May 21, 2024 • 31 mins
On the heels of Sean "Diddy" Combs and Cassidy's domestic violence case. The staggering reality that one in four Christian women has faced domestic violence in the U.S. is not just a statistic; it's a catalyst for our in-depth exploration of the emotional, psychological, and financial afflictions that accompany this crisis.
I challenge entrenched beliefs and the notion that suffering in silence is an act of piety, advocating instead for informed compassion and a New Testament-rooted approach to men and women relationships. We discuss the critical role of professional therapy within spiritual practices and the imperative for church leaders to become educated allies.
Youtube & Podcast Description:
I challenge entrenched beliefs and the notion that suffering in silence is an act of piety, advocating instead for informed compassion and a New Testament-rooted approach to men and women relationships. We discuss the critical role of professional therapy within spiritual practices and the imperative for church leaders to become educated allies.
Youtube & Podcast Description:
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, I didn't want to do it, but here we go.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's so difficult to reflect on the darkest times in
your life.
Sometimes you got to do that.
I was f***ed up.
I mean I hit rock bottom, but Imade no excuses.
My behavior on that video isinexcusable.
I take full responsibility formy actions in that video.
(00:30):
Disgusted, I was disgusted thenwhen I did it.
I'm disgusted now.
I went in and I sought outprofessional help, had to go
into therapy, had to go intorehab, had to ask God for his
mercy and grace.
(00:51):
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We're going to dive into a topic that is both deeply
troubling and many people don'twant to talk about it.
Right, it's a system, somethingthat happens in our communities
all the time, and it'simportant for us to talk about
it to get rid of the silence.
It's about domestic violence.
(01:20):
That's what this episode isabout.
Did you know that just doingresearch and Pew Research did a
poll around this area ofdomestic violence?
And Pew Research said that onein four Christian women in the
(01:41):
United States have experienceddomestic violence One in four.
Barner Group, another famousresearch institution survey,
found that many church leadersfeel inept or ill-equipped to
address the issue of domesticviolence, domestic violence,
(02:14):
with nearly 26% of women sayingthat they have experienced
abusive relationships, trustingthat God would intervene, and
that pastors were using this wayof teaching as a way to keep
people in relationships becauseof their antiquated ways about
divorce.
And these statistics underscorea deep need that we become more
(02:36):
informed and compassionateaction within our church and
within our faith communities.
All right, so welcome to theWords for Change podcast.
I'm Lionel and today we're goingto tackle a complex subject.
And remember, hey, my goal isto help people who have
(02:58):
disconnected from the message ofJesus Christ or become
disconnected from church, toreconnect with Christ, leading
to social change.
And we're going to tackle thistopic today.
It is complex.
It deals with the intersectionsbetween really domestic
violence, uh, mental healthwhich is what, uh, you, you
(03:20):
heard in the clip from P Diddyand Christianity.
And what does the church, whatis this church having to say
about this?
So the problem is this theproblem is is that domestic
violence is not just physicalassault, it's emotional assault,
it encompasses emotional andpsychological issues, it
(03:44):
encompasses financial abuse aswell, and within Christian
communities, this is oftencompounded by misinterpretation
of scripture and a culture ofsilence, okay, where many
victims, many victims, suffer inisolation, believing that their
(04:07):
faith requires that they stayin abusive relationships,
believing that their faith isgoing to help deliver them from
these situations.
That's the problem that we'redealing with and that's the
complication that we hope toaddress in this episode.
(04:30):
So if we, if we looked at aChristian response because,
again, my, my job as a, as aperson of responsibility who has
an audience that listens myaudience Right, whether you have
been, is there some of you whoare listening that you may have
(04:52):
experienced abuse before, youmay have experienced
relationship abuse in your lifeand some people who are
listening to this, or you knowsomeone who has experienced a
tremendous amount of abuse inchurch or in life and we're
(05:12):
going to talk about the churchpiece in a minute but you may
have experienced a tremendousamount of abuse in life and
because of it you left thechurch and because of it you
left the church.
And so I want to set the recordstraight that what we're dealing
with here is a complicatedsituation that has tremendous
(05:36):
impact on how we viewrelationships in mental health,
how we relate.
What we're seeing here is thatthere's a misconception and
there's a problem with the wayof how we relate with men and
women, our understanding of howmen and women should relate to
(05:58):
each other in the church and inthe world, and I've seen this
happen more and more andincreasing over time, as men and
women have different, morecomplications with relating to
each other in respectable ways.
And let me just say thissleeping with somebody is not
(06:20):
the only way you relate to theopposite sex.
In other words, body is not theonly way you relate to the
opposite sex, in other words,that's a sexual contact is not
the only reason for relating tothe opposite sex.
You understand what I'm saying,okay, so I want to tackle this
subject today because it'simportant, it's in the news
everywhere and I want you tohear my perspective.
(06:44):
And I want you to hear, becauseyou know my, my point of view
on this and, as I'll be honestwith you, as I thought about who
a part of this podcast audiencelistens to, uh, is it has
experienced or is experiencingabuse, or has experienced abuse
(07:05):
before, and how are you dealingwith it?
How have you dealt with it?
Okay, so once again, I want topresent the problem to you, that
the problem is that domesticviolence is not just something
that happens with physical abuse, but it's financial, it's
(07:26):
emotional, it's psychological,and that within, within the
church, within Christiancommunities, because abuse
happens often in Christiancommunities and pastors will
cover it up or force people tostay in relationships that are
detrimental to their health andwell-being, simply because of
their view of scripture andinterpretation of scripture that
(07:50):
fosters a culture of silence.
Think about this aninterpretation of scripture that
fosters and holds on to aculture of violence and, as a
result, result, people suffer insilence, believing that all
they have to do is pray or allthey have to do is talk to the
(08:10):
pastor.
All they have to do is seek god, or all they have to do is be
quiet and go to the altar onsunday morning, and that, even
though it's important, is therequisite requirement for
deliverance from God, which isnot true.
That you don't have to havefaith, you don't have to
(08:33):
experience abuse to demonstratefaith in God.
Okay, now here's.
Here's what what the newTestament says.
The new Testament provides afoundation for how we can
address these issues right there.
There are many scripture versesin the bible that talks about
that, demonstrates how men andwomen relate to each other.
(08:56):
Now, even though abuse may notuh, uh, domestic abuse may not
be clearly stated in scripture,but there are scripture verses
that hint at how men and womenought to relate to each other.
And I and that's one of thereasons why I'm talking about
(09:16):
this today, because this is abiblical perspective that many
people find themselves inrelationships.
Think about, think about howmany people find themselves in
relationship, that they areexperiencing this kind of
violence.
So how, how can we deal withthis from a biblical perspective
(09:37):
?
How, how can justice andcompassion be demonstrated in
relationships, or how shouldjustice and compassion be
demonstrated in relationship?
Or how should justice andcompassion be demonstrated in
relationship so that we canbegin understanding how men and
women should relate to eachother in relationship and that
(09:57):
when you experience any form ofabuse in a church environment or
when you see abuse happeningwith church members or with
family members, you don't justhave to tell a person that it's
God's will for you to stay inthat situation and continue to
(10:20):
experience abuse.
Ephesians look at Ephesians 521calls us to submit to one
another with reverence forChrist.
So so when a person submits toto one another is talking about
as highlighting mutual respect,mutual love, not domination.
Jesus teaches, emphasizes love,right, respect and inherent
(10:46):
dignity for every individual,right, countering any
justifications for abuse.
So if we, if if we just take amoment to understand that some
scripture verses are not meantto be taken literally, meaning
that there are stories andinstances in the Bible that are
(11:12):
sometimes metaphoric, right when, when, for instance, when the
scripture talks about divorce,scripture talks about divorce,
jesus says that Moses did notallow divorce because men were
simply men, women wereconsidered property during their
time, and so, because womenwere considered property, men
(11:39):
would oftentimes divorce them atwill and whim.
So when Jesus talks about thebill of divorcement in the
gospels and saying that thisfrom the beginning it was not so
, but Moses allowed for divorce.
This is in the Gospels.
In Matthew he's not talkingabout there's never an occasion
for divorce.
What he's talking about in thattext is that men can't just put
(12:05):
women away whenever they'regood and ready to do such a
thing.
See, that's understanding thecontext of the of the scripture
verse, and some of you wholisten to me, you may feel
trapped because you believe thatthere are no circumstances by
which a person can becomedivorced, and this is the reason
why a lot of people will stayin abusive relationships.
(12:28):
Now we're going to talk aboutthis more in another topic, so I
want you, if you're watchingthis on youtube, I want you to
check out.
The next video should be put upright here, and we'll continue
to delve into this topic andrelationship even more.
So, the key point that we areaddressing here is that domestic
violence within Christiancommunity is a lie and it is a
(12:53):
problem because scripture isbeing interpreted and it's false
and misinterpreted.
That is, and because of it.
It is false in an environmentwhere victims feel that to seek
safety and to seek help could beproblematic, and it's crucial
(13:15):
to replace this harmfulpatriarchal normative with a
mutual respect, as it relates tohow men and women relate to
each other.
That's critically important aswell.
Now I want to show you somethingelse, because there is more,
y'all, there's more.
(13:37):
I remember years ago, I umactually, let me, let me just
say this, let me show you avideo, and this video If you're
watching it, you can see it.
If you're listening, you canhear the audio as well.
But it talks about the problemthat we're dealing with in my,
with abuse in church and whatwe're seeing from P Diddy,
(14:00):
listen.
It's not just happening in thesecular culture, diddy, listen
it.
It's not just happening in thesecular culture.
This is this what I'm saying.
It is initially a problem ofunderstanding how important many
people in the church will relyon their spirituality to solve
all problems, or going to churchor participating in a small
(14:23):
group that will solve all yourproblems.
Now, all of these things aregreat and all of these things
have that value.
What I'm saying is that thereare instances where people are
going and participating inreligious communities and
there's not an honestconversation about the
(14:44):
complicated relational issuesthat people are going through or
experiencing in these churcheswhen people are abusing women or
men are abusing their childrenand the church never talks about
it and the church leaves it outthere.
It's a problematic.
(15:04):
So education and awareness is acritical component that church
leadership must be trained torecognize the signs of abuse and
report it appropriately.
I remember years ago, when Iwas executive pastor of a church
, that we had a guy who was whohad, who had been convicted of
(15:32):
predatory behavior upon minors,and we we allowed that
individual to come to church,but we had to implement certain
measures in order to keep thatindividual away from other
children.
So it was a complicatedsituation but at the end of the
(15:55):
day, we were, we were in a placewhere we were, we appropriately
dealt with the situation andthen we let the church know what
the issue was and why we weredoing what we were doing, right,
so that people could seeksupport and feel safe in that
they didn't have to worry abouttheir children.
Right, you know, even even ifthis individual didn't want to
(16:18):
harm anyone in the community,right, but what we were trying
to communicate through ourleadership was that we as a
community were were supportingand spiritual support to those
(16:38):
who had experienced these kindsof abusive experiences.
Now I'm going to show you watchthis.
This is another video that'sgoing to help bring more clarity
to the situation.
Just listen here.
Now let me position this right,because I'm going to try to get
(16:59):
through this as soon aspossible, because it's actually
long.
We're not going to watch thewhole thing, but this is the
church I remember years ago,when I was a pastor in the
Dallas Fort Worth area.
I remember this being a topicthat we kept seeing churches
popping up in the newspaper, inthe local newspaper, about
pastors spanking women.
You heard that right, okay, soso check, so check this out.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
This was a report that was done as well and that's
where, in that room, um herapes me.
You know, um it wasn't sex,because I was a kid.
What?
Speaker 4 (17:39):
did Rush do to you as a family?
Speaker 3 (17:43):
It blew us all apart what he caused changed me
permanently.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
The sisters were in high school when they first met
Rush.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So Mr Rush was my teacher.
He was starting a church and hewas looking for members.
He was always looking for themisfit If you didn't fit in.
He was trying to look for youto pull you in.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
They say they initially saw him as a father
figure who lavished them withattention they weren't getting
at home.
When Fields became pregnant bya classmate her junior year of
high school, Rush supported her.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
He was like you're going to be right here with me,
I'm going to take care of you.
He's like you need to come tomy church.
He told me that he would, youknow, take me under his wing.
So I just held on to him fordear life.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
The sisters now describe Rush's behavior as
grooming, that he gained theirtrust to manipulate and abuse
them.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
He was telling me that, you know, I needed to wear
clothes that were appropriatefor someone that's pregnant.
So he was like how to dress?
I remember him pulling my shirtup and saying you're not going
to be able to wear that bra.
You're going to get somematernity bras.
While he's asking me questionsabout them being tender, he
would be touching me around mynipples and then, you know,
pulling my pants open.
You're not going to be able towear those kind of panties.
You're going to have to getmaternity panties.
(19:00):
And I'm like, ok, and then hebought them.
He bought the things that Ineeded and so I would wear them.
And then he would check on meto see, you know, are you
comfortable, are you?
Speaker 4 (19:09):
OK, and do you feel at this point like he's still in
this position of power over you?
Yeah, well, well.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I just thought we were friends, and no man should
be a friend to a young girl likethat.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Now let me just say that this is the problem that we
have.
This is the issue that we'redealing with, that we are
dealing with churches andcongregations.
We're dealing with a cycle ofabuse that happens in the world.
(19:43):
What we saw, what we saw happenin with this whole PDD thing,
it's a part of the hip hopcommunity and, like I said when
the Me Too movement hit thehip-hop community, the hip-hop
community is in trouble and alsoit happens in churches and
(20:07):
there's some people who arelistening, who have been victims
of abuse in churches.
That's real talk, and so I wantyou to know that what you are
experiencing and we're going totalk about this in another video
(20:28):
in the future.
I'll get into this more, sojust continue to connect with us
.
But this is important and justjust to summarize what we talked
about, because I know thatthere are some people who are
listening to this and you mayhave left church because you
were abused, right, and my goalis to provide, not a solution,
(20:57):
but to say that there are peoplewho are aware and are listening
, and these kinds of issues will, these kind of truths will
continue to come out and peoplewill, voices will be heard.
So we we address several thingsthat in this, in this text
right, we've addressed thatdomestic violence within
christian community uh, lies inan incorrect interpretation of
(21:21):
scripture and it fosters anenvironment where victims feel
unsafe to seek help.
But we want people to feel safeto seek help and it's crucial
and critical for us to replaceharmful ways of relating, of how
men relate to women, how loveis represented, that it needs to
(21:43):
be something of mutuality anduh, that that the you relating
to the opposite sex, theopposite gender, is not for sex,
only for sexual purposes right.
That there are other ways ofrelating to people that are
outside of that.
And that part of our Christiancommitment is to be that of
(22:05):
having mutual respect and lovefor each other.
That exemplifies what Christwould want us to be.
As a matter of fact, even inmarriage relationships, the
Bible says treat your spouse asa fellow heir of the kingdom of
God that's in the epistles,meaning that that person has
dreams, goals and desires justlike you do, and your job is not
(22:27):
to dominate, and this is whatJesus talked about in the
gospels, is not to relate simplythrough domination but through
humility, and uh, humility andwith a sense of respect for the
other person Right.
So so our job is to create anenvironment where people can
(22:51):
relate to one another in very,very healthy ways ways.
Our job is to support people whoare seeking safety, encourage
people to seek professional help.
That you got people who arefrustrated because they've been
(23:12):
abused as a child and then, whenthey get it, they get called by
God when they become an adultand they've never dealt with
that abuse and then they beginacting out on other people in
private because they haven'tdealt with their own demons.
And I'm saying that sometimeswhat we need to do is that we
need to experience therapyourselves.
That that's as just as muchspiritual practice as reading
(23:34):
the Bible.
That getting professional helpis as much as a spiritual
obligation as reading scripture,rather than advising people to
remain in harmful situations.
Get the authorities involved.
See that as a gospelparticipatory project of helping
(23:55):
women who've been abused andmen who have been abused to get
networks of help.
The church can provide thenecessary emotional and
spiritual support for survivors,people who've been through
these things.
Okay, so you know I rememberyears ago, just once again.
You know I remember years ago,just once again, that there was
(24:20):
reports coming out about men whowere spanking women in the
church.
Think about that.
You heard me right Spankingwomen.
I'm not laughing because it'snot funny, because it is true it
is something that happened, butif this is what the gospel is
(24:44):
moving us to, then we're introuble.
So just to summarize here one Iwant us to understand what
we're talking about thatdomestic violence is a pervasive
issue in Christian communitiesand is often misunderstood and
(25:04):
it is often mishandled.
Number two the correctinterpretation of scripture
advocates for mutual respect,love and love, not submission
and the endurance of abuse forsome spiritual purpose, for some
spiritual purpose.
The education and training ofleaders is crucial to providing
(25:25):
the appropriate support forvictims of abuse and that
creating safe and supportivechurch communities and
environments can significantlyaid in the healing process for
survivors.
So, once again, if you knowsomeone who's experiencing
(25:46):
domestic violence, if you knowsomeone who is in this kind of
situation and they don't know away out, they don't know what to
do.
They don't have to stay in thatcircumstance, they don't have
to surf in silence.
Stay in that circumstance, theydon't have to surf in silence,
but help them to get the helpthat they need, to reach out, to
get the counseling and supportfactors around them and
(26:08):
encourage your people to go totherapy.
Promote church well-being byproviding a step-by-step
approaches and support forvictims and the perpetrators
right, providing accuratebiblical interpretation of texts
that can help create mutualrelationships between men and
(26:30):
females, men and women in thechurch, males and females, and
foster an environment whereeveryone feels safe and valued.
Females and foster anenvironment where everyone feels
safe and valued, giving peopleleadership roles and then not
requiring, but holding thisstandard that, no matter what
your gender is in the church,each person should be treated
(26:54):
with respect and love.
And so, once again, thinkingabout you, a listener, I want
you to know that, if you haveexperienced abuse and you have
disconnected from the church,you are exploring your faith,
and some of it has to do becauseyou have experienced abuse in
(27:15):
your past in church.
I want to encourage you thatthere are churches and there are
communities out there that willsurround you and provide the
proper support you need to helpyou regain faith in your
religious organization.
Yes, there are many churchesthat are not doing it right, but
(27:37):
there are some that are.
Yes, there are many churchesthat are not doing it right, but
there are some that are, and Idon't want you to give up, right
, because wherever you have ahuman institution, you're going
to have complications.
It doesn't excuse it at all,okay, it just says that this is
(28:02):
what we're trying to do isreconnect and understand that
Jesus is different from thechurch, but you still need a
community that you can be a partof, and there are some healthy
ones out there, okay, so, guys,listen, I appreciate your
patience.
I didn't want to do this, butthe more I thought about it, it
felt right, because there arepeople who are experiencing
(28:23):
abuse in churches and they'relistening to me.
It is my God-givenresponsibility to talk about
this subject matter, because itis an important subject matter
from a biblical perspective, andso down in the description,
(28:44):
you're watching this video.
Down in the description, I'llput a link to some resources
that, if you're experiencingabuse that you can get help with
, you can watch the next videoright here.
Actually, you can watch thenext video here.
If you're get help with, youcan watch the next video right
here.
Actually, you can watch thenext video here.
If you're listening to this,obviously, you can watch, you
can listen, but there'll belinks in the description for you
(29:07):
as well.
Okay, so thank you, guys forjoining this episode of Words to
Change podcast.
Hey, our goal is to continue tobring the truth and to help
people heal, to help peoplereconnect with the gospel of
Jesus Christ, and you as theaudience, uh, you are helping us
to do that and we really thankyou so much for your support.
(29:30):
Okay, so I want to encourageyou to stay strong.
Remember that nothing changesuntil you change first.
That change begins withawareness and action.
Okay, so, until next time I'msigning off again, nothing
changes until you change.
First.
That change begins withawareness and action.
Okay, so, until next time I'msigning off Again, make sure you
watch the next video right hereon YouTube, and I look forward
to seeing you guys in the nextvideo.
Salute and I'm out.
(29:52):
Thank you, you, thank you,thank you.
Hey guys, I didn't want to do it, but here we go.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's so difficult to reflect on the darkest times in
your life.
Sometimes you got to do that.
I was f***ed up.
I mean I hit rock bottom, but Imade no excuses.
My behavior on that video isinexcusable.
I take full responsibility formy actions in that video.
(00:30):
Disgusted, I was disgusted thenwhen I did it.
I'm disgusted now.
I went in and I sought outprofessional help, had to go
into therapy, had to go intorehab, had to ask God for his
mercy and grace.
(00:51):
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We're going to dive into a topic that is both deeply
troubling and many people don'twant to talk about it.
Right, it's a system, somethingthat happens in our communities
all the time, and it'simportant for us to talk about
it to get rid of the silence.
It's about domestic violence.
(01:20):
That's what this episode isabout.
Did you know that just doingresearch and Pew Research did a
poll around this area ofdomestic violence?
And Pew Research said that onein four Christian women in the
(01:41):
United States have experienceddomestic violence One in four.
Barner Group, another famousresearch institution survey,
found that many church leadersfeel inept or ill-equipped to
address the issue of domesticviolence, domestic violence,
(02:14):
with nearly 26% of women sayingthat they have experienced
abusive relationships, trustingthat God would intervene, and
that pastors were using this wayof teaching as a way to keep
people in relationships becauseof their antiquated ways about
divorce.
And these statistics underscorea deep need that we become more
(02:36):
informed and compassionateaction within our church and
within our faith communities.
All right, so welcome to theWords for Change podcast.
I'm Lionel and today we're goingto tackle a complex subject.
And remember, hey, my goal isto help people who have
(02:58):
disconnected from the message ofJesus Christ or become
disconnected from church, toreconnect with Christ, leading
to social change.
And we're going to tackle thistopic today.
It is complex.
It deals with the intersectionsbetween really domestic
violence, uh, mental healthwhich is what, uh, you, you
(03:20):
heard in the clip from P Diddyand Christianity.
And what does the church, whatis this church having to say
about this?
So the problem is this theproblem is is that domestic
violence is not just physicalassault, it's emotional assault,
it encompasses emotional andpsychological issues, it
(03:44):
encompasses financial abuse aswell, and within Christian
communities, this is oftencompounded by misinterpretation
of scripture and a culture ofsilence, okay, where many
victims, many victims, suffer inisolation, believing that their
(04:07):
faith requires that they stayin abusive relationships,
believing that their faith isgoing to help deliver them from
these situations.
That's the problem that we'redealing with and that's the
complication that we hope toaddress in this episode.
(04:30):
So if we, if we looked at aChristian response because,
again, my, my job as a, as aperson of responsibility who has
an audience that listens myaudience Right, whether you have
been, is there some of you whoare listening that you may have
(04:52):
experienced abuse before, youmay have experienced
relationship abuse in your lifeand some people who are
listening to this, or you knowsomeone who has experienced a
tremendous amount of abuse inchurch or in life and we're
(05:12):
going to talk about the churchpiece in a minute but you may
have experienced a tremendousamount of abuse in life and
because of it you left thechurch and because of it you
left the church.
And so I want to set the recordstraight that what we're dealing
with here is a complicatedsituation that has tremendous
(05:36):
impact on how we viewrelationships in mental health,
how we relate.
What we're seeing here is thatthere's a misconception and
there's a problem with the wayof how we relate with men and
women, our understanding of howmen and women should relate to
(05:58):
each other in the church and inthe world, and I've seen this
happen more and more andincreasing over time, as men and
women have different, morecomplications with relating to
each other in respectable ways.
And let me just say thissleeping with somebody is not
(06:20):
the only way you relate to theopposite sex.
In other words, body is not theonly way you relate to the
opposite sex, in other words,that's a sexual contact is not
the only reason for relating tothe opposite sex.
You understand what I'm saying,okay, so I want to tackle this
subject today because it'simportant, it's in the news
everywhere and I want you tohear my perspective.
(06:44):
And I want you to hear, becauseyou know my, my point of view
on this and, as I'll be honestwith you, as I thought about who
a part of this podcast audiencelistens to, uh, is it has
experienced or is experiencingabuse, or has experienced abuse
(07:05):
before, and how are you dealingwith it?
How have you dealt with it?
Okay, so once again, I want topresent the problem to you, that
the problem is that domesticviolence is not just something
that happens with physical abuse, but it's financial, it's
(07:26):
emotional, it's psychological,and that within, within the
church, within Christiancommunities, because abuse
happens often in Christiancommunities and pastors will
cover it up or force people tostay in relationships that are
detrimental to their health andwell-being, simply because of
their view of scripture andinterpretation of scripture that
(07:50):
fosters a culture of silence.
Think about this aninterpretation of scripture that
fosters and holds on to aculture of violence and, as a
result, result, people suffer insilence, believing that all
they have to do is pray or allthey have to do is talk to the
(08:10):
pastor.
All they have to do is seek god, or all they have to do is be
quiet and go to the altar onsunday morning, and that, even
though it's important, is therequisite requirement for
deliverance from God, which isnot true.
That you don't have to havefaith, you don't have to
(08:33):
experience abuse to demonstratefaith in God.
Okay, now here's.
Here's what what the newTestament says.
The new Testament provides afoundation for how we can
address these issues right there.
There are many scripture versesin the bible that talks about
that, demonstrates how men andwomen relate to each other.
(08:56):
Now, even though abuse may notuh, uh, domestic abuse may not
be clearly stated in scripture,but there are scripture verses
that hint at how men and womenought to relate to each other.
And I and that's one of thereasons why I'm talking about
(09:16):
this today, because this is abiblical perspective that many
people find themselves inrelationships.
Think about, think about howmany people find themselves in
relationship, that they areexperiencing this kind of
violence.
So how, how can we deal withthis from a biblical perspective
(09:37):
?
How, how can justice andcompassion be demonstrated in
relationships, or how shouldjustice and compassion be
demonstrated in relationship?
Or how should justice andcompassion be demonstrated in
relationship so that we canbegin understanding how men and
women should relate to eachother in relationship and that
(09:57):
when you experience any form ofabuse in a church environment or
when you see abuse happeningwith church members or with
family members, you don't justhave to tell a person that it's
God's will for you to stay inthat situation and continue to
(10:20):
experience abuse.
Ephesians look at Ephesians 521calls us to submit to one
another with reverence forChrist.
So so when a person submits toto one another is talking about
as highlighting mutual respect,mutual love, not domination.
Jesus teaches, emphasizes love,right, respect and inherent
(10:46):
dignity for every individual,right, countering any
justifications for abuse.
So if we, if if we just take amoment to understand that some
scripture verses are not meantto be taken literally, meaning
that there are stories andinstances in the Bible that are
(11:12):
sometimes metaphoric, right when, when, for instance, when the
scripture talks about divorce,scripture talks about divorce,
jesus says that Moses did notallow divorce because men were
simply men, women wereconsidered property during their
time, and so, because womenwere considered property, men
(11:39):
would oftentimes divorce them atwill and whim.
So when Jesus talks about thebill of divorcement in the
gospels and saying that thisfrom the beginning it was not so
, but Moses allowed for divorce.
This is in the Gospels.
In Matthew he's not talkingabout there's never an occasion
for divorce.
What he's talking about in thattext is that men can't just put
(12:05):
women away whenever they'regood and ready to do such a
thing.
See, that's understanding thecontext of the of the scripture
verse, and some of you wholisten to me, you may feel
trapped because you believe thatthere are no circumstances by
which a person can becomedivorced, and this is the reason
why a lot of people will stayin abusive relationships.
(12:28):
Now we're going to talk aboutthis more in another topic, so I
want you, if you're watchingthis on youtube, I want you to
check out.
The next video should be put upright here, and we'll continue
to delve into this topic andrelationship even more.
So, the key point that we areaddressing here is that domestic
violence within Christiancommunity is a lie and it is a
(12:53):
problem because scripture isbeing interpreted and it's false
and misinterpreted.
That is, and because of it.
It is false in an environmentwhere victims feel that to seek
safety and to seek help could beproblematic, and it's crucial
(13:15):
to replace this harmfulpatriarchal normative with a
mutual respect, as it relates tohow men and women relate to
each other.
That's critically important aswell.
Now I want to show you somethingelse, because there is more,
y'all, there's more.
(13:37):
I remember years ago, I umactually, let me, let me just
say this, let me show you avideo, and this video If you're
watching it, you can see it.
If you're listening, you canhear the audio as well.
But it talks about the problemthat we're dealing with in my,
with abuse in church and whatwe're seeing from P Diddy,
(14:00):
listen.
It's not just happening in thesecular culture, diddy, listen
it.
It's not just happening in thesecular culture.
This is this what I'm saying.
It is initially a problem ofunderstanding how important many
people in the church will relyon their spirituality to solve
all problems, or going to churchor participating in a small
(14:23):
group that will solve all yourproblems.
Now, all of these things aregreat and all of these things
have that value.
What I'm saying is that thereare instances where people are
going and participating inreligious communities and
there's not an honestconversation about the
(14:44):
complicated relational issuesthat people are going through or
experiencing in these churcheswhen people are abusing women or
men are abusing their childrenand the church never talks about
it and the church leaves it outthere.
It's a problematic.
(15:04):
So education and awareness is acritical component that church
leadership must be trained torecognize the signs of abuse and
report it appropriately.
I remember years ago, when Iwas executive pastor of a church
, that we had a guy who was whohad, who had been convicted of
(15:32):
predatory behavior upon minors,and we we allowed that
individual to come to church,but we had to implement certain
measures in order to keep thatindividual away from other
children.
So it was a complicatedsituation but at the end of the
(15:55):
day, we were, we were in a placewhere we were, we appropriately
dealt with the situation andthen we let the church know what
the issue was and why we weredoing what we were doing, right,
so that people could seeksupport and feel safe in that
they didn't have to worry abouttheir children.
Right, you know, even even ifthis individual didn't want to
(16:18):
harm anyone in the community,right, but what we were trying
to communicate through ourleadership was that we as a
community were were supportingand spiritual support to those
(16:38):
who had experienced these kindsof abusive experiences.
Now I'm going to show you watchthis.
This is another video that'sgoing to help bring more clarity
to the situation.
Just listen here.
Now let me position this right,because I'm going to try to get
(16:59):
through this as soon aspossible, because it's actually
long.
We're not going to watch thewhole thing, but this is the
church I remember years ago,when I was a pastor in the
Dallas Fort Worth area.
I remember this being a topicthat we kept seeing churches
popping up in the newspaper, inthe local newspaper, about
pastors spanking women.
You heard that right, okay, soso check, so check this out.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
This was a report that was done as well and that's
where, in that room, um herapes me.
You know, um it wasn't sex,because I was a kid.
What?
Speaker 4 (17:39):
did Rush do to you as a family?
Speaker 3 (17:43):
It blew us all apart what he caused changed me
permanently.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
The sisters were in high school when they first met
Rush.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
So Mr Rush was my teacher.
He was starting a church and hewas looking for members.
He was always looking for themisfit If you didn't fit in.
He was trying to look for youto pull you in.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
They say they initially saw him as a father
figure who lavished them withattention they weren't getting
at home.
When Fields became pregnant bya classmate her junior year of
high school, Rush supported her.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
He was like you're going to be right here with me,
I'm going to take care of you.
He's like you need to come tomy church.
He told me that he would, youknow, take me under his wing.
So I just held on to him fordear life.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
The sisters now describe Rush's behavior as
grooming, that he gained theirtrust to manipulate and abuse
them.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
He was telling me that, you know, I needed to wear
clothes that were appropriatefor someone that's pregnant.
So he was like how to dress?
I remember him pulling my shirtup and saying you're not going
to be able to wear that bra.
You're going to get somematernity bras.
While he's asking me questionsabout them being tender, he
would be touching me around mynipples and then, you know,
pulling my pants open.
You're not going to be able towear those kind of panties.
You're going to have to getmaternity panties.
(19:00):
And I'm like, ok, and then hebought them.
He bought the things that Ineeded and so I would wear them.
And then he would check on meto see, you know, are you
comfortable, are you?
Speaker 4 (19:09):
OK, and do you feel at this point like he's still in
this position of power over you?
Yeah, well, well.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I just thought we were friends, and no man should
be a friend to a young girl likethat.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Now let me just say that this is the problem that we
have.
This is the issue that we'redealing with, that we are
dealing with churches andcongregations.
We're dealing with a cycle ofabuse that happens in the world.
(19:43):
What we saw, what we saw happenin with this whole PDD thing,
it's a part of the hip hopcommunity and, like I said when
the Me Too movement hit thehip-hop community, the hip-hop
community is in trouble and alsoit happens in churches and
(20:07):
there's some people who arelistening, who have been victims
of abuse in churches.
That's real talk, and so I wantyou to know that what you are
experiencing and we're going totalk about this in another video
(20:28):
in the future.
I'll get into this more, sojust continue to connect with us
.
But this is important and justjust to summarize what we talked
about, because I know thatthere are some people who are
listening to this and you mayhave left church because you
were abused, right, and my goalis to provide, not a solution,
(20:57):
but to say that there are peoplewho are aware and are listening
, and these kinds of issues will, these kind of truths will
continue to come out and peoplewill, voices will be heard.
So we we address several thingsthat in this, in this text
right, we've addressed thatdomestic violence within
christian community uh, lies inan incorrect interpretation of
(21:21):
scripture and it fosters anenvironment where victims feel
unsafe to seek help.
But we want people to feel safeto seek help and it's crucial
and critical for us to replaceharmful ways of relating, of how
men relate to women, how loveis represented, that it needs to
(21:43):
be something of mutuality anduh, that that the you relating
to the opposite sex, theopposite gender, is not for sex,
only for sexual purposes right.
That there are other ways ofrelating to people that are
outside of that.
And that part of our Christiancommitment is to be that of
(22:05):
having mutual respect and lovefor each other.
That exemplifies what Christwould want us to be.
As a matter of fact, even inmarriage relationships, the
Bible says treat your spouse asa fellow heir of the kingdom of
God that's in the epistles,meaning that that person has
dreams, goals and desires justlike you do, and your job is not
(22:27):
to dominate, and this is whatJesus talked about in the
gospels, is not to relate simplythrough domination but through
humility, and uh, humility andwith a sense of respect for the
other person Right.
So so our job is to create anenvironment where people can
(22:51):
relate to one another in very,very healthy ways ways.
Our job is to support people whoare seeking safety, encourage
people to seek professional help.
That you got people who arefrustrated because they've been
(23:12):
abused as a child and then, whenthey get it, they get called by
God when they become an adultand they've never dealt with
that abuse and then they beginacting out on other people in
private because they haven'tdealt with their own demons.
And I'm saying that sometimeswhat we need to do is that we
need to experience therapyourselves.
That that's as just as muchspiritual practice as reading
(23:34):
the Bible.
That getting professional helpis as much as a spiritual
obligation as reading scripture,rather than advising people to
remain in harmful situations.
Get the authorities involved.
See that as a gospelparticipatory project of helping
(23:55):
women who've been abused andmen who have been abused to get
networks of help.
The church can provide thenecessary emotional and
spiritual support for survivors,people who've been through
these things.
Okay, so you know I rememberyears ago, just once again.
You know I remember years ago,just once again, that there was
(24:20):
reports coming out about men whowere spanking women in the
church.
Think about that.
You heard me right Spankingwomen.
I'm not laughing because it'snot funny, because it is true it
is something that happened, butif this is what the gospel is
(24:44):
moving us to, then we're introuble.
So just to summarize here one Iwant us to understand what
we're talking about thatdomestic violence is a pervasive
issue in Christian communitiesand is often misunderstood and
(25:04):
it is often mishandled.
Number two the correctinterpretation of scripture
advocates for mutual respect,love and love, not submission
and the endurance of abuse forsome spiritual purpose, for some
spiritual purpose.
The education and training ofleaders is crucial to providing
(25:25):
the appropriate support forvictims of abuse and that
creating safe and supportivechurch communities and
environments can significantlyaid in the healing process for
survivors.
So, once again, if you knowsomeone who's experiencing
(25:46):
domestic violence, if you knowsomeone who is in this kind of
situation and they don't know away out, they don't know what to
do.
They don't have to stay in thatcircumstance, they don't have
to surf in silence.
Stay in that circumstance, theydon't have to surf in silence,
but help them to get the helpthat they need, to reach out, to
get the counseling and supportfactors around them and
(26:08):
encourage your people to go totherapy.
Promote church well-being byproviding a step-by-step
approaches and support forvictims and the perpetrators
right, providing accuratebiblical interpretation of texts
that can help create mutualrelationships between men and
(26:30):
females, men and women in thechurch, males and females, and
foster an environment whereeveryone feels safe and valued.
Females and foster anenvironment where everyone feels
safe and valued, giving peopleleadership roles and then not
requiring, but holding thisstandard that, no matter what
your gender is in the church,each person should be treated
(26:54):
with respect and love.
And so, once again, thinkingabout you, a listener, I want
you to know that, if you haveexperienced abuse and you have
disconnected from the church,you are exploring your faith,
and some of it has to do becauseyou have experienced abuse in
(27:15):
your past in church.
I want to encourage you thatthere are churches and there are
communities out there that willsurround you and provide the
proper support you need to helpyou regain faith in your
religious organization.
Yes, there are many churchesthat are not doing it right, but
(27:37):
there are some that are.
Yes, there are many churchesthat are not doing it right, but
there are some that are, and Idon't want you to give up, right
, because wherever you have ahuman institution, you're going
to have complications.
It doesn't excuse it at all,okay, it just says that this is
(28:02):
what we're trying to do isreconnect and understand that
Jesus is different from thechurch, but you still need a
community that you can be a partof, and there are some healthy
ones out there, okay, so, guys,listen, I appreciate your
patience.
I didn't want to do this, butthe more I thought about it, it
felt right, because there arepeople who are experiencing
(28:23):
abuse in churches and they'relistening to me.
It is my God-givenresponsibility to talk about
this subject matter, because itis an important subject matter
from a biblical perspective, andso down in the description,
(28:44):
you're watching this video.
Down in the description, I'llput a link to some resources
that, if you're experiencingabuse that you can get help with
, you can watch the next videoright here.
Actually, you can watch thenext video here.
If you're get help with, youcan watch the next video right
here.
Actually, you can watch thenext video here.
If you're listening to this,obviously, you can watch, you
can listen, but there'll belinks in the description for you
(29:07):
as well.
Okay, so thank you, guys forjoining this episode of Words to
Change podcast.
Hey, our goal is to continue tobring the truth and to help
people heal, to help peoplereconnect with the gospel of
Jesus Christ, and you as theaudience, uh, you are helping us
to do that and we really thankyou so much for your support.
(29:30):
Okay, so I want to encourageyou to stay strong.
Remember that nothing changesuntil you change first.
That change begins withawareness and action.
Okay, so, until next time I'msigning off again, nothing
changes until you change.
First.
That change begins withawareness and action.
Okay, so, until next time I'msigning off Again, make sure you
watch the next video right hereon YouTube, and I look forward
to seeing you guys in the nextvideo.
Salute and I'm out.
(29:52):
Thank you, you, thank you,thank you.
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