April 29, 2025 • 12 mins
There is a time and a season for everything.The real question is: Are you ready to move?Right now, it’s a scary time to be a Black creative. Honestly, it’s a scary time for everybody in the arts. I’ve shared in a previous episode how the Canva bots came for me — they told me that the word slavery was political and banned in their system of tools.Banning books is all the rage. Banning concepts or ideas — stopping the writer or artist at the very beginning — is unfathomable.Vanessa speaking at the Conyers Book Festival.You might say, "Vanessa, AI and bots are just part of the times." And yes, there are many great uses for AI in research and algorithmic approaches. But until we figure out how to train AI without stealing from artists and writers, we are going to continue to have a problem.If you tell me that the season we’re in now involves AI writing novels and creating drawings and graphics to replace artists, I will encourage you to consider the following:Nothing can replace human creativity, authenticity, and zeal.Those impacted by theft or imitation must press boundaries, pursue legal actions when necessary, and most importantly — outlast the wave.Sometimes, winning is simply about longevity.Outlasting your haters is definitely one way to gain victory.For those who follow me, I’m Vanessa Riley. I write in three genres: historical fiction, historical romance, and mystery.Lately, in the book world, I’ve seen so many friends — so many writers like myself who focus on history — getting hurt. Series are being cut short. Book options aren’t being picked up. Doors that were once wide open are now being slammed shut.The reasons are many:They tell us the market is soft.They whisper there are "enough" Black books now.They say history—the kind that reveals hidden figures and rich, complicated lives—is suddenly being gutted, looted, or dismissed.For someone like me, who loves history and is just now finding my footing in historical fiction, it’s dark. It’s absolutely terrifying.The visual arts, films, and TV have also suffered. In January, I heard similar feedback from filmmakers.Hollywood is still "recovering," they say.Budgets are tighter. Risk tolerance is low.Historical pieces, they say, are too "hard to place"—too expensive, too niche.And then—everyone gets dazzled by Ryan Coogler’s Sinners, a historical piece set in the 1930s that genre-bends horror and drama.The film is a hit.Annie and Smoke from the Movie Sinners shot by Eli Joshua.At the time of this podcast, Sinners has grossed over $161 million and is now projected to gross between $300–400 million. A diverse audience of moviegoers—Black, White, Asian, and more—people from all walks of life are coming together to experience this masterpiece of storytelling.Ryan Coogler, I salute you. You had a daring vision, found or created the systems and opportunities to execute it, and made magic.Now is the time of opportunity.We have to shake off our fears and create.We must figure out new ways to tell the stories burning in our souls.To innovate. To evolve. That is pathFinding way through the wilderness is the answer.Sinners showed us the way—not just by being excellent in storytelling, photography, cinematography, and research—but by knowing exactly who the story was for.Ryan and his team pushed the right buttons—the necessary buttons. The heart of the film is Black-centered storytelling: Jim Crow South, inclusivity, and vampires.Because when you know who you're speaking to and what you want to say, you don’t have to dilute the truth to make it palatable.As a Black creative, I’ve often been pressured to center pain and trauma in my stories—because that is what some believe (and still desire) is what sells.Ryan Coogler’s Sinners proves that de-escalating trauma works.It sells.Even in the scariest genres.He took care in how the story was told.Care in how every scene was shot.Care in the research, the respect.He cast with authenticity—from hair to skin to clothes to dialogue.He didn’t slap diversity on just for clout—the script lived it.To succeed only by limiting our stories to an audience that believes in our humanity through our suffering is inexcusable.We must push boundaries, push different buttons.And I believe it is our mission to find new ways to share the lessons of the past—without reducing ourselves to victims or spectacles.And if Sinners has taught us anything, it’s this:Audiences will reward care.They will reward newness.They will reward stories told with humanity, dignity, and love.When I first started writing, my mission was simple:Educate the world about the history of Black people across the diaspora.Show our humanity through love stories.But missions shift with the seasons.Right now? For me—and this pen or keyboard—it’s time to move, to be more daring, to try new approaches to story.Looking back, I know there were times I softened words, edited scenes, chose tenderness over rawness—because I wanted to make sure readers were comfortable.I wanted the me
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Rite of Passage with Vanessa Riley, the
podcast where storytelling meets passion in every page turns into
a new adventure. I'm your host, Vanessa Riley, and together
we'll dive deep into untold histories, reflect on current events
through a historical lands, share behind the scenes writing insights,
(00:29):
and explore the ups and downs of the author's journey
from rich historical novels to unforgettable characters to pop culture's
intrusion on the written word. Hey, we're going to explore
it all. So grab your pen, your notebook, and let's
begin our journey through the written word. Let's start your
(00:54):
right of passage. Time to move, time and a season
for everything. The real question is are you ready to
move right now? It's a scary time to be a
black creative. Honestly, it's a scary time for everybody in
the arts. I've shared in previous episode how the Canva
(01:21):
bots came for me. They told me that the word
slavery was political and banned in their system of tools.
Banning books is all the rage, banning concepts or ideas,
Stopping the writer or artists at the very beginning is unfathomable.
(01:45):
You might say, Vanessa, AI and bots are just part
of the times. You need to roll with it, you
need to move with it. And yes, there are many
great uses for AI in research and algorithmic approaches. But
until we figure out how to train AI without stealing
(02:06):
from artists and writers, we're going to continue to have
a problem. If you tell me that the season we're
in now involves AI writing novels and creating drawings and
graphics to replace artists, I will encourage you to consider
(02:28):
the following. Nothing can replace human creativity, authenticity, and zeal.
Those impacted by theft or imitation must press boundaries, pursue
legal actions when necessary, and most importantly, out last the wave.
(02:56):
Sometimes winning is simply about longevity. Outlasting your haters is
definitely one way to gain victory for those who follow me.
I'm Veneziley. I write in three genres historical fiction, historical romance,
and mystery. Lately, in the book world, I've seen so
(03:16):
many friends, so many writers like myself who focus on
history getting hurt. Series are being cut short, book options
aren't being picked up. Doors that were once wide open
are now being slam shut. There are many reasons, they
(03:39):
tell us, the market is soft, They whisper. There are
enough black books right now. They say, history, the kind
that reveals hidden figures and rich, complicated lives, is simply
being gutted or looted or dismissed. For someone like me
(04:03):
who loves history and is just now finding my footing
in historical fiction, it's dark. It's absolutely terrifying. The visual arts,
films and TV have also suffered. In January, I heard
similar feedback from filmmakers. Hollywood is still recovering. They say,
(04:26):
budgets are tight, risk tolerance is low. Historical pieces, they
say are too hard to place, too expensive, too niche.
And then everyone gets dazzled by Ryan Coogler Sinners, a
historical piece set in the nineteen thirties that genre bens
(04:49):
horror and drama. The film is a hit. At the
time of this podcast, Sinners has grossed over one hundred
and sixty one million dollars and is now projected to
gross between three hundred to four hundred million. A diverse
audience of moviegoers, black, white, Asian, and more, people from
(05:10):
all walks of life are coming together to experience this
masterpiece of storytelling. Ryan Coogler, I salute you. You had
a daring vision, found or created the systems and opportunities
to execute it, and made magic. Now is the time
(05:31):
of opportunity. We have to shake off our fears and create.
We must figure out new ways to tell the stories
burning in our souls, to innovate, to evolve. That is
the path. Finding our way through the wilderness is the answer.
(05:54):
Sinners shows us the way, not just by being excellent
in storytorytelling, photography, cinematography, and research, but by knowing exactly
who the story was for. Ryan his team pushed the
right buttons, the necessary buttons. The heart of the film
(06:16):
is black centered storytelling, the Jim Crow South, inclusivity and vampires,
because when you know who you're speaking to and what
you want to say, you don't have to dilute the
truth to make it palatable. As a Black creative, I'm
(06:36):
often pressured to center pain and trauma in my stories
because that is what some believe and still desire. They
think that's what sells. Ryan Coogler's Centers proves that de
escalating trauma works. It sells even in the scariest genres.
(07:03):
He took care in how the story was told, care
in how every scene was shot, here in the research.
The respect he cast with authenticity, from hair to skin
to close to dialogue. He didn't slap diversity on just
(07:25):
for cloud. The script lived it to succeed. Only by
limiting our stories to an audience that believes in our
humanity through our suffering is inexcusable. We must push boundaries,
(07:45):
push different buttons. I believe it is our mission to
find new ways to share the lessons of the past
without reducing ourselves to victims or spectacles. And if Sinners
has taught us anything, it's this audience will reward care,
they will reward newness, They will reward stories told with humanity,
(08:10):
dignity and love. When I first started writing, my mission
was simple, educate the world about the history of black
people across the diaspor show our humanity through love stories.
But missions shift with the seasons. Right now, for me
(08:30):
and this pen or keyboard, it's time to move, to
be more daring, to try to approach us to story.
Looking back, I know there were times I softened words,
edited seems, choke tenderness over rawness because I wanted to
make sure readers were comfortable. I wanted the message to
(08:52):
reach as many as possible, and I don't regret the
stories I've told. I'm proud of every single one of them.
But the filter's now gone. And here's the hard truth.
If you still need convincing of my humanity in twenty
twenty five, I say this with all respect, you probably
(09:15):
aren't going to get it. Keep your coins, find your
own Damascus road. You need divine intervention. I'm not Saint Peter.
I'm not standing at the gate any longer waiting to
explain myself for my people to you. If you want
my knowledge, you're going to have to do the work yourself.
(09:39):
This new season, this new phase, my stories will be
as unapologetic and as free as they've ever been, because
I'm a storyteller, and with that comes a duty to
honor my people, to carry the sagas of our ancestors,
to bridge the distance from over yonder and back to
(10:02):
write here. Of course, I want everyone to feel welcome
reading my books. I understand I live in a system
I didn't build, but I'm here and I intend to win.
But my stories there for my people. And if you're
still listening, you are my people. I write for you,
(10:26):
I labor for you, I see you I'm ready to
move in a just and I will be your guide
to happier after happy for now, or to some bigger
definition of freedom and faith? What say you? What say you?
(10:47):
Some books to guide you in your quest for more
authentic storytelling are We Do This Till We Free Us
by Mariam Kaba. These are essay on abolition and hope,
but also how storytelling and imagination drive social change. Emergent
(11:07):
Strategy Shaping Change, Changing Worlds by Adrian Marie Brown is
a guide to embracing change and creativity rooted in community
and freedom. Now for some fiction titles. The Prophets by
Robert Jones Junior. This is a deeply poetic novel about
black love and resistance set during slavery, but centered on
(11:31):
love and humanity, not suffering. Blood Child and Other Stories
by Octavia Butler is speculative short stories about survival, community
and power dynamics. Ringshah by p Jelly Clark a daring,
genre bending novel mixing horror history and black resistance during
(11:56):
the Jim Crow era, very much like Centers and of
course Island Queen by Vanessa Riley. This is a real
life figure old with dignity, richness, and depth. Show notes
include a list of the books mentioned in this broadcast.
(12:18):
This week, I'm highlighting East City Bookshop do their website
and bookshop dot org. You can find my notes on
substack or my website Vanessiley dot com under the podcast
link in the about tab. Enjoying the vibe, go ahead
and like this episode and subscribe to write a passage
(12:40):
so you never miss a moment. Thank you for listening.
Hopefully you'll come again. This is Vanessa Riley
Welcome to the Rite of Passage with Vanessa Riley, the
podcast where storytelling meets passion in every page turns into
a new adventure. I'm your host, Vanessa Riley, and together
we'll dive deep into untold histories, reflect on current events
through a historical lands, share behind the scenes writing insights,
(00:29):
and explore the ups and downs of the author's journey
from rich historical novels to unforgettable characters to pop culture's
intrusion on the written word. Hey, we're going to explore
it all. So grab your pen, your notebook, and let's
begin our journey through the written word. Let's start your
(00:54):
right of passage. Time to move, time and a season
for everything. The real question is are you ready to
move right now? It's a scary time to be a
black creative. Honestly, it's a scary time for everybody in
the arts. I've shared in previous episode how the Canva
(01:21):
bots came for me. They told me that the word
slavery was political and banned in their system of tools.
Banning books is all the rage, banning concepts or ideas,
Stopping the writer or artists at the very beginning is unfathomable.
(01:45):
You might say, Vanessa, AI and bots are just part
of the times. You need to roll with it, you
need to move with it. And yes, there are many
great uses for AI in research and algorithmic approaches. But
until we figure out how to train AI without stealing
(02:06):
from artists and writers, we're going to continue to have
a problem. If you tell me that the season we're
in now involves AI writing novels and creating drawings and
graphics to replace artists, I will encourage you to consider
(02:28):
the following. Nothing can replace human creativity, authenticity, and zeal.
Those impacted by theft or imitation must press boundaries, pursue
legal actions when necessary, and most importantly, out last the wave.
(02:56):
Sometimes winning is simply about longevity. Outlasting your haters is
definitely one way to gain victory for those who follow me.
I'm Veneziley. I write in three genres historical fiction, historical romance,
and mystery. Lately, in the book world, I've seen so
(03:16):
many friends, so many writers like myself who focus on
history getting hurt. Series are being cut short, book options
aren't being picked up. Doors that were once wide open
are now being slam shut. There are many reasons, they
(03:39):
tell us, the market is soft, They whisper. There are
enough black books right now. They say, history, the kind
that reveals hidden figures and rich, complicated lives, is simply
being gutted or looted or dismissed. For someone like me
(04:03):
who loves history and is just now finding my footing
in historical fiction, it's dark. It's absolutely terrifying. The visual arts,
films and TV have also suffered. In January, I heard
similar feedback from filmmakers. Hollywood is still recovering. They say,
(04:26):
budgets are tight, risk tolerance is low. Historical pieces, they
say are too hard to place, too expensive, too niche.
And then everyone gets dazzled by Ryan Coogler Sinners, a
historical piece set in the nineteen thirties that genre bens
(04:49):
horror and drama. The film is a hit. At the
time of this podcast, Sinners has grossed over one hundred
and sixty one million dollars and is now projected to
gross between three hundred to four hundred million. A diverse
audience of moviegoers, black, white, Asian, and more, people from
(05:10):
all walks of life are coming together to experience this
masterpiece of storytelling. Ryan Coogler, I salute you. You had
a daring vision, found or created the systems and opportunities
to execute it, and made magic. Now is the time
(05:31):
of opportunity. We have to shake off our fears and create.
We must figure out new ways to tell the stories
burning in our souls, to innovate, to evolve. That is
the path. Finding our way through the wilderness is the answer.
(05:54):
Sinners shows us the way, not just by being excellent
in storytorytelling, photography, cinematography, and research, but by knowing exactly
who the story was for. Ryan his team pushed the
right buttons, the necessary buttons. The heart of the film
(06:16):
is black centered storytelling, the Jim Crow South, inclusivity and vampires,
because when you know who you're speaking to and what
you want to say, you don't have to dilute the
truth to make it palatable. As a Black creative, I'm
(06:36):
often pressured to center pain and trauma in my stories
because that is what some believe and still desire. They
think that's what sells. Ryan Coogler's Centers proves that de
escalating trauma works. It sells even in the scariest genres.
(07:03):
He took care in how the story was told, care
in how every scene was shot, here in the research.
The respect he cast with authenticity, from hair to skin
to close to dialogue. He didn't slap diversity on just
(07:25):
for cloud. The script lived it to succeed. Only by
limiting our stories to an audience that believes in our
humanity through our suffering is inexcusable. We must push boundaries,
(07:45):
push different buttons. I believe it is our mission to
find new ways to share the lessons of the past
without reducing ourselves to victims or spectacles. And if Sinners
has taught us anything, it's this audience will reward care,
they will reward newness, They will reward stories told with humanity,
(08:10):
dignity and love. When I first started writing, my mission
was simple, educate the world about the history of black
people across the diaspor show our humanity through love stories.
But missions shift with the seasons. Right now, for me
(08:30):
and this pen or keyboard, it's time to move, to
be more daring, to try to approach us to story.
Looking back, I know there were times I softened words,
edited seems, choke tenderness over rawness because I wanted to
make sure readers were comfortable. I wanted the message to
(08:52):
reach as many as possible, and I don't regret the
stories I've told. I'm proud of every single one of them.
But the filter's now gone. And here's the hard truth.
If you still need convincing of my humanity in twenty
twenty five, I say this with all respect, you probably
(09:15):
aren't going to get it. Keep your coins, find your
own Damascus road. You need divine intervention. I'm not Saint Peter.
I'm not standing at the gate any longer waiting to
explain myself for my people to you. If you want
my knowledge, you're going to have to do the work yourself.
(09:39):
This new season, this new phase, my stories will be
as unapologetic and as free as they've ever been, because
I'm a storyteller, and with that comes a duty to
honor my people, to carry the sagas of our ancestors,
to bridge the distance from over yonder and back to
(10:02):
write here. Of course, I want everyone to feel welcome
reading my books. I understand I live in a system
I didn't build, but I'm here and I intend to win.
But my stories there for my people. And if you're
still listening, you are my people. I write for you,
(10:26):
I labor for you, I see you I'm ready to
move in a just and I will be your guide
to happier after happy for now, or to some bigger
definition of freedom and faith? What say you? What say you?
(10:47):
Some books to guide you in your quest for more
authentic storytelling are We Do This Till We Free Us
by Mariam Kaba. These are essay on abolition and hope,
but also how storytelling and imagination drive social change. Emergent
(11:07):
Strategy Shaping Change, Changing Worlds by Adrian Marie Brown is
a guide to embracing change and creativity rooted in community
and freedom. Now for some fiction titles. The Prophets by
Robert Jones Junior. This is a deeply poetic novel about
black love and resistance set during slavery, but centered on
(11:31):
love and humanity, not suffering. Blood Child and Other Stories
by Octavia Butler is speculative short stories about survival, community
and power dynamics. Ringshah by p Jelly Clark a daring,
genre bending novel mixing horror history and black resistance during
(11:56):
the Jim Crow era, very much like Centers and of
course Island Queen by Vanessa Riley. This is a real
life figure old with dignity, richness, and depth. Show notes
include a list of the books mentioned in this broadcast.
(12:18):
This week, I'm highlighting East City Bookshop do their website
and bookshop dot org. You can find my notes on
substack or my website Vanessiley dot com under the podcast
link in the about tab. Enjoying the vibe, go ahead
and like this episode and subscribe to write a passage
(12:40):
so you never miss a moment. Thank you for listening.
Hopefully you'll come again. This is Vanessa Riley
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