June 24, 2025 • 30 mins
Ever feel like some financial "truths" don't quite add up? In this episode of Women's Money Wisdom, Melissa Joy, CFP®, teams up with colleague Alexa Kane, CFP®, for a candid conversation challenging some of the most widely accepted (but often unexamined) money beliefs.
🔍 What they unpack:
- The Hidden Costs of Buy Now, Pay Later:
From fast food to impulse buys, installment payment apps are everywhere—but at what cost? Melissa and Alexa reveal how these “convenient” options can become debt traps, especially for younger consumers. - The Case Against Aging in Place:
It’s a common goal—but is it always the best one? Learn why staying in your home might not be ideal and how retirement communities could offer more social, emotional, and physical support in the long run.
💬 Expect real stories, smart analysis, and bold perspectives that just might shift your thinking. Plus, a preview of what’s next: a hot take on life insurance as an investment.
🎧 Listen now and consider:
- Are your financial choices based on habit—or strategy?
- Could your assumptions about aging be holding you back?
- Who needs to hear this? Forward it to a friend.
📍Resources and more: pearlplan.com
The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only. No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https:...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast.
I'm Melissa Joy, a certifiedfinancial planner and the
founder of Pearl Planning.
My goal is to help youstreamline and organize your
finances, navigate big moneydecisions with confidence and be
strategic in order to grow yourwealth.
As a woman, you work hard foryour money and I'm here to help
(00:21):
you make the most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
And I'm here to help you makethe most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
Just a quick note before wedive in.
The information that we share ismeant to educate and inspire,
not serve as personalizedfinancial advice.
Everyone's situation is unique,so be sure to consult with your
own financial professional forguidance that fits your life.
And just so you know, theopinions shared in this podcast
(00:44):
are my own and those of myguests, and they don't
necessarily represent those ofany organizations that I'm
affiliated with.
For more important disclosures,please go to our webpage at
pearlplancom.
Now let's get started.
I thought it was time to changethe script, and today we are
going to be talking about hotmoney takes controversial topics
(01:08):
, and I hope this will be arecurring episode type in the
future for Women's Money Wisdom.
I am joined by my colleague,alexa Kane.
Alexa, like myself, is acertified financial planner here
at Pearl Planning in Dexter,michigan.
Alexa, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Thank you.
I'm glad to be here after a fewyears.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, it's been a minute since you joined us, but
we work together every singleday and I thought you'd be
perfect to just talk about someof the you know kind of I don't
know cooler talk that wesometimes have.
I wanted to talk aboutcontroversial topics or topics
that not everybody agrees with,where we have a strong opinion.
It's okay to have opinions, butthis might be an example where,
(01:55):
like in terms of my hot takes,sometimes I'm bringing that
advice into client situationsand mentioning it, so I just
thought I would bring it intothe episode.
So it's no holds barred Tell mehow you really feel and let's
talk about some topics that youknow may have conventional
wisdom different than the way wefeel.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Do you want me to start?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Sure, If you're ready .
I don't want to put you in thehot seat, but let's go for it,
give me your hot take, I think.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Every day, you know, we sit together so we get to
talk about things, and todayit's May 23rd, so just in the
news today it's Klarna had someinformation out about borrowing
and I think that's a good topicfor for a hot take, or I don't
know.
I don't think it's a hot take,but it is.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
My first question was what?
What is Klarna Cause I?
I was like I've heard that name, but who are they.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So, um, klarna, a firm anytime you know Amazon,
you're shopping and it says, hey, do you want to buy the dress
or do you want to pay?
$10 a month for six months, andthey're just basically allowing
you to finance these smallerpurchases.
Klarna had a deal with DoorDash, which is kind of where my hot
(03:20):
take is.
Where my hot take is.
But on Klarna, the one thingthat's coming out is like
between 30 and 50% of adultshave used or are looking to use
these financing services and one.
(03:40):
I think there's a largedifference of financing a couch
or a larger item than your latenight McDonald's order that you
have.
So I guess my hot take would beif you have to finance your
fast food, you probably shouldnot be getting it.
Yeah, I definitely think that.
(04:27):
I think now you know, my kidsprobably will not know how to
count money in the quartersnickels, dimes type of way.
So I think it gets a lot harderto use and spend money when you
don't have the tangible pieceof it that they make everything
(04:48):
so easy.
So I think that over time, youknow you can just access these
things and it doesn't reallyconnect until you look at the,
the balance sheet, and it'snegative.
And there's all theseoutstanding loans for our
McDonald's and Taco Bell things.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
If I'm not mistaken, the interest rates, too, are as
high, or likely higher, thancredit card rates, so we're
talking about astronomicalinterest rates in today's day
and age, today's day and age.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, it's, the rates are high and it's so easy to to
access.
That I think twofold problemand there's multiple companies
out there kind of doing the samething.
So the ability to just get inmore trouble, I think, is it's
(05:42):
out there.
So I would say, maybe not a hottake, but I think a take a lot
of people can can agree on.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Well, I, I, I agree, Like many people can agree on.
But this is probably adiscussion you should be having
in your family because who youknow, think about the door dash
I described to Alexa when wewere preparing for this episode.
I think I've door dashed oncebecause we live in a small town
where it's just not thatconvenient to have your stuff
(06:14):
delivered because there are onlyso many places they're all
within five minutes away andthere just isn't, like you know,
the same as urban centers wherethey're dropping off the door.
But you send your kids, whohaven't been used to that, to
college and you know anybody iswilling to do a delivery to the
dorm room or the campusapartment and that's where you
(06:48):
know are looking for theconvenience they're going to
just swipe the card and pay offtheir credit card at the end of
the month.
This is really appealing to youknow, kind of fringe or
entering the economy,demographic.
It's your kids that you need towarn, or more vulnerable family
members perhaps.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And you know, part of it also goes back to like when
we're talking with clients, Ithink we're not people that will
it's not a place of shame, oryou know spend your money how
you want to spend it, as long aseverything works out.
So it is um, everything can fitin in a plan.
(07:33):
But it goes back to like, okay,you know, if you prioritize
this over that, you know you cando anything, but you can't do
everything.
And as a working mom with threekids, like, yes, sometimes you
need you need the door dash, butyou know then you're
substituting for other things tomake it work within in your
(07:56):
plan and make the the numbers goout.
But I do think having to to dothe financing piece on on the
food is like, okay, that's wherewe might have gone a bit far A
bit.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I mean probably almost every transaction that we
do at least 50%.
If you're someone who shopsonline or for me it's like on my
mobile phone gives you thoseoffers and I always just ignore
them gives you those offers andI always just ignore them, and
you know, fortunately orunfortunately, my digits are
memorized to the phone and it'sjust you know 10 seconds to have
(08:31):
the transaction complete.
But if you are someone who'srelying on those buy now, pay
later, you know kind of regimes,it's probably not just once,
just like you're saying.
I mean back in the day.
Instead of taking the inventoryand getting those for lack of a
(08:53):
better word really modernpayday loans, what people would
do would be to, for example, layaway for items, but they never,
would take those items withthem.
They would, you know, bringtheir $10 to the store every
week so that they could gettheir kids the Christmas
presents and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And so you know, yeah , yeah, At Shopko I remember
yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
A&P?
Yeah, exactly so.
But nowadays, you know we're insuch a fast money economy where
transit and you know peopledon't save for things long term
Everything can be paid for onyour phone.
When you were describing thatour kids don't see physical
money can be paid for on yourphone, when you were describing
(09:41):
that our kids don't see physicalmoney, you know my son was
asking hey, I need to go to abank with all the coins in my
piggy bank to turn them intocash.
I'm like cash Coins are cashdude.
Like news to us, because Ididn't know I needed to cover
that topic in our familypersonal finance class.
But here we are.
But you know it's a vulnerablecohort of people that don't have
(10:03):
the money in their accounttoday.
And if you start to dorecurring transactions, such as
your food, you know, we bothknow that the most economical
food options probably aren't,you know, with the Jimmy john's
driver or the uber eats andthings like that.
So that is just like you know.
I I hope there's a bailout planfor those types of people
(10:26):
within their family network,because if you don't have the
money this week, uh, you'reprobably going to have more
things lining up that you needto pay for next week.
If you're borrowing for the, youknow for the food delivery for
example if you find yourself inthat vortex, maybe you're
listening and you've gotten intothis um, the NPL, um you know
(10:47):
kind of habit.
Do you have any suggestions forhow to dig your way out?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I think one recognizing that, that it's a
problem and then looking at abudget is another hot take.
Maybe is the B word, but Ithink you know, if you get to
that place where it is becoming,a problem is to look at a
(11:15):
budget and really put everythingin there and take a look at
where it's going and identifywhat the issues are of.
Like you, you know we needgroceries, you have to have mire
, you need your gas, like thereare things that are needs, there
are things that are wants, andthen you know, does it fit into
(11:37):
the picture right now?
And also coming coming up witha plan of, ok, we're at this
point and it happens a lot, notjust with these buy now, pay
later stuff, but with justregular credit cards, and
getting into a place where thisinterest is just putting you
even further behind and saying,ok, what's the best plan to get
(12:00):
these paid down?
And then the other part is tonot get in there in that
situation again.
So it is.
You know, either you use abudgeting app or you print out
the credit card statements andget your different color
highlighters this was this wasgroceries, this was X was xyz,
(12:21):
um.
And I think another part islike how were you feeling when
you did these things?
Of clicking by and getting thethings as like a, an instant
little hi or pick me up, andit's kind of identifying like oh
, you know, I do this behaviorwhen I'm feeling this way and
(12:44):
like maybe adjusting what you'redoing to handle the feelings
and stuff of like I.
I like to shop as well.
I shop at the thrift store soit doesn't hit as hard.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
But Alexa's got her shopping down.
We can?
That'll be a future episode,not a hot take episode.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
But you know it's the same, it's your feelings when
you're doing these things oflike oh, I like getting new
clothes when I'm stressed andit's at the thrift store, it's
thirty dollars, it can still addup, but it is.
Oh, I got to eat whenever I hada long day, but it is oh, I got
to eat whenever I had a longday and it's like, OK,
retraining your brain.
(13:23):
Of like, hey, maybe you take awalk, or maybe you call someone
and just have an event sessionand like figuring out you know
where the money's going, butalso why it's going to these
places as well.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, I mean, your example screams impulse, right,
so not to call out my youngerself, but perhaps you know some
of those decisions are made whenyou're exhausted, made when
you're, you know, just kind ofthrowing up your hands or you
may feel depleted about money ingeneral and just like, okay,
just this once, or maybe after along bar night when you're a
(13:58):
college kid or something likethat.
So I do think I'll just throw inthis is definitely like hands
down a bad debt decision andthere's no ifs ands or buts
about it when it comes to thistype of use of funds.
So if you find yourself in thehabit of using those, you know,
(14:21):
kind of like I said, it's justlike old school payday loans
where it's usurious rates it'sreally hard to dig your way out.
You know I'm not typically alike blow everything up, but
this is when you've got to cutoff the cards.
You know, enroll yourself inthe never going onto that site
again, because you can't justlike kind of leave that door
(14:43):
open when you're trying toaddress things um so you know I
will.
My own hot take, though, on theloan situation is that, um, you
know, we have a?
Um conversation about bothnational debt and deficits,
which we're not going to solvetoday, as well as personal um
debt and um, this is this is,like you know, like I said, on
(15:07):
the list of horrible debt, butum, many people will post.
You know, look at us consumerscredit card debt the us consumer
is doomed and, um, my hot takewould be that, overall, on
average and not talking aboutlike, these types of loans serve
a vulnerable population and ayoung population and people that
(15:29):
don't have adequate cash flow,and yet, in general, the
American consumer, or theaverage American, may have
higher and higher credit carddebt, but also, in many cases,
those higher and higher assets.
A lot of those charts don'tfactor in inflation and I don't
(15:49):
see a general American consumercrisis, but I do see a lot of
vulnerability in areas of lessinformed consumers and also just
those at the lower end of thewealth range, and so it's not
all bad debt and we're not injust a general borrowing crisis.
We still see a lot of peoplethat do use credit cards, but
(16:12):
use them responsibly and pay itoff at the end of the month.
So my hot take on your hot takeis there's both good and bad
debt and we're not, you know,kind of going into, you know,
the the newest, 2008 and 2009,where just everybody's upside
down on their whole entirebalance sheets.
(16:33):
So well, let's, I'm willing tobring out my hot take now if you
want to change the subject.
It's completely different.
Subject willing to bring out myhot take now if you want to
change the subject.
It's completely different.
Subject um, but this was kindof um, when I was thinking about
having this format of anepisode.
Um, I described to alexa a bookby an author that we, um, both
read.
(16:53):
So, um, one of both of our well, I hope I'm not speaking out of
turn on your behalf, but AbbyJimenez is one of both of our
favorite authors right Automaticfive stars for me.
Automatic five stars in spite ofmy upcoming hot take.
So if you're an Abby Jimenezfan and read all of her books
and you haven't read her mostrecent books, say you'll
(17:16):
remember me then you may want toskip the rest of the episode
until after you read the book,which we would both recommend
you read.
But she writes great books.
They're romance-y, they're kindof summer beach reads.
They always have, you know, adeeply layered story with
emotions and just really greatcharacter development too.
(17:37):
So five stars for all AbbyJimenez books.
But I read the most recent book,say You'll Remember Me.
And here's the spoiler alertthat it comes up very early in
the book is that the maincharacter, the main female
character's mother, is a earlyonset Alzheimer's patient and
(18:03):
the family has made a majorcommitment for her mother to
stay in the home, and a lot ofthe storyline is about the
consequences of those sacrificesand how it weighs on the family
, and so it's a reallythought-provoking book, along
with a romance that if you don'tread romances, the rule is that
(18:26):
there's always happy endings.
So I found myself telling Alexa,though, that I felt a little
angsty reading the book, whichis not typical when I read these
books by this terrific author,and I came to recognize that the
reason I felt angsty is because, over the years, as a financial
(18:47):
planning practitioner, I feelmore and more conflicted when I
hear a client say I will doeverything I can to never be in
an assisted living facility, anursing facility or in you know
the circumstances of this book amemory care facility.
And so I just thought I wouldtalk about this without breaking
(19:10):
the book under the coals.
I just want to talk about thetopic of, in my opinion as
someone who has seen peopleaging in more active retirement
communities that can transitionto additional levels of skilled
care versus aging in place inthe home, I just don't know that
it's best for everyone to stayat home, and I'm sure that's
(19:32):
controversial.
That's my hot take, but let'stalk about it.
How do you feel, alexa, andwhat have you seen?
And then I'll describe a littlebit about why I feel the way I
feel.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well, I think what a lot of people like the idea of
staying in their home, but Ithink with all the estate
planning topics, a lot of itisn't really about you of, I
guess is how I would put it likeif you know you are planning to
(20:06):
stay in your home, someone hasto do the actual caring, or if
they're not doing the caring,the coordination of, of the, the
care.
So I'll do a side hot take of I.
If you don't do your estateplanning documents, you're doing
a disservice to your family andanyone that you care about.
(20:29):
Amen, it doesn't matter, I'llbe dead people, that's true, you
will not be there, but you knowbeing on the other side and
(21:08):
helping people navigate whathappens after someone passes
away.
It is, you know, like thegreatest gift you can give
somebody is a thoughtful planthat accounts for what should
happen, the decision of oh, Iwould love to stay in my home,
and a lot of homes are not madefor people that are in that
situation.
If you have stairs, if gettinginto the house, getting into the
bathtub, all the things thatare part of that.
And you know, in the book, well,it is the husband, the son, the
main character is the daughter.
(21:29):
There's all these people thatare trying to coordinate.
You know one person will havethe overnight shift and one
person will watch in the morning, and you know just the toll and
the stress it puts on the restof the family.
Even if you hire outside people, you know it's hard to find
(21:52):
people that are willing and ableto provide that care and that
one you're also comfortablehaving in your home.
So it's not as simple as oh,I'm going to stay here, I'm
going to go to a nursing home.
It's a lot to decide on and Ithink you know in the book that
was her wish.
But I think if she would have,you know, known the toll that it
(22:16):
had on the people she caredmost about, she probably would
have made a different, differentdecision to, you know, keep the
family more together.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, I, I just find myself.
You know it's a very sensitivesubject because everyone has
experiences with older family,most people have experiences
with older family members.
No one loves the to contemplateor at least most of us don't
the consequences of aging in ourown lives, and I often have
(22:50):
clients who say, you know, likeno, I'm not going to live that
long, things like that.
Or also, like I said, thosepeople who just say
categorically I we need to makea plan for me to live where I
live, a plan for me to livewhere I live.
But the consequences, even whenyou know you're either taking
(23:11):
care of each other in apartnership where you're both,
you know may have diminishingeither cognitive or physical
abilities, the consequences oflower nutrition when you're
responsible for preparing yourown meals, going out to get your
food and the social isolationof staying in your home are all
(23:33):
things that I wish more peoplewould consider more carefully,
because they can, in fact,advance decline and contribute
to adverse outcomes.
And I think it's easy to sayyou know, I just I don't want to
give up this home for thatfacility, but there's so much of
(23:55):
a compromise in between.
Studies have shown that peoplehave lower bad health outcomes,
lower hospitalization rates whenthey live in active retirement
communities or seniorcommunities, not in assisted
living, relative to those whochoose to stay in you know, kind
of the previous livingarrangement for years prior to
(24:19):
your older years.
And then you also have theconsequences of costs, which it
used to be that you would besaving money with home health
care, um, versus going into um,an assisted living facility or
nursing home.
But I don't know that that isas much of the case nowadays.
(24:42):
With the cost of home care,it's really difficult to keep
home care staff and to findqualified staff that can come in
.
And then it's just a constantneed for case management and
project management to keepthings right and above board.
(25:02):
I was talking about this with adoctor, actually, who I
mentioned.
You know I just have this.
Usually I try to be completelykind of Switzerland when clients
come in and say this is what Iwant, but I felt compelled over
recent years to say more and tochallenge assumptions when it
comes to this type ofconversation.
And she said oh yeah, there'sdefinitely medical evidence that
(25:26):
indicates that you have betteraging outcomes when you choose
to be in a place with moresocialization, more attention to
your medication needs and yournutritional needs and activities
, and perhaps a more activelifestyle.
Yeah, so I encourage you tohave these conversations earlier
(25:49):
and don't not read the bookbecause of this, but do.
If you do read the book, which,like I said, we 100% recommend
we'll include a link in shownotes.
There are so many great readswritten by this author.
But do have a conversation withyour family members about what
you want and and um, but alsowhen you may need to make a
(26:14):
different decision.
Um, that might be best for, inmy opinion, not only the
family's outcomes because inthis book's case, there's a
person who has less and lessmemories, um memories, and
there's adverse outcomes allaround, including safety issues
but also, you know, just havesome frank discussions about and
(26:35):
pepper in some, you know, likekind of everybody has their
worst case scenario, or I don'twant to be like you know the
nursing home grandma was in, butdo pepper in some like evolving
you know kind of realities whenit comes to your options,
because, especially for peoplewho have been careful with their
money, you can make some reallyupfront and independent
(26:56):
decisions that could have alonger pathway.
I've always used the example andI know, alexa, you have heard
me use this example frequentlythat my first and one of my most
important mentors, estelleassumed, chose to go into a
great active living communityand over the years, has been
(27:32):
aging in a place in thatcommunity that she chose along
with her husband, and I justreally see the value to being
around other active, engaged,similar, like-minded people in
terms of just a beautiful, youknow kind of process for aging,
and so I encourage people toconsider that that could be an
(27:53):
outcome and but it was all aboutbeing a family that was open to
change and change by their owndesign.
We're not always afforded thatoption when people wait to make
adjustments and sometimes youjust can't control that.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah.
I also have had clients thathave made the decision as well
to move into a community, and Ithink it gives them the control
of you're doing somethingbecause you want to, not because
you have to, and they were ableto clean out their old house.
They got to go through all theboxes.
(28:29):
The kids were happy, theydidn't have to, you know, pick
which things to save and whichthings not to save.
I know even now when I go home,like we don't need this, why
did you keep this from when Iwas in middle school?
Like you know, there's it's alot of things that fall to the
(28:51):
people doing the care, and notjust you know where you're going
.
But then what do you do withall the, all the things and
what's important too?
Speaker 1 (29:01):
It's so much easier to lay out that game plan or
thought, talk about ittheoretically in your 50s, 60s
or 70s versus just in a crisiswhere, if you didn't have the
original game plan, it would bemuch more difficult to feel okay
when you're, you know, could bedealing with emerging issues at
the same time.
Well, I loved the opportunityto discuss our hot takes.
(29:26):
Alexa, will you be keeping aneye out for some future hot
takes?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
yeah, I have a teaser of what we can talk about next
time.
Oh, tell me, what are we?
What's the preview?
Speaker 1 (29:40):
life insurance oh, life insurance is an investment.
Yes, oh, the hot takes will behot and on fire for that one.
Let's have that discussion soonthat needs its own episode okay
, sounds good.
hot takes um insurance versioncoming to you soon, but in the
(30:02):
meantime, have a great week weekeverybody.
Thanks Alexa.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Thank you for listening to theWomen's Money Wisdom Podcast.
If you found value in thisepisode.
(30:24):
The best way you can supportthe podcast is to forward an
episode to a friend or leave areview.
Go to pearlplancom and thepodcast link to get all the
resources and links mentioned.
Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast.
I'm Melissa Joy, a certifiedfinancial planner and the
founder of Pearl Planning.
My goal is to help youstreamline and organize your
finances, navigate big moneydecisions with confidence and be
strategic in order to grow yourwealth.
As a woman, you work hard foryour money and I'm here to help
(00:21):
you make the most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
And I'm here to help you makethe most of it.
Now let's get into the show.
Just a quick note before wedive in.
The information that we share ismeant to educate and inspire,
not serve as personalizedfinancial advice.
Everyone's situation is unique,so be sure to consult with your
own financial professional forguidance that fits your life.
And just so you know, theopinions shared in this podcast
(00:44):
are my own and those of myguests, and they don't
necessarily represent those ofany organizations that I'm
affiliated with.
For more important disclosures,please go to our webpage at
pearlplancom.
Now let's get started.
I thought it was time to changethe script, and today we are
going to be talking about hotmoney takes controversial topics
(01:08):
, and I hope this will be arecurring episode type in the
future for Women's Money Wisdom.
I am joined by my colleague,alexa Kane.
Alexa, like myself, is acertified financial planner here
at Pearl Planning in Dexter,michigan.
Alexa, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Thank you.
I'm glad to be here after a fewyears.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, it's been a minute since you joined us, but
we work together every singleday and I thought you'd be
perfect to just talk about someof the you know kind of I don't
know cooler talk that wesometimes have.
I wanted to talk aboutcontroversial topics or topics
that not everybody agrees with,where we have a strong opinion.
It's okay to have opinions, butthis might be an example where,
(01:55):
like in terms of my hot takes,sometimes I'm bringing that
advice into client situationsand mentioning it, so I just
thought I would bring it intothe episode.
So it's no holds barred Tell mehow you really feel and let's
talk about some topics that youknow may have conventional
wisdom different than the way wefeel.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Do you want me to start?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Sure, If you're ready .
I don't want to put you in thehot seat, but let's go for it,
give me your hot take, I think.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Every day, you know, we sit together so we get to
talk about things, and todayit's May 23rd, so just in the
news today it's Klarna had someinformation out about borrowing
and I think that's a good topicfor for a hot take, or I don't
know.
I don't think it's a hot take,but it is.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
My first question was what?
What is Klarna Cause I?
I was like I've heard that name, but who are they.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So, um, klarna, a firm anytime you know Amazon,
you're shopping and it says, hey, do you want to buy the dress
or do you want to pay?
$10 a month for six months, andthey're just basically allowing
you to finance these smallerpurchases.
Klarna had a deal with DoorDash, which is kind of where my hot
(03:20):
take is.
Where my hot take is.
But on Klarna, the one thingthat's coming out is like
between 30 and 50% of adultshave used or are looking to use
these financing services and one.
(03:40):
I think there's a largedifference of financing a couch
or a larger item than your latenight McDonald's order that you
have.
So I guess my hot take would beif you have to finance your
fast food, you probably shouldnot be getting it.
Yeah, I definitely think that.
(04:27):
I think now you know, my kidsprobably will not know how to
count money in the quartersnickels, dimes type of way.
So I think it gets a lot harderto use and spend money when you
don't have the tangible pieceof it that they make everything
(04:48):
so easy.
So I think that over time, youknow you can just access these
things and it doesn't reallyconnect until you look at the,
the balance sheet, and it'snegative.
And there's all theseoutstanding loans for our
McDonald's and Taco Bell things.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
If I'm not mistaken, the interest rates, too, are as
high, or likely higher, thancredit card rates, so we're
talking about astronomicalinterest rates in today's day
and age, today's day and age.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Yeah, it's, the rates are high and it's so easy to to
access.
That I think twofold problemand there's multiple companies
out there kind of doing the samething.
So the ability to just get inmore trouble, I think, is it's
(05:42):
out there.
So I would say, maybe not a hottake, but I think a take a lot
of people can can agree on.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Well, I, I, I agree, Like many people can agree on.
But this is probably adiscussion you should be having
in your family because who youknow, think about the door dash
I described to Alexa when wewere preparing for this episode.
I think I've door dashed oncebecause we live in a small town
where it's just not thatconvenient to have your stuff
(06:14):
delivered because there are onlyso many places they're all
within five minutes away andthere just isn't, like you know,
the same as urban centers wherethey're dropping off the door.
But you send your kids, whohaven't been used to that, to
college and you know anybody iswilling to do a delivery to the
dorm room or the campusapartment and that's where you
(06:48):
know are looking for theconvenience they're going to
just swipe the card and pay offtheir credit card at the end of
the month.
This is really appealing to youknow, kind of fringe or
entering the economy,demographic.
It's your kids that you need towarn, or more vulnerable family
members perhaps.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
And you know, part of it also goes back to like when
we're talking with clients, Ithink we're not people that will
it's not a place of shame, oryou know spend your money how
you want to spend it, as long aseverything works out.
So it is um, everything can fitin in a plan.
(07:33):
But it goes back to like, okay,you know, if you prioritize
this over that, you know you cando anything, but you can't do
everything.
And as a working mom with threekids, like, yes, sometimes you
need you need the door dash, butyou know then you're
substituting for other things tomake it work within in your
(07:56):
plan and make the the numbers goout.
But I do think having to to dothe financing piece on on the
food is like, okay, that's wherewe might have gone a bit far A
bit.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I mean probably almost every transaction that we
do at least 50%.
If you're someone who shopsonline or for me it's like on my
mobile phone gives you thoseoffers and I always just ignore
them gives you those offers andI always just ignore them, and
you know, fortunately orunfortunately, my digits are
memorized to the phone and it'sjust you know 10 seconds to have
(08:31):
the transaction complete.
But if you are someone who'srelying on those buy now, pay
later, you know kind of regimes,it's probably not just once,
just like you're saying.
I mean back in the day.
Instead of taking the inventoryand getting those for lack of a
(08:53):
better word really modernpayday loans, what people would
do would be to, for example, layaway for items, but they never,
would take those items withthem.
They would, you know, bringtheir $10 to the store every
week so that they could gettheir kids the Christmas
presents and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
And so you know, yeah , yeah, At Shopko I remember
yeah, the.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
A&P?
Yeah, exactly so.
But nowadays, you know we're insuch a fast money economy where
transit and you know peopledon't save for things long term
Everything can be paid for onyour phone.
When you were describing thatour kids don't see physical
money can be paid for on yourphone, when you were describing
(09:41):
that our kids don't see physicalmoney, you know my son was
asking hey, I need to go to abank with all the coins in my
piggy bank to turn them intocash.
I'm like cash Coins are cashdude.
Like news to us, because Ididn't know I needed to cover
that topic in our familypersonal finance class.
But here we are.
But you know it's a vulnerablecohort of people that don't have
(10:03):
the money in their accounttoday.
And if you start to dorecurring transactions, such as
your food, you know, we bothknow that the most economical
food options probably aren't,you know, with the Jimmy john's
driver or the uber eats andthings like that.
So that is just like you know.
I I hope there's a bailout planfor those types of people
(10:26):
within their family network,because if you don't have the
money this week, uh, you'reprobably going to have more
things lining up that you needto pay for next week.
If you're borrowing for the, youknow for the food delivery for
example if you find yourself inthat vortex, maybe you're
listening and you've gotten intothis um, the NPL, um you know
(10:47):
kind of habit.
Do you have any suggestions forhow to dig your way out?
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I think one recognizing that, that it's a
problem and then looking at abudget is another hot take.
Maybe is the B word, but Ithink you know, if you get to
that place where it is becoming,a problem is to look at a
(11:15):
budget and really put everythingin there and take a look at
where it's going and identifywhat the issues are of.
Like you, you know we needgroceries, you have to have mire
, you need your gas, like thereare things that are needs, there
are things that are wants, andthen you know, does it fit into
(11:37):
the picture right now?
And also coming coming up witha plan of, ok, we're at this
point and it happens a lot, notjust with these buy now, pay
later stuff, but with justregular credit cards, and
getting into a place where thisinterest is just putting you
even further behind and saying,ok, what's the best plan to get
(12:00):
these paid down?
And then the other part is tonot get in there in that
situation again.
So it is.
You know, either you use abudgeting app or you print out
the credit card statements andget your different color
highlighters this was this wasgroceries, this was X was xyz,
(12:21):
um.
And I think another part islike how were you feeling when
you did these things?
Of clicking by and getting thethings as like a, an instant
little hi or pick me up, andit's kind of identifying like oh
, you know, I do this behaviorwhen I'm feeling this way and
(12:44):
like maybe adjusting what you'redoing to handle the feelings
and stuff of like I.
I like to shop as well.
I shop at the thrift store soit doesn't hit as hard.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
But Alexa's got her shopping down.
We can?
That'll be a future episode,not a hot take episode.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
But you know it's the same, it's your feelings when
you're doing these things oflike oh, I like getting new
clothes when I'm stressed andit's at the thrift store, it's
thirty dollars, it can still addup, but it is.
Oh, I got to eat whenever I hada long day, but it is oh, I got
to eat whenever I had a longday and it's like, OK,
retraining your brain.
(13:23):
Of like, hey, maybe you take awalk, or maybe you call someone
and just have an event sessionand like figuring out you know
where the money's going, butalso why it's going to these
places as well.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, I mean, your example screams impulse, right,
so not to call out my youngerself, but perhaps you know some
of those decisions are made whenyou're exhausted, made when
you're, you know, just kind ofthrowing up your hands or you
may feel depleted about money ingeneral and just like, okay,
just this once, or maybe after along bar night when you're a
(13:58):
college kid or something likethat.
So I do think I'll just throw inthis is definitely like hands
down a bad debt decision andthere's no ifs ands or buts
about it when it comes to thistype of use of funds.
So if you find yourself in thehabit of using those, you know,
(14:21):
kind of like I said, it's justlike old school payday loans
where it's usurious rates it'sreally hard to dig your way out.
You know I'm not typically alike blow everything up, but
this is when you've got to cutoff the cards.
You know, enroll yourself inthe never going onto that site
again, because you can't justlike kind of leave that door
(14:43):
open when you're trying toaddress things um so you know I
will.
My own hot take, though, on theloan situation is that, um, you
know, we have a?
Um conversation about bothnational debt and deficits,
which we're not going to solvetoday, as well as personal um
debt and um, this is this is,like you know, like I said, on
(15:07):
the list of horrible debt, butum, many people will post.
You know, look at us consumerscredit card debt the us consumer
is doomed and, um, my hot takewould be that, overall, on
average and not talking aboutlike, these types of loans serve
a vulnerable population and ayoung population and people that
(15:29):
don't have adequate cash flow,and yet, in general, the
American consumer, or theaverage American, may have
higher and higher credit carddebt, but also, in many cases,
those higher and higher assets.
A lot of those charts don'tfactor in inflation and I don't
(15:49):
see a general American consumercrisis, but I do see a lot of
vulnerability in areas of lessinformed consumers and also just
those at the lower end of thewealth range, and so it's not
all bad debt and we're not injust a general borrowing crisis.
We still see a lot of peoplethat do use credit cards, but
(16:12):
use them responsibly and pay itoff at the end of the month.
So my hot take on your hot takeis there's both good and bad
debt and we're not, you know,kind of going into, you know,
the the newest, 2008 and 2009,where just everybody's upside
down on their whole entirebalance sheets.
(16:33):
So well, let's, I'm willing tobring out my hot take now if you
want to change the subject.
It's completely different.
Subject willing to bring out myhot take now if you want to
change the subject.
It's completely different.
Subject um, but this was kindof um, when I was thinking about
having this format of anepisode.
Um, I described to alexa a bookby an author that we, um, both
read.
(16:53):
So, um, one of both of our well, I hope I'm not speaking out of
turn on your behalf, but AbbyJimenez is one of both of our
favorite authors right Automaticfive stars for me.
Automatic five stars in spite ofmy upcoming hot take.
So if you're an Abby Jimenezfan and read all of her books
and you haven't read her mostrecent books, say you'll
(17:16):
remember me then you may want toskip the rest of the episode
until after you read the book,which we would both recommend
you read.
But she writes great books.
They're romance-y, they're kindof summer beach reads.
They always have, you know, adeeply layered story with
emotions and just really greatcharacter development too.
(17:37):
So five stars for all AbbyJimenez books.
But I read the most recent book,say You'll Remember Me.
And here's the spoiler alertthat it comes up very early in
the book is that the maincharacter, the main female
character's mother, is a earlyonset Alzheimer's patient and
(18:03):
the family has made a majorcommitment for her mother to
stay in the home, and a lot ofthe storyline is about the
consequences of those sacrificesand how it weighs on the family
, and so it's a reallythought-provoking book, along
with a romance that if you don'tread romances, the rule is that
(18:26):
there's always happy endings.
So I found myself telling Alexa,though, that I felt a little
angsty reading the book, whichis not typical when I read these
books by this terrific author,and I came to recognize that the
reason I felt angsty is because, over the years, as a financial
(18:47):
planning practitioner, I feelmore and more conflicted when I
hear a client say I will doeverything I can to never be in
an assisted living facility, anursing facility or in you know
the circumstances of this book amemory care facility.
And so I just thought I wouldtalk about this without breaking
(19:10):
the book under the coals.
I just want to talk about thetopic of, in my opinion as
someone who has seen peopleaging in more active retirement
communities that can transitionto additional levels of skilled
care versus aging in place inthe home, I just don't know that
it's best for everyone to stayat home, and I'm sure that's
(19:32):
controversial.
That's my hot take, but let'stalk about it.
How do you feel, alexa, andwhat have you seen?
And then I'll describe a littlebit about why I feel the way I
feel.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Well, I think what a lot of people like the idea of
staying in their home, but Ithink with all the estate
planning topics, a lot of itisn't really about you of, I
guess is how I would put it likeif you know you are planning to
(20:06):
stay in your home, someone hasto do the actual caring, or if
they're not doing the caring,the coordination of, of the, the
care.
So I'll do a side hot take of I.
If you don't do your estateplanning documents, you're doing
a disservice to your family andanyone that you care about.
(20:29):
Amen, it doesn't matter, I'llbe dead people, that's true, you
will not be there, but you knowbeing on the other side and
(21:08):
helping people navigate whathappens after someone passes
away.
It is, you know, like thegreatest gift you can give
somebody is a thoughtful planthat accounts for what should
happen, the decision of oh, Iwould love to stay in my home,
and a lot of homes are not madefor people that are in that
situation.
If you have stairs, if gettinginto the house, getting into the
bathtub, all the things thatare part of that.
And you know, in the book, well,it is the husband, the son, the
main character is the daughter.
(21:29):
There's all these people thatare trying to coordinate.
You know one person will havethe overnight shift and one
person will watch in the morning, and you know just the toll and
the stress it puts on the restof the family.
Even if you hire outside people, you know it's hard to find
(21:52):
people that are willing and ableto provide that care and that
one you're also comfortablehaving in your home.
So it's not as simple as oh,I'm going to stay here, I'm
going to go to a nursing home.
It's a lot to decide on and Ithink you know in the book that
was her wish.
But I think if she would have,you know, known the toll that it
(22:16):
had on the people she caredmost about, she probably would
have made a different, differentdecision to, you know, keep the
family more together.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, I, I just find myself.
You know it's a very sensitivesubject because everyone has
experiences with older family,most people have experiences
with older family members.
No one loves the to contemplateor at least most of us don't
the consequences of aging in ourown lives, and I often have
(22:50):
clients who say, you know, likeno, I'm not going to live that
long, things like that.
Or also, like I said, thosepeople who just say
categorically I we need to makea plan for me to live where I
live, a plan for me to livewhere I live.
But the consequences, even whenyou know you're either taking
(23:11):
care of each other in apartnership where you're both,
you know may have diminishingeither cognitive or physical
abilities, the consequences oflower nutrition when you're
responsible for preparing yourown meals, going out to get your
food and the social isolationof staying in your home are all
(23:33):
things that I wish more peoplewould consider more carefully,
because they can, in fact,advance decline and contribute
to adverse outcomes.
And I think it's easy to sayyou know, I just I don't want to
give up this home for thatfacility, but there's so much of
(23:55):
a compromise in between.
Studies have shown that peoplehave lower bad health outcomes,
lower hospitalization rates whenthey live in active retirement
communities or seniorcommunities, not in assisted
living, relative to those whochoose to stay in you know, kind
of the previous livingarrangement for years prior to
(24:19):
your older years.
And then you also have theconsequences of costs, which it
used to be that you would besaving money with home health
care, um, versus going into um,an assisted living facility or
nursing home.
But I don't know that that isas much of the case nowadays.
(24:42):
With the cost of home care,it's really difficult to keep
home care staff and to findqualified staff that can come in
.
And then it's just a constantneed for case management and
project management to keepthings right and above board.
(25:02):
I was talking about this with adoctor, actually, who I
mentioned.
You know I just have this.
Usually I try to be completelykind of Switzerland when clients
come in and say this is what Iwant, but I felt compelled over
recent years to say more and tochallenge assumptions when it
comes to this type ofconversation.
And she said oh yeah, there'sdefinitely medical evidence that
(25:26):
indicates that you have betteraging outcomes when you choose
to be in a place with moresocialization, more attention to
your medication needs and yournutritional needs and activities
, and perhaps a more activelifestyle.
Yeah, so I encourage you tohave these conversations earlier
(25:49):
and don't not read the bookbecause of this, but do.
If you do read the book, which,like I said, we 100% recommend
we'll include a link in shownotes.
There are so many great readswritten by this author.
But do have a conversation withyour family members about what
you want and and um, but alsowhen you may need to make a
(26:14):
different decision.
Um, that might be best for, inmy opinion, not only the
family's outcomes because inthis book's case, there's a
person who has less and lessmemories, um memories, and
there's adverse outcomes allaround, including safety issues
but also, you know, just havesome frank discussions about and
(26:35):
pepper in some, you know, likekind of everybody has their
worst case scenario, or I don'twant to be like you know the
nursing home grandma was in, butdo pepper in some like evolving
you know kind of realities whenit comes to your options,
because, especially for peoplewho have been careful with their
money, you can make some reallyupfront and independent
(26:56):
decisions that could have alonger pathway.
I've always used the example andI know, alexa, you have heard
me use this example frequentlythat my first and one of my most
important mentors, estelleassumed, chose to go into a
great active living communityand over the years, has been
(27:32):
aging in a place in thatcommunity that she chose along
with her husband, and I justreally see the value to being
around other active, engaged,similar, like-minded people in
terms of just a beautiful, youknow kind of process for aging,
and so I encourage people toconsider that that could be an
(27:53):
outcome and but it was all aboutbeing a family that was open to
change and change by their owndesign.
We're not always afforded thatoption when people wait to make
adjustments and sometimes youjust can't control that.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yeah.
I also have had clients thathave made the decision as well
to move into a community, and Ithink it gives them the control
of you're doing somethingbecause you want to, not because
you have to, and they were ableto clean out their old house.
They got to go through all theboxes.
(28:29):
The kids were happy, theydidn't have to, you know, pick
which things to save and whichthings not to save.
I know even now when I go home,like we don't need this, why
did you keep this from when Iwas in middle school?
Like you know, there's it's alot of things that fall to the
(28:51):
people doing the care, and notjust you know where you're going
.
But then what do you do withall the, all the things and
what's important too?
Speaker 1 (29:01):
It's so much easier to lay out that game plan or
thought, talk about ittheoretically in your 50s, 60s
or 70s versus just in a crisiswhere, if you didn't have the
original game plan, it would bemuch more difficult to feel okay
when you're, you know, could bedealing with emerging issues at
the same time.
Well, I loved the opportunityto discuss our hot takes.
(29:26):
Alexa, will you be keeping aneye out for some future hot
takes?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
yeah, I have a teaser of what we can talk about next
time.
Oh, tell me, what are we?
What's the preview?
Speaker 1 (29:40):
life insurance oh, life insurance is an investment.
Yes, oh, the hot takes will behot and on fire for that one.
Let's have that discussion soonthat needs its own episode okay
, sounds good.
hot takes um insurance versioncoming to you soon, but in the
(30:02):
meantime, have a great week weekeverybody.
Thanks Alexa.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Thank you for listening to theWomen's Money Wisdom Podcast.
If you found value in thisepisode.
(30:24):
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episode to a friend or leave areview.
Go to pearlplancom and thepodcast link to get all the
resources and links mentioned.
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