August 14, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode, we get real about what happens when ambition is led by purpose—not pressure—and how trusting God with your finances, goals, and career can lead to outcomes that defy logic.
From tithing through pay cuts to setting boundaries in grind culture, Dewan Clayborn, President & CEO of the Central Maryland Chamber, shares his testimony of what happens when you follow God’s call—even when it doesn’t make sense on paper.
If you’ve ever wrestled with the tension between ambition and obedience, or wondered whether your goals are rooted in faith or ego, this episode is your reminder that God doesn’t just tolerate your ambition—He designed it.
Here’s what you’ll walk away with:
- How to tell the difference between godly ambition and worldly hustle.
- Real talk on tithing, trusting God with money, and spiritual stewardship.
- Why obedience sometimes looks like a pay cut—but leads to overflow.
- The spiritual significance of speaking in tongues, prayer as a couple, and building legacy.
- How to align business, career, and personal goals with your faith.
Featured Scripture:
- Colossians 3:23-24 – “Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men…”
- Philippians 4:19 – “My God shall supply all your needs…”
- Romans 10:9-10 – Salvation through confession and belief.
- James 4:7 – “Resist the devil and he will flee from you.”
- Ephesians 6 – The Armor of God (spiritual warfare)
Action Step:
Spend 10 minutes this week in quiet prayer. Ask: Are my goals led by God—or by pressure? Choose one goal to revise with faith, purpose, and alignment in mind.
Final Word:
Ambition isn’t the enemy of faith—disobedience is. When you surrender your hustle to God, He’ll take what took years and restore it in one season. Your grind doesn’t have to be exhausting. It can be anointed.
Connect with Dewan here:
LinkedIn: Dewan Clayborn, IOM | LinkedIn
The Next Generation of Nonprofit Leadership by Dewan Clayborn
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Our podcast is proudly sponsored by Crusaders for Change, LLC (C4C) and hosted by our CEO and Founder, Mrs. Shay Cook. At C4C, we provide customized corporate financial wellness programs for businesses, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations. Our services are tailored to create happier, healthier, and more productive work environments. We also empower individuals and couples to overcome debt, improve their credit, boost savings, and more. Ready to learn more about how C4C can impact your life? Contact us today at https://www.crusaders4change.org/!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dewan Clayborn (00:02):
My hustling is more so about going to
organizations that are brokenand fixing it, and so it's easy
to go to an organization that'sworking right.
Everybody would just wants tohey, yeah, hire me for that, but
God has a calling for me to goto these structures that are
(00:22):
broken and then refix them.
To go to these structures thatare broken and then refix them,
you have to have numerous ofconversations, difficult
conversations, I mean.
You get targets on your back,people that don't like you.
You get a lot of people thatlove you, though when you turn
around, my hustle is different,because it's like to me this is
hustling.
(00:42):
I say that like I don't evenknow how I would act if I walked
into an organization that wasperfect.
Shay Cook (00:48):
Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and
money come up?
You're not alone.
Welcome to Yahweh's Money, thepodcast where we tackle the
crossroads of faith and finance.
I'm Shay Cook, an accreditedfinancial counselor and the CEO
and founder of Crusaders forChange LLC.
Join us on our journey as wediscuss topics like tithing,
(01:09):
saving and conquering debtthrough religious perspectives.
Let's get started.
Hey everyone, welcome back toanother episode of Yahweh's
Money.
I'm so happy to be here today.
God is so amazing.
In today's world, ambition oftengets a bad rap and face circles
.
But is it wrong to want more?
(01:30):
Can we chase goals, buildwealth and grow careers while
still honoring God?
Let's talk about the holyhustle.
So the main scripture fortoday's episode is Colossians 3,
23 to 24.
Whatever you do, work heartilyas for the Lord and not for men.
Knowing that from the Lord youwill receive the inheritance of
(01:51):
your reward, you are serving theLord Christ.
So this scripture reminds usthat our ambition and hustle
aren't for status or applause,but should be rooted in service
to God.
It reframes success as worshipwhen done with the right heart.
So I am so proud to have heretoday our Central Maryland
(02:12):
Chamber President and CEO, DewanClayborn.
He is like a brother fromanother mother.
I had the privilege of being apart of his national search and
bring him on to this amazingchamber.
Welcome, Dewan Clayborn.
How are you doing?
Dewan Clayborn (02:26):
I'm doing great.
Thank you so much for having meExcited to be here and looking
forward to jumping into things.
Shay Cook (02:33):
I know We've had so many amazing conversations over
a year now, over a year thatwe've known each other.
It's crazy.
Time goes by fast, man y'all.
I came into Central MarylandChamber as a chair of the board
back in January of 24, threeweeks later the CEO and
president told me she's leaving,and now I got to be a part of
the search and the managementand all that.
(02:54):
But it turned out to be God'scalling, because he knew he was
bringing this brother to ourchamber.
To take it to another level,I'm telling you, if you ain't
part of Central Maryland Chamber, you need to join today.
It is an amazing chamber and Ilove it and I tell everybody
about it.
So I'm just happy for you to behere.
Tell us more about you.
Dewan Clayborn (03:11):
Before I do start yes, thank you.
You know you've been a bigsister I've never had.
In true leadership, it takes aleader that also knows how to
follow, and one thing that youdid that was really a spark for
me is that after the search,after the transition, after I
started, you said, hey, dejuan,I'm going to just focus on
(03:33):
keeping people out of your wayso you can do your job, and to a
lot of leaders that doesn'thappen.
So thank you for being thatbackbone, that muscle and
everything.
And so, yes, dejuan Claiborne,I'm from Little Rock, Arkansas,
just recently got married to mybeautiful wife, brittany
Claiborne.
We relocated here to Marylandand so we are super excited to
(03:56):
be here I have other familymembers here in the DMV and so
excited to talk about all things, about Holy Hustle and how we
are truly here because we'recalled to conquer.
Shay Cook (04:08):
Amen, amen, yeah, shout out to Brittany.
She's a lovely, amazing blackwoman.
And you said Merlin, ok, he'sbeen part of us now.
Dewan Clayborn (04:20):
He said, merlin, I love it, that's what it is.
Shay Cook (04:23):
All right, now let's get into our rapid fire
questions.
Dewan Clayborn (04:27):
Take your seat, let the wisdom inherit.
Let's hit the rapid fire.
Questions Say what's on yourspirit.
Take your seat, let the wisdominherit.
Shay Cook (04:44):
Let's hit the rapid fire questions Say what's on
your spirit.
So we got three quick questionsoff the dome.
Don't think about it too much.
Our first question is what doesholy hustle mean to you?
Dewan Clayborn (04:58):
Holy hustle means to me is honestly like
allowing your light to shine,and so when I said that, I
opened up and said we are calledto conquer, and what I mean by
that is God puts us in areas togo and take territory.
So for me, he planted me inCentral Maryland to take
(05:22):
territory, to be a light in thisdark world, to allow my light
to shine to wherever I go.
People interact with me andknow something's different, and
that allows me the opportunityto bring the holy peace in which
is tell them about Christ.
Romans 10, 9 and 10, becausethey've been watching my hustle.
Shay Cook (05:37):
Oh, I love that.
Yes, ditto, ditto, ditto.
You know I'm out here holy,hustling every day, spreading
the gospel through what I do.
I just thank God that it as apassion, crusaders for change
and personal finance, butbringing people through the Lord
, through Yahweh's money andjust through me as a person,
them feeling my spirit and mysoul.
That is intertwined with Godthat is speaking there.
So I love that.
(05:57):
That's the same thing you'resaying as a light.
That's amazing.
All right, so can ambition andcontentment coexist.
Dewan Clayborn (06:04):
Can ambition and contentment coexist?
I don't know about that one.
I mean, it makes me think aboutmy talk about the growth
mindset and the fixed mindset.
Contentment to me kind ofsounds like a fixed mindset.
Ambition is like the growthmindset, always looking for ways
(06:25):
to improve, to get better, youknow, failing forward.
So for me, if they do coexist,it has to be on a team or in a
relationship where peopleunderstand their roles and
they're great at what they cando.
And so when I say that I have ateam, I don't need everybody
(06:48):
who is a great innovator, I needa doer, I need a leader.
You need several differentlayers of different
characteristics on your team.
So now, as I think about it,maybe they can coexist based on
the culture of that environmentor that community or that team.
Shay Cook (07:06):
Yeah, and I agree and I love when you talk about the
growth and fixed mindset.
I've seen you speak on that onmany occasions and it's just
very inspiring.
And you're right, because I'vebeen more in the growth mindset.
But sometimes you got to take abreak, you got to be a little
content, you got to give yougratitude and be thankful to God
for it.
I never do that, but I do.
Let me take that back.
I am grateful and thankful allthe times.
(07:26):
I never take a break.
That's what I mean y'all.
But I'm always every day.
Now I wake up, I'm thanking Godand praising God all day long.
If it's not every second, whichis I'm getting them, trying to
get there, that's the goal, butit's every hour or minute
because I'm so blessed.
But the ambition is alwaysthere.
And the other day I was talkingabout finances and stuff with
(07:49):
this business program in GoldmanSachs and they were talking
about being conservative anddreaming when it comes to
projecting your numbers and youknow I've always dreamed that's
part of who I am.
This is my makeup is dreamingbig because I serve in an
amazing God.
We can talk about that more indiscussion side.
I mean, this is supposed to berapid fire, Shay.
Okay, the last question haveyou ever felt tension between
(08:12):
your faith and your financialgoals?
Dewan Clayborn (08:15):
Yes, I hate to be so blunt, you know, but it
started really with this rolethat I'm in.
I, to be blunt, took a $50,000pay cut.
I could have said you know no,but I truly felt God was calling
me here to Central Maryland.
The huge testimonial is thatwhat I was making in Texas that
(08:36):
took me three and a half yearsyeah, I started with the $50,000
pay cut here, but within oneyear he restored it all.
So he said touan, I'll takewhat took you three and a half
years.
If you have faith in me, I'llget that back to you in one year
.
And so that's probably been oneof the most eye-opening
(08:57):
testimonials that I've beensharing with people.
Just about, like, focus onbeing where God wants you at,
the money will come, the awardswill come.
Like don't allow those shinyobjects to take you off course,
because you're looking at, oh,it's only paying.
This Focus on being inalignment, where God wants you
(09:19):
to be at, and the blessings are,like inevitable.
Shay Cook (09:23):
That is so true.
And y'all, he has the numbers,the financials, the memberships
and all that to back all of that.
So that's what I'm talkingabout.
God is amazing.
This man came in For real.
Dewan Clayborn (09:36):
For real, for real.
Thank you, jesus.
Shay Cook (09:38):
Amen, amen, all right , well, let's get into the main
discussion of talking about thisholy hustle, balancing faith
and financial vision, becausey'all people are suffering.
They're trying to serve God andstuff, but they're also trying
to serve money and other idols,and we're only supposed to serve
one God, right, if you believein the Christian faith, or even
many other faiths that I'vestudied.
(09:58):
It's one right, but a lot of usout here are struggling.
So I mean, the differencebetween godly ambition and
selfish ambition is I mean thatspeaks for itself Like God is
leading you, the obediencefactor right, versus what you
think you need.
God is the author, he's thecreator.
So we just out here, we editingthings right, right, yeah, how
do you feel about thatdifference?
Dewan Clayborn (10:20):
Basically, at the end of the day, you know you
got to have your scriptures.
So, like for me, like, let'sjust say, when I took the
$50,000 pay cut, moved my wifeup here, like all those things,
I led on a scripture God willsupply all of my needs according
to his riches and glory, all ofmy needs according to his
(10:40):
riches and glory.
So if I know that it doesn'tmatter if I take a hundred
thousand dollar pay cut, I'mhaving the faith because he has
me here.
He will supply all of my needsaccording to his riches and
glory.
And so I just feel like in life, whatever you're going through,
you got to find that word orthat scripture that can combat
that.
That's one of mine.
If there's anything like aboutmoney and when you talk about
money, I'll tell you this Iheard this from a pastor If you
(11:03):
are not paying your tithes andofferings first off, tithes and
offerings are the basics of aChristian, the basics and I know
everybody's going to be like,oh, I give to this organization.
I'm not talking about that.
We're talking about sowing intothe kingdom, tithing off and
(11:25):
paying your 10% to the church.
That's the body of Christ.
So if you're not doing thatconsistently.
You haven't even seen an inchof God's faith in His glory and
where he can do it for your life.
There's another scripture.
The word says when you show Godyou're faithful with little
things, he'll bless you withgreater things.
So, how can you expect to grow amillion dollar company or to
create a multimillion dollarfamily or break generational
(11:48):
curses, when what he's entrustedyou with you haven't been
faithful with?
Amen, amen, amen, I would sayfor anybody and I've been bad at
this too not paying tithes andoffering.
When I didn't pay it, I wasalways looking at my bank
account.
When I paid them consistently,it's like I always had money.
(12:09):
Yeah, don't follow the worldthings about not paying tithes
and offering.
Just know that's the basics ofChristianity and I promise you,
if you start and do itconsistently, you will just
start seeing increaseseverywhere.
And that's even from like mytestimony I gave earlier about
you know, my eight cut and guesswhat?
(12:30):
I still tied.
Guess what?
The enemy tried to come at meand was like, oh, you're not
even making enough money now.
No, the devil is alive.
I'm going to keep sowing myseeds.
And I started sowing them seedsand thanking him for my
promotion, speaking to thoseseeds, and then again, a year
later, thank you Jesus.
He took what took me three anda half years and got me back
(12:51):
there in one year.
So tithes and offerings is theway to go.
Shay Cook (12:56):
Yes, I have not shared this publicly.
I too have cut back my salaryto try to grow my business
significantly, to the point whenmy husband and I we did our
taxes with our CPA, he was likewhat you only pay yourself that?
Yeah, because I wanted to putit into business, I kept my
tithes and offerings at the sameamount that it was when I was
paying myself the tithe.
Wow, thank you, jesus.
Dewan Clayborn (13:14):
Wow.
Thank you, Jesus.
Shay Cook (13:16):
Because it's like why ?
Well, I mean, I'm going to keepdoing that and I keep cutting
back?
I know I did cut back on myretirement, on it because God
was like you know what God is myretirement, even though I do?
I, you know I'm all forretirements 401k, sebs.
You know, investing, I'm allfor that.
But sometimes you just got totake it.
Like you said just make sureGod you give into the kingdom,
(13:37):
give it to God and he willprovide.
He always does.
And I have gone back and forth.
Both my parents are ordainedministers, reverends, and I've
talked to them at length,especially my father, about
tithing.
You know there's been seasonswhere I had to cut back and
you're right, that was the most.
That's the times when I wasworried.
But when I didn't cut back andI was just faithful God always,
(13:58):
and money would come fromsomewhere else, I'd get this
thing, get that contract, getthat.
And I'm like what?
I didn't even know this wascoming.
Dewan Clayborn (14:05):
Exactly, exactly .
And you know, like I hope mywife don't get mad at me that's
the first thing we have to workthrough, because you know, when
you get married and you're aunion, you know if the enemy
can't come to me, he's going togo out to my wife.
So I had to then like startworking with her, like hey, you
know, we both got paid today.
(14:27):
Let's both, you know, pay ourtithes and offerings.
So like even practicing thatwith your, you know, significant
other, your spouse, your kids,it just helps, like the whole
entire household.
Go ahead and get thosepractices in place, because I'm
telling you, I've heard a personsay before, like you can give a
broke person money, a milliondollars, and they'll still go
(14:47):
back broke just because that'sjust their.
Shay Cook (14:50):
That's their mindset, yeah.
Dewan Clayborn (14:52):
And they don't know how to manage it.
Shay Cook (14:53):
It's a mindset.
They don't know how to manageit.
That's where Crusaders forChange can come in.
You know, but yeah, you know,but yeah, and that's true, and I
mean hustling can hurt yourspiritual life.
I mean some people get caughtup and they forget, they stop
tithing, they stop reading theword, they start going to church
.
I mean all of those things.
And again, I'm not here to judge.
Y'all do what you do, but Iknow things that are required by
(15:20):
God from the obedience.
And he told me this year Shay,only you only got two goals this
year and I'm going to repeatthis throughout this whole year
on this podcast obedience andself-care.
He's like you need to becausemy, my husband I keep he's funny
, I keep calling God my husbandbecause he, even though I got a
husband in the physical life,but my counselor husband, my
Lord, my Father, god, he's veryclear that I need to obey.
And when I get into the hustlemindset, as I had when I was in
(15:42):
my 20s and 40s, it was all aboutmaking that money, it was all
about getting that status, thatgrade, that promotion, that
award, and it's like God's like,what are you doing out here?
I'm going to take care of you?
What are you chasing right now?
You should be chasing me.
Dewan Clayborn (15:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah .
Shay Cook (15:56):
Have you ever had it hurt you?
Dewan Clayborn (15:58):
Yeah, hustling is different, because my
hustling is more so about goingto organizations that are broken
and fixing it, and so it's easyto go to an organization that's
working right.
Everybody just wants to hey,yeah, hire me for that.
But God has a calling for me togo to these structures that are
(16:20):
broken and then refix them.
You have to have numerous ofconversations, difficult
conversations, I mean.
You get targets on your back,people that don't like you.
You get a lot of people thatlove you, though, when you turn
around, my hustle is differentbecause it's like to me, this is
hustling, Because I say thatlike I don't even know how I
(16:41):
would act if I walked into anorganization that was perfect
and I just kicked my foot in it.
Shay Cook (16:46):
You ain't going to have to do that.
The guy's not going to lead youto that.
Dewan Clayborn (16:49):
Yeah, yeah, you know I wouldn't even be
comfortable.
I've learned to actuallyembrace this hustle because now
I'm able to meet people at alldifferent levels.
More than anything, I love themomentum that you take someone
who's maybe your organizationhas a laughingstock and then
(17:10):
bring them at the top, where nowthey are kind of like that
underdog story, right, thingslike that.
So I've learned to just embraceit, enjoy it and shoot man,
let's get the hustle going, Iguess.
Shay Cook (17:24):
I mean, I know I've been hustling.
I come from a family ofhustlers.
My mama's a hustler, you know.
And so, man, yes, I never lookat it like that, like man, all
the things I've done work forthe government, all those things
, man, I come in, I'm takingthings and doing great things
and building things, and youknow I'm an architect, all that
but I've been hustling throughthat Because, first of all,
being a Black woman, a Black manin America, that's what we got
(17:46):
to do, because these peopleain't trying to make it easy.
So sometimes you got to justhustle, just to hustle, just to
get to where you need to be.
Dewan Clayborn (18:00):
And work and work three, four, five, six
times harder, which is hustling.
The type of faith I'm workingon now is that I got so much
faith that if I fail it's justgoing to be bad, because you got
to think about it.
You know, if I'm going toorganizations that are broken,
paycheck to paycheck, moving myfamily out there, that's
literally calling things that benot as though they were until
they are, because I'm having afaith that God's going to use me
(18:21):
, bring the right people aroundme, bring me the resources,
bring my family resources tosurvive and thrive.
Otherwise, if it doesn't happen, then I'm just probably on the
street somewhere.
Shay Cook (18:33):
But that has not happened, because you serve an
amazing God and you fail forwardand we have to make mistakes
sometimes, but he ain't going tolead you the wrong way.
If he told you you need to besomewhere, he going to make sure
you got all the resources youneed to take care of yourself
and your family.
Amen, so you'll be fine.
I mean, you even had a cousinout here, so if anything ever
happened, you got your cousinRight.
Dewan Clayborn (18:56):
Right, it's funny I actually got another
cousin.
He's moving here in August.
Yeah, I'm going to have likeanother first cousin that's here
I love that.
Hopefully I'm bringing a wholegroup of my family out here, oh
that's wonderful.
Shay Cook (19:10):
That's wonderful.
So let's talk about thepressure to constantly grind in
today's culture and trustingGod's timing.
Right, I mean, I'm telling you,I love that you and your wife
went to Italy.
You took a break.
I saw your signature blog whenI sent you your out-of-office
message.
It was beautiful.
We as leaders and I'mparaphrasing but we have to take
breaks.
We have to give God his timeand take that, because that
(19:32):
grind can make you, you can burnout.
So how do you keep from burningout?
How do you constantly deal withthis pressure of you?
Know the culture that you gotto grind and grind, and grind
and not take breaks and you gotto work a hundred hours a day.
Dewan Clayborn (19:43):
First thing, I had to learn to do is set
healthy boundaries.
I'm one of those guys that like, if I'm like at work emailing,
I'm like a quick respondent, youare.
So my 15, 20 minutes respondlike quick with it.
You know.
But setting boundaries, I hadto like stop training people to
respond quick.
So after five I stopped takingmy laptop home.
(20:05):
Oh nice, you don't finisheverything at five, mm-hmm, I
have to do it tomorrow.
So then that made me be moreintentional through the work day
.
I don't have time to be textingand doing like my stuff is so
booked out.
So I would say setting healthyboundaries around.
Hey, when you're off,completely being off work my mom
(20:28):
, she gets on me a lot becauseshe's like Dwayne, are you off
or are you working?
I said no, listen.
I got an out of office email.
I told my team what to doWhatever happens while I'm gone.
When I get back I can fix it,you know.
But truly, unplugging was greatand it was amazing and I came
back pumped up and like ready toget back to the hustle.
Shay Cook (20:49):
Good, you're young, so how you deal with this social
media, you know how they arealways pressuring us.
You know the influence outthere, that everybody's working
hard, all these people that welook up to, or maybe not, but
still like the rappers, theentertainers, whoever they may
be, oprah, jay-z, whoever youknow and they're really out
there grinding.
But how do you keep that?
It's just the boundaries.
Dewan Clayborn (21:10):
Yeah, well, and see, social media is another set
of boundaries.
Shay Cook (21:13):
Yeah, that's, very true.
Dewan Clayborn (21:15):
Yeah, and I'm blessed because I've always had
like a big following through,like sports and stuff.
I always knew how to like and Isay this in a good way but
manipulate social media Like.
I always knew that it's a look,because I always had a lot of
followers.
So I always knew, like thepeople that are making it look
like, oh, my life is so good.
(21:35):
A lot of times it's not, youknow.
So I was able to always kind ofsee through the shenanigans.
I never had the problem oflooking at somebody's life and
be like man, I should be here orI should be there, because some
of those people that you mighteven know personally and I feel
like everybody has those friendsthat are like on social media.
They look all put together butit's like I know you in real
(21:58):
life, you know, and so justknowing, just knowing that guess
what?
There are a lot of people likethat.
A lot of times you just can'tcompare yourself to others and
you know just from a, you know agodly standpoint.
All of us were blessed with oneunique gift and because
somebody else's isn't mine or mygift isn't someone else's, be
(22:23):
supportive when somebody isdoing good.
Granted, your time might not behere but you'll have your time.
But learning to basically notstop your blessings by having
ill will, greed like negativeintent or jealousy over someone
else, but cheering them on,that's another way that I've
(22:44):
kind of kept myself from youknow, falling into the, you know
the new times of social mediaand all the nice and shiny
objects and trying to keep upwith the Joneses.
Shay Cook (22:55):
I love that and that's same here, Same here.
First of all, I don't have time.
I don't have time when I didhave time back in the day
scrolling through Facebook, backway back when Facebook came out
and I'm like, what am I doingright now, Two, three hours
later?
I think the worst thing I doright now like I give myself
once a month to be able toscroll through babies and dogs,
that's it.
I don't care about nobody else'slife and there might be a
(23:18):
Beyonce video here, this, that,but most of the times it's
little babies cracking up forthe first time or whatever doing
something crazy, and dogs LikeI get off on that.
But outside of that, I don'thave time to look at everybody
else's life because I got my ownlife to live.
You know what I mean.
Dewan Clayborn (23:31):
And then, like you said, I have family members
out here shining like they quoteunquote.
And then you, when they come toyour house, they're like oh,
it's me, but you were just onInstagram, but they check in
your class, right, respectfully?
I don't mean that rude tonobody.
Shay Cook (23:53):
They know who we talking about and they need to
figure that out.
They need to talk to God aboutthat, because that's like really
and you're right about havingthat gift Like we need to focus
on what God has given us and notcompare and do the best that
you can with what God, thankinghim for it and utilizing it and
getting the gospel of the wordout there.
And that's the focus taking careof yourself and your family,
(24:13):
your friends, living life.
You know, even though it's alot of crap going on in the
world right now, trying to findgood in every day.
Today, recently, I used toalways say hope, all is well.
I said have a wonderful day onpurpose, Because I think people
are just letting things justcome at them.
No, you got to be intentionalin this life, because if you're
not, it's going to eat you up.
Dewan Clayborn (24:31):
The devil is real and it's all spiritual
warfare.
You know what I mean.
Like we don't battle with fleshand blood, but like
principality.
So like you got to put thatwhole breastplate of
righteousness over yourself,your family, in the morning.
You don't just do it as itcomes.
You got to set the tone for thedevil.
The word says resist the devil,he shall flee from you.
(24:52):
So you got to start off yourday with that and resist him
from any shape, form or fashion.
Start off your day with thatand resist him from any shape,
form or fashion he comes andthen walk around with that
boldness and know that he can'ttouch you because you already
resist him.
But you got to do that in themorning.
Start your day off right withthat word and I promise you
watch how much different y'all'sdays go my God, hallelujah Amen
(25:15):
.
I can say Amen, I needed this.
Shay Cook (25:18):
Lately I've been going around being like I rebuke
you in the name of Jesus, likedevil, like cause it be trying
to attack you through the healthissues, the politic issues, the
job issues, even dealing withnegotiations, whatever it may be
.
It's been trying to attack usand I'm like I rebuke you in the
(25:40):
name of Jesus.
I'm resisting you, we're notgoing to you.
Dewan Clayborn (25:42):
Stay away from my family.
You stay away from my money.
Shay Cook (25:43):
You stay away from all of that.
I don't have time for it.
I know who I serve, and itain't you devil.
Okay, so yes.
Dewan Clayborn (25:47):
The word says be fruitful, multiply, replenish
the earth and then guess what,subdue it.
So we're supposed to conquerevery industry, every area,
every community, Like, subdue it.
That means you bringing thatlight in there, you boldly
letting it shine.
You know, so like and I'm notsaying you when I say you, you
(26:09):
know, just for our people, ouraudience.
You got to get in their word,though the way how I can, like,
say it is because I meditated onit and of course life has life
that made me find thesescriptures.
If you could get it meditatedon beforehand it's even better.
But you gotta, you gotta, yeah,exactly.
(26:30):
But once you get that word inyou, it's going to be so much
easier to win those spiritualbattles because, guess what?
It's going to be so much easierto win those spiritual battles
because, guess what, it's noteven a battle, because God has
already won it for us.
Shay Cook (26:41):
Amen, he already won it for us.
And how do we set goals withGod in mind around our budget,
our career and business outside?
You know, you said theboundaries, the word.
What else Any other resourcesor tips and tricks you have?
Dewan Clayborn (26:53):
This is something that you know me and
my wife do you know we do like aspiritual goal, like personally
, and then like a couplespiritual goals, oh nice.
So like, one thing for mepersonally spiritually is to
more speak in tongues more, atleast three to five times a week
.
Currently I kind of just do it,you know, maybe I'm at church
(27:14):
and the word is speaking to meand I get to do it.
But speaking in the spirit isreally so important that a lot
of people don't do and that'sdirect communication with God
that the enemy can't evenunderstand.
So that's one of my likespiritual personal goals.
And then this year our goal asa family was to pray together
(27:35):
once a day, every morning.
So like my wife and I were kindof doing our own little prayers
but like, as you know, Istarted seeing, you know, god
blesses a union.
So what the devil going to do?
He's going to try to attackthat and break up whatever.
So, like I'm, like you know what, no, I need to put that shield
of faith around me and my wife.
So our goal was to, like youknow, start praying together in
(27:58):
the morning, and so those werelike a couple of our spiritual
goals.
So we picked one individuallyand then one as a couple, and
honestly it's helped uspersonally and as a couple, just
continue to grow more inalignment with God and truly
figure out like who he wants usto be as a couple, you know, and
I love that and that's great.
Shay Cook (28:19):
And I would add that you know, you talk to God about
your goals.
Guys like out there, you know,just say all right, lord, this
is what I want.
But guess what, if he, if youwant that, that's probably
because he, you know, probablyhe put it in it.
Okay, we need to honor that,like this ain't new, this ain't
new to him.
And he's like, oh, I want this.
(28:39):
Okay, God gave that in yourspirit.
Okay, you need to talk to himthrough it so he can talk you
through it and obey him when hegives you an opportunity.
And I'm talking to myself,because God gave me this
opportunity with Goldman Sachs.
He's been telling me about itfor nine years and for nine
years I was saying no.
From 2016 until 2024,.
I was like, hmm, so eight years?
I was like, uh, no, I ain'tready.
I am in an amazing.
(29:01):
I'm going to have to do anepisode on just Goldman Sachs
and what God has done with methrough that program.
Dewan Clayborn (29:06):
But because you know obedience.
Shay Cook (29:09):
I was like Lord.
I kept on saying, no, I'm notready, I'm not ready.
And God was like man.
And God was like man.
You already, I give you, I'mgoing to give you what you need
to be ready.
So to me it's go to God witheverything you need your budget,
your career, your business,your family, your health.
He will provide.
And don't let that hustle orthe ambition get in the way of
you being next to God.
And it's good to have healthyambition Ain't nothing wrong
(29:31):
with that.
But you got to consider otherpeople too as well, Because we
know we out here and people areall thinking about themselves
too much and as they say 59% of.
Americans feel burnt out fromhustle culture, so we don't want
everybody to be burnt out here,not being able to be in their
great mind and their great selfto give to it.
So, duann, that was amazing.
(29:51):
Thank you so much, man.
Dewan Clayborn (29:53):
My pleasure.
Shay Cook (29:54):
How can people follow you?
Let's talk about your book alittle bit too, and all the
great things you're doingoutside of Central Maryland.
Dewan Clayborn (29:58):
So, yeah, so I believe in being an expert in
whatever craft you are in, andso my space that God has called
me in is the association world,nonprofit world.
And so because of that, yes, Ihave a book called the Next
Generation of NonprofitLeadership where I talk about
ways how I turn organizationsaround.
(30:19):
I talk about ways where, if youhave a culture, you're trying
to fix it, how to create awinning culture.
I talk about ways where two ofmy previous staff members are
now present CEOs of their ownchamber commerce.
So how to recruit and retaintop talent.
You know I talk about boardengagement.
Recruit and retain top talent.
(30:40):
You know I talk about boardengagement, so anything that as
a leader of a nonprofitorganization or a up and rising
executive, if you have goals ofrising through the ranks.
I talk about all those stepsaround, kind of my biography,
because I started as a directorof special events to now being a
president, ceo and talked aboutoffice politics.
You know all the things Ididn't even know about by coming
(31:04):
into this industry.
So, yeah, you can get that bookand you can order from
wwwJewanClaybournecom.
Of course it's on Amazon andstuff, but Jeff Bezos has enough
money.
Go to my website and get it.
Go to my website and get it.
Amen, go to my website and getit.
Otherwise, I'm super easy tofind on LinkedIn, you know
DeJuanClaybournecom.
(31:24):
Same on Facebook.
And if you just need aninspiring word every morning,
follow me.
I'm putting it in people's face.
I am bold about God, I'm boldabout these blessings and I'm
bold about being called toconquer.
Shay Cook (31:39):
I know that is right and you know what guys follow
him for real Cause I see it onLinkedIn and I know what we
talked about this before.
Some people like why are youputting that on there?
Why shouldn't he?
He should be, and guess what?
That gets a lot of engagementbecause people need that word.
They need that encouragement,that motivation, because we got
a lot of darkness out here rightnow, and so seeing DeJuan
(31:59):
seeing that and be like, yes,yes, like, and just seeing the
engagement, even reading thecomments you give, you get
inspired, thank you, and that'sthe thing we got to stop trying
to do stuff alone.
Dewan Clayborn (32:10):
You know, like we have to like realize there
are community of good people, ofgood godly people.
You know I'll say moving awayfrom Houston was so good to me
because, like the culture thereis, like you know people,
there's so many divorces Likeyou will kind of go there and
think people can't havesuccessful marriages so I had to
(32:30):
.
That's another part of thewhole thing of getting married
and relocating up here, seeing alot of successful marriages,
black couples, happy couples,like thank God, my wife and I,
our parents, are still marriedand we have that as an origin.
But like today's society, basedon where you are, you won't
think that that's normal, youknow, and so like that's a whole
(32:51):
nother thing.
Find that community ofbelievers, of Christian couples,
be around that community ofbelievers of Christian couples,
be around that.
There's a whole positive upliftin that type of fellowship that
God wants us to have with oneanother, fellowshiping with one
another and other believers.
Shay Cook (33:08):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I come from a family of manylong marriages.
My grandparents are 63.
Parents, I think they're goingon 48.
And my husband and I 26recently.
Dewan Clayborn (33:18):
See, there we go .
Shay Cook (33:19):
It's so important because you cannot do life alone
and having a partner to go withyou it's not like anything else
.
It really is Best decision Imade.
Best decision I made.
Dewan Clayborn (33:30):
It's funny because you know my wife
Brittany, of course oppositesattract, right, yeah, of course.
And it's funny when she meetspeople out here.
They're like, so are you likehim?
And so I'm like, what does likehim mean?
You know what I mean, but she'slike, no, I'm not.
But anyway, I want to like goand like do these podcasts and
(33:51):
tell these men, like at my age,like it's so much better, like
being faithful, get married,best decision I made, you know.
But she's just like she don'twant to out of this shit.
Shay Cook (34:01):
So eventually, maybe, hopefully, that will be a
ministry we can create, if not,you know you're small your
circles, and they're not smallat all, but do it in your
circles, through the chamber andjust going taking people out to
, like you know, you meet ayoung brother, young person like
let's go to dinner, let's talkabout this, and they'll see it
in you, though, and they see howyou and your wife love each
other, you know and have funwith each other, enjoy each
(34:22):
other and be like.
They want that, and it's a goodinfluence, and that's what I've
seen and shout out to my husbandtoday's his birthday, july 31st
okay, happy birthday happybirthday, nate and so you know I
told him, even though he'll be50 in two years, but I was like
I can't believe I'm about to bemarried to a 50-year-old.
Stop it.
Dewan Clayborn (34:36):
50 to new 30.
50 to new 30.
Shay Cook (34:41):
I'm married to an old man, I ain't never thought
about that 26 years ago.
I'm like what.
But either way, God has beengood that we've enjoyed this.
Dewan Clayborn (34:49):
It's been struggles.
Shay Cook (34:50):
It's not easy and that's the problem.
Another thing people we need toand that's another episode the
misconception of marriage, ofbeing this beautiful all the
time.
It's going to be some uglythings going on, but guess what?
Even through the ugly there'sbeautiful stuff that you're
going to learn about yourselfand you grow.
Me and my husband came intothis marriage.
We were children we were 20some years old or young, and now
we're adults and we've growntogether.
(35:12):
We got a 24 year old daughter.
We got a beautiful lifetogether and it's still getting
struggles.
I ain't going to act like it'snot, but God has been good, you
know.
And that ambition came throughthe marriage and all of that.
We empowered, we upgraded eachother, we uplifted each other,
and so I would add that.
You know, god isn't againstambition, he just wants to guide
it right and the whole hustle.
(35:33):
Marriage, it means working withexcellence and purpose, not
exhaustion.
That could be anything in yourlife, your business, your
marriage, your health, yourfamily, whatever.
He wants you to be ambitious,to take you to the next level,
yeah, and if you're?
Dewan Clayborn (35:46):
at a, even at a company that you're, let's say,
you got a bad boss or you don'tnecessarily like what you do.
It's not about them, it's notabout your boss, it's about you
as a child of God that wants toproduce excellence, because God
created excellence.
And so, even if you're not evenat the spot where you want to
(36:07):
be yet, still you'rerepresenting God and people are
watching.
So, always, always, produceexcellence, because God is
excellence.
Shay Cook (36:17):
Amen.
Any final thoughts?
Holy hustle.
Dewan Clayborn (36:20):
I like it.
You know you might get bumped,you might get bruised, but at
the end of the day, God will doexceedingly, abundantly.
Above all, you can ask, thinkor imagine, and so just have the
faith and he will truly callyou to conquer.
Shay Cook (36:37):
All right, Ain't that a word?
Thank you, Mr DeJuan Claiborne.
That was amazing.
Thank you, man.
I just want to give you all acall to action before we wrap
this episode this week.
Take 10 minutes to pray overyour goals and ask, aren't these
led by God or by pressure?
And then adjust your one goalto reflect on more faith-driven
ambition.
So thank you for joining ustoday.
(36:58):
Hope you have a wonderful day.
We'll see you soon.
Dewan Clayborn (37:01):
See you soon.
Thanks again, Shay.
Shay Cook (37:05):
A big thank you for listening to this episode.
We hope you found today's chatabout the intersection of
religion and money insightful.
We would love to hear yourfeedback.
Hit that subscribe button orfollow the podcast and please
feel free to leave us a reviewFor the latest Yahweh's Money
content, visit us atcrusaders4changeorg or find us
(37:27):
anywhere you listen to podcasts.
Until next time, stayfinancially fit and spiritually
inspired and remember it'salways better Yahweh's way.
My hustling is more so about going to
organizations that are brokenand fixing it, and so it's easy
to go to an organization that'sworking right.
Everybody would just wants tohey, yeah, hire me for that, but
God has a calling for me to goto these structures that are
(00:22):
broken and then refix them.
To go to these structures thatare broken and then refix them,
you have to have numerous ofconversations, difficult
conversations, I mean.
You get targets on your back,people that don't like you.
You get a lot of people thatlove you, though when you turn
around, my hustle is different,because it's like to me this is
hustling.
(00:42):
I say that like I don't evenknow how I would act if I walked
into an organization that wasperfect.
Shay Cook (00:48):
Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and
money come up?
You're not alone.
Welcome to Yahweh's Money, thepodcast where we tackle the
crossroads of faith and finance.
I'm Shay Cook, an accreditedfinancial counselor and the CEO
and founder of Crusaders forChange LLC.
Join us on our journey as wediscuss topics like tithing,
(01:09):
saving and conquering debtthrough religious perspectives.
Let's get started.
Hey everyone, welcome back toanother episode of Yahweh's
Money.
I'm so happy to be here today.
God is so amazing.
In today's world, ambition oftengets a bad rap and face circles
.
But is it wrong to want more?
(01:30):
Can we chase goals, buildwealth and grow careers while
still honoring God?
Let's talk about the holyhustle.
So the main scripture fortoday's episode is Colossians 3,
23 to 24.
Whatever you do, work heartilyas for the Lord and not for men.
Knowing that from the Lord youwill receive the inheritance of
(01:51):
your reward, you are serving theLord Christ.
So this scripture reminds usthat our ambition and hustle
aren't for status or applause,but should be rooted in service
to God.
It reframes success as worshipwhen done with the right heart.
So I am so proud to have heretoday our Central Maryland
(02:12):
Chamber President and CEO, DewanClayborn.
He is like a brother fromanother mother.
I had the privilege of being apart of his national search and
bring him on to this amazingchamber.
Welcome, Dewan Clayborn.
How are you doing?
Dewan Clayborn (02:26):
I'm doing great.
Thank you so much for having meExcited to be here and looking
forward to jumping into things.
Shay Cook (02:33):
I know We've had so many amazing conversations over
a year now, over a year thatwe've known each other.
It's crazy.
Time goes by fast, man y'all.
I came into Central MarylandChamber as a chair of the board
back in January of 24, threeweeks later the CEO and
president told me she's leaving,and now I got to be a part of
the search and the managementand all that.
(02:54):
But it turned out to be God'scalling, because he knew he was
bringing this brother to ourchamber.
To take it to another level,I'm telling you, if you ain't
part of Central Maryland Chamber, you need to join today.
It is an amazing chamber and Ilove it and I tell everybody
about it.
So I'm just happy for you to behere.
Tell us more about you.
Dewan Clayborn (03:11):
Before I do start yes, thank you.
You know you've been a bigsister I've never had.
In true leadership, it takes aleader that also knows how to
follow, and one thing that youdid that was really a spark for
me is that after the search,after the transition, after I
started, you said, hey, dejuan,I'm going to just focus on
(03:33):
keeping people out of your wayso you can do your job, and to a
lot of leaders that doesn'thappen.
So thank you for being thatbackbone, that muscle and
everything.
And so, yes, dejuan Claiborne,I'm from Little Rock, Arkansas,
just recently got married to mybeautiful wife, brittany
Claiborne.
We relocated here to Marylandand so we are super excited to
(03:56):
be here I have other familymembers here in the DMV and so
excited to talk about all things, about Holy Hustle and how we
are truly here because we'recalled to conquer.
Shay Cook (04:08):
Amen, amen, yeah, shout out to Brittany.
She's a lovely, amazing blackwoman.
And you said Merlin, ok, he'sbeen part of us now.
Dewan Clayborn (04:20):
He said, merlin, I love it, that's what it is.
Shay Cook (04:23):
All right, now let's get into our rapid fire
questions.
Dewan Clayborn (04:27):
Take your seat, let the wisdom inherit.
Let's hit the rapid fire.
Questions Say what's on yourspirit.
Take your seat, let the wisdominherit.
Shay Cook (04:44):
Let's hit the rapid fire questions Say what's on
your spirit.
So we got three quick questionsoff the dome.
Don't think about it too much.
Our first question is what doesholy hustle mean to you?
Dewan Clayborn (04:58):
Holy hustle means to me is honestly like
allowing your light to shine,and so when I said that, I
opened up and said we are calledto conquer, and what I mean by
that is God puts us in areas togo and take territory.
So for me, he planted me inCentral Maryland to take
(05:22):
territory, to be a light in thisdark world, to allow my light
to shine to wherever I go.
People interact with me andknow something's different, and
that allows me the opportunityto bring the holy peace in which
is tell them about Christ.
Romans 10, 9 and 10, becausethey've been watching my hustle.
Shay Cook (05:37):
Oh, I love that.
Yes, ditto, ditto, ditto.
You know I'm out here holy,hustling every day, spreading
the gospel through what I do.
I just thank God that it as apassion, crusaders for change
and personal finance, butbringing people through the Lord
, through Yahweh's money andjust through me as a person,
them feeling my spirit and mysoul.
That is intertwined with Godthat is speaking there.
So I love that.
(05:57):
That's the same thing you'resaying as a light.
That's amazing.
All right, so can ambition andcontentment coexist.
Dewan Clayborn (06:04):
Can ambition and contentment coexist?
I don't know about that one.
I mean, it makes me think aboutmy talk about the growth
mindset and the fixed mindset.
Contentment to me kind ofsounds like a fixed mindset.
Ambition is like the growthmindset, always looking for ways
(06:25):
to improve, to get better, youknow, failing forward.
So for me, if they do coexist,it has to be on a team or in a
relationship where peopleunderstand their roles and
they're great at what they cando.
And so when I say that I have ateam, I don't need everybody
(06:48):
who is a great innovator, I needa doer, I need a leader.
You need several differentlayers of different
characteristics on your team.
So now, as I think about it,maybe they can coexist based on
the culture of that environmentor that community or that team.
Shay Cook (07:06):
Yeah, and I agree and I love when you talk about the
growth and fixed mindset.
I've seen you speak on that onmany occasions and it's just
very inspiring.
And you're right, because I'vebeen more in the growth mindset.
But sometimes you got to take abreak, you got to be a little
content, you got to give yougratitude and be thankful to God
for it.
I never do that, but I do.
Let me take that back.
I am grateful and thankful allthe times.
(07:26):
I never take a break.
That's what I mean y'all.
But I'm always every day.
Now I wake up, I'm thanking Godand praising God all day long.
If it's not every second, whichis I'm getting them, trying to
get there, that's the goal, butit's every hour or minute
because I'm so blessed.
But the ambition is alwaysthere.
And the other day I was talkingabout finances and stuff with
(07:49):
this business program in GoldmanSachs and they were talking
about being conservative anddreaming when it comes to
projecting your numbers and youknow I've always dreamed that's
part of who I am.
This is my makeup is dreamingbig because I serve in an
amazing God.
We can talk about that more indiscussion side.
I mean, this is supposed to berapid fire, Shay.
Okay, the last question haveyou ever felt tension between
(08:12):
your faith and your financialgoals?
Dewan Clayborn (08:15):
Yes, I hate to be so blunt, you know, but it
started really with this rolethat I'm in.
I, to be blunt, took a $50,000pay cut.
I could have said you know no,but I truly felt God was calling
me here to Central Maryland.
The huge testimonial is thatwhat I was making in Texas that
(08:36):
took me three and a half yearsyeah, I started with the $50,000
pay cut here, but within oneyear he restored it all.
So he said touan, I'll takewhat took you three and a half
years.
If you have faith in me, I'llget that back to you in one year
.
And so that's probably been oneof the most eye-opening
(08:57):
testimonials that I've beensharing with people.
Just about, like, focus onbeing where God wants you at,
the money will come, the awardswill come.
Like don't allow those shinyobjects to take you off course,
because you're looking at, oh,it's only paying.
This Focus on being inalignment, where God wants you
(09:19):
to be at, and the blessings are,like inevitable.
Shay Cook (09:23):
That is so true.
And y'all, he has the numbers,the financials, the memberships
and all that to back all of that.
So that's what I'm talkingabout.
God is amazing.
This man came in For real.
Dewan Clayborn (09:36):
For real, for real.
Thank you, jesus.
Shay Cook (09:38):
Amen, amen, all right , well, let's get into the main
discussion of talking about thisholy hustle, balancing faith
and financial vision, becausey'all people are suffering.
They're trying to serve God andstuff, but they're also trying
to serve money and other idols,and we're only supposed to serve
one God, right, if you believein the Christian faith, or even
many other faiths that I'vestudied.
(09:58):
It's one right, but a lot of usout here are struggling.
So I mean, the differencebetween godly ambition and
selfish ambition is I mean thatspeaks for itself Like God is
leading you, the obediencefactor right, versus what you
think you need.
God is the author, he's thecreator.
So we just out here, we editingthings right, right, yeah, how
do you feel about thatdifference?
Dewan Clayborn (10:20):
Basically, at the end of the day, you know you
got to have your scriptures.
So, like for me, like, let'sjust say, when I took the
$50,000 pay cut, moved my wifeup here, like all those things,
I led on a scripture God willsupply all of my needs according
to his riches and glory, all ofmy needs according to his
(10:40):
riches and glory.
So if I know that it doesn'tmatter if I take a hundred
thousand dollar pay cut, I'mhaving the faith because he has
me here.
He will supply all of my needsaccording to his riches and
glory.
And so I just feel like in life, whatever you're going through,
you got to find that word orthat scripture that can combat
that.
That's one of mine.
If there's anything like aboutmoney and when you talk about
money, I'll tell you this Iheard this from a pastor If you
(11:03):
are not paying your tithes andofferings first off, tithes and
offerings are the basics of aChristian, the basics and I know
everybody's going to be like,oh, I give to this organization.
I'm not talking about that.
We're talking about sowing intothe kingdom, tithing off and
(11:25):
paying your 10% to the church.
That's the body of Christ.
So if you're not doing thatconsistently.
You haven't even seen an inchof God's faith in His glory and
where he can do it for your life.
There's another scripture.
The word says when you show Godyou're faithful with little
things, he'll bless you withgreater things.
So, how can you expect to grow amillion dollar company or to
create a multimillion dollarfamily or break generational
(11:48):
curses, when what he's entrustedyou with you haven't been
faithful with?
Amen, amen, amen, I would sayfor anybody and I've been bad at
this too not paying tithes andoffering.
When I didn't pay it, I wasalways looking at my bank
account.
When I paid them consistently,it's like I always had money.
(12:09):
Yeah, don't follow the worldthings about not paying tithes
and offering.
Just know that's the basics ofChristianity and I promise you,
if you start and do itconsistently, you will just
start seeing increaseseverywhere.
And that's even from like mytestimony I gave earlier about
you know, my eight cut and guesswhat?
(12:30):
I still tied.
Guess what?
The enemy tried to come at meand was like, oh, you're not
even making enough money now.
No, the devil is alive.
I'm going to keep sowing myseeds.
And I started sowing them seedsand thanking him for my
promotion, speaking to thoseseeds, and then again, a year
later, thank you Jesus.
He took what took me three anda half years and got me back
(12:51):
there in one year.
So tithes and offerings is theway to go.
Shay Cook (12:56):
Yes, I have not shared this publicly.
I too have cut back my salaryto try to grow my business
significantly, to the point whenmy husband and I we did our
taxes with our CPA, he was likewhat you only pay yourself that?
Yeah, because I wanted to putit into business, I kept my
tithes and offerings at the sameamount that it was when I was
paying myself the tithe.
Wow, thank you, jesus.
Dewan Clayborn (13:14):
Wow.
Thank you, Jesus.
Shay Cook (13:16):
Because it's like why ?
Well, I mean, I'm going to keepdoing that and I keep cutting
back?
I know I did cut back on myretirement, on it because God
was like you know what God is myretirement, even though I do?
I, you know I'm all forretirements 401k, sebs.
You know, investing, I'm allfor that.
But sometimes you just got totake it.
Like you said just make sureGod you give into the kingdom,
(13:37):
give it to God and he willprovide.
He always does.
And I have gone back and forth.
Both my parents are ordainedministers, reverends, and I've
talked to them at length,especially my father, about
tithing.
You know there's been seasonswhere I had to cut back and
you're right, that was the most.
That's the times when I wasworried.
But when I didn't cut back andI was just faithful God always,
(13:58):
and money would come fromsomewhere else, I'd get this
thing, get that contract, getthat.
And I'm like what?
I didn't even know this wascoming.
Dewan Clayborn (14:05):
Exactly, exactly .
And you know, like I hope mywife don't get mad at me that's
the first thing we have to workthrough, because you know, when
you get married and you're aunion, you know if the enemy
can't come to me, he's going togo out to my wife.
So I had to then like startworking with her, like hey, you
know, we both got paid today.
(14:27):
Let's both, you know, pay ourtithes and offerings.
So like even practicing thatwith your, you know, significant
other, your spouse, your kids,it just helps, like the whole
entire household.
Go ahead and get thosepractices in place, because I'm
telling you, I've heard a personsay before, like you can give a
broke person money, a milliondollars, and they'll still go
(14:47):
back broke just because that'sjust their.
Shay Cook (14:50):
That's their mindset, yeah.
Dewan Clayborn (14:52):
And they don't know how to manage it.
Shay Cook (14:53):
It's a mindset.
They don't know how to manageit.
That's where Crusaders forChange can come in.
You know, but yeah, you know,but yeah, and that's true, and I
mean hustling can hurt yourspiritual life.
I mean some people get caughtup and they forget, they stop
tithing, they stop reading theword, they start going to church
.
I mean all of those things.
And again, I'm not here to judge.
Y'all do what you do, but Iknow things that are required by
(15:20):
God from the obedience.
And he told me this year Shay,only you only got two goals this
year and I'm going to repeatthis throughout this whole year
on this podcast obedience andself-care.
He's like you need to becausemy, my husband I keep he's funny
, I keep calling God my husbandbecause he, even though I got a
husband in the physical life,but my counselor husband, my
Lord, my Father, god, he's veryclear that I need to obey.
And when I get into the hustlemindset, as I had when I was in
(15:42):
my 20s and 40s, it was all aboutmaking that money, it was all
about getting that status, thatgrade, that promotion, that
award, and it's like God's like,what are you doing out here?
I'm going to take care of you?
What are you chasing right now?
You should be chasing me.
Dewan Clayborn (15:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah .
Shay Cook (15:56):
Have you ever had it hurt you?
Dewan Clayborn (15:58):
Yeah, hustling is different, because my
hustling is more so about goingto organizations that are broken
and fixing it, and so it's easyto go to an organization that's
working right.
Everybody just wants to hey,yeah, hire me for that.
But God has a calling for me togo to these structures that are
(16:20):
broken and then refix them.
You have to have numerous ofconversations, difficult
conversations, I mean.
You get targets on your back,people that don't like you.
You get a lot of people thatlove you, though, when you turn
around, my hustle is differentbecause it's like to me, this is
hustling, Because I say thatlike I don't even know how I
(16:41):
would act if I walked into anorganization that was perfect
and I just kicked my foot in it.
Shay Cook (16:46):
You ain't going to have to do that.
The guy's not going to lead youto that.
Dewan Clayborn (16:49):
Yeah, yeah, you know I wouldn't even be
comfortable.
I've learned to actuallyembrace this hustle because now
I'm able to meet people at alldifferent levels.
More than anything, I love themomentum that you take someone
who's maybe your organizationhas a laughingstock and then
(17:10):
bring them at the top, where nowthey are kind of like that
underdog story, right, thingslike that.
So I've learned to just embraceit, enjoy it and shoot man,
let's get the hustle going, Iguess.
Shay Cook (17:24):
I mean, I know I've been hustling.
I come from a family ofhustlers.
My mama's a hustler, you know.
And so, man, yes, I never lookat it like that, like man, all
the things I've done work forthe government, all those things
, man, I come in, I'm takingthings and doing great things
and building things, and youknow I'm an architect, all that
but I've been hustling throughthat Because, first of all,
being a Black woman, a Black manin America, that's what we got
(17:46):
to do, because these peopleain't trying to make it easy.
So sometimes you got to justhustle, just to hustle, just to
get to where you need to be.
Dewan Clayborn (18:00):
And work and work three, four, five, six
times harder, which is hustling.
The type of faith I'm workingon now is that I got so much
faith that if I fail it's justgoing to be bad, because you got
to think about it.
You know, if I'm going toorganizations that are broken,
paycheck to paycheck, moving myfamily out there, that's
literally calling things that benot as though they were until
they are, because I'm having afaith that God's going to use me
(18:21):
, bring the right people aroundme, bring me the resources,
bring my family resources tosurvive and thrive.
Otherwise, if it doesn't happen, then I'm just probably on the
street somewhere.
Shay Cook (18:33):
But that has not happened, because you serve an
amazing God and you fail forwardand we have to make mistakes
sometimes, but he ain't going tolead you the wrong way.
If he told you you need to besomewhere, he going to make sure
you got all the resources youneed to take care of yourself
and your family.
Amen, so you'll be fine.
I mean, you even had a cousinout here, so if anything ever
happened, you got your cousinRight.
Dewan Clayborn (18:56):
Right, it's funny I actually got another
cousin.
He's moving here in August.
Yeah, I'm going to have likeanother first cousin that's here
I love that.
Hopefully I'm bringing a wholegroup of my family out here, oh
that's wonderful.
Shay Cook (19:10):
That's wonderful.
So let's talk about thepressure to constantly grind in
today's culture and trustingGod's timing.
Right, I mean, I'm telling you,I love that you and your wife
went to Italy.
You took a break.
I saw your signature blog whenI sent you your out-of-office
message.
It was beautiful.
We as leaders and I'mparaphrasing but we have to take
breaks.
We have to give God his timeand take that, because that
(19:32):
grind can make you, you can burnout.
So how do you keep from burningout?
How do you constantly deal withthis pressure of you?
Know the culture that you gotto grind and grind, and grind
and not take breaks and you gotto work a hundred hours a day.
Dewan Clayborn (19:43):
First thing, I had to learn to do is set
healthy boundaries.
I'm one of those guys that like, if I'm like at work emailing,
I'm like a quick respondent, youare.
So my 15, 20 minutes respondlike quick with it.
You know.
But setting boundaries, I hadto like stop training people to
respond quick.
So after five I stopped takingmy laptop home.
(20:05):
Oh nice, you don't finisheverything at five, mm-hmm, I
have to do it tomorrow.
So then that made me be moreintentional through the work day
.
I don't have time to be textingand doing like my stuff is so
booked out.
So I would say setting healthyboundaries around.
Hey, when you're off,completely being off work my mom
(20:28):
, she gets on me a lot becauseshe's like Dwayne, are you off
or are you working?
I said no, listen.
I got an out of office email.
I told my team what to doWhatever happens while I'm gone.
When I get back I can fix it,you know.
But truly, unplugging was greatand it was amazing and I came
back pumped up and like ready toget back to the hustle.
Shay Cook (20:49):
Good, you're young, so how you deal with this social
media, you know how they arealways pressuring us.
You know the influence outthere, that everybody's working
hard, all these people that welook up to, or maybe not, but
still like the rappers, theentertainers, whoever they may
be, oprah, jay-z, whoever youknow and they're really out
there grinding.
But how do you keep that?
It's just the boundaries.
Dewan Clayborn (21:10):
Yeah, well, and see, social media is another set
of boundaries.
Shay Cook (21:13):
Yeah, that's, very true.
Dewan Clayborn (21:15):
Yeah, and I'm blessed because I've always had
like a big following through,like sports and stuff.
I always knew how to like and Isay this in a good way but
manipulate social media Like.
I always knew that it's a look,because I always had a lot of
followers.
So I always knew, like thepeople that are making it look
like, oh, my life is so good.
(21:35):
A lot of times it's not, youknow.
So I was able to always kind ofsee through the shenanigans.
I never had the problem oflooking at somebody's life and
be like man, I should be here orI should be there, because some
of those people that you mighteven know personally and I feel
like everybody has those friendsthat are like on social media.
They look all put together butit's like I know you in real
(21:58):
life, you know, and so justknowing, just knowing that guess
what?
There are a lot of people likethat.
A lot of times you just can'tcompare yourself to others and
you know just from a, you know agodly standpoint.
All of us were blessed with oneunique gift and because
somebody else's isn't mine or mygift isn't someone else's, be
(22:23):
supportive when somebody isdoing good.
Granted, your time might not behere but you'll have your time.
But learning to basically notstop your blessings by having
ill will, greed like negativeintent or jealousy over someone
else, but cheering them on,that's another way that I've
(22:44):
kind of kept myself from youknow, falling into the, you know
the new times of social mediaand all the nice and shiny
objects and trying to keep upwith the Joneses.
Shay Cook (22:55):
I love that and that's same here, Same here.
First of all, I don't have time.
I don't have time when I didhave time back in the day
scrolling through Facebook, backway back when Facebook came out
and I'm like, what am I doingright now, Two, three hours
later?
I think the worst thing I doright now like I give myself
once a month to be able toscroll through babies and dogs,
that's it.
I don't care about nobody else'slife and there might be a
(23:18):
Beyonce video here, this, that,but most of the times it's
little babies cracking up forthe first time or whatever doing
something crazy, and dogs LikeI get off on that.
But outside of that, I don'thave time to look at everybody
else's life because I got my ownlife to live.
You know what I mean.
Dewan Clayborn (23:31):
And then, like you said, I have family members
out here shining like they quoteunquote.
And then you, when they come toyour house, they're like oh,
it's me, but you were just onInstagram, but they check in
your class, right, respectfully?
I don't mean that rude tonobody.
Shay Cook (23:53):
They know who we talking about and they need to
figure that out.
They need to talk to God aboutthat, because that's like really
and you're right about havingthat gift Like we need to focus
on what God has given us and notcompare and do the best that
you can with what God, thankinghim for it and utilizing it and
getting the gospel of the wordout there.
And that's the focus taking careof yourself and your family,
(24:13):
your friends, living life.
You know, even though it's alot of crap going on in the
world right now, trying to findgood in every day.
Today, recently, I used toalways say hope, all is well.
I said have a wonderful day onpurpose, Because I think people
are just letting things justcome at them.
No, you got to be intentionalin this life, because if you're
not, it's going to eat you up.
Dewan Clayborn (24:31):
The devil is real and it's all spiritual
warfare.
You know what I mean.
Like we don't battle with fleshand blood, but like
principality.
So like you got to put thatwhole breastplate of
righteousness over yourself,your family, in the morning.
You don't just do it as itcomes.
You got to set the tone for thedevil.
The word says resist the devil,he shall flee from you.
(24:52):
So you got to start off yourday with that and resist him
from any shape, form or fashion.
Start off your day with thatand resist him from any shape,
form or fashion he comes andthen walk around with that
boldness and know that he can'ttouch you because you already
resist him.
But you got to do that in themorning.
Start your day off right withthat word and I promise you
watch how much different y'all'sdays go my God, hallelujah Amen
(25:15):
.
I can say Amen, I needed this.
Shay Cook (25:18):
Lately I've been going around being like I rebuke
you in the name of Jesus, likedevil, like cause it be trying
to attack you through the healthissues, the politic issues, the
job issues, even dealing withnegotiations, whatever it may be
.
It's been trying to attack usand I'm like I rebuke you in the
(25:40):
name of Jesus.
I'm resisting you, we're notgoing to you.
Dewan Clayborn (25:42):
Stay away from my family.
You stay away from my money.
Shay Cook (25:43):
You stay away from all of that.
I don't have time for it.
I know who I serve, and itain't you devil.
Okay, so yes.
Dewan Clayborn (25:47):
The word says be fruitful, multiply, replenish
the earth and then guess what,subdue it.
So we're supposed to conquerevery industry, every area,
every community, Like, subdue it.
That means you bringing thatlight in there, you boldly
letting it shine.
You know, so like and I'm notsaying you when I say you, you
(26:09):
know, just for our people, ouraudience.
You got to get in their word,though the way how I can, like,
say it is because I meditated onit and of course life has life
that made me find thesescriptures.
If you could get it meditatedon beforehand it's even better.
But you gotta, you gotta, yeah,exactly.
(26:30):
But once you get that word inyou, it's going to be so much
easier to win those spiritualbattles because, guess what?
It's going to be so much easierto win those spiritual battles
because, guess what, it's noteven a battle, because God has
already won it for us.
Shay Cook (26:41):
Amen, he already won it for us.
And how do we set goals withGod in mind around our budget,
our career and business outside?
You know, you said theboundaries, the word.
What else Any other resourcesor tips and tricks you have?
Dewan Clayborn (26:53):
This is something that you know me and
my wife do you know we do like aspiritual goal, like personally
, and then like a couplespiritual goals, oh nice.
So like, one thing for mepersonally spiritually is to
more speak in tongues more, atleast three to five times a week
.
Currently I kind of just do it,you know, maybe I'm at church
(27:14):
and the word is speaking to meand I get to do it.
But speaking in the spirit isreally so important that a lot
of people don't do and that'sdirect communication with God
that the enemy can't evenunderstand.
So that's one of my likespiritual personal goals.
And then this year our goal asa family was to pray together
(27:35):
once a day, every morning.
So like my wife and I were kindof doing our own little prayers
but like, as you know, Istarted seeing, you know, god
blesses a union.
So what the devil going to do?
He's going to try to attackthat and break up whatever.
So, like I'm, like you know what, no, I need to put that shield
of faith around me and my wife.
So our goal was to, like youknow, start praying together in
(27:58):
the morning, and so those werelike a couple of our spiritual
goals.
So we picked one individuallyand then one as a couple, and
honestly it's helped uspersonally and as a couple, just
continue to grow more inalignment with God and truly
figure out like who he wants usto be as a couple, you know, and
I love that and that's great.
Shay Cook (28:19):
And I would add that you know, you talk to God about
your goals.
Guys like out there, you know,just say all right, lord, this
is what I want.
But guess what, if he, if youwant that, that's probably
because he, you know, probablyhe put it in it.
Okay, we need to honor that,like this ain't new, this ain't
new to him.
And he's like, oh, I want this.
(28:39):
Okay, God gave that in yourspirit.
Okay, you need to talk to himthrough it so he can talk you
through it and obey him when hegives you an opportunity.
And I'm talking to myself,because God gave me this
opportunity with Goldman Sachs.
He's been telling me about itfor nine years and for nine
years I was saying no.
From 2016 until 2024,.
I was like, hmm, so eight years?
I was like, uh, no, I ain'tready.
I am in an amazing.
(29:01):
I'm going to have to do anepisode on just Goldman Sachs
and what God has done with methrough that program.
Dewan Clayborn (29:06):
But because you know obedience.
Shay Cook (29:09):
I was like Lord.
I kept on saying, no, I'm notready, I'm not ready.
And God was like man.
And God was like man.
You already, I give you, I'mgoing to give you what you need
to be ready.
So to me it's go to God witheverything you need your budget,
your career, your business,your family, your health.
He will provide.
And don't let that hustle orthe ambition get in the way of
you being next to God.
And it's good to have healthyambition Ain't nothing wrong
(29:31):
with that.
But you got to consider otherpeople too as well, Because we
know we out here and people areall thinking about themselves
too much and as they say 59% of.
Americans feel burnt out fromhustle culture, so we don't want
everybody to be burnt out here,not being able to be in their
great mind and their great selfto give to it.
So, duann, that was amazing.
(29:51):
Thank you so much, man.
Dewan Clayborn (29:53):
My pleasure.
Shay Cook (29:54):
How can people follow you?
Let's talk about your book alittle bit too, and all the
great things you're doingoutside of Central Maryland.
Dewan Clayborn (29:58):
So, yeah, so I believe in being an expert in
whatever craft you are in, andso my space that God has called
me in is the association world,nonprofit world.
And so because of that, yes, Ihave a book called the Next
Generation of NonprofitLeadership where I talk about
ways how I turn organizationsaround.
(30:19):
I talk about ways where, if youhave a culture, you're trying
to fix it, how to create awinning culture.
I talk about ways where two ofmy previous staff members are
now present CEOs of their ownchamber commerce.
So how to recruit and retaintop talent.
You know I talk about boardengagement.
Recruit and retain top talent.
(30:40):
You know I talk about boardengagement, so anything that as
a leader of a nonprofitorganization or a up and rising
executive, if you have goals ofrising through the ranks.
I talk about all those stepsaround, kind of my biography,
because I started as a directorof special events to now being a
president, ceo and talked aboutoffice politics.
You know all the things Ididn't even know about by coming
(31:04):
into this industry.
So, yeah, you can get that bookand you can order from
wwwJewanClaybournecom.
Of course it's on Amazon andstuff, but Jeff Bezos has enough
money.
Go to my website and get it.
Go to my website and get it.
Amen, go to my website and getit.
Otherwise, I'm super easy tofind on LinkedIn, you know
DeJuanClaybournecom.
(31:24):
Same on Facebook.
And if you just need aninspiring word every morning,
follow me.
I'm putting it in people's face.
I am bold about God, I'm boldabout these blessings and I'm
bold about being called toconquer.
Shay Cook (31:39):
I know that is right and you know what guys follow
him for real Cause I see it onLinkedIn and I know what we
talked about this before.
Some people like why are youputting that on there?
Why shouldn't he?
He should be, and guess what?
That gets a lot of engagementbecause people need that word.
They need that encouragement,that motivation, because we got
a lot of darkness out here rightnow, and so seeing DeJuan
(31:59):
seeing that and be like, yes,yes, like, and just seeing the
engagement, even reading thecomments you give, you get
inspired, thank you, and that'sthe thing we got to stop trying
to do stuff alone.
Dewan Clayborn (32:10):
You know, like we have to like realize there
are community of good people, ofgood godly people.
You know I'll say moving awayfrom Houston was so good to me
because, like the culture thereis, like you know people,
there's so many divorces Likeyou will kind of go there and
think people can't havesuccessful marriages so I had to
(32:30):
.
That's another part of thewhole thing of getting married
and relocating up here, seeing alot of successful marriages,
black couples, happy couples,like thank God, my wife and I,
our parents, are still marriedand we have that as an origin.
But like today's society, basedon where you are, you won't
think that that's normal, youknow, and so like that's a whole
(32:51):
nother thing.
Find that community ofbelievers, of Christian couples,
be around that community ofbelievers of Christian couples,
be around that.
There's a whole positive upliftin that type of fellowship that
God wants us to have with oneanother, fellowshiping with one
another and other believers.
Shay Cook (33:08):
Yeah, I agree with that.
I come from a family of manylong marriages.
My grandparents are 63.
Parents, I think they're goingon 48.
And my husband and I 26recently.
Dewan Clayborn (33:18):
See, there we go .
Shay Cook (33:19):
It's so important because you cannot do life alone
and having a partner to go withyou it's not like anything else
.
It really is Best decision Imade.
Best decision I made.
Dewan Clayborn (33:30):
It's funny because you know my wife
Brittany, of course oppositesattract, right, yeah, of course.
And it's funny when she meetspeople out here.
They're like, so are you likehim?
And so I'm like, what does likehim mean?
You know what I mean, but she'slike, no, I'm not.
But anyway, I want to like goand like do these podcasts and
(33:51):
tell these men, like at my age,like it's so much better, like
being faithful, get married,best decision I made, you know.
But she's just like she don'twant to out of this shit.
Shay Cook (34:01):
So eventually, maybe, hopefully, that will be a
ministry we can create, if not,you know you're small your
circles, and they're not smallat all, but do it in your
circles, through the chamber andjust going taking people out to
, like you know, you meet ayoung brother, young person like
let's go to dinner, let's talkabout this, and they'll see it
in you, though, and they see howyou and your wife love each
other, you know and have funwith each other, enjoy each
(34:22):
other and be like.
They want that, and it's a goodinfluence, and that's what I've
seen and shout out to my husbandtoday's his birthday, july 31st
okay, happy birthday happybirthday, nate and so you know I
told him, even though he'll be50 in two years, but I was like
I can't believe I'm about to bemarried to a 50-year-old.
Stop it.
Dewan Clayborn (34:36):
50 to new 30.
50 to new 30.
Shay Cook (34:41):
I'm married to an old man, I ain't never thought
about that 26 years ago.
I'm like what.
But either way, God has beengood that we've enjoyed this.
Dewan Clayborn (34:49):
It's been struggles.
Shay Cook (34:50):
It's not easy and that's the problem.
Another thing people we need toand that's another episode the
misconception of marriage, ofbeing this beautiful all the
time.
It's going to be some uglythings going on, but guess what?
Even through the ugly there'sbeautiful stuff that you're
going to learn about yourselfand you grow.
Me and my husband came intothis marriage.
We were children we were 20some years old or young, and now
we're adults and we've growntogether.
(35:12):
We got a 24 year old daughter.
We got a beautiful lifetogether and it's still getting
struggles.
I ain't going to act like it'snot, but God has been good, you
know.
And that ambition came throughthe marriage and all of that.
We empowered, we upgraded eachother, we uplifted each other,
and so I would add that.
You know, god isn't againstambition, he just wants to guide
it right and the whole hustle.
(35:33):
Marriage, it means working withexcellence and purpose, not
exhaustion.
That could be anything in yourlife, your business, your
marriage, your health, yourfamily, whatever.
He wants you to be ambitious,to take you to the next level,
yeah, and if you're?
Dewan Clayborn (35:46):
at a, even at a company that you're, let's say,
you got a bad boss or you don'tnecessarily like what you do.
It's not about them, it's notabout your boss, it's about you
as a child of God that wants toproduce excellence, because God
created excellence.
And so, even if you're not evenat the spot where you want to
(36:07):
be yet, still you'rerepresenting God and people are
watching.
So, always, always, produceexcellence, because God is
excellence.
Shay Cook (36:17):
Amen.
Any final thoughts?
Holy hustle.
Dewan Clayborn (36:20):
I like it.
You know you might get bumped,you might get bruised, but at
the end of the day, God will doexceedingly, abundantly.
Above all, you can ask, thinkor imagine, and so just have the
faith and he will truly callyou to conquer.
Shay Cook (36:37):
All right, Ain't that a word?
Thank you, Mr DeJuan Claiborne.
That was amazing.
Thank you, man.
I just want to give you all acall to action before we wrap
this episode this week.
Take 10 minutes to pray overyour goals and ask, aren't these
led by God or by pressure?
And then adjust your one goalto reflect on more faith-driven
ambition.
So thank you for joining ustoday.
(36:58):
Hope you have a wonderful day.
We'll see you soon.
Dewan Clayborn (37:01):
See you soon.
Thanks again, Shay.
Shay Cook (37:05):
A big thank you for listening to this episode.
We hope you found today's chatabout the intersection of
religion and money insightful.
We would love to hear yourfeedback.
Hit that subscribe button orfollow the podcast and please
feel free to leave us a reviewFor the latest Yahweh's Money
content, visit us atcrusaders4changeorg or find us
(37:27):
anywhere you listen to podcasts.
Until next time, stayfinancially fit and spiritually
inspired and remember it'salways better Yahweh's way.
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