January 6, 2021 • 47 mins
Tatiana's Career Change
Computer Science to Art
What is something that surprised you about your career change?
"I'm surprised to actually be doing something creative. I never thought being an artist, much less selling apparel would ever be feasible. It's a lot simpler than I imagined it to be."
Episode Timestamps
01:00 Introducing Tatiana
03:44 Amazon FBA explanation
04:41 Costs relating to Amazon FBA
05:50 Amazon FBA vs Etsy
08:45 Discussing how owning a store is so different from what Tatiana studied
12:05 Time spent figuring out career switching
18:51 How did Tatiana’s CS degree help her with her current endeavours
20:59 Graduating/Starting a business mid-pandemic
24:42 Current state of business / Venturing into coaching
28:33 Friends and family’s attitude towards Tatiana’s focus shift
32:12 How can an artistically illiterate person start his own print shop
34:14 Highs and lows of Tatiana’s career transition
39:53 Next steps
42:20 Time spent managing an online shop
45:53 Tatiana’s social links
46:30 Closing words
Resources
Blog post is here
Where to find Tatiana Website, Instagram (personal), Instagram (store)
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About Us
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Music was used with permission. Credit: Happy by MBB https://soundcloud.com/mbbofficial
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tatiana (00:00):
I think I needed to be lost in order to end up on where
(00:16):
I am now. Because had I not gonethrough all that I definitely
would not have explored this asa career path at all.
Dana (00:58):
Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening,
wherever you are. Welcome backto the working progress podcast.
Today, we're talking to Tatiana,who made a career change from
software engineer to opening herown online store just recently.
And when I say recently, I'mtalking about just a few months
ago, depending on when thisepisode launches, and this is
(01:19):
during the time of COVID. So I'mreally excited to have her here
today to share her story withus. So Tatiana, welcome to our
podcast. We're so excited tohave you here. Tell us a little
bit about yourself.
Tatiana (01:32):
Thank you, Dana. I'm super excited to be on here as
well. This is actually my firstpodcast. So that's super
exciting for me. Thank you. Soas Dana said, my name is Tatiana
and I graduated from universityabout a year ago in December of
2019. So right before COVID hit,which is both good and bad. I
(01:53):
was lucky enough to have mygraduation ceremony. But the job
market was absolutely terrible.
So with that, I started computerscience and I minor to digital
arts. I thought aftergraduating, I was going to go
straight into a full time techjob out in Seattle, Washington.
But I think I realized with timesome time in that semester that
I was really unhappy. And I hadbeen unhappy for a while
(02:14):
actually, I think it was justgoing to be too many transitions
at once. And I realized thatnow's the time to make a change.
And I had always love art. And Ilove being artistic. Although I
didn't know at the time, I justknew I needed something more
creative. And so I let go ofthat job offer with absolutely
no backup plan, which was a bitridiculous looking back at it
(02:35):
now. But I was kind of doing itfor my own mental health at the
time. And in the past. Or thefirst couple months of this
year, I spent basically a lot oftime researching what I was
going to do next, just trying tofind inspiration from other
people, mostly youtubers tryingto get ideas there. And
eventually I settled on doingAmazon FBA, which I invested a
(02:59):
lot of money and to learn and incourses, and I found a product
that I wanted to move forwardwith. And at the end of the day,
I was stalled a bit by utilitybills and opening a bank
account, which took about amonth in itself. And in that
time, I just realized that I wasalways creating. And so I might
as well just find a way to makemoney off of my art. And that
(03:21):
basically led me to where I amnow. I'm an artist, I not only
sell art prints, but I alsodesign t shirts. So I design the
graphics that go on T shirts andapparel and then I sell that on
both my own website as well ason Etsy. And then I've just
shared my whole journey onYouTube as well.
Dana (03:42):
So I heard something that I've never heard before. Maybe
you could explain a little bit.
What's the Amazon FBA?
Tatiana (03:49):
Yeah, so Amazon FBA stands for Amazon fulfillment,
or Fulfillment by Amazon. Andokay, what it is it's very
similar to drop shipping, butessentially you contact a
supplier. Most commonly that'sgoing to be in China, but you
can also source locally, and youfind a product, there's a lot of
(04:10):
science behind I guess choosingthe right product, and you
orders samples, you throw onyour own brand label on it, as
well as you make littlemodifications to make your
product a little different thanyour competitors and better of
course, and then you send thatproduct off to an Amazon
warehouse and you can make yourAmazon listing that way. So
(04:32):
whenever someone orders fromyour Amazon site, or store, then
Amazon packages that product anddelivers it to them.
Dana (04:42):
Well, okay, so you don't actually it doesn't actually go
through you. They package it foryou and Okay, and how much do
you have to invest upfront?
Tatiana (04:52):
So Amazon FBA is definitely not a low upfront
cost type of business. I'd saybecause you are ordering in
bulk, you'll tend to spendaround like anywhere from 3000
to $5,000 up front, in in justgetting sample orders in
shipping your supplies overseas,in storing them in the
(05:13):
warehouse. It's definitely superexpensive. And then you have
your marketing you have to worryabout. So so there's a lot that
goes into it. Not only that, butalso a lot of people invest in
courses upfront. So I know themost popular course is around
like $5,000, which is a lot ofmoney for me. So that's not
something I was able to investin. But the one I invested in
(05:35):
was still $1,000 and still superuseful. But even that is a lot
of money. So definitely not alow risk type of business to get
started with but still superexciting. And I think with high
risk can come high reward aswell.
Dana (05:50):
Why did you pick this over Etsy?
Tatiana (05:54):
So originally I chose Amazon FBA because I guess I
Funny enough, I was on YouTubeand I found another youtuber
whose name was Tatiana, and Igot like a little excited
because you know, you know, manyTatiana's in your life now.
Yeah, so I started watching hervideos, and she was just super
knowledgeable on everything,Amazon FBA, because going into
(06:17):
this, I also knew nothing of it,I didn't even know it existed.
And I just felt that it was areally great way to get into the
e commerce space. Becauseactually, before that, I was
thinking of starting my ownclothing boutique. But after
discussing that idea with myparents, I don't think they were
too fond of it. And I kind ofunderstood why it is a very
competitive space. Andespecially for me coming in with
(06:39):
no prior business experience, Ithink it would have been a
little risky, because you dohold on to a lot of inventory.
And I mean, I didn't really knowwhat I was doing at the time. So
I thought Amazon FBA was abetter way of doing it, because
I'm not physically holding on tothese products. I'm more so
managing it, and I still havecontrol. And it was still
exciting for me to be able to dothis whole research process to
(07:01):
learn the e commerce space andget started there. So that's why
I started with that, I guess,aren't really hadn't come into
my head at that point. I guess Ijust was doing it for fun. And
then when I was waiting for mybank statement, as well as my
utility bill under my businessname to come in, that's when I
was like, hey, like, let mesearch up how I can sell my art
(07:22):
prints. Because over, I think,trying to think probably like
last semester or so. Or the lastsemester I was in college, I
created this art collage. It wasa fun piece is basically a bunch
of female line figures. And Ithrew it onto a poster. And I
made one for myself because Iwanted it in my room. And I
(07:44):
realized that a lot of myfriends wanted it too. So I
started selling it to them. Soat this point, I was thinking,
Okay, there's some demand forit, I might as well find a way
to continue selling my artbecause I enjoy it. And so I
started looking into that onlineas like, what printers Do I need
to buy? What kind of paper do Iprinted on? How do I do this.
And in doing so I came acrossprint on demand. And that's
(08:08):
where basically, I upload mydesigns on to whatever apparel I
want, or even my art prints. Andthen this other company will
print it on the shirts, on thehoodies on the mugs, whatever
item I choose, and then theywill sell it and send it off to
the customer. So I'm basicallyselling clothes that are made to
(08:33):
order they aren't made untilsomeone actually orders them.
And so that is very low risk,low upfront cost kind of
business. And I think for me,it's been a really great
introduction to the e commercespace.
Dana (08:46):
I see. So before this, have you always known that you
would be doing somethingartistic or you know, owning
your own store? Because this isquite different from where you
went to school.
Tatiana (08:59):
So I think those are two separate questions. And so
to answer your first one, Ithink I always knew that I
wanted to be doing somethingartistic, I am so artistically
inclined. And I don't just meanin painting and drawing. I have
always loved music, I playguitar. And I sing a little
(09:19):
just, you know, here and there.
And I also have gotten reallyinterested in dance. I love
creative writing. So that was, Ithink, the root source of like
this whole confusion that I wentthrough in college, because when
I arrived, I had absolutely noidea what I wanted to study. And
I think like I said before, inmy head, I just figured that I
(09:41):
needed to do something moreacademically focused in order to
be successful. becausetraditionally speaking society
tells you that anything artisticmakes it very difficult for you
to make a good living out of andso I kind of fell into that trap
and I ignored all my hobbies andreal interests and went for
Computer Science because it wassomething that I really had no
(10:01):
experience in. And I'mdefinitely someone who likes to
challenge myself and to learnnew things. And so that's how I
fell into that. And I kind ofthought it would be a little
more creative than it is. And Iwould argue that it is still a
creative job. It's just notcreative in the way I wanted it
to be. So, yes, I knew I wantedto be doing something creative.
It's a big reason why I leftbecause I wasn't feeling
(10:24):
fulfilled in that kind ofcreativity. And at some point, I
was going to go into theanimation industry for that
specific reason. But as far aslike starting my own business
and having my own shop, no, notat all, I never thought I'd be
doing an entrepreneurial kind ofventure. I was just really
inspired by all these YouTubers,and everything really manifested
(10:46):
itself. In my last year ofcollege, I took an
entrepreneurship class the yearbefore. And it was so funny,
because I remember being in thatclass, I was trying to get out
of another requirement that Ihad to take that I didn't want
to do. And I was sitting thereand I was like, there's no way
I'm ever going to be anentrepreneur, like, I don't even
(11:06):
really care about this stuff.
Like this is just not for me.
And then here we are. So it wasjust funny, because in that last
year, I started meeting a lot ofother entrepreneurs at my
school, who had been successful,and were very goal oriented like
myself. And I think theyinspired me to show and showed
me that it is super possible, Ialways thought starting a
(11:28):
business had to be supercomplicated, and it really
doesn't. And then in the firstmonths post school, I was also
working for a startup, I wasinterning as a graphic designer,
just to kind of gain someexperience. So again, I got that
inside look of what it meant torun your own business. And so I
think just seeing someone do itmade it seem like a much more
(11:49):
realistic thing for me to do.
And it definitely opened doorsfor me, because in my family,
there are no entrepreneurs. Soit really helped just seeing
other people my age, do it andbe successful with it.
Dana (12:04):
That's a very good point.
And I like how you seem to havea me from, you know, my
understanding is that you have avery good understanding of why
doing this works for you and whyprobably working as an
engineering doesn't work foryou, you have a very clear idea,
you know, for the why. And Ithink that's amazing. I wonder
how much time did you spendfiguring this out?
Tatiana (12:30):
Yeah, so this was definitely not an overnight
decision at all. And it hadbasically been like, all four
years in the making, to behonest, I remember my first year
of college, I like I said, I didcomputer science to learn
something new, and somethingthat I knew would challenge me.
And I mean, it was challenging.
And then I got my firstinternship that summer. And I
(12:53):
remember thinking that I was notenjoying it at all. But in my
head, I was like maybe it's justa sector that this specific
company is in. And that's why Idon't like it. That's what I
told myself at least. And Ididn't want to give up either.
So I'm like, I think I'd be tooclose minded if I just kind of
shoved this aside, so I need togive it another chance. And so
(13:13):
then the following summer, I gotan internship at a big tech
company as a software engineer.
And this one I was super excitedfor, because I had heard a lot
of positive positive experiencesfrom other people. And while the
overall internship wasfantastic, it was definitely not
something I saw myself doinglong term. I think I also just
(13:35):
had a harder time relating toother people who were there.
Like, I could see how excitedthey were to be doing the work
that they were doing. Whereaslike, for me, it wasn't the same
kind of fulfillment. Yeah, like,it was such a weird complex too,
though, just because, you know,I felt super grateful to be
there. Don't get me wrong, I wasso excited to be there. But I
(13:56):
felt like something was off forme. And I just couldn't
understand why. So in my head, Iwas like, maybe it's just maybe
it's too technical of a positionand the company is fine. So I
came back the following summer,to do a to a program manager
position. So I think this isnice. It's still in the tech
space. But it's not supertechnical, where I'm coding
(14:16):
every single day. And while thatexperience was nice, because I
did get to do some design work.
Again, it was still some kind ofa disconnect, where I just was
not enjoying my day to day work.
I love my team. I love thecompany and what they stood for
and just how they operated. Butfor me specifically, it just was
not what I wanted to do. Ineeded something more creative
(14:38):
in my life. And another bigthing that I think made me
realize that this wasn't for mewas that I love learning and
growing about new things. And Ithink with this specific role, I
felt that maybe it was tooniche. So everything that I was
learning was a lot, but it wasall really in one specific
sector that I felt was verydifficult to carry over onto
(15:01):
like other subjects and otherareas of life. And so what I
loved about business is like,I'm wearing so many different
hats. And I've just seen so muchpersonal growth, because there's
so many things I've had tolearn, not only in just how I
think about things, you know,like manifestations and all
those things, but also just inlearning about marketing and
learning about finance. So Ijust feel myself growing a lot
(15:24):
as a person. And I'm enjoyingthat. But going back to your
question with how long it took,it was all four years, I kept
trying different things, becauseI didn't want to quit, I kept
changing little things here andthere to see what would actually
work for me in the long run. AndI just remember, like calling my
parents, basically, this waslike a routine thing, maybe like
(15:44):
twice a year or something, Iwould call them and just freak
out freak out. Because I waslike, you know, like, I don't
know what I'm doing. I thinkmaybe I should, like reverse my
major, my minor. So maybe Ishould major in digital arts and
just minor in computer scienceand focus more on artistic
things. And every time we hadthis conversation, it always
(16:05):
resulted in, no, you should saycomputer science, and keep the
digital arts as your minor.
That's the best bet. But I thinkall of us kind of fell into that
trap of logically speaking, thatwas definitely the best option.
But it wasn't the best optionfor me. So I think at that
fourth year, I was just kind oflike, fed up with it and realize
(16:26):
I need to make a change for myown mental health. Because I was
also struggling with anxiety anddepression. And I just felt that
continuing this way I was goingto burn out. And it was just
going to make things a lot moredifficult for me. So I basically
made that decision for myself.
And even though I had no backupplan, I still felt so much
(16:46):
relief. When I let go of thatjob offer even though it was so
scary. I just felt that newthings were coming, good things
were coming. And I was gonnafigure it out. Either way, I had
that confidence in myself. And Ithink that's what really allowed
me to say, no, it's time to dowhat's right. For me,
Dana (17:04):
it did take four years for you to kind of figure it out.
But I'm really happy that youdidn't end up working in, let's
say, tech, or some kind ofengineer related roles for too
long. Because I think once youget into it, and then you have,
you know, five years, 10 years,20 years experience behind you,
it's going to be much harder towalk away from it.
Tatiana (17:25):
Yes, and that was definitely my thought process
behind it too. It was like,definitely would have been so
much nicer to figure this outearlier on, or at least have
listened to my gut earlier on.
But at the same time, I justgraduated college and I was like
now is a good time to make thatchange if you're ever going to
make that change. Because if Ihad waited down the line, I
mean, I would have had to moveto Seattle, that's already a
(17:48):
cost in itself. And I think itthere would have been a lot of
other factors I would have hadto take into account. Whereas
when I graduated college, likeeveryone goes through a
transition period, there now isthe right time to basically
choose the right path for me.
And I was also fortunate enoughthat my parents allowed me to
(18:09):
come back home and live withthem while I figured things out,
which, you know, saves me a tonof money, allowing me to put it
back into my business. And atthe same time, even though I
said I wish I would have figuredthis out earlier, tech also
allowed me to learn a bunch ofdifferent skills to network as
well as to save up money thathas also allowed me to fund my
(18:33):
new business ventures now. SoI'm still super grateful for
everything that happened. AndI'm glad it happened the way it
did. I think I needed to be lostin order to end up on where I am
now. Because had I not gonethrough all that I definitely
would not have explored this asa career path at all.
Dana (18:51):
And when you said that tech was helpful, did you say
that? Did you mean that becauseyou were able to intern and work
at some places and get paid andthat like went into part of your
investment?
Tatiana (19:05):
Right. So it was the money part of it. But it was
also just learning how a companyis run? What policies need to be
in place in order to runefficiently? How does a team
work together in order todeliver a product? What goes
into it? So I think kind ofgetting that behind the scenes
of an actual Corporation wasvery insightful. And not only
(19:29):
that, but the company I was atwas also really big on letting
interns chat with full timeemployees there no matter what
their role was. And I took fulladvantage of that. I mean, I
think I had probably over 20different conversations with
different people. Like I wasjust emailing them like oh, like
this is interesting. I want totalk to them. And everyone was
super sweet and super helpful.
And so I got to see a lot ofperspectives. And I had, you
(19:51):
know, conversations with peoplewho were very technically
minded, also havingconversations with people who
were very creative minded. And Ithink they all really helped me
understand that I needed to bedoing something creative. I
think that's where I had thefirst realization that, you
know, I need a role that allowsme to express my creativity. And
(20:13):
that could be intact, becausethere are more creative roles in
tech. I just had to search forthem. But I think overall, I
felt like I needed to restartcompletely. And that's just kind
of why I decided to leave andtake that break. I mean, it's
always there as a backup if Iwant to return, which is the
fantastic thing about it. But Ithink now is the right time to
(20:36):
try something new to dosomething entrepreneurial, just
because it can be risky. Butright now I have like the least
to lose basically. Honestly,sure. Yeah. So So I'm going for
it. And it's taught me a lot.
Dana (20:58):
And how was the experience of graduating in COVID? Like,
what is it like and, you know,doing internship and
Angela (21:04):
And having to start a business and COVID? Exactly.
Yeah.
Tatiana (21:09):
Yeah. So it's been wild, especially because I
graduated a semester early. AndI remember thinking to myself,
like, like, Am I making theright choice? Should I just stay
an extra semester? Like, be withmy friends? have it be pretty
chill? No, I'm so glad Igraduated this semester, I did,
because then COVID hit thatspring. And then all my friends
basically had to leave campuswithout like, really being able
(21:31):
to say bye to everyone. And soI'm, I feel very fortunate
there. But as far as like,actually, like, job wise, and
everything, I guess, I'm gladthat I decided to do my own
thing. But that was part of thereason why it also led me here
was because I was still tryingto maybe get a position either
as a graphic designer, or somekind of like manager in the
(21:53):
animation industry. But Irealized that in doing so is
really hard for me to get aposition in that area, or to be
taken seriously, because everytime I went in for an interview,
they always tried to push meinto the tech department, which
I totally understand why I mean,that's just what my resume
screamed. But in my head, I waslike, No, like, I'm trying to
(22:15):
get away from that. And so Ijust kind of felt like I had to
create my own opportunity there.
But as far as like starting myown business, and COVID, I think
it's been the perfect time forit, I say it's definitely a bit
more of a competitive space now,because a lot of people are
trying to do the same thing. Butat the same time, there's also a
lot more resources out there forus to utilize, and to learn. And
(22:36):
I think a lot of people havebecome very clever as to how
they can make money online. Andso I have found it to be a, it's
been pretty seamless for me inthat respect. I've like found
the programs that I needed, theresources that I've needed.
COVID has also given me a lotmore time to actually really
(22:57):
focus and, and not feel ashamedto kind of let go a little bit
of that social life just becausewe're all stuck at home. And so
like, it's not like my friendsare constantly asking me to like
go do this or go do that. Soit's given me a lot more time to
really dive deep into this andfocus as well as not have that
like whole FOMO issue either,because no one no one's really
(23:21):
doing anything fun now. So it'skind of motivated me more to
actually have something come outof COVID. For me.
Dana (23:32):
That's such a interesting perspective. And I really
appreciate that, because I guessI never thought that. I mean,
you're right COVID can likeduring this time, if you're not,
if you're not going outpartying, drinking, eating, you
know, hanging out with yourfriends, you're spending a lot
of time at home, and it'sactually a lot of valuable time
that can be used working towardssomething, you know, and I think
(23:54):
that's absolutely true. I findthat to be true for myself as
well. I think this year I'm ableto, since we're all staying at
home, just putting a lot of timeinto like the podcast with a
blog that we're we have goingand I think that's absolutely
true. And minus the time oftraveling to work and commuting
(24:15):
driving. So So yeah, or go outand wait in line.
Tatiana (24:20):
Yes, definitely force us to get more creative with
activities you can do in thehome. And I think that's also
you know why I started YouTubealso why I went back into art
just because like I had all thisextra time. So might as well use
it in a way that's productive,which like I was also in a much
healthier state of mind allowingme to do this.
Angela (24:41):
Yeah, I wanted to ask about the current state of your
business because I see that youhave a website and you're
selling your design on someclothings and some artwork. But
it also seems like you're kindof dabbling into like business
side of potentially coaching.
I'm not sure if that's the rightterm for it just yet, but tell
us Got it?
Tatiana (25:00):
Yeah, for sure. So I do have the whole apparel business
I launched in October, on my ownsite, Tatiana Marie are calm.
And sales have been really nice.
Obviously, it's slow. But forlike my first launch, I'm super
excited with it, I got probablyup for like 25 orders, I'm close
to like making $1,000 in sales.
(25:25):
So for no previous experience,I'm pretty satisfied with it.
Obviously, I see there's a lotof growth that can happen. But
I've already started working onthat I just this past weekend, I
worked on transferring some ofthose things over to Etsy as
well. So that I have thatAvenue, and I hope to sell on D
pop eventually, as well. And soI'm just super excited, I've
(25:46):
been working on on a lot of likeholiday designs, as well as just
new designs to put on the site.
So I'm currently waiting onsamples for that. But I'm just
excited to continue sharingthings in that manner. And so
going back to the coachingthing, so that's something I've
kind of been dabbling with, I'mnot really sure if I'm going to
turn that into a full service. Ihave been inspired by a lot of
(26:07):
coaches, actually. And I thinkthat's taught me a lot about
running my own business as well.
I look to them and theirresources. But I originally
started being very public in mywhole journey, just because I
wanted to document it. And Ithink I also wanted to explain
myself, I mean, I know I owe noone an explanation. But I, I
(26:31):
knew that the decision I wasmaking was a drastic one. And,
frankly, something that a lot ofpeople would probably disagree
with. And so I wanted to explainwhere I was coming from and why
I was making the transition thatI did. And that's where the
whole YouTube thing started. SoI wanted to share that story, as
(26:51):
well as be transparent, becauseI feel like, you know,
originally, I didn't know, if Iwanted to open a business, it
wasn't really something that hadcrossed my mind. But it wasn't
until I saw how doable itactually was. And that it didn't
need to be as complicated as Ioriginally thought that I
decided that it was something Iwanted to pursue. So I think I
just kind of wanted to show thatto other people that like, you
(27:13):
know, this is an option for alot of us. And it's definitely
doable for the average person aslong as you're committed. And,
and you have the patience forit. So I think that also goes
with my Instagram, I was Istarted mostly with like a whole
personal development journey.
Because I needed, I needed to doa lot of work on myself, mental
health wise. And so just readinga lot of books and, and learning
(27:35):
about different things was superhelpful for me. And I wanted to
share the tips that I learnedwith everyone else. And so I
started becoming public onInstagram and sharing those
posts. And the response thatI've gotten has been absolutely
amazing, and completelyunexpected. So I'm hoping to
continue that I have consideredcoaching services. My only thing
(27:57):
is, I think I'm waiting to getmore social proof as far as like
running my own business andhaving metrics to actually back
me up. Because you know, it'sone thing to be a lot of talk,
but it's another thing to haveactually done it and have
something to show for it. Soright now it's more about me
learning and sharing that witheveryone else. And then
(28:20):
eventually, if I find you know,if I do if I do get that
success, then that'd besomething I'm be more open to
exploring.
Angela (28:33):
Wonderful, I love the love that you're like so excited
about trying a bunch of things,but then you're also kind of
conscious about like know,taking some time for some steps
along the way to make sure thatyou like really get the most out
of it. And I think it's amazing,then, you know, just like within
a year after graduating fromcollege, you can become your own
(28:55):
business owner during COVID. Anddoing all like really well on
all of these differentplatforms. And you know, I love
what you have from your YouTubechannel, actually. And that
makes me wonder, like, when youkind of in the beginning of when
you were still trying to figureout of your transition. What did
your friends and family chalianwere they mostly supportive or
(29:16):
mostly against what you weretrying to do?
Tatiana (29:18):
Yeah, so thank you first and foremost for that
compliment. But my so supportivewise, I feel like with my
parents, it definitely took thema minute to kind of come around
and be fully supportive. They'vealways been very understanding
of where I'm coming from and andhave supported me and usually
(29:39):
the decisions that I make, but Ithink to be fully supportive
that took them a little bit justto kind of digest it just
because I mean we're fromdifferent generations and I
think they were brought up tobelieve that you know you got to
work to sustain your family andwork doesn't necessarily have to
be super pleasurable. It's justgot to bring money to the table.
(30:00):
And eventually you can grow tolike it as you learn more. So I
think coming in and saying, youknow what, like, I don't want to
do the traditional route, I'mgonna make money my own way. I
think that was a lot for them totake in. But I think they also
saw how much I was struggling.
Like I said, mentally, and Ithink they decided that this was
also the best course of actionfor me. And therefore they stood
(30:23):
by me, which was fantastic. And,and they still support me more.
Now, I think it's really funny,because the whole YouTube thing,
I think that was something Ialways wanted to do, perhaps not
in that category. Becauseobviously, I didn't know that
was the route I was going to godown. But I've always wanted to
make YouTube videos, and mydad's always been someone who's
very private. And so I alsobarely knew anything about
(30:48):
social media before startingthis, my Instagram is super
private, and it was only like,reserved to the people that I
actually knew in person. And soI've just had to learn so much
about, like, all these socialmedia platforms, as to how you
can use them to market yourselfand for business and, and
utilizing them to their fullestability. So it's definitely been
(31:09):
a learning curve. But they'vecome around, and they now they
watch all my videos, and theyalways come in and try to give
me feedback, you know, it'sreally great. But my friends, on
the other hand, basically havesupported me from the beginning,
I think they've saved becausethey've lived with me, they've
(31:30):
seen more of where I was comingfrom, and the fact that this was
definitely more of like, a fouryear decision, and not an
overnight spur of the momentkind of deal. And so I think
they've just been really happyto see me grow and blossom in
some manner, you know, like,have a more positive attitude
towards things. And so they wereall very supportive as far as
(31:54):
the videos go, and like, theInstagram and they're constantly
checking in, like, how arethings going, like, I'm super
proud of you. And it's so itfeels so great. And I'm so happy
to have a support system likethat, because it just helps so
much. It's been wonderful.
Dana (32:11):
So let's say somebody wants to somebody that's not
that artistically inclined, likeyourself, and wants to start
like a shop or, you know,getting on this trend. What do
you have any advice? Or whatsteps would you walk them
through in doing this.
Tatiana (32:29):
So for print on demand, specifically, I mean, you don't
really need to be an artist, Ido a lot of my own designs from
scratch, and by hand justbecause it's something I enjoy.
But I've seen a lot of peoplewho don't generally have
artistic talent get into it. Andthere are a lot of like, really
great services to use. So I knowa lot of people use designs on
(32:51):
Canva, the little icons thatthey offer and stuff, they're
all free to use for commercialpurposes. There are also
websites that sell icons forcommercial use that you can
include in your designs. Andit's really coming down to just
using like the appropriate fontsand putting everything together,
that's what you have to have theeye for is just choosing the
right icons that go together, soto speak, and doing your
(33:14):
research as well, for likecombining trends and seeing
what's actually going to sellnot necessarily designing what
you think is going to sell. AndI think the biggest advice,
though, like beyond this wholetechnical aspect of it, is to
ask yourself, are you actuallyfully committed? And do you have
(33:37):
the patience to make this workbecause you know, businesses
take time to actually grow andprosper. Not everyone is an
overnight success. So if you'relike, willing to be fully
committed, and you trustyourself to put in the effort to
do the research, and to bepatient, to see things actually
happen, then I think it's theright space for you to get into.
And also just with print ondemand. There, the main thing is
(34:01):
finding your supplier, but Ithink it's super doable. And
it's about finding other peoplewho have done it already and
have been successful, and usethat as your main source of
inspiration as well as your mainsource of learning.
Dana (34:14):
So tell me, what were some of the most difficult moments or
some of the most happiest, likehappiest moments that you've
experienced on this journey?
Tatiana (34:25):
I mean, difficult...
there are a lot of things thatwere difficult. Most of it did
happen at the beginning of thiswhole journey when I was trying
to figure out exactly what itwas I was going to do because
again, I literally had no backupplan. So I was so lost for a
couple of months, trying tofigure out my next steps. And
that was partly why I took thatgraphic design internship
because I needed something inthe meantime, and to be
(34:48):
exploring something new to feellike productive. And so that was
a trying time because I keptlike coming up with these ideas
and then realizing that maybethey weren't the best For me,
and and what was going tosustain me long term? I think
that was the hardest part. I'vealso struggled a lot with
deciding, like, when is theright time to invest? And what
(35:10):
is the right time? What is theright thing to invest in? Just
because I guess I've always beena little more frugal with my
spending. But I realized that inbusiness, it's important to
invest in the right things, youknow, sometimes it makes more
sense to pay someone else to dosomething that's going to take
you a long time when you can beusing that time to actually make
more money instead. And solearning that balance has been a
(35:34):
bit of an adjustment for me, I'dsay. But it's all part of the
process. And I'm learning andsame thing with figuring out
what it was I wanted to do. LikeI said, I kind of sound like
I've been all over the place.
But I feel like that was part ofthe process of basically
narrowing it down to what Iwanted to do. It's all about
exploration, and then justhaving different options. So you
(35:56):
find the one that fits best withyour personality. Because that,
you know, I've also like, cameacross some other ones, I was
like, Oh, you can like become apodcast agent, for instance,
where you connect people withpodcasters. And, you know,
that's a great model for somepeople. But I wouldn't say
necessarily, it's for me, like,I am definitely more of an
introverted person. And that's alot of cold calling. I don't
(36:21):
know, that's not my type ofthing. It seems very
intimidating. But I think thosehave been the struggles. But at
the same time, it's also allowedme to, to grow as I said, as a
person and come out stronger andmore knowledgeable on the other
end. So like I said, everyjourney has its ups and downs,
but, but it's nice to getthrough that. And then as far as
like the happy parts. Honestly,just like launching my business
(36:47):
and owning a business has beenso fulfilling. Because like I
said, I thought it was a superdaunting task. And now that I've
actually done it, I just feel soproud of myself for having gone
through it and basically gonethrough unknown territory,
something I was incrediblyunfamiliar with basically how to
(37:07):
start from scratch, and learn onmy own, I think for that, that
has been a super rewardingfeeling. And, and kind of
breaking free of the socialstigma of, well, you need to
work in corporate, you need tohave a nine to five job like,
you're kind of crazy for turningdown that offer. I think being
able to put my foot down and sayno, like, I'm doing this for
(37:30):
myself, this is right for me.
And now I'm going to show youthat I can actually make it
happen. I think that's been veryempowering for me. And so I
really don't have any regrets.
Obviously, I have my days whereI'm like, oh, like some money,
that paycheck would have beennice. But no, you can't always
(37:52):
have that. And in the long ride,I know this is gonna pay off.
And I'm just so much happier andhave time to actually do other
things that I enjoyed that wasthe other thing was that while I
was in tech, I think, because myheart wasn't in it, I just felt
so drained at the end of theday, that just getting myself to
do other activities was such atask, even activities that I
(38:13):
enjoyed, I just like did notsorry, did not have the energy
for it. And so now that like I'mdoing something that I enjoy,
like, I just feel so much moreenergized, and have the time to
actually put into other hobbies.
Not only that, but also like, mywork is something I enjoy now.
And therefore I can spend likeseveral hours, like to up to 12
(38:34):
hours a day or more working onit. And it doesn't feel like
work, because in some ways, I'mmixing my hobbies into it. And I
think that's the ideal. Theideal situation for me.
Angela (38:49):
Yeah, I totally agree.
And I love that kind of how youmentioned, you know, at times,
it can feel like certainindustries and job titles or
certain like, company, I guesssounds so cool, and you know,
bright and shiny. And you know,us sometimes would be really
drawn to that. But at the sametime, I think you kind of didn't
like your own self inventory ofyou know, what really is
(39:09):
rewarding to you. Yes, money isalways rewarding to probably
almost everyone, but it's notgoing to cut in, you know, above
certain level for some of us ifthe role is not the right fit.
Yeah, you're able to see that.
Tatiana (39:24):
Thank you. And like I'm not trying to know, you know,
throw dirt on the corporateworld. I think for some people,
that's a fantastic opportunityfor them. It suits their
lifestyles extremely well, andthey're very successful and
happy there. And I encouragethat I think it's fantastic. I
think what I'm trying to promoteis more just like, you know, do
the thing that makes you thehappiest that makes you feel the
(39:46):
most fulfilled and that you feelthat you're having the biggest
impact on and and that's whatI'm kind of trying to live by.
Dana (39:53):
What do you think you could do next? You know, now
that you have your own storeonline, I guess we've met A
little bit about coaching,possibly other things you're
itching to try.
Tatiana (40:06):
So yeah, definitely, I am trying to focus on one thing
at a time, just because I knowI'm someone that has a lot of
interest. But I don't want tospread myself too thin. And I
know with business, it's veryimportant to, to really dive
deep into one thing, as opposedto putting your attention
everywhere. So I'm firstfocusing on this whole apparel
business, cementing that andletting it grow to a level that
(40:30):
is more passive, where I don'thave to be such, so hands on on
it. So I'm going to focus firston getting that business there
and growing it on differentchannels. And from there, I
think I will go back to AmazonFBA and start my research again,
and choose a couple productsthat I want to get started with,
because that's another form ofpassive income. And another way
(40:54):
to learn about e commerce and Ithink my whole experience with
the apparel business is actuallygoing to help me there. So so
that's gonna be the plan there.
And then once I get thatunderway, my goal is to also
begin publishing Kindle books.
It is a dream of mine to write abook, I still don't know what
(41:16):
the topic is gonna be on. ButI've always wanted to become an
author. And I think this is aperfect opportunity to do so.
There are many courses thatteach you how you can actually,
you know, create a Kindle book,a lot of people honestly don't
even write the books themselves.
They hire ghost writers, whichwas a total shock to me.
Dana (41:37):
Oh, my God.
Tatiana (41:38):
yeah, it's completely like legal and standard to do.
But that's how people makemoney. But for me, you know, I
really would like to use thisinformation in order to write my
own books and be able to sharethat also on Amazon. And so I
have, I have different ideas forexpanding and making money. And
(42:00):
I think I can all use all theseavenues to continue sharing all
of it on YouTube, and theneventually possibly turning it
into a coaching business. Socurrently just trying to
capitalize on my interest andgrow from there.
Dana (42:16):
And so I'm curious, how much time do you spend, I say,
on a weekly basis on your store,
Tatiana (42:23):
I spend way more than a full time job. It's, it's so
fine. Because again, like Isaid, I'm enjoying the process.
The wonderful thing about it isthat there's so much flexibility
in it. So to be completelyhonest, I am not a morning
person, I do not enjoy waking upearly, I will if I have to, but
(42:44):
I find that I am the mostproductive and creative at
night. So a lot of times I'llwake up around like nine in the
morning or so with an alarm, ofcourse, because I cannot get my
body to naturally do that yet.
And, and then I'll get to workprobably around like 10 or so.
And there's a lot that goes intoit. It's not just like the store
itself, I also have to thinkabout photography. And then like
(43:05):
Instagram, now I have twoInstagrams to run, like what
kind of information do I want toshare on this day, I'm learning
about Pinterest and marketingthat way, and then actually
designing or doing the financepart of it, learning about sales
tax, all of It's so confusing.
Um, so so there's a lot to do ina day. And usually, if it's a
(43:28):
very like fun, very motivated,I'll say up to like one in the
morning or so I'm just workingand just designing. And I guess
it's just because nighttime ismy best time. But I do take
breaks like throughout the day.
And just to kind of keepproductivity high. When I find
that I'm getting veryoverwhelmed or very frustrated
with a specific task, I'll takelike a 20 minute break or so.
(43:50):
And whether that means going onmy phone or taking a 20 minute
nap to be honest. I it reallyallows me to kind of re energize
and then refocus back on my taskwhen I come back to it with like
a fresh pair of eyes, so tospeak. And so I think it's just
finding a healthy balancebetween everything. Obviously, I
don't think working this manyhours is sustainable in the long
(44:12):
run. But because I'm juststarting the business, I think
it's fair to say like, it's fairenough for me to put all these
hours in into it. And I thinkit'll pay off in the long run.
So, so it's it's a lot of workand energy. I also try to
balance it out, though, bysetting specific tasks that I
want to get done in the day, Iusually pick around three tasks
(44:35):
that are doable, and that are amust for me to finish in that
day. And then anything else thatI managed to complete are
complete bonuses. And so it'sjust kind of that extra boost of
energy you need. And this hasreally helped me like stay
focused and stay motivatedwithout feeling like super
overwhelmed. It's like oh mygod, there's so much to do.
Well, yeah, there's so much todo, but you have so many days to
(44:56):
do it. So just divide up thework now. So I do like to set
deadlines to kind of keep myselfon track. But another thing that
I've kind of learned with thatis to not be like too harsh on
myself, just because that Ithink, induces a lot of stress.
And that's what creates likethat toxic work environment. So
if I set deadlines, I'm workingreally hard to meet them. And
(45:19):
more often than not, I do end upmeeting them, which is great.
But on the off day that I needto extend the deadline a little
bit. That's okay, I'm not goingto beat myself up over it, just
because I'm not trying to inducethat stress. And I'm not trying
to create a toxic relationshipwith my work. And you know, in
the corporate world, thishappens as well. We need to
extend deadlines every once in awhile just because we can't
(45:41):
physically get it done. As longas you don't become a habit of
doing that, though. I think it'stotally fine. And it's a healthy
way of balancing everything thatneeds to get done.
Dana (45:53):
And lastly, where can people reach you online.
Tatiana (45:56):
So, online, I am mostly on Instagram and YouTube. So my
Instagram is Tatiana Marie withtwo ends. My YouTube is the same
thing. Usually I don't come upon YouTube, though, like one of
my videos will which is the whyI left my six figure job with no
backup plan. But if you filterit through channels, I'll show
(46:18):
up there. And then for mywebsite for the actual apparel
business, it's Tatiana Marieart.com. That's the same thing
for my Etsy and then my artInstagram.
Dana (46:30):
Thank you so much.
Tatianna, we've learned so muchfrom you today. And I really,
really enjoyed your passion,your energy, how excited you are
for this, you know, business andjust so much more that you could
grow into. So I'm so happy foryou and really, really happy
that you got to spend an hourwith us today. So thank you so
much for your time.
Tatiana (46:50):
Thank you so much Dana and Angela for having me here as
well. It's been a pleasure. I'vebeen super excited to do this
first podcast, and it's justbeen great being able to share
my story and talk with someoneelse about it. So thank you for
giving me that opportunity.
Angela (47:04):
You're so welcome.
Dana (47:04):
Thank you.
I think I needed to be lost in order to end up on where
(00:16):
I am now. Because had I not gonethrough all that I definitely
would not have explored this asa career path at all.
Dana (00:58):
Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening,
wherever you are. Welcome backto the working progress podcast.
Today, we're talking to Tatiana,who made a career change from
software engineer to opening herown online store just recently.
And when I say recently, I'mtalking about just a few months
ago, depending on when thisepisode launches, and this is
(01:19):
during the time of COVID. So I'mreally excited to have her here
today to share her story withus. So Tatiana, welcome to our
podcast. We're so excited tohave you here. Tell us a little
bit about yourself.
Tatiana (01:32):
Thank you, Dana. I'm super excited to be on here as
well. This is actually my firstpodcast. So that's super
exciting for me. Thank you. Soas Dana said, my name is Tatiana
and I graduated from universityabout a year ago in December of
2019. So right before COVID hit,which is both good and bad. I
(01:53):
was lucky enough to have mygraduation ceremony. But the job
market was absolutely terrible.
So with that, I started computerscience and I minor to digital
arts. I thought aftergraduating, I was going to go
straight into a full time techjob out in Seattle, Washington.
But I think I realized with timesome time in that semester that
I was really unhappy. And I hadbeen unhappy for a while
(02:14):
actually, I think it was justgoing to be too many transitions
at once. And I realized thatnow's the time to make a change.
And I had always love art. And Ilove being artistic. Although I
didn't know at the time, I justknew I needed something more
creative. And so I let go ofthat job offer with absolutely
no backup plan, which was a bitridiculous looking back at it
(02:35):
now. But I was kind of doing itfor my own mental health at the
time. And in the past. Or thefirst couple months of this
year, I spent basically a lot oftime researching what I was
going to do next, just trying tofind inspiration from other
people, mostly youtubers tryingto get ideas there. And
eventually I settled on doingAmazon FBA, which I invested a
(02:59):
lot of money and to learn and incourses, and I found a product
that I wanted to move forwardwith. And at the end of the day,
I was stalled a bit by utilitybills and opening a bank
account, which took about amonth in itself. And in that
time, I just realized that I wasalways creating. And so I might
as well just find a way to makemoney off of my art. And that
(03:21):
basically led me to where I amnow. I'm an artist, I not only
sell art prints, but I alsodesign t shirts. So I design the
graphics that go on T shirts andapparel and then I sell that on
both my own website as well ason Etsy. And then I've just
shared my whole journey onYouTube as well.
Dana (03:42):
So I heard something that I've never heard before. Maybe
you could explain a little bit.
What's the Amazon FBA?
Tatiana (03:49):
Yeah, so Amazon FBA stands for Amazon fulfillment,
or Fulfillment by Amazon. Andokay, what it is it's very
similar to drop shipping, butessentially you contact a
supplier. Most commonly that'sgoing to be in China, but you
can also source locally, and youfind a product, there's a lot of
(04:10):
science behind I guess choosingthe right product, and you
orders samples, you throw onyour own brand label on it, as
well as you make littlemodifications to make your
product a little different thanyour competitors and better of
course, and then you send thatproduct off to an Amazon
warehouse and you can make yourAmazon listing that way. So
(04:32):
whenever someone orders fromyour Amazon site, or store, then
Amazon packages that product anddelivers it to them.
Dana (04:42):
Well, okay, so you don't actually it doesn't actually go
through you. They package it foryou and Okay, and how much do
you have to invest upfront?
Tatiana (04:52):
So Amazon FBA is definitely not a low upfront
cost type of business. I'd saybecause you are ordering in
bulk, you'll tend to spendaround like anywhere from 3000
to $5,000 up front, in in justgetting sample orders in
shipping your supplies overseas,in storing them in the
(05:13):
warehouse. It's definitely superexpensive. And then you have
your marketing you have to worryabout. So so there's a lot that
goes into it. Not only that, butalso a lot of people invest in
courses upfront. So I know themost popular course is around
like $5,000, which is a lot ofmoney for me. So that's not
something I was able to investin. But the one I invested in
(05:35):
was still $1,000 and still superuseful. But even that is a lot
of money. So definitely not alow risk type of business to get
started with but still superexciting. And I think with high
risk can come high reward aswell.
Dana (05:50):
Why did you pick this over Etsy?
Tatiana (05:54):
So originally I chose Amazon FBA because I guess I
Funny enough, I was on YouTubeand I found another youtuber
whose name was Tatiana, and Igot like a little excited
because you know, you know, manyTatiana's in your life now.
Yeah, so I started watching hervideos, and she was just super
knowledgeable on everything,Amazon FBA, because going into
(06:17):
this, I also knew nothing of it,I didn't even know it existed.
And I just felt that it was areally great way to get into the
e commerce space. Becauseactually, before that, I was
thinking of starting my ownclothing boutique. But after
discussing that idea with myparents, I don't think they were
too fond of it. And I kind ofunderstood why it is a very
competitive space. Andespecially for me coming in with
(06:39):
no prior business experience, Ithink it would have been a
little risky, because you dohold on to a lot of inventory.
And I mean, I didn't really knowwhat I was doing at the time. So
I thought Amazon FBA was abetter way of doing it, because
I'm not physically holding on tothese products. I'm more so
managing it, and I still havecontrol. And it was still
exciting for me to be able to dothis whole research process to
(07:01):
learn the e commerce space andget started there. So that's why
I started with that, I guess,aren't really hadn't come into
my head at that point. I guess Ijust was doing it for fun. And
then when I was waiting for mybank statement, as well as my
utility bill under my businessname to come in, that's when I
was like, hey, like, let mesearch up how I can sell my art
(07:22):
prints. Because over, I think,trying to think probably like
last semester or so. Or the lastsemester I was in college, I
created this art collage. It wasa fun piece is basically a bunch
of female line figures. And Ithrew it onto a poster. And I
made one for myself because Iwanted it in my room. And I
(07:44):
realized that a lot of myfriends wanted it too. So I
started selling it to them. Soat this point, I was thinking,
Okay, there's some demand forit, I might as well find a way
to continue selling my artbecause I enjoy it. And so I
started looking into that onlineas like, what printers Do I need
to buy? What kind of paper do Iprinted on? How do I do this.
And in doing so I came acrossprint on demand. And that's
(08:08):
where basically, I upload mydesigns on to whatever apparel I
want, or even my art prints. Andthen this other company will
print it on the shirts, on thehoodies on the mugs, whatever
item I choose, and then theywill sell it and send it off to
the customer. So I'm basicallyselling clothes that are made to
(08:33):
order they aren't made untilsomeone actually orders them.
And so that is very low risk,low upfront cost kind of
business. And I think for me,it's been a really great
introduction to the e commercespace.
Dana (08:46):
I see. So before this, have you always known that you
would be doing somethingartistic or you know, owning
your own store? Because this isquite different from where you
went to school.
Tatiana (08:59):
So I think those are two separate questions. And so
to answer your first one, Ithink I always knew that I
wanted to be doing somethingartistic, I am so artistically
inclined. And I don't just meanin painting and drawing. I have
always loved music, I playguitar. And I sing a little
(09:19):
just, you know, here and there.
And I also have gotten reallyinterested in dance. I love
creative writing. So that was, Ithink, the root source of like
this whole confusion that I wentthrough in college, because when
I arrived, I had absolutely noidea what I wanted to study. And
I think like I said before, inmy head, I just figured that I
(09:41):
needed to do something moreacademically focused in order to
be successful. becausetraditionally speaking society
tells you that anything artisticmakes it very difficult for you
to make a good living out of andso I kind of fell into that trap
and I ignored all my hobbies andreal interests and went for
Computer Science because it wassomething that I really had no
(10:01):
experience in. And I'mdefinitely someone who likes to
challenge myself and to learnnew things. And so that's how I
fell into that. And I kind ofthought it would be a little
more creative than it is. And Iwould argue that it is still a
creative job. It's just notcreative in the way I wanted it
to be. So, yes, I knew I wantedto be doing something creative.
It's a big reason why I leftbecause I wasn't feeling
(10:24):
fulfilled in that kind ofcreativity. And at some point, I
was going to go into theanimation industry for that
specific reason. But as far aslike starting my own business
and having my own shop, no, notat all, I never thought I'd be
doing an entrepreneurial kind ofventure. I was just really
inspired by all these YouTubers,and everything really manifested
(10:46):
itself. In my last year ofcollege, I took an
entrepreneurship class the yearbefore. And it was so funny,
because I remember being in thatclass, I was trying to get out
of another requirement that Ihad to take that I didn't want
to do. And I was sitting thereand I was like, there's no way
I'm ever going to be anentrepreneur, like, I don't even
(11:06):
really care about this stuff.
Like this is just not for me.
And then here we are. So it wasjust funny, because in that last
year, I started meeting a lot ofother entrepreneurs at my
school, who had been successful,and were very goal oriented like
myself. And I think theyinspired me to show and showed
me that it is super possible, Ialways thought starting a
(11:28):
business had to be supercomplicated, and it really
doesn't. And then in the firstmonths post school, I was also
working for a startup, I wasinterning as a graphic designer,
just to kind of gain someexperience. So again, I got that
inside look of what it meant torun your own business. And so I
think just seeing someone do itmade it seem like a much more
(11:49):
realistic thing for me to do.
And it definitely opened doorsfor me, because in my family,
there are no entrepreneurs. Soit really helped just seeing
other people my age, do it andbe successful with it.
Dana (12:04):
That's a very good point.
And I like how you seem to havea me from, you know, my
understanding is that you have avery good understanding of why
doing this works for you and whyprobably working as an
engineering doesn't work foryou, you have a very clear idea,
you know, for the why. And Ithink that's amazing. I wonder
how much time did you spendfiguring this out?
Tatiana (12:30):
Yeah, so this was definitely not an overnight
decision at all. And it hadbasically been like, all four
years in the making, to behonest, I remember my first year
of college, I like I said, I didcomputer science to learn
something new, and somethingthat I knew would challenge me.
And I mean, it was challenging.
And then I got my firstinternship that summer. And I
(12:53):
remember thinking that I was notenjoying it at all. But in my
head, I was like maybe it's justa sector that this specific
company is in. And that's why Idon't like it. That's what I
told myself at least. And Ididn't want to give up either.
So I'm like, I think I'd be tooclose minded if I just kind of
shoved this aside, so I need togive it another chance. And so
(13:13):
then the following summer, I gotan internship at a big tech
company as a software engineer.
And this one I was super excitedfor, because I had heard a lot
of positive positive experiencesfrom other people. And while the
overall internship wasfantastic, it was definitely not
something I saw myself doinglong term. I think I also just
(13:35):
had a harder time relating toother people who were there.
Like, I could see how excitedthey were to be doing the work
that they were doing. Whereaslike, for me, it wasn't the same
kind of fulfillment. Yeah, like,it was such a weird complex too,
though, just because, you know,I felt super grateful to be
there. Don't get me wrong, I wasso excited to be there. But I
(13:56):
felt like something was off forme. And I just couldn't
understand why. So in my head, Iwas like, maybe it's just maybe
it's too technical of a positionand the company is fine. So I
came back the following summer,to do a to a program manager
position. So I think this isnice. It's still in the tech
space. But it's not supertechnical, where I'm coding
(14:16):
every single day. And while thatexperience was nice, because I
did get to do some design work.
Again, it was still some kind ofa disconnect, where I just was
not enjoying my day to day work.
I love my team. I love thecompany and what they stood for
and just how they operated. Butfor me specifically, it just was
not what I wanted to do. Ineeded something more creative
(14:38):
in my life. And another bigthing that I think made me
realize that this wasn't for mewas that I love learning and
growing about new things. And Ithink with this specific role, I
felt that maybe it was tooniche. So everything that I was
learning was a lot, but it wasall really in one specific
sector that I felt was verydifficult to carry over onto
(15:01):
like other subjects and otherareas of life. And so what I
loved about business is like,I'm wearing so many different
hats. And I've just seen so muchpersonal growth, because there's
so many things I've had tolearn, not only in just how I
think about things, you know,like manifestations and all
those things, but also just inlearning about marketing and
learning about finance. So Ijust feel myself growing a lot
(15:24):
as a person. And I'm enjoyingthat. But going back to your
question with how long it took,it was all four years, I kept
trying different things, becauseI didn't want to quit, I kept
changing little things here andthere to see what would actually
work for me in the long run. AndI just remember, like calling my
parents, basically, this waslike a routine thing, maybe like
(15:44):
twice a year or something, Iwould call them and just freak
out freak out. Because I waslike, you know, like, I don't
know what I'm doing. I thinkmaybe I should, like reverse my
major, my minor. So maybe Ishould major in digital arts and
just minor in computer scienceand focus more on artistic
things. And every time we hadthis conversation, it always
(16:05):
resulted in, no, you should saycomputer science, and keep the
digital arts as your minor.
That's the best bet. But I thinkall of us kind of fell into that
trap of logically speaking, thatwas definitely the best option.
But it wasn't the best optionfor me. So I think at that
fourth year, I was just kind oflike, fed up with it and realize
(16:26):
I need to make a change for myown mental health. Because I was
also struggling with anxiety anddepression. And I just felt that
continuing this way I was goingto burn out. And it was just
going to make things a lot moredifficult for me. So I basically
made that decision for myself.
And even though I had no backupplan, I still felt so much
(16:46):
relief. When I let go of thatjob offer even though it was so
scary. I just felt that newthings were coming, good things
were coming. And I was gonnafigure it out. Either way, I had
that confidence in myself. And Ithink that's what really allowed
me to say, no, it's time to dowhat's right. For me,
Dana (17:04):
it did take four years for you to kind of figure it out.
But I'm really happy that youdidn't end up working in, let's
say, tech, or some kind ofengineer related roles for too
long. Because I think once youget into it, and then you have,
you know, five years, 10 years,20 years experience behind you,
it's going to be much harder towalk away from it.
Tatiana (17:25):
Yes, and that was definitely my thought process
behind it too. It was like,definitely would have been so
much nicer to figure this outearlier on, or at least have
listened to my gut earlier on.
But at the same time, I justgraduated college and I was like
now is a good time to make thatchange if you're ever going to
make that change. Because if Ihad waited down the line, I
mean, I would have had to moveto Seattle, that's already a
(17:48):
cost in itself. And I think itthere would have been a lot of
other factors I would have hadto take into account. Whereas
when I graduated college, likeeveryone goes through a
transition period, there now isthe right time to basically
choose the right path for me.
And I was also fortunate enoughthat my parents allowed me to
(18:09):
come back home and live withthem while I figured things out,
which, you know, saves me a tonof money, allowing me to put it
back into my business. And atthe same time, even though I
said I wish I would have figuredthis out earlier, tech also
allowed me to learn a bunch ofdifferent skills to network as
well as to save up money thathas also allowed me to fund my
(18:33):
new business ventures now. SoI'm still super grateful for
everything that happened. AndI'm glad it happened the way it
did. I think I needed to be lostin order to end up on where I am
now. Because had I not gonethrough all that I definitely
would not have explored this asa career path at all.
Dana (18:51):
And when you said that tech was helpful, did you say
that? Did you mean that becauseyou were able to intern and work
at some places and get paid andthat like went into part of your
investment?
Tatiana (19:05):
Right. So it was the money part of it. But it was
also just learning how a companyis run? What policies need to be
in place in order to runefficiently? How does a team
work together in order todeliver a product? What goes
into it? So I think kind ofgetting that behind the scenes
of an actual Corporation wasvery insightful. And not only
(19:29):
that, but the company I was atwas also really big on letting
interns chat with full timeemployees there no matter what
their role was. And I took fulladvantage of that. I mean, I
think I had probably over 20different conversations with
different people. Like I wasjust emailing them like oh, like
this is interesting. I want totalk to them. And everyone was
super sweet and super helpful.
And so I got to see a lot ofperspectives. And I had, you
(19:51):
know, conversations with peoplewho were very technically
minded, also havingconversations with people who
were very creative minded. And Ithink they all really helped me
understand that I needed to bedoing something creative. I
think that's where I had thefirst realization that, you
know, I need a role that allowsme to express my creativity. And
(20:13):
that could be intact, becausethere are more creative roles in
tech. I just had to search forthem. But I think overall, I
felt like I needed to restartcompletely. And that's just kind
of why I decided to leave andtake that break. I mean, it's
always there as a backup if Iwant to return, which is the
fantastic thing about it. But Ithink now is the right time to
(20:36):
try something new to dosomething entrepreneurial, just
because it can be risky. Butright now I have like the least
to lose basically. Honestly,sure. Yeah. So So I'm going for
it. And it's taught me a lot.
Dana (20:58):
And how was the experience of graduating in COVID? Like,
what is it like and, you know,doing internship and
Angela (21:04):
And having to start a business and COVID? Exactly.
Yeah.
Tatiana (21:09):
Yeah. So it's been wild, especially because I
graduated a semester early. AndI remember thinking to myself,
like, like, Am I making theright choice? Should I just stay
an extra semester? Like, be withmy friends? have it be pretty
chill? No, I'm so glad Igraduated this semester, I did,
because then COVID hit thatspring. And then all my friends
basically had to leave campuswithout like, really being able
(21:31):
to say bye to everyone. And soI'm, I feel very fortunate
there. But as far as like,actually, like, job wise, and
everything, I guess, I'm gladthat I decided to do my own
thing. But that was part of thereason why it also led me here
was because I was still tryingto maybe get a position either
as a graphic designer, or somekind of like manager in the
(21:53):
animation industry. But Irealized that in doing so is
really hard for me to get aposition in that area, or to be
taken seriously, because everytime I went in for an interview,
they always tried to push meinto the tech department, which
I totally understand why I mean,that's just what my resume
screamed. But in my head, I waslike, No, like, I'm trying to
(22:15):
get away from that. And so Ijust kind of felt like I had to
create my own opportunity there.
But as far as like starting myown business, and COVID, I think
it's been the perfect time forit, I say it's definitely a bit
more of a competitive space now,because a lot of people are
trying to do the same thing. Butat the same time, there's also a
lot more resources out there forus to utilize, and to learn. And
(22:36):
I think a lot of people havebecome very clever as to how
they can make money online. Andso I have found it to be a, it's
been pretty seamless for me inthat respect. I've like found
the programs that I needed, theresources that I've needed.
COVID has also given me a lotmore time to actually really
(22:57):
focus and, and not feel ashamedto kind of let go a little bit
of that social life just becausewe're all stuck at home. And so
like, it's not like my friendsare constantly asking me to like
go do this or go do that. Soit's given me a lot more time to
really dive deep into this andfocus as well as not have that
like whole FOMO issue either,because no one no one's really
(23:21):
doing anything fun now. So it'skind of motivated me more to
actually have something come outof COVID. For me.
Dana (23:32):
That's such a interesting perspective. And I really
appreciate that, because I guessI never thought that. I mean,
you're right COVID can likeduring this time, if you're not,
if you're not going outpartying, drinking, eating, you
know, hanging out with yourfriends, you're spending a lot
of time at home, and it'sactually a lot of valuable time
that can be used working towardssomething, you know, and I think
(23:54):
that's absolutely true. I findthat to be true for myself as
well. I think this year I'm ableto, since we're all staying at
home, just putting a lot of timeinto like the podcast with a
blog that we're we have goingand I think that's absolutely
true. And minus the time oftraveling to work and commuting
(24:15):
driving. So So yeah, or go outand wait in line.
Tatiana (24:20):
Yes, definitely force us to get more creative with
activities you can do in thehome. And I think that's also
you know why I started YouTubealso why I went back into art
just because like I had all thisextra time. So might as well use
it in a way that's productive,which like I was also in a much
healthier state of mind allowingme to do this.
Angela (24:41):
Yeah, I wanted to ask about the current state of your
business because I see that youhave a website and you're
selling your design on someclothings and some artwork. But
it also seems like you're kindof dabbling into like business
side of potentially coaching.
I'm not sure if that's the rightterm for it just yet, but tell
us Got it?
Tatiana (25:00):
Yeah, for sure. So I do have the whole apparel business
I launched in October, on my ownsite, Tatiana Marie are calm.
And sales have been really nice.
Obviously, it's slow. But forlike my first launch, I'm super
excited with it, I got probablyup for like 25 orders, I'm close
to like making $1,000 in sales.
(25:25):
So for no previous experience,I'm pretty satisfied with it.
Obviously, I see there's a lotof growth that can happen. But
I've already started working onthat I just this past weekend, I
worked on transferring some ofthose things over to Etsy as
well. So that I have thatAvenue, and I hope to sell on D
pop eventually, as well. And soI'm just super excited, I've
(25:46):
been working on on a lot of likeholiday designs, as well as just
new designs to put on the site.
So I'm currently waiting onsamples for that. But I'm just
excited to continue sharingthings in that manner. And so
going back to the coachingthing, so that's something I've
kind of been dabbling with, I'mnot really sure if I'm going to
turn that into a full service. Ihave been inspired by a lot of
(26:07):
coaches, actually. And I thinkthat's taught me a lot about
running my own business as well.
I look to them and theirresources. But I originally
started being very public in mywhole journey, just because I
wanted to document it. And Ithink I also wanted to explain
myself, I mean, I know I owe noone an explanation. But I, I
(26:31):
knew that the decision I wasmaking was a drastic one. And,
frankly, something that a lot ofpeople would probably disagree
with. And so I wanted to explainwhere I was coming from and why
I was making the transition thatI did. And that's where the
whole YouTube thing started. SoI wanted to share that story, as
(26:51):
well as be transparent, becauseI feel like, you know,
originally, I didn't know, if Iwanted to open a business, it
wasn't really something that hadcrossed my mind. But it wasn't
until I saw how doable itactually was. And that it didn't
need to be as complicated as Ioriginally thought that I
decided that it was something Iwanted to pursue. So I think I
just kind of wanted to show thatto other people that like, you
(27:13):
know, this is an option for alot of us. And it's definitely
doable for the average person aslong as you're committed. And,
and you have the patience forit. So I think that also goes
with my Instagram, I was Istarted mostly with like a whole
personal development journey.
Because I needed, I needed to doa lot of work on myself, mental
health wise. And so just readinga lot of books and, and learning
(27:35):
about different things was superhelpful for me. And I wanted to
share the tips that I learnedwith everyone else. And so I
started becoming public onInstagram and sharing those
posts. And the response thatI've gotten has been absolutely
amazing, and completelyunexpected. So I'm hoping to
continue that I have consideredcoaching services. My only thing
(27:57):
is, I think I'm waiting to getmore social proof as far as like
running my own business andhaving metrics to actually back
me up. Because you know, it'sone thing to be a lot of talk,
but it's another thing to haveactually done it and have
something to show for it. Soright now it's more about me
learning and sharing that witheveryone else. And then
(28:20):
eventually, if I find you know,if I do if I do get that
success, then that'd besomething I'm be more open to
exploring.
Angela (28:33):
Wonderful, I love the love that you're like so excited
about trying a bunch of things,but then you're also kind of
conscious about like know,taking some time for some steps
along the way to make sure thatyou like really get the most out
of it. And I think it's amazing,then, you know, just like within
a year after graduating fromcollege, you can become your own
(28:55):
business owner during COVID. Anddoing all like really well on
all of these differentplatforms. And you know, I love
what you have from your YouTubechannel, actually. And that
makes me wonder, like, when youkind of in the beginning of when
you were still trying to figureout of your transition. What did
your friends and family chalianwere they mostly supportive or
(29:16):
mostly against what you weretrying to do?
Tatiana (29:18):
Yeah, so thank you first and foremost for that
compliment. But my so supportivewise, I feel like with my
parents, it definitely took thema minute to kind of come around
and be fully supportive. They'vealways been very understanding
of where I'm coming from and andhave supported me and usually
(29:39):
the decisions that I make, but Ithink to be fully supportive
that took them a little bit justto kind of digest it just
because I mean we're fromdifferent generations and I
think they were brought up tobelieve that you know you got to
work to sustain your family andwork doesn't necessarily have to
be super pleasurable. It's justgot to bring money to the table.
(30:00):
And eventually you can grow tolike it as you learn more. So I
think coming in and saying, youknow what, like, I don't want to
do the traditional route, I'mgonna make money my own way. I
think that was a lot for them totake in. But I think they also
saw how much I was struggling.
Like I said, mentally, and Ithink they decided that this was
also the best course of actionfor me. And therefore they stood
(30:23):
by me, which was fantastic. And,and they still support me more.
Now, I think it's really funny,because the whole YouTube thing,
I think that was something Ialways wanted to do, perhaps not
in that category. Becauseobviously, I didn't know that
was the route I was going to godown. But I've always wanted to
make YouTube videos, and mydad's always been someone who's
very private. And so I alsobarely knew anything about
(30:48):
social media before startingthis, my Instagram is super
private, and it was only like,reserved to the people that I
actually knew in person. And soI've just had to learn so much
about, like, all these socialmedia platforms, as to how you
can use them to market yourselfand for business and, and
utilizing them to their fullestability. So it's definitely been
(31:09):
a learning curve. But they'vecome around, and they now they
watch all my videos, and theyalways come in and try to give
me feedback, you know, it'sreally great. But my friends, on
the other hand, basically havesupported me from the beginning,
I think they've saved becausethey've lived with me, they've
(31:30):
seen more of where I was comingfrom, and the fact that this was
definitely more of like, a fouryear decision, and not an
overnight spur of the momentkind of deal. And so I think
they've just been really happyto see me grow and blossom in
some manner, you know, like,have a more positive attitude
towards things. And so they wereall very supportive as far as
(31:54):
the videos go, and like, theInstagram and they're constantly
checking in, like, how arethings going, like, I'm super
proud of you. And it's so itfeels so great. And I'm so happy
to have a support system likethat, because it just helps so
much. It's been wonderful.
Dana (32:11):
So let's say somebody wants to somebody that's not
that artistically inclined, likeyourself, and wants to start
like a shop or, you know,getting on this trend. What do
you have any advice? Or whatsteps would you walk them
through in doing this.
Tatiana (32:29):
So for print on demand, specifically, I mean, you don't
really need to be an artist, Ido a lot of my own designs from
scratch, and by hand justbecause it's something I enjoy.
But I've seen a lot of peoplewho don't generally have
artistic talent get into it. Andthere are a lot of like, really
great services to use. So I knowa lot of people use designs on
(32:51):
Canva, the little icons thatthey offer and stuff, they're
all free to use for commercialpurposes. There are also
websites that sell icons forcommercial use that you can
include in your designs. Andit's really coming down to just
using like the appropriate fontsand putting everything together,
that's what you have to have theeye for is just choosing the
right icons that go together, soto speak, and doing your
(33:14):
research as well, for likecombining trends and seeing
what's actually going to sellnot necessarily designing what
you think is going to sell. AndI think the biggest advice,
though, like beyond this wholetechnical aspect of it, is to
ask yourself, are you actuallyfully committed? And do you have
(33:37):
the patience to make this workbecause you know, businesses
take time to actually grow andprosper. Not everyone is an
overnight success. So if you'relike, willing to be fully
committed, and you trustyourself to put in the effort to
do the research, and to bepatient, to see things actually
happen, then I think it's theright space for you to get into.
And also just with print ondemand. There, the main thing is
(34:01):
finding your supplier, but Ithink it's super doable. And
it's about finding other peoplewho have done it already and
have been successful, and usethat as your main source of
inspiration as well as your mainsource of learning.
Dana (34:14):
So tell me, what were some of the most difficult moments or
some of the most happiest, likehappiest moments that you've
experienced on this journey?
Tatiana (34:25):
I mean, difficult...
there are a lot of things thatwere difficult. Most of it did
happen at the beginning of thiswhole journey when I was trying
to figure out exactly what itwas I was going to do because
again, I literally had no backupplan. So I was so lost for a
couple of months, trying tofigure out my next steps. And
that was partly why I took thatgraphic design internship
because I needed something inthe meantime, and to be
(34:48):
exploring something new to feellike productive. And so that was
a trying time because I keptlike coming up with these ideas
and then realizing that maybethey weren't the best For me,
and and what was going tosustain me long term? I think
that was the hardest part. I'vealso struggled a lot with
deciding, like, when is theright time to invest? And what
(35:10):
is the right time? What is theright thing to invest in? Just
because I guess I've always beena little more frugal with my
spending. But I realized that inbusiness, it's important to
invest in the right things, youknow, sometimes it makes more
sense to pay someone else to dosomething that's going to take
you a long time when you can beusing that time to actually make
more money instead. And solearning that balance has been a
(35:34):
bit of an adjustment for me, I'dsay. But it's all part of the
process. And I'm learning andsame thing with figuring out
what it was I wanted to do. LikeI said, I kind of sound like
I've been all over the place.
But I feel like that was part ofthe process of basically
narrowing it down to what Iwanted to do. It's all about
exploration, and then justhaving different options. So you
(35:56):
find the one that fits best withyour personality. Because that,
you know, I've also like, cameacross some other ones, I was
like, Oh, you can like become apodcast agent, for instance,
where you connect people withpodcasters. And, you know,
that's a great model for somepeople. But I wouldn't say
necessarily, it's for me, like,I am definitely more of an
introverted person. And that's alot of cold calling. I don't
(36:21):
know, that's not my type ofthing. It seems very
intimidating. But I think thosehave been the struggles. But at
the same time, it's also allowedme to, to grow as I said, as a
person and come out stronger andmore knowledgeable on the other
end. So like I said, everyjourney has its ups and downs,
but, but it's nice to getthrough that. And then as far as
like the happy parts. Honestly,just like launching my business
(36:47):
and owning a business has beenso fulfilling. Because like I
said, I thought it was a superdaunting task. And now that I've
actually done it, I just feel soproud of myself for having gone
through it and basically gonethrough unknown territory,
something I was incrediblyunfamiliar with basically how to
(37:07):
start from scratch, and learn onmy own, I think for that, that
has been a super rewardingfeeling. And, and kind of
breaking free of the socialstigma of, well, you need to
work in corporate, you need tohave a nine to five job like,
you're kind of crazy for turningdown that offer. I think being
able to put my foot down and sayno, like, I'm doing this for
(37:30):
myself, this is right for me.
And now I'm going to show youthat I can actually make it
happen. I think that's been veryempowering for me. And so I
really don't have any regrets.
Obviously, I have my days whereI'm like, oh, like some money,
that paycheck would have beennice. But no, you can't always
(37:52):
have that. And in the long ride,I know this is gonna pay off.
And I'm just so much happier andhave time to actually do other
things that I enjoyed that wasthe other thing was that while I
was in tech, I think, because myheart wasn't in it, I just felt
so drained at the end of theday, that just getting myself to
do other activities was such atask, even activities that I
(38:13):
enjoyed, I just like did notsorry, did not have the energy
for it. And so now that like I'mdoing something that I enjoy,
like, I just feel so much moreenergized, and have the time to
actually put into other hobbies.
Not only that, but also like, mywork is something I enjoy now.
And therefore I can spend likeseveral hours, like to up to 12
(38:34):
hours a day or more working onit. And it doesn't feel like
work, because in some ways, I'mmixing my hobbies into it. And I
think that's the ideal. Theideal situation for me.
Angela (38:49):
Yeah, I totally agree.
And I love that kind of how youmentioned, you know, at times,
it can feel like certainindustries and job titles or
certain like, company, I guesssounds so cool, and you know,
bright and shiny. And you know,us sometimes would be really
drawn to that. But at the sametime, I think you kind of didn't
like your own self inventory ofyou know, what really is
(39:09):
rewarding to you. Yes, money isalways rewarding to probably
almost everyone, but it's notgoing to cut in, you know, above
certain level for some of us ifthe role is not the right fit.
Yeah, you're able to see that.
Tatiana (39:24):
Thank you. And like I'm not trying to know, you know,
throw dirt on the corporateworld. I think for some people,
that's a fantastic opportunityfor them. It suits their
lifestyles extremely well, andthey're very successful and
happy there. And I encouragethat I think it's fantastic. I
think what I'm trying to promoteis more just like, you know, do
the thing that makes you thehappiest that makes you feel the
(39:46):
most fulfilled and that you feelthat you're having the biggest
impact on and and that's whatI'm kind of trying to live by.
Dana (39:53):
What do you think you could do next? You know, now
that you have your own storeonline, I guess we've met A
little bit about coaching,possibly other things you're
itching to try.
Tatiana (40:06):
So yeah, definitely, I am trying to focus on one thing
at a time, just because I knowI'm someone that has a lot of
interest. But I don't want tospread myself too thin. And I
know with business, it's veryimportant to, to really dive
deep into one thing, as opposedto putting your attention
everywhere. So I'm firstfocusing on this whole apparel
business, cementing that andletting it grow to a level that
(40:30):
is more passive, where I don'thave to be such, so hands on on
it. So I'm going to focus firston getting that business there
and growing it on differentchannels. And from there, I
think I will go back to AmazonFBA and start my research again,
and choose a couple productsthat I want to get started with,
because that's another form ofpassive income. And another way
(40:54):
to learn about e commerce and Ithink my whole experience with
the apparel business is actuallygoing to help me there. So so
that's gonna be the plan there.
And then once I get thatunderway, my goal is to also
begin publishing Kindle books.
It is a dream of mine to write abook, I still don't know what
(41:16):
the topic is gonna be on. ButI've always wanted to become an
author. And I think this is aperfect opportunity to do so.
There are many courses thatteach you how you can actually,
you know, create a Kindle book,a lot of people honestly don't
even write the books themselves.
They hire ghost writers, whichwas a total shock to me.
Dana (41:37):
Oh, my God.
Tatiana (41:38):
yeah, it's completely like legal and standard to do.
But that's how people makemoney. But for me, you know, I
really would like to use thisinformation in order to write my
own books and be able to sharethat also on Amazon. And so I
have, I have different ideas forexpanding and making money. And
(42:00):
I think I can all use all theseavenues to continue sharing all
of it on YouTube, and theneventually possibly turning it
into a coaching business. Socurrently just trying to
capitalize on my interest andgrow from there.
Dana (42:16):
And so I'm curious, how much time do you spend, I say,
on a weekly basis on your store,
Tatiana (42:23):
I spend way more than a full time job. It's, it's so
fine. Because again, like Isaid, I'm enjoying the process.
The wonderful thing about it isthat there's so much flexibility
in it. So to be completelyhonest, I am not a morning
person, I do not enjoy waking upearly, I will if I have to, but
(42:44):
I find that I am the mostproductive and creative at
night. So a lot of times I'llwake up around like nine in the
morning or so with an alarm, ofcourse, because I cannot get my
body to naturally do that yet.
And, and then I'll get to workprobably around like 10 or so.
And there's a lot that goes intoit. It's not just like the store
itself, I also have to thinkabout photography. And then like
(43:05):
Instagram, now I have twoInstagrams to run, like what
kind of information do I want toshare on this day, I'm learning
about Pinterest and marketingthat way, and then actually
designing or doing the financepart of it, learning about sales
tax, all of It's so confusing.
Um, so so there's a lot to do ina day. And usually, if it's a
(43:28):
very like fun, very motivated,I'll say up to like one in the
morning or so I'm just workingand just designing. And I guess
it's just because nighttime ismy best time. But I do take
breaks like throughout the day.
And just to kind of keepproductivity high. When I find
that I'm getting veryoverwhelmed or very frustrated
with a specific task, I'll takelike a 20 minute break or so.
(43:50):
And whether that means going onmy phone or taking a 20 minute
nap to be honest. I it reallyallows me to kind of re energize
and then refocus back on my taskwhen I come back to it with like
a fresh pair of eyes, so tospeak. And so I think it's just
finding a healthy balancebetween everything. Obviously, I
don't think working this manyhours is sustainable in the long
(44:12):
run. But because I'm juststarting the business, I think
it's fair to say like, it's fairenough for me to put all these
hours in into it. And I thinkit'll pay off in the long run.
So, so it's it's a lot of workand energy. I also try to
balance it out, though, bysetting specific tasks that I
want to get done in the day, Iusually pick around three tasks
(44:35):
that are doable, and that are amust for me to finish in that
day. And then anything else thatI managed to complete are
complete bonuses. And so it'sjust kind of that extra boost of
energy you need. And this hasreally helped me like stay
focused and stay motivatedwithout feeling like super
overwhelmed. It's like oh mygod, there's so much to do.
Well, yeah, there's so much todo, but you have so many days to
(44:56):
do it. So just divide up thework now. So I do like to set
deadlines to kind of keep myselfon track. But another thing that
I've kind of learned with thatis to not be like too harsh on
myself, just because that Ithink, induces a lot of stress.
And that's what creates likethat toxic work environment. So
if I set deadlines, I'm workingreally hard to meet them. And
(45:19):
more often than not, I do end upmeeting them, which is great.
But on the off day that I needto extend the deadline a little
bit. That's okay, I'm not goingto beat myself up over it, just
because I'm not trying to inducethat stress. And I'm not trying
to create a toxic relationshipwith my work. And you know, in
the corporate world, thishappens as well. We need to
extend deadlines every once in awhile just because we can't
(45:41):
physically get it done. As longas you don't become a habit of
doing that, though. I think it'stotally fine. And it's a healthy
way of balancing everything thatneeds to get done.
Dana (45:53):
And lastly, where can people reach you online.
Tatiana (45:56):
So, online, I am mostly on Instagram and YouTube. So my
Instagram is Tatiana Marie withtwo ends. My YouTube is the same
thing. Usually I don't come upon YouTube, though, like one of
my videos will which is the whyI left my six figure job with no
backup plan. But if you filterit through channels, I'll show
(46:18):
up there. And then for mywebsite for the actual apparel
business, it's Tatiana Marieart.com. That's the same thing
for my Etsy and then my artInstagram.
Dana (46:30):
Thank you so much.
Tatianna, we've learned so muchfrom you today. And I really,
really enjoyed your passion,your energy, how excited you are
for this, you know, business andjust so much more that you could
grow into. So I'm so happy foryou and really, really happy
that you got to spend an hourwith us today. So thank you so
much for your time.
Tatiana (46:50):
Thank you so much Dana and Angela for having me here as
well. It's been a pleasure. I'vebeen super excited to do this
first podcast, and it's justbeen great being able to share
my story and talk with someoneelse about it. So thank you for
giving me that opportunity.
Angela (47:04):
You're so welcome.
Dana (47:04):
Thank you.
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