February 21, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode, we dive into the complex and chilling world of dating a dark empath. These individuals possess high emotional intelligence and empathy but use their deep understanding of human emotions to manipulate, control, and deceive. Unlike narcissists or psychopaths who lack empathy, dark empaths are keenly aware of others' feelings and motivations, making them masters of subtle manipulation. They can charm, guilt-trip, and influence others while maintaining a façade of kindness and compassion, making them some of the most dangerous personality types to encounter. (Looking at you, Amy Dunne.)
We also discuss Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively's awkward appearance on the SNL50 anniversary episode. Reynolds made an ill-times joke regarding his wife's current sexual harassment case. Lively filed a lawsuit against her It Ends With Us co-star and director Jason Baldoni, accusing him of sexual harassment and defamation. She alleges that Baldoni's on-set behavior made her and other women uncomfortable, citing inappropriate comments and actions. Baldoni came out swinging, counter-suing Lively and Reynolds for 400 million dollars and creating an entire website where he posted every communication between himself and Lively to support his claims that she was lying.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Dataology Coach podcast by Sarah.
Hi Kristen. Hello.
Hello. First of all, thank you for guys
for giving me the the time off. Sam's doing much better, which
I'm really I'm thrilled at, but I was very surprised.
I think I found a food that she really, really likes because
she's much more high energy, which is such a relief.
So thank you for that. But my question to you, Sarah,
(00:32):
did you watch the SNL 50? I I'm I intend to see it in its
entirety, but in the meantime I've seen some key clips.
Right, right. Circulating, yes.
Make of the rounds. One in particular, we haven't
touched on the Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni thing.
(00:55):
For me personally, it's it's so much information that I'm so
afraid that I'm going to misrepresent it.
Me too. Yeah.
I like by the time I was aware that there was a story there,
there was so much story that I was like, fuck it, forget it.
I'm I'm sitting this one out. Right.
But then. But then, yeah, on SNL, Tina Fey
(01:18):
and Amy Poehler were. I don't know if they hosted the
whole thing, but they were, theywere hosting the segment anyway.
I hope they hosted the whole thing, by the way, I think
they're great. But anyway, yeah, they were
hosting this particular segment and they they were like, oh,
hey, Ryan Reynolds is here. He stands up, right?
And they say, how are you? And he says, great, why?
(01:40):
What have you heard? And then if you're if you're
looking at Blake Lively, his wife, for just a split second, a
look crosses her face that I would characterize as abject.
Terror. Yes.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
(02:01):
And then she recomposes herself.But yeah, in in that in that
moment, it looked like she wasn't expecting that.
I'm just going to say this, I loathe both of them.
Everyone does now. They got married in a plantation
so they can both go fuck themselves.
(02:24):
He's alleged to have cheated on Scarlett Johansson with Blake
Lively. I did hear that, yeah.
And which I just, I just don't like him.
I think he's smarmy. I think he's one note.
And I, you know, I, I started liking her.
I had no issues with her other than I just didn't think she was
(02:44):
the greatest actress, but I thought she was passable.
I liked her in the town, but when the whole It Ends With Us
stuff started coming out and thethings that she was doing in
these interviews where she was really just being a bitch and
being a mean girl, obviously I started not liking her.
(03:05):
But then out came the sexual harassment charges or, or or
accusations against Justin Baldoni.
And Justin Baldoni was the director and he was, he played
her abusive husband now. The I didn't realize he directed
and was in it. When I heard about how she was
sort of making light of the thing in the domestic violence
(03:27):
theme in the story, because I have to say, I started reading
that book and I was so turned off by that opening scene that I
was like, I don't want anything to do with this book.
I didn't I didn't like the lead male.
I didn't like her and the stupidletters to Ellen DeGeneres.
I didn't care. It lost me very, very quickly.
(03:47):
But I especially didn't like hischaracter because he was so
sleazy. And the way in the opening, you
know, in this, in this first scene, they're up and they meet
up on this rooftop. And I mean, he basically comes
out and says that, you know, I, I like, I want to fuck you.
And there's nothing appealing about that.
There's nothing sexy about it itbut it, I think it probably
(04:12):
really told you who this guy wasthat he, that there was just
something about him. I think you were supposed to be,
I think you weren't supposed to like this guy.
You might you might have found him charismatic, but there was
supposed to be something that was off putting enough that it
made it difficult to fully commit to liking this person.
Kind of like Sarsgaard and Big Little Lies.
(04:33):
Yes, yes, exactly. Exactly.
That was well done. Except that's why he won the MB
four. He he was so amazing.
So, so when the they started to do the press tour and the
rumbling started because they were saying why isn't he on the
press tour? Why isn't he doing these
(04:54):
interviews? Yeah.
So people started talking and, and this is what I mean about
the Internet. They don't miss a trick, right?
They don't miss anything. No, but the public is getting
more media savvy. Very much so.
Not media literate as much, but that's a different thing.
So then everything started to come out and when she began, all
(05:15):
the things started coming out about her on press tours and,
and sort of the mean girl stuff.And then the sexual harassment
accusations against Baldoni by Blake Lively and you.
I, I, I think for the most part at that point everybody was Team
Blake because believe women. We just believe this.
(05:36):
Plus, there is something about Baldoni.
Baldoni as one of those guys, the male feminist, the guy who
panders to women. I know that.
Yeah, I was not a fan. I was not a fan of this guy.
And so when all this stuff came out, I, I immediately thought,
(05:56):
Yep, I believe that because malefeminists are mostly just wolves
in sheep clothing, sheep's clothing.
And then he was like, OK, bet you want to make these
accusations. He puts up an entire website of
all of the text message. Oh, the lawyer.
The they put up an entire website with all of the text
(06:20):
messages. I love a petty bitch.
I do too. This was so deliciously petty,
but also he sued her. I did hear that, yeah.
And he also sued the New York Times.
OK, because they ran the story. Because they ran the story.
OK, So when I see that I'm goingto be a little bit more OK, now
(06:44):
I want to hear this guy's story.Whereas typically I don't care.
And as he started publishing things and publishing the
messages and you really learned what an absolute asshole she is
and what she was doing to him. And it really started to make it
seem, and I obviously, I can't say for sure, but it really
(07:06):
started to make it seem like shewas manipulating text and
manipulating content to make it look like he was sexually,
sexually harassing her. And so when I saw this clip,
this was such an obvious PR stunt of you need to get out
there, you need to get your faceout there.
(07:26):
You shouldn't be hiding, which Iget, I think it was very ill
timed. I don't think this was the place
to do it. It's one thing to show up to a
red carpet and have your picturetaken, but to make light of it,
so you're making light of sexualharassment charges.
You're the whole situation is just icky and I don't I don't
(07:47):
think anybody's really coming out looking great here.
You know, you know, it's interesting that you say that
because I again have not, you know, I've not been following
this from the beginning, but because of the SNL incident.
Incident it's. It's created a lot more Tik Toks
(08:10):
in particular, people providing me some back story whether I
wanted it or not, right? It's interesting to me to see
the narrative that is emerging and it that people are comparing
Blake Lively to Amber Heard in particular.
But isn't that interesting because as you know, Kristen, I
(08:32):
am an Amber Heard apologist and I stand by it apology.
So I mean, that's that to me is like a, a weird comparison
because Amber Heard, I thought, you know, I thought we had sort
of like revised our view of her to be a a bit more sympathetic.
(08:54):
Whereas Blake Lively, you know, women in particular are calling
her a snake. They're accusing her of like,
trying to set Justin Baldoni up.But how much?
But how much did? She did right right.
But here's the kicker. Here's what really gets me.
And I fucking hate this so much coming from other women.
God damn it. But but women in particular are
(09:17):
speculating. Well, I think she fell for him
and he didn't go for her. So then she was acting out of
scorn, and she did this whole. It's just so, it's so reductive.
It's so reductive. I happen to think Ryan Reynolds
was the main problem. Who knows, He's definitely not
(09:37):
helping. He's not he, I, I do not like
him. I don't care.
I think he is Deadpool every daythat that is it's he's just a
one note. He's just a one trick.
Very one note, very one note. And I don't like it.
And I don't care for that note. I don't care for that pony.
(09:58):
So I think he's probably more toblame for a lot of this.
I think he might have felt threatened, but yes, this whole
oh, I think she liked him and hedidn't, but that's it's
reductive. Well, and it's like it's insane
you aren't there. Right, right.
But you go right to that. Right.
(10:21):
And those are the pickmies and those are the people, the the
fans of people like Justin Baldoni, men like Justin
Baldoni. I'm sorry you're all fucking
pickmies. Because I think most women see
through that bullshit. We don't trust it.
We just don't trust it. Yeah, nor should we, for good
reason. Yeah, some other I, I think this
(10:46):
is interesting, Some other hot takes around this whole
situation are actually more to do with Taylor Swift.
I don't know if you know this Kristen, but Blake Langley and
Taylor Swift for a time were BFFS.
Right. And so now people are saying,
you know, well, Taylor Swift, like she's she's really staying
(11:07):
out of it, right. And like how awkward and
embarrassing. Like that's your best friend and
she's not coming to your aid. Like people so again, are saying
like, well, Taylor Swift is not she's not saying anything in
support of like lively. People are like, you know, she's
probably going to drop her like a hot potato because she doesn't
want the drama and she doesn't believe like either.
(11:29):
I don't know. I mean, I'm I'm not going to go
through all the text messages. It certainly seems like things
are not going according to plan.For.
For anyone, really, Justin Baldoni probably thought he was
just going to be in a movie, youknow?
Right, right. He's already lost jobs.
(11:53):
Yeah, Yeah, that's true. He's already lost jobs because
of this, I think. But but who's probably going to
come out looking the worst here?Blake Lively.
Of course. Blake live, of course.
Of course, another thing to me that I I think is actually like
the interesting part of this whole event is, is like you
(12:13):
said, Blake Lively is going to come out looking the worst.
We all could've called that without any of this business
about text message receipts like, right?
Like regardless. Right.
We all knew that the woman is going to come out looking the
worst here, right? It's going to hurt her career
the most. We all knew except I guess Blake
(12:35):
Lively and I. And I just thought, you know, as
I was like contemplating this, this whole incident, like, tell
me you don't have your finger onthe pulse without telling me
you're you're completely out of touch because like, it's the new
era, baby me too is done and gone.
(12:56):
You know God because I keep hearing rumblings of people
thinking Matt Lauer should come back.
Oh, I haven't heard that, but. Yeah, I've I've been hearing
that didn't. He have a fucking trap door in
his office. They here's the thing, they all
did at all. They all did.
And I think it had something to do.
(13:17):
It was security. I think it had something to do
with security. It wasn't just him.
And I really hate when stories like that come out and we don't
get context because it it, it doesn't it, it doesn't help, it
doesn't, it doesn't help the cause.
But I agree, the me too movementreally does seem to be.
(13:37):
Oh, we don't. We don't believe women anymore.
Do you think that's true? I mean, you and I might, right?
And like, you know, on an individual basis, like women
might. But like, we're just, we just
got a whole new tone in this country since November, you
(13:59):
know, the vibe has really shifted.
Yeah. It's the broligarchy.
I don't like it either, but herewe are.
Yes, and that's why I'm so frustrated at this whole lively
Baldoni thing, because it doesn't just affect her, right?
It affects all of us. If she, if, she if, if, if.
(14:22):
I want to be clear, if she made these accusations up to position
herself as a victim, I'm going to be pissed.
Because this actually is so rare, right?
Like it's so fucking rare that women make this shit up, but
it's the first thing you hear from men who are assholes.
(14:43):
Right, nice little Segway. You sent me an article about
dark empaths and I was fascinated it.
Did. Yeah, it did.
It did. So the Guardian had an article
titled Narcissists only more devious, The truth about dark
empaths and apparently dark empath talk has been trending.
(15:08):
I hadn't seen any of these videos on TikTok, had you?
Before this article, had you? No, OK.
I'm sure I'm going to once we finish recording this.
Yeah, for sure. But well, OK, so a dark empath
is apparently the most dangerouspersonality.
(15:30):
They're like narcissists, only more devious.
First identified in 2021 in a study published in the Journal
of Personality and Individual Differences, Researchers define
it as a novel psychological construct concerning individuals
who have a high degree of empathy alongside what is known
as dark traits. How this plays out in practices.
(15:52):
Someone who appears to be caringand sensitive, but who is
actually using those skills to further their own agenda.
Boy, we did have a good Segway, didn't we?
Yes, we did. Look at a chew, Blake Lively.
I don't actually. I'm not actually calling her a
dark empath, but she does seem like an asshole.
(16:13):
Which actually before we get back into the stark empath
thing, you said you you were looking at like some of her past
appearances. Did you see the one where she
was on some panel for Gossip Girl and she cracked a joke
about Leighton Meester being born in jail?
Yes. God damn like just talk about
toad def. Right.
(16:34):
Anyway, not a. Nice person she's.
Not nice. Anyway, how is it possible to
manufacture empathy? Can't we as humans detect when
that's being done? Turns out there's more than one
type of empathy. There's the deeply caring type
that most of us understand, which is called affective
(16:55):
empathy. And that's the real thing.
This is the degree to which I feel what you are feeling.
So, for example, when you feel sad, that makes me feel sad.
But there's another type known as cognitive empathy.
And in that case, the script goes, I know what you're
thinking, I understand your mental state, but I really don't
(17:15):
care about it. And this information is
important to the dark empath because if they want to predict
your behavior, they need to understand what you're thinking
in order to try to control you. It's this manipulation by
stealth that can feel so unnerving if you're on the
receiving end of it. Then we have an anecdote from
(17:36):
somebody about a a boss, which is unsurprising, right?
Call calls to mind that infamousstudy about like 90% of CE OS or
psychopaths. Or actually, it might be higher,
but I don't have it in front of me, so don't don't at me.
OK, so we got an anecdote about a boss.
(17:57):
Unfortunately, dark empaths are extremely good at getting their
prey to drop their defenses because they intellectually
assemble an understanding of theother person's weaknesses and
where their loyalties will lie and what their insecurities are.
They crave this knowledge because then they can use it to
manipulate. So here's an example of a
(18:17):
romantic relationship. Say the dark empath knows that
their wife derives a lot of pride from their workplace
achievements and how she's viewed professionally.
She gets an amazing job. This means the dark empath will
feel at risk of potentially losing her to other people, and
he will then lose the spotlight and potentially the right to
make all of the decisions. Her success at work is making
(18:40):
her feel special and he's losinghis power over her.
So in this scenario, he would typically scheme to bring her
down. He might say things like, I know
how important it is for you to show up to work looking sorry to
show up for work looking the part.
But when you dress like that, you look like a mutton dressed
as lamb. It's I don't know who would say
(19:03):
that. OK, the guardian.
I'm very surprised because I thought you would know better.
So like their close relative, the narcissist, a dark empath is
territorial, which according to psychologists is common for such
types to create exclusion from friends, family and Co workers.
(19:26):
Isolation means you're more likely to doubt yourself and the
dark empath can make you rethinkand distort reality.
So it's another form of gaslighting, right?
One reason there's so much interest in these types of
people is because they present us with a puzzle, good and evil,
wrapped in the same package. At the most diabolical level,
(19:46):
the Dark Empath will show up in the form of a Jimmy Savile type,
which again, this is from the Guardian.
Jimmy Savile for those who don'tknow, was an an English TV host
for like 100 years, just just a super long time before
eventually he was discovered to have have been a pedophile the
(20:08):
whole time. At the end of his life, of
course. So anyway, the Jimmy Savile
type, his skill in winning people's trust, posing as this
charitable benefactor, allowed him to gain access to vulnerable
young girls. But that's an extreme example.
What's most striking about the recent research is that it
reveals how prevalent the phenomena is.
(20:31):
We identified it as a trait combination displayed by 19% of
the 1000 people we surveyed. So almost one in five of us have
this personality type. But traits exist on a continuum,
so it's not about everyone having a personality disorder.
(20:52):
So let's see. Then they talk about the Dark
Triad. Oh yeah, I was talking about
that this morning with people. Do you want to try man about the
Dark Triad? The dark triad is we studied
this when I was getting my certification, the IT is
psychopathy, narcissism and Machiavellianism.
(21:13):
And I think a really great example, obviously, would be
Trump. Sure.
Right where it's someone who's who's deeply manipulative with
no sense of remorse. But also impulsive.
Yes, yes, and the the here's thedifference.
(21:34):
The difference between a narcissist and a dark empath is
that a dark empath can read how you're feeling and then exploit
that to their benefit. Whereas a narcissist is to is to
self evolved basically to to care what you're feeling.
Yeah, like they don't even really consider it.
(21:55):
Right, and This is why they say the dark empath is is darker is
scarier because they can get in your head and figure out it.
Let's put it this way. It's me, but bad.
It's somebody who can not just tell how you're feeling, but no,
(22:16):
no, but can tell what's what's motivating you, like why you're
doing something. You know why, why are you trying
to turn this person against me? Because you're threatened,
because you can't handle someonestanding up to you.
That's what that's what I would say, like I can do.
Whereas in a dark empath, we'll take that and then use it to
(22:41):
manipulate whoever their target is, whoever their victim is, and
manipulate them in in a bad way and make them vulnerable and
isolate them and break them down.
Whereas a narcissist, they, theydo that to some degree, but they
don't have the the ability to read to, to read and pick up on
(23:05):
how somebody's feeling and what motivates somebody and what
their vulnerabilities are. So actually the work example is
is illustrative. If we maybe we should backtrack.
If you don't mind, I'll share this work example that the
Guardian includes. So Yasmin works in event in
event management. It's a very social vibe and
(23:26):
Elaine, the new boss, like to treat us to a Friday afternoon
drinks and trolley akaa few drinks being passed around
between desks. The evening would often and in
the pub and soon her boss started to share confidences
about her personal life, prompting Yasmin to reveal her
struggles trying to get pregnant.
It felt great that my boss was also becoming a good friend, she
(23:49):
said, and mentor and it made my office life enjoyable.
But things started to go wrong when Elaine confided about how
stress was taking its toll on her health.
She frequently asked Yasmin to take on extra tasks.
I was happy to help her, knowingwhat pressure she was under for
management, and she also hinted that a promotion was coming up
for me. But then she embarked on a not
(24:09):
so subtle campaign to try to putme off the idea of starting a
family. She'd tell me that at 35, I
still had loads of time and didn't I want to prioritize my
career and my future earnings first.
It's only with hindsight that I realized what an outrageous
boundary overstep that was. At the time, I genuinely thought
she was looking out for me. A few months later, Jasmine or
(24:30):
Yasmine discovered that she was pregnant.
She told Elaine and wasn't expecting such an extreme
reaction. She says she went ballistic and
started screaming. How could you do this to me
after all I've done to you, Donefor you?
Oh. God, all right, A perfect
example of both a dark empath and the dark triad.
(24:51):
Amy Dunn, Gone Girl, right? That Machiavellianism, that plan
that she put together to to destroy her husband.
Yeah, because she knows how he'dbe feeling, but also how
everyone observing. Right, Right.
She understood optics, right? She was a narcissist.
She could read people very well.I think her parents, weren't
(25:14):
they psyched? What was it?
The mother was like a children'sbook author or something.
I think they were both. Psychologists.
Were they both psychologists? As I recall, but at least one
was. Right.
So she was able to read people, she was able to, she was able to
plot. I mean that her plan really was
pretty, pretty brilliant. Had a couple of things not gone
(25:36):
wrong. But she is a great example of
somebody who, like she knew Nickwas just so weak.
She knew that she knew how insecure he was.
She knew that he felt like, you know, he was a writer and he he
(25:56):
hadn't really succeeded. She knew she really, really knew
how to attack his ego. I'm.
So glad you mentioned Amy Dunn because, well, I, I just always
like talking about Amy Dunn. I.
Love Amy Dunn is really one of the best women characters.
(26:18):
Fictional, Yeah. Oh, for sure.
Also, you know, not not really the villain, but also like,
totally the villain, right. I guess like the villain, but
I'm not mad at her. Right, right.
Exactly. We believe in women's rights and
wrongs, Sarah. Which which leads me to.
(26:40):
Listen. But we don't judge, right?
Yeah, yeah. Which leads me to my my next
question, which is like, did youalso panic a little bit when you
were reading this? At what part?
Well, were were you not also thinking like, Oh my God, is
this me? There were times reading this
(27:04):
where I'm thinking, I really want her to get away with this.
Oh my God, what's wrong with me?Oh no, I I mean the Dark Empath
article were were you also reading it?
Panicking a little bit thinking Oh no, this is describing me.
No, OK. No, I'm a little concerned
though that you might have been,but no, because like I said, I
(27:25):
don't. Well, OK, wait a minute.
I did just have someone call me manipulative and I thought
that's I don't, I don't think I'm manipulative at all.
But I asked some people, what doyou think?
Do you think it am I manipulative?
And they say it's not that you're manipulative, it's that
you just state your opinion about somebody.
(27:46):
And because people, because you have credibility and because
people trust you and think you're smart, they believe you
without. And that's that's very dangerous
because I don't want to be just because I have an opinion.
I don't want people to just believe me because it's me.
And So what is it? With great power comes great
(28:09):
responsibility, Sarah. Yeah, it's true.
But but. Unless you're the president.
Unless you're the president. So I guess I'm not.
I'm not really afraid of it, ButI did recognize things like, oh,
I know how to. I can I can figure out what your
vulnerability is and I can use it against you.
OK, so that's interesting because for me there was a
(28:30):
different like, oh, it's I guessso I guess to to sum up, it
sounds like you're saying like you read this and you were like,
OK, two out of three. Ergo, I'm not a dark empath.
Two out of three. Like 2 out of three traits but
not a dark empath Like 2 out of three were applicable maybe?
(28:53):
Well, what too? Which I don't know.
I don't know which, but I mean it sounds like you're saying no
to manipulation. Well, like, don't we all
manipulate though? Don't you think we're all
manipulative? Well, you want something.
OK, glad you asked, because you.Think all right.
As I was reading this, panickinga little bit because I was like,
(29:14):
Oh no, it may. It may.
I've, I, you know, in the end I determined like, Oh no, like
this probably isn't me because Idon't manipulate people.
I don't, I don't think. Yeah, I don't.
Again, I don't think it's manipulation.
I I I think I'm very good at presenting an argument.
(29:36):
Yeah. Right there, there's a
difference, I think. And it's not to do something
bad, right? I'm not.
I'm not manipulating people to hurt them.
Mm hmm but but like is that enough to not make you a darker
path if you if you are admittingto manipulating mm hmm.
(30:01):
But like you said, I don't thinkI don't, I don't think I
manipulate people. I I think I just know how to
make a good argument. OK, Is that is that
manipulation? I don't know, listen, the, the
part that I really identified with was not feeling empathy.
And, and please let me tell you what I mean when it, when it
(30:23):
described like being able to empathize on a superficial
level, wherein you, you know, you can read facial expressions,
you understand how people are feeling intellectually.
It's just that, it's just that like what you eat, is it going
(30:43):
to make me shit, you know, if you're having a bad idea, OK, or
a bad day, I mean. OK.
I did a little research and I looked up on Chatty PT earlier
of course. And that's a great segue to our
next topic. And the sort of traits of a dark
empath is emotional manipulation, conditional
(31:04):
empathy, charm and charisma, passive aggressive behavior,
Machiavellian tendencies. And here's here's what I think
separates us from actual dark empath.
Dark empaths, they have a sadistic streak.
Dark empaths derive pleasure from others discomfort or
misfortune, even if they don't show it outwardly.
(31:27):
Yeah, OK. And sadism is different from
schadenfreude, right? Yes.
I, I want to, I want to clarify that as well, 'cause like we, we
can all enjoy TikTok videos of people who voted for Trump
crying 'cause they got laid off.Right.
Sure can. We can all enjoy those, but we
didn't. We didn't 'cause that so.
(31:48):
Right. Can't be dark empaths, right?
OK. I just, you know, it got me.
I have to admit it got me a little a little concerned that I
might be a psychopath because I was like, am I really supposed
to be like feeling what people feel?
Because I don't, I really don't.I just feel what I feel.
(32:12):
We might happen to feel the samething, but again, like if you're
having a bad day, I might console you, but like, I'm going
to, I'm going to go on having a fine day, right?
I definitely have those feelingssometimes of very being very
numb. I was thinking that with Luna
the other day because I was thinking, why isn't she?
(32:33):
I want her to be more affectionate, but also I just
didn't feel. I don't feel for her.
What I felt for Luca, what I felt for Moon.
Maybe that's something that's coming or maybe that's just my
own inability. Maybe I'm just not capable of
it. I don't know.
But it bothers me that I don't feel that there are certain
things where I don't have any feelings.
(32:56):
And I, and I think a lot of it has to do with just trauma.
I really do. I think trauma just numbs.
Us well for sure it. Desensitizes us and but but put
a video on. Put in a video on my fyp of a
dog being put down and I am on the floor.
Forget it, my day is done. Yeah.
(33:17):
So I have the capability to feelcertain things, but I I don't
know that I feel them all the time for all people or people in
general. I.
Think, you know, Luna is still new to you.
So obviously your, your feelings, I think will deepen
with the but I also think it's OK if they're not the same.
(33:38):
Like I do believe in the notion of like soul pets, right?
I I really do. I mean, right, you know, Sam is
a soul pet for me. That's what's so weird.
Sam is a soul pet for me. But in that case, we're we're
getting off on a tangent with with when there's a history of
trauma, it's very difficult to feel anything after certain
(33:59):
points. Sure, right.
I. It's like a self preservation.
It is. I think it is a self
preservation. I do.
I do think that. But that doesn't mean we're
incapable of it. That doesn't mean that we can't
be kind and compassionate. Even if we don't feel it, we
can. We can mask it.
Doesn't mean we're evil. Right, right, right.
(34:20):
It is. It really is the sadism and the
extreme to which we that we're narcissistic or the OR or that
we're self involved. Right.
Yeah. And sadism.
Yeah, it has. It has a degree of
intentionality. I did.
Right, very much so. Which is.
Which is the difference between that and, as I said,
schadenfreude. So I guess in conclusion, don't
(34:42):
panic if you if you have one or two or even 3 of the dark triad
traits as long as you aren't sadistic.
I, I do, you know, emotional manipulation.
I, I, I think we all do that. I really, I really do.
I don't think we all do that. You don't.
(35:02):
You don't think we all do that? No, at least not intentionally.
OK, not intentionally, all right?
Conditional empathy. I definitely do that.
Sure. Charm and charisma.
Sure. I'm.
I'm a fucking delight. What about you passive
aggressive behavior? I don't think.
(35:23):
I think we're aggressive, aggressive.
Sure. OK, the next one.
Machiavellian tendencies. They believe that the ends
justify the means and use their social skills and empathy as
tools to achieve personal goals.They may manipulate social
dynamics, pit people against each other, or use flattery
(35:43):
strategically. Yeah, I know somebody like this.
I've seen this in action. And that's that's not you
either. Part of it is I think, I mean,
but again, like I, I feel like part of this just describes
everybody like like insincere pleasantries, like we all do
that the the part I don't do is pitting people against each
(36:07):
other. Correct, correct.
But you know why I don't do that?
Because I know it'll backfire, not because it's wrong.
Exactly. Well, OK, Fairpoint.
If I could, if I could get away with it, obviously I'd be doing
that you. Would All right, so in
conclusion, we may or may not bedark empaths, all right, Well,
(36:32):
we're not. Sadistic.
But we're not sadistic. So that's the we're going to
cling to that one as best we can.
I want to hear if you guys have ever dealt with a dark empath or
somebody who falls under the, the, the dark triad category.
Yeah. Is there anybody in your life
that you've that you've had to deal with in that?
(36:53):
Particular is there anybody thatyou have identified as like,
yeah, strong for the Dark Triad but like that you don't consider
a threat like I'm I'm. Dealing with this now with
somebody with, with a woman in the true crime community.
I'm dealing with this definitely.
She's one of those pitting people against each other and
(37:14):
manipulating situations. And yeah.
It seems like there's a lot of that in the true crime
community. There really is because you're
dealing with an awful lot of fucking psychopaths and
narcissists. And you know, The thing is, is
that you what what it comes downto is you're dealing with a lot
of people who have a lot of trauma and some of it is healed
and some of it isn't. And when the unhealed and the
(37:35):
healed are in the same dynamic or in the same?
Group it can create. A lot of chaos.
Like lions and gazelles. Lions and and gazelles.
Exactly. All right, Sarah, we know how
this is going to go. This is we know how this is
going to go. If you want, we have a change of
format coming up in March where we are going to be starting a
(37:58):
series and we've come up with a title.
And I need to thank Sheila for this title because it was so
good. And I it's like Sarah said, I
can't believe we didn't come up with any weight puns.
Actually embarrassing for us. Right.
And the, this the segment the series is going to be called and
it's a, it's about our GLP journeys and what brought us
there, what our experiences and just a lot of things not just
(38:22):
around weight, but around, you know, Sarah, Sarah is, has also
started. And.
So we have sort of a perimenopause view and A and a
post menopause view, which I think is something we don't talk
about a lot. And we're calling it Worth the
wait, which I love. This is what we're calling the
(38:44):
series. So that starts in March and
that's going to start the first week in March and it's going to
be bi weekly. And then in the like in the
weeks between, we'll be dating advice episodes.
We're also going to be changing the tiers on Patreon.
(39:05):
They're not going to be that different.
You're still going to be gettinga lot of the same benefits.
We're but we're just going to besort of retooling everything.
But that starts in March. And if you know the GOP is going
to be for paid subscribers only,the dating advice.
We're. Going to get pretty personal
there. The dating advice posts are
going to be free and we will do bonus episodes as well, so that
(39:30):
for people who might want to subscribe to a tier that
includes the bonus dating content.
So you can go to patreon.com/datology Coach and
subscribe. I'm excited.
We've already started recording and talking and discussing our
experiences because we've both already started and I'm excited
(39:51):
to share it with you. I want to hear your stories as
well. I really want to make this more
of a sort of a community thing. So go to patreon.com/datology
Coach to subscribe. Follow us on Instagram at
Datology pod, follow me on Instagram at the Christendom
THECHRISTANM, follow me on TikTok at datology coach and my
(40:11):
character analysis same on YouTube and send your letters.
If you have letters to hello@datologycoach.com or go to
datologycoach.com and submit your letter.
Sarah, what you got? Nothing.
That's that's it. That's it, That's all you got.
That's it, yeah. Woo.
(40:32):
No notes, no notes. OK, Bog witches, bog vase, bog
warlocks. Value your time, decenter men,
and center yourself. Goodbye.
Bye.
Dataology Coach podcast by Sarah.
Hi Kristen. Hello.
Hello. First of all, thank you for guys
for giving me the the time off. Sam's doing much better, which
I'm really I'm thrilled at, but I was very surprised.
I think I found a food that she really, really likes because
she's much more high energy, which is such a relief.
So thank you for that. But my question to you, Sarah,
(00:32):
did you watch the SNL 50? I I'm I intend to see it in its
entirety, but in the meantime I've seen some key clips.
Right, right. Circulating, yes.
Make of the rounds. One in particular, we haven't
touched on the Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni thing.
(00:55):
For me personally, it's it's so much information that I'm so
afraid that I'm going to misrepresent it.
Me too. Yeah.
I like by the time I was aware that there was a story there,
there was so much story that I was like, fuck it, forget it.
I'm I'm sitting this one out. Right.
But then. But then, yeah, on SNL, Tina Fey
(01:18):
and Amy Poehler were. I don't know if they hosted the
whole thing, but they were, theywere hosting the segment anyway.
I hope they hosted the whole thing, by the way, I think
they're great. But anyway, yeah, they were
hosting this particular segment and they they were like, oh,
hey, Ryan Reynolds is here. He stands up, right?
And they say, how are you? And he says, great, why?
(01:40):
What have you heard? And then if you're if you're
looking at Blake Lively, his wife, for just a split second, a
look crosses her face that I would characterize as abject.
Terror. Yes.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
(02:01):
And then she recomposes herself.But yeah, in in that in that
moment, it looked like she wasn't expecting that.
I'm just going to say this, I loathe both of them.
Everyone does now. They got married in a plantation
so they can both go fuck themselves.
(02:24):
He's alleged to have cheated on Scarlett Johansson with Blake
Lively. I did hear that, yeah.
And which I just, I just don't like him.
I think he's smarmy. I think he's one note.
And I, you know, I, I started liking her.
I had no issues with her other than I just didn't think she was
(02:44):
the greatest actress, but I thought she was passable.
I liked her in the town, but when the whole It Ends With Us
stuff started coming out and thethings that she was doing in
these interviews where she was really just being a bitch and
being a mean girl, obviously I started not liking her.
(03:05):
But then out came the sexual harassment charges or, or or
accusations against Justin Baldoni.
And Justin Baldoni was the director and he was, he played
her abusive husband now. The I didn't realize he directed
and was in it. When I heard about how she was
sort of making light of the thing in the domestic violence
(03:27):
theme in the story, because I have to say, I started reading
that book and I was so turned off by that opening scene that I
was like, I don't want anything to do with this book.
I didn't I didn't like the lead male.
I didn't like her and the stupidletters to Ellen DeGeneres.
I didn't care. It lost me very, very quickly.
(03:47):
But I especially didn't like hischaracter because he was so
sleazy. And the way in the opening, you
know, in this, in this first scene, they're up and they meet
up on this rooftop. And I mean, he basically comes
out and says that, you know, I, I like, I want to fuck you.
And there's nothing appealing about that.
There's nothing sexy about it itbut it, I think it probably
(04:12):
really told you who this guy wasthat he, that there was just
something about him. I think you were supposed to be,
I think you weren't supposed to like this guy.
You might you might have found him charismatic, but there was
supposed to be something that was off putting enough that it
made it difficult to fully commit to liking this person.
Kind of like Sarsgaard and Big Little Lies.
(04:33):
Yes, yes, exactly. Exactly.
That was well done. Except that's why he won the MB
four. He he was so amazing.
So, so when the they started to do the press tour and the
rumbling started because they were saying why isn't he on the
press tour? Why isn't he doing these
(04:54):
interviews? Yeah.
So people started talking and, and this is what I mean about
the Internet. They don't miss a trick, right?
They don't miss anything. No, but the public is getting
more media savvy. Very much so.
Not media literate as much, but that's a different thing.
So then everything started to come out and when she began, all
(05:15):
the things started coming out about her on press tours and,
and sort of the mean girl stuff.And then the sexual harassment
accusations against Baldoni by Blake Lively and you.
I, I, I think for the most part at that point everybody was Team
Blake because believe women. We just believe this.
(05:36):
Plus, there is something about Baldoni.
Baldoni as one of those guys, the male feminist, the guy who
panders to women. I know that.
Yeah, I was not a fan. I was not a fan of this guy.
And so when all this stuff came out, I, I immediately thought,
(05:56):
Yep, I believe that because malefeminists are mostly just wolves
in sheep clothing, sheep's clothing.
And then he was like, OK, bet you want to make these
accusations. He puts up an entire website of
all of the text message. Oh, the lawyer.
The they put up an entire website with all of the text
(06:20):
messages. I love a petty bitch.
I do too. This was so deliciously petty,
but also he sued her. I did hear that, yeah.
And he also sued the New York Times.
OK, because they ran the story. Because they ran the story.
OK, So when I see that I'm goingto be a little bit more OK, now
(06:44):
I want to hear this guy's story.Whereas typically I don't care.
And as he started publishing things and publishing the
messages and you really learned what an absolute asshole she is
and what she was doing to him. And it really started to make it
seem, and I obviously, I can't say for sure, but it really
(07:06):
started to make it seem like shewas manipulating text and
manipulating content to make it look like he was sexually,
sexually harassing her. And so when I saw this clip,
this was such an obvious PR stunt of you need to get out
there, you need to get your faceout there.
(07:26):
You shouldn't be hiding, which Iget, I think it was very ill
timed. I don't think this was the place
to do it. It's one thing to show up to a
red carpet and have your picturetaken, but to make light of it,
so you're making light of sexualharassment charges.
You're the whole situation is just icky and I don't I don't
(07:47):
think anybody's really coming out looking great here.
You know, you know, it's interesting that you say that
because I again have not, you know, I've not been following
this from the beginning, but because of the SNL incident.
Incident it's. It's created a lot more Tik Toks
(08:10):
in particular, people providing me some back story whether I
wanted it or not, right? It's interesting to me to see
the narrative that is emerging and it that people are comparing
Blake Lively to Amber Heard in particular.
But isn't that interesting because as you know, Kristen, I
(08:32):
am an Amber Heard apologist and I stand by it apology.
So I mean, that's that to me is like a, a weird comparison
because Amber Heard, I thought, you know, I thought we had sort
of like revised our view of her to be a a bit more sympathetic.
(08:54):
Whereas Blake Lively, you know, women in particular are calling
her a snake. They're accusing her of like,
trying to set Justin Baldoni up.But how much?
But how much did? She did right right.
But here's the kicker. Here's what really gets me.
And I fucking hate this so much coming from other women.
God damn it. But but women in particular are
(09:17):
speculating. Well, I think she fell for him
and he didn't go for her. So then she was acting out of
scorn, and she did this whole. It's just so, it's so reductive.
It's so reductive. I happen to think Ryan Reynolds
was the main problem. Who knows, He's definitely not
(09:37):
helping. He's not he, I, I do not like
him. I don't care.
I think he is Deadpool every daythat that is it's he's just a
one note. He's just a one trick.
Very one note, very one note. And I don't like it.
And I don't care for that note. I don't care for that pony.
(09:58):
So I think he's probably more toblame for a lot of this.
I think he might have felt threatened, but yes, this whole
oh, I think she liked him and hedidn't, but that's it's
reductive. Well, and it's like it's insane
you aren't there. Right, right.
But you go right to that. Right.
(10:21):
And those are the pickmies and those are the people, the the
fans of people like Justin Baldoni, men like Justin
Baldoni. I'm sorry you're all fucking
pickmies. Because I think most women see
through that bullshit. We don't trust it.
We just don't trust it. Yeah, nor should we, for good
reason. Yeah, some other I, I think this
(10:46):
is interesting, Some other hot takes around this whole
situation are actually more to do with Taylor Swift.
I don't know if you know this Kristen, but Blake Langley and
Taylor Swift for a time were BFFS.
Right. And so now people are saying,
you know, well, Taylor Swift, like she's she's really staying
(11:07):
out of it, right. And like how awkward and
embarrassing. Like that's your best friend and
she's not coming to your aid. Like people so again, are saying
like, well, Taylor Swift is not she's not saying anything in
support of like lively. People are like, you know, she's
probably going to drop her like a hot potato because she doesn't
want the drama and she doesn't believe like either.
(11:29):
I don't know. I mean, I'm I'm not going to go
through all the text messages. It certainly seems like things
are not going according to plan.For.
For anyone, really, Justin Baldoni probably thought he was
just going to be in a movie, youknow?
Right, right. He's already lost jobs.
(11:53):
Yeah, Yeah, that's true. He's already lost jobs because
of this, I think. But but who's probably going to
come out looking the worst here?Blake Lively.
Of course. Blake live, of course.
Of course, another thing to me that I I think is actually like
the interesting part of this whole event is, is like you
(12:13):
said, Blake Lively is going to come out looking the worst.
We all could've called that without any of this business
about text message receipts like, right?
Like regardless. Right.
We all knew that the woman is going to come out looking the
worst here, right? It's going to hurt her career
the most. We all knew except I guess Blake
(12:35):
Lively and I. And I just thought, you know, as
I was like contemplating this, this whole incident, like, tell
me you don't have your finger onthe pulse without telling me
you're you're completely out of touch because like, it's the new
era, baby me too is done and gone.
(12:56):
You know God because I keep hearing rumblings of people
thinking Matt Lauer should come back.
Oh, I haven't heard that, but. Yeah, I've I've been hearing
that didn't. He have a fucking trap door in
his office. They here's the thing, they all
did at all. They all did.
And I think it had something to do.
(13:17):
It was security. I think it had something to do
with security. It wasn't just him.
And I really hate when stories like that come out and we don't
get context because it it, it doesn't it, it doesn't help, it
doesn't, it doesn't help the cause.
But I agree, the me too movementreally does seem to be.
(13:37):
Oh, we don't. We don't believe women anymore.
Do you think that's true? I mean, you and I might, right?
And like, you know, on an individual basis, like women
might. But like, we're just, we just
got a whole new tone in this country since November, you
(13:59):
know, the vibe has really shifted.
Yeah. It's the broligarchy.
I don't like it either, but herewe are.
Yes, and that's why I'm so frustrated at this whole lively
Baldoni thing, because it doesn't just affect her, right?
It affects all of us. If she, if, she if, if, if.
(14:22):
I want to be clear, if she made these accusations up to position
herself as a victim, I'm going to be pissed.
Because this actually is so rare, right?
Like it's so fucking rare that women make this shit up, but
it's the first thing you hear from men who are assholes.
(14:43):
Right, nice little Segway. You sent me an article about
dark empaths and I was fascinated it.
Did. Yeah, it did.
It did. So the Guardian had an article
titled Narcissists only more devious, The truth about dark
empaths and apparently dark empath talk has been trending.
(15:08):
I hadn't seen any of these videos on TikTok, had you?
Before this article, had you? No, OK.
I'm sure I'm going to once we finish recording this.
Yeah, for sure. But well, OK, so a dark empath
is apparently the most dangerouspersonality.
(15:30):
They're like narcissists, only more devious.
First identified in 2021 in a study published in the Journal
of Personality and Individual Differences, Researchers define
it as a novel psychological construct concerning individuals
who have a high degree of empathy alongside what is known
as dark traits. How this plays out in practices.
(15:52):
Someone who appears to be caringand sensitive, but who is
actually using those skills to further their own agenda.
Boy, we did have a good Segway, didn't we?
Yes, we did. Look at a chew, Blake Lively.
I don't actually. I'm not actually calling her a
dark empath, but she does seem like an asshole.
(16:13):
Which actually before we get back into the stark empath
thing, you said you you were looking at like some of her past
appearances. Did you see the one where she
was on some panel for Gossip Girl and she cracked a joke
about Leighton Meester being born in jail?
Yes. God damn like just talk about
toad def. Right.
(16:34):
Anyway, not a. Nice person she's.
Not nice. Anyway, how is it possible to
manufacture empathy? Can't we as humans detect when
that's being done? Turns out there's more than one
type of empathy. There's the deeply caring type
that most of us understand, which is called affective
(16:55):
empathy. And that's the real thing.
This is the degree to which I feel what you are feeling.
So, for example, when you feel sad, that makes me feel sad.
But there's another type known as cognitive empathy.
And in that case, the script goes, I know what you're
thinking, I understand your mental state, but I really don't
(17:15):
care about it. And this information is
important to the dark empath because if they want to predict
your behavior, they need to understand what you're thinking
in order to try to control you. It's this manipulation by
stealth that can feel so unnerving if you're on the
receiving end of it. Then we have an anecdote from
(17:36):
somebody about a a boss, which is unsurprising, right?
Call calls to mind that infamousstudy about like 90% of CE OS or
psychopaths. Or actually, it might be higher,
but I don't have it in front of me, so don't don't at me.
OK, so we got an anecdote about a boss.
(17:57):
Unfortunately, dark empaths are extremely good at getting their
prey to drop their defenses because they intellectually
assemble an understanding of theother person's weaknesses and
where their loyalties will lie and what their insecurities are.
They crave this knowledge because then they can use it to
manipulate. So here's an example of a
(18:17):
romantic relationship. Say the dark empath knows that
their wife derives a lot of pride from their workplace
achievements and how she's viewed professionally.
She gets an amazing job. This means the dark empath will
feel at risk of potentially losing her to other people, and
he will then lose the spotlight and potentially the right to
make all of the decisions. Her success at work is making
(18:40):
her feel special and he's losinghis power over her.
So in this scenario, he would typically scheme to bring her
down. He might say things like, I know
how important it is for you to show up to work looking sorry to
show up for work looking the part.
But when you dress like that, you look like a mutton dressed
as lamb. It's I don't know who would say
(19:03):
that. OK, the guardian.
I'm very surprised because I thought you would know better.
So like their close relative, the narcissist, a dark empath is
territorial, which according to psychologists is common for such
types to create exclusion from friends, family and Co workers.
(19:26):
Isolation means you're more likely to doubt yourself and the
dark empath can make you rethinkand distort reality.
So it's another form of gaslighting, right?
One reason there's so much interest in these types of
people is because they present us with a puzzle, good and evil,
wrapped in the same package. At the most diabolical level,
(19:46):
the Dark Empath will show up in the form of a Jimmy Savile type,
which again, this is from the Guardian.
Jimmy Savile for those who don'tknow, was an an English TV host
for like 100 years, just just a super long time before
eventually he was discovered to have have been a pedophile the
(20:08):
whole time. At the end of his life, of
course. So anyway, the Jimmy Savile
type, his skill in winning people's trust, posing as this
charitable benefactor, allowed him to gain access to vulnerable
young girls. But that's an extreme example.
What's most striking about the recent research is that it
reveals how prevalent the phenomena is.
(20:31):
We identified it as a trait combination displayed by 19% of
the 1000 people we surveyed. So almost one in five of us have
this personality type. But traits exist on a continuum,
so it's not about everyone having a personality disorder.
(20:52):
So let's see. Then they talk about the Dark
Triad. Oh yeah, I was talking about
that this morning with people. Do you want to try man about the
Dark Triad? The dark triad is we studied
this when I was getting my certification, the IT is
psychopathy, narcissism and Machiavellianism.
(21:13):
And I think a really great example, obviously, would be
Trump. Sure.
Right where it's someone who's who's deeply manipulative with
no sense of remorse. But also impulsive.
Yes, yes, and the the here's thedifference.
(21:34):
The difference between a narcissist and a dark empath is
that a dark empath can read how you're feeling and then exploit
that to their benefit. Whereas a narcissist is to is to
self evolved basically to to care what you're feeling.
Yeah, like they don't even really consider it.
(21:55):
Right, and This is why they say the dark empath is is darker is
scarier because they can get in your head and figure out it.
Let's put it this way. It's me, but bad.
It's somebody who can not just tell how you're feeling, but no,
(22:16):
no, but can tell what's what's motivating you, like why you're
doing something. You know why, why are you trying
to turn this person against me? Because you're threatened,
because you can't handle someonestanding up to you.
That's what that's what I would say, like I can do.
Whereas in a dark empath, we'll take that and then use it to
(22:41):
manipulate whoever their target is, whoever their victim is, and
manipulate them in in a bad way and make them vulnerable and
isolate them and break them down.
Whereas a narcissist, they, theydo that to some degree, but they
don't have the the ability to read to, to read and pick up on
(23:05):
how somebody's feeling and what motivates somebody and what
their vulnerabilities are. So actually the work example is
is illustrative. If we maybe we should backtrack.
If you don't mind, I'll share this work example that the
Guardian includes. So Yasmin works in event in
event management. It's a very social vibe and
(23:26):
Elaine, the new boss, like to treat us to a Friday afternoon
drinks and trolley akaa few drinks being passed around
between desks. The evening would often and in
the pub and soon her boss started to share confidences
about her personal life, prompting Yasmin to reveal her
struggles trying to get pregnant.
It felt great that my boss was also becoming a good friend, she
(23:49):
said, and mentor and it made my office life enjoyable.
But things started to go wrong when Elaine confided about how
stress was taking its toll on her health.
She frequently asked Yasmin to take on extra tasks.
I was happy to help her, knowingwhat pressure she was under for
management, and she also hinted that a promotion was coming up
for me. But then she embarked on a not
(24:09):
so subtle campaign to try to putme off the idea of starting a
family. She'd tell me that at 35, I
still had loads of time and didn't I want to prioritize my
career and my future earnings first.
It's only with hindsight that I realized what an outrageous
boundary overstep that was. At the time, I genuinely thought
she was looking out for me. A few months later, Jasmine or
(24:30):
Yasmine discovered that she was pregnant.
She told Elaine and wasn't expecting such an extreme
reaction. She says she went ballistic and
started screaming. How could you do this to me
after all I've done to you, Donefor you?
Oh. God, all right, A perfect
example of both a dark empath and the dark triad.
(24:51):
Amy Dunn, Gone Girl, right? That Machiavellianism, that plan
that she put together to to destroy her husband.
Yeah, because she knows how he'dbe feeling, but also how
everyone observing. Right, Right.
She understood optics, right? She was a narcissist.
She could read people very well.I think her parents, weren't
(25:14):
they psyched? What was it?
The mother was like a children'sbook author or something.
I think they were both. Psychologists.
Were they both psychologists? As I recall, but at least one
was. Right.
So she was able to read people, she was able to, she was able to
plot. I mean that her plan really was
pretty, pretty brilliant. Had a couple of things not gone
(25:36):
wrong. But she is a great example of
somebody who, like she knew Nickwas just so weak.
She knew that she knew how insecure he was.
She knew that he felt like, you know, he was a writer and he he
(25:56):
hadn't really succeeded. She knew she really, really knew
how to attack his ego. I'm.
So glad you mentioned Amy Dunn because, well, I, I just always
like talking about Amy Dunn. I.
Love Amy Dunn is really one of the best women characters.
(26:18):
Fictional, Yeah. Oh, for sure.
Also, you know, not not really the villain, but also like,
totally the villain, right. I guess like the villain, but
I'm not mad at her. Right, right.
Exactly. We believe in women's rights and
wrongs, Sarah. Which which leads me to.
(26:40):
Listen. But we don't judge, right?
Yeah, yeah. Which leads me to my my next
question, which is like, did youalso panic a little bit when you
were reading this? At what part?
Well, were were you not also thinking like, Oh my God, is
this me? There were times reading this
(27:04):
where I'm thinking, I really want her to get away with this.
Oh my God, what's wrong with me?Oh no, I I mean the Dark Empath
article were were you also reading it?
Panicking a little bit thinking Oh no, this is describing me.
No, OK. No, I'm a little concerned
though that you might have been,but no, because like I said, I
(27:25):
don't. Well, OK, wait a minute.
I did just have someone call me manipulative and I thought
that's I don't, I don't think I'm manipulative at all.
But I asked some people, what doyou think?
Do you think it am I manipulative?
And they say it's not that you're manipulative, it's that
you just state your opinion about somebody.
(27:46):
And because people, because you have credibility and because
people trust you and think you're smart, they believe you
without. And that's that's very dangerous
because I don't want to be just because I have an opinion.
I don't want people to just believe me because it's me.
And So what is it? With great power comes great
(28:09):
responsibility, Sarah. Yeah, it's true.
But but. Unless you're the president.
Unless you're the president. So I guess I'm not.
I'm not really afraid of it, ButI did recognize things like, oh,
I know how to. I can I can figure out what your
vulnerability is and I can use it against you.
OK, so that's interesting because for me there was a
(28:30):
different like, oh, it's I guessso I guess to to sum up, it
sounds like you're saying like you read this and you were like,
OK, two out of three. Ergo, I'm not a dark empath.
Two out of three. Like 2 out of three traits but
not a dark empath Like 2 out of three were applicable maybe?
(28:53):
Well, what too? Which I don't know.
I don't know which, but I mean it sounds like you're saying no
to manipulation. Well, like, don't we all
manipulate though? Don't you think we're all
manipulative? Well, you want something.
OK, glad you asked, because you.Think all right.
As I was reading this, panickinga little bit because I was like,
(29:14):
Oh no, it may. It may.
I've, I, you know, in the end I determined like, Oh no, like
this probably isn't me because Idon't manipulate people.
I don't, I don't think. Yeah, I don't.
Again, I don't think it's manipulation.
I I I think I'm very good at presenting an argument.
(29:36):
Yeah. Right there, there's a
difference, I think. And it's not to do something
bad, right? I'm not.
I'm not manipulating people to hurt them.
Mm hmm but but like is that enough to not make you a darker
path if you if you are admittingto manipulating mm hmm.
(30:01):
But like you said, I don't thinkI don't, I don't think I
manipulate people. I I think I just know how to
make a good argument. OK, Is that is that
manipulation? I don't know, listen, the, the
part that I really identified with was not feeling empathy.
And, and please let me tell you what I mean when it, when it
(30:23):
described like being able to empathize on a superficial
level, wherein you, you know, you can read facial expressions,
you understand how people are feeling intellectually.
It's just that, it's just that like what you eat, is it going
(30:43):
to make me shit, you know, if you're having a bad idea, OK, or
a bad day, I mean. OK.
I did a little research and I looked up on Chatty PT earlier
of course. And that's a great segue to our
next topic. And the sort of traits of a dark
empath is emotional manipulation, conditional
(31:04):
empathy, charm and charisma, passive aggressive behavior,
Machiavellian tendencies. And here's here's what I think
separates us from actual dark empath.
Dark empaths, they have a sadistic streak.
Dark empaths derive pleasure from others discomfort or
misfortune, even if they don't show it outwardly.
(31:27):
Yeah, OK. And sadism is different from
schadenfreude, right? Yes.
I, I want to, I want to clarify that as well, 'cause like we, we
can all enjoy TikTok videos of people who voted for Trump
crying 'cause they got laid off.Right.
Sure can. We can all enjoy those, but we
didn't. We didn't 'cause that so.
(31:48):
Right. Can't be dark empaths, right?
OK. I just, you know, it got me.
I have to admit it got me a little a little concerned that I
might be a psychopath because I was like, am I really supposed
to be like feeling what people feel?
Because I don't, I really don't.I just feel what I feel.
(32:12):
We might happen to feel the samething, but again, like if you're
having a bad day, I might console you, but like, I'm going
to, I'm going to go on having a fine day, right?
I definitely have those feelingssometimes of very being very
numb. I was thinking that with Luna
the other day because I was thinking, why isn't she?
(32:33):
I want her to be more affectionate, but also I just
didn't feel. I don't feel for her.
What I felt for Luca, what I felt for Moon.
Maybe that's something that's coming or maybe that's just my
own inability. Maybe I'm just not capable of
it. I don't know.
But it bothers me that I don't feel that there are certain
things where I don't have any feelings.
(32:56):
And I, and I think a lot of it has to do with just trauma.
I really do. I think trauma just numbs.
Us well for sure it. Desensitizes us and but but put
a video on. Put in a video on my fyp of a
dog being put down and I am on the floor.
Forget it, my day is done. Yeah.
(33:17):
So I have the capability to feelcertain things, but I I don't
know that I feel them all the time for all people or people in
general. I.
Think, you know, Luna is still new to you.
So obviously your, your feelings, I think will deepen
with the but I also think it's OK if they're not the same.
(33:38):
Like I do believe in the notion of like soul pets, right?
I I really do. I mean, right, you know, Sam is
a soul pet for me. That's what's so weird.
Sam is a soul pet for me. But in that case, we're we're
getting off on a tangent with with when there's a history of
trauma, it's very difficult to feel anything after certain
(33:59):
points. Sure, right.
I. It's like a self preservation.
It is. I think it is a self
preservation. I do.
I do think that. But that doesn't mean we're
incapable of it. That doesn't mean that we can't
be kind and compassionate. Even if we don't feel it, we
can. We can mask it.
Doesn't mean we're evil. Right, right, right.
(34:20):
It is. It really is the sadism and the
extreme to which we that we're narcissistic or the OR or that
we're self involved. Right.
Yeah. And sadism.
Yeah, it has. It has a degree of
intentionality. I did.
Right, very much so. Which is.
Which is the difference between that and, as I said,
schadenfreude. So I guess in conclusion, don't
(34:42):
panic if you if you have one or two or even 3 of the dark triad
traits as long as you aren't sadistic.
I, I do, you know, emotional manipulation.
I, I, I think we all do that. I really, I really do.
I don't think we all do that. You don't.
(35:02):
You don't think we all do that? No, at least not intentionally.
OK, not intentionally, all right?
Conditional empathy. I definitely do that.
Sure. Charm and charisma.
Sure. I'm.
I'm a fucking delight. What about you passive
aggressive behavior? I don't think.
(35:23):
I think we're aggressive, aggressive.
Sure. OK, the next one.
Machiavellian tendencies. They believe that the ends
justify the means and use their social skills and empathy as
tools to achieve personal goals.They may manipulate social
dynamics, pit people against each other, or use flattery
(35:43):
strategically. Yeah, I know somebody like this.
I've seen this in action. And that's that's not you
either. Part of it is I think, I mean,
but again, like I, I feel like part of this just describes
everybody like like insincere pleasantries, like we all do
that the the part I don't do is pitting people against each
(36:07):
other. Correct, correct.
But you know why I don't do that?
Because I know it'll backfire, not because it's wrong.
Exactly. Well, OK, Fairpoint.
If I could, if I could get away with it, obviously I'd be doing
that you. Would All right, so in
conclusion, we may or may not bedark empaths, all right, Well,
(36:32):
we're not. Sadistic.
But we're not sadistic. So that's the we're going to
cling to that one as best we can.
I want to hear if you guys have ever dealt with a dark empath or
somebody who falls under the, the, the dark triad category.
Yeah. Is there anybody in your life
that you've that you've had to deal with in that?
(36:53):
Particular is there anybody thatyou have identified as like,
yeah, strong for the Dark Triad but like that you don't consider
a threat like I'm I'm. Dealing with this now with
somebody with, with a woman in the true crime community.
I'm dealing with this definitely.
She's one of those pitting people against each other and
(37:14):
manipulating situations. And yeah.
It seems like there's a lot of that in the true crime
community. There really is because you're
dealing with an awful lot of fucking psychopaths and
narcissists. And you know, The thing is, is
that you what what it comes downto is you're dealing with a lot
of people who have a lot of trauma and some of it is healed
and some of it isn't. And when the unhealed and the
(37:35):
healed are in the same dynamic or in the same?
Group it can create. A lot of chaos.
Like lions and gazelles. Lions and and gazelles.
Exactly. All right, Sarah, we know how
this is going to go. This is we know how this is
going to go. If you want, we have a change of
format coming up in March where we are going to be starting a
(37:58):
series and we've come up with a title.
And I need to thank Sheila for this title because it was so
good. And I it's like Sarah said, I
can't believe we didn't come up with any weight puns.
Actually embarrassing for us. Right.
And the, this the segment the series is going to be called and
it's a, it's about our GLP journeys and what brought us
there, what our experiences and just a lot of things not just
(38:22):
around weight, but around, you know, Sarah, Sarah is, has also
started. And.
So we have sort of a perimenopause view and A and a
post menopause view, which I think is something we don't talk
about a lot. And we're calling it Worth the
wait, which I love. This is what we're calling the
(38:44):
series. So that starts in March and
that's going to start the first week in March and it's going to
be bi weekly. And then in the like in the
weeks between, we'll be dating advice episodes.
We're also going to be changing the tiers on Patreon.
(39:05):
They're not going to be that different.
You're still going to be gettinga lot of the same benefits.
We're but we're just going to besort of retooling everything.
But that starts in March. And if you know the GOP is going
to be for paid subscribers only,the dating advice.
We're. Going to get pretty personal
there. The dating advice posts are
going to be free and we will do bonus episodes as well, so that
(39:30):
for people who might want to subscribe to a tier that
includes the bonus dating content.
So you can go to patreon.com/datology Coach and
subscribe. I'm excited.
We've already started recording and talking and discussing our
experiences because we've both already started and I'm excited
(39:51):
to share it with you. I want to hear your stories as
well. I really want to make this more
of a sort of a community thing. So go to patreon.com/datology
Coach to subscribe. Follow us on Instagram at
Datology pod, follow me on Instagram at the Christendom
THECHRISTANM, follow me on TikTok at datology coach and my
(40:11):
character analysis same on YouTube and send your letters.
If you have letters to hello@datologycoach.com or go to
datologycoach.com and submit your letter.
Sarah, what you got? Nothing.
That's that's it. That's it, That's all you got.
That's it, yeah. Woo.
(40:32):
No notes, no notes. OK, Bog witches, bog vase, bog
warlocks. Value your time, decenter men,
and center yourself. Goodbye.
Bye.
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