April 14, 2024 • 28 mins
In this episode we spoke with Sheila Cabacungan, founder of The Wealth Forum and Co-Founder of Mentor to Mentor Connect & Learn.
We plan a lot of things in business, we plan our finances, our goals, even our holidays…but as a business owner, have you set a plan for the end of your business or the end point for yourself in your business?
This was such a great conversation that gave some many nuggets of gold as the conversation unfolded, that even our guest walked away with some light bulb moments.
Listen in as Sheila takes us through the 8 steps to get a business that doesn’t rely on you.
To find out more about Sheila here's her links:
The Wealth Forum Facebook page
The Wealth Forum LinkedIn page
The Wealth Forum website
Mentor to Mentor Connect & Learn website
Mentor to Mentor Connect & Learn Facebook page
Mentor to Mentor Connect & Learn LinkedIn page
You can find the show notes for this episode here
Would you like to submit a question to the show? Let us know on our website or via LinkedIn.
Brought to you by Aster HR, the Work Wonders Podcast is hosted by Angela Gauci & Susan Rochester and is recorded at Launch Pad at Western Sydney University.
All information or advice included in this podcast is general, has been developed as a starting point for your business, and should be tailored to your specific requirements. It should not be considered legal advice. We have made every attempt to ensure the accuracy and currency of this information at the time of recording. However, references to things like employment laws are subject to change. For specific advice relating to your business, please get in touch with us.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you
by Asta HR, where we simplifythe human side of business.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm Angela and I'm Susan, let's dive into today's
episode and find out what you'vebeen wondering about.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Today it's interview time and we were pleased to
welcome to the studio todaySheila Kabakungen.
She's a financial planner andher business is the Wealth Forum
.
She's also a business mentorand she's co-founded Mentor to
Mentor Connect and Learn.
We had a great conversation intoday's interview.
We talked about planning aheadfor your business, including
even the exit strategy thatmight suit you when the time
(00:43):
comes, and Sheila took usthrough the eight steps to get
your business to be runningsmoothly without you in it.
So let's get started.
This is the Work Wonderspodcast.
Hi, susan.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Hello Angela.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We're back in the studio for another guest
interview today, and today wehave Sheila.
Hello, hi there, sheila.
Thanks for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Great to have you along.
Thank you so, sheila.
We usually start off theseinterviews by asking people how
did they get to where they aretoday?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
What's your story?
What's my story?
I run a couple of businessesand I kind of found myself 18
years in business now.
Financial planning is prettymuch what the profession looks
like, and I did start out as afinancial planner working for
some large organisations, but Ialways knew in the back of my
head that I would end up out onmy own, and this year would mark
(01:38):
the 14th year.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I'll actually be a self-employed, self-licensed
financial planner.
I work out at Sydney's Westlooking after, basically,
clients who are small businessowners.
That's the passion and thatreally has a lot to do with how
I was brought up the good, thebad and the ugly of that
particular upbringing, where Ireally really wanted to
understand how money worked inthe context of a small family
(02:02):
business.
So we did everything.
We had high, highs and low,lows and all sorts of other
stuff in the context of a smallfamily business.
So we did everything.
We had high, highs and low,lows and all sorts of other
stuff in the middle.
And I guess what I'm seeing nowas a business owner is that
story really hasn't changed muchand it probably hasn't changed
for centuries.
It's just the circumstances andthe times that we find
ourselves in and that oneparticular business and that
profession has spawned into acouple of other things that I've
done largely through the COVIDyears.
(02:23):
So I definitely started doing alot more business advisory and
mentoring and also partneringwith one of my absolute mentors
who I would basically would goand watch open an envelope we
started a mentoring businesstogether, mentor to Mentor,
connect and Learns.
Just in the last, just coming upto our first year.
It complements what I'm doingwith financial planning,
complements with what I'm doingin the business advisory and
(02:46):
mentoring space with New SouthWales Business Connect.
So, even though on the surfacewhen I talked about what I do
and how I do things, it lookslike a big three ring circus,
but, trust me, there's me in themiddle of all that, basically
living into what it is that I'mpassionate about and what I want
to do and what I want to leavebehind when I'm no longer on
this earth.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It sounds like sorry.
What you're doing is all reallyconnected to your purpose.
Yeah, and that gives you theenergy for it all.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, absolutely, because I think it's got to come
from somewhere deeper than justthe money, right?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
And I think we came about with this discussion
around.
Well, how do you actually get abusiness that doesn't
necessarily have to work withyou in it?
That's it, and that's theprecursor to making sure that
you can leave something behindat the end of the day, whether
that's you sell a business oryou just be able to move and go
and do something else that feedsyour passion and your soul.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
I was going to ask you, Sheila, is there one thing
that seems to be a recurringmessage that you're giving to
your clients around thefinancial stability for their
businesses?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I think the key to all stability is making sure
that your business can actuallywork, whether you're in it or
not, because we're the founders,we have all the hustle, we have
all the passion, we have allthe skill.
A lot of the time we think wecan control it all and that we
can't do things like delegate orwe don't want to lose the
control.
And that's the to and that'sthe reason why we got into
(04:05):
business right To be able to runour own shows, control our own
time, control every aspect in aworld that's really
uncontrollable.
And I think what COVID did wasbasically disrupt everything
that we ever thought we knewabout ourselves and our business
.
And what I'm finding is arecurring theme is people are
doing that, searching now to say, well, all right, this is where
I actually am, where is it thatI actually want to be, and how
(04:26):
do I get there?
And is what I'm doing right noweven going to get me there?
And it's thrown open a wholelot of other stuff.
And one of the themes I'm seeingfrom the financial aspects of
running a business is first off,you've got to make sure that
the machine that exists rightnow to run the business, the
actual business itself is goingthat there's enough cash flow
coming through and cash flowgoing out, but beyond that, it's
(04:46):
what's this thing going to befor?
Because ultimately, I've got ahundred years.
Every one of us has probablyonly got a hundred years, and if
I'm halfway through that, thenI need to make some decisions
about what's going to happenwith me.
What do I want in the nearfuture and how am I going to get
what I've got to that pointwhere I can actually realise it
Interesting, yeah.
So I know these are bigquestions, but when it comes
(05:08):
down to the business owner, it'show do you actually get a
business that can?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
function whether you are there running it or not.
Do you enjoy listening to ourinterview episodes?
As you can tell, angela and Ireally enjoy making them, so
we're always on the lookout forinteresting people we can
interview.
If you or someone you knowwould make a great guest for us,
please get in touch.
You can contact us through ourwebsite at astrohrcomau, or via
(05:38):
LinkedIn.
We're always happy to have achat about what we might be able
to discuss.
That can both inform ourlisteners and help you to reach
a wider audience.
Now let's get back to theepisode.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And that's an interesting thought, because I
hear so often from smallbusiness owners that they're the
one doing the doing, wearingall the hats.
You know, when you're asolopreneur, it's absolutely the
case, and as you start to grow,it can be really hard to let go
of those hats, can't you?
But often it's not achievablefor someone to have expertise in
all those areas.
So, yeah, it's interesting tohear you say, but it's about
(06:14):
learning to let go of thatcontrol or finding ways for the
business to work without you,because if you're the one doing
everything, it does rely solelyon you.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, or you have all of that, all of the knowledge
is sitting in your head, all thedreams, the visions, the plans
and everything else are all inyour head and until you actually
start to speak and share it.
So that's the first thing Imean.
If I look at the eight thingsthat business owners can
actually do to get a businessthat doesn't rely on them,
that's number one Actually planand set goals.
But yes, plan and set goals,but actually put them down on
(06:43):
something so that if you keep bybus, someone else knows what's
going on and, like you know, youcan have all those cliches and
all those memes that say, if youdon't plan, you fail, and all
that sort of stuff.
You don't have to plan tosucceed.
You can get by on sheer luckand hard work.
But at some point in timeyou're going to want a different
result, even if the results arefailure.
(07:07):
Then you just pick up and goagain, but most often it's going
to be a success or a differentversion of a success.
That's the first one plan.
The other one is and I'm guiltyof this too identifying and
actually writing down systemsand procedures, or creating
systems and procedures.
And I know you two are massiveon that, because those human
relationships that we have tohave when we are employing
(07:28):
someone or even contractingsomeone or using a supplier,
they're all based on two peoplein a relationship actually
understanding what's expected,being able to hold each other to
account, right the rules, tofight and play fair.
You guys are the referees for alot of that within employment.
But the communication has to beembedded in some sort of living
document or a living knowledgeof what's expected and what
(07:50):
happens when you don't meetthose expectations and all that
sort of stuff.
Documenting is the other one.
So if it's like planning andthen getting the systems and
processes but then actuallyputting them down in writing is
the third one, and then gettingthe people to actually believe
your vision and work for you.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
We had this discussion earlier, didn't we,
about how?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
do we actually get people to buy into your business
beyond the paycheck?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So yeah, have you ever heard it said Susan, you
know why did you apply for thisjob?
And you've heard someone say oh, because I needed one.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Or it's close to home , or I wanted part-time, or I
wanted remote work.
Yes, making it all about whatthey want.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Fairly uninspiring, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But then maybe they haven't met the employer who's
inspired them.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, oh, yeah, I love that, or even before that,
like the employee who actuallyhas an expectation of what that
person needs to do for the timeand the money that they're being
paid for.
Such an interesting thing tothink about, isn't it Because a
lot of us will have such aninnate thing of oh, recruitment
is, I need someone with A, B andC qualifications or X amount of
experience and, oh well, ifthey turn up and do the job,
(08:55):
they're doing the job, aren'tthey?
Well, no, maybe not.
So it's a really interestingthing to flip that on its head
and question are they reallyinterested in the purpose of
what we're doing, and are theyhere for the right reasons, and
are they giving me the outputsthat I'm essentially buying by?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
paying them.
Oh wow, that's cool.
That's the first time I'veheard it put that way, Because I
made a massive mistake inrecruitment very early on, when
I was starting out in financialplanning and did my first hire
where I genuinely believed thehire, I had had the right skill
set and completely bought intowhat I was trying to create from
my vision point of view.
But you know where I fell down?
I didn't know what I wantedthem to do and I had no way of
(09:35):
being able to relinquish thetrust and control issues I had
to be able to give them enoughto do so they left because they
were bored, because I wouldn'teven trust them with scanning
and photocopying at one point.
You know what I mean.
So that's been a constant thingfor me is to have, like, I'm
not the best scanner andphotocopier, and even if I am,
should I be doing that?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Exactly.
Yeah, and it's funny like Ichuckled at that, but really
you're not alone there.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
No, I think that's a common thing, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, we've all done it.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Oh gosh and I mean that's the thing too that this
particular employee, who I'mstill friends with, goes.
I would have done anything youwanted me to do, because I
totally believed in what youwere doing, but you just
honestly didn't have anythingfor me to do.
So I got your vision.
Now we have to help you getthose systems, processes,
procedures in place so someonecan actually act out or
implement that for you.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So then you can go off and do you know your rock
star Taylor Swift, beyonce thing, because that's what you you
know that's Love it.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
You can bring that in , yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But someone needs to manage your calendar and someone
needs to Exactly so that's.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, I'm taking all of that on and setting those
expectations, yeah, and holdingpeople accountable as.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
We completely know what we're doing.
We're completely, you know,we're great at what we do and
there's no way that we would beable to be able to demonstrate
that we are having a bad day orthere's no, all that sort of
stuff Like.
I find that a real challengetoo, that people expect you,
particularly in social land,social media or.
LinkedIn in particular, that you, you know you have to show your
best side and I guess that'sfrom a business owner's point of
(11:11):
view that has to be a reasonwhy businesses feel like they
can't grow, because it's justall in the founder to be all of
the things and to represent thebusiness and the brand so much.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Well, I'm a big believer that small, medium, big
, we all essentially do the samething in terms of framework of
business.
If you sort of wanted to pullit apart and go well, everyone
does marketing, everyone doesfinance, everyone does a bit of
HR, depending how big yourbusiness is.
You know it's just to whatscale.
Yeah, but really, and how canwe be expected to do it all
(11:42):
until you start to, like you say, think about moving that on and
passing it on to differentpeople or outsourcing it,
whatever it may be?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, I mean it's the whole building of the trust and
accountability in what you know, you know right, and what you
don't know, you don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
That's right, because you can't be the best at
everything.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And then it's trusting when you put yourself
out there and say, okay, I needto work with a digital marketing
specialist or a human resourcesspecialist or a whole bunch of
specialists, is that they're notgoing to?
This is what I hear from mybusiness owners a lot.
How do I make sure that Iactually don't blow my money on
something?
Because, there's not a lot of it.
So they're coming from ascarcity mentality already
because they've done a couple oftough years or made some bad
(12:22):
calls in the past, and thatreally does play around with the
ability to then go.
Well, I could outsource it or Icould just do it myself and
just fumble along, and if it'smy stuff up, it's my stuff up,
but I haven't thrown money at itas well.
So I haven't lost money as well, and it limits, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I mean, I'm in that boat right now too.
I'm about to potentially hire avirtual assistant, but it's
taken me three years to get tothe point where I can actually
say here's what I need them todo in order for me to do, you
know, that dream of a businessthat's largely automated on the
financial planning side so I cango off and do other things.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I think you have to ask yourself what's it costing
you to be doing that work thatyou know you can now get someone
else to do, and then it'sknowing what value you bring to
your business.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, I think everybody has a reason why they
started business.
Maybe it's a passion, aprofession, a skill, a product
that they've got an idea of thatthey can do better than anybody
else, or whatever it is.
If you know what it is that youbring to your business, is it
(13:26):
that you are a really greatmasseur and you need to do that
part of the business but youneed someone to do the admin
side because that's not yourstrength?
Or whatever it is.
I think leaning into what's thebest part that you can bring to
the business and letting go ofthe stuff that you perhaps are
not so great at.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, what I've done lately is every time I go and do
something that I know in my gutand in my head I'm going.
Oh, I can't do this.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I actually just write it down that goes into the job
description for the new person.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
That's your big tip then, if you're wanting to get
out of the business to a certainextent, you've got to start
documenting the stuff that yougenuinely don't like to do and
the stuff that you genuinelyshouldn't be doing, because you
know that it's just putting offsomething else.
Exactly, invoicing is a big onethat I hear from my clients.
Like I'll always have a look attheir financials and what's
going on in their money andthey'll say to me, oh, there's
not enough of it.
(14:14):
And then I'll look at unpackwhat they've been doing.
Yes, I'll go all right, sowhere's you?
Did all these jobs and like ittook you three weeks to get in
front of me because you were sobusy.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So where's the invoices?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Oh that, well, that might be why.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's areally common one.
I was literally at dinner withsome our mentoring group
actually and three people inthat same room said that they
had not invoiced for at leasttwo weeks and I was like geez
hand up.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I haven't done that because you did the doing and
then you go oh, that's right,yeah, give me a minute, and how
long does it take to send aninvoice?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yeah, sometimes I think we over-engineer it.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
You spend more time thinking about doing it than
just doing it.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
And like you think about it, right, if you actually
buy something from any onlinestore, you've paid for that
thing before it's even come out,exactly Right, and you just
play catch up.
Or you just have to address thecustomer service issues if it
doesn't land on your step, butyou've paid for it because
you've already committed to thetransaction of that particular
good or service.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So why aren't we doing that in business?
I think there's probably anumber of reasons.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Because I think a lot of small business, especially
the ones in our circle, ladies,who would have that same issue,
and I wonder if the questionshould be well, how are we
getting the money in beyonddoing the best job possible at
the time that we're doing thejob, or providing the service,
providing the product?
What's the strategy there?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
What's the?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
strategy to get the money in.
Every time I think about that.
That 90s quote.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Linda Evangelista, those supermodels that said that
I don't get out of bed for$10,000 a year, I go.
Well, there's a woman who knows.
There's a woman who knows.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
There's a woman who oh a day.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
It's not even a year.
Oh my gosh $10,000 a day, rightshe goes.
She knew her worth.
We're asking for a couple ofhundred dollars for an invoice
fulfilled or a product, or up tothousands of dollars.
Is it coming down to worth orbeing able to demonstrate worth?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Not necessarily to the customer, but to ourselves.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Oh my gosh ladies.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I Sorry to the customer, no to ourselves.
Oh my gosh, ladies, I'm a goosebumpy.
How did you get into yourbusiness?
Sometimes it's because you'regreat at a particular thing or
you've got a passion forsomething and you know that you
can do it a little better thanwhat other people are already
doing.
Now that you're in business,you've discovered there's a lot
more to it than just having theright skills, especially when
(16:34):
you've hired a team.
You might have learnt thefinancial skills that you need
because you had to, basically,but where do you go to develop
the HR and the leadership skillsthat you need?
If you're feeling overwhelmedin managing people and all the
other things that come withrunning a business, we can help
you.
We'll guide you through theskills you need to feel more
confident in leadership.
(16:55):
Go and check out the coachingpage on our website or schedule
a call with us at astorhrcomau.
Now it's back to the episode.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
If you think about it in the context of how do I
actually get myself out of thebusiness and have it running
without me, there's a little bitof it.
I can't, I don't want to let go, because so much of me is
actually my self-worth is thebusiness and I am a whatever you
are and that is who I am.
It's part of my identity.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Exactly.
That's why I always believethat you should have.
Once you start a business, youneed to have your exit strategy.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Don't you reckon?
Every single business owner hasheard that in one form or
another and like?
The one question we all askourselves is I'm never going to
leave.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Well, that's ages away.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
That's years, decades away, that's ages away.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, or I've no idea , but isn't that really what you
should be working towards thewhole time?
Will you want to be finishingat the best possible position
you want to be in?
You know whether it be fiveyears, 10 years, 20 years?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
And does it come down to a financial planning aspect
as well, sheila?
I mean, if you're a businessowner, do you have
superannuation, or is yourbusiness going to be your
retirement plan, and what isthat plan?
I wonder how many businessowners have asked their question
themselves of that.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I don't think they ask it.
One of the common threads I seewith most people's business
journey and I'm nosy by nature-I always love to come from
curiosity or gossip.
I will sit there and listen topeople's business stories and
how they started and all thatsort of stuff and get completely
inspired and enthralled by itall.
But it comes to that certainpoint when you start to actually
(18:37):
push into well, what's next?
What's next?
What's next?
Love the past stuff because ittells me how you got here and
what makes you tick.
But you now want a differentresult or you want validation of
more of the same right.
There's only two reasons whyyou tell your story you want to
be seen, you want to be heard,you want to be accepted, right?
Or you want to be challengedand pushed into a different
direction.
(18:57):
So you want someone to comealong and help you change your
story.
But what I'm finding is thatmost people don't have an end in
mind, and it was the one thingto say, yes, I want to sell this
business, or I don't want tosell this business, but most
genuinely don't know how thewhole thing's going to end,
right?
We all love taking ourselvesdown and taking everyone else
down, but it's theacknowledgement of wow, you've
done not too badly and youhaven't even had a plan or a
(19:18):
strategy, or you just got hereby luck or good fortune or
something innate in who you arethat has had people following
you and just believing in whatyou're doing and just giving you
money for what you do.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It's such an interesting thought really
because, as the business owner,we started with all the great
intentions and off it goes andif you're lucky, your business
might snowball into somethingbigger but really asking
yourself the question of what'sthe end goal for you personally.
The business might continue,you might just sell it or
whatever it may be.
But yeah, that's a reallyinteresting thought and it's
(19:52):
similar in the way of successionplanning, when you're thinking
about a team as well andresourcing the business to keep
continuing.
It's sort of doing that withyourself as the resource.
How is the business going tocontinue without you all?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Because the business has to continue, doesn't it?
And it has to grow in some form.
Not every business has to scaleand grow, and you know, take on
, become multi-employee empiresand all that sort of stuff.
But there has to be some sort ofgrowth, because the system that
we work in requires growth.
It requires us to at least keepgoing, keep moving forward, but
it also doesn't require us toend, so there is no actual end
(20:27):
point.
To be honest with you in termsof the last five years, with my
clients who've walked away frombusiness either positively or
negatively, has not been aconscious decision to sell or a
conscious decision to end.
It's been taken away from them.
The choice is gone becauseeither circumstances, trade the
COVID stuff has killed off a lotof businesses Health is another
(20:49):
major one, and believe it ornot.
Breakdowns in majorrelationships take a business
out.
So that's what I'm finding thatthere was no planning involved
in a takedown.
A lot of the time I'm dealingwith one client out of maybe the
last 12 where a business hashad to shut, only one is a
viable sale on the market readyto go A choice to sell the
(21:09):
business rather than to shut itdown and walk away.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Wow Well it's you know, some of it has been okay,
we were just lucky enough, or wedon't have to work anymore, or
something's taken them out, andit's not necessarily a failure
on their part, but one sale.
So if that's the myth that weall follow, that our business is
a superannuation, even that onesale isn't going to be enough
for them to live on.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
They've had to consciously build wells outside
to be able to do it, and none ofus can predict what the
market's going to do.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Well, I think one of the things that we can probably
look at in terms of businessowners and making this whole
journey of succession and growtha little bit easier is to
actually see that, becausebusinesses have to keep going,
it's how do we keep going?
And again, using COVID, thegreat disruptor, we all had to
look at the way that we wererunning our businesses and at
least adapt.
(21:58):
Our use of technology justamplified.
We need those positive forcesof innovation coming through.
The last three years havetaught me that I have to look at
new ways of doing the samething.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
We have to remember that innovation is that as well
as doing something completelydifferent.
So you know, sometimes I thinkwe believe that you know,
innovation is that hugebreakthrough, but not
necessarily it can beincremental, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
But the thing is, every business owner needs a
tribe around them and that's atribe of people who they can
actually go to to say I'm havinga bad day or I'm having an
awesome success story, andyou're either my suppliers,
you're my customers.
That's tribe.
But then there's the advisoryboard, your inner circle, that
tribal council, and my tribalcouncil has basically grown as
(22:50):
I've grown the business and youguys would know who would make
up a great tribal council.
It's your money team, it's yourpeople team, it's your tools
and resources team, right andacross all of that, making sure
that they actually know whatyou're about and how you're
supporting them.
They're supporting you that'sthe only way to get the business
growing beyond you.
(23:10):
Even if it's just you in thebusiness, I know I can go to you
guys when I take on this v andmake sure that, even if they're
an overseas resource, how do Iactually start to make sure that
I'm not doing the wrong thing?
by ah, here, yeah, yeah, I agree, and even all of the general
stuff that we talk about, that Iuse you guys as sounding board
for my clients, lovely as theygo on their business journeys
and they're, you know, dealingwith things like flexibility, I
(23:33):
know that's one of the things.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
And the work from home versus you know the work
from the office thing and theliabilities on the employer side
.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
I know you, Angela, you and I talk about that quite
a bit.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yes, yeah, yeah, it's quite a topical one at the
moment, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, but it's such unknown territory and you can't
rely on your own self for that.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
No.
And one of the big things Susanand I say all the time and we
tell our clients is you can't doit on your own.
You shouldn't have to.
You deserve that expert supportwhen you need it, whether it's
a financial support, likeyourself or, you know, legal
support or someone like Susanand I.
You deserve that.
You can't do it all yourself.
(24:09):
You know you do need someone tolean on, if it is even just
that sounding board.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I love how you said that, because I just lit up when
you said you deserve thesupport and you.
Susan said something aboutworthiness and the fact that if
we are running these businessesand they are a reflection of who
we are and our ego and ourpride, and even our insecurities
and our imposter syndromebusiness is a pure reflection of
who you are.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
But we've got to find a way to cut through it so that
it grows beyond ourselves.
So I'll go through all of thoseeight points, because I know
I've kind of gone on differenttangents, but there is rhyme to
reason, I'm sure.
The first one is to plan and setgoals.
So I think that goes withoutsaying.
We all know to do that, but Iguess, find a structure that's
(24:52):
going to make you do it.
So, while we know it in theory,it's the practice, the practice
, the practice.
So, whether it's something likethat business model canvas or
something that's going to haveyou take your business, stick it
up on a whiteboard and thenstart to unpack it and start to
plan and set those goals.
The second one is to identifyand simplify any processes and
procedures that have to happen,regardless of whether you do
(25:14):
them or not.
Like so, get it out of yourhead what you do in your
business.
And the third one is todocument everything, because I
have that whole.
If you get hit by a bus, who'sgoing to know what to do?
Yeah, in every aspect of yourlife, particularly the financial
planning.
You and your person all the waythrough to.
Well, how do you turn thecoffee machine on?
Yeah, in the office.
(25:35):
Or how do you unlock yourvirtual office.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And it makes that easier as you start to bring
more people into your team.
Everybody can do things thesame way.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, I mean hire and train is the other one, but
hire and train well and get thesupport and the advice to be
able to do that well and getthem to.
You said something really cool.
They either will come in tofulfill a job, so it's a time
and a money thing, but if youcan also get them to buy into
your vision and see something inthat for themselves, then I
think you've got gold.
I think so too.
Yeah, oh, that's so cool.
(26:05):
I'm going to take that.
So that's to share your visionwith your team.
That's number five.
Build the trust andaccountability of yourself and
also whoever you're working withand for.
We talked about that in thewhole context of you can be
vulnerable and you can show allaspects of that, of who you are
in business and to a certainextent, has to reflect the good,
the bad and the ugly.
Number seven was to grow andinnovate the whole innovate
(26:29):
thing.
And innovation can be boring.
It doesn't have to like set theworld on fire, does it.
And number eight is to buildthat tribe, but also your
advisory tribal council, love it.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
That's great.
I think that's wonderful.
That's a really meaty, a lot ofeight points, lots that we can
grab from that.
So I wonder what our listenersare thinking.
What's one thing that stood outfor you.
Please let us know.
We would love to know.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So, as we're finishing up, sheila, what's the
one thing that you've learnedthrough your business journey,
just one thing that you thinkyou'd like to share with our
listeners?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
my business is stronger for the relationships
that I have in business and inlife.
So for me it's all about who Iknow, who I serve and how I can
help great.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Oh, I love that, because we're all human, aren't
we?
Absolutely yeah, so I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I love that Because we're all human, aren't we?
Absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, I love collectingpeople.
I do.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
I love it.
I just love collecting people.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
And I'm an introvert so I have to force myself.
Are you really I?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
would not have thought that.
No, I am Definitely.
You're definitely a peopleperson, because you're someone
who lights up a room and youlike to talk.
I'm nosy, that's why.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, not curious.
I say curious, curious.
Go with that Gossip, curious isa nice way to say it.
Yeah, but if you can come from,curiosity.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I reckon you'll always be able to get on the
right side of a relationship orstart a relationship, yeah.
Or even have a conversation, oreven have a conversation, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Well, this has been such a lovely, wonderful chat to
have you in the studio.
It's been a pleasure today.
So thank you for joining us.
No worries, thank you, thanks,ladies, thanks.
Thanks for listening to theWork Wonders podcast brought to
you by Asta HR.
(28:17):
Hit the subscribe button now tonever miss an episode, and if
you'd like to continue theconversation with us, you can
find us over at astorhrcomau.
See you in the next episode.
Welcome to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you
by Asta HR, where we simplifythe human side of business.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm Angela and I'm Susan, let's dive into today's
episode and find out what you'vebeen wondering about.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Today it's interview time and we were pleased to
welcome to the studio todaySheila Kabakungen.
She's a financial planner andher business is the Wealth Forum
.
She's also a business mentorand she's co-founded Mentor to
Mentor Connect and Learn.
We had a great conversation intoday's interview.
We talked about planning aheadfor your business, including
even the exit strategy thatmight suit you when the time
(00:43):
comes, and Sheila took usthrough the eight steps to get
your business to be runningsmoothly without you in it.
So let's get started.
This is the Work Wonderspodcast.
Hi, susan.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Hello Angela.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We're back in the studio for another guest
interview today, and today wehave Sheila.
Hello, hi there, sheila.
Thanks for joining us.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Great to have you along.
Thank you so, sheila.
We usually start off theseinterviews by asking people how
did they get to where they aretoday?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
What's your story?
What's my story?
I run a couple of businessesand I kind of found myself 18
years in business now.
Financial planning is prettymuch what the profession looks
like, and I did start out as afinancial planner working for
some large organisations, but Ialways knew in the back of my
head that I would end up out onmy own, and this year would mark
(01:38):
the 14th year.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
I'll actually be a self-employed, self-licensed
financial planner.
I work out at Sydney's Westlooking after, basically,
clients who are small businessowners.
That's the passion and thatreally has a lot to do with how
I was brought up the good, thebad and the ugly of that
particular upbringing, where Ireally really wanted to
understand how money worked inthe context of a small family
(02:02):
business.
So we did everything.
We had high, highs and low,lows and all sorts of other
stuff in the context of a smallfamily business.
So we did everything.
We had high, highs and low,lows and all sorts of other
stuff in the middle.
And I guess what I'm seeing nowas a business owner is that
story really hasn't changed muchand it probably hasn't changed
for centuries.
It's just the circumstances andthe times that we find
ourselves in and that oneparticular business and that
profession has spawned into acouple of other things that I've
done largely through the COVIDyears.
(02:23):
So I definitely started doing alot more business advisory and
mentoring and also partneringwith one of my absolute mentors
who I would basically would goand watch open an envelope we
started a mentoring businesstogether, mentor to Mentor,
connect and Learns.
Just in the last, just coming upto our first year.
It complements what I'm doingwith financial planning,
complements with what I'm doingin the business advisory and
(02:46):
mentoring space with New SouthWales Business Connect.
So, even though on the surfacewhen I talked about what I do
and how I do things, it lookslike a big three ring circus,
but, trust me, there's me in themiddle of all that, basically
living into what it is that I'mpassionate about and what I want
to do and what I want to leavebehind when I'm no longer on
this earth.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
It sounds like sorry.
What you're doing is all reallyconnected to your purpose.
Yeah, and that gives you theenergy for it all.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Well, absolutely, because I think it's got to come
from somewhere deeper than justthe money, right?
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
And I think we came about with this discussion
around.
Well, how do you actually get abusiness that doesn't
necessarily have to work withyou in it?
That's it, and that's theprecursor to making sure that
you can leave something behindat the end of the day, whether
that's you sell a business oryou just be able to move and go
and do something else that feedsyour passion and your soul.
That's great.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
I was going to ask you, Sheila, is there one thing
that seems to be a recurringmessage that you're giving to
your clients around thefinancial stability for their
businesses?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
I think the key to all stability is making sure
that your business can actuallywork, whether you're in it or
not, because we're the founders,we have all the hustle, we have
all the passion, we have allthe skill.
A lot of the time we think wecan control it all and that we
can't do things like delegate orwe don't want to lose the
control.
And that's the to and that'sthe reason why we got into
(04:05):
business right To be able to runour own shows, control our own
time, control every aspect in aworld that's really
uncontrollable.
And I think what COVID did wasbasically disrupt everything
that we ever thought we knewabout ourselves and our business
.
And what I'm finding is arecurring theme is people are
doing that, searching now to say, well, all right, this is where
I actually am, where is it thatI actually want to be, and how
(04:26):
do I get there?
And is what I'm doing right noweven going to get me there?
And it's thrown open a wholelot of other stuff.
And one of the themes I'm seeingfrom the financial aspects of
running a business is first off,you've got to make sure that
the machine that exists rightnow to run the business, the
actual business itself is goingthat there's enough cash flow
coming through and cash flowgoing out, but beyond that, it's
(04:46):
what's this thing going to befor?
Because ultimately, I've got ahundred years.
Every one of us has probablyonly got a hundred years, and if
I'm halfway through that, thenI need to make some decisions
about what's going to happenwith me.
What do I want in the nearfuture and how am I going to get
what I've got to that pointwhere I can actually realise it
Interesting, yeah.
So I know these are bigquestions, but when it comes
(05:08):
down to the business owner, it'show do you actually get a
business that can?
Speaker 2 (05:15):
function whether you are there running it or not.
Do you enjoy listening to ourinterview episodes?
As you can tell, angela and Ireally enjoy making them, so
we're always on the lookout forinteresting people we can
interview.
If you or someone you knowwould make a great guest for us,
please get in touch.
You can contact us through ourwebsite at astrohrcomau, or via
(05:38):
LinkedIn.
We're always happy to have achat about what we might be able
to discuss.
That can both inform ourlisteners and help you to reach
a wider audience.
Now let's get back to theepisode.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
And that's an interesting thought, because I
hear so often from smallbusiness owners that they're the
one doing the doing, wearingall the hats.
You know, when you're asolopreneur, it's absolutely the
case, and as you start to grow,it can be really hard to let go
of those hats, can't you?
But often it's not achievablefor someone to have expertise in
all those areas.
So, yeah, it's interesting tohear you say, but it's about
(06:14):
learning to let go of thatcontrol or finding ways for the
business to work without you,because if you're the one doing
everything, it does rely solelyon you.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, or you have all of that, all of the knowledge
is sitting in your head, all thedreams, the visions, the plans
and everything else are all inyour head and until you actually
start to speak and share it.
So that's the first thing Imean.
If I look at the eight thingsthat business owners can
actually do to get a businessthat doesn't rely on them,
that's number one Actually planand set goals.
But yes, plan and set goals,but actually put them down on
(06:43):
something so that if you keep bybus, someone else knows what's
going on and, like you know, youcan have all those cliches and
all those memes that say, if youdon't plan, you fail, and all
that sort of stuff.
You don't have to plan tosucceed.
You can get by on sheer luckand hard work.
But at some point in timeyou're going to want a different
result, even if the results arefailure.
(07:07):
Then you just pick up and goagain, but most often it's going
to be a success or a differentversion of a success.
That's the first one plan.
The other one is and I'm guiltyof this too identifying and
actually writing down systemsand procedures, or creating
systems and procedures.
And I know you two are massiveon that, because those human
relationships that we have tohave when we are employing
(07:28):
someone or even contractingsomeone or using a supplier,
they're all based on two peoplein a relationship actually
understanding what's expected,being able to hold each other to
account, right the rules, tofight and play fair.
You guys are the referees for alot of that within employment.
But the communication has to beembedded in some sort of living
document or a living knowledgeof what's expected and what
(07:50):
happens when you don't meetthose expectations and all that
sort of stuff.
Documenting is the other one.
So if it's like planning andthen getting the systems and
processes but then actuallyputting them down in writing is
the third one, and then gettingthe people to actually believe
your vision and work for you.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
We had this discussion earlier, didn't we,
about how?
Speaker 3 (08:08):
do we actually get people to buy into your business
beyond the paycheck?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
So yeah, have you ever heard it said Susan, you
know why did you apply for thisjob?
And you've heard someone say oh, because I needed one.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Or it's close to home , or I wanted part-time, or I
wanted remote work.
Yes, making it all about whatthey want.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Fairly uninspiring, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (08:29):
But then maybe they haven't met the employer who's
inspired them.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Yeah, oh, yeah, I love that, or even before that,
like the employee who actuallyhas an expectation of what that
person needs to do for the timeand the money that they're being
paid for.
Such an interesting thing tothink about, isn't it Because a
lot of us will have such aninnate thing of oh, recruitment
is, I need someone with A, B andC qualifications or X amount of
experience and, oh well, ifthey turn up and do the job,
(08:55):
they're doing the job, aren'tthey?
Well, no, maybe not.
So it's a really interestingthing to flip that on its head
and question are they reallyinterested in the purpose of
what we're doing, and are theyhere for the right reasons, and
are they giving me the outputsthat I'm essentially buying by?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
paying them.
Oh wow, that's cool.
That's the first time I'veheard it put that way, Because I
made a massive mistake inrecruitment very early on, when
I was starting out in financialplanning and did my first hire
where I genuinely believed thehire, I had had the right skill
set and completely bought intowhat I was trying to create from
my vision point of view.
But you know where I fell down?
I didn't know what I wantedthem to do and I had no way of
(09:35):
being able to relinquish thetrust and control issues I had
to be able to give them enoughto do so they left because they
were bored, because I wouldn'teven trust them with scanning
and photocopying at one point.
You know what I mean.
So that's been a constant thingfor me is to have, like, I'm
not the best scanner andphotocopier, and even if I am,
should I be doing that?
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Exactly.
Yeah, and it's funny like Ichuckled at that, but really
you're not alone there.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
No, I think that's a common thing, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, we've all done it.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Oh gosh and I mean that's the thing too that this
particular employee, who I'mstill friends with, goes.
I would have done anything youwanted me to do, because I
totally believed in what youwere doing, but you just
honestly didn't have anythingfor me to do.
So I got your vision.
Now we have to help you getthose systems, processes,
procedures in place so someonecan actually act out or
implement that for you.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
So then you can go off and do you know your rock
star Taylor Swift, beyonce thing, because that's what you you
know that's Love it.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
You can bring that in , yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
But someone needs to manage your calendar and someone
needs to Exactly so that's.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, I'm taking all of that on and setting those
expectations, yeah, and holdingpeople accountable as.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
We completely know what we're doing.
We're completely, you know,we're great at what we do and
there's no way that we would beable to be able to demonstrate
that we are having a bad day orthere's no, all that sort of
stuff Like.
I find that a real challengetoo, that people expect you,
particularly in social land,social media or.
LinkedIn in particular, that you, you know you have to show your
best side and I guess that'sfrom a business owner's point of
(11:11):
view that has to be a reasonwhy businesses feel like they
can't grow, because it's justall in the founder to be all of
the things and to represent thebusiness and the brand so much.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Well, I'm a big believer that small, medium, big
, we all essentially do the samething in terms of framework of
business.
If you sort of wanted to pullit apart and go well, everyone
does marketing, everyone doesfinance, everyone does a bit of
HR, depending how big yourbusiness is.
You know it's just to whatscale.
Yeah, but really, and how canwe be expected to do it all
(11:42):
until you start to, like you say, think about moving that on and
passing it on to differentpeople or outsourcing it,
whatever it may be?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Yeah, I mean it's the whole building of the trust and
accountability in what you know, you know right, and what you
don't know, you don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
That's right, because you can't be the best at
everything.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
And then it's trusting when you put yourself
out there and say, okay, I needto work with a digital marketing
specialist or a human resourcesspecialist or a whole bunch of
specialists, is that they're notgoing to?
This is what I hear from mybusiness owners a lot.
How do I make sure that Iactually don't blow my money on
something?
Because, there's not a lot of it.
So they're coming from ascarcity mentality already
because they've done a couple oftough years or made some bad
(12:22):
calls in the past, and thatreally does play around with the
ability to then go.
Well, I could outsource it or Icould just do it myself and
just fumble along, and if it'smy stuff up, it's my stuff up,
but I haven't thrown money at itas well.
So I haven't lost money as well, and it limits, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I mean, I'm in that boat right now too.
I'm about to potentially hire avirtual assistant, but it's
taken me three years to get tothe point where I can actually
say here's what I need them todo in order for me to do, you
know, that dream of a businessthat's largely automated on the
financial planning side so I cango off and do other things.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
I think you have to ask yourself what's it costing
you to be doing that work thatyou know you can now get someone
else to do, and then it'sknowing what value you bring to
your business.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, I think everybody has a reason why they
started business.
Maybe it's a passion, aprofession, a skill, a product
that they've got an idea of thatthey can do better than anybody
else, or whatever it is.
If you know what it is that youbring to your business, is it
(13:26):
that you are a really greatmasseur and you need to do that
part of the business but youneed someone to do the admin
side because that's not yourstrength?
Or whatever it is.
I think leaning into what's thebest part that you can bring to
the business and letting go ofthe stuff that you perhaps are
not so great at.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, what I've done lately is every time I go and do
something that I know in my gutand in my head I'm going.
Oh, I can't do this.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
I actually just write it down that goes into the job
description for the new person.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
That's your big tip then, if you're wanting to get
out of the business to a certainextent, you've got to start
documenting the stuff that yougenuinely don't like to do and
the stuff that you genuinelyshouldn't be doing, because you
know that it's just putting offsomething else.
Exactly, invoicing is a big onethat I hear from my clients.
Like I'll always have a look attheir financials and what's
going on in their money andthey'll say to me, oh, there's
not enough of it.
(14:14):
And then I'll look at unpackwhat they've been doing.
Yes, I'll go all right, sowhere's you?
Did all these jobs and like ittook you three weeks to get in
front of me because you were sobusy.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
So where's the invoices?
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Oh that, well, that might be why.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's areally common one.
I was literally at dinner withsome our mentoring group
actually and three people inthat same room said that they
had not invoiced for at leasttwo weeks and I was like geez
hand up.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I haven't done that because you did the doing and
then you go oh, that's right,yeah, give me a minute, and how
long does it take to send aninvoice?
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Yeah, sometimes I think we over-engineer it.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
You spend more time thinking about doing it than
just doing it.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
And like you think about it, right, if you actually
buy something from any onlinestore, you've paid for that
thing before it's even come out,exactly Right, and you just
play catch up.
Or you just have to address thecustomer service issues if it
doesn't land on your step, butyou've paid for it because
you've already committed to thetransaction of that particular
good or service.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So why aren't we doing that in business?
I think there's probably anumber of reasons.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Because I think a lot of small business, especially
the ones in our circle, ladies,who would have that same issue,
and I wonder if the questionshould be well, how are we
getting the money in beyonddoing the best job possible at
the time that we're doing thejob, or providing the service,
providing the product?
What's the strategy there?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
What's the?
Speaker 3 (15:38):
strategy to get the money in.
Every time I think about that.
That 90s quote.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Linda Evangelista, those supermodels that said that
I don't get out of bed for$10,000 a year, I go.
Well, there's a woman who knows.
There's a woman who knows.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
There's a woman who oh a day.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
It's not even a year.
Oh my gosh $10,000 a day, rightshe goes.
She knew her worth.
We're asking for a couple ofhundred dollars for an invoice
fulfilled or a product, or up tothousands of dollars.
Is it coming down to worth orbeing able to demonstrate worth?
Speaker 2 (16:07):
Not necessarily to the customer, but to ourselves.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Oh my gosh ladies.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I Sorry to the customer, no to ourselves.
Oh my gosh, ladies, I'm a goosebumpy.
How did you get into yourbusiness?
Sometimes it's because you'regreat at a particular thing or
you've got a passion forsomething and you know that you
can do it a little better thanwhat other people are already
doing.
Now that you're in business,you've discovered there's a lot
more to it than just having theright skills, especially when
(16:34):
you've hired a team.
You might have learnt thefinancial skills that you need
because you had to, basically,but where do you go to develop
the HR and the leadership skillsthat you need?
If you're feeling overwhelmedin managing people and all the
other things that come withrunning a business, we can help
you.
We'll guide you through theskills you need to feel more
confident in leadership.
(16:55):
Go and check out the coachingpage on our website or schedule
a call with us at astorhrcomau.
Now it's back to the episode.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
If you think about it in the context of how do I
actually get myself out of thebusiness and have it running
without me, there's a little bitof it.
I can't, I don't want to let go, because so much of me is
actually my self-worth is thebusiness and I am a whatever you
are and that is who I am.
It's part of my identity.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Exactly.
That's why I always believethat you should have.
Once you start a business, youneed to have your exit strategy.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Don't you reckon?
Every single business owner hasheard that in one form or
another and like?
The one question we all askourselves is I'm never going to
leave.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Well, that's ages away.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
That's years, decades away, that's ages away.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, or I've no idea , but isn't that really what you
should be working towards thewhole time?
Will you want to be finishingat the best possible position
you want to be in?
You know whether it be fiveyears, 10 years, 20 years?
Speaker 1 (18:01):
And does it come down to a financial planning aspect
as well, sheila?
I mean, if you're a businessowner, do you have
superannuation, or is yourbusiness going to be your
retirement plan, and what isthat plan?
I wonder how many businessowners have asked their question
themselves of that.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
I don't think they ask it.
One of the common threads I seewith most people's business
journey and I'm nosy by nature-I always love to come from
curiosity or gossip.
I will sit there and listen topeople's business stories and
how they started and all thatsort of stuff and get completely
inspired and enthralled by itall.
But it comes to that certainpoint when you start to actually
(18:37):
push into well, what's next?
What's next?
What's next?
Love the past stuff because ittells me how you got here and
what makes you tick.
But you now want a differentresult or you want validation of
more of the same right.
There's only two reasons whyyou tell your story you want to
be seen, you want to be heard,you want to be accepted, right?
Or you want to be challengedand pushed into a different
direction.
(18:57):
So you want someone to comealong and help you change your
story.
But what I'm finding is thatmost people don't have an end in
mind, and it was the one thingto say, yes, I want to sell this
business, or I don't want tosell this business, but most
genuinely don't know how thewhole thing's going to end,
right?
We all love taking ourselvesdown and taking everyone else
down, but it's theacknowledgement of wow, you've
done not too badly and youhaven't even had a plan or a
(19:18):
strategy, or you just got hereby luck or good fortune or
something innate in who you arethat has had people following
you and just believing in whatyou're doing and just giving you
money for what you do.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
It's such an interesting thought really
because, as the business owner,we started with all the great
intentions and off it goes andif you're lucky, your business
might snowball into somethingbigger but really asking
yourself the question of what'sthe end goal for you personally.
The business might continue,you might just sell it or
whatever it may be.
But yeah, that's a reallyinteresting thought and it's
(19:52):
similar in the way of successionplanning, when you're thinking
about a team as well andresourcing the business to keep
continuing.
It's sort of doing that withyourself as the resource.
How is the business going tocontinue without you all?
Speaker 3 (20:05):
Because the business has to continue, doesn't it?
And it has to grow in some form.
Not every business has to scaleand grow, and you know, take on
, become multi-employee empiresand all that sort of stuff.
But there has to be some sort ofgrowth, because the system that
we work in requires growth.
It requires us to at least keepgoing, keep moving forward, but
it also doesn't require us toend, so there is no actual end
(20:27):
point.
To be honest with you in termsof the last five years, with my
clients who've walked away frombusiness either positively or
negatively, has not been aconscious decision to sell or a
conscious decision to end.
It's been taken away from them.
The choice is gone becauseeither circumstances, trade the
COVID stuff has killed off a lotof businesses Health is another
(20:49):
major one, and believe it ornot.
Breakdowns in majorrelationships take a business
out.
So that's what I'm finding thatthere was no planning involved
in a takedown.
A lot of the time I'm dealingwith one client out of maybe the
last 12 where a business hashad to shut, only one is a
viable sale on the market readyto go A choice to sell the
(21:09):
business rather than to shut itdown and walk away.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
Wow Well it's you know, some of it has been okay,
we were just lucky enough, or wedon't have to work anymore, or
something's taken them out, andit's not necessarily a failure
on their part, but one sale.
So if that's the myth that weall follow, that our business is
a superannuation, even that onesale isn't going to be enough
for them to live on.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
They've had to consciously build wells outside
to be able to do it, and none ofus can predict what the
market's going to do.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Well, I think one of the things that we can probably
look at in terms of businessowners and making this whole
journey of succession and growtha little bit easier is to
actually see that, becausebusinesses have to keep going,
it's how do we keep going?
And again, using COVID, thegreat disruptor, we all had to
look at the way that we wererunning our businesses and at
least adapt.
(21:58):
Our use of technology justamplified.
We need those positive forcesof innovation coming through.
The last three years havetaught me that I have to look at
new ways of doing the samething.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
We have to remember that innovation is that as well
as doing something completelydifferent.
So you know, sometimes I thinkwe believe that you know,
innovation is that hugebreakthrough, but not
necessarily it can beincremental, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
But the thing is, every business owner needs a
tribe around them and that's atribe of people who they can
actually go to to say I'm havinga bad day or I'm having an
awesome success story, andyou're either my suppliers,
you're my customers.
That's tribe.
But then there's the advisoryboard, your inner circle, that
tribal council, and my tribalcouncil has basically grown as
(22:50):
I've grown the business and youguys would know who would make
up a great tribal council.
It's your money team, it's yourpeople team, it's your tools
and resources team, right andacross all of that, making sure
that they actually know whatyou're about and how you're
supporting them.
They're supporting you that'sthe only way to get the business
growing beyond you.
(23:10):
Even if it's just you in thebusiness, I know I can go to you
guys when I take on this v andmake sure that, even if they're
an overseas resource, how do Iactually start to make sure that
I'm not doing the wrong thing?
by ah, here, yeah, yeah, I agree, and even all of the general
stuff that we talk about, that Iuse you guys as sounding board
for my clients, lovely as theygo on their business journeys
and they're, you know, dealingwith things like flexibility, I
(23:33):
know that's one of the things.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
And the work from home versus you know the work
from the office thing and theliabilities on the employer side
.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
I know you, Angela, you and I talk about that quite
a bit.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yes, yeah, yeah, it's quite a topical one at the
moment, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Yeah, but it's such unknown territory and you can't
rely on your own self for that.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
No.
And one of the big things Susanand I say all the time and we
tell our clients is you can't doit on your own.
You shouldn't have to.
You deserve that expert supportwhen you need it, whether it's
a financial support, likeyourself or, you know, legal
support or someone like Susanand I.
You deserve that.
You can't do it all yourself.
(24:09):
You know you do need someone tolean on, if it is even just
that sounding board.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
I love how you said that, because I just lit up when
you said you deserve thesupport and you.
Susan said something aboutworthiness and the fact that if
we are running these businessesand they are a reflection of who
we are and our ego and ourpride, and even our insecurities
and our imposter syndromebusiness is a pure reflection of
who you are.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
But we've got to find a way to cut through it so that
it grows beyond ourselves.
So I'll go through all of thoseeight points, because I know
I've kind of gone on differenttangents, but there is rhyme to
reason, I'm sure.
The first one is to plan and setgoals.
So I think that goes withoutsaying.
We all know to do that, but Iguess, find a structure that's
(24:52):
going to make you do it.
So, while we know it in theory,it's the practice, the practice
, the practice.
So, whether it's something likethat business model canvas or
something that's going to haveyou take your business, stick it
up on a whiteboard and thenstart to unpack it and start to
plan and set those goals.
The second one is to identifyand simplify any processes and
procedures that have to happen,regardless of whether you do
(25:14):
them or not.
Like so, get it out of yourhead what you do in your
business.
And the third one is todocument everything, because I
have that whole.
If you get hit by a bus, who'sgoing to know what to do?
Yeah, in every aspect of yourlife, particularly the financial
planning.
You and your person all the waythrough to.
Well, how do you turn thecoffee machine on?
Yeah, in the office.
(25:35):
Or how do you unlock yourvirtual office.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
And it makes that easier as you start to bring
more people into your team.
Everybody can do things thesame way.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, I mean hire and train is the other one, but
hire and train well and get thesupport and the advice to be
able to do that well and getthem to.
You said something really cool.
They either will come in tofulfill a job, so it's a time
and a money thing, but if youcan also get them to buy into
your vision and see something inthat for themselves, then I
think you've got gold.
I think so too.
Yeah, oh, that's so cool.
(26:05):
I'm going to take that.
So that's to share your visionwith your team.
That's number five.
Build the trust andaccountability of yourself and
also whoever you're working withand for.
We talked about that in thewhole context of you can be
vulnerable and you can show allaspects of that, of who you are
in business and to a certainextent, has to reflect the good,
the bad and the ugly.
Number seven was to grow andinnovate the whole innovate
(26:29):
thing.
And innovation can be boring.
It doesn't have to like set theworld on fire, does it.
And number eight is to buildthat tribe, but also your
advisory tribal council, love it.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
That's great.
I think that's wonderful.
That's a really meaty, a lot ofeight points, lots that we can
grab from that.
So I wonder what our listenersare thinking.
What's one thing that stood outfor you.
Please let us know.
We would love to know.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So, as we're finishing up, sheila, what's the
one thing that you've learnedthrough your business journey,
just one thing that you thinkyou'd like to share with our
listeners?
Speaker 3 (27:06):
my business is stronger for the relationships
that I have in business and inlife.
So for me it's all about who Iknow, who I serve and how I can
help great.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Oh, I love that, because we're all human, aren't
we?
Absolutely yeah, so I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
I love that Because we're all human, aren't we?
Absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, I love collectingpeople.
I do.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
I love it.
I just love collecting people.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
And I'm an introvert so I have to force myself.
Are you really I?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
would not have thought that.
No, I am Definitely.
You're definitely a peopleperson, because you're someone
who lights up a room and youlike to talk.
I'm nosy, that's why.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, not curious.
I say curious, curious.
Go with that Gossip, curious isa nice way to say it.
Yeah, but if you can come from,curiosity.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I reckon you'll always be able to get on the
right side of a relationship orstart a relationship, yeah.
Or even have a conversation, oreven have a conversation, yeah,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Well, this has been such a lovely, wonderful chat to
have you in the studio.
It's been a pleasure today.
So thank you for joining us.
No worries, thank you, thanks,ladies, thanks.
Thanks for listening to theWork Wonders podcast brought to
you by Asta HR.
(28:17):
Hit the subscribe button now tonever miss an episode, and if
you'd like to continue theconversation with us, you can
find us over at astorhrcomau.
See you in the next episode.
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