May 5, 2024 • 25 mins
In this episode we spoke with Lisa LaMaitre.
She has developed, owned, and operated four businesses in four different industries, in the Canberra region, over the last 31 years.
Listen in as Lisa shares with us her journey and what she's learnt over that time in people management.
Lisa is a Business Connect Business Advisor with Enterprise Plus.
To access FREE support in your business through the Business Connect program, you can book a time with Lisa here
You can find the show notes for this episode here
Would you like to submit a question to the show? Let us know on our website or via LinkedIn.
Brought to you by Aster HR, the Work Wonders Podcast is hosted by Angela Gauci & Susan Rochester and is recorded at Launch Pad at Western Sydney University.
All information or advice included in this podcast is general, has been developed as a starting point for your business, and should be tailored to your specific requirements. It should not be considered legal advice. We have made every attempt to ensure the accuracy and currency of this information at the time of recording. However, references to things like employment laws are subject to change. For specific advice relating to your business, please get in touch with us.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you
by Asta HR, where we simplifythe human side of business.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm Angela and I'm Susan, let's dive into today's
episode and find out what you'vebeen wondering about.
It's interview time again, andtoday we're talking to Lisa
LaMaitre.
Lisa's owned several businessesand is now working as a
business advisor.
We're sure you'll enjoy thischat.
(00:33):
Lisa talks to us about herexperiences of running four
different businesses over 31years in business, and we get to
hear what she's learnt in thattime.
So let's dive in.
This is the Work Wonderspodcast.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Hi Susan, another interview today.
Yes, always our favourite, Ithink they are.
And today we have Lisa Lemaitrewith us in the studio.
Hi Lisa.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Hey, ange and Susan, lovely to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for coming along Well,Lisa.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I know you've got we've known each other for a
little while, and I know you'vegot a really interesting
backstory and lots to tell us.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about what's brought
you to where you are today?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
So I've been in business now last month for 31
years, so it's a really longperiod of time.
With my husband we've had fourdifferent businesses in four
different industries in theCanberra region.
So we've had an IT consultingcompany, a health practice, an
events business and a retail andrental store.
(01:37):
But I first managed staff whenI was only 18, so a very long
time ago.
I worked at Woolworths.
I had a gap year between highschool and uni and I was only
there about six weeks and theydecided quite quickly that I'd
make a great service supervisor.
So I quickly became the managerfor the extended trade staff.
(02:00):
So that was Thursday night,friday night and Saturday so I
was 18, and my staff were allthe 14, 15,.
Friday night and Saturday so Iwas 18 and my staff were all the
14, 15, 16, 17 year olds.
So that's where I startedmanaging staff so a really long
time ago, and I've had lots ofexperience.
Now I do now from the businessside of things.
I now work full-time as abusiness advisor with a company
(02:22):
in Queanbeyan called EnterprisePlus and we're contracted to
deliver the New South WalesBusiness Connect program.
So if anyone's a business inNew South Wales I can
potentially help them with theirbusiness through that program,
but I also lecture, mentor andteach business as well.
So I'm probably a little bitOTD on the amount of business
stuff that I do, but I do enjoyit and I do enjoy sharing my
(02:45):
knowledge with other people andhelping them on their business
journey.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
That's fantastic.
Well, 31 years, I'm sure you'vegot a lot to share, Possibly
hopefully, hopefully it's notfull.
I'm curious, eamon you talkedabout managing staff right from
the beginning there and all thedifferent industries that those
businesses you and your husbandhave across different ones so
diverse.
Is that those businesses youand your husband have across
different ones so diverse?
Is there something that perhapsis you know a theme, something
that's the same with managingpeople across all those
(03:10):
differences?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I think the main thing is that you have to care
for people.
I don't think treating themlike they're family members is
really the right terminology,but you know treating them in
such a way that they know thatthey're valued and they know
that you care about them andthat you're willing to put them
before whatever's happening inthe business.
I can remember sharing one ofmy massage therapists my health
(03:35):
practice was a massage clinicand I had contractors working
for me back in the day and quitea few of the staff would work
at a few different clinicsaround town because they wanted
to work in different areas orlocations or whatever.
And I remember sharing one ofmy team who was amazing with
another practice in Canberra andthen I happened to meet that
(03:56):
practice owner at like atraining day and she just came
up to me and she started tocomplain about us and said how
difficult she was to manage andI was just standing there like
dumbfounded.
Were you talking about the sameperson?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, at the timethe staff member had been going
through some personal issues,but I'd been like it's okay,
(04:17):
what do you need?
How can I support?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
you.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Where the other business owner was like oh,
you're just an inconvenience andyou're making my life difficult
.
You can probably imagine thatthat staff member stopped
working for her and came to workfor me for all the hours that
she wanted to work for.
I think that that's reallyimportant.
I think we often forget or weget into our heads that we're
(04:40):
opposing forces when we'reemployers and employees, and it
doesn't help anybody.
So that's probably the thingthat I take from all the
different people I've managed inall the different industries.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I think we'd definitely agree with that
wouldn't we?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, we're both nodding and smiling.
Yeah, it's lovely to hear anemployer say that.
I think that's a lovely way tolook at it, and we're all human,
exactly.
Well, look on the flip side ofthat, lisa.
Is there one thing that's maybebeen a bit hard for you to
learn, or to get your headaround, or whatever, in regard
to your journey of becoming aleader of a team?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Well, back in the day , particularly when I was
starting to build my massagepractice, it's nearly 20 years
ago.
Since I did that, I'd been inthe industry for about seven
years and then I moved intocommercial premises 20 years ago
this year and then I was inthat space until 2020, until
COVID, when I pivoted andobviously COVID made lots of
people pivot and I'm just one ofthose people.
(05:38):
But it was sort of in that,probably towards the end of the
first 12 months, where I startedto really be mindful and build
the team and bring a reallygreat team together.
But back then there was reallynobody to look at that.
You know.
There weren't podcasts.
There was some books, you knowthere was really and also, too,
it was all very male dominated.
So I found that quite difficultto find someone to kind of
(06:03):
mentor me or learn from or useas a role model or something.
So I found that quite difficult.
And I think the biggest problemwe have in Australia and most
people would probably agree isthe complexity of HR laws and
how difficult it is and evenwhen you're trying to do the
right thing and you type it intoGoogle or onto one of the many
(06:23):
platforms where you can go andthat search engine just doesn't
return the answer or return somany Exactly, and that obviously
takes a lot of time away frombusiness people.
You know, having to be on thephone or chase down an answer or
hire other people when yourcash flow might not be great.
Yeah, you know, I think there'sfew business owners out there
(06:46):
that intentionally do the wrongthing.
I think everyone wants to dothe right thing, but it's so
hard to know what the rightthing is to do.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, we'd agree with that.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Definitely, we were recording an episode.
Just, you know around all thedifferent changes in legislation
and you know we would like tothink for you all that it
stopped last year and that wasenough.
But no, here's more Exactly.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, and I think the policymakers forget that.
They're used to reading andwriting policy, so it's normal
language for them and normalterminology and they know where
they've hidden it.
You know, being a businessperson, if my marketing messages
are clear, customers don't knowwhat I sell and so they don't
know what they can buy from meor how I can help them.
It's kind of the same.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, even today, when we're looking at the
closing loopholes legislation, Inoticed that Fair Work's got a
glossary on their page now.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
They do.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So it's got these are the keywords that are used, and
so it's got things like NES,you know, national Employment
Standards, and other terms thatnot everybody would understand.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, because they use a lot of terminology or
abbreviations and yeah, yeah,acronym Lisa.
I wonder around employee andemployees in your team and
keeping them engaged and, youknow, giving you what you're
looking for in terms of outcomesand doing a really good job.
What tips do you have in termsof keeping people doing the
(08:11):
doing and keeping the teamreally vibrant and alive and
going in the same direction?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I think a lot of it actually comes back to when
they're first onboarded mybackground in retail when I did
work in retail.
It's all about the processesand procedures and the manuals
and I think that that issomething that a lot of small
businesses do overlook,particularly if there's someone
that they've got all of theknowledge in their head and they
(08:37):
know everything and they'remainly in the business with
everyone else the business witheveryone else.
But if you get to the pointwhere you want to grow the
business and you want to stepout and be doing other things,
or you want to bring more teamon or even step back from the
business because you know a lotof business people have other.
You know they have familyobligations or they want to have
children, or they want to goback and study or whatever
they're trying to do, or they'resetting up a second location,
(09:01):
having those systems in placefrom when you first hire staff,
I think makes a really bigdifference and it's that
induction and onboarding andsetting those things up so
people know what you expect ofthem, they know how to do it,
they know how to problem solve,they know what's acceptable if
you're not there, that they cankind of do as a solution if
(09:22):
something comes up that they'renot used to, and to give them a
level of independence.
And then I think it's about justtelling them, valuing them,
getting them you know, gettinggreat clients or customers in.
You know, I think it's all I'vealways been about.
You take care of your team,they turn up at work, they want
to do a good job, your clientsor customers have a great
(09:43):
experience and they come backagain, and it's just this loop.
It's not necessarily difficult,it just loops around.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
We're always talking about having your team aligned
with what your purpose is inyour business and driving
towards your vision and havingsome investment in what you're
trying to achieve as a business.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And, of course, that all requires being clear about
that yourself and being able tocommunicate that to the team,
doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
It's hard at the moment too, when often we're
managing remote teams.
Oh yes, so often now teams areremote, or particularly in the
businesses I've had when we hadthe retail business, we had
casual staff.
I'm not going to be in thebusiness all the hours the
business is open.
Or when I had my massage clinic, I had people that would work
(10:33):
weekends and I might notnecessarily be in there or
working on days that I'm off.
So being able to communicate toall of your team all of the
time the things that havechanged team all of the time,
the things that have changed,you know, probably relying more
on technology now.
So whether you've got like aFacebook group or WhatsApp group
, telegram, email text, whateverit is, so everyone's on the
(10:53):
same page all the time.
That's really important too inbusiness.
Yeah, and I think that thatleads to a lot of frustration in
the team.
If someone you know you're notgetting that communication
across to everybody.
I think that can lead to a lotof issues too.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, it sure can, but it's all time consuming too,
isn't it, if you're thebusiness owner and you just want
to get the stuff done.
So how do you address that whenyou're advising business owners
and they're like, well, yeah, Icould be doing all that, but
I've got all this other stuffthat needs to happen.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Well, to be honest, a lot of the business owners that
I have been working with aregenerally solopreneurs, but not
a lot of them have staff or ifthey do have staff, they have
really small teams.
You know, often I think whenthe team is bigger, there's
probably another person in themanagement role that's going to
help them with that teammanagement, but probably another
(11:48):
person in the management rolethat's going to help them with
that team management.
But if you're trying to do itall yourself, it's really,
really hard and I think managingstaff takes a lot more time
than people often allocate andgive to it.
I know that was something that Ididn't do particularly well
when I have had staff over theyears.
I can remember back in the daywhen I used to do everyone's
super payments they used to takeme all day and and only had
like nine or ten people like itwas insane, like it was a really
time consuming making sureeverything's right and making
(12:10):
sure you haven't forgottenanyone and it's getting paid
into the correct account and youhaven't buggered it up like
it's time consuming.
And I think that's probably oneof the things I'd say set time
aside to do your admin or yourstaff management or whatever you
need to do, and so often yousay to people oh, I'll have them
, you know we'll follow up witha meeting or have a team meeting
(12:30):
or have a one-on-one, or youknow someone's meant to be on
probation and the follow throughis not there because you don't
schedule it as somethingimportant and it's easy to kind
of slip over.
So yeah, I'd say plan andschedule.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So that sort of comes back to what you were talking
about earlier, Lisa, about yourprocesses and having systems for
keeping on top of those things,doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
It does.
You know we talk about workingin the business or on the
business, and I think it'sreally easy to get sucked in and
spend all your time in thebusiness and not spend any time,
or and definitely not enoughtime on the business, and I know
that's definitely been one ofmy issues.
Well, you know, at times I'vebeen managing multiple
businesses, like at one point.
(13:15):
You know, we've had threebusinesses at different times.
We've done some nutty thingsover the years.
My husband and I.
At one point between the two ofus we had over 100 staff, so he
was contracting into government.
He had 70-odd staff there, amix of contractors and full-time
and that's in a government role.
And then we had my massageclinic and we had our retail
(13:38):
business.
So I had like 10 in onelocation and 15 on the other or
something and my husband had 70plus.
So, yeah, we had around 100employees between the two of us.
It was nothing.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Do you enjoy listening to our interview
episodes?
As you can tell, angela and Ireally enjoy making them, so
we're always on the lookout forinteresting people we can
interview.
If you or someone you knowwould make a great guest for us,
please get in touch.
You can contact us through ourwebsite at astrohrcomau or via
(14:15):
LinkedIn.
We're always happy to have achat about what we might be able
to discuss.
That can both inform ourlisteners and help you to reach
a wider audience.
Now let's get back to theepisode to reach a wider
audience.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Now let's get back to the episode.
Well, lisa, I know youmentioned in the beginning that
you're working with EnterprisePlus as part of the Business
Connect program and we'd love tohear more about that soon.
But I know you've worked with alot of small business owners
and, like you say, a few thathave smaller teams of staff.
I'm curious are you seeing youknow more recently things that
are coming up for them thatthey're finding difficult in
(14:49):
terms of people management?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Because I'm either working with solo printers or
they're people who are at thatpoint where they're ready to to
hire people for the first timeand they want to get it right.
And so they're looking at whatyou know, what they need to be
setting up and what they need tobe doing, so checking what type
of business structure do theyhave Are they a sole trader, a
(15:12):
partnership or a company andthen helping to advise them on
what insurances they might needor a mandatory, obviously, with
workers' compensation insurance,and then also looking at making
sure that you know thatsuperannuation, single-touch
payroll.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yes, all the compliance aspects, all the bits
that need to happen, the waythey need to happen.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
So I'm curious, Lisa, with all the different
businesses that you've come intocontact with and through your
lecturing and mentoring, what'sthe most unusual business idea
that someone's brought to you orhas started a business in?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Well, the most unusual one is one of my yeah,
is a client.
They have said they're in theprocess of setting a business up
to change.
I kind of don't want to reallyreveal it completely yet,
because they're at.
They're testing at the moment.
They're testing what they'redoing change.
I kind of don't want to reallyreveal it completely yet.
They're testing at the moment.
They're testing what they'redoing, but they're looking to
(16:10):
set up a business that woulddisrupt the funeral industry.
I'll leave it at that.
Oh, my goodness, yes, it'ssomething really different.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Watch this space.
Yeah, Lisa, is there somethingin the frame of thinking about
people in business and teams?
Is there something in the frameof thinking about people in
business and teams?
Is there something that you seeis the same, no matter whether
you're, you know, five or 10 bigin your team, or whether you've
got a hundred?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I think it comes back to communication and then, if
you're looking at that aspect ofit, it's probably the values of
the business and whether it's,you know, written on a piece of
paper, on the website and it'snot actually a living document
or it's a living document.
So, one of the things I didbefore COVID I think it was in
(16:54):
2018 or 2019, there's a businessup in Cooma that's called
Bird's Nest.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Oh yes, we know Bird's Nest, oh nice.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
So, for those who may not know, bird's Nest is a very
successful clothing brand up inCooma.
When I went up and visited thembefore COVID, they were the
second largest employer ofpeople in the Cooma region
behind Snowy Hydra.
So you can appreciate how mucha high-growing small business
has grown to achieve that.
(17:25):
So their store they mainly dowomen's wear and I think they do
some kids' wear as well andthey sell online and they have a
range of their own labels thatthey have made.
But at their facility you canactually go it's back on now
since COVID you can actually goup and do a tour and you get a
tour of the shop and in the shopthe shops all color-coded and
(17:49):
there's also there'll be a pinksection, a blue section, orange
section, um, you can seeeverything that's there and if
your size isn't there, you go toan ipad and you pull up the
item like and it's not in yoursize, so you need you know your
sizes on the shelf, so you dialup your size, but it will also
tell you that it comes in redand black and horrible or
whatever.
Then you go oh, I might try.
(18:11):
You know, I need something pinkor whatever in my wardrobe and
that goes through to thewarehouse, which is in the
building next door.
Someone in the warehouse arunner will go get the things
that you've just pulled up andactually put it into the change
room for you.
Oh my, so you just walk intothe change room with your bag
and nothing else.
But when you do the tour youget to see that, you get to see
(18:33):
the warehousing, you get to gothrough They've got a huge
postage section and then you getto go up and you eventually get
to have morning or afternoontea, depending on what time of
day it is, with Jane Kay who isthe founder and she's really
down to earth and she's reallyaccessible and she'll answer any
question.
She was amazing and this was allfree before COVID.
(18:53):
So this amazing event but theirvalues is actually called
Birdsong and each letter of theword Birdsong has like a meaning
behind it.
It's painted in huge letters onthe wall in the packing room
and everyone there lives andbreathes it, to the point where
I get teary when I talk about it.
(19:14):
Like if they're really busy,they've got so many postages to
send out everybody, includingJane, will come down and pack.
You've presumably had stuffsent to you.
Yes, you get a handwritten note, don't you?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
You do.
It's lovely, it's reallythoughtful, it really makes all
the difference.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
And everybody in there says how amazing it is.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Wow, that's great, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, so businesses need to live and breathe their
value.
That, I think, is, like youknow, obviously really a
foundation, like it's thatinduction, those processes, and
then I think it's the living,your values, and then also
communication.
They would be the three kind offoundations.
And then, if you're looking atstaff, you can often teach
(20:01):
technical skills.
But even my husband says thisbecause he builds teams in IT
you can't teach a personality Ifthat person's not the right fit
for the team.
It doesn't matter how amazingtheir skills are or how great
their CV or their references, ifthey're not going to fit,
they're not going to fit.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
That's it.
Yeah, we often say that to ahigher attitude, train for skill
.
Well, lisa, I know you'd havelots of expertise that you could
share with us.
We could sit here all day withyou.
But I wonder if I ask you todrill down to one thing that you
would pass on in terms ofadvice to small business owners
in their journey of being apeople manager.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I think part of it comes back to when you're
conducting the interview Trustyour intuition, like if that
person, if there's something,just doesn't feel right,
regardless of either howdesperately you need the staff
member because you'reshort-staffed, or someone's just
left or someone's gone off onsick leave, or baby's arrived
early or whatever it is.
If they don't feel right andyou can't put your finger on it,
(21:05):
don't hire.
Yeah, because I haveoverwritten that intuitive feel
several times and it's justcaused me more pain and more
grief than the other way around,and I think you can take your
time or you can obviously bringthe person in and give them a
trial shift and obviously paythem for that.
So I think that's reallyimportant Give people a go and
(21:29):
see what they're like and thenchoose.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I think what you're saying there, Lisa, is so true
I'm very passionate about thatthat, when it comes to
recruitment, doing that slowly,you know, taking your time with
that, and I think sometimes wejust fall into that trap because
we're desperate, you know, andyou think well, this person's
breathing, we'll put them on.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
You know Well, lisa.
I wonder if you'd like to tellour listeners a little bit more
about the Business Connectprogram.
I know that it can help a lotof small business or any
business owner really gettingaccess to an expert like
yourself for some support.
So would you like to tell us alittle bit more about that?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yeah, the main thing for people to know is that if
they sign up for the BusinessConnect program, they can access
a number of hours of freesupport through the program.
For all of us who are advisors,we all have to have had our own
businesses to be.
That's one of the eligibilitycriteria when we apply.
All have to have had our ownbusinesses to be.
That's one of the eligibilitycriteria when we apply for the
(22:27):
job.
So you are talking to andworking with people that
understand business and, yeah,you can work with any advisor in
the state.
So you can pick and choose.
You can pick someone in yourlocal area.
You can pick someone on aparticular problem that you
might be having or a level ofexpertise or industry that they
have.
So a lot of my clients throughthe Business Connect program.
I have a skew for people in thehealth industry because that's
(22:49):
the majority of my businessbackground.
I've been in the industry thisyear for 27 years, so, yeah, but
it's really great, like for me.
I work with a really diverserange of people, regardless of
where people are.
If they're close by, we meet inperson.
I do a little bit of travelaround my regional area so I do
get out to see people, and thenthe rest of it is online and it
(23:10):
can be at a time of day thatsuits them as well.
So lots of flexibility, lots ofgreat support, and then we will
often know about other programsand things that may be
available, or we haveconnections into different areas
where we can find theinformation if we don't know the
answer.
So there's really nothing tolose by at least having one
session and lots of people justdon't know about the program.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
But yes, we're here to help and it's free, isn't it?
It is free, yes, it is.
That's fantastic.
Why aren't we all using that?
I know earlier on in mybusiness journey.
I went to the Business Connectprovider in my local area and it
was great just to have asounding board, someone that you
can throw I'm going to imagineit's the same for you, lisa Any
(23:53):
question about business.
Like you say, they're connectedwith the local area and
different things that areavailable for business owners,
whether it be a workshop oranother program or someone that
they could connect with, thatcould work with them.
So, yeah, really invaluable, Ithink.
Yeah, we'll be sure to put thelink.
If you would like to get intouch with Lisa and find out
(24:14):
more about the Business Connectprogram, maybe even schedule a
call with Lisa to work with herand get some advice from her, or
just to know more about it insomeone in your local area,
we'll be sure to put that linkand, yeah, go and check it out.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yeah, people have to remember they need to be
residents of New South Wales ortheir business has to operate in
New South Wales, ah great.
So yeah, if people are inanother state, I'm sorry I can't
help you.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Much as you would like to.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Well, look, Lisa, it's been a pleasure talking to
you today.
Thank you so much for your timewith us, telling us about your
journey and the great insightsthat you have for our listeners.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yes, thanks, lisa.
Lovely Thank you, ladies, it'sbeen lovely to spend some time
with you.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Thanks for listening to the Work Wonders podcast
brought to you by Asta HR.
Hit the subscribe button now tonever miss an episode, and if
you'd like to continue theconversation with us, you can
find us over at astahrcomau.
See you in the next episode.
Welcome to the Work Wonders podcast brought to you
by Asta HR, where we simplifythe human side of business.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm Angela and I'm Susan, let's dive into today's
episode and find out what you'vebeen wondering about.
It's interview time again, andtoday we're talking to Lisa
LaMaitre.
Lisa's owned several businessesand is now working as a
business advisor.
We're sure you'll enjoy thischat.
(00:33):
Lisa talks to us about herexperiences of running four
different businesses over 31years in business, and we get to
hear what she's learnt in thattime.
So let's dive in.
This is the Work Wonderspodcast.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Hi Susan, another interview today.
Yes, always our favourite, Ithink they are.
And today we have Lisa Lemaitrewith us in the studio.
Hi Lisa.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Hey, ange and Susan, lovely to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Thanks for coming along Well,Lisa.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
I know you've got we've known each other for a
little while, and I know you'vegot a really interesting
backstory and lots to tell us.
So why don't you tell us alittle bit about what's brought
you to where you are today?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
So I've been in business now last month for 31
years, so it's a really longperiod of time.
With my husband we've had fourdifferent businesses in four
different industries in theCanberra region.
So we've had an IT consultingcompany, a health practice, an
events business and a retail andrental store.
(01:37):
But I first managed staff whenI was only 18, so a very long
time ago.
I worked at Woolworths.
I had a gap year between highschool and uni and I was only
there about six weeks and theydecided quite quickly that I'd
make a great service supervisor.
So I quickly became the managerfor the extended trade staff.
(02:00):
So that was Thursday night,friday night and Saturday so I
was 18, and my staff were allthe 14, 15,.
Friday night and Saturday so Iwas 18 and my staff were all the
14, 15, 16, 17 year olds.
So that's where I startedmanaging staff so a really long
time ago, and I've had lots ofexperience.
Now I do now from the businessside of things.
I now work full-time as abusiness advisor with a company
(02:22):
in Queanbeyan called EnterprisePlus and we're contracted to
deliver the New South WalesBusiness Connect program.
So if anyone's a business inNew South Wales I can
potentially help them with theirbusiness through that program,
but I also lecture, mentor andteach business as well.
So I'm probably a little bitOTD on the amount of business
stuff that I do, but I do enjoyit and I do enjoy sharing my
(02:45):
knowledge with other people andhelping them on their business
journey.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
That's fantastic.
Well, 31 years, I'm sure you'vegot a lot to share, Possibly
hopefully, hopefully it's notfull.
I'm curious, eamon you talkedabout managing staff right from
the beginning there and all thedifferent industries that those
businesses you and your husbandhave across different ones so
diverse.
Is that those businesses youand your husband have across
different ones so diverse?
Is there something that perhapsis you know a theme, something
that's the same with managingpeople across all those
(03:10):
differences?
Speaker 3 (03:11):
I think the main thing is that you have to care
for people.
I don't think treating themlike they're family members is
really the right terminology,but you know treating them in
such a way that they know thatthey're valued and they know
that you care about them andthat you're willing to put them
before whatever's happening inthe business.
I can remember sharing one ofmy massage therapists my health
(03:35):
practice was a massage clinicand I had contractors working
for me back in the day and quitea few of the staff would work
at a few different clinicsaround town because they wanted
to work in different areas orlocations or whatever.
And I remember sharing one ofmy team who was amazing with
another practice in Canberra andthen I happened to meet that
(03:56):
practice owner at like atraining day and she just came
up to me and she started tocomplain about us and said how
difficult she was to manage andI was just standing there like
dumbfounded.
Were you talking about the sameperson?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, at the timethe staff member had been going
through some personal issues,but I'd been like it's okay,
(04:17):
what do you need?
How can I support?
Speaker 2 (04:19):
you.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Where the other business owner was like oh,
you're just an inconvenience andyou're making my life difficult
.
You can probably imagine thatthat staff member stopped
working for her and came to workfor me for all the hours that
she wanted to work for.
I think that that's reallyimportant.
I think we often forget or weget into our heads that we're
(04:40):
opposing forces when we'reemployers and employees, and it
doesn't help anybody.
So that's probably the thingthat I take from all the
different people I've managed inall the different industries.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I think we'd definitely agree with that
wouldn't we?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, we're both nodding and smiling.
Yeah, it's lovely to hear anemployer say that.
I think that's a lovely way tolook at it, and we're all human,
exactly.
Well, look on the flip side ofthat, lisa.
Is there one thing that's maybebeen a bit hard for you to
learn, or to get your headaround, or whatever, in regard
to your journey of becoming aleader of a team?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Well, back in the day , particularly when I was
starting to build my massagepractice, it's nearly 20 years
ago.
Since I did that, I'd been inthe industry for about seven
years and then I moved intocommercial premises 20 years ago
this year and then I was inthat space until 2020, until
COVID, when I pivoted andobviously COVID made lots of
people pivot and I'm just one ofthose people.
(05:38):
But it was sort of in that,probably towards the end of the
first 12 months, where I startedto really be mindful and build
the team and bring a reallygreat team together.
But back then there was reallynobody to look at that.
You know.
There weren't podcasts.
There was some books, you knowthere was really and also, too,
it was all very male dominated.
So I found that quite difficultto find someone to kind of
(06:03):
mentor me or learn from or useas a role model or something.
So I found that quite difficult.
And I think the biggest problemwe have in Australia and most
people would probably agree isthe complexity of HR laws and
how difficult it is and evenwhen you're trying to do the
right thing and you type it intoGoogle or onto one of the many
(06:23):
platforms where you can go andthat search engine just doesn't
return the answer or return somany Exactly, and that obviously
takes a lot of time away frombusiness people.
You know, having to be on thephone or chase down an answer or
hire other people when yourcash flow might not be great.
Yeah, you know, I think there'sfew business owners out there
(06:46):
that intentionally do the wrongthing.
I think everyone wants to dothe right thing, but it's so
hard to know what the rightthing is to do.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Yeah, we'd agree with that.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
Definitely, we were recording an episode.
Just, you know around all thedifferent changes in legislation
and you know we would like tothink for you all that it
stopped last year and that wasenough.
But no, here's more Exactly.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, and I think the policymakers forget that.
They're used to reading andwriting policy, so it's normal
language for them and normalterminology and they know where
they've hidden it.
You know, being a businessperson, if my marketing messages
are clear, customers don't knowwhat I sell and so they don't
know what they can buy from meor how I can help them.
It's kind of the same.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Yeah, even today, when we're looking at the
closing loopholes legislation, Inoticed that Fair Work's got a
glossary on their page now.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
They do.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
So it's got these are the keywords that are used, and
so it's got things like NES,you know, national Employment
Standards, and other terms thatnot everybody would understand.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Yeah, because they use a lot of terminology or
abbreviations and yeah, yeah,acronym Lisa.
I wonder around employee andemployees in your team and
keeping them engaged and, youknow, giving you what you're
looking for in terms of outcomesand doing a really good job.
What tips do you have in termsof keeping people doing the
(08:11):
doing and keeping the teamreally vibrant and alive and
going in the same direction?
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I think a lot of it actually comes back to when
they're first onboarded mybackground in retail when I did
work in retail.
It's all about the processesand procedures and the manuals
and I think that that issomething that a lot of small
businesses do overlook,particularly if there's someone
that they've got all of theknowledge in their head and they
(08:37):
know everything and they'remainly in the business with
everyone else the business witheveryone else.
But if you get to the pointwhere you want to grow the
business and you want to stepout and be doing other things,
or you want to bring more teamon or even step back from the
business because you know a lotof business people have other.
You know they have familyobligations or they want to have
children, or they want to goback and study or whatever
they're trying to do, or they'resetting up a second location,
(09:01):
having those systems in placefrom when you first hire staff,
I think makes a really bigdifference and it's that
induction and onboarding andsetting those things up so
people know what you expect ofthem, they know how to do it,
they know how to problem solve,they know what's acceptable if
you're not there, that they cankind of do as a solution if
(09:22):
something comes up that they'renot used to, and to give them a
level of independence.
And then I think it's about justtelling them, valuing them,
getting them you know, gettinggreat clients or customers in.
You know, I think it's all I'vealways been about.
You take care of your team,they turn up at work, they want
to do a good job, your clientsor customers have a great
(09:43):
experience and they come backagain, and it's just this loop.
It's not necessarily difficult,it just loops around.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
We're always talking about having your team aligned
with what your purpose is inyour business and driving
towards your vision and havingsome investment in what you're
trying to achieve as a business.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
And, of course, that all requires being clear about
that yourself and being able tocommunicate that to the team,
doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
It's hard at the moment too, when often we're
managing remote teams.
Oh yes, so often now teams areremote, or particularly in the
businesses I've had when we hadthe retail business, we had
casual staff.
I'm not going to be in thebusiness all the hours the
business is open.
Or when I had my massage clinic, I had people that would work
(10:33):
weekends and I might notnecessarily be in there or
working on days that I'm off.
So being able to communicate toall of your team all of the
time the things that havechanged team all of the time,
the things that have changed,you know, probably relying more
on technology now.
So whether you've got like aFacebook group or WhatsApp group
, telegram, email text, whateverit is, so everyone's on the
(10:53):
same page all the time.
That's really important too inbusiness.
Yeah, and I think that thatleads to a lot of frustration in
the team.
If someone you know you're notgetting that communication
across to everybody.
I think that can lead to a lotof issues too.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yeah, it sure can, but it's all time consuming too,
isn't it, if you're thebusiness owner and you just want
to get the stuff done.
So how do you address that whenyou're advising business owners
and they're like, well, yeah, Icould be doing all that, but
I've got all this other stuffthat needs to happen.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Well, to be honest, a lot of the business owners that
I have been working with aregenerally solopreneurs, but not
a lot of them have staff or ifthey do have staff, they have
really small teams.
You know, often I think whenthe team is bigger, there's
probably another person in themanagement role that's going to
help them with that teammanagement, but probably another
(11:48):
person in the management rolethat's going to help them with
that team management.
But if you're trying to do itall yourself, it's really,
really hard and I think managingstaff takes a lot more time
than people often allocate andgive to it.
I know that was something that Ididn't do particularly well
when I have had staff over theyears.
I can remember back in the daywhen I used to do everyone's
super payments they used to takeme all day and and only had
like nine or ten people like itwas insane, like it was a really
time consuming making sureeverything's right and making
(12:10):
sure you haven't forgottenanyone and it's getting paid
into the correct account and youhaven't buggered it up like
it's time consuming.
And I think that's probably oneof the things I'd say set time
aside to do your admin or yourstaff management or whatever you
need to do, and so often yousay to people oh, I'll have them
, you know we'll follow up witha meeting or have a team meeting
(12:30):
or have a one-on-one, or youknow someone's meant to be on
probation and the follow throughis not there because you don't
schedule it as somethingimportant and it's easy to kind
of slip over.
So yeah, I'd say plan andschedule.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
So that sort of comes back to what you were talking
about earlier, Lisa, about yourprocesses and having systems for
keeping on top of those things,doesn't it?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
It does.
You know we talk about workingin the business or on the
business, and I think it'sreally easy to get sucked in and
spend all your time in thebusiness and not spend any time,
or and definitely not enoughtime on the business, and I know
that's definitely been one ofmy issues.
Well, you know, at times I'vebeen managing multiple
businesses, like at one point.
(13:15):
You know, we've had threebusinesses at different times.
We've done some nutty thingsover the years.
My husband and I.
At one point between the two ofus we had over 100 staff, so he
was contracting into government.
He had 70-odd staff there, amix of contractors and full-time
and that's in a government role.
And then we had my massageclinic and we had our retail
(13:38):
business.
So I had like 10 in onelocation and 15 on the other or
something and my husband had 70plus.
So, yeah, we had around 100employees between the two of us.
It was nothing.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Do you enjoy listening to our interview
episodes?
As you can tell, angela and Ireally enjoy making them, so
we're always on the lookout forinteresting people we can
interview.
If you or someone you knowwould make a great guest for us,
please get in touch.
You can contact us through ourwebsite at astrohrcomau or via
(14:15):
LinkedIn.
We're always happy to have achat about what we might be able
to discuss.
That can both inform ourlisteners and help you to reach
a wider audience.
Now let's get back to theepisode to reach a wider
audience.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Now let's get back to the episode.
Well, lisa, I know youmentioned in the beginning that
you're working with EnterprisePlus as part of the Business
Connect program and we'd love tohear more about that soon.
But I know you've worked with alot of small business owners
and, like you say, a few thathave smaller teams of staff.
I'm curious are you seeing youknow more recently things that
are coming up for them thatthey're finding difficult in
(14:49):
terms of people management?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
Because I'm either working with solo printers or
they're people who are at thatpoint where they're ready to to
hire people for the first timeand they want to get it right.
And so they're looking at whatyou know, what they need to be
setting up and what they need tobe doing, so checking what type
of business structure do theyhave Are they a sole trader, a
(15:12):
partnership or a company andthen helping to advise them on
what insurances they might needor a mandatory, obviously, with
workers' compensation insurance,and then also looking at making
sure that you know thatsuperannuation, single-touch
payroll.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yes, all the compliance aspects, all the bits
that need to happen, the waythey need to happen.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
So I'm curious, Lisa, with all the different
businesses that you've come intocontact with and through your
lecturing and mentoring, what'sthe most unusual business idea
that someone's brought to you orhas started a business in?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Well, the most unusual one is one of my yeah,
is a client.
They have said they're in theprocess of setting a business up
to change.
I kind of don't want to reallyreveal it completely yet,
because they're at.
They're testing at the moment.
They're testing what they'redoing change.
I kind of don't want to reallyreveal it completely yet.
They're testing at the moment.
They're testing what they'redoing, but they're looking to
(16:10):
set up a business that woulddisrupt the funeral industry.
I'll leave it at that.
Oh, my goodness, yes, it'ssomething really different.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Watch this space.
Yeah, Lisa, is there somethingin the frame of thinking about
people in business and teams?
Is there something in the frameof thinking about people in
business and teams?
Is there something that you seeis the same, no matter whether
you're, you know, five or 10 bigin your team, or whether you've
got a hundred?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
I think it comes back to communication and then, if
you're looking at that aspect ofit, it's probably the values of
the business and whether it's,you know, written on a piece of
paper, on the website and it'snot actually a living document
or it's a living document.
So, one of the things I didbefore COVID I think it was in
(16:54):
2018 or 2019, there's a businessup in Cooma that's called
Bird's Nest.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Oh yes, we know Bird's Nest, oh nice.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
So, for those who may not know, bird's Nest is a very
successful clothing brand up inCooma.
When I went up and visited thembefore COVID, they were the
second largest employer ofpeople in the Cooma region
behind Snowy Hydra.
So you can appreciate how mucha high-growing small business
has grown to achieve that.
(17:25):
So their store they mainly dowomen's wear and I think they do
some kids' wear as well andthey sell online and they have a
range of their own labels thatthey have made.
But at their facility you canactually go it's back on now
since COVID you can actually goup and do a tour and you get a
tour of the shop and in the shopthe shops all color-coded and
(17:49):
there's also there'll be a pinksection, a blue section, orange
section, um, you can seeeverything that's there and if
your size isn't there, you go toan ipad and you pull up the
item like and it's not in yoursize, so you need you know your
sizes on the shelf, so you dialup your size, but it will also
tell you that it comes in redand black and horrible or
whatever.
Then you go oh, I might try.
(18:11):
You know, I need something pinkor whatever in my wardrobe and
that goes through to thewarehouse, which is in the
building next door.
Someone in the warehouse arunner will go get the things
that you've just pulled up andactually put it into the change
room for you.
Oh my, so you just walk intothe change room with your bag
and nothing else.
But when you do the tour youget to see that, you get to see
(18:33):
the warehousing, you get to gothrough They've got a huge
postage section and then you getto go up and you eventually get
to have morning or afternoontea, depending on what time of
day it is, with Jane Kay who isthe founder and she's really
down to earth and she's reallyaccessible and she'll answer any
question.
She was amazing and this was allfree before COVID.
(18:53):
So this amazing event but theirvalues is actually called
Birdsong and each letter of theword Birdsong has like a meaning
behind it.
It's painted in huge letters onthe wall in the packing room
and everyone there lives andbreathes it, to the point where
I get teary when I talk about it.
(19:14):
Like if they're really busy,they've got so many postages to
send out everybody, includingJane, will come down and pack.
You've presumably had stuffsent to you.
Yes, you get a handwritten note, don't you?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
You do.
It's lovely, it's reallythoughtful, it really makes all
the difference.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
And everybody in there says how amazing it is.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Wow, that's great, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, so businesses need to live and breathe their
value.
That, I think, is, like youknow, obviously really a
foundation, like it's thatinduction, those processes, and
then I think it's the living,your values, and then also
communication.
They would be the three kind offoundations.
And then, if you're looking atstaff, you can often teach
(20:01):
technical skills.
But even my husband says thisbecause he builds teams in IT
you can't teach a personality Ifthat person's not the right fit
for the team.
It doesn't matter how amazingtheir skills are or how great
their CV or their references, ifthey're not going to fit,
they're not going to fit.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
That's it.
Yeah, we often say that to ahigher attitude, train for skill
.
Well, lisa, I know you'd havelots of expertise that you could
share with us.
We could sit here all day withyou.
But I wonder if I ask you todrill down to one thing that you
would pass on in terms ofadvice to small business owners
in their journey of being apeople manager.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I think part of it comes back to when you're
conducting the interview Trustyour intuition, like if that
person, if there's something,just doesn't feel right,
regardless of either howdesperately you need the staff
member because you'reshort-staffed, or someone's just
left or someone's gone off onsick leave, or baby's arrived
early or whatever it is.
If they don't feel right andyou can't put your finger on it,
(21:05):
don't hire.
Yeah, because I haveoverwritten that intuitive feel
several times and it's justcaused me more pain and more
grief than the other way around,and I think you can take your
time or you can obviously bringthe person in and give them a
trial shift and obviously paythem for that.
So I think that's reallyimportant Give people a go and
(21:29):
see what they're like and thenchoose.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
I think what you're saying there, Lisa, is so true
I'm very passionate about thatthat, when it comes to
recruitment, doing that slowly,you know, taking your time with
that, and I think sometimes wejust fall into that trap because
we're desperate, you know, andyou think well, this person's
breathing, we'll put them on.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
You know Well, lisa.
I wonder if you'd like to tellour listeners a little bit more
about the Business Connectprogram.
I know that it can help a lotof small business or any
business owner really gettingaccess to an expert like
yourself for some support.
So would you like to tell us alittle bit more about that?
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yeah, the main thing for people to know is that if
they sign up for the BusinessConnect program, they can access
a number of hours of freesupport through the program.
For all of us who are advisors,we all have to have had our own
businesses to be.
That's one of the eligibilitycriteria when we apply.
All have to have had our ownbusinesses to be.
That's one of the eligibilitycriteria when we apply for the
(22:27):
job.
So you are talking to andworking with people that
understand business and, yeah,you can work with any advisor in
the state.
So you can pick and choose.
You can pick someone in yourlocal area.
You can pick someone on aparticular problem that you
might be having or a level ofexpertise or industry that they
have.
So a lot of my clients throughthe Business Connect program.
I have a skew for people in thehealth industry because that's
(22:49):
the majority of my businessbackground.
I've been in the industry thisyear for 27 years, so, yeah, but
it's really great, like for me.
I work with a really diverserange of people, regardless of
where people are.
If they're close by, we meet inperson.
I do a little bit of travelaround my regional area so I do
get out to see people, and thenthe rest of it is online and it
(23:10):
can be at a time of day thatsuits them as well.
So lots of flexibility, lots ofgreat support, and then we will
often know about other programsand things that may be
available, or we haveconnections into different areas
where we can find theinformation if we don't know the
answer.
So there's really nothing tolose by at least having one
session and lots of people justdon't know about the program.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
But yes, we're here to help and it's free, isn't it?
It is free, yes, it is.
That's fantastic.
Why aren't we all using that?
I know earlier on in mybusiness journey.
I went to the Business Connectprovider in my local area and it
was great just to have asounding board, someone that you
can throw I'm going to imagineit's the same for you, lisa Any
(23:53):
question about business.
Like you say, they're connectedwith the local area and
different things that areavailable for business owners,
whether it be a workshop oranother program or someone that
they could connect with, thatcould work with them.
So, yeah, really invaluable, Ithink.
Yeah, we'll be sure to put thelink.
If you would like to get intouch with Lisa and find out
(24:14):
more about the Business Connectprogram, maybe even schedule a
call with Lisa to work with herand get some advice from her, or
just to know more about it insomeone in your local area,
we'll be sure to put that linkand, yeah, go and check it out.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Yeah, people have to remember they need to be
residents of New South Wales ortheir business has to operate in
New South Wales, ah great.
So yeah, if people are inanother state, I'm sorry I can't
help you.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Much as you would like to.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Well, look, Lisa, it's been a pleasure talking to
you today.
Thank you so much for your timewith us, telling us about your
journey and the great insightsthat you have for our listeners.
Speaker 3 (24:52):
Yes, thanks, lisa.
Lovely Thank you, ladies, it'sbeen lovely to spend some time
with you.
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
Thanks for listening to the Work Wonders podcast
brought to you by Asta HR.
Hit the subscribe button now tonever miss an episode, and if
you'd like to continue theconversation with us, you can
find us over at astahrcomau.
See you in the next episode.
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