April 14, 2025 • 53 mins
In this powerful episode of 'Wrong to Strong Chicago,' host Omar Calvillo speaks with Paul Bosanko, who shares his incredible journey from a turbulent childhood and life of crime to finding redemption through faith in Jesus Christ. Paul's story begins with his challenging upbringing in South Chicago, marked by severe physical abuse and subsequent entanglement in gang life. After spending over three decades in prison, including 13 years in Supermax, Paul experienced a profound spiritual awakening. Now dedicated to helping former inmates reintegrate into society, Paul serves as the Programs Manager at Finn Well Ministries. Tune in to hear his remarkable transformation from darkness to light and how he's helping others find hope and a new beginning.
This is part 4 of a 5 part interview series highlighting the amazing work that is happening in Kewanee, Illinois in regards to prison ministry and re-entry initiatives.
Become a supporter:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2049675/support
Rep the podcast with fresh gear and join a community that's shaping positive change!
https://wrongtostrongchicago.creator-spring.com/listing/wrong-to-strong-chicago-pod
https://wrongtostrongchicago.buzzsprout.com
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/wrong2strong_pod/
Email: wrong2strongchicago@gmail.com
https://youtube.com/@wrongtostrongchicagopodcast
https://www.facebook.com/wrongtostrongpodcast
Donate to help support the work we are doing via the link below: https://tinyurl.com/W2SPodcast-Donations
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul (00:00):
I got on the edge of my bed and I stood up and as I
(00:02):
stood up, I was like, what isgoing on?
What is going on?
What is going on?
I'm standing in the middle ofthis cell in Tams, in the
Supermax.
Grabbing my chest and my, mybody, and I'm doing exactly what
I'm doing with you brother,right here, standing up.
What is happening?
What, what's going on?
What's, I knew instantly I wasrestored them.
(00:26):
Hmm.
How did I know I was restoredwithout a shadow of a doubt.
When I took another man's lifein a very intentional and
premeditated way, brother, um,something happened there, there
was a transferring over of myspirit to the evil one.
I felt it.
I knew it and the minute I gotwith somebody that I was close
(00:47):
with, I told him, Hey brother,something happened.
Something happened here, righthere, brother.
I'm letting you know this is me.
Not something happened here, andthen you go about your day the
next day, but it's on your mind.
Well, why do I feel different?
Why do I feel different beyondanything I've felt in this
realm?
Brother, fast forward all theseyears later, brother.
(01:11):
2011, I'm in.
Supermax and I stand up brotherafter giving my heart to Jesus
Christ, and he saves my life andchanges my life instantaneously.
Omar (01:38):
From the city of Chicago, a city most recently known for
its crime and violence.
On this podcast, we will besharing stories of redemption
from individuals raised in thetough streets of Chicago and
from around the country.
Some of them were gang members,drug dealers, incarcerated
victims, and perpetrators ofviolence.
(01:59):
Listen to my guests as theyshare their experiences,
struggles, trauma, but also thestrength, Hope, faith and
perseverance.
These have developed in them tokeep pushing and moving forward
in life.
Tune in to hear how their liveshave gone from darkness to light
and from wrong to strong.
Hello everyone and welcome toanother episode of Wrong to
(02:21):
Strong Chicago.
I'm your host.
My name's Omar Calvio, and todaywe're out here in Kewanee,
Illinois.
Uh, shout out to RonnieCarrasquillo.
He's the one that brought me outhere.
He wanted to highlight some ofthe.
Things that are going out herein regards to prison ministry
outreach, and just theseprograms that are giving these
guys, uh, more than a, a secondchance.
From, from what I've beenwitnessing, it's, it is not just
(02:43):
a community, but it's likefamily and, man, I'm is been a
blessing.
I've been out here, uh, Fridaynight.
Right now we're in SA Saturdayafternoon and I've been blessed.
By the people that, that I'vebeen meeting, Amen, the
conversations that have beentaking place and just what's
going on out here.
You could definitely see, uh,God's hand in, in all and all
these things that are going, uh,on here.
So I got, I got my guest.
(03:04):
You wanna introduce yourself,brother, your name and maybe
where you grew up?
Paul (03:08):
Absolutely.
Um, my name is Paul Bosanko.
I grew up on, uh, in SouthChicago, which is, uh, right
against the lake, um, in theeighties and, uh, and nineties
and, um.
You know, Jesus Christ saved mylife, brother.
Hmm.
And I did 35 years in prison.
And, um, and as you can imagine,uh, anyone who spent time in the
(03:33):
joint, um, including 13 years inthe Supermax, it was, uh, very
difficult.
Brother man.
Very difficult to deal with.
Omar (03:42):
Gotcha.
You, you know what?
Let's start at the beginning.
You know, we'll go a little bit.
Uh, maybe you wanna talk aboutyour growing up, maybe your
childhood?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cookie.
Um, was mom and dad in the.
Like your brother, sister, howdid life look in, in those early
years?
Well,
Paul (03:53):
and I'm sure most people that are gonna listen to this
can identify with some of thethings I'm gonna say, especially
the brothers in the communityand the sisters that are, that
grew up in our community,whether it's Pilsen, south
Chicago, um, over beach andSpaul, no matter where we go in
the city or any inner city, someof these stories are very
similar.
So, um, I'll give you asnapshot.
(04:14):
I'll tell you a quick thing thatactually happened.
So I'm about six years old and,uh.
I don't remember what I did.
And little did I realize mymother was the catalyst for a
lot of the abuse that I got.
I was unaware until maybe 20years into my bit inside prison
(04:34):
that it finally dawned on methat she was the catalyst behind
it all.
And so something I did, and Iwas at home with her and, and my
brothers and sisters.
I had a, I got a older brotherand two younger sisters.
I'm very close with my brotherwho's a pastor.
Uh.
So she's telling me, wait tillhe gets home.
And so of course, just like anykid, if I go to sleep, I'm not
(04:57):
gonna get the consequences ofwhat's coming through the door.
So I went to sleep and littledid I realize I first, the first
hit I thought I was dreaming.
I literally thought it was adream.
And, uh, and the second hit letme realize that it wasn't a
dream.
And uh, the old cowboy belts,the real thick ones with the
(05:19):
big.
Bell buckle.
He hit me in my face and headwith the bell buckle.
Who, who, Who is he?
My father.
Okay.
My father, as soon as he came inand, uh, and as you can imagine
through the day and that night,um, uh, I was beat from one end
to the house to the next, uh,with that belt and him picking
me up and slamming me in theground.
(05:42):
Um, and so you can imaginegrowing up in a house like that,
including with.
Out your name ever being called,but every other name in the
book.
Um, being tied to chairs and,um, being starved.
Um, having to watch them throwaway the food that you shine
shoes for, to bring that food tothe house and watch them throw
(06:07):
away the food without you eatingit, but paying attention to what
they throw away.
So I could go in the garbage canand eat later on.
So these, um, these deposits onall the.
Ugly things in my life.
Um, as you can imagine, uh,started taking a toll when I
left the house and I was, uh, Iwas fighting more.
(06:30):
My self-esteem was in, inshambles, but I was fighting a
lot.
I was, I always felt challenged.
I always felt challenged withanything or correction or
anything that dealt with anytype of good or stability.
Um, and it pointed to me, I feltit was a challenge.
Um, and then I wanted to meetthat challenge, to be honest
(06:52):
with you.
Um, and so that was teachers,that was authority figures, that
was other people, my peers.
Um, I was functioning outta thatdysfunction Yeah.
That I was given to at an earlyage.
So, um, that's how, that's howthe anger built.
That's how the pain, uh, becamepart of my life.
(07:13):
Uh,
Omar (07:14):
man.
And how, how did that, manifestin your life as you're getting
like into.
Your teenage years, how doeslife look and in those years,
Paul (07:21):
yeah.
So of this is gonna soundhorrible, but that's the
reality.
That's what our life was.
So I wasn't, I was looking fortargets, brother.
I was looking for targets when Iwas sick and in pain.
I was looking for a reason toget into it on a consistent
basis.
Uh, physically.
(07:42):
Physically.
Let's get out.
Um, and, just attacking thepublic at large necessarily
wasn't the person I was at thesame time.
It was, I was just trying tohide it behind joining a gang
and, and us feeding off eachother's dysfunction and using
(08:05):
catchphrases, to incite all thewrong things in each other, um,
and then wrap it or act likeit's wrapped in love.
And the reality is, is thatwe're using one another.
We, we are playing on eachother's dysfunction.
Yeah.
Um, we're harming one anotherand killing our communities.
(08:27):
And, um, and then we're tryingto wrap it in a bowl that looks
like, uh, something righteous.
And the reality is, is thatwe're killing our people.
Omar (08:36):
You know, when you bring up the, that trauma, everything
that was going on and, and it'snot like back then, like even
with my friends, like I wouldsee the, like you mentioned, the
anger.
Yeah.
The just, they want to go hurtpeople.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And back then, no.
Nobody shared what was going onat home.
Nobody shared that they werebeing molested.
They were being abused.
That they were beaten.
Amen.
It's not till I started doingthis and I would talk to guys
(08:59):
that shared their testimony.
I'm like, man, like.
I was around you like for years.
I, I didn't know this was, thiswas going on like part of your
life, man.
Yes.
Like, and right now, like youmentioned, you, you band
together and each one is alreadybringing their own trauma and
they're just wanna like, hurtpeople.
Hurt people in a sense.
Right.
Paul (09:14):
And, and man, um, I was just talking to my lady, Nancy,
just a little while ago, and wewere having a discussion of
what's the root problem orwhat's the root behind this
issue?
Why, why am I easily offended byX, Y, and Z?
And so I know what triggers it.
It, but I have to also know whatthe root is.
And what the root is, is thisunbelievable physical abuse and
(09:38):
dismantling of the person, thelittle child at such a young age
that has profound effects.
And then you're trying to gainsome type of stability as you're
being raised in the streets.
And at the same time, you'regravitating to the exact men or
young boys that are dealing withtrauma in their lives.
(10:01):
And so we start branching outand feeling that it's
appropriate, uh, to take ourpain out on society.
Um, and so as I started to dothat, more everything becomes
more when you're involved inthat type of lifestyle.
And so I'm gonna one up, um, mycomrades and arms, for lack of a
(10:26):
better word, I'm gonna, I'mgonna show them that I'm this
down, uh, reli.
Viable member, um, that peopleare gonna, um, respect me that
they're,'cause we are showed andrightfully so, but we associate,
uh, respect with love, you know,even from our, our wives or our
(10:46):
significant other.
You know, if they don't respectyou, how can they love you?
Yeah.
Um, men have that deeplyingrained in them.
Um, but we pervert it.
we pervert it, we use it.
It, we abuse it.
We have no idea what love lookslike, uh, from when it comes
from Jesus Christ.
We don't know how to love.
(11:07):
So, um, I ended up killing twomen, uh, killing two boys at
different times, um, and was onthe run.
And, uh, and the FBI caught meoutta state and brought me back
and, uh, and before they cansend me away for natural life, I
copped out.
(11:27):
Um, and.
I turned, uh, 30 years intoalmost 40, uh, catching cases.
Okay, so they they sentenced youto 30 and then you're Yes.
Well, they actually sensed me to60.
60, and you had to do 30, but Ihad to do 30.
But then I, I wanted to turnthat into more.
I thought going in, I had thementality is I'm gonna make my
(11:49):
mark on the world right here.
I'm gonna be hee, I'm gonna bethis, I'm gonna mean something.
I'm gonna value this.
I'm gonna value that.
Cats are gonna see where I'm.
Cut from a different, all themweird, sick, um, hurtful
thoughts that you're trying toize into.
Like, you mean something or youvalue you're valuable and the
(12:11):
reality you're broken.
Hmm.
I was a broken boy in the cells.
Um, and I, I use this as a jokeand it's funny, I'm, you know,
I'm, I'm tearing up at, at um,um, too soft, not too soft.
The little puppy show on AnimalPlanet, you know, I'm seeing.
A little puppy show and I'mlike, oh, this is so cute.
(12:32):
This is so great.
And then when the doors roll,I'm on the gallery and I gotta
be a killer.
I gotta be a gorilla.
Something doesn't jive with thisman.
So that was going on in the btathat was going on in the joint,
brother.
I'm like, what am I doing, man?
Why?
And this is one of the turningpoints, and I'm not even
exaggerating, brother, what Godhas delivered me from.
(12:54):
And, uh, you know, I'm, I'mpicking up the phone and I'm
trying to pick up the pieces.
Of the lives that I destroyedand resemble some type of
normalcy, brother.
So I'm on the phone with my kidsand I'm trying to be dad.
You know, listen to mom, eatyour vegetables, do your
schoolwork.
Don't do this, don't do that.
(13:16):
And I'm hanging up the phone andI'm plotting murder.
And I remember that this isreally how the Pinta is brother.
And then I'm being, I'm beingcritical towards staff.
As well as police andpoliticians, when we myself,
have done horrific things in thecommunity, while ignoring all
(13:38):
them things that I've done,something had to change.
Something had to change.
Something's going on with me.
I hung that phone up and I'mwalking the prison.
I'm like, the heck is wrong withme, man, the heck is wrong.
What is going on?
Make a long story short.
Praise God.
(13:58):
Uh.
You know, we look at stoolpigeons in the community as
rotten, horrible, whatever, andwe forget at times in the joint,
um, you know, we think we canrape, murder and pillage the
community and there'd be noconsequences.
I mean, that's how I lived.
Yeah.
I didn't think the police shoulddo their job.
(14:18):
I mean, brother, I'm out hereliterally trying to hurt people
on a daily basis, and the policecome around and they're the ones
who I, I, I point to a, they're,they're the bad guys Kidding.
These are the ones doing thewrong things in the community.
Me, I, I, I'm a revolutionaryfighter.
I, I'm, I'm, I, I, I'm a mob.
(14:39):
I'm, I'm an organization.
I'm trying to do something andthe reality is I'm trying to
kill myself and others.
Omar (14:45):
Yup
Paul (14:46):
And, and slowly it was happening, and it was doing, and
some of it a little more quicklythan others, because as a kid
you're trying to do adult thingsand them adult things mean, um,
that you're gonna do.
Things that only governmentstell you to go do.
God doesn't tell you go killpeople.
(15:07):
People are not telling otherpeople go kill each other.
But you get involved in thatlifestyle, man, and that's what
they're asking.
We're asking you to be this.
And so it picks up in the jointand I pick the mandle up and as
I'm going through and hangingthe phone up with my kids and
I'm being this sick, evil man,um, as I'm.
(15:29):
Plotting, uh, and we dislikestool pigeons.
Um, to be honest, they were partof, they were part of the
solution brother.
Omar (15:37):
And
Paul (15:37):
in what sense?
They, they went to theadministration and told on me,
brother what I was plotting.
And before anything can happen,look how great God is.
God protects the innocent andthe guilty, the innocent who I
was going to get and the guiltyof me.
And so they grabbed me and putme away in a supermax for 13
years.
But, and the.
(15:59):
The court system had to get usout.
We'd have still been there.
We'd have still been there.
So as I'm there and I'm, I'mtrying to figure it out,
brother.
I'm angry at everything.
Isolation, brother is the flatout.
It's the dismantling of thehuman.
(16:19):
So systems and people, um, uh,governments and people who are
in authority, they use these,uh, methods to try to control a.
Person and, and some of that weunderstand if I'm out trying to
harm staff and other people, weunderstand that.
I understand that.
But when you're heavily investedin all the wrong things in the,
(16:44):
in that lifestyle, um, again,you think you, you're a freedom
fighter.
You think you're fighting forsome type of cause.
Correct.
And so I'm trying to reconcilethat.
What's interesting is.
Our kids never see us that way,brother.
I started to see that dynamicwith my kids.
I was, I was the best thing thathappened to my kids since life
(17:07):
spread.
My baby girls the way theylooked at me and, and my two
girls, I, I was in a, therelationship and she had the two
girls already, but they know meas dad point blank period.
But they know their other fatherand I was trying to never let
them be angry at him and, no,no, no.
He's got issues.
Try to, my, my daughters weren'thaving none of that.
(17:28):
No.
No, no, no.
Your dad, period.
So what I mean is they neverseen me like the rest of the
world see me.
So I'm trying to reconcile howcan they love, can you imagine
how they must have felt?
How do they reconcile that Dadis this warm, loving person all
while he's killing people?
(17:50):
Imagine all the conversations Ihad to have with the kids
because their moral compass isbeing structured as they're
growing up.
So.
Dad is telling them these arethe right things, why dad has
done horrific things.
Imagine how they're trying toreconcile that brother.
Well, I'm trying to reconcilethat in a supermax joint where
(18:11):
all I'm all in on the mob at thesame time, all this being all in
is wrong.
Yeah.
It's the devil's playground.
I, I'm, I'm, I'm promoting itlike it's something good when
it's destroying and killinglives, so.
Make a long story short, how didJesus Christ say my life?
(18:31):
Yeah.
How did that happen, brother?
So I'm trying to get the rightBible brother, um, to read.
I know Jesus is the answer.
Go ahead.
Omar (18:41):
Okay.
Uh, uh, prior to that, uh, theright Bible, you already had a
Bible.
Paul (18:45):
Yeah.
But, but it's just the Bible,the study Bible, I believe,
especially for people who arejust getting to know the Lord,
is, is, is an essential tool tohave.
Yeah.
Because if you don't understandwhat the scripture says.
As the, the, um, the people thatobviously have invested time in
studying the word of God havewhat it says right there.
(19:06):
Yeah.
So, um, I needed a study Biblebrother, so I can understand
what I'm reading.
And before this,
Omar (19:13):
uh, at that moment, what, what does, um, what role does
faith play in your life growingup?
Was your church?
Almost none.
None?
Okay.
Paul (19:22):
Almost none.
I mean, I went past the churchand would cross myself.
Yeah.
Like good Catholics do.
Okay.
Even though I rarely seen aCatholic church.
Um, I didn't even know whatbeing Catholic men, I just knew
we needed to do this because,you know, I grew up in the
community of, of mostlyobviously, uh, LAA brother.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's where I grew up with.
And so that's the staple.
(19:43):
And so as I'm growing up, I'mlike, oh, alright.
This is what a Catholic does.
Okay.
We go to church on.
No faith.
No, no.
Yeah.
Nothing to do with it.
So I'm in the SupermaxPenitentiary.
I've been there for some years.
I'm having night sweats.
I'm having terror, night sweats,and I'm in Terror Brother
because, um, you know,regulating your temperature when
(20:06):
you're sleeping is vital to mebecause I started to realize I
sleep hot.
But if I don't have somethingcool or the room be a cooler,
that it starts to trigger baddreams and then I start to
sweat, like.
Like a madman.
And I was in it during thatperiod, meaning I was really in
it, brother.
I was really, my spirit wasreally in turmoil, brother of
(20:27):
what I'd done, uh, and, and thelives I took brother.
And that really, really hurt me.
Like, it's hard to put intowords what that does, brother.
When you think about the person,uh, that you took his life and
their kids and what they don'thave anymore.
Um, brother, I.
(20:48):
I was in pain.
Uh, and then you're in painabout all that's been done to
you and you're in pain about allthat you've done.
So you need a savior who gets usout of this mess, brother.
And I knew Jesus was the answer,but I was searching for other
things.
Um, philosophy and all thesedifferent things that you go
through Buddhism, and I knewnone of them.
(21:10):
Feel me, brother?
Uh, is there wisdom there?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
But none of them feel me,brother.
'cause none of'em, none of'em.
Have Jesus Christ.
Amen.
And Jesus Christ, uh, redeemedus brother redemption is only
through Christ.
Amen.
And so as I started to searchand read the Word of God,
(21:30):
brother, and, and I've told thisstory so many times, I love
telling it.
And as I'm, I'm reading the wordof God.
I'm putting the word of God awayfor the day, and I'm going back
to sit in the bed and man,brother, the word is still here.
The book's there, but I'm, I'mhungering for him.
I'm hungering for him.
A way that I find it abnormaland how do I, how do I put it?
(21:53):
Have you ever like doneschoolwork or any type of work
and you're really enthusiasticabout what you're doing?
You are enthusiastic becauseyou're seeing the fruits of your
labor and you're understandingwhat you're reading.
There could be a component thereabout, uh, the word of God, but
this was different.
This was more brother.
This was almost like a callingon my spirit brother.
(22:17):
And so.
As I'm putting the Bible awayfor the day, it's still with me
and when I'm reading, so I, I'llpick it up from time to time
throughout the day.
Again, man, that man, this man,and I'm in the Old Testament.
I started at Genesis brother, soI'm reading more and more and
more, brother.
I'm reading chapters, the Moreand More Brother, um, that yeah,
(22:40):
something's happening, brother.
I don't know where I was in theBible.
It was still the Old Testament,one of the five books of the
beginning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Five books and, uh, and as I amhungry and putting it to the
side, um, I could tell you thisis my 15th year serving Jesus
(23:02):
Christ this month right here.
So it's March, April.
I, I, I've been reading the wordof God for a while, brother.
Um, and I actually started in10, 11.
I came to the Lord, I started in10 and, uh.
Hey, brother.
I walked.
I don't even realize I was doingit, Omar.
(23:23):
I know This's gonna sound crazy,brother.
I'm doing it, but it's not medoing it.
I, I, there wasn't a consciouschoice.
I got up that morning.
I said, I'm going to do thistoday.
I'm gonna do this today.
I'm gonna give my life to JesusChrist.
It wasn't like that, brother.
This was overwhelming compulsionby someone other than me.
(23:44):
Amen.
Jesus was at the helm, right.
This moment, and I mean,brother, it was a overwhelming
compulsion, but in a calm sense,it wasn't like, oh man, I'm
gonna do this.
I'm gonna do that.
I got on my knees at the end ofmy, um, at my bed.
Uh, I accepted Jesus Christ asmy Lord and Savior, and uh, and
(24:06):
I repented from my sins.
Seriously, brother.
That's the difference.
When you repent, if you repentseriously and wholeheartedly,
God honors that.
That's the repentance he'slooking for.
The dropping of pride, thedropping of ego, putting your
face to the ground and tellingGod, I am filthy.
(24:26):
Help me.
Jesus, please help me.
Once I really did that, brother,I'm not lying, Omar.
I got on the edge of my bed andI stood up and as I stood up, I
was like, what is going on?
What is going on?
What is going on?
I'm standing in the middle ofthis cell in Tams, in the
(24:47):
Supermax.
Grabbing my chest and my, mybody, and I'm doing exactly what
I'm doing with you brother,right here, standing up.
What is happening?
What, what's going on?
What's, I knew instantly I wasrestored them.
Hmm.
How did I know I was restoredwithout a shadow of a doubt.
When I took another man's lifein a very intentional and
(25:09):
premeditated way, brother, um,something happened there, there
was a transferring over of myspirit to the evil one.
I felt it.
I knew it and the minute I gotwith somebody that I was close
with, I told him, Hey brother,something happened.
Something happened here, righthere, brother.
I'm letting you know this is me.
(25:30):
Not something happened here, andthen you go about your day the
next day, but it's on your mind.
Well, why do I feel different?
Why do I feel different beyondanything I've felt in this
realm?
Brother, fast forward all theseyears later, brother.
2011, I'm in.
Supermax and I stand up brotherafter giving my heart to Jesus
(25:52):
Christ, and he saves my life andchanges my life instantaneously.
The sanctifying process, as youknow, brother, it's a walkout
process.
It's a lifelong process.
It just doesn't happen.
In some cases it does.
Yeah.
You come to the Lord and otherbrothers can talk about
cigarettes, alcohol, drugs,swearing, womanizing.
(26:13):
They can name off everythingthat they stopped and God
removed from them for.
The most part, most people thatare devout has given their lives
to Jesus Christ.
It's a walkout process.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it, and it's a long process,you know, we're, what can I tell
you?
From day one to the eighth yearI was in Yeah, brother, a lot of
(26:34):
mold against shape going on,just like today.
Omar (26:36):
Could I ask you, I know you were, you were in Tams at
that when you gave your life,now when you left Thas,
obviously you're in Tams byyourself.
Yeah.
Now.
How was that transition?
Like, did you walk away from themob?
Did you, were you a believer?
How
Paul (26:51):
does that look?
Yeah, absolutely brother.
Um, great question is, uh, thereality is when you, when I'm,
when I'm in there, mind you, Ididn't tell you that the year
before I came to the Lord.
The year that, that's, I'mtalking about and I'm traveling,
uh, through that, I get a letterfrom my father the next two
(27:13):
weeks.
Telling me that he's dying frompancreatic cancer.
The only man who's ever lovedme, brother, I was adopted based
on the state finally taking meout of the, uh, excuse me, out
of the house of the, my abusedparents.
Um, and so they had thiskangaroo court, um, or system in
place that you go to every year.
(27:35):
They're not, they're not lettingyou leave, but then the court
system ruled due processviolation of federal courts.
And so they had to align with.
With the decisions of the judge,of the federal judge.
So they put the court back in orthe hearing, and now they're
actually giving you anopportunity to leave.
And so I went there, um, afterthe director, deputy director
(27:56):
told me, you're doing all theseprograms, meaning while you're
in tams you can do paperwork,anger management and other
things.
So I started to do that,brother, and that was, that was
the beginning of my journey onallowing God to improve my life,
to really get me to where hecreated me to be.
Be not Paul, all thedysfunction.
I didn't know my timetables intomy thirties.
(28:19):
Um, I was uneducated, brother.
I didn't know brother.
Once I started to truly, trulygive my life to Christ,
everything changed.
So I get out and you can imagineI've been isolated.
All of us are together now.
The ones who've gotten out onthis trip, there's like 13, 15
of us and we're all, we're allon Old Death Road in Pontiac.
(28:44):
And as we're there, we'reinteracting with each other and
we're sharing stories and thingsand the effects of what's
happening right now.
And one of the effects, we allimmediately got sick.
'cause we ain't been aroundsociety to bound drugs for
anything.
Yeah.
We all got sick and we allcraved to go back for the most
part because you're so ingrainedwith the isolation as part of
(29:10):
you that your mind starts toplay tricks on you, brother.
I.
Equated a little bit like when Isee the brothers headed into,
um, headed back into prison,brother.
I ran across the prison, uh, abrother who came outta prison,
um, and we're having adiscussion and brother, he, I'm
(29:32):
ready to go back.
I'm, and I had to talk him offthe ledge.
I equated with that a littlebit, brother, and even though I
know I didn't want to go back,my body, my system was craving
to go back.
So we had to.
A nine month program in sixmonths in Pontiac and three
months in Menard preparing us tobe released back into
population.
'cause we've been separated solong.
(29:52):
And it's a step down program,that's what it's called.
And uh, and we're, we're firston the yard together and then
once we get to men Menards, sixmonths later we are on the yard
together.
And so that was a heck of aexperience because all of us
together were finally able toshoot ball.
We almost broke each other bonesand we're all wild and crazy
with the energy Yeah.
(30:13):
Of being cooped up.
All them years and we got out,and I'll be honest, brother.
Yeah.
I left the mob.
Absolutely, brother.
I gave my life to Jesus Christthat, that, that was a wrap.
You can't play both sides of thefence.
You're either all in on thelight or not.
Yeah.
And so I understand that can bedifficult and there's a process,
(30:33):
but the reality is, is that ifI'm preaching the gospel of
Jesus Christ and then I'msharpening the shank in the cell
to get at another guy that Ifeel.
Separate than the the mob or thegang.
I'm, come on man.
That ain't Christlike.
Yeah, that ain't Christlike.
Omar (30:50):
Definitely gotta be a shift there.
Amen.
so you're in there, you know,you, you, you get out of Tam's
back in population.
Uh, can you tell us how youended up out here?
Kewanee
Paul (30:58):
Absolutely, brother.
So I went to a fewpenitentiaries, one the
immediate Menard, and I'm still,um, I'm serving God left, all
that behind, um, uh, active inthe church as much as you
possibly can during that time,um, and getting to Wan's heart.
So I actually.
Uh, we had to write an essay.
We had to ask some questionsthrough the, through the grace
of God, man, I, I landed inKewanee and it is, praise God
(31:21):
that I got there.
But little did I know God had aplan in place.
So obviously I'm doing my thingin the joint, but I'm, I'm, I'm
taking all these programs.
I'm, I'm a mentor for LewisUniversity.
The students there for 10 yearsin Romeoville before Keane.
Uh, we get to Keane.
We have a program that we'redoing over Zoom with the
juveniles in St.
(31:41):
Charles.
Um, we're doing.
In all these programs, and meand Ronnie obviously are, are,
are hand in hand, um, includingchurch.
Um, we had to kinda shape thechurch and the image of Jesus
Christ rather thanself-promotion.
Um, so that took a lot ofdifficult, hard work with, uh,
telling people that they have tokind of sit down or step aside.
(32:04):
And so, but we got it to where,um, it, it reflected Jesus
Christ and the word of God wasat the center of what we were
doing.
And at the same time.
Um, heritage Church was thefirst one outta Rock Island to
come in and Chris and Mike Wexelthat would come in on a separate
day, even when the juvenileswere there.
'cause this used to be ajuvenile facility.
(32:26):
And, um, and they left.
And Hill Church, which we arecurrently at right now, doing
this interview, um, they came inbecause the chaplain there is
from Hill Church.
So they started to come in and,and obviously, um, your audience
will get to know some of themand.
Including Bennett, who is theyouth pastor right now, and they
(32:47):
came into the facility and andloved on us.
Brother worshiped, the Lord,loved on us.
We developed unbelievablerelationships and so I'm about
less than a month out brother.
It's December 22nd, it's 2023,and my director Ben Andres is
(33:07):
there delivering pizzas withHeritage Church and some other
people from the community that.
Um, are from Hill Church andfirst Christian and stuff.
And, uh, he hears me ministeringto the warden.
I'm having a long conversationwith James Caruthers and, and
we're doing our thing, brother,and, and we're talking about
Jesus Christ and what he can doand, and he solves all the
(33:29):
social problems we have and soon and so forth.
And Ben asked me, do you haveafterwards, he asked me, do you
have a job?
And I says, not currently, butI'm looking for a job, you know?
And, uh, he then says, uh, gimmea call.
So.
Absolutely.
A week and a half later, I'msitting at a coffee shop in town
and I'm sitting across from Benand we're having a conversation.
(33:50):
He tells me about heavymachinery and that he can train
me on his farm and so on and soforth.
And then he's like, or, um, youknow, I have this nonprofit, and
I'm like, tell me about thenonprofit.
He starts telling me, he says,well, um, years ago I hired a,
um, ex-con, um, and I wasintrigued by the lack of support
(34:11):
that he had or, or opportunity,um.
And so he provided anopportunity through his company.
Uh, he started to work'em andeverything was working smooth,
but it got him to thinking,where do men go when they get
out of prison?
How do we keep them from therecidivism rate going in and
out?
How do we keep them from makingthem sane, poor choices or bad
(34:35):
choices?
Um, and so that started him on ajourney of of of, of being a
prayer warrior to God act.
Asking God is this his hand?
And so finally he got obviouslythe message from the Lord and
through his obedience, thatmeeting at the coffee shop and
him preparing financially forthat, um, was materializing
(35:00):
right before his eyes.
And so after he hired me, um,two months later I became the
programs manager, which I amright now of Finn Well
Ministries and our primary, uh,reason for existing.
Is helping the men that come outof prison, what does that look
like, brother?
Um, if they need housing, wehave a house that we put them
in, brother.
(35:21):
Um, we want to take care of allthe material things that any man
needs when he first comes out.
Absolutely, brother.
Uh, we want to get them a job.
We want to provide fortransportation.
We want to provide housing forthem.
But to be honest, brother, allthem things are easily done.
Um, we, we want these brothers.
(35:44):
Us to be healed.
Amen.
We want to love on thesebrothers.
It's personal for us.
Uh, a man who's never knownprison was obedient to God and
God gave him the mission.
He in turn gave us the keys forus to help us.
Amen.
So you can make this up.
(36:04):
I'm gonna tell you this partthat I kept out a month prior to
me getting out the program thatwe bring to the, um, to the
institution, which is called uhuh.
Foundational rhythms, and it'sthrough Cliff and Sue Parish.
Um, we, me and Ronnie broughtthem down there, and as we bring
them down there in thiscurriculum, it's a 16 week
(36:24):
course.
Um, four week, uh, four courses.
I finally, at the end, I finishit, I, um, I do the Shark Tank
nine business people.
It was either seven, it wasseven business people and nine
of us.
Well, I took first place get,guess what I took first place
in?
What was that nonprofit?
(36:46):
You can't make this stuff up.
And Mike, who is ourconstruction manager, who
doesn't, it doesn't entail histitle, doesn't entail how
valuable he is to our ministrybrother.
He disciples the men on a dailybasis, brother, because we bring
some men in to work in ourconstruction part because we
have buildings that we're tryingto get ready for the men and
(37:09):
Mike deals with the day to day.
I'm in tune with everything thatgoes on.
On, but obviously my jobencompasses so many different
things within the ministry thatmy wheelhouse is not carpentry.
Yeah.
Even though I've been there tohelp the majority of the
brothers do all that.
And then I come and I haveconversations with the man,
(37:29):
including once a week and sitdown and we go through life
skill program that we have,which I just talked about.
Yeah.
Which is foundations for life.
Again, brother, we're findingmen are more in.
Need of, of not just thattender, loving ear and shoulder,
(37:51):
um, but they also need to bewalked through some basic things
in life, but in the right way,brother, where they don't feel
marginalized, so they don't feellike this is a chore to you, or
this is a duty to you.
That you're doing it out ofbrotherhood, that you're doing
it out of the love of Christ.
(38:12):
Remember, most of the brothersand sisters.
Who come out of the joint.
We don't know this type of love,brother.
Right.
You know that we don't get thistype of love.
So, so when I hear people angryat me about what other brothers
are doing that are in theprogram that are not lining up
perfectly with the standard, itdoesn't mean this is the no
(38:32):
shuck in the jive of ministry.
If you're serious about yoursuccess, we're serious about the
help.
But if you're playing games,yeah, no, we don't have time for
that.
Right?
We got a host of brothers.
We need to make sure that they.
Land, not just successfully, butthrive in what we talked about.
So when people start telling me,you know, they're doing this and
they're not right and they'redoing this, I says, so if we
(38:55):
don't show the love and graceand mercy of God, who does, if
people who love Jesus Christdoes not show grace.
And a matter of fact, when youstart to talk to Pastor Bennett,
we had these conversations aswell about a specific
individual.
That's not to mean we're notgonna help'em get what they
need.
Need to get and reach thesestandards.
(39:17):
But I find it amazing whetherit's a single mother with three
kids where, and she's made poorchoices and been with, uh, poor
men, um, that are broken.
Um, I hear these comments, thesethese real grand statements by
people.
Yeah.
Well, if they don't and theybetter do the, and I agree with
(39:38):
that, but where's the grace?
Yeah.
Where's the love?
So our minute.
Street brother.
Um, and as long as I'm here,it's gonna be very big on the
grace of God.
Omar (39:49):
Hmm.
Paul (39:49):
Amen.
It's gonna be very big on thegrace of God.
And I push the men that I'maround, I push them, I call them
out.
I hold them accountable to whatthey do and don't do.
Um, at the same time, um, I sitthere and talk to'em when
they're crying or they'redealing with issues or that we
need to take'em to a counselorthat deals with unresolved
(40:13):
issues that I'm.
Ill-equipped to deal with, Icould give you all the love in
the world, brother, but I didn'tgo to school for that.
Yeah.
And, and we have a woman of Godon Staff Brother.
Um, she has her own business,but she's a counselor that helps
with the men that are dealingwith whatever issue they're
dealing with, including detoxcenters, including drug
(40:35):
treatment centers, including,uh, um, teen and adult
challenge, including pathway.
These are all researchers, aBridgeway here in town.
Um, these are all resourcesthat, that I've tried to
cultivate over the year thatwe've been in existence that is
strictly for one reason and onereason only to help these men.
(40:58):
Everything we do is about helpthe men.
Now, don't get me wrong, basedon, and this is why I love my
director, this man is stompeddown for Jesus Christ, brother.
Um, we we're, we areunbelievably close, uh, because.
Um, the criteria is you loveJesus Christ, so I'm gonna be
close to you.
(41:19):
You're on mission.
Yeah.
You're on mission for thekingdom of God.
We're down.
We're gonna be rocking, we'regonna be together, we're gonna
move, we're gonna do all that wecan because what the interesting
part of me coming home and Iused to tell brothers on the
inside, especially olderbrothers, that've been gone a
long time.
Brother, I'm, I really don'tgrab the concept of you coming
home and not having that samefire for the.
(41:44):
Kingdom of God for Jesus Christ,brother.
And that doing something aboutit, um, because when I was all
in for the wrong things, I wasall in.
Now I'm not all in for Jesus.
You have to be all in.
That's right.
And that doesn't mean you don'tcome with the flaws and you make
mistakes.
Absolutely.
But step up and step into thelight.
Omar (42:02):
Amen.
Paul (42:03):
So we want men to reflect all the good things that God is
doing for their lives and themrecognizing that, how do you
break them chains.
I'm gonna tell you a quickstory.
Tied in and we can, we can endbrother and, and I'll show you
how this applies to all of us.
So I cheated on a test before Icame home.
The department gave the test.
(42:24):
I cheated on the test.
It would've got me six months,brother.
I'm a devout man of God.
I'm, I'm, I'm moving in thejoint brother.
And everybody sees me that way,brother, because I don't come
outside them lines.
I don't hang into groups.
I don't do all them things,brother.
I'm a righteous man of God thatdid all the wrong things.
So I can go home and I cheatedon that test brother and I got
(42:48):
caught and the minute EternalAffairs brought it to me,
brother, the minute they broughtit to me, I said, absolutely.
That's my writing.
Absolutely.
I did that.
Absolutely.
And then I got up and I went toall the other department, some
of them in tears.
I did this, I'm out of pocketand there's no excuse.
(43:09):
And brother, the way it scorchedthe landscape and the
penitentiary.
Street brother, because Paul wasthe devout man of God.
Paul was helping lead thechurch.
Paul is one of the men thatdon't come off his love for
Christ, and he did what?
Hey brother.
I had Christians not wanting totalk to me.
(43:31):
Now that's stemmed the work outwith Jesus Christ.
Yeah.
My job was to truly repent,which I did accept ownership of
what I did.
Step up and step into the lightand then learn.
In everything I possibly canfrom it, and me and Mike still
feed off that.
How do we still feed off thatbrother?
(43:51):
Brother Omar, I'm not lying toyou, brother.
I thank God for them extra sixmonths in the joint.
I thank God for being caught.
I thank God for being sent tothe supermax and two men telling
on me.
I thank God for them thingsbecause we don't see the hand of
God in them moments.
But the reality is that Romans 828 says, and we know that God
(44:12):
causes everything to worktogether for the.
The good of those who love Godand called according to his
purpose.
I was still called by God in mycheating.
I was still loved by God in mycheating, but I don't get to
pick the consequences.
Just like David didn't get topick the consequences.
And when God and the prophetNathan came to him and
(44:32):
confronted him on his sin, andwhat did he do?
He stepped up and stepped in.
Not initially.
You bring me in and I swear byson now he'll die.
It's you that.
Had one lesson, brother cominghome prevented me from cutting
corners.
Yeah.
Preventing me from cheating thesystem.
There's always a system.
(44:53):
Look at, look at, um, public aidas a perfect example.
You know, we get the card whenwe first come home, brother.
We were done our six months.
Now you could rock that boy aslong as you want.
As long as you lie, as long asyou cheat.
And we'll promote that.
We'll promote it like we'redoing something, you know,
honorable.
(45:14):
Man, man, I'm gonna get thiscard.
And I did that.
And all the, I'm gonna get SSI,I'm gonna do, I've seen all the
paperwork.
I know what's up.
I know what the government givesor don't give, and the things
you have to work for to getthem.
And then you have to lie there'sbeen so many times that me,
Mike, and the rest of thebrothers have seen, um, we
(45:35):
didn't take advantage of thesystem.
Hmm.
We didn't take the easy route.
Um, trust God, um, work hard, bepatient, God, honor that.
Amen.
And he has.
And he has.
So that one choice I made thatwas ungodly how God used that
brother to not only mold andshaped me, but the effects of
(45:59):
that and the deposits that Iwould make on that, long after
that lesson or the lessonproviding for me all the way.
Through my walk with him, um,has benefited us tenfold.
Brother has benefited ustenfold.
So my point being is, is that Iknow it's difficult.
I walk this walk every day,brother.
(46:21):
I'm in it every single day.
I know it's hard, brother.
It's more hard a year that I'mout than it was the first six
months.
We have a meeting every twoweeks.
Our ministry, we're in constantconversation every day.
Um, and the people that arearound me in this.
Church that you'll find out andthe more people you interview
for this community has beenoutstanding, brother, open arms
(46:44):
like you wouldn't believe.
We don't get the same backlashlike other people get in the
city.
Not this town, not these people.
Not Hill Church, not firstChristian.
These men and women in thiscommunity as opened their arms
like I've never seen, I sit inthe kitchen and eat dinner
somewhat frequently to a exstate cop.
(47:07):
And his wife and know his familyand love them and their
grandkids, and they treat melike their son, brother.
They treat me like their familybrother like you wouldn't
believe brother.
Not just me, but the brothers.
The brothers, everyone we bringin, they bring open arms, warmth
(47:30):
and love of Christ like I'venever seen in my life.
Omar, our ministry.
I'm gonna put this in anutshell.
Our ministry brother, a man getsout and he has a hard time of
getting an id and he has allthese things.
So we offer him the house tostay at'cause he's homeless.
(47:51):
And we also let him know thatthe DMV accepts our place as a
home body spot.
So you could get your id.
Make a long story short, he gothis id, we're driving in the car
after a year, not being able toget it, being homeless and all
these other things.
He's driving.
He's working now.
He's doing all these greatthings.
He called me the other day too,and as we're driving, you know
(48:12):
what he told me, brother?
And, and Mike, he said, man,brother, you, you bring hope.
Our ministry is a ministry ofhope, brother.
Amen.
The hope of Jesus Christ.
Point blank period.
And if we're not giving that tomen, we're not giving that to
the community.
'cause we help, I'm a youthsponsor at church every Sunday.
(48:36):
Um, I go into.
This field school right here inthe grade school, in the high
school and mentor the studentsand, and counsel them once a
week.
Um, yeah, brother.
We're trying to prevent thisrevolving door.
Amen.
But why we're trying to preventit.
We're not vilifying the peoplethat are in prison.
We're trying to get society tounderstand is that you can't
(48:58):
ignore sex offenders justbecause you dislike their crime.
We've bought a building just sowe can house them there because
we.
Have a difficult time.
These brothers who are comingout who make horrific choices
and bad choices.
Okay, now what?
Now what?
People forget that, well, we'lltake that responsibility on
(49:21):
Jesus Christ has called usBrother.
Amen.
And hopefully we're answeringevery day, brother.
Um,
Omar (49:27):
man.
No, it sounds like you guys aredoing tremendous work out here,
man.
And I've seen that firsthand.
You mentioned the families, thelove.
Amen.
Man, that's, that's awesome tohear, man.
Amen.
So.
And any, any final words and,uh, just one.
Go ahead.
No, I was gonna ask you, do youguys, uh, is there a way people
could I, uh, I know you theministry Yeah.
That where they could, uh, so,or you know what I'm saying?
Paul (49:47):
Yeah.
Listen, uh, if you need tocontact the ministry and see if,
uh, if you're a good foot, wehave paperwork.
Just like any, uh, uh, um, St.
Leonard's.
St.
Leonard's has paperwork.
We have paperwork too.
We expect you to meet theexpectations you agreed to.
We're not gonna tell you whatour stand.
Uh, we're looking for you tohonor the things that bear the
(50:13):
right fruit.
And the only way you do that, ifyou do it, that's their choice
to do.
Yeah.
That's their job to do.
But we'll support you every waywe can.
So if you need to get a licenseand that's one of your
responsibilities, Hey Paul, Ineed to get a license.
Alright, let's run.
Hey, I need a job.
Okay, come on.
(50:33):
I'll take you to all the, weexpect you to put.
Skin in the game because this isyour life.
But where you can contact us atand see if this is something you
would like to land at and buildfrom here.
Um, my number's(309) 502-2223.
Call me anytime.
Gotcha.
Leave a message.
Lemme say this, Omar.
(50:53):
Praise God for what you'redoing, brother.
Praise God.
You're bringing a light brotherto where most people want to
ignore.
Omar (50:59):
Hmm.
Paul (51:00):
Um, you're bringing hope, um, not just to the brothers
that you interviewed.
Who, but to the greater good ofhumanity, brother.
Um, this is a service to thekingdom as well.
I appreciate brother, the inviteand you traveling down here and
giving me your time as well asthe other people that you'll
interview.
Brother.
(51:20):
Uh, thank you brother.
Omar (51:21):
No, no.
Yeah, for sure.
You know, you know about one ofmy saints is if it's of God,
it's of me.
Paul (51:27):
Amen.
Omar (51:28):
Amen.
Like, if it's to bring glory toGod.
Amen.
If it's to man, uh, highlight,you know Jesus, man, what he's
doing in people's lives, man,I'm all for it, man.
At me just driving two and ahalf hours to Kiwan in my head,
I'm here.
Yeah.
You know, Ronnie's been tellingme about this.
I'm like, man, I told Ronnie,Hey, whenever you're ready, you
just let me know and I'm there,man.
Pack up my little bags and we'reout here.
But you know what, brother?
Thank you for your time.
(51:49):
Amen.
Thank you for sharing your storywith us.
I always ask our guests if theycould close us out on the
prayer.
Paul (51:52):
Amen brother.
I appreciate that brother.
Um, Thank you Father.
Thank you for this moment, Lord,for everybody that's in this
room and everybody who sees thisand hears this, hear them as
well.
Lord, hear their petitions atnight, Lord, as they send them
up to you in the still of thenight when nobody's around,
(52:14):
Lord, that's when faith is thepurists, isn't it?
Father, when we reach out.
Out to you in need when we knowyou're the answer, father, that
we run to you, that we throw ourface to the ground, that we tell
you Lord, that we need you.
We do each and every day.
Father, every second.
Thank you for brother Omar andRonnie and for coming down here
(52:37):
Lord and giving us the abilityto glorify you, Lord, and
continue your work and tohighlight the ministry, brother
and and to the things that we'redoing.
Thank you, father.
Thank you for all you do.
Father, thank you for the nextbreath that we'll all take,
Lord.
Lord, it continues to mold andshape us in your image, Lord, in
your son's image, in JesusChrist's name we pray.
Amen.
Omar (52:57):
Amen.
Amen.
The thank you for joining me,brother.
And with that, we're gonna getready to wrap up.
Uh, Matthew four 16 reads, thepeople who sat in darkness have
seen a great light and uponthose who sat in the region and
shadow of death light has dawnedalongside my guest, Paul.
My name's Omar Calvillo, and weare wrong too strong.
Amen.
I got on the edge of my bed and I stood up and as I
(00:02):
stood up, I was like, what isgoing on?
What is going on?
What is going on?
I'm standing in the middle ofthis cell in Tams, in the
Supermax.
Grabbing my chest and my, mybody, and I'm doing exactly what
I'm doing with you brother,right here, standing up.
What is happening?
What, what's going on?
What's, I knew instantly I wasrestored them.
(00:26):
Hmm.
How did I know I was restoredwithout a shadow of a doubt.
When I took another man's lifein a very intentional and
premeditated way, brother, um,something happened there, there
was a transferring over of myspirit to the evil one.
I felt it.
I knew it and the minute I gotwith somebody that I was close
(00:47):
with, I told him, Hey brother,something happened.
Something happened here, righthere, brother.
I'm letting you know this is me.
Not something happened here, andthen you go about your day the
next day, but it's on your mind.
Well, why do I feel different?
Why do I feel different beyondanything I've felt in this
realm?
Brother, fast forward all theseyears later, brother.
(01:11):
2011, I'm in.
Supermax and I stand up brotherafter giving my heart to Jesus
Christ, and he saves my life andchanges my life instantaneously.
Omar (01:38):
From the city of Chicago, a city most recently known for
its crime and violence.
On this podcast, we will besharing stories of redemption
from individuals raised in thetough streets of Chicago and
from around the country.
Some of them were gang members,drug dealers, incarcerated
victims, and perpetrators ofviolence.
(01:59):
Listen to my guests as theyshare their experiences,
struggles, trauma, but also thestrength, Hope, faith and
perseverance.
These have developed in them tokeep pushing and moving forward
in life.
Tune in to hear how their liveshave gone from darkness to light
and from wrong to strong.
Hello everyone and welcome toanother episode of Wrong to
(02:21):
Strong Chicago.
I'm your host.
My name's Omar Calvio, and todaywe're out here in Kewanee,
Illinois.
Uh, shout out to RonnieCarrasquillo.
He's the one that brought me outhere.
He wanted to highlight some ofthe.
Things that are going out herein regards to prison ministry
outreach, and just theseprograms that are giving these
guys, uh, more than a, a secondchance.
From, from what I've beenwitnessing, it's, it is not just
(02:43):
a community, but it's likefamily and, man, I'm is been a
blessing.
I've been out here, uh, Fridaynight.
Right now we're in SA Saturdayafternoon and I've been blessed.
By the people that, that I'vebeen meeting, Amen, the
conversations that have beentaking place and just what's
going on out here.
You could definitely see, uh,God's hand in, in all and all
these things that are going, uh,on here.
So I got, I got my guest.
(03:04):
You wanna introduce yourself,brother, your name and maybe
where you grew up?
Paul (03:08):
Absolutely.
Um, my name is Paul Bosanko.
I grew up on, uh, in SouthChicago, which is, uh, right
against the lake, um, in theeighties and, uh, and nineties
and, um.
You know, Jesus Christ saved mylife, brother.
Hmm.
And I did 35 years in prison.
And, um, and as you can imagine,uh, anyone who spent time in the
(03:33):
joint, um, including 13 years inthe Supermax, it was, uh, very
difficult.
Brother man.
Very difficult to deal with.
Omar (03:42):
Gotcha.
You, you know what?
Let's start at the beginning.
You know, we'll go a little bit.
Uh, maybe you wanna talk aboutyour growing up, maybe your
childhood?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cookie.
Um, was mom and dad in the.
Like your brother, sister, howdid life look in, in those early
years?
Well,
Paul (03:53):
and I'm sure most people that are gonna listen to this
can identify with some of thethings I'm gonna say, especially
the brothers in the communityand the sisters that are, that
grew up in our community,whether it's Pilsen, south
Chicago, um, over beach andSpaul, no matter where we go in
the city or any inner city, someof these stories are very
similar.
So, um, I'll give you asnapshot.
(04:14):
I'll tell you a quick thing thatactually happened.
So I'm about six years old and,uh.
I don't remember what I did.
And little did I realize mymother was the catalyst for a
lot of the abuse that I got.
I was unaware until maybe 20years into my bit inside prison
(04:34):
that it finally dawned on methat she was the catalyst behind
it all.
And so something I did, and Iwas at home with her and, and my
brothers and sisters.
I had a, I got a older brotherand two younger sisters.
I'm very close with my brotherwho's a pastor.
Uh.
So she's telling me, wait tillhe gets home.
And so of course, just like anykid, if I go to sleep, I'm not
(04:57):
gonna get the consequences ofwhat's coming through the door.
So I went to sleep and littledid I realize I first, the first
hit I thought I was dreaming.
I literally thought it was adream.
And, uh, and the second hit letme realize that it wasn't a
dream.
And uh, the old cowboy belts,the real thick ones with the
(05:19):
big.
Bell buckle.
He hit me in my face and headwith the bell buckle.
Who, who, Who is he?
My father.
Okay.
My father, as soon as he came inand, uh, and as you can imagine
through the day and that night,um, uh, I was beat from one end
to the house to the next, uh,with that belt and him picking
me up and slamming me in theground.
(05:42):
Um, and so you can imaginegrowing up in a house like that,
including with.
Out your name ever being called,but every other name in the
book.
Um, being tied to chairs and,um, being starved.
Um, having to watch them throwaway the food that you shine
shoes for, to bring that food tothe house and watch them throw
(06:07):
away the food without you eatingit, but paying attention to what
they throw away.
So I could go in the garbage canand eat later on.
So these, um, these deposits onall the.
Ugly things in my life.
Um, as you can imagine, uh,started taking a toll when I
left the house and I was, uh, Iwas fighting more.
(06:30):
My self-esteem was in, inshambles, but I was fighting a
lot.
I was, I always felt challenged.
I always felt challenged withanything or correction or
anything that dealt with anytype of good or stability.
Um, and it pointed to me, I feltit was a challenge.
Um, and then I wanted to meetthat challenge, to be honest
(06:52):
with you.
Um, and so that was teachers,that was authority figures, that
was other people, my peers.
Um, I was functioning outta thatdysfunction Yeah.
That I was given to at an earlyage.
So, um, that's how, that's howthe anger built.
That's how the pain, uh, becamepart of my life.
(07:13):
Uh,
Omar (07:14):
man.
And how, how did that, manifestin your life as you're getting
like into.
Your teenage years, how doeslife look and in those years,
Paul (07:21):
yeah.
So of this is gonna soundhorrible, but that's the
reality.
That's what our life was.
So I wasn't, I was looking fortargets, brother.
I was looking for targets when Iwas sick and in pain.
I was looking for a reason toget into it on a consistent
basis.
Uh, physically.
(07:42):
Physically.
Let's get out.
Um, and, just attacking thepublic at large necessarily
wasn't the person I was at thesame time.
It was, I was just trying tohide it behind joining a gang
and, and us feeding off eachother's dysfunction and using
(08:05):
catchphrases, to incite all thewrong things in each other, um,
and then wrap it or act likeit's wrapped in love.
And the reality is, is thatwe're using one another.
We, we are playing on eachother's dysfunction.
Yeah.
Um, we're harming one anotherand killing our communities.
(08:27):
And, um, and then we're tryingto wrap it in a bowl that looks
like, uh, something righteous.
And the reality is, is thatwe're killing our people.
Omar (08:36):
You know, when you bring up the, that trauma, everything
that was going on and, and it'snot like back then, like even
with my friends, like I wouldsee the, like you mentioned, the
anger.
Yeah.
The just, they want to go hurtpeople.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And back then, no.
Nobody shared what was going onat home.
Nobody shared that they werebeing molested.
They were being abused.
That they were beaten.
Amen.
It's not till I started doingthis and I would talk to guys
(08:59):
that shared their testimony.
I'm like, man, like.
I was around you like for years.
I, I didn't know this was, thiswas going on like part of your
life, man.
Yes.
Like, and right now, like youmentioned, you, you band
together and each one is alreadybringing their own trauma and
they're just wanna like, hurtpeople.
Hurt people in a sense.
Right.
Paul (09:14):
And, and man, um, I was just talking to my lady, Nancy,
just a little while ago, and wewere having a discussion of
what's the root problem orwhat's the root behind this
issue?
Why, why am I easily offended byX, Y, and Z?
And so I know what triggers it.
It, but I have to also know whatthe root is.
And what the root is, is thisunbelievable physical abuse and
(09:38):
dismantling of the person, thelittle child at such a young age
that has profound effects.
And then you're trying to gainsome type of stability as you're
being raised in the streets.
And at the same time, you'regravitating to the exact men or
young boys that are dealing withtrauma in their lives.
(10:01):
And so we start branching outand feeling that it's
appropriate, uh, to take ourpain out on society.
Um, and so as I started to dothat, more everything becomes
more when you're involved inthat type of lifestyle.
And so I'm gonna one up, um, mycomrades and arms, for lack of a
(10:26):
better word, I'm gonna, I'mgonna show them that I'm this
down, uh, reli.
Viable member, um, that peopleare gonna, um, respect me that
they're,'cause we are showed andrightfully so, but we associate,
uh, respect with love, you know,even from our, our wives or our
(10:46):
significant other.
You know, if they don't respectyou, how can they love you?
Yeah.
Um, men have that deeplyingrained in them.
Um, but we pervert it.
we pervert it, we use it.
It, we abuse it.
We have no idea what love lookslike, uh, from when it comes
from Jesus Christ.
We don't know how to love.
(11:07):
So, um, I ended up killing twomen, uh, killing two boys at
different times, um, and was onthe run.
And, uh, and the FBI caught meoutta state and brought me back
and, uh, and before they cansend me away for natural life, I
copped out.
(11:27):
Um, and.
I turned, uh, 30 years intoalmost 40, uh, catching cases.
Okay, so they they sentenced youto 30 and then you're Yes.
Well, they actually sensed me to60.
60, and you had to do 30, but Ihad to do 30.
But then I, I wanted to turnthat into more.
I thought going in, I had thementality is I'm gonna make my
(11:49):
mark on the world right here.
I'm gonna be hee, I'm gonna bethis, I'm gonna mean something.
I'm gonna value this.
I'm gonna value that.
Cats are gonna see where I'm.
Cut from a different, all themweird, sick, um, hurtful
thoughts that you're trying toize into.
Like, you mean something or youvalue you're valuable and the
(12:11):
reality you're broken.
Hmm.
I was a broken boy in the cells.
Um, and I, I use this as a jokeand it's funny, I'm, you know,
I'm, I'm tearing up at, at um,um, too soft, not too soft.
The little puppy show on AnimalPlanet, you know, I'm seeing.
A little puppy show and I'mlike, oh, this is so cute.
(12:32):
This is so great.
And then when the doors roll,I'm on the gallery and I gotta
be a killer.
I gotta be a gorilla.
Something doesn't jive with thisman.
So that was going on in the btathat was going on in the joint,
brother.
I'm like, what am I doing, man?
Why?
And this is one of the turningpoints, and I'm not even
exaggerating, brother, what Godhas delivered me from.
(12:54):
And, uh, you know, I'm, I'mpicking up the phone and I'm
trying to pick up the pieces.
Of the lives that I destroyedand resemble some type of
normalcy, brother.
So I'm on the phone with my kidsand I'm trying to be dad.
You know, listen to mom, eatyour vegetables, do your
schoolwork.
Don't do this, don't do that.
(13:16):
And I'm hanging up the phone andI'm plotting murder.
And I remember that this isreally how the Pinta is brother.
And then I'm being, I'm beingcritical towards staff.
As well as police andpoliticians, when we myself,
have done horrific things in thecommunity, while ignoring all
(13:38):
them things that I've done,something had to change.
Something had to change.
Something's going on with me.
I hung that phone up and I'mwalking the prison.
I'm like, the heck is wrong withme, man, the heck is wrong.
What is going on?
Make a long story short.
Praise God.
(13:58):
Uh.
You know, we look at stoolpigeons in the community as
rotten, horrible, whatever, andwe forget at times in the joint,
um, you know, we think we canrape, murder and pillage the
community and there'd be noconsequences.
I mean, that's how I lived.
Yeah.
I didn't think the police shoulddo their job.
(14:18):
I mean, brother, I'm out hereliterally trying to hurt people
on a daily basis, and the policecome around and they're the ones
who I, I, I point to a, they're,they're the bad guys Kidding.
These are the ones doing thewrong things in the community.
Me, I, I, I'm a revolutionaryfighter.
I, I'm, I'm, I, I, I'm a mob.
(14:39):
I'm, I'm an organization.
I'm trying to do something andthe reality is I'm trying to
kill myself and others.
Omar (14:45):
Yup
Paul (14:46):
And, and slowly it was happening, and it was doing, and
some of it a little more quicklythan others, because as a kid
you're trying to do adult thingsand them adult things mean, um,
that you're gonna do.
Things that only governmentstell you to go do.
God doesn't tell you go killpeople.
(15:07):
People are not telling otherpeople go kill each other.
But you get involved in thatlifestyle, man, and that's what
they're asking.
We're asking you to be this.
And so it picks up in the jointand I pick the mandle up and as
I'm going through and hangingthe phone up with my kids and
I'm being this sick, evil man,um, as I'm.
(15:29):
Plotting, uh, and we dislikestool pigeons.
Um, to be honest, they were partof, they were part of the
solution brother.
Omar (15:37):
And
Paul (15:37):
in what sense?
They, they went to theadministration and told on me,
brother what I was plotting.
And before anything can happen,look how great God is.
God protects the innocent andthe guilty, the innocent who I
was going to get and the guiltyof me.
And so they grabbed me and putme away in a supermax for 13
years.
But, and the.
(15:59):
The court system had to get usout.
We'd have still been there.
We'd have still been there.
So as I'm there and I'm, I'mtrying to figure it out,
brother.
I'm angry at everything.
Isolation, brother is the flatout.
It's the dismantling of thehuman.
(16:19):
So systems and people, um, uh,governments and people who are
in authority, they use these,uh, methods to try to control a.
Person and, and some of that weunderstand if I'm out trying to
harm staff and other people, weunderstand that.
I understand that.
But when you're heavily investedin all the wrong things in the,
(16:44):
in that lifestyle, um, again,you think you, you're a freedom
fighter.
You think you're fighting forsome type of cause.
Correct.
And so I'm trying to reconcilethat.
What's interesting is.
Our kids never see us that way,brother.
I started to see that dynamicwith my kids.
I was, I was the best thing thathappened to my kids since life
(17:07):
spread.
My baby girls the way theylooked at me and, and my two
girls, I, I was in a, therelationship and she had the two
girls already, but they know meas dad point blank period.
But they know their other fatherand I was trying to never let
them be angry at him and, no,no, no.
He's got issues.
Try to, my, my daughters weren'thaving none of that.
(17:28):
No.
No, no, no.
Your dad, period.
So what I mean is they neverseen me like the rest of the
world see me.
So I'm trying to reconcile howcan they love, can you imagine
how they must have felt?
How do they reconcile that Dadis this warm, loving person all
while he's killing people?
(17:50):
Imagine all the conversations Ihad to have with the kids
because their moral compass isbeing structured as they're
growing up.
So.
Dad is telling them these arethe right things, why dad has
done horrific things.
Imagine how they're trying toreconcile that brother.
Well, I'm trying to reconcilethat in a supermax joint where
(18:11):
all I'm all in on the mob at thesame time, all this being all in
is wrong.
Yeah.
It's the devil's playground.
I, I'm, I'm, I'm promoting itlike it's something good when
it's destroying and killinglives, so.
Make a long story short, how didJesus Christ say my life?
(18:31):
Yeah.
How did that happen, brother?
So I'm trying to get the rightBible brother, um, to read.
I know Jesus is the answer.
Go ahead.
Omar (18:41):
Okay.
Uh, uh, prior to that, uh, theright Bible, you already had a
Bible.
Paul (18:45):
Yeah.
But, but it's just the Bible,the study Bible, I believe,
especially for people who arejust getting to know the Lord,
is, is, is an essential tool tohave.
Yeah.
Because if you don't understandwhat the scripture says.
As the, the, um, the people thatobviously have invested time in
studying the word of God havewhat it says right there.
(19:06):
Yeah.
So, um, I needed a study Biblebrother, so I can understand
what I'm reading.
And before this,
Omar (19:13):
uh, at that moment, what, what does, um, what role does
faith play in your life growingup?
Was your church?
Almost none.
None?
Okay.
Paul (19:22):
Almost none.
I mean, I went past the churchand would cross myself.
Yeah.
Like good Catholics do.
Okay.
Even though I rarely seen aCatholic church.
Um, I didn't even know whatbeing Catholic men, I just knew
we needed to do this because,you know, I grew up in the
community of, of mostlyobviously, uh, LAA brother.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's where I grew up with.
And so that's the staple.
(19:43):
And so as I'm growing up, I'mlike, oh, alright.
This is what a Catholic does.
Okay.
We go to church on.
No faith.
No, no.
Yeah.
Nothing to do with it.
So I'm in the SupermaxPenitentiary.
I've been there for some years.
I'm having night sweats.
I'm having terror, night sweats,and I'm in Terror Brother
because, um, you know,regulating your temperature when
(20:06):
you're sleeping is vital to mebecause I started to realize I
sleep hot.
But if I don't have somethingcool or the room be a cooler,
that it starts to trigger baddreams and then I start to
sweat, like.
Like a madman.
And I was in it during thatperiod, meaning I was really in
it, brother.
I was really, my spirit wasreally in turmoil, brother of
(20:27):
what I'd done, uh, and, and thelives I took brother.
And that really, really hurt me.
Like, it's hard to put intowords what that does, brother.
When you think about the person,uh, that you took his life and
their kids and what they don'thave anymore.
Um, brother, I.
(20:48):
I was in pain.
Uh, and then you're in painabout all that's been done to
you and you're in pain about allthat you've done.
So you need a savior who gets usout of this mess, brother.
And I knew Jesus was the answer,but I was searching for other
things.
Um, philosophy and all thesedifferent things that you go
through Buddhism, and I knewnone of them.
(21:10):
Feel me, brother?
Uh, is there wisdom there?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
But none of them feel me,brother.
'cause none of'em, none of'em.
Have Jesus Christ.
Amen.
And Jesus Christ, uh, redeemedus brother redemption is only
through Christ.
Amen.
And so as I started to searchand read the Word of God,
(21:30):
brother, and, and I've told thisstory so many times, I love
telling it.
And as I'm, I'm reading the wordof God.
I'm putting the word of God awayfor the day, and I'm going back
to sit in the bed and man,brother, the word is still here.
The book's there, but I'm, I'mhungering for him.
I'm hungering for him.
A way that I find it abnormaland how do I, how do I put it?
(21:53):
Have you ever like doneschoolwork or any type of work
and you're really enthusiasticabout what you're doing?
You are enthusiastic becauseyou're seeing the fruits of your
labor and you're understandingwhat you're reading.
There could be a component thereabout, uh, the word of God, but
this was different.
This was more brother.
This was almost like a callingon my spirit brother.
(22:17):
And so.
As I'm putting the Bible awayfor the day, it's still with me
and when I'm reading, so I, I'llpick it up from time to time
throughout the day.
Again, man, that man, this man,and I'm in the Old Testament.
I started at Genesis brother, soI'm reading more and more and
more, brother.
I'm reading chapters, the Moreand More Brother, um, that yeah,
(22:40):
something's happening, brother.
I don't know where I was in theBible.
It was still the Old Testament,one of the five books of the
beginning.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Five books and, uh, and as I amhungry and putting it to the
side, um, I could tell you thisis my 15th year serving Jesus
(23:02):
Christ this month right here.
So it's March, April.
I, I, I've been reading the wordof God for a while, brother.
Um, and I actually started in10, 11.
I came to the Lord, I started in10 and, uh.
Hey, brother.
I walked.
I don't even realize I was doingit, Omar.
(23:23):
I know This's gonna sound crazy,brother.
I'm doing it, but it's not medoing it.
I, I, there wasn't a consciouschoice.
I got up that morning.
I said, I'm going to do thistoday.
I'm gonna do this today.
I'm gonna give my life to JesusChrist.
It wasn't like that, brother.
This was overwhelming compulsionby someone other than me.
(23:44):
Amen.
Jesus was at the helm, right.
This moment, and I mean,brother, it was a overwhelming
compulsion, but in a calm sense,it wasn't like, oh man, I'm
gonna do this.
I'm gonna do that.
I got on my knees at the end ofmy, um, at my bed.
Uh, I accepted Jesus Christ asmy Lord and Savior, and uh, and
(24:06):
I repented from my sins.
Seriously, brother.
That's the difference.
When you repent, if you repentseriously and wholeheartedly,
God honors that.
That's the repentance he'slooking for.
The dropping of pride, thedropping of ego, putting your
face to the ground and tellingGod, I am filthy.
(24:26):
Help me.
Jesus, please help me.
Once I really did that, brother,I'm not lying, Omar.
I got on the edge of my bed andI stood up and as I stood up, I
was like, what is going on?
What is going on?
What is going on?
I'm standing in the middle ofthis cell in Tams, in the
(24:47):
Supermax.
Grabbing my chest and my, mybody, and I'm doing exactly what
I'm doing with you brother,right here, standing up.
What is happening?
What, what's going on?
What's, I knew instantly I wasrestored them.
Hmm.
How did I know I was restoredwithout a shadow of a doubt.
When I took another man's lifein a very intentional and
(25:09):
premeditated way, brother, um,something happened there, there
was a transferring over of myspirit to the evil one.
I felt it.
I knew it and the minute I gotwith somebody that I was close
with, I told him, Hey brother,something happened.
Something happened here, righthere, brother.
I'm letting you know this is me.
(25:30):
Not something happened here, andthen you go about your day the
next day, but it's on your mind.
Well, why do I feel different?
Why do I feel different beyondanything I've felt in this
realm?
Brother, fast forward all theseyears later, brother.
2011, I'm in.
Supermax and I stand up brotherafter giving my heart to Jesus
(25:52):
Christ, and he saves my life andchanges my life instantaneously.
The sanctifying process, as youknow, brother, it's a walkout
process.
It's a lifelong process.
It just doesn't happen.
In some cases it does.
Yeah.
You come to the Lord and otherbrothers can talk about
cigarettes, alcohol, drugs,swearing, womanizing.
(26:13):
They can name off everythingthat they stopped and God
removed from them for.
The most part, most people thatare devout has given their lives
to Jesus Christ.
It's a walkout process.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it, and it's a long process,you know, we're, what can I tell
you?
From day one to the eighth yearI was in Yeah, brother, a lot of
(26:34):
mold against shape going on,just like today.
Omar (26:36):
Could I ask you, I know you were, you were in Tams at
that when you gave your life,now when you left Thas,
obviously you're in Tams byyourself.
Yeah.
Now.
How was that transition?
Like, did you walk away from themob?
Did you, were you a believer?
How
Paul (26:51):
does that look?
Yeah, absolutely brother.
Um, great question is, uh, thereality is when you, when I'm,
when I'm in there, mind you, Ididn't tell you that the year
before I came to the Lord.
The year that, that's, I'mtalking about and I'm traveling,
uh, through that, I get a letterfrom my father the next two
(27:13):
weeks.
Telling me that he's dying frompancreatic cancer.
The only man who's ever lovedme, brother, I was adopted based
on the state finally taking meout of the, uh, excuse me, out
of the house of the, my abusedparents.
Um, and so they had thiskangaroo court, um, or system in
place that you go to every year.
(27:35):
They're not, they're not lettingyou leave, but then the court
system ruled due processviolation of federal courts.
And so they had to align with.
With the decisions of the judge,of the federal judge.
So they put the court back in orthe hearing, and now they're
actually giving you anopportunity to leave.
And so I went there, um, afterthe director, deputy director
(27:56):
told me, you're doing all theseprograms, meaning while you're
in tams you can do paperwork,anger management and other
things.
So I started to do that,brother, and that was, that was
the beginning of my journey onallowing God to improve my life,
to really get me to where hecreated me to be.
Be not Paul, all thedysfunction.
I didn't know my timetables intomy thirties.
(28:19):
Um, I was uneducated, brother.
I didn't know brother.
Once I started to truly, trulygive my life to Christ,
everything changed.
So I get out and you can imagineI've been isolated.
All of us are together now.
The ones who've gotten out onthis trip, there's like 13, 15
of us and we're all, we're allon Old Death Road in Pontiac.
(28:44):
And as we're there, we'reinteracting with each other and
we're sharing stories and thingsand the effects of what's
happening right now.
And one of the effects, we allimmediately got sick.
'cause we ain't been aroundsociety to bound drugs for
anything.
Yeah.
We all got sick and we allcraved to go back for the most
part because you're so ingrainedwith the isolation as part of
(29:10):
you that your mind starts toplay tricks on you, brother.
I.
Equated a little bit like when Isee the brothers headed into,
um, headed back into prison,brother.
I ran across the prison, uh, abrother who came outta prison,
um, and we're having adiscussion and brother, he, I'm
(29:32):
ready to go back.
I'm, and I had to talk him offthe ledge.
I equated with that a littlebit, brother, and even though I
know I didn't want to go back,my body, my system was craving
to go back.
So we had to.
A nine month program in sixmonths in Pontiac and three
months in Menard preparing us tobe released back into
population.
'cause we've been separated solong.
(29:52):
And it's a step down program,that's what it's called.
And uh, and we're, we're firston the yard together and then
once we get to men Menards, sixmonths later we are on the yard
together.
And so that was a heck of aexperience because all of us
together were finally able toshoot ball.
We almost broke each other bonesand we're all wild and crazy
with the energy Yeah.
(30:13):
Of being cooped up.
All them years and we got out,and I'll be honest, brother.
Yeah.
I left the mob.
Absolutely, brother.
I gave my life to Jesus Christthat, that, that was a wrap.
You can't play both sides of thefence.
You're either all in on thelight or not.
Yeah.
And so I understand that can bedifficult and there's a process,
(30:33):
but the reality is, is that ifI'm preaching the gospel of
Jesus Christ and then I'msharpening the shank in the cell
to get at another guy that Ifeel.
Separate than the the mob or thegang.
I'm, come on man.
That ain't Christlike.
Yeah, that ain't Christlike.
Omar (30:50):
Definitely gotta be a shift there.
Amen.
so you're in there, you know,you, you, you get out of Tam's
back in population.
Uh, can you tell us how youended up out here?
Kewanee
Paul (30:58):
Absolutely, brother.
So I went to a fewpenitentiaries, one the
immediate Menard, and I'm still,um, I'm serving God left, all
that behind, um, uh, active inthe church as much as you
possibly can during that time,um, and getting to Wan's heart.
So I actually.
Uh, we had to write an essay.
We had to ask some questionsthrough the, through the grace
of God, man, I, I landed inKewanee and it is, praise God
(31:21):
that I got there.
But little did I know God had aplan in place.
So obviously I'm doing my thingin the joint, but I'm, I'm, I'm
taking all these programs.
I'm, I'm a mentor for LewisUniversity.
The students there for 10 yearsin Romeoville before Keane.
Uh, we get to Keane.
We have a program that we'redoing over Zoom with the
juveniles in St.
(31:41):
Charles.
Um, we're doing.
In all these programs, and meand Ronnie obviously are, are,
are hand in hand, um, includingchurch.
Um, we had to kinda shape thechurch and the image of Jesus
Christ rather thanself-promotion.
Um, so that took a lot ofdifficult, hard work with, uh,
telling people that they have tokind of sit down or step aside.
(32:04):
And so, but we got it to where,um, it, it reflected Jesus
Christ and the word of God wasat the center of what we were
doing.
And at the same time.
Um, heritage Church was thefirst one outta Rock Island to
come in and Chris and Mike Wexelthat would come in on a separate
day, even when the juvenileswere there.
'cause this used to be ajuvenile facility.
(32:26):
And, um, and they left.
And Hill Church, which we arecurrently at right now, doing
this interview, um, they came inbecause the chaplain there is
from Hill Church.
So they started to come in and,and obviously, um, your audience
will get to know some of themand.
Including Bennett, who is theyouth pastor right now, and they
(32:47):
came into the facility and andloved on us.
Brother worshiped, the Lord,loved on us.
We developed unbelievablerelationships and so I'm about
less than a month out brother.
It's December 22nd, it's 2023,and my director Ben Andres is
(33:07):
there delivering pizzas withHeritage Church and some other
people from the community that.
Um, are from Hill Church andfirst Christian and stuff.
And, uh, he hears me ministeringto the warden.
I'm having a long conversationwith James Caruthers and, and
we're doing our thing, brother,and, and we're talking about
Jesus Christ and what he can doand, and he solves all the
(33:29):
social problems we have and soon and so forth.
And Ben asked me, do you haveafterwards, he asked me, do you
have a job?
And I says, not currently, butI'm looking for a job, you know?
And, uh, he then says, uh, gimmea call.
So.
Absolutely.
A week and a half later, I'msitting at a coffee shop in town
and I'm sitting across from Benand we're having a conversation.
(33:50):
He tells me about heavymachinery and that he can train
me on his farm and so on and soforth.
And then he's like, or, um, youknow, I have this nonprofit, and
I'm like, tell me about thenonprofit.
He starts telling me, he says,well, um, years ago I hired a,
um, ex-con, um, and I wasintrigued by the lack of support
(34:11):
that he had or, or opportunity,um.
And so he provided anopportunity through his company.
Uh, he started to work'em andeverything was working smooth,
but it got him to thinking,where do men go when they get
out of prison?
How do we keep them from therecidivism rate going in and
out?
How do we keep them from makingthem sane, poor choices or bad
(34:35):
choices?
Um, and so that started him on ajourney of of of, of being a
prayer warrior to God act.
Asking God is this his hand?
And so finally he got obviouslythe message from the Lord and
through his obedience, thatmeeting at the coffee shop and
him preparing financially forthat, um, was materializing
(35:00):
right before his eyes.
And so after he hired me, um,two months later I became the
programs manager, which I amright now of Finn Well
Ministries and our primary, uh,reason for existing.
Is helping the men that come outof prison, what does that look
like, brother?
Um, if they need housing, wehave a house that we put them
in, brother.
(35:21):
Um, we want to take care of allthe material things that any man
needs when he first comes out.
Absolutely, brother.
Uh, we want to get them a job.
We want to provide fortransportation.
We want to provide housing forthem.
But to be honest, brother, allthem things are easily done.
Um, we, we want these brothers.
(35:44):
Us to be healed.
Amen.
We want to love on thesebrothers.
It's personal for us.
Uh, a man who's never knownprison was obedient to God and
God gave him the mission.
He in turn gave us the keys forus to help us.
Amen.
So you can make this up.
(36:04):
I'm gonna tell you this partthat I kept out a month prior to
me getting out the program thatwe bring to the, um, to the
institution, which is called uhuh.
Foundational rhythms, and it'sthrough Cliff and Sue Parish.
Um, we, me and Ronnie broughtthem down there, and as we bring
them down there in thiscurriculum, it's a 16 week
(36:24):
course.
Um, four week, uh, four courses.
I finally, at the end, I finishit, I, um, I do the Shark Tank
nine business people.
It was either seven, it wasseven business people and nine
of us.
Well, I took first place get,guess what I took first place
in?
What was that nonprofit?
(36:46):
You can't make this stuff up.
And Mike, who is ourconstruction manager, who
doesn't, it doesn't entail histitle, doesn't entail how
valuable he is to our ministrybrother.
He disciples the men on a dailybasis, brother, because we bring
some men in to work in ourconstruction part because we
have buildings that we're tryingto get ready for the men and
(37:09):
Mike deals with the day to day.
I'm in tune with everything thatgoes on.
On, but obviously my jobencompasses so many different
things within the ministry thatmy wheelhouse is not carpentry.
Yeah.
Even though I've been there tohelp the majority of the
brothers do all that.
And then I come and I haveconversations with the man,
(37:29):
including once a week and sitdown and we go through life
skill program that we have,which I just talked about.
Yeah.
Which is foundations for life.
Again, brother, we're findingmen are more in.
Need of, of not just thattender, loving ear and shoulder,
(37:51):
um, but they also need to bewalked through some basic things
in life, but in the right way,brother, where they don't feel
marginalized, so they don't feellike this is a chore to you, or
this is a duty to you.
That you're doing it out ofbrotherhood, that you're doing
it out of the love of Christ.
(38:12):
Remember, most of the brothersand sisters.
Who come out of the joint.
We don't know this type of love,brother.
Right.
You know that we don't get thistype of love.
So, so when I hear people angryat me about what other brothers
are doing that are in theprogram that are not lining up
perfectly with the standard, itdoesn't mean this is the no
(38:32):
shuck in the jive of ministry.
If you're serious about yoursuccess, we're serious about the
help.
But if you're playing games,yeah, no, we don't have time for
that.
Right?
We got a host of brothers.
We need to make sure that they.
Land, not just successfully, butthrive in what we talked about.
So when people start telling me,you know, they're doing this and
they're not right and they'redoing this, I says, so if we
(38:55):
don't show the love and graceand mercy of God, who does, if
people who love Jesus Christdoes not show grace.
And a matter of fact, when youstart to talk to Pastor Bennett,
we had these conversations aswell about a specific
individual.
That's not to mean we're notgonna help'em get what they
need.
Need to get and reach thesestandards.
(39:17):
But I find it amazing whetherit's a single mother with three
kids where, and she's made poorchoices and been with, uh, poor
men, um, that are broken.
Um, I hear these comments, thesethese real grand statements by
people.
Yeah.
Well, if they don't and theybetter do the, and I agree with
(39:38):
that, but where's the grace?
Yeah.
Where's the love?
So our minute.
Street brother.
Um, and as long as I'm here,it's gonna be very big on the
grace of God.
Omar (39:49):
Hmm.
Paul (39:49):
Amen.
It's gonna be very big on thegrace of God.
And I push the men that I'maround, I push them, I call them
out.
I hold them accountable to whatthey do and don't do.
Um, at the same time, um, I sitthere and talk to'em when
they're crying or they'redealing with issues or that we
need to take'em to a counselorthat deals with unresolved
(40:13):
issues that I'm.
Ill-equipped to deal with, Icould give you all the love in
the world, brother, but I didn'tgo to school for that.
Yeah.
And, and we have a woman of Godon Staff Brother.
Um, she has her own business,but she's a counselor that helps
with the men that are dealingwith whatever issue they're
dealing with, including detoxcenters, including drug
(40:35):
treatment centers, including,uh, um, teen and adult
challenge, including pathway.
These are all researchers, aBridgeway here in town.
Um, these are all resourcesthat, that I've tried to
cultivate over the year thatwe've been in existence that is
strictly for one reason and onereason only to help these men.
(40:58):
Everything we do is about helpthe men.
Now, don't get me wrong, basedon, and this is why I love my
director, this man is stompeddown for Jesus Christ, brother.
Um, we we're, we areunbelievably close, uh, because.
Um, the criteria is you loveJesus Christ, so I'm gonna be
close to you.
(41:19):
You're on mission.
Yeah.
You're on mission for thekingdom of God.
We're down.
We're gonna be rocking, we'regonna be together, we're gonna
move, we're gonna do all that wecan because what the interesting
part of me coming home and Iused to tell brothers on the
inside, especially olderbrothers, that've been gone a
long time.
Brother, I'm, I really don'tgrab the concept of you coming
home and not having that samefire for the.
(41:44):
Kingdom of God for Jesus Christ,brother.
And that doing something aboutit, um, because when I was all
in for the wrong things, I wasall in.
Now I'm not all in for Jesus.
You have to be all in.
That's right.
And that doesn't mean you don'tcome with the flaws and you make
mistakes.
Absolutely.
But step up and step into thelight.
Omar (42:02):
Amen.
Paul (42:03):
So we want men to reflect all the good things that God is
doing for their lives and themrecognizing that, how do you
break them chains.
I'm gonna tell you a quickstory.
Tied in and we can, we can endbrother and, and I'll show you
how this applies to all of us.
So I cheated on a test before Icame home.
The department gave the test.
(42:24):
I cheated on the test.
It would've got me six months,brother.
I'm a devout man of God.
I'm, I'm, I'm moving in thejoint brother.
And everybody sees me that way,brother, because I don't come
outside them lines.
I don't hang into groups.
I don't do all them things,brother.
I'm a righteous man of God thatdid all the wrong things.
So I can go home and I cheatedon that test brother and I got
(42:48):
caught and the minute EternalAffairs brought it to me,
brother, the minute they broughtit to me, I said, absolutely.
That's my writing.
Absolutely.
I did that.
Absolutely.
And then I got up and I went toall the other department, some
of them in tears.
I did this, I'm out of pocketand there's no excuse.
(43:09):
And brother, the way it scorchedthe landscape and the
penitentiary.
Street brother, because Paul wasthe devout man of God.
Paul was helping lead thechurch.
Paul is one of the men thatdon't come off his love for
Christ, and he did what?
Hey brother.
I had Christians not wanting totalk to me.
(43:31):
Now that's stemmed the work outwith Jesus Christ.
Yeah.
My job was to truly repent,which I did accept ownership of
what I did.
Step up and step into the lightand then learn.
In everything I possibly canfrom it, and me and Mike still
feed off that.
How do we still feed off thatbrother?
(43:51):
Brother Omar, I'm not lying toyou, brother.
I thank God for them extra sixmonths in the joint.
I thank God for being caught.
I thank God for being sent tothe supermax and two men telling
on me.
I thank God for them thingsbecause we don't see the hand of
God in them moments.
But the reality is that Romans 828 says, and we know that God
(44:12):
causes everything to worktogether for the.
The good of those who love Godand called according to his
purpose.
I was still called by God in mycheating.
I was still loved by God in mycheating, but I don't get to
pick the consequences.
Just like David didn't get topick the consequences.
And when God and the prophetNathan came to him and
(44:32):
confronted him on his sin, andwhat did he do?
He stepped up and stepped in.
Not initially.
You bring me in and I swear byson now he'll die.
It's you that.
Had one lesson, brother cominghome prevented me from cutting
corners.
Yeah.
Preventing me from cheating thesystem.
There's always a system.
(44:53):
Look at, look at, um, public aidas a perfect example.
You know, we get the card whenwe first come home, brother.
We were done our six months.
Now you could rock that boy aslong as you want.
As long as you lie, as long asyou cheat.
And we'll promote that.
We'll promote it like we'redoing something, you know,
honorable.
(45:14):
Man, man, I'm gonna get thiscard.
And I did that.
And all the, I'm gonna get SSI,I'm gonna do, I've seen all the
paperwork.
I know what's up.
I know what the government givesor don't give, and the things
you have to work for to getthem.
And then you have to lie there'sbeen so many times that me,
Mike, and the rest of thebrothers have seen, um, we
(45:35):
didn't take advantage of thesystem.
Hmm.
We didn't take the easy route.
Um, trust God, um, work hard, bepatient, God, honor that.
Amen.
And he has.
And he has.
So that one choice I made thatwas ungodly how God used that
brother to not only mold andshaped me, but the effects of
(45:59):
that and the deposits that Iwould make on that, long after
that lesson or the lessonproviding for me all the way.
Through my walk with him, um,has benefited us tenfold.
Brother has benefited ustenfold.
So my point being is, is that Iknow it's difficult.
I walk this walk every day,brother.
(46:21):
I'm in it every single day.
I know it's hard, brother.
It's more hard a year that I'mout than it was the first six
months.
We have a meeting every twoweeks.
Our ministry, we're in constantconversation every day.
Um, and the people that arearound me in this.
Church that you'll find out andthe more people you interview
for this community has beenoutstanding, brother, open arms
(46:44):
like you wouldn't believe.
We don't get the same backlashlike other people get in the
city.
Not this town, not these people.
Not Hill Church, not firstChristian.
These men and women in thiscommunity as opened their arms
like I've never seen, I sit inthe kitchen and eat dinner
somewhat frequently to a exstate cop.
(47:07):
And his wife and know his familyand love them and their
grandkids, and they treat melike their son, brother.
They treat me like their familybrother like you wouldn't
believe brother.
Not just me, but the brothers.
The brothers, everyone we bringin, they bring open arms, warmth
(47:30):
and love of Christ like I'venever seen in my life.
Omar, our ministry.
I'm gonna put this in anutshell.
Our ministry brother, a man getsout and he has a hard time of
getting an id and he has allthese things.
So we offer him the house tostay at'cause he's homeless.
(47:51):
And we also let him know thatthe DMV accepts our place as a
home body spot.
So you could get your id.
Make a long story short, he gothis id, we're driving in the car
after a year, not being able toget it, being homeless and all
these other things.
He's driving.
He's working now.
He's doing all these greatthings.
He called me the other day too,and as we're driving, you know
(48:12):
what he told me, brother?
And, and Mike, he said, man,brother, you, you bring hope.
Our ministry is a ministry ofhope, brother.
Amen.
The hope of Jesus Christ.
Point blank period.
And if we're not giving that tomen, we're not giving that to
the community.
'cause we help, I'm a youthsponsor at church every Sunday.
(48:36):
Um, I go into.
This field school right here inthe grade school, in the high
school and mentor the studentsand, and counsel them once a
week.
Um, yeah, brother.
We're trying to prevent thisrevolving door.
Amen.
But why we're trying to preventit.
We're not vilifying the peoplethat are in prison.
We're trying to get society tounderstand is that you can't
(48:58):
ignore sex offenders justbecause you dislike their crime.
We've bought a building just sowe can house them there because
we.
Have a difficult time.
These brothers who are comingout who make horrific choices
and bad choices.
Okay, now what?
Now what?
People forget that, well, we'lltake that responsibility on
(49:21):
Jesus Christ has called usBrother.
Amen.
And hopefully we're answeringevery day, brother.
Um,
Omar (49:27):
man.
No, it sounds like you guys aredoing tremendous work out here,
man.
And I've seen that firsthand.
You mentioned the families, thelove.
Amen.
Man, that's, that's awesome tohear, man.
Amen.
So.
And any, any final words and,uh, just one.
Go ahead.
No, I was gonna ask you, do youguys, uh, is there a way people
could I, uh, I know you theministry Yeah.
That where they could, uh, so,or you know what I'm saying?
Paul (49:47):
Yeah.
Listen, uh, if you need tocontact the ministry and see if,
uh, if you're a good foot, wehave paperwork.
Just like any, uh, uh, um, St.
Leonard's.
St.
Leonard's has paperwork.
We have paperwork too.
We expect you to meet theexpectations you agreed to.
We're not gonna tell you whatour stand.
Uh, we're looking for you tohonor the things that bear the
(50:13):
right fruit.
And the only way you do that, ifyou do it, that's their choice
to do.
Yeah.
That's their job to do.
But we'll support you every waywe can.
So if you need to get a licenseand that's one of your
responsibilities, Hey Paul, Ineed to get a license.
Alright, let's run.
Hey, I need a job.
Okay, come on.
(50:33):
I'll take you to all the, weexpect you to put.
Skin in the game because this isyour life.
But where you can contact us atand see if this is something you
would like to land at and buildfrom here.
Um, my number's(309) 502-2223.
Call me anytime.
Gotcha.
Leave a message.
Lemme say this, Omar.
(50:53):
Praise God for what you'redoing, brother.
Praise God.
You're bringing a light brotherto where most people want to
ignore.
Omar (50:59):
Hmm.
Paul (51:00):
Um, you're bringing hope, um, not just to the brothers
that you interviewed.
Who, but to the greater good ofhumanity, brother.
Um, this is a service to thekingdom as well.
I appreciate brother, the inviteand you traveling down here and
giving me your time as well asthe other people that you'll
interview.
Brother.
(51:20):
Uh, thank you brother.
Omar (51:21):
No, no.
Yeah, for sure.
You know, you know about one ofmy saints is if it's of God,
it's of me.
Paul (51:27):
Amen.
Omar (51:28):
Amen.
Like, if it's to bring glory toGod.
Amen.
If it's to man, uh, highlight,you know Jesus, man, what he's
doing in people's lives, man,I'm all for it, man.
At me just driving two and ahalf hours to Kiwan in my head,
I'm here.
Yeah.
You know, Ronnie's been tellingme about this.
I'm like, man, I told Ronnie,Hey, whenever you're ready, you
just let me know and I'm there,man.
Pack up my little bags and we'reout here.
But you know what, brother?
Thank you for your time.
(51:49):
Amen.
Thank you for sharing your storywith us.
I always ask our guests if theycould close us out on the
prayer.
Paul (51:52):
Amen brother.
I appreciate that brother.
Um, Thank you Father.
Thank you for this moment, Lord,for everybody that's in this
room and everybody who sees thisand hears this, hear them as
well.
Lord, hear their petitions atnight, Lord, as they send them
up to you in the still of thenight when nobody's around,
(52:14):
Lord, that's when faith is thepurists, isn't it?
Father, when we reach out.
Out to you in need when we knowyou're the answer, father, that
we run to you, that we throw ourface to the ground, that we tell
you Lord, that we need you.
We do each and every day.
Father, every second.
Thank you for brother Omar andRonnie and for coming down here
(52:37):
Lord and giving us the abilityto glorify you, Lord, and
continue your work and tohighlight the ministry, brother
and and to the things that we'redoing.
Thank you, father.
Thank you for all you do.
Father, thank you for the nextbreath that we'll all take,
Lord.
Lord, it continues to mold andshape us in your image, Lord, in
your son's image, in JesusChrist's name we pray.
Amen.
Omar (52:57):
Amen.
Amen.
The thank you for joining me,brother.
And with that, we're gonna getready to wrap up.
Uh, Matthew four 16 reads, thepeople who sat in darkness have
seen a great light and uponthose who sat in the region and
shadow of death light has dawnedalongside my guest, Paul.
My name's Omar Calvillo, and weare wrong too strong.
Amen.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!