September 9, 2025 • 42 mins
Dating while neurodivergent can feel like playing a game where everyone else got the rulebook and you’re improvising. This week, Sarah and I sit down with Brit, an autism specialist, to unpack the real challenges (and surprising strengths) of dating with ADHD, autism, and beyond. From oversharing to rejection sensitivity, overstimulation to ghosting, we get into what’s really happening under the surface—and how to date with more clarity, grace, and self-compassion.
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Timestamps:
00:00 – Late-in-life diagnoses & light bulb moments
03:00 – Social cues, sarcasm & sensory overload
08:30 – Oversharing vs. undersharing: finding the middle
19:50 – Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria in dating
23:30 – Anger, patriarchy & rejection
25:20 – Limerence: when crushes tip into obsession
30:00 – Ghosting, texting back & repair strategies
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:10):
Worth the Wait podcast. Hi, Sarah.
Hi. Guess what, Sarah, what?
We have a special guest today. We do, we do, we do.
And I'm very excited because this is a topic that we've been
touching on more, especially since you and I both being
diagnosed later in life with ADHD.
We are going to talk to a specialist, an expert in the
(00:34):
field. We're going to call her doctor
Britt. We're we're going to talk about
dating while neurodivergent. So, Britt, do you want to just
tell us a little bit about your background?
Sure. Hi, thank you for having me.
I appreciate you both. So you can just call me Britt.
Doctor Britt's fine. But my background, I am an
autism specialist so I've workedwith folks with disabilities for
(00:57):
over 15 years. Autism specifically is my niche.
Not only do I cover dating whileneurodiverse, I also teach life
skills and social skills for adults with disabilities.
And that can range anywhere from, you know, navigating
finances and budgeting to livingindependently.
And dating goes along with that as well.
(01:17):
So that's that's where I am in that field.
And I run a nonprofit for adultswith disabilities.
Wow, thank you. I'm just, I'm so grateful, so
happy to to have you here. Thank you for making time.
You know, my recent diagnosis, it it kind of thanks to Sarah,
thanks to a text message from Sarah.
(01:39):
She's like, you know, I think some of these things that you're
not able to do, I, I, I think it's ADHD and I'm like, huh,
Yeah. I.
Remember diagnosing you via text.
Sorry, or you did or you did andand I was like wait a minute,
really? Could that OK?
And then I made the appointment with my therapist and I was
(02:00):
like, can we talk about this? And it really, it answered a lot
of questions. It made me realize, oh, oh,
that's why. Oh, yeah.
It's sort of like those just A1 continuous light bulb moment.
Yes. And what now?
In your experience, what do you think are the more common
(02:24):
challenges of dating while neurodivergent?
Well, thank you for sharing thatpart of your story.
I think when adults, especially adult women are diagnosed later
in life, they're it kind of a light bulb turns on and it
starts highlighting all the moments in your, your timeline
of that's why I did that, right?And that's why that person
(02:47):
reacted that way. Right.
And that can be a really beautiful moment.
And that allows room for forgiveness.
And then you can start building on, OK, so these were, you know,
these were ADHD behaviors or autistic behaviors, and now
people felt this way about them.And those feelings are also
valid. But now I need to know, know how
to navigate my neurodivergence myself.
(03:09):
So yeah, it is. It's almost like a second
adolescence in a way. I'm figuring out how to adult as
a neurodivergent person. Yeah.
It it can be illuminating and scary and fulfilling all at the
same time. Now, what are the more common
challenges that we that we encounter?
(03:29):
The most common challenges wouldbe reading social cues, right?
I think that's the first thing that we're going to think of
when we think of the word neurodivergent.
Or are we thinking of the word autistic?
Just misinterpretations of what flirting is someone being nice
or are they being flirty? Especially sarcasm.
Sarcasm can be used as a conversation builder, a
(03:49):
friendship strengthener. And if someone doesn't
understand sarcasm, it can meet make people feel a little hurt.
Body language is also another big one.
So all of those things are tied into the social cues to me would
be the top contender for the whydating is so challenging.
I don't feel that I have that issue.
(04:12):
OK, Is that now? Is that more common with odd
ADHDADHD autism? So if you were diagnosed
strictly with ADHD and not autism, usually folks with ADHD
can understand social cues in the moment.
(04:32):
It's about what their body and their mouths and are doing in
that moment. So they know what's going on.
It's just how are they responding to it in a socially
appropriate way. The most common thing that I see
with ADHD folks is they understand what was happening
and they go back home and then they start self reflecting.
(04:54):
So if they're at home self reflecting, they're going to be
like, oh man, why did I say that?
Because with ADHD there's a lot of anxiety because you, there's
impulse control and you can't control what you're saying and
doing. And then later on when you're in
a more calm space, you're like that that was probably
misinterpreted. Then you, that's when you pick
up your phone, you text your friend and be like, Hey, I
(05:14):
didn't mean it this way, by the way.
And your friend's like, what? I didn't take it that way.
Or they're like, oh, I'm glad you clarified that.
Yeah. So at least in my journey as an
ADHD person, there's a lot of circling back to a previous
social encounter that I've had of making sure that I was
interpreted correctly in the waythat I I wanted to be
interpreted. And that can be very exhausting
(05:36):
in and of itself as someone withADHD, which is also why people
avoid social socializing, right?Right.
Because then you're like, well, it's an extra work.
I enjoy going out. I enjoy spending time with
people. But then if I slip up, if I say
something, if I'm constantly policing myself, I'm going to
then have to be on my phone later on and have another
(05:57):
conversation. So it's like a 2 for one outing.
Now, a word that we hear a lot that I say a lot is
overstimulated, right? And so does the overstimulation.
Is that what leads to? I would think that's what leads
to the lack of impulse control. Yeah, So if we were talking
about common challenges, if reading social cues is the first
(06:19):
one, I would consider sensory sensitivities to be the second.
That's where you get the word overstimulated from loud bars,
loud restaurants, strong perfume, someone's dressing up
for a date. They, they lather on too much
Cologne or perfume, it could setthe whole mood off right?
Unexpected social touches. So if someone's communicating
(06:40):
and they are, you know, we're having a back and forth
conversation and it might be like feel really good.
And there's that person that's always like, ha ha, ha.
And they touch your like leg in in like a gesture of getting to
know you. That can be off putting.
So these these are considered like sensory and over
stimulating things. So if you're in a loud bar
trying to get to know someone you, it's going to be a
challenge because you're worriedabout the sounds, the clinking
(07:02):
of glasses, the lighting, the music.
I have to yell a little bit louder to have a conversation.
It can be very over stimulating.You're also trying to read
social cues in an environment that's hard to read social cues.
So you're it's, it's, it's like a double whammy.
I have to jump in here and pointout, or I guess rather ask
(07:22):
Britt, are you aware of the I think it's an app.
It's either an app or a website,but it you can you can like
search for any restaurant or barand it will tell you how loud it
is. Before you go not what is that
app called? I'm going to have to ask my my
friend that introduced me to it because we look at it every time
we meet up. An.
(07:44):
Appropriate place and I'll, I'llsend it to you and we'll put it
in the show. Notes too, please.
Please do. Yeah.
And, you know, five years ago, maybe 10 years ago, these were
not things that we were considering during the process,
right? We weren't thinking about the
overstimulation. We weren't thinking about the
(08:04):
social Choose. Dating apps present such a
challenge for people who are neurodivergent, and we never
really thought about it. Yeah, I think it's double edged
sword. So if we're going with another
challenge is communication differences, right?
So some people prefer direct communication, which can be
(08:25):
misunderstood or misconstrued asbluntness.
Other people really prefer to not rock the boat and have like
a even keeled conversation. You take that preference and put
it on to a screen where people have to use emojis and lols
after the end of a sentence or like making sure that you have a
(08:46):
proper greeting and an ending inthe end of your your text
message or even e-mail or whatever.
That's a whole other social dynamic that is then translated
to an online platform. And I say it's a double edged
sword because unlike being in person where you have to think
on the fly and have a, a response almost right away, the
(09:06):
the silver lining to online dating is you can think about
your responses a little bit and tailor them.
But that can still be exhausting.
Like, oh, I'm trying to online date, but then I, this is what I
mean to say. But now I have to put a softener
in there or put an emoji in there so they don't think I'm
serious. Cause tone is important in
texting and communicating and often times conveying tone
(09:29):
through those is is a challenge for folks.
Let's say they're exchanging messages with somebody and they
find themselves getting overstimulated.
What do you recommend that they do?
I think the first step would be whoever you are on the date with
knows that that could be a potential that happens, right?
Because we're socialized that ifsomebody needs to get up and
have space or walk outside to dosome breathing or go to the
(09:52):
bathroom when they don't have togo to the bathroom, they just
need a break, that those are signs of disinterest in the date
itself. Mm hmm.
So if it's communicated beforehand, like, hey, I might
have a challenge with ABC and D,but I'm working on it.
In the event that that happens, I'm going to let you know.
Mm hmm. And I'm going to tell you in the
moment and then I'll be back in 5 minutes to take a breather.
(10:16):
I think it's very important not to have a sensory overload
meltdown at a table or in front of that person in the moment.
And that puts them, it already imbalances the relationship and
already puts them in a role of caretaker.
And that is something we want toavoid when we're going into
dating on the diverse. That you're not trying to date a
caretaker or another guardian totake care of you.
(10:37):
That you're trying to find an equal partner.
Now when you're in terms of verbal communication, are there
any sort of behaviors that we should look out?
For behaviors. Meaning oversharing or
interrupting or too many details.
Yeah. Yes.
(10:58):
And now is that is that does that fall under neurodivergence?
Is that is that only under autism or odd age ADHD?
Oh no, that is, that is across the board nerd.
Alright, that makes now more makes sense more and more life.
Yeah, yeah, it's explains virtually everybody you see
(11:20):
online. Right.
Yes, Yep. In fact, almost every person
that I've met with a disability either over shares or under
shares, they don't tell me enough information, which I
like. I need more from you or they
tell me too much information being like that's where we value
secrets, right? We don't need to share that part
(11:40):
far of our interests right now. And you know, and the the good
spot is in the middle somewhere,you know, we build up to sharing
those things. But yeah, that is across the
board. That's a very common nerd
avergent. Well, and the same person could
do both right at at various times.
(12:02):
They could do both at various times, yes.
We could share nothing. And then all of all of a sudden,
you know everything about their life.
The woman was talking about herself.
Sex and the City call back and just like that call back.
Now what would cause the under sharing?
I've never heard that. A past rejection anxiety a lot
(12:28):
of times there's comorbidity with autism, ADHD, OCD and
anxiety. So the anxiety of sharing
because people have then either made fun of me or people have
ghosted me or or I said something and then I had to
circle back and have another conversation of about how I came
(12:49):
across the wrong way. Those things would cause people
be like, oh, the best place, best thing I can do is just
under share. And then I know I'm not going to
offend somebody because I didn'tsay anything.
The problem with that is then sometimes people interpret that
with you didn't share a lot. You don't come out to these
things. Do you like us?
Do you? Do you like me?
You're not talking a lot. And yeah, it's it's a balance.
(13:12):
It's a balance. And we're asking all of our
neurodivergent folks to do this that is supposed to supposedly
come naturally to humans and also human and do adult things
at the same time. So, you know, it is it becomes
very overwhelming. And, and there are a lot of
executive functioning barriers that are, are interest mixed in
that that is just going to be very preventative from them
(13:36):
being able to access this datingfield.
And, and I'll extend that to, tofriendships as well.
Yeah. Can I, can I add something about
undersharing too? Yes.
I, I feel like in addition to just past, you know, experience
negative usually over intellectualizers may tend to
(13:59):
undershare. Yeah.
And here I'm, I'm thinking, you know, more broadly about like
all neurodivergence. I'm not, you know, thinking of
anyone. Specific diagnosis, yeah,
Undersharers too. And this is not everyone,
undershares often have trauma aswell.
OK, there we go. That's where we.
(14:20):
Are exactly that's exactly whereI was going.
Now my background is trauma recovery.
And do you find that PTSD is is a common comorbidity?
It is. And what I've noticed especially
adults that are diagnosed later in life, they are going to have
(14:44):
trauma and and there's a reason why they're diagnosed later in
life. It wasn't caught for some reason
where whether they were able to mask Kylie, whether they were a
very good academic performer. So it was not on anyone's radar
generationally if they're of a certain age, it was just people
(15:05):
weren't paying attention to it. Parents weren't really attuned
to their child to notice those or parents were also
neurodivergent. So they wouldn't, weren't able
to like see differences in milestone development with their
child. And through this, a, the child,
an autistic child, an ADHD childbuilds coping mechanisms and
coping strategies for survival. And then those get blended in
(15:25):
with their neurodivergence. And now the big work, especially
if therapist is pulling apart what are trauma responses and
what are autistic responses. So a lot of times when I've
worked with older adults with autism, they're saying I'm
autistic and This is why I did that.
And I was like, whoa, whoa. That is a trauma response,
executive dysfunction or communication differences.
(15:47):
Those can be worked on in in like a social skills development
type thing type neurodivergent framework, but trauma based
practices need to be separate from that.
Now, oversharing is also a trauma response, right?
It it can be. It can be, yeah.
(16:08):
And so how do you differentiate between oversharing that is a
trauma response and oversharing that is from neurodivergence?
Is it the narrative that we attach to it?
I think it's more of why is thatperson oversharing?
The thing that I look for is if someone's oversharing because
it's trauma versus neurodivergence is is there an
(16:31):
anxiety component? OK.
Are they oversharing because every time that they're sharing
information, they're trying to compensate for what they just
shared because they don't want it to be misinterpreted.
So oversharers are usually the ones that are trying to like
Polish up the conversation to make sure that everything leaves
from the table every not misinterpreted so.
(16:56):
So the anxiety component you feel is more present with
neurodivergence? It's more present with trauma.
Oh OK, but most neurodivergent people, especially diagnosed
later in life will have drama. What are some other
comorbidities you would say? Anxiety.
What about? Depression, depression, anxiety,
(17:18):
they go hand in hand are they'reclassic what we stereotype OCD
to be, germs, all that. It could also just be ruminating
on thoughts that could be very like obsessive, like if I do a
certain behaviour, it's going toensure that this social
interaction has gone smoothly. So the obsession and then
compelled to behave in a certainway, that's where it gets it
(17:40):
cleverly gets it's whole name. Other comorbidities would be you
said PTSD earlier. That's a big one.
Bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, those are
common comorbidities that can gowith neurodivergence.
And it's important when we're teaching life skills and social
skills for people with those comorbidities that we're working
(18:04):
from a certain framework. So when I do my work at my
nonprofit, I do like an intake and if someone does have a
comorbidity, it doesn't disqualify them from coming in
to receive services. But I'm very transparent with
the fact that this is a neurodivergent, skill based,
life skills and social social skill based program that I'm
working at from a framework of autism practices.
(18:25):
If someone is coming in and their leading diagnosis is
mental health, then that is a different framework and it a lot
of the work that I do will not transfer over to mental health
because they work on different frameworks.
Now if someone is autistic, has depression and anxiety, but the
primary concerns are with the autism, the framework will work.
(18:48):
But it's when mental health overshadows the neurodivergence
where we have to work from a mental health framework instead.
Got it. Something that I've only
recently become aware of and I again, as soon as I heard of it
I was like Oh my God, that's it.Rejection sensitivity dysphoria.
(19:09):
Can you explain it a little bit?It is common for ADHD folks that
if someone rejects them and thenwe're not even talking about
any, any dating standpoint. But this does qualify for for
that if someone rejects an offering, a social offering or
someone may not be as happy for a gift that this person bought
them. Or even if someone's in school
(19:32):
and they have ADHD and they get criticism on a paper they wrote
or they get a bad grade on a test, that they internalize
those feelings of discomfort into a very heightened emotional
pain. It is a feeling of being
unworthy. A lot of times it recalls people
with ADHD to retreat within themselves to maybe ghost
(19:55):
friends and family and relationships.
They feel disappointing. It's like they catastrophize a
lot. Or they get angry like the first
emotion is anger. Of course, yeah.
You rejected me if you like you know you get you get really
upset and anger is a secondary response.
The primary response if the first go to is anger after being
(20:15):
rejected is I feel anxious, hurtand sad that this happened and
neurotypical people that would get a rejection are going to
feel emotions about it. It's not fun to be rejected.
A person that has ADHD is going to feel it on a more heightened
level. You know, this is a very common
(20:36):
issue that women who date men experience because when they
reject men, so many of these menhave such an extreme reaction.
And whether it's due to ADHD or whether it's due to their own
lack of attunement and and emotional stability, it doesn't
(20:57):
really matter because I wouldn'twant any.
But not I won't say it doesn't matter.
I wouldn't encourage someone to date someone who shows an
extreme anger, regardless of the'cause right?
Yeah, I think, I think that I agree with you.
I think we're talking about two separate things though.
Because men who experience rejection from women and their
(21:17):
reaction is to anger is a resultof a patriarchal system of a a
man feels entitled to women and a woman.
He clarifies that and and statesthat she is an independent
person and does not want this man.
This man who feels entitled feels like this person, this
this woman disobeyed the structure, the order dare you.
(21:40):
And really that anger comes froma deep insecurity that men feel
with women. If we really peel apart the the
anger that men might experience when being rejected from a woman
of interest. OK, take the anger out.
It is You made me feel like a fool, so I feel embarrassed.
I am hurt because I put myself out there.
(22:03):
I am sad because I might feel like I'm going to be alone.
But all of those are matched with anger because that is what
a patriotic society have deemed male emotions appropriate to be.
Right. Happy and angry.
Right. And it's, it's, it's just so
common. I I'll log into any social media
(22:25):
and it's just these, these manifestos from these men and
it, it, it is something this sort of strays from the, from
the topic of neurodivergence. But it is so common to see that
flash of anger from men, right? It's interesting that you say
that, because that is something that we dismantle in the work
that I do with our autistic males as well.
(22:48):
OK. That someone that doesn't pick
up on reading social cues and has communication different
difficulties and executive functioning barriers would
somehow be immune to patriarchalthinking and that is not a case.
No, I don't know if you've been following the Idaho 4 case at
all. Yeah.
I mean, I've read all the reports from all his professors
(23:12):
and I mean, this guy showed all the signs, the absolute rage
towards women. And that's again another topic.
But you know this to I'd love tohear more about how you address
this and break it down. Yeah, well, with males
specifically and autistic men that also result to anger when
(23:37):
they're rejected, it's really important.
What if we figure out why are they so angry?
And usually it comes down to something called limerance.
Limerance, I guess in a nutshell, is the the intense
infatuation or obsessive thoughts or idealization of
idealization of another person. So if you think in terms of ADHD
(24:01):
and autism, a lot of folks with ADHD and autism have a thing
called hyper focus. And when they're interested in
somebody, they will hype that would be their interest.
They will hyper focus on that person.
They will study that person, they will get to know them.
They will laugh at all their jokes.
They will follow them around. If they take a say, we're
talking in a school environment.If they have to go to math class
(24:23):
from science class and it's a straight line to get there, but
there are crushes on the other side of the school, they will go
that direction before they go tomath class that is, and in their
whole like lives are altered andupheaved because of this
limerence. It ties in with OCD, it ties in
with hyper focus and it can be avery dangerous feeling.
(24:47):
And when I work with our folks that do experience this, it is
if someone can rationalize, or Sarah said earlier, the
overthinkers, if they can logic their way out of it.
That has been the best techniquefor my logical thinker so far.
Like, you can have these feelings, but you need to know
that these are a reaction. Burgens is an OverDrive right
(25:08):
now, and your hyper focus is an OverDrive and you need to
constantly put that in check as it's affecting another human
being. And that's where we get into the
problem. Is.
If then they try to get the the object of their desire, in this
case a person, to feel a certainway back from their their every
breath is hinged on if they get a reply back in a text message
(25:30):
or something. Yeah, and and that really is one
of the biggest signs of limerence is, are your moods
completely dependent on the attention that you get or the
response that you get? That is really, I think one of
the clearest signs that someone should look for to to start
realizing, OK, this isn't just Idon't just like this person.
(25:51):
This is this is limerence. This is an an intensity that
maybe I should talk to somebody about.
Yeah, yes. And limerance is patterned
behavior. So the limerance will fade and
they will stop hyper focusing onthe person and the my goal is to
expedite that process. I can't fix the limerance per
(26:13):
SE, but I can shorten it and be like, OK, I was fascinated with
this person for a week and we kind of had a distance and
separation. And if you keep them separated
and have a no contact, it no, itsounds counterintuitive, like
they would just obsess even more.
But when you're looking like with autism, there's a lot of
object permanence. Sometimes they're out of orbit,
(26:36):
then they're out of someone's thought.
And we can work with that and there's strategies during that
time that we can practice to getsomeone out of limerence and
then they're going to jump back into another person.
This like will continues. Can we talk about object
permanence for a second and in regards to dating or just
listen? I don't mean listen, I don't
(26:57):
mean to be. I'm not trying to be rude, but
is if I keep forgetting certain like meetings or appointments,
is that part of object limerance, object permanence,
permanence, object limerance I'mmaking up?
Terms now that is is pretty, pretty close like that would be
(27:21):
it. It's executive functioning,
right? Planning dates, remembering
details, making sure that you'rearriving on time, scheduling all
of that stuff. And then object permanence is,
you know, you have that task of laundry that's just sitting
there and it's uncomfortable to do laundry and you're going to
(27:44):
avoid it because you don't get adopamine, dopamine hit from it.
So it's going to build up until you absolutely have to do the
task or the, the cost of inaction is greater than the
cost of action. So I don't do something, it's
going to be more uncomfortable than if I do it.
And that's usually why we have our ADHD folks procrastinate a
lot. And then in terms of the object
(28:07):
permanence, it is out of sight, out of mind, because there's too
many things I'm dealing with right here, right in my front of
my face. And all the other things on the
periphery kind of go silent. Doesn't mean you don't care
about those things, right? Which means until they're in
your face, they're not on your mind.
Yes, I always, I always had a great memory until the last
(28:28):
couple years and poor Sarah. Sarah, listen, here's an here's
an example. OK, Three weeks ago, she sent me
an e-mail. Hey, I'm going to be going away
on this weekend for this girls trip.
So we should probably talk aboutwhen we're going to record.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then about a week later,
hey, hi. Just a reminder, I'm going to be
(28:50):
going away on this weekend and we probably need to talk about
what day we're going to record. And so the next week on our day
that we're supposed to record, I'm like, hey, are we recording
today? And then it occurred.
I'm like Oh my God Oh my God shesent me this like 3 times.
Yeah, and then Sarah sent you a link to WebMD and it said ADHD.
(29:12):
Now how does that interfere withdating?
Oh, it's, it's, it's, it's, it'sa communication difference,
right? All of these things tie in
executive functioning and, you know, not texting somebody back
or forgetting key important details.
They're all communication stylesand I've seen some folks that
they are, they are pretty decentcommunicators in person.
(29:34):
They they really like talking and then they'll have like you
really enjoy their company and then you don't hear from them
until you see them again in person.
Like they just are gone. Right and.
And I am guilty of this. I know, Sarah.
I, I, yeah, we felt that. My number one thing that I am
working on is texting people back and making sure that they
(30:00):
know that I still care because the other party's feelings were
valid, you know, and that that'sthe, that's a difficult part.
You can't just use the excuse ofI'm autistic, I have ADHD, so I
struggle with these things. Like we all have different
struggles. So someone that's not autistic
or not have ADHD, they're going to struggle with something too.
(30:22):
And it shouldn't be my problem. Right, right.
Yep. You know, these are, you know,
my things that I have to work onare your things or Sarah's
things. And then the other party is
feeling validated in it. What really helps is the
acknowledgement of what occurredand that's where the self
reflection piece comes in. I know that I struggle with
this. I am so sorry.
I will try my best not to make this happen again.
(30:42):
And then there needs to be like a making up process.
Would you recommend to somebody to say just, you know, like I, I
haven't, I sometimes forget things.
I'm going to do everything to make sure that I don't.
But in case I do, please know it's not you that this is
probably a a result of XYZ. Yeah, I think it's good to have
a, a communication with somebodyabout that, especially if they
(31:06):
don't already know because they'll find out the hard way
eventually. But I also think it's important
to not only have grace with, with yourself, but also lead the
other person. I've had people that work around
me that kind of take advantage of the candidness, the
transparency, if that makes sense.
So you want to, you want to use,you know, some intuition and if
(31:29):
that's a person that's to be trusted with a vulnerability of
yours. Right.
And somebody with rejection sensitivity dysphoria, it can be
really overwhelming. How do you recommend somebody
deal with? That in terms of a a dating app,
this is nothing personal. This is what people do when they
(31:52):
are giving a little bit of anonymity where it's easier to
not have a conversation about, hey, I'm just not that into you
and and ghost you. And that can sometimes be a
challenge to understand if someone's a very literal thinker
when we're going into dating apps, it's sometimes a lawless
land. Someone that was you were having
(32:13):
a beautiful conversation with one day might not be there the
next day. And I anybody that I've worked
with that is on dating apps, I always say don't hinge on this
one singular person. Like they also talk to multiple
people. And then the rejection should
come if in the event that you meet someone in person, that's
(32:34):
when you're, I feel like a little bit more valid to have
that online. It's people are going to get
rejected left and right. You're going to have so many
people are going to try to shoota shoot their shot and so many,
there are going to be so many misses.
And so in the event that you getsomebody that does want to have
a conversation with you and doeswant to meet and meet you in
person, that is usually when thethe like the real coaching
(32:58):
begins of all right, so I met with this person and now I
haven't heard from them. What do I do?
So you're, you're sort of recommending you, you got to
coach yourself through this. You have to remind yourself,
this isn't about me. This is something to do with
them. They're one thing that I really
like to say is, especially with online dating, somebody you
(33:18):
haven't met yet, somebody, somebody you've maybe gone out
with once, they're not rejectingyou, they're rejecting A1
dimensional representation of you.
And that's very different. And I found that that was
something that really helped me when I was dating online.
And that's what I always recommend to people is maybe
(33:42):
come up with some mantras that you like.
And when this happens and when you feel that rejection
sensitivity, just repeat them inyour head and you're basically
just trying to ground yourself. I have this one gentleman that I
work with, but he is not the same person online.
He doesn't text in the way that he is.
In person he's a very enjoyable person, but online he's either
(34:06):
aloof or doesn't reply back or just gives thumbs up.
Someone offers information aboutthemselves and he doesn't follow
up in text message and say hey tell me more about that.
Or he jumps to his special interests and wants to talk
about sex too soon. But then in person, he's never
bringing those topics up, right?And and we're like, you are not
(34:28):
the same person. I and I have to like go through
because you know, he'll show me some conversations, he said.
I was like, you are not the sameperson.
Who is this person that you are communicating as?
Because when they meet you, if someone an off chance wants to
meet you, they're like who are you?
Right, right now. What causes that?
(34:51):
Anonymity, the veil of anonymity, and yes,
communication differences to someone that can think out their
thoughts more. But in this instance it's almost
like he thinks less. Like it's only two, three word
answers, but then I'll have a whole conversation in person.
And then, you know, every neurodivergent person is
(35:11):
different in how they communicate.
So I think I should have did a disclaimer at the very beginning
of this. Like this isn't a blanket for
everybody, like body. This is just generalization from
my experience, my research that I've done.
But everyone's going to have a different type of communication
style. And yeah, so, you know, working
with him, I was just like, Goose, this alter ego that you
(35:33):
created. And then we have someone that is
so shy and timid. And like, on the flip side of
it, I have someone that's so shyand timid in person, them on a
screen and they are the most enjoyable, lovely person ever
because they're not in person with you and they can think
about what they're saying and they, you know, they can run
their responses through ChatGPT and send those things to you.
(35:57):
I don't recommend that. It was just that was their thing
for a while. No, we go ahead.
I'm sorry. No, no, go ahead.
Because people are doing that now they're, you know, they're
going to chat CPT Now you don't recommend that, that you we use
chat CPT to write these messages, correct?
(36:17):
That's a different podcast. Yeah, I we were talking about it
before. I have a love hate relationship
with AI. The love part is it is a game
changer for people that do struggle with communicating.
In a way, it's almost like an accommodation, but then it's
horrible for the environment. So it and it's created by humans
(36:44):
and ChatGPT can be biased at times.
And it's starting to have a language of its own where if
you're reading something, you'relike, ah, that's from ChatGPT.
Like that has too many dashes init.
That's a ChatGPT e-mail, you know.
I hate that as a lover of the M-I know.
They've ruined it for me. Like I I'm going to digress a
(37:05):
little. They've ruined it for me because
I used to use that all the time.I was like, love the dash,
right? I love the M dash.
And now I was like, I got to take it out because people are
going to think I wrote this e-mail with Jack D So now I
can't. I've wait a minute.
M-IS the double double lines OK,all right.
(37:27):
As someone with ADHDI, always feel like I need to explain what
I'm meaning in my e-mail. The M dash has helped me.
Right I'm. Green from the M dash, so now I
have to be parenthetical. Justice for the M-I.
Know. Look at the M that's so dirty.
If I do use chachi PT, it's on days when I'm trying to write
(37:48):
something and I just can't. I know what I want to write.
I have all the sentences and I just put it all down and then I
go to ChatGPT and say help me structure this because there are
times when I can't I. Think that is a useful tool for
ChatGPT. I think there are going to be
other there are other systems that can also do that as well.
(38:12):
And I understand why people use it.
I use it when I'm angry and I'm like, this is what I want to
really say and I need to say this somehow to this, like from
this e-mail. Instead of getting all fiery and
ragey back, I'm just like make this worm but also convey my
meaning. Do you not recommend that
neurodivergent people use chat GP to write their messages on
(38:34):
dating apps or their profile? I wouldn't man.
If this was a yes or no question, I'm leaning towards
no, I wouldn't do it. I agree your your voice.
Your voice is so important. Yeah.
We'll go like that. And I, I don't know if you agree
with this point, Britt, so I'm not speaking for both of us
(38:55):
here, but my, my view of this isif you are someone who due to
neurodivergence, anticipates that you're going to have
challenges socially, whatever they are, you, you want to flex
those muscles, don't you? This is why I would never write
anybody's profile for them, because your voice is so
important. It's so important that your
(39:16):
speaking voice matches your writing voice.
We know we can sense that stuff.We especially if you have ADHD
pattern recognition, you can pick up on these these
inconsistencies very quickly. Pattern recognition is a bit of
a superpower for me in terms of I recognize things a little bit
(39:38):
faster than other people. I do a lot of work with true
crime and people are like, how did you get there?
And I'm like it's just my ADHD. A lot of people with ADHD
especially emphasis only age. It is an over attention to
everything all at once which then results in an either
shutdown or like you said a brain fog because everything's
(39:58):
coming in all at once. And it is.
It is a chemical imbalance in the brain.
Your brain is not dopamine, thatis the reason why you know.
ADHD medication exists, it givesyou the synapses, makes it feel
what quote UN quote normal feelslike I guess.
Praise be. Praise be.
(40:20):
I was like, is this what people feel like?
Like, because you'll always havethe person like, yeah, I
procrastinate and you'll always have that neurotypical person's
like, well, yeah, I don't like to do chores, but you do them
because you have to. And you're like, no, I won't do
them because I don't want to andit doesn't feel the body or I
won't. Do them because I literally
(40:41):
can't. Right.
It's that it, it's the executivefunctioning issue.
It's I, I, I deal with this all the time.
And, and it's the problem with the inconsistency because if I
do too much, I will scroll for hours because I'm so burnt out.
Do you know what I mean? So yeah, I do autistic.
(41:04):
Burnout. EDF burnout is real.
It sure is. And that, that I think is
something I, I really encourage people to pay attention to that
that burnout 'cause that was, that was really the big sign for
me of something's not right here.
And that's why people that are creatives usually have some ADHD
(41:25):
components, because they get that dopamine hit, they're doing
things they enjoy, they get the hyperfixation, and that
hyperfixation is just in the zone.
Dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine.
Brit, this has, This has been soilluminating and fascinating and
I'm so, so grateful that you were here.
And it's just so great to be able to talk about this because
(41:47):
I talk, I talk about it with Sarah, but I don't have a lot of
people who get why I why I do the things that I do.
Sarah does and she has immense patience for me because a lot of
people wouldn't, but she does. So I want to say thank you to
her for recommending that we talk with you and thank you so
much for taking the time and committing yourself to this, to
(42:12):
this 'cause if you guys aren't following us on social media,
just follow us at Worth the waitshow on YouTube, TikTok, and
Instagram. You can send any of your dating
advice questions to hello@datologycoach.com or just
go to my site and submit them. Follow me on my datology coach
TikTok page as well. All right, guys, thank you so
(42:34):
much. Bog Witch's Warlock stays Value
your time these center men and center yourself goodbye.
Bye, take care.
Worth the Wait podcast. Hi, Sarah.
Hi. Guess what, Sarah, what?
We have a special guest today. We do, we do, we do.
And I'm very excited because this is a topic that we've been
touching on more, especially since you and I both being
diagnosed later in life with ADHD.
We are going to talk to a specialist, an expert in the
(00:34):
field. We're going to call her doctor
Britt. We're we're going to talk about
dating while neurodivergent. So, Britt, do you want to just
tell us a little bit about your background?
Sure. Hi, thank you for having me.
I appreciate you both. So you can just call me Britt.
Doctor Britt's fine. But my background, I am an
autism specialist so I've workedwith folks with disabilities for
(00:57):
over 15 years. Autism specifically is my niche.
Not only do I cover dating whileneurodiverse, I also teach life
skills and social skills for adults with disabilities.
And that can range anywhere from, you know, navigating
finances and budgeting to livingindependently.
And dating goes along with that as well.
(01:17):
So that's that's where I am in that field.
And I run a nonprofit for adultswith disabilities.
Wow, thank you. I'm just, I'm so grateful, so
happy to to have you here. Thank you for making time.
You know, my recent diagnosis, it it kind of thanks to Sarah,
thanks to a text message from Sarah.
(01:39):
She's like, you know, I think some of these things that you're
not able to do, I, I, I think it's ADHD and I'm like, huh,
Yeah. I.
Remember diagnosing you via text.
Sorry, or you did or you did andand I was like wait a minute,
really? Could that OK?
And then I made the appointment with my therapist and I was
(02:00):
like, can we talk about this? And it really, it answered a lot
of questions. It made me realize, oh, oh,
that's why. Oh, yeah.
It's sort of like those just A1 continuous light bulb moment.
Yes. And what now?
In your experience, what do you think are the more common
(02:24):
challenges of dating while neurodivergent?
Well, thank you for sharing thatpart of your story.
I think when adults, especially adult women are diagnosed later
in life, they're it kind of a light bulb turns on and it
starts highlighting all the moments in your, your timeline
of that's why I did that, right?And that's why that person
(02:47):
reacted that way. Right.
And that can be a really beautiful moment.
And that allows room for forgiveness.
And then you can start building on, OK, so these were, you know,
these were ADHD behaviors or autistic behaviors, and now
people felt this way about them.And those feelings are also
valid. But now I need to know, know how
to navigate my neurodivergence myself.
(03:09):
So yeah, it is. It's almost like a second
adolescence in a way. I'm figuring out how to adult as
a neurodivergent person. Yeah.
It it can be illuminating and scary and fulfilling all at the
same time. Now, what are the more common
challenges that we that we encounter?
(03:29):
The most common challenges wouldbe reading social cues, right?
I think that's the first thing that we're going to think of
when we think of the word neurodivergent.
Or are we thinking of the word autistic?
Just misinterpretations of what flirting is someone being nice
or are they being flirty? Especially sarcasm.
Sarcasm can be used as a conversation builder, a
(03:49):
friendship strengthener. And if someone doesn't
understand sarcasm, it can meet make people feel a little hurt.
Body language is also another big one.
So all of those things are tied into the social cues to me would
be the top contender for the whydating is so challenging.
I don't feel that I have that issue.
(04:12):
OK, Is that now? Is that more common with odd
ADHDADHD autism? So if you were diagnosed
strictly with ADHD and not autism, usually folks with ADHD
can understand social cues in the moment.
(04:32):
It's about what their body and their mouths and are doing in
that moment. So they know what's going on.
It's just how are they responding to it in a socially
appropriate way. The most common thing that I see
with ADHD folks is they understand what was happening
and they go back home and then they start self reflecting.
(04:54):
So if they're at home self reflecting, they're going to be
like, oh man, why did I say that?
Because with ADHD there's a lot of anxiety because you, there's
impulse control and you can't control what you're saying and
doing. And then later on when you're in
a more calm space, you're like that that was probably
misinterpreted. Then you, that's when you pick
up your phone, you text your friend and be like, Hey, I
(05:14):
didn't mean it this way, by the way.
And your friend's like, what? I didn't take it that way.
Or they're like, oh, I'm glad you clarified that.
Yeah. So at least in my journey as an
ADHD person, there's a lot of circling back to a previous
social encounter that I've had of making sure that I was
interpreted correctly in the waythat I I wanted to be
interpreted. And that can be very exhausting
(05:36):
in and of itself as someone withADHD, which is also why people
avoid social socializing, right?Right.
Because then you're like, well, it's an extra work.
I enjoy going out. I enjoy spending time with
people. But then if I slip up, if I say
something, if I'm constantly policing myself, I'm going to
then have to be on my phone later on and have another
(05:57):
conversation. So it's like a 2 for one outing.
Now, a word that we hear a lot that I say a lot is
overstimulated, right? And so does the overstimulation.
Is that what leads to? I would think that's what leads
to the lack of impulse control. Yeah, So if we were talking
about common challenges, if reading social cues is the first
(06:19):
one, I would consider sensory sensitivities to be the second.
That's where you get the word overstimulated from loud bars,
loud restaurants, strong perfume, someone's dressing up
for a date. They, they lather on too much
Cologne or perfume, it could setthe whole mood off right?
Unexpected social touches. So if someone's communicating
(06:40):
and they are, you know, we're having a back and forth
conversation and it might be like feel really good.
And there's that person that's always like, ha ha, ha.
And they touch your like leg in in like a gesture of getting to
know you. That can be off putting.
So these these are considered like sensory and over
stimulating things. So if you're in a loud bar
trying to get to know someone you, it's going to be a
challenge because you're worriedabout the sounds, the clinking
(07:02):
of glasses, the lighting, the music.
I have to yell a little bit louder to have a conversation.
It can be very over stimulating.You're also trying to read
social cues in an environment that's hard to read social cues.
So you're it's, it's, it's like a double whammy.
I have to jump in here and pointout, or I guess rather ask
(07:22):
Britt, are you aware of the I think it's an app.
It's either an app or a website,but it you can you can like
search for any restaurant or barand it will tell you how loud it
is. Before you go not what is that
app called? I'm going to have to ask my my
friend that introduced me to it because we look at it every time
we meet up. An.
(07:44):
Appropriate place and I'll, I'llsend it to you and we'll put it
in the show. Notes too, please.
Please do. Yeah.
And, you know, five years ago, maybe 10 years ago, these were
not things that we were considering during the process,
right? We weren't thinking about the
overstimulation. We weren't thinking about the
(08:04):
social Choose. Dating apps present such a
challenge for people who are neurodivergent, and we never
really thought about it. Yeah, I think it's double edged
sword. So if we're going with another
challenge is communication differences, right?
So some people prefer direct communication, which can be
(08:25):
misunderstood or misconstrued asbluntness.
Other people really prefer to not rock the boat and have like
a even keeled conversation. You take that preference and put
it on to a screen where people have to use emojis and lols
after the end of a sentence or like making sure that you have a
(08:46):
proper greeting and an ending inthe end of your your text
message or even e-mail or whatever.
That's a whole other social dynamic that is then translated
to an online platform. And I say it's a double edged
sword because unlike being in person where you have to think
on the fly and have a, a response almost right away, the
(09:06):
the silver lining to online dating is you can think about
your responses a little bit and tailor them.
But that can still be exhausting.
Like, oh, I'm trying to online date, but then I, this is what I
mean to say. But now I have to put a softener
in there or put an emoji in there so they don't think I'm
serious. Cause tone is important in
texting and communicating and often times conveying tone
(09:29):
through those is is a challenge for folks.
Let's say they're exchanging messages with somebody and they
find themselves getting overstimulated.
What do you recommend that they do?
I think the first step would be whoever you are on the date with
knows that that could be a potential that happens, right?
Because we're socialized that ifsomebody needs to get up and
have space or walk outside to dosome breathing or go to the
(09:52):
bathroom when they don't have togo to the bathroom, they just
need a break, that those are signs of disinterest in the date
itself. Mm hmm.
So if it's communicated beforehand, like, hey, I might
have a challenge with ABC and D,but I'm working on it.
In the event that that happens, I'm going to let you know.
Mm hmm. And I'm going to tell you in the
moment and then I'll be back in 5 minutes to take a breather.
(10:16):
I think it's very important not to have a sensory overload
meltdown at a table or in front of that person in the moment.
And that puts them, it already imbalances the relationship and
already puts them in a role of caretaker.
And that is something we want toavoid when we're going into
dating on the diverse. That you're not trying to date a
caretaker or another guardian totake care of you.
(10:37):
That you're trying to find an equal partner.
Now when you're in terms of verbal communication, are there
any sort of behaviors that we should look out?
For behaviors. Meaning oversharing or
interrupting or too many details.
Yeah. Yes.
(10:58):
And now is that is that does that fall under neurodivergence?
Is that is that only under autism or odd age ADHD?
Oh no, that is, that is across the board nerd.
Alright, that makes now more makes sense more and more life.
Yeah, yeah, it's explains virtually everybody you see
(11:20):
online. Right.
Yes, Yep. In fact, almost every person
that I've met with a disability either over shares or under
shares, they don't tell me enough information, which I
like. I need more from you or they
tell me too much information being like that's where we value
secrets, right? We don't need to share that part
(11:40):
far of our interests right now. And you know, and the the good
spot is in the middle somewhere,you know, we build up to sharing
those things. But yeah, that is across the
board. That's a very common nerd
avergent. Well, and the same person could
do both right at at various times.
(12:02):
They could do both at various times, yes.
We could share nothing. And then all of all of a sudden,
you know everything about their life.
The woman was talking about herself.
Sex and the City call back and just like that call back.
Now what would cause the under sharing?
I've never heard that. A past rejection anxiety a lot
(12:28):
of times there's comorbidity with autism, ADHD, OCD and
anxiety. So the anxiety of sharing
because people have then either made fun of me or people have
ghosted me or or I said something and then I had to
circle back and have another conversation of about how I came
(12:49):
across the wrong way. Those things would cause people
be like, oh, the best place, best thing I can do is just
under share. And then I know I'm not going to
offend somebody because I didn'tsay anything.
The problem with that is then sometimes people interpret that
with you didn't share a lot. You don't come out to these
things. Do you like us?
Do you? Do you like me?
You're not talking a lot. And yeah, it's it's a balance.
(13:12):
It's a balance. And we're asking all of our
neurodivergent folks to do this that is supposed to supposedly
come naturally to humans and also human and do adult things
at the same time. So, you know, it is it becomes
very overwhelming. And, and there are a lot of
executive functioning barriers that are, are interest mixed in
that that is just going to be very preventative from them
(13:36):
being able to access this datingfield.
And, and I'll extend that to, tofriendships as well.
Yeah. Can I, can I add something about
undersharing too? Yes.
I, I feel like in addition to just past, you know, experience
negative usually over intellectualizers may tend to
(13:59):
undershare. Yeah.
And here I'm, I'm thinking, you know, more broadly about like
all neurodivergence. I'm not, you know, thinking of
anyone. Specific diagnosis, yeah,
Undersharers too. And this is not everyone,
undershares often have trauma aswell.
OK, there we go. That's where we.
(14:20):
Are exactly that's exactly whereI was going.
Now my background is trauma recovery.
And do you find that PTSD is is a common comorbidity?
It is. And what I've noticed especially
adults that are diagnosed later in life, they are going to have
(14:44):
trauma and and there's a reason why they're diagnosed later in
life. It wasn't caught for some reason
where whether they were able to mask Kylie, whether they were a
very good academic performer. So it was not on anyone's radar
generationally if they're of a certain age, it was just people
(15:05):
weren't paying attention to it. Parents weren't really attuned
to their child to notice those or parents were also
neurodivergent. So they wouldn't, weren't able
to like see differences in milestone development with their
child. And through this, a, the child,
an autistic child, an ADHD childbuilds coping mechanisms and
coping strategies for survival. And then those get blended in
(15:25):
with their neurodivergence. And now the big work, especially
if therapist is pulling apart what are trauma responses and
what are autistic responses. So a lot of times when I've
worked with older adults with autism, they're saying I'm
autistic and This is why I did that.
And I was like, whoa, whoa. That is a trauma response,
executive dysfunction or communication differences.
(15:47):
Those can be worked on in in like a social skills development
type thing type neurodivergent framework, but trauma based
practices need to be separate from that.
Now, oversharing is also a trauma response, right?
It it can be. It can be, yeah.
(16:08):
And so how do you differentiate between oversharing that is a
trauma response and oversharing that is from neurodivergence?
Is it the narrative that we attach to it?
I think it's more of why is thatperson oversharing?
The thing that I look for is if someone's oversharing because
it's trauma versus neurodivergence is is there an
(16:31):
anxiety component? OK.
Are they oversharing because every time that they're sharing
information, they're trying to compensate for what they just
shared because they don't want it to be misinterpreted.
So oversharers are usually the ones that are trying to like
Polish up the conversation to make sure that everything leaves
from the table every not misinterpreted so.
(16:56):
So the anxiety component you feel is more present with
neurodivergence? It's more present with trauma.
Oh OK, but most neurodivergent people, especially diagnosed
later in life will have drama. What are some other
comorbidities you would say? Anxiety.
What about? Depression, depression, anxiety,
(17:18):
they go hand in hand are they'reclassic what we stereotype OCD
to be, germs, all that. It could also just be ruminating
on thoughts that could be very like obsessive, like if I do a
certain behaviour, it's going toensure that this social
interaction has gone smoothly. So the obsession and then
compelled to behave in a certainway, that's where it gets it
(17:40):
cleverly gets it's whole name. Other comorbidities would be you
said PTSD earlier. That's a big one.
Bipolar disorder, borderline personality disorder, those are
common comorbidities that can gowith neurodivergence.
And it's important when we're teaching life skills and social
skills for people with those comorbidities that we're working
(18:04):
from a certain framework. So when I do my work at my
nonprofit, I do like an intake and if someone does have a
comorbidity, it doesn't disqualify them from coming in
to receive services. But I'm very transparent with
the fact that this is a neurodivergent, skill based,
life skills and social social skill based program that I'm
working at from a framework of autism practices.
(18:25):
If someone is coming in and their leading diagnosis is
mental health, then that is a different framework and it a lot
of the work that I do will not transfer over to mental health
because they work on different frameworks.
Now if someone is autistic, has depression and anxiety, but the
primary concerns are with the autism, the framework will work.
(18:48):
But it's when mental health overshadows the neurodivergence
where we have to work from a mental health framework instead.
Got it. Something that I've only
recently become aware of and I again, as soon as I heard of it
I was like Oh my God, that's it.Rejection sensitivity dysphoria.
(19:09):
Can you explain it a little bit?It is common for ADHD folks that
if someone rejects them and thenwe're not even talking about
any, any dating standpoint. But this does qualify for for
that if someone rejects an offering, a social offering or
someone may not be as happy for a gift that this person bought
them. Or even if someone's in school
(19:32):
and they have ADHD and they get criticism on a paper they wrote
or they get a bad grade on a test, that they internalize
those feelings of discomfort into a very heightened emotional
pain. It is a feeling of being
unworthy. A lot of times it recalls people
with ADHD to retreat within themselves to maybe ghost
(19:55):
friends and family and relationships.
They feel disappointing. It's like they catastrophize a
lot. Or they get angry like the first
emotion is anger. Of course, yeah.
You rejected me if you like you know you get you get really
upset and anger is a secondary response.
The primary response if the first go to is anger after being
(20:15):
rejected is I feel anxious, hurtand sad that this happened and
neurotypical people that would get a rejection are going to
feel emotions about it. It's not fun to be rejected.
A person that has ADHD is going to feel it on a more heightened
level. You know, this is a very common
(20:36):
issue that women who date men experience because when they
reject men, so many of these menhave such an extreme reaction.
And whether it's due to ADHD or whether it's due to their own
lack of attunement and and emotional stability, it doesn't
(20:57):
really matter because I wouldn'twant any.
But not I won't say it doesn't matter.
I wouldn't encourage someone to date someone who shows an
extreme anger, regardless of the'cause right?
Yeah, I think, I think that I agree with you.
I think we're talking about two separate things though.
Because men who experience rejection from women and their
(21:17):
reaction is to anger is a resultof a patriarchal system of a a
man feels entitled to women and a woman.
He clarifies that and and statesthat she is an independent
person and does not want this man.
This man who feels entitled feels like this person, this
this woman disobeyed the structure, the order dare you.
(21:40):
And really that anger comes froma deep insecurity that men feel
with women. If we really peel apart the the
anger that men might experience when being rejected from a woman
of interest. OK, take the anger out.
It is You made me feel like a fool, so I feel embarrassed.
I am hurt because I put myself out there.
(22:03):
I am sad because I might feel like I'm going to be alone.
But all of those are matched with anger because that is what
a patriotic society have deemed male emotions appropriate to be.
Right. Happy and angry.
Right. And it's, it's, it's just so
common. I I'll log into any social media
(22:25):
and it's just these, these manifestos from these men and
it, it, it is something this sort of strays from the, from
the topic of neurodivergence. But it is so common to see that
flash of anger from men, right? It's interesting that you say
that, because that is something that we dismantle in the work
that I do with our autistic males as well.
(22:48):
OK. That someone that doesn't pick
up on reading social cues and has communication different
difficulties and executive functioning barriers would
somehow be immune to patriarchalthinking and that is not a case.
No, I don't know if you've been following the Idaho 4 case at
all. Yeah.
I mean, I've read all the reports from all his professors
(23:12):
and I mean, this guy showed all the signs, the absolute rage
towards women. And that's again another topic.
But you know this to I'd love tohear more about how you address
this and break it down. Yeah, well, with males
specifically and autistic men that also result to anger when
(23:37):
they're rejected, it's really important.
What if we figure out why are they so angry?
And usually it comes down to something called limerance.
Limerance, I guess in a nutshell, is the the intense
infatuation or obsessive thoughts or idealization of
idealization of another person. So if you think in terms of ADHD
(24:01):
and autism, a lot of folks with ADHD and autism have a thing
called hyper focus. And when they're interested in
somebody, they will hype that would be their interest.
They will hyper focus on that person.
They will study that person, they will get to know them.
They will laugh at all their jokes.
They will follow them around. If they take a say, we're
talking in a school environment.If they have to go to math class
(24:23):
from science class and it's a straight line to get there, but
there are crushes on the other side of the school, they will go
that direction before they go tomath class that is, and in their
whole like lives are altered andupheaved because of this
limerence. It ties in with OCD, it ties in
with hyper focus and it can be avery dangerous feeling.
(24:47):
And when I work with our folks that do experience this, it is
if someone can rationalize, or Sarah said earlier, the
overthinkers, if they can logic their way out of it.
That has been the best techniquefor my logical thinker so far.
Like, you can have these feelings, but you need to know
that these are a reaction. Burgens is an OverDrive right
(25:08):
now, and your hyper focus is an OverDrive and you need to
constantly put that in check as it's affecting another human
being. And that's where we get into the
problem. Is.
If then they try to get the the object of their desire, in this
case a person, to feel a certainway back from their their every
breath is hinged on if they get a reply back in a text message
(25:30):
or something. Yeah, and and that really is one
of the biggest signs of limerence is, are your moods
completely dependent on the attention that you get or the
response that you get? That is really, I think one of
the clearest signs that someone should look for to to start
realizing, OK, this isn't just Idon't just like this person.
(25:51):
This is this is limerence. This is an an intensity that
maybe I should talk to somebody about.
Yeah, yes. And limerance is patterned
behavior. So the limerance will fade and
they will stop hyper focusing onthe person and the my goal is to
expedite that process. I can't fix the limerance per
(26:13):
SE, but I can shorten it and be like, OK, I was fascinated with
this person for a week and we kind of had a distance and
separation. And if you keep them separated
and have a no contact, it no, itsounds counterintuitive, like
they would just obsess even more.
But when you're looking like with autism, there's a lot of
object permanence. Sometimes they're out of orbit,
(26:36):
then they're out of someone's thought.
And we can work with that and there's strategies during that
time that we can practice to getsomeone out of limerence and
then they're going to jump back into another person.
This like will continues. Can we talk about object
permanence for a second and in regards to dating or just
listen? I don't mean listen, I don't
(26:57):
mean to be. I'm not trying to be rude, but
is if I keep forgetting certain like meetings or appointments,
is that part of object limerance, object permanence,
permanence, object limerance I'mmaking up?
Terms now that is is pretty, pretty close like that would be
(27:21):
it. It's executive functioning,
right? Planning dates, remembering
details, making sure that you'rearriving on time, scheduling all
of that stuff. And then object permanence is,
you know, you have that task of laundry that's just sitting
there and it's uncomfortable to do laundry and you're going to
(27:44):
avoid it because you don't get adopamine, dopamine hit from it.
So it's going to build up until you absolutely have to do the
task or the, the cost of inaction is greater than the
cost of action. So I don't do something, it's
going to be more uncomfortable than if I do it.
And that's usually why we have our ADHD folks procrastinate a
lot. And then in terms of the object
(28:07):
permanence, it is out of sight, out of mind, because there's too
many things I'm dealing with right here, right in my front of
my face. And all the other things on the
periphery kind of go silent. Doesn't mean you don't care
about those things, right? Which means until they're in
your face, they're not on your mind.
Yes, I always, I always had a great memory until the last
(28:28):
couple years and poor Sarah. Sarah, listen, here's an here's
an example. OK, Three weeks ago, she sent me
an e-mail. Hey, I'm going to be going away
on this weekend for this girls trip.
So we should probably talk aboutwhen we're going to record.
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then about a week later,
hey, hi. Just a reminder, I'm going to be
(28:50):
going away on this weekend and we probably need to talk about
what day we're going to record. And so the next week on our day
that we're supposed to record, I'm like, hey, are we recording
today? And then it occurred.
I'm like Oh my God Oh my God shesent me this like 3 times.
Yeah, and then Sarah sent you a link to WebMD and it said ADHD.
(29:12):
Now how does that interfere withdating?
Oh, it's, it's, it's, it's, it'sa communication difference,
right? All of these things tie in
executive functioning and, you know, not texting somebody back
or forgetting key important details.
They're all communication stylesand I've seen some folks that
they are, they are pretty decentcommunicators in person.
(29:34):
They they really like talking and then they'll have like you
really enjoy their company and then you don't hear from them
until you see them again in person.
Like they just are gone. Right and.
And I am guilty of this. I know, Sarah.
I, I, yeah, we felt that. My number one thing that I am
working on is texting people back and making sure that they
(30:00):
know that I still care because the other party's feelings were
valid, you know, and that that'sthe, that's a difficult part.
You can't just use the excuse ofI'm autistic, I have ADHD, so I
struggle with these things. Like we all have different
struggles. So someone that's not autistic
or not have ADHD, they're going to struggle with something too.
(30:22):
And it shouldn't be my problem. Right, right.
Yep. You know, these are, you know,
my things that I have to work onare your things or Sarah's
things. And then the other party is
feeling validated in it. What really helps is the
acknowledgement of what occurredand that's where the self
reflection piece comes in. I know that I struggle with
this. I am so sorry.
I will try my best not to make this happen again.
(30:42):
And then there needs to be like a making up process.
Would you recommend to somebody to say just, you know, like I, I
haven't, I sometimes forget things.
I'm going to do everything to make sure that I don't.
But in case I do, please know it's not you that this is
probably a a result of XYZ. Yeah, I think it's good to have
a, a communication with somebodyabout that, especially if they
(31:06):
don't already know because they'll find out the hard way
eventually. But I also think it's important
to not only have grace with, with yourself, but also lead the
other person. I've had people that work around
me that kind of take advantage of the candidness, the
transparency, if that makes sense.
So you want to, you want to use,you know, some intuition and if
(31:29):
that's a person that's to be trusted with a vulnerability of
yours. Right.
And somebody with rejection sensitivity dysphoria, it can be
really overwhelming. How do you recommend somebody
deal with? That in terms of a a dating app,
this is nothing personal. This is what people do when they
(31:52):
are giving a little bit of anonymity where it's easier to
not have a conversation about, hey, I'm just not that into you
and and ghost you. And that can sometimes be a
challenge to understand if someone's a very literal thinker
when we're going into dating apps, it's sometimes a lawless
land. Someone that was you were having
(32:13):
a beautiful conversation with one day might not be there the
next day. And I anybody that I've worked
with that is on dating apps, I always say don't hinge on this
one singular person. Like they also talk to multiple
people. And then the rejection should
come if in the event that you meet someone in person, that's
(32:34):
when you're, I feel like a little bit more valid to have
that online. It's people are going to get
rejected left and right. You're going to have so many
people are going to try to shoota shoot their shot and so many,
there are going to be so many misses.
And so in the event that you getsomebody that does want to have
a conversation with you and doeswant to meet and meet you in
person, that is usually when thethe like the real coaching
(32:58):
begins of all right, so I met with this person and now I
haven't heard from them. What do I do?
So you're, you're sort of recommending you, you got to
coach yourself through this. You have to remind yourself,
this isn't about me. This is something to do with
them. They're one thing that I really
like to say is, especially with online dating, somebody you
(33:18):
haven't met yet, somebody, somebody you've maybe gone out
with once, they're not rejectingyou, they're rejecting A1
dimensional representation of you.
And that's very different. And I found that that was
something that really helped me when I was dating online.
And that's what I always recommend to people is maybe
(33:42):
come up with some mantras that you like.
And when this happens and when you feel that rejection
sensitivity, just repeat them inyour head and you're basically
just trying to ground yourself. I have this one gentleman that I
work with, but he is not the same person online.
He doesn't text in the way that he is.
In person he's a very enjoyable person, but online he's either
(34:06):
aloof or doesn't reply back or just gives thumbs up.
Someone offers information aboutthemselves and he doesn't follow
up in text message and say hey tell me more about that.
Or he jumps to his special interests and wants to talk
about sex too soon. But then in person, he's never
bringing those topics up, right?And and we're like, you are not
(34:28):
the same person. I and I have to like go through
because you know, he'll show me some conversations, he said.
I was like, you are not the sameperson.
Who is this person that you are communicating as?
Because when they meet you, if someone an off chance wants to
meet you, they're like who are you?
Right, right now. What causes that?
(34:51):
Anonymity, the veil of anonymity, and yes,
communication differences to someone that can think out their
thoughts more. But in this instance it's almost
like he thinks less. Like it's only two, three word
answers, but then I'll have a whole conversation in person.
And then, you know, every neurodivergent person is
(35:11):
different in how they communicate.
So I think I should have did a disclaimer at the very beginning
of this. Like this isn't a blanket for
everybody, like body. This is just generalization from
my experience, my research that I've done.
But everyone's going to have a different type of communication
style. And yeah, so, you know, working
with him, I was just like, Goose, this alter ego that you
(35:33):
created. And then we have someone that is
so shy and timid. And like, on the flip side of
it, I have someone that's so shyand timid in person, them on a
screen and they are the most enjoyable, lovely person ever
because they're not in person with you and they can think
about what they're saying and they, you know, they can run
their responses through ChatGPT and send those things to you.
(35:57):
I don't recommend that. It was just that was their thing
for a while. No, we go ahead.
I'm sorry. No, no, go ahead.
Because people are doing that now they're, you know, they're
going to chat CPT Now you don't recommend that, that you we use
chat CPT to write these messages, correct?
(36:17):
That's a different podcast. Yeah, I we were talking about it
before. I have a love hate relationship
with AI. The love part is it is a game
changer for people that do struggle with communicating.
In a way, it's almost like an accommodation, but then it's
horrible for the environment. So it and it's created by humans
(36:44):
and ChatGPT can be biased at times.
And it's starting to have a language of its own where if
you're reading something, you'relike, ah, that's from ChatGPT.
Like that has too many dashes init.
That's a ChatGPT e-mail, you know.
I hate that as a lover of the M-I know.
They've ruined it for me. Like I I'm going to digress a
(37:05):
little. They've ruined it for me because
I used to use that all the time.I was like, love the dash,
right? I love the M dash.
And now I was like, I got to take it out because people are
going to think I wrote this e-mail with Jack D So now I
can't. I've wait a minute.
M-IS the double double lines OK,all right.
(37:27):
As someone with ADHDI, always feel like I need to explain what
I'm meaning in my e-mail. The M dash has helped me.
Right I'm. Green from the M dash, so now I
have to be parenthetical. Justice for the M-I.
Know. Look at the M that's so dirty.
If I do use chachi PT, it's on days when I'm trying to write
(37:48):
something and I just can't. I know what I want to write.
I have all the sentences and I just put it all down and then I
go to ChatGPT and say help me structure this because there are
times when I can't I. Think that is a useful tool for
ChatGPT. I think there are going to be
other there are other systems that can also do that as well.
(38:12):
And I understand why people use it.
I use it when I'm angry and I'm like, this is what I want to
really say and I need to say this somehow to this, like from
this e-mail. Instead of getting all fiery and
ragey back, I'm just like make this worm but also convey my
meaning. Do you not recommend that
neurodivergent people use chat GP to write their messages on
(38:34):
dating apps or their profile? I wouldn't man.
If this was a yes or no question, I'm leaning towards
no, I wouldn't do it. I agree your your voice.
Your voice is so important. Yeah.
We'll go like that. And I, I don't know if you agree
with this point, Britt, so I'm not speaking for both of us
(38:55):
here, but my, my view of this isif you are someone who due to
neurodivergence, anticipates that you're going to have
challenges socially, whatever they are, you, you want to flex
those muscles, don't you? This is why I would never write
anybody's profile for them, because your voice is so
important. It's so important that your
(39:16):
speaking voice matches your writing voice.
We know we can sense that stuff.We especially if you have ADHD
pattern recognition, you can pick up on these these
inconsistencies very quickly. Pattern recognition is a bit of
a superpower for me in terms of I recognize things a little bit
(39:38):
faster than other people. I do a lot of work with true
crime and people are like, how did you get there?
And I'm like it's just my ADHD. A lot of people with ADHD
especially emphasis only age. It is an over attention to
everything all at once which then results in an either
shutdown or like you said a brain fog because everything's
(39:58):
coming in all at once. And it is.
It is a chemical imbalance in the brain.
Your brain is not dopamine, thatis the reason why you know.
ADHD medication exists, it givesyou the synapses, makes it feel
what quote UN quote normal feelslike I guess.
Praise be. Praise be.
(40:20):
I was like, is this what people feel like?
Like, because you'll always havethe person like, yeah, I
procrastinate and you'll always have that neurotypical person's
like, well, yeah, I don't like to do chores, but you do them
because you have to. And you're like, no, I won't do
them because I don't want to andit doesn't feel the body or I
won't. Do them because I literally
(40:41):
can't. Right.
It's that it, it's the executivefunctioning issue.
It's I, I, I deal with this all the time.
And, and it's the problem with the inconsistency because if I
do too much, I will scroll for hours because I'm so burnt out.
Do you know what I mean? So yeah, I do autistic.
(41:04):
Burnout. EDF burnout is real.
It sure is. And that, that I think is
something I, I really encourage people to pay attention to that
that burnout 'cause that was, that was really the big sign for
me of something's not right here.
And that's why people that are creatives usually have some ADHD
(41:25):
components, because they get that dopamine hit, they're doing
things they enjoy, they get the hyperfixation, and that
hyperfixation is just in the zone.
Dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine.
Brit, this has, This has been soilluminating and fascinating and
I'm so, so grateful that you were here.
And it's just so great to be able to talk about this because
(41:47):
I talk, I talk about it with Sarah, but I don't have a lot of
people who get why I why I do the things that I do.
Sarah does and she has immense patience for me because a lot of
people wouldn't, but she does. So I want to say thank you to
her for recommending that we talk with you and thank you so
much for taking the time and committing yourself to this, to
(42:12):
this 'cause if you guys aren't following us on social media,
just follow us at Worth the waitshow on YouTube, TikTok, and
Instagram. You can send any of your dating
advice questions to hello@datologycoach.com or just
go to my site and submit them. Follow me on my datology coach
TikTok page as well. All right, guys, thank you so
(42:34):
much. Bog Witch's Warlock stays Value
your time these center men and center yourself goodbye.
Bye, take care.
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