Here's how we close this gapRight.
So other proposals I've heard, Ithink, are taxing scholarships.
Tell me more about this and howit might work.
So taxing scholarships would beextraordinarily punitive to the
(13:23):
kids who most need access tocollege.
You know the people who get thelargest scholarships are
students with high financialneed.
Now, when you tax a scholarship.
So the way scholarships worknow is, if it's scholarships
that cover tuition fees andrequired supplies like books,
(13:43):
computer etc, etc.
Are tax free.
Scholarships that cover roomand board are taxable to the
student already.
Now the proposal is thatinstitutional scholarships
covering anything would betaxable to the student.
Thing would be taxable to thestudent.
Now one of the big problems withthat, besides the fact that
(14:03):
this is a large amount oftaxable income for a student I
mean think of a student with afull scholarship to Stanford.
That is $95,000 of scholarshipevery year, and students whose
family incomes are below$200,000 are likely to be
getting that type of ascholarship if they're admitted
to those schools.
(14:25):
Now scholarships are consideredunearned income by the IRS and
there's a big distinctionbetween earned income and
unearned income for minors whoare dependents on their parents'
tax return, and that is thatunearned income is subject to
the kiddie tax, which means it'staxed at the parent's rate, not
(14:45):
at the child's rate.
So a couple thousand dollars istaxed at the child's rate.
Any amount in excess of that istaxed at the parent's rate.
Now a parent who makes $150,000, $175,000 is probably in the
22% federal tax bracket and sothat student is paying 22% tax
(15:08):
on $95,000.
Where do they come up with thatmoney?
I don't know how that actuallyis.
$20,000 a year, I don't knowhow many thousand dollars a year
.
Yeah, really difficult tounderstand to take in.
And so you know, we'll justhave to wait and see, because
(15:28):
all of these, as of now I willsay we're recording at the
beginning of March and it's afew weeks lag before we release
the episode.
So who knows what else is onthe table by the time we get
there?
But I do love that we're ableto talk about the real world
concepts of what could bechanging, you know.
Another proposal is that.
So you know, I'm thinking,using University of Michigan as
(15:52):
an example there's a giantendowment that tends to
accumulate and get bigger.
You know one that tends toaccumulate and get bigger.
You know one you know kind ofidea would be okay.
If there's less financial aidfederally, perhaps there's more
usage of an endowment.
But there's also tax proposals.
(16:14):
When it comes to taxing theendowments as well, right, and
so the proposal is, I want tosay it's a 35% tax on unused
endowment funds, which is asignificant amount, and I know
for a lot of people it's like ohwell, that's just money that's
sitting there.
Why not tax it if it doesn'tget used?
(16:35):
One of the big issues withendowments is a large portion of
endowment gifts, so money goinginto the end is gifted for
specific purposes.
It may be a building, it may bean on-campus activity, it may
be a department, it may be aspecific function.
It may be a research program.
So a large portion of everycollege's endowment can only be
used for specific purposes.
(16:55):
The biggest use of unrestrictedfunds, you know, so gifts that
people say, use it for whateveryou want, is financial aid.
And so when a tax gets appliedto all of this, the one
discretionary area in thecollege's budget is financial
aid.
I don't want to, and that'sgoing to again impact the
(17:17):
students with the highestfinancial need.
I don't want to, and that'sgoing to again impact the
students with the highestfinancial financial need.
I don't want to act likeendowments are this just
universal good and nothingshould be done.
I feel like there is a lot morethat colleges should be doing
with their endowments to promotetheir mission of education and
research and making the world abetter place, informed citizenry
(17:40):
and all of that.
That's not to, you know.
So I'm not solely defendingendowments.
I am just, you know, pointingout that the people who are
going to be hurt most by attackson endowments are not
universities.
It's students with highfinancial need who would like to
attend those universities.
Yeah, there's a lot to take in,because you try to say, okay, if
(18:02):
something happens here, thenwhere could we go to fill that
hole or gap.
And then there's extra.
Well, it's a complication ifwe're also thinking that that's
a source of funding for thefederal government.
If we could just pivot for amoment, why don't we talk about
the role of researchinstitutions in our society?
Because it's not, as youmentioned, wholly the Department
(18:25):
of Ed.
There are other fundingmechanisms from the federal
government that go to what I seeas somewhat the American
success story and the reasonwhere we've been considered a
leader in the world in so manyareas, including our economy,
but especially in the sciencesand medical fields.
So you know, I'm sitting in theshadow, where I'm at, of a
(18:48):
research institution.
We know them around the countryand what are.
What has been the role of theseinstitutions in our country,
whether it's for, you know,educating leaders.
But also you know the outcome,the research outcomes that have
happened in the past.
Yeah, it's such a greatquestion.
(19:09):
I think it's one that we justdon't don't really think a lot
about.
But you know, if you listen tothe news media, you'd think that
colleges primarily servewealthy families and that
they're just funnels ofprivilege from one end.
I'm a sports fan, so are youtoo, so you know, like football
Saturdays.
That's why.
That's why we love our schools,right?
Yeah, yeah, we're public school.
Yeah, go, blue and gold.
(19:35):
Yes, there you go.
You know, the truth is we allbenefit from our university
system.
You know, like you were saying,you know American ingenuity.
Our research universities areabsolutely the economic engine
of our country and when you lookat the wealthiest regions of
(19:56):
our country, they're allanchored by research
institutions.
You know, in Boston area, inthe New York area, research
Triangle Park, austin, texas,bay Area, seattle, you know all
of those are homes.
Your area in Michigan, all ofthose are homes to research
institutions.
And you know where federaldollars come in and are married
(20:19):
with academics and scientistswho can create, you know, the
next generation of things thatwe need and things that we want
and things that we use.
So there's this incrediblepower of bringing together
federal research funding and ourscientists and academics.
I mean, if you saw the movieOppenheimer, you saw exactly how
(20:43):
that works and you know we candebate the morality of the
Manhattan Project, all we want,but that's another episode,
right?
But that's just one example ofthe power of combining federal
research dollars with Americaningenuity, of combining federal
research dollars with Americaningenuity.
(21:04):
You know if you or a loved onesurvived cancer.
You've personally benefitedfrom our research university
system.
If you use the internet, youhave benefited from our research
universities, and that's to saynothing of the communities that
are funded, that are employedby research dollars.
The problem with basic research, the kind that's done at
(21:24):
academic institutions, is itisn't profitable, but it is the
foundation for the technologiesthat can then be commercialized
into the products and servicesthat we use, that create wealth,
that create jobs, that buildnew economies.
If you think of DNA sequencing,it took decades of scientific
(21:45):
research and billions of dollarsprimarily federal dollars to
get CRISPR and other suchtechnologies to the point where
we now have hundreds ofcompanies using it to develop
life-saving medications, toemploy people at all levels of
the corporate function, who thengo out and spend dollars in
their communities.
(22:06):
It's so true.
That's where I really think ofwhen you take some space and
time to think about the role ofresearch institutions and
federally funded research in theeconomy that we have, which you
know it really matters to me,my clients, our listeners.
You know the functioning of theUS economy, but if you were to
(22:28):
look at any of the early stageresearch projects, for example,
seeking out gene sequencing forcancer, for example, or
self-driving vehicles, earlystages at an engineering
institution.
Space exploration really was,you know, started the ability in
(22:51):
, you know, the astrophysicsdepartments.
They spin into kind ofsemi-public, semi-private, you
know, kind of cooperation inmany cases where there's early
venture capital startups thatare coming from
university-funded research.
And there's reasons that youknow your hometown, silicon
(23:13):
Valley, is close.
You know that places close toStanford and Berkeley have been
kind of the hot bed ofinnovation and you know we
probably could delineate theinitial AI that were revolution.
Back to universities, same, youknow there's a reason that the
(23:34):
hub of venture capital in one ofthem in the Midwest is Ann
Arbor, because of the access toacademics, research and
collaboration, cooperation.
And so it's when you thinkabout, like NIH grants, you
think about funding, we'reessentially thinking about an
infrastructure, a public perhaps, infrastructure that private
(23:54):
markets are able to capitalizeupon and that is additive to the
economy.
So that's a really importantand interesting consideration in
terms of proposed changes thatyou know, in essence it's an
investment in an intellectthat's necessary for innovation.
Yeah, and I mean thegovernment's job is not to be a
(24:14):
business, it's to do the thingsthat business doesn't do so that
business can do what it needsto do.
You know, and one of thosefunctions is educating our kids
so that they're prepared to be apart of the workforce, whether
that's through college, whetherthat's through apprenticeship
programs, through the trades,through other skilled you know,
(24:36):
skilled training programs.
Companies don't do that, no,but they benefit from having
skilled work, a skilledworkforce.
So you know, this is, this ispart of it.
When you're a financial planner, you want to be able to hire
people that work on your team,who have some of the background,
so you don't have to start, youknow, kind of your
(24:57):
apprenticeship program so farback that you know you're saying
what is a stock versus what isa bond, things like that, a
hundred percent.
But you know, getting back tothe original part of our
(25:18):
conversation, you know it isMarch, which means that families
of high school seniors arestarting to get acceptance
letters from colleges.
Really good choices that willwork for your families, whether
or not you can take out a ParentPLUS loan, whatever happens
with scholarships, that you canstill make a go of it.
And you know be reaching out tofinancial aid offices at
(25:42):
colleges and asking them whathappens to my package if any of
these changes you know gothrough.
What are the risks to me ofthese changes?
Well, I think that gets back toone of the things that, whether
it's funding, education,preparing for retirement, in so
(26:02):
many areas of financial planningand personal finance, one of
the most important things to dois focus on what you can control
so you can't impact theoutcomes necessarily of some of
these big headline potentialchanges.
What can you do If you havesomeone who is going to be
(26:24):
graduating this year?
You can fill out that FAFSA, youcan make a solid game plan and
you can discuss the cost ofcollege and the trade-offs of
different choices with your kidwho's going to school.
And if you've got some moretime, I think that this would
indicate like, hey, if educationis important to you, you may
need to factor in more of yourpersonal balance sheet as an
(26:47):
investment in that, and so thereis no time like today to start
planning and discussing that, sothat you're prepared for any
contingency.
Yeah, 100%.
And I think it's reallyimportant for parents to think
what are your actual goals inthis process, because it's easy
to think my goal is for my kidto go to an Ivy League school,
(27:08):
but instead of thinking aboutthose four years.
Think about the 25-year-old youwant to create, the 30-year-old
you want to create, you know, isthis someone who has an
overwhelming amount of studentloan debt?
Is it someone who took sixyears to graduate?
Or is it someone who's activelyengaged in a career, maybe
starting a life, looking atbuying a home, you know?
(27:39):
So look beyond what's that namethat you're shooting for and
think of who that person is thatyou're trying to create and how
do you best marshal yourresources to create that person.
And maybe it's consideringdifferent pathways.
You know, maybe it's.
If your student is taking a lotof AP and IB classes apply to
colleges that will give youcredit, so maybe you can get out
in three years so that you canlimit the time span that you're
(28:12):
spending in college.
Maybe it's looking at yourfamily's budget and saying how
can we carve out a little bitmore money to save for college
to make sure that our kid hasthe opportunities that we want
them to have?
It's, you know, it's probablywhen you look at borrowing.
It's looking at what can thedirect student loan accomplish
for our family, as opposed towhat's the universe of borrowing
(28:32):
that we can do.
Well, I think that is soimportant and you're describing
different opportunities forflexibility in a college plan
and you know you have a newadult that you're making these
decisions with, or soon to be,so make sure that you're
incorporating the conversations.
That can be difficult.
You know it isn't always easyto tell your kid that there's a
(28:53):
limit, there's boundaries, thatthere may not be enough to do
everything they've ever dreamedof doing.
But I also think those are someof the most important lessons
that I learned growing up in afamily where I did need to take
on some student loans.
We did have.
You know, there were trade-offsin terms of where I went for
spring break, things like that.
So don't hesitate to initiate,you know, your kid into kind of
(29:16):
the adult world with somegrown-up talk about the
decisions that you're making sothat you collectively can make
the best choices for yourcurrent kid as well as your
future family.
That's such a great point andyou know, I think one of the
best things that we can do toprepare ourselves and our kids
for these college conversationsis just to normalize talking
(29:36):
about money, and that doesn'tmean telling your kids what your
salary is, but maybe it meansexplaining why you choose to
spend money on certain thingsand not on others.
Or you know whether it's goingout for dinner, whether it's
taking a vacation.
You know, sometimes it's hey,we prioritize spending time
together as a family, withoutthe distractions of our everyday
(29:58):
life, and so we spend money onvacations.
But that also means thatbecause our money's going there,
there's less available forthese other things.
Yes, I love that conversationand I just can't emphasize
enough.
It may feel like you're lessthan because your neighbors can
afford to do more.
It is preparing forresponsibility to in some cases
(30:23):
have to say no and explainingwhy and explaining the reality
and also emphasizing priorities.
If it's, we're not taking thatvacation because we really are
focusing on being prepared topay for school.
Or, you know, mom's job isn'tnecessarily secure because it's
somewhat dependent on federalfunding.
Those types of things, when doneright, when not just like the
(30:47):
big scare conversation buthappening in the day-to-day with
you know, thought and care forstress and anxiety that could be
initiated with the discussions,can be hugely valuable and pay
off over decades A hundredpercent.
Yeah Well, anne, we know you'regoing to continue to be, unless
(31:08):
you tell me, no, you are ago-to source.
I strongly recommend your bookhow to Pay for College, and also
whenever you're talking, I'mlistening.
You are always dropping greatwisdom on LinkedIn, but where
else can people find you?
So my book, as you mentioned,is how to Pay for College and my
(31:28):
website is alsohowtopayforcollegecom, so those
are the best places to find me,as well as on LinkedIn, where
I'm Ann Garcia, crp, and thankyou so much for joining us.
We will keep everyone informedas we know how things are
evolving and, as always, focuson what you can control.
Focus on the beautifulopportunities that you have in
(31:52):
educating your child.
You can do this.
It just takes a flexiblemindset.
Thank you for listening to theWomen's Money Wisdom Podcast.
If you found value in thisepisode, the best way you can
(32:14):
support the podcast is toforward an episode to a friend
or leave a review.
Go to pearlplancom and thepodcast link to get all the
resources and links mentioned.
Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast.
I'm Melissa Joy, a certifiedfinancial planner and the
founder of Pearl Planning.
My goal is to help youstreamline and organize your
finances, navigate big moneydecisions with confidence and be
strategic in order to grow yourwealth.
As a woman, you work hard foryour money and I'm here to help
(00:21):
you make the most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
And I'm here to help you makethe most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
Just a quick note before wedive in the information that we
share is meant to educate andinspire, not serve as
personalized financial advice.
Everyone's situation is unique,so be sure to consult with your
own financial professional forguidance that fits your life.
And just so you know, theopinions shared in this podcast
(00:44):
are my own and those of myguests, and they don't
necessarily represent those ofany organizations that I'm
affiliated with.
For more important disclosures,please go to our webpage at
pearlplancom.
Now let's get started.
Well, I think the theme for2025 is the times they are
changing.
Well, I think the theme for2025 is the times they are
(01:07):
changing, and we're going todive deep into the topic of
higher education today and whatcould be coming around the
corner when it comes to fundingand paying for college, what
that means for institutions andwhat you should do about it.
I am thrilled to bring back theresident expert of the Women's
Money Wisdom Podcast, a regularcontributor, anne Garcia.
(01:30):
She has helped thousands offamilies save millions of
dollars on college.
She's a certified financialplanner and the author of how to
Pay for College, and she's themom of two twins, or of twins,
who's graduated debt-free fromcollege.
And welcome back to the podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.
Well, I'm fortunate to consideryou both a friend as well as a
(01:55):
terrific resource when it comesto advice on paying for college,
which is an important part ofthe financial planning work that
we both do, which is animportant part of the financial
planning work that we both do.
And we were texting back andforth about other things and you
said, hey, do you want to?
You know, should we talk aboutwhat might be changing with new
proposals in the Trumpadministration?
And I was like, heck, yes,that's what my clients are
(02:16):
asking about.
So thanks for coming.
What are you talking to peopleabout and thinking about right
now?
Yeah, you know, it's a greatquestion, because a lot of this
is just speculation at thispoint, but I think you know the
big heading of.
If we get rid of the Departmentof Education, some of its
functions will continue, somewill not.
Those that continue would behoused elsewhere and elsewhere
(02:40):
might have different prioritiesthan the Department of Education
, whose mission is to educateAmerican kids and adults.
Frankly, as part of its mission, and so I think overall, what
that means is it's moreimportant than ever for families
to be making good financialchoices about their kids'
(03:02):
educational pathways.
Because we could lose access toParent PLUS loans.
There could be changes in howscholarships are done.
If endowments are taxed, as hasbeen proposed, there's likely
to be a spillover effect onfinancial aid dollars.
So there's lots of ways thatthe proposals in front could
(03:23):
have a dramatic impact on thecollege landscape and there's
other ways where the impact islikely to be minimal.
Well, let's start, if you can,because I always learn something
when I'm talking to you,because you spent so much time
really getting into the weeds ofthis higher education subject,
into the weeds of this highereducation subject.
(03:43):
So the Department of Ed somepeople may be like oh why would
we need a federal kind ofcurriculum creator?
Because we've got state andlocal school boards, et cetera.
But what is the actual functionof the Department of Education
when it comes to kind of theworld of higher education?
Yeah, and the Department ofEducation plays a much larger
(04:07):
role in higher ed than it doesin K-12 education.
You know, the vast majorityover 90% of K-12 education
funding comes from states andprivate sources.
The biggest source of federalfunding at the K-12 level is for
free and reduced lunch and HeadStart.
So the Department of Educationplays a really minimal role and
most of what it does is pick upprograms that local communities
(04:31):
don't have the resources tosupport, things like special ed
programs for rural communitiesto provide educational access
and programs for high povertyareas.
When it comes to higher ed,there's several functions that
the Department of Education does.
You know they run the FAFSA,the Application for Federal
(04:54):
Student Aid.
They have student loan programsand student loan forgiveness
programs.
They provide education fundingin the form of Pell Grants,
work-study and some other grants.
They also have an importantrole in research and
particularly around the areas ofoutcomes.
So is it, you know, if youinvest money in this educational
(05:16):
pathway, is that likely to leadto benefits over the long term?
So there's a program called awebsite called College Scorecard
, where families can go and lookat what the actual outcomes
have been for students whoattend specific schools and even
specific majors at thoseschools.
I don't want to assume, butwould those outcomes be like hey
, what's the graduation rate ofthis program?
(05:38):
Or job placement rate, thosetypes of things, it's all of
that.
So it's graduation rate, it'sjob placement rate, it's student
loan payoff, it's how muchstudent loan debt did they incur
as a student?
So really great information forfamilies who are trying to make
informed decisions about thisvery major, very major purchase
that they're.
You know that they're, thatthey're considering.
(05:59):
And it lets you make apples toapples comparisons.
You know, let's say you'regoing into a nursing program and
you have an option, or you wantto be a nurse and you have an
option of a direct admit nursingprogram at a private school
that costs a little bit moreversus going to a public school
that costs less but it's not adirect admit program.
So you may or may not actuallyend up in the nursing program
(06:19):
and you can make those kinds ofcomparisons and say is it worth
the investment in this privateschool versus versus the public,
versus the public school.
So really a terrific resource.
And you know, as part of theresearch, as part of the
research arm, there's the, theIPEDS data, which is the
(06:40):
integrated post-secondaryeducation data system, and
that's where colleges arerequired to report net price by
income for their students.
It's where they're required toreport how many students are
receiving any form of financialaid, how much debt they're
incurring, what the three-yearwhat's it called, the three-year
(07:05):
rates of non-paying their debts, their student loan debts,
their graduation rates all kindsof really important data that
we as consumers should bedemanding of institutions that
want to charge us at this ratefor our education.
And that's data that feedsthings like net price
(07:30):
calculators and other tools thatfamilies can use to figure out
what it's likely to cost them togo to any specific college.
Well, you've really emphasizedin our previous conversations
how a net price calculator canhelp you sort through the weeds
when you see a private schoolthat may have a price tag of
$55,000.
And then you plug it into thenet price calculator with your
(07:53):
personal information and it mayindicate that you would
typically receive grants orfinancial aid.
But all of that is incumbent ondata that's provided by the
schools to the federalgovernment to get back into that
net price calculator withauditing right instead of just
(08:14):
self-reporting.
Exactly, and that's the reallyimportant piece of all of this,
is there's an auditing functionon this data, because there is
other.
You know, ipeds data is onedata set, but it is mandatory
that colleges that receivefederal funding provide their
data there.
There's a second set of datacalled the common data set, and,
and that is a private entitythat collects data and it's
voluntary for colleges toparticipate in that.
(08:35):
They do a great job of makingthat information available.
You know the website collegedata that uses.
That is a lot more usable thanthe, than the iPads site,
college navigator, but part ofwhy that works is there's a
check on that data in the formof the of the mandatory iPads
(08:55):
data.
That is.
That is that is collected.
There's another important pieceof the education.
There's another important pieceof the education pie,
specifically the dollars of it.
That's not the Department ofEducation, but that is federal
research dollars, and the 2025federal research budget is over
(09:15):
$150 billion.
A large portion of that goes toour research universities that
they use for basic research, andthe reason that's pertinent to
undergraduates is a couple ofthings, you know.
One is it funds a lot ofscience labs.
It funds a lot of professors,but also a lot of colleges
(09:37):
include research grants in theirfinancial aid packages and a
lot of students get jobs workingon these research projects.
So there's two pieces of iton-campus employment and
financial aid that flow fromthose research dollars that
we've seen with the NationalInstitute of Health Research
(09:59):
cutbacks is already impactinguniversities in a pretty
significant way.
Well, we're going to talk aboutthat in a second and it's
really important to many of ourlisteners because, as you know,
our location is just outside ofAnn Arbor, michigan.
The largest employer in ourcounty, washtenaw County, is the
University of Michigan.
So, and including, you know,the research functions, the
(10:21):
health system, etc.
So this is really important tomany of our listeners.
But before we get to that, Ialso want to talk about
proposals to changes in grants.
So you mentioned, or fundingjust in general.
So you mentioned Parent PLUSloans, which I don't think
they're either yours nor myfavorite ways to finance college
(10:41):
, because they are very punitiveto the families.
You pay a lot of interest andyou know you can end up retiring
with those loans.
It's just a difficult bill topay.
It's the fastest growingsegment of student loan debt.
It's so necessary for so manyfamilies, though, because
they're behind the eight balland weren't able, because of
(11:03):
circumstances and a variety ofreasons, or just you know, the
ability to make a plan.
They weren't able to save forcollege.
So they're sitting here with abig bill that they don't have
the cashflow or budget to payfor, and those are at risk.
Is that correct?
That that is correct.
I mean, no one has saidspecifically these are the
(11:37):
programs that we would cut, butthat has always been one of the
ones that federal direct studentloan, and with the direct
student loan a student canborrow $27,000 over four years.
With the plus loan you canborrow up to the full cost of
attendance.
And so, getting rid of plusloans, there are definitely some
pros to that, because we seeall the time people getting into
(12:00):
tons of trouble with ParentPLUS Loans, and oftentimes that
comes not from intention butfrom lack of awareness, when
they read a financial aid offer,that a Parent PLUS Loan is part
of the financial aid package.
So I would say getting rid ofParent PLUS Loans might not be
(12:21):
the worst thing in the world,because, absent that funding
source, it could force collegesto either reduce prices or
increase financial aid awardsThrough other sources.
Through other sources, becauseas long as you have people who
are willing to pay any price fortheir kids to attend their
(12:41):
dream school, there's noincentive.
You know, there's no incentiveor pressure on the colleges to
change the pricing Right.
And certainly the financial aiddepartment has an incentive to
perhaps convince a likely lessinformed consumer that this is
the right way to go by, justlike.
You know, here's the pathway.
(13:02):
There's no choices whenactually there may be.
Yeah, here you can do this.
Here's how we close this gapRight.
So other proposals I've heard, Ithink, are taxing scholarships.
Tell me more about this and howit might work.
So taxing scholarships would beextraordinarily punitive to the
(13:23):
kids who most need access tocollege.
You know the people who get thelargest scholarships are
students with high financialneed.
Now, when you tax a scholarship.
So the way scholarships worknow is, if it's scholarships
that cover tuition fees andrequired supplies like books,
(13:43):
computer etc, etc.
Are tax free.
Scholarships that cover roomand board are taxable to the
student already.
Now the proposal is thatinstitutional scholarships
covering anything would betaxable to the student.
Thing would be taxable to thestudent.
Now one of the big problems withthat, besides the fact that
(14:03):
this is a large amount oftaxable income for a student I
mean think of a student with afull scholarship to Stanford.
That is $95,000 of scholarshipevery year, and students whose
family incomes are below$200,000 are likely to be
getting that type of ascholarship if they're admitted
to those schools.
(14:25):
Now scholarships are consideredunearned income by the IRS and
there's a big distinctionbetween earned income and
unearned income for minors whoare dependents on their parents'
tax return, and that is thatunearned income is subject to
the kiddie tax, which means it'staxed at the parent's rate, not
(14:45):
at the child's rate.
So a couple thousand dollars istaxed at the child's rate.
Any amount in excess of that istaxed at the parent's rate.
Now a parent who makes $150,000, $175,000 is probably in the
22% federal tax bracket and sothat student is paying 22% tax
(15:08):
on $95,000.
Where do they come up with thatmoney?
I don't know how that actuallyis.
$20,000 a year, I don't knowhow many thousand dollars a year
.
Yeah, really difficult tounderstand to take in.
And so you know, we'll justhave to wait and see, because
(15:28):
all of these, as of now I willsay we're recording at the
beginning of March and it's afew weeks lag before we release
the episode.
So who knows what else is onthe table by the time we get
there?
But I do love that we're ableto talk about the real world
concepts of what could bechanging, you know.
Another proposal is that.
So you know, I'm thinking,using University of Michigan as
(15:52):
an example there's a giantendowment that tends to
accumulate and get bigger.
You know one that tends toaccumulate and get bigger.
You know one you know kind ofidea would be okay.
If there's less financial aidfederally, perhaps there's more
usage of an endowment.
But there's also tax proposals.
(16:14):
When it comes to taxing theendowments as well, right, and
so the proposal is, I want tosay it's a 35% tax on unused
endowment funds, which is asignificant amount, and I know
for a lot of people it's like ohwell, that's just money that's
sitting there.
Why not tax it if it doesn'tget used?
(16:35):
One of the big issues withendowments is a large portion of
endowment gifts, so money goinginto the end is gifted for
specific purposes.
It may be a building, it may bean on-campus activity, it may
be a department, it may be aspecific function.
It may be a research program.
So a large portion of everycollege's endowment can only be
used for specific purposes.
(16:55):
The biggest use of unrestrictedfunds, you know, so gifts that
people say, use it for whateveryou want, is financial aid.
And so when a tax gets appliedto all of this, the one
discretionary area in thecollege's budget is financial
aid.
I don't want to, and that'sgoing to again impact the
(17:17):
students with the highestfinancial need.
I don't want to, and that'sgoing to again impact the
students with the highestfinancial financial need.
I don't want to act likeendowments are this just
universal good and nothingshould be done.
I feel like there is a lot morethat colleges should be doing
with their endowments to promotetheir mission of education and
research and making the world abetter place, informed citizenry
(17:40):
and all of that.
That's not to, you know.
So I'm not solely defendingendowments.
I am just, you know, pointingout that the people who are
going to be hurt most by attackson endowments are not
universities.
It's students with highfinancial need who would like to
attend those universities.
Yeah, there's a lot to take in,because you try to say, okay, if
(18:02):
something happens here, thenwhere could we go to fill that
hole or gap.
And then there's extra.
Well, it's a complication ifwe're also thinking that that's
a source of funding for thefederal government.
If we could just pivot for amoment, why don't we talk about
the role of researchinstitutions in our society?
Because it's not, as youmentioned, wholly the Department
(18:25):
of Ed.
There are other fundingmechanisms from the federal
government that go to what I seeas somewhat the American
success story and the reasonwhere we've been considered a
leader in the world in so manyareas, including our economy,
but especially in the sciencesand medical fields.
So you know, I'm sitting in theshadow, where I'm at, of a
(18:48):
research institution.
We know them around the countryand what are.
What has been the role of theseinstitutions in our country,
whether it's for, you know,educating leaders.
But also you know the outcome,the research outcomes that have
happened in the past.
Yeah, it's such a greatquestion.
(19:09):
I think it's one that we justdon't don't really think a lot
about.
But you know, if you listen tothe news media, you'd think that
colleges primarily servewealthy families and that
they're just funnels ofprivilege from one end.
I'm a sports fan, so are youtoo, so you know, like football
Saturdays.
That's why.
That's why we love our schools,right?
Yeah, yeah, we're public school.
Yeah, go, blue and gold.
(19:35):
Yes, there you go.
You know, the truth is we allbenefit from our university
system.
You know, like you were saying,you know American ingenuity.
Our research universities areabsolutely the economic engine
of our country and when you lookat the wealthiest regions of
(19:56):
our country, they're allanchored by research
institutions.
You know, in Boston area, inthe New York area, research
Triangle Park, austin, texas,bay Area, seattle, you know all
of those are homes.
Your area in Michigan, all ofthose are homes to research
institutions.
And you know where federaldollars come in and are married
(20:19):
with academics and scientistswho can create, you know, the
next generation of things thatwe need and things that we want
and things that we use.
So there's this incrediblepower of bringing together
federal research funding and ourscientists and academics.
I mean, if you saw the movieOppenheimer, you saw exactly how
(20:43):
that works and you know we candebate the morality of the
Manhattan Project, all we want,but that's another episode,
right?
But that's just one example ofthe power of combining federal
research dollars with Americaningenuity, of combining federal
research dollars with Americaningenuity.
(21:04):
You know if you or a loved onesurvived cancer.
You've personally benefitedfrom our research university
system.
If you use the internet, youhave benefited from our research
universities, and that's to saynothing of the communities that
are funded, that are employedby research dollars.
The problem with basic research, the kind that's done at
(21:24):
academic institutions, is itisn't profitable, but it is the
foundation for the technologiesthat can then be commercialized
into the products and servicesthat we use, that create wealth,
that create jobs, that buildnew economies.
If you think of DNA sequencing,it took decades of scientific
(21:45):
research and billions of dollarsprimarily federal dollars to
get CRISPR and other suchtechnologies to the point where
we now have hundreds ofcompanies using it to develop
life-saving medications, toemploy people at all levels of
the corporate function, who thengo out and spend dollars in
their communities.
(22:06):
It's so true.
That's where I really think ofwhen you take some space and
time to think about the role ofresearch institutions and
federally funded research in theeconomy that we have, which you
know it really matters to me,my clients, our listeners.
You know the functioning of theUS economy, but if you were to
(22:28):
look at any of the early stageresearch projects, for example,
seeking out gene sequencing forcancer, for example, or
self-driving vehicles, earlystages at an engineering
institution.
Space exploration really was,you know, started the ability in
(22:51):
, you know, the astrophysicsdepartments.
They spin into kind ofsemi-public, semi-private, you
know, kind of cooperation inmany cases where there's early
venture capital startups thatare coming from
university-funded research.
And there's reasons that youknow your hometown, silicon
(23:13):
Valley, is close.
You know that places close toStanford and Berkeley have been
kind of the hot bed ofinnovation and you know we
probably could delineate theinitial AI that were revolution.
Back to universities, same, youknow there's a reason that the
(23:34):
hub of venture capital in one ofthem in the Midwest is Ann
Arbor, because of the access toacademics, research and
collaboration, cooperation.
And so it's when you thinkabout, like NIH grants, you
think about funding, we'reessentially thinking about an
infrastructure, a public perhaps, infrastructure that private
(23:54):
markets are able to capitalizeupon and that is additive to the
economy.
So that's a really importantand interesting consideration in
terms of proposed changes thatyou know, in essence it's an
investment in an intellectthat's necessary for innovation.
Yeah, and I mean thegovernment's job is not to be a
(24:14):
business, it's to do the thingsthat business doesn't do so that
business can do what it needsto do.
You know, and one of thosefunctions is educating our kids
so that they're prepared to be apart of the workforce, whether
that's through college, whetherthat's through apprenticeship
programs, through the trades,through other skilled you know,
(24:36):
skilled training programs.
Companies don't do that, no,but they benefit from having
skilled work, a skilledworkforce.
So you know, this is, this ispart of it.
When you're a financial planner, you want to be able to hire
people that work on your team,who have some of the background,
so you don't have to start, youknow, kind of your
(24:57):
apprenticeship program so farback that you know you're saying
what is a stock versus what isa bond, things like that, a
hundred percent.
But you know, getting back tothe original part of our
(25:18):
conversation, you know it isMarch, which means that families
of high school seniors arestarting to get acceptance
letters from colleges.
Really good choices that willwork for your families, whether
or not you can take out a ParentPLUS loan, whatever happens
with scholarships, that you canstill make a go of it.
And you know be reaching out tofinancial aid offices at
(25:42):
colleges and asking them whathappens to my package if any of
these changes you know gothrough.
What are the risks to me ofthese changes?
Well, I think that gets back toone of the things that, whether
it's funding, education,preparing for retirement, in so
(26:02):
many areas of financial planningand personal finance, one of
the most important things to dois focus on what you can control
so you can't impact theoutcomes necessarily of some of
these big headline potentialchanges.
What can you do If you havesomeone who is going to be
(26:24):
graduating this year?
You can fill out that FAFSA, youcan make a solid game plan and
you can discuss the cost ofcollege and the trade-offs of
different choices with your kidwho's going to school.
And if you've got some moretime, I think that this would
indicate like, hey, if educationis important to you, you may
need to factor in more of yourpersonal balance sheet as an
(26:47):
investment in that, and so thereis no time like today to start
planning and discussing that, sothat you're prepared for any
contingency.
Yeah, 100%.
And I think it's reallyimportant for parents to think
what are your actual goals inthis process, because it's easy
to think my goal is for my kidto go to an Ivy League school,
(27:08):
but instead of thinking aboutthose four years.
Think about the 25-year-old youwant to create, the 30-year-old
you want to create, you know, isthis someone who has an
overwhelming amount of studentloan debt?
Is it someone who took sixyears to graduate?
Or is it someone who's activelyengaged in a career, maybe
starting a life, looking atbuying a home, you know?
(27:39):
So look beyond what's that namethat you're shooting for and
think of who that person is thatyou're trying to create and how
do you best marshal yourresources to create that person.
And maybe it's consideringdifferent pathways.
You know, maybe it's.
If your student is taking a lotof AP and IB classes apply to
colleges that will give youcredit, so maybe you can get out
in three years so that you canlimit the time span that you're
(28:12):
spending in college.
Maybe it's looking at yourfamily's budget and saying how
can we carve out a little bitmore money to save for college
to make sure that our kid hasthe opportunities that we want
them to have?
It's, you know, it's probablywhen you look at borrowing.
It's looking at what can thedirect student loan accomplish
for our family, as opposed towhat's the universe of borrowing
(28:32):
that we can do.
Well, I think that is soimportant and you're describing
different opportunities forflexibility in a college plan
and you know you have a newadult that you're making these
decisions with, or soon to be,so make sure that you're
incorporating the conversations.
That can be difficult.
You know it isn't always easyto tell your kid that there's a
(28:53):
limit, there's boundaries, thatthere may not be enough to do
everything they've ever dreamedof doing.
But I also think those are someof the most important lessons
that I learned growing up in afamily where I did need to take
on some student loans.
We did have.
You know, there were trade-offsin terms of where I went for
spring break, things like that.
So don't hesitate to initiate,you know, your kid into kind of
(29:16):
the adult world with somegrown-up talk about the
decisions that you're making sothat you collectively can make
the best choices for yourcurrent kid as well as your
future family.
That's such a great point andyou know, I think one of the
best things that we can do toprepare ourselves and our kids
for these college conversationsis just to normalize talking
(29:36):
about money, and that doesn'tmean telling your kids what your
salary is, but maybe it meansexplaining why you choose to
spend money on certain thingsand not on others.
Or you know whether it's goingout for dinner, whether it's
taking a vacation.
You know, sometimes it's hey,we prioritize spending time
together as a family, withoutthe distractions of our everyday
(29:58):
life, and so we spend money onvacations.
But that also means thatbecause our money's going there,
there's less available forthese other things.
Yes, I love that conversationand I just can't emphasize
enough.
It may feel like you're lessthan because your neighbors can
afford to do more.
It is preparing forresponsibility to in some cases
(30:23):
have to say no and explainingwhy and explaining the reality
and also emphasizing priorities.
If it's, we're not taking thatvacation because we really are
focusing on being prepared topay for school.
Or, you know, mom's job isn'tnecessarily secure because it's
somewhat dependent on federalfunding.
Those types of things, when doneright, when not just like the
(30:47):
big scare conversation buthappening in the day-to-day with
you know, thought and care forstress and anxiety that could be
initiated with the discussions,can be hugely valuable and pay
off over decades A hundredpercent.
Yeah Well, anne, we know you'regoing to continue to be, unless
(31:08):
you tell me, no, you are ago-to source.
I strongly recommend your bookhow to Pay for College, and also
whenever you're talking, I'mlistening.
You are always dropping greatwisdom on LinkedIn, but where
else can people find you?
So my book, as you mentioned,is how to Pay for College and my
(31:28):
website is alsohowtopayforcollegecom, so those
are the best places to find me,as well as on LinkedIn, where
I'm Ann Garcia, crp, and thankyou so much for joining us.
We will keep everyone informedas we know how things are
evolving and, as always, focuson what you can control.
Focus on the beautifulopportunities that you have in
(31:52):
educating your child.
You can do this.
It just takes a flexiblemindset.
Thank you for listening to theWomen's Money Wisdom Podcast.
If you found value in thisepisode, the best way you can
(32:14):
support the podcast is toforward an episode to a friend
or leave a review.
Go to pearlplancom and thepodcast link to get all the
resources and links mentioned.
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