July 3, 2025 • 11 mins
In this episode of Write of Passage, Vanessa reflects on an unexpected lesson learned at 30,000 feet. On a turbulent return trip from the Historical Novel Society conference, she witnesses firsthand how indoctrination quietly seeps into our lives—not through shouting, but through repetition, comfort, and curated fear. From her own journey as a historical fiction writer breaking free of industry expectations, to the quiet propaganda playing beside her on a flight, Vanessa explores how narratives shape perception, silence empathy, and reinforce harmful patterns. This is a call to wake up, speak plainly, and reclaim the power of story.Featuring book recommendations, historical insight, and a raw look at allyship, empathy, and media influence—this is an episode about seeing the pattern and choosing not to sleep through it.
https://vanessariley.substack.com/p/lessons-from-indoctrination
Flying home from the Historical Novel Society conference, I learned a lesson in indoctrination. I’m on a fast-moving deadline for a special project, but I had to go. HNS holds a special place for me. My very first HNS conference changed the trajectory of my life.
Arriving in Vegas at the Historical Novel Society Conference
Before attending in 2019, I published lovely Regency romances. Sweet, comforting, polite novels—educating the world through fun, nonthreatening, history-filled reads.But HNS cracked something open. Meeting a tribe of fellow history nerds and selling the book I never thought I’d sell—https://malikbooks.com/shop-1/ols/products/island-queen-by-vanessa-riley, the biographical fiction about Dorothy Kirwan Thomas, one of the richest Black women in the Georgian world, a woman who bought her freedom and defies every rule and obstacle to live freely—that gave me the courage to keep telling stories that tug at my heart and mind.Being free to create is a gift. One that’s hard to achieve. Black and brown creators, and women creators, have been indoctrinated, fed rules in the simplest of terms that challenge our freedom. Rules such as:
- That more ethnic the cover, the more it can impact book sales—or determine where a book gets shelved.
- That a pen name that sounds like a man’s carries more heft.
- That “historical accuracy” will be weaponized to silence you if you make one mistake.
- That if you fail, your failure will become the reason the next person who looks like you gets turned away.
You’ll never know how much that last one haunted me. How it still probably drives me to go the extra mile.And I share all this to say: we’ve all been indoctrinated by our circumstances.Writers learn quickly by how we’ve been treated—and how we’ve seen others treated—in publishing. It’s hard to break the pattern. And it’s about logic. It’s 1 + 1 = 2 when one sees patterns repeating.And you, the listener—you’ve been indoctrinated.Certain patterns, behaviors, even thoughts have been ingrained through images and repetition. This was made clear to me on my flight home.Flying back from Vegas, Atlanta’s weather did not cooperate. Several delays and cancellations later, I was finally on my way but rerouted through Minneapolis. I’d arrived in Atlanta with just a four-hour delay and a bump up to first class. All was good.But I wasn’t prepared for the real lesson I’d take from that flight.An older gentleman sat beside me. The moment we took off, he flicked on his monitor and tuned into the news. He looked like a typical executive—loafers, golf watch, faint aftershave. He popped in his headphones, stared at the screen, and then drifted off to sleep.I was writing but I couldn’t help watching. Something about flickering images in my periphery always pulls me in. For ten minutes, I stared at his monitor. No sound—just headlines and smiling faces discussing stories that disturbed me.Ice raids with masked men capturing women on the street. The host smiled.
Florida detention camps pop onto the screen. The smiling host makes it appear to be a pitch for a Disney vacation.
And my neighbor slept. Peacefully. Whatever was being whispered in his ear lulled him into calm.I sat there gobsmacked.This is indoctrination.Indoctrination is subtle, yet powerful.
It’s not about shouting.
It’s about repeating.
It’s about phrasing.
It’s about making you feel safe while you’re being lulled into believing counterintuitive things.The TV’s formula was simple:
- Repeat the same emotionally charged themes again and again.
- Print aggressive words: sue, threaten, destroy, take back, fight for your children.
- Paint the other side as monsters trying to take away your rights—your autonomy, your voice, your values.
- Frame reasonable actions as extreme.
- Show flags. Cue nostalgia. Stir something primal.
- Smile while doing it.
And the man next to me? He slept. Fully content. The world whispering in his ear made sense. That’s when
https://vanessariley.substack.com/p/lessons-from-indoctrination
Flying home from the Historical Novel Society conference, I learned a lesson in indoctrination. I’m on a fast-moving deadline for a special project, but I had to go. HNS holds a special place for me. My very first HNS conference changed the trajectory of my life.
Arriving in Vegas at the Historical Novel Society Conference
Before attending in 2019, I published lovely Regency romances. Sweet, comforting, polite novels—educating the world through fun, nonthreatening, history-filled reads.But HNS cracked something open. Meeting a tribe of fellow history nerds and selling the book I never thought I’d sell—https://malikbooks.com/shop-1/ols/products/island-queen-by-vanessa-riley, the biographical fiction about Dorothy Kirwan Thomas, one of the richest Black women in the Georgian world, a woman who bought her freedom and defies every rule and obstacle to live freely—that gave me the courage to keep telling stories that tug at my heart and mind.Being free to create is a gift. One that’s hard to achieve. Black and brown creators, and women creators, have been indoctrinated, fed rules in the simplest of terms that challenge our freedom. Rules such as:
- That more ethnic the cover, the more it can impact book sales—or determine where a book gets shelved.
- That a pen name that sounds like a man’s carries more heft.
- That “historical accuracy” will be weaponized to silence you if you make one mistake.
- That if you fail, your failure will become the reason the next person who looks like you gets turned away.
You’ll never know how much that last one haunted me. How it still probably drives me to go the extra mile.And I share all this to say: we’ve all been indoctrinated by our circumstances.Writers learn quickly by how we’ve been treated—and how we’ve seen others treated—in publishing. It’s hard to break the pattern. And it’s about logic. It’s 1 + 1 = 2 when one sees patterns repeating.And you, the listener—you’ve been indoctrinated.Certain patterns, behaviors, even thoughts have been ingrained through images and repetition. This was made clear to me on my flight home.Flying back from Vegas, Atlanta’s weather did not cooperate. Several delays and cancellations later, I was finally on my way but rerouted through Minneapolis. I’d arrived in Atlanta with just a four-hour delay and a bump up to first class. All was good.But I wasn’t prepared for the real lesson I’d take from that flight.An older gentleman sat beside me. The moment we took off, he flicked on his monitor and tuned into the news. He looked like a typical executive—loafers, golf watch, faint aftershave. He popped in his headphones, stared at the screen, and then drifted off to sleep.I was writing but I couldn’t help watching. Something about flickering images in my periphery always pulls me in. For ten minutes, I stared at his monitor. No sound—just headlines and smiling faces discussing stories that disturbed me.Ice raids with masked men capturing women on the street. The host smiled.
Florida detention camps pop onto the screen. The smiling host makes it appear to be a pitch for a Disney vacation.
And my neighbor slept. Peacefully. Whatever was being whispered in his ear lulled him into calm.I sat there gobsmacked.This is indoctrination.Indoctrination is subtle, yet powerful.
It’s not about shouting.
It’s about repeating.
It’s about phrasing.
It’s about making you feel safe while you’re being lulled into believing counterintuitive things.The TV’s formula was simple:
- Repeat the same emotionally charged themes again and again.
- Print aggressive words: sue, threaten, destroy, take back, fight for your children.
- Paint the other side as monsters trying to take away your rights—your autonomy, your voice, your values.
- Frame reasonable actions as extreme.
- Show flags. Cue nostalgia. Stir something primal.
- Smile while doing it.
And the man next to me? He slept. Fully content. The world whispering in his ear made sense. That’s when
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Rite of Passage with Vanessa Riley, the
podcast where storytelling meets passion in every page turns into
a new adventure. I'm your host, Vanessa Riley, and together
we'll dive deep into untold histories, reflect on current events
through a historical lands, share behind the scenes writing insights,
(00:29):
and explore the ups and downs of the author's journey
from rich historical novels to unforgettable characters to pop culture's
intrusion on the written word. Hey, we're going to explore
it all. So grab your pen, your notebook, and let's
begin our journey through the written word. Let's start your
(00:54):
Rite of Passage. Lessons from Indoctrination. Home from the Historical
Novel Society Conference, I learned a lesson in indoctrination. I'm
on a fast moving deadline for a special project, but
I had to go to H and S. H and
(01:15):
S holds a special place for me. My very first
H and S conference changed the trajectory of my life.
Before attending in twenty nineteen, I published lovely regency romances,
sweet comforting, polite novels, educating the world through fun, non threatening,
(01:35):
history filled reads. But H and S cracked something open,
meeting a tribe of fellow history nerds, and selling the
book I never thought i'd sell. Island Queen, the biographical
fiction about Dorothy Kerwin Thomas, one of the richest black
women in the Georgian world, a woman who bought her
(01:59):
freedom and defies every rule and obstacle to live freely.
That gave me the courage to keep telling stories that
tug at my heart and mind. Being free to create
is a gift one that's hard to achieve. Black and
brown creators and women creators have been indoctrinated, fed rules
(02:23):
in the simplest terms that challenge our freedom. Rules such
as the more ethnic the cover of your book, the
more it can impact book sales or determine where a
book gets shelved. That a pen name that sounds like
a man's carries more heft, That historical accuracy will be
(02:48):
weaponized to silence you if you make one mistake, and
that if you fail, your failure will become the reason
the next person who looks like you gets turned away.
You'll never know how much that last one haunted me,
(03:10):
how it still probably drives me to go the extra mile.
And I share all this to say, we've all been
indoctrinated by our circumstances. Writers learn quickly by how we've
been treated and how we've seen others treated and publishing.
It's hard to break the pattern, and it's about logic.
(03:33):
It's one plus one equals too. When one sees patterns
repeating and you the listener, you've been indoctrinated certain patterns, behaviors,
even thoughts, have been ingrained through images and repetition. This
was made clear to me on my flight home. Flying
(03:56):
back from Vegas, Atlanta's weather didn't not cooperate. Several delays
and cancelations. Later, I was finally on my way, but
rerouted through Minneapolis. I'd arrive in Atlanta with just a
four hour delay, got a bump up to first class.
Not bad. All was good, but I wasn't prepared for
(04:21):
the real lesson I'd take from that flight. An older
gentleman sat beside me the moment we took off. He
flicked on his monitor and tuned into the news. He
looked like a typical executive loafers golf watch faint aftershave,
he popped in his headphones, stared at the screen, and
(04:43):
then drifted off to sleep. I was writing, but I
couldn't help watching. Something about flickering images in my periphery
always pulls me in. For ten minutes, I stared at
his monitor, no sound, just headlines and smile faces discussing
stories that disturbed me. Ice raids with mass men capturing
(05:06):
women on the street. The host smiled, floor detention caps
pop up onto the screen. The smiling host makes it
appear to be a pitch for a Disney vacation, And
my neighbors slept peacefully, not a care in the world.
Whatever was being whispered in his ear lulled him into calm.
(05:32):
I sat there, gobsmacked. This is indoctrination, and doctrination is
subtle yet powerful. It's not about shouting. It's about repeating,
it's about phrasing. It's about making you feel safe while
you're being lulled into believing counterintuitive things. The TV's formula
(05:52):
was simple, repeat the same emotionally charged themes again and again.
Print aggressive words. Soon, do threaten, destroy, take back, fight
for your children. Paint the other side as monsters trying
to take away your rights, your autonomy, your voice, your values,
(06:13):
frame reasonable actions as extreme show flags, c nostalgia stir
something primal, smile while doing it, and the man next
to me, he slept fully content, the world whispering in
his ear made sense. That's when I understood the terrifying
(06:35):
genius of it. People aren't being brainwashed. They're being comforted,
soothed by simple stories, a few buzzwords, and a familiar rhythm.
In this whispering world, empathy is suspect, Fairness a threat,
truth conditional. How else do you explain people cheering for
(06:58):
a roofer, someone who read built their home after a hurricane,
being rounded up and sent to a detention camp, being
pictured as a theme park? What happened to questioning things?
When did we decide that cruelty is an acceptable solution?
Why is it okay to sleep through someone else's pain?
(07:21):
Be awake, don't let anyone tell you you're overreacting. You're
not a sucker for caring. You're human. And to my
fellow protesters and change makers, we can't just fight with
facts and five point plans. Shame doesn't move people, Complexity
(07:41):
doesn't sway them. If your message makes them feel stupid,
they'll dig in and side with the whisperers. So what
can we do? We make the stakes as clear as possible.
We must give up the five dollar words, as those
words only land with the most liberal among us. And,
(08:04):
as Nicole Hannah Jones wrote in a recent New York
Times essay, how Trump upended sixty years of civil rights
in two months, citing scholar ian Hane Lopez, the rapid
decline in support for DEI came from liberals, particularly white liberals,
those skeptical of diversity, those sympathetic to complaints about wokeness.
(08:31):
It hurts on so many levels. Who is actually an ally?
We had the George Floyd Awakening, the feel good changes,
and then people voted against their better angels for cheap eggs,
all while rolling back the good changes. It's going to
take me a while to believe in alleyship again. And
(08:54):
the lack of big words hurts because I love big words.
I love nuance, but I'd rather be heard than admired
for my vocabulary. I'd rather reach the gettable than preach
to the choir, acquire who might be full of whisperers.
So hw simple language, simple signs, drop the jargon, focus
(09:19):
on why it matters to them, and alas poor Yorick
and Vanessa, we must keep it simple. Maybe then we
can reindoctrinate the world to be good for once for all.
Books to help with framing the problem are Nice Racism
(09:41):
by Robin DiAngelo. It's a follow up to White Frugility.
This is a deep dive into how progressive people often
annoyingly uphold systemic racism. White Rage by Carol Anderson a
piercing explanation of how systemic racism reacts violently to Black
(10:05):
advancement in America through policy, education and media. Sister Outsider
by Audre Lord, essential essays on intersections of race, gender,
and sexuality and the power of being awake to oppression,
And of course The sixteen nineteen Project, A New Origin
(10:26):
Story by Nicole Hannah Jones. This anthology reframes American history
by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of
Black Americans at the very center of the national narrative,
and reveals how deeply racial ideology and indoctrination are woven
into the fabric of the United States. This week, I'm
(10:50):
highlighting Malik Books through their website and bookshop dot org.
Help me build momentum for fire Sword and Seas, spread
the word and pre order this disruptive narrative about female
pirates in the sixteen hundreds. This Sweeping Saga releases January thirteenth,
twenty twenty six. The link on my website shows retailer's
(11:14):
largest small who have set up preorders for this title.
Show notes include a list of the books mentioned in
this broadcast. You can find my notes on substack or
on my website Vanessailly dot com under the podcast link
in the about tap. Let's keep rising together like subscribe
(11:36):
and share, please stay connected to write a passage thank
you for listening. Hopefully you'll come again. This is Vanessa
Riley
Welcome to the Rite of Passage with Vanessa Riley, the
podcast where storytelling meets passion in every page turns into
a new adventure. I'm your host, Vanessa Riley, and together
we'll dive deep into untold histories, reflect on current events
through a historical lands, share behind the scenes writing insights,
(00:29):
and explore the ups and downs of the author's journey
from rich historical novels to unforgettable characters to pop culture's
intrusion on the written word. Hey, we're going to explore
it all. So grab your pen, your notebook, and let's
begin our journey through the written word. Let's start your
(00:54):
Rite of Passage. Lessons from Indoctrination. Home from the Historical
Novel Society Conference, I learned a lesson in indoctrination. I'm
on a fast moving deadline for a special project, but
I had to go to H and S. H and
(01:15):
S holds a special place for me. My very first
H and S conference changed the trajectory of my life.
Before attending in twenty nineteen, I published lovely regency romances,
sweet comforting, polite novels, educating the world through fun, non threatening,
(01:35):
history filled reads. But H and S cracked something open,
meeting a tribe of fellow history nerds, and selling the
book I never thought i'd sell. Island Queen, the biographical
fiction about Dorothy Kerwin Thomas, one of the richest black
women in the Georgian world, a woman who bought her
(01:59):
freedom and defies every rule and obstacle to live freely.
That gave me the courage to keep telling stories that
tug at my heart and mind. Being free to create
is a gift one that's hard to achieve. Black and
brown creators and women creators have been indoctrinated, fed rules
(02:23):
in the simplest terms that challenge our freedom. Rules such
as the more ethnic the cover of your book, the
more it can impact book sales or determine where a
book gets shelved. That a pen name that sounds like
a man's carries more heft, That historical accuracy will be
(02:48):
weaponized to silence you if you make one mistake, and
that if you fail, your failure will become the reason
the next person who looks like you gets turned away.
You'll never know how much that last one haunted me,
(03:10):
how it still probably drives me to go the extra mile.
And I share all this to say, we've all been
indoctrinated by our circumstances. Writers learn quickly by how we've
been treated and how we've seen others treated and publishing.
It's hard to break the pattern, and it's about logic.
(03:33):
It's one plus one equals too. When one sees patterns
repeating and you the listener, you've been indoctrinated certain patterns, behaviors,
even thoughts, have been ingrained through images and repetition. This
was made clear to me on my flight home. Flying
(03:56):
back from Vegas, Atlanta's weather didn't not cooperate. Several delays
and cancelations. Later, I was finally on my way, but
rerouted through Minneapolis. I'd arrive in Atlanta with just a
four hour delay, got a bump up to first class.
Not bad. All was good, but I wasn't prepared for
(04:21):
the real lesson I'd take from that flight. An older
gentleman sat beside me the moment we took off. He
flicked on his monitor and tuned into the news. He
looked like a typical executive loafers golf watch faint aftershave,
he popped in his headphones, stared at the screen, and
(04:43):
then drifted off to sleep. I was writing, but I
couldn't help watching. Something about flickering images in my periphery
always pulls me in. For ten minutes, I stared at
his monitor, no sound, just headlines and smile faces discussing
stories that disturbed me. Ice raids with mass men capturing
(05:06):
women on the street. The host smiled, floor detention caps
pop up onto the screen. The smiling host makes it
appear to be a pitch for a Disney vacation, And
my neighbors slept peacefully, not a care in the world.
Whatever was being whispered in his ear lulled him into calm.
(05:32):
I sat there, gobsmacked. This is indoctrination, and doctrination is
subtle yet powerful. It's not about shouting. It's about repeating,
it's about phrasing. It's about making you feel safe while
you're being lulled into believing counterintuitive things. The TV's formula
(05:52):
was simple, repeat the same emotionally charged themes again and again.
Print aggressive words. Soon, do threaten, destroy, take back, fight
for your children. Paint the other side as monsters trying
to take away your rights, your autonomy, your voice, your values,
(06:13):
frame reasonable actions as extreme show flags, c nostalgia stir
something primal, smile while doing it, and the man next
to me, he slept fully content, the world whispering in
his ear made sense. That's when I understood the terrifying
(06:35):
genius of it. People aren't being brainwashed. They're being comforted,
soothed by simple stories, a few buzzwords, and a familiar rhythm.
In this whispering world, empathy is suspect, Fairness a threat,
truth conditional. How else do you explain people cheering for
(06:58):
a roofer, someone who read built their home after a hurricane,
being rounded up and sent to a detention camp, being
pictured as a theme park? What happened to questioning things?
When did we decide that cruelty is an acceptable solution?
Why is it okay to sleep through someone else's pain?
(07:21):
Be awake, don't let anyone tell you you're overreacting. You're
not a sucker for caring. You're human. And to my
fellow protesters and change makers, we can't just fight with
facts and five point plans. Shame doesn't move people, Complexity
(07:41):
doesn't sway them. If your message makes them feel stupid,
they'll dig in and side with the whisperers. So what
can we do? We make the stakes as clear as possible.
We must give up the five dollar words, as those
words only land with the most liberal among us. And,
(08:04):
as Nicole Hannah Jones wrote in a recent New York
Times essay, how Trump upended sixty years of civil rights
in two months, citing scholar ian Hane Lopez, the rapid
decline in support for DEI came from liberals, particularly white liberals,
those skeptical of diversity, those sympathetic to complaints about wokeness.
(08:31):
It hurts on so many levels. Who is actually an ally?
We had the George Floyd Awakening, the feel good changes,
and then people voted against their better angels for cheap eggs,
all while rolling back the good changes. It's going to
take me a while to believe in alleyship again. And
(08:54):
the lack of big words hurts because I love big words.
I love nuance, but I'd rather be heard than admired
for my vocabulary. I'd rather reach the gettable than preach
to the choir, acquire who might be full of whisperers.
So hw simple language, simple signs, drop the jargon, focus
(09:19):
on why it matters to them, and alas poor Yorick
and Vanessa, we must keep it simple. Maybe then we
can reindoctrinate the world to be good for once for all.
Books to help with framing the problem are Nice Racism
(09:41):
by Robin DiAngelo. It's a follow up to White Frugility.
This is a deep dive into how progressive people often
annoyingly uphold systemic racism. White Rage by Carol Anderson a
piercing explanation of how systemic racism reacts violently to Black
(10:05):
advancement in America through policy, education and media. Sister Outsider
by Audre Lord, essential essays on intersections of race, gender,
and sexuality and the power of being awake to oppression,
And of course The sixteen nineteen Project, A New Origin
(10:26):
Story by Nicole Hannah Jones. This anthology reframes American history
by placing the consequences of slavery and the contributions of
Black Americans at the very center of the national narrative,
and reveals how deeply racial ideology and indoctrination are woven
into the fabric of the United States. This week, I'm
(10:50):
highlighting Malik Books through their website and bookshop dot org.
Help me build momentum for fire Sword and Seas, spread
the word and pre order this disruptive narrative about female
pirates in the sixteen hundreds. This Sweeping Saga releases January thirteenth,
twenty twenty six. The link on my website shows retailer's
(11:14):
largest small who have set up preorders for this title.
Show notes include a list of the books mentioned in
this broadcast. You can find my notes on substack or
on my website Vanessailly dot com under the podcast link
in the about tap. Let's keep rising together like subscribe
(11:36):
and share, please stay connected to write a passage thank
you for listening. Hopefully you'll come again. This is Vanessa
Riley
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