July 1, 2025 • 37 mins
This week on Worth The Weight, we’re talking about a man who ghosted a woman for three weeks—only to crawl back into her inbox to declare he was “0% interested” and demand she unmatch him. (Because clearly, unmatching is a task best outsourced to the woman you just emotionally sucker-punched.)
We break down how this kind of passive-aggressive tantrum is less about closure and more about control, and why so many men would rather hurt a woman than admit they’re hurt by a woman. We talk emotional dysregulation, scorekeeping in dating, and how apps are turning everyone into exhausted, defensive messes waiting for the other shoe to drop.
I also open up about how dating apps used to send my rejection sensitivity dysphoria into overdrive—and why so many of us with ADHD find these platforms especially brutal.
Later in the episode, Sarah and I unpack a viral post from a woman who's been dating a guy for six weeks… and still doesn’t know if he’s attracted to her. No flirting, no physical affection, but sure, he did call her gorgeous once and laughed at her jokes. Is he just being respectful… or is he emotionally squatting for free therapy and attention?
We also discuss why emotional labor shouldn’t be the price of admission just to date a man in 2025, how filtered social media has warped our sense of reality (especially his), and what it means when a man can't tell you what he wants—but definitely expects you to read his mind.
Oh, and yes—Sarah shares how a series of confusing, chaste dates led to a marriage. So miracles still happen, apparently.
⏱ Episode Breakdown
01:42 – Ghosted, then told to unmatch him? The audacity.
05:30 – Why men lash out instead of owning their feelings
08:00 – Dating apps as emotional landmines
13:00 – Filters, delusions, and why men think they’re hotter than they are
18:50 – The tradwife fantasy: is it real or just viral cosplay?
23:30 – Six weeks, no sex: respectful or red flag?
28:00 – When men treat women like free therapy
35:00 – Sarah’s handshake date… that led to marriage
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👀 Got a dating dilemma? A ghosting mystery? An “is-it-me-or-is-he-just-delusional?” situation? Send it in!
We’re answering listener questions on the pod, and we want yours. Whether it’s a green flag you’re second-guessing , a walking ick 🥴, or a text you need decoded —spill it. We’ve got thoughts. Probably too many. 😏 Submit your dating questions here.
BOOK RECOMMENDATIONS
In this week’s episode, Sarah provides two book recommendations.
Pixel Flesh
Pixel Flesh is a bold, brilliant exposé on toxic beauty culture and the pressure to perform femininity online.
✨ If you’ve ever looked in the mirror and wondered who you're really trying to impress, this book is for you.
🔗Buy it here https://amzn.to/4eDjFRh
(As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.)
Writers & Lovers
If you’ve ever felt stuck between who you were supposed to become and who you actually are, Writers & Lovers will hit you right in the gut.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Worth the Wait podcast. Sarah, Hi, I have a question for
you. OK, If you were dating somebody
for six weeks and they never made any kind of move on you,
what would what would you think?Something was happening.
Something was going weird. Weird.
We're going to talk about that in this episode.
We have a, a case of a woman who's been dating somebody for
(00:32):
about 6 weeks. He's not making any moves on her
and she's kind of doing a littlebit of heavy lifting and I, I
don't know if that's a, a red flag or not, but we're going to
talk about it. We're also going to talk about
Princess treatment lady if you've seen her viral.
Videos. Oh, I sure have.
Oh, boy. Well, she is teaching women how
(00:52):
to get Princess treatment from their their partner.
And it involves not talking to wait staff and not making eye
contact with people. And he's tying her shoes.
And it's a lot of body checking.And it's just a lot of really
concerning behavior because everybody's got a different
opinion on this. Is it a kink?
There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on.
(01:13):
Is it a kink? Is she a Mormon?
What's going on? Why the Big Gulp?
Diet Cokes? So hold on for that.
But what we're going to start with is a message that a woman
received from a guy she met on adating app.
And this is a perfect example ofwhy women are abandoning dating
apps. The man and lashes out at this
woman and we're going to talk about how men if men cannot get
(01:37):
your attention or validation, they will settle for your pain.
So the woman says being ghosted for three weeks and suddenly got
this kind of message. I'm so done with dating apps and
the man messaged her and said please unmatch.
I am 0% interested. Sorry, already found love first
of all in. Three weeks.
(01:58):
In three weeks, he found love. Wow.
But first of all, he didn't findanything.
Let's be very clear about that. He didn't find anything.
Secondly, I hear stories like this all the time where people
are trying to gauge someone's interests or they feel they've
been initiating or doing most ofthe work and so they just stop
(02:19):
communicating to see what the other person is going to do.
Ill advised them on both sides. And the reason it's ill advised
is 1 test an ultimate and thingslike that.
They never work. But two people are so burnt out
on dating apps, they're everybody's waiting for the
other shoe to drop. So if you give somebody a
reason, they are going to unmatch, block, delete, they're
(02:43):
waiting for it. And so if you give it to them,
it's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy.
I, I really feel like people arejust sabotaging themselves over
and over and over again. I think what this guy did was
decide I've been doing all the work.
I want to see how she feels. I want her to do something.
So out of the blue, he just stops communicating and so she
(03:05):
doesn't do anything. And then when she didn't do
anything and she didn't respond,he decided, well, if I can't get
attention from you, I leave. I can get a reaction.
And so he responds to her or he messages her and says, please
unmatch me because he wants her to do the work.
I'm sorry Sir, I'm matching works both ways, I'm not sure if
(03:27):
you're aware of that. That's why I was asking if she
said what dating app this was because I I'm just yeah I'm
confused about why he would evenask that of her.
Because he's being passive aggressive.
Well, sure. Right, but.
If you're going to do something like this, at least come up with
a viable excuse. I don't think he thought that
far ahead. I think that this guy was just
(03:50):
mad and decided I'm going to lash out at her because I'm hurt
and I'm angry. And most men, they've never been
taught how to deal with these feelings.
And so he doesn't just or any good point.
He doesn't just message her and say, hey, I haven't heard from
you. What's up with the disconnect?
He doesn't say that. And you know why he doesn't say
(04:12):
that? Because he doesn't want to admit
he noticed. Well, right, well, it goes a
little deeper than that. He doesn't want to admit he
noticed because that that makes him emotionally vulnerable and
he's not OK with that. He doesn't want to let on, hey,
this kind of hurt my feelings. He doesn't want to let on to
that. And So what do a lot of men do
in these situations? They go straight to anger.
(04:34):
He didn't want to just he didn'twant to just, I don't know, he
didn't want to just disconnect from her, right?
Like this is, this is control disguised as closure.
This guy's mad. He wants to hurt her because she
hurt him. And This is why I always say men
externalize, women internalize. We blame ourselves.
(04:55):
Men do not. He doesn't want to take
accountability for the fact thatit sounds like he initiated this
ghosting, that when she didn't, when she didn't read his mind,
he wanted revenge. He wanted to, he wanted to hurt
her. And so he says to her, I'm 0%
(05:16):
interested. Just just the language alone.
Please unmatch me. I'm 0% interested.
I I've already found love or I found love.
Every single line in this message is an arrow.
This could be Bumble because maybe he actually can't unmatch
her. Maybe she has to do it.
Is that the case with Bumble? Maybe she doesn't say what the
(05:38):
dating app is. Maybe that's insane that he
can't unmatch. I've never heard that is that.
True. That's why if I was asking, I
don't know. No.
It was the case with Bumble thatit was supposed to be like women
friendly, right? Right.
Which should be well, but men and women should have the
ability to unmatch. Well, I would think.
Right. I would think he's just be, he's
(05:59):
just having a little mantrum. It's embarrassing because like,
whole time he's mad that like, he didn't act like a man.
You're you're. That's what he's about.
You're more accurate than you than you realize, right?
He's, he is somebody who people who act like this, who lash out
like this, they're here's what they're telling you.
(06:20):
The most important thing that they're telling you is that
they're emotionally dysregulatedbecause he goes from I'm hurt or
I'm disappointed to anger to like vindictive, right?
He's not just angry at her, he wants to hurt her.
That's emotional dysregulation. He's not having a proportionate
reaction to the stimuli. The other thing is this.
(06:43):
This is indicative of somebody who keeps score in a
relationship. Oh yeah?
Well, that was obvious as soon as he decided he was going to
test her and see if she would initiate dates.
Right. As if she should be doing that.
She should not, to be clear. Right.
And this is like I said, things are far too dire on dating apps.
You cannot don't don't tempt fate by by using a test like
(07:07):
this because it will blow up in your face.
People are far. Everybody's skittish,
everybody's waiting for things to drop out, everybody's waiting
to be ghosted. That's, that is that's where
we're at here, right? Dating apps really do provide or
create or cause a very unique form of Trump in that it it can
(07:31):
trigger a lot of different kindsof of wounds.
It can trigger your anxiety and anxious attachment style.
It can trigger abandoned wounds,It can trigger rejection
sensitivity dysphoria. That was one of the reasons why
I really didn't like up until I met Dawn, because I met Dawn on
OkCupid up until I met him, I was so anxious about using
(07:55):
dating apps because of my rejection sensitivity dysphoria.
And this is very common with people with ADHD where we
perceive things to a more intensely than again, it's sort
of a, a disproportionate reaction to a stimuli.
And and I couldn't those dating apps whenever somebody would
ghost or I wouldn't get a match back.
(08:17):
It was just constant, constant that rejection sensitivity being
triggered. Well, and like, that's most of
the experience of the apps, right?
Most of it is rejection, right? Hopefully on both sides, but
yeah, most of it is rejection. Right, but there's rejection of
this person didn't respond to me, them's the breaks.
That's how this goes. And then there's repeatedly
(08:40):
having people ghost you, match you, matching with, matching
with somebody, only for them to not respond to your message or
not respond with any real effortbecause they never really looked
at your profile. People are.
So they're so burnt out and cynical about it that they're
(09:00):
saying, I am not going to investany more time than I have to in
this process. And that in and of itself is the
problem because finding somebody, finding a substantive
real connection requires A willingness to risk, to take a
risk, to make yourself vulnerable.
And people are are saying I'm not doing that anymore.
(09:22):
So. I think you have to go in with
the expectation that like eventually, well, either it will
eventually work, meaning you'll you'll find a long term partner
or whatever you're looking for, or if it doesn't work, at least
it'll be fun. Like you have to go in with that
expectation and it seemed seems like people don't expect it to
work anymore and so they're doing everything begrudgingly.
(09:43):
Absolutely, and they don't expect it to work anymore,
sadly, because this doesn't work.
No, it really doesn't. I mean the switch from apps
rather to apps from dating sites.
Like probably the worst thing that ever happened to daters.
It really, it really is because we were already, we were already
determining compatibility and attraction on A1 dimensional
(10:06):
representation. But dating apps, it's like
almost half dimensional representation.
Well, not only that, but the wood the way the apps are
designed in order to keep getting your business, they
don't want you to be successful in dating.
Right, every once in a while that it's going to work out
because they they need, they need some success, right?
(10:26):
They need something. And This is why I saw somebody,
some guy wrote a comment on, on threads saying nothing, nothing
will damage myself esteem more than looking at who's liked me
on Bumble or Hinge. And when I tell you, I went to
this guy's profile and threads and I thought, Sir, Sir, I sent
(10:49):
you his picture. You did.
I did OK Sir. I wrote a comment and I said,
you know, typically these these apps are designed to to inspire
or encourage aspirational swiping because we get more
attention on these apps than we would offline.
Offline, we have a bunch of different criteria that factor
(11:11):
into our determination. If we find someone attractive or
if we think there's potential compatibility, because we can
determine personality or get a sense of it, we can get a little
bit of sense of their character.We can just see more than just
some photos and some words. And so on a dating app, we get
more attention. It may not be attention from
people that we want, but it's still, it still makes us believe
(11:37):
that we are in higher demand than we might actually be.
Doesn't mean you're not. Did a man concluded that,
though? A man concluded what that it
affects. His higher demand than he is in
2025 especially it's it's just aweird conclusion for him to
draw. I would also love to see who
he's matching with because I mean, you know, the one
redeeming thing about his post is he didn't give us any
(11:59):
examples. He didn't, he didn't embarrass
anyone, thank God. But I mean, currently some of
them are firmly within his league.
Right, but see we on dating appswe overestimate.
But also, this is what I meant about aspirational they
encourage us to swipe up well, don't they?
(12:20):
Also like if a profile is doing well, getting a lot of
attention, don't they? They like promote it by showing
more people that profile, right?Right, right.
Because it is. That's what the algorithm does.
It really, really does pay attention to who's getting the
most likes, who's the most engaged, etcetera, etcetera.
So these dating apps are creating this false sense of
(12:42):
this abundance, making us think we have more more options than
we might actually have. It's making us think that we're
more attractive, so to speak, than than than we might be.
Now I want to talk about that point a little, a little bit
more because what I think is so interesting about that point and
it used, you said in your comment, it was a little bit
(13:04):
dated at this point, right? It's from like 2018 or 19,
right? That study on in Washington
Post. About how people overestimate
their address. Yes, OK, I think.
I think that's a key detail because since 2018-2019, it's
not like people are using fewer filters, you know what I'm
saying? Yeah.
So. So I I actually have been
(13:28):
reading this book called Pixel Flesh, which is basically about
how being online distorts the body image of women and girls in
particular. It's not about men, thank God,
but it makes us feel worse. And isn't it interesting that
conversely, men feel like they're more attractive than
they are when the more time women spend online, the more we
(13:49):
get body dysphoria? Right, but isn't.
But doesn't that, I mean, that makes sense, doesn't it?
You know, men are Men can use anything to make themselves feel
better about themselves. I mean literally men are seeing
more filtered images of women than they ever have before and
not thinking critically about them.
(14:11):
Right. They're they're just concluding
that's what women ought to look like.
And so then when you show up on a date with pores, they're like.
You're supposed to look like a dolphin.
Right. Right.
Anyway. Look kind of exaggerating.
Like I think that is men's expectation now.
Kind of like it's like an extension of like, I don't like
a lot of makeup. I like natural looking women.
(14:33):
And then they show you a pictureof Kylie Jenner, right?
Make it make sense. Or they yeah, they show a
picture of a woman with the no makeup makeup, Right, Right.
No, that's, that's still makeup.Do you think her eyelids are
that pink? Are you really?
But to go back to the to the guywho wrote the text, he, I feel
like in this case, and with a lot of men, they feel like if
(14:56):
you can't make me feel wanted, then I'll make you fear me or,
or resent me, right. If they can't feel wanted,
they'll they'll settle for beingfeared.
Right. But that explains all those guys
in the comments of women's Instagram, social media, Tik
Toks. This is where they interact with
(15:18):
women. And since they can't get any
real attention or validation, they'll settle for the fear and
the resentment. Because it's still attention,
that's how. That's how much their
masculinity is tied to female attention.
I mean, it's their whole sense of self I would say.
Like if you need that badly to be perceived, my dude.
(15:40):
Right. And therapy.
Let's be clear, we're talking about men who date women here,
right? Let's see.
The other thing is they were never taught how to process
rejection without turning it into revenge, right?
We were always taught that we needed to be gracious if we lost
something, right? That we needed to be be polite,
(16:04):
be gracious, don't react becausethen people will think XYZ of
you. Men.
Men and weren't taught that, andthey also weren't taught shamed.
I think they're starting to learn that now, finally.
Well, I don't like it. No, not at all.
Not at all. They're responding with anger.
Think think they're starting to get shamed.
A little, yes. And when they do end up feeling
(16:27):
that shame, they want to offloadit on to the woman.
Yeah, usually there's a an excuse.
Yes, but the other problem too is they feel entitled to a
woman's emotional labor even if they're the cause.
So he's this guy is the one who ghosted and he says to her and
he doesn't think twice about it.Unmatch me, Sir.
(16:48):
You do it right. Doesn't think twice about trying
to put that on her. That's amazing to me.
It I mean, it doesn't surprise me, but these are the things and
was I want to hear about the male loneliness epidemic.
Yeah, This is why. This is why because you have not
you have not learned how to process your emotions in a
(17:09):
healthy way. You want to share something with
you? Absolutely, I love a good share.
This is This is a quote from thebook Writers and Lovers, which
is by Lily King. Here it is.
Nearly every guy I've dated believed they should already be
famous, believed that greatness was their destiny and they were
already behind schedule. An early moment of intimacy
(17:31):
often revealed a confession of this sort, a childhood vision, a
teacher's prophecy, a genius IQ.At first, with my college
boyfriend, I believed it too. Later I thought I was just
choosing delusional men. Now I understand.
It's how boys are raised to think and how they are lured in
into adulthood. I've met ambitious women, driven
(17:52):
women, but no woman has ever told me that greatness was her
destiny. It's true, every bit of it.
And now I want to read that book.
It's. Really good.
What's the name of it again? That quote obviously step with
me. What's what's the name of it
again? It is from Writers and Lovers by
Lily Keogne. Nice.
OK, Yeah. I mean, I'm not surprised to see
a response like this from a man.This is how they deal with
(18:14):
rejection. And of course they're going to.
They're going to lash out, but this kind of treat is why people
are leaving dating apps. It's why women are off men,
right? Diminishing returns at this
point. It really is.
It really is. There's no return on investment
for women to use dating apps. And that's unfortunate because
(18:35):
it used to be a really productive way to meet somebody.
But it's become so toxic. That frustration and the
bitterness on both sides has just, it's just, boy, it just
has come to a breaking point, toa boiling point.
And now dating apps are there. They're hemorrhaging.
I don't think it helps at all either that it seems like women
(18:57):
are starting to value marriage alot less.
Like, simultaneous to being put off dating, there's a lot of
discourse right now about how even the best marriages are
never 5050. True, yes.
We're a long way from that now. It's funny that you brought up
marriage because if you're on TikTok, and I don't know if this
(19:17):
has crossed over into Instagram,there was a viral video from a
woman named Courtney Joelle who was teaching women about staying
in their feminine energy and howto get Princess treatment.
And at first, the first time I saw it, I thought maybe she was
an actual Princess, like she wastalking about royalty.
(19:40):
Oh, interesting. When I was hearing this, well,
he drives me up to the restaurant.
He gets out of his car, he opensmy door, He lets me in when I
get in, wherever I am, I don't interact with anybody.
I don't talk to the to the host staff.
They'll sound like a lady in waiting.
And it really does sound as though, OK, don't make eye
contact, don't do this. Wait for your, your handler to
(20:02):
come in and handle the situationand, and you know, handle all
the riffraff, so to speak. And she said, when we sit down,
he orders for me. And the wait staff, you know, I,
I think a lot of the wait staff,they wonder if, you know, I'm
like being oppressed. And for sure they'll they'll
keep trying to get her to answerand she'll either just look at
(20:22):
her husband or she won't give really full answers until.
They pick up the hint. That's bananas.
What I thought was really strange, she's on vacation.
Did you notice how she never wears any color?
Everything's white. With her fish.
Whiter beige. Like she wear black?
She wore black with her her bathing suit.
(20:43):
That's probably because it was more flattering, right?
She's got very, very, very fair skinned, so a black bathing suit
would look better on her than a white bathing suit, do you
think? Could that be the reason?
I don't know. I just know she wears black
sometimes. She's like she'll she'll wear
black to do Pilates. It's just, it's wild to me
because we've talked about we, we've talked about cults before
(21:05):
and how they tend to dress alikeand there's almost a uniform,
feels like a uniform. I think it is uniform.
Right. Do you think she's?
Do you think this is satire? I don't think it's satire, but I
think it might be a kink. I think it's not what she's
telling us it is. I think there's no way she
behaves like that at a restaurant.
There's no way. No, of course not.
(21:26):
Of course, of course not. But that's, that's what I'm
saying. There's something about this
that doesn't seem real to me. There's something.
I think it's heightened for social media.
For sure, definitely. And I, I think this is a woman
posturing to, I don't, I don't know if she's a Mormon.
I, I'm going to guess not because they moved from New
York, but it seems like a woman posturing and performing kind of
(21:49):
for her own entertainment, but also because now there's
potential to monetize it becauseshe's gone viral, right?
But then also for other women inUtah, because these trad wives,
man, everything is a competition.
This strikes me as a woman trying to convince herself that
she's happy, first of all. And then I think she is clever.
(22:09):
So I think, you know, she realizes, like, oh, if I can
seize on this moment, I can makea little bit of money.
And why not? Yeah.
And OK like girl get your bag. I just wish she wasn't pushing
such a toxic message. I mean, I have to agree, but it,
it is the moment, right? I mean, we've, we've swung way
the hell back to the right. We really have.
(22:32):
She really seems very alone. She really does.
Yeah, like just profoundly alone.
But I do I wonder how much of that is that his doing or is
that her? I don't know.
Or is it Utah in? Utah, right?
I don't know, but her name's Courtney Joelle.
You can follow her. I would love to hear what people
(22:53):
think about this person and see if they see anything that you
know that we kind of picked up on.
You can leave it in the comments.
Please leave us your feedback. Moving on Sarah, so I told you
about a, a social media post that I saw from a woman who said
that she'd been dating somebody for about 6 weeks and he had not
(23:15):
tried to be physically intimate with her.
And her friend was warning her saying that's that's really a
red flag. And so she posts this on social
media and saying my, my friend said that this is, is a red
flag. But I, but I don't know, you
know, he, he hasn't made any basically attempts.
She says I have made innuendos, which he has responded to and
(23:39):
said I always make him smile andlaugh.
And he called me gorgeous a couple of days ago.
Listen, this, this is what bothers me.
This is the red flag for me. And it's not that he hasn't
tried to sleep with her because we're in a time where physical
intimacy for women is, is literally could be fatal, right.
So I want to say he's being respectful, he just needs more
(24:01):
time. He's just somebody who needs to
have an emotional connection. Great.
What bothers? Also note that this woman is
English, so. Is that sex?
Is a little lower stakes for herthan in for Americans, but.
OK, OK, Fairpoint, that's reallysmart.
But here's the thing. She said, and I don't know if
she said this after writing thiscomment or I don't know when she
(24:21):
said it, but she said I suggested to him that we go away
for a couple of days, and he jumped at the opportunity.
Here's what's bothering me. And it's not that he's not
trying to sleep with her. It's that she doesn't know if
this man is attracted to her or not.
It's been six weeks. That concerns me.
What also concerns me is why areyou having to do these little
(24:43):
things? Yeah, to elicit some kind of
validation from him. I mean, I wouldn't call it
inviting him on a trip a little thing, right?
Let's go away for a couple of nights.
That's a man. That's a big commitment for
someone you haven't even slept with yet.
It sure is, but also who's paying for it?
You're going to expect him to pay for it?
You offered I. Don't know, right?
(25:04):
This is what I mean, and This iswhy I'm always please don't ask
men out, please don't initiate stuff like this.
And it has nothing to do with power or control or any of that
bullshit. It has to do with you want to be
able to see, you want to be ableto gauge what you're dealing
with. And if you're the one initiating
and you're the one doing the work, you're never going to
(25:25):
know, is he with me because he cares about me?
Or is he with me because I'm I'mlow efforts and he's using me as
a placeholder? Now it's been six weeks.
We don't know how many dates that is.
OK, I think she said. They go out a couple times a
week. Okay, I don't see that in the
initial post, but that's fine. Six weeks, we don't, we don't
(25:45):
really know how much time they've spent together.
We don't know what the activities have been, so we
don't know how the relationship has been progressing.
Like if they've been to 3 moviesand three concerts, they've
barely had a chance to talk, right?
Right. But still.
When I was dating, I assumed that men knew about and were
operating in accordance with thethree day rule, which at this
(26:06):
point is antiquated, so I'm going to explain what it is.
There used to be the expectationthat you were going to have sex
on the third date. Either round, children, let's
talk about ye oldie times. Exactly.
Thankfully that seems to have disappeared that expectation,
right? Yes.
But I think now that it has, it's made it much harder for men
(26:30):
and women to tell whether the other party is interested in
them. Because if honestly, if you're
not being crass, if you're not being touchy, I guess I
shouldn't say crass. If you're not being flirty, if
you're not being touchy like youcan, you can be so respectful
that the other person just doesn't know where your head's
at. Putting off physical intimacy.
I'm wondering, is this one of those men or people who think as
(26:54):
long as I'm not having sex I'm not cheating?
OK, maybe. Yeah, that's certainly a
possibility. Right.
So that's. Certainly, and I would say
that's even more likely than he's just too respectful.
Listen, I, I do really, I want to give this person, this guy
the benefit of the doubt and sayhe's just taking his time.
(27:15):
But you can take your time and still make sure the person
you're dating knows you desire them or that you're attracted to
them. It's the fact that she doesn't
know that really concerns me. I think she.
He might think he's putting signals out there and she might
not be picking them up. That's certainly possible.
(27:37):
I don't think it's as likely as,you know, some more unfortunate
explanation. What I actually think is
probably happening, most likely is that he's having sex
somewhere else. Absolutely.
And he's happy to go on dates with her because he's getting
sex right somewhere else, right?And as long as he's juggling at
least two women, right, Good enough time, right?
(28:00):
He doesn't need to be having sexwith all of them, right?
It gives him time to decide who,if any, he wants to eventually
commit to. That's what I think is happening
probably. Yeah, I, I definitely think she
is not the only person that he is interacting with or dating or
communicating with. And I think there's a chance
he's already in a relationship and he's doing that thing of,
(28:23):
like we said, the monkey who they won't let go of 1 branch,
they have a firm grasp on the new one.
Yeah. So he could be doing that.
He could be making sure he had he has someplace soft to land
when the relationship does end. Well, Speaking of like going
from branch to branch, he might not even be doing that.
He might just be using her for emotional labor.
That is a thing that I don't think women realize.
(28:46):
Men will be in a relationship with you simply for the
emotional labor and the free therapy.
Yeah, because they don't talk totheir friends.
No, of course not. And they need that in their
lives. Life again, here we go.
Because they haven't been taughthow to be vulnerable.
They're not comfortable with it unless it's with a woman.
Well. Dating probably is cheaper than
(29:07):
therapy. Well, maybe, maybe not, but I
want to correct what I just said.
They're they're only comfortablebeing vulnerable with women.
It's when they choose to be vulnerable, they choose when to
be vulnerable. There are some like in a
situation where I'm hurt you didn't react to this test that
you didn't know I was, you know that I was I was putting you
putting putting on you. And then there's when they
(29:29):
choose to it, you know, they need to unload about something
going on with their family or something from their childhood
or whatever. It's their ex, their job, right,
right, right. And they will absolutely use
women for that kind of emotionallabor and that kind of free
therapy because all they care about it.
Am I getting something out of this?
(29:49):
Oh, the idea of women's currency.
Who, you know, if you just are aman out with a woman, other men
see that. And that's a that's a form of
clout, right? And that, that ties into their
masculinity, right? That's really what it's all
about. That's very often what male
female friendships are about. For men, I think it's just like
(30:11):
they need to be around women. They need it, and that's an
added bonus. They get free emotional labor.
Right. Let me ask you, let's be, let's
be honest, it's, it's fine to say the politically correct,
sensitive thing here, right? Of maybe he's just getting to
know her. Do you think it's weird that
he's not trying to have sex withher?
(30:32):
Absolutely. Right, it is.
It is weird and I and I don't, Idon't want to say that.
I want to say he's just trying to be a good guy, but there's
something off here. I don't find this, you know, all
the men in the comments. Well, maybe he's just, he likes
to take his time and right. And I feel like you're all just
(30:53):
pandering to this woman. That's all you're doing.
Yeah, for sure. Right, so.
It's also, you know, in the bestinterest of all men if they work
together to not teach us anything useful about men,
right? Because then we, we stay on the
hook, we continue tolerating shitty behavior.
It's. Yeah, I don't know this.
This feels very so. That's why they're gassing her
(31:15):
up here, yes, and telling her toto stay on the on the line.
But also they see a vulnerable woman and they're just right
there. They're they're always in,
They're vulnerable woman adjacent.
But to me there is. Still a chance, Kristen, that
there's nothing weird going on here and it's just two people.
(31:36):
Taking. Their tongue in their time, but
also probably be there's some miscommunication.
And that's possible too. The only reason I believe it OK,
I I still maintain that like most likely explanation is not
good. It's not oh, he's just a great
guy. He's very respectful.
(31:57):
But I did one time meet a guy who I was very confused by.
I was talking to all my friends.I was like, and are we, am I his
friend? Like, yeah, what is up?
Is he gay? Is he a virgin?
That's another possibility. That's a possibility too.
But I was like, you know, we've been on X number of dates, we're
(32:18):
having a good time. We keep going on dates.
But like, he's just not making amove.
And then later found out that inhis view, I wasn't putting out
any signals, that I was open to it.
So like, we just kept going on dates because we were in fact
having a good time and he was just waiting for a clearer
signal from me. OK but this this falls under men
(32:41):
struggle to read social cues. Well, you've also told me that
I'm difficult to read. You are.
Exceptionally difficult to read.But I'm not, so you want no one
to sleep with me either. So I'm going to assume that
other women are also difficult to read.
Yeah, maybe, maybe. Well, yeah, I could see that
because we have so mindful of what we don't want to do this
(33:02):
because then we might be seen asthis way or we might be, I don't
want to be too this. And we're so in our heads about
it. We're afraid to be flirty and
we're we're afraid to be flirty because we don't know what we
might what might occur if we if we, if that, you know, if we end
up not being attracted to them. It's so fraught.
Well, it's also this situation where now their energies are
(33:25):
feeding off of each other, right?
She thinks he should take the lead, right?
Again, we're going to hypothetically give him the
benefit of the doubt. He's trying to be respectful.
He's waiting for some kind of sign.
She's not getting a sign from him.
So like, she's not being flirty because she's not being flirty.
Like trying even less. Somebody's just got to either
(33:46):
use their words. Actually, that's it.
Somebody's got to use their words.
I was going to say or make a move, but I don't think you
should do that without consent. I think, you know, it's 2025.
Just ask like we keep going out right?
I noticed we're not having sex. It's not about.
Right. And if you're, if you're
comfortable enough making this public and taking the risk of
(34:07):
having a bunch of strangers say things hurtful to you, then you
should be comfortable enough to say to this person who is
supposed to care about you and is supposed to not want to hurt
you. You should, you should feel
comfortable asking him. It's that she doesn't feel
comfortable. That's what bothers me.
That's what. Bothers me again.
I I had that third date expectation in my mind right
(34:29):
when I was in this situation. Third date came and went.
I don't happen to remember how many dates I went on before I
started asking my friends what they thought was up here, but I
can tell you that the situation only resolved because I just
asked the man. Like, hey, I noticed we keep
going on dates, right? That's sick.
What's that about? I think that's exactly what I
(34:51):
said actually. And he said, see, he put it on
you, and I don't like that. Why couldn't he?
I don't hear what you're saying about yeah, with that point, but
I also hear what you're saying when you tell me that I'm
difficult to read. I have to just assume that some
people find me difficult to read.
Fair fairpoint. All right.
(35:12):
Do you know how this resolved? Well, you do, but do you want to
share? Do you want me to share on the
pod how this resolved? What resolved?
This situation with this when I was in it.
Oh yeah, please tell us. Well.
Like I said, I, I used my words and that then it was like you
just, yeah, you weren't sure if I and I wasn't sure if you.
Well, then the floodgates are open.
(35:34):
Then you start having sex and it's fine.
Yeah. And then we got married.
OK, all right, son of a bitch. But I I literally left my first
date with my now husband thinking he straight up hated me
because. He straight up hated.
I thought he straight up hated me, not because of anything that
(35:54):
happened on the date about because the date concluded with
a handshake. I'm sorry, that is so cute
though. It's very funny in retrospect.
Obviously still talk about it sometimes, right?
But he's home so we can bring him on.
I don't know if you want to hearhis point of view here.
He has said to me, like, we literally just met and it was
lunch. Like, what was I supposed to do?
(36:15):
Like, I think that's a fairpoint.
All right, make sure you're following us on Worth the Wait
show on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok.
If you want to send in your dating questions, send them to
hello@datologycoach.com com or just go to dataologycoach.com to
submit the question. If you want not just our recaps
on and just like that, but advice or feedback that we think
is maybe a little too spicy for the public feed, go to
(36:38):
patreon.com/worth the Wait show and subscribe.
And remember, you can listen to the podcast on YouTube, Spotify,
iTunes, Amazon Music Overcast and please, please, please rate
US five stars on Spotify blog. Witches, Warlocks, days, value
your time, decent men and centeryourself.
Worth the Wait podcast. Sarah, Hi, I have a question for
you. OK, If you were dating somebody
for six weeks and they never made any kind of move on you,
what would what would you think?Something was happening.
Something was going weird. Weird.
We're going to talk about that in this episode.
We have a, a case of a woman who's been dating somebody for
(00:32):
about 6 weeks. He's not making any moves on her
and she's kind of doing a littlebit of heavy lifting and I, I
don't know if that's a, a red flag or not, but we're going to
talk about it. We're also going to talk about
Princess treatment lady if you've seen her viral.
Videos. Oh, I sure have.
Oh, boy. Well, she is teaching women how
(00:52):
to get Princess treatment from their their partner.
And it involves not talking to wait staff and not making eye
contact with people. And he's tying her shoes.
And it's a lot of body checking.And it's just a lot of really
concerning behavior because everybody's got a different
opinion on this. Is it a kink?
There's a lot going on. There's a lot going on.
(01:13):
Is it a kink? Is she a Mormon?
What's going on? Why the Big Gulp?
Diet Cokes? So hold on for that.
But what we're going to start with is a message that a woman
received from a guy she met on adating app.
And this is a perfect example ofwhy women are abandoning dating
apps. The man and lashes out at this
woman and we're going to talk about how men if men cannot get
(01:37):
your attention or validation, they will settle for your pain.
So the woman says being ghosted for three weeks and suddenly got
this kind of message. I'm so done with dating apps and
the man messaged her and said please unmatch.
I am 0% interested. Sorry, already found love first
of all in. Three weeks.
(01:58):
In three weeks, he found love. Wow.
But first of all, he didn't findanything.
Let's be very clear about that. He didn't find anything.
Secondly, I hear stories like this all the time where people
are trying to gauge someone's interests or they feel they've
been initiating or doing most ofthe work and so they just stop
(02:19):
communicating to see what the other person is going to do.
Ill advised them on both sides. And the reason it's ill advised
is 1 test an ultimate and thingslike that.
They never work. But two people are so burnt out
on dating apps, they're everybody's waiting for the
other shoe to drop. So if you give somebody a
reason, they are going to unmatch, block, delete, they're
(02:43):
waiting for it. And so if you give it to them,
it's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy.
I, I really feel like people arejust sabotaging themselves over
and over and over again. I think what this guy did was
decide I've been doing all the work.
I want to see how she feels. I want her to do something.
So out of the blue, he just stops communicating and so she
(03:05):
doesn't do anything. And then when she didn't do
anything and she didn't respond,he decided, well, if I can't get
attention from you, I leave. I can get a reaction.
And so he responds to her or he messages her and says, please
unmatch me because he wants her to do the work.
I'm sorry Sir, I'm matching works both ways, I'm not sure if
(03:27):
you're aware of that. That's why I was asking if she
said what dating app this was because I I'm just yeah I'm
confused about why he would evenask that of her.
Because he's being passive aggressive.
Well, sure. Right, but.
If you're going to do something like this, at least come up with
a viable excuse. I don't think he thought that
far ahead. I think that this guy was just
(03:50):
mad and decided I'm going to lash out at her because I'm hurt
and I'm angry. And most men, they've never been
taught how to deal with these feelings.
And so he doesn't just or any good point.
He doesn't just message her and say, hey, I haven't heard from
you. What's up with the disconnect?
He doesn't say that. And you know why he doesn't say
(04:12):
that? Because he doesn't want to admit
he noticed. Well, right, well, it goes a
little deeper than that. He doesn't want to admit he
noticed because that that makes him emotionally vulnerable and
he's not OK with that. He doesn't want to let on, hey,
this kind of hurt my feelings. He doesn't want to let on to
that. And So what do a lot of men do
in these situations? They go straight to anger.
(04:34):
He didn't want to just he didn'twant to just, I don't know, he
didn't want to just disconnect from her, right?
Like this is, this is control disguised as closure.
This guy's mad. He wants to hurt her because she
hurt him. And This is why I always say men
externalize, women internalize. We blame ourselves.
(04:55):
Men do not. He doesn't want to take
accountability for the fact thatit sounds like he initiated this
ghosting, that when she didn't, when she didn't read his mind,
he wanted revenge. He wanted to, he wanted to hurt
her. And so he says to her, I'm 0%
(05:16):
interested. Just just the language alone.
Please unmatch me. I'm 0% interested.
I I've already found love or I found love.
Every single line in this message is an arrow.
This could be Bumble because maybe he actually can't unmatch
her. Maybe she has to do it.
Is that the case with Bumble? Maybe she doesn't say what the
(05:38):
dating app is. Maybe that's insane that he
can't unmatch. I've never heard that is that.
True. That's why if I was asking, I
don't know. No.
It was the case with Bumble thatit was supposed to be like women
friendly, right? Right.
Which should be well, but men and women should have the
ability to unmatch. Well, I would think.
Right. I would think he's just be, he's
(05:59):
just having a little mantrum. It's embarrassing because like,
whole time he's mad that like, he didn't act like a man.
You're you're. That's what he's about.
You're more accurate than you than you realize, right?
He's, he is somebody who people who act like this, who lash out
like this, they're here's what they're telling you.
(06:20):
The most important thing that they're telling you is that
they're emotionally dysregulatedbecause he goes from I'm hurt or
I'm disappointed to anger to like vindictive, right?
He's not just angry at her, he wants to hurt her.
That's emotional dysregulation. He's not having a proportionate
reaction to the stimuli. The other thing is this.
(06:43):
This is indicative of somebody who keeps score in a
relationship. Oh yeah?
Well, that was obvious as soon as he decided he was going to
test her and see if she would initiate dates.
Right. As if she should be doing that.
She should not, to be clear. Right.
And this is like I said, things are far too dire on dating apps.
You cannot don't don't tempt fate by by using a test like
(07:07):
this because it will blow up in your face.
People are far. Everybody's skittish,
everybody's waiting for things to drop out, everybody's waiting
to be ghosted. That's, that is that's where
we're at here, right? Dating apps really do provide or
create or cause a very unique form of Trump in that it it can
(07:31):
trigger a lot of different kindsof of wounds.
It can trigger your anxiety and anxious attachment style.
It can trigger abandoned wounds,It can trigger rejection
sensitivity dysphoria. That was one of the reasons why
I really didn't like up until I met Dawn, because I met Dawn on
OkCupid up until I met him, I was so anxious about using
(07:55):
dating apps because of my rejection sensitivity dysphoria.
And this is very common with people with ADHD where we
perceive things to a more intensely than again, it's sort
of a, a disproportionate reaction to a stimuli.
And and I couldn't those dating apps whenever somebody would
ghost or I wouldn't get a match back.
(08:17):
It was just constant, constant that rejection sensitivity being
triggered. Well, and like, that's most of
the experience of the apps, right?
Most of it is rejection, right? Hopefully on both sides, but
yeah, most of it is rejection. Right, but there's rejection of
this person didn't respond to me, them's the breaks.
That's how this goes. And then there's repeatedly
(08:40):
having people ghost you, match you, matching with, matching
with somebody, only for them to not respond to your message or
not respond with any real effortbecause they never really looked
at your profile. People are.
So they're so burnt out and cynical about it that they're
(09:00):
saying, I am not going to investany more time than I have to in
this process. And that in and of itself is the
problem because finding somebody, finding a substantive
real connection requires A willingness to risk, to take a
risk, to make yourself vulnerable.
And people are are saying I'm not doing that anymore.
(09:22):
So. I think you have to go in with
the expectation that like eventually, well, either it will
eventually work, meaning you'll you'll find a long term partner
or whatever you're looking for, or if it doesn't work, at least
it'll be fun. Like you have to go in with that
expectation and it seemed seems like people don't expect it to
work anymore and so they're doing everything begrudgingly.
(09:43):
Absolutely, and they don't expect it to work anymore,
sadly, because this doesn't work.
No, it really doesn't. I mean the switch from apps
rather to apps from dating sites.
Like probably the worst thing that ever happened to daters.
It really, it really is because we were already, we were already
determining compatibility and attraction on A1 dimensional
(10:06):
representation. But dating apps, it's like
almost half dimensional representation.
Well, not only that, but the wood the way the apps are
designed in order to keep getting your business, they
don't want you to be successful in dating.
Right, every once in a while that it's going to work out
because they they need, they need some success, right?
(10:26):
They need something. And This is why I saw somebody,
some guy wrote a comment on, on threads saying nothing, nothing
will damage myself esteem more than looking at who's liked me
on Bumble or Hinge. And when I tell you, I went to
this guy's profile and threads and I thought, Sir, Sir, I sent
(10:49):
you his picture. You did.
I did OK Sir. I wrote a comment and I said,
you know, typically these these apps are designed to to inspire
or encourage aspirational swiping because we get more
attention on these apps than we would offline.
Offline, we have a bunch of different criteria that factor
(11:11):
into our determination. If we find someone attractive or
if we think there's potential compatibility, because we can
determine personality or get a sense of it, we can get a little
bit of sense of their character.We can just see more than just
some photos and some words. And so on a dating app, we get
more attention. It may not be attention from
people that we want, but it's still, it still makes us believe
(11:37):
that we are in higher demand than we might actually be.
Doesn't mean you're not. Did a man concluded that,
though? A man concluded what that it
affects. His higher demand than he is in
2025 especially it's it's just aweird conclusion for him to
draw. I would also love to see who
he's matching with because I mean, you know, the one
redeeming thing about his post is he didn't give us any
(11:59):
examples. He didn't, he didn't embarrass
anyone, thank God. But I mean, currently some of
them are firmly within his league.
Right, but see we on dating appswe overestimate.
But also, this is what I meant about aspirational they
encourage us to swipe up well, don't they?
(12:20):
Also like if a profile is doing well, getting a lot of
attention, don't they? They like promote it by showing
more people that profile, right?Right, right.
Because it is. That's what the algorithm does.
It really, really does pay attention to who's getting the
most likes, who's the most engaged, etcetera, etcetera.
So these dating apps are creating this false sense of
(12:42):
this abundance, making us think we have more more options than
we might actually have. It's making us think that we're
more attractive, so to speak, than than than we might be.
Now I want to talk about that point a little, a little bit
more because what I think is so interesting about that point and
it used, you said in your comment, it was a little bit
(13:04):
dated at this point, right? It's from like 2018 or 19,
right? That study on in Washington
Post. About how people overestimate
their address. Yes, OK, I think.
I think that's a key detail because since 2018-2019, it's
not like people are using fewer filters, you know what I'm
saying? Yeah.
So. So I I actually have been
(13:28):
reading this book called Pixel Flesh, which is basically about
how being online distorts the body image of women and girls in
particular. It's not about men, thank God,
but it makes us feel worse. And isn't it interesting that
conversely, men feel like they're more attractive than
they are when the more time women spend online, the more we
(13:49):
get body dysphoria? Right, but isn't.
But doesn't that, I mean, that makes sense, doesn't it?
You know, men are Men can use anything to make themselves feel
better about themselves. I mean literally men are seeing
more filtered images of women than they ever have before and
not thinking critically about them.
(14:11):
Right. They're they're just concluding
that's what women ought to look like.
And so then when you show up on a date with pores, they're like.
You're supposed to look like a dolphin.
Right. Right.
Anyway. Look kind of exaggerating.
Like I think that is men's expectation now.
Kind of like it's like an extension of like, I don't like
a lot of makeup. I like natural looking women.
(14:33):
And then they show you a pictureof Kylie Jenner, right?
Make it make sense. Or they yeah, they show a
picture of a woman with the no makeup makeup, Right, Right.
No, that's, that's still makeup.Do you think her eyelids are
that pink? Are you really?
But to go back to the to the guywho wrote the text, he, I feel
like in this case, and with a lot of men, they feel like if
(14:56):
you can't make me feel wanted, then I'll make you fear me or,
or resent me, right. If they can't feel wanted,
they'll they'll settle for beingfeared.
Right. But that explains all those guys
in the comments of women's Instagram, social media, Tik
Toks. This is where they interact with
(15:18):
women. And since they can't get any
real attention or validation, they'll settle for the fear and
the resentment. Because it's still attention,
that's how. That's how much their
masculinity is tied to female attention.
I mean, it's their whole sense of self I would say.
Like if you need that badly to be perceived, my dude.
(15:40):
Right. And therapy.
Let's be clear, we're talking about men who date women here,
right? Let's see.
The other thing is they were never taught how to process
rejection without turning it into revenge, right?
We were always taught that we needed to be gracious if we lost
something, right? That we needed to be be polite,
(16:04):
be gracious, don't react becausethen people will think XYZ of
you. Men.
Men and weren't taught that, andthey also weren't taught shamed.
I think they're starting to learn that now, finally.
Well, I don't like it. No, not at all.
Not at all. They're responding with anger.
Think think they're starting to get shamed.
A little, yes. And when they do end up feeling
(16:27):
that shame, they want to offloadit on to the woman.
Yeah, usually there's a an excuse.
Yes, but the other problem too is they feel entitled to a
woman's emotional labor even if they're the cause.
So he's this guy is the one who ghosted and he says to her and
he doesn't think twice about it.Unmatch me, Sir.
(16:48):
You do it right. Doesn't think twice about trying
to put that on her. That's amazing to me.
It I mean, it doesn't surprise me, but these are the things and
was I want to hear about the male loneliness epidemic.
Yeah, This is why. This is why because you have not
you have not learned how to process your emotions in a
(17:09):
healthy way. You want to share something with
you? Absolutely, I love a good share.
This is This is a quote from thebook Writers and Lovers, which
is by Lily King. Here it is.
Nearly every guy I've dated believed they should already be
famous, believed that greatness was their destiny and they were
already behind schedule. An early moment of intimacy
(17:31):
often revealed a confession of this sort, a childhood vision, a
teacher's prophecy, a genius IQ.At first, with my college
boyfriend, I believed it too. Later I thought I was just
choosing delusional men. Now I understand.
It's how boys are raised to think and how they are lured in
into adulthood. I've met ambitious women, driven
(17:52):
women, but no woman has ever told me that greatness was her
destiny. It's true, every bit of it.
And now I want to read that book.
It's. Really good.
What's the name of it again? That quote obviously step with
me. What's what's the name of it
again? It is from Writers and Lovers by
Lily Keogne. Nice.
OK, Yeah. I mean, I'm not surprised to see
a response like this from a man.This is how they deal with
(18:14):
rejection. And of course they're going to.
They're going to lash out, but this kind of treat is why people
are leaving dating apps. It's why women are off men,
right? Diminishing returns at this
point. It really is.
It really is. There's no return on investment
for women to use dating apps. And that's unfortunate because
(18:35):
it used to be a really productive way to meet somebody.
But it's become so toxic. That frustration and the
bitterness on both sides has just, it's just, boy, it just
has come to a breaking point, toa boiling point.
And now dating apps are there. They're hemorrhaging.
I don't think it helps at all either that it seems like women
(18:57):
are starting to value marriage alot less.
Like, simultaneous to being put off dating, there's a lot of
discourse right now about how even the best marriages are
never 5050. True, yes.
We're a long way from that now. It's funny that you brought up
marriage because if you're on TikTok, and I don't know if this
(19:17):
has crossed over into Instagram,there was a viral video from a
woman named Courtney Joelle who was teaching women about staying
in their feminine energy and howto get Princess treatment.
And at first, the first time I saw it, I thought maybe she was
an actual Princess, like she wastalking about royalty.
(19:40):
Oh, interesting. When I was hearing this, well,
he drives me up to the restaurant.
He gets out of his car, he opensmy door, He lets me in when I
get in, wherever I am, I don't interact with anybody.
I don't talk to the to the host staff.
They'll sound like a lady in waiting.
And it really does sound as though, OK, don't make eye
contact, don't do this. Wait for your, your handler to
(20:02):
come in and handle the situationand, and you know, handle all
the riffraff, so to speak. And she said, when we sit down,
he orders for me. And the wait staff, you know, I,
I think a lot of the wait staff,they wonder if, you know, I'm
like being oppressed. And for sure they'll they'll
keep trying to get her to answerand she'll either just look at
(20:22):
her husband or she won't give really full answers until.
They pick up the hint. That's bananas.
What I thought was really strange, she's on vacation.
Did you notice how she never wears any color?
Everything's white. With her fish.
Whiter beige. Like she wear black?
She wore black with her her bathing suit.
(20:43):
That's probably because it was more flattering, right?
She's got very, very, very fair skinned, so a black bathing suit
would look better on her than a white bathing suit, do you
think? Could that be the reason?
I don't know. I just know she wears black
sometimes. She's like she'll she'll wear
black to do Pilates. It's just, it's wild to me
because we've talked about we, we've talked about cults before
(21:05):
and how they tend to dress alikeand there's almost a uniform,
feels like a uniform. I think it is uniform.
Right. Do you think she's?
Do you think this is satire? I don't think it's satire, but I
think it might be a kink. I think it's not what she's
telling us it is. I think there's no way she
behaves like that at a restaurant.
There's no way. No, of course not.
(21:26):
Of course, of course not. But that's, that's what I'm
saying. There's something about this
that doesn't seem real to me. There's something.
I think it's heightened for social media.
For sure, definitely. And I, I think this is a woman
posturing to, I don't, I don't know if she's a Mormon.
I, I'm going to guess not because they moved from New
York, but it seems like a woman posturing and performing kind of
(21:49):
for her own entertainment, but also because now there's
potential to monetize it becauseshe's gone viral, right?
But then also for other women inUtah, because these trad wives,
man, everything is a competition.
This strikes me as a woman trying to convince herself that
she's happy, first of all. And then I think she is clever.
(22:09):
So I think, you know, she realizes, like, oh, if I can
seize on this moment, I can makea little bit of money.
And why not? Yeah.
And OK like girl get your bag. I just wish she wasn't pushing
such a toxic message. I mean, I have to agree, but it,
it is the moment, right? I mean, we've, we've swung way
the hell back to the right. We really have.
(22:32):
She really seems very alone. She really does.
Yeah, like just profoundly alone.
But I do I wonder how much of that is that his doing or is
that her? I don't know.
Or is it Utah in? Utah, right?
I don't know, but her name's Courtney Joelle.
You can follow her. I would love to hear what people
(22:53):
think about this person and see if they see anything that you
know that we kind of picked up on.
You can leave it in the comments.
Please leave us your feedback. Moving on Sarah, so I told you
about a, a social media post that I saw from a woman who said
that she'd been dating somebody for about 6 weeks and he had not
(23:15):
tried to be physically intimate with her.
And her friend was warning her saying that's that's really a
red flag. And so she posts this on social
media and saying my, my friend said that this is, is a red
flag. But I, but I don't know, you
know, he, he hasn't made any basically attempts.
She says I have made innuendos, which he has responded to and
(23:39):
said I always make him smile andlaugh.
And he called me gorgeous a couple of days ago.
Listen, this, this is what bothers me.
This is the red flag for me. And it's not that he hasn't
tried to sleep with her because we're in a time where physical
intimacy for women is, is literally could be fatal, right.
So I want to say he's being respectful, he just needs more
(24:01):
time. He's just somebody who needs to
have an emotional connection. Great.
What bothers? Also note that this woman is
English, so. Is that sex?
Is a little lower stakes for herthan in for Americans, but.
OK, OK, Fairpoint, that's reallysmart.
But here's the thing. She said, and I don't know if
she said this after writing thiscomment or I don't know when she
(24:21):
said it, but she said I suggested to him that we go away
for a couple of days, and he jumped at the opportunity.
Here's what's bothering me. And it's not that he's not
trying to sleep with her. It's that she doesn't know if
this man is attracted to her or not.
It's been six weeks. That concerns me.
What also concerns me is why areyou having to do these little
(24:43):
things? Yeah, to elicit some kind of
validation from him. I mean, I wouldn't call it
inviting him on a trip a little thing, right?
Let's go away for a couple of nights.
That's a man. That's a big commitment for
someone you haven't even slept with yet.
It sure is, but also who's paying for it?
You're going to expect him to pay for it?
You offered I. Don't know, right?
(25:04):
This is what I mean, and This iswhy I'm always please don't ask
men out, please don't initiate stuff like this.
And it has nothing to do with power or control or any of that
bullshit. It has to do with you want to be
able to see, you want to be ableto gauge what you're dealing
with. And if you're the one initiating
and you're the one doing the work, you're never going to
(25:25):
know, is he with me because he cares about me?
Or is he with me because I'm I'mlow efforts and he's using me as
a placeholder? Now it's been six weeks.
We don't know how many dates that is.
OK, I think she said. They go out a couple times a
week. Okay, I don't see that in the
initial post, but that's fine. Six weeks, we don't, we don't
(25:45):
really know how much time they've spent together.
We don't know what the activities have been, so we
don't know how the relationship has been progressing.
Like if they've been to 3 moviesand three concerts, they've
barely had a chance to talk, right?
Right. But still.
When I was dating, I assumed that men knew about and were
operating in accordance with thethree day rule, which at this
(26:06):
point is antiquated, so I'm going to explain what it is.
There used to be the expectationthat you were going to have sex
on the third date. Either round, children, let's
talk about ye oldie times. Exactly.
Thankfully that seems to have disappeared that expectation,
right? Yes.
But I think now that it has, it's made it much harder for men
(26:30):
and women to tell whether the other party is interested in
them. Because if honestly, if you're
not being crass, if you're not being touchy, I guess I
shouldn't say crass. If you're not being flirty, if
you're not being touchy like youcan, you can be so respectful
that the other person just doesn't know where your head's
at. Putting off physical intimacy.
I'm wondering, is this one of those men or people who think as
(26:54):
long as I'm not having sex I'm not cheating?
OK, maybe. Yeah, that's certainly a
possibility. Right.
So that's. Certainly, and I would say
that's even more likely than he's just too respectful.
Listen, I, I do really, I want to give this person, this guy
the benefit of the doubt and sayhe's just taking his time.
(27:15):
But you can take your time and still make sure the person
you're dating knows you desire them or that you're attracted to
them. It's the fact that she doesn't
know that really concerns me. I think she.
He might think he's putting signals out there and she might
not be picking them up. That's certainly possible.
(27:37):
I don't think it's as likely as,you know, some more unfortunate
explanation. What I actually think is
probably happening, most likely is that he's having sex
somewhere else. Absolutely.
And he's happy to go on dates with her because he's getting
sex right somewhere else, right?And as long as he's juggling at
least two women, right, Good enough time, right?
(28:00):
He doesn't need to be having sexwith all of them, right?
It gives him time to decide who,if any, he wants to eventually
commit to. That's what I think is happening
probably. Yeah, I, I definitely think she
is not the only person that he is interacting with or dating or
communicating with. And I think there's a chance
he's already in a relationship and he's doing that thing of,
(28:23):
like we said, the monkey who they won't let go of 1 branch,
they have a firm grasp on the new one.
Yeah. So he could be doing that.
He could be making sure he had he has someplace soft to land
when the relationship does end. Well, Speaking of like going
from branch to branch, he might not even be doing that.
He might just be using her for emotional labor.
That is a thing that I don't think women realize.
(28:46):
Men will be in a relationship with you simply for the
emotional labor and the free therapy.
Yeah, because they don't talk totheir friends.
No, of course not. And they need that in their
lives. Life again, here we go.
Because they haven't been taughthow to be vulnerable.
They're not comfortable with it unless it's with a woman.
Well. Dating probably is cheaper than
(29:07):
therapy. Well, maybe, maybe not, but I
want to correct what I just said.
They're they're only comfortablebeing vulnerable with women.
It's when they choose to be vulnerable, they choose when to
be vulnerable. There are some like in a
situation where I'm hurt you didn't react to this test that
you didn't know I was, you know that I was I was putting you
putting putting on you. And then there's when they
(29:29):
choose to it, you know, they need to unload about something
going on with their family or something from their childhood
or whatever. It's their ex, their job, right,
right, right. And they will absolutely use
women for that kind of emotionallabor and that kind of free
therapy because all they care about it.
Am I getting something out of this?
(29:49):
Oh, the idea of women's currency.
Who, you know, if you just are aman out with a woman, other men
see that. And that's a that's a form of
clout, right? And that, that ties into their
masculinity, right? That's really what it's all
about. That's very often what male
female friendships are about. For men, I think it's just like
(30:11):
they need to be around women. They need it, and that's an
added bonus. They get free emotional labor.
Right. Let me ask you, let's be, let's
be honest, it's, it's fine to say the politically correct,
sensitive thing here, right? Of maybe he's just getting to
know her. Do you think it's weird that
he's not trying to have sex withher?
(30:32):
Absolutely. Right, it is.
It is weird and I and I don't, Idon't want to say that.
I want to say he's just trying to be a good guy, but there's
something off here. I don't find this, you know, all
the men in the comments. Well, maybe he's just, he likes
to take his time and right. And I feel like you're all just
(30:53):
pandering to this woman. That's all you're doing.
Yeah, for sure. Right, so.
It's also, you know, in the bestinterest of all men if they work
together to not teach us anything useful about men,
right? Because then we, we stay on the
hook, we continue tolerating shitty behavior.
It's. Yeah, I don't know this.
This feels very so. That's why they're gassing her
(31:15):
up here, yes, and telling her toto stay on the on the line.
But also they see a vulnerable woman and they're just right
there. They're they're always in,
They're vulnerable woman adjacent.
But to me there is. Still a chance, Kristen, that
there's nothing weird going on here and it's just two people.
(31:36):
Taking. Their tongue in their time, but
also probably be there's some miscommunication.
And that's possible too. The only reason I believe it OK,
I I still maintain that like most likely explanation is not
good. It's not oh, he's just a great
guy. He's very respectful.
(31:57):
But I did one time meet a guy who I was very confused by.
I was talking to all my friends.I was like, and are we, am I his
friend? Like, yeah, what is up?
Is he gay? Is he a virgin?
That's another possibility. That's a possibility too.
But I was like, you know, we've been on X number of dates, we're
(32:18):
having a good time. We keep going on dates.
But like, he's just not making amove.
And then later found out that inhis view, I wasn't putting out
any signals, that I was open to it.
So like, we just kept going on dates because we were in fact
having a good time and he was just waiting for a clearer
signal from me. OK but this this falls under men
(32:41):
struggle to read social cues. Well, you've also told me that
I'm difficult to read. You are.
Exceptionally difficult to read.But I'm not, so you want no one
to sleep with me either. So I'm going to assume that
other women are also difficult to read.
Yeah, maybe, maybe. Well, yeah, I could see that
because we have so mindful of what we don't want to do this
(33:02):
because then we might be seen asthis way or we might be, I don't
want to be too this. And we're so in our heads about
it. We're afraid to be flirty and
we're we're afraid to be flirty because we don't know what we
might what might occur if we if we, if that, you know, if we end
up not being attracted to them. It's so fraught.
Well, it's also this situation where now their energies are
(33:25):
feeding off of each other, right?
She thinks he should take the lead, right?
Again, we're going to hypothetically give him the
benefit of the doubt. He's trying to be respectful.
He's waiting for some kind of sign.
She's not getting a sign from him.
So like, she's not being flirty because she's not being flirty.
Like trying even less. Somebody's just got to either
(33:46):
use their words. Actually, that's it.
Somebody's got to use their words.
I was going to say or make a move, but I don't think you
should do that without consent. I think, you know, it's 2025.
Just ask like we keep going out right?
I noticed we're not having sex. It's not about.
Right. And if you're, if you're
comfortable enough making this public and taking the risk of
(34:07):
having a bunch of strangers say things hurtful to you, then you
should be comfortable enough to say to this person who is
supposed to care about you and is supposed to not want to hurt
you. You should, you should feel
comfortable asking him. It's that she doesn't feel
comfortable. That's what bothers me.
That's what. Bothers me again.
I I had that third date expectation in my mind right
(34:29):
when I was in this situation. Third date came and went.
I don't happen to remember how many dates I went on before I
started asking my friends what they thought was up here, but I
can tell you that the situation only resolved because I just
asked the man. Like, hey, I noticed we keep
going on dates, right? That's sick.
What's that about? I think that's exactly what I
(34:51):
said actually. And he said, see, he put it on
you, and I don't like that. Why couldn't he?
I don't hear what you're saying about yeah, with that point, but
I also hear what you're saying when you tell me that I'm
difficult to read. I have to just assume that some
people find me difficult to read.
Fair fairpoint. All right.
(35:12):
Do you know how this resolved? Well, you do, but do you want to
share? Do you want me to share on the
pod how this resolved? What resolved?
This situation with this when I was in it.
Oh yeah, please tell us. Well.
Like I said, I, I used my words and that then it was like you
just, yeah, you weren't sure if I and I wasn't sure if you.
Well, then the floodgates are open.
(35:34):
Then you start having sex and it's fine.
Yeah. And then we got married.
OK, all right, son of a bitch. But I I literally left my first
date with my now husband thinking he straight up hated me
because. He straight up hated.
I thought he straight up hated me, not because of anything that
(35:54):
happened on the date about because the date concluded with
a handshake. I'm sorry, that is so cute
though. It's very funny in retrospect.
Obviously still talk about it sometimes, right?
But he's home so we can bring him on.
I don't know if you want to hearhis point of view here.
He has said to me, like, we literally just met and it was
lunch. Like, what was I supposed to do?
(36:15):
Like, I think that's a fairpoint.
All right, make sure you're following us on Worth the Wait
show on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok.
If you want to send in your dating questions, send them to
hello@datologycoach.com com or just go to dataologycoach.com to
submit the question. If you want not just our recaps
on and just like that, but advice or feedback that we think
is maybe a little too spicy for the public feed, go to
(36:38):
patreon.com/worth the Wait show and subscribe.
And remember, you can listen to the podcast on YouTube, Spotify,
iTunes, Amazon Music Overcast and please, please, please rate
US five stars on Spotify blog. Witches, Warlocks, days, value
your time, decent men and centeryourself.
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