June 12, 2025 • 35 mins
In the season 4 opening episode of Yahweh’s Money, I had an open and heartfelt conversation with my husband, Nathaniel Cook Jr., about the intersection of love, legacy, faith, and finances in Black marriages.
Drawing on our 26-year journey together, we reflected on how biblical principles, patient partnership, and intentional money management have shaped our relationship and approach to generational wealth.
Here are a few key takeaways from our discussion:
Compromise is Crucial
Marriage and money both thrive on honest conversations and joint decision-making. Neither partner will always be right, and building wealth requires alignment—even if visions aren’t identical, they must point in the same direction.
Faith Fuels Financial Resilience
Leaning on faith helps navigate disagreements and encourages patience, trust, and hope—both in God and each other. Strong faith doesn’t erase worry, but it anchors couples through uncertain times.
Generational Understanding Builds Wealth
Wealth isn’t just about assets; it’s also about the mindset passed on. Demonstrating responsible financial behaviors and discussing money openly with our daughter has helped her set a new “floor” for her own future, raising the bar for the next generation.
If you’re looking to strengthen your relationship or build a financial legacy, consider scheduling a "money date" with your partner—pray together and align on your vision for the future.
Let’s keep breaking cycles and building together!
Episode Resources:
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Our podcast is proudly sponsored by Crusaders for Change, LLC (C4C) and hosted by our CEO and Founder, Mrs. Shay Cook. At C4C, we provide customized corporate financial wellness programs for businesses, government agencies, and nonprofit organizations. Our services are tailored to create happier, healthier, and more productive work environments. We also empower individuals and couples to overcome debt, improve their credit, boost savings, and more. Ready to learn more about how C4C can impact your life? Contact us today at https://www.crusaders4change.org/!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nate Cook (00:02):
I don't know from where I grew up.
It wasn't that we had the worstof things right.
We were kept okay.
It wasn't the greatest, but itwas okay, because I always
figured that with patience, youknow, and perseverance, we would
be able to live with thosethings without all the debt and
all the crap that comes withgetting them.
And I think we've achieved alot of that.
There's always room to do more,but I think we've achieved a
(00:24):
lot of that.
Shay Cook (00:31):
Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and
money come up?
You're not alone.
Welcome to Yahweh's Money, thepodcast where we tackle the
crossroads of faith and finance.
I'm Shay Cook, an AccreditedFinancial Counselor and the CEO
and Founder of Crusaders forChange LLC.
Join us on our journey as wediscuss topics like tithing,
saving and conquering debtthrough religious perspectives.
Let's get started.
(00:51):
Hey everyone, welcome back toanother episode of Yahweh's
Money.
Actually, this is our seasonfour.
I'm excited to be back.
Episode 79, God is Good.
So thank you for joining ustoday.
Today we're talking about loveand legacy, strengthening Black
marriages through faith andfinance.
I'm all about in the season ofBlack excellence, so I'm really
(01:13):
excited about this.
Before I introduce our amazingguest today, marriage is really
a divine covenant, but whathappens when faith, finances and
culture intersect?
Let's explore how biblicalprinciples guide love, money and
legacy in Black marriages.
So our main scripture for todayis Ecclesiastics 4.12, which
(01:34):
states Though one may beoverpowered, two can defend
themselves.
A cord of these three strandsis not quickly broken.
So you know, coming together ina marriage, having married
almost 26 years, which is crazyUs two together can, I mean,
just really take over the world.
I guess, if you really want tosay that.
But anyways, back to our guest,Nathaniel Cook Jr, my husband of
(01:58):
almost 26 years.
He's amazing, wise.
He's a retired Air Forceservice member.
He works for companies manydifferent companies over the
years since he got out of themilitary.
I'm not even going to mentionthe company.
If he wants to, he can.
But we've done great thingstogether in terms of marriage
and money and family, especially.
(02:18):
I would say, our best gift andthing that we did together was
create our daughter, Alana Cook,who is 24.
But we traveled all around theworld thanks to his military
career.
I think we've done really wellwhen it comes to money, but
we're going to talk about thattoday.
Welcome, Nathaniel, Nate.
Nate Cook (02:32):
Thank you for having me.
Shay Cook (02:33):
Yeah, finally right, season four and we finally have
you.
Well, I mean, you weren'talways interested, but you were,
but I appreciate you being here.
We're talking about some deepstuff here and the Bible and
money.
So how are you feeling today?
Nate Cook (02:45):
I'm good, as you know .
Shay Cook (02:46):
I'm very interested in your topics, but I'm always
kind of worried about where tolead us when we have I mean,
yeah, we have some I wouldn'tsay heated maybe heated, but
sometimes it's deeper than whatsome people can handle.
But because he is so wise,y'all, I mean you're going to
(03:09):
see that today my husband iswise above his age.
I mean, even when we were inour twenties, even when we were
our team.
Well, I was in our teens, hewas in his twenties, I was 19.
He was 20.
Yeah, it wasn't that kind ofsituation y'all.
That's hilarious, nate.
But he taught me a lot aboutsavings.
I mean, I was really just aspender, he was the saver and
where he comes from, it was veryjust shocking that he wasn't
the opposite of what I was, orhe is opposite of what I was,
(03:29):
but he really just taught me alot.
I always tell people myhusband's taught me a lot around
money, because I'm not going toput my parents' business out
there, but I just did theopposite of everything they did
and I actually did well.
But I mean, I consider myself apersonal financial expert now,
but it all started with myhusband just teaching me like,
you know what, when we gotthings going on, we need to save
(03:49):
, and I'm not mad at that.
So anything you want to add toyour introduction.
Nate Cook (03:54):
No, I think that that's a that does a good job.
All what's on your spirit.
Take your seat.
Let the wisdom inherit.
Shay Cook (04:14):
Hit the rapid fire questions Say what's on your
spirit?
Now we're going to get into oursection of rapid fire questions
.
We introduced this late lastseason where we just asked three
quick questions to see whereour guest's head is around.
Marriage or just money?
(04:35):
And the Bible and the word?
So what's one financial lessonyou wish you knew before
marriage?
Nate Cook (04:42):
I wish that I understood and that I knew that
it takes a compromise.
So when we first got together,I wasn't aware that we should
both come to a decision when itcame to finances, considering
where we both came from.
So I wish I knew more aboutactually just coming together
with somebody and say, hey, whatdo you think about this or what
(05:04):
do you think about that,especially when it comes to
finances.
But that's about marriage.
Compromise is what marriage isabout too.
Shay Cook (05:11):
Exactly, exactly, instead of one of us saying no,
we're going to do this or theother, and one taking the lead.
It's a compromise, it's a jointdecision.
Nate Cook (05:19):
Yes, absolutely.
Shay Cook (05:20):
Yeah, okay, well, you know we were raised by parents
that were in a differentgeneration, that usually the men
.
If there was a man in ahousehold, they took the lead,
they were the breadwinner, andthat's the kind of household I
was.
My mom didn't have much saywhat happened to the money, even
though she did, but my fatherwas like you know, he brought in
the money home and he made alot of decisions and you were
(05:40):
early on, was like this and needto be joint.
But in the very beginning itwasn't always like that.
Nate Cook (05:44):
But yeah, no, I think we came.
I think we started tounderstand that neither one of
us is always right Right, and soyou have to be smart enough to
understand that you know we helpeach other in different regards
and to be able to step backsometimes and be like, okay,
yeah, well, it's fine that I'mnot getting my way, because it's
(06:05):
good for us as a family and notjust me as a person.
Shay Cook (06:08):
Yeah, oh yeah.
We're going to tell some ofthose stories about that later,
y'all, cause I have those fordays where Nate was like no, we
don't need to do this, and Iacted like a little kid having
tantrums, and then I realizedlater, yeah, he was right, so
hey, it happens, right.
So next question how does faithhelp navigate financial
disagreements and marriage?
Nate Cook (06:26):
That's a good question.
I'm still wrestling with that.
Faith is is a central portionof, I think, of how we handle
disagreements in general, to notgo extremely deep in it.
But I think you know, with yourfaith in God, you kind of it
kind of leads you to be morepatient and perceptive of the
other person, because that's abig, a big tenet and having
(06:49):
faith is just the patience partof it.
Shay Cook (06:52):
So, yeah, the patience and the peace of it all
and just trusting when youcan't even, you don't even know
what to trust, or just to haveto have faith, is not seen Right
.
So having faith not only in God, but in each other and
individually and yourself,because I see a lot of people, a
lot of couples, strugglebecause of the way they were
raised.
They don't have even the trustin themselves, and then they
have this partner that they'rerelying wholly on and then they
(07:12):
don't have any trust in God.
So it just gets crazy.
So all right.
Last question what's one waycouples can build wealth
together?
I don't know if we still learnthat.
Nate Cook (07:25):
If you know, please let me know.
I don't know how.
There's different ways to buildwealth.
Doing it as a couple is kind ofhard, especially when people
are not aligned, so maybe that'sthe best way to build wealth
together is just to becomealigned, to develop a vision,
and it doesn't have to be thesame vision, it just has to be
pointed in the same direction.
Shay Cook (07:41):
And they have to complement each other, which is
pointing in the same direction,I agree, has to be pointed in
the same direction, and theyhave to compliment each other.
Yeah, which is pointing in thesame direction, I agree.
I'm reading this devotionaly'all that really talks about
that, and it talks.
It's a leadership devotionalaround God and being a great
leader.
But it always says that, like,you got to have a clear vision
for your people to follow, and Ithink that's the same in a
marriage, right, having that,like Nate's, that complements
each other.
It goes in the same direction.
(08:02):
We used to say, you know,sometimes men are on Mars, venus
, wherever planet they are.
We want to come back here onEarth and try to be one and
aligned.
So, all right, thank you,nathaniel.
That was great.
Rapid fire question section.
Now we're going to get into ourmain discussion around
strengthening Black marriagesthrough faith and finance.
As most of you hopefully know,god should be the center of the
(08:22):
marriage.
That's not always the case, butwhy faith strengthens
relationships and finances.
I mean it really comes down to,like Nate's saying, having that
vision.
But where have we struggledwith that?
Let's get into the real stuff.
Nate Cook (08:34):
With faith and finance?
Yeah, I think we.
Well, I think that you arestronger in faith than I am.
I struggle with faith, not inthe large term of it, but just
dealing with the way the worldis.
I have a hard time sometimesabsorbing all of it and not
being bogged down into it, andthat impacts the way I look at
(08:58):
everything.
So I'm a stickler for gettinginsurance for this and getting
insurance for that.
I'm always worried about therainy day fund type of situation
.
So that's where it always leadsme.
And that's not saying I don'thave faith in things that work
out the right way.
I'm just always concerned thatwe won't be prepared for when
things don't work out the rightway.
Shay Cook (09:17):
Yeah, and that's what we're trying to teach our
clients, yep.
Nate Cook (09:19):
So that's where I'm always concerned, and I don't
know if that's because and I'mwell, I'm absolutely sure it's
because of the way I grew up.
Right, I didn't grow up with alot, and so I was always
concerned that there was all.
You know, the rug is going tobe pulled out from under us,
which is a big concern of whatgoes on now, and so I'm always
concerned that I'm not going tobe able to provide or that we're
(09:40):
not going to be able to sustainwhere we are today.
So and that weighs on me veryheavily and faith would be a way
I could sit back and say well,no, it'll be okay.
I've never been comfortable inthat position, but you know,
that's what I have you for.
So you're supposed to be thatbridge, that support, to be like
, yeah, you're okay.
Shay Cook (10:00):
Yeah.
Nate Cook (10:01):
I use you to kind of counterbalance my ineptitude
when it comes to pay.
So I'm leaning on you for that.
Shay Cook (10:09):
Yeah, you do, but I also lean on you for that.
Obviously, you're thebreadwinner and we provide
together.
But the way I was raised, eventhough my dad was the
breadwinner, my mom is a freespirit, so she was out there
just doing a lot and we hadeverything we needed and more.
When I started dating Nate, andeven once we got married, I
just was always thinking like Ineed all this and I really
didn't, and I didn't take thetime to think.
(10:31):
It takes time to build up.
I just remember we were inGermany and I wanted to.
I think let me go back to evenOmaha when I wanted to buy that
table, the dining room table$8,000, $10,000 table.
Yeah, that table was.
And I remember calling my momand she's like, shay, I didn't
get all this stuff.
It took me 20 some years to getall this stuff.
I'm like, yeah, but we needed adining room table.
(10:53):
We end up going out in NebraskaFurniture Mark buying like a
$400 table that we still have.
We don't use it, we save it forour dollar to take to her house
whenever she move out.
But I remember that and I was sosad like I wanted that big old
table and then we ended upbuying a nicer table later on.
But I mean, I have so manystories about me wanting
something then and now andNate's like, no, we cannot do
(11:14):
this right now.
And just being so sad about itand feeling like and I think a
lot of it came from the shame ofpeople coming to our house.
I remember even let's go backto Germany and having the FMO,
the Furniture Management Office,family furniture, the rental
furniture is military.
People that listen, understand,but those even civilians, when
you go certain places, themilitary will provide you this
furniture and it's all hard andit's not comfortable.
(11:36):
And I wanted all the nicefurniture and Nate's like, no,
we don't need to buy that.
So we finally bought ourItalian leather set like right
before we left and we still gotthat.
Now it was just crazy because Ialways felt shame about the way
my house looked, because my mamahad all this nice stuff.
I always thought from thebeginning but no, she had to
build up to it as well.
So I thought I was going tocome in and 20 something, get
(11:58):
married and have a house full ofbeautiful furniture, shrunks
and all this stuff my mama had.
It's funny how my mom's a freespirit and she was like no, shay
, it took me a while to get tothat, so I just had a different
mentality.
But now it's like but I metpeople like that young service
members, young people evenoutside of the military.
They 20 some years old and theyhave everything quote unquote
they needed, but they were goinginto debt doing all of that.
Nate Cook (12:22):
Well, let's not forget, you know, that we could
have bought those things, wecould have, we could have had a
lot of those things, but we Idon't know from where I grew up,
but like it wasn't that we hadthe worst of things.
Right we were.
We were kept okay.
It wasn't the greatest, but itwas okay, cause I always figured
that with patience, you know,and perseverance we would have,
we would be able to live withthose things without all the
(12:43):
debt and all the crap that comeswith getting them.
And I think we've achieved alot of that.
There's always room to do more,but I think we've achieved a
lot of that.
And it was never a place, itwas never a portion of me that
said we needed it now Because Iknew that.
I guess that's part of thefaith that I had that we would
get it later and it was neverabout now.
(13:04):
And that's the way I live mylife today.
Right, it's always abouttomorrow.
Yeah, life is.
I heard as a comedian said thisone time.
He's like life is not short,life is long.
And if you start looking at itlike that, with that lens,
you'll understand that.
You know today it can be hard,but you know tomorrow will come,
yeah, and so we could have nicefurniture today.
It's going to get old, it'sgoing to get battered, and then
(13:26):
you know, we'll spend all thisgreat amount of money on things
that we can't even take with us.
And I never looked at it likewe should spend all our money on
that because, again, my my wayof looking at it, like
something's going to happen.
Yeah, might need that money andthank God we didn't, because
there were things that happenedAlways.
We needed that Again.
But that's not about beingright or wrong, that's just
(13:49):
about being cautious andbelieving that tomorrow will
come.
Shay Cook (13:52):
And we'll be there.
Nate Cook (13:53):
Especially when we are not getting like the things
that we got weren't bad things.
Shay Cook (13:59):
No, they weren't they last yeah.
Nate Cook (14:00):
Let's not get things in and get confused Like we
didn't go out and buy a bunch ofjunk.
Shay Cook (14:03):
No, we didn't Right.
Nate Cook (14:05):
We just didn't get the greatest of things.
Shay Cook (14:07):
Yeah.
Yeah, it was like tier oneversus tier three, like they're
really expensive, but we alsotake care of our stuff too, and
I think that matters.
Nate Cook (14:17):
You take good care of me.
You take good care of thethings that we have of our
daughter, so a lot of that isyou.
Shay Cook (14:22):
Well, I appreciate that.
I mean the preserved stuff,whether it's cheap or old or new
and fancy, you got to take careof your stuff or it'll just
fall apart.
Nate Cook (14:31):
No, our stuff is not cheap?
Shay Cook (14:33):
I mean, I guess not.
It's inexpensive.
Nate Cook (14:36):
Yeah, obviously.
Shay Cook (14:36):
Because even some of that stuff we bought from Ikea
it's still there.
We still got it.
Some of that stuff we got isstill around.
Some of that stuff fell apart,but you take care of it, you
know.
But I was going to go back toyou even saying like life is
long, you're right, and justit's long and we've had a long
marriage and I hope it continuesto grow and all that.
But I just think when I wasyounger, I know, when I was
(15:02):
younger, I didn't have faithlike that.
I don't even consider myself ababy in Christ.
At that time I just was livingmy life.
My ego was driven me, I wasjust doing whatever as a young
person.
But as I started to get closerto God, things really started to
change.
I started to be having morefaith.
Obviously, as you start to knowGod more and then just grow and
just being patient that he'sgoing to provide, I mean, my ego
is still there and just manydifferent ways it shows up.
(15:24):
And but when it came to themoney, I really trusted my
husband when he came to thatbecause he's a provider.
He's always provided from thevery beginning until now and I'm
sure, in the future.
But having that I won't call ita crutch, but having that, just
what's the word?
He's just a provider.
He's just always therefinancially and more.
So I didn't have to worry aboutthat, and so it gave me the
(15:51):
freedom to be more.
I don't consider myself a freespirited, but give myself more
time to fail or to make mistakes, and knowing that my husband's
going to be there to pick me upis a great thing.
It's nice to have that.
So I appreciate you and thankyou for always being a provider.
But I also saw that in myfather.
I see that in my brother andmany others.
A lot of people have certaincircles of men that don't do
that.
But I have to say my uncles, mygrandfather I've been around
(16:15):
men that always provided.
So I wouldn't expect myself tobe with nobody, but somebody
provided in many different waysoutside of even financially.
Nate Cook (16:23):
You were raised by good people, and good people
raise good people.
Shay Cook (16:26):
Yeah, shout out to Reverend Mitchell Toll, so he
was an amazing father.
So so common financialstruggles in black marriages we
talk about this a lot and justall the craze from our
generation.
We're generation X, y'all, andwe got a millennial Not my
daughter.
What's our daughter GenerationZ-er?
She ain't no millennial.
Nate Cook (16:43):
I don't know, I can never get married.
Shay Cook (16:45):
She's a Generation Z-er, I think so.
No, she's not alpha.
That's our young niece andnephew, breaking those
generation cycles of debt.
You know, managing expectations, building generational wealth,
which earlier.
There's a lot of struggles inBlack marriages.
(17:05):
If there even is a marriageLike that's a whole nother
conversation, right.
A lot of people.
There's still a lot of Blackwomen out there that aren't
married and it's justunfortunately, with all the
systematic issues in thiscountry.
But we're talking about debt.
And what did you see growing up?
Did your family have a lot ofdebt?
Nate Cook (17:15):
No, my family didn't have a lot of debt, but my
family didn't have a lot ofwealth either.
I grew up in a single parenthousehold, so it was just my.
I was raised by women blackwomen so that was a good thing
for me.
So I got kind of to see thatother side of it.
But there was never a place ora time when they borrowed money
and that may be a systemic thingbecause you know, loans and
(17:37):
those things weren't reallyavailable but they never really
asked for things.
We were never on the I wouldsay, extreme poor side of life
growing up in Baltimore, butthere was by no means wealth in
our house.
We didn't survive paycheck topaycheck, but it was like every
other paycheck to paycheck typeof thing.
So we had struggle and Ilearned to be happy with what I
(17:59):
had.
I didn't want what my mom had.
She didn't have anybody to bethere for her If something
happened, something broke,something needed fixed.
It was all her kind of placewhere you become a man earlier
(18:22):
than you need to be a man andyou start picking up traits that
are not necessarily masculinebecause you grew up in a house
of women and so they saw womensolve problems differently than
men do, and so I began to solvemy problems in that way.
They weren't conducive to theway the world was asking me to
solve problems, and so I fellbehind Right, and so I had to
learn how to be was asking me tosolve problems, and so I fell
behind right, and so I had tolearn how to be masculine and
(18:44):
how to solve problems that aremore conducive to the way the
world expects me to solveproblems.
As a black man, it's a littleharder because you got to deal
with that and the racism andeverything else that comes into
it.
So when I learned that and Iunderstood that, you know, I got
to be a little stronger incertain areas and be able to be
vulnerable in another area, andmy wife was there to help me be
(19:07):
vulnerable in areas that I feltI couldn't be vulnerable in.
I still struggle with that, butnot as badly as I used to.
It's very hard to struggle withthat, but when it comes to like
breaking cycles of debt, wejust I was never a person.
I learned to manipulate debtfrom those women Like, again,
they weren't getting loans andthings like that, but they never
(19:30):
had a lot of money to go aroundwith and to do anything they
wanted to be with.
So they learned how to managedebt, which I think is a key
component of the way I do things.
Now.
We don't always agree on thisyeah, we don't but I learned to
navigate the debt that I keepbecause I know that I have to
live not just for today but fortomorrow.
Like paying for me.
(19:51):
Paying off a dollar is good topay it off, but if you charge me
10 cents for that dollartomorrow, I'll pay the 10 cent
because I might need that dollarfor tomorrow.
That's the way I look at it,and I'm not saying it's the best
way, but I have enough.
I've always had enough to payoff any outstanding debt that I
(20:11):
have.
If push came to shove, it waslike okay, you can be debt free
If that's what it called for,but if it's not calling for it,
that's what it called for, butif it's not calling for it, I'll
pay it off in time and that way, just in case God forbid car
breaks down, something happensto our house, I can pull from
that fund and then we don't haveto accrue a larger debt.
Shay Cook (20:32):
Yeah, I understand that we do have arguments with
that y'all and that's from thetrauma of childhood.
I'm seeing parents that had alot of debt, a lot of credit
card debt, that argued so muchover balance checks, credit
cards, so many other issues, andI know when I and then going to
college and just really takingtime to I was self-taught when
it came to learning how tomanage finances and then
(20:54):
eventually I got myaccreditation and financial
counseling, but I just don'tbelieve in paying debt.
I don't.
I mean, I just believe inpaying debt.
I use credit cards because Ilove the points and the rewards
and stuff, but I just was like Idon't want to have to pay the
man.
I'm sure that came fromchildhood or something, hearing
my daddy talk about people in acertain way, not to say I ain't
(21:17):
never had a credit card thataccumulated debt.
That's not true, because I didearlier on but once I paid them
off, I strive monthly, not tosay I ain't never had a credit
card that accumulated debtthat's not true, because I did
earlier on but once I paid themoff, like I strive like monthly
to pay all my credit card debtoff before the interest hit.
Now, with the business, that'sdifferent, because I can, you
can write off that debt, you canwrite off that interest, but
not with a personal.
So I literally and I havegotten on Nate like why you
(21:37):
don't pay off that credit card,and he explains what he just
explained to y'all right now andI'm like I'm still like it
don't make sense to me.
But hey, but now it kind ofmakes more sense because he's
like you know, I got the savingswe might be able to use that.
And I'm like, well, I got thiscredit card and I can use it and
I'll just pay it off with mysavings later.
So it both works for us.
And I just want to say in thismoment that even though we
(21:57):
different.
We could be different in arelationship and still, you know
, like you said, be able to havea good relationship.
I mean, we're different people,we have different ideologies
and stuff around certain things,but I just don't believe in
carrying credit card debt andI'm sure, again, that's from
trauma.
Nate Cook (22:13):
Our belief is that we manage it differently.
Yeah, we manage it differently,and so I think the problem
comes in if we didn't believe inmanaging it at all.
Right, like we just forgetabout it, like it's not there
but that's so, that's not whathappens.
So I think we just manage itdifferently.
Shay Cook (22:28):
Yeah, I agree, yeah, and you know.
And just how do we deal withhelping the black community
build generational wealth?
I know, being part of NAACP andeconomic empowerment chair, a
lot of people are struggling,but I realize I mean I realized
this for years a lot ofsystematic and systemic, but so
I don't even want to go there.
You know, it's just like what.
How do we teach our daughterLike she, I think, first we're
(22:55):
we're a good role models when itcomes to money.
She's seen that we've acquiredwealth or just accumulated house
and which is part of wealth andstuff like that, just by being
responsible.
I think she realizes that.
But how else do you think we'reteaching her Seeing it?
Nate Cook (23:05):
helps, right, seeing that the possibility exists
helps.
From where I grew up, I didn'tknow that where we live today
was possible, crazy enough,until I saw where you live and
how we got to live, and so thenI was like, ok, the possibility
exists, right, so it can happen.
All the black people I knewgrowing up, we were living again
not, we weren't at poverty'sdoorstep, but we weren't far
from it and so I thought it wasnatural to have animals in your
(23:30):
house that were not dogs or cats, right, having mice in your
home was like something that yougrew up with, and it was like
it wasn't like a I mean, itwasn't a good thing, but it was
something that was.
And when I met you and saw yourway your family lived, I was
like, oh, this is new, this isthis we don't have.
(23:51):
They don't have mice.
It's fine, it's cool, thatthat's a good thing.
So it changed my perspective andI think that we've taught our
daughter that like this is apossibility for black people to
live in a way that we live Notalways extravagant, but we do
take, we do indulge in some ofthe finer things in life that
you know that we can afford.
(24:11):
I think we've also taught thatwe don't live beyond our means,
but we can do some of the thingsthat would be considered luxury
to others.
But it's become, which is agood and bad thing.
It's become normalized for us.
Shay Cook (24:25):
Yeah, but we prepare for it, even though it's
normalized.
Nate Cook (24:27):
We don't just go crazy In her eyes.
Shay Cook (24:30):
That becomes normal.
Becomes normal.
Yeah, so it becomes anentitlement, a privilege for her
.
Yeah, so that's a bad thing.
Nate Cook (24:35):
Right there's two, yeah, yeah so, but but she sees
again the possibilities that ithappens.
So that creates a, that createsa different floor for her like
so my floor is to never go backto where I was.
Her floor is where we areExactly yeah.
Shay Cook (24:49):
She never experienced that underneath an underbelly
of it all.
Nate Cook (24:54):
I mean, I lived in my mom's basement, right, and it
wasn't the basement that wewould consider now, right, we
have carpets and no, that's notwhat it was.
It was it was.
It was pretty bad, consideringwhere we are today and what we
would do in a basement today.
Shay Cook (25:09):
Yeah.
Nate Cook (25:10):
Yeah, so my daughter doesn't know that lifestyle, and
that's again, that's not a badthing, but it does set a
different standard for her.
So anything that she achieves,or that she tries to accomplish,
will start from where we are.
Yeah, that's true, andunderstanding that we do it
responsibly and it's not withoutits challenges or struggle, but
(25:31):
she sees all of those and shesees the triumph and the
failures.
That gives her a better placeto start.
I don't know if it's aboutgenerational wealth, but I think
it's about generationalunderstanding right which we
have worked hard to acquire, andfor her it's an entitlement.
Yeah it is.
Shay Cook (25:49):
And just the knowledge of it all and her
mother being able to.
I mean, before Alana went tocollege, I put I, we did
financial counseling that wholesummer because I wanted to make
sure she was on a budget spendplan and, like, make sure she
was responsible for certainthings.
Even though Nate and I paid forher tuition and her room and
board, she had to pay for allthe other little things.
And so her understanding thatand even now she graduated from
(26:11):
college, she's back at home, sheknows, when she moves out
because she's going to move outthat she needs to figure out
what that looks like.
And she's already thinking like, all right, rent, I'm going to
have to have a roommate wherecan I live that's safe, but also
that I can afford.
But she's really thinking aboutthat.
She knows she can't be.
She still has the privilege ofher parents.
But you know, eventually she'sgoing to have to be independent,
and we talked about ityesterday.
She's like I am dependent,independent.
(26:32):
I'm like, yeah, you can takecare of yourself, but you're not
financially independent yet.
So you know, and she needs tounderstand that.
Nate Cook (26:39):
Yeah, the difference.
I think that also that we needto.
I mean, the issue that we hadwith her was we had to set
expectations and that movinghome after college in my
generation was something thatyou didn't want to do and her
generation, I think, is probablynecessary.
Considering the landscape ofthe world, Getting a home and
buying a home for $100,000,$90,000, $80,000, whatever it
(27:00):
was back then was normal, right.
You can't do that now.
Shay Cook (27:04):
Yeah.
Nate Cook (27:04):
So expecting somebody to again her floor is where we
are is our present.
She would not be able to affordthat home, but that's her
expectation.
So that's a part of that badside that we have to deal with
and she has to contend with.
But I think we've set afoundation where she understands
that you don't get thisimmediately.
There was a workup for it.
(27:28):
We didn't start in this house,we worked up to it and so, with
her understanding that, then Ithink she'll be able to accept
okay, this is what I can affordnow and that's the key word now.
Shay Cook (27:38):
This is what I can afford now or now with, yeah,
with your current salary budget,whatever, and having an
understanding of that, yeah, andnot going buying a bunch of new
furniture like her mama wastrying to do at her age.
A lot of people do now A lot ofpeople do now.
Yeah, so she's going todefinitely get that.
You know that knowledge of itall.
So, lastly, I want to talkabout studies show financial
(27:59):
stress is a top cause of divorce.
So how can faith shift thisnarrative?
Think I didn't happen to us.
Nate Cook (28:06):
How can faith shift it?
Yeah, I think we just have youknow you with our beliefs.
I think it kind of helps.
I think there was a God.
We know we've gone through ourtroubles.
It's never been about money.
Shay Cook (28:18):
No, it hasn't, Thank God.
Nate Cook (28:20):
And I think that's because we kind of, once we got
past the initial stuff withmoney that we had, we kind of
decided that that wasn't goingto be something that we died on
a hill for.
Yeah Right, and I think that'sstill important Again.
We have disagreements aboutthings, but it's never to a
point where it means that we'regoing to end what we have become
together.
Shay Cook (28:38):
I think that's faith.
It's faith, it's God.
It's just seeing what myparents going through, but also
just not sticking to tradition.
I think for me, I know, comingin, I was like sticking to
tradition, I think for me, Iknow, coming in, I was like in
Germany, I'm like we got to havea joint account.
We got to have a joint account.
My mom and dad have a jointaccount and he's like, nah, I
ain't doing that.
I was like, no, what?
(28:59):
I was really mad about that.
But we have a joint account nowfor joint things.
But we always kept our money.
We had separate accounts too.
And then we finally startedcoming together when it came to
investing and stuff.
We're still working on it.
But, yeah, and a lot of couplesand actually a lot of people in
the church used to get me andthat was a shame of it all.
A lot of people were like youain't got no joint account,
(29:19):
what's wrong with y'all?
Like what?
What are you talking?
First of all, I don't even know.
I was telling them my business,but I was young, right, trying
to learn everything, and peoplein that generation really made
me the baby boomers and earliergeneration Xers just really made
me feel guilty about not havinga joint account.
And now I'm meeting a lot ofclients that are young and it's
like, no, I'm keeping my ownaccount.
You know, it's just different.
(29:39):
So, not being in that traditionof it all and trying to follow
certain traditions or standardsor stereotypes or whatever, but
we made it work for what workedfor us standards or stereotypes
or whatever, but we made it workfor what worked for us.
Nate Cook (29:50):
We got to remember, though, that requires trust,
right?
So that's what that?
That that the underlying partof that is trust.
So if I can't trust you withwhat you're doing with your
account and you can't trust mewith what I'm doing with my
account, then that doesn't workat all, Right, and so that's a
big that's a huge key of that.
If we're both untrustworthy,and even though we're paying
(30:10):
let's say we have there's threeaccounts mine, yours, and a
joint one and the joint one isdoing fine, we're paying all the
bills we want, but if we don'ttrust each other with the money
that we have in our own accounts, then that doesn't work.
Shay Cook (30:23):
Yeah.
Nate Cook (30:24):
Right, because then I'm worried about you spending
frivolously, you're worriedabout me spending frivolously,
you're worried about me spendingfrivolously and things
happening.
But if we don't trust what wegot going on, then there's so
many underlying issues that comefrom that.
Shay Cook (30:38):
That is so true.
Nate Cook (30:45):
I trust that if something happens, even with
that joint account, whateverthat you'll be like, don't worry
about it.
I got the rest of it becauseit's here.
I'm not spending crazy.
We're not doing.
We can still do the otherthings that we want to do, and
the same goes for me, and so Ithink we do need to do better
with the investing portion andthe retirement part, and I think
that's just something that wehave to come together with
because we've been doing thejoint accounts for so long.
But I think we still need toemphasize that there's got to be
(31:07):
trust within your relationshipperiod in order for this, for
that particularly financial way,to actually work for a couple,
especially black couples.
Shay Cook (31:16):
Yeah, yeah, because I see a lot, and I'm meeting a
lot of women now that are makingmore than their husbands, and
that's becoming an issue too,you know.
So where is the trusting?
It really comes down to thetrust, or is's a power of
control struggle there, right,where the woman's like, nah, I'm
making all the money, you'regoing to do all this, and the
man's like I'm the man, so youknow.
So that's another conversationas well.
Nate Cook (31:45):
We don't want to get into it, like we can get into it
, but I think a lot butgenerationally women have
portion comes in right.
Shay Cook (31:51):
That's true, and that's for men too.
Nate Cook (31:53):
Like, I can't.
Like if I thought that the onlyreason that you kept money in a
separate account was to leaveme, yeah, Then I wouldn't trust
you having a separate account,right, because that's what
happened back in the day.
Yeah, you would have a jointaccount and women would just
take a little bit here, take alittle bit there, create another
account, and then one day youwould be gone, yeah.
And so not to say that youcan't leave, but I trust that
(32:17):
the power of our relationshipand our faith that that's not
going to happen.
Not for that reason, not forthat reason.
Yeah, right, yeah, and so Ithink that's a big thing.
Shay Cook (32:28):
That's where.
That's the trust portion of it.
Again, it is really a trusttime.
Yeah, really.
You know, marriage is areflection of God's love, and
finances should be managed withthat wisdom, that patience and
faith.
I have to say it takes myhusband.
He brought a lot of wisdom tothis.
I mean, as I get older I'maccumulating that wisdom, but he
had that initially andthroughout and the patience has
definitely been there.
(32:54):
I know I didn't have a lot ofpatience.
I'm having more now, but thankGod for God.
I always say thank God forJesus, thank God for the Holy
Spirit to keep me in faith andjust really trusting that my
husband's going to hold us down.
That's one thing I have to sayabout Nathaniel Cook, my husband
.
I ain't never really worriedthat we weren't going to have no
money.
He was spending it on somethingfrivolously.
There was moments where I wasworried about the shoes, there
was moments about the bourbon,even back in the day.
I remember the video games andall that.
(33:14):
But my husband always made surethe bills were paid.
There was never no doubt thatthe basic necessities were there
.
We always have food.
So that's that form of trust,ladies, and you know it's just
really understanding that youknow that your husband's going
to provide.
That gives you a comfort and apeace, and I thank God for that.
So, nate, this was a greatconversation.
Any final thoughts before wewrap up?
Nate Cook (33:36):
I just want the world to know that I love you and I
appreciate everything you do andI support you fully.
I know it's hard what you do,so you're very appreciated and I
think that hopefully this helpsa lot of people.
Shay Cook (33:47):
I hope so too, and thank you.
I love you more than you even.
I think you know I know I geton your nerves, we get on your
nerves, but, but in allseriousness, you're an amazing
husband.
I thank you for what you do.
You're an amazing father and Ijust look forward to growing
with you and doing great things.
And for everybody listening, Iwould suggest you have a money
date with your spouse or yourpartner this week and pray over
(34:09):
your finances and, just likeNate said earlier I don't know
if he saw this in the notes, buthe said it already you know
aligning with your financialvision, whether it's a little
different, just making sureyou're going in the right
direction.
I definitely pray for you alland thank you for joining us and
have a wonderful day.
A big thank you for listeningto this episode.
We hope you found today's chatabout the intersection of
(34:31):
religion and money insightful.
We would love to hear yourfeedback.
Hit that subscribe button orfollow the podcast and please
feel free to leave us a review.
For the latest Yahweh's Moneycontent, visit us at
crusaders4changeorg or find usanywhere you listen to podcasts.
Until next time, stayfinancially fit and spiritually
(34:59):
inspired and remember it'salways better Yahweh's way.
I don't know from where I grew up.
It wasn't that we had the worstof things right.
We were kept okay.
It wasn't the greatest, but itwas okay, because I always
figured that with patience, youknow, and perseverance, we would
be able to live with thosethings without all the debt and
all the crap that comes withgetting them.
And I think we've achieved alot of that.
There's always room to do more,but I think we've achieved a
(00:24):
lot of that.
Shay Cook (00:31):
Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and
money come up?
You're not alone.
Welcome to Yahweh's Money, thepodcast where we tackle the
crossroads of faith and finance.
I'm Shay Cook, an AccreditedFinancial Counselor and the CEO
and Founder of Crusaders forChange LLC.
Join us on our journey as wediscuss topics like tithing,
saving and conquering debtthrough religious perspectives.
Let's get started.
(00:51):
Hey everyone, welcome back toanother episode of Yahweh's
Money.
Actually, this is our seasonfour.
I'm excited to be back.
Episode 79, God is Good.
So thank you for joining ustoday.
Today we're talking about loveand legacy, strengthening Black
marriages through faith andfinance.
I'm all about in the season ofBlack excellence, so I'm really
(01:13):
excited about this.
Before I introduce our amazingguest today, marriage is really
a divine covenant, but whathappens when faith, finances and
culture intersect?
Let's explore how biblicalprinciples guide love, money and
legacy in Black marriages.
So our main scripture for todayis Ecclesiastics 4.12, which
(01:34):
states Though one may beoverpowered, two can defend
themselves.
A cord of these three strandsis not quickly broken.
So you know, coming together ina marriage, having married
almost 26 years, which is crazyUs two together can, I mean,
just really take over the world.
I guess, if you really want tosay that.
But anyways, back to our guest,Nathaniel Cook Jr, my husband of
(01:58):
almost 26 years.
He's amazing, wise.
He's a retired Air Forceservice member.
He works for companies manydifferent companies over the
years since he got out of themilitary.
I'm not even going to mentionthe company.
If he wants to, he can.
But we've done great thingstogether in terms of marriage
and money and family, especially.
(02:18):
I would say, our best gift andthing that we did together was
create our daughter, Alana Cook,who is 24.
But we traveled all around theworld thanks to his military
career.
I think we've done really wellwhen it comes to money, but
we're going to talk about thattoday.
Welcome, Nathaniel, Nate.
Nate Cook (02:32):
Thank you for having me.
Shay Cook (02:33):
Yeah, finally right, season four and we finally have
you.
Well, I mean, you weren'talways interested, but you were,
but I appreciate you being here.
We're talking about some deepstuff here and the Bible and
money.
So how are you feeling today?
Nate Cook (02:45):
I'm good, as you know .
Shay Cook (02:46):
I'm very interested in your topics, but I'm always
kind of worried about where tolead us when we have I mean,
yeah, we have some I wouldn'tsay heated maybe heated, but
sometimes it's deeper than whatsome people can handle.
But because he is so wise,y'all, I mean you're going to
(03:09):
see that today my husband iswise above his age.
I mean, even when we were inour twenties, even when we were
our team.
Well, I was in our teens, hewas in his twenties, I was 19.
He was 20.
Yeah, it wasn't that kind ofsituation y'all.
That's hilarious, nate.
But he taught me a lot aboutsavings.
I mean, I was really just aspender, he was the saver and
where he comes from, it was veryjust shocking that he wasn't
the opposite of what I was, orhe is opposite of what I was,
(03:29):
but he really just taught me alot.
I always tell people myhusband's taught me a lot around
money, because I'm not going toput my parents' business out
there, but I just did theopposite of everything they did
and I actually did well.
But I mean, I consider myself apersonal financial expert now,
but it all started with myhusband just teaching me like,
you know what, when we gotthings going on, we need to save
(03:49):
, and I'm not mad at that.
So anything you want to add toyour introduction.
Nate Cook (03:54):
No, I think that that's a that does a good job.
All what's on your spirit.
Take your seat.
Let the wisdom inherit.
Shay Cook (04:14):
Hit the rapid fire questions Say what's on your
spirit?
Now we're going to get into oursection of rapid fire questions
.
We introduced this late lastseason where we just asked three
quick questions to see whereour guest's head is around.
Marriage or just money?
(04:35):
And the Bible and the word?
So what's one financial lessonyou wish you knew before
marriage?
Nate Cook (04:42):
I wish that I understood and that I knew that
it takes a compromise.
So when we first got together,I wasn't aware that we should
both come to a decision when itcame to finances, considering
where we both came from.
So I wish I knew more aboutactually just coming together
with somebody and say, hey, whatdo you think about this or what
(05:04):
do you think about that,especially when it comes to
finances.
But that's about marriage.
Compromise is what marriage isabout too.
Shay Cook (05:11):
Exactly, exactly, instead of one of us saying no,
we're going to do this or theother, and one taking the lead.
It's a compromise, it's a jointdecision.
Nate Cook (05:19):
Yes, absolutely.
Shay Cook (05:20):
Yeah, okay, well, you know we were raised by parents
that were in a differentgeneration, that usually the men
.
If there was a man in ahousehold, they took the lead,
they were the breadwinner, andthat's the kind of household I
was.
My mom didn't have much saywhat happened to the money, even
though she did, but my fatherwas like you know, he brought in
the money home and he made alot of decisions and you were
(05:40):
early on, was like this and needto be joint.
But in the very beginning itwasn't always like that.
Nate Cook (05:44):
But yeah, no, I think we came.
I think we started tounderstand that neither one of
us is always right Right, and soyou have to be smart enough to
understand that you know we helpeach other in different regards
and to be able to step backsometimes and be like, okay,
yeah, well, it's fine that I'mnot getting my way, because it's
(06:05):
good for us as a family and notjust me as a person.
Shay Cook (06:08):
Yeah, oh yeah.
We're going to tell some ofthose stories about that later,
y'all, cause I have those fordays where Nate was like no, we
don't need to do this, and Iacted like a little kid having
tantrums, and then I realizedlater, yeah, he was right, so
hey, it happens, right.
So next question how does faithhelp navigate financial
disagreements and marriage?
Nate Cook (06:26):
That's a good question.
I'm still wrestling with that.
Faith is is a central portionof, I think, of how we handle
disagreements in general, to notgo extremely deep in it.
But I think you know, with yourfaith in God, you kind of it
kind of leads you to be morepatient and perceptive of the
other person, because that's abig, a big tenet and having
(06:49):
faith is just the patience partof it.
Shay Cook (06:52):
So, yeah, the patience and the peace of it all
and just trusting when youcan't even, you don't even know
what to trust, or just to haveto have faith, is not seen Right
.
So having faith not only in God, but in each other and
individually and yourself,because I see a lot of people, a
lot of couples, strugglebecause of the way they were
raised.
They don't have even the trustin themselves, and then they
have this partner that they'rerelying wholly on and then they
(07:12):
don't have any trust in God.
So it just gets crazy.
So all right.
Last question what's one waycouples can build wealth
together?
I don't know if we still learnthat.
Nate Cook (07:25):
If you know, please let me know.
I don't know how.
There's different ways to buildwealth.
Doing it as a couple is kind ofhard, especially when people
are not aligned, so maybe that'sthe best way to build wealth
together is just to becomealigned, to develop a vision,
and it doesn't have to be thesame vision, it just has to be
pointed in the same direction.
Shay Cook (07:41):
And they have to complement each other, which is
pointing in the same direction,I agree, has to be pointed in
the same direction, and theyhave to compliment each other.
Yeah, which is pointing in thesame direction, I agree.
I'm reading this devotionaly'all that really talks about
that, and it talks.
It's a leadership devotionalaround God and being a great
leader.
But it always says that, like,you got to have a clear vision
for your people to follow, and Ithink that's the same in a
marriage, right, having that,like Nate's, that complements
each other.
It goes in the same direction.
(08:02):
We used to say, you know,sometimes men are on Mars, venus
, wherever planet they are.
We want to come back here onEarth and try to be one and
aligned.
So, all right, thank you,nathaniel.
That was great.
Rapid fire question section.
Now we're going to get into ourmain discussion around
strengthening Black marriagesthrough faith and finance.
As most of you hopefully know,god should be the center of the
(08:22):
marriage.
That's not always the case, butwhy faith strengthens
relationships and finances.
I mean it really comes down to,like Nate's saying, having that
vision.
But where have we struggledwith that?
Let's get into the real stuff.
Nate Cook (08:34):
With faith and finance?
Yeah, I think we.
Well, I think that you arestronger in faith than I am.
I struggle with faith, not inthe large term of it, but just
dealing with the way the worldis.
I have a hard time sometimesabsorbing all of it and not
being bogged down into it, andthat impacts the way I look at
(08:58):
everything.
So I'm a stickler for gettinginsurance for this and getting
insurance for that.
I'm always worried about therainy day fund type of situation
.
So that's where it always leadsme.
And that's not saying I don'thave faith in things that work
out the right way.
I'm just always concerned thatwe won't be prepared for when
things don't work out the rightway.
Shay Cook (09:17):
Yeah, and that's what we're trying to teach our
clients, yep.
Nate Cook (09:19):
So that's where I'm always concerned, and I don't
know if that's because and I'mwell, I'm absolutely sure it's
because of the way I grew up.
Right, I didn't grow up with alot, and so I was always
concerned that there was all.
You know, the rug is going tobe pulled out from under us,
which is a big concern of whatgoes on now, and so I'm always
concerned that I'm not going tobe able to provide or that we're
(09:40):
not going to be able to sustainwhere we are today.
So and that weighs on me veryheavily and faith would be a way
I could sit back and say well,no, it'll be okay.
I've never been comfortable inthat position, but you know,
that's what I have you for.
So you're supposed to be thatbridge, that support, to be like
, yeah, you're okay.
Shay Cook (10:00):
Yeah.
Nate Cook (10:01):
I use you to kind of counterbalance my ineptitude
when it comes to pay.
So I'm leaning on you for that.
Shay Cook (10:09):
Yeah, you do, but I also lean on you for that.
Obviously, you're thebreadwinner and we provide
together.
But the way I was raised, eventhough my dad was the
breadwinner, my mom is a freespirit, so she was out there
just doing a lot and we hadeverything we needed and more.
When I started dating Nate, andeven once we got married, I
just was always thinking like Ineed all this and I really
didn't, and I didn't take thetime to think.
(10:31):
It takes time to build up.
I just remember we were inGermany and I wanted to.
I think let me go back to evenOmaha when I wanted to buy that
table, the dining room table$8,000, $10,000 table.
Yeah, that table was.
And I remember calling my momand she's like, shay, I didn't
get all this stuff.
It took me 20 some years to getall this stuff.
I'm like, yeah, but we needed adining room table.
(10:53):
We end up going out in NebraskaFurniture Mark buying like a
$400 table that we still have.
We don't use it, we save it forour dollar to take to her house
whenever she move out.
But I remember that and I was sosad like I wanted that big old
table and then we ended upbuying a nicer table later on.
But I mean, I have so manystories about me wanting
something then and now andNate's like, no, we cannot do
(11:14):
this right now.
And just being so sad about itand feeling like and I think a
lot of it came from the shame ofpeople coming to our house.
I remember even let's go backto Germany and having the FMO,
the Furniture Management Office,family furniture, the rental
furniture is military.
People that listen, understand,but those even civilians, when
you go certain places, themilitary will provide you this
furniture and it's all hard andit's not comfortable.
(11:36):
And I wanted all the nicefurniture and Nate's like, no,
we don't need to buy that.
So we finally bought ourItalian leather set like right
before we left and we still gotthat.
Now it was just crazy because Ialways felt shame about the way
my house looked, because my mamahad all this nice stuff.
I always thought from thebeginning but no, she had to
build up to it as well.
So I thought I was going tocome in and 20 something, get
(11:58):
married and have a house full ofbeautiful furniture, shrunks
and all this stuff my mama had.
It's funny how my mom's a freespirit and she was like no, shay
, it took me a while to get tothat, so I just had a different
mentality.
But now it's like but I metpeople like that young service
members, young people evenoutside of the military.
They 20 some years old and theyhave everything quote unquote
they needed, but they were goinginto debt doing all of that.
Nate Cook (12:22):
Well, let's not forget, you know, that we could
have bought those things, wecould have, we could have had a
lot of those things, but we Idon't know from where I grew up,
but like it wasn't that we hadthe worst of things.
Right we were.
We were kept okay.
It wasn't the greatest, but itwas okay, cause I always figured
that with patience, you know,and perseverance we would have,
we would be able to live withthose things without all the
(12:43):
debt and all the crap that comeswith getting them.
And I think we've achieved alot of that.
There's always room to do more,but I think we've achieved a
lot of that.
And it was never a place, itwas never a portion of me that
said we needed it now Because Iknew that.
I guess that's part of thefaith that I had that we would
get it later and it was neverabout now.
(13:04):
And that's the way I live mylife today.
Right, it's always abouttomorrow.
Yeah, life is.
I heard as a comedian said thisone time.
He's like life is not short,life is long.
And if you start looking at itlike that, with that lens,
you'll understand that.
You know today it can be hard,but you know tomorrow will come,
yeah, and so we could have nicefurniture today.
It's going to get old, it'sgoing to get battered, and then
(13:26):
you know, we'll spend all thisgreat amount of money on things
that we can't even take with us.
And I never looked at it likewe should spend all our money on
that because, again, my my wayof looking at it, like
something's going to happen.
Yeah, might need that money andthank God we didn't, because
there were things that happenedAlways.
We needed that Again.
But that's not about beingright or wrong, that's just
(13:49):
about being cautious andbelieving that tomorrow will
come.
Shay Cook (13:52):
And we'll be there.
Nate Cook (13:53):
Especially when we are not getting like the things
that we got weren't bad things.
Shay Cook (13:59):
No, they weren't they last yeah.
Nate Cook (14:00):
Let's not get things in and get confused Like we
didn't go out and buy a bunch ofjunk.
Shay Cook (14:03):
No, we didn't Right.
Nate Cook (14:05):
We just didn't get the greatest of things.
Shay Cook (14:07):
Yeah.
Yeah, it was like tier oneversus tier three, like they're
really expensive, but we alsotake care of our stuff too, and
I think that matters.
Nate Cook (14:17):
You take good care of me.
You take good care of thethings that we have of our
daughter, so a lot of that isyou.
Shay Cook (14:22):
Well, I appreciate that.
I mean the preserved stuff,whether it's cheap or old or new
and fancy, you got to take careof your stuff or it'll just
fall apart.
Nate Cook (14:31):
No, our stuff is not cheap?
Shay Cook (14:33):
I mean, I guess not.
It's inexpensive.
Nate Cook (14:36):
Yeah, obviously.
Shay Cook (14:36):
Because even some of that stuff we bought from Ikea
it's still there.
We still got it.
Some of that stuff we got isstill around.
Some of that stuff fell apart,but you take care of it, you
know.
But I was going to go back toyou even saying like life is
long, you're right, and justit's long and we've had a long
marriage and I hope it continuesto grow and all that.
But I just think when I wasyounger, I know, when I was
(15:02):
younger, I didn't have faithlike that.
I don't even consider myself ababy in Christ.
At that time I just was livingmy life.
My ego was driven me, I wasjust doing whatever as a young
person.
But as I started to get closerto God, things really started to
change.
I started to be having morefaith.
Obviously, as you start to knowGod more and then just grow and
just being patient that he'sgoing to provide, I mean, my ego
is still there and just manydifferent ways it shows up.
(15:24):
And but when it came to themoney, I really trusted my
husband when he came to thatbecause he's a provider.
He's always provided from thevery beginning until now and I'm
sure, in the future.
But having that I won't call ita crutch, but having that, just
what's the word?
He's just a provider.
He's just always therefinancially and more.
So I didn't have to worry aboutthat, and so it gave me the
(15:51):
freedom to be more.
I don't consider myself a freespirited, but give myself more
time to fail or to make mistakes, and knowing that my husband's
going to be there to pick me upis a great thing.
It's nice to have that.
So I appreciate you and thankyou for always being a provider.
But I also saw that in myfather.
I see that in my brother andmany others.
A lot of people have certaincircles of men that don't do
that.
But I have to say my uncles, mygrandfather I've been around
(16:15):
men that always provided.
So I wouldn't expect myself tobe with nobody, but somebody
provided in many different waysoutside of even financially.
Nate Cook (16:23):
You were raised by good people, and good people
raise good people.
Shay Cook (16:26):
Yeah, shout out to Reverend Mitchell Toll, so he
was an amazing father.
So so common financialstruggles in black marriages we
talk about this a lot and justall the craze from our
generation.
We're generation X, y'all, andwe got a millennial Not my
daughter.
What's our daughter GenerationZ-er?
She ain't no millennial.
Nate Cook (16:43):
I don't know, I can never get married.
Shay Cook (16:45):
She's a Generation Z-er, I think so.
No, she's not alpha.
That's our young niece andnephew, breaking those
generation cycles of debt.
You know, managing expectations, building generational wealth,
which earlier.
There's a lot of struggles inBlack marriages.
(17:05):
If there even is a marriageLike that's a whole nother
conversation, right.
A lot of people.
There's still a lot of Blackwomen out there that aren't
married and it's justunfortunately, with all the
systematic issues in thiscountry.
But we're talking about debt.
And what did you see growing up?
Did your family have a lot ofdebt?
Nate Cook (17:15):
No, my family didn't have a lot of debt, but my
family didn't have a lot ofwealth either.
I grew up in a single parenthousehold, so it was just my.
I was raised by women blackwomen so that was a good thing
for me.
So I got kind of to see thatother side of it.
But there was never a place ora time when they borrowed money
and that may be a systemic thingbecause you know, loans and
(17:37):
those things weren't reallyavailable but they never really
asked for things.
We were never on the I wouldsay, extreme poor side of life
growing up in Baltimore, butthere was by no means wealth in
our house.
We didn't survive paycheck topaycheck, but it was like every
other paycheck to paycheck typeof thing.
So we had struggle and Ilearned to be happy with what I
(17:59):
had.
I didn't want what my mom had.
She didn't have anybody to bethere for her If something
happened, something broke,something needed fixed.
It was all her kind of placewhere you become a man earlier
(18:22):
than you need to be a man andyou start picking up traits that
are not necessarily masculinebecause you grew up in a house
of women and so they saw womensolve problems differently than
men do, and so I began to solvemy problems in that way.
They weren't conducive to theway the world was asking me to
solve problems, and so I fellbehind Right, and so I had to
learn how to be was asking me tosolve problems, and so I fell
behind right, and so I had tolearn how to be masculine and
(18:44):
how to solve problems that aremore conducive to the way the
world expects me to solveproblems.
As a black man, it's a littleharder because you got to deal
with that and the racism andeverything else that comes into
it.
So when I learned that and Iunderstood that, you know, I got
to be a little stronger incertain areas and be able to be
vulnerable in another area, andmy wife was there to help me be
(19:07):
vulnerable in areas that I feltI couldn't be vulnerable in.
I still struggle with that, butnot as badly as I used to.
It's very hard to struggle withthat, but when it comes to like
breaking cycles of debt, wejust I was never a person.
I learned to manipulate debtfrom those women Like, again,
they weren't getting loans andthings like that, but they never
(19:30):
had a lot of money to go aroundwith and to do anything they
wanted to be with.
So they learned how to managedebt, which I think is a key
component of the way I do things.
Now.
We don't always agree on thisyeah, we don't but I learned to
navigate the debt that I keepbecause I know that I have to
live not just for today but fortomorrow.
Like paying for me.
(19:51):
Paying off a dollar is good topay it off, but if you charge me
10 cents for that dollartomorrow, I'll pay the 10 cent
because I might need that dollarfor tomorrow.
That's the way I look at it,and I'm not saying it's the best
way, but I have enough.
I've always had enough to payoff any outstanding debt that I
(20:11):
have.
If push came to shove, it waslike okay, you can be debt free
If that's what it called for,but if it's not calling for it,
that's what it called for, butif it's not calling for it, I'll
pay it off in time and that way, just in case God forbid car
breaks down, something happensto our house, I can pull from
that fund and then we don't haveto accrue a larger debt.
Shay Cook (20:32):
Yeah, I understand that we do have arguments with
that y'all and that's from thetrauma of childhood.
I'm seeing parents that had alot of debt, a lot of credit
card debt, that argued so muchover balance checks, credit
cards, so many other issues, andI know when I and then going to
college and just really takingtime to I was self-taught when
it came to learning how tomanage finances and then
(20:54):
eventually I got myaccreditation and financial
counseling, but I just don'tbelieve in paying debt.
I don't.
I mean, I just believe inpaying debt.
I use credit cards because Ilove the points and the rewards
and stuff, but I just was like Idon't want to have to pay the
man.
I'm sure that came fromchildhood or something, hearing
my daddy talk about people in acertain way, not to say I ain't
(21:17):
never had a credit card thataccumulated debt.
That's not true, because I didearlier on but once I paid them
off, I strive monthly, not tosay I ain't never had a credit
card that accumulated debtthat's not true, because I did
earlier on but once I paid themoff, like I strive like monthly
to pay all my credit card debtoff before the interest hit.
Now, with the business, that'sdifferent, because I can, you
can write off that debt, you canwrite off that interest, but
not with a personal.
So I literally and I havegotten on Nate like why you
(21:37):
don't pay off that credit card,and he explains what he just
explained to y'all right now andI'm like I'm still like it
don't make sense to me.
But hey, but now it kind ofmakes more sense because he's
like you know, I got the savingswe might be able to use that.
And I'm like, well, I got thiscredit card and I can use it and
I'll just pay it off with mysavings later.
So it both works for us.
And I just want to say in thismoment that even though we
(21:57):
different.
We could be different in arelationship and still, you know
, like you said, be able to havea good relationship.
I mean, we're different people,we have different ideologies
and stuff around certain things,but I just don't believe in
carrying credit card debt andI'm sure, again, that's from
trauma.
Nate Cook (22:13):
Our belief is that we manage it differently.
Yeah, we manage it differently,and so I think the problem
comes in if we didn't believe inmanaging it at all.
Right, like we just forgetabout it, like it's not there
but that's so, that's not whathappens.
So I think we just manage itdifferently.
Shay Cook (22:28):
Yeah, I agree, yeah, and you know.
And just how do we deal withhelping the black community
build generational wealth?
I know, being part of NAACP andeconomic empowerment chair, a
lot of people are struggling,but I realize I mean I realized
this for years a lot ofsystematic and systemic, but so
I don't even want to go there.
You know, it's just like what.
How do we teach our daughterLike she, I think, first we're
(22:55):
we're a good role models when itcomes to money.
She's seen that we've acquiredwealth or just accumulated house
and which is part of wealth andstuff like that, just by being
responsible.
I think she realizes that.
But how else do you think we'reteaching her Seeing it?
Nate Cook (23:05):
helps, right, seeing that the possibility exists
helps.
From where I grew up, I didn'tknow that where we live today
was possible, crazy enough,until I saw where you live and
how we got to live, and so thenI was like, ok, the possibility
exists, right, so it can happen.
All the black people I knewgrowing up, we were living again
not, we weren't at poverty'sdoorstep, but we weren't far
from it and so I thought it wasnatural to have animals in your
(23:30):
house that were not dogs or cats, right, having mice in your
home was like something that yougrew up with, and it was like
it wasn't like a I mean, itwasn't a good thing, but it was
something that was.
And when I met you and saw yourway your family lived, I was
like, oh, this is new, this isthis we don't have.
(23:51):
They don't have mice.
It's fine, it's cool, thatthat's a good thing.
So it changed my perspective andI think that we've taught our
daughter that like this is apossibility for black people to
live in a way that we live Notalways extravagant, but we do
take, we do indulge in some ofthe finer things in life that
you know that we can afford.
(24:11):
I think we've also taught thatwe don't live beyond our means,
but we can do some of the thingsthat would be considered luxury
to others.
But it's become, which is agood and bad thing.
It's become normalized for us.
Shay Cook (24:25):
Yeah, but we prepare for it, even though it's
normalized.
Nate Cook (24:27):
We don't just go crazy In her eyes.
Shay Cook (24:30):
That becomes normal.
Becomes normal.
Yeah, so it becomes anentitlement, a privilege for her
.
Yeah, so that's a bad thing.
Nate Cook (24:35):
Right there's two, yeah, yeah so, but but she sees
again the possibilities that ithappens.
So that creates a, that createsa different floor for her like
so my floor is to never go backto where I was.
Her floor is where we areExactly yeah.
Shay Cook (24:49):
She never experienced that underneath an underbelly
of it all.
Nate Cook (24:54):
I mean, I lived in my mom's basement, right, and it
wasn't the basement that wewould consider now, right, we
have carpets and no, that's notwhat it was.
It was it was.
It was pretty bad, consideringwhere we are today and what we
would do in a basement today.
Shay Cook (25:09):
Yeah.
Nate Cook (25:10):
Yeah, so my daughter doesn't know that lifestyle, and
that's again, that's not a badthing, but it does set a
different standard for her.
So anything that she achieves,or that she tries to accomplish,
will start from where we are.
Yeah, that's true, andunderstanding that we do it
responsibly and it's not withoutits challenges or struggle, but
(25:31):
she sees all of those and shesees the triumph and the
failures.
That gives her a better placeto start.
I don't know if it's aboutgenerational wealth, but I think
it's about generationalunderstanding right which we
have worked hard to acquire, andfor her it's an entitlement.
Yeah it is.
Shay Cook (25:49):
And just the knowledge of it all and her
mother being able to.
I mean, before Alana went tocollege, I put I, we did
financial counseling that wholesummer because I wanted to make
sure she was on a budget spendplan and, like, make sure she
was responsible for certainthings.
Even though Nate and I paid forher tuition and her room and
board, she had to pay for allthe other little things.
And so her understanding thatand even now she graduated from
(26:11):
college, she's back at home, sheknows, when she moves out
because she's going to move outthat she needs to figure out
what that looks like.
And she's already thinking like, all right, rent, I'm going to
have to have a roommate wherecan I live that's safe, but also
that I can afford.
But she's really thinking aboutthat.
She knows she can't be.
She still has the privilege ofher parents.
But you know, eventually she'sgoing to have to be independent,
and we talked about ityesterday.
She's like I am dependent,independent.
(26:32):
I'm like, yeah, you can takecare of yourself, but you're not
financially independent yet.
So you know, and she needs tounderstand that.
Nate Cook (26:39):
Yeah, the difference.
I think that also that we needto.
I mean, the issue that we hadwith her was we had to set
expectations and that movinghome after college in my
generation was something thatyou didn't want to do and her
generation, I think, is probablynecessary.
Considering the landscape ofthe world, Getting a home and
buying a home for $100,000,$90,000, $80,000, whatever it
(27:00):
was back then was normal, right.
You can't do that now.
Shay Cook (27:04):
Yeah.
Nate Cook (27:04):
So expecting somebody to again her floor is where we
are is our present.
She would not be able to affordthat home, but that's her
expectation.
So that's a part of that badside that we have to deal with
and she has to contend with.
But I think we've set afoundation where she understands
that you don't get thisimmediately.
There was a workup for it.
(27:28):
We didn't start in this house,we worked up to it and so, with
her understanding that, then Ithink she'll be able to accept
okay, this is what I can affordnow and that's the key word now.
Shay Cook (27:38):
This is what I can afford now or now with, yeah,
with your current salary budget,whatever, and having an
understanding of that, yeah, andnot going buying a bunch of new
furniture like her mama wastrying to do at her age.
A lot of people do now A lot ofpeople do now.
Yeah, so she's going todefinitely get that.
You know that knowledge of itall.
So, lastly, I want to talkabout studies show financial
(27:59):
stress is a top cause of divorce.
So how can faith shift thisnarrative?
Think I didn't happen to us.
Nate Cook (28:06):
How can faith shift it?
Yeah, I think we just have youknow you with our beliefs.
I think it kind of helps.
I think there was a God.
We know we've gone through ourtroubles.
It's never been about money.
Shay Cook (28:18):
No, it hasn't, Thank God.
Nate Cook (28:20):
And I think that's because we kind of, once we got
past the initial stuff withmoney that we had, we kind of
decided that that wasn't goingto be something that we died on
a hill for.
Yeah Right, and I think that'sstill important Again.
We have disagreements aboutthings, but it's never to a
point where it means that we'regoing to end what we have become
together.
Shay Cook (28:38):
I think that's faith.
It's faith, it's God.
It's just seeing what myparents going through, but also
just not sticking to tradition.
I think for me, I know, comingin, I was like sticking to
tradition, I think for me, Iknow, coming in, I was like in
Germany, I'm like we got to havea joint account.
We got to have a joint account.
My mom and dad have a jointaccount and he's like, nah, I
ain't doing that.
I was like, no, what?
(28:59):
I was really mad about that.
But we have a joint account nowfor joint things.
But we always kept our money.
We had separate accounts too.
And then we finally startedcoming together when it came to
investing and stuff.
We're still working on it.
But, yeah, and a lot of couplesand actually a lot of people in
the church used to get me andthat was a shame of it all.
A lot of people were like youain't got no joint account,
(29:19):
what's wrong with y'all?
Like what?
What are you talking?
First of all, I don't even know.
I was telling them my business,but I was young, right, trying
to learn everything, and peoplein that generation really made
me the baby boomers and earliergeneration Xers just really made
me feel guilty about not havinga joint account.
And now I'm meeting a lot ofclients that are young and it's
like, no, I'm keeping my ownaccount.
You know, it's just different.
(29:39):
So, not being in that traditionof it all and trying to follow
certain traditions or standardsor stereotypes or whatever, but
we made it work for what workedfor us standards or stereotypes
or whatever, but we made it workfor what worked for us.
Nate Cook (29:50):
We got to remember, though, that requires trust,
right?
So that's what that?
That that the underlying partof that is trust.
So if I can't trust you withwhat you're doing with your
account and you can't trust mewith what I'm doing with my
account, then that doesn't workat all, Right, and so that's a
big that's a huge key of that.
If we're both untrustworthy,and even though we're paying
(30:10):
let's say we have there's threeaccounts mine, yours, and a
joint one and the joint one isdoing fine, we're paying all the
bills we want, but if we don'ttrust each other with the money
that we have in our own accounts, then that doesn't work.
Shay Cook (30:23):
Yeah.
Nate Cook (30:24):
Right, because then I'm worried about you spending
frivolously, you're worriedabout me spending frivolously,
you're worried about me spendingfrivolously and things
happening.
But if we don't trust what wegot going on, then there's so
many underlying issues that comefrom that.
Shay Cook (30:38):
That is so true.
Nate Cook (30:45):
I trust that if something happens, even with
that joint account, whateverthat you'll be like, don't worry
about it.
I got the rest of it becauseit's here.
I'm not spending crazy.
We're not doing.
We can still do the otherthings that we want to do, and
the same goes for me, and so Ithink we do need to do better
with the investing portion andthe retirement part, and I think
that's just something that wehave to come together with
because we've been doing thejoint accounts for so long.
But I think we still need toemphasize that there's got to be
(31:07):
trust within your relationshipperiod in order for this, for
that particularly financial way,to actually work for a couple,
especially black couples.
Shay Cook (31:16):
Yeah, yeah, because I see a lot, and I'm meeting a
lot of women now that are makingmore than their husbands, and
that's becoming an issue too,you know.
So where is the trusting?
It really comes down to thetrust, or is's a power of
control struggle there, right,where the woman's like, nah, I'm
making all the money, you'regoing to do all this, and the
man's like I'm the man, so youknow.
So that's another conversationas well.
Nate Cook (31:45):
We don't want to get into it, like we can get into it
, but I think a lot butgenerationally women have
portion comes in right.
Shay Cook (31:51):
That's true, and that's for men too.
Nate Cook (31:53):
Like, I can't.
Like if I thought that the onlyreason that you kept money in a
separate account was to leaveme, yeah, Then I wouldn't trust
you having a separate account,right, because that's what
happened back in the day.
Yeah, you would have a jointaccount and women would just
take a little bit here, take alittle bit there, create another
account, and then one day youwould be gone, yeah.
And so not to say that youcan't leave, but I trust that
(32:17):
the power of our relationshipand our faith that that's not
going to happen.
Not for that reason, not forthat reason.
Yeah, right, yeah, and so Ithink that's a big thing.
Shay Cook (32:28):
That's where.
That's the trust portion of it.
Again, it is really a trusttime.
Yeah, really.
You know, marriage is areflection of God's love, and
finances should be managed withthat wisdom, that patience and
faith.
I have to say it takes myhusband.
He brought a lot of wisdom tothis.
I mean, as I get older I'maccumulating that wisdom, but he
had that initially andthroughout and the patience has
definitely been there.
(32:54):
I know I didn't have a lot ofpatience.
I'm having more now, but thankGod for God.
I always say thank God forJesus, thank God for the Holy
Spirit to keep me in faith andjust really trusting that my
husband's going to hold us down.
That's one thing I have to sayabout Nathaniel Cook, my husband
.
I ain't never really worriedthat we weren't going to have no
money.
He was spending it on somethingfrivolously.
There was moments where I wasworried about the shoes, there
was moments about the bourbon,even back in the day.
I remember the video games andall that.
(33:14):
But my husband always made surethe bills were paid.
There was never no doubt thatthe basic necessities were there
.
We always have food.
So that's that form of trust,ladies, and you know it's just
really understanding that youknow that your husband's going
to provide.
That gives you a comfort and apeace, and I thank God for that.
So, nate, this was a greatconversation.
Any final thoughts before wewrap up?
Nate Cook (33:36):
I just want the world to know that I love you and I
appreciate everything you do andI support you fully.
I know it's hard what you do,so you're very appreciated and I
think that hopefully this helpsa lot of people.
Shay Cook (33:47):
I hope so too, and thank you.
I love you more than you even.
I think you know I know I geton your nerves, we get on your
nerves, but, but in allseriousness, you're an amazing
husband.
I thank you for what you do.
You're an amazing father and Ijust look forward to growing
with you and doing great things.
And for everybody listening, Iwould suggest you have a money
date with your spouse or yourpartner this week and pray over
(34:09):
your finances and, just likeNate said earlier I don't know
if he saw this in the notes, buthe said it already you know
aligning with your financialvision, whether it's a little
different, just making sureyou're going in the right
direction.
I definitely pray for you alland thank you for joining us and
have a wonderful day.
A big thank you for listeningto this episode.
We hope you found today's chatabout the intersection of
(34:31):
religion and money insightful.
We would love to hear yourfeedback.
Hit that subscribe button orfollow the podcast and please
feel free to leave us a review.
For the latest Yahweh's Moneycontent, visit us at
crusaders4changeorg or find usanywhere you listen to podcasts.
Until next time, stayfinancially fit and spiritually
(34:59):
inspired and remember it'salways better Yahweh's way.
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