April 7, 2024 • 17 mins
In this episode we discuss and compare the differences (and similarities) between paid employees and volunteers.
We discover there is a lot the same, especially in the areas like:
- Recruitment & Iinduction
- Accountability/performance
- Work Health & Safety (including psychosocial safety)
By treating volunteers with the same level of professionalism and support as employees, organisations can cultivate a culture of inclusivity, collaboration, and mutual respect.
You can find the show notes for this episode here
Would you like to submit a question to the show? Let us know on our website or via LinkedIn.
Brought to you by Aster HR, the Work Wonders Podcast is hosted by Angela Gauci & Susan Rochester and is recorded at Launch Pad at Western Sydney University.
All information or advice included in this podcast is general, has been developed as a starting point for your business, and should be tailored to your specific requirements. It should not be considered legal advice. We have made every attempt to ensure the accuracy and currency of this information at the time of recording. However, references to things like employment laws are subject to change. For specific advice relating to your business, please get in touch with us.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you
by Asta HR, where we simplifythe human side of business.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm Angela and I'm Susan, let's dive into today's
episode and find out what you'vebeen wondering about.
In today's episode, we'retalking all about volunteers.
What counts as a volunteer?
How do we treat volunteers?
What are the differencesbetween volunteers and employees
(00:33):
?
We know a lot of organisationswho are in our circles who are
using volunteers, so what doesthat mean for the organisation
and how you should treat them?
Let's dive in.
This is the Work Wonderspodcast.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Hi Susan, Hi Angela, so we're talking about
volunteers, so right now ourlisteners might be going.
What are they doing?
Because they're not employees.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
No, and this is a topic, though, that we've been
thinking about for a while.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Because you and I each volunteer.
We are yeah, with our localchambers of commerce yeah, and
we're connected to othervolunteers yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You're also on a board, aren't you Susan?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Exactly so.
If you're doing anything whereyou're giving up your time for
free you're not getting paid forit then obviously you're
volunteering.
And I think what really broughtthis to mind for me recently is
the statistics have been comingout about the shortages of
volunteers.
So apparently the baby boomersfor all their faults and I say
(01:38):
that as a baby boomer they dogive up a lot of time to
volunteering whereas the youngergenerations don't now.
So part of that is cost ofliving.
You might be working two jobsto pay your mortgage.
There's a lot of reasons whyyounger people don't volunteer.
They're raising children andall the rest of it, but what
that's resulting in is ageneration of volunteers that
(02:01):
are, let's face it, reaching apoint where they may not be able
to do the things that they weredoing before, especially if
we're talking about jobs in RFS,for example, ses, you know so,
those physically demanding jobs.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So these are the sorts of organisations that
we're talking about.
The RFS is a great example, SES, Surf, Life Saving.
They're all really obviouslyrelying upon volunteers to get
their work done.
But there are other examples,like you said, being on a board
or in our local chambers orother groups community groups
they're all volunteer.
But other organisations thatwe've worked with and we know of
(02:39):
, like not-for-profit charityorganisations, yes, they might
employ people, but they moreoften have a large group of
volunteers as well that theyalso rely on to get their work
done and to make the thingshappen that they need for their
clients.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Exactly.
It's a really important part oftheir organisation, so it might
be someone who works once aweek in the op shop or gives out
meals or delivers food packages.
There's a whole raft of thingsthat volunteers do in our
society and we wanted to, today,talk about the organisations
and how they can manage thembetter, because I guess the key
(03:19):
point to keep in mind, as I'vejust indicated, is that once you
have your volunteers on board,you want to hang on to them
because they're precious right.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So there's a big difference there.
Let's point out the differencesWe've got volunteers and
employees.
Obviously, the big differenceis we're not paying them when
they're a volunteer.
So if you're not paying them,there's no carrot there to sort
of say please stay, because thenI'll keep paying you.
It's a big difference, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I mean we're not saying that everyone works just
for the money.
We hope not, but that's correct.
You know, there's no goldenchain keeping them.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Right, they could just tomorrow wake up and go.
I'm sorry I'm not availableanymore, or no?
I don't want to do that anymore, or I can't like you say.
So, yeah, really critical tokeep hold of them.
I guess there's some otherreally obvious things, somewhat
obvious things.
You know they're not entitledto superannuation then, of
course, because they're notbeing paid.
There's no employment contractlike we're alluding to.
(04:18):
There's no contract that youwill pay them if they do ABC.
There's no contract there.
It's often informal in ways,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Well, I guess the closest that you might come to
for some documentation mightjust be a roster.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, or your policies and procedures might
still apply to that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
True, but you're very much relying on the goodwill of
the volunteer to turn up whenthey say they will and do what
you expect.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
And look, when it comes to workers' compensation,
certainly in our state, in NewSouth Wales, some sorts of
organisations like we talkedabout RFS, ses, those sorts of
things they are covered byworkers' comp if you're a
volunteer.
But other organisations, likethe example we spoke about with
a not-for-profit that hasvolunteers in their op shop, for
example they might notnecessarily be covered under
(05:06):
workers' comp.
So make sure you understand thedifference there as well.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So there are quite a few differences.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
But I guess why we're here is because there's a lot
of similarities as well.
Exactly, isn't there?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
But you're working in a completely different context
when you're talking aboutvolunteers.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
But if you need them for your organisation, obviously
you need them for a very goodreason, just like you do need
employees to get tasks done, toprovide service to clients, that
sort of thing.
There's obviously still aprocess to recruit or to find
these people.
It might not be exactly thesame way you do for an employee,
but what do you think there?
(05:42):
How would you go and find avolunteer?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I was afraid you were going to ask me that.
I've just told you that there'sa nationwide shortage of
volunteers.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
How about this?
How did you get sourced foryour board role?
I was asked Okay, yes, apersonal connection.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So part of it's, yeah , identifying people who might
be a good fit, I guess.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But I would say that with a lot of organisations it's
a self-identification processright.
So someone's going to put theirhand up and say, yeah, I'll do
that, or I'd like to help out.
What can I do?
I guess that's one majordifference with employees.
You're probably not likely togo.
Oh well, after you've beenthrough our screening process
(06:30):
well, having said that, thereare screening processes, because
you might have things likeworking with children, check and
police check and things likethat, of course, and we would
recommend that you do those butnot so.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
You have to have all these criteria in terms of
selection criteria, met.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
That's what I meant.
Yeah, yeah okay.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So the volunteer is more sort of as it sounds.
They volunteer that they wantto help, they nominate
themselves that yes, I want todo that because I really align
to that purpose, or I want tohelp out that charity, or I want
to participate in a board orwhatever it is.
People do apply for a job andthat's sort of nominating
themselves as well, but it'smuch more purpose-driven, is
(07:08):
what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I would think so.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But there'd still be an induction process, wouldn't
there?
I?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
would hope so.
So I'm thinking, when you'rebringing a volunteer or an
employee on board, there's a lotof the same information that
you'd be sharing, yeah, yeah thethings that you're not
collecting or sharing orwhatever would be around payroll
, obviously, but apart from that, they'd be subject to the same
(07:32):
policies and procedures.
Yes, the same expectations.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, and we'd encourage you to treat them in
that respect, treat them verysimilarly.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Likewise with training.
I'm thinking that there'sprobably volunteer roles where
in some ways there's extra ordifferent training that you'd be
giving to your volunteersbecause, say, you're in an
organisation where you'reoffering social services, so you
could assume that when youbring in someone a paid employee
(08:02):
into that sort of role, thatthey've got some sort of
training in that field.
Yeah, you can't necessarily inthat field.
Yeah, you can't necessarilyassume that with your volunteers
.
So there might be certainsubtleties around your service
delivery that need to be quiteclearly set out for volunteers.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It does make you wonder and this might be better
in the works but it does beg thequestion of why would we do a
volunteer and not an employee?
Then what's the purpose behindhaving a volunteer as opposed to
just hiring staff?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Well, you know as well as I do that it comes down
to the almighty dollar.
Yes, yeah.
The sort of organisations thatwe're talking about that use
volunteers do that because theycan't afford to hire staff.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
If you're enjoying today's content and you know of
someone else who might benefitfrom it as well, why not tell
them about our podcast?
Simply mention the name WorkWonders Podcast and let them
know.
Work Health and Safety isanother one that is coming to my
mind that they would have to becovered under, like you say,
policies and procedures.
A volunteer would still havethe same rights to a safe
(09:08):
workplace, even though they'renot being paid for it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
They might need training in manual handling and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, the same sort of procedures around risk and
identifying hazards andincidents if they occur and
things like that.
Yeah, they need to be aware ofemergency exits and first aid
kits and all those sorts ofthings as well, just like an
employee would.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So I guess we've pretty much covered bringing
them on board and that sort ofinduction, orientation phase.
Are you going to put avolunteer on probation?
I'm thinking probably not.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
No, I wouldn't.
Could you imagine that.
Thanks so much for coming tohelp.
We'll just see how you go.
Yeah, that wouldn't.
Could you imagine that?
Thanks so much for coming tohelp.
Well, we'll just see how you go.
Yeah that's right.
Look, you may still internallyyou might still assess that.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
That's a conversation you're having with yourself.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, but in terms of that question, look, it's still
important to keep a personaccountable.
We would certainly encourageyou to think about what the
person's doing and what outcomesthey're producing for you.
And, look, if you've had thatconversation of thanks so much,
we'd love you to come in everyweek and work five hours in the
op shop or whatever it isholding them accountable to
(10:16):
making those outcomes orwhatever you're looking for,
yeah, and the whole how we dothings around here type thing.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I think this is a bit of the piece of the puzzle
where a lot of organisations canreally struggle with that
accountability, because you'redealing with people who, through
their own generosity, aregiving you their time and it's
very easy to let little thingsslip by and just accept things
(10:43):
because you're not paying thatperson.
You need their hands, you knowthe effort that they're putting
in, so I can see there'd be atemptation sometimes to just go
oh well, he's a bit whatever orshe's a bit whatever, or doing
this not quite how we want itdone but we'll just let it go.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Just let it go because they're helping us out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that will be very easy to dohow we want it done, but we'll
just let it go.
Let it go because they'rehelping us out.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
yeah, yeah so that will be very easy to do.
However, I and I think, angela-also would like to encourage
people managing volunteers toactually draw a line and make it
clear when something's notquite right and do something
about it, just as you would withemployees and for the same
reason as you would with anemployee, so that you don't have
(11:30):
everyone else thinking what?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
yeah, it's a really it's a fine line, isn't it?
You know it's almost an awkwardplace.
It's very oh, it'd be veryawkward and balancing, you know,
because if it was an employeewe'd be saying to you we'll make
sure you performance managethem.
If they're not achieving ab, band C and you don't want to go
so heavy handed with a volunteer.
But I agree with you it's sonecessary to be on top of what
(11:55):
they're doing for you and treatthem with the mentality of are
they producing what we need?
Are they doing things the waywe do things or according to our
values?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
and so on.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Measuring them with the same stick, so to speak,
because it's just so important,not just for them and for the
outcomes that they're producingand your clients, but also for
the rest of your workforce,including the employees.
We've got an example of anot-for-profit organisation
we've been speaking to recentlywho they do have to draw that
boundary for volunteers so thatthey know very clearly what they
(12:28):
are asked to do and whatthey're not asked to do.
And that might not be an easyconversation to have Maybe it is
, maybe it isn't but it's anecessary one, because if they
stepped into a place where theywere now doing what an employee
would do but they shouldn't beor they're taking over the job
of someone else or they're justa bully and they're making it
hard for everybody else youmight lose some really great
(12:51):
employees or, even worse, awhole bunch of volunteers,
because of one person.
Yeah, so it is worth doing, eventhough it would be really
awkward it doesn't have to beformal because it's just having
that relationship with theperson and you know as we're
always saying communication,communication, communication.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
And I think we'd also both agree early.
You don't let something run onfor weeks or months before you
do something about it.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Because you'd hate to get into the position where you
might come to someone and go.
How do I get rid of a volunteer?
But we've heard it said before,haven't we?
Because that is a reallyawkward place.
So if you're doing these thingsin prevention of that,
hopefully it will never come tothat for you, because it's a
really awkward place to say weno longer need your lovely
(13:39):
spirit and your helpful nature.
Please go and volunteersomewhere else.
You know that would be a reallyhard thing to navigate.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And you also don't want to put people offside by
having other people around themwho make them feel uncomfortable
because you haven't donesomething about it as a manager.
Yeah, so I think there arecertain times, as managers,
where we just have to step up.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
So sometimes I've noticed with volunteers because
I've had contact with severaldifferent organisations that use
volunteers is that you can getsome people who are so
passionate that they're, I guess, self-sacrificing and doing too
much.
You know they might beoverworking or even to the point
(14:27):
of burning themselves outbecause they're trying to do
things everywhere.
They might be volunteering inmultiple organisations and have
a lot of other things going onin their lives.
There might even be some mentalhealth issues.
So these are all things thatyou need to be aware of and
keeping an eye on.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, like overworking or doing it too much
.
If that was an employee, it's alot more strict.
We could say to you pleasedon't let them work more than 10
hours a day or 12 hours a daywhatever it is, and it's a lot
more definitive.
We would encourage you to dothe same with your volunteers.
Don't let them do that.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Try and encourage them to work their hour or work
their schedule as according towhat you need, but not allowing
that sort of overwork to happen,because then you'd creep into,
like you would, employees thework health and safety aspect,
psychosocial safety hazards andthings like that.
So you want to take care ofthem just like you would an
employee.
(15:21):
It's no different.
We shouldn't be abusing theirwillingness to.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Definitely not.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
But it does bring up psychosocial safety.
Has it, though, with the newlegislation that came into play,
Just as important for avolunteer as well, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , you're responsible for looking
after them.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yep.
So exactly the same as whatwe've talked about in a previous
episode that you'd be lookingafter your employees in that way
to provide a safe and healthyand psychologically safe you
know, not exposing them tothings that might cause them
trauma, for example.
Yeah, and if you're not surewhat we're talking about, jump
back to an old episode.
(16:00):
That's season four, episode 10.
Season four, episode 10.
So I guess what we're saying,Susan, if we wrap this all up
into one sort of thought, isthat volunteers have a lot of
similarities to employees and wewould be encouraging you to
think about treating them withthe same as you would an
employee in a lot of ways.
So including them in yourmeetings, including them with
(16:23):
your communications and trainingand all those practices we've
talked about in your meetingsincluding them with your
communications and training, andyou know all those practices
we've talked about, but thereare some fine differences and
fine lines to navigate.
So I wonder if your businessuses volunteers.
Maybe you do.
Maybe this episode's beenhelpful.
Please let us know.
We always love to know what'shit home for you with our
(16:43):
episode.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Maybe you are a volunteer yourself and you've
got your own story to tell us.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
We'd love to know.
Thanks for listening to theWork Wonders podcast brought to
you by Asta HR.
Hit the subscribe button now tonever miss an episode, and if
you'd like to continue theconversation with us, you can
(17:09):
find us over at astahrcomau.
See you in the next episode.
Welcome to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you
by Asta HR, where we simplifythe human side of business.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm Angela and I'm Susan, let's dive into today's
episode and find out what you'vebeen wondering about.
In today's episode, we'retalking all about volunteers.
What counts as a volunteer?
How do we treat volunteers?
What are the differencesbetween volunteers and employees
(00:33):
?
We know a lot of organisationswho are in our circles who are
using volunteers, so what doesthat mean for the organisation
and how you should treat them?
Let's dive in.
This is the Work Wonderspodcast.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Hi Susan, Hi Angela, so we're talking about
volunteers, so right now ourlisteners might be going.
What are they doing?
Because they're not employees.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
No, and this is a topic, though, that we've been
thinking about for a while.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Because you and I each volunteer.
We are yeah, with our localchambers of commerce yeah, and
we're connected to othervolunteers yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
You're also on a board, aren't you Susan?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Exactly so.
If you're doing anything whereyou're giving up your time for
free you're not getting paid forit then obviously you're
volunteering.
And I think what really broughtthis to mind for me recently is
the statistics have been comingout about the shortages of
volunteers.
So apparently the baby boomersfor all their faults and I say
(01:38):
that as a baby boomer they dogive up a lot of time to
volunteering whereas the youngergenerations don't now.
So part of that is cost ofliving.
You might be working two jobsto pay your mortgage.
There's a lot of reasons whyyounger people don't volunteer.
They're raising children andall the rest of it, but what
that's resulting in is ageneration of volunteers that
(02:01):
are, let's face it, reaching apoint where they may not be able
to do the things that they weredoing before, especially if
we're talking about jobs in RFS,for example, ses, you know so,
those physically demanding jobs.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
So these are the sorts of organisations that
we're talking about.
The RFS is a great example, SES, Surf, Life Saving.
They're all really obviouslyrelying upon volunteers to get
their work done.
But there are other examples,like you said, being on a board
or in our local chambers orother groups community groups
they're all volunteer.
But other organisations thatwe've worked with and we know of
(02:39):
, like not-for-profit charityorganisations, yes, they might
employ people, but they moreoften have a large group of
volunteers as well that theyalso rely on to get their work
done and to make the thingshappen that they need for their
clients.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Exactly.
It's a really important part oftheir organisation, so it might
be someone who works once aweek in the op shop or gives out
meals or delivers food packages.
There's a whole raft of thingsthat volunteers do in our
society and we wanted to, today,talk about the organisations
and how they can manage thembetter, because I guess the key
(03:19):
point to keep in mind, as I'vejust indicated, is that once you
have your volunteers on board,you want to hang on to them
because they're precious right.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
So there's a big difference there.
Let's point out the differencesWe've got volunteers and
employees.
Obviously, the big differenceis we're not paying them when
they're a volunteer.
So if you're not paying them,there's no carrot there to sort
of say please stay, because thenI'll keep paying you.
It's a big difference, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
I mean we're not saying that everyone works just
for the money.
We hope not, but that's correct.
You know, there's no goldenchain keeping them.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Right, they could just tomorrow wake up and go.
I'm sorry I'm not availableanymore, or no?
I don't want to do that anymore, or I can't like you say.
So, yeah, really critical tokeep hold of them.
I guess there's some otherreally obvious things, somewhat
obvious things.
You know they're not entitledto superannuation then, of
course, because they're notbeing paid.
There's no employment contractlike we're alluding to.
(04:18):
There's no contract that youwill pay them if they do ABC.
There's no contract there.
It's often informal in ways,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Well, I guess the closest that you might come to
for some documentation mightjust be a roster.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, or your policies and procedures might
still apply to that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
True, but you're very much relying on the goodwill of
the volunteer to turn up whenthey say they will and do what
you expect.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
And look, when it comes to workers' compensation,
certainly in our state, in NewSouth Wales, some sorts of
organisations like we talkedabout RFS, ses, those sorts of
things they are covered byworkers' comp if you're a
volunteer.
But other organisations, likethe example we spoke about with
a not-for-profit that hasvolunteers in their op shop, for
example they might notnecessarily be covered under
(05:06):
workers' comp.
So make sure you understand thedifference there as well.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
So there are quite a few differences.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
But I guess why we're here is because there's a lot
of similarities as well.
Exactly, isn't there?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
But you're working in a completely different context
when you're talking aboutvolunteers.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
But if you need them for your organisation, obviously
you need them for a very goodreason, just like you do need
employees to get tasks done, toprovide service to clients, that
sort of thing.
There's obviously still aprocess to recruit or to find
these people.
It might not be exactly thesame way you do for an employee,
but what do you think there?
(05:42):
How would you go and find avolunteer?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I was afraid you were going to ask me that.
I've just told you that there'sa nationwide shortage of
volunteers.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
How about this?
How did you get sourced foryour board role?
I was asked Okay, yes, apersonal connection.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
So part of it's, yeah , identifying people who might
be a good fit, I guess.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
But I would say that with a lot of organisations it's
a self-identification processright.
So someone's going to put theirhand up and say, yeah, I'll do
that, or I'd like to help out.
What can I do?
I guess that's one majordifference with employees.
You're probably not likely togo.
Oh well, after you've beenthrough our screening process
(06:30):
well, having said that, thereare screening processes, because
you might have things likeworking with children, check and
police check and things likethat, of course, and we would
recommend that you do those butnot so.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
You have to have all these criteria in terms of
selection criteria, met.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
That's what I meant.
Yeah, yeah okay.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
So the volunteer is more sort of as it sounds.
They volunteer that they wantto help, they nominate
themselves that yes, I want todo that because I really align
to that purpose, or I want tohelp out that charity, or I want
to participate in a board orwhatever it is.
People do apply for a job andthat's sort of nominating
themselves as well, but it'smuch more purpose-driven, is
(07:08):
what I'm hearing.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
I would think so.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
But there'd still be an induction process, wouldn't
there?
I?
Speaker 2 (07:12):
would hope so.
So I'm thinking, when you'rebringing a volunteer or an
employee on board, there's a lotof the same information that
you'd be sharing, yeah, yeah thethings that you're not
collecting or sharing orwhatever would be around payroll
, obviously, but apart from that, they'd be subject to the same
(07:32):
policies and procedures.
Yes, the same expectations.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, and we'd encourage you to treat them in
that respect, treat them verysimilarly.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Likewise with training.
I'm thinking that there'sprobably volunteer roles where
in some ways there's extra ordifferent training that you'd be
giving to your volunteersbecause, say, you're in an
organisation where you'reoffering social services, so you
could assume that when youbring in someone a paid employee
(08:02):
into that sort of role, thatthey've got some sort of
training in that field.
Yeah, you can't necessarily inthat field.
Yeah, you can't necessarilyassume that with your volunteers
.
So there might be certainsubtleties around your service
delivery that need to be quiteclearly set out for volunteers.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
It does make you wonder and this might be better
in the works but it does beg thequestion of why would we do a
volunteer and not an employee?
Then what's the purpose behindhaving a volunteer as opposed to
just hiring staff?
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Well, you know as well as I do that it comes down
to the almighty dollar.
Yes, yeah.
The sort of organisations thatwe're talking about that use
volunteers do that because theycan't afford to hire staff.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
If you're enjoying today's content and you know of
someone else who might benefitfrom it as well, why not tell
them about our podcast?
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know.
Work Health and Safety isanother one that is coming to my
mind that they would have to becovered under, like you say,
policies and procedures.
A volunteer would still havethe same rights to a safe
(09:08):
workplace, even though they'renot being paid for it.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
They might need training in manual handling and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, the same sort of procedures around risk and
identifying hazards andincidents if they occur and
things like that.
Yeah, they need to be aware ofemergency exits and first aid
kits and all those sorts ofthings as well, just like an
employee would.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
So I guess we've pretty much covered bringing
them on board and that sort ofinduction, orientation phase.
Are you going to put avolunteer on probation?
I'm thinking probably not.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
No, I wouldn't.
Could you imagine that.
Thanks so much for coming tohelp.
We'll just see how you go.
Yeah, that wouldn't.
Could you imagine that?
Thanks so much for coming tohelp.
Well, we'll just see how you go.
Yeah that's right.
Look, you may still internallyyou might still assess that.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
That's a conversation you're having with yourself.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, but in terms of that question, look, it's still
important to keep a personaccountable.
We would certainly encourageyou to think about what the
person's doing and what outcomesthey're producing for you.
And, look, if you've had thatconversation of thanks so much,
we'd love you to come in everyweek and work five hours in the
op shop or whatever it isholding them accountable to
(10:16):
making those outcomes orwhatever you're looking for,
yeah, and the whole how we dothings around here type thing.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
I think this is a bit of the piece of the puzzle
where a lot of organisations canreally struggle with that
accountability, because you'redealing with people who, through
their own generosity, aregiving you their time and it's
very easy to let little thingsslip by and just accept things
(10:43):
because you're not paying thatperson.
You need their hands, you knowthe effort that they're putting
in, so I can see there'd be atemptation sometimes to just go
oh well, he's a bit whatever orshe's a bit whatever, or doing
this not quite how we want itdone but we'll just let it go.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Just let it go because they're helping us out.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that will be very easy to dohow we want it done, but we'll
just let it go.
Let it go because they'rehelping us out.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
yeah, yeah so that will be very easy to do.
However, I and I think, angela-also would like to encourage
people managing volunteers toactually draw a line and make it
clear when something's notquite right and do something
about it, just as you would withemployees and for the same
reason as you would with anemployee, so that you don't have
(11:30):
everyone else thinking what?
Speaker 1 (11:33):
yeah, it's a really it's a fine line, isn't it?
You know it's almost an awkwardplace.
It's very oh, it'd be veryawkward and balancing, you know,
because if it was an employeewe'd be saying to you we'll make
sure you performance managethem.
If they're not achieving ab, band C and you don't want to go
so heavy handed with a volunteer.
But I agree with you it's sonecessary to be on top of what
(11:55):
they're doing for you and treatthem with the mentality of are
they producing what we need?
Are they doing things the waywe do things or according to our
values?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
and so on.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Measuring them with the same stick, so to speak,
because it's just so important,not just for them and for the
outcomes that they're producingand your clients, but also for
the rest of your workforce,including the employees.
We've got an example of anot-for-profit organisation
we've been speaking to recentlywho they do have to draw that
boundary for volunteers so thatthey know very clearly what they
(12:28):
are asked to do and whatthey're not asked to do.
And that might not be an easyconversation to have Maybe it is
, maybe it isn't but it's anecessary one, because if they
stepped into a place where theywere now doing what an employee
would do but they shouldn't beor they're taking over the job
of someone else or they're justa bully and they're making it
hard for everybody else youmight lose some really great
(12:51):
employees or, even worse, awhole bunch of volunteers,
because of one person.
Yeah, so it is worth doing, eventhough it would be really
awkward it doesn't have to beformal because it's just having
that relationship with theperson and you know as we're
always saying communication,communication, communication.
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
And I think we'd also both agree early.
You don't let something run onfor weeks or months before you
do something about it.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Because you'd hate to get into the position where you
might come to someone and go.
How do I get rid of a volunteer?
But we've heard it said before,haven't we?
Because that is a reallyawkward place.
So if you're doing these thingsin prevention of that,
hopefully it will never come tothat for you, because it's a
really awkward place to say weno longer need your lovely
(13:39):
spirit and your helpful nature.
Please go and volunteersomewhere else.
You know that would be a reallyhard thing to navigate.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
And you also don't want to put people offside by
having other people around themwho make them feel uncomfortable
because you haven't donesomething about it as a manager.
Yeah, so I think there arecertain times, as managers,
where we just have to step up.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
So sometimes I've noticed with volunteers because
I've had contact with severaldifferent organisations that use
volunteers is that you can getsome people who are so
passionate that they're, I guess, self-sacrificing and doing too
much.
You know they might beoverworking or even to the point
(14:27):
of burning themselves outbecause they're trying to do
things everywhere.
They might be volunteering inmultiple organisations and have
a lot of other things going onin their lives.
There might even be some mentalhealth issues.
So these are all things thatyou need to be aware of and
keeping an eye on.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, like overworking or doing it too much
.
If that was an employee, it's alot more strict.
We could say to you pleasedon't let them work more than 10
hours a day or 12 hours a daywhatever it is, and it's a lot
more definitive.
We would encourage you to dothe same with your volunteers.
Don't let them do that.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Try and encourage them to work their hour or work
their schedule as according towhat you need, but not allowing
that sort of overwork to happen,because then you'd creep into,
like you would, employees thework health and safety aspect,
psychosocial safety hazards andthings like that.
So you want to take care ofthem just like you would an
employee.
(15:21):
It's no different.
We shouldn't be abusing theirwillingness to.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Definitely not.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
But it does bring up psychosocial safety.
Has it, though, with the newlegislation that came into play,
Just as important for avolunteer as well, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , you're responsible for looking
after them.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yep.
So exactly the same as whatwe've talked about in a previous
episode that you'd be lookingafter your employees in that way
to provide a safe and healthyand psychologically safe you
know, not exposing them tothings that might cause them
trauma, for example.
Yeah, and if you're not surewhat we're talking about, jump
back to an old episode.
(16:00):
That's season four, episode 10.
Season four, episode 10.
So I guess what we're saying,Susan, if we wrap this all up
into one sort of thought, isthat volunteers have a lot of
similarities to employees and wewould be encouraging you to
think about treating them withthe same as you would an
employee in a lot of ways.
So including them in yourmeetings, including them with
(16:23):
your communications and trainingand all those practices we've
talked about in your meetingsincluding them with your
communications and training, andyou know all those practices
we've talked about, but thereare some fine differences and
fine lines to navigate.
So I wonder if your businessuses volunteers.
Maybe you do.
Maybe this episode's beenhelpful.
Please let us know.
We always love to know what'shit home for you with our
(16:43):
episode.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Maybe you are a volunteer yourself and you've
got your own story to tell us.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
We'd love to know.
Thanks for listening to theWork Wonders podcast brought to
you by Asta HR.
Hit the subscribe button now tonever miss an episode, and if
you'd like to continue theconversation with us, you can
(17:09):
find us over at astahrcomau.
See you in the next episode.
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