August 29, 2024 • 31 mins
Can you imagine a world where nearly half of all households have women as primary earners? Today, we explore the transformative impact of women, especially women of color, stepping into the role of breadwinners. Join Vanessa and Shay as they discuss the role of education in empowering women to achieve career success and challenge traditional stereotypes. Through personal anecdotes and cultural references, such as the hit show "House of Dragon," we illustrate how women are redefining family dynamics and leadership roles, all while managing their faith and family life.
We'll also examine the evolving dynamics of household responsibilities in families where women are the primary earners. The discussion highlights the importance of sharing domestic duties equitably and the challenges women face in recognizing when to ask for help. We touch on changing family structures, including same-sex couples, single adults, and DINK households, and how societal shifts, such as economic pressures, are leading more adults to live at home longer. This segment underscores the complex landscape of modern family life and the necessity of open communication between partners to maintain a balanced household.
Finally, we explore the intersection of culinary traditions and family dynamics, sharing personal experiences about how a partner's passion for cooking can influence household roles. We discuss the importance of defining roles within relationships, the impact of religious beliefs on gender expectations, and the crucial need for self-care for women juggling multiple responsibilities. This episode offers a comprehensive look at the evolving roles of women in both professional and personal spheres, emphasizing the ongoing journey towards greater gender equality in financial stewardship and household management.
💸⛪🕍📿💵
Our podcast is proudly sponsored by Crusaders for Change, LLC (C4C) and hosted by our CEO and Founder, Mrs. Shay Cook. At C4C, we provide customized corporate financial wellness programs for businesses, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations. Our services are tailored to create happier, healthier, and more productive work environments. We also empower individuals and couples to overcome debt, improve their credit, boost savings, and more. Ready to learn more about how C4C can impact your life? Contact us today at https://www.crusaders4change.org/!
Schedule a Free 15-minute Clarity Call Today!
Comments, questions, or suggestions on topics? Email yahweh@crusaders4change.org
and follow us on:
Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn
Music by:
Lamonte Silver - Owner of essentialmusicclub.com | Previously by ROA - roa-music.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shay (00:03):
Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and money
come up?
You're not alone.
Welcome to Yahweh's Money, thepodcast where we tackle the
crossroads of faith and finance.
I'm Shay Cook, an AccreditedFinancial Counselor and the CEO
and founder of Crusaders forChange LLC.
Vanessa (00:20):
And I'm Vanessa McNelley, Accredited Financial
Counselor and COO of Crusadersfor Change.
Join us on our journey as wediscuss topics like tithing
saving and conquering debtthrough religious perspectives.
Let's get started.
Shay (00:35):
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Yahweh's
Money.
Hey, Vanessa, how are you today?
I am good.
How are you, Shay?
I'm excited to talk about womenas the breadwinner.
Oh my God, this is a hot,steamy, sexy topic that nobody
wants to talk about?
Vanessa (00:51):
I know Yep.
Shay (00:53):
So we're going to get into it, because today, Vanessa, I
will be talking about somethingthat has been shattering
traditional stereotypes andrefining the modern family
dynamic for years.
Yep, that's right Women asbreadwinners.
In fact, nearly which is crazy,this amount, 40% of households
in the US now have women asbread, as the primary earners,
(01:17):
and I have to add that thenumbers are slightly higher for
people of color.
Women of color.
I know I've talked to manyBlack and brown women and
they're like oh that's like 70%.
I'm like, yeah, I don't knowwhat the real number is.
I think I've seen 60, but it'spretty high.
So talk about change, frombalancing budgets to breaking
barriers.
We explore more how modernwomen are leading the way in
(01:38):
financial stewardship, all whilenavigating their faith and
family life.
So we love a Proverbs womanhere at Yahweh's money.
In fact, proverbs 31, 13 to 14says or tells us she selects
wool and flax and works witheager hands.
She is like the merchant shipsbringing her food from afar.
(02:00):
This passage describes theProverbs woman as someone who
not only provides her for herhousehold, it also shows her
involvement in financialdecision making and her
entrepreneur spirit.
Oh my God, that's a mouthful.
Vanessa (02:17):
It's a lot.
It sounds exhausting actually.
Shay (02:20):
Yeah, that part.
Vanessa (02:23):
Yeah, it really does.
It sounds like we have to beeverything to everyone, and I
know we've talked about thatbefore too, but what do you
think brought about this changefor women to become breadwinners
?
Shay (02:34):
That's a great question, I know.
When I started reading thisscript and preparing I thought
of House of Dragon with the twowomen One is taking care of her
son, who's the king, and on theother side, for those who watch
House of Dragon, the two womenlike one is taking care of her
son, who's the king, and on theother side for those who watch
House of Dragon, who watch Gameof Thrones, and you have this
king queen trying to become,excuse me, the queen of all the
(02:54):
lands or whatever.
I'm sure I'm messing up thereference, but even now in TV
and on in movies, women are justmore at the forefront.
In movies, women are just moreat the forefront.
So I don't know, it's wild.
I mean, I've always been sideby side with my husband.
I wouldn't say I've necessarilybeen the breadwinner in my
household, but I know a lot offamily friends, including single
(03:16):
mothers, including my husband'smother, have been and it's a
change.
That tide has been rising for along time and I don't know if
it's ever going to go back down.
Vanessa (03:25):
I agree.
I know in my household I'vebeen the breadwinner before and
I think it does.
It brings about this weirddynamic too, because I think a
lot of men feel threatened whenthat happens.
Some don't, which is wonderful,but it does.
It brings about this.
A lot of people don't know howto handle the change, I think,
when it comes down to it.
But I think one reason for thisis women are able to get more
(03:50):
education these days than theywere in the past, so I think
that's a huge thing.
I know my grandmother.
My grandmother had to quitschool in the third grade
because she had to stay at homeand help raise the other
children.
And if you think back from hergeneration to us now and the
ability to finish high school,to go to college to get a
(04:10):
master's degree, to go get adoctorate degree, that has
really changed in such a shortperiod of time it really has so
many women.
Shay (04:19):
I know they have multiple degrees, multiple certifications
and you even meet the womenthat are at home and not
breadwinners to have educationright.
So it's definitely attainable,more attainable than it's ever
been before, especially withonline and just all the
flexibility that universitiesand colleges offer.
So yay to women that aregetting all the education.
(04:39):
I would say sometimes women gettoo much education because then
they're they, they are, theyhave too much and now they can't
get.
I've seen women that can't geta job because they just have too
much on their resume.
Vanessa (04:49):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Especially when you have thatand let's say you stay at home
with your kids for a little bit,so you don't have that work
experience or relevant or timelywork experience, but you have
all the education, you kind ofget yourself in this place where
you're not really in a space tobe hired and it's really,
really hard.
So I guess finding that balanceis what we all want to do.
(05:11):
Yeah, and we do have anincrease of women who are
actually participating in a partof the workforce, and that's
something we didn't have in thepast.
A lot of women stayed at home,raised a family.
That's what we were kind oftaught to do back in that day.
I have cause I have twograndmothers, so my dad's mom
was very upset with me when Itold her I wanted to go to
(05:32):
college, because she thought awoman's place was in the home
and your job was to raise yourfamily, cook for your husband,
clean your house.
And I think it went back tothat's what she had wanted for
herself.
But she was a single mom ofthree, so she never got that.
Shay (05:51):
Yeah, and that's true.
I know I see women here in myfamily that they still have
those traditional roles and then, on top of the traditional
roles, if they get a job, theystill hold on to those
traditional roles, which I knowwe've talked about a lot, and
all the invisible work that'sstill involved in there and the
inequality between the man and awoman when it comes to the
(06:14):
shared roles, and that's anotherepisode.
But being the breadwinner, to behonest, vanessa, I don't know,
I don't have many women in myside of the family that were
breadwinners.
Most of them were thattraditional role taking care of
the child at home, taking careof children and taking care of
(06:34):
the household.
The man went out and got thebacon, brought the bacon home,
as they would say, or they gotjobs, like I said, and they
still maintain the household.
I think more on my husband'sside, because his mom was a
single mother and a lot of hisaunts they are single or
whatever the situation may be,they were.
So I guess it's all dependenton an era, the culture where
(06:56):
you're from, like many differentfactors.
Vanessa (06:58):
Oh yeah, totally yeah.
I know my mom worked more thanmy father worked, so she was
gone out of the house workingfrom gosh early morning to late
at night most days, and my dadwould go in three or four maybe
on a good day and he would stayuntil 11 or 12 if he felt like
it.
So it was a very differentdynamic in our household, even
(07:21):
though they owned businesses.
So essentially they made thesame amount.
But I know my mom worked a lotharder with things, yeah, and
we've had a lot of advancementstoo in gender equality, and I
will say we are not there yet.
Shay (07:36):
We are a long way from, because women still are in the
majority, like administrativeroles and stuff like that.
They're not in the roles ofleadership.
You know all that kind of stuff, yeah, they're not in the roles
of leadership.
You know all that kind of stuff, yeah.
Vanessa (07:47):
Well, there's still a pay gap.
I think there's a 16% pay gapstill between men and women
doing the same job.
And then if you think aboutgender equality through the ages
, just when women gain the rightto vote, not every woman gained
the right to vote at the sametime, exactly.
So it's been since the sixties,and that's not really that long
(08:07):
since women have been a part ofthis yeah.
Yeah, and then you know, there'sjust there's changing social
norms and gender roles and Idon't know about you, but I
still have this desire within meto be a woman, do things around
the house for my partner, likeI enjoy cooking dinner for them,
(08:30):
I enjoy cleaning the house.
It makes me feel like I'mcontributing in this way that I
don't know.
It's hard to explain.
I think it's just somethingthat's built into me and I know
most people don't have that.
But what about you?
How do you feel with?
Shay (08:45):
all that.
I just love the clean.
I don't think, as you know, I'mOCD, I'm a clean freak.
I just love a clean house.
So my family benefits from that.
My growing up, my family, mybrother and sister, mom and dad
benefited from that.
So I don't even know if that'sjust DNA or whatever.
So that's always been there,Like my house.
Everybody knows my house isgoing to be clean, Okay so.
(09:05):
But when it comes to cooking, Ijust recently fell in love with
cooking because it was a healthchoice.
It was like, with my familystarting with me, it's going to
be healthy, I need to cook.
And then, of course, came withthat was I'm saving money.
So y'all should definitely trythat out, you money, I mean.
(09:28):
Now, when I go in therefrigerator, I'm like man,
maybe I should order somethinglike no, I'm going to eat these
leftovers and then leftovers begood.
So I, you know.
So that's what I do.
But yeah, I know a lot of peoplethe same way that just feel
like I got to run my house, Igot to take care of it.
It's like but you're alsoworking, so you're exhausted,
(09:54):
right, when you're at the end ofthe day too, and all of that.
So there has to be somepartnering there when it comes
to especially women asbreadwinners.
We need to have a conversationwith our partners, with our
children.
You might have some othergenerational family members
living in the house.
We need to have a conversation.
If I'm going to be making themajority of your money like
somebody, there needs to be someequality there in the roles
that we play at home.
Vanessa (10:09):
Somebody.
There needs to be some equalitythere in the roles that we play
at home.
Agree, yeah, I know back in theday my ex-husband would not
help me with anything in thehome and he was raised in a
household where his motherworked, so I never really
understood it.
But at one point I had to sayto him either you help me with
these things around the housebecause I was working full time.
I was a full-time grad student.
I had a side hustle and I wasworking full-time.
(10:32):
I was a full-time grad student.
I had a side hustle and I wasstill expected to keep the house
up and to cook and to do thegrocery shopping.
So I finally had to say eitheryou help me or you pay for
someone to help me because, Icouldn't do it anymore.
I could not do it and I'm sothankful now to have a partner
that says wait a minute, youknow, I was single before you
and I could do these thingsbefore you.
And he recognizes that I dothese things and he recognizes
(10:56):
that sometimes I go a littleabove and beyond I think
sometimes, but it's justsomething that's built within me
and he tells me it's okay,you're not there anymore, you
have help, and that's a reallygood feeling too.
Shay (11:09):
That's beautiful.
Yeah, my situation is a littledifferent.
It's all Shay's issues.
My husband be like I ain't tellyou to do all of that, and he's
right.
He's been telling me that for25 years.
Like, hey, my husband for the,oh my God.
So I started getting somebodyto clean my house, like a couple
of years ago, and like, was itright before?
(11:30):
It was like during, right atthe end of the pandemic, and so
I literally had to get coachingto get to that point, cause my
husband had been telling me 20years prior to hire somebody.
So I have to give it up to myhusband, it ain't that way, it
ain't him, it's me, cause he'slike well, get some help, hire
somebody.
I'm like, no, I can do all ofthis right so and then he's like
I ain't tell you to wash myclothes and I'm like you know
(11:52):
what?
Vanessa (11:52):
you wouldn't have no underwear if I wash your clothes
maybe that'd be a good lesson,though, a really good lesson.
Shay (11:58):
I might as well just go buy more underwear he's one of
those.
But, um, yeah, I mean I have tosay I know there's women, that
men at our home that are justlike nah, you need to do this,
they have that expectation.
My husband doesn't have thatexpectation.
I said that within myself, so Ithink that also needs to be
honored too, that some womenjust do it because they they do
it too much, they just doing toomuch, and they need to sit down
(12:21):
and look at themselves anddon't be blaming their man or
their woman or whoever theirpartner, without like well, they
expect me, no, you expect ityourself.
So, anyways, I'm talking tomyself right now but you know so
, but you're so right, you're soso right.
Vanessa (12:34):
A lot of times it's just we think that that's what
we're supposed to do, or itwon't get done unless we do it.
And you can't do everything andyou can't do everything.
Well, that's the other part ofthat.
So we have to make choices andpick and choose, and that's
something women as a whole arenot good at.
We want to have it all and doit all, but you know we have to,
(12:54):
like you said, honor thosethings and step back and say we
need help when we need help, andothers on the other side of
that, our partners, need torealize that they need to see it
and they need to not wait untilwe ask for it, because if we
ask for help.
We are beyond the point ofneeding it.
Shay (13:13):
That's so true.
Vanessa (13:14):
Yeah, and then we also have all these changing family
dynamics.
That's another thing.
We have a lot of, you know,same-sex couples.
We have a lot of single adultswho are choosing to not get
married, not have kids.
We have a lot of, you know,dinks so dual income, no kids.
There's a lot of things goingon that didn't happen 50 years
(13:35):
ago openly anyway, with a lot ofthat.
But we have lots of changingfamily dynamics that really
impact the way we work, whoworks and who takes care of the
household.
Shay (13:49):
Yeah, that's so true.
Vanessa (13:50):
First of all, I've never heard of dinks before, so
that's something I've learnedtoday.
Shay (13:54):
So that's cool.
But yeah, you're right, it's adifferent world.
It's a different world and Imean we probably can go, so it
ain't no problem.
We can go deeper, and not onlywomen as the breadwinners, but
more single people, like yousaid, having to support
themselves or living at home,which I'm hearing about, the
news of a lot of people notleaving until they're 30, 35, 40
now because of the economy andso how that affects you know.
(14:18):
So there's a lot of differentdynamics there.
But yeah, it's a totally it's adifferent world or maybe, like
you said, it's the same world wejust now.
We know about it because socialand internet and all that.
Vanessa (14:27):
Yeah.
Shay (14:28):
It's always been like this .
Vanessa (14:29):
Exactly.
Shay (14:30):
So what about the social impact women as breadwinners has
bought?
So you know, like we kind ofalready mentioned the
redefinition of gender roles,women are accepted more as
breadwinners and many men helpwith domestic duties now, which
I love, like there's no shame atbeing a stay-at-home father, or
you know, cooking and cleaningand you know, oh.
(14:53):
So I just had this thought,like my husband, my mind, even
though I do a lot and I do themost, our household has been
very different because myhusband, for the first long time
he did most of the cooking andI I used to mow the grass and.
I used to, and you know, and wewere sharing cleaning and some,
you know, but he was, you know,but he did a lot of the cooking,
(15:16):
which I know a lot of men do alot of the cooking.
But growing up men didn't dothe cooking, in my, in my side
of family at least, yeah, and sohaving that, you know, people
will look at I or it might havejust been me but people were
looking at us like, yeah, that'sdifferent, y'all ain't
traditional.
And I used to have to tellpeople, no, we ain't.
No, my husband liked to cookfor a long time there.
(15:37):
He wanted to be.
Uh, he went to culinary schoolfor a little bit and all that I
didn't know that.
Vanessa (15:42):
Yeah, it didn't pan out the money situation.
Shay (15:45):
So he went to college in the military.
That's a long story, yeah, souh.
But then we came, when he gotout of the military, he looked
at culinary school again, andthat's another story too.
But yeah, he always loved tocook and so I was really spoiled
.
I mean I gained like 20, Igained 20 pounds the first year
we were dating because he cooksso much, oh, wow.
Vanessa (16:04):
That's.
But you know that is a rarityand I think a lot of men don't
spend time in the kitchens likewe did growing up, I think a lot
of women spent time in thekitchen with their you know,
their grandmas, their aunties,their moms, all those things
growing up.
And I didn't have that either.
I didn't.
I wasn't.
I didn't grow up in atraditional kitchen, I guess.
(16:24):
But my grandfather was a messsergeant in the military, so he
was really good at cooking, andmy grandmother, his wife, not so
much, but at home she reallytook care of him and provided
with food and everything on thetable, even though it was just
reheating things.
So but yeah, I didn't grow upwith a lot of women cooking
(16:45):
either and kind of showing mehow to do those things, so I had
to learn those on my own.
But that's a very, very goodway to kind of talk about it.
I think a lot of men do enjoycooking and do enjoy the
creation part and the creativityand being able to build
something that you can reallyenjoy the science of it all.
Shay (17:03):
Right, Cooking ain't nothing but science, so you know
, yeah, and then our daughterlearned a lot of cooking and
baking from him, not me.
So my mom did all the cookinggrowing up.
But, and I remember when Imoved to Germany and we got
married, she provided me alittle uh binder of recipes and
then she had, and so my mommakes like the best, like like
(17:24):
Thanksgiving dishes, likemacaroni cheese and sweet
potatoes, and her potato saladis a diet for like we should be
selling it like for real, forreal.
So we've all tried to, like youknow, copy that.
So my mom is supposed to cookand she, she just fell off a
little bit because she older.
But, like you know, copy that.
So my mom is supposed to cookand she, she just fell off a
little bit because she older.
But she, you know, she was theone, but those recipes were
passed down from her mother, myaunt, you know my great aunt,
(17:46):
julia, so like, and who couldcook her butt off?
Mom julia, oh god girl, shecould cook, she was amazing so
yeah, so you know those kind ofthings.
But you know all of this impactsthe family dynamics and can be
good or bad.
Right, you have to have toclearly define your roles in the
relationship and that's what Isaid, like for my husband and I
(18:07):
come in and it was like, hey, ifyou love to cook, you go in and
cook, I clean.
That's and that's what we didfor many for decades, you know,
until this year when I startedreally cooking and I always
cooked here and there.
I mean, we had a child so I hadto cook, had to take care of
her, but, yeah, he was like themain cook.
But having those conversationsare very important.
Vanessa (18:26):
So important?
Yeah, because if you canactually sit down with your
partner, number one it opens thelines of communication and you
can talk about your feelings Ifyou're feeling overwhelmed or
you're feeling like you needhelp, or if there's something
that you really don't like doingand they don't mind it.
You guys can have thoseconversations and kind of split
things up so you're not workingall day, then coming home and
(18:48):
having to cook and clean andhelp the kids with homework and
all those things that really getyou overwhelmed and then you
have zero time for yourself,zero time to like recoup and
recover.
But yeah, I think having theconversations that is so, so
important.
Shay (19:06):
And all of this is very empowering to women, I think
sometimes a little tooempowering, because women think
they the issue you know andthey'd be like, and then they
want to talk bad about men.
It's like we don't need y'all.
And that's where my husbandwould be like women are making
all this money now and theythink they you know all that.
And they are, and they alwayshave been.
But, you still got to have thatrespect for the other side,
(19:29):
right Exactly.
Vanessa (19:31):
You can't downplay the importance of their role as well
.
Exactly.
Shay (19:36):
And then we're role models .
Kids look up to both the bothparents for balancing work and
family.
You know, and I know I've beenfor my daughter.
You know, even though now she'slike you work too hard, and I
know Vanessa don't say nothing,she's like you need to rest, but
you know.
So what kind of role model areyou as a breadwinner, a woman?
As a breadwinner, you're a rolemodel and your kids like oh, I
(19:59):
want to be like my mama and allthat, but then, like my daughter
, be like I don't want to workthat hard.
Vanessa (20:04):
So you know that's how I felt too growing up.
Oh, wow yeah.
Yeah, I remember my mom wouldcome home and she would just be
completely exhausted and thenthe expectation was to help us
with our homework and dinner onthe table or whatever it might
be.
And I was like I don't wantthis one day.
I don't want to be so tiredthat I, you know, I can't
(20:25):
function.
Shay (20:26):
Yeah.
Vanessa (20:26):
And I was like I will never have my own business
because of that, Because that'swhat I equated that with.
Shay (20:32):
That's probably what my daughter felt like so hard.
Vanessa (20:35):
Yeah, yeah, that's probably what my daughter felt
like so hard, yeah, yeah, andit's like I don't.
I never understood that, thatshe didn't take time for the
family or for herself, or whichI know she was doing it for us,
obviously.
But you have to be able to tokind of say, okay, I'm doing
this, you do that, and it's okayto get your kids involved in
that too.
Kids can do things at home.
Kids can do things at home.
(21:03):
Kids can do things at work.
I know my mom taught me how torun payroll when I was 10.
I love that.
So yeah, because she didn'ttrust my dad to do it when she
was out of town.
So it's like she had her 10 yearold child, you know, running
payroll, but at the same timeshe passed these bad traits down
to me, showing me that you knowwomen have to clean, they have
to cook, they have to, you know,help the kids with the homework
and work 12 times harder too.
And it's okay to let you knowyour partner slack, and it's not
(21:25):
okay.
It's okay to have an equalenvironment and do things at
home too.
Absolutely.
Shay (21:32):
And then, what about all the great policy and work
changes that have come out ofthis right Flex work, parental
leave, like life, work balance,which I would say a lot of us
are working on, that I knowseeing in the Olympics that just
passed recently um, of courseI'm going to forget her name a
very amazing track star who'swon, like I think, the most
medals for America.
She implemented a uh child likethat daycare board yeah, like a
(21:57):
daycare or nursery, excuse me.
And the Olympic village, likethe first one ever, which was
like really, how many womenOlympians have been in Olympics
for hundreds of years?
And children, so for her to dothat, it's like, all right,
women are on top and they'relike, nah, we need, we demand to
have breastfeeding centers andleave, and you know what?
(22:18):
How about the man maternalleave?
You know that's huge too.
Like on the flip side, likeit's not just about the woman,
about the man in therelationship too.
I agree.
Vanessa (22:26):
I have always thought that paternity leave was so
important because you bond withthat baby and you spend time
with your you know, with yourlittle one and your spouse or
your partner, and when you'rerecovering from that as a woman,
you need help with just thatside of things too.
It's not just about the kid,and I think we forget about
(22:48):
those things that your body'schanged and who knows if you had
a C-section or not.
It takes time.
I've had friends in the pastspouses were military and
husbands didn't get to come homefor the birth of a child.
Wife had a C-section.
How are you expected to takecare of a newborn when you're
not supposed to lift Exactly?
It doesn't make any sense at allat all at all.
(23:12):
Or even if an adoption occurs,you know you need time to bond
with that child, both parents.
So there's not this inequalityfrom the beginning, Exactly.
Shay (23:23):
So do religious beliefs have an impact.
Vanessa (23:27):
I mean, I really think they do.
I don't know about you, but Ifeel like the way you're brought
up, a lot of those social rolesare kind of built into your
religious beliefs.
I don't know about you, but Ifeel like women as a whole just
still have that sense ofhonoring, taking care of, being
(23:48):
a little more submissive totheir spouses, and I think that
is in a lot of religiousperspectives.
But you know, there's a lotmore that goes in with that too.
What about giving you charity?
You know it's.
It's crazy to me that workingwomen give more to charity than
men do.
Shay (24:08):
How do you feel about that ?
They volunteer more too.
Yeah, it's just, I don't know.
Something's wrong with us.
This must be a DNA issue.
Vanessa (24:16):
We try to take care of everyone.
We try to take care of everyonebut ourselves.
Shay (24:20):
Most of the time, we are always doing the most, working
too much, and I struggle withthat.
You know, I was talking to myhusband yesterday about that.
You know, after theconversation we had with our
coach, I was saying like I'vejust always been like this.
And he's like, no, you ain't,because if you had always been
like this I wouldn't have beenwith you.
I was like, okay, thank you forthe honesty.
(24:40):
Yeah, but he's right.
I mean, there's it ebb andflows where I feel like I need
to do a lot, I need to do themost, and then sometimes I'd be
like, nah, I can't do that, Ineed to chill, I need to spend
more time with is something,something that's ingrained in me
as a woman that wants to do, orjust maybe I don't know.
(25:01):
I don't know if it's all, it'snot all women, obviously that
just always wants to do the most, always wants to volunteer like
serve and serve, and serve, andI can't serve and not take care
of myself.
Exactly.
Vanessa (25:14):
Exactly, and I think too, like there's this inner
longing for peace, and you knowwe want everybody to to thrive,
and I don't think a lot of menhave that.
And it's like we want to seechange and we want a better
world for children, we want abetter world for ourselves, and
I think we see a lot of that,more so than men.
(25:37):
I think men are more practicala lot of times and we kind of
dream these things and want andhope versus the realities of
things, and I think men are ableto just say no or I don't have
time, and we're like well, youknow what, if it's important,
I'll make time.
Exactly, yeah.
Shay (25:53):
You know many religions emphasize distinct gender roles
which can hold women back.
I know there are stillespecially that I know of in a
black church that men and I knowit's not only black churches
that men don't want women in apulpit, you know they don't want
, they don't even and they don'teven sharing that you know,
with their pastors and reverendsor whatever religious figure
(26:21):
you know, because they stilllike wait a minute, you make
more money and you're a man.
That's not right.
You know that kind of stigma,that's ridiculous.
Vanessa (26:28):
I agree a hundred percent.
I know like when I was incollege cause I went to a
Christian university and thechurch that I was going to and
I've been my entire life I'vebeen going to this church they
took a vote to see if they wouldeven look at resumes of women
when they were hiring a musicminister and they voted no, that
they would not look at.
(26:50):
Yep, and it was.
You know.
To me it was a more progressivechurch in the town that I was
in, but my mom and I made anactive decision that that was
not something we wanted to bepart of.
Shay (27:02):
Yeah.
Vanessa (27:03):
Because I knew so many girls who were going to school
and training to be part of thatcommunity and it really bothered
me that my own church would noteven look at their resume
because of their gender.
That's great, and you know, Ido know a lot of churches.
They expect to get a two forone a pastor and a spouse, and
they expect the spouse to runall the volunteer programs and
(27:25):
do all those things.
But it's like when your time isnot valued enough to be paid
for but you're doing it for free.
There's a problem there.
Shay (27:33):
There is a problem.
Vanessa (27:34):
There is a big, big problem and I don't know how to
fix that and I guess there's noway to really fix it.
You just have to decide are yougoing to be a part of that
community or not?
(27:57):
no-transcript sometimesreligious interpretations can be
very unclear.
So we take those words and wetwist things a bit.
So you know, we say, okay, well, it's important for a woman to
run a whole or the home or thehousehold, while others think
it's important for women to beout there and be leaders and to
(28:21):
be seen and heard.
So I think it's all how we readit and we interpret it and what
versions of the Bible thatwe're reading as well, or
whatever doctrine you follow.
But I think interpretation is ahuge thing and we can either
keep it the old way, based offof those interpretations, or you
can be more progressive andmove forward, very true.
Shay (28:42):
And then interpretations obviously it's just the filter
that you're looking through withall your life experience and
all your yeah, and just be yourperception, which is your
reality, and then it becomesother people's realities and
we're all out here living andbased off somebody's perception.
So, yeah, it's definitely thoseinterpretations are, are, can
be very important and, yeah,very strong.
(29:05):
And oh, I don't even know howto put it.
I just know that a lot ofpeople read the word and they
try.
And what used to really annoyme let me back this up is that
people would take one scriptureand run with it.
But if you read that wholesection, that whole book, that
whole chapter, they're reallytaking it out of context.
And so me reading the Biblefrom back to front to back and
(29:28):
really like wait a minute,people used to say this about
this and it's like no, there's apre, during and after story
that all aligns with that.
You're totally taken out ofcontact.
So and that's yeah, it's crazy.
Vanessa (29:42):
Exactly.
Shay (29:44):
Well, that was a great episode.
Any final thoughts?
Vanessa (29:47):
You know, I just say whatever you decide to do as a
female or a male, it's up to youand your partner, and whatever
works for your household, do it,do it, do it, do it, but have
conversations, talk about it andknow that you can't do
everything and you shouldn'thave to do everything.
Shay (30:03):
Amen, amen.
I agree with you, Vanessa.
I mean, I'm making it 25 yearswithout God and, obviously, nate
and I going through all thegood and bad, uh, but a lot of
it was talking about what worksfor us, like, and not caring
what the outside thought aboutit.
So if I made a little bit moremoney for a little bit and then
he did, you know, it was okay,like you know.
(30:23):
Or if I'm taking care of thisand he's taking care of this,
I'm doing this.
Whatever it may be, it worksfor us and so I don't care what
none of y'all haters out therethink about it.
It's about what God and myhusband husband and I uh wanted
and that's how we got throughall this in this time.
So, yeah, thank you for joiningus.
Have a good day.
A big thank you for listeningto this episode.
We hope you found today's chatabout the intersection of
(30:45):
religion and money insightful.
We would love to hear yourfeedback.
Hit that subscribe button orfollow the podcast and please
feel free to leave us a review.
Vanessa (30:55):
Yes, and for the latest Yahweh's Money content, visit
us at www.
crusaders4change.
org or find us anywhere youlisten to podcasts.
Until next time, stayfinancially fit and spiritually
inspired.
Shay (31:09):
And remember it's always better Yahweh's way.
Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and money
come up?
You're not alone.
Welcome to Yahweh's Money, thepodcast where we tackle the
crossroads of faith and finance.
I'm Shay Cook, an AccreditedFinancial Counselor and the CEO
and founder of Crusaders forChange LLC.
Vanessa (00:20):
And I'm Vanessa McNelley, Accredited Financial
Counselor and COO of Crusadersfor Change.
Join us on our journey as wediscuss topics like tithing
saving and conquering debtthrough religious perspectives.
Let's get started.
Shay (00:35):
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Yahweh's
Money.
Hey, Vanessa, how are you today?
I am good.
How are you, Shay?
I'm excited to talk about womenas the breadwinner.
Oh my God, this is a hot,steamy, sexy topic that nobody
wants to talk about?
Vanessa (00:51):
I know Yep.
Shay (00:53):
So we're going to get into it, because today, Vanessa, I
will be talking about somethingthat has been shattering
traditional stereotypes andrefining the modern family
dynamic for years.
Yep, that's right Women asbreadwinners.
In fact, nearly which is crazy,this amount, 40% of households
in the US now have women asbread, as the primary earners,
(01:17):
and I have to add that thenumbers are slightly higher for
people of color.
Women of color.
I know I've talked to manyBlack and brown women and
they're like oh that's like 70%.
I'm like, yeah, I don't knowwhat the real number is.
I think I've seen 60, but it'spretty high.
So talk about change, frombalancing budgets to breaking
barriers.
We explore more how modernwomen are leading the way in
(01:38):
financial stewardship, all whilenavigating their faith and
family life.
So we love a Proverbs womanhere at Yahweh's money.
In fact, proverbs 31, 13 to 14says or tells us she selects
wool and flax and works witheager hands.
She is like the merchant shipsbringing her food from afar.
(02:00):
This passage describes theProverbs woman as someone who
not only provides her for herhousehold, it also shows her
involvement in financialdecision making and her
entrepreneur spirit.
Oh my God, that's a mouthful.
Vanessa (02:17):
It's a lot.
It sounds exhausting actually.
Shay (02:20):
Yeah, that part.
Vanessa (02:23):
Yeah, it really does.
It sounds like we have to beeverything to everyone, and I
know we've talked about thatbefore too, but what do you
think brought about this changefor women to become breadwinners
?
Shay (02:34):
That's a great question, I know.
When I started reading thisscript and preparing I thought
of House of Dragon with the twowomen One is taking care of her
son, who's the king, and on theother side, for those who watch
House of Dragon, the two womenlike one is taking care of her
son, who's the king, and on theother side for those who watch
House of Dragon, who watch Gameof Thrones, and you have this
king queen trying to become,excuse me, the queen of all the
(02:54):
lands or whatever.
I'm sure I'm messing up thereference, but even now in TV
and on in movies, women are justmore at the forefront.
In movies, women are just moreat the forefront.
So I don't know, it's wild.
I mean, I've always been sideby side with my husband.
I wouldn't say I've necessarilybeen the breadwinner in my
household, but I know a lot offamily friends, including single
(03:16):
mothers, including my husband'smother, have been and it's a
change.
That tide has been rising for along time and I don't know if
it's ever going to go back down.
Vanessa (03:25):
I agree.
I know in my household I'vebeen the breadwinner before and
I think it does.
It brings about this weirddynamic too, because I think a
lot of men feel threatened whenthat happens.
Some don't, which is wonderful,but it does.
It brings about this.
A lot of people don't know howto handle the change, I think,
when it comes down to it.
But I think one reason for thisis women are able to get more
(03:50):
education these days than theywere in the past, so I think
that's a huge thing.
I know my grandmother.
My grandmother had to quitschool in the third grade
because she had to stay at homeand help raise the other
children.
And if you think back from hergeneration to us now and the
ability to finish high school,to go to college to get a
(04:10):
master's degree, to go get adoctorate degree, that has
really changed in such a shortperiod of time it really has so
many women.
Shay (04:19):
I know they have multiple degrees, multiple certifications
and you even meet the womenthat are at home and not
breadwinners to have educationright.
So it's definitely attainable,more attainable than it's ever
been before, especially withonline and just all the
flexibility that universitiesand colleges offer.
So yay to women that aregetting all the education.
(04:39):
I would say sometimes women gettoo much education because then
they're they, they are, theyhave too much and now they can't
get.
I've seen women that can't geta job because they just have too
much on their resume.
Vanessa (04:49):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Especially when you have thatand let's say you stay at home
with your kids for a little bit,so you don't have that work
experience or relevant or timelywork experience, but you have
all the education, you kind ofget yourself in this place where
you're not really in a space tobe hired and it's really,
really hard.
So I guess finding that balanceis what we all want to do.
(05:11):
Yeah, and we do have anincrease of women who are
actually participating in a partof the workforce, and that's
something we didn't have in thepast.
A lot of women stayed at home,raised a family.
That's what we were kind oftaught to do back in that day.
I have cause I have twograndmothers, so my dad's mom
was very upset with me when Itold her I wanted to go to
(05:32):
college, because she thought awoman's place was in the home
and your job was to raise yourfamily, cook for your husband,
clean your house.
And I think it went back tothat's what she had wanted for
herself.
But she was a single mom ofthree, so she never got that.
Shay (05:51):
Yeah, and that's true.
I know I see women here in myfamily that they still have
those traditional roles and then, on top of the traditional
roles, if they get a job, theystill hold on to those
traditional roles, which I knowwe've talked about a lot, and
all the invisible work that'sstill involved in there and the
inequality between the man and awoman when it comes to the
(06:14):
shared roles, and that's anotherepisode.
But being the breadwinner, to behonest, vanessa, I don't know,
I don't have many women in myside of the family that were
breadwinners.
Most of them were thattraditional role taking care of
the child at home, taking careof children and taking care of
(06:34):
the household.
The man went out and got thebacon, brought the bacon home,
as they would say, or they gotjobs, like I said, and they
still maintain the household.
I think more on my husband'sside, because his mom was a
single mother and a lot of hisaunts they are single or
whatever the situation may be,they were.
So I guess it's all dependenton an era, the culture where
(06:56):
you're from, like many differentfactors.
Vanessa (06:58):
Oh yeah, totally yeah.
I know my mom worked more thanmy father worked, so she was
gone out of the house workingfrom gosh early morning to late
at night most days, and my dadwould go in three or four maybe
on a good day and he would stayuntil 11 or 12 if he felt like
it.
So it was a very differentdynamic in our household, even
(07:21):
though they owned businesses.
So essentially they made thesame amount.
But I know my mom worked a lotharder with things, yeah, and
we've had a lot of advancementstoo in gender equality, and I
will say we are not there yet.
Shay (07:36):
We are a long way from, because women still are in the
majority, like administrativeroles and stuff like that.
They're not in the roles ofleadership.
You know all that kind of stuff, yeah, they're not in the roles
of leadership.
You know all that kind of stuff, yeah.
Vanessa (07:47):
Well, there's still a pay gap.
I think there's a 16% pay gapstill between men and women
doing the same job.
And then if you think aboutgender equality through the ages
, just when women gain the rightto vote, not every woman gained
the right to vote at the sametime, exactly.
So it's been since the sixties,and that's not really that long
(08:07):
since women have been a part ofthis yeah.
Yeah, and then you know, there'sjust there's changing social
norms and gender roles and Idon't know about you, but I
still have this desire within meto be a woman, do things around
the house for my partner, likeI enjoy cooking dinner for them,
(08:30):
I enjoy cleaning the house.
It makes me feel like I'mcontributing in this way that I
don't know.
It's hard to explain.
I think it's just somethingthat's built into me and I know
most people don't have that.
But what about you?
How do you feel with?
Shay (08:45):
all that.
I just love the clean.
I don't think, as you know, I'mOCD, I'm a clean freak.
I just love a clean house.
So my family benefits from that.
My growing up, my family, mybrother and sister, mom and dad
benefited from that.
So I don't even know if that'sjust DNA or whatever.
So that's always been there,Like my house.
Everybody knows my house isgoing to be clean, Okay so.
(09:05):
But when it comes to cooking, Ijust recently fell in love with
cooking because it was a healthchoice.
It was like, with my familystarting with me, it's going to
be healthy, I need to cook.
And then, of course, came withthat was I'm saving money.
So y'all should definitely trythat out, you money, I mean.
(09:28):
Now, when I go in therefrigerator, I'm like man,
maybe I should order somethinglike no, I'm going to eat these
leftovers and then leftovers begood.
So I, you know.
So that's what I do.
But yeah, I know a lot of peoplethe same way that just feel
like I got to run my house, Igot to take care of it.
It's like but you're alsoworking, so you're exhausted,
(09:54):
right, when you're at the end ofthe day too, and all of that.
So there has to be somepartnering there when it comes
to especially women asbreadwinners.
We need to have a conversationwith our partners, with our
children.
You might have some othergenerational family members
living in the house.
We need to have a conversation.
If I'm going to be making themajority of your money like
somebody, there needs to be someequality there in the roles
that we play at home.
Vanessa (10:09):
Somebody.
There needs to be some equalitythere in the roles that we play
at home.
Agree, yeah, I know back in theday my ex-husband would not
help me with anything in thehome and he was raised in a
household where his motherworked, so I never really
understood it.
But at one point I had to sayto him either you help me with
these things around the housebecause I was working full time.
I was a full-time grad student.
I had a side hustle and I wasworking full-time.
(10:32):
I was a full-time grad student.
I had a side hustle and I wasstill expected to keep the house
up and to cook and to do thegrocery shopping.
So I finally had to say eitheryou help me or you pay for
someone to help me because, Icouldn't do it anymore.
I could not do it and I'm sothankful now to have a partner
that says wait a minute, youknow, I was single before you
and I could do these thingsbefore you.
And he recognizes that I dothese things and he recognizes
(10:56):
that sometimes I go a littleabove and beyond I think
sometimes, but it's justsomething that's built within me
and he tells me it's okay,you're not there anymore, you
have help, and that's a reallygood feeling too.
Shay (11:09):
That's beautiful.
Yeah, my situation is a littledifferent.
It's all Shay's issues.
My husband be like I ain't tellyou to do all of that, and he's
right.
He's been telling me that for25 years.
Like, hey, my husband for the,oh my God.
So I started getting somebodyto clean my house, like a couple
of years ago, and like, was itright before?
(11:30):
It was like during, right atthe end of the pandemic, and so
I literally had to get coachingto get to that point, cause my
husband had been telling me 20years prior to hire somebody.
So I have to give it up to myhusband, it ain't that way, it
ain't him, it's me, cause he'slike well, get some help, hire
somebody.
I'm like, no, I can do all ofthis right so and then he's like
I ain't tell you to wash myclothes and I'm like you know
(11:52):
what?
Vanessa (11:52):
you wouldn't have no underwear if I wash your clothes
maybe that'd be a good lesson,though, a really good lesson.
Shay (11:58):
I might as well just go buy more underwear he's one of
those.
But, um, yeah, I mean I have tosay I know there's women, that
men at our home that are justlike nah, you need to do this,
they have that expectation.
My husband doesn't have thatexpectation.
I said that within myself, so Ithink that also needs to be
honored too, that some womenjust do it because they they do
it too much, they just doing toomuch, and they need to sit down
(12:21):
and look at themselves anddon't be blaming their man or
their woman or whoever theirpartner, without like well, they
expect me, no, you expect ityourself.
So, anyways, I'm talking tomyself right now but you know so
, but you're so right, you're soso right.
Vanessa (12:34):
A lot of times it's just we think that that's what
we're supposed to do, or itwon't get done unless we do it.
And you can't do everything andyou can't do everything.
Well, that's the other part ofthat.
So we have to make choices andpick and choose, and that's
something women as a whole arenot good at.
We want to have it all and doit all, but you know we have to,
(12:54):
like you said, honor thosethings and step back and say we
need help when we need help, andothers on the other side of
that, our partners, need torealize that they need to see it
and they need to not wait untilwe ask for it, because if we
ask for help.
We are beyond the point ofneeding it.
Shay (13:13):
That's so true.
Vanessa (13:14):
Yeah, and then we also have all these changing family
dynamics.
That's another thing.
We have a lot of, you know,same-sex couples.
We have a lot of single adultswho are choosing to not get
married, not have kids.
We have a lot of, you know,dinks so dual income, no kids.
There's a lot of things goingon that didn't happen 50 years
(13:35):
ago openly anyway, with a lot ofthat.
But we have lots of changingfamily dynamics that really
impact the way we work, whoworks and who takes care of the
household.
Shay (13:49):
Yeah, that's so true.
Vanessa (13:50):
First of all, I've never heard of dinks before, so
that's something I've learnedtoday.
Shay (13:54):
So that's cool.
But yeah, you're right, it's adifferent world.
It's a different world and Imean we probably can go, so it
ain't no problem.
We can go deeper, and not onlywomen as the breadwinners, but
more single people, like yousaid, having to support
themselves or living at home,which I'm hearing about, the
news of a lot of people notleaving until they're 30, 35, 40
now because of the economy andso how that affects you know.
(14:18):
So there's a lot of differentdynamics there.
But yeah, it's a totally it's adifferent world or maybe, like
you said, it's the same world wejust now.
We know about it because socialand internet and all that.
Vanessa (14:27):
Yeah.
Shay (14:28):
It's always been like this .
Vanessa (14:29):
Exactly.
Shay (14:30):
So what about the social impact women as breadwinners has
bought?
So you know, like we kind ofalready mentioned the
redefinition of gender roles,women are accepted more as
breadwinners and many men helpwith domestic duties now, which
I love, like there's no shame atbeing a stay-at-home father, or
you know, cooking and cleaningand you know, oh.
(14:53):
So I just had this thought,like my husband, my mind, even
though I do a lot and I do themost, our household has been
very different because myhusband, for the first long time
he did most of the cooking andI I used to mow the grass and.
I used to, and you know, and wewere sharing cleaning and some,
you know, but he was, you know,but he did a lot of the cooking,
(15:16):
which I know a lot of men do alot of the cooking.
But growing up men didn't dothe cooking, in my, in my side
of family at least, yeah, and sohaving that, you know, people
will look at I or it might havejust been me but people were
looking at us like, yeah, that'sdifferent, y'all ain't
traditional.
And I used to have to tellpeople, no, we ain't.
No, my husband liked to cookfor a long time there.
(15:37):
He wanted to be.
Uh, he went to culinary schoolfor a little bit and all that I
didn't know that.
Vanessa (15:42):
Yeah, it didn't pan out the money situation.
Shay (15:45):
So he went to college in the military.
That's a long story, yeah, souh.
But then we came, when he gotout of the military, he looked
at culinary school again, andthat's another story too.
But yeah, he always loved tocook and so I was really spoiled
.
I mean I gained like 20, Igained 20 pounds the first year
we were dating because he cooksso much, oh, wow.
Vanessa (16:04):
That's.
But you know that is a rarityand I think a lot of men don't
spend time in the kitchens likewe did growing up, I think a lot
of women spent time in thekitchen with their you know,
their grandmas, their aunties,their moms, all those things
growing up.
And I didn't have that either.
I didn't.
I wasn't.
I didn't grow up in atraditional kitchen, I guess.
(16:24):
But my grandfather was a messsergeant in the military, so he
was really good at cooking, andmy grandmother, his wife, not so
much, but at home she reallytook care of him and provided
with food and everything on thetable, even though it was just
reheating things.
So but yeah, I didn't grow upwith a lot of women cooking
(16:45):
either and kind of showing mehow to do those things, so I had
to learn those on my own.
But that's a very, very goodway to kind of talk about it.
I think a lot of men do enjoycooking and do enjoy the
creation part and the creativityand being able to build
something that you can reallyenjoy the science of it all.
Shay (17:03):
Right, Cooking ain't nothing but science, so you know
, yeah, and then our daughterlearned a lot of cooking and
baking from him, not me.
So my mom did all the cookinggrowing up.
But, and I remember when Imoved to Germany and we got
married, she provided me alittle uh binder of recipes and
then she had, and so my mommakes like the best, like like
(17:24):
Thanksgiving dishes, likemacaroni cheese and sweet
potatoes, and her potato saladis a diet for like we should be
selling it like for real, forreal.
So we've all tried to, like youknow, copy that.
So my mom is supposed to cookand she, she just fell off a
little bit because she older.
But, like you know, copy that.
So my mom is supposed to cookand she, she just fell off a
little bit because she older.
But she, you know, she was theone, but those recipes were
passed down from her mother, myaunt, you know my great aunt,
(17:46):
julia, so like, and who couldcook her butt off?
Mom julia, oh god girl, shecould cook, she was amazing so
yeah, so you know those kind ofthings.
But you know all of this impactsthe family dynamics and can be
good or bad.
Right, you have to have toclearly define your roles in the
relationship and that's what Isaid, like for my husband and I
(18:07):
come in and it was like, hey, ifyou love to cook, you go in and
cook, I clean.
That's and that's what we didfor many for decades, you know,
until this year when I startedreally cooking and I always
cooked here and there.
I mean, we had a child so I hadto cook, had to take care of
her, but, yeah, he was like themain cook.
But having those conversationsare very important.
Vanessa (18:26):
So important?
Yeah, because if you canactually sit down with your
partner, number one it opens thelines of communication and you
can talk about your feelings Ifyou're feeling overwhelmed or
you're feeling like you needhelp, or if there's something
that you really don't like doingand they don't mind it.
You guys can have thoseconversations and kind of split
things up so you're not workingall day, then coming home and
(18:48):
having to cook and clean andhelp the kids with homework and
all those things that really getyou overwhelmed and then you
have zero time for yourself,zero time to like recoup and
recover.
But yeah, I think having theconversations that is so, so
important.
Shay (19:06):
And all of this is very empowering to women, I think
sometimes a little tooempowering, because women think
they the issue you know andthey'd be like, and then they
want to talk bad about men.
It's like we don't need y'all.
And that's where my husbandwould be like women are making
all this money now and theythink they you know all that.
And they are, and they alwayshave been.
But, you still got to have thatrespect for the other side,
(19:29):
right Exactly.
Vanessa (19:31):
You can't downplay the importance of their role as well
.
Exactly.
Shay (19:36):
And then we're role models .
Kids look up to both the bothparents for balancing work and
family.
You know, and I know I've beenfor my daughter.
You know, even though now she'slike you work too hard, and I
know Vanessa don't say nothing,she's like you need to rest, but
you know.
So what kind of role model areyou as a breadwinner, a woman?
As a breadwinner, you're a rolemodel and your kids like oh, I
(19:59):
want to be like my mama and allthat, but then, like my daughter
, be like I don't want to workthat hard.
Vanessa (20:04):
So you know that's how I felt too growing up.
Oh, wow yeah.
Yeah, I remember my mom wouldcome home and she would just be
completely exhausted and thenthe expectation was to help us
with our homework and dinner onthe table or whatever it might
be.
And I was like I don't wantthis one day.
I don't want to be so tiredthat I, you know, I can't
(20:25):
function.
Shay (20:26):
Yeah.
Vanessa (20:26):
And I was like I will never have my own business
because of that, Because that'swhat I equated that with.
Shay (20:32):
That's probably what my daughter felt like so hard.
Vanessa (20:35):
Yeah, yeah, that's probably what my daughter felt
like so hard, yeah, yeah, andit's like I don't.
I never understood that, thatshe didn't take time for the
family or for herself, or whichI know she was doing it for us,
obviously.
But you have to be able to tokind of say, okay, I'm doing
this, you do that, and it's okayto get your kids involved in
that too.
Kids can do things at home.
Kids can do things at home.
(21:03):
Kids can do things at work.
I know my mom taught me how torun payroll when I was 10.
I love that.
So yeah, because she didn'ttrust my dad to do it when she
was out of town.
So it's like she had her 10 yearold child, you know, running
payroll, but at the same timeshe passed these bad traits down
to me, showing me that you knowwomen have to clean, they have
to cook, they have to, you know,help the kids with the homework
and work 12 times harder too.
And it's okay to let you knowyour partner slack, and it's not
(21:25):
okay.
It's okay to have an equalenvironment and do things at
home too.
Absolutely.
Shay (21:32):
And then, what about all the great policy and work
changes that have come out ofthis right Flex work, parental
leave, like life, work balance,which I would say a lot of us
are working on, that I knowseeing in the Olympics that just
passed recently um, of courseI'm going to forget her name a
very amazing track star who'swon, like I think, the most
medals for America.
She implemented a uh child likethat daycare board yeah, like a
(21:57):
daycare or nursery, excuse me.
And the Olympic village, likethe first one ever, which was
like really, how many womenOlympians have been in Olympics
for hundreds of years?
And children, so for her to dothat, it's like, all right,
women are on top and they'relike, nah, we need, we demand to
have breastfeeding centers andleave, and you know what?
(22:18):
How about the man maternalleave?
You know that's huge too.
Like on the flip side, likeit's not just about the woman,
about the man in therelationship too.
I agree.
Vanessa (22:26):
I have always thought that paternity leave was so
important because you bond withthat baby and you spend time
with your you know, with yourlittle one and your spouse or
your partner, and when you'rerecovering from that as a woman,
you need help with just thatside of things too.
It's not just about the kid,and I think we forget about
(22:48):
those things that your body'schanged and who knows if you had
a C-section or not.
It takes time.
I've had friends in the pastspouses were military and
husbands didn't get to come homefor the birth of a child.
Wife had a C-section.
How are you expected to takecare of a newborn when you're
not supposed to lift Exactly?
It doesn't make any sense at allat all at all.
(23:12):
Or even if an adoption occurs,you know you need time to bond
with that child, both parents.
So there's not this inequalityfrom the beginning, Exactly.
Shay (23:23):
So do religious beliefs have an impact.
Vanessa (23:27):
I mean, I really think they do.
I don't know about you, but Ifeel like the way you're brought
up, a lot of those social rolesare kind of built into your
religious beliefs.
I don't know about you, but Ifeel like women as a whole just
still have that sense ofhonoring, taking care of, being
(23:48):
a little more submissive totheir spouses, and I think that
is in a lot of religiousperspectives.
But you know, there's a lotmore that goes in with that too.
What about giving you charity?
You know it's.
It's crazy to me that workingwomen give more to charity than
men do.
Shay (24:08):
How do you feel about that ?
They volunteer more too.
Yeah, it's just, I don't know.
Something's wrong with us.
This must be a DNA issue.
Vanessa (24:16):
We try to take care of everyone.
We try to take care of everyonebut ourselves.
Shay (24:20):
Most of the time, we are always doing the most, working
too much, and I struggle withthat.
You know, I was talking to myhusband yesterday about that.
You know, after theconversation we had with our
coach, I was saying like I'vejust always been like this.
And he's like, no, you ain't,because if you had always been
like this I wouldn't have beenwith you.
I was like, okay, thank you forthe honesty.
(24:40):
Yeah, but he's right.
I mean, there's it ebb andflows where I feel like I need
to do a lot, I need to do themost, and then sometimes I'd be
like, nah, I can't do that, Ineed to chill, I need to spend
more time with is something,something that's ingrained in me
as a woman that wants to do, orjust maybe I don't know.
(25:01):
I don't know if it's all, it'snot all women, obviously that
just always wants to do the most, always wants to volunteer like
serve and serve, and serve, andI can't serve and not take care
of myself.
Exactly.
Vanessa (25:14):
Exactly, and I think too, like there's this inner
longing for peace, and you knowwe want everybody to to thrive,
and I don't think a lot of menhave that.
And it's like we want to seechange and we want a better
world for children, we want abetter world for ourselves, and
I think we see a lot of that,more so than men.
(25:37):
I think men are more practicala lot of times and we kind of
dream these things and want andhope versus the realities of
things, and I think men are ableto just say no or I don't have
time, and we're like well, youknow what, if it's important,
I'll make time.
Exactly, yeah.
Shay (25:53):
You know many religions emphasize distinct gender roles
which can hold women back.
I know there are stillespecially that I know of in a
black church that men and I knowit's not only black churches
that men don't want women in apulpit, you know they don't want
, they don't even and they don'teven sharing that you know,
with their pastors and reverendsor whatever religious figure
(26:21):
you know, because they stilllike wait a minute, you make
more money and you're a man.
That's not right.
You know that kind of stigma,that's ridiculous.
Vanessa (26:28):
I agree a hundred percent.
I know like when I was incollege cause I went to a
Christian university and thechurch that I was going to and
I've been my entire life I'vebeen going to this church they
took a vote to see if they wouldeven look at resumes of women
when they were hiring a musicminister and they voted no, that
they would not look at.
(26:50):
Yep, and it was.
You know.
To me it was a more progressivechurch in the town that I was
in, but my mom and I made anactive decision that that was
not something we wanted to bepart of.
Shay (27:02):
Yeah.
Vanessa (27:03):
Because I knew so many girls who were going to school
and training to be part of thatcommunity and it really bothered
me that my own church would noteven look at their resume
because of their gender.
That's great, and you know, Ido know a lot of churches.
They expect to get a two forone a pastor and a spouse, and
they expect the spouse to runall the volunteer programs and
(27:25):
do all those things.
But it's like when your time isnot valued enough to be paid
for but you're doing it for free.
There's a problem there.
Shay (27:33):
There is a problem.
Vanessa (27:34):
There is a big, big problem and I don't know how to
fix that and I guess there's noway to really fix it.
You just have to decide are yougoing to be a part of that
community or not?
(27:57):
no-transcript sometimesreligious interpretations can be
very unclear.
So we take those words and wetwist things a bit.
So you know, we say, okay, well, it's important for a woman to
run a whole or the home or thehousehold, while others think
it's important for women to beout there and be leaders and to
(28:21):
be seen and heard.
So I think it's all how we readit and we interpret it and what
versions of the Bible thatwe're reading as well, or
whatever doctrine you follow.
But I think interpretation is ahuge thing and we can either
keep it the old way, based offof those interpretations, or you
can be more progressive andmove forward, very true.
Shay (28:42):
And then interpretations obviously it's just the filter
that you're looking through withall your life experience and
all your yeah, and just be yourperception, which is your
reality, and then it becomesother people's realities and
we're all out here living andbased off somebody's perception.
So, yeah, it's definitely thoseinterpretations are, are, can
be very important and, yeah,very strong.
(29:05):
And oh, I don't even know howto put it.
I just know that a lot ofpeople read the word and they
try.
And what used to really annoyme let me back this up is that
people would take one scriptureand run with it.
But if you read that wholesection, that whole book, that
whole chapter, they're reallytaking it out of context.
And so me reading the Biblefrom back to front to back and
(29:28):
really like wait a minute,people used to say this about
this and it's like no, there's apre, during and after story
that all aligns with that.
You're totally taken out ofcontact.
So and that's yeah, it's crazy.
Vanessa (29:42):
Exactly.
Shay (29:44):
Well, that was a great episode.
Any final thoughts?
Vanessa (29:47):
You know, I just say whatever you decide to do as a
female or a male, it's up to youand your partner, and whatever
works for your household, do it,do it, do it, do it, but have
conversations, talk about it andknow that you can't do
everything and you shouldn'thave to do everything.
Shay (30:03):
Amen, amen.
I agree with you, Vanessa.
I mean, I'm making it 25 yearswithout God and, obviously, nate
and I going through all thegood and bad, uh, but a lot of
it was talking about what worksfor us, like, and not caring
what the outside thought aboutit.
So if I made a little bit moremoney for a little bit and then
he did, you know, it was okay,like you know.
(30:23):
Or if I'm taking care of thisand he's taking care of this,
I'm doing this.
Whatever it may be, it worksfor us and so I don't care what
none of y'all haters out therethink about it.
It's about what God and myhusband husband and I uh wanted
and that's how we got throughall this in this time.
So, yeah, thank you for joiningus.
Have a good day.
A big thank you for listeningto this episode.
We hope you found today's chatabout the intersection of
(30:45):
religion and money insightful.
We would love to hear yourfeedback.
Hit that subscribe button orfollow the podcast and please
feel free to leave us a review.
Vanessa (30:55):
Yes, and for the latest Yahweh's Money content, visit
us at www.
crusaders4change.
org or find us anywhere youlisten to podcasts.
Until next time, stayfinancially fit and spiritually
inspired.
Shay (31:09):
And remember it's always better Yahweh's way.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.