September 10, 2025 • 45 mins
A Challenge to Listeners!
We're going to spend two hours or less drafting something new. We want you to do it too! Send us your fast writing at Contact@writeyourheartoutpod.com with the subject line: Two Hour Story and we'll read it on the next storytime episode! That means you, David. These are the prompts (via Writer Threads) that can inspire your new work:
Enemies to Lovers:
1. Bold of you to assume that I'd care.
2. You're hurt? Why are you always hurt?
3. Get behind me.
Angry Confession:
4. Trust me, I am also trying to understand how in the shit this happened.
5. Tell me how I'm supposed to unlove you, then. Tell me. Spare me.
6. "Since when did you ever care about me?"
"Since fucking forever you idiotic dunce."
Sickness or Injury:
7. Tell me where it hurts.
8. Can you carry me?
9. Why didn't you tell me it hurt so bad?
This week on Write Your Heart Out, Kayla and Rachel pick up where their AI debate left off—spiraling from apocalyptic predictions about tech to the timeless question: why do we write at all? From Steven Pressfield’s wisdom about creating art even on a deserted island to the very real resistance of reorganizing your medicine cabinet instead of writing, the conversation swings between hilarious tangents and raw honesty about staying creative when life gets messy.
The duo also dive into upcoming writing contests (Book Pipeline Unpublished, the John Steinbeck Award, Driftwood Press, and Writes of November’s two-sentence challenge) and challenge themselves—and listeners—to draft something new under a two-hour time limit for their next Storytime episode. Plus: murder-mystery birthday parties, navigating writer’s groups with your kid’s teacher, and the eternal sausage metaphor for publishing.
If you’ve ever felt bogged down, distracted, or just plain stuck in your writing life, this episode will leave you laughing, nodding, and maybe even pulling out your label maker before you get back to the page.
Please subscribe, rate and review!
New episodes every Wednesday.
E-mail us your short story at contact@writeyourheartoutpod.com
Follow us on instagram @writeyourheartoutpod
Leave us a message at 650-260-4885
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Write your heart out.
I'm Kayla Ogden.
And I'm Rachel Sear.
And this is Write Your HeartOut.
Haha, I left you
SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
hanging.
I can't do the double.
I can't do the double.
I mean, the double's reallyawkward.
Yeah, so last week we talkedabout, we had our AI debate.
Oh my god, the AI debate.
Which was hilarious.
And Rachel, you
SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
didn't even listen to it.
I didn't.
I'm a little scared of it.
I'm scared to even listen to ustalking about AI.
Oh my Oh my
SPEAKER_00 (00:40):
gosh, I'm scared of AI now.
(01:07):
He's been in this AI space fordecades.
And he's predicting that we'reall dead in like 10 years.
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
See?
See?
He told you so.
So that was really scary.
And I think after listening tothat and thinking about things
too much, I began feeling veryhopeless and like, what's even
the point and that kind ofthing.
One thing, though, that wasinteresting that he said was,
okay, so...
(01:37):
He says that 99% of jobs aregoing to be obsolete in terms of
humans doing them.
The jobs that humans are goingto be doing are things that you
just prefer to have a humandoing that thing.
So like maybe you want a sexworker and for some crazy reason
(01:59):
you want them to have, you know,blood pumping through their
veins.
Why would you want that?
Or you...
No.
No.
(02:37):
it's about that is it's just itjust cannot be what it's about
what writing is about that'skind of what I came to I was
like oh remember when also I'vebeen listening to Steven
Pressfield again to kind of getpumped up and one of the things
that he says which we bothreally like when we reviewed his
book in the beginning of thedays of the podcast we really
(02:58):
liked when he said if you werestranded on a deserted island
all by yourself and you know youhad the tools to do your thing
would you still do it rightwould you still do this thing
that you're passionate aboutyour art your territory your
answer was yes in terms ofbaking and my answer was yes in
terms of writing and I almostfeel like I'm getting to that's
where I am I almost feel like itliterally may not matter at all
(03:23):
maybe that was always the casebut I still want to do it
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
yeah well good let's not talk more about AI yeah yeah
yeah no we don't need to talkabout I don't think I'm 100%
there to be honest with writingwe're like if I only had that
left that would still be my onlything to bring me joy.
Yeah.
So Rachel, why do you write?
Oh, I think it's just fun.
It's just fun.
So
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
you enjoy coming up with the stories and characters
and being in that world?
SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
Yeah.
I mean, I've always been a veryimaginative person.
I'll be like sitting at arestaurant and then someone will
be coming down like a flight ofstairs with a tray and I'll like
imagine them falling and thetray going everywhere and like
the whole scene that wouldunfold, not in like a sadistic
way.
Okay.
But like in a storytelling, inmy imagination way, and I am
(04:11):
known to just start laughing atthe story that I've created in
my head about what could haveunfolded as all of this happens.
And will people be like, what,Rachel?
And you're like, oh.
(04:36):
Obviously, with Dinner forEight, it snowballs really
quickly into like somethingbigger.
And that's just how it's alwaysbeen for me.
Right.
I don't feel like it's not yetanyway.
Maybe it will become more ofthat.
But I don't feel like it's thisitch that has to be scratched or
else I'll never be satisfied.
But
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
is any of it about having other people enjoy it or
it affect other people or havingfeedback from other people or
anything like that?
Or is it strictly you're doingit because you enjoy the
creation aspect?
aspect of it?
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
Good question.
I think it's mostly the latter.
When I think about peoplereading Dinner for Eight, I'm
just going to keep using that asan example.
And that's exciting and it's funand I really hope people would
enjoy it.
But there was no part of me thatwas like, ooh, I'm going to add
this because I think people willlike to read.
There was not even an inkling ofthat
SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
in my brain.
That's great.
Steven Pressfield would lovethat.
Oh, good.
SPEAKER_01 (05:31):
Me and Stevie.
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
Yeah.
Because he says that being ahack is somebody who is thinking
of about the audience'sreception and is writing to
market.
Sure.
So for me, I just really am in aplace where I want to let, I've
learned so much about thepublishing world, marketing
agents, all of this stuff overthe last five years.
And I just want to let all ofthat fucking go.
(05:55):
Sure.
Because I need to be in likecreation mode.
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:59):
And there may not be a market by the time I'm done
writing this book.
That's Although, I mean, none ofus know what's truly going to
happen.
Right.
What am I trying to say?
I'm trying to say I just need tonot think about the product.
How the sausage is made.
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
oh.
Right?
Like, you learn too much abouthow the sausage is made, like
the whole back end of how itworks, and it's like, ugh.
Oh, that's so gross.
That's the grossest turn ofphrase.
It's the grossest turn ofphrase, and it's true.
Like, okay, I want to thinkabout this delicious beef frank.
I don't want to think about theintestine that it's getting
stuffed into.
(06:40):
So I'm the cow in this
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
situation?
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
No, you're just a lovely little lass who wants to
eat a delicious beef frank.
Okay, I'm eating it.
I thought I was baking it.
Exactly.
So you just want to eat it.
And then you don't want to thinkabout all the bullshit that has
to be on the back end to getthat to your plate.
(07:05):
You could do it the other way.
You just want to make a sausage.
You want to make a great qualitysausage.
And then you learn, like, oh, Ihave to buy extra fat to put
into this.
I have to buy intestines to
SPEAKER_00 (07:16):
stuff it into.
No one will eat it.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Yeah, my chef brain is coming on.
The amount of things that gointo it.
The preservatives.
Yeah, the preservatives.
All of it.
And then you have to figure outhow to market it.
And then you have to figure outwho wants to buy it.
That's bullshit.
I fill out
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
all the forms and get all the permits and all of
that stuff.
It's like, I just want to Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
(08:06):
no matter where that may be.
And I think that this time, Ithink if I do it this way, the
end product is going to be moretimely and original and I'll
feel a lot better about it thanmy last project.
Yeah, so both of us have notbeen writing.
SPEAKER_01 (08:24):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (08:25):
We've been bogged.
Life has been
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
life.
SPEAKER_00 (08:27):
I've been bogged the fuck down with back to school
and getting my kids in all ofthese activities and just a
million things.
I've just been too busy But nowI see time this week, actually,
and this very week that I canwrite again.
SPEAKER_01 (08:43):
Yeah.
I'm feeling like I see thelight.
I was feeling way too boggeddown also, just like too many
things happening.
And now the kids are both inschool till three.
I just have a few more chores Ineed to get done around the
house to be able to get all ofthose things out of my head.
I feel like tomorrow's my day.
Okay.
Tomorrow's my day.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
Yes.
I think that has to be.
If tomorrow's not your day...
then I'm going to go ahead andcall it and say that all those
chores are, have becomeresistance.
I know I was just going to sayresistance, resistance.
I mean, me too.
Like I opened up my, I have thiscupboard full of medicine, you
know, all the things that youneed medically for yourself and
your family and your kids and incase of an emergency.
(09:26):
Sure.
But mine, it looked like a boxfull of garbage.
Like it just is complete.
There's no rhyme or reason toanything.
And then the medicines and thesupplements and things that we
take all ended up on thecounter, like really gross.
Sounds familiar.
I had the most amazing,productive Wellbutrin day where
(09:46):
I took all the shit out ofthere.
I organized it.
I had Alka-Seltzer tablets inthere from Mexico from 2016.
Wow.
You needed to save those.
I don't even know what I wasdoing there.
Obviously, I had tummy
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
problems.
Clearly, things were not workingout well.
Some Montezuma's revenge was
SPEAKER_00 (10:06):
Picking up.
A lot of expired stuff.
Oh, and then I went and boughtlike a label maker.
Oh, I love a label maker.
I learned how to actually usethis Heimlich Maneuver pump
thing.
Oh yeah, I have one of those.
You do?
Do you know how to use it?
Yeah, the LifeVac thing.
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
I watched a video.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
We bought it like three years ago.
We don't, we don't never just,we just put it in there with all
the rest of the shit.
So by the end of the day, itjust looks so gorgeous in there.
But the rest of the house needsall that kind of treatment too.
And, but I'm, I, that, that Thatis resistance.
Like I could spend weeks doingthat and I would be really
happy, but that's not the work.
(10:43):
Like that's not my territory.
That's not writing.
That's not my passion.
Like I just need to set thataside.
That can get done whenever, butI feel like writing needs to
happen now.
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
Yeah.
And like, that's a never endingthing.
You know, when it's the placewhere you live, it's a never
ending project.
So it's, I can't wait to sitdown and like get, now I feel
like I don't even know my bookanymore.
Like I can't wait to like pickit back up and get back into it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
So on that note, last night,Rachel and I said, we need
something to work on to kind ofget ourselves kind of
kickstarted again in ourwriting.
And one of the things that wewant to do is look up some more
contests that we could enter.
So I found two.
Did you find any?
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
I found a couple.
I was all minor on Instagram, soI can give the handles of the
people who are having thesecontests.
SPEAKER_00 (11:31):
I wonder if you might be interested in this one
too.
It has a really excitingdeadline.
So it's September 25th.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
Coming
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
up.
So that is fucking soon.
Okay, what are they looking for?
So this is called the BookPipeline Unpublished Contest.
Like I said, deadline September25th, 2025.
I totally want to encourage ourlisteners to enter these
contests with us.
If you win, we win.
We would love to hear about somewinners.
(11:59):
Totally.
But this is like, I think prettymuch any genre, fantasy,
fiction, mystery, non Wow.
Wow, wow, wow.
Wow, wow, wow.
(12:36):
winner on November 10th.
SPEAKER_01 (12:37):
Yeah, that's soon, which is really nice.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
It's so nice to have a good turnaround like that.
It is.
They've been receiving entriesfor like six months or something
like that.
I imagine they've been readingthem as they come in.
And then mine is going to comein on September 25th, along with
whoever else's.
Maybe mine.
Yeah.
And then they're going to usethat month to probably read the
(13:01):
people that came in really late.
But what I was thinking is Ihave this manuscript, right,
that I wrote it.
I sent it out to 10 agents.
I had my beta readers, myfriends read it.
I had some good feedback aboutmy writing.
People said that it was greatwriting, that they really liked
the concept, all this stuff.
But nobody really was sopassionate about this book that
(13:22):
they wanted to champion it forme.
With that being said, a lot ofwriters have to send their work
out to a lot more agents thanthat.
But I think through thisprocess, I was like, I don't
know, I kind of want to work onsomething else.
This was my first book.
I learned a lot doing it and Ithink I can do a lot better.
But since I have it, maybe whatI'll do is I'll spend the next
(13:44):
two weeks reworking it, thinkingabout how I could make it
better.
Sure.
One of the ways that I think Icould make it better is for a
long time, I listened to thatbook by E.B.
White, The Elements of Style.
And this is like aquintessential writing book that
a it is so good and soinformative and it basically
(14:08):
tells you to make everythingsuper super concise it's one of
those the kind of advice thatwill tell you never to say
rachel exclaimed or rachelshouted or rachel cried out it's
you always just have to sayrachel said said rachel said
rachel like that
SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
wow
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
and like that you don't use any adjectives ever
like you just keep everythingsuper sparse and it's like that
right and then also i've beenlistening to their this podcast
that I've been listening to fora long time called The Essential
Guide to Writing a Novel byJames Thayer and it's really
nice to listen to like I likethis guy he's like this old guy
in Seattle and he has a lot oflike old very like like ideas
(14:50):
about writing he's always sayingthat the character's inner
monologue is the most boringpart of the book and that you
like their thoughts and feelingsthat people just that's just so
boring and what people reallywant is action and so you should
minimize talking, getting insideyour character's head and
talking about their thoughts andfeelings as much as possible.
SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
Do you think that some, sorry, I'm just going to
say something a littleinflammatory.
Don't you think that's just likea man's perspective?
I feel like we read the weddingpeople in our book group and
that was like all in her head.
Like, I feel like this guy,James?
James Thayer.
I mean, no offense to menlistening.
In my experience, most of themen in my life don't like to be
(15:32):
in their heads.
In their own heads?
Yeah.
Like, I don't think they want tobe in anyone else's head
necessarily.
They aren't as comfortable inother people's heads as women
are.
And I think that that's a majorthing for this guy to say when I
don't think that's true at all.
SPEAKER_00 (15:50):
I think that it's a bunch of old writing advice from
back in the day when men werethe ones giving all the writing
advice.
And also men were writing more,men were reading more, men were
more like a part of literary Ofcourse, yeah.
(16:35):
Okay.
Okay.
(17:05):
There's pages and pages, thickparagraphs, just of this woman
thinking about her endometriosisand how her roommate is
experiencing her illness and howshe feels about it and if she
wants to tell her lover aboutit.
And it's just her ruminating onher disease, her feminine
(17:29):
disease.
And people love it.
And if she can do that, I can atleast Yeah, absolutely.
(18:05):
Sure.
(18:35):
I did need to know some of therules, and I think that they've
helped my writing for clarity.
I think a lot of the rules havehelped a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (18:46):
Well, I mean, we've talked before about the rules
that I didn't necessarily know,like the perspective thing.
If you're writing from firstperson, the other person, you
don't get to know what the otherperson's feeling.
And those types of rules,totally.
I mean, I fully agree.
There's some basics thateveryone needs
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
to know.
Yes.
Things like how Yeah.
(19:35):
Sure, sure, sure.
(20:05):
But now I'm at the point where Ifeel like I've learned enough
that I can start choosing whatto actually incorporate and what
to just throw out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's my first contest.
Would you be interested at allin sending in your book?
Maybe.
I mean, I
SPEAKER_01 (20:23):
need to get through the first editing process first,
for sure.
But I do kind of like the ideaof giving myself the goal of
September 25th.
Well, you're so fast.
I am pretty fast.
I do want somebody to have readthe full book, though, before
then, which seems a littledemanding.
You know, like, that's like, I'mgoing to edit all this, you have
(20:44):
two days to read it, and then Ineed, you know, like, because I
feel like somebody else's eyesshould have been on it.
But by all definition, isn'tthat what a manuscript is?
Something that's, like, tuckedaway that nobody else has read
yet?
Unpublished writing.
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
Yeah, a manuscript is the full book, but it goes
through a lot of So it's still amanuscript once people have read
SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
execs.
So if you've got an agent, theywould probably do edits with
you.
Then if an editor acquired itthrough your agent, then the
editor would do edits with you.
But what people say these daysis that you really want your
book to be as close topublishing as you could make it.
You yourself should think it'sthere.
(21:56):
It could go out on the shelftoday.
It won't be.
You're going to have editsthrough all these other things.
So then the next award that Ihave, this one is also a really
close deadline, and I'm hopingthat I can do both.
So this is the John SteinbeckAward, and I'm such a big
Steinbeck fan.
He's from Salinas, which is notfar from here where we live.
(22:19):
And so the deadline is October1st.
They say, we're awarding one ofthe richest purses among
literary magazines,$1,000 forthe winning story.
So this isn't a wholemanuscript.
This is just a story.
And the John Steinbeck Awardrecognizes exceptional works of
fiction.
Aesthetically, we are open tomost styles and approaches,
(22:39):
including experimental andliterary.
All works should be standaloneshort stories, not chapters of a
longer work.
Please limit submissions to5,000 words.
Okay, I could commit to thatone.
I think this sounds like, so I'mtrying to see if they publish
you anywhere.
There is a journal, so I imaginethey would, oh, submissions not
(23:00):
selected for final judging maystill be considered for
publication in the journal andor on So I think it gets
published in their journal,which is called Read, R-E-E-D
magazine.
You would hear back by the endof December.
That's so long.
But it's still quicker than thenovelry, isn't it?
Well, the novelry is going to beturning its shit around like at
(23:22):
the end of this month.
Is it?
Yeah.
Was it?
Okay.
Well, that's pretty sure.
So I think I'm going to try todo both of these.
Okay.
Before you talk about yourcontest, I just want to mention
that thing about the writersgroup.
Oh, yes.
Uh-huh.
Okay, so my son's teacher,Daveed, Rachel told me, girl,
just ask Daveed about thewriting group again.
(23:43):
So he mentioned it to me once.
Then I brought it up to himagain.
And then I was like, I'm justdone.
I'm done talking to him aboutthis.
But then Rachel was like, no,just bug him.
Just see where this writinggroup is.
He did.
He ended up emailing me aboutit, sending me their email.
It's at a place called BooksInc.
in Menlo Park.
(24:05):
And it looks like there's 30people or something on their
mailing list.
I told David, okay, I think I'mgoing to go.
I'm going to see if my friendRachel will go with me.
And then Rachel said no.
Well, not no.
The date just didn't work.
So what Rachel's going to do isgo plan her birthday party
instead of come to the writersgroup.
(24:25):
So I think that's resistance.
SPEAKER_01 (24:27):
No! I've been planning this party for over
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
a year.
And so you have to do it on thisday too?
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
Well...
This is the time that works forthe people who are the people at
the restaurant.
It's like on their time.
Come
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
on.
So Rachel's birthday.
So she wrote this book thatwe've been talking about, Dinner
for Eight.
And in Dinner for Eight, theyare having like a murder mystery
dinner.
And Rachel in real life ishaving a murder mystery dinner.
So on Thursday, when I go tothis writing group by myself,
Rachel's going to be
SPEAKER_02 (25:01):
over
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
at the restaurant.
Like talking to the actors andstuff?
Oh, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
Talking to the restaurant.
I have to pick the entire menu.
This is a sit-down dinner for 80people.
There are 80 people?
So I have to pick the menu withthe chef, and we have to talk
about how tables will be placed,and do I need to make table
cards for place settings andwhatever.
It's all the logistics for theparty.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
It's a big deal, Kayla.
It's a big deal.
Oh, my God.
How do you have 80 friends?
I don't know.
UNKNOWN (25:34):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (25:34):
What?
I don't have that many, I don'tthink.
SPEAKER_01 (25:38):
You know, it gets big fast.
It gets big fast.
I'm not even inviting all thepeople I want to, but the
restaurant capped me.
Whoa.
Rachel's popular.
Yeah.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_00 (25:50):
I'm just going to say that if I had stayed in my
hometown where I grew up, Iwould be popular too.
Although I was weird there.
I kind of needed to get out ofthere and start fresh.
I was weird here.
I'm lucky that people have
SPEAKER_01 (26:03):
forgiven me.
I mean, you know the schoolpeople plus all their husbands
right and then all of our groupof friends and all of their
husbands and then all of myfamily my cousins are flying in
from New York and Omaha likeit's it's amazing so I gotta do
this meeting come on okay
SPEAKER_00 (26:21):
I'm
SPEAKER_01 (26:21):
not
SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
ditching you for no reason okay so Rachel gets a
pass thanks I'm gonna go withactually my son's teacher David
oh good he's gonna go and he isgreat I really really like him I
don't know how much of myself Ican be around him because he's a
(26:43):
teacher and I don't know howmuch of himself he can be around
me I'm a really messy bitch andI say a lot of weird stuff so I
guess I have to be on my bestbehavior well
SPEAKER_01 (26:56):
no yes I mean no like don't say something super
offensive but other than thatjust be yourself people be
yourself Oh, you know what?
Being cool.
Being cool means
SPEAKER_00 (27:08):
like just fucking live your life, man.
Do you remember when somebodythat we knew went to your kid's
teacher and told your kid'steacher that you and another mom
were really wild on the weekendsand you got into all sorts of
trouble and that the teacher hadno idea how wild you and your
(27:31):
other friend was?
Yes, yes.
And you were like reallyembarrassed.
No, no, it was our
SPEAKER_01 (27:37):
other friend who was
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
embarrassed.
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
The lens?
The lens.
There we go.
Only one of the lenses wasactually in the glasses.
Oh, my God.
But I was so, like, frazzledwith the little kids that I
didn't even realize.
And I was, like, talking to theteachers and, like, acting a
fool.
And then they were, like, and Iwas, like, oh, my God, it's just
been such a morning and mysunglasses.
And I, like, poked myself in theeye because I was referencing my
(28:27):
sunglasses like a total freak.
They already knew I was nuts,man.
It wasn't me.
I wasn't the one worried aboutit.
I do remember that conversation,but I think it was the other mom
who was like, why are theytalking about us?
And I was just like, whatevs.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
Also, our friend Michelle, who we talked about
before, she's a teacher.
And I kind of asked her, youknow, some of my kids' teachers,
I think they're cool.
And I think we vibe and wouldmaybe want to be friends or
something.
I was like, is that a thing?
Did you ever become friends withthe parents?
And she said, no, not at all.
Sure, sure.
(29:34):
Part of me just wants to clearthe air.
And this is, I think part of myweird onus that makes me weird.
Like most people would just beable to sit in the uncertainty
and go play by play and be like,okay, like what's the vibe now?
How do I act?
What's appropriate?
Like, let me test the waters ona little, a little dirty joke.
Oh, that didn't hit.
(29:55):
All right.
We're not doing that.
Like, but me, I'm going toactually probably go to feed.
Is this weird?
I, I, don't know how to actaround you because you're my
kid's teacher.
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:09):
And just see what he says.
I
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
mean, that's a great way to just like break that ice.
Yeah.
And I mean, you're going to awriter's group.
It's not like, you know, again,it's not like you're going to a
bar like you just said.
It's all good.
SPEAKER_00 (30:22):
Maybe it won't even like come up.
I mean, if I were going to thewriter's group, if I were going
to the writer's group with youafterward, I would be like,
let's go get a glass of wine.
Right.
And I want to do that withDaveed.
No?
Oh, well, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know how to be an adultwoman in the world.
And I'm 38 years old.
I don't know if it's ever goingto happen.
(30:42):
I'm still a baby.
What I wanted to say about thatis, so on Thursday, I'm going to
that.
And David said, okay, bring somewriting.
And I was like, okay, bye.
And he's like, bye.
And I'm like, what do you meanbring some writing?
Like, read it out to the people.
Yeah, you got to workshop it.
(31:03):
That's the point of
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
a writer's group.
isn't it no already yeah well Imean what's the point of a
writers group if you're notgoing to workshop it
SPEAKER_00 (31:11):
oh yeah exactly I
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
know
SPEAKER_00 (31:12):
it
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
was a legit question I mean just because you want to
hear other people's work likeit's not AA where like only one
person shares no right is
SPEAKER_00 (31:25):
it
SPEAKER_01 (31:25):
I've never been to a writers group actually like this
is a legit question more
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
than anything yeah because you wanted to go to the
creative writing group at yourschool but then you didn't go
back this semester.
I'm not there this semester.
And you decided not to crash itand steal the shine away from
the actual students.
SPEAKER_01 (31:42):
Yeah, I just don't want to steal any of their
precious time because they'reactually students at this time.
SPEAKER_00 (31:46):
I liked the visual of you saying, I don't want to
be this lady rocking up andthey're like, hey, look at my
story.
Because also, you said they'reall so young.
They are.
They're
SPEAKER_01 (32:00):
young.
Some
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
random lady off the street.
SPEAKER_01 (32:04):
Oh, Okay, but I do believe the Creative Writing
Club at CSM, they workshop.
It's everyone takes a turn toread some like a page of their
whatever they're working on tolike workshop that piece and
people give feedback.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
So this will be great because so I didn't really
have anything that I would wantto bring.
But with this John Steinbeckaward, I don't want to send in
anything that I've alreadywritten.
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Totally.
It's a good one.
SPEAKER_00 (32:29):
I want to make a new one and I want to make it with
this new attitude of shirkingoff all the rules because they
said that they take experimentaland stuff so like I could be as
whack as I want I can follow themule sorry the muse and maybe
the muse is
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
sitting on a mule
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
I have time so I have a couple days I have today
tomorrow and Thursday before thewriters group so I'll get
something together for that andthen I'll workshop it with them
and I'll let you guys know howit went I mean even if you
SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
just have like a small outline of what you're
thinking to submit on the firstlike I feel like that's great
thing to workshop all by itselflike that's bringing something
to the table I think
SPEAKER_00 (33:08):
yes yeah okay okay so I'll report back you guys
about how my first writers groupwent with my kids teacher to
beat and without any support ohfrom Rachel
SPEAKER_01 (33:19):
well I'll be thinking of you okay um when is
the next one is they meet once amonth I think so okay well I
would love to go to the next oneso okay we'll see we won't we
will we will see okay so I haveone I kept popping up um
driftwood press um and it's apoem and short story contest and
(33:40):
they're seeking submissions forthey're saying a very like low
competition writing contest
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
um i don't mean low competition
SPEAKER_01 (33:49):
i'm not quite sure what that means but it's their
least competitive one is what idon't know that i don't know
their writing contest comes witha cash prize of 400 for first
place in fiction and 300 infirst place for poetry And then
there is a link in their bio forguidelines and details.
And they are Driftwood Press onInstagram.
(34:13):
Okay, so the short story contestwith Driftwood Press.
Submissions will be open fromSeptember 1st through January
15th.
So there's a bit more of awindow.
They will be declining andaccepting submissions as they
read them.
So you don't have to waitnecessarily to hear, which I
think is great.
And then...
(34:34):
All submissions will be acceptedinitially and then be given
runner-up status if they didlike it.
And then in April or May,someone will be awarded.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Whoa, that's so far away, everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
It is far away.
Whatever.
The award that you get is the$400, five copies of the issue
in which the story appears, andthen they'll interview you, and
your interview will be publishedalongside your story.
Very cool.
And then runner-ups will beoffered publications an
accompanying interview to$100USD and one copy of the issue in
(35:10):
which their work appears.
SPEAKER_00 (35:12):
So I think what's really good about this one is
that you get published.
So that's like a feather in yourcap.
Totally.
So I think what I'm going to dois I'm going to do a little more
research into Driftwood Pressand see what they've published
before, before I send.
And if it's something likesomething I've already written,
then I'll just send somethingthat I've already written.
SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
Okay.
So the guidelines,$1,000 to$5,000 soft word limit, so it
sounds like they're a littleflexible on that.
They do take simultaneoussubmissions.
You have to submit anonymously.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (35:43):
yeah, they do this thing with a lot of the contests
where they don't want you to putyour name anywhere on the file,
which I think is cool becauseyou don't really know what your
biases are going to be.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
Yeah, agreed.
Okay, so Driftwood Press, put alink to that when we post this
episode.
Okay, and then the next one wasRites of November is this woman
who I really like her vibe sheis like super funny and we
follow her on Instagram she islooking through like trying to
(36:13):
do her own contest and I haven'tseen her stuff before so I'm not
100% sure what I'm getting intoso I'll have to do a little bit
more research but she's doing atwo sentence writing contest and
I thought that was kind of funtwo sentences because they have
to hit hard you know$300 Andthen she does social media shout
(36:37):
outs to over 200,000 readers.
And then your sentences, you getinterviewed and then featured on
her website.
It's good for you, girl.
And then, so she wants you tosubmit two consecutive sentences
from your work in progress towin these prizes.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (36:52):
from your work in progress.
Yeah.
So it doesn't, it's not likeflash fiction where it's
supposed to tell a story.
It's just like.
Oh, sure.
Yes.
Two cool
SPEAKER_01 (37:00):
sentences.
Cool.
I'm not, I didn't say thatcorrectly.
Thank you.
Thank you for clarifying.
SPEAKER_00 (37:05):
Oh, her name is November.
That is such a nice name.
SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
Isn't she so cute?
She's adorable.
Okay.
So that's her writing contest.
And then you do have to dosomething on her Instagram.
Like you comment this SS2025, soSS2025, to enter the
sweepstakes.
I'm not 100% on the sweepstakes.
I think it sounds really fun andcool.
(37:28):
And I like that idea.
And I might throw in somesentences from Dinner for Eight
for that.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (37:35):
I'm going to throw in some sentences
SPEAKER_01 (37:45):
from something.
flash thing to share in a storytime.
(38:06):
Oh, right.
Yeah, I feel like why not?
I think that we should.
We've been saying that we'regoing to do a story time for at
least four episodes now.
I'm pretty sure.
So I think that we should doone.
I'm going to reach out to MJ andmake sure she's okay with us
reading the Elon poem becausewe've talked about that a few
times.
(38:27):
Yes.
Because I think that would
SPEAKER_00 (38:29):
be fun to share on a story time.
My friend Scott Gibson sent me apoem.
Great.
It wasn't done.
SPEAKER_02 (38:34):
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (38:38):
okay.
(39:03):
Sure, as kids do.
(39:33):
lovable asshole and like that hekind of wanted to like be like
that so Scott and I started tokind of debate about that about
his poem but if he does sharehis poem then that would be
great because he's such a goodlike Scott is such a good writer
and he just he doesn't do itenough I think a lot of us like
(39:54):
a lot of the people I came ofage with we were all poets and
writers and spoken word artistsand musicians and stuff you know
when we were teenagers and inour early 20s but then we all
kind of like grew up and in our30s it's like a lot of us don't
do that thing anymore sure I'mreally glad that I've had this
like resurgence of my creativityand passion like later in life
(40:15):
and I want to encourage anybodyout there who was who was like
that who was a creative personin their youth but let that all
fall aside yeah to like pick itup again you're still you you're
still that same person insideand you still have those things
to express
SPEAKER_01 (40:31):
yeah submit something to us let's hear it
yeah let's hear it cool so thosewere all of your oh are we
reading these prompts okay wellthere's it's a lot of prompts so
I'll choose just three randomlyfrom each little list because it
had like a few differentsubjects okay and then what if
we just do a little challengefor the story time episode to
(40:54):
not don't write for more thantwo hours on just this prompt
SPEAKER_00 (40:58):
oh damn okay
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
like a like a time limit oh okay and if it's
finished it's finished if it'snot it's not but we share what
we got okay yeah that soundsgood okay so um so here's the
first one is enemies to loversis the theme and you use or are
inspired by the quote bold ofyou to assume that i'd care uh
(41:20):
and then another one is uhyou're hurt why are you always
hurt oh and then another one isget behind me whoa so that's the
enemies to lovers ones.
Angry confession prompts.
Trust me, I'm also trying tounderstand how in the shit this
happened.
Okay, that's a funny one.
(41:42):
I've never, I haven't read thesethrough.
Whose are these?
I don't know.
Oh, I'm sorry.
It's from an account calledWriter Threads.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
Writer Threads.
SPEAKER_01 (41:51):
Okay.
Tell me how I'm supposed tounlove you then.
Tell me.
Spare me.
SPEAKER_00 (41:57):
That's interesting because usually if you say spare
me, you're kind of like tellingsomebody to like spare me the
details I don't want to hearwhat you're saying right yeah
but this is like so this is adifferent spin on spare me it's
sort of like spare me the painof having to try to figure out
how to unlove you on my own orsomething
SPEAKER_01 (42:18):
yeah I get
SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
it
SPEAKER_01 (42:20):
okay okay here's the last one for this one okay since
when did you ever care about mesince and then it's another
person answering in this promptsince fucking forever you
idiotic dunce so that's that oneAnd then one more, the sickness
or injury prompts.
Okay, there are those two ofthose.
Okay.
One quote is, just tell me whereit hurts.
(42:43):
Aww.
Another one is, can you carryme?
SPEAKER_00 (42:45):
You're making me want to
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
cry.
I know.
And then, why didn't you tell meit hurt so bad?
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
my God, this is
SPEAKER_01 (42:54):
making me so sad.
I know, these are sad ones.
Okay, so those are the promptsto choose from.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (43:01):
my God.
So if
SPEAKER_01 (43:02):
you're listening right now and you've feel
inspired by one of those promptsand you want to do the two-hour
limit and write something to us,you can submit anonymously on
our website.
We do not require a name.
SPEAKER_00 (43:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:13):
So please submit it.
SPEAKER_00 (43:15):
Or you can get all the credit that you want.
We'll tell people about yourInstagram or whatever you want.
Whatever you want, baby.
SPEAKER_01 (43:22):
Even you, Dad.
I
SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
know you're listening.
Even you, David.
Yeah, maybe David will sendsomething.
That would be so exciting.
If you do, do it anonymously,
SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
Dad.
SPEAKER_00 (43:33):
Oh, my God.
Really?
What?
I don't know.
I'm
SPEAKER_01 (43:35):
scared.
Oh, you're
SPEAKER_00 (43:36):
scared what he's going
SPEAKER_01 (43:37):
to say?
No, I'm sure.
He's actually a really goodwriter, so it would be fun.
Okay.
Okay.
Anyway.
Okay.
We have our little two-hourlimit prompt for the next
Storytime episode.
Okay.
Yeah.
And then we're going to berecording again in the next few
days.
Are we having it?
Is that going to be Storytime?
Yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (43:57):
I'll do a recap on how the writers group thing was.
Great.
Perfect.
And then we'll do Storytime.
SPEAKER_01 (44:02):
Fantastic.
I love that.
Alrighty.
Thank you guys for listening.
Thank you.
Bye.
Write your heart out.
I'm Kayla Ogden.
And I'm Rachel Sear.
And this is Write Your HeartOut.
Haha, I left you
SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
hanging.
I can't do the double.
I can't do the double.
I mean, the double's reallyawkward.
Yeah, so last week we talkedabout, we had our AI debate.
Oh my god, the AI debate.
Which was hilarious.
And Rachel, you
SPEAKER_01 (00:29):
didn't even listen to it.
I didn't.
I'm a little scared of it.
I'm scared to even listen to ustalking about AI.
Oh my Oh my
SPEAKER_00 (00:40):
gosh, I'm scared of AI now.
(01:07):
He's been in this AI space fordecades.
And he's predicting that we'reall dead in like 10 years.
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
See?
See?
He told you so.
So that was really scary.
And I think after listening tothat and thinking about things
too much, I began feeling veryhopeless and like, what's even
the point and that kind ofthing.
One thing, though, that wasinteresting that he said was,
okay, so...
(01:37):
He says that 99% of jobs aregoing to be obsolete in terms of
humans doing them.
The jobs that humans are goingto be doing are things that you
just prefer to have a humandoing that thing.
So like maybe you want a sexworker and for some crazy reason
(01:59):
you want them to have, you know,blood pumping through their
veins.
Why would you want that?
Or you...
No.
No.
(02:37):
it's about that is it's just itjust cannot be what it's about
what writing is about that'skind of what I came to I was
like oh remember when also I'vebeen listening to Steven
Pressfield again to kind of getpumped up and one of the things
that he says which we bothreally like when we reviewed his
book in the beginning of thedays of the podcast we really
(02:58):
liked when he said if you werestranded on a deserted island
all by yourself and you know youhad the tools to do your thing
would you still do it rightwould you still do this thing
that you're passionate aboutyour art your territory your
answer was yes in terms ofbaking and my answer was yes in
terms of writing and I almostfeel like I'm getting to that's
where I am I almost feel like itliterally may not matter at all
(03:23):
maybe that was always the casebut I still want to do it
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
yeah well good let's not talk more about AI yeah yeah
yeah no we don't need to talkabout I don't think I'm 100%
there to be honest with writingwe're like if I only had that
left that would still be my onlything to bring me joy.
Yeah.
So Rachel, why do you write?
Oh, I think it's just fun.
It's just fun.
So
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
you enjoy coming up with the stories and characters
and being in that world?
SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
Yeah.
I mean, I've always been a veryimaginative person.
I'll be like sitting at arestaurant and then someone will
be coming down like a flight ofstairs with a tray and I'll like
imagine them falling and thetray going everywhere and like
the whole scene that wouldunfold, not in like a sadistic
way.
Okay.
But like in a storytelling, inmy imagination way, and I am
(04:11):
known to just start laughing atthe story that I've created in
my head about what could haveunfolded as all of this happens.
And will people be like, what,Rachel?
And you're like, oh.
(04:36):
Obviously, with Dinner forEight, it snowballs really
quickly into like somethingbigger.
And that's just how it's alwaysbeen for me.
Right.
I don't feel like it's not yetanyway.
Maybe it will become more ofthat.
But I don't feel like it's thisitch that has to be scratched or
else I'll never be satisfied.
But
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
is any of it about having other people enjoy it or
it affect other people or havingfeedback from other people or
anything like that?
Or is it strictly you're doingit because you enjoy the
creation aspect?
aspect of it?
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
Good question.
I think it's mostly the latter.
When I think about peoplereading Dinner for Eight, I'm
just going to keep using that asan example.
And that's exciting and it's funand I really hope people would
enjoy it.
But there was no part of me thatwas like, ooh, I'm going to add
this because I think people willlike to read.
There was not even an inkling ofthat
SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
in my brain.
That's great.
Steven Pressfield would lovethat.
Oh, good.
SPEAKER_01 (05:31):
Me and Stevie.
SPEAKER_00 (05:32):
Yeah.
Because he says that being ahack is somebody who is thinking
of about the audience'sreception and is writing to
market.
Sure.
So for me, I just really am in aplace where I want to let, I've
learned so much about thepublishing world, marketing
agents, all of this stuff overthe last five years.
And I just want to let all ofthat fucking go.
(05:55):
Sure.
Because I need to be in likecreation mode.
SPEAKER_01 (05:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:59):
And there may not be a market by the time I'm done
writing this book.
That's Although, I mean, none ofus know what's truly going to
happen.
Right.
What am I trying to say?
I'm trying to say I just need tonot think about the product.
How the sausage is made.
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (06:20):
oh.
Right?
Like, you learn too much abouthow the sausage is made, like
the whole back end of how itworks, and it's like, ugh.
Oh, that's so gross.
That's the grossest turn ofphrase.
It's the grossest turn ofphrase, and it's true.
Like, okay, I want to thinkabout this delicious beef frank.
I don't want to think about theintestine that it's getting
stuffed into.
(06:40):
So I'm the cow in this
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
situation?
SPEAKER_01 (06:44):
No, you're just a lovely little lass who wants to
eat a delicious beef frank.
Okay, I'm eating it.
I thought I was baking it.
Exactly.
So you just want to eat it.
And then you don't want to thinkabout all the bullshit that has
to be on the back end to getthat to your plate.
(07:05):
You could do it the other way.
You just want to make a sausage.
You want to make a great qualitysausage.
And then you learn, like, oh, Ihave to buy extra fat to put
into this.
I have to buy intestines to
SPEAKER_00 (07:16):
stuff it into.
No one will eat it.
SPEAKER_01 (07:19):
Yeah, my chef brain is coming on.
The amount of things that gointo it.
The preservatives.
Yeah, the preservatives.
All of it.
And then you have to figure outhow to market it.
And then you have to figure outwho wants to buy it.
That's bullshit.
I fill out
SPEAKER_00 (07:32):
all the forms and get all the permits and all of
that stuff.
It's like, I just want to Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
(08:06):
no matter where that may be.
And I think that this time, Ithink if I do it this way, the
end product is going to be moretimely and original and I'll
feel a lot better about it thanmy last project.
Yeah, so both of us have notbeen writing.
SPEAKER_01 (08:24):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (08:25):
We've been bogged.
Life has been
SPEAKER_01 (08:26):
life.
SPEAKER_00 (08:27):
I've been bogged the fuck down with back to school
and getting my kids in all ofthese activities and just a
million things.
I've just been too busy But nowI see time this week, actually,
and this very week that I canwrite again.
SPEAKER_01 (08:43):
Yeah.
I'm feeling like I see thelight.
I was feeling way too boggeddown also, just like too many
things happening.
And now the kids are both inschool till three.
I just have a few more chores Ineed to get done around the
house to be able to get all ofthose things out of my head.
I feel like tomorrow's my day.
Okay.
Tomorrow's my day.
SPEAKER_00 (09:03):
Yes.
I think that has to be.
If tomorrow's not your day...
then I'm going to go ahead andcall it and say that all those
chores are, have becomeresistance.
I know I was just going to sayresistance, resistance.
I mean, me too.
Like I opened up my, I have thiscupboard full of medicine, you
know, all the things that youneed medically for yourself and
your family and your kids and incase of an emergency.
(09:26):
Sure.
But mine, it looked like a boxfull of garbage.
Like it just is complete.
There's no rhyme or reason toanything.
And then the medicines and thesupplements and things that we
take all ended up on thecounter, like really gross.
Sounds familiar.
I had the most amazing,productive Wellbutrin day where
(09:46):
I took all the shit out ofthere.
I organized it.
I had Alka-Seltzer tablets inthere from Mexico from 2016.
Wow.
You needed to save those.
I don't even know what I wasdoing there.
Obviously, I had tummy
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
problems.
Clearly, things were not workingout well.
Some Montezuma's revenge was
SPEAKER_00 (10:06):
Picking up.
A lot of expired stuff.
Oh, and then I went and boughtlike a label maker.
Oh, I love a label maker.
I learned how to actually usethis Heimlich Maneuver pump
thing.
Oh yeah, I have one of those.
You do?
Do you know how to use it?
Yeah, the LifeVac thing.
SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
I watched a video.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (10:22):
We bought it like three years ago.
We don't, we don't never just,we just put it in there with all
the rest of the shit.
So by the end of the day, itjust looks so gorgeous in there.
But the rest of the house needsall that kind of treatment too.
And, but I'm, I, that, that Thatis resistance.
Like I could spend weeks doingthat and I would be really
happy, but that's not the work.
(10:43):
Like that's not my territory.
That's not writing.
That's not my passion.
Like I just need to set thataside.
That can get done whenever, butI feel like writing needs to
happen now.
SPEAKER_01 (10:52):
Yeah.
And like, that's a never endingthing.
You know, when it's the placewhere you live, it's a never
ending project.
So it's, I can't wait to sitdown and like get, now I feel
like I don't even know my bookanymore.
Like I can't wait to like pickit back up and get back into it.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
So on that note, last night,Rachel and I said, we need
something to work on to kind ofget ourselves kind of
kickstarted again in ourwriting.
And one of the things that wewant to do is look up some more
contests that we could enter.
So I found two.
Did you find any?
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
I found a couple.
I was all minor on Instagram, soI can give the handles of the
people who are having thesecontests.
SPEAKER_00 (11:31):
I wonder if you might be interested in this one
too.
It has a really excitingdeadline.
So it's September 25th.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
Coming
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
up.
So that is fucking soon.
Okay, what are they looking for?
So this is called the BookPipeline Unpublished Contest.
Like I said, deadline September25th, 2025.
I totally want to encourage ourlisteners to enter these
contests with us.
If you win, we win.
We would love to hear about somewinners.
(11:59):
Totally.
But this is like, I think prettymuch any genre, fantasy,
fiction, mystery, non Wow.
Wow, wow, wow.
Wow, wow, wow.
(12:36):
winner on November 10th.
SPEAKER_01 (12:37):
Yeah, that's soon, which is really nice.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
It's so nice to have a good turnaround like that.
It is.
They've been receiving entriesfor like six months or something
like that.
I imagine they've been readingthem as they come in.
And then mine is going to comein on September 25th, along with
whoever else's.
Maybe mine.
Yeah.
And then they're going to usethat month to probably read the
(13:01):
people that came in really late.
But what I was thinking is Ihave this manuscript, right,
that I wrote it.
I sent it out to 10 agents.
I had my beta readers, myfriends read it.
I had some good feedback aboutmy writing.
People said that it was greatwriting, that they really liked
the concept, all this stuff.
But nobody really was sopassionate about this book that
(13:22):
they wanted to champion it forme.
With that being said, a lot ofwriters have to send their work
out to a lot more agents thanthat.
But I think through thisprocess, I was like, I don't
know, I kind of want to work onsomething else.
This was my first book.
I learned a lot doing it and Ithink I can do a lot better.
But since I have it, maybe whatI'll do is I'll spend the next
(13:44):
two weeks reworking it, thinkingabout how I could make it
better.
Sure.
One of the ways that I think Icould make it better is for a
long time, I listened to thatbook by E.B.
White, The Elements of Style.
And this is like aquintessential writing book that
a it is so good and soinformative and it basically
(14:08):
tells you to make everythingsuper super concise it's one of
those the kind of advice thatwill tell you never to say
rachel exclaimed or rachelshouted or rachel cried out it's
you always just have to sayrachel said said rachel said
rachel like that
SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
wow
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
and like that you don't use any adjectives ever
like you just keep everythingsuper sparse and it's like that
right and then also i've beenlistening to their this podcast
that I've been listening to fora long time called The Essential
Guide to Writing a Novel byJames Thayer and it's really
nice to listen to like I likethis guy he's like this old guy
in Seattle and he has a lot oflike old very like like ideas
(14:50):
about writing he's always sayingthat the character's inner
monologue is the most boringpart of the book and that you
like their thoughts and feelingsthat people just that's just so
boring and what people reallywant is action and so you should
minimize talking, getting insideyour character's head and
talking about their thoughts andfeelings as much as possible.
SPEAKER_01 (15:11):
Do you think that some, sorry, I'm just going to
say something a littleinflammatory.
Don't you think that's just likea man's perspective?
I feel like we read the weddingpeople in our book group and
that was like all in her head.
Like, I feel like this guy,James?
James Thayer.
I mean, no offense to menlistening.
In my experience, most of themen in my life don't like to be
(15:32):
in their heads.
In their own heads?
Yeah.
Like, I don't think they want tobe in anyone else's head
necessarily.
They aren't as comfortable inother people's heads as women
are.
And I think that that's a majorthing for this guy to say when I
don't think that's true at all.
SPEAKER_00 (15:50):
I think that it's a bunch of old writing advice from
back in the day when men werethe ones giving all the writing
advice.
And also men were writing more,men were reading more, men were
more like a part of literary Ofcourse, yeah.
(16:35):
Okay.
Okay.
(17:05):
There's pages and pages, thickparagraphs, just of this woman
thinking about her endometriosisand how her roommate is
experiencing her illness and howshe feels about it and if she
wants to tell her lover aboutit.
And it's just her ruminating onher disease, her feminine
(17:29):
disease.
And people love it.
And if she can do that, I can atleast Yeah, absolutely.
(18:05):
Sure.
(18:35):
I did need to know some of therules, and I think that they've
helped my writing for clarity.
I think a lot of the rules havehelped a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (18:46):
Well, I mean, we've talked before about the rules
that I didn't necessarily know,like the perspective thing.
If you're writing from firstperson, the other person, you
don't get to know what the otherperson's feeling.
And those types of rules,totally.
I mean, I fully agree.
There's some basics thateveryone needs
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
to know.
Yes.
Things like how Yeah.
(19:35):
Sure, sure, sure.
(20:05):
But now I'm at the point where Ifeel like I've learned enough
that I can start choosing whatto actually incorporate and what
to just throw out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's my first contest.
Would you be interested at allin sending in your book?
Maybe.
I mean, I
SPEAKER_01 (20:23):
need to get through the first editing process first,
for sure.
But I do kind of like the ideaof giving myself the goal of
September 25th.
Well, you're so fast.
I am pretty fast.
I do want somebody to have readthe full book, though, before
then, which seems a littledemanding.
You know, like, that's like, I'mgoing to edit all this, you have
(20:44):
two days to read it, and then Ineed, you know, like, because I
feel like somebody else's eyesshould have been on it.
But by all definition, isn'tthat what a manuscript is?
Something that's, like, tuckedaway that nobody else has read
yet?
Unpublished writing.
SPEAKER_00 (21:00):
Yeah, a manuscript is the full book, but it goes
through a lot of So it's still amanuscript once people have read
SPEAKER_01 (21:27):
it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:35):
execs.
So if you've got an agent, theywould probably do edits with
you.
Then if an editor acquired itthrough your agent, then the
editor would do edits with you.
But what people say these daysis that you really want your
book to be as close topublishing as you could make it.
You yourself should think it'sthere.
(21:56):
It could go out on the shelftoday.
It won't be.
You're going to have editsthrough all these other things.
So then the next award that Ihave, this one is also a really
close deadline, and I'm hopingthat I can do both.
So this is the John SteinbeckAward, and I'm such a big
Steinbeck fan.
He's from Salinas, which is notfar from here where we live.
(22:19):
And so the deadline is October1st.
They say, we're awarding one ofthe richest purses among
literary magazines,$1,000 forthe winning story.
So this isn't a wholemanuscript.
This is just a story.
And the John Steinbeck Awardrecognizes exceptional works of
fiction.
Aesthetically, we are open tomost styles and approaches,
(22:39):
including experimental andliterary.
All works should be standaloneshort stories, not chapters of a
longer work.
Please limit submissions to5,000 words.
Okay, I could commit to thatone.
I think this sounds like, so I'mtrying to see if they publish
you anywhere.
There is a journal, so I imaginethey would, oh, submissions not
(23:00):
selected for final judging maystill be considered for
publication in the journal andor on So I think it gets
published in their journal,which is called Read, R-E-E-D
magazine.
You would hear back by the endof December.
That's so long.
But it's still quicker than thenovelry, isn't it?
Well, the novelry is going to beturning its shit around like at
(23:22):
the end of this month.
Is it?
Yeah.
Was it?
Okay.
Well, that's pretty sure.
So I think I'm going to try todo both of these.
Okay.
Before you talk about yourcontest, I just want to mention
that thing about the writersgroup.
Oh, yes.
Uh-huh.
Okay, so my son's teacher,Daveed, Rachel told me, girl,
just ask Daveed about thewriting group again.
(23:43):
So he mentioned it to me once.
Then I brought it up to himagain.
And then I was like, I'm justdone.
I'm done talking to him aboutthis.
But then Rachel was like, no,just bug him.
Just see where this writinggroup is.
He did.
He ended up emailing me aboutit, sending me their email.
It's at a place called BooksInc.
in Menlo Park.
(24:05):
And it looks like there's 30people or something on their
mailing list.
I told David, okay, I think I'mgoing to go.
I'm going to see if my friendRachel will go with me.
And then Rachel said no.
Well, not no.
The date just didn't work.
So what Rachel's going to do isgo plan her birthday party
instead of come to the writersgroup.
(24:25):
So I think that's resistance.
SPEAKER_01 (24:27):
No! I've been planning this party for over
SPEAKER_00 (24:31):
a year.
And so you have to do it on thisday too?
SPEAKER_01 (24:34):
Well...
This is the time that works forthe people who are the people at
the restaurant.
It's like on their time.
Come
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
on.
So Rachel's birthday.
So she wrote this book thatwe've been talking about, Dinner
for Eight.
And in Dinner for Eight, theyare having like a murder mystery
dinner.
And Rachel in real life ishaving a murder mystery dinner.
So on Thursday, when I go tothis writing group by myself,
Rachel's going to be
SPEAKER_02 (25:01):
over
SPEAKER_00 (25:04):
at the restaurant.
Like talking to the actors andstuff?
Oh, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
Talking to the restaurant.
I have to pick the entire menu.
This is a sit-down dinner for 80people.
There are 80 people?
So I have to pick the menu withthe chef, and we have to talk
about how tables will be placed,and do I need to make table
cards for place settings andwhatever.
It's all the logistics for theparty.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
It's a big deal, Kayla.
It's a big deal.
Oh, my God.
How do you have 80 friends?
I don't know.
UNKNOWN (25:34):
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (25:34):
What?
I don't have that many, I don'tthink.
SPEAKER_01 (25:38):
You know, it gets big fast.
It gets big fast.
I'm not even inviting all thepeople I want to, but the
restaurant capped me.
Whoa.
Rachel's popular.
Yeah.
Thanks.
SPEAKER_00 (25:50):
I'm just going to say that if I had stayed in my
hometown where I grew up, Iwould be popular too.
Although I was weird there.
I kind of needed to get out ofthere and start fresh.
I was weird here.
I'm lucky that people have
SPEAKER_01 (26:03):
forgiven me.
I mean, you know the schoolpeople plus all their husbands
right and then all of our groupof friends and all of their
husbands and then all of myfamily my cousins are flying in
from New York and Omaha likeit's it's amazing so I gotta do
this meeting come on okay
SPEAKER_00 (26:21):
I'm
SPEAKER_01 (26:21):
not
SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
ditching you for no reason okay so Rachel gets a
pass thanks I'm gonna go withactually my son's teacher David
oh good he's gonna go and he isgreat I really really like him I
don't know how much of myself Ican be around him because he's a
(26:43):
teacher and I don't know howmuch of himself he can be around
me I'm a really messy bitch andI say a lot of weird stuff so I
guess I have to be on my bestbehavior well
SPEAKER_01 (26:56):
no yes I mean no like don't say something super
offensive but other than thatjust be yourself people be
yourself Oh, you know what?
Being cool.
Being cool means
SPEAKER_00 (27:08):
like just fucking live your life, man.
Do you remember when somebodythat we knew went to your kid's
teacher and told your kid'steacher that you and another mom
were really wild on the weekendsand you got into all sorts of
trouble and that the teacher hadno idea how wild you and your
(27:31):
other friend was?
Yes, yes.
And you were like reallyembarrassed.
No, no, it was our
SPEAKER_01 (27:37):
other friend who was
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
embarrassed.
SPEAKER_01 (28:04):
The lens?
The lens.
There we go.
Only one of the lenses wasactually in the glasses.
Oh, my God.
But I was so, like, frazzledwith the little kids that I
didn't even realize.
And I was, like, talking to theteachers and, like, acting a
fool.
And then they were, like, and Iwas, like, oh, my God, it's just
been such a morning and mysunglasses.
And I, like, poked myself in theeye because I was referencing my
(28:27):
sunglasses like a total freak.
They already knew I was nuts,man.
It wasn't me.
I wasn't the one worried aboutit.
I do remember that conversation,but I think it was the other mom
who was like, why are theytalking about us?
And I was just like, whatevs.
SPEAKER_00 (28:45):
Also, our friend Michelle, who we talked about
before, she's a teacher.
And I kind of asked her, youknow, some of my kids' teachers,
I think they're cool.
And I think we vibe and wouldmaybe want to be friends or
something.
I was like, is that a thing?
Did you ever become friends withthe parents?
And she said, no, not at all.
Sure, sure.
(29:34):
Part of me just wants to clearthe air.
And this is, I think part of myweird onus that makes me weird.
Like most people would just beable to sit in the uncertainty
and go play by play and be like,okay, like what's the vibe now?
How do I act?
What's appropriate?
Like, let me test the waters ona little, a little dirty joke.
Oh, that didn't hit.
(29:55):
All right.
We're not doing that.
Like, but me, I'm going toactually probably go to feed.
Is this weird?
I, I, don't know how to actaround you because you're my
kid's teacher.
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:09):
And just see what he says.
I
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
mean, that's a great way to just like break that ice.
Yeah.
And I mean, you're going to awriter's group.
It's not like, you know, again,it's not like you're going to a
bar like you just said.
It's all good.
SPEAKER_00 (30:22):
Maybe it won't even like come up.
I mean, if I were going to thewriter's group, if I were going
to the writer's group with youafterward, I would be like,
let's go get a glass of wine.
Right.
And I want to do that withDaveed.
No?
Oh, well, I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
I don't know how to be an adultwoman in the world.
And I'm 38 years old.
I don't know if it's ever goingto happen.
(30:42):
I'm still a baby.
What I wanted to say about thatis, so on Thursday, I'm going to
that.
And David said, okay, bring somewriting.
And I was like, okay, bye.
And he's like, bye.
And I'm like, what do you meanbring some writing?
Like, read it out to the people.
Yeah, you got to workshop it.
(31:03):
That's the point of
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
a writer's group.
isn't it no already yeah well Imean what's the point of a
writers group if you're notgoing to workshop it
SPEAKER_00 (31:11):
oh yeah exactly I
SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
know
SPEAKER_00 (31:12):
it
SPEAKER_01 (31:15):
was a legit question I mean just because you want to
hear other people's work likeit's not AA where like only one
person shares no right is
SPEAKER_00 (31:25):
it
SPEAKER_01 (31:25):
I've never been to a writers group actually like this
is a legit question more
SPEAKER_00 (31:29):
than anything yeah because you wanted to go to the
creative writing group at yourschool but then you didn't go
back this semester.
I'm not there this semester.
And you decided not to crash itand steal the shine away from
the actual students.
SPEAKER_01 (31:42):
Yeah, I just don't want to steal any of their
precious time because they'reactually students at this time.
SPEAKER_00 (31:46):
I liked the visual of you saying, I don't want to
be this lady rocking up andthey're like, hey, look at my
story.
Because also, you said they'reall so young.
They are.
They're
SPEAKER_01 (32:00):
young.
Some
SPEAKER_00 (32:02):
random lady off the street.
SPEAKER_01 (32:04):
Oh, Okay, but I do believe the Creative Writing
Club at CSM, they workshop.
It's everyone takes a turn toread some like a page of their
whatever they're working on tolike workshop that piece and
people give feedback.
SPEAKER_00 (32:16):
So this will be great because so I didn't really
have anything that I would wantto bring.
But with this John Steinbeckaward, I don't want to send in
anything that I've alreadywritten.
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Totally.
It's a good one.
SPEAKER_00 (32:29):
I want to make a new one and I want to make it with
this new attitude of shirkingoff all the rules because they
said that they take experimentaland stuff so like I could be as
whack as I want I can follow themule sorry the muse and maybe
the muse is
SPEAKER_01 (32:47):
sitting on a mule
SPEAKER_00 (32:48):
I have time so I have a couple days I have today
tomorrow and Thursday before thewriters group so I'll get
something together for that andthen I'll workshop it with them
and I'll let you guys know howit went I mean even if you
SPEAKER_01 (32:59):
just have like a small outline of what you're
thinking to submit on the firstlike I feel like that's great
thing to workshop all by itselflike that's bringing something
to the table I think
SPEAKER_00 (33:08):
yes yeah okay okay so I'll report back you guys
about how my first writers groupwent with my kids teacher to
beat and without any support ohfrom Rachel
SPEAKER_01 (33:19):
well I'll be thinking of you okay um when is
the next one is they meet once amonth I think so okay well I
would love to go to the next oneso okay we'll see we won't we
will we will see okay so I haveone I kept popping up um
driftwood press um and it's apoem and short story contest and
(33:40):
they're seeking submissions forthey're saying a very like low
competition writing contest
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
um i don't mean low competition
SPEAKER_01 (33:49):
i'm not quite sure what that means but it's their
least competitive one is what idon't know that i don't know
their writing contest comes witha cash prize of 400 for first
place in fiction and 300 infirst place for poetry And then
there is a link in their bio forguidelines and details.
And they are Driftwood Press onInstagram.
(34:13):
Okay, so the short story contestwith Driftwood Press.
Submissions will be open fromSeptember 1st through January
15th.
So there's a bit more of awindow.
They will be declining andaccepting submissions as they
read them.
So you don't have to waitnecessarily to hear, which I
think is great.
And then...
(34:34):
All submissions will be acceptedinitially and then be given
runner-up status if they didlike it.
And then in April or May,someone will be awarded.
SPEAKER_00 (34:45):
Whoa, that's so far away, everybody.
SPEAKER_01 (34:47):
It is far away.
Whatever.
The award that you get is the$400, five copies of the issue
in which the story appears, andthen they'll interview you, and
your interview will be publishedalongside your story.
Very cool.
And then runner-ups will beoffered publications an
accompanying interview to$100USD and one copy of the issue in
(35:10):
which their work appears.
SPEAKER_00 (35:12):
So I think what's really good about this one is
that you get published.
So that's like a feather in yourcap.
Totally.
So I think what I'm going to dois I'm going to do a little more
research into Driftwood Pressand see what they've published
before, before I send.
And if it's something likesomething I've already written,
then I'll just send somethingthat I've already written.
SPEAKER_01 (35:31):
Okay.
So the guidelines,$1,000 to$5,000 soft word limit, so it
sounds like they're a littleflexible on that.
They do take simultaneoussubmissions.
You have to submit anonymously.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (35:43):
yeah, they do this thing with a lot of the contests
where they don't want you to putyour name anywhere on the file,
which I think is cool becauseyou don't really know what your
biases are going to be.
SPEAKER_01 (35:52):
Yeah, agreed.
Okay, so Driftwood Press, put alink to that when we post this
episode.
Okay, and then the next one wasRites of November is this woman
who I really like her vibe sheis like super funny and we
follow her on Instagram she islooking through like trying to
(36:13):
do her own contest and I haven'tseen her stuff before so I'm not
100% sure what I'm getting intoso I'll have to do a little bit
more research but she's doing atwo sentence writing contest and
I thought that was kind of funtwo sentences because they have
to hit hard you know$300 Andthen she does social media shout
(36:37):
outs to over 200,000 readers.
And then your sentences, you getinterviewed and then featured on
her website.
It's good for you, girl.
And then, so she wants you tosubmit two consecutive sentences
from your work in progress towin these prizes.
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (36:52):
from your work in progress.
Yeah.
So it doesn't, it's not likeflash fiction where it's
supposed to tell a story.
It's just like.
Oh, sure.
Yes.
Two cool
SPEAKER_01 (37:00):
sentences.
Cool.
I'm not, I didn't say thatcorrectly.
Thank you.
Thank you for clarifying.
SPEAKER_00 (37:05):
Oh, her name is November.
That is such a nice name.
SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
Isn't she so cute?
She's adorable.
Okay.
So that's her writing contest.
And then you do have to dosomething on her Instagram.
Like you comment this SS2025, soSS2025, to enter the
sweepstakes.
I'm not 100% on the sweepstakes.
I think it sounds really fun andcool.
(37:28):
And I like that idea.
And I might throw in somesentences from Dinner for Eight
for that.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_00 (37:35):
I'm going to throw in some sentences
SPEAKER_01 (37:45):
from something.
flash thing to share in a storytime.
(38:06):
Oh, right.
Yeah, I feel like why not?
I think that we should.
We've been saying that we'regoing to do a story time for at
least four episodes now.
I'm pretty sure.
So I think that we should doone.
I'm going to reach out to MJ andmake sure she's okay with us
reading the Elon poem becausewe've talked about that a few
times.
(38:27):
Yes.
Because I think that would
SPEAKER_00 (38:29):
be fun to share on a story time.
My friend Scott Gibson sent me apoem.
Great.
It wasn't done.
SPEAKER_02 (38:34):
Oh,
SPEAKER_00 (38:38):
okay.
(39:03):
Sure, as kids do.
(39:33):
lovable asshole and like that hekind of wanted to like be like
that so Scott and I started tokind of debate about that about
his poem but if he does sharehis poem then that would be
great because he's such a goodlike Scott is such a good writer
and he just he doesn't do itenough I think a lot of us like
(39:54):
a lot of the people I came ofage with we were all poets and
writers and spoken word artistsand musicians and stuff you know
when we were teenagers and inour early 20s but then we all
kind of like grew up and in our30s it's like a lot of us don't
do that thing anymore sure I'mreally glad that I've had this
like resurgence of my creativityand passion like later in life
(40:15):
and I want to encourage anybodyout there who was who was like
that who was a creative personin their youth but let that all
fall aside yeah to like pick itup again you're still you you're
still that same person insideand you still have those things
to express
SPEAKER_01 (40:31):
yeah submit something to us let's hear it
yeah let's hear it cool so thosewere all of your oh are we
reading these prompts okay wellthere's it's a lot of prompts so
I'll choose just three randomlyfrom each little list because it
had like a few differentsubjects okay and then what if
we just do a little challengefor the story time episode to
(40:54):
not don't write for more thantwo hours on just this prompt
SPEAKER_00 (40:58):
oh damn okay
SPEAKER_01 (40:59):
like a like a time limit oh okay and if it's
finished it's finished if it'snot it's not but we share what
we got okay yeah that soundsgood okay so um so here's the
first one is enemies to loversis the theme and you use or are
inspired by the quote bold ofyou to assume that i'd care uh
(41:20):
and then another one is uhyou're hurt why are you always
hurt oh and then another one isget behind me whoa so that's the
enemies to lovers ones.
Angry confession prompts.
Trust me, I'm also trying tounderstand how in the shit this
happened.
Okay, that's a funny one.
(41:42):
I've never, I haven't read thesethrough.
Whose are these?
I don't know.
Oh, I'm sorry.
It's from an account calledWriter Threads.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
Writer Threads.
SPEAKER_01 (41:51):
Okay.
Tell me how I'm supposed tounlove you then.
Tell me.
Spare me.
SPEAKER_00 (41:57):
That's interesting because usually if you say spare
me, you're kind of like tellingsomebody to like spare me the
details I don't want to hearwhat you're saying right yeah
but this is like so this is adifferent spin on spare me it's
sort of like spare me the painof having to try to figure out
how to unlove you on my own orsomething
SPEAKER_01 (42:18):
yeah I get
SPEAKER_00 (42:19):
it
SPEAKER_01 (42:20):
okay okay here's the last one for this one okay since
when did you ever care about mesince and then it's another
person answering in this promptsince fucking forever you
idiotic dunce so that's that oneAnd then one more, the sickness
or injury prompts.
Okay, there are those two ofthose.
Okay.
One quote is, just tell me whereit hurts.
(42:43):
Aww.
Another one is, can you carryme?
SPEAKER_00 (42:45):
You're making me want to
SPEAKER_01 (42:46):
cry.
I know.
And then, why didn't you tell meit hurt so bad?
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (42:52):
my God, this is
SPEAKER_01 (42:54):
making me so sad.
I know, these are sad ones.
Okay, so those are the promptsto choose from.
Oh
SPEAKER_00 (43:01):
my God.
So if
SPEAKER_01 (43:02):
you're listening right now and you've feel
inspired by one of those promptsand you want to do the two-hour
limit and write something to us,you can submit anonymously on
our website.
We do not require a name.
SPEAKER_00 (43:13):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (43:13):
So please submit it.
SPEAKER_00 (43:15):
Or you can get all the credit that you want.
We'll tell people about yourInstagram or whatever you want.
Whatever you want, baby.
SPEAKER_01 (43:22):
Even you, Dad.
I
SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
know you're listening.
Even you, David.
Yeah, maybe David will sendsomething.
That would be so exciting.
If you do, do it anonymously,
SPEAKER_01 (43:32):
Dad.
SPEAKER_00 (43:33):
Oh, my God.
Really?
What?
I don't know.
I'm
SPEAKER_01 (43:35):
scared.
Oh, you're
SPEAKER_00 (43:36):
scared what he's going
SPEAKER_01 (43:37):
to say?
No, I'm sure.
He's actually a really goodwriter, so it would be fun.
Okay.
Okay.
Anyway.
Okay.
We have our little two-hourlimit prompt for the next
Storytime episode.
Okay.
Yeah.
And then we're going to berecording again in the next few
days.
Are we having it?
Is that going to be Storytime?
Yeah.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (43:57):
I'll do a recap on how the writers group thing was.
Great.
Perfect.
And then we'll do Storytime.
SPEAKER_01 (44:02):
Fantastic.
I love that.
Alrighty.
Thank you guys for listening.
Thank you.
Bye.
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