January 29, 2024 • 26 mins
When Tiffany Slade from Birthing Boldly LLC sat down with us, the air was thick with the kind of wisdom only a seasoned lactation consultant and student midwife can bring to the table. Our enriching conversation delved into the heart of feeding choices for new mothers—a decision enmeshed with heritage, health, and the unbreakable bond between mother and child. Breast milk, with its dynamic nutrition profile, stands unparalleled in benefiting both parties, but Tiffany sheds light on how the formula can be a respectable second when circumstances dictate its necessity. The thread that weaves through it all is the undying need for empathy and support towards every mother's unique path.
As the dialogue unfolds, it becomes clear that feeding one's baby transcends the method—it's about the nourishment of both body and soul within the familial cocoon. Tiffany's journey, a testament to the power of education and empowerment, paints a picture of a mother nursing her child into toddlerhood, all the while fostering a thriving bond. In the practical realms, we sift through the myriad of formula and breast pump options, underscoring the importance of tuning into our babies' cues to promote a healthy feeding rhythm. This episode stands as a beacon for mothers navigating the often turbulent waters of infant feeding, encouraging self-grace and offering a compass of practical wisdom.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tash the Doula (00:00):
All right, everyone, Welcome to season four
of Working Out the Kinks, thepodcast with Tash the Doula.
And today we have Tiffany Sladefrom Birthing Boldly LLC here
and she's going to talk to ustoday about, you know, the topic
of breastfeeding versus formulafeeding and you know, sometimes
I could be a littlecontroversial.
(00:20):
I don't know why, I don't knowas long as a baby's fed, but you
know we're going to shoot it toher and she's going to talk
about her company and what shedoes.
Tiffany Slade (00:28):
So Tiffany hey everybody.
So my name is Tiffany.
I'm born and raised in NorthCarolina.
I'm the owner of BirthingBoldly.
This business was created inApril of 2020.
I've been working with familiesfor over 12 years, so that's
always been a passion of mine towork with families and I've
(00:53):
been working with variousbackgrounds in different ways.
I'm a lactation consultant,student, midwife.
I'll be graduating in December.
Congratulations, thank you.
It's been a journey, but a goodjourney as well as a full
spectrum doula so fertility,birth, postpartum and a
childbirth educator All thedifferent things.
(01:17):
So different types of perinataleducation as well, like newborn
care and postpartum care aswell.
But I've always wanted to workwith families.
It was a passion of mine to bea midwife.
I just came into lactation I'mnot going to say I fell in my
hands, but working with familiesin the hospital with lactation
and then nursing my own child.
(01:37):
I have four kids, so my oldestI had at a young age, fully
nursed him and did well, but wasthe first person in my family
to breastfeed.
So it was new for everybody andit was a journey.
It was a good journey, but itstill was a journey of learning
and also teaching family as timewent on.
So that kind of developed mypassion with lactation and then
(02:00):
circled back to midwifery andall the things working with moms
and babies and families, love,all of it.
Tash the Doula (02:09):
That sounds pretty awesome.
I mean you have all theinitials behind your name.
I mean, listening to your story, the first thing you kind of
picked up, you said that you wasthe first one in your family to
breastfeed.
And I'm kind of curious, do you?
Why, do you think that you mayhave been the first?
Tiffany Slade (02:33):
I don't know, it's just.
I feel like it was just innatein me to always be curious about
birth and breastfeeding Like Ican remember as early as like
before even being in school,like very little, like maybe
five or six, like wanting towatch birth and shows and was
curious about the aspect ofdelivering outside of a hospital
.
So not in a bad , because myfamily fostered my learning, but
(02:58):
they always joke like she's theodd one and the different one
out the family, like she doesn'tthink like this that's what
they would say, which they stillsay but not in a bad way.
So, as a first to breastfeed, Iwas the first not to have a
natural childbirth because mymother and my grandmother's both
had natural childbirth, butthey all delivered in hospitals,
(03:18):
whereas I did with three out offour of my children, I did
birth center for most of them.
So it's just always been likeingrained in me in an instinct
to be curious and interested inthis.
I will say I'll talk to my momabout breastfeeding because as I
(03:39):
went on with having childrenand my family learned more, I
remember my dad just being likeWell, this is like super
beneficial, like why you didn'tdo it, and she was just like
that one for me.
So I don't know like truly whatit was.
But you do kind of look at ourhistory and our ancestors for
the back breastfed.
But as time went on it wasalmost shunned when you looked
(04:02):
at our community because therewas so much trauma for my
history of nursing.
So I feel like some of thatmedicine came from that, because
both my grandmother's had largefamilies, like one had 16, one
had 12 kids, so they had largefamilies.
Tash the Doula (04:18):
No, that's actually something to think
about, like, you know, likegenerational trauma when it
comes to breastfeedingeverything kind of gets tied
down to our history.
But we're not gonna, I guess,delve too far into that because
that wasn't even the topic.
I just asked a question.
So you know I'm a part of allthese different groups because,
(04:39):
you know, being a doula, youknow you jump into the lactation
groups, you jump into likemothering groups kind of like
you know, get a feel of likeyour community and something
that I've noticed in certaingroups.
You know that sometimes thereis this breastfeeding versus
formative feeding fight andpersonally I do think
(05:01):
breastfeeding is better, but ifthe mom can't, then or chooses
not to.
You know, formula feeding isn'tterrible.
So I guess what the question isis there really like a
difference between the two, asin like the baby getting enough
nutrition, or even like thebonding aspect of it?
Tiffany Slade (05:25):
Yeah, so it is the difference and I'm all there
for how you worded it.
It's like the groups they canbe persuaded different ways
depending on what group you'rein.
So, just looking at thenutritional facts, breastfeeding
and breast milk is better forthe infant and the mother.
So of course you have thebonding, which is good, but also
the protection on moms fromlike cervical cancer, the issues
(05:50):
they're having later on in life, the breast cancer, even the
child, like asthma infections,ear infections, diabetes, like
you know.
Tons of benefits that way.
But also the nutritional benefitbecause our bodies make perfect
milk for our babies.
So the milk we have, from likeday one to day five to one month
(06:11):
old, even to toddler, isconsistently changing.
It's never the same becausebabies go through many different
growth spurts and differentnutritional needs and so the
breast milk changes to meetthose needs and the calories
aren't set.
So a formula depending on whatformula you buy, you're gonna
have that set amount of calorieswhen mom's milk changes
(06:33):
calories.
So it's never one set amount ofcalories because it's with the
baby needs at that point in time.
Tash the Doula (06:41):
Right.
Tiffany Slade (06:42):
I bought it.
Tash the Doula (06:42):
It's so amazing, so I mean it is.
It's like you know.
I've heard stories of, you know, a baby being sick and like the
mom's milk would change to givethe baby the correct nutrients
and it needs to feel better.
Tiffany Slade (06:58):
Yes, it does.
And then I know a lot of people, especially with COVID.
You know it's all thatcontroversy like separating moms
and babies and it's like beforemama even knows she's sick,
with any sickness, her body hasalready started making milk,
giving it to that baby beforeanybody knew anything, so that
baby is protected beforehand andit's just our bodies being so
(07:21):
amazing and able to do that.
Now, when it comes to formula,it is different types of formula
based on the child and whattheir needs are, because
different babies have differentmetabolic issues that may need
different type of formulas.
So I do feel like there is aplace for formula, because all
moms have a choice and some momsdon't prefer to breastfeed or
(07:44):
aren't able to breastfeed or youknow any situation.
So I think there is a place forformula.
Of course they try to market itjust like breast milk.
It's not just like breast milk.
They try to get it as close tobreast milk because they can,
mainly with synthetic properties.
But it's not breast milk, butit's needed if a mom is not
(08:07):
going to give breast milk to herbaby.
Tash the Doula (08:10):
Absolutely so.
What are the phases of breastmilk?
Because I know like it.
Like you said, it changesbetween day to day.
You know when the baby firstgets here.
Tiffany Slade (08:22):
So when the when you first deliver the baby, then
you deliver the placenta.
The delivery of the placentacauses the prolactin levels to
increase.
So you have colostrum in thebeginning.
Your body's making milk whileyou're pregnant.
So usually around 16 weeks,your body's making milk, whether
you're leaking or not.
So because some moms worryabout that, so it's there but
(08:44):
you don't usually see it inabundance until later on and
after you deliver the baby inplacenta.
So you have, in the beginning,colostrum really measured in
small amounts.
So where we measure milk inlike ounces, that's more like
teaspoons, is the yellow tons ofantibiotics to baby because
(09:05):
they're coming into a newenvironment.
So that's that protection form.
They don't need a lot of it inthe beginning.
Their stomachs are super small,like the size of a small marble
, and then you have transitionalmilk, which is usually between
day two day five.
Everybody's lactogenesis couldbe a little bit different, but
that's generally when it startstransitioning over, and that is
(09:27):
when it's transitioning from thecolostrum, moving to the mature
milk, and mature milk istypically white, like cow's milk
we drink, and you will havemature milk anywhere from one
week throughout yourbreastfeeding journey, and all
of those types of milk stillchanges depending on the baby's
needs.
Tash the Doula (09:49):
Right, absolutely.
Thank you so much for thatbreakdown.
Just in case you know, peoplemight need like a pick me up or
just like, okay, so why does themilk change colors?
And like, that's pretty muchwhy it's just you know it
changes for what the baby trulyneeds at that moment.
So I have another question foryou.
So you know, I've had a coupleclients myself at this point who
(10:14):
have planned to breastfeed andthen unfortunately, like the
milk just does not come in theway how they want it to.
So then they decide to formulafeed, just fine, but then
sometimes they like feel guiltyabout that or they feel shame
about it.
Personally, how would you goabout dealing with a parent, a
mom, who is going through thatsituation?
Tiffany Slade (10:40):
First with all my family.
I give them the disclaimer thatand not saying it's like this
with everybody.
But I've been doing this for awhile and been around a lot of
lactation consultants and someof them can be super pushy and I
feel like the ones that arethat way.
That causes moms to become morewithdrawn and they don't feel
(11:02):
like they have that opendialogue to speak freely because
they feel like they're beingjudged.
So that is like my firstdisclaimer I make my families.
I'm like breast, breast milk andbreastfeeding is good for your
baby.
It's the best, but is yourdecision and what you want to do
for your baby is what matters.
So I always say like I don'twant any hungry babies and I
don't want any stressed outmamas, because the mental health
(11:25):
can take a president overeverything, because if she's not
in the right mind frame thenshe can't do anything for her
baby.
So I always make thatdisclaimer to them and I allow
families to tell me their goalsand I just work best with them
to get them to their goal.
Because everybody's nursingjourney looks different.
I assure them that whatevernursing looks like for them,
(11:47):
whether that's latching a babyor solely pumping donor milk,
however you want your journey tolook, it is okay because it is
your journey, and I remindfamilies to have a grace with
yourself.
Just especially women anywhere.
We're hard on ourselves withanything, but especially when it
comes to motherhood, and havinggrace with yourself can be hard
(12:08):
but rewarding at the end,because if you're like beating
yourself up, it just makes itway more harder.
Some offer babies just beingfed and the overall family
dynamic to be working, so theyfeel supported and nine times
out of 10, working with familiesand I make this disclaimer
(12:28):
they're more open to me, theytalk to me and even the ones
that started out not breastfeedto or kind of on the fence,
are typically fullybreastfeeding without even
realizing it, because theirguard is let down and they can
be fully open with you and thankyou for saying that like, like
that's probably one of myfavorite phrases Like, no matter
(12:49):
where you are in life, justgive yourself grace, because I'm
like you know you kind of haveto.
Tash the Doula (12:54):
People hold themselves up to like this
expectation of what motherhoodis and what they expect it to be
, and then sometimes, when youactually reach that goal, it can
be quite different.
So, you know, I had this oneparticular client and you know
she felt so bad because she justfelt like you know the way I
feel about her, it was hersecond time going in and she
(13:15):
felt like she faile d and I waslike is this tummy full?
Is he, is he content?
Is he happy?
Then you, then you succeeded,you're okay.
You succeeded Like you didexactly what you had to do, yeah
, and it's okay.
Tiffany Slade (13:32):
I just like my mom didn't breastfeed me and I
turned out okay.
So you know it kind of goes on,can't just solely look at one
thing.
You got to meet the familywhere they are.
Yeah, exactly.
Tash the Doula (13:46):
So, that being said, if we are meeting people
where they are, this is like atwo point question what would be
your top three formulas?
Because there's differentcompanies out there and there's
different things added, like youmentioned before, like
synthetic things that's added tothese different formulas and
they can be a little bitconfusing.
(14:08):
And then now there's like aliquid formula too.
So it's just like what would bethe best to grab if you are
from family feeding your childand then if you are
breastfeeding and you're using abreast pump, because they, you
know, it's like the electricbreast pumps, there's like a
hoka.
So it's like the best to grabif I was breastfeeding.
Tiffany Slade (14:33):
I answered the formula question first.
So of course, with being a BLC,like our code of conduct and
things, we can't promote certainthings and all the formulas I
would say as far as if you havethe basic formulas like infamil,
semilec, gerber, they're allbasis about the same as far as
properties, that's within it,and when you get into like
(14:55):
organic formula, like goat milkformula based, those would
differ some.
So it depends on the parent andwhat they're looking for.
So I always tell parents,especially if we can.
I can meet them duringpregnancy and before the baby's,
even here, and families havethe idea of what they see for
(15:16):
their family and what they willwant their baby to have and some
of them prefer goat milk orsomething like that.
So I have them do theirresearch and find out what works
best for their families.
I recommend a certain type offormula.
Now, if I have babies havingcertain issues where it's like
(15:36):
brief looks or gas, or wherethey need a hyperallergenic
formula like Alameda orsomething like that, then that's
different of course, becausethey're going to have to work
with the dietician, getprescriptions and those types of
things.
But in that basis I just leaveit to families to kind of figure
out what works best for themand do their research.
When it comes down to pumps, Iwill say I don't recommend a
(16:01):
certain pump because everybody'sbody reacts differently to pump
.
But in my years of doing this Ihave seen I would say, the top
three brands that works withfamilies is the Medela and
Spectra, and hands free isusually on Willow or Elvie.
Those two families really likethose as far as a hands free
(16:23):
brand.
But when it comes to the Haka,I do like the Haka and I suggest
families to get a Haka or amanual pump, even if they don't
have an electric pump right away, just because that's a nice
easy way to be able to storemilk without having to put a lot
of effort right away into it.
And I like for, if a mom's goalis to latch, to mainly latch
(16:47):
those first few weeks.
Tash the Doula (16:54):
I haven't got one.
You know, yeah, I've heardwomen say that like the Hawkeyes
, kind of like a little savinggrace, you know, just kind of
just put it on there and it justthe body is, do the body do?
So I just kind of asked.
So here's another one, and Ihope that you know I'm not just
(17:14):
reading into like a lot ofdifferent things, but I'm like
you know what.
I have somebody who is aconsultant so she would know
I've read somewhere that babieswho tend to be formula fed tend
to be overfed.
And is there, have you seenanything like that, like you
know, actually working aroundwomen who are feeding their
babies?
Tiffany Slade (17:38):
So formula babies can be overfed.
But mainly what is theoverfeeding issue is the bottle
and the bottle or nipple, notnecessarily what's in the bottle
, because I have seen breastfedbabies be overfed as well If
they're getting primarilybottles or getting some bottles,
and that's just because thatnipple that's on the bottle.
(18:00):
Typically they mark a differenttype of bottle, the course, but
none of them are exactly likeour nipple and typically the
bottle nipple will reach all theway back into the baby's mouth
to hit their reflex and makethem keep sucking, whereas
nipple doesn't.
So the baby is able to see andfeel when they're full on their
own and stop eating and kind offall off the sleep or relax.
(18:23):
So I encourage pace feeding,whether they're mainly
breastfeeding or given formulaor just using bottles here and
there.
That pace feeding helps tocause babies not to overeat but
also teaching baby stomach sizesso they know how much that they
should be putting in the bottleand kind of watching baby for
(18:44):
to make sure it's not anoverfeeding issue.
Now, with all that being said, Iwill say, because babies digest
formula different from breastmilk and the calories don't
change in formula like it doesin breast milk, then you will
see formula fed babies theamount of ounces usually
increase as they get a littlebit older, whereas breast fed
(19:05):
babies, if they're getting theirbreast milk, it can cap off
anywhere between like two and ahalf to three and a half ounces
at four month, at one month, allthe way up, and sometime that
can deviate and be a little bitmore.
But that's usually like theaverage across the board.
So I think education just comesin the play.
(19:26):
If you can get with a familyand educate them on it, then
they'll see that the babiesusually been overfed.
Now if they've alreadystretched the baby stomach out,
then that's another whole ballthing.
You're not going to have a babythat's used to getting like
seven, eight ounces.
Go back down to four ounces andbe happy with you.
That's right.
(19:46):
Yeah, that's gonna be some work.
They used to the eight ounces.
Tash the Doula (19:53):
And since you already kind of mentioned, like
you know, like when a baby isfirst born, excuse me, you
mentioned that you know the babystomach is about the size of a
marble.
Would you mind going over thesizes of baby stomachs?
Tiffany Slade (20:07):
So around a day old is about five to seven
milliliters the baby can take.
By the time they're a week oldusually about an ounce.
It kind of jumps up but slowly.
They do a lot of clusterfeeding between that day two to
day five.
And that's going to be mainlyif you can latch in the baby and
watch and feed and keys even ifit seems like they're latching
(20:28):
often.
That's fine, that's helpingthat mature milk come in as well
.
And then around two weeks oldthey can be anywhere from one to
two ounces, just dependent onthe baby.
And about four weeks old,that's when they're at that
stage of being anywhere from twoand a half to three and a half
ounces and that kind of staysthere.
(20:49):
Now I have seen some fullybreastfed babies be around four
to five ounces.
It kind of depends on what thefamily's been given up to, but
usually two and a half to threeand a half ounces is that good
safe spot.
Tash the Doula (21:09):
All right.
So, before I let you go, as Isay, first of all, thank you for
being here and also just beingjust talking and giving us
everything that we need, becauseI appreciate it, because it's
really hard to get people tocome on here and like talk about
their experience or just, likeyou know, being able to so
(21:34):
nicely put everything you sayinto a way that's super
comprehensive for anyone tounderstand.
So thank you for that.
So, if anyone let you go, Iwould like to ask you have any
type of success story that youcan share with us?
Tiffany Slade (21:49):
Yes, are you wanting one with breastfeeding
and formula?
A little bit about.
Tash the Doula (21:55):
Um, well, not a little bit of both, because you
know I don't why I have namesepisode breastfeeding versus
formula feeding.
I don't think it should reallybe a versus, it should be you
know whatever makes that babyhappy.
But yeah, go on.
Tiffany Slade (22:09):
Good, okay, um, so I have tons of stories on
both ways where families havenecessarily not been sure.
I've had a navigate, I will sayin particular because this will
help go over digestiondifferences as well.
Um, I've had a family beconcerned like her goal was to
do a little bit of both.
She primarily breastfed, butshe was mainly she was really
(22:34):
concerned because she offeredformula and baby stay for longer
with the formula.
So there was a lot of doubt inher body that she thought
something was wrong with herwhile the formula filled up the
baby and her breast milk didn't.
So tons of education withexplaining that babies digest
breast milk and formuladifferent.
So breast milk is all natural.
(22:55):
Babies get it.
It doesn't stand the intestineslong, so they put it right out.
That's why it's more watery andmore liquidy.
It's not form as much, whereaswhen babies get formula that's
man made so it sits in theintestines a little bit longer
and while it's sitting in theintestines is the intestines are
(23:15):
drawing more water from the um,the school and then when they
put this, more form and usuallya darker color and she didn't
still be hard, but for me youcan still push it down but form
and I feel like after providingthe education, she knew baby
when constipated because that'ssomething she was worried about
(23:38):
and she understood why the babyseemed full longer, because it
was just sitting in the babystomach.
The formula was, so she went onto recipe no issues, she's a
couple of minutes here, there,just as you needed to.
But she felt more empowered byher journey because she had the
education, the back andunderstand what was going on.
(23:59):
And she nurse even past thebaby being one years old.
At that point she didn't giveany formula.
But, yeah, a beautifulexperience, no major concerns,
and got a happy, healthy toddlerstill latching on to the baby.
Tash the Doula (24:15):
Thank you so much for telling that story and
just sharing your time with us.
I think right now might be theperfect time to end this episode
.
So, guys, you have anyquestions?
How can they reach you?
Tiffany at birthing.
Tiffany Slade (24:32):
Thank you so much for coming in and spending time
with us.
Guys, we're going to go aheadand wrap it up.
If you have any questions,please reach out to us.
Tash the Doula (25:01):
And you all have a wonderful day.
All right, everyone, Welcome to season four
of Working Out the Kinks, thepodcast with Tash the Doula.
And today we have Tiffany Sladefrom Birthing Boldly LLC here
and she's going to talk to ustoday about, you know, the topic
of breastfeeding versus formulafeeding and you know, sometimes
I could be a littlecontroversial.
(00:20):
I don't know why, I don't knowas long as a baby's fed, but you
know we're going to shoot it toher and she's going to talk
about her company and what shedoes.
Tiffany Slade (00:28):
So Tiffany hey everybody.
So my name is Tiffany.
I'm born and raised in NorthCarolina.
I'm the owner of BirthingBoldly.
This business was created inApril of 2020.
I've been working with familiesfor over 12 years, so that's
always been a passion of mine towork with families and I've
(00:53):
been working with variousbackgrounds in different ways.
I'm a lactation consultant,student, midwife.
I'll be graduating in December.
Congratulations, thank you.
It's been a journey, but a goodjourney as well as a full
spectrum doula so fertility,birth, postpartum and a
childbirth educator All thedifferent things.
(01:17):
So different types of perinataleducation as well, like newborn
care and postpartum care aswell.
But I've always wanted to workwith families.
It was a passion of mine to bea midwife.
I just came into lactation I'mnot going to say I fell in my
hands, but working with familiesin the hospital with lactation
and then nursing my own child.
(01:37):
I have four kids, so my oldestI had at a young age, fully
nursed him and did well, but wasthe first person in my family
to breastfeed.
So it was new for everybody andit was a journey.
It was a good journey, but itstill was a journey of learning
and also teaching family as timewent on.
So that kind of developed mypassion with lactation and then
(02:00):
circled back to midwifery andall the things working with moms
and babies and families, love,all of it.
Tash the Doula (02:09):
That sounds pretty awesome.
I mean you have all theinitials behind your name.
I mean, listening to your story, the first thing you kind of
picked up, you said that you wasthe first one in your family to
breastfeed.
And I'm kind of curious, do you?
Why, do you think that you mayhave been the first?
Tiffany Slade (02:33):
I don't know, it's just.
I feel like it was just innatein me to always be curious about
birth and breastfeeding Like Ican remember as early as like
before even being in school,like very little, like maybe
five or six, like wanting towatch birth and shows and was
curious about the aspect ofdelivering outside of a hospital
.
So not in a bad , because myfamily fostered my learning, but
(02:58):
they always joke like she's theodd one and the different one
out the family, like she doesn'tthink like this that's what
they would say, which they stillsay but not in a bad way.
So, as a first to breastfeed, Iwas the first not to have a
natural childbirth because mymother and my grandmother's both
had natural childbirth, butthey all delivered in hospitals,
(03:18):
whereas I did with three out offour of my children, I did
birth center for most of them.
So it's just always been likeingrained in me in an instinct
to be curious and interested inthis.
I will say I'll talk to my momabout breastfeeding because as I
(03:39):
went on with having childrenand my family learned more, I
remember my dad just being likeWell, this is like super
beneficial, like why you didn'tdo it, and she was just like
that one for me.
So I don't know like truly whatit was.
But you do kind of look at ourhistory and our ancestors for
the back breastfed.
But as time went on it wasalmost shunned when you looked
(04:02):
at our community because therewas so much trauma for my
history of nursing.
So I feel like some of thatmedicine came from that, because
both my grandmother's had largefamilies, like one had 16, one
had 12 kids, so they had largefamilies.
Tash the Doula (04:18):
No, that's actually something to think
about, like, you know, likegenerational trauma when it
comes to breastfeedingeverything kind of gets tied
down to our history.
But we're not gonna, I guess,delve too far into that because
that wasn't even the topic.
I just asked a question.
So you know I'm a part of allthese different groups because,
(04:39):
you know, being a doula, youknow you jump into the lactation
groups, you jump into likemothering groups kind of like
you know, get a feel of likeyour community and something
that I've noticed in certaingroups.
You know that sometimes thereis this breastfeeding versus
formative feeding fight andpersonally I do think
(05:01):
breastfeeding is better, but ifthe mom can't, then or chooses
not to.
You know, formula feeding isn'tterrible.
So I guess what the question isis there really like a
difference between the two, asin like the baby getting enough
nutrition, or even like thebonding aspect of it?
Tiffany Slade (05:25):
Yeah, so it is the difference and I'm all there
for how you worded it.
It's like the groups they canbe persuaded different ways
depending on what group you'rein.
So, just looking at thenutritional facts, breastfeeding
and breast milk is better forthe infant and the mother.
So of course you have thebonding, which is good, but also
the protection on moms fromlike cervical cancer, the issues
(05:50):
they're having later on in life, the breast cancer, even the
child, like asthma infections,ear infections, diabetes, like
you know.
Tons of benefits that way.
But also the nutritional benefitbecause our bodies make perfect
milk for our babies.
So the milk we have, from likeday one to day five to one month
(06:11):
old, even to toddler, isconsistently changing.
It's never the same becausebabies go through many different
growth spurts and differentnutritional needs and so the
breast milk changes to meetthose needs and the calories
aren't set.
So a formula depending on whatformula you buy, you're gonna
have that set amount of calorieswhen mom's milk changes
(06:33):
calories.
So it's never one set amount ofcalories because it's with the
baby needs at that point in time.
Tash the Doula (06:41):
Right.
Tiffany Slade (06:42):
I bought it.
Tash the Doula (06:42):
It's so amazing, so I mean it is.
It's like you know.
I've heard stories of, you know, a baby being sick and like the
mom's milk would change to givethe baby the correct nutrients
and it needs to feel better.
Tiffany Slade (06:58):
Yes, it does.
And then I know a lot of people, especially with COVID.
You know it's all thatcontroversy like separating moms
and babies and it's like beforemama even knows she's sick,
with any sickness, her body hasalready started making milk,
giving it to that baby beforeanybody knew anything, so that
baby is protected beforehand andit's just our bodies being so
(07:21):
amazing and able to do that.
Now, when it comes to formula,it is different types of formula
based on the child and whattheir needs are, because
different babies have differentmetabolic issues that may need
different type of formulas.
So I do feel like there is aplace for formula, because all
moms have a choice and some momsdon't prefer to breastfeed or
(07:44):
aren't able to breastfeed or youknow any situation.
So I think there is a place forformula.
Of course they try to market itjust like breast milk.
It's not just like breast milk.
They try to get it as close tobreast milk because they can,
mainly with synthetic properties.
But it's not breast milk, butit's needed if a mom is not
(08:07):
going to give breast milk to herbaby.
Tash the Doula (08:10):
Absolutely so.
What are the phases of breastmilk?
Because I know like it.
Like you said, it changesbetween day to day.
You know when the baby firstgets here.
Tiffany Slade (08:22):
So when the when you first deliver the baby, then
you deliver the placenta.
The delivery of the placentacauses the prolactin levels to
increase.
So you have colostrum in thebeginning.
Your body's making milk whileyou're pregnant.
So usually around 16 weeks,your body's making milk, whether
you're leaking or not.
So because some moms worryabout that, so it's there but
(08:44):
you don't usually see it inabundance until later on and
after you deliver the baby inplacenta.
So you have, in the beginning,colostrum really measured in
small amounts.
So where we measure milk inlike ounces, that's more like
teaspoons, is the yellow tons ofantibiotics to baby because
(09:05):
they're coming into a newenvironment.
So that's that protection form.
They don't need a lot of it inthe beginning.
Their stomachs are super small,like the size of a small marble
, and then you have transitionalmilk, which is usually between
day two day five.
Everybody's lactogenesis couldbe a little bit different, but
that's generally when it startstransitioning over, and that is
(09:27):
when it's transitioning from thecolostrum, moving to the mature
milk, and mature milk istypically white, like cow's milk
we drink, and you will havemature milk anywhere from one
week throughout yourbreastfeeding journey, and all
of those types of milk stillchanges depending on the baby's
needs.
Tash the Doula (09:49):
Right, absolutely.
Thank you so much for thatbreakdown.
Just in case you know, peoplemight need like a pick me up or
just like, okay, so why does themilk change colors?
And like, that's pretty muchwhy it's just you know it
changes for what the baby trulyneeds at that moment.
So I have another question foryou.
So you know, I've had a coupleclients myself at this point who
(10:14):
have planned to breastfeed andthen unfortunately, like the
milk just does not come in theway how they want it to.
So then they decide to formulafeed, just fine, but then
sometimes they like feel guiltyabout that or they feel shame
about it.
Personally, how would you goabout dealing with a parent, a
mom, who is going through thatsituation?
Tiffany Slade (10:40):
First with all my family.
I give them the disclaimer thatand not saying it's like this
with everybody.
But I've been doing this for awhile and been around a lot of
lactation consultants and someof them can be super pushy and I
feel like the ones that arethat way.
That causes moms to become morewithdrawn and they don't feel
(11:02):
like they have that opendialogue to speak freely because
they feel like they're beingjudged.
So that is like my firstdisclaimer I make my families.
I'm like breast, breast milk andbreastfeeding is good for your
baby.
It's the best, but is yourdecision and what you want to do
for your baby is what matters.
So I always say like I don'twant any hungry babies and I
don't want any stressed outmamas, because the mental health
(11:25):
can take a president overeverything, because if she's not
in the right mind frame thenshe can't do anything for her
baby.
So I always make thatdisclaimer to them and I allow
families to tell me their goalsand I just work best with them
to get them to their goal.
Because everybody's nursingjourney looks different.
I assure them that whatevernursing looks like for them,
(11:47):
whether that's latching a babyor solely pumping donor milk,
however you want your journey tolook, it is okay because it is
your journey, and I remindfamilies to have a grace with
yourself.
Just especially women anywhere.
We're hard on ourselves withanything, but especially when it
comes to motherhood, and havinggrace with yourself can be hard
(12:08):
but rewarding at the end,because if you're like beating
yourself up, it just makes itway more harder.
Some offer babies just beingfed and the overall family
dynamic to be working, so theyfeel supported and nine times
out of 10, working with familiesand I make this disclaimer
(12:28):
they're more open to me, theytalk to me and even the ones
that started out not breastfeedto or kind of on the fence,
are typically fullybreastfeeding without even
realizing it, because theirguard is let down and they can
be fully open with you and thankyou for saying that like, like
that's probably one of myfavorite phrases Like, no matter
(12:49):
where you are in life, justgive yourself grace, because I'm
like you know you kind of haveto.
Tash the Doula (12:54):
People hold themselves up to like this
expectation of what motherhoodis and what they expect it to be
, and then sometimes, when youactually reach that goal, it can
be quite different.
So, you know, I had this oneparticular client and you know
she felt so bad because she justfelt like you know the way I
feel about her, it was hersecond time going in and she
(13:15):
felt like she faile d and I waslike is this tummy full?
Is he, is he content?
Is he happy?
Then you, then you succeeded,you're okay.
You succeeded Like you didexactly what you had to do, yeah
, and it's okay.
Tiffany Slade (13:32):
I just like my mom didn't breastfeed me and I
turned out okay.
So you know it kind of goes on,can't just solely look at one
thing.
You got to meet the familywhere they are.
Yeah, exactly.
Tash the Doula (13:46):
So, that being said, if we are meeting people
where they are, this is like atwo point question what would be
your top three formulas?
Because there's differentcompanies out there and there's
different things added, like youmentioned before, like
synthetic things that's added tothese different formulas and
they can be a little bitconfusing.
(14:08):
And then now there's like aliquid formula too.
So it's just like what would bethe best to grab if you are
from family feeding your childand then if you are
breastfeeding and you're using abreast pump, because they, you
know, it's like the electricbreast pumps, there's like a
hoka.
So it's like the best to grabif I was breastfeeding.
Tiffany Slade (14:33):
I answered the formula question first.
So of course, with being a BLC,like our code of conduct and
things, we can't promote certainthings and all the formulas I
would say as far as if you havethe basic formulas like infamil,
semilec, gerber, they're allbasis about the same as far as
properties, that's within it,and when you get into like
(14:55):
organic formula, like goat milkformula based, those would
differ some.
So it depends on the parent andwhat they're looking for.
So I always tell parents,especially if we can.
I can meet them duringpregnancy and before the baby's,
even here, and families havethe idea of what they see for
(15:16):
their family and what they willwant their baby to have and some
of them prefer goat milk orsomething like that.
So I have them do theirresearch and find out what works
best for their families.
I recommend a certain type offormula.
Now, if I have babies havingcertain issues where it's like
(15:36):
brief looks or gas, or wherethey need a hyperallergenic
formula like Alameda orsomething like that, then that's
different of course, becausethey're going to have to work
with the dietician, getprescriptions and those types of
things.
But in that basis I just leaveit to families to kind of figure
out what works best for themand do their research.
When it comes down to pumps, Iwill say I don't recommend a
(16:01):
certain pump because everybody'sbody reacts differently to pump
.
But in my years of doing this Ihave seen I would say, the top
three brands that works withfamilies is the Medela and
Spectra, and hands free isusually on Willow or Elvie.
Those two families really likethose as far as a hands free
(16:23):
brand.
But when it comes to the Haka,I do like the Haka and I suggest
families to get a Haka or amanual pump, even if they don't
have an electric pump right away, just because that's a nice
easy way to be able to storemilk without having to put a lot
of effort right away into it.
And I like for, if a mom's goalis to latch, to mainly latch
(16:47):
those first few weeks.
Tash the Doula (16:54):
I haven't got one.
You know, yeah, I've heardwomen say that like the Hawkeyes
, kind of like a little savinggrace, you know, just kind of
just put it on there and it justthe body is, do the body do?
So I just kind of asked.
So here's another one, and Ihope that you know I'm not just
(17:14):
reading into like a lot ofdifferent things, but I'm like
you know what.
I have somebody who is aconsultant so she would know
I've read somewhere that babieswho tend to be formula fed tend
to be overfed.
And is there, have you seenanything like that, like you
know, actually working aroundwomen who are feeding their
babies?
Tiffany Slade (17:38):
So formula babies can be overfed.
But mainly what is theoverfeeding issue is the bottle
and the bottle or nipple, notnecessarily what's in the bottle
, because I have seen breastfedbabies be overfed as well If
they're getting primarilybottles or getting some bottles,
and that's just because thatnipple that's on the bottle.
(18:00):
Typically they mark a differenttype of bottle, the course, but
none of them are exactly likeour nipple and typically the
bottle nipple will reach all theway back into the baby's mouth
to hit their reflex and makethem keep sucking, whereas
nipple doesn't.
So the baby is able to see andfeel when they're full on their
own and stop eating and kind offall off the sleep or relax.
(18:23):
So I encourage pace feeding,whether they're mainly
breastfeeding or given formulaor just using bottles here and
there.
That pace feeding helps tocause babies not to overeat but
also teaching baby stomach sizesso they know how much that they
should be putting in the bottleand kind of watching baby for
(18:44):
to make sure it's not anoverfeeding issue.
Now, with all that being said, Iwill say, because babies digest
formula different from breastmilk and the calories don't
change in formula like it doesin breast milk, then you will
see formula fed babies theamount of ounces usually
increase as they get a littlebit older, whereas breast fed
(19:05):
babies, if they're getting theirbreast milk, it can cap off
anywhere between like two and ahalf to three and a half ounces
at four month, at one month, allthe way up, and sometime that
can deviate and be a little bitmore.
But that's usually like theaverage across the board.
So I think education just comesin the play.
(19:26):
If you can get with a familyand educate them on it, then
they'll see that the babiesusually been overfed.
Now if they've alreadystretched the baby stomach out,
then that's another whole ballthing.
You're not going to have a babythat's used to getting like
seven, eight ounces.
Go back down to four ounces andbe happy with you.
That's right.
(19:46):
Yeah, that's gonna be some work.
They used to the eight ounces.
Tash the Doula (19:53):
And since you already kind of mentioned, like
you know, like when a baby isfirst born, excuse me, you
mentioned that you know the babystomach is about the size of a
marble.
Would you mind going over thesizes of baby stomachs?
Tiffany Slade (20:07):
So around a day old is about five to seven
milliliters the baby can take.
By the time they're a week oldusually about an ounce.
It kind of jumps up but slowly.
They do a lot of clusterfeeding between that day two to
day five.
And that's going to be mainlyif you can latch in the baby and
watch and feed and keys even ifit seems like they're latching
(20:28):
often.
That's fine, that's helpingthat mature milk come in as well
.
And then around two weeks oldthey can be anywhere from one to
two ounces, just dependent onthe baby.
And about four weeks old,that's when they're at that
stage of being anywhere from twoand a half to three and a half
ounces and that kind of staysthere.
(20:49):
Now I have seen some fullybreastfed babies be around four
to five ounces.
It kind of depends on what thefamily's been given up to, but
usually two and a half to threeand a half ounces is that good
safe spot.
Tash the Doula (21:09):
All right.
So, before I let you go, as Isay, first of all, thank you for
being here and also just beingjust talking and giving us
everything that we need, becauseI appreciate it, because it's
really hard to get people tocome on here and like talk about
their experience or just, likeyou know, being able to so
(21:34):
nicely put everything you sayinto a way that's super
comprehensive for anyone tounderstand.
So thank you for that.
So, if anyone let you go, Iwould like to ask you have any
type of success story that youcan share with us?
Tiffany Slade (21:49):
Yes, are you wanting one with breastfeeding
and formula?
A little bit about.
Tash the Doula (21:55):
Um, well, not a little bit of both, because you
know I don't why I have namesepisode breastfeeding versus
formula feeding.
I don't think it should reallybe a versus, it should be you
know whatever makes that babyhappy.
But yeah, go on.
Tiffany Slade (22:09):
Good, okay, um, so I have tons of stories on
both ways where families havenecessarily not been sure.
I've had a navigate, I will sayin particular because this will
help go over digestiondifferences as well.
Um, I've had a family beconcerned like her goal was to
do a little bit of both.
She primarily breastfed, butshe was mainly she was really
(22:34):
concerned because she offeredformula and baby stay for longer
with the formula.
So there was a lot of doubt inher body that she thought
something was wrong with herwhile the formula filled up the
baby and her breast milk didn't.
So tons of education withexplaining that babies digest
breast milk and formuladifferent.
So breast milk is all natural.
(22:55):
Babies get it.
It doesn't stand the intestineslong, so they put it right out.
That's why it's more watery andmore liquidy.
It's not form as much, whereaswhen babies get formula that's
man made so it sits in theintestines a little bit longer
and while it's sitting in theintestines is the intestines are
(23:15):
drawing more water from the um,the school and then when they
put this, more form and usuallya darker color and she didn't
still be hard, but for me youcan still push it down but form
and I feel like after providingthe education, she knew baby
when constipated because that'ssomething she was worried about
(23:38):
and she understood why the babyseemed full longer, because it
was just sitting in the babystomach.
The formula was, so she went onto recipe no issues, she's a
couple of minutes here, there,just as you needed to.
But she felt more empowered byher journey because she had the
education, the back andunderstand what was going on.
(23:59):
And she nurse even past thebaby being one years old.
At that point she didn't giveany formula.
But, yeah, a beautifulexperience, no major concerns,
and got a happy, healthy toddlerstill latching on to the baby.
Tash the Doula (24:15):
Thank you so much for telling that story and
just sharing your time with us.
I think right now might be theperfect time to end this episode
.
So, guys, you have anyquestions?
How can they reach you?
Tiffany at birthing.
Tiffany Slade (24:32):
Thank you so much for coming in and spending time
with us.
Guys, we're going to go aheadand wrap it up.
If you have any questions,please reach out to us.
Tash the Doula (25:01):
And you all have a wonderful day.
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