January 15, 2025 • 49 mins
This podcast episode is all about STRETCHING. Yogi Aaron is a yoga instructor and coach teaching people worldwide about muscle activation technique, and how it’s helped transform his own life and get rid of his own back and sciatica issues.
Few years back, Aaron struggled with such debilitating pain that surgeons considered performing a lumbar fusion. After constant trials, Aaron found a system that has enabled him to bypass surgery and stay pain-free with his practice and he’s inspired others to do the same.
If you’ve been someone struggling with pain that has tried constant stretching, or maybe have gone to practitioners to get relief from tightness and pain, I implore you to listen to this episode.
Also Aaron host a 7 day series on his website https://yogiaaron.com where you can try his methods from home.
Privileged to have amazing people like this on my podcast. If you liked this episode, please support by providing a 5 star review! This will help to reach more people who could benefit!
To moving pain-free,
Dr. Jason Won
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Interested in working with us? We're looking for healthcare workers, busy parents, and working professionals over 30 who want to eliminate chronic pain from their life so they can enjoy a more active life with their friends & family. We've helped over 550 people find long term success in becoming pain-free. Book a call here to speak with us: https://www.flexwithdoctorjay.co/book
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
All right.
So welcome to the Won Body WonLife Podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, Dr.
Jason Won, lifestyle, physicaltherapist.
I speak to you guys, anything inregards to orthopedics chronic
pain, helping you to live ahealthier, stronger, more
resilient and fulfilling life,and I also love to bring on very
special guest, Dr.
That want to express theirexpertise and also coincide with
(00:22):
my mission to help you live ahealthier life.
And today I have a very specialguest.
His name is Yogi Aaron and hecome.
He's based out of Costa Rica.
I think he's for I think you arefrom Canada.
And I'd love to just talk withyou about this topic here, which
is why stretching may be causingmore harm than good.
(00:43):
And I know that you have yourown journey on how you went
through your own journey, butalso how you were able to
inspire other people to abide byyour philosophy.
And I'd love to walking man.
So yo Aaron, thank you so muchfor being here.
Thanks so much for having me.
And when I saw your podcast, Iknew right away that we would be
a great fit.
So we're both on a mission tohelp people live their best pain
(01:06):
free life and having been aperson who has experienced so
much chronic pain I think thegreatest tragedy is people who
are living with pain that don'tYou Have to live with pain.
Just with a few either lifestyletweaks, like when I say tweaks,
like small tweaks, like smalladjustments, and also bringing
in some intelligent movementbased exercise, they can get rid
(01:29):
of their pain sometimes like ina day.
Or two, very seldom.
Does it take me a long time toget people rid of people's pain?
I work a lot with many people,especially during a, what I call
a two week yoga immersion andalways by day six, somewhere
between day six and day eight,everybody is pain free.
(01:49):
So you asked me my own journey.
I started off teaching yoga ordoing yoga rather because I had
really tight Muscles, especiallytight hamstrings.
I was like a typical, young manwho couldn't, bending forward,
couldn't get my hands past myknees and without screaming, so
(02:12):
I thought I should stretch moreand yoga seemed to be a really
good way to do that.
And like probably most of yourlisteners, I equated yoga with
stretching.
So I got into yoga really tostretch my hamstrings shortly
after I started doing yoga.
When something happened to me,my back went out, like I tweaked
(02:34):
my back and that was the firsttime that ever had happened to
me.
It didn't happen just forclarity in a yoga was.
I bent over to pick somethingup, but that was okay, I need to
stretch more because I've gotreally tight hamstrings.
And I was told that they'repulling on my back muscles and
causing a lot of problems, whichwas about 25 percent true.
(02:59):
The remedy wasn't, but anyways,I digress.
So I got into yoga more andmore.
I became a teacher.
One of the things just as a sidenote that got me more and more
into yoga was the power ofconcentration.
As I did more yoga, a lot of mysymptoms of ADD were dissipating
and I was able to really focusmy mind.
(03:21):
And so there was like a lot ofthese.
Benefits that came up more andmore, but I always was hurting
my back and then I startedhurting other areas of my body
which I can get into if you'reinterested, but I eventually 25
years after practicing yoga anddealing with intense chronic
(03:42):
pain.
Issues that kind of would go upand down and up and down.
And I spent, can't even tell youhow much money I've spent with
acupuncturist, chiropractorsmassage therapists, even people
waving crystals over anything toget out of pain.
When you're in pain, you justwant to get rid of it.
(04:03):
And so I ended up 25 years laterin the emergency room of a
hospital with an orthopedicsurgeon telling me that I
probably would need a spinalfusion in my lower back.
And that was a real hard momentto take because I had spent the
previous, obviously 25 years.
As a quote unquote movementspecialist, telling people how
(04:24):
to move training people in theirbody.
And here I was, facing the exactsame exact thing that I was
trying to avoid.
So I, at that moment, I askedthe question what don't I know?
And that led me on this journeyof studying a systemology called
muscle activation technique.
(04:46):
It was created by a man namedGreg Roscoff, who's located out
of Denver for anybody who'sinterested.
And that right away, opened myeyes up.
The very first thing I realizedwas I don't know anything.
I felt like I didn't, I feltlike everything I knew.
That was in the yoga world wasall pseudoscience based, like
(05:08):
there was no practicalapplication.
The only thing I was concernedabout was just different hacks
to stretch more, like a lot ofwhat's taught in the yoga world
is stretching world is even alot of smoke and mirrors.
Just to be able to get into aposture or be able to stretch
(05:30):
more.
And so that's what has inspiredthis journey of bringing muscle
activation into yoga to flippingthe script on yoga instead of
stretching to make it more aboutactivation.
And it's in the activation realmthat we create more.
And in harness the power ofstability and bring stability
(05:52):
into our body.
Absolutely.
I think we're going todefinitely hit on more things.
I know we want to.
I definitely want to nerd outwith you.
Cause you even said it topreface this call that I love
the anatomy.
And I was like, dude I'm totallyfor that.
So I want to share with peopleabout, in general, like muscle
activation, especially from aphysical therapy standpoint,
(06:12):
being stronger within ranges ofmotion is what creates
stability.
I've had a lot of even yogis andyoga therapists that they were,
there, there's a lot of womenand maybe more so women, I would
say that Women tend to be moreon the hyper mobile side.
So I've had a lot of women cometo my practice and they're like,
(06:33):
man, my hamstrings and my lowback is so dang tight.
And I'm like, I stretch all thetime.
And so when you do this test,which we call like the straight
leg raise test, you lie somebodydown.
And you lift their leg up withtheir knee straight, and you can
see you can cram their knee allthe way into their nose, right?
It's okay you have pretty muchlimitless hamstring flexibility.
(06:54):
And I'm going to say the wordflexibility versus mobility, and
we can define what that means.
I was like, okay, I'm prettysure that, you're pretty dang
mobile.
And she's yeah.
I work on it a lot and I'm like,so you really believe that more
stretching is going to solveyour issues.
And she's think so.
And so when you start to getthem into stuff, like you said,
like muscle activation, youstart to add some strength to
(07:17):
the mix.
You start to teach them how likecore stability and strengthening
their hamstrings and putting adumbbell in their hand and,
lifting it up and down andgetting the hamstrings actually
contract and get more, getstronger.
Then they realize whoa, it'slike I have the same, they might
have the same amount offlexibility because they're born
with it.
But.
They feel so much better.
So I'm very excited to enlightenfurther on the topic.
(07:39):
May you define like what muscleactivation is and how it worked
for people?
Yeah, sure.
I think I just want to prefacethis though, like on, on Greg's
journey to creating muscleactivation technique it wasn't a
single line of course, isnothing ever is, but what he
started to realize is that Wasthat muscle tightness in the
(08:04):
body?
Cause he worked, he, Greg worksa lot with high functioning
athletes, especially NFL.
I hope I said that footballplayers.
And right now, like he workswith the Denver Broncos.
And, but he was asking thequestion, why are muscles tight?
What he came to realize is.
Is that they're tight from aneurological perspective, the
(08:26):
body senses instability and soit tightens up.
For example, with me and thereason why I got into yoga and
decided I should stretch isbecause I had really tight
hamstrings that could barelybend forward.
Yeah.
What was happening at aneurological level was my body
was basically saying it doesn'tfeel stable to go past this
(08:50):
point.
Tightness is telling you don'tgo past this point because
you're not going to be safe.
Or that we don't feel safe.
And when I say we, this is ofcourse happening at an autonomic
level.
Like we're not aware, likethere's not a committee like
that movie that came out withall of the feelings that have,
but so what we need to do isaddress the instability and
(09:15):
instead of me focusing on.
Activating my core muscles andactivating my hip flexors, I
instead went the opposite wayand tried to lengthen my
hamstrings.
And that's why I started toexacerbate my problem rather
than fixing it at the source.
You just mentioned earlier thatyou do a standard kind of
(09:38):
flexibility or mobility check.
I don't remember which one youuse.
But by having someone lie ontheir back and then bring the
leg up as far as they can.
And so a lot of people, whenthey do that test or checking
for hamstring flexibility, whatyou really want to be doing is
checking for how far can thisperson contract?
Like how far are the hip flexorsable to bring that leg up?
(10:02):
And that's what I should havebeen doing.
So when you talk about muscleactivation, when I was bending
forward before and could barelyget my hands past my knees,
that's because It wasn't becausethat I wasn't strong in my core
or in my quads.
I had enormous quads.
I used to snowshoe for 50 miles.
So I have like very strong legs,but neurologically that
(10:26):
neuromuscular connection wasn'thappening.
So what muscle activation isstarting to activate that
neuromuscular connection so thatwhen the body like needs to
contract those muscles, when theneuro what When the brain is
like sending messages to thosemuscles, like contract, they
start working properly.
So muscle activation isbasically rejigging like this
(10:49):
telephone line.
I sometimes refer to it like atelephone line between the brain
and the muscles, and sometimesit's a little weak.
And so muscle activation is away to re.
Reintegrate that communicationline so that they start working
properly when it's not workingproperly, the byproduct is
muscle tightness.
And I, that's like the big, oneof the big takeaways that I
(11:11):
would impress upon people, likewhen you're tight in your body,
know that there's somethingthat's not communicating
properly.
And so then the goal should be,okay, let's improve the
communication system.
When we stretch.
We do the exact opposite.
We actually debilitate thatcommunication system even more.
(11:31):
Yeah, I there's a lot of greatpoints that I can grab from what
you just said.
1 is something that I call likeadverse neural tension.
So you may be testing forhamstring length, but
realistically, you're alsolooking for how everything is
connected from like the head,the brain, all the way down the
spinal canal, which is yourcentral nervous system and how
(11:54):
if there's certain brain inputs,like again, you were talking
about how your body feels.
It feels like a threat to gofurther is to relieve those
threats through again, likemuscle activation, or if you can
help people to think more alongthe lines of if you can get the
body stronger in a certain way.
(12:14):
So there's more like thephysical side of things is.
getting the body stronger,getting the hamstrings to
actually contract and to shortenrather than continue to lengthen
something.
I'm sure you've heard of this.
Maybe our viewers haven't, butthere's sarcomeres, there's
contractile motor units, right?
So you have these sarcomeresthat are cross links.
And when you contract a muscle,they shorten.
(12:36):
However, if you're just.
doing what Aaron was doing,which was just bending forward,
expecting good results.
You're essentially justlengthening those sarcomeres.
And if you continue to lengthenthem, then you actually with
excessive lengthening, youactually render the muscle
weaker.
And I'm sure you've had peoplethat have come to you and all
they stretch is their hamstringsor, like they say Oh, my hip
(12:58):
flexors are so dang tight.
That's another topic where youstretch your hip flexors, which
attaches to the transverseprocesses of your lumbar spine.
And all of a sudden you start tobuild more low back pain.
You start to build more issuesdown the road.
And I'm sure you're just, and Ihad no stability in my lower
back.
Like I've had, I actually had afew health Experts, wellness
(13:20):
experts, movement specialiststell me, Aaron, your glutes
aren't working, your psoas isn'tworking.
We need to get those two thingsworking.
And one of the things that kindof shocked me as I got into
muscle activation is there'slike a few, I call them the
truths or the facts.
In movement, which I don't knowwhy, but a lot of people in the
(13:44):
movement world just throw thisout and just completely ignore
it.
So muscles move bones andstabilize joints.
And in order to do that, theyhave to contract, they have to
be able to.
So muscles don't move bonesnecessarily by lengthening.
They move them by shortening,the old lever pulley and lever
(14:05):
system.
And I find that reallyfascinating.
And so you mentioned this beforeThe differences between mobility
and flexibility.
And what Greg always says iscultivate instead of
flexibility.
Like when you have flexibility,you're, you are always open and
vulnerable to injury, stabilityalways leads to sorry.
(14:27):
Flexibility always leads toinstability, but when we have
mobility, we, sorry, when wehave stability, we have all the
mobility that we want.
And so from a, from a.
M.
A.
T.
Standpoint.
Our definition of healthymobility is a muscle that can
contract and contract on demand.
(14:48):
That's the barometer that weset.
And so that's part of thetraining that I do or have done
with Greg is that we're able totest a muscles force output.
And that muscle should be ableto work.
It should be able to contractand contract, on demand.
And it's fascinating to me tosee the sort of before and
(15:11):
afterwards of when like you geta muscle, you get it strong
muscle strong.
And this was, by the way, thebig light bulb moment when
somebody did this to me.
And this is what turned me on toMAT is they got my hip flexor
strong.
They then stretched my.
stretch the hamstring and thenthey came back and retested it.
(15:33):
And it like, not only was itweak, it was weaker than when we
started the process in the firstplace.
Like it was weaker than it wasbefore.
We got it like at a hundredpercent.
And.
That was like the big ahamoment.
It was like, I couldn't find themuscle.
It was like, you're telling meto hold it.
And I just couldn't hold it.
(15:53):
And that blew my mind.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a great party trick to doon people that are like, Oh, but
flex it or stretching helps mebe stronger.
And I'm like, okay, let's checkthat out.
No it's pretty insane how,there, there was something
called that I use, which is it'ssimilar to like muscle
activation.
(16:14):
It's autogenic and reciprocalinhibition.
So autogenic inhibition is whereyou contract.
the muscle you contract themuscle of interest.
So if I want to lengthen or geteven just get rid of the
perception of hamstringtightness, I want to contract
the hamstring.
So I want to go into hipextension, which is kicking the
leg backwards.
Or maybe I contract my I bend myknee under high amounts of load,
(16:36):
you get the hamstring stronger.
And then all of a sudden,Recheck them and they generally,
they feel more stable.
They just feel like maybe lesspain.
Reciprocal inhibition is whereif you want to lengthen, not
necessarily lengthen thehamstrings, but even get the
hamstrings to feel better, youwant to contract your hip
flexors, which is the completeopposite of your hamstrings, and
that's going to allow you to,that's a nice part of your trick
to contract the crazy out of thehip flexors and then you'll see
(16:58):
that they can actually bendforward further.
And also you're giving a littlebit more stability to the spine.
I love how you became moreaware, and bringing light to the
fact that there is a lot ofpeople that practice yoga, but
in a way that I think is.
Not as meaningful or effectivefor the clients and you found
like an avenue where, it reallyyields results.
I I believe you when you say Ican get results in a day.
(17:21):
I've done that before to giventhe fact that sometimes they
have to think completelyopposite of the way that they
have been perceiving things,which is just.
Stretch stretch, or staticstretches all day.
How, my question to you is like,how do you feel that how do you
feel about the word stiffness?
I think this is a topic fordebate, like tendon stiffness.
Is this something where, whenyou talk about stiffness, is it
(17:43):
always perceived, In thenegative light, do you perceive
that certain stiffness is goodand bad and what's your thoughts
on that?
When I hear the word stiffness,let me know if you're referring
to something else.
I hear tightness, like muscletightness, and so the way that I
interpret stiffness or tightnessis again, it's a protective
(18:04):
mechanism.
The body is literally freezingup.
And the analogy that Greg oftenuses is imagine if you're
walking along, especially I usedto live in Vancouver and when
the first cold snap happens,you're step out in the morning
and you slip a little bit, youstep out on a little bit of ice.
(18:24):
What does your body do?
It immediately freezes up.
It tightens up.
And so our neurologically, whenwe.
Sense instability when we sensesomething bad is going to
happen.
We just tighten up, we freezeup.
And I can relate that to my ownjourney because I'll wake up
sometimes and my back will bestiff and I'll be like, what on
(18:47):
earth is going on?
And that's telling me.
That something isn't workingneurologically.
And because I've, I ended up inthe hospital, one of the reasons
why is I have disc issues in mylower back, herniated discs.
And so a lot of the messagingsystem between my central
nervous system and the musclesis not happening.
(19:07):
That gamma, I'm going to geekout, gamma motor neuron co
activation is not happening.
And so that's telling me I gotto address this issue.
Before it becomes like a bigproblem, I feel like the two
check engine lights in the bodythere's a couple.
If you're talking to Greg, hewould say just pain is like the
(19:28):
serious check engine light.
Something is happening.
Something is wrong for me.
I also put muscle tightness inthere because if I'm reaching up
or this happens to me a lot,cause I've had serious neck
issues, I'll turn my head oneway.
And then all of a sudden, likeit all kink up, like you, you'll
feel like a kink and you'relike, Oh, something needs to be
(19:49):
worked out here.
And then I would proceed to juststretch the hell out of my neck
to get rid of that kink.
But that's actually the wrongthing to do.
The best thing to do is ifthere's a kink there, That's
telling me there's some muscles,my right side rotators.
If I'm, if it's going on theright side, my right side
rotators and my neck are notworking properly.
And so that kink is telling me,Hey, it doesn't feel safe to go
(20:12):
past this point.
There's it's my body telling methere's a protective mechanism.
You mentioned something abouttendons and I don't know if you
were going down the lane offascia and I know that's a huge
buzzword right now with, Oh, thefascia needs to be stretched
out.
I'm not on board with that atall.
(20:33):
I think it's, first of all, Ithink it's really crazy to see
if you can lengthen yourconnective tissue.
If your connective tissue istightening up.
That's not necessarily a badthing per se, but second of all,
if it's like locked in, is itreally the connective tissue
that's locked up or is it themuscles that are locked up
(20:55):
either way?
That tightness is telling youagain.
There is something that's notworking properly.
So we need to get like themuscles working.
So if you've got stiff knees perse, that stiffness is going to
be related to the, the kneeextensors may not be working
properly or the knee flexors arenot working properly.
(21:16):
And there's a lot of musclesdown there.
Also, just since I brought upthe knees, Is it really to do
with those muscles or is it likethe hip flexors and hip
extensors that aren't workingproperly?
I have filmed in my own sort ofjourney and then working with
people that I would comfortablysay 60 to 70 percent of knee
issues can be traced back to theglutes, not doing their job
(21:40):
properly.
And of course there's a lot ofother.
Areas that could be contributingto it.
Are your pronators and your feetworking your supinators and your
feet not working?
So it's, that's my feelingsabout stiffness.
Again, it's just a protectivemechanism.
Yeah.
The last point that you hit onis something that I call
regional interdependence.
So just cause the knee is wonkyand it's painful physical
(22:05):
therapists back in the day wouldjust say.
Move the decap around and thinkOh, I'm doing my job.
That's what I'm supposed to do,but they're not checking out
what's going on at the ankle andfoot.
They're not checking out what'sgoing on at the hip.
So it's it's something thathopefully has been a topic
where, nowadays peopleunderstand that.
Yeah, good quad and hamstringstrength is part of the equation
(22:25):
to help with knee pain.
But then you have to look atwhat the glutes are doing and
seeing if it's controlling whatthe femur is doing in space.
The, I was visiting my movementspecialists.
I have a, there's a, in Dallas,there's a great place called the
move project, but I wascomplaining to him.
I, he was asking me if there wasany issues and they do all my
MAT in there as well, but I wassaying that my left side.
(22:50):
Protractor protraction of myshoulder.
My scapula wasn't workingproperly as well as my right
side.
And he traced it right down tothe supinators in my right foot,
not working.
And I was like, it blew my mind.
Cause he could actually show melike, he's yeah, it's like
happening here.
And so instead of focusing onwhat's going on.
(23:11):
Going on in my shoulder andtrying to improve the
protraction.
It's I've got to deal withwhat's going on my foot first.
The whole body is extremelyinterconnected.
They, there was one point thatyou hit on around the body is in
a protection phase, right?
It's stuck in a fight or flightor stuck in a place where it's
(23:32):
fearing movement or it feelsfragile.
So the body starts to freeze.
When it comes to let's say likeisometrics, right?
So do muscle activation is, I'msure it's like you're pushing
against certain amounts ofresistance.
They're trying to overcome that.
And then it starts to create acertain sense of lengthening and
perceived less pain.
So how do you relate, usingforms of isometrics in order to
(23:56):
facilitate.
Greater degrees of movement, andhaving them feel like, after
working with Yogi Aaron, I canmove more freely.
Yeah, sure.
So the two things I, two thingsto say about that one is you
were talking about this earlier.
So if you want to improvehamstring mobility, let's just
say, or hamstring flexibility,where I would approach it from
(24:17):
is improving the hip flexorsability to contract properly.
For me, the hamstring tightnessis more of a symptom of The
agonist muscles not workingproperly.
And so that's where I would comeinto it.
I would work on improving thehip flexor mobility.
And so just a simple way to dothat would be to raise the leg
(24:40):
up as high as you can.
So doing it dynamically, that'sactually, by the way, One of my
favorite I call it kind ofgeneral hacks or just general
overall movements because ithits so many muscles all at
once, but just lying on yourback and raising your leg up as
high as you can, and thencreating your own resistance
just by pulling the leg, that'sgoing to create some isometric
(25:03):
movement or sorry, isometriccontraction.
And that will start to engageall of that.
The sort of magic number.
There's a couple of magicnumbers, but one is less is
more.
So we're not going for broke.
It's not weight training.
We're not trying to see how muchwe can bench or how much we can
squat.
(25:24):
We're just trying toneurologically reconnect the
central nervous system to themuscles and improve that
communication line.
So sometimes if we.
add too much force.
If we just like, if we're justtrying to go for broke, we could
actually cause more stress,which is going to then in turn
debilitate the muscle function.
(25:44):
So that's really an importantthing.
We're not trying to add load perse.
We're just using our body tocreate this and using gravity as
well.
And then the other magic numberis six seconds, times.
So if I'm doing that movement onmy own, I'll bring the leg up as
high as I can and hold it therewhile intentionally pulling the
(26:06):
light closer to me for sixseconds.
And then I'll slowly lower thelight back down and then just
repeat that six times.
So six seconds, six times.
One of the things that, justleave with people and you
probably work a lot with thisyourself is just really slowing
down movement.
As we slow down movement, westart to strengthen.
(26:27):
The slow twitch muscle fibers,which is the domain that we're
talking about.
When we talk about building morestability is strengthening those
slow twitch muscle fibers,constantly see people in the
gym.
And this is why you and I needto get our messaging out there.
Cause there's so much badtraining going on.
I see gym teachers or gyminstructors like doing warmups
(26:50):
with people.
You see this like when you arestanding on one leg, maybe
you're supporting yourself andyou just.
Kick the leg up as high as youcan, as fast as you can.
And it's doing absolutelynothing.
The way to do it would be toslow it down.
And then that way we can startto build those slow twitch
muscle fibers.
So that's where we're workingon.
(27:10):
Yeah.
You're, you hit around the nosewhere like muscles and tendons
respond to also speed.
So sometimes velocity dependent,very ballistic movements can
create more spasticity, whichthen creates more of a
perception of tightness.
But yeah I agree that sometimeslike it's, I always say this
term or this phrase, which it'sthe dosage that makes the
(27:30):
poison.
So it's if I told you like,you're going to die in five
days, but if you take this heartmedication three times a day for
seven days, you'll live.
Okay great.
What do you think you're goingto do?
You're going to do exactly as Isay, three times a day for seven
days straight in order to live.
But, but if you're like I'm justgoing to go about trying to do
more than you're going to do youtake the medication seven, then
(27:52):
you're overdosing and you maycreate and perpetuate it.
More symptoms, more tightnessor, things might not go your
way.
So I like the fact that, yeah,we, we want to start off with
body weight movements, muscleactivation, things that feel to
the brain, that things arewithin your control, but just
again, the person that createdMAT.
He works with the Broncos.
(28:12):
So clearly, there's going to besome MIT, then there's going to
slowly progressively overloadthe body with training, but you
have to start again, you can'tskip from first grade to eighth
grade.
You got to start with thebasics, get the body to perceive
less tightness and a betterneurological input.
Then you can start to add loadto the system.
One of the things that Greg saysconstantly, and this is burned
(28:34):
into my brain now, is if youstart from a weakened place
neurologically, meaning that themuscles are not responding
neurologically and then you addload.
You're going to make yourselfmuch weaker.
You're going to come out muchweaker, which is why we see so
many people that get intobodybuilding, have serious
(28:54):
shoulder issues and otherissues.
They're putting muscle on, butthey're not like neurologically
their muscles are weak.
But one of the things that Gregsays, if you start from a strong
place, neurologically, meaningthat muscle is connecting and
then we gradually start to addload to it, we're going to.
actually get a lot stronger.
So a lot of my workouts, likeI'm a huge advocate of doing
(29:18):
strength training, hugeadvocate.
But I'm also a huge advocate ofmaking sure that you do your
proper isometrics and slowlytake that time to build it up.
And so I'm a yoga person.
So when I say Connect it at anunconscious level at the level
of the autonomic nervous system,but also consciously do it.
(29:38):
So if I'm warming up my biceps,like there's yes, I'm bringing
it there and I'm holding it for6 seconds, 6 times, but I'm also
feeling it.
And sometimes I'll even put myother hand on it.
So I'm, There's a tactileproprioception going on as well
as an unconscious one.
And so I think all of it isgood.
(29:58):
One of the best pieces of advicethat was ever given when I
started working out, I think itwas like 16 or 15 at the time.
But I remember the guy saying,use really small amounts of
weight.
And do it really slowly and dolots of reps on the first round.
And that will start to preparethe muscle.
And it's something that I asalways stuck with me, but then I
(30:20):
lost it.
But as I've gotten more intomuscle activation, realizing
that was really the advice was,Just doing something small
amount first, and then buildingup that, that neuromuscular
connection will then help yourworkouts later on.
And that was like the best pieceof advice I can give to anybody
(30:41):
when you're working out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm going to, I'm going to, I'mgoing to test you a little bit
because I'm sure that you seeagain like how I seen, like you
see people across the spectrumfrom women that are genetically
very hyper mobile.
And they really need thatstability.
And then you have people like inthe NFL where things actually
feel physically tight, you testthem out and it's they really
(31:03):
can't even get there.
So I'm sure across the spectrum.
What do you think about, what doyou think about higher level
athletes, right?
Higher level athletes that tendto put their body through a lot
of strain and a lot of eccentricoutput runners that are or
sprinters that, they, thisperceived tightness.
Do you still employ the same M.
(31:26):
A.
T.
techniques that you would for aperson that again, it's like
more on the genetically hypermobile side or does your or does
the M.
A.
T.
and some of the variables.
The protocols is that somewhatvery.
Between those two types ofarchetypes.
Not necessarily again, tightnessis just the protective mechanism
with high functioning athletes,they're very good at hiding
(31:50):
their, let's call themdisabilities for now.
Their weaknesses.
They're very good at it.
They're whole as a whole entiresystem, high functioning
athletes.
Are really strong and they ifone little system isn't working
properly, there are othersystems will start to pick it
up.
The problem starts to becomeeventually everything is going
(32:14):
to start shutting down, the guysthat are the muscles that are
doing the compensating arefinally going to tap out the
reasons why from a, from ourperspective, muscle stop working
is due to stress, trauma, andoveruse.
Those are the big ones.
And of course there's a coupleof others, but those are really
the big ones at the top of thelist.
(32:35):
And so if you just overuse asystem, it's going to break down
eventually.
And that's why we see like thesehigh functioning athletes, all
of a sudden get rotator cuffsurgery because their shoulders
are a mess or knee surgery orsomething like that.
And.
I'm going to speak as a yogaperson.
(32:56):
One of the, I call it anepidemic of yoga.
People are so fascinated bygymnasts, like they look at
gymnasts and they go, I need todo what those gymnasts do to a
large degree.
But if you look at gymnasts,most high functioning gymnasts.
By 22, 23, 25, look at SimoneBiles, 26 years old, tapping out
(33:21):
and there's a 93 with gymnastswho are high performing.
93% of them need some sort ofsurgical intervention.
So I don't think that we need tolook to those kind of people
necessarily as the end goal.
To shoot towards that the, a lotof these high functioning
athletes are not highfunctioning past a certain age.
(33:45):
And I think that's something toreally glean.
I, myself at this moment, as I'mspeaking to you, I'm turning 53
in two months.
And.
I don't know that I ever reallyconsidered having a functional
body and the, in theramifications of what that
really meant until I ended up inthe hospital at around 45 with
(34:08):
the.
Orthopedic surgeon saying, Hey,we might need to do a spinal
fusion.
I'm way too young to have this.
Come on.
And so a big part of what I tryto really leave with people is
instead of trying to shoottowards looking a certain way or
being able to touch your toes.
Or whatever it is in yourmindset, I want you to have a
(34:33):
functional body enough that youcan get in and out of your car
with ease that when you'redriving, you can look over your
right shoulder with no problemsor without the fear of creaking
your neck.
Like I know so many people whenthey get to be a certain age and
it's different for a lot ofpeople, but it's usually around
somewhere between 45 and 60.
(34:55):
That a severe fear, literally apalpable fear kicks into your
daily life where you're like, Ohmy God, I got to be careful or
I'm going to hurt myself.
And that's not a great way tolive.
And so my goal is to remove thatfear just by cultivating more
stability and the stabilitybrings more mobility and freedom
(35:20):
in movement.
Yeah.
So many good points.
The first one that I want tojust reiterate is like you, we
both, I think, focus more onlike being functional and being
able, it's more important to beable to pick up your child,
which is a very meaningful taskand have the mobility to do so
versus strictly like making it agoal of yours to touch your
toes.
(35:40):
Yeah.
One is one is just much morepurposeful.
And one is just like aflexibility goal.
But a lot of people are still inthe mindset of if I Improve my
flexibility.
If I can touch my toes, I'm, Iwas going to say all my dreams
will come true, but oh yeah,everything will feel so much
better.
I will be able to like functionmore.
I think it's just better toagain be more, more stable and
more proficient, stronger, moreresilient as you get older.
(36:02):
And that is about throughtechniques such as MAT.
Being on a good strengthprogram.
I was going to hit a little biton you, you said it managing
your stress because there'sphysical stress, but there's
also psychological and emotionalstress that perpetuates
tightness as well.
So yeah what, how do you goabout some of those people too?
Are, I'm sure you have seenpeople that yes they respond to
(36:22):
MAT, but then sometimes we haveto sometimes go beyond that,
right?
There's the central nervoussystem.
The brain is in a severe stockfight or flight where.
They're in abusive relationship,or they have PTSD.
And, people don't really takeinto account the fact that there
is indeed a mind body connectionwhen the body goes through so
much emotional trauma.
(36:43):
And there's a certain amount ofthat they can tolerate is that
those emotions eventually spillover into physical stress and
they start to perpetuate this.
This discomfort that somesometimes admittedly, so it
requires a multidisciplinaryteam, or we have to take into
account the emotional side ofthings.
Do you mind maybe seeing do you,are you somebody that maybe you
(37:07):
refer out in those instances?
Do you collaborate with peoplethat, they literally tell you
These are some of the traumasthat I've been through.
Somebody passed away or otherthings.
How do you go about with thosetypes of clients?
I think so.
I think you and I can bothobjectively agree that stress
there, there's not enoughemphasis in our world, in our,
(37:31):
the wellness world, the movementworld, about the detriments of
stress.
I don't think even the medicalprofession world really grasp
the detriments of stress and howto get rid of stress, like all
the causes of stress, and thenof course we look at food.
Sleep quality.
And then of course, what I'mtalking about is stress.
(37:54):
One of the words that we usesometimes is unresolved stress
or sorry, I didn't say thatcorrectly, unresolved
inflammation.
And of course, for stressthat's.
Causing more unresolvedinflammation that's basically
stuck in different areas.
And that's why I ended up in thehospital cause I had so much
unresolved inflammation in mylower back.
(38:16):
It was stuck in an inflammatoryprocess.
I, so to answer your question,like when it comes to emotional
stuff, I think that the two arevery interlinked personally.
This is just my personal opinionnow where, If we have stress,
take someone that's got sciaticaissues.
(38:37):
And by the way, I can speak frompersonal experience.
So both looking at people andalso from my own experiences,
like if I've got sciatica,that's going to affect me in how
I'm responding to people in mylife and how I'm responding to
certain events.
And do I handle those eventswith ease and comfort or ease
(39:01):
and continuity?
Or am I like aggressive withthem, which then is going to
exacerbate more problems.
So I think that addressing itall, like always, I'm a yoga
person.
Go for broke, tackle it on allfronts.
And but I do see an enormousshift in people moving from a
(39:23):
fight or flight emotionally torest and digest.
When I get people doing muscleactivation stuff, it's quite
profound.
And one of the reasons why Iwould say that's happening is I
use this word before unresolvedinflammation that a lot of us
are carrying around thisinflammation.
(39:44):
And when we get the musclesworking properly, remember
muscles, what's connected to themuscular system?
The lymphatic system.
What is the lymphatic system do?
Moves unresolved stress.
I'm sorry, unresolvedinflammation.
And so as soon as we getpeople's muscular systems
working properly and pumpingproperly The change in them,
(40:10):
moving from that fight or flightto rest and digest is quite
profound and quite rapid.
And to answer your question,yes, I do often refer out like
there's sometimes I'm like, haveyou ever considered therapy?
But I also want to bring in theyoga techniques of relaxation,
which doesn't get enough press.
(40:31):
I think in the world as whole, alot of people think of yoga as
going, turning, going to a placewhere the temperature is 110
degrees, banging out ofpractice, sweating a lot.
We don't really think of yoga asa place of relaxation, but
relaxation is Paramount in thepractice of yoga.
So I often find, and there'sbeen a lot of research done on
(40:54):
people, for example, with PTSDand the benefits of yoga nidra
and how it can help people withPTSD it's quite profound.
There's been a lot of studiesdone on that.
So absolutely.
Multi pronged approach.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm glad that we both canunderstand, like, where's our
(41:14):
scopes of expertise and whenthey need to refer out when
there needs to be somecollaboration.
And yeah, lymphatic drainage is,or lymphatic system is often
very overlooked.
And, one of my sayings,especially because I've done a
lot of postoperative care iswhat's one of the best things to
improve lymphatic drainage?
It's actually muscle activationbecause the muscles literally.
The lymph.
(41:34):
The lymph flows through themuscles.
So when you're contractingmuscles, the stronger your calve
is, there's less likely, there'sless, a less likelihood of a
deep vein thrombosis in yourleg.
So getting muscles to activatewill improve your lymphatic
drainage and will clear out anysort of inflammation in the
body.
I'll tell you a story, and Ithink hopefully this can maybe
(41:54):
help you, but even help ouraudience there.
There was a client of mine.
She had 25 plus years of backpain, but it wasn't because of
necessarily inflammatorymarkers, although there probably
was some present, it was more sobecause of the authority figure.
So it's something that I thinkreally helps people with.
Unresolved tightness isassurance, right?
(42:16):
So when people go to you it'smore than just muscle
activation.
They're coming to you with asense of confidence.
Hey, this person can help me.
If they seen your testimonials,they gain assurance from it.
And this person got no assurancefor 25 plus years.
A doctor said.
Girl you have a herniated disc.
You should keep your core tightat all times.
You should stop bending.
And I'm sure you've heard thatbefore, stop bending and
(42:37):
twisting.
And she was like you know what,I'm going to stop bending and
twisting and her back was hardas a rock when I first met her.
And when she bent forward, therewas so much fight or flight.
She literally just bent forward10 degrees and she's there's the
pain.
And I'm like that's notpossible.
But a lot of neurologicaltightness and protective
mechanisms were going on.
So we essentially, I gave herassurance that, Hey, tire shoe
(43:01):
right now.
Pick up this pen, see whathappens.
I guarantee like my assurances,if you just do it, nothing's
going to happen.
And she was just assured try tobend sitting down and twist, see
what happens.
And she's she was reallyfearful, but eventually she
gained the bravery, theconfidence to do it.
And all of a sudden, 25 plusyears of neurological tightness
(43:22):
gradually went away.
And again, it's because ofassurance and maybe a little bit
of accountability, but theassurance piece just saying your
body is stuck in a fight orflight if you do this, I promise
you.
You'll be fine.
And I think that's what peoplelook towards us as leaders and
leaders of movement in ourindustry is there's always a
psychosocial component to it.
And there are a lot of doctorsthat are purely bioanatomical,
(43:46):
meaning that, they really scarethe shit out of you saying you
have a herniated disc and stopbending twisting.
But yeah, I think that's whymuscle activation works too,
because It really does give somesort of like really positive
neurological input that allowsthem to move more freely.
So not sure if you have heardstories of that and but I
hopefully that can help,somebody that maybe has a
(44:08):
mixture of like psychosocialissues, but also has some sort
of like on, unresolvedinflammation.
Or some built up tension thatseemingly feels unresolved.
Yeah, absolutely.
I people, one of the biggestcomments I think that I get from
people that do this work eitherfrom me working on them doing
(44:28):
muscle activation technique orusing the Yama methods of
isometrics that They constantlywill say things like I've never
felt so much in my body, like athome in my body.
And so a lot of this work justgets people into their bodies
and and definitely, absolutely.
There is a huge psychologicalcomponent I'm sure going on as
(44:51):
well.
The stories that we tellourselves and the belief systems
that we have about our body Ithink for example, a lot of men
just say I'm tight because I'm aguy my business partner Adam has
really gotten into bodybuildingand range of motion decreases.
And he's saying to me like mymuscles are I'm becoming muscle
(45:14):
bound.
And that's another story that alot of bodybuilders end up
telling themselves, notrealizing that it's just,
they're building up a lot ofunresolved inflammation.
Working on it, many prongapproach is always a great way.
And checking in with our storiesabout ourselves.
Yeah, I did a dissertation or aresearch study before I left PT
(45:34):
school about positive versusnegative coping.
So you alluded to it where whenyou have a certain belief about
yourself, a certain negativebelief is going to reflect a
negative action.
So you're going to potentially.
Perseverate, feel more helpless.
You might stress out more.
You might start to more so curlup into a ball and just lie down
(45:54):
and hopefully the pain goes awayversus do something more
proactive, like muscleactivation.
So it's, it is really about howcan you replace and start to
identify as a person that doessomething more proactive and
maybe doesn't seek out themedication and the manual
treatments first.
And instead maybe start toempower yourself through muscle
activation, strength training.
And which, which is going toyield longer term results and
(46:16):
more sustainable relief frompain as well.
With that being said, I feellike we can, me and you can
probably talk for days aboutmany different topics.
We probably didn't hit oneverything that we wanted to,
just for time purposes, isthere.
Is there maybe one or two thingsthat you want to leave our
audience with that maybe caneither one hit home, like a good
fact that like really can hithome with them or maybe even
compel them to take some actionfrom here.
(46:38):
Yeah, sure.
Compel them to action when youwere just talking.
One of the things that wentthrough my mind was a study that
Greg was referring to with theMayo Clinic.
And.
That they are starting to, theinformation that's starting to
come out now is saying that lossof muscle function is the
greatest contributor to aging.
(47:00):
Therefore, if you want to, thatgoes ahead of heart disease and
cholesterol and all of theseother things that a
deterioration of musclefunction.
And so if you guys want to stayyoung.
The key is improving musclefunction and check out, the work
(47:20):
that we're doing, because that'sthe greatest thing that you can
do to turn back the clock.
And if you look at old people,older people that look old,
especially what do youconstantly see?
Like limitation and range ofmotion, like barely able to
move.
And so if you, if we want toturn back the clock.
Improve muscle function.
(47:40):
And I just want to say if peoplewant to check out the work that
I'm doing, I have a free giftfor people that go to my
website, yogi iron dot com, andit's a great way for people.
But I, there's a few.
Things that I try and endeavorto do other than making people
pain free.
But one is just teaching peopleabout their bodies and like
where their hip flexors, wherethe back extensors, what are the
(48:04):
key things that we can do to getthem activated?
So there's a free seven dayseries on there.
People can access if they wantto learn more.
Beautiful.
Thank you so much.
And I will definitely leave thatin the description.
A great way to end this podcastis about literally the role of
muscle and its function.
Muscle will help with lymphaticdrainage.
(48:25):
It'll help with longevity.
If you ever get a certaindisease, what's going to help
You survive potentially thatfatal disease is still muscle
function and muscle mass.
So that's why I, that's why evenin my own, not in my own
practice, but for my own fitnessendeavors, it, bodybuilding,
strength training, running forcardiovascular purposes, but
also I like maintaining mymobility through, I'm sure that
(48:48):
there's some carryovers, somecertain muscle activation stuff
that I do for myself.
So with that being said, yeah,definitely check out yogiaron.
com.
I'll link that into thedescription down below.
And I want to thank you so much,Aaron, for providing your input,
your expertise.
Yeah, just, everything that youstand for, it's amazing.
And I know that you're inspiringa lot of people to change their
(49:09):
lives and to change the way thatthey feel.
So with that being said Aaron ifyou have anything else you want
to say, definitely like minehere, but I feel like we hit on
so many great notes and I'm surethat a lot of people get some
value from this.
Just thank you so much forhaving me on and continuing this
conversation.
Yeah, for sure.
So yeah, that's what I got forthe one body one life podcast
today.
(49:30):
If you have any feedback fromyou and Aaron.
I'll link again, Aaron's contactand his website down below.
But also if you want to supportus, leave a five star review and
and also give us some feedbackand that will allow me and also
Aaron's message to get across tomore people.
So I'll leave it.
I'll leave everyone here withthe quote that I always leave
people with.
You only have one body, onelife, make every action you take
(49:51):
be one that makes you a betterversion of you.
Take care.
And thanks so much, Aaron.
Appreciate you.
Thank you.
All right.
So welcome to the Won Body WonLife Podcast.
Hi, I'm your host, Dr.
Jason Won, lifestyle, physicaltherapist.
I speak to you guys, anything inregards to orthopedics chronic
pain, helping you to live ahealthier, stronger, more
resilient and fulfilling life,and I also love to bring on very
special guest, Dr.
That want to express theirexpertise and also coincide with
(00:22):
my mission to help you live ahealthier life.
And today I have a very specialguest.
His name is Yogi Aaron and hecome.
He's based out of Costa Rica.
I think he's for I think you arefrom Canada.
And I'd love to just talk withyou about this topic here, which
is why stretching may be causingmore harm than good.
(00:43):
And I know that you have yourown journey on how you went
through your own journey, butalso how you were able to
inspire other people to abide byyour philosophy.
And I'd love to walking man.
So yo Aaron, thank you so muchfor being here.
Thanks so much for having me.
And when I saw your podcast, Iknew right away that we would be
a great fit.
So we're both on a mission tohelp people live their best pain
(01:06):
free life and having been aperson who has experienced so
much chronic pain I think thegreatest tragedy is people who
are living with pain that don'tYou Have to live with pain.
Just with a few either lifestyletweaks, like when I say tweaks,
like small tweaks, like smalladjustments, and also bringing
in some intelligent movementbased exercise, they can get rid
(01:29):
of their pain sometimes like ina day.
Or two, very seldom.
Does it take me a long time toget people rid of people's pain?
I work a lot with many people,especially during a, what I call
a two week yoga immersion andalways by day six, somewhere
between day six and day eight,everybody is pain free.
(01:49):
So you asked me my own journey.
I started off teaching yoga ordoing yoga rather because I had
really tight Muscles, especiallytight hamstrings.
I was like a typical, young manwho couldn't, bending forward,
couldn't get my hands past myknees and without screaming, so
(02:12):
I thought I should stretch moreand yoga seemed to be a really
good way to do that.
And like probably most of yourlisteners, I equated yoga with
stretching.
So I got into yoga really tostretch my hamstrings shortly
after I started doing yoga.
When something happened to me,my back went out, like I tweaked
(02:34):
my back and that was the firsttime that ever had happened to
me.
It didn't happen just forclarity in a yoga was.
I bent over to pick somethingup, but that was okay, I need to
stretch more because I've gotreally tight hamstrings.
And I was told that they'repulling on my back muscles and
causing a lot of problems, whichwas about 25 percent true.
(02:59):
The remedy wasn't, but anyways,I digress.
So I got into yoga more andmore.
I became a teacher.
One of the things just as a sidenote that got me more and more
into yoga was the power ofconcentration.
As I did more yoga, a lot of mysymptoms of ADD were dissipating
and I was able to really focusmy mind.
(03:21):
And so there was like a lot ofthese.
Benefits that came up more andmore, but I always was hurting
my back and then I startedhurting other areas of my body
which I can get into if you'reinterested, but I eventually 25
years after practicing yoga anddealing with intense chronic
(03:42):
pain.
Issues that kind of would go upand down and up and down.
And I spent, can't even tell youhow much money I've spent with
acupuncturist, chiropractorsmassage therapists, even people
waving crystals over anything toget out of pain.
When you're in pain, you justwant to get rid of it.
(04:03):
And so I ended up 25 years laterin the emergency room of a
hospital with an orthopedicsurgeon telling me that I
probably would need a spinalfusion in my lower back.
And that was a real hard momentto take because I had spent the
previous, obviously 25 years.
As a quote unquote movementspecialist, telling people how
(04:24):
to move training people in theirbody.
And here I was, facing the exactsame exact thing that I was
trying to avoid.
So I, at that moment, I askedthe question what don't I know?
And that led me on this journeyof studying a systemology called
muscle activation technique.
(04:46):
It was created by a man namedGreg Roscoff, who's located out
of Denver for anybody who'sinterested.
And that right away, opened myeyes up.
The very first thing I realizedwas I don't know anything.
I felt like I didn't, I feltlike everything I knew.
That was in the yoga world wasall pseudoscience based, like
(05:08):
there was no practicalapplication.
The only thing I was concernedabout was just different hacks
to stretch more, like a lot ofwhat's taught in the yoga world
is stretching world is even alot of smoke and mirrors.
Just to be able to get into aposture or be able to stretch
(05:30):
more.
And so that's what has inspiredthis journey of bringing muscle
activation into yoga to flippingthe script on yoga instead of
stretching to make it more aboutactivation.
And it's in the activation realmthat we create more.
And in harness the power ofstability and bring stability
(05:52):
into our body.
Absolutely.
I think we're going todefinitely hit on more things.
I know we want to.
I definitely want to nerd outwith you.
Cause you even said it topreface this call that I love
the anatomy.
And I was like, dude I'm totallyfor that.
So I want to share with peopleabout, in general, like muscle
activation, especially from aphysical therapy standpoint,
(06:12):
being stronger within ranges ofmotion is what creates
stability.
I've had a lot of even yogis andyoga therapists that they were,
there, there's a lot of womenand maybe more so women, I would
say that Women tend to be moreon the hyper mobile side.
So I've had a lot of women cometo my practice and they're like,
(06:33):
man, my hamstrings and my lowback is so dang tight.
And I'm like, I stretch all thetime.
And so when you do this test,which we call like the straight
leg raise test, you lie somebodydown.
And you lift their leg up withtheir knee straight, and you can
see you can cram their knee allthe way into their nose, right?
It's okay you have pretty muchlimitless hamstring flexibility.
(06:54):
And I'm going to say the wordflexibility versus mobility, and
we can define what that means.
I was like, okay, I'm prettysure that, you're pretty dang
mobile.
And she's yeah.
I work on it a lot and I'm like,so you really believe that more
stretching is going to solveyour issues.
And she's think so.
And so when you start to getthem into stuff, like you said,
like muscle activation, youstart to add some strength to
(07:17):
the mix.
You start to teach them how likecore stability and strengthening
their hamstrings and putting adumbbell in their hand and,
lifting it up and down andgetting the hamstrings actually
contract and get more, getstronger.
Then they realize whoa, it'slike I have the same, they might
have the same amount offlexibility because they're born
with it.
But.
They feel so much better.
So I'm very excited to enlightenfurther on the topic.
(07:39):
May you define like what muscleactivation is and how it worked
for people?
Yeah, sure.
I think I just want to prefacethis though, like on, on Greg's
journey to creating muscleactivation technique it wasn't a
single line of course, isnothing ever is, but what he
started to realize is that Wasthat muscle tightness in the
(08:04):
body?
Cause he worked, he, Greg worksa lot with high functioning
athletes, especially NFL.
I hope I said that footballplayers.
And right now, like he workswith the Denver Broncos.
And, but he was asking thequestion, why are muscles tight?
What he came to realize is.
Is that they're tight from aneurological perspective, the
(08:26):
body senses instability and soit tightens up.
For example, with me and thereason why I got into yoga and
decided I should stretch isbecause I had really tight
hamstrings that could barelybend forward.
Yeah.
What was happening at aneurological level was my body
was basically saying it doesn'tfeel stable to go past this
(08:50):
point.
Tightness is telling you don'tgo past this point because
you're not going to be safe.
Or that we don't feel safe.
And when I say we, this is ofcourse happening at an autonomic
level.
Like we're not aware, likethere's not a committee like
that movie that came out withall of the feelings that have,
but so what we need to do isaddress the instability and
(09:15):
instead of me focusing on.
Activating my core muscles andactivating my hip flexors, I
instead went the opposite wayand tried to lengthen my
hamstrings.
And that's why I started toexacerbate my problem rather
than fixing it at the source.
You just mentioned earlier thatyou do a standard kind of
(09:38):
flexibility or mobility check.
I don't remember which one youuse.
But by having someone lie ontheir back and then bring the
leg up as far as they can.
And so a lot of people, whenthey do that test or checking
for hamstring flexibility, whatyou really want to be doing is
checking for how far can thisperson contract?
Like how far are the hip flexorsable to bring that leg up?
(10:02):
And that's what I should havebeen doing.
So when you talk about muscleactivation, when I was bending
forward before and could barelyget my hands past my knees,
that's because It wasn't becausethat I wasn't strong in my core
or in my quads.
I had enormous quads.
I used to snowshoe for 50 miles.
So I have like very strong legs,but neurologically that
(10:26):
neuromuscular connection wasn'thappening.
So what muscle activation isstarting to activate that
neuromuscular connection so thatwhen the body like needs to
contract those muscles, when theneuro what When the brain is
like sending messages to thosemuscles, like contract, they
start working properly.
So muscle activation isbasically rejigging like this
(10:49):
telephone line.
I sometimes refer to it like atelephone line between the brain
and the muscles, and sometimesit's a little weak.
And so muscle activation is away to re.
Reintegrate that communicationline so that they start working
properly when it's not workingproperly, the byproduct is
muscle tightness.
And I, that's like the big, oneof the big takeaways that I
(11:11):
would impress upon people, likewhen you're tight in your body,
know that there's somethingthat's not communicating
properly.
And so then the goal should be,okay, let's improve the
communication system.
When we stretch.
We do the exact opposite.
We actually debilitate thatcommunication system even more.
(11:31):
Yeah, I there's a lot of greatpoints that I can grab from what
you just said.
1 is something that I call likeadverse neural tension.
So you may be testing forhamstring length, but
realistically, you're alsolooking for how everything is
connected from like the head,the brain, all the way down the
spinal canal, which is yourcentral nervous system and how
(11:54):
if there's certain brain inputs,like again, you were talking
about how your body feels.
It feels like a threat to gofurther is to relieve those
threats through again, likemuscle activation, or if you can
help people to think more alongthe lines of if you can get the
body stronger in a certain way.
(12:14):
So there's more like thephysical side of things is.
getting the body stronger,getting the hamstrings to
actually contract and to shortenrather than continue to lengthen
something.
I'm sure you've heard of this.
Maybe our viewers haven't, butthere's sarcomeres, there's
contractile motor units, right?
So you have these sarcomeresthat are cross links.
And when you contract a muscle,they shorten.
(12:36):
However, if you're just.
doing what Aaron was doing,which was just bending forward,
expecting good results.
You're essentially justlengthening those sarcomeres.
And if you continue to lengthenthem, then you actually with
excessive lengthening, youactually render the muscle
weaker.
And I'm sure you've had peoplethat have come to you and all
they stretch is their hamstringsor, like they say Oh, my hip
(12:58):
flexors are so dang tight.
That's another topic where youstretch your hip flexors, which
attaches to the transverseprocesses of your lumbar spine.
And all of a sudden you start tobuild more low back pain.
You start to build more issuesdown the road.
And I'm sure you're just, and Ihad no stability in my lower
back.
Like I've had, I actually had afew health Experts, wellness
(13:20):
experts, movement specialiststell me, Aaron, your glutes
aren't working, your psoas isn'tworking.
We need to get those two thingsworking.
And one of the things that kindof shocked me as I got into
muscle activation is there'slike a few, I call them the
truths or the facts.
In movement, which I don't knowwhy, but a lot of people in the
(13:44):
movement world just throw thisout and just completely ignore
it.
So muscles move bones andstabilize joints.
And in order to do that, theyhave to contract, they have to
be able to.
So muscles don't move bonesnecessarily by lengthening.
They move them by shortening,the old lever pulley and lever
(14:05):
system.
And I find that reallyfascinating.
And so you mentioned this beforeThe differences between mobility
and flexibility.
And what Greg always says iscultivate instead of
flexibility.
Like when you have flexibility,you're, you are always open and
vulnerable to injury, stabilityalways leads to sorry.
(14:27):
Flexibility always leads toinstability, but when we have
mobility, we, sorry, when wehave stability, we have all the
mobility that we want.
And so from a, from a.
M.
A.
T.
Standpoint.
Our definition of healthymobility is a muscle that can
contract and contract on demand.
(14:48):
That's the barometer that weset.
And so that's part of thetraining that I do or have done
with Greg is that we're able totest a muscles force output.
And that muscle should be ableto work.
It should be able to contractand contract, on demand.
And it's fascinating to me tosee the sort of before and
(15:11):
afterwards of when like you geta muscle, you get it strong
muscle strong.
And this was, by the way, thebig light bulb moment when
somebody did this to me.
And this is what turned me on toMAT is they got my hip flexor
strong.
They then stretched my.
stretch the hamstring and thenthey came back and retested it.
(15:33):
And it like, not only was itweak, it was weaker than when we
started the process in the firstplace.
Like it was weaker than it wasbefore.
We got it like at a hundredpercent.
And.
That was like the big ahamoment.
It was like, I couldn't find themuscle.
It was like, you're telling meto hold it.
And I just couldn't hold it.
(15:53):
And that blew my mind.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a great party trick to doon people that are like, Oh, but
flex it or stretching helps mebe stronger.
And I'm like, okay, let's checkthat out.
No it's pretty insane how,there, there was something
called that I use, which is it'ssimilar to like muscle
activation.
(16:14):
It's autogenic and reciprocalinhibition.
So autogenic inhibition is whereyou contract.
the muscle you contract themuscle of interest.
So if I want to lengthen or geteven just get rid of the
perception of hamstringtightness, I want to contract
the hamstring.
So I want to go into hipextension, which is kicking the
leg backwards.
Or maybe I contract my I bend myknee under high amounts of load,
(16:36):
you get the hamstring stronger.
And then all of a sudden,Recheck them and they generally,
they feel more stable.
They just feel like maybe lesspain.
Reciprocal inhibition is whereif you want to lengthen, not
necessarily lengthen thehamstrings, but even get the
hamstrings to feel better, youwant to contract your hip
flexors, which is the completeopposite of your hamstrings, and
that's going to allow you to,that's a nice part of your trick
to contract the crazy out of thehip flexors and then you'll see
(16:58):
that they can actually bendforward further.
And also you're giving a littlebit more stability to the spine.
I love how you became moreaware, and bringing light to the
fact that there is a lot ofpeople that practice yoga, but
in a way that I think is.
Not as meaningful or effectivefor the clients and you found
like an avenue where, it reallyyields results.
I I believe you when you say Ican get results in a day.
(17:21):
I've done that before to giventhe fact that sometimes they
have to think completelyopposite of the way that they
have been perceiving things,which is just.
Stretch stretch, or staticstretches all day.
How, my question to you is like,how do you feel that how do you
feel about the word stiffness?
I think this is a topic fordebate, like tendon stiffness.
Is this something where, whenyou talk about stiffness, is it
(17:43):
always perceived, In thenegative light, do you perceive
that certain stiffness is goodand bad and what's your thoughts
on that?
When I hear the word stiffness,let me know if you're referring
to something else.
I hear tightness, like muscletightness, and so the way that I
interpret stiffness or tightnessis again, it's a protective
(18:04):
mechanism.
The body is literally freezingup.
And the analogy that Greg oftenuses is imagine if you're
walking along, especially I usedto live in Vancouver and when
the first cold snap happens,you're step out in the morning
and you slip a little bit, youstep out on a little bit of ice.
(18:24):
What does your body do?
It immediately freezes up.
It tightens up.
And so our neurologically, whenwe.
Sense instability when we sensesomething bad is going to
happen.
We just tighten up, we freezeup.
And I can relate that to my ownjourney because I'll wake up
sometimes and my back will bestiff and I'll be like, what on
(18:47):
earth is going on?
And that's telling me.
That something isn't workingneurologically.
And because I've, I ended up inthe hospital, one of the reasons
why is I have disc issues in mylower back, herniated discs.
And so a lot of the messagingsystem between my central
nervous system and the musclesis not happening.
(19:07):
That gamma, I'm going to geekout, gamma motor neuron co
activation is not happening.
And so that's telling me I gotto address this issue.
Before it becomes like a bigproblem, I feel like the two
check engine lights in the bodythere's a couple.
If you're talking to Greg, hewould say just pain is like the
(19:28):
serious check engine light.
Something is happening.
Something is wrong for me.
I also put muscle tightness inthere because if I'm reaching up
or this happens to me a lot,cause I've had serious neck
issues, I'll turn my head oneway.
And then all of a sudden, likeit all kink up, like you, you'll
feel like a kink and you'relike, Oh, something needs to be
(19:49):
worked out here.
And then I would proceed to juststretch the hell out of my neck
to get rid of that kink.
But that's actually the wrongthing to do.
The best thing to do is ifthere's a kink there, That's
telling me there's some muscles,my right side rotators.
If I'm, if it's going on theright side, my right side
rotators and my neck are notworking properly.
And so that kink is telling me,Hey, it doesn't feel safe to go
(20:12):
past this point.
There's it's my body telling methere's a protective mechanism.
You mentioned something abouttendons and I don't know if you
were going down the lane offascia and I know that's a huge
buzzword right now with, Oh, thefascia needs to be stretched
out.
I'm not on board with that atall.
(20:33):
I think it's, first of all, Ithink it's really crazy to see
if you can lengthen yourconnective tissue.
If your connective tissue istightening up.
That's not necessarily a badthing per se, but second of all,
if it's like locked in, is itreally the connective tissue
that's locked up or is it themuscles that are locked up
(20:55):
either way?
That tightness is telling youagain.
There is something that's notworking properly.
So we need to get like themuscles working.
So if you've got stiff knees perse, that stiffness is going to
be related to the, the kneeextensors may not be working
properly or the knee flexors arenot working properly.
(21:16):
And there's a lot of musclesdown there.
Also, just since I brought upthe knees, Is it really to do
with those muscles or is it likethe hip flexors and hip
extensors that aren't workingproperly?
I have filmed in my own sort ofjourney and then working with
people that I would comfortablysay 60 to 70 percent of knee
issues can be traced back to theglutes, not doing their job
(21:40):
properly.
And of course there's a lot ofother.
Areas that could be contributingto it.
Are your pronators and your feetworking your supinators and your
feet not working?
So it's, that's my feelingsabout stiffness.
Again, it's just a protectivemechanism.
Yeah.
The last point that you hit onis something that I call
regional interdependence.
So just cause the knee is wonkyand it's painful physical
(22:05):
therapists back in the day wouldjust say.
Move the decap around and thinkOh, I'm doing my job.
That's what I'm supposed to do,but they're not checking out
what's going on at the ankle andfoot.
They're not checking out what'sgoing on at the hip.
So it's it's something thathopefully has been a topic
where, nowadays peopleunderstand that.
Yeah, good quad and hamstringstrength is part of the equation
(22:25):
to help with knee pain.
But then you have to look atwhat the glutes are doing and
seeing if it's controlling whatthe femur is doing in space.
The, I was visiting my movementspecialists.
I have a, there's a, in Dallas,there's a great place called the
move project, but I wascomplaining to him.
I, he was asking me if there wasany issues and they do all my
MAT in there as well, but I wassaying that my left side.
(22:50):
Protractor protraction of myshoulder.
My scapula wasn't workingproperly as well as my right
side.
And he traced it right down tothe supinators in my right foot,
not working.
And I was like, it blew my mind.
Cause he could actually show melike, he's yeah, it's like
happening here.
And so instead of focusing onwhat's going on.
(23:11):
Going on in my shoulder andtrying to improve the
protraction.
It's I've got to deal withwhat's going on my foot first.
The whole body is extremelyinterconnected.
They, there was one point thatyou hit on around the body is in
a protection phase, right?
It's stuck in a fight or flightor stuck in a place where it's
(23:32):
fearing movement or it feelsfragile.
So the body starts to freeze.
When it comes to let's say likeisometrics, right?
So do muscle activation is, I'msure it's like you're pushing
against certain amounts ofresistance.
They're trying to overcome that.
And then it starts to create acertain sense of lengthening and
perceived less pain.
So how do you relate, usingforms of isometrics in order to
(23:56):
facilitate.
Greater degrees of movement, andhaving them feel like, after
working with Yogi Aaron, I canmove more freely.
Yeah, sure.
So the two things I, two thingsto say about that one is you
were talking about this earlier.
So if you want to improvehamstring mobility, let's just
say, or hamstring flexibility,where I would approach it from
(24:17):
is improving the hip flexorsability to contract properly.
For me, the hamstring tightnessis more of a symptom of The
agonist muscles not workingproperly.
And so that's where I would comeinto it.
I would work on improving thehip flexor mobility.
And so just a simple way to dothat would be to raise the leg
(24:40):
up as high as you can.
So doing it dynamically, that'sactually, by the way, One of my
favorite I call it kind ofgeneral hacks or just general
overall movements because ithits so many muscles all at
once, but just lying on yourback and raising your leg up as
high as you can, and thencreating your own resistance
just by pulling the leg, that'sgoing to create some isometric
(25:03):
movement or sorry, isometriccontraction.
And that will start to engageall of that.
The sort of magic number.
There's a couple of magicnumbers, but one is less is
more.
So we're not going for broke.
It's not weight training.
We're not trying to see how muchwe can bench or how much we can
squat.
(25:24):
We're just trying toneurologically reconnect the
central nervous system to themuscles and improve that
communication line.
So sometimes if we.
add too much force.
If we just like, if we're justtrying to go for broke, we could
actually cause more stress,which is going to then in turn
debilitate the muscle function.
(25:44):
So that's really an importantthing.
We're not trying to add load perse.
We're just using our body tocreate this and using gravity as
well.
And then the other magic numberis six seconds, times.
So if I'm doing that movement onmy own, I'll bring the leg up as
high as I can and hold it therewhile intentionally pulling the
(26:06):
light closer to me for sixseconds.
And then I'll slowly lower thelight back down and then just
repeat that six times.
So six seconds, six times.
One of the things that, justleave with people and you
probably work a lot with thisyourself is just really slowing
down movement.
As we slow down movement, westart to strengthen.
(26:27):
The slow twitch muscle fibers,which is the domain that we're
talking about.
When we talk about building morestability is strengthening those
slow twitch muscle fibers,constantly see people in the
gym.
And this is why you and I needto get our messaging out there.
Cause there's so much badtraining going on.
I see gym teachers or gyminstructors like doing warmups
(26:50):
with people.
You see this like when you arestanding on one leg, maybe
you're supporting yourself andyou just.
Kick the leg up as high as youcan, as fast as you can.
And it's doing absolutelynothing.
The way to do it would be toslow it down.
And then that way we can startto build those slow twitch
muscle fibers.
So that's where we're workingon.
(27:10):
Yeah.
You're, you hit around the nosewhere like muscles and tendons
respond to also speed.
So sometimes velocity dependent,very ballistic movements can
create more spasticity, whichthen creates more of a
perception of tightness.
But yeah I agree that sometimeslike it's, I always say this
term or this phrase, which it'sthe dosage that makes the
(27:30):
poison.
So it's if I told you like,you're going to die in five
days, but if you take this heartmedication three times a day for
seven days, you'll live.
Okay great.
What do you think you're goingto do?
You're going to do exactly as Isay, three times a day for seven
days straight in order to live.
But, but if you're like I'm justgoing to go about trying to do
more than you're going to do youtake the medication seven, then
(27:52):
you're overdosing and you maycreate and perpetuate it.
More symptoms, more tightnessor, things might not go your
way.
So I like the fact that, yeah,we, we want to start off with
body weight movements, muscleactivation, things that feel to
the brain, that things arewithin your control, but just
again, the person that createdMAT.
He works with the Broncos.
(28:12):
So clearly, there's going to besome MIT, then there's going to
slowly progressively overloadthe body with training, but you
have to start again, you can'tskip from first grade to eighth
grade.
You got to start with thebasics, get the body to perceive
less tightness and a betterneurological input.
Then you can start to add loadto the system.
One of the things that Greg saysconstantly, and this is burned
(28:34):
into my brain now, is if youstart from a weakened place
neurologically, meaning that themuscles are not responding
neurologically and then you addload.
You're going to make yourselfmuch weaker.
You're going to come out muchweaker, which is why we see so
many people that get intobodybuilding, have serious
(28:54):
shoulder issues and otherissues.
They're putting muscle on, butthey're not like neurologically
their muscles are weak.
But one of the things that Gregsays, if you start from a strong
place, neurologically, meaningthat muscle is connecting and
then we gradually start to addload to it, we're going to.
actually get a lot stronger.
So a lot of my workouts, likeI'm a huge advocate of doing
(29:18):
strength training, hugeadvocate.
But I'm also a huge advocate ofmaking sure that you do your
proper isometrics and slowlytake that time to build it up.
And so I'm a yoga person.
So when I say Connect it at anunconscious level at the level
of the autonomic nervous system,but also consciously do it.
(29:38):
So if I'm warming up my biceps,like there's yes, I'm bringing
it there and I'm holding it for6 seconds, 6 times, but I'm also
feeling it.
And sometimes I'll even put myother hand on it.
So I'm, There's a tactileproprioception going on as well
as an unconscious one.
And so I think all of it isgood.
(29:58):
One of the best pieces of advicethat was ever given when I
started working out, I think itwas like 16 or 15 at the time.
But I remember the guy saying,use really small amounts of
weight.
And do it really slowly and dolots of reps on the first round.
And that will start to preparethe muscle.
And it's something that I asalways stuck with me, but then I
(30:20):
lost it.
But as I've gotten more intomuscle activation, realizing
that was really the advice was,Just doing something small
amount first, and then buildingup that, that neuromuscular
connection will then help yourworkouts later on.
And that was like the best pieceof advice I can give to anybody
(30:41):
when you're working out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm going to, I'm going to, I'mgoing to test you a little bit
because I'm sure that you seeagain like how I seen, like you
see people across the spectrumfrom women that are genetically
very hyper mobile.
And they really need thatstability.
And then you have people like inthe NFL where things actually
feel physically tight, you testthem out and it's they really
(31:03):
can't even get there.
So I'm sure across the spectrum.
What do you think about, what doyou think about higher level
athletes, right?
Higher level athletes that tendto put their body through a lot
of strain and a lot of eccentricoutput runners that are or
sprinters that, they, thisperceived tightness.
Do you still employ the same M.
(31:26):
A.
T.
techniques that you would for aperson that again, it's like
more on the genetically hypermobile side or does your or does
the M.
A.
T.
and some of the variables.
The protocols is that somewhatvery.
Between those two types ofarchetypes.
Not necessarily again, tightnessis just the protective mechanism
with high functioning athletes,they're very good at hiding
(31:50):
their, let's call themdisabilities for now.
Their weaknesses.
They're very good at it.
They're whole as a whole entiresystem, high functioning
athletes.
Are really strong and they ifone little system isn't working
properly, there are othersystems will start to pick it
up.
The problem starts to becomeeventually everything is going
(32:14):
to start shutting down, the guysthat are the muscles that are
doing the compensating arefinally going to tap out the
reasons why from a, from ourperspective, muscle stop working
is due to stress, trauma, andoveruse.
Those are the big ones.
And of course there's a coupleof others, but those are really
the big ones at the top of thelist.
(32:35):
And so if you just overuse asystem, it's going to break down
eventually.
And that's why we see like thesehigh functioning athletes, all
of a sudden get rotator cuffsurgery because their shoulders
are a mess or knee surgery orsomething like that.
And.
I'm going to speak as a yogaperson.
(32:56):
One of the, I call it anepidemic of yoga.
People are so fascinated bygymnasts, like they look at
gymnasts and they go, I need todo what those gymnasts do to a
large degree.
But if you look at gymnasts,most high functioning gymnasts.
By 22, 23, 25, look at SimoneBiles, 26 years old, tapping out
(33:21):
and there's a 93 with gymnastswho are high performing.
93% of them need some sort ofsurgical intervention.
So I don't think that we need tolook to those kind of people
necessarily as the end goal.
To shoot towards that the, a lotof these high functioning
athletes are not highfunctioning past a certain age.
(33:45):
And I think that's something toreally glean.
I, myself at this moment, as I'mspeaking to you, I'm turning 53
in two months.
And.
I don't know that I ever reallyconsidered having a functional
body and the, in theramifications of what that
really meant until I ended up inthe hospital at around 45 with
(34:08):
the.
Orthopedic surgeon saying, Hey,we might need to do a spinal
fusion.
I'm way too young to have this.
Come on.
And so a big part of what I tryto really leave with people is
instead of trying to shoottowards looking a certain way or
being able to touch your toes.
Or whatever it is in yourmindset, I want you to have a
(34:33):
functional body enough that youcan get in and out of your car
with ease that when you'redriving, you can look over your
right shoulder with no problemsor without the fear of creaking
your neck.
Like I know so many people whenthey get to be a certain age and
it's different for a lot ofpeople, but it's usually around
somewhere between 45 and 60.
(34:55):
That a severe fear, literally apalpable fear kicks into your
daily life where you're like, Ohmy God, I got to be careful or
I'm going to hurt myself.
And that's not a great way tolive.
And so my goal is to remove thatfear just by cultivating more
stability and the stabilitybrings more mobility and freedom
(35:20):
in movement.
Yeah.
So many good points.
The first one that I want tojust reiterate is like you, we
both, I think, focus more onlike being functional and being
able, it's more important to beable to pick up your child,
which is a very meaningful taskand have the mobility to do so
versus strictly like making it agoal of yours to touch your
toes.
(35:40):
Yeah.
One is one is just much morepurposeful.
And one is just like aflexibility goal.
But a lot of people are still inthe mindset of if I Improve my
flexibility.
If I can touch my toes, I'm, Iwas going to say all my dreams
will come true, but oh yeah,everything will feel so much
better.
I will be able to like functionmore.
I think it's just better toagain be more, more stable and
more proficient, stronger, moreresilient as you get older.
(36:02):
And that is about throughtechniques such as MAT.
Being on a good strengthprogram.
I was going to hit a little biton you, you said it managing
your stress because there'sphysical stress, but there's
also psychological and emotionalstress that perpetuates
tightness as well.
So yeah what, how do you goabout some of those people too?
Are, I'm sure you have seenpeople that yes they respond to
(36:22):
MAT, but then sometimes we haveto sometimes go beyond that,
right?
There's the central nervoussystem.
The brain is in a severe stockfight or flight where.
They're in abusive relationship,or they have PTSD.
And, people don't really takeinto account the fact that there
is indeed a mind body connectionwhen the body goes through so
much emotional trauma.
(36:43):
And there's a certain amount ofthat they can tolerate is that
those emotions eventually spillover into physical stress and
they start to perpetuate this.
This discomfort that somesometimes admittedly, so it
requires a multidisciplinaryteam, or we have to take into
account the emotional side ofthings.
Do you mind maybe seeing do you,are you somebody that maybe you
(37:07):
refer out in those instances?
Do you collaborate with peoplethat, they literally tell you
These are some of the traumasthat I've been through.
Somebody passed away or otherthings.
How do you go about with thosetypes of clients?
I think so.
I think you and I can bothobjectively agree that stress
there, there's not enoughemphasis in our world, in our,
(37:31):
the wellness world, the movementworld, about the detriments of
stress.
I don't think even the medicalprofession world really grasp
the detriments of stress and howto get rid of stress, like all
the causes of stress, and thenof course we look at food.
Sleep quality.
And then of course, what I'mtalking about is stress.
(37:54):
One of the words that we usesometimes is unresolved stress
or sorry, I didn't say thatcorrectly, unresolved
inflammation.
And of course, for stressthat's.
Causing more unresolvedinflammation that's basically
stuck in different areas.
And that's why I ended up in thehospital cause I had so much
unresolved inflammation in mylower back.
(38:16):
It was stuck in an inflammatoryprocess.
I, so to answer your question,like when it comes to emotional
stuff, I think that the two arevery interlinked personally.
This is just my personal opinionnow where, If we have stress,
take someone that's got sciaticaissues.
(38:37):
And by the way, I can speak frompersonal experience.
So both looking at people andalso from my own experiences,
like if I've got sciatica,that's going to affect me in how
I'm responding to people in mylife and how I'm responding to
certain events.
And do I handle those eventswith ease and comfort or ease
(39:01):
and continuity?
Or am I like aggressive withthem, which then is going to
exacerbate more problems.
So I think that addressing itall, like always, I'm a yoga
person.
Go for broke, tackle it on allfronts.
And but I do see an enormousshift in people moving from a
(39:23):
fight or flight emotionally torest and digest.
When I get people doing muscleactivation stuff, it's quite
profound.
And one of the reasons why Iwould say that's happening is I
use this word before unresolvedinflammation that a lot of us
are carrying around thisinflammation.
(39:44):
And when we get the musclesworking properly, remember
muscles, what's connected to themuscular system?
The lymphatic system.
What is the lymphatic system do?
Moves unresolved stress.
I'm sorry, unresolvedinflammation.
And so as soon as we getpeople's muscular systems
working properly and pumpingproperly The change in them,
(40:10):
moving from that fight or flightto rest and digest is quite
profound and quite rapid.
And to answer your question,yes, I do often refer out like
there's sometimes I'm like, haveyou ever considered therapy?
But I also want to bring in theyoga techniques of relaxation,
which doesn't get enough press.
(40:31):
I think in the world as whole, alot of people think of yoga as
going, turning, going to a placewhere the temperature is 110
degrees, banging out ofpractice, sweating a lot.
We don't really think of yoga asa place of relaxation, but
relaxation is Paramount in thepractice of yoga.
So I often find, and there'sbeen a lot of research done on
(40:54):
people, for example, with PTSDand the benefits of yoga nidra
and how it can help people withPTSD it's quite profound.
There's been a lot of studiesdone on that.
So absolutely.
Multi pronged approach.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I'm glad that we both canunderstand, like, where's our
(41:14):
scopes of expertise and whenthey need to refer out when
there needs to be somecollaboration.
And yeah, lymphatic drainage is,or lymphatic system is often
very overlooked.
And, one of my sayings,especially because I've done a
lot of postoperative care iswhat's one of the best things to
improve lymphatic drainage?
It's actually muscle activationbecause the muscles literally.
The lymph.
(41:34):
The lymph flows through themuscles.
So when you're contractingmuscles, the stronger your calve
is, there's less likely, there'sless, a less likelihood of a
deep vein thrombosis in yourleg.
So getting muscles to activatewill improve your lymphatic
drainage and will clear out anysort of inflammation in the
body.
I'll tell you a story, and Ithink hopefully this can maybe
(41:54):
help you, but even help ouraudience there.
There was a client of mine.
She had 25 plus years of backpain, but it wasn't because of
necessarily inflammatorymarkers, although there probably
was some present, it was more sobecause of the authority figure.
So it's something that I thinkreally helps people with.
Unresolved tightness isassurance, right?
(42:16):
So when people go to you it'smore than just muscle
activation.
They're coming to you with asense of confidence.
Hey, this person can help me.
If they seen your testimonials,they gain assurance from it.
And this person got no assurancefor 25 plus years.
A doctor said.
Girl you have a herniated disc.
You should keep your core tightat all times.
You should stop bending.
And I'm sure you've heard thatbefore, stop bending and
(42:37):
twisting.
And she was like you know what,I'm going to stop bending and
twisting and her back was hardas a rock when I first met her.
And when she bent forward, therewas so much fight or flight.
She literally just bent forward10 degrees and she's there's the
pain.
And I'm like that's notpossible.
But a lot of neurologicaltightness and protective
mechanisms were going on.
So we essentially, I gave herassurance that, Hey, tire shoe
(43:01):
right now.
Pick up this pen, see whathappens.
I guarantee like my assurances,if you just do it, nothing's
going to happen.
And she was just assured try tobend sitting down and twist, see
what happens.
And she's she was reallyfearful, but eventually she
gained the bravery, theconfidence to do it.
And all of a sudden, 25 plusyears of neurological tightness
(43:22):
gradually went away.
And again, it's because ofassurance and maybe a little bit
of accountability, but theassurance piece just saying your
body is stuck in a fight orflight if you do this, I promise
you.
You'll be fine.
And I think that's what peoplelook towards us as leaders and
leaders of movement in ourindustry is there's always a
psychosocial component to it.
And there are a lot of doctorsthat are purely bioanatomical,
(43:46):
meaning that, they really scarethe shit out of you saying you
have a herniated disc and stopbending twisting.
But yeah, I think that's whymuscle activation works too,
because It really does give somesort of like really positive
neurological input that allowsthem to move more freely.
So not sure if you have heardstories of that and but I
hopefully that can help,somebody that maybe has a
(44:08):
mixture of like psychosocialissues, but also has some sort
of like on, unresolvedinflammation.
Or some built up tension thatseemingly feels unresolved.
Yeah, absolutely.
I people, one of the biggestcomments I think that I get from
people that do this work eitherfrom me working on them doing
(44:28):
muscle activation technique orusing the Yama methods of
isometrics that They constantlywill say things like I've never
felt so much in my body, like athome in my body.
And so a lot of this work justgets people into their bodies
and and definitely, absolutely.
There is a huge psychologicalcomponent I'm sure going on as
(44:51):
well.
The stories that we tellourselves and the belief systems
that we have about our body Ithink for example, a lot of men
just say I'm tight because I'm aguy my business partner Adam has
really gotten into bodybuildingand range of motion decreases.
And he's saying to me like mymuscles are I'm becoming muscle
(45:14):
bound.
And that's another story that alot of bodybuilders end up
telling themselves, notrealizing that it's just,
they're building up a lot ofunresolved inflammation.
Working on it, many prongapproach is always a great way.
And checking in with our storiesabout ourselves.
Yeah, I did a dissertation or aresearch study before I left PT
(45:34):
school about positive versusnegative coping.
So you alluded to it where whenyou have a certain belief about
yourself, a certain negativebelief is going to reflect a
negative action.
So you're going to potentially.
Perseverate, feel more helpless.
You might stress out more.
You might start to more so curlup into a ball and just lie down
(45:54):
and hopefully the pain goes awayversus do something more
proactive, like muscleactivation.
So it's, it is really about howcan you replace and start to
identify as a person that doessomething more proactive and
maybe doesn't seek out themedication and the manual
treatments first.
And instead maybe start toempower yourself through muscle
activation, strength training.
And which, which is going toyield longer term results and
(46:16):
more sustainable relief frompain as well.
With that being said, I feellike we can, me and you can
probably talk for days aboutmany different topics.
We probably didn't hit oneverything that we wanted to,
just for time purposes, isthere.
Is there maybe one or two thingsthat you want to leave our
audience with that maybe caneither one hit home, like a good
fact that like really can hithome with them or maybe even
compel them to take some actionfrom here.
(46:38):
Yeah, sure.
Compel them to action when youwere just talking.
One of the things that wentthrough my mind was a study that
Greg was referring to with theMayo Clinic.
And.
That they are starting to, theinformation that's starting to
come out now is saying that lossof muscle function is the
greatest contributor to aging.
(47:00):
Therefore, if you want to, thatgoes ahead of heart disease and
cholesterol and all of theseother things that a
deterioration of musclefunction.
And so if you guys want to stayyoung.
The key is improving musclefunction and check out, the work
(47:20):
that we're doing, because that'sthe greatest thing that you can
do to turn back the clock.
And if you look at old people,older people that look old,
especially what do youconstantly see?
Like limitation and range ofmotion, like barely able to
move.
And so if you, if we want toturn back the clock.
Improve muscle function.
(47:40):
And I just want to say if peoplewant to check out the work that
I'm doing, I have a free giftfor people that go to my
website, yogi iron dot com, andit's a great way for people.
But I, there's a few.
Things that I try and endeavorto do other than making people
pain free.
But one is just teaching peopleabout their bodies and like
where their hip flexors, wherethe back extensors, what are the
(48:04):
key things that we can do to getthem activated?
So there's a free seven dayseries on there.
People can access if they wantto learn more.
Beautiful.
Thank you so much.
And I will definitely leave thatin the description.
A great way to end this podcastis about literally the role of
muscle and its function.
Muscle will help with lymphaticdrainage.
(48:25):
It'll help with longevity.
If you ever get a certaindisease, what's going to help
You survive potentially thatfatal disease is still muscle
function and muscle mass.
So that's why I, that's why evenin my own, not in my own
practice, but for my own fitnessendeavors, it, bodybuilding,
strength training, running forcardiovascular purposes, but
also I like maintaining mymobility through, I'm sure that
(48:48):
there's some carryovers, somecertain muscle activation stuff
that I do for myself.
So with that being said, yeah,definitely check out yogiaron.
com.
I'll link that into thedescription down below.
And I want to thank you so much,Aaron, for providing your input,
your expertise.
Yeah, just, everything that youstand for, it's amazing.
And I know that you're inspiringa lot of people to change their
(49:09):
lives and to change the way thatthey feel.
So with that being said Aaron ifyou have anything else you want
to say, definitely like minehere, but I feel like we hit on
so many great notes and I'm surethat a lot of people get some
value from this.
Just thank you so much forhaving me on and continuing this
conversation.
Yeah, for sure.
So yeah, that's what I got forthe one body one life podcast
today.
(49:30):
If you have any feedback fromyou and Aaron.
I'll link again, Aaron's contactand his website down below.
But also if you want to supportus, leave a five star review and
and also give us some feedbackand that will allow me and also
Aaron's message to get across tomore people.
So I'll leave it.
I'll leave everyone here withthe quote that I always leave
people with.
You only have one body, onelife, make every action you take
(49:51):
be one that makes you a betterversion of you.
Take care.
And thanks so much, Aaron.
Appreciate you.
Thank you.
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