May 7, 2025 • 45 mins
Click Here to ask your book writing and publishing questions!
She’s back! One of my all-time favorite guests, Neely Tubati-Alexander, returns to talk about her third novel, Courtroom Drama. As always, she brings a refreshing, no-nonsense take on staying creative and productive in the unpredictable world of publishing.
INSIDE THE EPISODE
📚 Why Neely sprints through her first drafts instead of obsessing over every word
📚 How she embraces her "pantser" style (yep, she often writes the beginning and end first, with no outline in sight)
📚 What it’s really like to write books in the cracks of everyday life, and how reality TV, genre-hopping, and real-life fascinations all sneak into her stories
📚 Using the writing of the next book to stay grounded when the release of the current one is causing stress
📚 Why research is her secret creative fuel, from courtroom procedures to video game design
📚 How the evolution of publishing is finally making room for authors to explore their full range of creativith
Neely’s approach is honest, energizing, and a great reminder that there’s no one “right” way to do this writing thing.
Follow Neely on Instagram @NeelyAlexanderWrites and look for Courtroom Drama releasing May 20th, 2025 from HarperCollins.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Elizabeth Lyons than absolutely necessary Because,
let's face it, some overthinking, second-guessing and overwhelm
is going to come with theterritory, if you're anything
like me.
In short, I love books and Ibelieve that story and shared
perspective are two of the mostimpactful ways we connect with
one another.
A few things I don't believe inGimmicks, magic bullets and
(00:42):
swoon-worthy results withoutcontext, as in be sure to reveal
that a result took eight yearsor required a $30,000 investment
in ads, because those detailsare just as important.
What I believe in most as anauthor, the long game, is the
shortcut For more book writingand publishing.
Tips and solutions.
Visit publishaprofitablebookcomor visit me over on Instagram
(01:06):
at ElizabethLionsAuthor.
Hi everybody and welcome backor welcome in.
For quite some time, I almostreferred to this podcast as the
Neely Show, because I talkedabout and continue to talk about
today's guest so often that italmost felt like it was the Liz
(01:26):
and Neely show.
Neely Toubati, alexander and Imet.
It was probably just over twoyears ago.
Her first book, Love Buzz, wascoming out, and she reached out
to me over Instagram.
She was looking for otherauthors in the Phoenix area and
said, hey, you want to meet forlunch?
And that was the beginning andthe rest is history, because
after that lunch I just thoughtI can't not have this person in
(01:49):
my life on the regular.
She's been such an inspirationto me as I work on my first
novel which, as it turns out, isa lot harder for me than
nonfiction and I've mentionedher multiple times as my current
critique partner, althoughshe's probably wondering if she
still has that role because shehas not seen pages from me in
many, many months.
But I swear they're coming.
(02:11):
I swear they're coming.
So I was very excited, and I'malways very excited to have an
opportunity to chat with her.
But I'm most excited probablywhen it has to do with the
release of yet another book.
Neely's third book, courtroomDrama, comes out May 20th of
2025 with HarperCollins, and Iwas lucky enough to be able to
read a bit of it earlier on and,of course, loved every word and
(02:33):
couldn't wait for the thing tocome out.
So I'm going to need May 20thto get here already.
She's just such an honest,down-to-earth, real person and I
know how much in previousepisodes listeners have
appreciated her real-world,honest, true-to-life exploration
of what she's navigated in thepublishing world, how she's
(02:55):
navigated it, how it's changedfrom book to book, what she's
expected, what she's beensurprised by all those sorts of
things.
So all of the links to Neely'sbooks and social media and
website and et cetera are in theshow notes.
Let's just get right on withthe conversation.
(03:16):
Okay, courtroom is three, right?
Yes, maybe seven minutes ago,before I got on here, I was like
, is it four or is it three?
And then I thought, oh my God,it's because I had you read like
books that aren't out yet.
I know, and that's why I justfeel so excited and privileged
to be your friend.
Like, do you realize?
This is so fun?
Because I feel like I'vewitnessed.
(03:38):
I'm not the only one, but Ilike to sometimes think I am.
I've witnessed.
The whole journey we first metwas right just before love buzz
came out.
I totally remember.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, yeah, yes, I very much was like, as I was
like thinking about you knowjumping on here.
I was like gosh, we've reallyyou've been with me through this
whole process.
It's so fun as you know, I'malso writing this disto mance um
that I've been like in thisworld like rushing to the finish
line, so that we can sort ofcapitalize on this wave that's
(04:09):
happening right now, cause Inever feel like I'm hitting at
the right time, which is part ofthe thing that you can't
control with the market, andthis one feels like, for the
first time, potentially, I willbe, you know, if we can, if we
can get it right.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Let me interrupt you for a second Cause I asked
somebody else this the other day, and then I was thinking of our
mutual friend Crystal.
Do you think that spec, do youthink dystopian, is part of spec
fiction?
Do you think of it that way?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I'm so new to this specific space that I don't even
have an answer for that, likeI'm trying to learn it myself
through the process of writingit and like looking for comps
and trying to read in the space.
And there are a lot of YA booksthat are kind of in this space.
Um, I'm finding the adult ones,but they're they're not.
(04:55):
There aren't as many as youthink.
But then I'm starting to see adeal announcements come through
for more and more like trulydystopian romance, okay, like in
that genre.
So it's exciting, like it'sstarting to.
But, yeah, speculative andsci-fi are very, very closely
aligned a lot of times.
But what you specifically wouldcall dystopian versus sci-fi, I
(05:17):
think it really comes down tolike Is it more of like an end
of world or new world type ofscenario?
And is there like Okay, I don'tknow more of like an end of
world or new world type ofscenario?
And is there like this Okay, Idon't know.
I mean, mine definitely hassci-fi in it too.
So now you're making me wonder.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You know Well, no, and I'm not trying to, you know.
So yesterday I talked to well,it comes out tomorrow.
But Noelle Stark, who is in herdebut, love Camera Action,
comes out today, actually todaybeing the 22nd, and comes out
today, actually today being the22nd and now she's working on
spec fiction.
So I asked her okay, what isyour definition of spec fiction?
(05:53):
And she said really anythingthat's like not of this world,
but then I guess dystopian sorryI'm sidetracking us, but
dystopian could still be of thisworld.
It's just like the world isending, yeah, and it's
interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I mean, I I don't even know that I have a good
explanation for my own book interms of where it's in that
space.
So that's fine, because that'swhere we all start right,
because either way, I'm kind ofshifting gears a little bit and
this would be like more of ashift from the romance, the you
know romantic comedy,contemporary romance space, and
so I was like, well, shit, thenI got to get this book written.
(06:28):
So now I'm in a mad dash tofinish it so that we can get it
out on sub, and I've givenmyself unrealistic deadlines and
timelines to try to completethis, and so, yeah, now I'm just
like trying to finalize it andget it over to my agent so she
can read it.
She read the first 100 pages,gave me notes, but this is like
the fastest process I've everhad, the earliest I've ever
(06:51):
shared pages.
Like it's been a just completewhirlwind of now sell the
distomance, possibly as atrilogy, and then, on the heels
of that, be able to then go takehopefully it's like a nice you
know deal and then, on the heelsof that, be able to then go
take hopefully it's like a niceyou know deal and then, on the
heels of that, be able to sell,jump kind of separately.
That's my hope.
(07:12):
I haven't really discussed thatwith my agents, but in my mind
We'll tell Elizabeth not theother Elizabeth not to listen to
this.
Nevermind, that's how it's goingto go.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So one thing that's always amazed me about you is
your ability to just you justget it written, and you've
always said that to me.
Like Liz, just rush to thefinish line, and then you know.
Jesse Fine has famously saidquickly and poorly, and I don't
know why, I can't take any ofyour advice, but I can't
Nevertheless.
From love buzz to we'll talkabout courtroom in a minute.
(07:47):
But since you're switchinggenres so much, going into the
dystopian, whatever we want tocall it, how do you do that?
What's your discipline practiceto get there without?
Does it help that you have adeadline, or do you not even
have?
Is it a self-imposed deadlineor is your agent giving you a
deadline?
What's going on here?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Well, more often than not it's self-imposed.
Okay, part of that has been mypersonal goal of a book a year,
which, you know, switchinggenres, switching houses may not
happen this time and I have tojust sort of accept that that.
You know, this is one of thethings in publishing that you
can't control, but a lot of itis just my sort of sheer, like I
need to push these things overthe finish line because I want
(08:28):
this to be my full time careerand I know that takes a backlist
and that takes continuation andit really is the marathon of it
all.
That's where the longevitycomes from is just continuing to
put books out right.
So it's a lot of the pressurethat I put on myself, but I
can't say it's always healthyeither.
You know I'm not necessarilysucceeding in the other areas of
(08:52):
my life on all occasions as Itry to do this in in
unreasonable timelines.
And I do worry that if you arerushing a process, are you
getting the best version of abook and I think you could
debate either way of.
You know, in some instances,yes, you absolutely need the
time to let something settle andgive it space so your mind can
(09:14):
work.
And in other components,especially in that with this
book that I'm writing right now,it's helpful, I think, to stay
in the world, because there areso many components of world
building in this that I don'thave to do in contemporary
romance, and so it's alreadyhard enough to keep track of all
of these things.
And, as you know, I'm a pantser, and so it's all just sort of
(09:36):
up here and I will go back andsay, okay, wait, what is the
world building that I've done onthis XYZ piece?
But a big component of it isjust living in my head, and so
staying really close to it on adaily basis has actually helped
me stay more consistent in thedraft, or at least that's what
I'm telling myself as I try todo this really quickly.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
So this concept of world building really fascinates
me.
I'm convinced I'm not someonewho would be capable of doing it
.
It just feels almost like youhave too much creativity
available to you and I amsomeone who might like.
It's like pulling on a loosethread of a sweater and then it
(10:22):
just never ends.
I feel like that's theexperience I would have.
So what is that process, I mean?
Is it like I just imagine?
Do you just imagine a place orlike?
What does that even mean really, when people are like world
building?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Well, it's interesting because I never
thought I would be writing bookslike in this sci-fi distomance
space.
I've always considered myself acontemporary author, but it's
been really fun to explore and Ithink the benefit of that is
there are no rules.
So, as I've writtencontemporary, I'm doing research
on does this restaurant stillexist?
(10:58):
And when you walk down thisstreet, I got to get it right.
Right, it has to look exactlyand be described exactly how it
is, whereas in a world of yourown making, you really get to
write all of your own rules andso the street can look however I
want the street to look.
You know, that's kind ofinteresting, very um freeing.
(11:19):
Yeah, build your own, becauseyou don't.
You aren't held to any sort ofstandard except for your own and
the ones that you create.
But on the other hand, it issort of reining it in between
the creativity needed to createa world versus going kind of out
still having the tether to justthese kind of core basic things
that a reader can understandand not going too far off the
(11:41):
deep end to lose people.
I think that's sort of aconstant struggle and battle of
of building it correctly.
But yeah, I've.
I found it freeing to not haveto exist in the real world yeah,
no kidding, right.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
is it also just like, whereas with your contemporary
work you need to make sure thatyou're staying consistent and
true to the place that you are,where the characters are, with
world building, do you have tomake sure that you're not
getting inconsistent, like as itprogresses?
Is that kind of just anotherlayer, like do you find that
(12:18):
challenging or fascinating orfun, or are you a masochist or
what?
What goes on there?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
all of the above.
Yeah, I think we, as you, asyou know, I'm a pantser and so
world building as a pantser hasproven challenging right,
because some things you maydecide halfway through drafting
and then you need to go back andadd, plant those seeds and make
sure the things you've writtenare consistent with that, and
I've had to do that severaltimes.
(12:43):
Sometimes it's a line,sometimes it's rewriting a whole
scene.
So, yeah, would it have beeneasier potentially to outline?
Yes, but I am stubborn and Iwill continue my way through it
and and knowing that it makesfor, you know, the clunky first
draft that it is, but I have had, I have found myself having to
(13:03):
go back on many an occasion tofill something in that I only
sort of discovered or realizedor incorporated halfway through.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Are the people that you run it by different than the
people that you run?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
We're going to get to courtroom in a second, but the
contemporary stuff too, yeah, sothere are a few people who I
think can and will and do giveme amazing feedback, no matter
what it is that I will lean on,and this is a small few group of
people that I would share, thatI share with.
But, um, yeah, I did rely onthe only person who's read
beside my agent at this point isa romanticist author, okay, and
(13:44):
who knows and understands thisspace and world building and and
all of that.
So, yeah, that that has shifteda bit, um, and I think,
rightfully so yeah, no, thatmakes sense.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Okay, so I want to come back to courtroom.
What is the release date forthis?
May 20th?
Okay, I knew it was coming soonbecause I got your tour
schedule this morning, or atleast the beginning of it, and
you are back to back to back toback to back, and why is
literally sold out and I do nothave a spot.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Well, there are several Arizona locations this
time, which is fun, which is socool, because when Love Buzz
came out, literally was not open, I know the Jaya house was not
open, so it's really reallybookish shop was not open, right
.
So it's really cool now to beable to have so many more local
spots to hit, which is reallyexciting because they weren't
(14:37):
they literally didn't exist whenmy first book came out just
three years ago.
So that's really cool.
But yeah, there's, there's likea lot of AZ spots, which is
exciting.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You know, anybody who watched it was called Jury Duty
, right the infamous.
Well, I don't know if it'sinfamous, but it was a great.
Was it on Netflix?
What was that on?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
No, it was on like um freebie or something.
It was not one of the main.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
It wasn't the one, okay.
Yeah, I mean I bet they'reregretting that now, but anyway,
with um Ronald Ronald Gladden,gladden, right, who was the jury
, on the jury, and he thought itwas a real trial.
But it wasn't a real trial andJames Marsden was on, it was a
whole thing and if peoplehaven't watched it is it still
on, but I think you can stillwatch it.
Yeah, I mean, I didn't think Iwas gonna get sucked in and I
(15:20):
got so sucked in fantastic andthey just announced a season two
.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
They did, they did.
So I don't know how they'regonna do it.
I don't know if right part ofit or not, or if they'll just
sort of start a completelydifferent cast.
I don't know how you keep thesame cast, but uh, yeah, I'll be
really, really interested tosee how it goes for a second
season so he blurbed, which isjust fun, I mean was that just
fun, like, oh, it was so fun andit's so funny, because you
(15:46):
always are like, okay, what outof the box things can we do
right, yeah ask authors to blurband I was like you know we were
thinking about who are the realhousewives or you know people
from some of the comps and someof the shows that would be fun
and you might as well make theask.
You know the worst they're goingto say is no or not respond,
and then you're no worse offthan you were.
And he was so gracious and readand blurbed and, you know,
(16:10):
asked for a couple copies forhis girlfriend.
It was just so fun.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So yeah, that was a really fun.
Fun.
That's something that you dothat I admire, is you?
Just?
You just reach out to people,like I remember when World came
out in Not so Perfect World andyou wanted to reach out to
various influencers who youreally believed would enjoy the
book, like you knew that theyread that style of book and you
(16:36):
just reached out and to yourpoint.
Sometimes that lands andsometimes it doesn't, and it
usually has nothing to do withyou, it's just what it is.
But do you enjoy the marketingside of it?
I'm not particularly Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I mean I will say I don't not enjoy it.
It doesn't come naturally to me, right?
Especially like theself-promotion piece, right.
I think I'm of an age wherethat is not something that is
normal or will ever sort of feelnormal to me, yeah.
But, I will say that you knowpublishing.
One of the things you learn asyou go this being my third book
(17:14):
now coming out is whatpublishing can do and will do,
and perhaps what they can't andwon't.
And so you sort of identify theareas where it would behoove you
to fill in the blanks a littlebit, and part of that is, you
know, sliding into someone's DMsif there's a person that
wouldn't necessarily be on,let's say, Harper's list of
(17:35):
influencers because they're notnecessarily book focused right,
or because they are in a nicheof something that is in your
book, that has nothing to dowith sort of the book world but
would make a good overlap.
So, yeah, I tend to find thatevery, with every book, there is
something that is kind ofunique.
Or and that's what's fun tooabout each new book is that
(17:55):
every process feels a little bitdifferent.
There's always something thatit feels unique or fresh or
interesting that you can explore, um, from a, from the marketing
and publicity side, that isunique to that specific book so,
from a writing standpoint, whatdo you feel like changed most
between book one and courtroom?
(18:15):
Oh gosh, I'd like to think thatas an author, I get better with
every book.
Just in terms of my writing, Ido think it has become slightly
easier and I know not everyauthor would say that I'm sure
it's coming at some future pointwhere I sit down to write a
book and I just am like oh, mygosh it's gone.
(18:37):
I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Call me when that happens, because I would just
like to know that it happened,because so far that is not my
experience with you.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
It's been.
You know so, but I think a lotof it has to do with, like, the
tricks and the way that youlearn yourself as an author, and
that comes from writing thebook.
So it's not even about whetheryour writing has improved or
anything like that.
It's also more about learninghow to work with yourself
instead of against yourself, anddoing the things that work for
(19:07):
you.
I you we've talked about thisbefore I'm a pantser.
I do that because it's more funto write that way for me.
If I were to outline a book,that would take some of the joy
and interest out of it andperhaps make me less committed
and motivated to open mycomputer.
Every day.
I jump around as I'm writingbecause I go to whatever I think
(19:28):
is particularly interesting inthat moment, and these are the
things that keep me from gettingwriter's block or, you know,
avoiding opening the draft, andso it's a lot of learning what
works for you and leveragingthose things and making it okay
to do those things for yourself,and I think that awareness and
understanding of your ownprocess comes from writing more
(19:50):
books.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So how do you?
When you talk about writingwhat you want to write I know
how that works for people whohave an outline right, because
they can just pick something onthe outline that feels fun to
write about today but how do youdo that when you're not, when
you're pantsing it and you don'teven know, like is it just a
scene that you see and you justfigure out later how it all
comes together?
(20:12):
How do you do that?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, In part I think it's what you described.
Just because you don't write anoutline down on paper doesn't
mean that you don't sort of havea general that's true.
That's true, and so I don'tnecessarily know all of the
connective tissue of how we getfrom here to here, but I know
both of these things exist, orboth of these points exist, and
so it's really more just theokay.
(20:34):
Well, I know the scene iscoming and I'm excited to write
it.
I'm just going to write it andthen I'll figure out how we get
here.
And does that mean I'll have togo back and edit it a little
bit later because I didn't writeit quite right once I figure
out what that connective tissueis?
Yeah, probably, but it keeps mewriting and it keeps me going
forward.
So it's a little bit of both, Iwould say.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
How long or at what point do you typically and this
obviously can change- but knowwhat the end is going to be.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I usually will know the beginning and the end and
even write them as pretty muchthe first scenes, really, and it
can change and sometimes thatscene will stay but it'll get
moved, or like the ending scenewill stay and get moved up, or,
you know it'll change in somecapacity, the ending scene will
stay and get moved up, or, um,you know it'll change in some
capacity, but I usually havewritten opening scene and ending
scene, ish, really early onokay, so then it's just figuring
(21:29):
out like the connective, the inbetween.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, oh, that's kind of fun.
Maybe I should write the endingscene.
Every time I talk to you.
I'm like maybe this is theproblem.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Well, you and I have talked about this as well.
You know, the people that Ifind in my life who struggle the
most to get a draft completedare people who are editors, who
do some sort of editing work intheir real life, because they
are used to looking forperfection and creating
perfection and it's really hardto get out of your own way.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I think too, like you know, it's interesting and I
think it's counterintuitive,because I've always sort of been
hard on myself, because as aneditor I think I should be able
to more easily figure out okay,we're going to go from this beat
to this beat or whateverterminology you want to use.
But you just said somethinginteresting.
I think it's like a blank slateis just more challenging for me
(22:30):
than if someone gives me abunch of puzzle pieces.
A bunch of puzzle pieces, I canreadily kind of try to figure
out where they go, like what'san edge, what's a middle, what
goes over it with the flowerystuff.
But if, if, if I have nothingand some people are the exact
opposite, where they love thatblank page, it's like I don't
(22:53):
know, do you have a?
Do you get like when you'regoing?
Does that give you more andmore motivation?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, I've had this conversation with other authors
too and it is true, like peopleeither love the editing phase
and hate the drafting phase, orvice versa.
I love drafting phase becausethere you first like there are
no rules, you just get to go andkind of be in an unconscious
stream and write whatever youwant to write and let it be ugly
and messy, and I'm comfortablewith that.
(23:20):
Yeah, and a part of that islike the trust in yourself that
you will get it there at afuture, at a future state.
So, yeah, I love.
I love that editing to me isstill fun, but nothing replaces
sort of the magic of.
But I know a lot of authors whofeel opposite.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Well, and I remember when you said about Love Buzz I
think it was.
No, it wasn't Love Buzz, it wasthe book you wrote before Love
Buzz.
That didn't that sort of youstripped for parts, right, and
it went in different things.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Is that still making its way into new stuff or is it
kind of parked away for now?
I think I fully stripped it inmy first few books, but again, I
still don't think that it was awaste whatsoever.
Oh my God, no Right, I meanwe're just talking about.
I now find myself in a similarposition, even now, with a book
that is completed and I don'thave a plan for it.
I don't know exactly when andwhere and how it's going to get
published, or if it will.
So that doesn't stop.
(24:15):
You know necessarily if andwhen you get published or have
an agent or have a deal.
So it still is never, I don'tthink, a straight line.
Yeah yeah, so I'm in a similarsituation now.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, we've talked about this several times.
Like you know, people make theassumption that once you have an
agent or once you have a deal,you're kind of in the machine in
perpetuity, and you're really.
I don't believe this statement.
But the statement is you'reonly as good as your last book,
right?
Because there you never know ifyou're going to get a deal for
the next, the next one.
(24:52):
So what is your?
What is some of the greatest?
I guess not advice, becausethat sounds really trite, but
that you've incorporated intoyour mindset in this space to
keep yourself from feeling likeyour.
I don't want to say your worthis dependent, but I've just
heard people say you know, thisbook did so well of theirs and I
(25:16):
really thought this book waseven better, but the house
passed on it or my agent isn'tthrilled with it, and so now
they start really secondguessing and wondering if they
had like a one hit wonder typeof a situation.
And how do they move on fromthere without feeling like
they're starting all over again?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, it's so true that it's not a done deal just
because you get your agent oryour first book deal.
But I think, going back to yourprevious question around, like
what motivates you, this is abig part of it, right, which is
it's easy to put all your eggsin one basket of one book and
then be disappointed when itdoesn't deliver or how you
(25:56):
wanted it to or do the thingsthat you wanted or how you
wanted it to or do the thingsthat you wanted or expected it
for it to do.
The best remedy for that for meis having my head down working
on the next thing, and so in alot of ways, it is a coping
mechanism on the next bookbecause it's keeping me from
spiraling about the one that.
So, for example, you know thecourtroom drama is coming out in
(26:17):
in less than a month.
We're shoring up details for atour.
You know I could be looking atnumbers constantly, I could be
doing all of these things, butinstead I'm really focused on
getting this next book completed.
So it does take some of thepressure off of of having to
think about sort of all of thesethings of oh gosh, if this book
(26:39):
doesn't do well, or you knowwhat it's going to mean for my
career and right, it's, it'sthat, it's that, that just keep
going type of mentality, I think.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, and more often than not, that's what I'm
hearing.
It's not a hundred percent, butit's like well, so what are you
working on now?
The next project you know whilethis one is are you?
I can't remember if we've evertalked about this.
Are you an everyday writer?
I try to be Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I can't say that I am consistently, but I try to be?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Can you do it in short bursts or do you need?
Especially with this worldbuilding thing, do you need time
to kind?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
of get into it, and then the ideal would be to have
large chunks of time, but that'sjust not always feasible.
I will write sitting in thepickup line at school, I will
open it up and write a sentencewhile we're watching a
basketball game, like I, youknow.
You have to just sort of makethe time, and I think that's
another piece that I see a lotof people struggle with, which
(27:34):
is I need to get my coffee setup and I need to have the mood
lighting and I need to have andI get it right.
That's ideal situation, butlife doesn't allow that most
more often than not.
So I do what I can where I can,and I it's truthfully, most of
my books are written in stolenmoments.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Like in your notes app.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, do you incorporate stuff that happens
around you?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, totally.
I think every author does,right.
I mean, we're really justobservers of the world and
everything that you're puttinginto your book is something that
you consciously orsubconsciously have experienced
in some capacity.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
So yeah, absolutely, I eavesdrop on people's
conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Oh, 1000% yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, I'm like I don't know if I can make up
dialogue that good, so I'm hereand see everything.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, I am listening to the table next to me is
conversation, while alsoengaging with you, right, while
also seeing what the hostess isdoing.
Yeah, I'm, I'm very much thatperson.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
This is like what we were trained for as moms.
Yeah, I feel we can hear onething.
We have two ears that, ofcourse, listen independently,
and then our eyes, oh yeah, it'sa whole thing.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
It's like that funny.
You know how the there's likethat thing where a guy sits
facing the door so that if thereis like a something that were
to happen, I prefer taking thatseat.
I'm like I will notice it wayearlier than you ever would.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, yeah, as people are coming in, you're like I
will notice it way earlier thanyou ever would.
Yeah, yeah, as people arecoming in, you're like, well,
I'm going to need them to sitover it.
This looks like it's going tobe a good conversation.
I just I love listening topeople talk too.
You know, it's just fascinating.
It kind of is Okay.
So what are you most excitedabout with courtroom?
That either you weren't excitedabout or, like maybe something
(29:28):
you were nervous about about theother two, or just in general
what am I excited about?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
well, I think, um, with this book I it's really
things that I enjoy and not tosay that there weren't those
things in my first two books.
But, like I love reality tv andso wanting to put little Easter
eggs in it for people who areBravo fans and who watch Real
Housewives or Vanderpump orwhatever it is there's, there
(29:54):
are Easter eggs all over thisbook, and so that was really fun
, because it was sort of like asecret code for people who love
those shows, like I do, whichwas really fun.
And so what's your favorite?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
one.
Do you have a favorite?
Real Housewives?
I do, which was really fun.
And so what's your favorite?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
one.
Do you have a favorite?
Housewives, yeah, or anyreality show, oh gosh, I.
I was a big Vanderpump rulesfan, um, so I'm sad that's over.
But I, what?
Are you watching the Valley?
I am watching the Valley, eventhough I can't stand Jax Taylor
and I feel like that's just.
I hate supporting him, evenwith a view, but I watch it.
And then Real Housewives.
(30:28):
I love Beverly Hills.
I think Dorit had her momentthis season.
Who?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
did.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Dorit.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Oh, I think I didn't see this season.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Okay, yeah, she came into her own this season.
Okay, I love Bose on thatseason as well.
She's been such a greataddition.
So so, yeah, there's a few thatI watch religiously, some that
I will pop in and out of, butthose are a few of the ones that
I watch pretty closely.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
And how much did that influence?
I mean, obviously it influenced, like the courtroom thing I
mean is predicated.
You want to give a high levelsummary here?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, so the main, the woman on trial.
So Cindy and Damon are the twomain characters.
They are jurors on what becomesa sequestered jury for a
high-profile murder trial.
And the woman on trial is areality TV star who is accused
of murdering her husband, andshe is on a show called
(31:23):
Authentic Moms of Malibu, whichis essentially built from the
Real Housewives franchise.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, well, in the beginning of it, because I've
read the, I don't know if it'schapter one or the, I'm not sure
, but when they're in the, allthe jurors are in the courtroom
and they're like you can see it,I can still see it, and it's
been months and months andmonths since I've read it it's.
I can't wait to read the fullthing, because it was so um, it
(31:52):
was just captivating.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, it was really fun towrite the courtroom components
of it and, um, you know, findingthat balance between the
courtroom scenes and the loverelationship is challenging
because you're trying tobasically write two books in one
and combine them together andhave them feel like one story
instead of separate stories.
So that was a challenge.
But yeah, it was really fun tosort of write the book that was
(32:17):
like an homage to it's dedicatedto the Bravo holics.
Like it was very much like youknow when they say, like write
the book that you want to read,this was this.
Was that for me?
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Are you the type of writer as though we can put you
all in, put us all into boxes,but where each book you want to
challenge yourself to dosomething different?
Is that intentional that you dothat?
It's not necessarilyintentional, but it always
happens, it always happens.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
There's one point in a book where I think, oh shit,
why did I do this?
And then I have, you know, I'mdoing research on something that
I know nothing about in world.
It was video game design, whichI have.
No, you know, I don't playvideo games.
I had no knowledge of that.
But then, you know, had to divedeep into that world.
And this one, it was thecourtroom component.
(33:04):
I've never served on a jury.
I I used to very much want towhen I was younger.
Um, I, you know, and it'syou're spending hours of time
researching very basic things.
They're gonna be one line inthe book, right?
So yeah, there's always acomponent.
And then you know in this bookthat we that I had you read that
has not seen the light of dayyet.
(33:24):
It was, it's set largely inPortugal and so it was a bunch
of research on Portugal.
So you know, there's alwaysthat something that you sort of
decide and then realize well,now I have to deliver on this.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I feel like that called for a trip to Portugal.
I'm going For real.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, well, my husband and I have been, which
was where some of the locationswere based on.
And then we are taking the kidsin June, which is part of why
my book tour is so back to back,because, ok, I was like I will
give you guys these two weeks,can we please do as much as we
can?
And then we are leavingdirectly after.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, oh my God that is I'm.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I really want to go to Portugal.
Yeah, this is my kids' firstout of the country trip, which
is really, you know, fun andspecial, and I will be doing a
ton of book research as I'mthere.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Okay, well, I can't wait to see photos of that.
Yeah, and have you tell me Ishould maybe move there.
So what are you reading now?
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Oh gosh.
Well, I've been trying to readin this space a little bit.
And then so Nisha J Tooley, whois a romance author, who's a
friend of mine we were talkingabout who do you have read now
for you in a different.
She's one of the people thatI've been relying on to read and
she made a great recommendationto me, which was so this book
(34:41):
is a little sexier than you knowmy contemporaries, and we were
talking about the scenes, andshe was like well, one thing
that I like to do, which Ithought was great advice, was
she's like I always listen tosomething that slightly like
goes there a little bit morethan what I'm writing as
inspiration, and I thought thatwas really great advice.
So I'm listening to SierraSimone's Salt Kiss right now
(35:04):
Okay, very horny book, it'sfantastic, um, and it's great
like sex scene 101.
Um, right, a really steamy,really fantastic sex scene.
So that's um, I'm listening tothat right now, sort of in
preparation for for some of thescenes in this one.
And then I just listened to.
(35:25):
I'm doing a lot of audiobooks.
Right now I have Oathbound,which I have not started.
I have the physical copy ofthat, which is that by Tracy
Dion.
It was a best-selling um series.
I am so excited to start it.
I've heard nothing but goodthings.
I have the book but I haven'tbeen able to start it yet.
Um, so yeah, I'm kind ofreading more in the sort of
fantasy yeah, opium, sci-fi,space.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I would like to start .
I never thought I would begin,or well, I've started reading.
I've only read one book in thatspace, which is Akatar, so it's
like very, it's like one right,but lately I just feel like I
want to try some more.
Yeah, and it's funny.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I didn't intentionally set out to to make
this shift, but you know, stateof the world, all of that.
You sit down and write a rom-comand I just didn't have it in me
.
I mean, I read, that's what I'msaying.
Yeah, I'm gold, and I think alot of people right now, like I
will tell you, writing this bookhas been a great place to
channel my rage and, just know,throw it into this book.
(36:26):
So it's been very cathartic, um, and I just don't think I would
have gotten that same releasein a contemporary romance right
now.
It doesn't mean that I won'tcircle back to that and I think
the great thing about publishingtoday, you know, in a previous
era you were sort of onlyallowed to write, you know, in
one space and if you were acontemporary romance author you
had to stay a contemporaryromance author.
(36:47):
And now we're seeing authorsmore and more explore new spaces
and write in different genresand it's more acceptable and
it's more widely seen and that'sreally exciting too, because
there are less limits in termsof what you can write now.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Right, well, and I think sometimes I'm actually.
I have one more question,actually, because I'm curious.
Sometimes, when authors switchgenres, they adopt a pen name so
that they can.
Maybe there are myriad reasonsthey do that, but you're clear,
are you not doing that, or haveyou not thought about it, or are
you?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I mean, I haven't gotten that far yet my first
inclination is no, yeah, justbecause I think it's all still
you, me, and like, if you lookat like a Geneva Rose, for
example she's an example ofsomeone who writes across
multiple spaces and you know shehas a great author brand that
is all still just her.
Yeah, I don't, I don't know, Ihaven't thought about it much,
(37:41):
but I would, I would like tokind of be like this is, you
know, give more access to peoplewho want to do the same thing,
you know?
Speaker 1 (37:50):
I.
I agree.
I can't maintain a memory ofwhat my name is like regularly,
so if I have to switch, itsounds like a lot of work, it
feels like all the Instagramhandles and all the different
things.
It just feels like a lot, Ithink.
I think it's there's no rightor wrong and and people who make
whatever choice, they makewhatever choice is best for them
(38:11):
, and I think that's the mostimportant thing.
It's just interesting to hearwhat people's thoughts are and I
love.
I love it when people will go acertain way, like you said, to
try to create more access forother people to make that same
choice.
They're not necessarilycomfortable being the leader in
doing that, but they're willingto ride on the.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
But it is a lot of what you just said, which is
that sounds like a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
It really does.
I mean, yeah, it's enough work,as you well know, by this point
to just maintain one authorplatform.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Well, I think it used to be again kind of of a
different era at this pointwhere you know it would have
been taboo to write romance orwrite whatever it is that you
write, and you know you'd wantto keep that very separate from,
like, your corporate job oryour corporate world.
My clients I work in HR, of allthings right my clients read my
books and you know I just don'tthink that that separation
(39:09):
really has to exist much anymore.
I know there are certain nicheareas where it does, and for
good reason, but yeah, I thinkmore and more it's acceptable
and for people to just have bemultifaceted in that way.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, I've definitely heard of people.
You know instances whereauthors are.
You know they work for a highcaliber company of some sort and
they need to separate those twothings.
But well, I cannot wait to haveall the dates written down back
to back to back.
I will go all the way toGilbert price?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Well, there's one in Scottsdale which shouldn't,
which isn't as far for you,right Poisoned Pen, oh it's as
far but.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I'll go there too.
Yeah, maybe I'll just get aroom over there.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
You might as well come to Tucson too.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Exactly.
I'll just move to the east sidefor four days.
It'll be great.
But thank you, and of courseyou have to come back.
You know this is normally theNeely show.
I mean, your name is brought upso much it's it's borderline.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I don't even know if it's embarrassing, but no, I'm
so grateful to you and it'sreally fun.
I think one of the best thingsabout this whole process and
journey and author journey is,like, all the people that you
meet and like have been with mesince my debut say it like it's
been so long ago.
It's not that long ago, but youknow how long ago was it,
though?
Um, so love buzz came out in2023, so it's actually only been
(40:36):
two years.
That's what I thought, okay,which it feels like a lifetime
ago because you keep churningout the books.
Yeah, it feels like a lifetimeago, but it's really fun and
cool to see, like you know,people who have, like, early
readers and people that youfound early in this process be
with you on it and be genuinely,you know, excited for the
(40:57):
developments, and, yeah, it'sone of the parts of this truly.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I agree, like just connecting with other people and
also these great bookstoresthat are opening.
Yeah, I can Like justconnecting with other people and
and also these great bookstoresthat are opening.
Yeah, I can't wait to get overthere for those.
We need some of those over here.
What's going on with the WestValley Move?
Speaker 2 (41:14):
or open a bookstore.
Oh, or open a bookstore.
I love that Could happen Wellthank you.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
I will put all of your links, as per usual, in the
show notes.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
If you enjoyed this episode,this is your friendly reminder
to follow or subscribe, leave aquick review and share it with
someone you know has a greatstory or message but isn't sure
what to do next.
Also, remember to check outpublishaprofitablebookcom for
(41:42):
book writing resources and tipsand to see all the ways we can
work together to get your bookout into the world.
Again, thanks so much forlistening and I'll talk with you
again soon.
Elizabeth Lyons than absolutely necessary Because,
let's face it, some overthinking, second-guessing and overwhelm
is going to come with theterritory, if you're anything
like me.
In short, I love books and Ibelieve that story and shared
perspective are two of the mostimpactful ways we connect with
one another.
A few things I don't believe inGimmicks, magic bullets and
(00:42):
swoon-worthy results withoutcontext, as in be sure to reveal
that a result took eight yearsor required a $30,000 investment
in ads, because those detailsare just as important.
What I believe in most as anauthor, the long game, is the
shortcut For more book writingand publishing.
Tips and solutions.
Visit publishaprofitablebookcomor visit me over on Instagram
(01:06):
at ElizabethLionsAuthor.
Hi everybody and welcome backor welcome in.
For quite some time, I almostreferred to this podcast as the
Neely Show, because I talkedabout and continue to talk about
today's guest so often that italmost felt like it was the Liz
(01:26):
and Neely show.
Neely Toubati, alexander and Imet.
It was probably just over twoyears ago.
Her first book, Love Buzz, wascoming out, and she reached out
to me over Instagram.
She was looking for otherauthors in the Phoenix area and
said, hey, you want to meet forlunch?
And that was the beginning andthe rest is history, because
after that lunch I just thoughtI can't not have this person in
(01:49):
my life on the regular.
She's been such an inspirationto me as I work on my first
novel which, as it turns out, isa lot harder for me than
nonfiction and I've mentionedher multiple times as my current
critique partner, althoughshe's probably wondering if she
still has that role because shehas not seen pages from me in
many, many months.
But I swear they're coming.
(02:11):
I swear they're coming.
So I was very excited, and I'malways very excited to have an
opportunity to chat with her.
But I'm most excited probablywhen it has to do with the
release of yet another book.
Neely's third book, courtroomDrama, comes out May 20th of
2025 with HarperCollins, and Iwas lucky enough to be able to
read a bit of it earlier on and,of course, loved every word and
(02:33):
couldn't wait for the thing tocome out.
So I'm going to need May 20thto get here already.
She's just such an honest,down-to-earth, real person and I
know how much in previousepisodes listeners have
appreciated her real-world,honest, true-to-life exploration
of what she's navigated in thepublishing world, how she's
(02:55):
navigated it, how it's changedfrom book to book, what she's
expected, what she's beensurprised by all those sorts of
things.
So all of the links to Neely'sbooks and social media and
website and et cetera are in theshow notes.
Let's just get right on withthe conversation.
(03:16):
Okay, courtroom is three, right?
Yes, maybe seven minutes ago,before I got on here, I was like
, is it four or is it three?
And then I thought, oh my God,it's because I had you read like
books that aren't out yet.
I know, and that's why I justfeel so excited and privileged
to be your friend.
Like, do you realize?
This is so fun?
Because I feel like I'vewitnessed.
(03:38):
I'm not the only one, but Ilike to sometimes think I am.
I've witnessed.
The whole journey we first metwas right just before love buzz
came out.
I totally remember.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yes, yeah, yes, I very much was like, as I was
like thinking about you knowjumping on here.
I was like gosh, we've reallyyou've been with me through this
whole process.
It's so fun as you know, I'malso writing this disto mance um
that I've been like in thisworld like rushing to the finish
line, so that we can sort ofcapitalize on this wave that's
(04:09):
happening right now, cause Inever feel like I'm hitting at
the right time, which is part ofthe thing that you can't
control with the market, andthis one feels like, for the
first time, potentially, I willbe, you know, if we can, if we
can get it right.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Let me interrupt you for a second Cause I asked
somebody else this the other day, and then I was thinking of our
mutual friend Crystal.
Do you think that spec, do youthink dystopian, is part of spec
fiction?
Do you think of it that way?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I'm so new to this specific space that I don't even
have an answer for that, likeI'm trying to learn it myself
through the process of writingit and like looking for comps
and trying to read in the space.
And there are a lot of YA booksthat are kind of in this space.
Um, I'm finding the adult ones,but they're they're not.
(04:55):
There aren't as many as youthink.
But then I'm starting to see adeal announcements come through
for more and more like trulydystopian romance, okay, like in
that genre.
So it's exciting, like it'sstarting to.
But, yeah, speculative andsci-fi are very, very closely
aligned a lot of times.
But what you specifically wouldcall dystopian versus sci-fi, I
(05:17):
think it really comes down tolike Is it more of like an end
of world or new world type ofscenario?
And is there like Okay, I don'tknow more of like an end of
world or new world type ofscenario?
And is there like this Okay, Idon't know.
I mean, mine definitely hassci-fi in it too.
So now you're making me wonder.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
You know Well, no, and I'm not trying to, you know.
So yesterday I talked to well,it comes out tomorrow.
But Noelle Stark, who is in herdebut, love Camera Action,
comes out today, actually todaybeing the 22nd, and comes out
today, actually today being the22nd and now she's working on
spec fiction.
So I asked her okay, what isyour definition of spec fiction?
(05:53):
And she said really anythingthat's like not of this world,
but then I guess dystopian sorryI'm sidetracking us, but
dystopian could still be of thisworld.
It's just like the world isending, yeah, and it's
interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I mean, I I don't even know that I have a good
explanation for my own book interms of where it's in that
space.
So that's fine, because that'swhere we all start right,
because either way, I'm kind ofshifting gears a little bit and
this would be like more of ashift from the romance, the you
know romantic comedy,contemporary romance space, and
so I was like, well, shit, thenI got to get this book written.
(06:28):
So now I'm in a mad dash tofinish it so that we can get it
out on sub, and I've givenmyself unrealistic deadlines and
timelines to try to completethis, and so, yeah, now I'm just
like trying to finalize it andget it over to my agent so she
can read it.
She read the first 100 pages,gave me notes, but this is like
the fastest process I've everhad, the earliest I've ever
(06:51):
shared pages.
Like it's been a just completewhirlwind of now sell the
distomance, possibly as atrilogy, and then, on the heels
of that, be able to then go takehopefully it's like a nice you
know deal and then, on the heelsof that, be able to then go
take hopefully it's like a niceyou know deal and then, on the
heels of that, be able to sell,jump kind of separately.
That's my hope.
(07:12):
I haven't really discussed thatwith my agents, but in my mind
We'll tell Elizabeth not theother Elizabeth not to listen to
this.
Nevermind, that's how it's goingto go.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
So one thing that's always amazed me about you is
your ability to just you justget it written, and you've
always said that to me.
Like Liz, just rush to thefinish line, and then you know.
Jesse Fine has famously saidquickly and poorly, and I don't
know why, I can't take any ofyour advice, but I can't
Nevertheless.
From love buzz to we'll talkabout courtroom in a minute.
(07:47):
But since you're switchinggenres so much, going into the
dystopian, whatever we want tocall it, how do you do that?
What's your discipline practiceto get there without?
Does it help that you have adeadline, or do you not even
have?
Is it a self-imposed deadlineor is your agent giving you a
deadline?
What's going on here?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Well, more often than not it's self-imposed.
Okay, part of that has been mypersonal goal of a book a year,
which, you know, switchinggenres, switching houses may not
happen this time and I have tojust sort of accept that that.
You know, this is one of thethings in publishing that you
can't control, but a lot of itis just my sort of sheer, like I
need to push these things overthe finish line because I want
(08:28):
this to be my full time careerand I know that takes a backlist
and that takes continuation andit really is the marathon of it
all.
That's where the longevitycomes from is just continuing to
put books out right.
So it's a lot of the pressurethat I put on myself, but I
can't say it's always healthyeither.
You know I'm not necessarilysucceeding in the other areas of
(08:52):
my life on all occasions as Itry to do this in in
unreasonable timelines.
And I do worry that if you arerushing a process, are you
getting the best version of abook and I think you could
debate either way of.
You know, in some instances,yes, you absolutely need the
time to let something settle andgive it space so your mind can
(09:14):
work.
And in other components,especially in that with this
book that I'm writing right now,it's helpful, I think, to stay
in the world, because there areso many components of world
building in this that I don'thave to do in contemporary
romance, and so it's alreadyhard enough to keep track of all
of these things.
And, as you know, I'm a pantser, and so it's all just sort of
(09:36):
up here and I will go back andsay, okay, wait, what is the
world building that I've done onthis XYZ piece?
But a big component of it isjust living in my head, and so
staying really close to it on adaily basis has actually helped
me stay more consistent in thedraft, or at least that's what
I'm telling myself as I try todo this really quickly.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
So this concept of world building really fascinates
me.
I'm convinced I'm not someonewho would be capable of doing it
.
It just feels almost like youhave too much creativity
available to you and I amsomeone who might like.
It's like pulling on a loosethread of a sweater and then it
(10:22):
just never ends.
I feel like that's theexperience I would have.
So what is that process, I mean?
Is it like I just imagine?
Do you just imagine a place orlike?
What does that even mean really, when people are like world
building?
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Well, it's interesting because I never
thought I would be writing bookslike in this sci-fi distomance
space.
I've always considered myself acontemporary author, but it's
been really fun to explore and Ithink the benefit of that is
there are no rules.
So, as I've writtencontemporary, I'm doing research
on does this restaurant stillexist?
(10:58):
And when you walk down thisstreet, I got to get it right.
Right, it has to look exactlyand be described exactly how it
is, whereas in a world of yourown making, you really get to
write all of your own rules andso the street can look however I
want the street to look.
You know, that's kind ofinteresting, very um freeing.
(11:19):
Yeah, build your own, becauseyou don't.
You aren't held to any sort ofstandard except for your own and
the ones that you create.
But on the other hand, it issort of reining it in between
the creativity needed to createa world versus going kind of out
still having the tether to justthese kind of core basic things
that a reader can understandand not going too far off the
(11:41):
deep end to lose people.
I think that's sort of aconstant struggle and battle of
of building it correctly.
But yeah, I've.
I found it freeing to not haveto exist in the real world yeah,
no kidding, right.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
is it also just like, whereas with your contemporary
work you need to make sure thatyou're staying consistent and
true to the place that you are,where the characters are, with
world building, do you have tomake sure that you're not
getting inconsistent, like as itprogresses?
Is that kind of just anotherlayer, like do you find that
(12:18):
challenging or fascinating orfun, or are you a masochist or
what?
What goes on there?
Speaker 2 (12:23):
all of the above.
Yeah, I think we, as you, asyou know, I'm a pantser and so
world building as a pantser hasproven challenging right,
because some things you maydecide halfway through drafting
and then you need to go back andadd, plant those seeds and make
sure the things you've writtenare consistent with that, and
I've had to do that severaltimes.
(12:43):
Sometimes it's a line,sometimes it's rewriting a whole
scene.
So, yeah, would it have beeneasier potentially to outline?
Yes, but I am stubborn and Iwill continue my way through it
and and knowing that it makesfor, you know, the clunky first
draft that it is, but I have had, I have found myself having to
(13:03):
go back on many an occasion tofill something in that I only
sort of discovered or realizedor incorporated halfway through.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Are the people that you run it by different than the
people that you run?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
We're going to get to courtroom in a second, but the
contemporary stuff too, yeah, sothere are a few people who I
think can and will and do giveme amazing feedback, no matter
what it is that I will lean on,and this is a small few group of
people that I would share, thatI share with.
But, um, yeah, I did rely onthe only person who's read
beside my agent at this point isa romanticist author, okay, and
(13:44):
who knows and understands thisspace and world building and and
all of that.
So, yeah, that that has shifteda bit, um, and I think,
rightfully so yeah, no, thatmakes sense.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Okay, so I want to come back to courtroom.
What is the release date forthis?
May 20th?
Okay, I knew it was coming soonbecause I got your tour
schedule this morning, or atleast the beginning of it, and
you are back to back to back toback to back, and why is
literally sold out and I do nothave a spot.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Well, there are several Arizona locations this
time, which is fun, which is socool, because when Love Buzz
came out, literally was not open, I know the Jaya house was not
open, so it's really reallybookish shop was not open, right
.
So it's really cool now to beable to have so many more local
spots to hit, which is reallyexciting because they weren't
(14:37):
they literally didn't exist whenmy first book came out just
three years ago.
So that's really cool.
But yeah, there's, there's likea lot of AZ spots, which is
exciting.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
You know, anybody who watched it was called Jury Duty
, right the infamous.
Well, I don't know if it'sinfamous, but it was a great.
Was it on Netflix?
What was that on?
Speaker 2 (14:57):
No, it was on like um freebie or something.
It was not one of the main.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
It wasn't the one, okay.
Yeah, I mean I bet they'reregretting that now, but anyway,
with um Ronald Ronald Gladden,gladden, right, who was the jury
, on the jury, and he thought itwas a real trial.
But it wasn't a real trial andJames Marsden was on, it was a
whole thing and if peoplehaven't watched it is it still
on, but I think you can stillwatch it.
Yeah, I mean, I didn't think Iwas gonna get sucked in and I
(15:20):
got so sucked in fantastic andthey just announced a season two
.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
They did, they did.
So I don't know how they'regonna do it.
I don't know if right part ofit or not, or if they'll just
sort of start a completelydifferent cast.
I don't know how you keep thesame cast, but uh, yeah, I'll be
really, really interested tosee how it goes for a second
season so he blurbed, which isjust fun, I mean was that just
fun, like, oh, it was so fun andit's so funny, because you
(15:46):
always are like, okay, what outof the box things can we do
right, yeah ask authors to blurband I was like you know we were
thinking about who are the realhousewives or you know people
from some of the comps and someof the shows that would be fun
and you might as well make theask.
You know the worst they're goingto say is no or not respond,
and then you're no worse offthan you were.
And he was so gracious and readand blurbed and, you know,
(16:10):
asked for a couple copies forhis girlfriend.
It was just so fun.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So yeah, that was a really fun.
Fun.
That's something that you dothat I admire, is you?
Just?
You just reach out to people,like I remember when World came
out in Not so Perfect World andyou wanted to reach out to
various influencers who youreally believed would enjoy the
book, like you knew that theyread that style of book and you
(16:36):
just reached out and to yourpoint.
Sometimes that lands andsometimes it doesn't, and it
usually has nothing to do withyou, it's just what it is.
But do you enjoy the marketingside of it?
I'm not particularly Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I mean I will say I don't not enjoy it.
It doesn't come naturally to me, right?
Especially like theself-promotion piece, right.
I think I'm of an age wherethat is not something that is
normal or will ever sort of feelnormal to me, yeah.
But, I will say that you knowpublishing.
One of the things you learn asyou go this being my third book
(17:14):
now coming out is whatpublishing can do and will do,
and perhaps what they can't andwon't.
And so you sort of identify theareas where it would behoove you
to fill in the blanks a littlebit, and part of that is, you
know, sliding into someone's DMsif there's a person that
wouldn't necessarily be on,let's say, Harper's list of
(17:35):
influencers because they're notnecessarily book focused right,
or because they are in a nicheof something that is in your
book, that has nothing to dowith sort of the book world but
would make a good overlap.
So, yeah, I tend to find thatevery, with every book, there is
something that is kind ofunique.
Or and that's what's fun tooabout each new book is that
(17:55):
every process feels a little bitdifferent.
There's always something thatit feels unique or fresh or
interesting that you can explore, um, from a, from the marketing
and publicity side, that isunique to that specific book so,
from a writing standpoint, whatdo you feel like changed most
between book one and courtroom?
(18:15):
Oh gosh, I'd like to think thatas an author, I get better with
every book.
Just in terms of my writing, Ido think it has become slightly
easier and I know not everyauthor would say that I'm sure
it's coming at some future pointwhere I sit down to write a
book and I just am like oh, mygosh it's gone.
(18:37):
I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Call me when that happens, because I would just
like to know that it happened,because so far that is not my
experience with you.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
It's been.
You know so, but I think a lotof it has to do with, like, the
tricks and the way that youlearn yourself as an author, and
that comes from writing thebook.
So it's not even about whetheryour writing has improved or
anything like that.
It's also more about learninghow to work with yourself
instead of against yourself, anddoing the things that work for
(19:07):
you.
I you we've talked about thisbefore I'm a pantser.
I do that because it's more funto write that way for me.
If I were to outline a book,that would take some of the joy
and interest out of it andperhaps make me less committed
and motivated to open mycomputer.
Every day.
I jump around as I'm writingbecause I go to whatever I think
(19:28):
is particularly interesting inthat moment, and these are the
things that keep me from gettingwriter's block or, you know,
avoiding opening the draft, andso it's a lot of learning what
works for you and leveragingthose things and making it okay
to do those things for yourself,and I think that awareness and
understanding of your ownprocess comes from writing more
(19:50):
books.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
So how do you?
When you talk about writingwhat you want to write I know
how that works for people whohave an outline right, because
they can just pick something onthe outline that feels fun to
write about today but how do youdo that when you're not, when
you're pantsing it and you don'teven know, like is it just a
scene that you see and you justfigure out later how it all
comes together?
(20:12):
How do you do that?
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Yeah, In part I think it's what you described.
Just because you don't write anoutline down on paper doesn't
mean that you don't sort of havea general that's true.
That's true, and so I don'tnecessarily know all of the
connective tissue of how we getfrom here to here, but I know
both of these things exist, orboth of these points exist, and
so it's really more just theokay.
(20:34):
Well, I know the scene iscoming and I'm excited to write
it.
I'm just going to write it andthen I'll figure out how we get
here.
And does that mean I'll have togo back and edit it a little
bit later because I didn't writeit quite right once I figure
out what that connective tissueis?
Yeah, probably, but it keeps mewriting and it keeps me going
forward.
So it's a little bit of both, Iwould say.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
How long or at what point do you typically and this
obviously can change- but knowwhat the end is going to be.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I usually will know the beginning and the end and
even write them as pretty muchthe first scenes, really, and it
can change and sometimes thatscene will stay but it'll get
moved, or like the ending scenewill stay and get moved up, or,
you know it'll change in somecapacity, the ending scene will
stay and get moved up, or, um,you know it'll change in some
capacity, but I usually havewritten opening scene and ending
scene, ish, really early onokay, so then it's just figuring
(21:29):
out like the connective, the inbetween.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, oh, that's kind of fun.
Maybe I should write the endingscene.
Every time I talk to you.
I'm like maybe this is theproblem.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Well, you and I have talked about this as well.
You know, the people that Ifind in my life who struggle the
most to get a draft completedare people who are editors, who
do some sort of editing work intheir real life, because they
are used to looking forperfection and creating
perfection and it's really hardto get out of your own way.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I think too, like you know, it's interesting and I
think it's counterintuitive,because I've always sort of been
hard on myself, because as aneditor I think I should be able
to more easily figure out okay,we're going to go from this beat
to this beat or whateverterminology you want to use.
But you just said somethinginteresting.
I think it's like a blank slateis just more challenging for me
(22:30):
than if someone gives me abunch of puzzle pieces.
A bunch of puzzle pieces, I canreadily kind of try to figure
out where they go, like what'san edge, what's a middle, what
goes over it with the flowerystuff.
But if, if, if I have nothingand some people are the exact
opposite, where they love thatblank page, it's like I don't
(22:53):
know, do you have a?
Do you get like when you'regoing?
Does that give you more andmore motivation?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, I've had this conversation with other authors
too and it is true, like peopleeither love the editing phase
and hate the drafting phase, orvice versa.
I love drafting phase becausethere you first like there are
no rules, you just get to go andkind of be in an unconscious
stream and write whatever youwant to write and let it be ugly
and messy, and I'm comfortablewith that.
(23:20):
Yeah, and a part of that islike the trust in yourself that
you will get it there at afuture, at a future state.
So, yeah, I love.
I love that editing to me isstill fun, but nothing replaces
sort of the magic of.
But I know a lot of authors whofeel opposite.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Well, and I remember when you said about Love Buzz I
think it was.
No, it wasn't Love Buzz, it wasthe book you wrote before Love
Buzz.
That didn't that sort of youstripped for parts, right, and
it went in different things.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Is that still making its way into new stuff or is it
kind of parked away for now?
I think I fully stripped it inmy first few books, but again, I
still don't think that it was awaste whatsoever.
Oh my God, no Right, I meanwe're just talking about.
I now find myself in a similarposition, even now, with a book
that is completed and I don'thave a plan for it.
I don't know exactly when andwhere and how it's going to get
published, or if it will.
So that doesn't stop.
(24:15):
You know necessarily if andwhen you get published or have
an agent or have a deal.
So it still is never, I don'tthink, a straight line.
Yeah yeah, so I'm in a similarsituation now.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, we've talked about this several times.
Like you know, people make theassumption that once you have an
agent or once you have a deal,you're kind of in the machine in
perpetuity, and you're really.
I don't believe this statement.
But the statement is you'reonly as good as your last book,
right?
Because there you never know ifyou're going to get a deal for
the next, the next one.
(24:52):
So what is your?
What is some of the greatest?
I guess not advice, becausethat sounds really trite, but
that you've incorporated intoyour mindset in this space to
keep yourself from feeling likeyour.
I don't want to say your worthis dependent, but I've just
heard people say you know, thisbook did so well of theirs and I
(25:16):
really thought this book waseven better, but the house
passed on it or my agent isn'tthrilled with it, and so now
they start really secondguessing and wondering if they
had like a one hit wonder typeof a situation.
And how do they move on fromthere without feeling like
they're starting all over again?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Yeah, it's so true that it's not a done deal just
because you get your agent oryour first book deal.
But I think, going back to yourprevious question around, like
what motivates you, this is abig part of it, right, which is
it's easy to put all your eggsin one basket of one book and
then be disappointed when itdoesn't deliver or how you
(25:56):
wanted it to or do the thingsthat you wanted or how you
wanted it to or do the thingsthat you wanted or expected it
for it to do.
The best remedy for that for meis having my head down working
on the next thing, and so in alot of ways, it is a coping
mechanism on the next bookbecause it's keeping me from
spiraling about the one that.
So, for example, you know thecourtroom drama is coming out in
(26:17):
in less than a month.
We're shoring up details for atour.
You know I could be looking atnumbers constantly, I could be
doing all of these things, butinstead I'm really focused on
getting this next book completed.
So it does take some of thepressure off of of having to
think about sort of all of thesethings of oh gosh, if this book
(26:39):
doesn't do well, or you knowwhat it's going to mean for my
career and right, it's, it'sthat, it's that, that just keep
going type of mentality, I think.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Well, and more often than not, that's what I'm
hearing.
It's not a hundred percent, butit's like well, so what are you
working on now?
The next project you know whilethis one is are you?
I can't remember if we've evertalked about this.
Are you an everyday writer?
I try to be Okay.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I can't say that I am consistently, but I try to be?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Can you do it in short bursts or do you need?
Especially with this worldbuilding thing, do you need time
to kind?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
of get into it, and then the ideal would be to have
large chunks of time, but that'sjust not always feasible.
I will write sitting in thepickup line at school, I will
open it up and write a sentencewhile we're watching a
basketball game, like I, youknow.
You have to just sort of makethe time, and I think that's
another piece that I see a lotof people struggle with, which
(27:34):
is I need to get my coffee setup and I need to have the mood
lighting and I need to have andI get it right.
That's ideal situation, butlife doesn't allow that most
more often than not.
So I do what I can where I can,and I it's truthfully, most of
my books are written in stolenmoments.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Like in your notes app.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Oh, for sure.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, do you incorporate stuff that happens
around you?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Yeah, totally.
I think every author does,right.
I mean, we're really justobservers of the world and
everything that you're puttinginto your book is something that
you consciously orsubconsciously have experienced
in some capacity.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
So yeah, absolutely, I eavesdrop on people's
conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Oh, 1000% yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, I'm like I don't know if I can make up
dialogue that good, so I'm hereand see everything.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, I am listening to the table next to me is
conversation, while alsoengaging with you, right, while
also seeing what the hostess isdoing.
Yeah, I'm, I'm very much thatperson.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
This is like what we were trained for as moms.
Yeah, I feel we can hear onething.
We have two ears that, ofcourse, listen independently,
and then our eyes, oh yeah, it'sa whole thing.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
It's like that funny.
You know how the there's likethat thing where a guy sits
facing the door so that if thereis like a something that were
to happen, I prefer taking thatseat.
I'm like I will notice it wayearlier than you ever would.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, yeah, as people are coming in, you're like I
will notice it way earlier thanyou ever would.
Yeah, yeah, as people arecoming in, you're like, well,
I'm going to need them to sitover it.
This looks like it's going tobe a good conversation.
I just I love listening topeople talk too.
You know, it's just fascinating.
It kind of is Okay.
So what are you most excitedabout with courtroom?
That either you weren't excitedabout or, like maybe something
(29:28):
you were nervous about about theother two, or just in general
what am I excited about?
Speaker 2 (29:34):
well, I think, um, with this book I it's really
things that I enjoy and not tosay that there weren't those
things in my first two books.
But, like I love reality tv andso wanting to put little Easter
eggs in it for people who areBravo fans and who watch Real
Housewives or Vanderpump orwhatever it is there's, there
(29:54):
are Easter eggs all over thisbook, and so that was really fun
, because it was sort of like asecret code for people who love
those shows, like I do, whichwas really fun.
And so what's your favorite?
Speaker 1 (30:04):
one.
Do you have a favorite?
Real Housewives?
I do, which was really fun.
And so what's your favorite?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
one.
Do you have a favorite?
Housewives, yeah, or anyreality show, oh gosh, I.
I was a big Vanderpump rulesfan, um, so I'm sad that's over.
But I, what?
Are you watching the Valley?
I am watching the Valley, eventhough I can't stand Jax Taylor
and I feel like that's just.
I hate supporting him, evenwith a view, but I watch it.
And then Real Housewives.
(30:28):
I love Beverly Hills.
I think Dorit had her momentthis season.
Who?
Speaker 1 (30:32):
did.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Dorit.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Oh, I think I didn't see this season.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Okay, yeah, she came into her own this season.
Okay, I love Bose on thatseason as well.
She's been such a greataddition.
So so, yeah, there's a few thatI watch religiously, some that
I will pop in and out of, butthose are a few of the ones that
I watch pretty closely.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
And how much did that influence?
I mean, obviously it influenced, like the courtroom thing I
mean is predicated.
You want to give a high levelsummary here?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yeah, so the main, the woman on trial.
So Cindy and Damon are the twomain characters.
They are jurors on what becomesa sequestered jury for a
high-profile murder trial.
And the woman on trial is areality TV star who is accused
of murdering her husband, andshe is on a show called
(31:23):
Authentic Moms of Malibu, whichis essentially built from the
Real Housewives franchise.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, well, in the beginning of it, because I've
read the, I don't know if it'schapter one or the, I'm not sure
, but when they're in the, allthe jurors are in the courtroom
and they're like you can see it,I can still see it, and it's
been months and months andmonths since I've read it it's.
I can't wait to read the fullthing, because it was so um, it
(31:52):
was just captivating.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, it was really fun towrite the courtroom components
of it and, um, you know, findingthat balance between the
courtroom scenes and the loverelationship is challenging
because you're trying tobasically write two books in one
and combine them together andhave them feel like one story
instead of separate stories.
So that was a challenge.
But yeah, it was really fun tosort of write the book that was
(32:17):
like an homage to it's dedicatedto the Bravo holics.
Like it was very much like youknow when they say, like write
the book that you want to read,this was this.
Was that for me?
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Are you the type of writer as though we can put you
all in, put us all into boxes,but where each book you want to
challenge yourself to dosomething different?
Is that intentional that you dothat?
It's not necessarilyintentional, but it always
happens, it always happens.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
There's one point in a book where I think, oh shit,
why did I do this?
And then I have, you know, I'mdoing research on something that
I know nothing about in world.
It was video game design, whichI have.
No, you know, I don't playvideo games.
I had no knowledge of that.
But then, you know, had to divedeep into that world.
And this one, it was thecourtroom component.
(33:04):
I've never served on a jury.
I I used to very much want towhen I was younger.
Um, I, you know, and it'syou're spending hours of time
researching very basic things.
They're gonna be one line inthe book, right?
So yeah, there's always acomponent.
And then you know in this bookthat we that I had you read that
has not seen the light of dayyet.
(33:24):
It was, it's set largely inPortugal and so it was a bunch
of research on Portugal.
So you know, there's alwaysthat something that you sort of
decide and then realize well,now I have to deliver on this.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
I feel like that called for a trip to Portugal.
I'm going For real.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, well, my husband and I have been, which
was where some of the locationswere based on.
And then we are taking the kidsin June, which is part of why
my book tour is so back to back,because, ok, I was like I will
give you guys these two weeks,can we please do as much as we
can?
And then we are leavingdirectly after.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, oh my God that is I'm.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I really want to go to Portugal.
Yeah, this is my kids' firstout of the country trip, which
is really, you know, fun andspecial, and I will be doing a
ton of book research as I'mthere.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Okay, well, I can't wait to see photos of that.
Yeah, and have you tell me Ishould maybe move there.
So what are you reading now?
Speaker 2 (34:21):
Oh gosh.
Well, I've been trying to readin this space a little bit.
And then so Nisha J Tooley, whois a romance author, who's a
friend of mine we were talkingabout who do you have read now
for you in a different.
She's one of the people thatI've been relying on to read and
she made a great recommendationto me, which was so this book
(34:41):
is a little sexier than you knowmy contemporaries, and we were
talking about the scenes, andshe was like well, one thing
that I like to do, which Ithought was great advice, was
she's like I always listen tosomething that slightly like
goes there a little bit morethan what I'm writing as
inspiration, and I thought thatwas really great advice.
So I'm listening to SierraSimone's Salt Kiss right now
(35:04):
Okay, very horny book, it'sfantastic, um, and it's great
like sex scene 101.
Um, right, a really steamy,really fantastic sex scene.
So that's um, I'm listening tothat right now, sort of in
preparation for for some of thescenes in this one.
And then I just listened to.
(35:25):
I'm doing a lot of audiobooks.
Right now I have Oathbound,which I have not started.
I have the physical copy ofthat, which is that by Tracy
Dion.
It was a best-selling um series.
I am so excited to start it.
I've heard nothing but goodthings.
I have the book but I haven'tbeen able to start it yet.
Um, so yeah, I'm kind ofreading more in the sort of
fantasy yeah, opium, sci-fi,space.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I would like to start .
I never thought I would begin,or well, I've started reading.
I've only read one book in thatspace, which is Akatar, so it's
like very, it's like one right,but lately I just feel like I
want to try some more.
Yeah, and it's funny.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
I didn't intentionally set out to to make
this shift, but you know, stateof the world, all of that.
You sit down and write a rom-comand I just didn't have it in me
.
I mean, I read, that's what I'msaying.
Yeah, I'm gold, and I think alot of people right now, like I
will tell you, writing this bookhas been a great place to
channel my rage and, just know,throw it into this book.
(36:26):
So it's been very cathartic, um, and I just don't think I would
have gotten that same releasein a contemporary romance right
now.
It doesn't mean that I won'tcircle back to that and I think
the great thing about publishingtoday, you know, in a previous
era you were sort of onlyallowed to write, you know, in
one space and if you were acontemporary romance author you
had to stay a contemporaryromance author.
(36:47):
And now we're seeing authorsmore and more explore new spaces
and write in different genresand it's more acceptable and
it's more widely seen and that'sreally exciting too, because
there are less limits in termsof what you can write now.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Right, well, and I think sometimes I'm actually.
I have one more question,actually, because I'm curious.
Sometimes, when authors switchgenres, they adopt a pen name so
that they can.
Maybe there are myriad reasonsthey do that, but you're clear,
are you not doing that, or haveyou not thought about it, or are
you?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I mean, I haven't gotten that far yet my first
inclination is no, yeah, justbecause I think it's all still
you, me, and like, if you lookat like a Geneva Rose, for
example she's an example ofsomeone who writes across
multiple spaces and you know shehas a great author brand that
is all still just her.
Yeah, I don't, I don't know, Ihaven't thought about it much,
(37:41):
but I would, I would like tokind of be like this is, you
know, give more access to peoplewho want to do the same thing,
you know?
Speaker 1 (37:50):
I.
I agree.
I can't maintain a memory ofwhat my name is like regularly,
so if I have to switch, itsounds like a lot of work, it
feels like all the Instagramhandles and all the different
things.
It just feels like a lot, Ithink.
I think it's there's no rightor wrong and and people who make
whatever choice, they makewhatever choice is best for them
(38:11):
, and I think that's the mostimportant thing.
It's just interesting to hearwhat people's thoughts are and I
love.
I love it when people will go acertain way, like you said, to
try to create more access forother people to make that same
choice.
They're not necessarilycomfortable being the leader in
doing that, but they're willingto ride on the.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
But it is a lot of what you just said, which is
that sounds like a lot of work.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
It really does.
I mean, yeah, it's enough work,as you well know, by this point
to just maintain one authorplatform.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Well, I think it used to be again kind of of a
different era at this pointwhere you know it would have
been taboo to write romance orwrite whatever it is that you
write, and you know you'd wantto keep that very separate from,
like, your corporate job oryour corporate world.
My clients I work in HR, of allthings right my clients read my
books and you know I just don'tthink that that separation
(39:09):
really has to exist much anymore.
I know there are certain nicheareas where it does, and for
good reason, but yeah, I thinkmore and more it's acceptable
and for people to just have bemultifaceted in that way.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Yeah, I've definitely heard of people.
You know instances whereauthors are.
You know they work for a highcaliber company of some sort and
they need to separate those twothings.
But well, I cannot wait to haveall the dates written down back
to back to back.
I will go all the way toGilbert price?
Speaker 2 (39:42):
Well, there's one in Scottsdale which shouldn't,
which isn't as far for you,right Poisoned Pen, oh it's as
far but.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I'll go there too.
Yeah, maybe I'll just get aroom over there.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
You might as well come to Tucson too.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Exactly.
I'll just move to the east sidefor four days.
It'll be great.
But thank you, and of courseyou have to come back.
You know this is normally theNeely show.
I mean, your name is brought upso much it's it's borderline.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
I don't even know if it's embarrassing, but no, I'm
so grateful to you and it'sreally fun.
I think one of the best thingsabout this whole process and
journey and author journey is,like, all the people that you
meet and like have been with mesince my debut say it like it's
been so long ago.
It's not that long ago, but youknow how long ago was it,
though?
Um, so love buzz came out in2023, so it's actually only been
(40:36):
two years.
That's what I thought, okay,which it feels like a lifetime
ago because you keep churningout the books.
Yeah, it feels like a lifetimeago, but it's really fun and
cool to see, like you know,people who have, like, early
readers and people that youfound early in this process be
with you on it and be genuinely,you know, excited for the
(40:57):
developments, and, yeah, it'sone of the parts of this truly.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I agree, like just connecting with other people and
also these great bookstoresthat are opening.
Yeah, I can Like justconnecting with other people and
and also these great bookstoresthat are opening.
Yeah, I can't wait to get overthere for those.
We need some of those over here.
What's going on with the WestValley Move?
Speaker 2 (41:14):
or open a bookstore.
Oh, or open a bookstore.
I love that Could happen Wellthank you.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
I will put all of your links, as per usual, in the
show notes.
Thank you so much for tuning in.
If you enjoyed this episode,this is your friendly reminder
to follow or subscribe, leave aquick review and share it with
someone you know has a greatstory or message but isn't sure
what to do next.
Also, remember to check outpublishaprofitablebookcom for
(41:42):
book writing resources and tipsand to see all the ways we can
work together to get your bookout into the world.
Again, thanks so much forlistening and I'll talk with you
again soon.
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