July 23, 2025 • 30 mins
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If you’re the kind of person who devours psychological thrillers but also wants to be emotionally sucker-punched (in the best way), Lauren Oliver’s What Happened to Lucy Vale needs to be on your radar.
In this episode, Lauren takes us behind the scenes of what might be her most structurally daring novel to date. Set in a small Indiana town with a possibly-haunted house at its core, Lucy Vale unspools two eerie mysteries—one set in the past, one unraveling in real time—using both traditional storytelling and a collective “we” voice (think The Virgin Suicides meets Reddit sleuth thread).
This book took years to write, and when you hear how the pieces click into place, you’ll understand why.
Through this book, she challenges us to ask: What if we’re not always the hero in someone else’s story?
We also dive into Lauren’s writing journey, which is less “neat staircase to the top” and more “rollercoaster meets overgrown hiking trail.” She talks honestly about the pressure to stick to one genre, the heartbreak of writing books that don’t land, and the weird freedom in failure. “I’d rather have a diversified breaking of my heart,” she says.
So whether you’re obsessed with fresh storytelling formats, fascinated by how online culture is warping our real-life relationships, or just here for the haunted-house vibes, What Happened to Lucy Vale is a must-read and this conversation is a must-listen.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everybody and welcome back.
All right, I am so excitedtoday to be talking to Lauren
Oliver.
I have been reading this gemwhat Happened to Lucy Vale?
Which?
This doesn't come out, lauren,until September.
Right, okay, I'm going to needeveryone to get this on the
pre-order list.
Like, just get it in the cartsnow.
I have so many questions to askyou about this.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is your seventh novel yes, oh, my goodness.
No, it's like my fifth novel.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
It is.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, I've written a lot.
I guess I didn't include all ofthem in the previous titles
list.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Okay, well, somewhere I just want to be clear
somewhere it said seventh.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Okay, well, it's not.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It's like my 20th, but you know, at a certain point
it's like who's counting?
Well, we all are in this spaceLike kids, right.
Once you reach a certain number, we all stop counting or I did
but books, they all count, okay.
So, of the six that are listedin the beginning of this book, I
have to say that the titles ofthem feel very on the nose right
now.
We have Broken Things, panic,right, the Delirium Trilogy and
(01:12):
then what Happened to Lucy Vale.
I feel like it could veryeasily be like what's Happened?
To just fill in the blank.
We could put all kinds ofthings.
Now that I know there are 20,I'm going to actually start with
a different question, but thisbook is kind of rocking me in a
very good way.
This is so complicated.
I need to know how you did this.
(01:34):
So, for people who don't know,it's multiple POV.
One of the POVs is we, so it'sa collective Right.
So it's a collective right, andthen the collective, if you
will, has these text ormessenger chats.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yes, okay yeah, just yes.
So should I say what the bookis about go for it.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
just don't give anything away, because I'm on
page, I don't know two something, so just don't know two
something, so just don't get mestarted.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, what happened to Lucy Vale is, very loosely
speaking, about twointerconnected mysteries that
are all linked to the same house, kind of what ends up becoming
a fabled, almost like hauntedhouse called the Faraday House
in a small Indiana town.
You know it has a lot of.
There are themes in whathappened to Lucy Vale.
First of all, about therepetition, cyclical violence,
(02:26):
things like that, but also aboutonline culture in general and
how we both become a kind ofhave become a kind of Greek
chorus that narrates therealities of other people's
lives and also end up then,unlike a Greek chorus, actually
influencing the action andpotentially playing a role that
(02:49):
we don't ourselves anticipate.
So the answer to your questionabout how I did it was yeah.
No, it was like an impossiblebook to write.
It took me five years.
It was awful.
My publishers were so mad andyou know I was working on it
continuously.
But with this book I reallyunderstood certain elements of
the character.
(03:09):
I knew the characters and Iknew that theme was one I wanted
to explore and I knew I wantedto tackle a wee perspective.
You know, the first book I everread from a wee perspective was
the Virgin Suicides.
Then there was a great book byJoshua Ferris called.
Then we Came to the End and Ijust those books really lit me
up and I'd always wanted totackle it and it seemed
(03:30):
appropriate for this theme.
But man, it's hard, it's sohard.
And the funny thing is is thatso I was writing and I would
draft and draft and then itwouldn't work and I would
realize that I was kind ofcheating with the perspective
and people knew things theyshouldn't know.
And wait, what do you mean?
You were cheating.
Well, you know, I would say,you know I would be writing from
(03:51):
the we perspective, but then Iwould suddenly kind of be
shifting into the third personperspective because I wanted to
follow a certain character andyou know, or I would.
Originally, the we perspectivewas an entire grade, right, but
then there were just craftchallenges of.
Were you talking abouteverybody in that grade all the
(04:11):
time?
Whenever you used we, how didyou denote subcategories?
And also, I was like, how wouldthey know?
I started to crave.
I was like what I really want,what would be really perfect, is
if there was an onlinetechnology like Twitter, but it
could be private and only for asingle group of people.
(04:32):
I, as soon as I went on Discord, which is like a private
Twitter where you can just havelittle communities and anybody
can make a Discord, I was like,oh my God, this is the
(04:52):
technology Now.
That said, it still took meyears to finish.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
But I'm not like you know.
So the names.
This part, I think, is so Idon't know if I say interesting
or fascinating one more time ina podcast Lauren, like I need a
new word, but so we've got highas a Kyle, like their names.
How fun was this?
I was like I thought this islike naming nail polish colors.
(05:17):
Yeah, rhythm, spin doctor,who's a cash.
He's like cash money, right, so, and the other thing that's
that's fun about this, but Ihave to do it slowly is that
much like on Discord or even ina text thread, the same person
will message, so they'll saythree things, but it's three,
(05:39):
right, one after the other asopposed to one.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Or on Discord, I would always find, you know,
because obviously I went onDiscord and I was involved and
actually I really liked Discord.
But or, even more confusingly,somebody will write, somebody
will write something totallyunrelated and then you know,
person C will respond to personA and person D will respond to
person B and it's just thisincredibly like fluid, chaotic,
(06:07):
very organic exchange andactually I mean, I think again
for this book, some books arereally linear.
The book I wrote after whatHappened to Lucy Vale, which
comes out, you know, not thisSeptember but next May, very
linear.
I picked it up.
I started writing page one, Iended at page.
You know, I picked it up.
I started writing page one, Iended at page.
You know, whatever it was, Iended at page one and it was
(06:29):
just like a clean shot.
You know, both in narrativestructure and process.
Lucy Vale was much more thistentacled thing that took me in
unexpected directions andrevealed things.
I mean much like one of thoseorganic, you know, conversations
that is featured, you know, oris represented by the discord
(06:51):
messages in the book.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah Well, and to keep it all, I'm curious.
Of course I'm always curiousabout first drafts.
Was this just what was it?
I don't, I don't want to putwords.
Was it quick, unwieldy?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Like yeah, I mean, I wouldn't even call what I did
for many years draft.
I think I did pieces.
I mean I did part one over inthe book 20 times.
You know, maybe part two wasfour, maybe I had totally
different part threes and had tochange them.
(07:26):
I really wrote it in.
It was very ungainly and veryunwieldy.
Okay yeah, I mean it just was areal challenge and also I mean
I did.
There was I mean even on a linelevel.
I really was really precious insome ways about it, which is
(07:46):
funny because you can'tnecessarily tell the things that
are hard for an author or not.
So it's not as though I meanthere are some great lines in
there, like one of my favoritelines I've ever written, which
is August was crawling on itshands and knees through a heat
wave.
I love that line.
Yes, yeah, like 40 minutes, youknow, or more, but you know, I
mean it's meant to be as complexas it is.
(08:09):
It's meant to be breathy andfun even in some places to read,
in many places, because it doesultimately become very heavy
and I tolerate that for a wholebook, and that's also not the
reality of how peoplecommunicate online, you know,
and how Exactly.
Yeah, so, but yeah, it was just.
It was a very messy process tocompose into a whole and I did
(08:34):
feel like this with this one.
Again, some books you feel thatyou're kind of stringing
together an arrow on a bow andletting it loose.
This one was like this weirdmessy symphony that I had to
compose into a whole.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, and I, I.
It's interesting because againthere's the word again when you
get to the end of it and itworks, which this does.
It just keeps me going and I'vegot, I've got very
compartmentalized, which I'msurprised by for me, frankly,
that I have such a wellcompartmentalized vision or view
of all the different charactersRachel and Lucy and Akash, and
(09:11):
even Nina, who is missing, Right, I mean, or or presumed dead,
so like, and then the who's, theswimmer, Tommy, Tommy Swift,
right.
So I have this and I mean it.
Either I have to imagine iteither works or it doesn't.
But I, and it does, but I haveto imagine it's extremely
(09:34):
tedious and tenuous to get it tothe point where it does work,
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And also agonizing in a waybecause, again, for me,
absolutely.
And also agonizing in a waybecause, again for me, with this
book, you know, again A, thishad been a craft challenge I'd
wanted to take on basically mywhole life.
And then B ultimately it doeskind of all come together in.
(10:03):
I mean, ultimately it is a verysad book.
I think it's a very true bookbut it's sad and there were
things I wanted to say that Idon't.
You know that I felt that therewere things that were important
for me to say in this book andso I really wanted it to work.
You know, I mean every book isdifferent and again, I mean I'm
(10:24):
always doing the best I can inany given moment.
But there are certainly booksI've written because I thought
the idea was cool or I justwanted to explore a world.
This was more of a book where Iactually wanted to leave people
with a thought or a feeling orabout something important, you
know.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So can you, without giving anything away, what were
some of the things that youreally wanted to speak to and
touch upon in this book and hadto kind of find a way into it?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, I mean I wanted to touch about on the fact that
you know, we kind of consumeand chew people up like gossip,
especially nowadays, and, likeyou know, like content, other
people become content, theircontent, and you know we are the
heroes of the story.
I also wanted that was a bigtheme.
So, content, and you know weare the heroes of the story, I
also wanted that was a big theme.
So, first of all, you know, oneof the themes was just that you
(11:19):
know you really can never trulyknow, you never know what's
actually going on.
And, again, consuming somethingand dissecting it for content
is not the same thing asconsidering it and really having
access to truth about it,considering it and really having
access to truth about it.
Another one was simply that youknow we should all be careful of
(11:44):
the role we play in otherpeople's stories.
In other words, in our storieswe're always heroes, but it
takes a lot of maturity andsophistication and so you know,
and the hero, almost anything isjustified from the hero, right?
I mean, just watch a Marvelmovie, you can kill as many
people as you want, you're stillthe hero, but you know we're
not the heroes in other people'sstories.
We play different roles, and Ithink it's important to think
about which ones those are, tothe best of our ability.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Which ones we, which roles we play in other people's
stories.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean to some extentcan't control it, but to others
you can right Like there's.
If you actually strip away thenarrative justification we give
to much of why we do what we doand you settle back into what is
the actual behavior what areliterally, what are we doing?
(12:33):
Right, it becomes much clearerand easier to to kind of to see
morally where we sit.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It's making me think this is kind of give me another
word.
I beg of you, interesting, giveme another one, something
Thought provoking.
This is thank you so much.
Okay, fine, I'm getting out thethesaurus.
This is very thought-provokingthat I am a show that I am
borderline.
Are you pulling up a thesaurusright now?
I love you so much.
(13:04):
I need a list.
Can you just have them at theready, because it's gonna happen
again yeah, yeah, the show thatI'm borderline obsessed with is
couples therapy, which is sofunny because I'm not in a
couple, but I love watching theway that I don't think I ever
understood that, in addition tothere being a therapist, there
(13:26):
can be a behavior analyst, whichis my understanding of what
this doctor is.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Dr, Orna.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
That's what she does.
Is helps the individuals withinthese couples see what their
behavior is and where it comesfrom and why they do it, and so
it's a totally different lensfrom which, I think, to look at
behavior than just pointingfingers and saying whatever it
(13:54):
is.
We're saying like I fixed youor your things, or your fault or
my fault, whatever, exactlyComing from that hero
perspective.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Exactly.
Yeah, so these things are, youknow, those things are important
to me and you know this is alsoa basis of this is real.
I'm in recovery and have beenfor years, and this is the basis
of recovery work, which is thebelief that, like the only thing
you are in control of is yourown action and choices.
And so, for example, ifsomebody cuts you off rudely on
(14:26):
the highway and then you screamout F you, you are, you're not
responsible for the one personcutting you off.
That's on them, but what youare responsible for is the fact
that you curse somebody out.
That was your choice, that wasyour bad, that was your thing to
make amends for.
It's really interesting.
It's ultimately actually a wayto liberate yourself entirely
(14:48):
from the kind of cause andeffect that says, well, because
this person does this to me, orthis happens to me in life, I'm
going to do this Right and itultimately is supposed to.
You know, if you practice itcorrectly, then you have
complete freedom over choice andbehavior.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Well, also, it's so easy to use that as
justification.
Well, of course, I did thisbecause you did this.
I have one of my dearestfriends is also in recovery, and
so I've.
I've heard for years, I'velearned so so much from her.
It's just wonderful, and thewhole keeping your side of the
street clean, yes, that's it.
Keep your side of the streetclean.
How are you contributing tothis?
(15:22):
Are you contributing to thenoise and the anger and the
ferociousness of the moment ifwe're speaking of road rage, or
are you thinking maybe they'rein a hurry, maybe someone's in
labor, maybe that's what I tryto do?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, I try, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
And again, I mean, if you thinkabout it with respect to what
happens to Lucy Vale, and againit's very human.
I'm not impugning anything, butif you look at online, the
culture of you know the onlineculture, you know the question
are you contributing to thenoise and the rage is very
pertinent.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Well, all you have to do is look in a comment section
to see that, right, I mean,someone can post, good morning,
it's a beautiful day, and thensomeone else is like why would
you, why would you say that?
Exactly, exactly, it'shappening, yeah.
So first, first, having spentso many years in this space,
what are your feelings aboutwhere the industry's going?
(16:19):
What's surprising to you?
What are some assumptions thatpeople may make about your
experience or your bank account?
These are things that I love to, and I'm not asking you what's
in your bank account.
And the thing that'sinteresting about it, too, is,
many times people will befull-time writers and they will
not disclose not here.
People are so transparent.
(16:41):
I love it, but they won'tdisclose that their partner is
the bread winner.
I'm not asking you how you'reable to do it, but I love to
hear from people kind of what'ssomething that a lot of people
think is true, that isn't true,or the reverse.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
There's a couple of things that I would say I've
observed.
So one is that in order to be avery successful commercial
writer, people have to know whatkind of book they're going to
get from you, and so you have tokind of write the same kind of
books I'm not disparaging that,you know, it's just a thing and
those are the most successfulkind of branded commercial
authors.
I did not do that at all in theearly part of my career, and so
(17:21):
I had books that were wildlysuccessful and books that were
wildly failures.
Right, because there wasnothing for people to kind of
follow me.
Oh, I know I'm going to getthis kind of a Lord Oliver book,
is this kind of book?
So that's just something toknow, and it's also something to
kind of, in a way, accept.
It's like you can either acceptoh, I'm going to write whatever
I want, but that means that myreaders may not follow me to
(17:43):
every book and I'm going to haveperiods where I'm not selling
very many books, you know, oryou can say you know what I'm
going to be.
This is important to me, thisis also a business for me, so
let me be very thoughtful abouthow I brand myself and the kind
of books I write.
And then I also think that,yeah, there's, I used to think
when I was younger that successkind of worked like a climb, a
(18:05):
hike up a mountain, like youjust went on a straight, you
know, you just fought your wayup the steep slope.
And I mean my career has beenway more like a roller coaster
and also more like alabyrinthine walk through the
forest, and it has taken me toreally unexpected places.
It's like you know, I mean andit's all, and basically it's
(18:28):
fine.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's all fine, it's allfine, yeah, it's all fine.
I have basically made my livingas a novelist, although I mean
again, I haven't, although notfor really monetary reasons.
In other words, I've done otherkinds of writing, I've done
book packaging, I've even donecreative technology stuff, but
that's all just because that'sthe kind of person I am.
(18:50):
I always say I can't break myheart in the same industry every
day.
I need to break my heart littleways and have a diversified
breaking of my heart.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Diversified, I am so adopting this because, right,
Sometimes I think there's this.
I also like to do differentthings and they're not even
related all the time, yeah.
I know I love it Right and it's, and so I'm going to start,
instead of looking at it likeI'm having a problem paying
(19:22):
attention and staying committed.
It's like I just I don't know,does that make us masochists?
I mean, you know, I thinkyou're a little bit to be an
artist in general, we'd be DrOrna for that.
Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah,yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I actually think that oneof the ways you explained that
was really lovely sort of thelabyrinth, but thinking of it
(19:43):
not in terms of oh my God, Ican't get out, but in terms of
around every corner there couldbe I mean, there could be a
monster.
But there also could be areally fun unexpected connection
or experience or idea.
Yeah absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, are you someone whowould get?
See?
(20:03):
I would get bored writing thesame.
Some people don't, and that'sgreat.
That's why I never say there'sa right or a wrong, but I would
get bored if I were.
I think if I were writing theexact same style.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, I mean we'll see, because, again, my I'm
slowly.
I'm right now I'm in a mysteryera, now a mystery and
psychological thriller era, andnow that happens.
I mean that's always been acategory that I actually loved,
loved, loved to read.
We'll see.
I mean, it's an era that's sofar lessened for two books or
maybe three, so I might getbored.
(20:37):
I think that there is a way inwhich, you know, I get inspired
by something and I want to, andit could be.
I'm very, very curious.
I love history, I love weirdfacts, I love weird theories,
and all of those things suggestbooks to me in different
(20:57):
categories.
So you know, yeah, if it wereup to me, I'd probably
experiment with writing a bookin every single category that
ever existed, okay, but thereare some genres, we'll see that
I do think like, oh, there'smultiple things that I can do
here in this space and that Iwant to do.
Great point.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Because even within just taking the thriller
category as an example, you cansplit off and say well, I want
to do multiple POV in this one,and then in this one I want to
go historical, but the main coregenre is the same.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So you can bring your readers along yeah.
Right.
If they hate the 1800s thenthat might yeah Right, I mean,
and even like a category likethat or a category like mystery.
I mean, mystery has there's somany subcategories inside of
something you know Likecontemporary, it's like romance.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
There's so many subcategories.
There used to be sort of therule where and also before
online, you know Amazon and etcetera started creating their
own categories.
We were really restricted.
I mean, if we use the BISACcategories, we don't have nearly
the creativity that we can havewhen it in terms of
categorizing something that wecan have when we're listing on,
(22:11):
say, amazon.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
And it can go really deep yeah, totally yeah, yeah.
So last question I typicallyask is what are you reading now
or what have you read recently?
You know okay.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Speaking of mysteries , I can give two very different
mysteries that I've readrecently and, by the way, you
can tell I'm like catching up onread, fiction reading, because
there was a period where I wasreading tons of nonfiction and
you can tell I'm catching up onit from like four years ago.
Okay, I read my first HarlanCoben book, which one, the Boy
in the Woods.
Oh, okay, yeah, which one'sgood?
(22:47):
Sorry, I mean not that that onewas bad, but so you know what's
funny?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
you would say which one's good.
I haven't read any of them,I've seen them, yeah.
So I mean it's okay, it was.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It's very pacey, which is, which is great, like a
very interesting.
I wasn't thrilled and then sothat's a mystery, but of a kind
of, you know, people get intobrawls and there's guns and
stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And then I was at Thursday Night Murder.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Club which one Thursday Night Murder Club, like
four years late.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yes, thank you for like making it okay to be late
on things because I am the.
I too went through a hugenonfiction phase and I was just
reading everything nonfiction, agood bit of memoir, but a ton
of nonfiction.
And only in the last, I'd say,year and a half two years have I
become reacquainted withfiction and fallen very much
(23:42):
back in love with it.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I know, yeah, it's been nice.
It was slow, I went through areal dry period and again I was
reading every day, but it wasall you know, stuff related to
recovery and spirituality andyou know the meaning of life,
kind of stuff.
Why are we here?
Picture answers those questions, can answer those questions in
different ways, right, sure, andon a much more emotional level.
(24:04):
But, yeah, no, I'm reallyloving Thursday Night Murder
Club, but I'm about four yearslate to where commercial fiction
is, so I will have a lot ofreading to catch up on.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, and I love actually that both fiction and
nonfiction, frankly, for themost part, but especially
fiction, can have such a longtail.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's justyou can find out about something
and then go, oh my God, thiscame out six years ago, I
haven't ever even heard of it,and fall in love with it.
And then you that's whathappened to me with Taylor
(24:33):
Jenkins read is I read, I really, cause I wasn't on the fiction
train so I didn't.
I had heard about Daisy Jonesin six and I, but I hadn't
picked any of it up.
I got seven husbands of EvelynHugo, loved it and now want to
read everything.
And her new one has just comeout to rave reviews and I've got
(24:53):
to get that one on my doorstep.
I mean, that's awesome.
I just I, if I could just spendall day.
I'm a fast reader, are you afast reader?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I mean it depends on what I'm reading, Okay.
But yeah, I'm a pretty fastreader.
But you know, again, classicbeing in my phase, I read before
bed and I go to sleep, Right.
So it's not about the fastreading, it's about now by how
long I can tolerate.
I mean, this summer has beennice because I've actually not
every day, but I've had somegood days where I can kind of
(25:24):
knock off from work early andjust sit outside on the porch
and and actually get an, a solidhour, two hours in a reading.
I can't remember the last timethat's happened.
That's been really nice.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Well, and that's what I meant by fast reader too and
I'm not a fast like, I'm not aspeed reader either, because I
enjoy really sinking into it,but I just don't typically have
hours in the day.
Yeah, of course I'd love to.
Yeah, I look forward to that.
Yeah, I look forward to that.
Yeah, it's just not there now.
It's not there yet.
It's not there yet, right,exactly.
(25:55):
Well thank you so much.
I'm so excited for this to beavailable to people, because I
can't wait to just keep going.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You've got me even more intrigued.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
It's so well done and it's just had me thinking so
much about not just the storyI'm reading, but like how did
you do this?
It's just really Thank you.
It's a kind of a masterpiece.
Thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Hopefully I kind of feel the same way.
It doesn't mean anybody willagree, or even read it, I agree.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Thank you, I agree, thank you, I agree, I think it's
and it's.
I think I can actually give itcredit for bringing me into a
like a thriller phase.
I will take the credit.
Yes, yes, I will.
I, that is what it is, becauseI just have never really thought
I was talking to somebody Idon't remember who, cause I
never remember I mean, I don'teven remember like what day I
(26:55):
think it's Monday, I'm not sureand I said I don't like
historical fiction.
And she said well, do you like?
And she gave me the title of abook I don't remember and I said
loved that.
She said that's historicalfiction.
Yeah, I don't know why, but Ithought historical fiction was
like Little House on the Prairie.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I'm like I'm over it.
Right, right, right, wait, areyou telling me you?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
don't like Little House on the Prairie.
Well, I mean, I did at one time, but not today, and so I
thought I'm not really athriller person.
Right, right, right, apparently, I'm a thriller person, at
least when you write them.
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Well, again, there's probably a million subcategories
, so you might be a thrillerperson if it features kind of a
weird haunted house, takes placein Indiana and also has like a
swim team.
Who knows, yeah, who knows well?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
and I've all you know .
There's probably other otherthrillers like that, right, yeah
, there's all that's going tobecome its own category.
Amazon Prime.
I do the monthly, you know, themonthly book pick or whatever,
and I've noticed myself latelypicking thrillers.
Oh that's cool, as opposed mytypical, which is like women's
(27:54):
fiction.
I love women's fiction, I loverom-com, I love anything funny,
especially when it involveswomen.
But yeah, I've noticed myselfpicking thrillers.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So thank you, Lauren, for that.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Like I said, I'll take the credit, happily, yep.
So thank you, thank you.
I'll put all your links in thebio or in.
Hi everybody and welcome back.
All right, I am so excitedtoday to be talking to Lauren
Oliver.
I have been reading this gemwhat Happened to Lucy Vale?
Which?
This doesn't come out, lauren,until September.
Right, okay, I'm going to needeveryone to get this on the
pre-order list.
Like, just get it in the cartsnow.
I have so many questions to askyou about this.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
This is your seventh novel yes, oh, my goodness.
No, it's like my fifth novel.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
It is.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, I've written a lot.
I guess I didn't include all ofthem in the previous titles
list.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Okay, well, somewhere I just want to be clear
somewhere it said seventh.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Okay, well, it's not.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
It's like my 20th, but you know, at a certain point
it's like who's counting?
Well, we all are in this spaceLike kids, right.
Once you reach a certain number, we all stop counting or I did
but books, they all count, okay.
So, of the six that are listedin the beginning of this book, I
have to say that the titles ofthem feel very on the nose right
now.
We have Broken Things, panic,right, the Delirium Trilogy and
(01:12):
then what Happened to Lucy Vale.
I feel like it could veryeasily be like what's Happened?
To just fill in the blank.
We could put all kinds ofthings.
Now that I know there are 20,I'm going to actually start with
a different question, but thisbook is kind of rocking me in a
very good way.
This is so complicated.
I need to know how you did this.
(01:34):
So, for people who don't know,it's multiple POV.
One of the POVs is we, so it'sa collective Right.
So it's a collective right, andthen the collective, if you
will, has these text ormessenger chats.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yes, okay yeah, just yes.
So should I say what the bookis about go for it.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
just don't give anything away, because I'm on
page, I don't know two something, so just don't know two
something, so just don't get mestarted.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, what happened to Lucy Vale is, very loosely
speaking, about twointerconnected mysteries that
are all linked to the same house, kind of what ends up becoming
a fabled, almost like hauntedhouse called the Faraday House
in a small Indiana town.
You know it has a lot of.
There are themes in whathappened to Lucy Vale.
First of all, about therepetition, cyclical violence,
(02:26):
things like that, but also aboutonline culture in general and
how we both become a kind ofhave become a kind of Greek
chorus that narrates therealities of other people's
lives and also end up then,unlike a Greek chorus, actually
influencing the action andpotentially playing a role that
(02:49):
we don't ourselves anticipate.
So the answer to your questionabout how I did it was yeah.
No, it was like an impossiblebook to write.
It took me five years.
It was awful.
My publishers were so mad andyou know I was working on it
continuously.
But with this book I reallyunderstood certain elements of
the character.
(03:09):
I knew the characters and Iknew that theme was one I wanted
to explore and I knew I wantedto tackle a wee perspective.
You know, the first book I everread from a wee perspective was
the Virgin Suicides.
Then there was a great book byJoshua Ferris called.
Then we Came to the End and Ijust those books really lit me
up and I'd always wanted totackle it and it seemed
(03:30):
appropriate for this theme.
But man, it's hard, it's sohard.
And the funny thing is is thatso I was writing and I would
draft and draft and then itwouldn't work and I would
realize that I was kind ofcheating with the perspective
and people knew things theyshouldn't know.
And wait, what do you mean?
You were cheating.
Well, you know, I would say,you know I would be writing from
(03:51):
the we perspective, but then Iwould suddenly kind of be
shifting into the third personperspective because I wanted to
follow a certain character andyou know, or I would.
Originally, the we perspectivewas an entire grade, right, but
then there were just craftchallenges of.
Were you talking abouteverybody in that grade all the
(04:11):
time?
Whenever you used we, how didyou denote subcategories?
And also, I was like, how wouldthey know?
I started to crave.
I was like what I really want,what would be really perfect, is
if there was an onlinetechnology like Twitter, but it
could be private and only for asingle group of people.
(04:32):
I, as soon as I went on Discord, which is like a private
Twitter where you can just havelittle communities and anybody
can make a Discord, I was like,oh my God, this is the
(04:52):
technology Now.
That said, it still took meyears to finish.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
But I'm not like you know.
So the names.
This part, I think, is so Idon't know if I say interesting
or fascinating one more time ina podcast Lauren, like I need a
new word, but so we've got highas a Kyle, like their names.
How fun was this?
I was like I thought this islike naming nail polish colors.
(05:17):
Yeah, rhythm, spin doctor,who's a cash.
He's like cash money, right, so, and the other thing that's
that's fun about this, but Ihave to do it slowly is that
much like on Discord or even ina text thread, the same person
will message, so they'll saythree things, but it's three,
(05:39):
right, one after the other asopposed to one.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Or on Discord, I would always find, you know,
because obviously I went onDiscord and I was involved and
actually I really liked Discord.
But or, even more confusingly,somebody will write, somebody
will write something totallyunrelated and then you know,
person C will respond to personA and person D will respond to
person B and it's just thisincredibly like fluid, chaotic,
(06:07):
very organic exchange andactually I mean, I think again
for this book, some books arereally linear.
The book I wrote after whatHappened to Lucy Vale, which
comes out, you know, not thisSeptember but next May, very
linear.
I picked it up.
I started writing page one, Iended at page.
You know, I picked it up.
I started writing page one, Iended at page.
You know, whatever it was, Iended at page one and it was
(06:29):
just like a clean shot.
You know, both in narrativestructure and process.
Lucy Vale was much more thistentacled thing that took me in
unexpected directions andrevealed things.
I mean much like one of thoseorganic, you know, conversations
that is featured, you know, oris represented by the discord
(06:51):
messages in the book.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yeah Well, and to keep it all, I'm curious.
Of course I'm always curiousabout first drafts.
Was this just what was it?
I don't, I don't want to putwords.
Was it quick, unwieldy?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Like yeah, I mean, I wouldn't even call what I did
for many years draft.
I think I did pieces.
I mean I did part one over inthe book 20 times.
You know, maybe part two wasfour, maybe I had totally
different part threes and had tochange them.
(07:26):
I really wrote it in.
It was very ungainly and veryunwieldy.
Okay yeah, I mean it just was areal challenge and also I mean
I did.
There was I mean even on a linelevel.
I really was really precious insome ways about it, which is
(07:46):
funny because you can'tnecessarily tell the things that
are hard for an author or not.
So it's not as though I meanthere are some great lines in
there, like one of my favoritelines I've ever written, which
is August was crawling on itshands and knees through a heat
wave.
I love that line.
Yes, yeah, like 40 minutes, youknow, or more, but you know, I
mean it's meant to be as complexas it is.
(08:09):
It's meant to be breathy andfun even in some places to read,
in many places, because it doesultimately become very heavy
and I tolerate that for a wholebook, and that's also not the
reality of how peoplecommunicate online, you know,
and how Exactly.
Yeah, so, but yeah, it was just.
It was a very messy process tocompose into a whole and I did
(08:34):
feel like this with this one.
Again, some books you feel thatyou're kind of stringing
together an arrow on a bow andletting it loose.
This one was like this weirdmessy symphony that I had to
compose into a whole.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Yeah, and I, I.
It's interesting because againthere's the word again when you
get to the end of it and itworks, which this does.
It just keeps me going and I'vegot, I've got very
compartmentalized, which I'msurprised by for me, frankly,
that I have such a wellcompartmentalized vision or view
of all the different charactersRachel and Lucy and Akash, and
(09:11):
even Nina, who is missing, Right, I mean, or or presumed dead,
so like, and then the who's, theswimmer, Tommy, Tommy Swift,
right.
So I have this and I mean it.
Either I have to imagine iteither works or it doesn't.
But I, and it does, but I haveto imagine it's extremely
(09:34):
tedious and tenuous to get it tothe point where it does work,
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And also agonizing in a waybecause, again, for me,
absolutely.
And also agonizing in a waybecause, again for me, with this
book, you know, again A, thishad been a craft challenge I'd
wanted to take on basically mywhole life.
And then B ultimately it doeskind of all come together in.
(10:03):
I mean, ultimately it is a verysad book.
I think it's a very true bookbut it's sad and there were
things I wanted to say that Idon't.
You know that I felt that therewere things that were important
for me to say in this book andso I really wanted it to work.
You know, I mean every book isdifferent and again, I mean I'm
(10:24):
always doing the best I can inany given moment.
But there are certainly booksI've written because I thought
the idea was cool or I justwanted to explore a world.
This was more of a book where Iactually wanted to leave people
with a thought or a feeling orabout something important, you
know.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So can you, without giving anything away, what were
some of the things that youreally wanted to speak to and
touch upon in this book and hadto kind of find a way into it?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, I mean I wanted to touch about on the fact that
you know, we kind of consumeand chew people up like gossip,
especially nowadays, and, likeyou know, like content, other
people become content, theircontent, and you know we are the
heroes of the story.
I also wanted that was a bigtheme.
So, content, and you know weare the heroes of the story, I
also wanted that was a big theme.
So, first of all, you know, oneof the themes was just that you
(11:19):
know you really can never trulyknow, you never know what's
actually going on.
And, again, consuming somethingand dissecting it for content
is not the same thing asconsidering it and really having
access to truth about it,considering it and really having
access to truth about it.
Another one was simply that youknow we should all be careful of
(11:44):
the role we play in otherpeople's stories.
In other words, in our storieswe're always heroes, but it
takes a lot of maturity andsophistication and so you know,
and the hero, almost anything isjustified from the hero, right?
I mean, just watch a Marvelmovie, you can kill as many
people as you want, you're stillthe hero, but you know we're
not the heroes in other people'sstories.
We play different roles, and Ithink it's important to think
about which ones those are, tothe best of our ability.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Which ones we, which roles we play in other people's
stories.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean to some extentcan't control it, but to others
you can right Like there's.
If you actually strip away thenarrative justification we give
to much of why we do what we doand you settle back into what is
the actual behavior what areliterally, what are we doing?
(12:33):
Right, it becomes much clearerand easier to to kind of to see
morally where we sit.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
It's making me think this is kind of give me another
word.
I beg of you, interesting, giveme another one, something
Thought provoking.
This is thank you so much.
Okay, fine, I'm getting out thethesaurus.
This is very thought-provokingthat I am a show that I am
borderline.
Are you pulling up a thesaurusright now?
I love you so much.
(13:04):
I need a list.
Can you just have them at theready, because it's gonna happen
again yeah, yeah, the show thatI'm borderline obsessed with is
couples therapy, which is sofunny because I'm not in a
couple, but I love watching theway that I don't think I ever
understood that, in addition tothere being a therapist, there
(13:26):
can be a behavior analyst, whichis my understanding of what
this doctor is.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Dr, Orna.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
That's what she does.
Is helps the individuals withinthese couples see what their
behavior is and where it comesfrom and why they do it, and so
it's a totally different lensfrom which, I think, to look at
behavior than just pointingfingers and saying whatever it
(13:54):
is.
We're saying like I fixed youor your things, or your fault or
my fault, whatever, exactlyComing from that hero
perspective.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Exactly.
Yeah, so these things are, youknow, those things are important
to me and you know this is alsoa basis of this is real.
I'm in recovery and have beenfor years, and this is the basis
of recovery work, which is thebelief that, like the only thing
you are in control of is yourown action and choices.
And so, for example, ifsomebody cuts you off rudely on
(14:26):
the highway and then you screamout F you, you are, you're not
responsible for the one personcutting you off.
That's on them, but what youare responsible for is the fact
that you curse somebody out.
That was your choice, that wasyour bad, that was your thing to
make amends for.
It's really interesting.
It's ultimately actually a wayto liberate yourself entirely
(14:48):
from the kind of cause andeffect that says, well, because
this person does this to me, orthis happens to me in life, I'm
going to do this Right and itultimately is supposed to.
You know, if you practice itcorrectly, then you have
complete freedom over choice andbehavior.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Well, also, it's so easy to use that as
justification.
Well, of course, I did thisbecause you did this.
I have one of my dearestfriends is also in recovery, and
so I've.
I've heard for years, I'velearned so so much from her.
It's just wonderful, and thewhole keeping your side of the
street clean, yes, that's it.
Keep your side of the streetclean.
How are you contributing tothis?
(15:22):
Are you contributing to thenoise and the anger and the
ferociousness of the moment ifwe're speaking of road rage, or
are you thinking maybe they'rein a hurry, maybe someone's in
labor, maybe that's what I tryto do?
Speaker 2 (15:43):
Yeah, I try, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.
And again, I mean, if you thinkabout it with respect to what
happens to Lucy Vale, and againit's very human.
I'm not impugning anything, butif you look at online, the
culture of you know the onlineculture, you know the question
are you contributing to thenoise and the rage is very
pertinent.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Well, all you have to do is look in a comment section
to see that, right, I mean,someone can post, good morning,
it's a beautiful day, and thensomeone else is like why would
you, why would you say that?
Exactly, exactly, it'shappening, yeah.
So first, first, having spentso many years in this space,
what are your feelings aboutwhere the industry's going?
(16:19):
What's surprising to you?
What are some assumptions thatpeople may make about your
experience or your bank account?
These are things that I love to, and I'm not asking you what's
in your bank account.
And the thing that'sinteresting about it, too, is,
many times people will befull-time writers and they will
not disclose not here.
People are so transparent.
(16:41):
I love it, but they won'tdisclose that their partner is
the bread winner.
I'm not asking you how you'reable to do it, but I love to
hear from people kind of what'ssomething that a lot of people
think is true, that isn't true,or the reverse.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
There's a couple of things that I would say I've
observed.
So one is that in order to be avery successful commercial
writer, people have to know whatkind of book they're going to
get from you, and so you have tokind of write the same kind of
books I'm not disparaging that,you know, it's just a thing and
those are the most successfulkind of branded commercial
authors.
I did not do that at all in theearly part of my career, and so
(17:21):
I had books that were wildlysuccessful and books that were
wildly failures.
Right, because there wasnothing for people to kind of
follow me.
Oh, I know I'm going to getthis kind of a Lord Oliver book,
is this kind of book?
So that's just something toknow, and it's also something to
kind of, in a way, accept.
It's like you can either acceptoh, I'm going to write whatever
I want, but that means that myreaders may not follow me to
(17:43):
every book and I'm going to haveperiods where I'm not selling
very many books, you know, oryou can say you know what I'm
going to be.
This is important to me, thisis also a business for me, so
let me be very thoughtful abouthow I brand myself and the kind
of books I write.
And then I also think that,yeah, there's, I used to think
when I was younger that successkind of worked like a climb, a
(18:05):
hike up a mountain, like youjust went on a straight, you
know, you just fought your wayup the steep slope.
And I mean my career has beenway more like a roller coaster
and also more like alabyrinthine walk through the
forest, and it has taken me toreally unexpected places.
It's like you know, I mean andit's all, and basically it's
(18:28):
fine.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's all fine, it's allfine, yeah, it's all fine.
I have basically made my livingas a novelist, although I mean
again, I haven't, although notfor really monetary reasons.
In other words, I've done otherkinds of writing, I've done
book packaging, I've even donecreative technology stuff, but
that's all just because that'sthe kind of person I am.
(18:50):
I always say I can't break myheart in the same industry every
day.
I need to break my heart littleways and have a diversified
breaking of my heart.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Diversified, I am so adopting this because, right,
Sometimes I think there's this.
I also like to do differentthings and they're not even
related all the time, yeah.
I know I love it Right and it's, and so I'm going to start,
instead of looking at it likeI'm having a problem paying
(19:22):
attention and staying committed.
It's like I just I don't know,does that make us masochists?
I mean, you know, I thinkyou're a little bit to be an
artist in general, we'd be DrOrna for that.
Yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah,yeah, exactly, exactly, yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I actually think that oneof the ways you explained that
was really lovely sort of thelabyrinth, but thinking of it
(19:43):
not in terms of oh my God, Ican't get out, but in terms of
around every corner there couldbe I mean, there could be a
monster.
But there also could be areally fun unexpected connection
or experience or idea.
Yeah absolutely, absolutely.
I mean, are you someone whowould get?
See?
(20:03):
I would get bored writing thesame.
Some people don't, and that'sgreat.
That's why I never say there'sa right or a wrong, but I would
get bored if I were.
I think if I were writing theexact same style.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Yeah, I mean we'll see, because, again, my I'm
slowly.
I'm right now I'm in a mysteryera, now a mystery and
psychological thriller era, andnow that happens.
I mean that's always been acategory that I actually loved,
loved, loved to read.
We'll see.
I mean, it's an era that's sofar lessened for two books or
maybe three, so I might getbored.
(20:37):
I think that there is a way inwhich, you know, I get inspired
by something and I want to, andit could be.
I'm very, very curious.
I love history, I love weirdfacts, I love weird theories,
and all of those things suggestbooks to me in different
(20:57):
categories.
So you know, yeah, if it wereup to me, I'd probably
experiment with writing a bookin every single category that
ever existed, okay, but thereare some genres, we'll see that
I do think like, oh, there'smultiple things that I can do
here in this space and that Iwant to do.
Great point.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Because even within just taking the thriller
category as an example, you cansplit off and say well, I want
to do multiple POV in this one,and then in this one I want to
go historical, but the main coregenre is the same.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So you can bring your readers along yeah.
Right.
If they hate the 1800s thenthat might yeah Right, I mean,
and even like a category likethat or a category like mystery.
I mean, mystery has there's somany subcategories inside of
something you know Likecontemporary, it's like romance.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
There's so many subcategories.
There used to be sort of therule where and also before
online, you know Amazon and etcetera started creating their
own categories.
We were really restricted.
I mean, if we use the BISACcategories, we don't have nearly
the creativity that we can havewhen it in terms of
categorizing something that wecan have when we're listing on,
(22:11):
say, amazon.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
And it can go really deep yeah, totally yeah, yeah.
So last question I typicallyask is what are you reading now
or what have you read recently?
You know okay.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Speaking of mysteries , I can give two very different
mysteries that I've readrecently and, by the way, you
can tell I'm like catching up onread, fiction reading, because
there was a period where I wasreading tons of nonfiction and
you can tell I'm catching up onit from like four years ago.
Okay, I read my first HarlanCoben book, which one, the Boy
in the Woods.
Oh, okay, yeah, which one'sgood?
(22:47):
Sorry, I mean not that that onewas bad, but so you know what's
funny?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
you would say which one's good.
I haven't read any of them,I've seen them, yeah.
So I mean it's okay, it was.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It's very pacey, which is, which is great, like a
very interesting.
I wasn't thrilled and then sothat's a mystery, but of a kind
of, you know, people get intobrawls and there's guns and
stuff.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And then I was at Thursday Night Murder.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Club which one Thursday Night Murder Club, like
four years late.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yes, thank you for like making it okay to be late
on things because I am the.
I too went through a hugenonfiction phase and I was just
reading everything nonfiction, agood bit of memoir, but a ton
of nonfiction.
And only in the last, I'd say,year and a half two years have I
become reacquainted withfiction and fallen very much
(23:42):
back in love with it.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I know, yeah, it's been nice.
It was slow, I went through areal dry period and again I was
reading every day, but it wasall you know, stuff related to
recovery and spirituality andyou know the meaning of life,
kind of stuff.
Why are we here?
Picture answers those questions, can answer those questions in
different ways, right, sure, andon a much more emotional level.
(24:04):
But, yeah, no, I'm reallyloving Thursday Night Murder
Club, but I'm about four yearslate to where commercial fiction
is, so I will have a lot ofreading to catch up on.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, and I love actually that both fiction and
nonfiction, frankly, for themost part, but especially
fiction, can have such a longtail.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's justyou can find out about something
and then go, oh my God, thiscame out six years ago, I
haven't ever even heard of it,and fall in love with it.
And then you that's whathappened to me with Taylor
(24:33):
Jenkins read is I read, I really, cause I wasn't on the fiction
train so I didn't.
I had heard about Daisy Jonesin six and I, but I hadn't
picked any of it up.
I got seven husbands of EvelynHugo, loved it and now want to
read everything.
And her new one has just comeout to rave reviews and I've got
(24:53):
to get that one on my doorstep.
I mean, that's awesome.
I just I, if I could just spendall day.
I'm a fast reader, are you afast reader?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
I mean it depends on what I'm reading, Okay.
But yeah, I'm a pretty fastreader.
But you know, again, classicbeing in my phase, I read before
bed and I go to sleep, Right.
So it's not about the fastreading, it's about now by how
long I can tolerate.
I mean, this summer has beennice because I've actually not
every day, but I've had somegood days where I can kind of
(25:24):
knock off from work early andjust sit outside on the porch
and and actually get an, a solidhour, two hours in a reading.
I can't remember the last timethat's happened.
That's been really nice.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Well, and that's what I meant by fast reader too and
I'm not a fast like, I'm not aspeed reader either, because I
enjoy really sinking into it,but I just don't typically have
hours in the day.
Yeah, of course I'd love to.
Yeah, I look forward to that.
Yeah, I look forward to that.
Yeah, it's just not there now.
It's not there yet.
It's not there yet, right,exactly.
(25:55):
Well thank you so much.
I'm so excited for this to beavailable to people, because I
can't wait to just keep going.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
You've got me even more intrigued.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
It's so well done and it's just had me thinking so
much about not just the storyI'm reading, but like how did
you do this?
It's just really Thank you.
It's a kind of a masterpiece.
Thank you, You're welcome.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Hopefully I kind of feel the same way.
It doesn't mean anybody willagree, or even read it, I agree.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Thank you, I agree, thank you, I agree, I think it's
and it's.
I think I can actually give itcredit for bringing me into a
like a thriller phase.
I will take the credit.
Yes, yes, I will.
I, that is what it is, becauseI just have never really thought
I was talking to somebody Idon't remember who, cause I
never remember I mean, I don'teven remember like what day I
(26:55):
think it's Monday, I'm not sureand I said I don't like
historical fiction.
And she said well, do you like?
And she gave me the title of abook I don't remember and I said
loved that.
She said that's historicalfiction.
Yeah, I don't know why, but Ithought historical fiction was
like Little House on the Prairie.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I'm like I'm over it.
Right, right, right, wait, areyou telling me you?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
don't like Little House on the Prairie.
Well, I mean, I did at one time, but not today, and so I
thought I'm not really athriller person.
Right, right, right, apparently, I'm a thriller person, at
least when you write them.
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Well, again, there's probably a million subcategories
, so you might be a thrillerperson if it features kind of a
weird haunted house, takes placein Indiana and also has like a
swim team.
Who knows, yeah, who knows well?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
and I've all you know .
There's probably other otherthrillers like that, right, yeah
, there's all that's going tobecome its own category.
Amazon Prime.
I do the monthly, you know, themonthly book pick or whatever,
and I've noticed myself latelypicking thrillers.
Oh that's cool, as opposed mytypical, which is like women's
(27:54):
fiction.
I love women's fiction, I loverom-com, I love anything funny,
especially when it involveswomen.
But yeah, I've noticed myselfpicking thrillers.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
So thank you, Lauren, for that.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Like I said, I'll take the credit, happily, yep.
So thank you, thank you.
I'll put all your links in thebio or in.
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