May 23, 2024 • 21 mins
Witness firsthand the raw emotions and invaluable lessons that come with nurturing spiritual leaders. I'm Austin Gardner, and in this enlightening episode, I open up about the bittersweet symphony of mentorship in ministry. From the heart-swelling pride of seeing mentees thrive and establish self-sufficient churches to the harsh reality of facing cultural misunderstandings and dependency issues, these stories are bound to leave an imprint on your heart. I'll also introduce two key resources, "Are you Called" and "The Ultimate Guide to Building a Healthy and Fulfilling Marriage," to further support your ministry journey.
Navigating the intricate dynamics of missionary work, I dive into the perseverance needed when doubt and skepticism are thrown your way. Sharing my own tales of crossing cultural divides and fostering transformative relationships, I underline the importance of unwavering faith amidst spiritual battles and opposition. As we conclude, I reflect on the energizing facets of evangelism and invite you to join me in the awe-inspiring possibilities of God's work. So, come along and find encouragement and a shared sense of purpose for your ministry endeavors.
Thanks for listening. Find us on YouTube, Substack, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
W. Austin Gardner (00:01):
Well, this is Austin Gardner, welcoming you
to the World Evangelism Podcast.
I want to bring anotherdiscussion to you about
mentoring, and I'm very excitedto have this opportunity to do
just exactly that.
As we get started, you know Ihave shown you this before the
(00:23):
Are you Called booklet and it'snow been updated to 60 pages or
so 50-something pages ofmaterial and a checklist that
can help you as you decide howfar you lack, what all you need
to do from where you're sittingto be ready to go in the
(00:43):
ministry that God's called youto.
I'd also like to show you if mywife will hand me a copy of the
book.
I'd like to show you a copy ofthe marriage book.
It's available also and I'dlike to invite you to get a hold
of it.
So the Are you Called book andthen this is just out.
Let me see if I can get itwhere.
It looks good on the screen,but it is the Ultimate Guide to
(01:12):
Building a Healthy andFulfilling Marriage Strategies
for Love, forgiveness and Grace.
I didn't quite get that in theright order.
There it is.
I'd like to invite you to get acopy of that book.
They're both available to youon Amazon.
Just look up W Austin Gardneras the author and you'll find
those two books.
I'd like to talk to you alittle bit about some successes
(01:36):
when you're a mentor and thenI'd like to talk to you about
some failures and just kind ofgo over some of that with you
briefly.
Today One of the most excitingthings in my ministry is that I
have watched men that I havetrained both North American,
english-speaking men andSpanish-speaking men plant
(01:58):
indigenous churches, churchesthat can go on and continue to
do the ministry that God has forthem.
By that, you know, we believewhenever you're discussing
missions you have to define yourterms, because you'll hear
about people that plant 300 or400 churches in a year and
(02:22):
you'll read about that andyou'll say how in the world is
that possible?
Well, I think a lot has to dowith how you define terms.
So I use a term that comes froma guy named Nevins, made very
popular by Melvin Hodges, whowas an Assembly of God pastor,
wrote the book on the indigenouschurch, and the other book
(02:42):
that's very famous and is alwaysdiscussed by everyone is about
Roland Allen, and Roland Allenwas an Anglican, but the book
has a great message in it.
John Nevins wrote it, I thinkthe first time you talk about
the self indigenous, theindigenous church itself
supporting yourself, propagatingand self governing.
(03:03):
So it's a church thatcan-supporting, self-propagating
and self-governing.
So it's a church that can makeits own decisions, pay its own
bills and can reproduce itself.
And that's not necessarily abiblical term, but it is a term
that you'll have to decide asyou build and plant churches and
as you train men.
You'll have to decide what doesa term mean?
(03:23):
Because if you don't defineyour terms, then it's a very
vague conversation.
So I've seen men start churchesor doing all three of those
things, and I'm excited aboutthat.
I've seen the people that I'vehad a privilege of training
become strong and capableleaders.
I've seen them reach the pointwhere they were able to train
(03:45):
others to do the same ministrythat they were doing.
I've watched the differentmissionaries in all different
parts of the world learn toadapt the truths to the context,
to the place where they'reliving.
That's one of the most excitingthings you could ever see in
planting a church, becausemissionaries have to learn the
(04:08):
Bible and they have to learn alanguage, they have to learn a
culture and then they've got tolearn how to bridge that gap
from one to the other so thatthe people in the area that are
listening to the message wouldunderstand all that's going on
there.
So that's exciting to watchthem take the gospel message of
Jesus Christ and apply it in away that works in different
(04:30):
people's lives.
So what's really exciting is Iwas able to train Peruvian men
especially that were able tostart churches that have been
funded by believers and that aredoing their job, and those men
have now gone in other places asmissionaries.
We have watched churchesmultiply rapidly as we train
(04:51):
people, who train people, whotrain people, and so it begins
to spread and carry on.
It gets to a point where youknow the people you train.
They're making decisions.
I was in a pastor's meeting inPeru one time in the city of
Arequipa, and I was offering ameal to all the pastors.
You had to be a pastor in ourteam to be able to come to that
(05:15):
meeting, and so I'm walkingaround.
The room is full.
There are probably 30 or 40, 50tables full of five or six
people.
Everyone is just everybody'seating.
We're having a good time andI'm going from table to table
shaking hands and I get to thisone table and I can see further
down there's a couple of peopleI don't know and so I'm like,
(05:36):
well, what are they doing here?
They've kind of horned theirwind because this is for pastors
on our team, and when I get tothe table, a pastor I know says,
hey, I invited them becausethey're out of my church and we
started a church with them andthey're pastoring now and I was
like, wow, blew my mind.
(05:57):
I didn't expect it.
I wonder what they were doinghere.
But what a privilege that Godwould raise up people like that.
You know what's beautiful is, asyou train people, some will go
way above and beyond what you'reable to do, and that is one of
your successes You're watchingthem change from you to
something that they can do.
That's even more Just.
(06:19):
Let me tell you that there'ssome problems and failures that
I see when we discuss being amentor and training men.
Sometimes you can train menthat will become overly
dependent on you.
They need you.
Sometimes, if you're notcareful, you can impose so much
(06:39):
of your own training in theplace where you're from so that
you could make Western culturaltrappings take over the ministry
that sometimes.
Another danger is that you'lltry to move too fast.
What you want to do is to see abunch of things happen.
You want to see a bunch of mentrained, and so you'll move too
(07:01):
quickly and the people you'retraining won't be ready for the
ministry that you throw on them.
That'll cause them to getdiscouraged and to leave and to
quit.
So you want to understand that.
And then if you're not realcareful as you train men, you
know they're beginning to maketheir own decisions.
Some of them will even embracenon-biblical things, things you
(07:21):
didn't teach and don't believe.
Some of them will develop moral, ethical failures.
I've dealt with that.
I've dealt with men thatliterally basically tried to
steal church properties.
I've dealt with men that havefallen into immorality and
everything else, and it becomesa massive stink when you have to
(07:43):
deal with that, but that's partof it.
One of the dangers is that therewill be a big argument about
who's really in charge here.
So so many mentees are upsetand angry about you having
leadership over them.
So you got to be really carefulwhen you're training them.
You know you want to be carefulalso that you compart the
(08:06):
biblical vision and not justyour vision and then you let
them go forward doing it the waythey feel God would have them
to do, and then you let them goforward doing it the way they
feel God would have them to do.
Maybe one of the hardest thingsof all to do is to pass the
baton and let the other persongo on and do the ministry.
That's hard because you want tobe the center of attention.
You want to be the guy youdon't mean to want to be.
(08:29):
You're not trying to want to dothat, but it's just a part of
what happens.
Now you know you're going totrain men and some will struggle
and some will fail and somewill succeed and some will go on
beyond what you're able to do.
That's the way it works.
Some thrive and some onlysurvive.
You're going to start and trainmen It'll never get a church
(08:51):
above 50 and you're going totrain other men that may go way
above and beyond anything you'veever believed or dreamed of.
If you travel across America,you'll find that most church
auditoriums are just a couplehundred people 180 to 250 people
, because most churches willnever be very large.
And so we know that when we'redealing with people and when
(09:14):
we're training people, you need.
We know that when we're dealingwith people and we're training
people, you need to know thatyou and the people you're
training may face outsidepersecution and opposition.
As I started training men, I wasconstantly almost the
laughingstock of the othermissionaries.
They told me I was wasting mytime.
They said that by dealing withthey told me I was wasting my
(09:35):
time.
They said that by dealing withthese people I was wasting my
time.
And when you're training peopleit takes longer than it does to
do it yourself, and when you'redoing that, people may think
you're not getting the job done.
Then there will be things orconflicts between your culture
and the culture you're trainingpeople for, and if you haven't
(09:56):
learned to bridge that culturalgap and if they haven't learned
to get to a spiritual position,it can be quite difficult.
And so we have to go and trainmen and some of them are going
to leave us and do the oppositeof what we've trained them to do
, and I think that's pretty hardto deal with.
But I think you have to behonest and you have to know that
(10:18):
that's a possibility as youtrain men, that not everybody
will do what you train them todo.
So let's discuss real quicklywhat it means.
When you're training men, youknow you start with a vision and
you start with a burden andyou're really concerned.
I wanted to reach Arequipa andI didn't even really want to
reach the whole city.
I was working in a place calledHunter and that was really
(10:39):
pretty much all of my goal andall of my heart was to reach in
that area.
But as you start to buildrelationships and you gain some
trust and people start allowingyou to be there and you're there
on purpose God begins to opensome doors.
As you train people.
They helped me learn theculturally relevant way to
(11:00):
communicate truth.
I could speak truth and theycould help me see and understand
how truth was going to work intheir society.
And I began to see livestransformed and churches started
and things happening.
People were coming togetherinto new fellowships and
churches are being formed and westarted doing discipleship and
(11:20):
I was discipling guys that werediscipling guys.
Then we began to identify localleaders.
You know, as soon as the guywalked in the room I was like I
believe that man might have it.
He might not even be saved yet,but I could see that there was
leadership there and I prayedGod would save him and I began
teaching and training and thoseguys then took the ministry and
(11:42):
went on forward and it becametheir church.
I've been gone for 30-somethingyears now and the first church
I worked in is still going andGod is blessing that and I'm so
excited about what he's doing.
And your churches make disciplesand continue to do great works
for God after you're long gone.
But you need to know that asyour churches grow and as people
(12:07):
start coming along, you willstir up more shall we just say
unrest and opposition and peoplenot being comfortable with what
you're doing.
It's one thing when you've gota little small church on the
corner of nowhere and it'sanother thing when your church
really starts influencing yourcommunity and people are
threatened.
They're threatened by yourchurch, they're threatened by
(12:31):
what you teach.
So people mock you andpersecute you and they try to
make attempts that will stop you.
We hadn't been going long untilpeople in our neighborhood
began to say that people weredying around the church because
I was there and because of whatI was teaching.
Another time a religious leaderstated to the community that I
(12:52):
was selling organs and got allthe parents to not let their
children go to our church.
You'd be amazed at what ends uphappening when you start doing
some of the work that God'scalled you to do, and it's going
to call for your courage andyour faith and your perseverance
to stand and not quit whenthings are going wrong.
You know, over in Moroccopeople have been arrested and
(13:15):
put in jail.
In China, people have beentaken by the police and actually
physically beaten a little bitfor what they were doing wrong.
And so as the church grows andin fact moves on, god will raise
up people.
But you need to know that whenyou're in a world-changing
business, it can really have aneffect on you and everyone
(13:36):
you're training, and so it'sexciting to be involved in
training people and equippingthem to do the job.
That's exciting and the churchbegins to come alive and people
begin to step forward and youcan't beat what you're seeing
God do.
What a wonderful time.
But that can lead to backlashbacklash.
(13:56):
You may end up having to dealwith false accusations and
slander attempts to discredityour work.
You need to understand that weare in the middle of bringing
light to a dark world and ourwar, our fight, is not with
flesh and blood, not with otherhumans, it's the devil, and we
(14:31):
don't really teach much orbelieve much, maybe today about
Satan indwelling people, butI'll tell you that people you
train may spread lies andslander about you and in a day
and time when social media makesit easy to cancel a person,
that happened to me back in theearly days of the ministry, but
(14:51):
there was no way to spread itToday it just takes some guys
going online and getting anonline presence and being
willing to be ruthless and theycan take you out.
I just want you to know thatwhen you fight hell, hell fights
back.
I want you to know that whenyou start seeing lives change
and you start mentoring a lot ofpeople, it's not people that
(15:15):
are fighting you, but it's thedevil fighting you, and you need
to be ready for that.
And as you train people, ifyou're not doing it the way it's
always been done, that leads tosome issues and that leads to
some problems, because whenpeople start seeing something
new, it makes them veryuncomfortable.
So you have to stay faithful tothe truth.
(15:37):
You have to continue forwardwith wisdom and grace and love
to help the gospel of JesusChrist go forward.
You can't stop the work of God.
No matter what they do, nomatter what happens to you, the
Lord Jesus will keep the thingsgoing forward for his honor and
his glory.
I have loved being involved inmentoring.
(15:59):
I will say that it is the mostrisky thing you'll ever do.
It is because what will end uphappening is people will attack
you.
Other missionaries may mock you, other pastors may mock you.
Other missionaries may mock you, other pastors may mock you.
You know, whenever you're moresuccessful than the other guy,
you may be considered worldly bysome.
(16:20):
So, whatever's going on andeven your mentees may attack you
you need to understand that.
They may question yourqualifications.
They may question yourexperience and your expertise.
They may come at you becausethey want to be involved and
they get to know you.
When you're a mentor, you becometransparent and vulnerable and
(16:42):
you open yourself up and theyknow you.
They know how to take whatyou've said and twist it and
turn it.
They know how to spread rumorsand gossip if they want to.
I've often said if a man is notstrong enough to hurt you, if a
man is not strong enough tohurt you, he's not strong enough
to help you.
So that's the problem.
(17:02):
As you do the work of God,you're training people that are
strong enough to do you damage,but that's what you've got to do
.
That's a decision you make.
Sometimes they don't like theauthority you have, but they
want to undermine your position.
They want to be sure and pullthemselves up by putting you
down.
They'll ignore the training andthe advice that you've given
them and whatever you've taughtthem.
(17:23):
They may mock you and belittleyou in front of other people.
They may do it online.
You know you got keyboardwarriors that are just online
and no matter what happens intheir life and no matter what
happens in their ministry, nomatter if they get a divorce or
if they turn on God or anythingelse, they don't mind using that
and you want to be careful tostay the course and do what's
(17:46):
right.
They may form cliques andalliances against you.
They may manipulate information.
They may withhold importantdetails.
They may do everything they canto set you up for a failure.
Many mentees will want to blameyou for their failures.
They want to blame you fortheir setbacks.
(18:07):
They don't want to acceptpersonal responsibility, but
that can't be what stops youfrom doing what God's called you
to do.
There may be others that willuse negative influence.
You know, if you ever make thewrong person mad, there's no
telling what might end uphappening, but you've got to
make up your mind.
That's not my concern.
(18:28):
I will do the right thing.
I will do the right thing.
Sometimes they publiclycriticize you.
They seek to embarrass you,they set you up for failure.
They make unreasonable demands.
They retaliate against youbecause they feel like you hurt
them and so they're going tohurt you.
(18:49):
They sabotage the network, theprojects, the relationships, the
work you're doing.
They may easily go about doingthat.
There will be people in yourministry along the way that will
do just what Judas did to Jesus.
There'll be people that willcome against you and try to ruin
you.
There'll be people like Korahthat came against Moses and rose
(19:11):
up against Moses, came againstMoses and rose up against Moses,
and God very likely will notopen the ground and swallow up
your enemies like he has forothers.
You may be like the ApostlePaul, who will have to publicly
call out Alexander Coppersmith,who did him much harm.
They may do what they can topush you to the side and
(19:32):
marginalize you.
I just want you to know thatmentoring is so effective that
the devil has to fight it.
He turns pastors into quiteselfish people.
They learn and keep it tothemselves, only give out what
they do in the pulpit not torisk themselves, because they
know they know how to twist yourwords.
(19:53):
They know how to take anddistort what you're saying and
what you mean and the actionsyou've taken.
They want to maybe harm yourreputation or your credibility.
They may even form competinggroups to fight with you or to
rival you.
They may complain against you.
They may share confidentialinformation in any attempt to
(20:17):
embarrass you or discredit you.
They may make false accusations, unstatuated claims against you
.
They could even threaten youphysically.
So I want you to know there's awhole lot of things that could
go on if you decide to getinvolved in mentoring, but it is
well worth it.
It's funny that Paul would sayto Timothy and to the Corinthian
(20:41):
church and others that Timothywas the only one who understood
him and liked him.
It is funny that Paul had somany different people he
mentored but only two get aletter.
It is funny that even theapostle Paul had to deal with
people that stood against him.
So I want to challenge you tomentor and I'm going to bring
you some more thoughts onmentoring.
I'm going to try to teach youfrom the Bible about mentoring a
(21:03):
little bit and I'll do that infurther episodes.
But I just want you to know thisis the most exciting and
rewarding, but threatening anddangerous ministry you can have,
because you will be settingyourself up out there where
people might try to harm you andpeople may try to cause you
problems, but it's worth it.
(21:24):
You go on forward for Jesus.
I wouldn't go back, I wouldn'tchange it, I wouldn't undo it.
I'm excited about what God'sdone in my life and ministry and
I believe if you'll think aboutit, you'll be excited about
what God's going to do with you.
Thank you very much forlistening to the World
Evangelism Podcast.
I am so grateful I have theopportunity to be with you and I
(21:47):
just want to thank you fortaking the time to listen to the
podcast and I hope you'll shareit if it's of any value to you.
God bless you.
Well, this is Austin Gardner, welcoming you
to the World Evangelism Podcast.
I want to bring anotherdiscussion to you about
mentoring, and I'm very excitedto have this opportunity to do
just exactly that.
As we get started, you know Ihave shown you this before the
(00:23):
Are you Called booklet and it'snow been updated to 60 pages or
so 50-something pages ofmaterial and a checklist that
can help you as you decide howfar you lack, what all you need
to do from where you're sittingto be ready to go in the
(00:43):
ministry that God's called youto.
I'd also like to show you if mywife will hand me a copy of the
book.
I'd like to show you a copy ofthe marriage book.
It's available also and I'dlike to invite you to get a hold
of it.
So the Are you Called book andthen this is just out.
Let me see if I can get itwhere.
It looks good on the screen,but it is the Ultimate Guide to
(01:12):
Building a Healthy andFulfilling Marriage Strategies
for Love, forgiveness and Grace.
I didn't quite get that in theright order.
There it is.
I'd like to invite you to get acopy of that book.
They're both available to youon Amazon.
Just look up W Austin Gardneras the author and you'll find
those two books.
I'd like to talk to you alittle bit about some successes
(01:36):
when you're a mentor and thenI'd like to talk to you about
some failures and just kind ofgo over some of that with you
briefly.
Today One of the most excitingthings in my ministry is that I
have watched men that I havetrained both North American,
english-speaking men andSpanish-speaking men plant
(01:58):
indigenous churches, churchesthat can go on and continue to
do the ministry that God has forthem.
By that, you know, we believewhenever you're discussing
missions you have to define yourterms, because you'll hear
about people that plant 300 or400 churches in a year and
(02:22):
you'll read about that andyou'll say how in the world is
that possible?
Well, I think a lot has to dowith how you define terms.
So I use a term that comes froma guy named Nevins, made very
popular by Melvin Hodges, whowas an Assembly of God pastor,
wrote the book on the indigenouschurch, and the other book
(02:42):
that's very famous and is alwaysdiscussed by everyone is about
Roland Allen, and Roland Allenwas an Anglican, but the book
has a great message in it.
John Nevins wrote it, I thinkthe first time you talk about
the self indigenous, theindigenous church itself
supporting yourself, propagatingand self governing.
(03:03):
So it's a church thatcan-supporting, self-propagating
and self-governing.
So it's a church that can makeits own decisions, pay its own
bills and can reproduce itself.
And that's not necessarily abiblical term, but it is a term
that you'll have to decide asyou build and plant churches and
as you train men.
You'll have to decide what doesa term mean?
(03:23):
Because if you don't defineyour terms, then it's a very
vague conversation.
So I've seen men start churchesor doing all three of those
things, and I'm excited aboutthat.
I've seen the people that I'vehad a privilege of training
become strong and capableleaders.
I've seen them reach the pointwhere they were able to train
(03:45):
others to do the same ministrythat they were doing.
I've watched the differentmissionaries in all different
parts of the world learn toadapt the truths to the context,
to the place where they'reliving.
That's one of the most excitingthings you could ever see in
planting a church, becausemissionaries have to learn the
(04:08):
Bible and they have to learn alanguage, they have to learn a
culture and then they've got tolearn how to bridge that gap
from one to the other so thatthe people in the area that are
listening to the message wouldunderstand all that's going on
there.
So that's exciting to watchthem take the gospel message of
Jesus Christ and apply it in away that works in different
(04:30):
people's lives.
So what's really exciting is Iwas able to train Peruvian men
especially that were able tostart churches that have been
funded by believers and that aredoing their job, and those men
have now gone in other places asmissionaries.
We have watched churchesmultiply rapidly as we train
(04:51):
people, who train people, whotrain people, and so it begins
to spread and carry on.
It gets to a point where youknow the people you train.
They're making decisions.
I was in a pastor's meeting inPeru one time in the city of
Arequipa, and I was offering ameal to all the pastors.
You had to be a pastor in ourteam to be able to come to that
(05:15):
meeting, and so I'm walkingaround.
The room is full.
There are probably 30 or 40, 50tables full of five or six
people.
Everyone is just everybody'seating.
We're having a good time andI'm going from table to table
shaking hands and I get to thisone table and I can see further
down there's a couple of peopleI don't know and so I'm like,
(05:36):
well, what are they doing here?
They've kind of horned theirwind because this is for pastors
on our team, and when I get tothe table, a pastor I know says,
hey, I invited them becausethey're out of my church and we
started a church with them andthey're pastoring now and I was
like, wow, blew my mind.
(05:57):
I didn't expect it.
I wonder what they were doinghere.
But what a privilege that Godwould raise up people like that.
You know what's beautiful is, asyou train people, some will go
way above and beyond what you'reable to do, and that is one of
your successes You're watchingthem change from you to
something that they can do.
That's even more Just.
(06:19):
Let me tell you that there'ssome problems and failures that
I see when we discuss being amentor and training men.
Sometimes you can train menthat will become overly
dependent on you.
They need you.
Sometimes, if you're notcareful, you can impose so much
(06:39):
of your own training in theplace where you're from so that
you could make Western culturaltrappings take over the ministry
that sometimes.
Another danger is that you'lltry to move too fast.
What you want to do is to see abunch of things happen.
You want to see a bunch of mentrained, and so you'll move too
(07:01):
quickly and the people you'retraining won't be ready for the
ministry that you throw on them.
That'll cause them to getdiscouraged and to leave and to
quit.
So you want to understand that.
And then if you're not realcareful as you train men, you
know they're beginning to maketheir own decisions.
Some of them will even embracenon-biblical things, things you
(07:21):
didn't teach and don't believe.
Some of them will develop moral, ethical failures.
I've dealt with that.
I've dealt with men thatliterally basically tried to
steal church properties.
I've dealt with men that havefallen into immorality and
everything else, and it becomesa massive stink when you have to
(07:43):
deal with that, but that's partof it.
One of the dangers is that therewill be a big argument about
who's really in charge here.
So so many mentees are upsetand angry about you having
leadership over them.
So you got to be really carefulwhen you're training them.
You know you want to be carefulalso that you compart the
(08:06):
biblical vision and not justyour vision and then you let
them go forward doing it the waythey feel God would have them
to do, and then you let them goforward doing it the way they
feel God would have them to do.
Maybe one of the hardest thingsof all to do is to pass the
baton and let the other persongo on and do the ministry.
That's hard because you want tobe the center of attention.
You want to be the guy youdon't mean to want to be.
(08:29):
You're not trying to want to dothat, but it's just a part of
what happens.
Now you know you're going totrain men and some will struggle
and some will fail and somewill succeed and some will go on
beyond what you're able to do.
That's the way it works.
Some thrive and some onlysurvive.
You're going to start and trainmen It'll never get a church
(08:51):
above 50 and you're going totrain other men that may go way
above and beyond anything you'veever believed or dreamed of.
If you travel across America,you'll find that most church
auditoriums are just a couplehundred people 180 to 250 people
, because most churches willnever be very large.
And so we know that when we'redealing with people and when
(09:14):
we're training people, you need.
We know that when we're dealingwith people and we're training
people, you need to know thatyou and the people you're
training may face outsidepersecution and opposition.
As I started training men, I wasconstantly almost the
laughingstock of the othermissionaries.
They told me I was wasting mytime.
They said that by dealing withthey told me I was wasting my
(09:35):
time.
They said that by dealing withthese people I was wasting my
time.
And when you're training peopleit takes longer than it does to
do it yourself, and when you'redoing that, people may think
you're not getting the job done.
Then there will be things orconflicts between your culture
and the culture you're trainingpeople for, and if you haven't
(09:56):
learned to bridge that culturalgap and if they haven't learned
to get to a spiritual position,it can be quite difficult.
And so we have to go and trainmen and some of them are going
to leave us and do the oppositeof what we've trained them to do
, and I think that's pretty hardto deal with.
But I think you have to behonest and you have to know that
(10:18):
that's a possibility as youtrain men, that not everybody
will do what you train them todo.
So let's discuss real quicklywhat it means.
When you're training men, youknow you start with a vision and
you start with a burden andyou're really concerned.
I wanted to reach Arequipa andI didn't even really want to
reach the whole city.
I was working in a place calledHunter and that was really
(10:39):
pretty much all of my goal andall of my heart was to reach in
that area.
But as you start to buildrelationships and you gain some
trust and people start allowingyou to be there and you're there
on purpose God begins to opensome doors.
As you train people.
They helped me learn theculturally relevant way to
(11:00):
communicate truth.
I could speak truth and theycould help me see and understand
how truth was going to work intheir society.
And I began to see livestransformed and churches started
and things happening.
People were coming togetherinto new fellowships and
churches are being formed and westarted doing discipleship and
(11:20):
I was discipling guys that werediscipling guys.
Then we began to identify localleaders.
You know, as soon as the guywalked in the room I was like I
believe that man might have it.
He might not even be saved yet,but I could see that there was
leadership there and I prayedGod would save him and I began
teaching and training and thoseguys then took the ministry and
(11:42):
went on forward and it becametheir church.
I've been gone for 30-somethingyears now and the first church
I worked in is still going andGod is blessing that and I'm so
excited about what he's doing.
And your churches make disciplesand continue to do great works
for God after you're long gone.
But you need to know that asyour churches grow and as people
(12:07):
start coming along, you willstir up more shall we just say
unrest and opposition and peoplenot being comfortable with what
you're doing.
It's one thing when you've gota little small church on the
corner of nowhere and it'sanother thing when your church
really starts influencing yourcommunity and people are
threatened.
They're threatened by yourchurch, they're threatened by
(12:31):
what you teach.
So people mock you andpersecute you and they try to
make attempts that will stop you.
We hadn't been going long untilpeople in our neighborhood
began to say that people weredying around the church because
I was there and because of whatI was teaching.
Another time a religious leaderstated to the community that I
(12:52):
was selling organs and got allthe parents to not let their
children go to our church.
You'd be amazed at what ends uphappening when you start doing
some of the work that God'scalled you to do, and it's going
to call for your courage andyour faith and your perseverance
to stand and not quit whenthings are going wrong.
You know, over in Moroccopeople have been arrested and
(13:15):
put in jail.
In China, people have beentaken by the police and actually
physically beaten a little bitfor what they were doing wrong.
And so as the church grows andin fact moves on, god will raise
up people.
But you need to know that whenyou're in a world-changing
business, it can really have aneffect on you and everyone
(13:36):
you're training, and so it'sexciting to be involved in
training people and equippingthem to do the job.
That's exciting and the churchbegins to come alive and people
begin to step forward and youcan't beat what you're seeing
God do.
What a wonderful time.
But that can lead to backlashbacklash.
(13:56):
You may end up having to dealwith false accusations and
slander attempts to discredityour work.
You need to understand that weare in the middle of bringing
light to a dark world and ourwar, our fight, is not with
flesh and blood, not with otherhumans, it's the devil, and we
(14:31):
don't really teach much orbelieve much, maybe today about
Satan indwelling people, butI'll tell you that people you
train may spread lies andslander about you and in a day
and time when social media makesit easy to cancel a person,
that happened to me back in theearly days of the ministry, but
(14:51):
there was no way to spread itToday it just takes some guys
going online and getting anonline presence and being
willing to be ruthless and theycan take you out.
I just want you to know thatwhen you fight hell, hell fights
back.
I want you to know that whenyou start seeing lives change
and you start mentoring a lot ofpeople, it's not people that
(15:15):
are fighting you, but it's thedevil fighting you, and you need
to be ready for that.
And as you train people, ifyou're not doing it the way it's
always been done, that leads tosome issues and that leads to
some problems, because whenpeople start seeing something
new, it makes them veryuncomfortable.
So you have to stay faithful tothe truth.
(15:37):
You have to continue forwardwith wisdom and grace and love
to help the gospel of JesusChrist go forward.
You can't stop the work of God.
No matter what they do, nomatter what happens to you, the
Lord Jesus will keep the thingsgoing forward for his honor and
his glory.
I have loved being involved inmentoring.
(15:59):
I will say that it is the mostrisky thing you'll ever do.
It is because what will end uphappening is people will attack
you.
Other missionaries may mock you, other pastors may mock you.
Other missionaries may mock you, other pastors may mock you.
You know, whenever you're moresuccessful than the other guy,
you may be considered worldly bysome.
(16:20):
So, whatever's going on andeven your mentees may attack you
you need to understand that.
They may question yourqualifications.
They may question yourexperience and your expertise.
They may come at you becausethey want to be involved and
they get to know you.
When you're a mentor, you becometransparent and vulnerable and
(16:42):
you open yourself up and theyknow you.
They know how to take whatyou've said and twist it and
turn it.
They know how to spread rumorsand gossip if they want to.
I've often said if a man is notstrong enough to hurt you, if a
man is not strong enough tohurt you, he's not strong enough
to help you.
So that's the problem.
(17:02):
As you do the work of God,you're training people that are
strong enough to do you damage,but that's what you've got to do
.
That's a decision you make.
Sometimes they don't like theauthority you have, but they
want to undermine your position.
They want to be sure and pullthemselves up by putting you
down.
They'll ignore the training andthe advice that you've given
them and whatever you've taughtthem.
(17:23):
They may mock you and belittleyou in front of other people.
They may do it online.
You know you got keyboardwarriors that are just online
and no matter what happens intheir life and no matter what
happens in their ministry, nomatter if they get a divorce or
if they turn on God or anythingelse, they don't mind using that
and you want to be careful tostay the course and do what's
(17:46):
right.
They may form cliques andalliances against you.
They may manipulate information.
They may withhold importantdetails.
They may do everything they canto set you up for a failure.
Many mentees will want to blameyou for their failures.
They want to blame you fortheir setbacks.
(18:07):
They don't want to acceptpersonal responsibility, but
that can't be what stops youfrom doing what God's called you
to do.
There may be others that willuse negative influence.
You know, if you ever make thewrong person mad, there's no
telling what might end uphappening, but you've got to
make up your mind.
That's not my concern.
(18:28):
I will do the right thing.
I will do the right thing.
Sometimes they publiclycriticize you.
They seek to embarrass you,they set you up for failure.
They make unreasonable demands.
They retaliate against youbecause they feel like you hurt
them and so they're going tohurt you.
(18:49):
They sabotage the network, theprojects, the relationships, the
work you're doing.
They may easily go about doingthat.
There will be people in yourministry along the way that will
do just what Judas did to Jesus.
There'll be people that willcome against you and try to ruin
you.
There'll be people like Korahthat came against Moses and rose
(19:11):
up against Moses, came againstMoses and rose up against Moses,
and God very likely will notopen the ground and swallow up
your enemies like he has forothers.
You may be like the ApostlePaul, who will have to publicly
call out Alexander Coppersmith,who did him much harm.
They may do what they can topush you to the side and
(19:32):
marginalize you.
I just want you to know thatmentoring is so effective that
the devil has to fight it.
He turns pastors into quiteselfish people.
They learn and keep it tothemselves, only give out what
they do in the pulpit not torisk themselves, because they
know they know how to twist yourwords.
(19:53):
They know how to take anddistort what you're saying and
what you mean and the actionsyou've taken.
They want to maybe harm yourreputation or your credibility.
They may even form competinggroups to fight with you or to
rival you.
They may complain against you.
They may share confidentialinformation in any attempt to
(20:17):
embarrass you or discredit you.
They may make false accusations, unstatuated claims against you
.
They could even threaten youphysically.
So I want you to know there's awhole lot of things that could
go on if you decide to getinvolved in mentoring, but it is
well worth it.
It's funny that Paul would sayto Timothy and to the Corinthian
(20:41):
church and others that Timothywas the only one who understood
him and liked him.
It is funny that Paul had somany different people he
mentored but only two get aletter.
It is funny that even theapostle Paul had to deal with
people that stood against him.
So I want to challenge you tomentor and I'm going to bring
you some more thoughts onmentoring.
I'm going to try to teach youfrom the Bible about mentoring a
(21:03):
little bit and I'll do that infurther episodes.
But I just want you to know thisis the most exciting and
rewarding, but threatening anddangerous ministry you can have,
because you will be settingyourself up out there where
people might try to harm you andpeople may try to cause you
problems, but it's worth it.
(21:24):
You go on forward for Jesus.
I wouldn't go back, I wouldn'tchange it, I wouldn't undo it.
I'm excited about what God'sdone in my life and ministry and
I believe if you'll think aboutit, you'll be excited about
what God's going to do with you.
Thank you very much forlistening to the World
Evangelism Podcast.
I am so grateful I have theopportunity to be with you and I
(21:47):
just want to thank you fortaking the time to listen to the
podcast and I hope you'll shareit if it's of any value to you.
God bless you.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.