July 29, 2025 • 38 mins
Carrie’s chasing closure (again), Aiden’s tossing guilt like steak on a grill, and Miranda and Joy give us the emotional intimacy we actually want to see. This week, we’re unpacking the latest And Just Like That—from toxic dating patterns and emotional baggage to that five-word kiss of death: “You smell like smoke. Get away.”
We break down the difference between closure and clarity, why Aiden’s still the same insecure guy from 2002, and how emotional labor shows up in the tiniest moments (looking at you, Herbert).
Plus, a rare scene that made me cry—in a good way. Miranda opens up, Joy doesn’t flinch, and we talk about what it really means to share your baggage without dumping it.
Also: crystal deodorant, passive-aggressive dinner invites, and the official start of Fuck That Guy Fall. You’ve been warned.
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⏰ Episode Breakdown: Toxic Men, Emotional Baggage & the Myth of Closure
00:00 – 05:00 – Carrie’s need for closure & Aiden’s boundary stomping
05:00 – 10:00 – Passive-aggression, guilt trips & the “get away from me” moment
10:00 – 15:00 – Aiden’s control issues, emotional sabotage & toxic dynamics
15:00 – 20:00 – Seema’s subplot + commentary on dating red flags
20:00 – 25:00 – Miranda opens up, Joy responds with real vulnerability
25:00 – 30:00 – Emotional intimacy vs. oversharing & the value of clarity
30:00 – 35:00 – Duncan = Big 2.0? Carrie repeats her toxic patterns
35:00 – 43:00 – Closure vs. clarity, trauma loops & Fuck That Guy Fall begins.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Worth the wait podcast. Hi, Sarah.
Hey, hey, so we've got a lot of emotional debris to cut through
this week. We're going to be talking about
obviously and just like that, but we're also going to be
talking about the issues that came up.
And and this is because this wasone of this was another really
good episode, but it brought up things that I think we don't
(00:31):
talk enough about, like this drive that Carrie has
foreclosure and why it always leads her down the wrong path.
And we've got we've got, I thinkwe have like dual fuck that guys
this week, right? Because we've got we've got
Aiden and we've got Herbert, whoI love, but he's pushing it.
You're both these men are pushing it.
And my favorite moment between Miranda and Joy is sort of the
(00:56):
unloading of emotional baggage and the building of real
emotional intimacy. I teared up at the scene and I I
can't wait to talk about this. So should we just dive right?
In let's do it. All right, now the episode
starts with Carrie dressed like a milk maid.
Yeah. And it was this beautiful green
(01:18):
dress, but it was very milk maidish, still beautiful.
And she comes in. Now, let's remember that in last
week's episode, when Aiden wantsto, he wants to have that dinner
with Duncan, the downstairs neighbor that carries doing the
writing sessions with. And Carrie said it's not that
kind of neighborhood really drawing a very clear line.
I do not want to mix those worlds.
(01:41):
So Carrie comes home and she's saying, Aiden, honey, and she's
going through her palatial home looking for Aiden because there
are so many rooms. He could be in any of them.
And she finally hears him and he's outside in the garden and
who is he sitting with but Duncan and Duncan's smoking his
pipe and Aiden's sitting at the table and hey, look at you.
Come on down. And we all know what that was,
(02:03):
right? We we all know.
Because yet again, though, and this this episode was full of
them. The writers were recreating
really popular scenes from the original series, and I don't
know if they're doing this intentionally or if they're just
really lazy. I don't know, but I'm loving it.
And so Carrie goes down to sit with Duncan and Aiden, and it's
(02:27):
even down to the expression on her face.
She's sitting in between these two men, and she's extremely not
just uncomfortable. But now she's pissed because she
knew she had told Aiden, I don'twant to do this.
And Aiden is being his old passive aggressive self by
making little comments about youknow what, why do you smoke?
(02:49):
Why do you smoke a pipe? Duncan goes into, well, it's
because I'm writing my Stu pieceof just another pretentious
Brit. I already don't like him.
Oh, it has to do with Margaret Thatcher and puts me in that
world and blah blah. And, you know, it's kind of
become like a nipple. Carrie's like, yeah, I
understand, Aidan says. You know, for you, it's like a
nipple. For you, he's being a 12 year
old. And Carrie is just shrinking and
(03:10):
shrinking in this seat because he's very clearly trying to suss
this guy out, right? But not just suss him out, he's
trying to suss out whatever could be going on between Duncan
and Carrie. Because still, 2 decades later,
Aiden is still carrying the emotional baggage and the
emotional hurt from when Carrie cheated on him decades ago.
(03:33):
So Carrie gets really irritated at this and she doesn't say
anything, but she gets up to go leave and he goes to kiss her
and she doesn't even lean in. And I you know, he gets
embarrassed as he should and shetakes off and she goes downtown
to Simas new office space, whichis gorgeous.
And they're they're eating and she tells Seema he just he
(03:56):
plowed right through this boundary that I set.
And Seema said, well, why do youthink he's doing that?
And Carrie said, well, I, you know, I think he feels
threatened. And that's when she reveals to
Seema, well, he kind of has a reason to feel threatened
because again, here's here's Carrie still feeling responsible
for something that she's alreadyapologized for, that she has
already worked really, really, really hard to make amends for.
(04:20):
And she, you know, reveals aboutcheating, right?
She clearly still carrying that guilt.
And so Carrie, you know, ends upgoing going back home and she
has a writing session with am I,am I skipping over anything?
I don't think so. Seema's only storyline this week
was trying aluminum free deodorant.
(04:41):
Carrie goes home. She goes down for her writing
session with Duncan and Aiden. What does he do?
He comes downstairs. Hey, I'm going to make some
steaks. Do you want to come out?
You know? No, Aiden, I explained to you
this isn't. You know, we're not going to be
eating dinner. OK, well, how long need to be?
Why? I don't know what's going to
well, I'll, I'll wait, I'll waitup.
And Carrie's like, you really don't have to do that.
(05:01):
And Duncans hearing this. So Aiden goes upstairs.
Carrie comes home because she's been down there for hours.
Carrie comes home. The stakes are still on the
counter, and she crawls into bedwith Aiden.
I am, I am. I'm taking a breath here because
the amount of anger I felt at this next this next bit of
dialogue, Carrie, you know, curls up in his arms and she's
(05:24):
lying on top of him. And oh, thank you so much.
And I appreciate you understanding.
And Aiden goes, no, no, you, youstink.
What is he you smell like get away from me.
Go take a shower. And Carrie, because he did kind
of verbally just slap her. I.
Don't think we'll ever forget this moment.
(05:45):
No, absolutely not. Because this I I feel as though
was this was just the meanest thing.
Oh yeah, he sealed his own fate,he one. 100% sealed his own fate
in that moment. So she goes to take the shower
and she goes into one of her numerous bedrooms and he comes
in. Hey, what are you doing?
What are you doing? I'm going to sleep.
(06:06):
Yeah, you said get away. Right.
You said get away, so I got away.
What are you doing? So the next morning she gets up
in another outfit that I cannot,I just can't wrap my brain
around. Oh, it's a walking outfit.
It's a walking outfit and he's in the kitchen and she's very
cold with him and he's. Are you still mad about last
(06:27):
night? No, you didn't.
Yeah, I have a right to be, she says.
And he's like, well, then I'm then I'm going to stay mad too.
Oh my God. Speaking of the nipple, which I
now am understanding. Oh, that's that's where that's
coming from. That's the reference.
The nipple, the chill. He's a baby.
He's being a child. And she's like, I'm going to go
for a walk. And he says no, no, the fight.
(06:48):
And then he's like, you know what, I'm going to go for a
walk. She's like, no, I am going for a
walk. She leaves and he goes fight,
you know, go, go for your fucking walk or whatever.
And then break something in her kitchen.
Then break something in her kitchen.
So weird. Where does Wyatt get his anger
from? I can't, I can't do like, what
the fuck did I do, Sir? Where do we start?
Where's the list start? She goes to window shop and I
(07:11):
don't know, Nordstrom or something, and Andy Cohen has a
cameo and she gets a text and he's like, hey, do you want to
meet for lunch at our favorite place at 2:00?
And she's just like, she meets him at this place.
And this is when he goes. You know, I've been thinking
about it and, you know, you're right.
I really have been. I really have been, I don't
(07:32):
know, mad at you or something. What?
Do you remember how he said it? Well, it's key that he says it
in the present. Tense.
Like I have trust issues, you know, when it comes to you
around other men or you know, something to that effect.
Right, and she says have or had and Aiden, because he's clueless
now. I paused.
He was like I don't know. I don't know what the what the
(07:54):
fuck is it different? And I pause this and I wrote in
my notes. He's dating a writer.
He should know words matter. And then I'd click play and he's
like, you know, I'm not right. They're like you.
But that is such a very clear sign of again, you really don't
get her. You really don't accept her
because I immediately just beinga writer when she said it.
(08:15):
And he was like, what's the big deal?
There's a big deal because they're two different tenses,
right? Words matter to carry because
she's a writer. And that's when she sort of
she's had it. She's just had it.
And he said something about, youknow, you got to you got to
fuck. Fucking stop blaming me.
And she's like, you have to stopfucking blaming me.
(08:36):
Like, I thought we worked this out.
And she gets up and she takes off down the street, and Aiden
follows her. And now they recreate another
famous scene where Aiden is saying, you know, whoa, whoa,
whoa. We're like Carrie, Carrie.
And Carrie's like, listen, I have done everything.
I've done things you couldn't eat.
(08:57):
I've done things that you asked me to do that even you couldn't
hold up your side of the bargain.
Right meaning. Me cheating with his wife.
Didn't sleep with anybody else. Yeah, right, right.
And she said I was 100% in one and then she 100% in and it's
just the same as the fight with big right before she goes to
Paris, you and I, nothing. It was the same kind of hand
(09:19):
gesture and the same kind of moment.
And in wait a minute, it was, you know, you are, you know, I
was 100% in what is what does that mean?
Does that mean you're not in this anymore?
And she finally says, you know, no, I need 100.
He said no. And she's just kind of shaking
her head and he's like, well, listen, I need 100%.
And she's like, so do I. And then he said, you know, I
really thought this time we weregoing to make it.
(09:42):
What? Yeah, I'm not sure what made him
think that. I don't.
I don't know where that thought came from, Sir.
Probably. Like as big as dad, That's
probably. Right, right.
So Carrie makes the decision. I'm done.
I'm out, thank God, thank Christ.
And again, remember, something else breaks.
He breaks something in her kitchen.
This is the this has been the theme all season with them.
(10:03):
Something always breaks around them.
And she's finally done. And I think everybody in the
audience was like, oh, thank God.
Because we don't we. Don't want to deal with him
anymore. And the thing I made a TikTok
about this and everyone was saying how we were talking about
how in 2005 everybody loved Aiden.
(10:24):
But The thing is 2005 Aiden in 2025 Aiden, they're the same
person. They haven't changed.
We just know more, right? Like we've had 20 years worth of
ghosting and bread crumbing and trauma bonding and narcissistic
abuse. And now we can spot all these,
these little things. And you know, when, when in the
original series, when he bought the apartment for her and bought
(10:46):
the one next door, we thought, Oh my God, he's just, he's so
committed. No, he's trying to lock her
down. He's literally trying to trap
her. Same thing.
We we never thought twice of thefact that they got back together
after she cheated and they hadn't been dating very long
before he proposed. And if it's so romantic, no,
he's trying to trap her. He's feeling insecure and this
(11:07):
is the only way he feels. He feels like, well, if I put a
ring on her then she won't do it.
Then she won't cheat. He has always, always been this
incredibly insecure man who wanted Carrie to change
everything about herself to accommodate his insecurity.
I mean, that also tracks with the scene in the original series
where, you know, they they breakup finally for, well, air quotes
(11:31):
finally, right? They break up finally for good.
And the next time Carrie sees him, she runs into him on the
street and he's got a baby, right?
And it's very clear that, you know, he's been moving at warp
speed in his new relationship. Right, right, but we can't
listen. Aiden didn't want to be alone.
Aiden wanted to get married. Aiden probably just wanted
Aiden, that guy who just wanted kids, I think.
(11:53):
And he was going to set this up and and do what he could to trap
a woman basically into giving him what he wanted and to to,
you know, to hell with her. And he's even when they're
talking to Duncan, he asked Duncan, Duncan's talking about
his ex-wife and Duncan's and Aiden says, Oh, any kids.
And he's like, oh, no, thankfully no.
And Aiden's like, well, you know, my kids are the best thing
(12:14):
that I did with my ex. I'm asking Carrie.
Carrie said what the what the how do I know?
Right. It just reeked of.
I got married to have kids. Yeah, right.
It did right. It's the best thing he did.
I I wonder what the if that's how his wife feels.
Right. Like is that or do they share
that? I don't know.
But it just felt like, go ahead.What are you going to say?
(12:36):
Struck. Me as a an exceptionally rude
thing to say about your your marriage, like, right, even
though it's over and you're sitting with your new girlfriend
and her soon to be boyfriend, you know, Kathy's not there to
defend herself. And I don't know, it just was
was really disrespectful of their 20 years together.
Extremely, very much so. And what was the what was the
(12:57):
other thing? So Aidan, he's always been an
insecure guy. He always wanted to carry to
accommodate his insecurity. And he was trying to, he was
always trying to undermine her, right?
He didn't want her to go out. Oh, what do you mean?
You're going to a club that needs a key?
I mean, that's like he's puttingit down.
He's always trying to make her feel bad, right?
He's undermining the things thatshe likes with these little
(13:18):
subtle digs to guilt her. He's always weaponized guilt
with Carrie, in my opinion. I don't know if you if you agree
with that. I mean, I would say so.
Yeah, yeah. So that's that, that's, that's
over. Relief but.
I Christ, Oh my God, what a nightmare.
(13:39):
Then we have Herbert, Herbert and Lisa, and I swear to God, if
they mess with this relationship, I'm going to be
really mad. But Herbert, he did that thing.
He did it again. He called Lisa while she was at
work to tell her he'd gained a pound.
Well, that was after he was in the kitchen yelling to no one
about there being too much junk food in the house.
(14:01):
Right, here we go again. With I have a a real easy
solution I would like to propose.
OK. All right.
If you don't want this particular food in the house,
why don't you do the grocery? Shop right, right.
You pick every single thing my guy, right?
Godspeed. It's.
But there we go again. It's another example of a man
(14:23):
expecting the woman to accommodate his limitations.
Right. Like instead of being grateful
that this odious chore is done for him right, he's complaining
about it. Right.
Yep. That's right.
You know, and the The thing is, is that to go back to 18 per
second, like we romanticize thatcharacter because that was he
(14:46):
came at a time when we were still very much about blaming
women. And, you know, people always
thought of the cheating that shebrought a lot of that on
herself, right. So we always kind of felt bad
for him in a in a sense. Yeah.
So I want, I wanted to put that out there.
I mean, I don't think she's without blame for the
dissolution of this relationship.
(15:07):
She's not. You know she's not even
blameless in this episode, right?
OK, wait a minute. How?
How so tell me? Well.
Aiden, I mean, Aiden's behavior is not great.
I don't like it personally. It's not attractive to me.
But I, I feel like what we're seeing is less, oh, the writers
trying to make Aiden a villain Now, then these two characters
(15:28):
are just fundamentally incompatible.
And I'll tell, I'll tell you what I mean.
We'll give you a couple of examples, right?
Carrie sort of bristle that sortof.
She very much bristles when after Aiden has met Duncan
outside. She's like, what were you doing
outside, girl? What?
He's allowed to go outside. OK, yes he is.
(15:52):
But she wasn't wrong. She wasn't wrong.
That he was outside hoping to catch a glimpse of Duncan.
Yes, 100. Percent.
I mean, it seems that way, but also you're telling me that
you're going to have him live there potentially.
This is your apartment, their apartment, right?
Their shared apartment. He's going to meet Duncan
(16:15):
sometime OK, And you being extremely sketchy is only making
him want to meet him more. But he had already met him.
Right, but I'm just saying like they're going to they're going
to be around each other, right, because he, Aiden is allowed to
go outside and so was Duncan. It's not like shoe.
You can't just keep him in a particular room, which what's
(16:39):
that about? You know when he puts when she
puts the cat in the closet. Yeah, you've got an entire
palatial apartment and you yeah,you're keeping your cat locked
up in the small room. First of all, I don't know what
cat would tolerate that. That cat would have destroyed
that door like 4 episodes ago. Anyway, Aiden is allowed to go
outside. That's that's first of all, OK
(17:01):
Second of all, when she comes home and sees Aiden outside with
Duncan, the stank face, you're setting a tone, right?
They're already talking again. Carrie, you are making it weird.
Aiden is being passive aggressive to us because we know
things that Duncan doesn't know.Duncan's rolling with it.
(17:23):
Duncan, you know, appears to be having a decent time.
He's just like, you know, this guy's different than me.
We're having a chat, You know what I mean?
Like Duncan. Duncan is not sweating.
It carries the one who's sittingthere like she is physically
panicking. Right.
She she OK, I see what you're saying.
She was acting like she was acting guilty.
(17:44):
Yes. She was acting guilty.
And that's because she plans to sleep with him, clearly.
That's and maybe, but don't you also think that's just Carrie?
That that guilt that Carrie has always carried in her
relationship with with Aiden, It's always been there.
(18:05):
That baggage has always, always been there.
It's always been there, but in this case it's not helping
matters that she actually is attracted to him, as we've we've
clearly seen. Yes, right.
I can agree with that. And I mean, I feel like the
whole discussion about like, well, you thought I was gonna be
monogamous for five years. Like, really?
(18:26):
That whole discussion, I think, was placed very strategically
after we saw Carrie and Duncan at the party and the writers,
you know, forced them together. Even though Duncan obviously
should be with Seema, He's not going to be.
Yeah. So obviously the writers are
going to, you know, they're going to shoehorn those two
together. But yeah, Carrie acting like an
(18:48):
absolute maniac on the patio, like you're acting guilty as
fuck. You're acting embarrassed of
Aiden, which is embarrassing to Aiden, right?
So like, like they're just feeding off of each other's
negative energy, I think, right?And then when Aiden comes to the
door and he's like, hey, it's it's dinner time.
(19:08):
You guys want dinner? She's like, bitch, what?
It's nice to be offered dinner that you don't have to make.
What the fuck? Wait, stop.
I'm sorry. You're being ridiculous right
now. I'm not.
You are. I love you.
But we both know what he was doing, all right?
That wasn't about dinner. That was about him wanting to
(19:29):
see. Is she cheating on me?
What's going on there? Hey, I'm still here.
Come on. That wasn't about dinner.
Stop. It I don't think it was a mean
spirited or invasive gesture. I think it's very reasonable for
him to be like, it's dinner, do you want dinner?
I'm sorry, Does is his phone notworking?
Hey, babe. Hey, babe.
(19:50):
Do you want me to save you some steak?
Do you want to come, Mommy, to make you a steak?
It. He didn't have to come down.
He didn't have to. He chose.
Yeah, he didn't have to, but again, like, why is it a
problem? Come on, come on.
For she's working, she's working.
Right. She's working at her own
leisurely pace, and so is he. They're they're not on a time
(20:12):
clock, they're on their own time.
I just so disagree with this. I really.
You're free to. I just think that's not helping
matters, right? To be like embarrassed about him
offering to bring down dinner. I mean, and and also like you
didn't even ask Duncan. Like you weren't even like, oh,
I don't know, do you want to stop?
Like, what if you wanted the steak?
You know what I mean? It's just so clear that Carrie
(20:34):
is like embarrassed of Aiden in that moment.
And it happened. Yes, of course.
Nobody wants. But again, you are.
You're responding to all of the things we know about their
relationship. This looks really weird to
Duncan. Duncan is seeing this as like,
yeah, it's 8:00. The man is offering dinner.
(20:54):
The woman is unhinged. I don't know.
I think he's adept enough to be able to pick up on the tension
between them, don't you think? But I think from his point of
view, care is the 1 making it weird because I mean I think
that's what's happening. OK, I'm going to agree to
disagree with you. You know, I respect and love
you, but I vehemently disagree with you on this, on this one.
(21:16):
But back to Herbert and Lisa, because Lisa, I don't know,
they're showing us very little of this relationship work, which
I'm kind of relieved with because I just don't want to see
this. I don't want to see this happen.
They're they're planting the seeds that Lisa is going to get
really, she's going to start to feel very unappreciated, which
(21:38):
she is. She's going to start to feel
like because it's one of those cases of the woman doing the
emotional labor in the relationship and she's doing
most of it and she's getting fedup and you know, she's I don't
want to see her cheat as a way of, I don't know, to feel
appreciated to I, I don't know, I just, I hate this whole thing.
Please don't break these two up,please.
(22:00):
Yeah, I don't want to see her cheat either, but mostly because
it's it's a storyline killer. Like where do you, where does it
go from there, you know? It's a relationship killer
because they're they're they're never going to get back together
if that's the case. So that happened Now let's let's
talk about the highlight for me,Miranda and Joy.
So Miranda comes, Joy goes over to Miranda's apartment and she's
(22:22):
looking for her gin. Now remember last episode,
Miranda was very tempted to takethe gin because Joy had left it
there because I don't know why, because she I guess she wanted
to have a spare or whatever. And Miranda almost drank it.
She had to throw it out because it was too tempting.
She thought she was going to be alcoholic.
And she's like, Nope, I am very much alcoholic and and I'm not
(22:43):
putting an ick on alcoholic. I'm pronouncing the word.
So Joy's looking for the gin. She wants to make herself a
drink and she's saying, I can't find my gin.
And at first, Miranda tries to blame blame the the the woman
who like manages her apartment. Yeah, and you didn't clock that
as problematic? I absolutely fucking did.
I absolutely did. Like you're blaming the help.
(23:05):
Really. Yeah.
Really. My housekeeper Russell stolen
it. Right, Miranda, you know better
than that, right? Anyway, so Joy is saying I take
I take that to me, my gin isn't here.
And Miranda's realizing she she's lying and she doesn't want
to do that. So she sits Joy down and she's
like, you know, I threw it out. And Joy looks upset.
(23:26):
And I at first, God, please don't let this go in a bad
direction. And Miranda's like, listen, I'm
not someone who drinks occasionally or just doesn't
drink. She says I'm an alcoholic and I,
I, I just, I couldn't be around it.
And I really hate to bring this very not fun thing into this
very fun thing that that we havegoing.
(23:47):
And joy's like, OK, you know, sothis is this is a test.
And at first I was like, what doyou what is she saying?
And she said she shares that, you know how she totally
understands it. You know, this is, you know, I'm
somebody who likes to have a drink when I'm, you know,
feeling uncomfortable or when whatever.
And, you know, I, she basically says I like to drink when I
(24:11):
don't like myself, which is, andyou know, she's basically saying
like, you know, I, I have, I have some, some baggage here and
I drink because it just makes mefeel better.
And she talks about, she says, you know, she talks about her
baggage. And Miranda says, I have plenty
of room, right? I have plenty of room, you know,
plenty of space. And I cried, I cried at that
(24:34):
because I thought it was becausethere was Joy saying, you know,
because you really do look at Joy and you think she kind of
has it all together. And we really haven't seen any,
any cracks in the surface exceptfor leaving the gym there.
And we see how she just decides,well, let me, I'm going to, I'm
going to let you in. I'm going to tell you something.
I'm going to make myself vulnerable.
(24:55):
Joy has alluded before to being a sad girl.
Yep. I think this is a really
interesting follow up to Mirandatrying to date Che, the stand up
comedian. Well, yes.
Who performed no comedy. But I digress.
But I digress. Yeah, to go from to go from the
(25:15):
stand up comedian to the sad girl is a really interesting
move You. Know I don't know if she's a sad
girl. Oh, it seems that way.
OK, The thing is, this is Miranda's very first, I think,
real adult relationship. Yeah, totally.
Her other relationships with Chay, with Steve, they were both
(25:36):
constantly trying to undermine her constantly.
You know, Miranda, there she is.She's working really hard.
She's, I don't know, she's trying to get partner or she
just recently gets named a partner at her firm.
She's working, work and working and she's too busy or too tired
to have sex. And what does Steve do?
Cheats on her. What is, you know, he's he has
to undermine her when she's trying to, you know, when she's
(25:58):
there, she is, she's working andhe, you know, watching
scooby-doo and he wants to get adog and she's trying to work and
he's trying. He makes her feel bad for for
being an adult, right? You know, she's paying the bills
for that place that he's stayingin while he's bartending and
he's probably barely getting by and he's making her feel bad.
(26:18):
He's kind of and I love Steve, don't get me wrong, But like
I've always said, Miranda has always needed to be mean mommy
in her relationships. And Steve, Steve was very
passive aggressive in the way that he would sort of chip away
at Miranda because they released.
They were never equals. Miranda never saw them as
equals. No, and Che was just fucking
aggressive. Aggressive, right?
(26:39):
Che gets up on stage and humiliates Miranda, and when
Miranda is upset about it, Che tries to make Miranda feel bad
for being upset. Right, Right.
You know, Che not recognizing that Miranda, this is all new to
her, right, the new career and but school and you know, her
sexuality and she's she's separated and this is she's
(27:01):
coming to terms with an awful lot.
And Che, who is very comfortablein who they are, is basic,
basically making fun of her to her face.
Yeah, she made her life the punchline.
She really did, and she was. Somehow without telling a joke
still, but yeah. Right, right.
And always was trying to make Miranda feel like she was being
needy, right? Whereas with joy, that
(27:26):
conversation the other night could have gone a different way.
It could have gone into she could have shamed Miranda,
right? Well, listen, you know, I
totally get that. But I like to be able to drink
and not feel guilty about it because she says that to
Miranda. She says, because you know, I'd
like to feel have a drink and now I'm going to feel weird or
I'm going to feel uncomfortable.And Miranda's like, no, no, no,
(27:46):
you don't have to do that. And then she says, but but no,
no, let me finish. I'm uncomfortable because she's
uncomfortable with who she is, right.
That could have gone. She could have just shamed
Miranda and she didn't. Instead, she, she was an adult
and she owned her own feelings and she communicated her
feelings and it was so refreshing, right?
(28:06):
Because it was just this such a very pure moment of
vulnerability and that like, that's the foundation of
emotional intimacy. And I feel like we've really
gotten away from that, not just in pop culture or social media,
but just in general. I think very often people open
up and or confess things. Confess is a weird word because
(28:28):
it sort of implies that you're sharing a shameful secret, but
you are sharing something, you know, private, right?
But God, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
And you, you're doing that in the moment because you feel
comfortable and it feels like the right time.
But very, yeah, very often afterthe fact, you discover that the
person you have shared this information with respond is
(28:50):
responding negatively in a variety of ways.
Right. They're passive aggressive about
it. That goes to whatever.
There's a spectrum. Right.
Would you agree that we have commodified vulnerability?
I think sometimes, yeah. I mean, I I think social media
for sure, but what you know how I feel about this women's media
started this 15 years ago with the exo Jane happened to me
(29:13):
ridiculously private, insanely private stories where this this
niche just exploited women's trauma.
I just and this and I think Thisis why I was so moved by the
scene is because it was such an authentic display or expression
of vulnerability. You know, it was done privately
and I know people like these arenot real people.
You realize that, Yes, I realizethat.
(29:35):
But I feel as though we should shine a light and praise moments
of this kind of authentic vulnerability because we just,
we've got so far away from it. In my opinion.
We've got so far away from it. It's like this weird
substitution where we we've almost sort of just started over
sharing instead. Right over sharing really has
become the the default. Right, and it's not really the
(29:58):
same thing. No, no, not at all.
So I, I want to see them. I really want to see them stay
together because it's the first relationship that Miranda's had
with someone who doesn't, who isn't sort of constantly
throwing darts at her right? And I want to see where that
goes. I, I don't want them to listen.
I don't want Joy to be perfect. She's there.
(30:19):
We're never perfect, but I do want to, I want to see these two
women. You know, here's Miranda in this
place where for her to say I'm not, you know, someone who just
drinks occasionally doesn't drink.
I'm an alcoholic. That is a big deal.
That's a big revel. Like that's a that's a very
heavy statement. She's putting it out there.
She's making it. And she knew, she knew having
(30:40):
this conversation, this could goone of two ways.
And a lot of times people would just keep that stuff, something
like that, and not reveal it because they don't want people
to see the the, they don't want people to see the, I don't know.
Well, they maybe just, yeah, don't awards to know that.
Right. They don't write that.
Yeah, I. Think that's probably true if
(31:01):
you're a recovering addict of a different sort, but I don't
know. Being alcoholic is kind of hard
to hide. I think it's got to come up
fairly early. Yeah, I agree.
But I think it had already come up.
But I think Miranda's kind of always been like, you know, I
just don't train. Or has she ever said, I wonder,
has she ever said to Joy that she doesn't drink because she's
(31:24):
an alcoholic? It seems like not until this
episode. Not until that episode.
Yeah, that was what I that was the sense I had, too.
So rooting for these two crazy kids.
I want to go back to Carrie and Aiden for a second because we
obviously see that she's going to they're going.
They're pairing her with the guydownstairs, Duncan.
Yeah. Right.
(31:44):
And it's it's another instance of Carrie, the red flags just
being waving in her face, Carrieseeing the guy for who who he is
and seeing the red flags and just plowing right through.
Because so far this guy has screamed at her, told her to
take her shoes off in the building, that she fucking owns
nothing. I disagree with him, I think he
could have done it in a nicer way.
(32:05):
He has talked negatively about his ex-wife.
And let's not forget he was a complete Dick to the garden of
special needs. Nephew, right?
Doesn't he kind of remind you ofbig?
Yes, yeah, yes. Because we can already tell this
guy is another fucking emotionalvault.
There's nothing there. There's no emotions there.
And they're going to, I think they're going to pair her with
(32:28):
him. And you know what?
I would love, I would love for her to be like, you know what, I
think I need to be on my own or,or you know, you just can't give
me what I need. You know, I need someone who's
more emotionally present. So I need to see growth in
Carrie. I do, I need to see it.
And the problem with Carrie is that Carrie has always, always
(32:51):
pursued closure in her. Every time a relationship would
crash and burn, which is every time instead of doing a post
mortem, she would immediately try to jump into another
relationship and she would use that relationship to get closure
for the previous relationship oreven.
Worse, she'd be like let's be friends X.
Right. Oh my God.
Yeah. And I say again, and I brought
(33:13):
this up with my trauma recovery background, Carrie Bradshaw is
the most classic fictional example of repetition,
compulsion, and action. Yeah, yeah.
That's why I think it's really interesting that Duncan is so
big, like you're saying, emotionally unavailable.
Are they all emotionally unavailable?
Or again, are they incompatible with Carrie?
(33:33):
I feel like we saw growth in Bigover the course of his
character. You know, he was with us for
many years. And I, I think I feel like what
we learned about Big is he struggled with Carrie for so
long because probably he needed to be dating someone much more
secure. No, no, big was wait a minute, I
want to get to this because I want to finish my first thought
(33:54):
because my ADHD brain will absolutely forget it.
But I stick a pin on this. Remind me Carrie looks
foreclosure when she should be looking for clarity because
clarity is more internal. Clarity is is about assessing a
situation objectively and identifying what you could have
done differently and what you did perfectly or or what you
(34:15):
didn't do wrong, right. It's if that's how you get your
control and your power back is through clarity, not through
closure. Closure doesn't really exist.
No it does not. You never really get it.
The, the goal really should always be clarity.
So that and we, I think we talked about this when with the
whole thing with Sam, when Sam passed and I was sort of on that
loop in the just putting myself in that situation of being sort
(34:39):
of traumatized at the loss of somebody.
And I spent a good few months trying to why am I doing this?
Why do I keep putting myself in this situation?
And I really thought that I had healed from this, this
abandonment stuff or whatever. I, I was trying to close
something when I really should have been trying to, I really
(35:00):
should have been acknowledging the clarity that I gained over
the last several years because several years ago, I don't know,
listen, this is the first time that I've ever been like, yeah,
why do I do this? And I've been doing these, these
end of life cares, whatever for years.
But this was the first time. And I was like, wait a minute,
why am I that's clarity. And that was able to, to help me
(35:21):
work through it. Trying to get closures was, was
what was re traumatizing me overand over and over again.
And Carrie just she doesn't do apost mortem.
She doesn't assess her relationships.
She doesn't want to. She uses men to help heal her
unresolved trauma. Well, she she thinks she does.
Or at least she used to think that she used to.
(35:41):
Right, 'cause she used to do some version of that in her
column. Yeah, Although I would argue
that she wasn't. She was doing it in a
performative way. She wasn't really doing the work
right cuz it always ended up with a pawn.
Yeah, but to your point about big.
Yeah, it's really easy to vilifyBig.
(36:03):
And he's not great, right? He's not great.
He's not demonstrative, certainly.
But I think, you know, I just don't think he's evil.
I think he just shouldn't have been with Carrie.
I think he needed a woman who was insecure.
I think he he needed the drama. We've talked about this Natasha,
he said it beige, she was too beige.
She was. Too, That's true.
(36:24):
Right. He needed somebody
unpredictable. We didn't.
We never got the story of his first wife, did we?
Other than. Pretty amicable, right?
Considering. He cheated on her.
Yeah, but we didn't. We didn't get the story.
No. Maybe that's the whole story,
just that he cheated on her. Maybe that's it.
Yeah, and again, we just kind oflike Bloop.
Let's ignore that red flag. Yeah.
(36:47):
So All in all, great episode. I really love, I don't know, I'd
love to talk more about emotional baggage and when you
reveal these things, because when do you when do you talk
about your trauma, right, with somebody, even if whether it's a
friend, whether it's a potentialromantic partner, it's it's so
daunting because you don't know if you're going to be judged for
(37:07):
it, right? And you don't know if it's going
to drive a wedge between someonegoing to get uncomfortable.
It's tricky. It's a very, very tricky
situation. All right, if you're not
following us on Patreon, please make sure to follow us because
we're starting up with the bonuscontent again.
So go to patreon.com/worth. The wait.
They are bonus episodes. They're not just the advice
(37:28):
letters. They're not just these, these
recaps, they're they, some of them are going to be regular
episodes. Some of them are going to be
sort of one off topics. The one that we're working on
now or the one I'm working on onnow is how to how to use dating
apps without destroying your mental health.
So that's coming up. So go to patreon.com/worth the
(37:50):
wait. You will get the advice letters,
the private posts and the bonus content.
Make sure you're following us onTikTok, Instagram and YouTube at
Worth the Wait show. Send in your questions to
hello@datologycoach.com or just go to datologycoach.com and
submit your question. And if you're looking for a
dating profile review, go to dataologycoach.com.
Book a session with me. Sarah, do you have anything?
(38:12):
Aiden Schwalzer, Fuck that guy of the of the week.
Herbert Yeah, we've got many, many Fuck That guys of the week
and it was kind of Duncan and definitely Aiden and kind of
Herbert. I'm very disappointed, but those
were our fuck that guy Palooza, we're heading into Fuck that guy
fall. So remember that blog.
Witches, Warlocks, days value your time.
Decenter men, center yourself a goodbye.
Worth the wait podcast. Hi, Sarah.
Hey, hey, so we've got a lot of emotional debris to cut through
this week. We're going to be talking about
obviously and just like that, but we're also going to be
talking about the issues that came up.
And and this is because this wasone of this was another really
good episode, but it brought up things that I think we don't
(00:31):
talk enough about, like this drive that Carrie has
foreclosure and why it always leads her down the wrong path.
And we've got we've got, I thinkwe have like dual fuck that guys
this week, right? Because we've got we've got
Aiden and we've got Herbert, whoI love, but he's pushing it.
You're both these men are pushing it.
And my favorite moment between Miranda and Joy is sort of the
(00:56):
unloading of emotional baggage and the building of real
emotional intimacy. I teared up at the scene and I I
can't wait to talk about this. So should we just dive right?
In let's do it. All right, now the episode
starts with Carrie dressed like a milk maid.
Yeah. And it was this beautiful green
(01:18):
dress, but it was very milk maidish, still beautiful.
And she comes in. Now, let's remember that in last
week's episode, when Aiden wantsto, he wants to have that dinner
with Duncan, the downstairs neighbor that carries doing the
writing sessions with. And Carrie said it's not that
kind of neighborhood really drawing a very clear line.
I do not want to mix those worlds.
(01:41):
So Carrie comes home and she's saying, Aiden, honey, and she's
going through her palatial home looking for Aiden because there
are so many rooms. He could be in any of them.
And she finally hears him and he's outside in the garden and
who is he sitting with but Duncan and Duncan's smoking his
pipe and Aiden's sitting at the table and hey, look at you.
Come on down. And we all know what that was,
(02:03):
right? We we all know.
Because yet again, though, and this this episode was full of
them. The writers were recreating
really popular scenes from the original series, and I don't
know if they're doing this intentionally or if they're just
really lazy. I don't know, but I'm loving it.
And so Carrie goes down to sit with Duncan and Aiden, and it's
(02:27):
even down to the expression on her face.
She's sitting in between these two men, and she's extremely not
just uncomfortable. But now she's pissed because she
knew she had told Aiden, I don'twant to do this.
And Aiden is being his old passive aggressive self by
making little comments about youknow what, why do you smoke?
(02:49):
Why do you smoke a pipe? Duncan goes into, well, it's
because I'm writing my Stu pieceof just another pretentious
Brit. I already don't like him.
Oh, it has to do with Margaret Thatcher and puts me in that
world and blah blah. And, you know, it's kind of
become like a nipple. Carrie's like, yeah, I
understand, Aidan says. You know, for you, it's like a
nipple. For you, he's being a 12 year
old. And Carrie is just shrinking and
(03:10):
shrinking in this seat because he's very clearly trying to suss
this guy out, right? But not just suss him out, he's
trying to suss out whatever could be going on between Duncan
and Carrie. Because still, 2 decades later,
Aiden is still carrying the emotional baggage and the
emotional hurt from when Carrie cheated on him decades ago.
(03:33):
So Carrie gets really irritated at this and she doesn't say
anything, but she gets up to go leave and he goes to kiss her
and she doesn't even lean in. And I you know, he gets
embarrassed as he should and shetakes off and she goes downtown
to Simas new office space, whichis gorgeous.
And they're they're eating and she tells Seema he just he
(03:56):
plowed right through this boundary that I set.
And Seema said, well, why do youthink he's doing that?
And Carrie said, well, I, you know, I think he feels
threatened. And that's when she reveals to
Seema, well, he kind of has a reason to feel threatened
because again, here's here's Carrie still feeling responsible
for something that she's alreadyapologized for, that she has
already worked really, really, really hard to make amends for.
(04:20):
And she, you know, reveals aboutcheating, right?
She clearly still carrying that guilt.
And so Carrie, you know, ends upgoing going back home and she
has a writing session with am I,am I skipping over anything?
I don't think so. Seema's only storyline this week
was trying aluminum free deodorant.
(04:41):
Carrie goes home. She goes down for her writing
session with Duncan and Aiden. What does he do?
He comes downstairs. Hey, I'm going to make some
steaks. Do you want to come out?
You know? No, Aiden, I explained to you
this isn't. You know, we're not going to be
eating dinner. OK, well, how long need to be?
Why? I don't know what's going to
well, I'll, I'll wait, I'll waitup.
And Carrie's like, you really don't have to do that.
(05:01):
And Duncans hearing this. So Aiden goes upstairs.
Carrie comes home because she's been down there for hours.
Carrie comes home. The stakes are still on the
counter, and she crawls into bedwith Aiden.
I am, I am. I'm taking a breath here because
the amount of anger I felt at this next this next bit of
dialogue, Carrie, you know, curls up in his arms and she's
(05:24):
lying on top of him. And oh, thank you so much.
And I appreciate you understanding.
And Aiden goes, no, no, you, youstink.
What is he you smell like get away from me.
Go take a shower. And Carrie, because he did kind
of verbally just slap her. I.
Don't think we'll ever forget this moment.
(05:45):
No, absolutely not. Because this I I feel as though
was this was just the meanest thing.
Oh yeah, he sealed his own fate,he one. 100% sealed his own fate
in that moment. So she goes to take the shower
and she goes into one of her numerous bedrooms and he comes
in. Hey, what are you doing?
What are you doing? I'm going to sleep.
(06:06):
Yeah, you said get away. Right.
You said get away, so I got away.
What are you doing? So the next morning she gets up
in another outfit that I cannot,I just can't wrap my brain
around. Oh, it's a walking outfit.
It's a walking outfit and he's in the kitchen and she's very
cold with him and he's. Are you still mad about last
(06:27):
night? No, you didn't.
Yeah, I have a right to be, she says.
And he's like, well, then I'm then I'm going to stay mad too.
Oh my God. Speaking of the nipple, which I
now am understanding. Oh, that's that's where that's
coming from. That's the reference.
The nipple, the chill. He's a baby.
He's being a child. And she's like, I'm going to go
for a walk. And he says no, no, the fight.
(06:48):
And then he's like, you know what, I'm going to go for a
walk. She's like, no, I am going for a
walk. She leaves and he goes fight,
you know, go, go for your fucking walk or whatever.
And then break something in her kitchen.
Then break something in her kitchen.
So weird. Where does Wyatt get his anger
from? I can't, I can't do like, what
the fuck did I do, Sir? Where do we start?
Where's the list start? She goes to window shop and I
(07:11):
don't know, Nordstrom or something, and Andy Cohen has a
cameo and she gets a text and he's like, hey, do you want to
meet for lunch at our favorite place at 2:00?
And she's just like, she meets him at this place.
And this is when he goes. You know, I've been thinking
about it and, you know, you're right.
I really have been. I really have been, I don't
(07:32):
know, mad at you or something. What?
Do you remember how he said it? Well, it's key that he says it
in the present. Tense.
Like I have trust issues, you know, when it comes to you
around other men or you know, something to that effect.
Right, and she says have or had and Aiden, because he's clueless
now. I paused.
He was like I don't know. I don't know what the what the
(07:54):
fuck is it different? And I pause this and I wrote in
my notes. He's dating a writer.
He should know words matter. And then I'd click play and he's
like, you know, I'm not right. They're like you.
But that is such a very clear sign of again, you really don't
get her. You really don't accept her
because I immediately just beinga writer when she said it.
(08:15):
And he was like, what's the big deal?
There's a big deal because they're two different tenses,
right? Words matter to carry because
she's a writer. And that's when she sort of
she's had it. She's just had it.
And he said something about, youknow, you got to you got to
fuck. Fucking stop blaming me.
And she's like, you have to stopfucking blaming me.
(08:36):
Like, I thought we worked this out.
And she gets up and she takes off down the street, and Aiden
follows her. And now they recreate another
famous scene where Aiden is saying, you know, whoa, whoa,
whoa. We're like Carrie, Carrie.
And Carrie's like, listen, I have done everything.
I've done things you couldn't eat.
(08:57):
I've done things that you asked me to do that even you couldn't
hold up your side of the bargain.
Right meaning. Me cheating with his wife.
Didn't sleep with anybody else. Yeah, right, right.
And she said I was 100% in one and then she 100% in and it's
just the same as the fight with big right before she goes to
Paris, you and I, nothing. It was the same kind of hand
(09:19):
gesture and the same kind of moment.
And in wait a minute, it was, you know, you are, you know, I
was 100% in what is what does that mean?
Does that mean you're not in this anymore?
And she finally says, you know, no, I need 100.
He said no. And she's just kind of shaking
her head and he's like, well, listen, I need 100%.
And she's like, so do I. And then he said, you know, I
really thought this time we weregoing to make it.
(09:42):
What? Yeah, I'm not sure what made him
think that. I don't.
I don't know where that thought came from, Sir.
Probably. Like as big as dad, That's
probably. Right, right.
So Carrie makes the decision. I'm done.
I'm out, thank God, thank Christ.
And again, remember, something else breaks.
He breaks something in her kitchen.
This is the this has been the theme all season with them.
(10:03):
Something always breaks around them.
And she's finally done. And I think everybody in the
audience was like, oh, thank God.
Because we don't we. Don't want to deal with him
anymore. And the thing I made a TikTok
about this and everyone was saying how we were talking about
how in 2005 everybody loved Aiden.
(10:24):
But The thing is 2005 Aiden in 2025 Aiden, they're the same
person. They haven't changed.
We just know more, right? Like we've had 20 years worth of
ghosting and bread crumbing and trauma bonding and narcissistic
abuse. And now we can spot all these,
these little things. And you know, when, when in the
original series, when he bought the apartment for her and bought
(10:46):
the one next door, we thought, Oh my God, he's just, he's so
committed. No, he's trying to lock her
down. He's literally trying to trap
her. Same thing.
We we never thought twice of thefact that they got back together
after she cheated and they hadn't been dating very long
before he proposed. And if it's so romantic, no,
he's trying to trap her. He's feeling insecure and this
(11:07):
is the only way he feels. He feels like, well, if I put a
ring on her then she won't do it.
Then she won't cheat. He has always, always been this
incredibly insecure man who wanted Carrie to change
everything about herself to accommodate his insecurity.
I mean, that also tracks with the scene in the original series
where, you know, they they breakup finally for, well, air quotes
(11:31):
finally, right? They break up finally for good.
And the next time Carrie sees him, she runs into him on the
street and he's got a baby, right?
And it's very clear that, you know, he's been moving at warp
speed in his new relationship. Right, right, but we can't
listen. Aiden didn't want to be alone.
Aiden wanted to get married. Aiden probably just wanted
Aiden, that guy who just wanted kids, I think.
(11:53):
And he was going to set this up and and do what he could to trap
a woman basically into giving him what he wanted and to to,
you know, to hell with her. And he's even when they're
talking to Duncan, he asked Duncan, Duncan's talking about
his ex-wife and Duncan's and Aiden says, Oh, any kids.
And he's like, oh, no, thankfully no.
And Aiden's like, well, you know, my kids are the best thing
(12:14):
that I did with my ex. I'm asking Carrie.
Carrie said what the what the how do I know?
Right. It just reeked of.
I got married to have kids. Yeah, right.
It did right. It's the best thing he did.
I I wonder what the if that's how his wife feels.
Right. Like is that or do they share
that? I don't know.
But it just felt like, go ahead.What are you going to say?
(12:36):
Struck. Me as a an exceptionally rude
thing to say about your your marriage, like, right, even
though it's over and you're sitting with your new girlfriend
and her soon to be boyfriend, you know, Kathy's not there to
defend herself. And I don't know, it just was
was really disrespectful of their 20 years together.
Extremely, very much so. And what was the what was the
(12:57):
other thing? So Aidan, he's always been an
insecure guy. He always wanted to carry to
accommodate his insecurity. And he was trying to, he was
always trying to undermine her, right?
He didn't want her to go out. Oh, what do you mean?
You're going to a club that needs a key?
I mean, that's like he's puttingit down.
He's always trying to make her feel bad, right?
He's undermining the things thatshe likes with these little
(13:18):
subtle digs to guilt her. He's always weaponized guilt
with Carrie, in my opinion. I don't know if you if you agree
with that. I mean, I would say so.
Yeah, yeah. So that's that, that's, that's
over. Relief but.
I Christ, Oh my God, what a nightmare.
(13:39):
Then we have Herbert, Herbert and Lisa, and I swear to God, if
they mess with this relationship, I'm going to be
really mad. But Herbert, he did that thing.
He did it again. He called Lisa while she was at
work to tell her he'd gained a pound.
Well, that was after he was in the kitchen yelling to no one
about there being too much junk food in the house.
(14:01):
Right, here we go again. With I have a a real easy
solution I would like to propose.
OK. All right.
If you don't want this particular food in the house,
why don't you do the grocery? Shop right, right.
You pick every single thing my guy, right?
Godspeed. It's.
But there we go again. It's another example of a man
(14:23):
expecting the woman to accommodate his limitations.
Right. Like instead of being grateful
that this odious chore is done for him right, he's complaining
about it. Right.
Yep. That's right.
You know, and the The thing is, is that to go back to 18 per
second, like we romanticize thatcharacter because that was he
(14:46):
came at a time when we were still very much about blaming
women. And, you know, people always
thought of the cheating that shebrought a lot of that on
herself, right. So we always kind of felt bad
for him in a in a sense. Yeah.
So I want, I wanted to put that out there.
I mean, I don't think she's without blame for the
dissolution of this relationship.
(15:07):
She's not. You know she's not even
blameless in this episode, right?
OK, wait a minute. How?
How so tell me? Well.
Aiden, I mean, Aiden's behavior is not great.
I don't like it personally. It's not attractive to me.
But I, I feel like what we're seeing is less, oh, the writers
trying to make Aiden a villain Now, then these two characters
(15:28):
are just fundamentally incompatible.
And I'll tell, I'll tell you what I mean.
We'll give you a couple of examples, right?
Carrie sort of bristle that sortof.
She very much bristles when after Aiden has met Duncan
outside. She's like, what were you doing
outside, girl? What?
He's allowed to go outside. OK, yes he is.
(15:52):
But she wasn't wrong. She wasn't wrong.
That he was outside hoping to catch a glimpse of Duncan.
Yes, 100. Percent.
I mean, it seems that way, but also you're telling me that
you're going to have him live there potentially.
This is your apartment, their apartment, right?
Their shared apartment. He's going to meet Duncan
(16:15):
sometime OK, And you being extremely sketchy is only making
him want to meet him more. But he had already met him.
Right, but I'm just saying like they're going to they're going
to be around each other, right, because he, Aiden is allowed to
go outside and so was Duncan. It's not like shoe.
You can't just keep him in a particular room, which what's
(16:39):
that about? You know when he puts when she
puts the cat in the closet. Yeah, you've got an entire
palatial apartment and you yeah,you're keeping your cat locked
up in the small room. First of all, I don't know what
cat would tolerate that. That cat would have destroyed
that door like 4 episodes ago. Anyway, Aiden is allowed to go
outside. That's that's first of all, OK
(17:01):
Second of all, when she comes home and sees Aiden outside with
Duncan, the stank face, you're setting a tone, right?
They're already talking again. Carrie, you are making it weird.
Aiden is being passive aggressive to us because we know
things that Duncan doesn't know.Duncan's rolling with it.
(17:23):
Duncan, you know, appears to be having a decent time.
He's just like, you know, this guy's different than me.
We're having a chat, You know what I mean?
Like Duncan. Duncan is not sweating.
It carries the one who's sittingthere like she is physically
panicking. Right.
She she OK, I see what you're saying.
She was acting like she was acting guilty.
(17:44):
Yes. She was acting guilty.
And that's because she plans to sleep with him, clearly.
That's and maybe, but don't you also think that's just Carrie?
That that guilt that Carrie has always carried in her
relationship with with Aiden, It's always been there.
(18:05):
That baggage has always, always been there.
It's always been there, but in this case it's not helping
matters that she actually is attracted to him, as we've we've
clearly seen. Yes, right.
I can agree with that. And I mean, I feel like the
whole discussion about like, well, you thought I was gonna be
monogamous for five years. Like, really?
(18:26):
That whole discussion, I think, was placed very strategically
after we saw Carrie and Duncan at the party and the writers,
you know, forced them together. Even though Duncan obviously
should be with Seema, He's not going to be.
Yeah. So obviously the writers are
going to, you know, they're going to shoehorn those two
together. But yeah, Carrie acting like an
(18:48):
absolute maniac on the patio, like you're acting guilty as
fuck. You're acting embarrassed of
Aiden, which is embarrassing to Aiden, right?
So like, like they're just feeding off of each other's
negative energy, I think, right?And then when Aiden comes to the
door and he's like, hey, it's it's dinner time.
(19:08):
You guys want dinner? She's like, bitch, what?
It's nice to be offered dinner that you don't have to make.
What the fuck? Wait, stop.
I'm sorry. You're being ridiculous right
now. I'm not.
You are. I love you.
But we both know what he was doing, all right?
That wasn't about dinner. That was about him wanting to
(19:29):
see. Is she cheating on me?
What's going on there? Hey, I'm still here.
Come on. That wasn't about dinner.
Stop. It I don't think it was a mean
spirited or invasive gesture. I think it's very reasonable for
him to be like, it's dinner, do you want dinner?
I'm sorry, Does is his phone notworking?
Hey, babe. Hey, babe.
(19:50):
Do you want me to save you some steak?
Do you want to come, Mommy, to make you a steak?
It. He didn't have to come down.
He didn't have to. He chose.
Yeah, he didn't have to, but again, like, why is it a
problem? Come on, come on.
For she's working, she's working.
Right. She's working at her own
leisurely pace, and so is he. They're they're not on a time
(20:12):
clock, they're on their own time.
I just so disagree with this. I really.
You're free to. I just think that's not helping
matters, right? To be like embarrassed about him
offering to bring down dinner. I mean, and and also like you
didn't even ask Duncan. Like you weren't even like, oh,
I don't know, do you want to stop?
Like, what if you wanted the steak?
You know what I mean? It's just so clear that Carrie
(20:34):
is like embarrassed of Aiden in that moment.
And it happened. Yes, of course.
Nobody wants. But again, you are.
You're responding to all of the things we know about their
relationship. This looks really weird to
Duncan. Duncan is seeing this as like,
yeah, it's 8:00. The man is offering dinner.
(20:54):
The woman is unhinged. I don't know.
I think he's adept enough to be able to pick up on the tension
between them, don't you think? But I think from his point of
view, care is the 1 making it weird because I mean I think
that's what's happening. OK, I'm going to agree to
disagree with you. You know, I respect and love
you, but I vehemently disagree with you on this, on this one.
(21:16):
But back to Herbert and Lisa, because Lisa, I don't know,
they're showing us very little of this relationship work, which
I'm kind of relieved with because I just don't want to see
this. I don't want to see this happen.
They're they're planting the seeds that Lisa is going to get
really, she's going to start to feel very unappreciated, which
(21:38):
she is. She's going to start to feel
like because it's one of those cases of the woman doing the
emotional labor in the relationship and she's doing
most of it and she's getting fedup and you know, she's I don't
want to see her cheat as a way of, I don't know, to feel
appreciated to I, I don't know, I just, I hate this whole thing.
Please don't break these two up,please.
(22:00):
Yeah, I don't want to see her cheat either, but mostly because
it's it's a storyline killer. Like where do you, where does it
go from there, you know? It's a relationship killer
because they're they're they're never going to get back together
if that's the case. So that happened Now let's let's
talk about the highlight for me,Miranda and Joy.
So Miranda comes, Joy goes over to Miranda's apartment and she's
(22:22):
looking for her gin. Now remember last episode,
Miranda was very tempted to takethe gin because Joy had left it
there because I don't know why, because she I guess she wanted
to have a spare or whatever. And Miranda almost drank it.
She had to throw it out because it was too tempting.
She thought she was going to be alcoholic.
And she's like, Nope, I am very much alcoholic and and I'm not
(22:43):
putting an ick on alcoholic. I'm pronouncing the word.
So Joy's looking for the gin. She wants to make herself a
drink and she's saying, I can't find my gin.
And at first, Miranda tries to blame blame the the the woman
who like manages her apartment. Yeah, and you didn't clock that
as problematic? I absolutely fucking did.
I absolutely did. Like you're blaming the help.
(23:05):
Really. Yeah.
Really. My housekeeper Russell stolen
it. Right, Miranda, you know better
than that, right? Anyway, so Joy is saying I take
I take that to me, my gin isn't here.
And Miranda's realizing she she's lying and she doesn't want
to do that. So she sits Joy down and she's
like, you know, I threw it out. And Joy looks upset.
(23:26):
And I at first, God, please don't let this go in a bad
direction. And Miranda's like, listen, I'm
not someone who drinks occasionally or just doesn't
drink. She says I'm an alcoholic and I,
I, I just, I couldn't be around it.
And I really hate to bring this very not fun thing into this
very fun thing that that we havegoing.
(23:47):
And joy's like, OK, you know, sothis is this is a test.
And at first I was like, what doyou what is she saying?
And she said she shares that, you know how she totally
understands it. You know, this is, you know, I'm
somebody who likes to have a drink when I'm, you know,
feeling uncomfortable or when whatever.
And, you know, I, she basically says I like to drink when I
(24:11):
don't like myself, which is, andyou know, she's basically saying
like, you know, I, I have, I have some, some baggage here and
I drink because it just makes mefeel better.
And she talks about, she says, you know, she talks about her
baggage. And Miranda says, I have plenty
of room, right? I have plenty of room, you know,
plenty of space. And I cried, I cried at that
(24:34):
because I thought it was becausethere was Joy saying, you know,
because you really do look at Joy and you think she kind of
has it all together. And we really haven't seen any,
any cracks in the surface exceptfor leaving the gym there.
And we see how she just decides,well, let me, I'm going to, I'm
going to let you in. I'm going to tell you something.
I'm going to make myself vulnerable.
(24:55):
Joy has alluded before to being a sad girl.
Yep. I think this is a really
interesting follow up to Mirandatrying to date Che, the stand up
comedian. Well, yes.
Who performed no comedy. But I digress.
But I digress. Yeah, to go from to go from the
(25:15):
stand up comedian to the sad girl is a really interesting
move You. Know I don't know if she's a sad
girl. Oh, it seems that way.
OK, The thing is, this is Miranda's very first, I think,
real adult relationship. Yeah, totally.
Her other relationships with Chay, with Steve, they were both
(25:36):
constantly trying to undermine her constantly.
You know, Miranda, there she is.She's working really hard.
She's, I don't know, she's trying to get partner or she
just recently gets named a partner at her firm.
She's working, work and working and she's too busy or too tired
to have sex. And what does Steve do?
Cheats on her. What is, you know, he's he has
to undermine her when she's trying to, you know, when she's
(25:58):
there, she is, she's working andhe, you know, watching
scooby-doo and he wants to get adog and she's trying to work and
he's trying. He makes her feel bad for for
being an adult, right? You know, she's paying the bills
for that place that he's stayingin while he's bartending and
he's probably barely getting by and he's making her feel bad.
(26:18):
He's kind of and I love Steve, don't get me wrong, But like
I've always said, Miranda has always needed to be mean mommy
in her relationships. And Steve, Steve was very
passive aggressive in the way that he would sort of chip away
at Miranda because they released.
They were never equals. Miranda never saw them as
equals. No, and Che was just fucking
aggressive. Aggressive, right?
(26:39):
Che gets up on stage and humiliates Miranda, and when
Miranda is upset about it, Che tries to make Miranda feel bad
for being upset. Right, Right.
You know, Che not recognizing that Miranda, this is all new to
her, right, the new career and but school and you know, her
sexuality and she's she's separated and this is she's
(27:01):
coming to terms with an awful lot.
And Che, who is very comfortablein who they are, is basic,
basically making fun of her to her face.
Yeah, she made her life the punchline.
She really did, and she was. Somehow without telling a joke
still, but yeah. Right, right.
And always was trying to make Miranda feel like she was being
needy, right? Whereas with joy, that
(27:26):
conversation the other night could have gone a different way.
It could have gone into she could have shamed Miranda,
right? Well, listen, you know, I
totally get that. But I like to be able to drink
and not feel guilty about it because she says that to
Miranda. She says, because you know, I'd
like to feel have a drink and now I'm going to feel weird or
I'm going to feel uncomfortable.And Miranda's like, no, no, no,
(27:46):
you don't have to do that. And then she says, but but no,
no, let me finish. I'm uncomfortable because she's
uncomfortable with who she is, right.
That could have gone. She could have just shamed
Miranda and she didn't. Instead, she, she was an adult
and she owned her own feelings and she communicated her
feelings and it was so refreshing, right?
(28:06):
Because it was just this such a very pure moment of
vulnerability and that like, that's the foundation of
emotional intimacy. And I feel like we've really
gotten away from that, not just in pop culture or social media,
but just in general. I think very often people open
up and or confess things. Confess is a weird word because
(28:28):
it sort of implies that you're sharing a shameful secret, but
you are sharing something, you know, private, right?
But God, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
And you, you're doing that in the moment because you feel
comfortable and it feels like the right time.
But very, yeah, very often afterthe fact, you discover that the
person you have shared this information with respond is
(28:50):
responding negatively in a variety of ways.
Right. They're passive aggressive about
it. That goes to whatever.
There's a spectrum. Right.
Would you agree that we have commodified vulnerability?
I think sometimes, yeah. I mean, I I think social media
for sure, but what you know how I feel about this women's media
started this 15 years ago with the exo Jane happened to me
(29:13):
ridiculously private, insanely private stories where this this
niche just exploited women's trauma.
I just and this and I think Thisis why I was so moved by the
scene is because it was such an authentic display or expression
of vulnerability. You know, it was done privately
and I know people like these arenot real people.
You realize that, Yes, I realizethat.
(29:35):
But I feel as though we should shine a light and praise moments
of this kind of authentic vulnerability because we just,
we've got so far away from it. In my opinion.
We've got so far away from it. It's like this weird
substitution where we we've almost sort of just started over
sharing instead. Right over sharing really has
become the the default. Right, and it's not really the
(29:58):
same thing. No, no, not at all.
So I, I want to see them. I really want to see them stay
together because it's the first relationship that Miranda's had
with someone who doesn't, who isn't sort of constantly
throwing darts at her right? And I want to see where that
goes. I, I don't want them to listen.
I don't want Joy to be perfect. She's there.
(30:19):
We're never perfect, but I do want to, I want to see these two
women. You know, here's Miranda in this
place where for her to say I'm not, you know, someone who just
drinks occasionally doesn't drink.
I'm an alcoholic. That is a big deal.
That's a big revel. Like that's a that's a very
heavy statement. She's putting it out there.
She's making it. And she knew, she knew having
(30:40):
this conversation, this could goone of two ways.
And a lot of times people would just keep that stuff, something
like that, and not reveal it because they don't want people
to see the the, they don't want people to see the, I don't know.
Well, they maybe just, yeah, don't awards to know that.
Right. They don't write that.
Yeah, I. Think that's probably true if
(31:01):
you're a recovering addict of a different sort, but I don't
know. Being alcoholic is kind of hard
to hide. I think it's got to come up
fairly early. Yeah, I agree.
But I think it had already come up.
But I think Miranda's kind of always been like, you know, I
just don't train. Or has she ever said, I wonder,
has she ever said to Joy that she doesn't drink because she's
(31:24):
an alcoholic? It seems like not until this
episode. Not until that episode.
Yeah, that was what I that was the sense I had, too.
So rooting for these two crazy kids.
I want to go back to Carrie and Aiden for a second because we
obviously see that she's going to they're going.
They're pairing her with the guydownstairs, Duncan.
Yeah. Right.
(31:44):
And it's it's another instance of Carrie, the red flags just
being waving in her face, Carrieseeing the guy for who who he is
and seeing the red flags and just plowing right through.
Because so far this guy has screamed at her, told her to
take her shoes off in the building, that she fucking owns
nothing. I disagree with him, I think he
could have done it in a nicer way.
(32:05):
He has talked negatively about his ex-wife.
And let's not forget he was a complete Dick to the garden of
special needs. Nephew, right?
Doesn't he kind of remind you ofbig?
Yes, yeah, yes. Because we can already tell this
guy is another fucking emotionalvault.
There's nothing there. There's no emotions there.
And they're going to, I think they're going to pair her with
(32:28):
him. And you know what?
I would love, I would love for her to be like, you know what, I
think I need to be on my own or,or you know, you just can't give
me what I need. You know, I need someone who's
more emotionally present. So I need to see growth in
Carrie. I do, I need to see it.
And the problem with Carrie is that Carrie has always, always
(32:51):
pursued closure in her. Every time a relationship would
crash and burn, which is every time instead of doing a post
mortem, she would immediately try to jump into another
relationship and she would use that relationship to get closure
for the previous relationship oreven.
Worse, she'd be like let's be friends X.
Right. Oh my God.
Yeah. And I say again, and I brought
(33:13):
this up with my trauma recovery background, Carrie Bradshaw is
the most classic fictional example of repetition,
compulsion, and action. Yeah, yeah.
That's why I think it's really interesting that Duncan is so
big, like you're saying, emotionally unavailable.
Are they all emotionally unavailable?
Or again, are they incompatible with Carrie?
(33:33):
I feel like we saw growth in Bigover the course of his
character. You know, he was with us for
many years. And I, I think I feel like what
we learned about Big is he struggled with Carrie for so
long because probably he needed to be dating someone much more
secure. No, no, big was wait a minute, I
want to get to this because I want to finish my first thought
(33:54):
because my ADHD brain will absolutely forget it.
But I stick a pin on this. Remind me Carrie looks
foreclosure when she should be looking for clarity because
clarity is more internal. Clarity is is about assessing a
situation objectively and identifying what you could have
done differently and what you did perfectly or or what you
(34:15):
didn't do wrong, right. It's if that's how you get your
control and your power back is through clarity, not through
closure. Closure doesn't really exist.
No it does not. You never really get it.
The, the goal really should always be clarity.
So that and we, I think we talked about this when with the
whole thing with Sam, when Sam passed and I was sort of on that
loop in the just putting myself in that situation of being sort
(34:39):
of traumatized at the loss of somebody.
And I spent a good few months trying to why am I doing this?
Why do I keep putting myself in this situation?
And I really thought that I had healed from this, this
abandonment stuff or whatever. I, I was trying to close
something when I really should have been trying to, I really
(35:00):
should have been acknowledging the clarity that I gained over
the last several years because several years ago, I don't know,
listen, this is the first time that I've ever been like, yeah,
why do I do this? And I've been doing these, these
end of life cares, whatever for years.
But this was the first time. And I was like, wait a minute,
why am I that's clarity. And that was able to, to help me
(35:21):
work through it. Trying to get closures was, was
what was re traumatizing me overand over and over again.
And Carrie just she doesn't do apost mortem.
She doesn't assess her relationships.
She doesn't want to. She uses men to help heal her
unresolved trauma. Well, she she thinks she does.
Or at least she used to think that she used to.
(35:41):
Right, 'cause she used to do some version of that in her
column. Yeah, Although I would argue
that she wasn't. She was doing it in a
performative way. She wasn't really doing the work
right cuz it always ended up with a pawn.
Yeah, but to your point about big.
Yeah, it's really easy to vilifyBig.
(36:03):
And he's not great, right? He's not great.
He's not demonstrative, certainly.
But I think, you know, I just don't think he's evil.
I think he just shouldn't have been with Carrie.
I think he needed a woman who was insecure.
I think he he needed the drama. We've talked about this Natasha,
he said it beige, she was too beige.
She was. Too, That's true.
(36:24):
Right. He needed somebody
unpredictable. We didn't.
We never got the story of his first wife, did we?
Other than. Pretty amicable, right?
Considering. He cheated on her.
Yeah, but we didn't. We didn't get the story.
No. Maybe that's the whole story,
just that he cheated on her. Maybe that's it.
Yeah, and again, we just kind oflike Bloop.
Let's ignore that red flag. Yeah.
(36:47):
So All in all, great episode. I really love, I don't know, I'd
love to talk more about emotional baggage and when you
reveal these things, because when do you when do you talk
about your trauma, right, with somebody, even if whether it's a
friend, whether it's a potentialromantic partner, it's it's so
daunting because you don't know if you're going to be judged for
(37:07):
it, right? And you don't know if it's going
to drive a wedge between someonegoing to get uncomfortable.
It's tricky. It's a very, very tricky
situation. All right, if you're not
following us on Patreon, please make sure to follow us because
we're starting up with the bonuscontent again.
So go to patreon.com/worth. The wait.
They are bonus episodes. They're not just the advice
(37:28):
letters. They're not just these, these
recaps, they're they, some of them are going to be regular
episodes. Some of them are going to be
sort of one off topics. The one that we're working on
now or the one I'm working on onnow is how to how to use dating
apps without destroying your mental health.
So that's coming up. So go to patreon.com/worth the
(37:50):
wait. You will get the advice letters,
the private posts and the bonus content.
Make sure you're following us onTikTok, Instagram and YouTube at
Worth the Wait show. Send in your questions to
hello@datologycoach.com or just go to datologycoach.com and
submit your question. And if you're looking for a
dating profile review, go to dataologycoach.com.
Book a session with me. Sarah, do you have anything?
(38:12):
Aiden Schwalzer, Fuck that guy of the of the week.
Herbert Yeah, we've got many, many Fuck That guys of the week
and it was kind of Duncan and definitely Aiden and kind of
Herbert. I'm very disappointed, but those
were our fuck that guy Palooza, we're heading into Fuck that guy
fall. So remember that blog.
Witches, Warlocks, days value your time.
Decenter men, center yourself a goodbye.
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