May 7, 2024 • 33 mins
Have you ever witnessed a moment that seemed to defy all explanation, one that could only be called a miracle? Pastor David Choctaw joins us to recount such moments, revealing the profound effects of healing prayer on lives around the globe. From the deeply personal to the widely influential, David's stories unveil the transformative power of reconnecting with faith. He takes us on an international journey, from teaching in Uganda to witnessing an entire community's response to the call of missionary work, demonstrating how a united purpose can heal and rebuild even the most broken places. #divinehealing # #miracles
Our conversation with David doesn't shy away from the intimate struggles that test our faith. He shares the emotional narrative of his wife's battle with FSH muscular dystrophy, and the miraculous turn their lives took after years of prayer and hope. This testament to unwavering belief sits at the heart of our discussion, embodying the episode's spirit of seeking solace in the divine. David's experience also poses a compelling question: where does the line blur between divine intervention and human perseverance in the face of illness?
Youtube & Podcast Description:
Our conversation with David doesn't shy away from the intimate struggles that test our faith. He shares the emotional narrative of his wife's battle with FSH muscular dystrophy, and the miraculous turn their lives took after years of prayer and hope. This testament to unwavering belief sits at the heart of our discussion, embodying the episode's spirit of seeking solace in the divine. David's experience also poses a compelling question: where does the line blur between divine intervention and human perseverance in the face of illness?
Youtube & Podcast Description:
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, welcome to the Words for Change podcast.
This is Lionel, your host.
I am super area and he's goingto enlighten us, encourage us
(00:27):
and give us perhaps a differentperspective about prayer that
we've never thought about before.
So I want you to lock in andengage, because we know that
nothing changes until you changefirst, and change comes through
you experiencing God in yourlife and experiencing all that
God has for you.
Boy, this is going to be agreat interview.
(00:48):
Grab your favorite cup ofcoffee and let's make this thing
happen.
Well, we're on the other sideand we have our special guest
(01:23):
today David Choctaw.
David, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm very well.
Thank you very much, and howabout yourself, lionel?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I'm doing good.
We had a faux pas in the verybeginning.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yes, we did.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yes, but our time was off.
But hey, I am excited that youhave joined the Words for Change
podcast, and I'm excitedbecause many of our guests, our
audience, are people who haveperhaps gone through some
spiritual disillusionment orbeen hurt by the church, and
they're in a transitory stage oflife, and so our job is to help
people reconnect with themessage of Jesus, to reconnect
(01:59):
with what Christ has said, doneand the mission that God has
given us in the world, so thatwe can come into the fullness of
what God has for us.
So would you do me a greatfavor and introduce yourself to
the people and tell everyoneabout all the wonderful things,
how God has blessed you, toempower people through your
(02:20):
writings and through yourservices that you offer.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
That's a lot to put into a two sentence introduction
I know I know, my name is DavidChotka.
I'm a Canadian, I live just.
I'm about 150 yards from theDetroit River, so on the other
side is Michigan.
So I'm the almost American, butnot quite.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
We'll forgive you.
We'll forgive you.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh, sure, sure, I've been a pastor since 1983 and
I've served five churches.
And, uh, I have been I'mactually the the past chair used
to be the chair, the past chairof alliance pray, and that's
the prayer equipping arm of thedomination.
I'm serving in christianmissionary alliance, and one of
the one of the anchordistinctives of the cma is that
we do believe that jesus is thehealer and that this is part and
(03:05):
parcel of the ordinary means ofwhat it is to obey the Lord and
to seek him and for the powerof the gospel to become real and
tangible in our lives.
And so I have been privilegedto be able to take part in
teaching that kind of teachingacross the planet.
I've so far spoken in 17countries, teaching across the
(03:27):
planet.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I've so far spoken in 17 countries.
Biggest crowd was 50,000.
Smallest was six 50,000 people.
How'd you feel?
Well, that was amazing.
So here's what happened.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So it's connected to the healing prayer book, so it
actually is a good way to tellthe story.
So my church partnered togetherwith two American congregations
there's one in Nyack, new York,and one down in Atlanta,
georgia and we made thecommitment to try and help
northern Uganda rebuild.
We met a bishop who was fromthere.
He had planted 48 churches.
Can you get that?
(03:54):
48 churches?
Anyway, it had been a war zone.
It was terrible.
The Idi Amin and Joseph Konywere the two guys who were
behind this awful thing, andKony in particular was an evil,
wicked, malicious, awful guy.
So I wound up going to the townof Arua in the north part of
Uganda, and every year theywould do a crusade.
(04:18):
And so the thing was, andthousands of people would say
yes to the claims of Christ.
So, as it turned out, I wasgiven an opportunity to speak on
that platform and there were 50000 people in the crowd.
And I'll just tell yousomething that was really kind
of carnal I gave an altar calland only 600 people responded
and I felt bad, only only only600.
(04:41):
Yeah right, only 600, oh manyou're just a bad preacher.
That's all I'll tell you becauseI was speaking in english and
the crowd spoke and I wastranslated, so the local guys
did a much better job at it thanI could, but regardless, it was
this great privilege and whatwe saw left, right and center
(05:02):
was miraculous, astonishingsigns and wonders and gifts of
healing and so on.
One of the most definingmoments of that was um and this
is not in my healing prayer book, but it's worth to tell um uh,
when I first went 2007, I was umunderneath the canopy in the
middle in the equatorial heat,because it's very hot there,
it's right on the equator, itgoes right through.
(05:23):
Of course, I'm not used to thatkind of heat, and so anybody
who was a guest was allowed tosit under that canopy.
And just a few feet away fromme there was a lady who was
paralyzed sitting on a dirtyboard.
I arrived there at 3, 4 o'clockin the afternoon and I looked at
this lady.
They would bring the very sickright to the front of this
(05:44):
crusade.
This lady.
They would bring the very sickright to the front of this
crusade and they would and we'retalking about pathetically, you
know terribly ill.
So I was only like 10, 15 feetfrom this lady and I watched a
fly crawl up her face and gointo her eye to get a drink, and
she couldn't even open or closeher eyes.
Her hands were stiff, her bodywas paralyzed and then the
(06:04):
service started.
And we're talking about you,know I hands were stiff, her
body was paralyzed and theservice started.
And we're talking about you,know I.
Don't know if you've been to anAfrican service.
It's easily four hours or fivehours.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
We've had African services.
Well, you know, there's not alot of departure from African
American, particularly Gospel,pentecostal style services.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
No same style.
Yep, yeah exactly Four hourshours ago and there's going to
be signs and wonders.
People are going to pray,they're going to worship,
they're going to dance and oh,by the way, when they dance it's
not sexual, it is entirelyfocused on their whole body
being involved in an encounterwith god.
So I mean this is happening onthe platform and I'm watching
this lady and she's not movingand her whole body.
(06:45):
I mean she were talking aboutparalyzed, stiff, with fingers,
like this, and her head at anangle while that fly crawled up.
So I mean it was so clear thiswas not a phony, this was not a
fake.
Anyway, the preacher's on theplatform and suddenly he says
this the healing anointing is onme.
And he stepped off the platformand he went down and he touched
(07:05):
that lady's hand and she wentback to the platform to finish
the service and that's all hedid.
There was no hype, there was nopush, there was no, you know,
there was no trying to get theadrenaline to rise.
And suddenly this lady's armsbegan to move.
And I'm watching this and I'vewatched her for three hours Now.
Just over from from me there wasa local lady by the name of
(07:26):
elizabeth queen.
Of course, we teased her bycalling her queen elizabeth, you
know, anyway, she had a radioprogram and she had.
She.
She had six radio stations thatshe broadcast on.
She was there for the crusade.
And she walks up to the ladywhose hands are starting to move
and she begins to gently rubthem and she places her hand on
the lady's head and starts topray and within five minutes
(07:48):
that lady, who'd been paralyzedfor hours, was on her feet and
now her arms were starting tomove.
And then her legs began to movelike she was walking with
stumps, and then she began towalk across the field like she
was a new, like a toddler, andthe next thing, you know, she
was completely restored and sheran across the field.
That happened in the course ofabout 15, 20 minutes, as I
(08:08):
watched there from underneaththis canopy and and really
determined very clearly.
The lady was very paralyzed andit was just astonishing to see
that began an acceleration ofthe healing prayer gift in my
own personal ministry, that thatmoment there.
So anyway, what happened wasthat we paid for these three
(08:28):
churches, lilburn Alliance inAtlanta and Risen King Alliance
in New York, and my church,spruce Grove Alliance, in Spruce
Grove, alberta.
The three of us partneredtogether to send teams of people
to teach the pastors and trainthem, because they had been in a
war zone for 20 years and therewas no education.
If you could read, you've donewell, you know.
(08:50):
So the person who could readthe book wound up becoming the
mayor or something because theycould.
They could do this kind ofthing, or they become the local
school teacher or something, butthey didn't have a lot.
So my church, svershka ofAlliance, made this commitment
to try and help people in NorthUganda and this boomerang effect
is what really set things intomotion.
I would go there to teach andlead.
(09:11):
In fact, the first book I wroteif I've got a copy of it here-
First book yes, I wrote this oneto give to them, to help them.
I wrote this to give to theUgandans.
It's called Power Praying.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Hold on the Power Praying, the Power Praying,
powerful Praying, wow, powerfulPraying.
What's that book about?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
David.
This book is a theologicalinvestigation into each key word
and phrase of Jesus' Lord'sPrayer, and so I was putting
that in the background andteaching the content.
That eventually became thisbook, and I gave this book to
the Ugandans.
But you know, here's the thing,there were 750 to a thousand
every year, 750 to a thousand.
(09:50):
And my church paid for theirmeals and paid for their
transport and paid for theirbooks and paid for their
education for four days once ayear for times three.
And so in year two, you knowwe'd spent half a million bucks,
right?
So my church said, you knowwe'd spent half a million bucks,
right?
So my church said, you know,and they really believe that
this is the right thing to do,we would take teams of people to
(10:12):
help build because some of theinfrastructure had been
destroyed.
And so some of the build teamsbuilt a library, they built a
school, they built a latrine,they built things that they
could use to train students andkids and as well as adults, and
we bought books for them and webought their meals and we got
them a place to stay and so onand so forth.
Anyways, a lot of money.
So my elders looked at me oneday and said, david, that's a
(10:36):
lot of money.
I said, yeah, it is.
So they said let's fly the guyin.
Church and church budgets, youknow, yeah, well, I know, but
that's still a lot of money,church or church budget or not.
So, they said let's fly the guyin.
So they flew him into my churchand here was the transformative
moment that changed my lifeforever.
So here's what this guy gets upin front of the congregation
(10:57):
and he's preaching and here'swhat happened.
We had three services in thosedays.
We had a Saturday night at 6o'clock or 7 o'clock at night,
then we had a Sunday morning at9 o'clock and we had another one
at 11.
And the Saturday night was thesmallest and the 9 o'clock was
what I call the conservativeservice, where everybody would
sort of show up, do the liturgyand get out.
The 11 o'clock was thePentecostal kind of thing.
(11:18):
We're going to wave our handsaround yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, anyway.
So the Saturday Nighters hearthis guy speaking about
deliverance from death, warstories when people were praying
and Kony was being defeated,and so we're talking major kind
of life and death scenariostories.
And they walk up to us, to meand the preacher, and they say
(11:39):
look, we're coming againtomorrow morning, tell different
stories.
So we both nodded our head, weright.
So they show.
So they text their friends,they call their friends, they,
you know, phone them on phone,and so the next morning what is
usually a medium-sizedcongregation is quite full right
, and so the saturday nighters,plus their friends, plus the
(11:59):
regular attenders for nineo'clock, were there.
And of course he does this onceagain.
He's telling these amazingdeliverance from death stories.
He's talking about how he'strying to rebuild North Uganda
Thank you for your partnershipand everybody's hanging on every
word.
And so the nine o'clockers stayaround for the 11 o'clock,
which is ordinarily a fullservice, and that full so that
full service is now oversized.
(12:21):
Now here's the thing thatcongregation could sit building
could seat about 450 comfortablyand we had an overflow and we
had, you know, speakers in thebackground and so on, and we had
easily 650 people in thatservice.
It was jammed to the raftersand, you know, there were people
standing up and down the walls,there were people sitting in
(12:41):
the aisles and I had to sit onthe steps where that kid's story
would be told.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
It sounds like a Billy Graham story, man oh man.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So so just in front of me is my wife.
Now she has been had beenafflicted with something called
muscular FSH muscular dystrophy.
Now it's in the news nowbecause the Lulu lemon founder
has the same affliction, and sohe has just given a hundred
million dollar donation to themuscular dystrophy association
(13:10):
in the united states to see if acure can be found for this
particular stream of musculardystrophy.
It's called fascioscapularhumular, and so it starts with
parent, with your face sagging,your muscles make it impossible
for you to to use your lips well, so you have trouble smiling,
you have trouble whistling, youcan't do that.
And then it goes down into yourshoulder blades.
Your shoulder blades pointupward, your shoulders get
(13:34):
rounded, you get scoliosis inthe spine.
You start having chronic painbetween 16 and 20.
You start to shuffle themuscles in your core, waste away
.
They don't regener, regenerate,and if you damage a muscle you
never get it back again.
You're dizzy between after 16or 17, lose your balance, fall
regularly, and so on.
So the lululemon guy just hadan article come out about a year
(13:55):
ago and he's shuffling with hisfeet and he can't walk, walk up
and downstairs because he hasto lift his leg to get on the
next step and so on.
You can't put your shouldersany higher than your arms,
higher than your shoulders,because you lose the ability for
your muscles to be able tomanage that.
And my wife had this, hermother had this, her sister had
this, her niece has this, and sogenetics yeah, that's right.
(14:17):
So anyway, I married the girlbecause hey, she's the first one
to laugh at my bad jokes,notice I said hey, at the end of
that sentence there's myCanadian showing up.
At any rate, I knew my futurewould be pushing a wheelchair.
I knew that and I didn't knowif we'd have kids.
You know, this is regardless ofthis.
(14:38):
It was the girl I loved and soon.
So we marry and we do have ason, but she gave birth to our
son, lost a lot of ground and soa lot of those muscles got just
weakened.
We adopted our daughter anyway.
The point is we have two kidsand we're doing our best and
she's.
It's a plateau, decline, disease.
So the way it works is you goalong at a particular level and
(15:00):
then suddenly you have acatastrophic loss.
Then your body adjusts and youplateau for a while.
Then you have a catastrophicloss.
Then your body adjusts and youplateau for a while, then you
have a catastrophic loss, etcetera, et cetera, until you
wind up first of all using canesand then using a walker and
then using a wheelchair, and ifyou damage a muscle you'll never
get it back.
You don't die young, but youdie in a wheelchair, without
mobility.
Anyway, here's the bottom line.
(15:20):
So we're in church and there'sthis amazing preacher who's
telling stories aboutdeliverance for death.
And you know how those storieswork.
Right, you tell the beginningof the story and you keep them
in suspense until the actionends.
So he's done that in twoservices and we're in the third
one and he's told the story, butwe haven't got to the
(15:40):
deliverance from death part.
And he stopped in the middle ofthe story and he looks at me
and he says David, david, whatis M?
A?
I said M a uh, master of arts,I don't know, right, right, no,
(16:08):
no, no, no, I got somethingterribly wrong.
And he puts his his hands inhis head.
Then he puts his head on thepulpit and he's silent, with his
crowd of 650 people waiting forthe end of the war story anyway
yeah.
And then he looks up and helooks down at me and he says
it's a wasting muscle disease.
It starts in your head and itmakes your face sag and it goes
down into your shoulders andmakes them round and then your
(16:31):
shoulder blades go out ofposition and you get curved
spine and then you get chronicpain between 16 and 20.
And he had no idea he wasgiving a perfect medical
description of my wife's FSHmuscular dystrophy.
And then he said this whoeverhas this, jesus has just healed
(16:52):
you.
Now I'm looking at my wife.
She's two rows out from whereI'm sitting and her arms have
been unable to get higher thanthis for decades.
And now her arms go above herhead for the first time in more
than 20 years.
And now her arms go above herhead for the first time in more
than 20 years while our friendsand family are looking on.
It was an.
All pain from her body vanishedand she began to grow muscle
(17:16):
tissue from that point forward.
Now here's what happened afterthat was done.
We had company who had comefrom out of town because they
were trying to determine if theyshould travel to be part of the
build project.
So we had guests in our house,right?
So after church is done, ofcourse everybody's amazed and in
awe and nobody wants to serviceday, nobody wants to move in a
(17:37):
minute yeah.
Yeah, oh, it was incredible.
But regardless of the serviceday, man and we had an evening
thing.
We were partying with anothercongregation in town and so an
evening thing.
We were partying with anothercongregation in town, and so the
evening thing was in the othercongregation up the street.
There was going to be Sundaynight, monday night, tuesday
night.
I had the first three days.
He had the second three days.
Anyway, we're at my home and mywife had asked me to get to the
(17:59):
top shelves to take down theheavy pots and pans that she
couldn't reach and ordinarily wewouldn't use, so she could make
the lunch for the company.
And as we, as I walk in, I'mgetting out the step to get up
in there and she pushes me outof the way as she stands on the
step and she pulls down theheavy pots and pans herself.
She's not done that in decadesand it's just this incredible
(18:20):
thing.
And actually two weeks later Ireally knew she was healed.
This is what the first part is.
The story is in my healingprayer book.
The second part is the one thatis not in the story.
So my son and my daughter weresitting at breakfast two weeks
later and my daughter is always,always, always, other, centered
, gentle, sweet and kind, andshe made the decision that she
(18:42):
was going to push every buttonthat my son had, every emotional
trigger, every mistake he evermade.
She's naming these crazy thingsto him and he's doing his best
to be a valiant, kind lad, youknow.
But he was on the verge oflosing it and I was just about
to discipline our daughter whensuddenly my wife stood up and
(19:05):
she said Jessica Chotka, that'senough.
And she stomped her foot andshe grabbed my daughter by the
hand and she ran her up thestairs and got into the bedroom
and knelt down beside the bedand made her pick up all of her
toys and make her bed, brush herteeth in the bathroom, got her
to brush her teeth, ran her downthe stairs, got her in the van,
drove her to school.
We were so mad.
(19:30):
It took us hours to realize sheran up the stairs.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, you know she had not run up any stairs.
Wow.
Now our doctor had known us forfive years.
He waited three more and thenhe wrote the doctor's note
saying there's no trace of FSHmuscular dystrophy in this
woman's body.
It's gone.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Wow, what a story.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Well, it's the most, but you know it started off.
There was a theologicalprinciple under this.
We had prayed for years for mywife to be healed.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Now hold on, hold on, david.
So before you do that, beforeyou do that, because I want to
make sure our audience isfollowing you, okay?
So your wife had been diagnosedwith MA.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
MS.
Sorry, md.
Fsh MD yes.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yes, so she's now in a prayer service.
You're traveling, preaching,doing some great things over on
the continent of Africa, and agentleman, a pastor, missionary,
whomever prophesies rightliterally to you what your wife
is experiencing.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, while I'm watching.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
And while you're watching this, and then she is
healed.
But then the confirmation comesthat she's healed.
God shows up in the mostmiraculous ways.
So she's healed and it's beenin this, confirmed when she's
angry and disciplined.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I can send you the doctor's note.
I can.
And the power of the story isthat we were known by that
church for fully five years.
The doctor knew my family forfully five years, and so they
saw the before, they saw thedecline and then they saw the
instant heal.
And so this was not done withsome stranger who's making a
(21:28):
claim.
This happened in front of peoplewith whom we have a life.
We have been living with them,working with them, worshiping
with them.
I've been their pastor, I'vebeen their leader.
Some of them had traveled withme to africa, some of them had
been a mission ship beyond thatone with me to other people, et
cetera.
So this was not something thathappened in a corner.
It was something that happened,and it was by the invitation of
(21:50):
the elder board of that churchthat this man came to my church
at all.
So all of this was my—andactually I can't tell you the
number of times we prayed for mywife's healing and it didn't
happen.
And we made a decision and thisis an important theological
principle we made a decision toseek the healer, not to seek the
(22:11):
healing.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So, so, so, David, let me, let me, let me jump in
here real quick.
So how did you get you know Tothis, this point of where you,
you are writing, you areinfluencing people, you are
preaching, you are doing?
I mean, this is out of theworld stuff.
So I think now every, everyeveryone listening is thinking
(22:36):
this guy is the real deal, buthe's talking about it's not that
I'm doing this.
What I'm interested.
What I'm interested, david, ishow did you get here?
Tell me about the hard part,tell me about I want to know and
what got you to this place.
What hard system strugglebefore you became the writer,
(22:58):
the preacher, the speaker, theleader in this area?
Tell me about that.
Well, actually it starts withmy conversion.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So let me tell you how that whole thing happens.
So my mom and my dad did notattend churches anywhere and we
went, you know, we got guiltedinto Christmas and Easter, right
, you call that the C&E crowd.
Right, there was a pastor whoused to visit my parents' diner.
My parents run a diner and hewould visit all the time and he
would show up and nod his headand be kind, and anybody in
(23:26):
trouble they could call him,he'd show up.
And so they always felt thissense of moral obligation to
show up twice a year.
But I mean, there wasn't aBible in the house, you know,
and and actually I'll just beblunt with you in the background
, my dad had a sit.
My dad suffered much.
He was kicked by a horse whenhe was six, broke his jaw, he
lost most of his eyesight and helost the muscles in his face to
(23:48):
be able to turn his eyes.
He'd have to turn his head tobe able to change the direction
of his eyes.
He could only focus straightahead.
And then he suffered becausepeople took advantage of him,
because he had Coke bottle,thick glasses, had a grade three
education, because he couldn'tgo to school to see the
chalkboard at the front kind ofthing.
Ukrainian immigrants to ruralmanitoba, saskatchewan.
That's the background.
And so they didn't have a lot.
(24:10):
They worked very hard.
Uh, even lower, lower workingclass would have been rich to
them.
You know, I'm saying just uh,they didn't have much.
Anyway, when they met each otherin toronto, they got married.
They started to raise theirfamily in St Catherine's,
ontario, just north of NiagaraFalls, is where I grew up.
Anyway, honest, hardworkingfolk, but no faith, and I'd
heard Jesus name when dad cuthis toe or something.
(24:31):
Anyway, my dad had had a sisterwho saved his life.
So here's what happened when hewas kicked by that horse, his
parents put him in a bed.
They didn't know how to helphim.
His sister, who he was, the hewas number 14 to 14 and so his
one of his older sisters camehome to visit, saw him into bed,
(24:53):
got him to a hospital, savedhis life.
She subsequently marriedsomeone who opened a strip joint
and my dad was a bouncer in thestrip joint.
Wow, and my early childhoodexperiences I had to decorate
the christmas tree in the stripjoint.
I mean, this is this is thekind of background I had.
Now there was a mini revival inthe high school I was in all
(25:16):
right.
My dad broke away from thatbackground, founded the diners,
called albert snack bar.
His name was albert for for ahamburg, that's a treat.
Albert's is the place to eat.
That used to be.
That was the line.
Anyway, we had five apartmentsattached to that and this is not
disconnected to the rest ofthis.
So there was a mini revival atthe St Catherine's Collegiate.
(25:36):
In fact it even made the localnewspaper Jesus Freaks Invade
the St Catherine's Collegiate.
Anyway, there was a bunch of.
I was in the drama guild, ifyou can imagine me doing drama.
Anyway, there's some drama andand in the drama I can see that
yeah, there was about 35, 40 butdepending on what play was
being done and that kind ofthing.
(25:56):
I used to like that kind ofthing and I was a student of
shakespeare and modern stuff andthat you know I used to read
plays and do them and that kindof thing and my brother Tim was
also there.
Anyway, the point was a bunch ofpeople got saved for this
little mini revival.
That happened this way One daya Mennonite kid brought his
Bible to school because hedidn't get his Bible reading
done in the morning.
He brought it out at lunch todo his reading and somebody
(26:19):
walked up and said what you doin reading that book?
You trying to understandShakespeare or something?
And he said no, no, no, no, no,I read it because I believe it.
And they said what do youbelieve?
And he told them and a bunch ofthem became believers and then
they formed this littleassociation, the Interschool
Christian Fellowship, and anumber of them were people who
were in the drama guild and Igot to watch this drama guild
(26:45):
and I got to watch this and inthe course of time, um, I would
get angry.
When they talked about jesusblood or jesus uh, uh, face,
that kind of thing get angry.
One day I was walking down thehallway and there was this girl
named joanne who was at herlocker singing about how she
loved the blood of jesus andsuddenly anger rose up inside of
me and I wanted to grab her andthrow her up against the locker
and command her to stop sayingthat.
(27:05):
But I stopped myself, realizedI was in trouble, something was
wrong.
Anyway, that same girl,together with a couple others,
invited me to go and hear anEnglish Methodist preacher.
And he came in to our town andit was in an oversized living
room with a bunch of people fromthe high school.
And the guy looked at me when Iwalked in and I was going there
(27:31):
out of curiosity and, I think,to mock, and he looked at me and
he said in the name of Jesus,you will be still, you will say
nothing until I preach thegospel.
And I couldn't.
I was in your chair, I couldn'tmove, and and and there was
this two things like curiosityand revulsion.
You know now, this guy was amasterful preacher.
He was short, five foot two orthree, sweat profusely.
(27:52):
So you saw the sweat comingdown his arm.
His glasses would go down hisnose as he looked at you and
he'd look at you like this andhe'd say glory, hallelujah, have
you got jesus in your flesh?
Glory, that's, that's the wayhe talked anyway.
So he preaches the sermon, andit was.
(28:15):
It was a sermon called themarks of the new birth and we're
talking 10 to 12 years later.
I read john wesley's writingsand in John Wesley's writings
there were standard sermons forpreachers to use and that was
one of them and it was JohnWesley's outline.
But regardless of this, hetalks about the power of the
Spirit to transform the believerand then he says if you want
(28:36):
Jesus in your flesh glory, comeforward and I shall pray for you
.
And I leaped out of my chair.
I was at the front, and he saidno, no, not now.
When I finished my sermon hesaid there, I was at the front,
and eventually about 15 peoplegathered around the front, about
15.
And uh, and I knew a good halfof them, right, cause they were
from school and that kind ofthing.
(28:57):
Anyway, I knew the first girlhe started to pray with and she
was a broken girl and everybodyin the room knew that she'd had
some terrible experiences inlife.
So he goes up to her and hesaid tell Jesus you love him.
And she tried, but it was veryclear that it was broken and
forced, and you know.
(29:17):
And he said may I pray for you?
And she said yes, he put hishands on her head and this
happened to me and this was thebeginning.
As I watched he shone and theshining that was all around him
was glorious.
What do you mean?
he shone I mean I saw in thespirit realm.
You know in the Bible oh yeah,solitarsis saw Jesus before he
(29:39):
got saved.
My heavens, balaam donkey sawthe angel.
So I saw in the spirit realm.
He was shining and she was dark.
And then he starts to pray andthat beautiful light that was in
him starts to go right insidethis girl that I knew.
And then he said now tell Jesusyou love him.
(30:01):
And she did, and it wasbeautiful, and he went to this
girl beside her, starts to praywith her.
Same thing happens to her andhe comes all the way around the
circle to me and it was 15people later.
Right, that was the first oneup.
I think that's why he waited tothe end.
Anyway, he doesn't.
(30:21):
I was expecting him to doexactly as he'd done with the
first one and instead he pointedhis finger in my belly and he
said get out.
I thought, get out, what's this?
And I looked down and hisshining hand was pulsating with
glorious light and there was aninky, cloudy black mass around
the center of my being.
And then his hand began to riseand he said out of that young
man, out, you go, out, you go.
Out of the young man, out yougo.
And I looked down as this blackmisty cloud was rising.
It looked down as this blackmisty cloud was rising, it got
(30:45):
to my chin and then that blackcloud flew out of my mouth, went
straight through the wall andthen I could say Jesus name.
And that was my first second asa believer in Jesus of Nazareth
, my first second.
So I learned in that experiencethat Jesus is more powerful
than the demons.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Right, so so.
David tell us about, tell usabout the struggles Well.
So we learned a lot from ourstory for David.
What a fantastic episode, whata fantastic interview we had
with David Chakta, and I lookforward to having a part two of
this interview.
But just to recap of what welearned today, we've learned
that we can.
(31:31):
We all have life experiences.
We all have things that we gothrough, circumstances that we
experience that can, that canmake us debilitated.
We all have circumstances andexperiences that can debilitate
us, but if we have faith and wehold on to God, even as we go
through doubt, fear anddisbelief, that we can see the
miraculous happen in our life.
So if you're struggling andyou're trying to figure out, do
I even believe that God is a Godthat can heal, or do I believe
(31:54):
that God can touch in a diseaseand person who who is has been
experiencing physical ailmentfor many, many years?
Can I even trust that God cando that?
Yes, you can, and David'stestimony and David's story is
an example of what God can dofor you and for those in your
(32:16):
life.
If you're going through aphysical struggle right now and
it's causing you to doubt yourfaith, it's causing you to doubt
God.
It's causing you to doubt yourfaith.
It's causing you to doubt God.
It's causing you to believe.
I want to encourage you,through David's story, to look
at what God can do.
Sometimes we can explain it,but sometimes we cannot.
Sometimes God will heal usmiraculously.
(32:37):
Sometimes God will heal us, asDavid says, naturally by going
to your doctor and letting yourdoctor work with you over the
years and over time until youexperience healing.
And I just want to encourageyou to keep your faith.
Hang in there and watch God dothe miraculous Peace and
(32:58):
remember nothing changed untilyou change.
First we're out.
Well, welcome to the Words for Change podcast.
This is Lionel, your host.
I am super area and he's goingto enlighten us, encourage us
(00:27):
and give us perhaps a differentperspective about prayer that
we've never thought about before.
So I want you to lock in andengage, because we know that
nothing changes until you changefirst, and change comes through
you experiencing God in yourlife and experiencing all that
God has for you.
Boy, this is going to be agreat interview.
(00:48):
Grab your favorite cup ofcoffee and let's make this thing
happen.
Well, we're on the other sideand we have our special guest
(01:23):
today David Choctaw.
David, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I'm very well.
Thank you very much, and howabout yourself, lionel?
Speaker 1 (01:31):
I'm doing good.
We had a faux pas in the verybeginning.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yes, we did.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yes, but our time was off.
But hey, I am excited that youhave joined the Words for Change
podcast, and I'm excitedbecause many of our guests, our
audience, are people who haveperhaps gone through some
spiritual disillusionment orbeen hurt by the church, and
they're in a transitory stage oflife, and so our job is to help
people reconnect with themessage of Jesus, to reconnect
(01:59):
with what Christ has said, doneand the mission that God has
given us in the world, so thatwe can come into the fullness of
what God has for us.
So would you do me a greatfavor and introduce yourself to
the people and tell everyoneabout all the wonderful things,
how God has blessed you, toempower people through your
(02:20):
writings and through yourservices that you offer.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
That's a lot to put into a two sentence introduction
I know I know, my name is DavidChotka.
I'm a Canadian, I live just.
I'm about 150 yards from theDetroit River, so on the other
side is Michigan.
So I'm the almost American, butnot quite.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
We'll forgive you.
We'll forgive you.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh, sure, sure, I've been a pastor since 1983 and
I've served five churches.
And, uh, I have been I'mactually the the past chair used
to be the chair, the past chairof alliance pray, and that's
the prayer equipping arm of thedomination.
I'm serving in christianmissionary alliance, and one of
the one of the anchordistinctives of the cma is that
we do believe that jesus is thehealer and that this is part and
(03:05):
parcel of the ordinary means ofwhat it is to obey the Lord and
to seek him and for the powerof the gospel to become real and
tangible in our lives.
And so I have been privilegedto be able to take part in
teaching that kind of teachingacross the planet.
I've so far spoken in 17countries, teaching across the
(03:27):
planet.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I've so far spoken in 17 countries.
Biggest crowd was 50,000.
Smallest was six 50,000 people.
How'd you feel?
Well, that was amazing.
So here's what happened.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So it's connected to the healing prayer book, so it
actually is a good way to tellthe story.
So my church partnered togetherwith two American congregations
there's one in Nyack, new York,and one down in Atlanta,
georgia and we made thecommitment to try and help
northern Uganda rebuild.
We met a bishop who was fromthere.
He had planted 48 churches.
Can you get that?
(03:54):
48 churches?
Anyway, it had been a war zone.
It was terrible.
The Idi Amin and Joseph Konywere the two guys who were
behind this awful thing, andKony in particular was an evil,
wicked, malicious, awful guy.
So I wound up going to the townof Arua in the north part of
Uganda, and every year theywould do a crusade.
(04:18):
And so the thing was, andthousands of people would say
yes to the claims of Christ.
So, as it turned out, I wasgiven an opportunity to speak on
that platform and there were 50000 people in the crowd.
And I'll just tell yousomething that was really kind
of carnal I gave an altar calland only 600 people responded
and I felt bad, only only only600.
(04:41):
Yeah right, only 600, oh manyou're just a bad preacher.
That's all I'll tell you becauseI was speaking in english and
the crowd spoke and I wastranslated, so the local guys
did a much better job at it thanI could, but regardless, it was
this great privilege and whatwe saw left, right and center
(05:02):
was miraculous, astonishingsigns and wonders and gifts of
healing and so on.
One of the most definingmoments of that was um and this
is not in my healing prayer book, but it's worth to tell um uh,
when I first went 2007, I was umunderneath the canopy in the
middle in the equatorial heat,because it's very hot there,
it's right on the equator, itgoes right through.
(05:23):
Of course, I'm not used to thatkind of heat, and so anybody
who was a guest was allowed tosit under that canopy.
And just a few feet away fromme there was a lady who was
paralyzed sitting on a dirtyboard.
I arrived there at 3, 4 o'clockin the afternoon and I looked at
this lady.
They would bring the very sickright to the front of this
(05:44):
crusade.
This lady.
They would bring the very sickright to the front of this
crusade and they would and we'retalking about pathetically, you
know terribly ill.
So I was only like 10, 15 feetfrom this lady and I watched a
fly crawl up her face and gointo her eye to get a drink, and
she couldn't even open or closeher eyes.
Her hands were stiff, her bodywas paralyzed and then the
(06:04):
service started.
And we're talking about you,know I hands were stiff, her
body was paralyzed and theservice started.
And we're talking about you,know I.
Don't know if you've been to anAfrican service.
It's easily four hours or fivehours.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
We've had African services.
Well, you know, there's not alot of departure from African
American, particularly Gospel,pentecostal style services.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
No same style.
Yep, yeah exactly Four hourshours ago and there's going to
be signs and wonders.
People are going to pray,they're going to worship,
they're going to dance and oh,by the way, when they dance it's
not sexual, it is entirelyfocused on their whole body
being involved in an encounterwith god.
So I mean this is happening onthe platform and I'm watching
this lady and she's not movingand her whole body.
(06:45):
I mean she were talking aboutparalyzed, stiff, with fingers,
like this, and her head at anangle while that fly crawled up.
So I mean it was so clear thiswas not a phony, this was not a
fake.
Anyway, the preacher's on theplatform and suddenly he says
this the healing anointing is onme.
And he stepped off the platformand he went down and he touched
(07:05):
that lady's hand and she wentback to the platform to finish
the service and that's all hedid.
There was no hype, there was nopush, there was no, you know,
there was no trying to get theadrenaline to rise.
And suddenly this lady's armsbegan to move.
And I'm watching this and I'vewatched her for three hours Now.
Just over from from me there wasa local lady by the name of
(07:26):
elizabeth queen.
Of course, we teased her bycalling her queen elizabeth, you
know, anyway, she had a radioprogram and she had.
She.
She had six radio stations thatshe broadcast on.
She was there for the crusade.
And she walks up to the ladywhose hands are starting to move
and she begins to gently rubthem and she places her hand on
the lady's head and starts topray and within five minutes
(07:48):
that lady, who'd been paralyzedfor hours, was on her feet and
now her arms were starting tomove.
And then her legs began to movelike she was walking with
stumps, and then she began towalk across the field like she
was a new, like a toddler, andthe next thing, you know, she
was completely restored and sheran across the field.
That happened in the course ofabout 15, 20 minutes, as I
(08:08):
watched there from underneaththis canopy and and really
determined very clearly.
The lady was very paralyzed andit was just astonishing to see
that began an acceleration ofthe healing prayer gift in my
own personal ministry, that thatmoment there.
So anyway, what happened wasthat we paid for these three
(08:28):
churches, lilburn Alliance inAtlanta and Risen King Alliance
in New York, and my church,spruce Grove Alliance, in Spruce
Grove, alberta.
The three of us partneredtogether to send teams of people
to teach the pastors and trainthem, because they had been in a
war zone for 20 years and therewas no education.
If you could read, you've donewell, you know.
(08:50):
So the person who could readthe book wound up becoming the
mayor or something because theycould.
They could do this kind ofthing, or they become the local
school teacher or something, butthey didn't have a lot.
So my church, svershka ofAlliance, made this commitment
to try and help people in NorthUganda and this boomerang effect
is what really set things intomotion.
I would go there to teach andlead.
(09:11):
In fact, the first book I wroteif I've got a copy of it here-
First book yes, I wrote this oneto give to them, to help them.
I wrote this to give to theUgandans.
It's called Power Praying.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Hold on the Power Praying, the Power Praying,
powerful Praying, wow, powerfulPraying.
What's that book about?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
David.
This book is a theologicalinvestigation into each key word
and phrase of Jesus' Lord'sPrayer, and so I was putting
that in the background andteaching the content.
That eventually became thisbook, and I gave this book to
the Ugandans.
But you know, here's the thing,there were 750 to a thousand
every year, 750 to a thousand.
(09:50):
And my church paid for theirmeals and paid for their
transport and paid for theirbooks and paid for their
education for four days once ayear for times three.
And so in year two, you knowwe'd spent half a million bucks,
right?
So my church said, you knowwe'd spent half a million bucks,
right?
So my church said, you know,and they really believe that
this is the right thing to do,we would take teams of people to
(10:12):
help build because some of theinfrastructure had been
destroyed.
And so some of the build teamsbuilt a library, they built a
school, they built a latrine,they built things that they
could use to train students andkids and as well as adults, and
we bought books for them and webought their meals and we got
them a place to stay and so onand so forth.
Anyways, a lot of money.
So my elders looked at me oneday and said, david, that's a
(10:36):
lot of money.
I said, yeah, it is.
So they said let's fly the guyin.
Church and church budgets, youknow, yeah, well, I know, but
that's still a lot of money,church or church budget or not.
So, they said let's fly the guyin.
So they flew him into my churchand here was the transformative
moment that changed my lifeforever.
So here's what this guy gets upin front of the congregation
(10:57):
and he's preaching and here'swhat happened.
We had three services in thosedays.
We had a Saturday night at 6o'clock or 7 o'clock at night,
then we had a Sunday morning at9 o'clock and we had another one
at 11.
And the Saturday night was thesmallest and the 9 o'clock was
what I call the conservativeservice, where everybody would
sort of show up, do the liturgyand get out.
The 11 o'clock was thePentecostal kind of thing.
(11:18):
We're going to wave our handsaround yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, anyway.
So the Saturday Nighters hearthis guy speaking about
deliverance from death, warstories when people were praying
and Kony was being defeated,and so we're talking major kind
of life and death scenariostories.
And they walk up to us, to meand the preacher, and they say
(11:39):
look, we're coming againtomorrow morning, tell different
stories.
So we both nodded our head, weright.
So they show.
So they text their friends,they call their friends, they,
you know, phone them on phone,and so the next morning what is
usually a medium-sizedcongregation is quite full right
, and so the saturday nighters,plus their friends, plus the
(11:59):
regular attenders for nineo'clock, were there.
And of course he does this onceagain.
He's telling these amazingdeliverance from death stories.
He's talking about how he'strying to rebuild North Uganda
Thank you for your partnershipand everybody's hanging on every
word.
And so the nine o'clockers stayaround for the 11 o'clock,
which is ordinarily a fullservice, and that full so that
full service is now oversized.
(12:21):
Now here's the thing thatcongregation could sit building
could seat about 450 comfortablyand we had an overflow and we
had, you know, speakers in thebackground and so on, and we had
easily 650 people in thatservice.
It was jammed to the raftersand, you know, there were people
standing up and down the walls,there were people sitting in
(12:41):
the aisles and I had to sit onthe steps where that kid's story
would be told.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
It sounds like a Billy Graham story, man oh man.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
So so just in front of me is my wife.
Now she has been had beenafflicted with something called
muscular FSH muscular dystrophy.
Now it's in the news nowbecause the Lulu lemon founder
has the same affliction, and sohe has just given a hundred
million dollar donation to themuscular dystrophy association
(13:10):
in the united states to see if acure can be found for this
particular stream of musculardystrophy.
It's called fascioscapularhumular, and so it starts with
parent, with your face sagging,your muscles make it impossible
for you to to use your lips well, so you have trouble smiling,
you have trouble whistling, youcan't do that.
And then it goes down into yourshoulder blades.
Your shoulder blades pointupward, your shoulders get
(13:34):
rounded, you get scoliosis inthe spine.
You start having chronic painbetween 16 and 20.
You start to shuffle themuscles in your core, waste away
.
They don't regener, regenerate,and if you damage a muscle you
never get it back again.
You're dizzy between after 16or 17, lose your balance, fall
regularly, and so on.
So the lululemon guy just hadan article come out about a year
(13:55):
ago and he's shuffling with hisfeet and he can't walk, walk up
and downstairs because he hasto lift his leg to get on the
next step and so on.
You can't put your shouldersany higher than your arms,
higher than your shoulders,because you lose the ability for
your muscles to be able tomanage that.
And my wife had this, hermother had this, her sister had
this, her niece has this, and sogenetics yeah, that's right.
(14:17):
So anyway, I married the girlbecause hey, she's the first one
to laugh at my bad jokes,notice I said hey, at the end of
that sentence there's myCanadian showing up.
At any rate, I knew my futurewould be pushing a wheelchair.
I knew that and I didn't knowif we'd have kids.
You know, this is regardless ofthis.
(14:38):
It was the girl I loved and soon.
So we marry and we do have ason, but she gave birth to our
son, lost a lot of ground and soa lot of those muscles got just
weakened.
We adopted our daughter anyway.
The point is we have two kidsand we're doing our best and
she's.
It's a plateau, decline, disease.
So the way it works is you goalong at a particular level and
(15:00):
then suddenly you have acatastrophic loss.
Then your body adjusts and youplateau for a while.
Then you have a catastrophicloss.
Then your body adjusts and youplateau for a while, then you
have a catastrophic loss, etcetera, et cetera, until you
wind up first of all using canesand then using a walker and
then using a wheelchair, and ifyou damage a muscle you'll never
get it back.
You don't die young, but youdie in a wheelchair, without
mobility.
Anyway, here's the bottom line.
(15:20):
So we're in church and there'sthis amazing preacher who's
telling stories aboutdeliverance for death.
And you know how those storieswork.
Right, you tell the beginningof the story and you keep them
in suspense until the actionends.
So he's done that in twoservices and we're in the third
one and he's told the story, butwe haven't got to the
(15:40):
deliverance from death part.
And he stopped in the middle ofthe story and he looks at me
and he says David, david, whatis M?
A?
I said M a uh, master of arts,I don't know, right, right, no,
(16:08):
no, no, no, I got somethingterribly wrong.
And he puts his his hands inhis head.
Then he puts his head on thepulpit and he's silent, with his
crowd of 650 people waiting forthe end of the war story anyway
yeah.
And then he looks up and helooks down at me and he says
it's a wasting muscle disease.
It starts in your head and itmakes your face sag and it goes
down into your shoulders andmakes them round and then your
(16:31):
shoulder blades go out ofposition and you get curved
spine and then you get chronicpain between 16 and 20.
And he had no idea he wasgiving a perfect medical
description of my wife's FSHmuscular dystrophy.
And then he said this whoeverhas this, jesus has just healed
(16:52):
you.
Now I'm looking at my wife.
She's two rows out from whereI'm sitting and her arms have
been unable to get higher thanthis for decades.
And now her arms go above herhead for the first time in more
than 20 years.
And now her arms go above herhead for the first time in more
than 20 years while our friendsand family are looking on.
It was an.
All pain from her body vanishedand she began to grow muscle
(17:16):
tissue from that point forward.
Now here's what happened afterthat was done.
We had company who had comefrom out of town because they
were trying to determine if theyshould travel to be part of the
build project.
So we had guests in our house,right?
So after church is done, ofcourse everybody's amazed and in
awe and nobody wants to serviceday, nobody wants to move in a
(17:37):
minute yeah.
Yeah, oh, it was incredible.
But regardless of the serviceday, man and we had an evening
thing.
We were partying with anothercongregation in town and so an
evening thing.
We were partying with anothercongregation in town, and so the
evening thing was in the othercongregation up the street.
There was going to be Sundaynight, monday night, tuesday
night.
I had the first three days.
He had the second three days.
Anyway, we're at my home and mywife had asked me to get to the
(17:59):
top shelves to take down theheavy pots and pans that she
couldn't reach and ordinarily wewouldn't use, so she could make
the lunch for the company.
And as we, as I walk in, I'mgetting out the step to get up
in there and she pushes me outof the way as she stands on the
step and she pulls down theheavy pots and pans herself.
She's not done that in decadesand it's just this incredible
(18:20):
thing.
And actually two weeks later Ireally knew she was healed.
This is what the first part is.
The story is in my healingprayer book.
The second part is the one thatis not in the story.
So my son and my daughter weresitting at breakfast two weeks
later and my daughter is always,always, always, other, centered
, gentle, sweet and kind, andshe made the decision that she
(18:42):
was going to push every buttonthat my son had, every emotional
trigger, every mistake he evermade.
She's naming these crazy thingsto him and he's doing his best
to be a valiant, kind lad, youknow.
But he was on the verge oflosing it and I was just about
to discipline our daughter whensuddenly my wife stood up and
(19:05):
she said Jessica Chotka, that'senough.
And she stomped her foot andshe grabbed my daughter by the
hand and she ran her up thestairs and got into the bedroom
and knelt down beside the bedand made her pick up all of her
toys and make her bed, brush herteeth in the bathroom, got her
to brush her teeth, ran her downthe stairs, got her in the van,
drove her to school.
We were so mad.
(19:30):
It took us hours to realize sheran up the stairs.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Right, right.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Yeah, you know she had not run up any stairs.
Wow.
Now our doctor had known us forfive years.
He waited three more and thenhe wrote the doctor's note
saying there's no trace of FSHmuscular dystrophy in this
woman's body.
It's gone.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Wow, what a story.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Well, it's the most, but you know it started off.
There was a theologicalprinciple under this.
We had prayed for years for mywife to be healed.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Now hold on, hold on, david.
So before you do that, beforeyou do that, because I want to
make sure our audience isfollowing you, okay?
So your wife had been diagnosedwith MA.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
MS.
Sorry, md.
Fsh MD yes.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yes, so she's now in a prayer service.
You're traveling, preaching,doing some great things over on
the continent of Africa, and agentleman, a pastor, missionary,
whomever prophesies rightliterally to you what your wife
is experiencing.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, while I'm watching.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
And while you're watching this, and then she is
healed.
But then the confirmation comesthat she's healed.
God shows up in the mostmiraculous ways.
So she's healed and it's beenin this, confirmed when she's
angry and disciplined.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
I can send you the doctor's note.
I can.
And the power of the story isthat we were known by that
church for fully five years.
The doctor knew my family forfully five years, and so they
saw the before, they saw thedecline and then they saw the
instant heal.
And so this was not done withsome stranger who's making a
(21:28):
claim.
This happened in front of peoplewith whom we have a life.
We have been living with them,working with them, worshiping
with them.
I've been their pastor, I'vebeen their leader.
Some of them had traveled withme to africa, some of them had
been a mission ship beyond thatone with me to other people, et
cetera.
So this was not something thathappened in a corner.
It was something that happened,and it was by the invitation of
(21:50):
the elder board of that churchthat this man came to my church
at all.
So all of this was my—andactually I can't tell you the
number of times we prayed for mywife's healing and it didn't
happen.
And we made a decision and thisis an important theological
principle we made a decision toseek the healer, not to seek the
(22:11):
healing.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So, so, so, David, let me, let me, let me jump in
here real quick.
So how did you get you know Tothis, this point of where you,
you are writing, you areinfluencing people, you are
preaching, you are doing?
I mean, this is out of theworld stuff.
So I think now every, everyeveryone listening is thinking
(22:36):
this guy is the real deal, buthe's talking about it's not that
I'm doing this.
What I'm interested.
What I'm interested, david, ishow did you get here?
Tell me about the hard part,tell me about I want to know and
what got you to this place.
What hard system strugglebefore you became the writer,
(22:58):
the preacher, the speaker, theleader in this area?
Tell me about that.
Well, actually it starts withmy conversion.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So let me tell you how that whole thing happens.
So my mom and my dad did notattend churches anywhere and we
went, you know, we got guiltedinto Christmas and Easter, right
, you call that the C&E crowd.
Right, there was a pastor whoused to visit my parents' diner.
My parents run a diner and hewould visit all the time and he
would show up and nod his headand be kind, and anybody in
(23:26):
trouble they could call him,he'd show up.
And so they always felt thissense of moral obligation to
show up twice a year.
But I mean, there wasn't aBible in the house, you know,
and and actually I'll just beblunt with you in the background
, my dad had a sit.
My dad suffered much.
He was kicked by a horse whenhe was six, broke his jaw, he
lost most of his eyesight and helost the muscles in his face to
(23:48):
be able to turn his eyes.
He'd have to turn his head tobe able to change the direction
of his eyes.
He could only focus straightahead.
And then he suffered becausepeople took advantage of him,
because he had Coke bottle,thick glasses, had a grade three
education, because he couldn'tgo to school to see the
chalkboard at the front kind ofthing.
Ukrainian immigrants to ruralmanitoba, saskatchewan.
That's the background.
And so they didn't have a lot.
(24:10):
They worked very hard.
Uh, even lower, lower workingclass would have been rich to
them.
You know, I'm saying just uh,they didn't have much.
Anyway, when they met each otherin toronto, they got married.
They started to raise theirfamily in St Catherine's,
ontario, just north of NiagaraFalls, is where I grew up.
Anyway, honest, hardworkingfolk, but no faith, and I'd
heard Jesus name when dad cuthis toe or something.
(24:31):
Anyway, my dad had had a sisterwho saved his life.
So here's what happened when hewas kicked by that horse, his
parents put him in a bed.
They didn't know how to helphim.
His sister, who he was, the hewas number 14 to 14 and so his
one of his older sisters camehome to visit, saw him into bed,
(24:53):
got him to a hospital, savedhis life.
She subsequently marriedsomeone who opened a strip joint
and my dad was a bouncer in thestrip joint.
Wow, and my early childhoodexperiences I had to decorate
the christmas tree in the stripjoint.
I mean, this is this is thekind of background I had.
Now there was a mini revival inthe high school I was in all
(25:16):
right.
My dad broke away from thatbackground, founded the diners,
called albert snack bar.
His name was albert for for ahamburg, that's a treat.
Albert's is the place to eat.
That used to be.
That was the line.
Anyway, we had five apartmentsattached to that and this is not
disconnected to the rest ofthis.
So there was a mini revival atthe St Catherine's Collegiate.
(25:36):
In fact it even made the localnewspaper Jesus Freaks Invade
the St Catherine's Collegiate.
Anyway, there was a bunch of.
I was in the drama guild, ifyou can imagine me doing drama.
Anyway, there's some drama andand in the drama I can see that
yeah, there was about 35, 40 butdepending on what play was
being done and that kind ofthing.
(25:56):
I used to like that kind ofthing and I was a student of
shakespeare and modern stuff andthat you know I used to read
plays and do them and that kindof thing and my brother Tim was
also there.
Anyway, the point was a bunch ofpeople got saved for this
little mini revival.
That happened this way One daya Mennonite kid brought his
Bible to school because hedidn't get his Bible reading
done in the morning.
He brought it out at lunch todo his reading and somebody
(26:19):
walked up and said what you doin reading that book?
You trying to understandShakespeare or something?
And he said no, no, no, no, no,I read it because I believe it.
And they said what do youbelieve?
And he told them and a bunch ofthem became believers and then
they formed this littleassociation, the Interschool
Christian Fellowship, and anumber of them were people who
were in the drama guild and Igot to watch this drama guild
(26:45):
and I got to watch this and inthe course of time, um, I would
get angry.
When they talked about jesusblood or jesus uh, uh, face,
that kind of thing get angry.
One day I was walking down thehallway and there was this girl
named joanne who was at herlocker singing about how she
loved the blood of jesus andsuddenly anger rose up inside of
me and I wanted to grab her andthrow her up against the locker
and command her to stop sayingthat.
(27:05):
But I stopped myself, realizedI was in trouble, something was
wrong.
Anyway, that same girl,together with a couple others,
invited me to go and hear anEnglish Methodist preacher.
And he came in to our town andit was in an oversized living
room with a bunch of people fromthe high school.
And the guy looked at me when Iwalked in and I was going there
(27:31):
out of curiosity and, I think,to mock, and he looked at me and
he said in the name of Jesus,you will be still, you will say
nothing until I preach thegospel.
And I couldn't.
I was in your chair, I couldn'tmove, and and and there was
this two things like curiosityand revulsion.
You know now, this guy was amasterful preacher.
He was short, five foot two orthree, sweat profusely.
(27:52):
So you saw the sweat comingdown his arm.
His glasses would go down hisnose as he looked at you and
he'd look at you like this andhe'd say glory, hallelujah, have
you got jesus in your flesh?
Glory, that's, that's the wayhe talked anyway.
So he preaches the sermon, andit was.
(28:15):
It was a sermon called themarks of the new birth and we're
talking 10 to 12 years later.
I read john wesley's writingsand in John Wesley's writings
there were standard sermons forpreachers to use and that was
one of them and it was JohnWesley's outline.
But regardless of this, hetalks about the power of the
Spirit to transform the believerand then he says if you want
(28:36):
Jesus in your flesh glory, comeforward and I shall pray for you
.
And I leaped out of my chair.
I was at the front, and he saidno, no, not now.
When I finished my sermon hesaid there, I was at the front,
and eventually about 15 peoplegathered around the front, about
15.
And uh, and I knew a good halfof them, right, cause they were
from school and that kind ofthing.
(28:57):
Anyway, I knew the first girlhe started to pray with and she
was a broken girl and everybodyin the room knew that she'd had
some terrible experiences inlife.
So he goes up to her and hesaid tell Jesus you love him.
And she tried, but it was veryclear that it was broken and
forced, and you know.
(29:17):
And he said may I pray for you?
And she said yes, he put hishands on her head and this
happened to me and this was thebeginning.
As I watched he shone and theshining that was all around him
was glorious.
What do you mean?
he shone I mean I saw in thespirit realm.
You know in the Bible oh yeah,solitarsis saw Jesus before he
(29:39):
got saved.
My heavens, balaam donkey sawthe angel.
So I saw in the spirit realm.
He was shining and she was dark.
And then he starts to pray andthat beautiful light that was in
him starts to go right insidethis girl that I knew.
And then he said now tell Jesusyou love him.
(30:01):
And she did, and it wasbeautiful, and he went to this
girl beside her, starts to praywith her.
Same thing happens to her andhe comes all the way around the
circle to me and it was 15people later.
Right, that was the first oneup.
I think that's why he waited tothe end.
Anyway, he doesn't.
(30:21):
I was expecting him to doexactly as he'd done with the
first one and instead he pointedhis finger in my belly and he
said get out.
I thought, get out, what's this?
And I looked down and hisshining hand was pulsating with
glorious light and there was aninky, cloudy black mass around
the center of my being.
And then his hand began to riseand he said out of that young
man, out, you go, out, you go.
Out of the young man, out yougo.
And I looked down as this blackmisty cloud was rising.
It looked down as this blackmisty cloud was rising, it got
(30:45):
to my chin and then that blackcloud flew out of my mouth, went
straight through the wall andthen I could say Jesus name.
And that was my first second asa believer in Jesus of Nazareth
, my first second.
So I learned in that experiencethat Jesus is more powerful
than the demons.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Right, so so.
David tell us about, tell usabout the struggles Well.
So we learned a lot from ourstory for David.
What a fantastic episode, whata fantastic interview we had
with David Chakta, and I lookforward to having a part two of
this interview.
But just to recap of what welearned today, we've learned
that we can.
(31:31):
We all have life experiences.
We all have things that we gothrough, circumstances that we
experience that can, that canmake us debilitated.
We all have circumstances andexperiences that can debilitate
us, but if we have faith and wehold on to God, even as we go
through doubt, fear anddisbelief, that we can see the
miraculous happen in our life.
So if you're struggling andyou're trying to figure out, do
I even believe that God is a Godthat can heal, or do I believe
(31:54):
that God can touch in a diseaseand person who who is has been
experiencing physical ailmentfor many, many years?
Can I even trust that God cando that?
Yes, you can, and David'stestimony and David's story is
an example of what God can dofor you and for those in your
(32:16):
life.
If you're going through aphysical struggle right now and
it's causing you to doubt yourfaith, it's causing you to doubt
God.
It's causing you to doubt yourfaith.
It's causing you to doubt God.
It's causing you to believe.
I want to encourage you,through David's story, to look
at what God can do.
Sometimes we can explain it,but sometimes we cannot.
Sometimes God will heal usmiraculously.
(32:37):
Sometimes God will heal us, asDavid says, naturally by going
to your doctor and letting yourdoctor work with you over the
years and over time until youexperience healing.
And I just want to encourageyou to keep your faith.
Hang in there and watch God dothe miraculous Peace and
(32:58):
remember nothing changed untilyou change.
First we're out.
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