June 18, 2025 • 37 mins
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What started as sharing her story online about living with chronic illness turned into a book deal with Penguin Random House. In this episode, Gigi Robinson shares how she leveraged consistency, relationships, and a clear vision to go from content creator to published author.
Here’s what we get into:
- Why she chose to write A Kid’s Book About Chronic Illness (and how it ended up getting picked up by Penguin/DK).
- The ridiculously simple promo strategy Gigi swears by: bring the book everywhere and make it part of the conversation.
- Why she went the children’s book route to make a heavy topic more digestible.
- Her take on promotion as storytelling, not selling.
- How she filters advice from all the "experts” while staying aligned with her bigger vision.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
I am so intrigued by what you've done here, but I
don't fully understand it, so Iwant to ask some questions.
A kid's book about chronicillness was not originally with
Penguin right?
Can you tell that story of howthis all kind of came to be?
Go Yep.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So it definitely happened in a really beautiful
what I like to call happenstance, and I originally had been
posting online and talking aboutliving with chronic illness
online for years.
At this point In 2022, I postedon LinkedIn about creating
(00:43):
representation for women dealingwith chronic illness and I
wanted to be in the SportsIllustrated swimsuit search.
So I submitted on LinkedIn,which had never been done before
, apparently, and that was whatgot me into the magazine.
So at that point, I had beenreally involved in advocacy and
speaking about my story andwhatnot.
(01:04):
And then, by the end of 2022, Ihad seen a friend of mine write
a book with a kid's co aboutself-love.
His name is Brandon Farbstein.
He's a really amazing disabilityrights advocate, and so I
reached out to the kids co teamand was like yo, what's the deal
?
Would love to write a bookabout chronic illness.
I know you've written some ondisability and different kinds
(01:26):
of conditions, but I don'treally want to get super
specific with what I'm dealingwith.
Would love to maybe worktogether.
And they're like yeah, we lovethis idea, let's do it.
So in 2023, or we wrote it inJanuary 2023, it was designed
and packaged and then ready tolaunch by March of 2023.
We put together this beautifulbook launch that I hosted twice,
(01:50):
two book launches for thepromotion and it was so fun.
I did a private like seateddinner and I had everything down
to the menu color coordinatedin the flowers.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
And I saw that flower bouquet, down to the menu,
color coordinated and theflowers, and I saw that flower
bouquet.
Did you can I ask, did you fundthat, or was that done by a
kids co?
the funding for the booklaunches was me, yeah and I
always ask, because I like to betransparent, like I think that
so many people do think oh, ifI'm with a big, even if I'm with
a traditional house, which Ithink a kid's co would be
(02:26):
considered that right, you'restill doing a lot of your own
marketing, okay, so you, you, dothis launch.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
And, yeah, I mean it was super successful.
Right after I launched the book, I was going on the today show
to talk about living withchronic illness and dealing with
endometriosis, and they evenhighlighted my book in that,
which was so cool.
And then just some more organicpress as I was doing speaking
engagements, I'd bring the bookwith me and I would take
(02:57):
pictures there, kind of likewhat I'm doing now.
That's, that was all 2023.
And even 2024.
And it always was in thebackground of my photos and desk
setup and whatnot.
And then at the beginning ofthis year I got an email from
the publishing team saying hey,we're updating your contract.
We're now with DK Books, and Ihad heard of the acquisition,
(03:19):
but I didn't really understandhow it would impact me.
And so I looked over and I'mlike wait a second, what does
this mean?
Then a couple of months went byafter I signed the contract and
I get another email saying hey,gigi, your book is relaunching
with Penguin in a month.
And I'm like whoa, what do youmean?
And they're like yeah, like,your book is officially now
(03:43):
ready to rock and roll.
It has brand new packaging.
It has the DK logo on it, hasthe Penguin logo on it as well
as the Akitsuko logo, so it'salmost like three separate
things all in one, because theDK is an imprint of Penguin and,
by proxy, now Akitsuko is, andso that is how it happened.
(04:04):
Now a kids co is, and so thatis how it happened and I've just
been re doing a relaunch andenjoying everything that's
coming with it and being reallysilly.
Just yesterday I was working anevent with Adobe and I can, you
know, send you these links, butI decided to take my mini
sticker book around the citywith me and it was just so funny
(04:27):
.
So I have all these videos thatI'm going to compile into like
a blog of my mini book.
But it's just been such a blast.
And now at speaking engagementsagain I'm like oh well, you can
buy 50 books for you know, thefirst 50 people that come, and
it's just been really awesome torelaunch and I'm super proud
that it's even gotten here.
And another thing about thewhole how did it happen which
(04:51):
again is why I led with it was ahappenstance, is because back
in November and anybodylistening that's familiar with
motivational speakers, self help, all of that I am a big fan of,
like Tony Robbins and MelRobbins and Jay Shetty and Gabby
Bernstein all these like bigmotivational figures.
So back in November I went to aTony Robbins UPW and I went
(05:14):
with some friends and by the endof it we're like so what are
our goals for next year?
Like this time next year, whatwill happen?
And I'm like off the bat.
First things first.
I will have a book with a majorpublishing house.
Like that was like.
I was like I don't really carewhat it's gonna look like, but I
know that it will happen.
And then I, you know, had tocome up with some other things.
(05:34):
And then two months later, yeah, they're like, by the way.
And and now it's like real, andI'm like whoa crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
What's really fun about your looking on Instagram
and how you're promoting it ishow simple book promotion can be
.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
So, right.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Lots of times people are so and I get it right.
It can be so overwhelming tofeel like I have to post this
many times or I have to show myface, or there are different
things that people don't want todo or aren't yet comfortable
doing, and I think you have somereally unique and fun ways.
I mean, it's just, it's theopportunities sort of just
(06:14):
present themselves, like yousaid with your sticker, and just
showing that in all differentplaces.
Yeah, like you know and have.
It's that simple and I'll dosome of these as video clips so
that people can see that, but ofcourse, I'll put your Instagram
handle in the episode so theycan go look at it.
But it can be that simple andit's just the repetitive.
(06:34):
What caused you to want to doit as a children's book as
opposed to, say, a memoir or anonfiction of another sort?
What?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
was.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I love this question and just to piggyback on what
you said before about themarketing of it, it's genuinely
whatever feels natural to you.
So I know for other booklaunches and usually most likely
with bigger books that aregetting launched, like a memoir
or a full adult nonfiction book,they're going to do a mailer
with a box with some customizedstuff.
(07:07):
A friend of mine actually justlaunched her book.
Her name's Terry Kirpin and shejust did the whisper group or
the whisper method.
I got to find it.
She sent me a portable chargerand it has been so awesome.
Yeah, here it is.
She sent me a portable chargerand it has her company's logo on
it, but her book was called theWhisper Method, I think, and so
(07:29):
I've been using this since shesent it to me and I'm like that
is a really smart one.
Another creator that I'm kind offriends with sent out one for
her book and they included likea notebook that was on theme
with the books.
You know, it doesn't have to besomething crazy, it doesn't
have to be overly branded, aslong as it fits the theme.
I think that's really cool andfor me right now I'm just like
(07:51):
who can I get the book in frontof and also, what are my
relationships with press Talkabout it.
So, for example, I alsorecently got a breast reduction,
like six months ago.
I also recently got a breastreduction, like six months ago,
and I know that certainpublications would kind of like
to talk about that, becausebreast reductions aren't really
(08:11):
talked about that much.
It's usually breastaugmentations or plastic surgery
.
For me, I was like, let me pitchthe angle.
And it's all in the angle.
Let me pitch this.
As you know, yes, I got thesurgery and I have a book coming
out, and I got the surgerybecause of my chronic pain and
fatigue and had I not done thatit, you know, I could have still
(08:34):
been dealing with all of thisand go check out my book.
So it's really strategic in theway that I've been talking
about it online and somearticles are going to be coming
out soon related to that.
So I think it's going to bereally fun to kind of see happen
.
But definitely just think aboutthe pitch, think about the
angle.
I could talk about Gen Z atwork, gen Z being
(08:57):
entrepreneurial, future of work,living with chronic illness.
I mean, the possibilities arehonestly pretty endless when it
comes to promoting this book andhow I can talk to other parts
of my career and say by the way,there's a book.
So to anybody listening that ishaving trouble, you don't need
to go crazy photos anywhere yougo.
I bring it with me in my purse,my backpack, every single place
(09:19):
I go.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I do too, not in my purse, cause I just have this
like little leather walletbecause it's the bigger my purse
in my backpack every singleplace I go.
I do not in my purse because Ijust have this like little
leather wallet because it's thebigger my purse, the more stuff
I'll take with me.
So I try to keep it, you know.
But I I try to always have themin my car because anytime I see
a free little library or I'veleft them in waiting rooms, I've
left them in airports manytimes, like at the gate, I'll
(09:39):
just leave them with a littlenote that says you know, if you
found this, it's just.
But you said something that Ithink is extremely important,
which is a lot of people feelreally uncomfortable.
I don't think you do, but a lotof people do.
Talking about the book andtalking about themselves like
that Just feel they're not.
You've been doing it for awhile in other capacities.
Either you've always beencomfortable, which some people
(10:06):
just are, or you've gottencomfortable.
When people aren't yet there,they're like I don't, I feel it
and I say you know, here's thething.
You're not probably going toget anywhere.
Talking about your book, youtalk about something peripheral
to the book.
And then it's like oh, by theway, or whoever's interviewing
you will kind of do that part ofthe promotion for you, or
whoever's interviewing you willkind of do that part of the
promotion for you.
So you don't even have to do itand it can feel a lot more
comfortable talking about thatother thing than saying hi, I,
(10:30):
you know, I'm Gigi, and I wrotea book go buy it.
That, yeah, that's not evensomething that works terribly
well.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
A video that I have coming out soon is basically
like I started my career with myphone and a story about a girl
living with chronic illness, andessentially that is the truth
of my career trajectory.
That is how it started and itdoesn't have to be crazy, crazy
and I went on to talk more about.
If you know something's goingon with, like the public
speaking circuit and nobodywants to pay, well, I have a
book to rely on.
(11:09):
If something's going on withbook sales, well, I have my
brand deal to rely on, and so,like everything lives within its
own ecosystem and anybodythat's scared to promote their
book.
I mean, you wrote a book likehow do you want to sell books,
or did you just want to write abook?
To write a book Becauseotherwise, maybe then just
become a professor.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
You know teaching about certain things are not
making enough money to live onon their own off book sales.
That's just a fact.
And so you've got these branddeals.
I was loving watching some ofyour different perspectives
(11:51):
because you know your generation, like you and I are of a bit of
a different, differentgenerations, right?
So, like you, my oldestdaughter is almost 26 and she's
there, right so you guys areright there, and it's so fun to
listen to her talk about thecontent creation world and it's
something that when I was 27, 26, 27, I wasn't a thing, right,
(12:16):
like we barely had cell phonesat that point.
It's crazy.
So can you, are you comfortabletalking a little bit about when
people are wanting to go outand do sort of these brand deals
in conjunction with a book ornot in conjunction?
How do you go about that in away that I think a lot of people
(12:37):
feel like, well, I can't dothat, I don't have a very big
platform.
I mean, is there a requirementfor that?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Well, since I'm not on brand marketing teams, I
can't exactly speak to whattheir strategy is, but at least
my strategy.
As an example, I went to aconference this past weekend
called Teachable and CreatorEconomy, New York City Connect,
and the whole point of theconference is to talk about
building and scaling a businessas a freelancer, which is what
(13:05):
content creators are, andinfluencers are freelancers and
talk about building asustainable business.
And so in my video there is aportion of the video where I say
my favorite part of the day wasthinking about how I do this
myself with things like publicspeaking, writing a book or even
making your dog into aninfluencer.
(13:26):
And so this is actually goingto be a sponsored post promoting
Teachable and the conferencethat I went to.
But, as you can see from whatI'm telling you, I did hold up
my book in that and Istrategically brought my book
with me.
I also brought my dog with meso that I could use him in the
video, because he does havefollowers and he also is making
(13:50):
money as a content creator.
But I like to think about youknow, what are the things that
you need that can fuel yourbusiness or that are related
peripherally to your book, right.
So, for example, Carrie's bookand I'm assuming this is the
strategy behind it.
I haven't spoken to her aboutit, but this is what I take away
(14:13):
from it as a younger marketerHer book is all about helping
women exit their companies thatthey founded.
And so what does a womanfounder always need?
A portable charger becauseshe's always going around the
meetings and whatnot.
So I don't know if she had abrand deal with this brand or if
she just had them made, but ifshe were to have had a brand
(14:36):
deal about it, it would havemade sense Because she could
have talked about how she'salways on the go and doesn't
want to think about getting acharger.
She just sticks it to her phoneand goes and handles what she
needs to do best in business.
So really, anything you're using, even the podcast equipment
that you're using to promote thebook, the headphones you're
using to record the microphonesyou're using, the purse you use
(15:00):
while you're on the go I meanthe possibilities are honestly
super endless.
It's all in how you tie it inand tell your story with it.
And I would say I think peoplemake money these days with
around a thousand followers.
You don't really need that much.
I can't guarantee you would geta lot of money for that, but
you could still get something.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Right and and not to oversimplify it, because I think
one of the challenges is thatsometimes people who especially
who are selling a course on howto do it are like it's so simple
, if I did it, you can do it,and then it's like no, it's not
really that simple.
So I certainly don't want tooversimplify the process.
At the most basic level.
(15:42):
Is it, as see the air quotessimple as simply reaching out to
those brands that you'd like topartner with and saying this is
who I am Like.
Can you speak to that?
Are you comfortable speaking tothat?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Of course.
Yeah, I think there's a lotthat goes into it.
Yes, it's that simple, thatgoes into it.
Yes, it's that simple.
And there's a lot of othernuanced curriculum I would say
that goes into teaching peoplehow to do this right.
It's about relationshipbuilding.
It's about talking with yourpublisher.
What people do they haverelationships with right, like,
(16:15):
for example, certain times whenyou're doing a book launch or
book talk, they'll partner upwith a team at a big social
platform like Meta, for example.
So Meta has a program withtheir threads team, which is you
know, everyone knows whatthreads is and it's called the
threads book club and they hostmonthly or weekly book club
(16:37):
events where they invitecreators to come in and one
author and then they have amoderated panel.
It's a whole book launch eventor book around a book launch
usually, and it's just a momentfor community and connection and
to get a hands on question fromthe author to the audience.
And that is not necessarily thedoing of the author.
(17:00):
That's usually the publishinghouse and these big platforms.
So it can be as simple as thatand then showing up and after
you've written it, or you couldgo the route of hiring a
publicist or an agency to kindof coordinate and handle, which
would probably require someupfront fees, but it could
result in a longer termpartnership.
(17:21):
And then, last but not least,when you do reach out, that is
the first 25% of it, right, thenext 50% is nurturing a
relationship and talking withsomebody, getting on a call
pitching your idea, and then thenext 5% after that would be
really closing the deal.
And then the last remainder 20percent, or however much, I
(17:44):
don't even know where I'm atwith my numbers I lost count.
I lost count but I think youguys get what I'm saying.
The remaining portion, whichshould be about 20 percent, will
be in execution and alsoposting and getting that content
up and then the wrap up ofcourse.
That content up and then thewrap up, of course.
(18:05):
Campaign strategy is not simpleand it can be simple to an
extent, but even working with apublisher to get a unique idea
created is a challenge becauseof so much going on internally
and they don't always havebudget and your schedule doesn't
align and their schedule, Imean, you know it's.
It's very elaborate to planthese things and the lack, the
(18:27):
only I would say thing close toa brand partnership that I did
is I partnered with Shopifybecause a kid's co is run on
Shopify and so the space in NewYork city graciously let me have
it for an afternoon and I had,I think, about 50 or 60 people
come to a private book talk andit was really lovely.
(18:48):
But they donated the space andI donated my time and my
platform to add Shopify andinclude them and all of that.
But now that it's with Penguin,I don't think they're on
Shopify anymore.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Well, and this is okay, this is a hypothetical
question, but I think you're agreat person to ask because of
how you move in the space If youwere an indie author, so if you
were self-published or you hadused a hybrid publisher or some
such thing, and maybe you evenfelt this way I don't know, I
don't want to make an assumption, but with a kids' co because
(19:25):
they're not seen as one of thebig guys, right what would your
approach?
Would you still have had thesame approach of trying to
create these partnerships andrelationships, and maybe with
different people, but do youthink that still would have been
your?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, I think so.
I think the reason I would saythe approach would be the same
is because I know when and Iknow you asked me this question
earlier that I did not answeryet but why it's why kids book
over an adult book.
It just happened that way.
Answer yet, but why it's whykids book over an adult book.
It just happened that way.
(20:04):
But when I write the longerbook, it would be the same, I
would.
I will have the book with me atall times.
I will be talking about it.
You know, it's not somethingthat I think should really be
brushed off.
Oh yeah, I wrote a book like.
Whenever somebody writes a bookit's like oh my God, tell me
about me, about it.
Like you never really hearauthors.
Kind of just be like oh yeah,I've written a book like so
(20:25):
casually, and I think I thinkthere's I don't know what the
percentage is, but not everybodywho wants to write a book does
and not everybody who buys abook program to self-publish
finishes.
Believe me, I know.
Yeah, I mean same.
(20:46):
I bought two differentself-publishing things and I
just couldn't get through itbecause for me it just wasn't
aligned.
Is what it comes down to In whatway?
I'm curious to be on a deadlinethat I do not set and it's
(21:11):
almost like I need to be inschool doing it and in a way,
when you're either getting inadvance or when you have big
shoes to fill, it almost is likemotivation to get it done and
make it extraordinary and reallymake it a labor of love.
But the reason a children'sbook was definitely just again,
things happened to the pointwhere I decided, okay, I feel
(21:32):
like it's good.
I spoke with them, I knew Iwanted to make something happen
quickly and they had thecapacity at the time to take me
on as a project.
So we decided to do it and I'vejust kind of run with it and
the fact that now it's out withPenguin is really, really
special and, I think, also justa manifestation of them
believing in their work and mealso saying you know what?
(21:53):
I have?
This book, I love this book.
I'm really proud of this bookand it doesn't matter if I sell
10 copies or 1000 copies or10,000 copies, like I want
people to hear the story aboutliving with a chronic illness.
And, interestingly enough, thischildren's book and all of
(22:14):
their books do not have anyillustrations.
It's all graphic and typographybased, which I think is pretty
unique for children's books, andit makes them stand out because
they want the book to be aconversation starter, which is
also a great selling point,because it's not just for kids
Now, it's for anybody who wantsto really understand on a
(22:35):
personal level what living with.
I do talk about the specificconditions that I've dealt with,
but it can be applied to anycondition.
Just kind of apply it toyourself.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I mean, think about how many people give, um, oh,
the places you'll go as agraduation gift or like.
I have several copies thatseveral different people have
given me of the children's book.
What would you do with an idea?
So I think there's somethingabout children's books, the
simplicity of them, that lots oftimes, if a topic and certainly
chronic illness is a topic thatcan feel heavy, and when people
(23:11):
are recently diagnosed or some,and they're just trying to kind
of ease their way in withsomething that's a little more
light, that's an obvious placeto to, to go Right, and it makes
a great gift, it makes a greatstarting point.
You mentioned, though, doingthe other version.
So are you, are you doing orconsidering doing, a different?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yes, I am about to start pitching out to agents
with my proposal and coupleearly early additions of some
chapters that I've written, andI think it's a great next step
for me and where I'm at rightnow I just am focused on this
book launch and as soon as weget through the summer and while
(23:57):
we are getting through thesummer, I will have my team kind
of start pitching out so thathopefully by the end of the year
something is signed, sealed,delivered, and if it is not by
the end of the year, it will bewithin a year and we can record
another one.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I, you know how do you tune out and maybe you don't
.
So how do you manage all of thenoise in the space?
Because I think I get reallyoverwhelmed, even with all the
you should do this and you haveto do this, and I don't so much
I take that back a little bitbecause I don't as much today,
but in the, I'd say, eight tocertainly 15 years ago I really
(24:38):
battled that.
And you're in this space whereI think for your age group,
you're almost more used to thenoise than I am, so maybe that
makes it easier.
But I'm curious.
I love your conviction of justbeing like.
This is the next best step forme.
How do you get to that placewhen I have to imagine that
(25:03):
there are people around you?
Or am I wrong that there arepeople around you saying no,
here's what you should do.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I'm a very big believer in what's meant for me
will find me, and also, closedmouths don't get fed.
So I take every meeting that Ibelieve will be valuable.
And an example of this is afriend of mine worked at a new
kind of AI tech startup and wemet at a conference and we
didn't get to chat at theconference.
(25:29):
So we had a meeting and I'mlike what led you to this career
?
And then she goes on to tell mehow she was a former book agent
at WMB and I'm like wait, can Iask you about book stuff?
So now our relationship ispredominantly me helping her
find a role in social media,because she since left the
company, and her helping me withall the book stuff.
(25:50):
And she's like you literallyhave the best case scenario
where this book is relaunchingwith a major, you know
publishing house and you can usethat as leverage for pitching
out a manuscript and regardlessof how many you sell, she was
like I don't think it willmatter, because a children's
book is so different thanselling an adult nonfiction book
(26:12):
, and so I trust that becauseshe worked there.
I have other people in my orbitthat are saying you know, well,
I'm happy to look over yourmanuscript.
It should be, or your bookproposal, it should be like this
.
Then I have another personwho's like a four time self
published author or no, fourtime book deal book publishing
(26:36):
house author, first time selfpublished this summer or this
fall and she's like, oh, youshould change this, this and
that.
Then I'm meeting with speakingcoaches and they're like you're
super great, you just need a fewtweaks and all you have to do
is this, this and that.
When you're talking about yourbook and your elevator pitch and
then somebody else is saying,oh, you could get multi six
figures for a book deal,somebody else is saying you
(26:58):
won't get more than 20 grand.
So what do I believe in?
Who?
I'll believe it when I see iton a contract.
Really, it's that simple.
It's it's working towards whatI'm interested in, and I believe
that if I want to get to thepoint where I get a multi six
figure contract or a six figurecontract if I believe it's
possible, which I do there'sthings that I have to do in
(27:20):
order to do that.
That include more socialcontent, promoting this book,
more speaking engagements, moresales of this book or doing
corporate speaking.
There's all of these steps thatgo into it, that make me as a
whole package more valuable tothe publishing house.
That's going to give me anadvance.
(27:40):
I think of it strategically.
It's not at all like, oh, I'mjust going to see what happens.
With the brand deal thing, I'mat the point where I charge a
certain rate and so to write awhole book that I'm giving the
rights away forever to, inperpetuity, for the most part,
with royalties and whatnot, Ibelieve that I should be getting
(28:02):
paid a certain amount and Idon't really feel like settling
for anything less than what Ibelieve I should or shouldn't
get.
So it's strategic and in termsof noise, I mean, it's it's what
you choose to focus on.
I choose to focus on where Iwant to go instead of what other
people have.
And I think it's really hardbecause, for example, there's
(28:25):
this one content creatorrecently and I'm like in awe
because all of a sudden, in oneday, it's like a book deal
announcement and a TV showannouncement and I'm like, wow,
this is fucking incredible, howdid she do that?
And instead of going, oh man, Ican't believe she got this, I
can't believe she got that, I'mgoing, damn, anything's possible
(28:47):
, yeah, and and that is alsoreally hard and I've been doing
mindset work forever.
But that's the key, it's it'sall limiting beliefs.
I meet people all the time thatsay well, especially young
people.
I'm just not good at networking, you know I have a lot of
social anxiety and then I'm likebut do you enjoy conversations?
Yes, do you enjoy learning newthings?
(29:09):
Yes, so why are you tellingyourself you're bad at that?
Because you're not.
And I think it applies to thebook stuff and also with the
self-publishing thing.
I'll hear self-publishing'sgreat, you own everything, it's
your own deadline, your owntimeline.
You have all this flexibility.
Royalty is forever.
And then I know people that aresuper successful and I look at
(29:32):
someone like Mel Robbins who'sself-published, and look at her
now.
Look at her now, that was herfirst book that she
self-published and I believe theother three were not
self-published.
So you genuinely never know.
And then I know people thathave gone traditional but have
(29:52):
also done self-published.
So I don't think there's aright or wrong, it's whatever's
right for you in the moment.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Well, and it's really knowing.
Like you said earlier, you needdeadlines, you need that
accountability.
That is a question that I thinkauthors, among others, need to
consider when they're trying todecide which way do I want to go
?
Because when they're thinkinglike well, I want to go
traditional, because I want thebig advance and I want the
(30:15):
marketing tour, I'm immediatelylike, well, you might not get
the big advance and you'realmost surely not getting the
big marketing tour.
So if that is the only reasonto go with traditional, let's
have a chat On the flip side.
Again to your point withself-publishing, because it all
does fall on you.
Yes, you keep all the royalties, but if you're not willing to
(30:37):
talk about your book, whetheryou're traditionally or
self-public, there aren't goingto be any royalties.
So, it's kind of just learning.
It's not even well.
It's learning and accepting whoyou are and where you're
willing to grow.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, and it's very it's.
It's just very challenging tobet on yourself like that.
Like really it's about bettingon yourself.
It's about saying, can I and doI want to do it this way or
that way and regardless, you'restill going to be writing
anywhere between 40 and 70,000words on average for a book, and
(31:17):
that's a lot to write.
And so, regardless of which wayyou get to it, that's going to
be challenging and even when you, like you said, do traditional
like for all of the marketingfor this, I mean, it's all me.
So doing all of this marketingand constantly pushing out new
content and seeing what I can dois definitely it's.
(31:40):
It's fun because I haveflexibility and also I'm like,
guys, be really nice, we didsomething.
It would be really nice, we didsomething.
It would be really nice if Icould come into the office, make
some content.
But at the end of the day, I'mjust grateful to have you know
my name next to the imprint.
I think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
No, absolutely.
The last question I always askis what are you reading right
now, or listening, because thatcounts.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, right now, or listening, because that counts.
Yeah, I honestly pick books upall the time and set them down
so genuinely, I don't haveanything specific.
I read a lot of news articleson the creator economy like
almost every day.
(32:27):
I'm reading a lot in like DigiDay and Adweek, the information
Forbes.
I'm in there quite a bit andthat's taking up a lot of my
reading time.
But I definitely love a lot ofself-help books.
I got about 75% through the Letthem book so I loved reading it
(32:47):
for what it's worth.
And something that genuinelystuck out to me was this concept
about friendship and I know Meltalks so much specifically
about let them do whateverthey're going to do.
But for me the part aboutfriendship was so applicable
because I recently have moved toNew Jersey from the city and
not like Jersey City, like thesuburbs, and I love it, don't
(33:09):
get me wrong but for a while Iwas like I just I'm not making
any friends.
It's such a bummer.
I'm so like lonely.
And in this book Mel talks aboutlike the great scattering that
happens when you're in collegeand when you're in high school
and when you're doing your workand all your friends are
everywhere, all over the countrynow and she had told this
(33:32):
anecdotal story about how shesaid to one of her daughters who
is hating where she went toschool she wasn't making friends
.
She was like you have to try itfor a year.
You have to just go up topeople and try saying hello,
seeing what's up and seeingwhat's going to happen.
So I pushed myself to go onbubble BFF post on LinkedIn that
I'm open to meeting new people,message people on Instagram,
(33:56):
and so I did that and I madelike a handful of really amazing
new friends In just a fewmonths of trying.
I was like I can try for a yearbefore I cross my arms and have
a sourpuss face that you knowI'm not making friends or that
I'm lonely and really it.
What that taught me is thatit's, it's just up, it's up to
(34:16):
your action, right, it's up towhat you want to do.
So I've been really loving thatand, as I mentioned, my friend
Carrie's book is recently out aswell, so I've been getting a
little bit into that.
I got my mom a cookbook fromMagnolia Bakery.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
They released their icebox dessert cookbook, so
getting into that, that would bea whole bunch of interest fails
for me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
So definitely a wide variety.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, oh, I love that .
Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Thank you, I'll put all the links in the show notes
Amazing Well, thanks for havingme.
This was so fun and I lovechatting about this.
I am so intrigued by what you've done here, but I
don't fully understand it, so Iwant to ask some questions.
A kid's book about chronicillness was not originally with
Penguin right?
Can you tell that story of howthis all kind of came to be?
Go Yep.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So it definitely happened in a really beautiful
what I like to call happenstance, and I originally had been
posting online and talking aboutliving with chronic illness
online for years.
At this point In 2022, I postedon LinkedIn about creating
(00:43):
representation for women dealingwith chronic illness and I
wanted to be in the SportsIllustrated swimsuit search.
So I submitted on LinkedIn,which had never been done before
, apparently, and that was whatgot me into the magazine.
So at that point, I had beenreally involved in advocacy and
speaking about my story andwhatnot.
(01:04):
And then, by the end of 2022, Ihad seen a friend of mine write
a book with a kid's co aboutself-love.
His name is Brandon Farbstein.
He's a really amazing disabilityrights advocate, and so I
reached out to the kids co teamand was like yo, what's the deal
?
Would love to write a bookabout chronic illness.
I know you've written some ondisability and different kinds
(01:26):
of conditions, but I don'treally want to get super
specific with what I'm dealingwith.
Would love to maybe worktogether.
And they're like yeah, we lovethis idea, let's do it.
So in 2023, or we wrote it inJanuary 2023, it was designed
and packaged and then ready tolaunch by March of 2023.
We put together this beautifulbook launch that I hosted twice,
(01:50):
two book launches for thepromotion and it was so fun.
I did a private like seateddinner and I had everything down
to the menu color coordinatedin the flowers.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
And I saw that flower bouquet, down to the menu,
color coordinated and theflowers, and I saw that flower
bouquet.
Did you can I ask, did you fundthat, or was that done by a
kids co?
the funding for the booklaunches was me, yeah and I
always ask, because I like to betransparent, like I think that
so many people do think oh, ifI'm with a big, even if I'm with
a traditional house, which Ithink a kid's co would be
(02:26):
considered that right, you'restill doing a lot of your own
marketing, okay, so you, you, dothis launch.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
And, yeah, I mean it was super successful.
Right after I launched the book, I was going on the today show
to talk about living withchronic illness and dealing with
endometriosis, and they evenhighlighted my book in that,
which was so cool.
And then just some more organicpress as I was doing speaking
engagements, I'd bring the bookwith me and I would take
(02:57):
pictures there, kind of likewhat I'm doing now.
That's, that was all 2023.
And even 2024.
And it always was in thebackground of my photos and desk
setup and whatnot.
And then at the beginning ofthis year I got an email from
the publishing team saying hey,we're updating your contract.
We're now with DK Books, and Ihad heard of the acquisition,
(03:19):
but I didn't really understandhow it would impact me.
And so I looked over and I'mlike wait a second, what does
this mean?
Then a couple of months went byafter I signed the contract and
I get another email saying hey,gigi, your book is relaunching
with Penguin in a month.
And I'm like whoa, what do youmean?
And they're like yeah, like,your book is officially now
(03:43):
ready to rock and roll.
It has brand new packaging.
It has the DK logo on it, hasthe Penguin logo on it as well
as the Akitsuko logo, so it'salmost like three separate
things all in one, because theDK is an imprint of Penguin and,
by proxy, now Akitsuko is, andso that is how it happened.
(04:04):
Now a kids co is, and so thatis how it happened and I've just
been re doing a relaunch andenjoying everything that's
coming with it and being reallysilly.
Just yesterday I was working anevent with Adobe and I can, you
know, send you these links, butI decided to take my mini
sticker book around the citywith me and it was just so funny
(04:27):
.
So I have all these videos thatI'm going to compile into like
a blog of my mini book.
But it's just been such a blast.
And now at speaking engagementsagain I'm like oh well, you can
buy 50 books for you know, thefirst 50 people that come, and
it's just been really awesome torelaunch and I'm super proud
that it's even gotten here.
And another thing about thewhole how did it happen which
(04:51):
again is why I led with it was ahappenstance, is because back
in November and anybodylistening that's familiar with
motivational speakers, self help, all of that I am a big fan of,
like Tony Robbins and MelRobbins and Jay Shetty and Gabby
Bernstein all these like bigmotivational figures.
So back in November I went to aTony Robbins UPW and I went
(05:14):
with some friends and by the endof it we're like so what are
our goals for next year?
Like this time next year, whatwill happen?
And I'm like off the bat.
First things first.
I will have a book with a majorpublishing house.
Like that was like.
I was like I don't really carewhat it's gonna look like, but I
know that it will happen.
And then I, you know, had tocome up with some other things.
(05:34):
And then two months later, yeah, they're like, by the way.
And and now it's like real, andI'm like whoa crazy.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
What's really fun about your looking on Instagram
and how you're promoting it ishow simple book promotion can be
.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
So, right.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Lots of times people are so and I get it right.
It can be so overwhelming tofeel like I have to post this
many times or I have to show myface, or there are different
things that people don't want todo or aren't yet comfortable
doing, and I think you have somereally unique and fun ways.
I mean, it's just, it's theopportunities sort of just
(06:14):
present themselves, like yousaid with your sticker, and just
showing that in all differentplaces.
Yeah, like you know and have.
It's that simple and I'll dosome of these as video clips so
that people can see that, but ofcourse, I'll put your Instagram
handle in the episode so theycan go look at it.
But it can be that simple andit's just the repetitive.
(06:34):
What caused you to want to doit as a children's book as
opposed to, say, a memoir or anonfiction of another sort?
What?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
was.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
I love this question and just to piggyback on what
you said before about themarketing of it, it's genuinely
whatever feels natural to you.
So I know for other booklaunches and usually most likely
with bigger books that aregetting launched, like a memoir
or a full adult nonfiction book,they're going to do a mailer
with a box with some customizedstuff.
(07:07):
A friend of mine actually justlaunched her book.
Her name's Terry Kirpin and shejust did the whisper group or
the whisper method.
I got to find it.
She sent me a portable chargerand it has been so awesome.
Yeah, here it is.
She sent me a portable chargerand it has her company's logo on
it, but her book was called theWhisper Method, I think, and so
(07:29):
I've been using this since shesent it to me and I'm like that
is a really smart one.
Another creator that I'm kind offriends with sent out one for
her book and they included likea notebook that was on theme
with the books.
You know, it doesn't have to besomething crazy, it doesn't
have to be overly branded, aslong as it fits the theme.
I think that's really cool andfor me right now I'm just like
(07:51):
who can I get the book in frontof and also, what are my
relationships with press Talkabout it.
So, for example, I alsorecently got a breast reduction,
like six months ago.
I also recently got a breastreduction, like six months ago,
and I know that certainpublications would kind of like
to talk about that, becausebreast reductions aren't really
(08:11):
talked about that much.
It's usually breastaugmentations or plastic surgery
.
For me, I was like, let me pitchthe angle.
And it's all in the angle.
Let me pitch this.
As you know, yes, I got thesurgery and I have a book coming
out, and I got the surgerybecause of my chronic pain and
fatigue and had I not done thatit, you know, I could have still
(08:34):
been dealing with all of thisand go check out my book.
So it's really strategic in theway that I've been talking
about it online and somearticles are going to be coming
out soon related to that.
So I think it's going to bereally fun to kind of see happen
.
But definitely just think aboutthe pitch, think about the
angle.
I could talk about Gen Z atwork, gen Z being
(08:57):
entrepreneurial, future of work,living with chronic illness.
I mean, the possibilities arehonestly pretty endless when it
comes to promoting this book andhow I can talk to other parts
of my career and say by the way,there's a book.
So to anybody listening that ishaving trouble, you don't need
to go crazy photos anywhere yougo.
I bring it with me in my purse,my backpack, every single place
(09:19):
I go.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I do too, not in my purse, cause I just have this
like little leather walletbecause it's the bigger my purse
in my backpack every singleplace I go.
I do not in my purse because Ijust have this like little
leather wallet because it's thebigger my purse, the more stuff
I'll take with me.
So I try to keep it, you know.
But I I try to always have themin my car because anytime I see
a free little library or I'veleft them in waiting rooms, I've
left them in airports manytimes, like at the gate, I'll
(09:39):
just leave them with a littlenote that says you know, if you
found this, it's just.
But you said something that Ithink is extremely important,
which is a lot of people feelreally uncomfortable.
I don't think you do, but a lotof people do.
Talking about the book andtalking about themselves like
that Just feel they're not.
You've been doing it for awhile in other capacities.
Either you've always beencomfortable, which some people
(10:06):
just are, or you've gottencomfortable.
When people aren't yet there,they're like I don't, I feel it
and I say you know, here's thething.
You're not probably going toget anywhere.
Talking about your book, youtalk about something peripheral
to the book.
And then it's like oh, by theway, or whoever's interviewing
you will kind of do that part ofthe promotion for you, or
whoever's interviewing you willkind of do that part of the
promotion for you.
So you don't even have to do itand it can feel a lot more
comfortable talking about thatother thing than saying hi, I,
(10:30):
you know, I'm Gigi, and I wrotea book go buy it.
That, yeah, that's not evensomething that works terribly
well.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
A video that I have coming out soon is basically
like I started my career with myphone and a story about a girl
living with chronic illness, andessentially that is the truth
of my career trajectory.
That is how it started and itdoesn't have to be crazy, crazy
and I went on to talk more about.
If you know something's goingon with, like the public
speaking circuit and nobodywants to pay, well, I have a
book to rely on.
(11:09):
If something's going on withbook sales, well, I have my
brand deal to rely on, and so,like everything lives within its
own ecosystem and anybodythat's scared to promote their
book.
I mean, you wrote a book likehow do you want to sell books,
or did you just want to write abook?
To write a book Becauseotherwise, maybe then just
become a professor.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
You know teaching about certain things are not
making enough money to live onon their own off book sales.
That's just a fact.
And so you've got these branddeals.
I was loving watching some ofyour different perspectives
(11:51):
because you know your generation, like you and I are of a bit of
a different, differentgenerations, right?
So, like you, my oldestdaughter is almost 26 and she's
there, right so you guys areright there, and it's so fun to
listen to her talk about thecontent creation world and it's
something that when I was 27, 26, 27, I wasn't a thing, right,
(12:16):
like we barely had cell phonesat that point.
It's crazy.
So can you, are you comfortabletalking a little bit about when
people are wanting to go outand do sort of these brand deals
in conjunction with a book ornot in conjunction?
How do you go about that in away that I think a lot of people
(12:37):
feel like, well, I can't dothat, I don't have a very big
platform.
I mean, is there a requirementfor that?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Well, since I'm not on brand marketing teams, I
can't exactly speak to whattheir strategy is, but at least
my strategy.
As an example, I went to aconference this past weekend
called Teachable and CreatorEconomy, New York City Connect,
and the whole point of theconference is to talk about
building and scaling a businessas a freelancer, which is what
(13:05):
content creators are, andinfluencers are freelancers and
talk about building asustainable business.
And so in my video there is aportion of the video where I say
my favorite part of the day wasthinking about how I do this
myself with things like publicspeaking, writing a book or even
making your dog into aninfluencer.
(13:26):
And so this is actually goingto be a sponsored post promoting
Teachable and the conferencethat I went to.
But, as you can see from whatI'm telling you, I did hold up
my book in that and Istrategically brought my book
with me.
I also brought my dog with meso that I could use him in the
video, because he does havefollowers and he also is making
(13:50):
money as a content creator.
But I like to think about youknow, what are the things that
you need that can fuel yourbusiness or that are related
peripherally to your book, right.
So, for example, Carrie's bookand I'm assuming this is the
strategy behind it.
I haven't spoken to her aboutit, but this is what I take away
(14:13):
from it as a younger marketerHer book is all about helping
women exit their companies thatthey founded.
And so what does a womanfounder always need?
A portable charger becauseshe's always going around the
meetings and whatnot.
So I don't know if she had abrand deal with this brand or if
she just had them made, but ifshe were to have had a brand
(14:36):
deal about it, it would havemade sense Because she could
have talked about how she'salways on the go and doesn't
want to think about getting acharger.
She just sticks it to her phoneand goes and handles what she
needs to do best in business.
So really, anything you're using, even the podcast equipment
that you're using to promote thebook, the headphones you're
using to record the microphonesyou're using, the purse you use
(15:00):
while you're on the go I meanthe possibilities are honestly
super endless.
It's all in how you tie it inand tell your story with it.
And I would say I think peoplemake money these days with
around a thousand followers.
You don't really need that much.
I can't guarantee you would geta lot of money for that, but
you could still get something.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Right and and not to oversimplify it, because I think
one of the challenges is thatsometimes people who especially
who are selling a course on howto do it are like it's so simple
, if I did it, you can do it,and then it's like no, it's not
really that simple.
So I certainly don't want tooversimplify the process.
At the most basic level.
(15:42):
Is it, as see the air quotessimple as simply reaching out to
those brands that you'd like topartner with and saying this is
who I am Like.
Can you speak to that?
Are you comfortable speaking tothat?
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Of course.
Yeah, I think there's a lotthat goes into it.
Yes, it's that simple, thatgoes into it.
Yes, it's that simple.
And there's a lot of othernuanced curriculum I would say
that goes into teaching peoplehow to do this right.
It's about relationshipbuilding.
It's about talking with yourpublisher.
What people do they haverelationships with right, like,
(16:15):
for example, certain times whenyou're doing a book launch or
book talk, they'll partner upwith a team at a big social
platform like Meta, for example.
So Meta has a program withtheir threads team, which is you
know, everyone knows whatthreads is and it's called the
threads book club and they hostmonthly or weekly book club
(16:37):
events where they invitecreators to come in and one
author and then they have amoderated panel.
It's a whole book launch eventor book around a book launch
usually, and it's just a momentfor community and connection and
to get a hands on question fromthe author to the audience.
And that is not necessarily thedoing of the author.
(17:00):
That's usually the publishinghouse and these big platforms.
So it can be as simple as thatand then showing up and after
you've written it, or you couldgo the route of hiring a
publicist or an agency to kindof coordinate and handle, which
would probably require someupfront fees, but it could
result in a longer termpartnership.
(17:21):
And then, last but not least,when you do reach out, that is
the first 25% of it, right, thenext 50% is nurturing a
relationship and talking withsomebody, getting on a call
pitching your idea, and then thenext 5% after that would be
really closing the deal.
And then the last remainder 20percent, or however much, I
(17:44):
don't even know where I'm atwith my numbers I lost count.
I lost count but I think youguys get what I'm saying.
The remaining portion, whichshould be about 20 percent, will
be in execution and alsoposting and getting that content
up and then the wrap up ofcourse.
That content up and then thewrap up, of course.
(18:05):
Campaign strategy is not simpleand it can be simple to an
extent, but even working with apublisher to get a unique idea
created is a challenge becauseof so much going on internally
and they don't always havebudget and your schedule doesn't
align and their schedule, Imean, you know it's.
It's very elaborate to planthese things and the lack, the
(18:27):
only I would say thing close toa brand partnership that I did
is I partnered with Shopifybecause a kid's co is run on
Shopify and so the space in NewYork city graciously let me have
it for an afternoon and I had,I think, about 50 or 60 people
come to a private book talk andit was really lovely.
(18:48):
But they donated the space andI donated my time and my
platform to add Shopify andinclude them and all of that.
But now that it's with Penguin,I don't think they're on
Shopify anymore.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Well, and this is okay, this is a hypothetical
question, but I think you're agreat person to ask because of
how you move in the space If youwere an indie author, so if you
were self-published or you hadused a hybrid publisher or some
such thing, and maybe you evenfelt this way I don't know, I
don't want to make an assumption, but with a kids' co because
(19:25):
they're not seen as one of thebig guys, right what would your
approach?
Would you still have had thesame approach of trying to
create these partnerships andrelationships, and maybe with
different people, but do youthink that still would have been
your?
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Yeah, I think so.
I think the reason I would saythe approach would be the same
is because I know when and Iknow you asked me this question
earlier that I did not answeryet but why it's why kids book
over an adult book.
It just happened that way.
Answer yet, but why it's whykids book over an adult book.
It just happened that way.
(20:04):
But when I write the longerbook, it would be the same, I
would.
I will have the book with me atall times.
I will be talking about it.
You know, it's not somethingthat I think should really be
brushed off.
Oh yeah, I wrote a book like.
Whenever somebody writes a bookit's like oh my God, tell me
about me, about it.
Like you never really hearauthors.
Kind of just be like oh yeah,I've written a book like so
(20:25):
casually, and I think I thinkthere's I don't know what the
percentage is, but not everybodywho wants to write a book does
and not everybody who buys abook program to self-publish
finishes.
Believe me, I know.
Yeah, I mean same.
(20:46):
I bought two differentself-publishing things and I
just couldn't get through itbecause for me it just wasn't
aligned.
Is what it comes down to In whatway?
I'm curious to be on a deadlinethat I do not set and it's
(21:11):
almost like I need to be inschool doing it and in a way,
when you're either getting inadvance or when you have big
shoes to fill, it almost is likemotivation to get it done and
make it extraordinary and reallymake it a labor of love.
But the reason a children'sbook was definitely just again,
things happened to the pointwhere I decided, okay, I feel
(21:32):
like it's good.
I spoke with them, I knew Iwanted to make something happen
quickly and they had thecapacity at the time to take me
on as a project.
So we decided to do it and I'vejust kind of run with it and
the fact that now it's out withPenguin is really, really
special and, I think, also justa manifestation of them
believing in their work and mealso saying you know what?
(21:53):
I have?
This book, I love this book.
I'm really proud of this bookand it doesn't matter if I sell
10 copies or 1000 copies or10,000 copies, like I want
people to hear the story aboutliving with a chronic illness.
And, interestingly enough, thischildren's book and all of
(22:14):
their books do not have anyillustrations.
It's all graphic and typographybased, which I think is pretty
unique for children's books, andit makes them stand out because
they want the book to be aconversation starter, which is
also a great selling point,because it's not just for kids
Now, it's for anybody who wantsto really understand on a
(22:35):
personal level what living with.
I do talk about the specificconditions that I've dealt with,
but it can be applied to anycondition.
Just kind of apply it toyourself.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I mean, think about how many people give, um, oh,
the places you'll go as agraduation gift or like.
I have several copies thatseveral different people have
given me of the children's book.
What would you do with an idea?
So I think there's somethingabout children's books, the
simplicity of them, that lots oftimes, if a topic and certainly
chronic illness is a topic thatcan feel heavy, and when people
(23:11):
are recently diagnosed or some,and they're just trying to kind
of ease their way in withsomething that's a little more
light, that's an obvious placeto to, to go Right, and it makes
a great gift, it makes a greatstarting point.
You mentioned, though, doingthe other version.
So are you, are you doing orconsidering doing, a different?
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yes, I am about to start pitching out to agents
with my proposal and coupleearly early additions of some
chapters that I've written, andI think it's a great next step
for me and where I'm at rightnow I just am focused on this
book launch and as soon as weget through the summer and while
(23:57):
we are getting through thesummer, I will have my team kind
of start pitching out so thathopefully by the end of the year
something is signed, sealed,delivered, and if it is not by
the end of the year, it will bewithin a year and we can record
another one.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I, you know how do you tune out and maybe you don't
.
So how do you manage all of thenoise in the space?
Because I think I get reallyoverwhelmed, even with all the
you should do this and you haveto do this, and I don't so much
I take that back a little bitbecause I don't as much today,
but in the, I'd say, eight tocertainly 15 years ago I really
(24:38):
battled that.
And you're in this space whereI think for your age group,
you're almost more used to thenoise than I am, so maybe that
makes it easier.
But I'm curious.
I love your conviction of justbeing like.
This is the next best step forme.
How do you get to that placewhen I have to imagine that
(25:03):
there are people around you?
Or am I wrong that there arepeople around you saying no,
here's what you should do.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I'm a very big believer in what's meant for me
will find me, and also, closedmouths don't get fed.
So I take every meeting that Ibelieve will be valuable.
And an example of this is afriend of mine worked at a new
kind of AI tech startup and wemet at a conference and we
didn't get to chat at theconference.
(25:29):
So we had a meeting and I'mlike what led you to this career
?
And then she goes on to tell mehow she was a former book agent
at WMB and I'm like wait, can Iask you about book stuff?
So now our relationship ispredominantly me helping her
find a role in social media,because she since left the
company, and her helping me withall the book stuff.
(25:50):
And she's like you literallyhave the best case scenario
where this book is relaunchingwith a major, you know
publishing house and you can usethat as leverage for pitching
out a manuscript and regardlessof how many you sell, she was
like I don't think it willmatter, because a children's
book is so different thanselling an adult nonfiction book
(26:12):
, and so I trust that becauseshe worked there.
I have other people in my orbitthat are saying you know, well,
I'm happy to look over yourmanuscript.
It should be, or your bookproposal, it should be like this
.
Then I have another personwho's like a four time self
published author or no, fourtime book deal book publishing
(26:36):
house author, first time selfpublished this summer or this
fall and she's like, oh, youshould change this, this and
that.
Then I'm meeting with speakingcoaches and they're like you're
super great, you just need a fewtweaks and all you have to do
is this, this and that.
When you're talking about yourbook and your elevator pitch and
then somebody else is saying,oh, you could get multi six
figures for a book deal,somebody else is saying you
(26:58):
won't get more than 20 grand.
So what do I believe in?
Who?
I'll believe it when I see iton a contract.
Really, it's that simple.
It's it's working towards whatI'm interested in, and I believe
that if I want to get to thepoint where I get a multi six
figure contract or a six figurecontract if I believe it's
possible, which I do there'sthings that I have to do in
(27:20):
order to do that.
That include more socialcontent, promoting this book,
more speaking engagements, moresales of this book or doing
corporate speaking.
There's all of these steps thatgo into it, that make me as a
whole package more valuable tothe publishing house.
That's going to give me anadvance.
(27:40):
I think of it strategically.
It's not at all like, oh, I'mjust going to see what happens.
With the brand deal thing, I'mat the point where I charge a
certain rate and so to write awhole book that I'm giving the
rights away forever to, inperpetuity, for the most part,
with royalties and whatnot, Ibelieve that I should be getting
(28:02):
paid a certain amount and Idon't really feel like settling
for anything less than what Ibelieve I should or shouldn't
get.
So it's strategic and in termsof noise, I mean, it's it's what
you choose to focus on.
I choose to focus on where Iwant to go instead of what other
people have.
And I think it's really hardbecause, for example, there's
(28:25):
this one content creatorrecently and I'm like in awe
because all of a sudden, in oneday, it's like a book deal
announcement and a TV showannouncement and I'm like, wow,
this is fucking incredible, howdid she do that?
And instead of going, oh man, Ican't believe she got this, I
can't believe she got that, I'mgoing, damn, anything's possible
(28:47):
, yeah, and and that is alsoreally hard and I've been doing
mindset work forever.
But that's the key, it's it'sall limiting beliefs.
I meet people all the time thatsay well, especially young
people.
I'm just not good at networking, you know I have a lot of
social anxiety and then I'm likebut do you enjoy conversations?
Yes, do you enjoy learning newthings?
(29:09):
Yes, so why are you tellingyourself you're bad at that?
Because you're not.
And I think it applies to thebook stuff and also with the
self-publishing thing.
I'll hear self-publishing'sgreat, you own everything, it's
your own deadline, your owntimeline.
You have all this flexibility.
Royalty is forever.
And then I know people that aresuper successful and I look at
(29:32):
someone like Mel Robbins who'sself-published, and look at her
now.
Look at her now, that was herfirst book that she
self-published and I believe theother three were not
self-published.
So you genuinely never know.
And then I know people thathave gone traditional but have
(29:52):
also done self-published.
So I don't think there's aright or wrong, it's whatever's
right for you in the moment.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Well, and it's really knowing.
Like you said earlier, you needdeadlines, you need that
accountability.
That is a question that I thinkauthors, among others, need to
consider when they're trying todecide which way do I want to go
?
Because when they're thinkinglike well, I want to go
traditional, because I want thebig advance and I want the
(30:15):
marketing tour, I'm immediatelylike, well, you might not get
the big advance and you'realmost surely not getting the
big marketing tour.
So if that is the only reasonto go with traditional, let's
have a chat On the flip side.
Again to your point withself-publishing, because it all
does fall on you.
Yes, you keep all the royalties, but if you're not willing to
(30:37):
talk about your book, whetheryou're traditionally or
self-public, there aren't goingto be any royalties.
So, it's kind of just learning.
It's not even well.
It's learning and accepting whoyou are and where you're
willing to grow.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, and it's very it's.
It's just very challenging tobet on yourself like that.
Like really it's about bettingon yourself.
It's about saying, can I and doI want to do it this way or
that way and regardless, you'restill going to be writing
anywhere between 40 and 70,000words on average for a book, and
(31:17):
that's a lot to write.
And so, regardless of which wayyou get to it, that's going to
be challenging and even when you, like you said, do traditional
like for all of the marketingfor this, I mean, it's all me.
So doing all of this marketingand constantly pushing out new
content and seeing what I can dois definitely it's.
(31:40):
It's fun because I haveflexibility and also I'm like,
guys, be really nice, we didsomething.
It would be really nice, we didsomething.
It would be really nice if Icould come into the office, make
some content.
But at the end of the day, I'mjust grateful to have you know
my name next to the imprint.
I think that's really cool.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
No, absolutely.
The last question I always askis what are you reading right
now, or listening, because thatcounts.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah, right now, or listening, because that counts.
Yeah, I honestly pick books upall the time and set them down
so genuinely, I don't haveanything specific.
I read a lot of news articleson the creator economy like
almost every day.
(32:27):
I'm reading a lot in like DigiDay and Adweek, the information
Forbes.
I'm in there quite a bit andthat's taking up a lot of my
reading time.
But I definitely love a lot ofself-help books.
I got about 75% through the Letthem book so I loved reading it
(32:47):
for what it's worth.
And something that genuinelystuck out to me was this concept
about friendship and I know Meltalks so much specifically
about let them do whateverthey're going to do.
But for me the part aboutfriendship was so applicable
because I recently have moved toNew Jersey from the city and
not like Jersey City, like thesuburbs, and I love it, don't
(33:09):
get me wrong but for a while Iwas like I just I'm not making
any friends.
It's such a bummer.
I'm so like lonely.
And in this book Mel talks aboutlike the great scattering that
happens when you're in collegeand when you're in high school
and when you're doing your workand all your friends are
everywhere, all over the countrynow and she had told this
(33:32):
anecdotal story about how shesaid to one of her daughters who
is hating where she went toschool she wasn't making friends
.
She was like you have to try itfor a year.
You have to just go up topeople and try saying hello,
seeing what's up and seeingwhat's going to happen.
So I pushed myself to go onbubble BFF post on LinkedIn that
I'm open to meeting new people,message people on Instagram,
(33:56):
and so I did that and I madelike a handful of really amazing
new friends In just a fewmonths of trying.
I was like I can try for a yearbefore I cross my arms and have
a sourpuss face that you knowI'm not making friends or that
I'm lonely and really it.
What that taught me is thatit's, it's just up, it's up to
(34:16):
your action, right, it's up towhat you want to do.
So I've been really loving thatand, as I mentioned, my friend
Carrie's book is recently out aswell, so I've been getting a
little bit into that.
I got my mom a cookbook fromMagnolia Bakery.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
They released their icebox dessert cookbook, so
getting into that, that would bea whole bunch of interest fails
for me, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
So definitely a wide variety.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Yeah, oh, I love that .
Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Thank you, I'll put all the links in the show notes
Amazing Well, thanks for havingme.
This was so fun and I lovechatting about this.
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