March 15, 2023 • 31 mins
Elizabeth and Larissa break down the definitions of "community" that they're using. Community includes more people than you might think!
Mentioned on this episode:
Elizabeth Taylor: The Grit & Glamour of an Icon by Kate Andersen Brower
"You Just Need to Lose Weight": And 19 Other Myths about Fat People by Aubrey Gordon
Emily Wilde's Encyclopaedia of Faeries by Heather Fawcett
Belonging: The Science of Creating Connection and Bridging Divides by Geoffrey L Cohen
Music by ZakharValaha from Pixabay
Music by ZakharValaha from Pixabay
Follow us on Instagram @wonderminepodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larissa Parson (00:02):
Welcome to Wondermine, Season 3. I'm
Larissa Parson. I'm a bodyliberationist, a writer and
podcaster, a mom to twins and abig fan of an afternoon cup of
tea.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (00:14):
And I'm Elizabeth M Johnson. I'm a
writer, a reader, a parent andan eater. You can find me at
emjwriting on Twitter andInstagram, and I also post an
occasional substack called ripetime.
Larissa Parson (00:28):
And if you're new here, Hello. We are the duo
behind this feminist podcastthat looks at the wow! and the
how of living a life rooted incuriosity, community and
liberation. If you've ever feltlike something was missing, or
you were missing something,Wondermine is the podcast for
Elizabeth M. Johnson (00:45):
If you would like to support the show,
you.
thank you, you can do that foras little as $5 a month by
visiting patreon.com/wondermine,and you get monthly bonus
episodes and our monthly bookclub.
Larissa Parson (01:01):
But before we dive in to this episode, what we
always start with is what are wereading? And we end with what
we're eating - just as a headsup for those of you who may be
new to the podcast. Elizabeth,do you want to go first with
what you're reading?
Elizabeth M. Johnson (01:16):
Yes, I do.
Larissa, I am reading a bookthat I brought along with me.
She was like, and I'm ready toshow everyone and no one can see
this except you. So I'm not surewhy I brought a prop. Show and
tell. Oh, it's like veryglaring. I am reading the grit.
And no, sorry, I think it'scalled Elizabeth Taylor, The
(01:37):
Grit and Glamour of an Icon. SoI've been sort of deep diving
into, like, I don't want to sayold Hollywood actresses,
although I think she does sortof fall into that category,
because I keep getting into thislittle, little rabbit hole of
how many of them had experiencedsexual abuse early on in their
(01:58):
life. So far, I don't thinkthat's the case with Elizabeth
Taylor. But this is a newerbiography of her. And she's
someone that I feel like I kindof like, came of age with and
she shares my first name, whichI love. So it's pretty
interesting, actually. And I'm abig movie fan. And I love
stories and a lot of, feel likea lot of movies, and we've
(02:19):
talked about this too, like alot of entertainment doesn't
give me as much of a story as Iwant. And I really craved the
story. So I'm getting a lot ofwho she was as a human besides
being an actor, so I'm enjoyingthat so far.
Larissa Parson (02:34):
Awesome. That sounds great. I'm glad you're
enjoying it. Nice.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (02:38):
What about you? What are you reading?
Larissa Parson (02:40):
Two things. I started on You Just Need to Lose
Weight by Aubrey Gordon.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (02:44):
Oh, you did? Okay.
Larissa Parson (02:45):
Uh huh. For book club.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (02:46):
Yeah.
Larissa Parson (02:47):
And I'm about I just got through like the first
chapter so far. It's veryAubrey. It's wonderful as
always. And then for fiction Iam reading. Now, I made the
mistake of not bringing along mybook and so I can't tell you
exactly who the author is. I'mnot looking at it. But it's
called the Encyclopaedia ofFaeries. It's fun. It's like,
(03:11):
it's enjoyable. The narrator ofthe novel is a dryadologist, a
studier of fairies. There's awhole dryadology department at
Cambridge that she's in andshe's one of the youngest
members of the department. She'soff doing fieldwork in a cold
(03:36):
Northern European location, andinteracting with different kinds
of fairies, common fae, highfae, like all of this stuff, so
it's, it's just really fun. It'sa nice twist on fairy stories
because I feel like I've read- Iread a lot of fantasy that is
based with or that has a lot offairies in it. I read a lot
(03:56):
about fairies, fairies, fairies,fairies all the time. And and
this one is like it's different.
It's a different approach tothat story, which is really fun.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (04:05):
Is it YA, or no?
Larissa Parson (04:07):
so far pretty YA.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (04:09):
I wasn't sure.
Larissa Parson (04:10):
Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm like, halfway through
and nobody has been naked. Butthere have been various women in
the town coming in and out ofher colleagues' room in various
modes of undress. So maybe olderya but there's nothing explicit
so far. Okay. You know, it'shard to tell for me, Elizabeth.
It's very difficult because Iread smut. But that is
(04:34):
definitely not YA.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (04:37):
Like some good, good. I was gonna say, I
think sometimes it'll tell uslike on the back of it, and I'm
always thinking is this isn't Isaid, So isn't it? Yeah.
Larissa Parson (04:48):
Yeah. I would have to go actually look at it
to tell you.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (04:53):
Okay, I'm gonna say Next time bring your
prop, Larissa.
Larissa Parson (04:56):
Mature YA. They know that sex exists.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (05:02):
Okay.
Okay, gotcha, gotcha got thissounds like mature YA? Um, okay.
So our theme this season iscommunity. And we're using a
very big definition of communityas our umbrella for our
conversations. So while we candefine community many ways, what
we are saying here, for ourpurposes is that community is
(05:24):
that huge group of people, youknow, in real life and online.
So they are social mediafriends, they are right people
and right relationships, they'refamily, they're colleagues,
they're professionalconnections, they're church
connections, they're people inyour kiddo's school or schooling
community. So huge, huge group.
Larissa Parson (05:47):
Yeah. So basically, it's like everyone
who matters to you, but a bunchof other people also. Yeah. And
then why is it so important forus to define it this way, to, to
notice that so many people thatwe might not otherwise define as
community are also part of ourcommunity, if that makes sense?
Elizabeth M. Johnson (06:04):
Yeah. Yep.
So I think it's important tonotice how many people actually
make up our community, becausethey're always influencing the
decisions that we make. So toback us up a little bit to last
season, definitely. I like tothink of this visual of a
lasagna, when I think about allthe things that we, that goes
(06:26):
into how we make decisions,right? So there are and so how
we how we make decisions,including the big themes that we
talk about here on Wondermine,so joy and rest and liberation,
and, and, obviously, likerelationships, and pleasure. So
all of these pieces, and ofcourse, our season theme here of
community. So there's three coreingredients of the lasagna,
(06:50):
we've got noodles, we've gotsauce, and we've got cheese. So
sauce is culture. And thatincludes things like systems of
oppression, like patriarchy,white supremacy. Cheese is our
lived history. So that'sincluding things like our trauma
history, right? And noodles arecommunity. So these are the
three pieces that areinfluencing the decisions that
(07:10):
we make, always right, you canadd other stuff in. We don't
want get too complicated here,we can add other things in like
our values or other pieces. Butthese are the pieces that are
always influencing the decisionsthat we make. So we need to talk
about this because community issuch a big group, community is
this huge number of people thatwe know, in real life and
online, as you just said, thepeople who matter to us and then
(07:31):
a bunch of other people. Sothey're also people that we can
be in relationship with. Okay,they're not one and done people.
Right. And I want to just kindof pause there, because that's
actually kind of a lot ofinformation right now.
Larissa Parson (07:45):
Yeah. So we're talking about your social media
people, right people, rightrelationships, that kind of
stuff. And I want to make surethat I jumped in with a couple
of distinctions here. Because,like, I'm guessing that some of
y'all are going wait, wait,wait, wait, wait, but I'm also
part of the queer community orthe black community, or, you
(08:07):
know, the poly community orwhatever. Like, you might be
thinking, I'm also part of theseother communities, and how do
those fit into this idea, andjust hold your horses there.
We're gonna get to it. We'regoing to talk about that later
this season, about like, some ofthe broader definitions of
(08:28):
community, some of the broadercommunities that we belong to,
communities that form aroundthings like identity and
interests and location. So forall of y'all who are like, but
but but but I'm part of theTotoro fan community. Yeah, I
know. So um, I will get to it, Ipromise. But right now, we're
just talking more generally,like, what does community mean?
(08:51):
And maybe if we share somespecific examples, that'll be a
little more clear.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (08:55):
Yeah.
Yeah. Because basically, lastepisode was sort of like
catching us up and kind ofhere's where we're at, and a
little bit of a primer. And thisis our first real episode
dedicated to this theme ofcommunity. Yeah, thank you for
that important clarification. Ithink Larissa because people I'm
sure wondering and questioning.
So people in my recent classthat I took over at Catapult who
(09:17):
opted to stay in touch with eachother people. Those are people
in my community, this woman wholike lives locally, I think, who
made this gorgeous grapevinewreath for my front door for
holidays. Not in my community.
It's a one and done. She islovely. I have her phone number,
but there's just absolutely noway for me to stay in touch with
her unless I literally start tobuild a relationship and kind of
figure out how we can keep incontact. If she had an Instagram
(09:41):
if she gave me the wreath andsaid hey, follow me on Instagram
for more. I'm doing one forEaster or another holiday or I
like to do xy and z, then yes,she would be in my community.
Larissa Parson (09:54):
Gotcha. Other examples? You have some more, I
think.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (09:59):
Also, I'm Thinking like Kamala Harris,
right? She's in my community. Ifollow her online, I pay
attention to what she's saying.
I was reading when she, readingwhat she was talking about when
she was in Raleigh last week. Idon't know her personally, of
course. But if I want more fromher or to feel like I'm kind of
keeping up, I can see what'sgoing on. I could see what she
tweets, I could get GoogleAlerts, whatever I want to do.
(10:19):
Governor of Florida, that evilman, not in my community, I
don't know him. I'm notconnected to him in any way. I
don't follow him online. So someexamples of like, who's in my
community? And who's not?
Larissa? What about you? Who'sin your community? People, you
know, personally? And don't? Whoare those folks for you?
Larissa Parson (10:41):
Well, I would say I mean, like the people in
my neighborhood are part of mycommunity, I live in a
neighborhood that's got a verystrong sense of community. So
that feels really clear andobvious to me. The friends that
I homeschool with are part of mycommunity, and that includes
people who are part ofhomeschooling groups that I'm
in, but that I don't have a deeppersonal connection to, but I
(11:02):
see their names over and over,or I smile at them in the park
or like I see their posts on alistserv, like they're part of
my community, too. But, to me itfeels a little bit more distant
but if I wanted to make thatconnection closer, I could.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (11:15):
Yes, yeah.
So my brother in my community,right, my daughter's friend's
parents like that, you know, theschool, a school community,
similar to yours in mycommunity. Similarly, also a
very tight neighborhoodconnection and community here,
those folks in my community,especially those board members
that I'm serving with, in mycommunity,
Larissa Parson (11:40):
Right, the checker at the Co Op - someone I
see every day when I walk intothe Co Op - part of my
community. But maybe like thatone time that I go to the Food
Lion that's like in SouthDurham, that I never go to, that
checker is not really mycommunity. Right, let's make
that distinction between likepeople I see often people I
don't see people who are part ofthings I'm part of. Yeah. What
(12:05):
got...you were gonna ask aquestion.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (12:07):
I was gonna say, what do we notice
about community? Like, what doesall of this tell us these these
these data points that we'reoffering, and like examples of
who those people are, like realexamples? What do we notice?
Larissa Parson (12:17):
So, we don't need to see people every day to
be in community with them, butwe do need to have repeated
interactions with them. And weare in community with people
with whom we have varying levelsof trust or familiarity. So
(12:41):
community is really big. Itincludes people that we may not
even like as individuals, butthey're still part of our
community.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (12:50):
Yeah. So community with people with whom
we have varying levels of trust,or familiarity. People that we
don't necessarily see everydaypeople we may or may not like as
individuals. Yes. So when youthink about all of those people,
(13:12):
how many people do you think youhave daily contact with? Because
you're talking about like, wedon't see you? And you're at the
Co-op and you see this checkerevery single day? So that's a
good example. But like, whatabout people...and there's other
people that we don't, but whatabout people, who are those
people who have daily contactwith? Um, you know, how many
people do you think that is?
Like, what does that number looklike for you?
Larissa Parson (13:31):
It's so interesting, because there's
different levels of contact,obviously. There's layers to
that. But I'm thinking it's like30, possibly more. Like, I have
group chats and one of those hasfive other people, one has four
other people. So right there,we're almost at 10. I've got a
couple people I play word gameswith and we share our scores. So
there's the 10, every day, allof these things are active. Then
(13:54):
there's a stack of people thatI'm texting all the time. So,
you, my friend Kerri, a bunch ofother folks. And that's like
another six people. My dad istexting me every day. And then
there's always somebody that I'mwalking and talking with on any
given day, whether it's taking awalk, talking on the phone or
going in person. I had coffeethis morning with my friend
(14:16):
Shelly. Shout out to Shelly.
We're getting up there. Andthat's just with your close
contacts. That's that's not evenlike, oh, I went to the store
and I talked to the checker andI talked to my neighbor on the
street on my way to the store.
And then I ran at this otherneighbor on my way home and all
of that. I haven't even gottenon to social media. I haven't
even looked at Facebook.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (14:34):
Yeah. It really adds up to like, we can't
really answer and when we kindof pause and like think about
those numbers, like I'm sure mynumbers could have close to 30
to 30. Also, it's like of coursethese people are gonna be
influencing. Right. We have alot of contact with them. Yeah,
I mean, I think about my numberslike my father also, like we're
texting every day we text backand forth about something. You
(14:55):
know, it's you. It's my twosisters. It's Darrell and Tonya
every single morning we're onTwitter, saying how are you?
Have a good day. What's goingon? There's at least 50 people,
maybe not 50. But I'd say it'sclose to 15 people on Instagram
that I'm specifically lookingat. They're people who are not
avid texters or who live indifferent time zones or
whatever. Um, same for Twitter.
There's a bunch of neighbors whoI see on a regular basis because
(15:16):
we're out and about, you know,including the ones that we
walked school with. So that'slike, you know, that's a lot.
Larissa Parson (15:24):
It's a lot. It's a whole lot. Yeah. And again,
so many. So I guess at least 30.
There right for me, too.
those are the big ones. We'renot even talking about the
little ones, like we went toStarbucks last night and ran
into the same barista who we hadseen the week before. Or there's
that one neighbor that you onlysee once a week when they're out
(15:45):
doing the thing at the same timeyou're out doing the thing.
Yeah, the thing is, yeah, yeah,so many,
Yeah, easily. 30, 40, somethinglike that. Right. And then I
think there's also the kind of,I think of them as ripples, like
when you drop a stone into apond?
Elizabeth M. Johnson (16:05):
Yes. And this is making me think of our
episode on friendlove, bonusepisode on friendlove, right?
Because we have the ripples,what do we call them ripples. I
feel like we call them ripples.
Maybe we didn't we call themmaybe something different. But
it's that's reminding when yousaid ripples. It's making me
think of that like that varyinglevel of degrees, right?
Larissa Parson (16:21):
I'm thinking of them kind of like when you drop
a stone into a pond, and it's abig, big circle, and then it
ripples out. Right? And like,they're the people that yeah,
the front, like the people thatlike you're influencing, because
somebody else is influenced byyou. So like, I'll say, Well, my
friend Elizabeth sent me thisarticle, and I think you'll
really like it and send it tosomebody else. And you're not
(16:44):
directly having contact withthem. But because I'm the
connector, we are, you are insome way,
Elizabeth M. Johnson (16:50):
in some way. Yeah.
Larissa Parson (16:53):
So speaking of sharing, should we pause for a
quick ad? Yes. Okay. Yes. Allright. Let me put on my
advertiser voice.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (17:03):
Wow.
That's good. I just go rightinto it. I'm glad. I'm glad
there's a voice transition isthere. There could be there.
Could you set it up? Likethere's gonna be so another
Larissa Parson (17:16):
We are so grateful. Every time you share
Wondermine with friends, writingus review will help others find
their Wow. And you can hear oneof those reviews right now.
"Wondermine is my favoritepodcast to listen to on a walk
or when commuting. The showtalks about all the big deep end
(17:38):
good things, and I love the listof links they curate for each
episode. Please give it alisten. If you haven't. It's
wonderful." Thanks, Julie, forthat review.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (17:51):
Reviews help people find us. So please
consider giving us one. Thankyou, Julie. We are also
transitioning from ouradvertising voice to the fact
that we are surrounded, like,getting back to your community.
Now we definitely need anadvertising voice. We are
surrounded by a lot of people ona daily basis. And this means we
(18:12):
have a lot of people influencingus.
Larissa Parson (18:16):
Right. So one of the things that is a lot easier
for me now than it used to be,but it can still be tricky
sometimes, is making sure thatI'm still listening to that
voice in myself with all ofthese other things coming in
from outside. So it's to thevalues that I hold to the things
that matter to me. And with somany interactions. And honestly,
(18:38):
as a recovering people pleaser.
It sometimes gets hard to holdon to some of that stuff. So
like it's easy, it's really easyfor me to stay the course on
body liberation, I'm socommitted, like that is really
clear. But at the same time, Iinteract with people all the
time who say things like I justfeel better when my body is a
smaller size. So and then I haveto go let me put on my body
(19:03):
liberationist hat for a momentand talk to you about that. And
then I take it back off again.
But this is maybe a good time tomention right people.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (19:17):
This is a great, I mean I think it's
always a great time
Larissa Parson (19:20):
to mention right people when do, when do, we not
want to mention right do we...
Elizabeth M. Johnson (19:23):
not want to talk about right people is
really the right question. Yeah.
So yes, because we have so manypeople influencing us. We just
talked about this 30 ish 35 ishfor you 35 ish for me about the
same amount. We have so manypeople influencing us, including
in ways we don't notice andwe're not even aware of like not
even like intentionally seekingwe desperately need our right
(19:45):
people as a counter. Okay, andjust as a refresher for for some
of us out there, our rightpeople are the safe trusted
humans, with whom you have thesame amount of power right like
you're an equal playing field,which means you can be real and
honest, they're accessible. Theysee you they help you be seen.
They give as much as they get.
(20:06):
It's kind of a lot of thingsgoing on there, but not too
much. And it's definitelypossible. So, Larissa, someone
in my community, and one of myright people, ditto for my
sisters, ditto for Naomi andJackie, my brother, in my
community, not one of my rightpeople. Hmm,
Larissa Parson (20:23):
it's important to notice that distinction.
Yeah, absolutely. Yes, yes. Theright people are the people I
turn to when something feelsoff. To me, like, I'm not clear
on something that I needclarity. Or when I need to make
a decision that isn't black andwhite and easy when it's got a
little bit of gray. And they'rethe people who I know, I can
give honest feedback to and whowill, receive, who I will
(20:46):
receive honest feedback from, aswell.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (20:51):
Right, so like, right people, people we
turn to when we need to make adecision. That's, you know, not
a clear cut yes or no. And it'shard to make those choices
because there's so many otherpeople influencing us, which is
why right people are soimportant. And we're going to
talk more about right people andof course, sort of their
parallel, right relationships,later in the season. But for
(21:13):
right now, it just feelsimportant to say that the
community is huge. Sincecommunity is huge, and it's one
of those factors that areinfluencing the decisions that
we make, it's the noodles,right? Yeah. And those include
things like, you know, the thechoices that we make things
like, you know, when am I goingto take rest? How am I going to
get movement in? What steps canI take towards like my own
(21:33):
feelings of liberation? What ispleasure look like? You know,
and also thinking to likesomething that you said on our
walk last night, you know, I'mlike talking with you about how
this class was going that hadjust finished and then like, and
I had told you a little bitabout my like, dissatisfaction
with how it was taught to thecontent was good, but how it was
taught was a little challengingfor me. And I said, "Maybe I
(21:54):
should create a course forwriters who want to teach other
people to help them be betterteachers." And you're like,
"No." And I was like, "You'reright. I should not do that,
like not in any way." So ourright people know our stuff.
Right? They have thatbackground. And they remind us
(22:14):
of that stuff, too. When we getdistracted by the world or
influenced by, oh my gosh, maybea capitalism is kind of like
nudging me in the shoulder andsaying be more productive
Elizabeth. Right, because that'sone of the pieces that influence
us, including the rest of ourcommunity, too.
Larissa Parson (22:31):
I love that story. And but y'all, I just
have to say, Elizabeth does thisfor me all the time, too.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (22:38):
That's really good to hear everyone.
Larissa Parson (22:41):
Elizabeth says, No, you may not pick that other
thing up. Don't you think you'rea little bit over extended? So
Oh, our right
Elizabeth M. Johnson (22:51):
people there, right.
Larissa Parson (22:54):
So like that some of the big questions that
they help us answer, how do weshow up for each other? What
does it look like? Likesometimes it can be something
like, wow, I'm feeling like Ireally want to show up for this
other person, talking a theright person. And I don't know
how and then your right personmight say, Well, can you do XYZ?
And it makes it a lot easier. Wetalked about what it looks like
(23:14):
to continue taking properprecautions for COVID. What does
that look like for each of us?
And we can talk about that whatfeels reasonable what feels like
too much, what feels safeenough? And then like deep
philosophical questions, whatdoes a good life look like? It's
not that we're sitting aroundgoing well, I think a good life
is one where I am thriving atall times, though, we might be
right. It's more like what arethese little things that we're
(23:36):
doing that add up to a lifefilled with liberation, joy,
community, etc.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (23:44):
And we'll talk more about this, but I
think the thing here too, isthat our right people are
important because they also giveus that sense of I'm also
wanting this. It's okay to havethis feeling. It is normal and
common to do X, Y and Z here.
Larissa Parson (24:04):
Yeah, they validate us.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (24:06):
They validate. So because community
is so huge and influential, weneed to make sure we have right
people. Right people support thechoices that allow us to live
our values, honor ourboundaries, they champion us as
much as they champion as wechampion them. So community can,
is, can be a distraction, it candistract us from what really
(24:27):
matters for us and only that'ssomething, that's only something
that we can decide forourselves, but our right people
can help us stay on track.
Right. Communities is adistraction because it's huge.
It does it's diverse, it doesn'tcenter us, right people are a
little scalpel. Okay? They helpus cut away the pieces that
don't serve us and stay focusedjust like Larissa did on our
conver... on our walk last nightand the conversation that we
(24:48):
were having.
Larissa Parson (24:50):
Exactly, exactly. Our right people. Let
us, I mean, I keep thinking oflike imagine you know how it is
when you I know you don't get onFacebook much But like pick your
social media. Yeah. outlet thatyou do engage with. And imagine
just sitting there and trying tokind of process the firehose of
information that was coming out,coming to you constantly.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (25:12):
Yeah.
Larissa Parson (25:12):
Your right people help you kind of like
hone in on what is true andright and important in all of
the things that are coming at usall the time.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (25:20):
Yeah. Yep.
Yeah. I think one last sort ofpiece here that I want to add.
Because I, I didn't, I didn'tread the whole thing. In fact, I
kind of skimmed around, it'spretty, it's very academic in
pieces. And that's okay. Butit's also for such a lengthy
(25:42):
book, it, it kind of has one ofthose fatal flaws that I
struggle with, which is, here'sall of the problems. And here's
like, you know, all of like fourpages on solutions, which I
always just tend to disregard.
But there's a book calledBelonging, and it made me think
about what it means to belong.
And belonging is something thathappens with our right people.
(26:04):
And in with our rightrelationships, we feel like our
most authentic selves, we'reallowed to be our most authentic
selves. Community are thoseencounters outside that bubble.
Okay, so belonging is that justthat deep sense of like, self
and safety and comfort in aspace, and that can be really
(26:25):
hard. And we'll talk more aboutthis and in future episodes, but
our right people really help usget to that those feelings, they
generate those feelings withinus, because we can be who we
really are when we're thosepeople. But unfortunately,
community are all of the otherencounters that can happen
outside that safety bubble.
Larissa Parson (26:43):
That is so interesting, Elizabeth, and I'm
like thinking about this. AndI'm thinking about like, oh, and
when we're talking about this,we should this I'm going to put
a pin in this for when we get toour, but the broader communities
we belong to, because I think alot of the sense of belonging in
terms of identity communities isbecause it feels like this is a
safe place for me to expressthis part of myself. Or this, or
(27:05):
who are my whole self fully.
Yeah. And so. But that'sdifferent from like, big
picture. This is. This is thecommunity we live in. It's just
a little it's a little bitdifferent from that. Cool, very
cool.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (27:19):
Thanks.
Um, anything else is on yourmind, or should we go into like,
like, What are we eating? What?
Do you want to go first to me togo first? You're like, I don't
even know what I'm having.
Larissa Parson (27:36):
You know, me, so well. Oops. Oops. Did I think
about what I was eating today?
Elizabeth M. Johnson (27:43):
I thought you had some leftovers, don't
you have.
Larissa Parson (27:46):
Let me talk while rhapsodize about my
leftovers. I have some amazingleftovers from Lime and Lemon,
which is a local Indianrestaurant. There are several
different locations, in case youneeded me to say that as an ad.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (28:00):
No, I thought there's only one.
Larissa Parson (28:01):
There's one on Ninth Street in Durham, and
there's one down in like ChapelHill or Carrboro. And I think
there's another one on the otherside is around like South Durham
or Cary or something like that.
Or Raleigh or maybe it's I don'tknow where it is, somewhere.
Anyway, I have some mango limechicken. And I have a parotta.
And a little bit of raita. And Ithink I'm going to have that for
(28:25):
lunch. And just enjoy it. It'sgoing to be delicious. It's like
a little spicy. Just the rightspicy a little creamy. Good.
Yeah, good combo. I'm excited.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (28:39):
That's that's a good lunch because it's
sunny. But it's also like reallycool, too.
Larissa Parson (28:44):
You know what? I was outside today. It's not that
cold anymore. What it's like,out there.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (28:49):
It wasn't really. It's beautiful. Well,
the sun probably warmed up.
That's the great thing aboutNorth Carolina is when the sun
comes out. It does feel warm.
Yeah. Oh gosh. I am eatinglasagna. I just started making a
sauce. I'm dropping off dinnerfor a neighbor who they just had
a baby. And so I'm making a alasagna for them. She's not
(29:12):
listening. I'm making lasagna,actually it doesn't matter
because it's come out so muchlater, making lasagna and
getting them some salad and somebread and I'm gonna make cookies
or something I was thinkingabout. It is so hard to find,
speaking of things we're eating,because I guess everyone's
eating it, cream and heavycream. Have you looked for
either of these things recently?
They are constantly out at FoodLion and they were at they were
(29:32):
out at Teeter for awhile. Idon't know what's happening
there. I don't know if it's anational shortage. But I was
gonna make a bread pudding, butI need I need cream. I need half
and half for that. And it isreally hard to find right now.
And I'm and I'm also that personwho's like, I don't really want
to go to Whole Foods and get themost expensive kind, I really
want to get the cheap nonorganic kind. So it may not be
bread pudding, but that's anywaythat's what I'm working on
(29:53):
making lasagna. My sauce so faris really good.
Larissa Parson (29:56):
Nice. I love that you're making lasagna on
the day that we're talking aboutlasagna Oh,
Elizabeth M. Johnson (30:01):
wait, I totally didn't get it. I
laughed. No, I did not get thatit just went right over my head.
Okay. Okay.
Larissa Parson (30:08):
Well, it sounds delicious. Thank you.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (30:12):
Um, what else are you to say? Yes,
Larissa Parson (30:14):
we have to finish off and say if you'd like
to support our work here on thepodcast, head over to
patreon.com/wondermine, whereyou'll have access to our
monthly bonus episodes and toour book club.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (30:26):
And if you would like to sponsor the show,
which means we give you a bigshout out in the beginning,
middle and the end, head towondermine.com forward slash
contact and reach out to usthere. And in the interim, you
can follow us atWonderminepodcast on Instagram.
Thanks again. We're so delightedthat you have been listening
Welcome to Wondermine, Season 3. I'm
Larissa Parson. I'm a bodyliberationist, a writer and
podcaster, a mom to twins and abig fan of an afternoon cup of
tea.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (00:14):
And I'm Elizabeth M Johnson. I'm a
writer, a reader, a parent andan eater. You can find me at
emjwriting on Twitter andInstagram, and I also post an
occasional substack called ripetime.
Larissa Parson (00:28):
And if you're new here, Hello. We are the duo
behind this feminist podcastthat looks at the wow! and the
how of living a life rooted incuriosity, community and
liberation. If you've ever feltlike something was missing, or
you were missing something,Wondermine is the podcast for
Elizabeth M. Johnson (00:45):
If you would like to support the show,
you.
thank you, you can do that foras little as $5 a month by
visiting patreon.com/wondermine,and you get monthly bonus
episodes and our monthly bookclub.
Larissa Parson (01:01):
But before we dive in to this episode, what we
always start with is what are wereading? And we end with what
we're eating - just as a headsup for those of you who may be
new to the podcast. Elizabeth,do you want to go first with
what you're reading?
Elizabeth M. Johnson (01:16):
Yes, I do.
Larissa, I am reading a bookthat I brought along with me.
She was like, and I'm ready toshow everyone and no one can see
this except you. So I'm not surewhy I brought a prop. Show and
tell. Oh, it's like veryglaring. I am reading the grit.
And no, sorry, I think it'scalled Elizabeth Taylor, The
(01:37):
Grit and Glamour of an Icon. SoI've been sort of deep diving
into, like, I don't want to sayold Hollywood actresses,
although I think she does sortof fall into that category,
because I keep getting into thislittle, little rabbit hole of
how many of them had experiencedsexual abuse early on in their
(01:58):
life. So far, I don't thinkthat's the case with Elizabeth
Taylor. But this is a newerbiography of her. And she's
someone that I feel like I kindof like, came of age with and
she shares my first name, whichI love. So it's pretty
interesting, actually. And I'm abig movie fan. And I love
stories and a lot of, feel likea lot of movies, and we've
(02:19):
talked about this too, like alot of entertainment doesn't
give me as much of a story as Iwant. And I really craved the
story. So I'm getting a lot ofwho she was as a human besides
being an actor, so I'm enjoyingthat so far.
Larissa Parson (02:34):
Awesome. That sounds great. I'm glad you're
enjoying it. Nice.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (02:38):
What about you? What are you reading?
Larissa Parson (02:40):
Two things. I started on You Just Need to Lose
Weight by Aubrey Gordon.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (02:44):
Oh, you did? Okay.
Larissa Parson (02:45):
Uh huh. For book club.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (02:46):
Yeah.
Larissa Parson (02:47):
And I'm about I just got through like the first
chapter so far. It's veryAubrey. It's wonderful as
always. And then for fiction Iam reading. Now, I made the
mistake of not bringing along mybook and so I can't tell you
exactly who the author is. I'mnot looking at it. But it's
called the Encyclopaedia ofFaeries. It's fun. It's like,
(03:11):
it's enjoyable. The narrator ofthe novel is a dryadologist, a
studier of fairies. There's awhole dryadology department at
Cambridge that she's in andshe's one of the youngest
members of the department. She'soff doing fieldwork in a cold
(03:36):
Northern European location, andinteracting with different kinds
of fairies, common fae, highfae, like all of this stuff, so
it's, it's just really fun. It'sa nice twist on fairy stories
because I feel like I've read- Iread a lot of fantasy that is
based with or that has a lot offairies in it. I read a lot
(03:56):
about fairies, fairies, fairies,fairies all the time. And and
this one is like it's different.
It's a different approach tothat story, which is really fun.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (04:05):
Is it YA, or no?
Larissa Parson (04:07):
so far pretty YA.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (04:09):
I wasn't sure.
Larissa Parson (04:10):
Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm like, halfway through
and nobody has been naked. Butthere have been various women in
the town coming in and out ofher colleagues' room in various
modes of undress. So maybe olderya but there's nothing explicit
so far. Okay. You know, it'shard to tell for me, Elizabeth.
It's very difficult because Iread smut. But that is
(04:34):
definitely not YA.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (04:37):
Like some good, good. I was gonna say, I
think sometimes it'll tell uslike on the back of it, and I'm
always thinking is this isn't Isaid, So isn't it? Yeah.
Larissa Parson (04:48):
Yeah. I would have to go actually look at it
to tell you.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (04:53):
Okay, I'm gonna say Next time bring your
prop, Larissa.
Larissa Parson (04:56):
Mature YA. They know that sex exists.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (05:02):
Okay.
Okay, gotcha, gotcha got thissounds like mature YA? Um, okay.
So our theme this season iscommunity. And we're using a
very big definition of communityas our umbrella for our
conversations. So while we candefine community many ways, what
we are saying here, for ourpurposes is that community is
(05:24):
that huge group of people, youknow, in real life and online.
So they are social mediafriends, they are right people
and right relationships, they'refamily, they're colleagues,
they're professionalconnections, they're church
connections, they're people inyour kiddo's school or schooling
community. So huge, huge group.
Larissa Parson (05:47):
Yeah. So basically, it's like everyone
who matters to you, but a bunchof other people also. Yeah. And
then why is it so important forus to define it this way, to, to
notice that so many people thatwe might not otherwise define as
community are also part of ourcommunity, if that makes sense?
Elizabeth M. Johnson (06:04):
Yeah. Yep.
So I think it's important tonotice how many people actually
make up our community, becausethey're always influencing the
decisions that we make. So toback us up a little bit to last
season, definitely. I like tothink of this visual of a
lasagna, when I think about allthe things that we, that goes
(06:26):
into how we make decisions,right? So there are and so how
we how we make decisions,including the big themes that we
talk about here on Wondermine,so joy and rest and liberation,
and, and, obviously, likerelationships, and pleasure. So
all of these pieces, and ofcourse, our season theme here of
community. So there's three coreingredients of the lasagna,
(06:50):
we've got noodles, we've gotsauce, and we've got cheese. So
sauce is culture. And thatincludes things like systems of
oppression, like patriarchy,white supremacy. Cheese is our
lived history. So that'sincluding things like our trauma
history, right? And noodles arecommunity. So these are the
three pieces that areinfluencing the decisions that
(07:10):
we make, always right, you canadd other stuff in. We don't
want get too complicated here,we can add other things in like
our values or other pieces. Butthese are the pieces that are
always influencing the decisionsthat we make. So we need to talk
about this because community issuch a big group, community is
this huge number of people thatwe know, in real life and
online, as you just said, thepeople who matter to us and then
(07:31):
a bunch of other people. Sothey're also people that we can
be in relationship with. Okay,they're not one and done people.
Right. And I want to just kindof pause there, because that's
actually kind of a lot ofinformation right now.
Larissa Parson (07:45):
Yeah. So we're talking about your social media
people, right people, rightrelationships, that kind of
stuff. And I want to make surethat I jumped in with a couple
of distinctions here. Because,like, I'm guessing that some of
y'all are going wait, wait,wait, wait, wait, but I'm also
part of the queer community orthe black community, or, you
(08:07):
know, the poly community orwhatever. Like, you might be
thinking, I'm also part of theseother communities, and how do
those fit into this idea, andjust hold your horses there.
We're gonna get to it. We'regoing to talk about that later
this season, about like, some ofthe broader definitions of
(08:28):
community, some of the broadercommunities that we belong to,
communities that form aroundthings like identity and
interests and location. So forall of y'all who are like, but
but but but I'm part of theTotoro fan community. Yeah, I
know. So um, I will get to it, Ipromise. But right now, we're
just talking more generally,like, what does community mean?
(08:51):
And maybe if we share somespecific examples, that'll be a
little more clear.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (08:55):
Yeah.
Yeah. Because basically, lastepisode was sort of like
catching us up and kind ofhere's where we're at, and a
little bit of a primer. And thisis our first real episode
dedicated to this theme ofcommunity. Yeah, thank you for
that important clarification. Ithink Larissa because people I'm
sure wondering and questioning.
So people in my recent classthat I took over at Catapult who
(09:17):
opted to stay in touch with eachother people. Those are people
in my community, this woman wholike lives locally, I think, who
made this gorgeous grapevinewreath for my front door for
holidays. Not in my community.
It's a one and done. She islovely. I have her phone number,
but there's just absolutely noway for me to stay in touch with
her unless I literally start tobuild a relationship and kind of
figure out how we can keep incontact. If she had an Instagram
(09:41):
if she gave me the wreath andsaid hey, follow me on Instagram
for more. I'm doing one forEaster or another holiday or I
like to do xy and z, then yes,she would be in my community.
Larissa Parson (09:54):
Gotcha. Other examples? You have some more, I
think.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (09:59):
Also, I'm Thinking like Kamala Harris,
right? She's in my community. Ifollow her online, I pay
attention to what she's saying.
I was reading when she, readingwhat she was talking about when
she was in Raleigh last week. Idon't know her personally, of
course. But if I want more fromher or to feel like I'm kind of
keeping up, I can see what'sgoing on. I could see what she
tweets, I could get GoogleAlerts, whatever I want to do.
(10:19):
Governor of Florida, that evilman, not in my community, I
don't know him. I'm notconnected to him in any way. I
don't follow him online. So someexamples of like, who's in my
community? And who's not?
Larissa? What about you? Who'sin your community? People, you
know, personally? And don't? Whoare those folks for you?
Larissa Parson (10:41):
Well, I would say I mean, like the people in
my neighborhood are part of mycommunity, I live in a
neighborhood that's got a verystrong sense of community. So
that feels really clear andobvious to me. The friends that
I homeschool with are part of mycommunity, and that includes
people who are part ofhomeschooling groups that I'm
in, but that I don't have a deeppersonal connection to, but I
(11:02):
see their names over and over,or I smile at them in the park
or like I see their posts on alistserv, like they're part of
my community, too. But, to me itfeels a little bit more distant
but if I wanted to make thatconnection closer, I could.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (11:15):
Yes, yeah.
So my brother in my community,right, my daughter's friend's
parents like that, you know, theschool, a school community,
similar to yours in mycommunity. Similarly, also a
very tight neighborhoodconnection and community here,
those folks in my community,especially those board members
that I'm serving with, in mycommunity,
Larissa Parson (11:40):
Right, the checker at the Co Op - someone I
see every day when I walk intothe Co Op - part of my
community. But maybe like thatone time that I go to the Food
Lion that's like in SouthDurham, that I never go to, that
checker is not really mycommunity. Right, let's make
that distinction between likepeople I see often people I
don't see people who are part ofthings I'm part of. Yeah. What
(12:05):
got...you were gonna ask aquestion.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (12:07):
I was gonna say, what do we notice
about community? Like, what doesall of this tell us these these
these data points that we'reoffering, and like examples of
who those people are, like realexamples? What do we notice?
Larissa Parson (12:17):
So, we don't need to see people every day to
be in community with them, butwe do need to have repeated
interactions with them. And weare in community with people
with whom we have varying levelsof trust or familiarity. So
(12:41):
community is really big. Itincludes people that we may not
even like as individuals, butthey're still part of our
community.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (12:50):
Yeah. So community with people with whom
we have varying levels of trust,or familiarity. People that we
don't necessarily see everydaypeople we may or may not like as
individuals. Yes. So when youthink about all of those people,
(13:12):
how many people do you think youhave daily contact with? Because
you're talking about like, wedon't see you? And you're at the
Co-op and you see this checkerevery single day? So that's a
good example. But like, whatabout people...and there's other
people that we don't, but whatabout people, who are those
people who have daily contactwith? Um, you know, how many
people do you think that is?
Like, what does that number looklike for you?
Larissa Parson (13:31):
It's so interesting, because there's
different levels of contact,obviously. There's layers to
that. But I'm thinking it's like30, possibly more. Like, I have
group chats and one of those hasfive other people, one has four
other people. So right there,we're almost at 10. I've got a
couple people I play word gameswith and we share our scores. So
there's the 10, every day, allof these things are active. Then
(13:54):
there's a stack of people thatI'm texting all the time. So,
you, my friend Kerri, a bunch ofother folks. And that's like
another six people. My dad istexting me every day. And then
there's always somebody that I'mwalking and talking with on any
given day, whether it's taking awalk, talking on the phone or
going in person. I had coffeethis morning with my friend
(14:16):
Shelly. Shout out to Shelly.
We're getting up there. Andthat's just with your close
contacts. That's that's not evenlike, oh, I went to the store
and I talked to the checker andI talked to my neighbor on the
street on my way to the store.
And then I ran at this otherneighbor on my way home and all
of that. I haven't even gottenon to social media. I haven't
even looked at Facebook.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (14:34):
Yeah. It really adds up to like, we can't
really answer and when we kindof pause and like think about
those numbers, like I'm sure mynumbers could have close to 30
to 30. Also, it's like of coursethese people are gonna be
influencing. Right. We have alot of contact with them. Yeah,
I mean, I think about my numberslike my father also, like we're
texting every day we text backand forth about something. You
(14:55):
know, it's you. It's my twosisters. It's Darrell and Tonya
every single morning we're onTwitter, saying how are you?
Have a good day. What's goingon? There's at least 50 people,
maybe not 50. But I'd say it'sclose to 15 people on Instagram
that I'm specifically lookingat. They're people who are not
avid texters or who live indifferent time zones or
whatever. Um, same for Twitter.
There's a bunch of neighbors whoI see on a regular basis because
(15:16):
we're out and about, you know,including the ones that we
walked school with. So that'slike, you know, that's a lot.
Larissa Parson (15:24):
It's a lot. It's a whole lot. Yeah. And again,
so many. So I guess at least 30.
There right for me, too.
those are the big ones. We'renot even talking about the
little ones, like we went toStarbucks last night and ran
into the same barista who we hadseen the week before. Or there's
that one neighbor that you onlysee once a week when they're out
(15:45):
doing the thing at the same timeyou're out doing the thing.
Yeah, the thing is, yeah, yeah,so many,
Yeah, easily. 30, 40, somethinglike that. Right. And then I
think there's also the kind of,I think of them as ripples, like
when you drop a stone into apond?
Elizabeth M. Johnson (16:05):
Yes. And this is making me think of our
episode on friendlove, bonusepisode on friendlove, right?
Because we have the ripples,what do we call them ripples. I
feel like we call them ripples.
Maybe we didn't we call themmaybe something different. But
it's that's reminding when yousaid ripples. It's making me
think of that like that varyinglevel of degrees, right?
Larissa Parson (16:21):
I'm thinking of them kind of like when you drop
a stone into a pond, and it's abig, big circle, and then it
ripples out. Right? And like,they're the people that yeah,
the front, like the people thatlike you're influencing, because
somebody else is influenced byyou. So like, I'll say, Well, my
friend Elizabeth sent me thisarticle, and I think you'll
really like it and send it tosomebody else. And you're not
(16:44):
directly having contact withthem. But because I'm the
connector, we are, you are insome way,
Elizabeth M. Johnson (16:50):
in some way. Yeah.
Larissa Parson (16:53):
So speaking of sharing, should we pause for a
quick ad? Yes. Okay. Yes. Allright. Let me put on my
advertiser voice.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (17:03):
Wow.
That's good. I just go rightinto it. I'm glad. I'm glad
there's a voice transition isthere. There could be there.
Could you set it up? Likethere's gonna be so another
Larissa Parson (17:16):
We are so grateful. Every time you share
Wondermine with friends, writingus review will help others find
their Wow. And you can hear oneof those reviews right now.
"Wondermine is my favoritepodcast to listen to on a walk
or when commuting. The showtalks about all the big deep end
(17:38):
good things, and I love the listof links they curate for each
episode. Please give it alisten. If you haven't. It's
wonderful." Thanks, Julie, forthat review.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (17:51):
Reviews help people find us. So please
consider giving us one. Thankyou, Julie. We are also
transitioning from ouradvertising voice to the fact
that we are surrounded, like,getting back to your community.
Now we definitely need anadvertising voice. We are
surrounded by a lot of people ona daily basis. And this means we
(18:12):
have a lot of people influencingus.
Larissa Parson (18:16):
Right. So one of the things that is a lot easier
for me now than it used to be,but it can still be tricky
sometimes, is making sure thatI'm still listening to that
voice in myself with all ofthese other things coming in
from outside. So it's to thevalues that I hold to the things
that matter to me. And with somany interactions. And honestly,
(18:38):
as a recovering people pleaser.
It sometimes gets hard to holdon to some of that stuff. So
like it's easy, it's really easyfor me to stay the course on
body liberation, I'm socommitted, like that is really
clear. But at the same time, Iinteract with people all the
time who say things like I justfeel better when my body is a
smaller size. So and then I haveto go let me put on my body
(19:03):
liberationist hat for a momentand talk to you about that. And
then I take it back off again.
But this is maybe a good time tomention right people.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (19:17):
This is a great, I mean I think it's
always a great time
Larissa Parson (19:20):
to mention right people when do, when do, we not
want to mention right do we...
Elizabeth M. Johnson (19:23):
not want to talk about right people is
really the right question. Yeah.
So yes, because we have so manypeople influencing us. We just
talked about this 30 ish 35 ishfor you 35 ish for me about the
same amount. We have so manypeople influencing us, including
in ways we don't notice andwe're not even aware of like not
even like intentionally seekingwe desperately need our right
(19:45):
people as a counter. Okay, andjust as a refresher for for some
of us out there, our rightpeople are the safe trusted
humans, with whom you have thesame amount of power right like
you're an equal playing field,which means you can be real and
honest, they're accessible. Theysee you they help you be seen.
They give as much as they get.
(20:06):
It's kind of a lot of thingsgoing on there, but not too
much. And it's definitelypossible. So, Larissa, someone
in my community, and one of myright people, ditto for my
sisters, ditto for Naomi andJackie, my brother, in my
community, not one of my rightpeople. Hmm,
Larissa Parson (20:23):
it's important to notice that distinction.
Yeah, absolutely. Yes, yes. Theright people are the people I
turn to when something feelsoff. To me, like, I'm not clear
on something that I needclarity. Or when I need to make
a decision that isn't black andwhite and easy when it's got a
little bit of gray. And they'rethe people who I know, I can
give honest feedback to and whowill, receive, who I will
(20:46):
receive honest feedback from, aswell.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (20:51):
Right, so like, right people, people we
turn to when we need to make adecision. That's, you know, not
a clear cut yes or no. And it'shard to make those choices
because there's so many otherpeople influencing us, which is
why right people are soimportant. And we're going to
talk more about right people andof course, sort of their
parallel, right relationships,later in the season. But for
(21:13):
right now, it just feelsimportant to say that the
community is huge. Sincecommunity is huge, and it's one
of those factors that areinfluencing the decisions that
we make, it's the noodles,right? Yeah. And those include
things like, you know, the thechoices that we make things
like, you know, when am I goingto take rest? How am I going to
get movement in? What steps canI take towards like my own
(21:33):
feelings of liberation? What ispleasure look like? You know,
and also thinking to likesomething that you said on our
walk last night, you know, I'mlike talking with you about how
this class was going that hadjust finished and then like, and
I had told you a little bitabout my like, dissatisfaction
with how it was taught to thecontent was good, but how it was
taught was a little challengingfor me. And I said, "Maybe I
(21:54):
should create a course forwriters who want to teach other
people to help them be betterteachers." And you're like,
"No." And I was like, "You'reright. I should not do that,
like not in any way." So ourright people know our stuff.
Right? They have thatbackground. And they remind us
(22:14):
of that stuff, too. When we getdistracted by the world or
influenced by, oh my gosh, maybea capitalism is kind of like
nudging me in the shoulder andsaying be more productive
Elizabeth. Right, because that'sone of the pieces that influence
us, including the rest of ourcommunity, too.
Larissa Parson (22:31):
I love that story. And but y'all, I just
have to say, Elizabeth does thisfor me all the time, too.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (22:38):
That's really good to hear everyone.
Larissa Parson (22:41):
Elizabeth says, No, you may not pick that other
thing up. Don't you think you'rea little bit over extended? So
Oh, our right
Elizabeth M. Johnson (22:51):
people there, right.
Larissa Parson (22:54):
So like that some of the big questions that
they help us answer, how do weshow up for each other? What
does it look like? Likesometimes it can be something
like, wow, I'm feeling like Ireally want to show up for this
other person, talking a theright person. And I don't know
how and then your right personmight say, Well, can you do XYZ?
And it makes it a lot easier. Wetalked about what it looks like
(23:14):
to continue taking properprecautions for COVID. What does
that look like for each of us?
And we can talk about that whatfeels reasonable what feels like
too much, what feels safeenough? And then like deep
philosophical questions, whatdoes a good life look like? It's
not that we're sitting aroundgoing well, I think a good life
is one where I am thriving atall times, though, we might be
right. It's more like what arethese little things that we're
(23:36):
doing that add up to a lifefilled with liberation, joy,
community, etc.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (23:44):
And we'll talk more about this, but I
think the thing here too, isthat our right people are
important because they also giveus that sense of I'm also
wanting this. It's okay to havethis feeling. It is normal and
common to do X, Y and Z here.
Larissa Parson (24:04):
Yeah, they validate us.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (24:06):
They validate. So because community
is so huge and influential, weneed to make sure we have right
people. Right people support thechoices that allow us to live
our values, honor ourboundaries, they champion us as
much as they champion as wechampion them. So community can,
is, can be a distraction, it candistract us from what really
(24:27):
matters for us and only that'ssomething, that's only something
that we can decide forourselves, but our right people
can help us stay on track.
Right. Communities is adistraction because it's huge.
It does it's diverse, it doesn'tcenter us, right people are a
little scalpel. Okay? They helpus cut away the pieces that
don't serve us and stay focusedjust like Larissa did on our
conver... on our walk last nightand the conversation that we
(24:48):
were having.
Larissa Parson (24:50):
Exactly, exactly. Our right people. Let
us, I mean, I keep thinking oflike imagine you know how it is
when you I know you don't get onFacebook much But like pick your
social media. Yeah. outlet thatyou do engage with. And imagine
just sitting there and trying tokind of process the firehose of
information that was coming out,coming to you constantly.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (25:12):
Yeah.
Larissa Parson (25:12):
Your right people help you kind of like
hone in on what is true andright and important in all of
the things that are coming at usall the time.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (25:20):
Yeah. Yep.
Yeah. I think one last sort ofpiece here that I want to add.
Because I, I didn't, I didn'tread the whole thing. In fact, I
kind of skimmed around, it'spretty, it's very academic in
pieces. And that's okay. Butit's also for such a lengthy
(25:42):
book, it, it kind of has one ofthose fatal flaws that I
struggle with, which is, here'sall of the problems. And here's
like, you know, all of like fourpages on solutions, which I
always just tend to disregard.
But there's a book calledBelonging, and it made me think
about what it means to belong.
And belonging is something thathappens with our right people.
(26:04):
And in with our rightrelationships, we feel like our
most authentic selves, we'reallowed to be our most authentic
selves. Community are thoseencounters outside that bubble.
Okay, so belonging is that justthat deep sense of like, self
and safety and comfort in aspace, and that can be really
(26:25):
hard. And we'll talk more aboutthis and in future episodes, but
our right people really help usget to that those feelings, they
generate those feelings withinus, because we can be who we
really are when we're thosepeople. But unfortunately,
community are all of the otherencounters that can happen
outside that safety bubble.
Larissa Parson (26:43):
That is so interesting, Elizabeth, and I'm
like thinking about this. AndI'm thinking about like, oh, and
when we're talking about this,we should this I'm going to put
a pin in this for when we get toour, but the broader communities
we belong to, because I think alot of the sense of belonging in
terms of identity communities isbecause it feels like this is a
safe place for me to expressthis part of myself. Or this, or
(27:05):
who are my whole self fully.
Yeah. And so. But that'sdifferent from like, big
picture. This is. This is thecommunity we live in. It's just
a little it's a little bitdifferent from that. Cool, very
cool.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (27:19):
Thanks.
Um, anything else is on yourmind, or should we go into like,
like, What are we eating? What?
Do you want to go first to me togo first? You're like, I don't
even know what I'm having.
Larissa Parson (27:36):
You know, me, so well. Oops. Oops. Did I think
about what I was eating today?
Elizabeth M. Johnson (27:43):
I thought you had some leftovers, don't
you have.
Larissa Parson (27:46):
Let me talk while rhapsodize about my
leftovers. I have some amazingleftovers from Lime and Lemon,
which is a local Indianrestaurant. There are several
different locations, in case youneeded me to say that as an ad.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (28:00):
No, I thought there's only one.
Larissa Parson (28:01):
There's one on Ninth Street in Durham, and
there's one down in like ChapelHill or Carrboro. And I think
there's another one on the otherside is around like South Durham
or Cary or something like that.
Or Raleigh or maybe it's I don'tknow where it is, somewhere.
Anyway, I have some mango limechicken. And I have a parotta.
And a little bit of raita. And Ithink I'm going to have that for
(28:25):
lunch. And just enjoy it. It'sgoing to be delicious. It's like
a little spicy. Just the rightspicy a little creamy. Good.
Yeah, good combo. I'm excited.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (28:39):
That's that's a good lunch because it's
sunny. But it's also like reallycool, too.
Larissa Parson (28:44):
You know what? I was outside today. It's not that
cold anymore. What it's like,out there.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (28:49):
It wasn't really. It's beautiful. Well,
the sun probably warmed up.
That's the great thing aboutNorth Carolina is when the sun
comes out. It does feel warm.
Yeah. Oh gosh. I am eatinglasagna. I just started making a
sauce. I'm dropping off dinnerfor a neighbor who they just had
a baby. And so I'm making a alasagna for them. She's not
(29:12):
listening. I'm making lasagna,actually it doesn't matter
because it's come out so muchlater, making lasagna and
getting them some salad and somebread and I'm gonna make cookies
or something I was thinkingabout. It is so hard to find,
speaking of things we're eating,because I guess everyone's
eating it, cream and heavycream. Have you looked for
either of these things recently?
They are constantly out at FoodLion and they were at they were
(29:32):
out at Teeter for awhile. Idon't know what's happening
there. I don't know if it's anational shortage. But I was
gonna make a bread pudding, butI need I need cream. I need half
and half for that. And it isreally hard to find right now.
And I'm and I'm also that personwho's like, I don't really want
to go to Whole Foods and get themost expensive kind, I really
want to get the cheap nonorganic kind. So it may not be
bread pudding, but that's anywaythat's what I'm working on
(29:53):
making lasagna. My sauce so faris really good.
Larissa Parson (29:56):
Nice. I love that you're making lasagna on
the day that we're talking aboutlasagna Oh,
Elizabeth M. Johnson (30:01):
wait, I totally didn't get it. I
laughed. No, I did not get thatit just went right over my head.
Okay. Okay.
Larissa Parson (30:08):
Well, it sounds delicious. Thank you.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (30:12):
Um, what else are you to say? Yes,
Larissa Parson (30:14):
we have to finish off and say if you'd like
to support our work here on thepodcast, head over to
patreon.com/wondermine, whereyou'll have access to our
monthly bonus episodes and toour book club.
Elizabeth M. Johnson (30:26):
And if you would like to sponsor the show,
which means we give you a bigshout out in the beginning,
middle and the end, head towondermine.com forward slash
contact and reach out to usthere. And in the interim, you
can follow us atWonderminepodcast on Instagram.
Thanks again. We're so delightedthat you have been listening
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