Working harder isn’t the answer—thinking strategically is.
In this empowering episode, Melissa Joy, CFP®, sits down with executive coach Jackie Simon to explore what it really takes to grow your career—and your income. From navigating leadership roles to preparing for bold career moves, Jackie shares how to shift from “doing more” to demonstrating more value.
💡 Learn why:
- Simply putting in the hours won’t get you promoted—or paid what you’re worth
- Building a team that can run without you is the key to advancement
- Strategic networking (inside and outside your company) is non-negotiable
- Accepting less money to switch industries isn’t a smart move
- You should never underestimate the financial power of a well-timed job change
Jackie also shares practical tips for identifying mentorship opportunities, managing career uncertainty, and aligning your professional path with your financial goals.
🎧 Whether you're eyeing the C-suite, recovering from a layoff, or just ready for what’s next—this episode will help you take control of your trajectory with intention and confidence.
Learn more at JackieSimonCoaching.com.
Connect on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jackiesimoncoaching1
The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only. No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https:...
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast.
I'm Melissa Joy, a certifiedfinancial planner and the
founder of Pearl Planning.
My goal is to help youstreamline and organize your
finances, navigate big moneydecisions with confidence and be
strategic in order to grow yourwealth.
As a woman, you work hard foryour money and I'm here to help
(00:21):
you make the most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
And I'm here to help you makethe most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
Just a quick note before wedive in.
The information that we shareis meant to educate and inspire,
not serve as personalizedfinancial advice.
Everyone's situation is unique,so be sure to consult with your
own financial professional forguidance that fits your life.
And just so you know, theopinions shared in this podcast
(00:44):
are my own and those of myguests, and they don't
necessarily represent those ofany organizations that I'm
affiliated with.
For more important disclosures,please go to our webpage at
pearlplancom.
Now let's get started.
Welcome back to the Women'sMoney Wisdom Podcast, and I am
thrilled to have our next guest.
(01:05):
She's been on my list for quitea while.
We're going to talk about greatadvice on how to manage your
career.
It's about mentality.
It's about how to think aboutyour human capital, and I'm
thrilled to be joined by JackieSimon, who is an executive coach
and she works with managers,directors, vice presidents and
(01:26):
newly promoted executives.
To step confidently into yourrole, drive results and build
high-performing teams.
Jackie, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Thank you so much, Melissa.
I am so excited to be here.
You rolled out the red carpetfor me and I couldn't be more
thrilled, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Well, the feeling is mutual.
I think you have given amazingadvice to strong female leaders
who we both know, and I'vefollowed you.
You always have greatsuggestions and advice on
LinkedIn, and so I'm excited tohave this conversation today
where we can really dive deeperinto anyone who's looking to
(02:09):
manage your career.
Or I know I've had some clientswho really have their eye on
the prize and say someday I'mgoing to be a vice president,
someday I'm going to run acompany.
How do you turn your kind ofperformance into something that
rewards you both professionallyas well as financially?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Exactly so.
I, you know, I work with thistopic a lot with men and women,
the individuals I coach and sooften I hear the goals around
individuals really wanting tokind of grow in their leadership
and grow in their career.
But what's lacking is a planand a strategy.
(02:48):
It's actually not unlike ourfinancial portfolios.
You know, people come to youfor the strategy so that they
have the advice and the guidancethey need to really grow their
money.
But so many people, so manytimes people come to me and say
these are my goals and then Isay, great, what does that look
like?
How do you get there?
(03:08):
And they say, well, I'm goingto work hard and I say that's
great, but it's now time tostart kind of shifting your
mindset, because hard work iswonderful, but hard work isn't
necessarily going to correlateto the compensation and the
financial reward that you'relooking for in the long term.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Well, I can't tell you how much.
When you work with someonewhere you see their strategic
thinking when it comes to boththeir career and then, of course
, when you have strategy, it'slikely that you're really
working to contribute at thecompany level or team level.
As a business leader, that isan instinct that is so desirable
(03:58):
that you know.
Just having that strategicshift can really automatically
put you at the front of the linefor the next promotion, for the
next big project, for the nextresume builder.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
So a lot of times, with thewomen that I work, with the
individuals I work with, we talkabout leverage, we talk about
transformation and that's reallysuch a huge mindset for so many
professionals and even businessowners.
(04:28):
So it's the shift from thinkingabout trading your time for
money and instead thinking aboutwhat's the transformation that
I can bring as a leader, as anindividual contributor in this
business where I'm working,leader as an individual
contributor in this businesswhere I'm working.
(04:48):
So in the early days of ourcareer, often we look at okay,
I'm going to work hard, I'mgoing to put the time in, people
are going to notice and I'mgoing to do great things, and
before you know it, I'm going tobe in the C-suite, I'm going to
make those executive roles.
But working hard just is notenough and unfortunately,
especially as you get to themore executive roles, but
working hard just is not enoughand unfortunately, especially as
you get to the more seniorroles, it's less likely that you
(05:12):
will be noticed for your hardwork.
The accolades, the recognition,even the increases in salary,
follow more slowly at the seniorlevels, follow more slowly at
the senior levels, unless you'retaking the steps to really
bring visibility not just to thework that you're doing, but
(05:32):
also to the work that your teamis doing as well.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That's so interesting .
I remember early in my careerwhere I didn't even.
I was in the transition spacefrom a job to a career where,
you know, initially I justthought, oh I'll, I'll, I'll
work for a financial planner asan assistant for a while and
then I'll figure out what I wantto do when I grow up.
But I would try to, you know,kind of pull together the work
resume and I really felt like itwas back when the TV show
(06:02):
Survivor was first coming out.
It was like a game of Survivor,Like what do you want to
present?
How can you be valuable?
Things like that.
And I think, if I'm liketalking to someone who may need
services like yours, how wouldyou be able to tell whether you
just were like putting in thework versus having a strategy,
(06:23):
Like what would be thedistinguishing features between
I will always put it, you know,I always do my best and you know
as in as broad of a stroke as Ican, versus I'm a strategic
thinker when it comes to mycareer?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
A lot of it comes through how the individual shows
up when they come to me andwhat the current challenge or
kind of what their currentreality looks like.
So it really depends on thechallenge that the individual
comes to me with, but inevitably, especially at the senior
levels, this topic will come up.
(06:59):
So, interestingly, I had aclient session yesterday and one
of the things that she asked meand I get asked this question
quite a bit was we were talkingaround the challenges of I'm
putting in the work and I don'tfeel like I'm getting anywhere
with my team or my impact.
(07:20):
I feel like the only way toprove myself is to keep working
harder.
And then at one point in thesession she said to me do people
come to you a lot with this?
Like, is this a commonchallenge that people bring to
you?
And I said, oh my gosh, melissa, if I could even had a dollar
for the number of times thatexecutives came to me with that,
(07:41):
I would be retired right now.
You would have set me up withthis amazing financial strategy
and I'd probably be at thecasino or the strip right now
blowing some of my retirement oncramps.
But it definitely is somethingthat comes up.
Quite often is around thisconcept of wait a minute and
(08:03):
this aha moment of I'm notworking to prove myself anymore
because I'm already at the table.
Now I'm working for what's nextin my career, and the way to
get there is by showing otherleaders, showing the company,
what I can do now and growing asuccessful team behind me so
(08:27):
that when I step up and stepinto the next role, there's
somebody else that can take myrole.
In fact, yesterday, part of theconversation was and this comes
up very often for men and womenwas I'm afraid that I'm going
to put myself out of a job, andso that's why, when I you know I
(08:48):
could be doing all this work toresearch and really come up
with strategy and be proactivein my work, but I'll open up
windows in my browser and putaway all the things that I
bookmarked because I'm waitingfor the next, the next emergency
or the next issue that my teamis going to pull me into.
(09:11):
And they said, yeah, that's areally that's a really common
idea, this fear of beingreplaced.
But that's actually what you'reworking for, and that's where
the real financial rewards comeis when you are replaced, not
because you're going to loseyour job, but because either
there's going to be a newopportunity that's created for
(09:31):
you in the company because theysaw the great work that you do,
or somebody is going to comefrom the outside and say you
know what?
I've heard some couple ofreally great things about you.
Let's go have lunch.
Let's go talk about what you doand what you want to do in the
future.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Oh, that's so interesting.
I have benefited from kind ofhaving my career course played
out in a former role where Ithought it was my forever job.
And then, you know, there justcame a point in time, both for
me and the people around me,where I was like I thought, once
I climbed this mountain,everything would feel perfect.
(10:12):
And instead, you know, I'msitting there like is this going
to be the rest of my life?
And at the same time, you know,my leadership peers were like
it doesn't feel like.
You know, you're going to bewho we want to be with.
And so that's when I openedPearl Planning, which was such
an exceptional like that doorclosing, and this door opening
(10:34):
is so rewarding, you know,financially as well as
personally, in terms of the waymy life is, you know, kind of
built today.
But that can feel so scary whenyou're someone who has, when
you're someone who you know hasjust been a loyal contributor,
(10:56):
who has always been rewarded forthat.
So how do you, you know, how doyou coach for the uncertainty
that is required to evolve overtime?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Well, even just with the thought of what's scarier,
the idea of not growing isreally actually, for me, it's a
frightened thought.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Absolutely.
For me too.
It would just be so difficultto be the same every day for
years.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
So we you know I, in some of the work that I've done
I've helped women executiveleaders land jobs.
And you know I've I've helped afew women who are even in their
mid to late sixties.
They're not ready to stopworking, they love what they do,
but they found themselves at apoint where they were in a
(11:51):
layoff and they were reallyafraid about their employability
and what that might look forfor them.
And through the coaching andhelping them kind of make the
transition, they actually landedbetter.
And that's always the goal.
The goal isn't to go backward,no matter what age you are or
where you are in your careermale or female the goal is to
(12:12):
always be moving forward.
The factors that I find arethat really help individuals
work well into their 70s andthese are more specifically,
people who don't own their owncompany but they're working for
employers is just showing thatyou're willing to learn and that
you have an appetite for changeand that you don't want to stop
(12:36):
working or stop learning.
In particular, the people thatshow that.
I've actually seen individualsin there, and this is this gets
frightening, particularly forwomen, because a lot of times
they'll come to me and say youknow, I'm in my mid fifties.
I'm in my late fifties.
I find myself in this positionof having to find the next job.
(12:56):
I don't have a means to retire,but I'm really afraid that no
one's going to hire me.
And I say to them all the timeas long as you show a
willingness to learn and thatyou're continuing to learn and
that you've kept your skills upto date, you will actually
believe it or not.
You will actually have moreease in finding your next job
(13:18):
and a great job than someone whomight be in their early to mid
30s, who shows up and shows thatthey are kind of stuck where
they are and, more importantly,they show that they're kind of
they're not a learner, they're,they're closed.
Uh, there's, there's this ideaaround um active open mindset
and closed mindset.
(13:38):
So the more you show up with anopen mindset, the more likely
that you will have opportunitieswell into the future.
I also find this comes up veryoften people who want to make a
job shift, especially in thiseconomy.
I'm hearing it more and more.
People will say to me you know,if I have to take a step
(13:59):
backward and pay, I'll do that,because once I go into the
company and I show my boss howhard I work and the great work
that I do.
They're going to reward me andI'll say the time to get the
money is going in.
And I say to them I say youknow, I'm not the coach that you
want to work with if you'rewilling to either stay where you
(14:22):
are or go backwards to get thebreak that you want.
There's also this idea of well,if I'm switching industries,
I'll probably have to take astep back and I'll say, no, you
don't.
And that's not the mindset thatI recommend that you go in with
.
Go in with the mindset aroundwhat you're going to do in the
company, the transformation andthe impact that you'll make,
(14:43):
regardless of the industry thatyou're in, if you know,
regardless if this is a newindustry for you and that's what
you base your value on.
So go in and get the money,because the money doesn't follow
once you're in the companytraditionally, unless it's a
huge promotion.
And then, if it's a promotion,negotiate.
(15:05):
Even if you're in the company,negotiate for your salary.
A lot of times they'll come.
Your boss will come to you, hrwill come to you and say, well,
this is kind of the level, so,like you're a level seven
executive.
This is the pay and comp thatcomes with it.
But if it's not the level thatyou want to be at, then ask for
more.
Tell them well, based on theresponsibilities, based on what
(15:27):
I know I'm capable of doing,this is what it needs to look
like, and be willing, be brave,be willing to be told no, you're
probably not going to lose yourjob.
But you may hear no.
And then that's a point whereyou decide is it time for me to
(15:48):
move on?
And the reality is is you'remore likely to get more money
making moves than you arestaying in the company that you
are in currently.
So you've got to kind of findthat sweet spot of when it's
when it's time to move on,because it's time to be seen for
what you're capable of doingand for the compensation that
(16:11):
you deserve.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So interesting.
I also think when you ask formore, you are automatically once
you start that ask, if there'snot you know kind of bad blood
which is on them not younecessarily then you are
automatically.
Your employer knows the nexttime they review a salary pool
or do you know annual increases.
They know you are engaged andproactive and that automatically
(16:38):
creates an assumption that theywill probably work you in first
for the bumps if there's like alimited budget and I agree with
you I see so many cases wherepeople are radically shift their
comp when they go from onecompany to another.
In many cases you know there'sequity compensation at the new
(17:00):
company and you may not havebeen in line for that at your
current company and you knowthis is just where the company
is choosing to put up.
You know, of course, as afinancial planner increases your
(17:26):
, your financial foundation aswell that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Any move, even for individuals who may be listening
to the show and are saying,well, this is great, jackie, but
I've been recently laid off.
In order for me to go to thenext job, I might have to take a
pay cut from where I waspreviously.
And I would still advocate forthat individual to think
differently, to kind of shifttheir mindset.
(17:51):
There's just like you said too,there's also ways to negotiate.
Where it may not come in salary, specifically, it could come in
equity, it could come inbonuses.
And the way to truly understandwhat your value is is not to
have the conversationsinternally with HR, with your
boss, with senior leaders, butto have the conversations
(18:14):
externally.
Reach out to people, start tounderstand, based on the work
that you're doing in yourcompany, what does that look
like elsewhere?
Get advice, but that's one ofthe really biggest pieces of
advice that I could leaveindividuals with today is always
(18:35):
be talking and thinking andnetworking outside of the
company because you got to bedoing your research, and the
number of times that I've heardsomeone say you know I made this
job move and I'm actually angrywith my previous employer
because of how little I was paid, but they didn't know until
(18:58):
they actually were either forcedto make a change through a
layoff or they finally just saidit's time for me to move on.
I want to do other things.
So I'm going to look externally.
And it was, it was a shock andI and I feel badly at that point
.
But then I say you've got to.
Now is your chance, today andin the future, to change that
(19:19):
you know, to change thatsituation so that you're never
in this position again.
Always be asking for andadvocating for what you want and
for what you're worth, whatyour value is and what you can
bring.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, network can be everything, because think about
the people that you may workwith in the corporate world.
While I talk about being anentrepreneur, most of my clients
are, you know, employees and,in many cases, executives, like
the people that you work withand maintain relationships with
people who move to othercompanies.
Companies will often providementorship within the firm, but
(20:04):
you don't have sometimes that'snot as safe of a space as
someone who's outside of thefirm who can advise you on that
strategy that you're talkingabout, jackie, as well as just a
perspective where you know theycan.
There's a little more objective, you know, kind of analysis of
oh, this might be better foryour firm and you know you need
to be advocating for this orthat.
So I think it's it's the peopleyou know are everything in so
(20:28):
many cases for your career.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yes, yes, and the people you know and in fact this
came up in the coaching sessionyesterday not just the people
that you know, but the peoplethat you are choosing to
surround yourself with.
So what came up in thatcoaching session yesterday was
find the leaders three to fiveleaders within the company that
you admire, who are doing thethings that you want to be doing
(20:51):
or who you're anticipating arecomped at the level that you
want to be comped, and get toknow them and learn from them.
And if those people don't existin the company that you're in
currently, find them externally.
But it's really about that.
You know, the thinking ofsurround yourself with the five
(21:12):
best people that you know andwant to be more like as a way to
grow yourself and grow youropportunities and and you know,
financial, your, yourcompensation.
So it's it's always really kindof looking more externally than
(21:35):
it is internally, and that's oneof the things I was guilty of,
it, my career, that's one of thethings that I, I did.
I, I cut my head down, I wasreally focused on doing the work
on the company and I lost sightof what's happening externally.
To get ideas, to bring themback, to work, to better myself
(21:56):
for my own fulfillment.
You name it, but it's reallyimportant not to lose sight of
yourself within the company.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I couldn't agree more .
I think when you make thoseconnections to with people
within the company, it doesn'ttake much right Like, hopefully
you have a chance encounter, youmeet each other, you schedule
some time to connect, but itreally once you have made the
effort a couple times and alsoyou know you may be able to
(22:25):
bring something to the table aswell.
You may be working on something.
When we talk about those open,active learners, you may have
been responsible for somethingthat they haven't worked on yet.
Maybe you're doing AI and theywant to get to know it or
something like that.
So be open with your skill setas well.
But it really only takes a fewtimes before it's a natural
(22:47):
friendship or peer where youdon't have to be as strategic.
It happens more naturally andthose people also could
introduce you to people externalfrom the firm.
If you're looking for thatmentorship, it's more formal but
you need an introduction forthat.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
That's exactly right.
I am working with a womancurrently.
She's incredible and she'sreally grown in her career and
she's been really deliberateabout it.
So at any point in your careerwhere you feel a little lost,
that's a really good point tocheck in with other people who
know you or other people who maybe doing the work that you're
(23:24):
doing.
One of the favorite, mostfavorite questions I have at the
end of, say, a mentorshipprogram or a mentorship meeting
or a networking meeting is askthe person that you've just met
with is there anyone else thatyou think I should know?
And try to leave thosementorship meetings and those
networking meetings with onemore introduction and then reach
(23:48):
out to that person, reallyleverage the introduction,
because you never know whoyou'll be meeting and who you'll
be you know and who what you'lllearn from them.
But this particular woman thatI'm working with, she works for
a global company and the companyis actually headquartered in a
country that is non-Englishspeaking and so there's offices
(24:12):
in the US, but primarily thework is done out of this
particular non-English speakingcountry.
So she got the advice that shereally needed to develop her
relationships with these threeindividuals in the home country
abroad, and boy was she nervousbecause she had never done that
(24:33):
before.
And not only that, there's thislanguage barrier.
So she said I didn't know howto approach it, so I just
approached it at a reallypersonal level.
I went, I introduced myself andwe spent 30 minutes talking
about each other.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Not about that.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, not about work, and there was so much to learn
because she lives in the U S,they live in the, in this
country abroad.
So many things they have.
They're married, they havefamily, so does she just so many
cool things that they couldtalk about?
And at the end of the meetingsshe makes little notes so that
way when she goes back in andshe meets with them she could
(25:12):
say, hey, how's your son'ssoccer game?
Or you know, how's yourdaughter doing, how, how are her
classes going?
But anyway, funny enough, shetold me, and I think this is a
cool thing.
But anyway, funny enough, shetold me, and I with them, as a
result of just working out, youknow, reaching out and building
(25:50):
a relationship with them, andher language skills are
improving because she's alsoreally trying to focus on
building her skills in that, inthe whole Mottless country.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Well, that is a great tactical example of where you
know that might feel awkward ifyou're a listener, but and I can
think of other examples when Iwas younger, if I go to a
conference I'd say I want tohave two or three names that I
can follow up with after, andsome of them would stick where
they became either lifelongfriends, you know professional
(26:16):
resources.
So do be, do, be intentionalwith your time and your energy.
Um, it can really multiply foryou if you, if you use it.
What some would call awkward,but I would say just like you're
describing strategically, thatthat's exactly right and, let's
be honest, it is awkward.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I'm not here to say that it isn't awkward.
I we were just talking earlieryou and I, melissa that my
family and I moved here to LasVegas five years ago and talk
about, you know, there's thiscommon thought about how
difficult it is to make friendsas an adult.
And boy did I feel that, youknow.
And especially we came herewhen, during COVID, when we were
(26:58):
all masked, so trying to buildthese relationships with masks
on right, and then all of asudden the vaccines start
rolling out and the masks comeoff and then I had to, like
reacquaint myself with what theperson really looks like, and
that was like awkward all overagain, because I had these ideas
of what they look like.
It turns out that's not whatthey look like.
(27:19):
So I live it all the timebecause of, you know, living in
Vegas.
It's such a great conferencetown, so I try to get out to the
conferences and I just, youknow the way to get around it is
, the more you put yourself inthe situation, the easier it
really does get.
I mean, I know it's a cliche, Iknow everybody says it, but it
(27:42):
is really true, just puttingyourself out there, it does get
easier.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Well, that's so valuable, I think, nowadays too,
I've run into so many peoplewho either aren't loving their
job or also feel uncertainty.
You know there's rumors of it.
You know there's rumors of therumor of the destruction of the
(28:16):
US economy is greatlyexaggerated thus far, but
there's, you know, rumblings of.
You know just like, hunker downand stay safe in their role, or
, you know, take these perhapsmore risky or courageous, like
career moves, or, you know, putthemselves out there.
How do you, how do you, managethat dynamic?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
continues to come up, particularly over the last year
or so, with the change in theadministration and the
uncertainty with all kind of thechanges across the US, and then
the impact to the economy.
I mean, are we in a recession,are we not?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Not yet, I don't think, at least according to.
We're not going on vibes, we'regoing on numbers.
So so far so good.
We'll see what's next and therewill eventually be a recession.
This is just one of the factsof life, right?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So Right, that's exactly right.
What comes up must come down,kind of thing.
But no, and I think I've.
I continue to ask you know, arewe, aren't we?
And your answer is reallyconsistent with the feedback
that I that I get.
The number one piece of advicethat I would give is don't make
any assumptions, meaning theassumption of I'm safer where I
(29:30):
am than if I put myself outthere and make a change, because
, at the end of the day, nobodyknows that if I had a crystal
ball, oh my gosh, I I wouldn'tbe a coach.
Let me tell you that.
But there are no crystal balls,unfortunately, so nobody really
knows.
And so what I always suggest is, when I'm, when I'm talking
(29:51):
with someone, I'll say, gently,of course well, how do you know
that?
How do you know that it's saferto stay where you are,
especially if you want to go?
And one of the things that Itell people is you, when you've
gotten to the point where it'sreally difficult to kick the
covers off in the morning,that's when you know you've
(30:13):
stayed too long.
So go before it's really hardto get out of bed, and I know
everybody's thinking well, it'sMondays, it's really hard to get
out of bed.
But if you can't find a purposeto your day and something
positive that you're lookingforward to accomplishing or
achieving, then it's getting.
(30:33):
It's either time to go or it's.
It's important to start lookingat your options.
80%, 80 to 85% of jobs comethrough your network.
So there's a ton of frustrationout there from people
rightfully so about job postings.
I applied to this job.
I went back to it yesterday,the job was pulled, it's closed
(30:56):
or I haven't heard anything.
I applied to this job.
I always tell people don't fallin love with the job posting.
So if you see a great jobposting out there, please don't
fall in love with the jobposting, because it's like
hoping and wishing for a changeand there's no certainty that
(31:17):
that job is actually really inexistence.
A lot of companies test thewater and they'll post a job
just to see what the talentlooks like external to the
company and then make decisionsabout whether or not they're
going to promote internally ormaybe close the job rock because
of budgets.
So prove your hypothesis.
(31:38):
I was on a webinar last week andone of the big things that the
takeaway was prove yourhypothesis, think about you,
know what the possibilities areand then test it out, have some
conversations, check outLinkedIn, see if you know anyone
(32:01):
who's connected to someone at acompany that you've always
heard great things about oryou've always wanted to work
there.
It's like your dream employer.
Ask for an introduction tosomeone so you can kind of
understand the landscape there,and the ideal situation not only
is that the job will comethrough your network, but that
believe it or not, even in thisday and age that the job is
actually created for you.
(32:22):
So the company and people meetyou and they say, oh my God,
melissa is outstanding.
We need her on the team becauseof the way that she would fit
with our culture and the skillsthat she would bring.
We don't have anything opencurrently, but what could
Melissa be great at here?
(32:42):
And then the job is written foryou, and that, to me, is that's
goals, is when the job iswritten for you.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I love that and we did just.
We were just hiring for a roleand changed the position
description when we found theright candidate to be more of it
for them.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yes, and that's one of the things that one of the
reasons why I suggest to peoplenot to fall in love with the job
description is because in myopinion, in my experience, job
descriptions are written for theunicorn, and the reason why is
the hiring manager will writetheir job description and then
they will share the jobdescription with their boss, who
(33:23):
will add some things, and thenthey're going to job description
with their boss, who will addsome things, and then they're
going to send it to HR, totalent, and they're going to add
some things and, before youknow it, there's.
There's nobody on earth thatexists, quite honestly, that
meets all of the requirements ofthe job, and women in
particular are, um, are lesslikely to apply for jobs.
(33:48):
They'll self-select out right,unless they have like 90% of the
experience.
Men apply at 60%, women applyat 90%.
So I always say to my femaleclients I say, if you recognize
50% of this work, apply for thejob, put yourself out there for
it.
And so that's why I say don'tfall in love with the job, fall
(34:10):
in love with the culture, fallin love with what the company
does, its purpose, its mission,who it serves, fall in love with
the people that you would getto work with, but not the job,
because jobs can come and go.
It's about what you can do asyour greater purpose.
That really has the meaning andhas the compensation that
(34:33):
follows.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I couldn't agree more .
And if I could just put in aplug for financial planning
services, I think that when youintegrate the advice or the
concepts of your financial planinto your considerations for
your career, it can give you thespace to take more risks.
It can let you know that you dohave the space, the emergency
(34:57):
reserves, for a gap inemployment If you decide you
know this isn't working for meanymore, isn't working for me
anymore.
I'm thinking of one client nowwho you know kind of felt like
they'd hit the end of the roadfor their current position and
they were confident in theirnetwork and their skills and and
chose to say this is what I'mgoing to end my work here and um
started looking after they, umput in their notice with their
(35:21):
current job and were able to geta two to three month gap where
they, you know, kind of did somethings for themselves and got a
terrific new position that waslike a step on their career
ladder afterwards.
That's not the I don't startwith like hey, quit your job and
YOLO.
But that can work.
And you can also know like, ifyou're at, you're kind of in a
(35:41):
dead end, hey, you've got somespace to make some decisions and
to advocate for yourself, toinvest in an executive coach all
of those good things, becausethat your financial plan and
your financial circumstances canmake a big difference in what
you can decide to pursue.
I feel like that's exactlyright.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
So just as much as you want to have a financial
strategy, a financial plan,you've got to have a career
strategy, and if you don't know,that's okay, you don't have to
know.
Just come to a coach, go tofriends, go to people that you
admire externally and just havesome ideas.
And just with some ideas, it'samazing then what you can craft.
(36:23):
I was working with a woman lastyear.
She is exceptional and she losther job and was the primary
income provider in her family.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
And it happens to more people than you think when
you're sitting in that momentand thinking I'm this.
You know how did this happen tome?
You are not alone.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yes, no, you're not alone and there's so many people
around you that want to help.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
So sorry to interrupt back to her.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
No, that's such an important, important note to add
, and this woman is amazing, andso she was architecting her
search.
We were working closely on itand, because income was
something that she was reallyconcerned about, she started
putting herself out there forconsulting and through the
(37:14):
networking of the consulting,and she was phenomenally
successful in how she positionedherself and in how she got the
work and at the end of it, aftera year, and and how she got the
work and at the end of it aftera year, not only did she more
than replace the income that shewould have earned had she
continued with her previousemployer, but she got a job
(37:35):
offer from one of her clientsand she is so, just so happy, so
she accepted the offer.
She's working with them, couldnot be happier, could not be
more successful.
But that's something to thinkabout.
If you're in between jobs oryou're thinking of putting
yourself out, there is by doingsome consulting work, that's a
(37:56):
great way for your next employerto say come do this with me
full time.
I actually get job offersfrequently that I turned down
because I love what I do, butI'm not closed off to it,
because you never know whatopportunity could come up.
That could replace this in aneven more meaningful way.
So, but for right now, I'm I'mhappy where I'm at, but it's
(38:20):
it's about talking.
You know, talking to peopleexternally and then always just
testing the waters.
If you've got a skill, ifyou've got a talent, test it, do
a side hustle.
I love the ideas of sidehustles, especially for people
who are thinking about going outon their own.
Test the concept, test yourhypothesis, get some work, do
(38:42):
the side hustle, see ifentrepreneurship is right for
you or you know how you mightneed to change or shift and you
never know.
You may not go end up goinginto business.
You may actually end up landingthe next opportunity at a
bigger salary and a biggerresponsibility level just by
(39:03):
starting a side hustle.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
I love that so much.
And what I'm thinking, as we,you know kind of, are wrapping
up the conversation, is how do Iget more Jackie Simon, wisdom?
And so tell us a little bitmore about where we can find you
, follow you and for thoselistening who are really looking
to you know kind of turbochargetheir own executive journey,
(39:25):
are really looking to you, know,kind of turbocharge their own
executive journey.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
How do they work with you?
Oh, thank you so much for that.
So I love that we want more.
Jackie Simon, I should makebumper stickers.
You can find me so I have mywebsites at
JackieSimonCoachingcom.
I have a very regular andintentional presence on LinkedIn
and I think you'll be sharingout my LinkedIn profile.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Everything's in the show notes.
We'll be happy to do that.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Perfect, but I take a really intentional stance
towards sharing knowledge withindividuals, because knowledge
is power.
So I'd love for you to followme on LinkedIn and feel free to
reach out.
One of the things that I offeranyone who's interested in
coaching is a free discoverycall, Because if you're
(40:15):
exploring coaching for yourselfand really thinking about having
whether it's your executivestrategy or your career strategy
make sure that you're workingwith the coach that really gets
you, that you really vibe with,because chemistry is probably
the most important thing in acoaching relationship.
Yes, the results are important,but you get the results by
(40:39):
having a voice with your coachand through the chemistry and
the vibe that you have with eachother.
It's amazing the things thatyou can accomplish together.
So check outJackieSimonCoachingcom and then
please follow me on LinkedIn.
I love to meet new people,especially if you're here in
Vegas, Henderson, Nevada.
Meet new people, connect withnew people, always happy to
(41:02):
share out and give people ideasso that they can just continue
to grow in what they do.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Well, the next time I'm in Vegas I'm going to try to
see if we can pencil in a lunch.
And thank you, jackie, for your, your advice.
I already, just um am embracingthe reminders that you know
your, your career isn'tsomething that happens to you.
You own that and the resultsand outcomes from it.
(41:28):
And we could all use thosereminders on the opportunities
to really be strategic in ourthinking when it comes to our
career.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Thank you for joining us and have a great week.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Thank you for listening to the Women's Money
Wisdom Podcast.
If you found value in thisepisode, the best way you can
support the podcast is toforward an episode to a friend
or leave a review.
Go to pearlplancom and thepodcast link to get all the
resources and links mentioned.
Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast.
I'm Melissa Joy, a certifiedfinancial planner and the
founder of Pearl Planning.
My goal is to help youstreamline and organize your
finances, navigate big moneydecisions with confidence and be
strategic in order to grow yourwealth.
As a woman, you work hard foryour money and I'm here to help
(00:21):
you make the most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
And I'm here to help you makethe most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
Just a quick note before wedive in.
The information that we shareis meant to educate and inspire,
not serve as personalizedfinancial advice.
Everyone's situation is unique,so be sure to consult with your
own financial professional forguidance that fits your life.
And just so you know, theopinions shared in this podcast
(00:44):
are my own and those of myguests, and they don't
necessarily represent those ofany organizations that I'm
affiliated with.
For more important disclosures,please go to our webpage at
pearlplancom.
Now let's get started.
Welcome back to the Women'sMoney Wisdom Podcast, and I am
thrilled to have our next guest.
(01:05):
She's been on my list for quitea while.
We're going to talk about greatadvice on how to manage your
career.
It's about mentality.
It's about how to think aboutyour human capital, and I'm
thrilled to be joined by JackieSimon, who is an executive coach
and she works with managers,directors, vice presidents and
(01:26):
newly promoted executives.
To step confidently into yourrole, drive results and build
high-performing teams.
Jackie, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Thank you so much, Melissa.
I am so excited to be here.
You rolled out the red carpetfor me and I couldn't be more
thrilled, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Well, the feeling is mutual.
I think you have given amazingadvice to strong female leaders
who we both know, and I'vefollowed you.
You always have greatsuggestions and advice on
LinkedIn, and so I'm excited tohave this conversation today
where we can really dive deeperinto anyone who's looking to
(02:09):
manage your career.
Or I know I've had some clientswho really have their eye on
the prize and say someday I'mgoing to be a vice president,
someday I'm going to run acompany.
How do you turn your kind ofperformance into something that
rewards you both professionallyas well as financially?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Exactly so.
I, you know, I work with thistopic a lot with men and women,
the individuals I coach and sooften I hear the goals around
individuals really wanting tokind of grow in their leadership
and grow in their career.
But what's lacking is a planand a strategy.
(02:48):
It's actually not unlike ourfinancial portfolios.
You know, people come to youfor the strategy so that they
have the advice and the guidancethey need to really grow their
money.
But so many people, so manytimes people come to me and say
these are my goals and then Isay, great, what does that look
like?
How do you get there?
(03:08):
And they say, well, I'm goingto work hard and I say that's
great, but it's now time tostart kind of shifting your
mindset, because hard work iswonderful, but hard work isn't
necessarily going to correlateto the compensation and the
financial reward that you'relooking for in the long term.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Well, I can't tell you how much.
When you work with someonewhere you see their strategic
thinking when it comes to boththeir career and then, of course
, when you have strategy, it'slikely that you're really
working to contribute at thecompany level or team level.
As a business leader, that isan instinct that is so desirable
(03:58):
that you know.
Just having that strategicshift can really automatically
put you at the front of the linefor the next promotion, for the
next big project, for the nextresume builder.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
So a lot of times, with thewomen that I work, with the
individuals I work with, we talkabout leverage, we talk about
transformation and that's reallysuch a huge mindset for so many
professionals and even businessowners.
(04:28):
So it's the shift from thinkingabout trading your time for
money and instead thinking aboutwhat's the transformation that
I can bring as a leader, as anindividual contributor in this
business where I'm working,leader as an individual
contributor in this businesswhere I'm working.
(04:48):
So in the early days of ourcareer, often we look at okay,
I'm going to work hard, I'mgoing to put the time in, people
are going to notice and I'mgoing to do great things, and
before you know it, I'm going tobe in the C-suite, I'm going to
make those executive roles.
But working hard just is notenough and unfortunately,
especially as you get to themore executive roles, but
working hard just is not enoughand unfortunately, especially as
you get to the more seniorroles, it's less likely that you
(05:12):
will be noticed for your hardwork.
The accolades, the recognition,even the increases in salary,
follow more slowly at the seniorlevels, follow more slowly at
the senior levels, unless you'retaking the steps to really
bring visibility not just to thework that you're doing, but
(05:32):
also to the work that your teamis doing as well.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That's so interesting .
I remember early in my careerwhere I didn't even.
I was in the transition spacefrom a job to a career where,
you know, initially I justthought, oh I'll, I'll, I'll
work for a financial planner asan assistant for a while and
then I'll figure out what I wantto do when I grow up.
But I would try to, you know,kind of pull together the work
resume and I really felt like itwas back when the TV show
(06:02):
Survivor was first coming out.
It was like a game of Survivor,Like what do you want to
present?
How can you be valuable?
Things like that.
And I think, if I'm liketalking to someone who may need
services like yours, how wouldyou be able to tell whether you
just were like putting in thework versus having a strategy,
(06:23):
Like what would be thedistinguishing features between
I will always put it, you know,I always do my best and you know
as in as broad of a stroke as Ican, versus I'm a strategic
thinker when it comes to mycareer?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
A lot of it comes through how the individual shows
up when they come to me andwhat the current challenge or
kind of what their currentreality looks like.
So it really depends on thechallenge that the individual
comes to me with, but inevitably, especially at the senior
levels, this topic will come up.
(06:59):
So, interestingly, I had aclient session yesterday and one
of the things that she asked meand I get asked this question
quite a bit was we were talkingaround the challenges of I'm
putting in the work and I don'tfeel like I'm getting anywhere
with my team or my impact.
(07:20):
I feel like the only way toprove myself is to keep working
harder.
And then at one point in thesession she said to me do people
come to you a lot with this?
Like, is this a commonchallenge that people bring to
you?
And I said, oh my gosh, melissa, if I could even had a dollar
for the number of times thatexecutives came to me with that,
(07:41):
I would be retired right now.
You would have set me up withthis amazing financial strategy
and I'd probably be at thecasino or the strip right now
blowing some of my retirement oncramps.
But it definitely is somethingthat comes up.
Quite often is around thisconcept of wait a minute and
(08:03):
this aha moment of I'm notworking to prove myself anymore
because I'm already at the table.
Now I'm working for what's nextin my career, and the way to
get there is by showing otherleaders, showing the company,
what I can do now and growing asuccessful team behind me so
(08:27):
that when I step up and stepinto the next role, there's
somebody else that can take myrole.
In fact, yesterday, part of theconversation was and this comes
up very often for men and womenwas I'm afraid that I'm going
to put myself out of a job, andso that's why, when I you know I
(08:48):
could be doing all this work toresearch and really come up
with strategy and be proactivein my work, but I'll open up
windows in my browser and putaway all the things that I
bookmarked because I'm waitingfor the next, the next emergency
or the next issue that my teamis going to pull me into.
(09:11):
And they said, yeah, that's areally that's a really common
idea, this fear of beingreplaced.
But that's actually what you'reworking for, and that's where
the real financial rewards comeis when you are replaced, not
because you're going to loseyour job, but because either
there's going to be a newopportunity that's created for
(09:31):
you in the company because theysaw the great work that you do,
or somebody is going to comefrom the outside and say you
know what?
I've heard some couple ofreally great things about you.
Let's go have lunch.
Let's go talk about what you doand what you want to do in the
future.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Oh, that's so interesting.
I have benefited from kind ofhaving my career course played
out in a former role where Ithought it was my forever job.
And then, you know, there justcame a point in time, both for
me and the people around me,where I was like I thought, once
I climbed this mountain,everything would feel perfect.
(10:12):
And instead, you know, I'msitting there like is this going
to be the rest of my life?
And at the same time, you know,my leadership peers were like
it doesn't feel like.
You know, you're going to bewho we want to be with.
And so that's when I openedPearl Planning, which was such
an exceptional like that doorclosing, and this door opening
(10:34):
is so rewarding, you know,financially as well as
personally, in terms of the waymy life is, you know, kind of
built today.
But that can feel so scary whenyou're someone who has, when
you're someone who you know hasjust been a loyal contributor,
(10:56):
who has always been rewarded forthat.
So how do you, you know, how doyou coach for the uncertainty
that is required to evolve overtime?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Well, even just with the thought of what's scarier,
the idea of not growing isreally actually, for me, it's a
frightened thought.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Absolutely.
For me too.
It would just be so difficultto be the same every day for
years.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
So we you know I, in some of the work that I've done
I've helped women executiveleaders land jobs.
And you know I've I've helped afew women who are even in their
mid to late sixties.
They're not ready to stopworking, they love what they do,
but they found themselves at apoint where they were in a
(11:51):
layoff and they were reallyafraid about their employability
and what that might look forfor them.
And through the coaching andhelping them kind of make the
transition, they actually landedbetter.
And that's always the goal.
The goal isn't to go backward,no matter what age you are or
where you are in your careermale or female the goal is to
(12:12):
always be moving forward.
The factors that I find arethat really help individuals
work well into their 70s andthese are more specifically,
people who don't own their owncompany but they're working for
employers is just showing thatyou're willing to learn and that
you have an appetite for changeand that you don't want to stop
(12:36):
working or stop learning.
In particular, the people thatshow that.
I've actually seen individualsin there, and this is this gets
frightening, particularly forwomen, because a lot of times
they'll come to me and say youknow, I'm in my mid fifties.
I'm in my late fifties.
I find myself in this positionof having to find the next job.
(12:56):
I don't have a means to retire,but I'm really afraid that no
one's going to hire me.
And I say to them all the timeas long as you show a
willingness to learn and thatyou're continuing to learn and
that you've kept your skills upto date, you will actually
believe it or not.
You will actually have moreease in finding your next job
(13:18):
and a great job than someone whomight be in their early to mid
30s, who shows up and shows thatthey are kind of stuck where
they are and, more importantly,they show that they're kind of
they're not a learner, they're,they're closed.
Uh, there's, there's this ideaaround um active open mindset
and closed mindset.
(13:38):
So the more you show up with anopen mindset, the more likely
that you will have opportunitieswell into the future.
I also find this comes up veryoften people who want to make a
job shift, especially in thiseconomy.
I'm hearing it more and more.
People will say to me you know,if I have to take a step
(13:59):
backward and pay, I'll do that,because once I go into the
company and I show my boss howhard I work and the great work
that I do.
They're going to reward me andI'll say the time to get the
money is going in.
And I say to them I say youknow, I'm not the coach that you
want to work with if you'rewilling to either stay where you
(14:22):
are or go backwards to get thebreak that you want.
There's also this idea of well,if I'm switching industries,
I'll probably have to take astep back and I'll say, no, you
don't.
And that's not the mindset thatI recommend that you go in with
.
Go in with the mindset aroundwhat you're going to do in the
company, the transformation andthe impact that you'll make,
(14:43):
regardless of the industry thatyou're in, if you know,
regardless if this is a newindustry for you and that's what
you base your value on.
So go in and get the money,because the money doesn't follow
once you're in the companytraditionally, unless it's a
huge promotion.
And then, if it's a promotion,negotiate.
(15:05):
Even if you're in the company,negotiate for your salary.
A lot of times they'll come.
Your boss will come to you, hrwill come to you and say, well,
this is kind of the level, so,like you're a level seven
executive.
This is the pay and comp thatcomes with it.
But if it's not the level thatyou want to be at, then ask for
more.
Tell them well, based on theresponsibilities, based on what
(15:27):
I know I'm capable of doing,this is what it needs to look
like, and be willing, be brave,be willing to be told no, you're
probably not going to lose yourjob.
But you may hear no.
And then that's a point whereyou decide is it time for me to
(15:48):
move on?
And the reality is is you'remore likely to get more money
making moves than you arestaying in the company that you
are in currently.
So you've got to kind of findthat sweet spot of when it's
when it's time to move on,because it's time to be seen for
what you're capable of doingand for the compensation that
(16:11):
you deserve.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
So interesting.
I also think when you ask formore, you are automatically once
you start that ask, if there'snot you know kind of bad blood
which is on them not younecessarily then you are
automatically.
Your employer knows the nexttime they review a salary pool
or do you know annual increases.
They know you are engaged andproactive and that automatically
(16:38):
creates an assumption that theywill probably work you in first
for the bumps if there's like alimited budget and I agree with
you I see so many cases wherepeople are radically shift their
comp when they go from onecompany to another.
In many cases you know there'sequity compensation at the new
(17:00):
company and you may not havebeen in line for that at your
current company and you knowthis is just where the company
is choosing to put up.
You know, of course, as afinancial planner increases your
(17:26):
, your financial foundation aswell that's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Any move, even for individuals who may be listening
to the show and are saying,well, this is great, jackie, but
I've been recently laid off.
In order for me to go to thenext job, I might have to take a
pay cut from where I waspreviously.
And I would still advocate forthat individual to think
differently, to kind of shifttheir mindset.
(17:51):
There's just like you said too,there's also ways to negotiate.
Where it may not come in salary, specifically, it could come in
equity, it could come inbonuses.
And the way to truly understandwhat your value is is not to
have the conversationsinternally with HR, with your
boss, with senior leaders, butto have the conversations
(18:14):
externally.
Reach out to people, start tounderstand, based on the work
that you're doing in yourcompany, what does that look
like elsewhere?
Get advice, but that's one ofthe really biggest pieces of
advice that I could leaveindividuals with today is always
(18:35):
be talking and thinking andnetworking outside of the
company because you got to bedoing your research, and the
number of times that I've heardsomeone say you know I made this
job move and I'm actually angrywith my previous employer
because of how little I was paid, but they didn't know until
(18:58):
they actually were either forcedto make a change through a
layoff or they finally just saidit's time for me to move on.
I want to do other things.
So I'm going to look externally.
And it was, it was a shock andI and I feel badly at that point
.
But then I say you've got to.
Now is your chance, today andin the future, to change that
(19:19):
you know, to change thatsituation so that you're never
in this position again.
Always be asking for andadvocating for what you want and
for what you're worth, whatyour value is and what you can
bring.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Yeah, network can be everything, because think about
the people that you may workwith in the corporate world.
While I talk about being anentrepreneur, most of my clients
are, you know, employees and,in many cases, executives, like
the people that you work withand maintain relationships with
people who move to othercompanies.
Companies will often providementorship within the firm, but
(20:04):
you don't have sometimes that'snot as safe of a space as
someone who's outside of thefirm who can advise you on that
strategy that you're talkingabout, jackie, as well as just a
perspective where you know theycan.
There's a little more objective, you know, kind of analysis of
oh, this might be better foryour firm and you know you need
to be advocating for this orthat.
So I think it's it's the peopleyou know are everything in so
(20:28):
many cases for your career.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yes, yes, and the people you know and in fact this
came up in the coaching sessionyesterday not just the people
that you know, but the peoplethat you are choosing to
surround yourself with.
So what came up in thatcoaching session yesterday was
find the leaders three to fiveleaders within the company that
you admire, who are doing thethings that you want to be doing
(20:51):
or who you're anticipating arecomped at the level that you
want to be comped, and get toknow them and learn from them.
And if those people don't existin the company that you're in
currently, find them externally.
But it's really about that.
You know, the thinking ofsurround yourself with the five
(21:12):
best people that you know andwant to be more like as a way to
grow yourself and grow youropportunities and and you know,
financial, your, yourcompensation.
So it's it's always really kindof looking more externally than
(21:35):
it is internally, and that's oneof the things I was guilty of,
it, my career, that's one of thethings that I, I did.
I, I cut my head down, I wasreally focused on doing the work
on the company and I lost sightof what's happening externally.
To get ideas, to bring themback, to work, to better myself
(21:56):
for my own fulfillment.
You name it, but it's reallyimportant not to lose sight of
yourself within the company.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I couldn't agree more .
I think when you make thoseconnections to with people
within the company, it doesn'ttake much right Like, hopefully
you have a chance encounter, youmeet each other, you schedule
some time to connect, but itreally once you have made the
effort a couple times and alsoyou know you may be able to
(22:25):
bring something to the table aswell.
You may be working on something.
When we talk about those open,active learners, you may have
been responsible for somethingthat they haven't worked on yet.
Maybe you're doing AI and theywant to get to know it or
something like that.
So be open with your skill setas well.
But it really only takes a fewtimes before it's a natural
(22:47):
friendship or peer where youdon't have to be as strategic.
It happens more naturally andthose people also could
introduce you to people externalfrom the firm.
If you're looking for thatmentorship, it's more formal but
you need an introduction forthat.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
That's exactly right.
I am working with a womancurrently.
She's incredible and she'sreally grown in her career and
she's been really deliberateabout it.
So at any point in your careerwhere you feel a little lost,
that's a really good point tocheck in with other people who
know you or other people who maybe doing the work that you're
(23:24):
doing.
One of the favorite, mostfavorite questions I have at the
end of, say, a mentorshipprogram or a mentorship meeting
or a networking meeting is askthe person that you've just met
with is there anyone else thatyou think I should know?
And try to leave thosementorship meetings and those
networking meetings with onemore introduction and then reach
(23:48):
out to that person, reallyleverage the introduction,
because you never know whoyou'll be meeting and who you'll
be you know and who what you'lllearn from them.
But this particular woman thatI'm working with, she works for
a global company and the companyis actually headquartered in a
country that is non-Englishspeaking and so there's offices
(24:12):
in the US, but primarily thework is done out of this
particular non-English speakingcountry.
So she got the advice that shereally needed to develop her
relationships with these threeindividuals in the home country
abroad, and boy was she nervousbecause she had never done that
(24:33):
before.
And not only that, there's thislanguage barrier.
So she said I didn't know howto approach it, so I just
approached it at a reallypersonal level.
I went, I introduced myself andwe spent 30 minutes talking
about each other.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Not about that.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, not about work, and there was so much to learn
because she lives in the U S,they live in the, in this
country abroad.
So many things they have.
They're married, they havefamily, so does she just so many
cool things that they couldtalk about?
And at the end of the meetingsshe makes little notes so that
way when she goes back in andshe meets with them she could
(25:12):
say, hey, how's your son'ssoccer game?
Or you know, how's yourdaughter doing, how, how are her
classes going?
But anyway, funny enough, shetold me, and I think this is a
cool thing.
But anyway, funny enough, shetold me, and I with them, as a
result of just working out, youknow, reaching out and building
(25:50):
a relationship with them, andher language skills are
improving because she's alsoreally trying to focus on
building her skills in that, inthe whole Mottless country.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Well, that is a great tactical example of where you
know that might feel awkward ifyou're a listener, but and I can
think of other examples when Iwas younger, if I go to a
conference I'd say I want tohave two or three names that I
can follow up with after, andsome of them would stick where
they became either lifelongfriends, you know professional
(26:16):
resources.
So do be, do, be intentionalwith your time and your energy.
Um, it can really multiply foryou if you, if you use it.
What some would call awkward,but I would say just like you're
describing strategically, thatthat's exactly right and, let's
be honest, it is awkward.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
I'm not here to say that it isn't awkward.
I we were just talking earlieryou and I, melissa that my
family and I moved here to LasVegas five years ago and talk
about, you know, there's thiscommon thought about how
difficult it is to make friendsas an adult.
And boy did I feel that, youknow.
And especially we came herewhen, during COVID, when we were
(26:58):
all masked, so trying to buildthese relationships with masks
on right, and then all of asudden the vaccines start
rolling out and the masks comeoff and then I had to, like
reacquaint myself with what theperson really looks like, and
that was like awkward all overagain, because I had these ideas
of what they look like.
It turns out that's not whatthey look like.
(27:19):
So I live it all the timebecause of, you know, living in
Vegas.
It's such a great conferencetown, so I try to get out to the
conferences and I just, youknow the way to get around it is
, the more you put yourself inthe situation, the easier it
really does get.
I mean, I know it's a cliche, Iknow everybody says it, but it
(27:42):
is really true, just puttingyourself out there, it does get
easier.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Well, that's so valuable, I think, nowadays too,
I've run into so many peoplewho either aren't loving their
job or also feel uncertainty.
You know there's rumors of it.
You know there's rumors of therumor of the destruction of the
(28:16):
US economy is greatlyexaggerated thus far, but
there's, you know, rumblings of.
You know just like, hunker downand stay safe in their role, or
, you know, take these perhapsmore risky or courageous, like
career moves, or, you know, putthemselves out there.
How do you, how do you, managethat dynamic?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
continues to come up, particularly over the last year
or so, with the change in theadministration and the
uncertainty with all kind of thechanges across the US, and then
the impact to the economy.
I mean, are we in a recession,are we not?
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Not yet, I don't think, at least according to.
We're not going on vibes, we'regoing on numbers.
So so far so good.
We'll see what's next and therewill eventually be a recession.
This is just one of the factsof life, right?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
So Right, that's exactly right.
What comes up must come down,kind of thing.
But no, and I think I've.
I continue to ask you know, arewe, aren't we?
And your answer is reallyconsistent with the feedback
that I that I get.
The number one piece of advicethat I would give is don't make
any assumptions, meaning theassumption of I'm safer where I
(29:30):
am than if I put myself outthere and make a change, because
, at the end of the day, nobodyknows that if I had a crystal
ball, oh my gosh, I I wouldn'tbe a coach.
Let me tell you that.
But there are no crystal balls,unfortunately, so nobody really
knows.
And so what I always suggest is, when I'm, when I'm talking
(29:51):
with someone, I'll say, gently,of course well, how do you know
that?
How do you know that it's saferto stay where you are,
especially if you want to go?
And one of the things that Itell people is you, when you've
gotten to the point where it'sreally difficult to kick the
covers off in the morning,that's when you know you've
(30:13):
stayed too long.
So go before it's really hardto get out of bed, and I know
everybody's thinking well, it'sMondays, it's really hard to get
out of bed.
But if you can't find a purposeto your day and something
positive that you're lookingforward to accomplishing or
achieving, then it's getting.
(30:33):
It's either time to go or it's.
It's important to start lookingat your options.
80%, 80 to 85% of jobs comethrough your network.
So there's a ton of frustrationout there from people
rightfully so about job postings.
I applied to this job.
I went back to it yesterday,the job was pulled, it's closed
(30:56):
or I haven't heard anything.
I applied to this job.
I always tell people don't fallin love with the job posting.
So if you see a great jobposting out there, please don't
fall in love with the jobposting, because it's like
hoping and wishing for a changeand there's no certainty that
(31:17):
that job is actually really inexistence.
A lot of companies test thewater and they'll post a job
just to see what the talentlooks like external to the
company and then make decisionsabout whether or not they're
going to promote internally ormaybe close the job rock because
of budgets.
So prove your hypothesis.
(31:38):
I was on a webinar last week andone of the big things that the
takeaway was prove yourhypothesis, think about you,
know what the possibilities areand then test it out, have some
conversations, check outLinkedIn, see if you know anyone
(32:01):
who's connected to someone at acompany that you've always
heard great things about oryou've always wanted to work
there.
It's like your dream employer.
Ask for an introduction tosomeone so you can kind of
understand the landscape there,and the ideal situation not only
is that the job will comethrough your network, but that
believe it or not, even in thisday and age that the job is
actually created for you.
(32:22):
So the company and people meetyou and they say, oh my God,
melissa is outstanding.
We need her on the team becauseof the way that she would fit
with our culture and the skillsthat she would bring.
We don't have anything opencurrently, but what could
Melissa be great at here?
(32:42):
And then the job is written foryou, and that, to me, is that's
goals, is when the job iswritten for you.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
I love that and we did just.
We were just hiring for a roleand changed the position
description when we found theright candidate to be more of it
for them.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yes, and that's one of the things that one of the
reasons why I suggest to peoplenot to fall in love with the job
description is because in myopinion, in my experience, job
descriptions are written for theunicorn, and the reason why is
the hiring manager will writetheir job description and then
they will share the jobdescription with their boss, who
(33:23):
will add some things, and thenthey're going to job description
with their boss, who will addsome things, and then they're
going to send it to HR, totalent, and they're going to add
some things and, before youknow it, there's.
There's nobody on earth thatexists, quite honestly, that
meets all of the requirements ofthe job, and women in
particular are, um, are lesslikely to apply for jobs.
(33:48):
They'll self-select out right,unless they have like 90% of the
experience.
Men apply at 60%, women applyat 90%.
So I always say to my femaleclients I say, if you recognize
50% of this work, apply for thejob, put yourself out there for
it.
And so that's why I say don'tfall in love with the job, fall
(34:10):
in love with the culture, fallin love with what the company
does, its purpose, its mission,who it serves, fall in love with
the people that you would getto work with, but not the job,
because jobs can come and go.
It's about what you can do asyour greater purpose.
That really has the meaning andhas the compensation that
(34:33):
follows.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
I couldn't agree more .
And if I could just put in aplug for financial planning
services, I think that when youintegrate the advice or the
concepts of your financial planinto your considerations for
your career, it can give you thespace to take more risks.
It can let you know that you dohave the space, the emergency
(34:57):
reserves, for a gap inemployment If you decide you
know this isn't working for meanymore, isn't working for me
anymore.
I'm thinking of one client nowwho you know kind of felt like
they'd hit the end of the roadfor their current position and
they were confident in theirnetwork and their skills and and
chose to say this is what I'mgoing to end my work here and um
started looking after they, umput in their notice with their
(35:21):
current job and were able to geta two to three month gap where
they, you know, kind of did somethings for themselves and got a
terrific new position that waslike a step on their career
ladder afterwards.
That's not the I don't startwith like hey, quit your job and
YOLO.
But that can work.
And you can also know like, ifyou're at, you're kind of in a
(35:41):
dead end, hey, you've got somespace to make some decisions and
to advocate for yourself, toinvest in an executive coach all
of those good things, becausethat your financial plan and
your financial circumstances canmake a big difference in what
you can decide to pursue.
I feel like that's exactlyright.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
So just as much as you want to have a financial
strategy, a financial plan,you've got to have a career
strategy, and if you don't know,that's okay, you don't have to
know.
Just come to a coach, go tofriends, go to people that you
admire externally and just havesome ideas.
And just with some ideas, it'samazing then what you can craft.
(36:23):
I was working with a woman lastyear.
She is exceptional and she losther job and was the primary
income provider in her family.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
And it happens to more people than you think when
you're sitting in that momentand thinking I'm this.
You know how did this happen tome?
You are not alone.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yes, no, you're not alone and there's so many people
around you that want to help.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
So sorry to interrupt back to her.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
No, that's such an important, important note to add
, and this woman is amazing, andso she was architecting her
search.
We were working closely on itand, because income was
something that she was reallyconcerned about, she started
putting herself out there forconsulting and through the
(37:14):
networking of the consulting,and she was phenomenally
successful in how she positionedherself and in how she got the
work and at the end of it, aftera year, and and how she got the
work and at the end of it aftera year, not only did she more
than replace the income that shewould have earned had she
continued with her previousemployer, but she got a job
(37:35):
offer from one of her clientsand she is so, just so happy, so
she accepted the offer.
She's working with them, couldnot be happier, could not be
more successful.
But that's something to thinkabout.
If you're in between jobs oryou're thinking of putting
yourself out, there is by doingsome consulting work, that's a
(37:56):
great way for your next employerto say come do this with me
full time.
I actually get job offersfrequently that I turned down
because I love what I do, butI'm not closed off to it,
because you never know whatopportunity could come up.
That could replace this in aneven more meaningful way.
So, but for right now, I'm I'mhappy where I'm at, but it's
(38:20):
it's about talking.
You know, talking to peopleexternally and then always just
testing the waters.
If you've got a skill, ifyou've got a talent, test it, do
a side hustle.
I love the ideas of sidehustles, especially for people
who are thinking about going outon their own.
Test the concept, test yourhypothesis, get some work, do
(38:42):
the side hustle, see ifentrepreneurship is right for
you or you know how you mightneed to change or shift and you
never know.
You may not go end up goinginto business.
You may actually end up landingthe next opportunity at a
bigger salary and a biggerresponsibility level just by
(39:03):
starting a side hustle.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
I love that so much.
And what I'm thinking, as we,you know kind of, are wrapping
up the conversation, is how do Iget more Jackie Simon, wisdom?
And so tell us a little bitmore about where we can find you
, follow you and for thoselistening who are really looking
to you know kind of turbochargetheir own executive journey,
(39:25):
are really looking to you, know,kind of turbocharge their own
executive journey.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
How do they work with you?
Oh, thank you so much for that.
So I love that we want more.
Jackie Simon, I should makebumper stickers.
You can find me so I have mywebsites at
JackieSimonCoachingcom.
I have a very regular andintentional presence on LinkedIn
and I think you'll be sharingout my LinkedIn profile.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Everything's in the show notes.
We'll be happy to do that.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Perfect, but I take a really intentional stance
towards sharing knowledge withindividuals, because knowledge
is power.
So I'd love for you to followme on LinkedIn and feel free to
reach out.
One of the things that I offeranyone who's interested in
coaching is a free discoverycall, Because if you're
(40:15):
exploring coaching for yourselfand really thinking about having
whether it's your executivestrategy or your career strategy
make sure that you're workingwith the coach that really gets
you, that you really vibe with,because chemistry is probably
the most important thing in acoaching relationship.
Yes, the results are important,but you get the results by
(40:39):
having a voice with your coachand through the chemistry and
the vibe that you have with eachother.
It's amazing the things thatyou can accomplish together.
So check outJackieSimonCoachingcom and then
please follow me on LinkedIn.
I love to meet new people,especially if you're here in
Vegas, Henderson, Nevada.
Meet new people, connect withnew people, always happy to
(41:02):
share out and give people ideasso that they can just continue
to grow in what they do.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
Well, the next time I'm in Vegas I'm going to try to
see if we can pencil in a lunch.
And thank you, jackie, for your, your advice.
I already, just um am embracingthe reminders that you know
your, your career isn'tsomething that happens to you.
You own that and the resultsand outcomes from it.
(41:28):
And we could all use thosereminders on the opportunities
to really be strategic in ourthinking when it comes to our
career.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
Thank you for joining us and have a great week.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
Thank you for listening to the Women's Money
Wisdom Podcast.
If you found value in thisepisode, the best way you can
support the podcast is toforward an episode to a friend
or leave a review.
Go to pearlplancom and thepodcast link to get all the
resources and links mentioned.
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