September 12, 2024 • 32 mins
Do you struggle with the emotional and practical challenges of caring for aging parents? Join us on Yahweh's Money as Shay and Vanessa share heartfelt personal experiences and explore the profound intersection of faith and family. Reflecting on the teachings of 1 Timothy 5:4, they discuss the balance of love, duty, and obligation that accompanies caregiving. They'll also navigate the tricky waters of manipulation and boundary-setting, recognizing that not all parent-child relationships are built on unconditional love.
Planning for aging is more critical than ever, yet often overlooked. In this episode, they emphasize the necessity of having open, honest conversations about future needs and end-of-life arrangements. Their personal stories highlight the stress and limited options that arise when these discussions are skipped. Learn about the importance of estate planning, caregiving preferences, and financial preparations while your parents are still in good health, and discover how early planning can lead to more meaningful quality time together without the weight of unforeseen responsibilities or legal uncertainties.
Caregiving comes with its own set of complex dynamics and challenges, from financial burdens and work demands to the emotional toll of looking after a loved one from a distance. They'll uncover the importance of trust, respect for elders, and the value of professional caregivers to prevent burnout. By involving parents in the decision-making processes and creating comprehensive care plans, families can navigate these difficult conversations more effectively. Tune in for a thorough, heartfelt discussion that offers practical advice and valuable insights into the journey of caregiving for aging loved ones.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Shay (00:03):
Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and money
come up?
You're not alone.
Welcome to Yahweh's Money, thepodcast where we tackle the
crossroads of faith and finance.
I'm Shay Cook, an AccreditedFinancial Counselor, and the CEO
and founder of Crusaders forChange LLC.
Vanessa (00:19):
And I'm Vanessa McNelley, Accredited Financial
Counselor and COO of Crusadersfor Change.
Join us on our journey as wediscuss topics like tithing
saving and conquering debtthrough religious perspectives.
Let's get started!
Shay (00:35):
Welcome back to another episode of Yahweh's Money.
What's up, Vanessa?
Vanessa (00:41):
Nothing much.
I'm ready for the seriousconversation.
Shay (00:44):
Oh my God, we're always talking about serious stuff.
I mean, that's what happenswhen you talk about religion and
money, right?
So today, Vanessa and I will betaking on a subject that most
of us tiptoe around because ofthe stigma related to it.
Those of us who are stillfortunate enough to have our
parents around want the verybest for them.
(01:04):
That goes without saying.
Right, but is it fair for oursenior parents to count on us
for care as they age?
Nearly 70% of caregivers in theUS are family members, and not
all of them choose to be.
We'll explore the blend of love, duty and, oftentimes,
obligations, seen by bothparents and their children when
(01:27):
it comes to caregiving.
I'm going to stop there,Vanessa.
Wow, like 70%.
Yeah, I mean, that's a lot, wow.
I mean, I'm happy to hear thatpeople are taking care of their
family members, though I agree.
So you know.
But when you see all of these,you know the long-term care, all
these things coming up or, Iguess, senior centers and all
(01:48):
that.
I thought there was more peoplein there, but it sounds like
family members are taking careof themselves of their families.
Yeah, or their older parents.
Vanessa (01:57):
Yeah, it's a lot, but I guess we have to see at what
cost too.
That's true.
Shay (02:01):
That's true, well well, in 1 Timothy 5, 4 states.
But if a widow has children orgrandchildren, they should learn
first of all to put thereligion into practice by caring
for their own family and sorepaying their parents and
grandparents, for this ispleasing to God.
This passage specificallymentions the responsibility of
(02:25):
children and grandchildren tocare for their elderly relatives
, reflecting both familial dutyand religious values.
Yeah, I mean, that's ourresponsibility, huge though it's
big, it's a big responsibility.
Vanessa (02:42):
I guess we have to think too, like how much of that
responsibility is ours too.
Is it?
Everything, is it small parts ofit?
And there's different ways tolook at this too, and then we
can look at it from, you know,the child's point or the
parent's point.
So if we look at things firstfrom the parent's point of view,
you know the parent has alwaysgiven their child unconditional
(03:04):
love.
There's been that bond there,and they know how to manipulate
situations too in some ways sothat they can make a child feel
like I've always been there foryou.
I've always done things for you.
You owe this to me.
Shay (03:22):
Yeah.
Vanessa (03:23):
I don't know how you feel about that.
I had two parents that passed inthe last few years.
As you know, my mother was verygood about saying live your
life, do you?
You can't sit around and youcan't wait for me to die or
something to happen to me.
And then I had a dad who waslike you need to move home, you
(03:44):
need to come take care of me,you need to to sell everything
and live in my house and youknow, basically, be my keeper is
what he wanted, and he reallyknew how to push buttons and
make me feel so bad about notbeing there for him and you
think about, okay, well, theseare the people who put a roof
(04:06):
over your head and they, youknow, taught you how to ride a
bike and they made sure that youknow you were loved and cared
for your entire life and, youknow, talked you through a lot
of situations.
So you know, they do have that,that thought, and I think they
they have a point with that too.
Shay (04:26):
They do.
I mean, we both have parentsthat cared and loved for, loved
us and stuff.
But then on the flip side thereare some people that have
parents that don't do all ofthat.
They don't love themunconditionally and they still
expect their kids to take careof them.
So, I want to honor that too.
It's not not everybodylistening and not everyone in
the world has that unconditionallove and I also think, even
though I have that, I've seen,like you said, that manipulation
(04:49):
, that boundaries being crossedor disrespected or not honored,
aggressively manipulating, youknow just different things.
They're using thatunconditional love, abusing it.
I guess I should say so yeah andthat's probably more on the
children's argument or point ofview side.
But when it comes to theparents, I mean I guess I would
(05:11):
feel that way, coming methinking about my daughter.
Honestly I don't want to burdenher, but you know, I know some
people that do feel that way.
Vanessa (05:18):
Yeah, yeah, I had my grandmother.
She talked to all of herchildren and all of her
grandchildren and she made eachone of us promise that we would
never put her in a nursing homeand we would take care of her in
her own home.
Wow, and that was a big promiseto ask from a teenage girl.
Yes, and sometimes that's anunfair thing to ask, but I
(05:42):
understood her reasoning forthat, because she'd had sisters
that had gone to nursing homesand were not cared for properly.
So she just wanted to make surethat never happened to her
because she had Alzheimer's.
So, you know, she wouldn't bein a situation where she could
let someone know either if thathappened.
So I mean, that's a true pointof that too.
You know, and then we can lookat.
(06:04):
You know, family or cultural,like cultural traditions.
I know in Indonesia theyoungest child is expected to
take care of the parents whenthey're older, and that is a
huge burden or blessing.
However you look, at that.
On a child that, especially, isyounger and hasn't had time to
start a career or a family orkind of keep things going.
(06:28):
But there's that expectationthat this is what we do.
We take care of our own, wetook care of you, we took care
of our parents, so it's yourturn to take care of us, and
different cultures havedifferent ways of doing that.
But it is a beautiful thingwhen you look at this community
(06:48):
that can be built to take careof our elderly, and it's a
community that we know will love, support, come together, work
together as a team to take careof somebody as they're aging.
Shay (07:01):
I love the village concept .
I don't like when it's just theone person the old, younger kid
, the oldest kid, especially.
You got multiple siblings orother family members aunts,
uncles it usually ends up beingon the most responsible one, who
is the person that's takingcare of their family.
They're the most responsible atwork we kind of talked about it
(07:22):
in the last episode.
This person is doing all themost and then they end up having
that responsibility of theelderly and it's not fair.
It's just like what about yousibling ABCD?
Vanessa (07:32):
and aunt uncle and you know just that's not fair.
Shay (07:35):
It's not fair.
Vanessa (07:36):
But when it works and you have a village, it's a
beautiful thing I have some.
Puerto Rican friends and theyhave a mom and a dad that are
older and mom and dad are stillmarried but don't get along.
But what they do is they rotateand the parents stay with, you
know, child A a month, then theygo spend a month with child B,
(07:59):
then they go to child C and thenchild D, so they get three
months with each of theirchildren a year.
They get time with theirgrandchildren and their great
grandchildren and they rotateand then the children know I
will have mom or dad this monthand they they stay separately
too.
So you only have one parent totake care of at a time.
Shay (08:21):
Yeah, that works out for the marriage too, right, love it
.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, andit's like they only have one
parent At a time.
Vanessa (08:25):
Yeah, that works out for the mayors too.
Right, they love it.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, andit's like they only have one
parent at a time.
The grandchildren help as well,and it's just this beautiful
community that's been built andyou know when you're going to be
busier because you'll have yourparent there.
You know when you'll have moretime for vacations or whatever.
But it's so nice to see when afamily can come together like
(08:46):
that and really build this bond,and it's a beautiful, beautiful
thing.
Shay (08:52):
I love that.
That is beautiful yeah.
Vanessa (08:54):
You know, and sometimes it's all because there's a lack
of options.
That's another big thing.
Parents don't save, there's noretirement, there's no plan.
Big thing Parents don't save,there's no retirement, there's
no plan.
I know, I've experienced this alot.
My dad was kind of that way.
He had savings and he had a wayto pay for it, but he refused
(09:15):
to create a plan.
And that was something I'm very, very big on is let's have this
conversation, let's decidewhat's important, what's not
important, what will work foryou, what'll work for us, that
kind of thing.
But he didn't want to have thattalk and it was always like,
well, I'll just have somebodycome live in my house and
they'll live for free andthey'll be happy.
(09:36):
And it's like well, dude,nobody's going to want to live
in your house for free and bestuck I'm going to use that word
, stuck with you 24 seven.
They have their own lives.
They may have jobs, they maywant to go on vacation, they
might want to go visit theirgrandkids.
So the lack of a game plansometimes put to you in a
situation where you have to.
(09:58):
There's no other choice becausethere are wait lists for a lot
of places to put parents andgrandparents when you need that
and if you wait too long, you'rein this place where I don't
have any choices, I don't haveoptions, I don't know what to do
.
Shay (10:13):
I know and that's so sad because yeah, and it's so
expensive, right, getting inthose kind of facilities and
stuff.
So yeah, I know it's hard andpeople don't want to talk about.
You know getting old and deathand you know like which comes
around with insurance, estateplanning, we got into that kind
of thing.
But especially when you'relet's talk about why you're in
(10:34):
good health I think who was it?
One of my friends or mentorssaid to me the biggest advice I
got about aging parents is havethose conversations with your
parents.
And it might have been you,vanessa.
Have those conversations withyour parents while they're still
in their right mind, while onthe younger side, you know so,
maybe even still working, sothey can still plan and get that
(10:56):
in order and say I know youdon't want to and I actually,
about 10, 15 years ago, I satdown I'll never forget sitting
down at my parents' house andtheir dining table, dining room
table, and saying we need totalk about what it looks like
when you get older, what itlooks like when you pass.
We need to have theconversation, because my mom
always was like I'm going togive you this lodge roll, these
things, these statues she got inGermany.
(11:17):
I was like this is bigger thana lodge roll.
We need to have a conversationabout this house.
Where do you want to be buried?
But before you die, let's havea conversation about what do you
want to do if you get sick,what happens if my dad passes?
He takes care of my mother.
That is huge, like my family,that is a huge conversation that
we're still not settled on.
(11:38):
She's like oh well, we've had aconversation with your uncle,
who's a retired judge.
I'm like okay, but where's thepaperwork?
What does that look like whatif my dad passes before you?
Who's going to take care of you?
And my family always wants tojoke and say, oh, it's going to
be you, shay.
No, we need to have aconversation because I'm still
living my life, I'm still doingit and of course I'm going to
take care of my mother or myfather if they need to.
(11:59):
But it needs to be aconversation early on and I
think a lot of people don't havethat conversation.
They're so scared of theinevitable.
Vanessa (12:08):
I know, and it's so important, it's so so important
to be open and honest and talkabout those things.
And you know it's hard, like yousaid, but it gets easier.
And the reality of it is iswhat happens during that time.
I mean, it's huge.
It's like do you want to havetime with your children, where
(12:28):
it's them taking care of you andgiving you showers and changing
your sheets, or do you wantquality time with your children
when they're visiting, so youget to spend time with them and
reminisce and talk and do allthese things?
But sometimes, because there isno planning, you're put in this
position like, okay, I thoughtmom and dad had a plan, I
(12:52):
thought everything was good togo, but reality is there's
nothing put in place.
And you know, I just wentthrough this with my dad who had
, you know, promised there was awill, because I'm very big on
having your estate in order aswell and then he passed and
there was nothing.
So do this, have theseconversations, talk to your kids
, tell them why you're doingwhat you're doing and get that
(13:12):
final say with what you want to,but do it in a way that makes
sense for everybody.
So you know, and then you havethis thing where parents are
like, well, I want this becauseI trust you and I you know, I'm
familiar with you and we knoweach other and I know that you
will have my best interest atheart.
And that makes a lot of sensebecause somebody that's there
(13:34):
for a job or just to dosomething part-time, they're not
going to have that bond andthat trust and that desire to do
the best for someone that youlove and care about.
Shay (13:46):
That's true.
I don't know why my mind keepsgoing to the negative today in
this conversation.
But then there's also thosefamily members that we can't
trust.
Right, it's like I wouldn'ttrust to leave my dog with you,
even leave my parents with you.
So you know, there's that too,and I mean, and obviously those
you know, our parents are olderpeople, us, we know who we can
(14:08):
trust and the relationships arereally take care of us.
It's like I see how you keepyour house, I see how you don't
do this.
I see how you keep your house.
I see how you don't do this.
I see how you don't do this.
I don't want you, and I thinkthat's why my mom and dad would
be like we see, you know Shayversus I ain't calling out no
siblings name.
Luckily I got multiple.
But they know who they are.
Like parents are like I don'twant to be living with them.
(14:28):
You see what I'm like.
Oh God you know, that kind ofsituation.
Vanessa (14:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's pros and cons to all of
this, yeah, and then you thinkabout physical safety and
emotional safety, and there is alot of elder abuse out there.
Shay (14:45):
A lot of elder abuse.
It's so sad and I know peopleget impatient.
It's like abusing a kid,because you know you know
they're reverting, they'regetting more childlike as they
get older and their patience lowon your working.
But yeah, yeah.
Vanessa (14:57):
And it gets to the point, too, where you know
elderly people either can'tcommunicate that with their
loved ones or they're afraid to,because they're going to be
with that person when theirfamily leaves.
Shay (15:10):
So, it's.
Vanessa (15:11):
it's this horrible situation where you want to tell
somebody, you want to saysomething because it is not an
OK environment for someone to bein, but you're so afraid to do
so.
But if you're with your familythat you trust from the get go
most of the time I won't say allthe time, but most of the time
you don't even have to worryabout that from the beginning.
Shay (15:31):
Yeah, I couldn't imagine and build views in my family or
not even yelling, because I wasjust raised in a place you don't
raise your voice to yourparents.
You like, you respect and a lotof it comes from how you
respect your elders.
Like you know, I noticed thisyoung, younger generations, like
even millennials, generation Z,alpha, all of them.
They don't have respect likethey used to.
(15:52):
Like we were, that wasingrained in us.
Like my grandmother, we werearound her, my grandfather or
any aunts or uncles.
We were on our best behaviors.
Now we act like butt wipes whenwe were at home, but we're
around the older people you actright like and so that has
transcribed to as older 45.
Now, like I am totally like.
(16:13):
They ain't no cussing, theyain't no yelling and you don't
do nothing around it by yourelders.
Like you are like, seriously,your oil point you're like
you're the military bestbehavior, exactly.
But these young kids, they justact a hot mess.
So I can only imagine themtrying to take care of their
elders and just just outrightbad behaviors.
Vanessa (16:34):
Yeah yeah, yeah, well, and you know and there's other
parts to this too If you have aparent who has been sick for a
while or not, if you've beenthere and they've had these
conversations with you along theway, you know their history and
you can have a conversationwith the doctor and say, well,
three years ago this happened.
I know they're on thesemedications.
(16:55):
There was a reaction to XYZwhen they took it.
So you can really be anadvocate for their health.
And that is that is so powerfulto have someone that's going to
fight for you when you don'thave the fight left in you.
And it's a beautiful thing whenyou can do that for someone,
(17:16):
but at the same time, it doestake a lot of time to do that.
You know, I know my mom she was.
She was sick for 16 years, sothere were so many hospital
visits and surgeries and youknow medications and trials that
she would be a part of and allthese things.
And there were just a couple ofus who kind of knew, okay, well
(17:36):
, she's taking this, she'staking that.
She goes to dialysis threetimes a week.
You know this is the reactionshe has to this.
She can only have this muchliquid before she gets puffy,
like all those things that youjust know when you're spending
time with someone and you reallylove them and get to know them.
My dad had panic attacks andanxiety so I knew when he needed
(17:59):
to eat before he'd get shaky.
You knew what environments wereokay for him to be in so he
felt comfortable, and people whoare not around them and spent
time growing up with them aren'tgoing to know that.
Shay (18:12):
Yeah, that's good.
Well, first of all I want tothank you for being that
caregiver for your parents.
So I honor you in this momentbecause that is not an easy job,
and so God is definitely proudof you as his child for doing
that.
And I can't imagine doing it.
I mean I'm kind of in thecaretaking mode with helping my
husband as much as a little bit.
(18:33):
I mean, he's nowhere near that,you know, but that's why I try
to maintain a clean house andcook and all that because he's
going through his stuff.
But I can't imagine the fulltime or even three quarters of
the time.
Having to take care of a familymember is a lot.
And then you know, and thenthat moves greatly into or
smoothly over to our children'spoint of view, right, like the
(18:55):
financial burden.
I mean it's a lot.
I'm just going to list them andthen we can talk about them.
But the financial burden, youknow the work care demands, just
the distance of having yourfamily member.
You know if you're living outof state and different your own
personal life responsibilitiesthat go with it, and then
obviously the tension and stressthat it can create in a
(19:17):
household.
So there's a lot that goes intothat and I think the biggest
thing that always comes I meanus being counselors is the
financial burden.
It's expensive and it gets evenmore expensive when you talk
about long-term care and seniorcenters or care and nursing
homes, and the list goes on.
Yeah, how did you deal with thefinancial burden?
Vanessa (19:39):
So there's a lot that goes into that, I think, with a
financial burden, and a lot ofit could just be you and your
household and missing work andnot taking promotions or all
these things, and I guess thatgoes into you know to work
career demands too, or all thesethings, and I guess that goes
into you know, to work careerdemands too.
(20:04):
But I was lucky enough that myparents had saved well, um, but
there were also times wheremedications were so expensive
and not carried or covered byinsurance that my parents really
struggled.
I mean, there were months I paidfor, you know for for light
bills, because I knew theywouldn't get paid otherwise and
my parents never knew that itwould just automatically get
paid.
So it was a financial strugglesometimes when you're trying to
run your household and then allof a sudden there are these
(20:27):
needs that you weren'tanticipating.
Because I think we all expect,for the most part, our parents
to be prepared for these things,because we're always told to be
prepared and we know there aresome parents who just don't
their entire lives and sometimesthings happen as well that just
don't let them be where theywant to be.
(20:49):
But financially, let's say youlive somewhere else and you're
having to fly back and forth.
I mean, there's a lot of moneywith, you know, planes and
renting cars and if you have toget hotel rooms and there's a
lot of stuff that you don'tthink about financially, that
you have to do.
Shay (21:06):
You really do and it's got to be a burden on, you know,
and hard on the children or thecaregivers when they're out of
state.
Like you said, because I knowwe moved back to Maryland
because we just when my husbandwas being retired from the
military, it was just.
It was a better setup.
You know, family was here tohelp support with our child
financially, just make moremoney up here in this region.
You know there was a lot ofdifferent opportunities.
(21:28):
But I always used to sayespecially his mother being
single like we need to be inMaryland.
And then my parents are gettingolder.
You know my dad stayed inMaryland because his parents are
getting older, so that doeshelp.
But sometimes life doesn't workout that way.
Sometimes you're in California,your parents are in
Massachusetts or Florida youknow, and so that can add a
(21:49):
definitely a financial burden toit.
And then I have to say it's justlike you're raising your own.
My brother and sister and Italk about this a lot.
We're still in that.
I mean I'm kind of on theoutside of that phase because my
daughter is older, shegraduated college.
I mean she's still living withus, but my siblings still have
young kids that they have totake care of and they're still
(22:09):
growing and, you know, goingthrough life and they're still
on this early journey ofparenthood and finding
themselves, and so our parentsare older and so you know that
will definitely be a burden onthem because they're like I
still got kids at home that Ineed to take care of.
So and you add the elderlyfamily members into the picture
and that's a lot, it's a big,huge burden.
Vanessa (22:31):
And then you look at that financially and that
financial piece.
It actually kind of flows overinto all these other fields,
like the work, career,geographical distance, your
personal life andresponsibilities.
Money plays a part in all thosethings.
All those things when we thinkabout it.
Shay (22:49):
So let's talk about compromising because, you know,
this, for me, has been feeling alittle I don't know.
I don't even know the feeling,it just feels heavy.
This is a heavy topic, but it'salso been feeling a little.
Yeah, just heavy is the rightword.
So let's talk aboutcompromising.
Vanessa (23:07):
So I think one of the biggest things we can do is have
those conversations.
Number one have them with yourparents, don't have them without
your parents.
It really helps them feel likethey're in control, helps them
feel valued and it ensures thatwhat they really want can be
decided about or talked aboutand their wishes are met.
(23:30):
You know, this is somethingthat I got caught up in
unintentionally one time andreally hurt my grandparents'
feelings.
We had had a conversation, mydad and I, about a senior care
facility that was near us and wewere like, well, we don't even
know how much it's going to cost, because we're talking about my
dad later on, because he hadcancer, and I was like, you know
(23:52):
, this could be a great optionfor you, um, for my dad that you
could kind of come and go,cause it was very close to his
house, so when he didn't feelgood he could go up there and
stay in his little efficiencyapartment.
If he felt okay, he'd go homeand stay at his house.
So he wanted me to get somemore information.
So I called you know, talk tosomebody about this.
(24:13):
And they ended up thinking itwas my grandparents and sent
brochures to my grandparents.
My grandmother was horrifiedbecause she thought we were
trying to get rid of her.
So having to explain thesethings or have these
conversations without parentsand then backtracking, not a
(24:34):
good thing.
Shay (24:35):
Yeah.
Vanessa (24:35):
Involve them.
Have these conversations.
If they won't talk to you, sayokay, well, we're going to have
to do it without you, but behonest.
Shay (24:45):
Be honest, yeah, and I would add open communication
with your siblings as well andother people that are involved
in that process.
Because talking to your parentsabout their needs and concerns,
as I mentioned earlier, earlyon I've done that, but we
started having conversationswith my two siblings and my
parents.
So, like, what is your needs,what are your concerns, what is
you want to?
What does this look like asyou're aging, you know, and
(25:07):
stuff, and we still got a longways to go because people are
scared to answer those toughquestions.
But at least open it up to havethose communications.
Vanessa (25:16):
Exactly, and all you can do is bring these things to
other people's attention.
You know, this is somethingthat I do with cousins of mine
for different things, and it'slike this is happening.
You need to be aware, and Ithink a lot of people,
especially early stages, they'relike, oh, they've always been
that way or oh, you know, thathappens when you get older and
(25:36):
they kind of brush things off.
Shay (25:37):
Yeah.
Vanessa (25:38):
And that's hard to see.
When you see something that istruly not okay in someone and
you're concerned and someoneelse brushes it off, what do you
do when you're not the primarycaregiver for that person or you
won't be.
So, really, you have to be ableto say, okay, I've done my job,
I've had this conversation,I've told them what I see.
(25:59):
And then you have to be able tolet it go.
Shay (26:01):
Exactly that's so important.
And then also assessing theneeds and creating a care plan.
I mean, I know I used to dothis a lot with the military
when if something happened toespecially if it was dual
military you know you had thecreative readiness plan, a care
plan, especially when they havekids, and I think we could do
the same we know we don't thinkwe can and we should do the same
with our family members,figuring out what they need,
(26:23):
make a plan outlining eachperson's responsibilities, you
know and this goes all the wayto estate planning, but the
living plan like what does thatlook like?
While you're going through andthere might be illnesses or
stuff that's going on that youknow you might need someone's
help like having thatconversation and making those
plans is very important.
Vanessa (26:42):
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
And we did this too.
You know, my mom was diagnosedyears before my dad.
My dad got cancer when my momwas kind of in her last couple
of years of life.
But we had to have that openconversation of, okay, we've
planned for dad to be alone,even though he didn't like any
of our plans, but we had neverplanned on mom being alone, so
(27:04):
we had to have that conversation.
If she lived longer than my dad, what would that look like?
And my mom was very big on.
You know, you have a life tolive, you have things to do.
She was like I want to go to asenior living facility, I want
to have friends, I want to go toevents, I want to play bingo.
You know she wanted those thingsand those, those social aspects
(27:28):
that she would not have gottenin my home.
And you know she was like if Ineed to move somewhere to be
closer to my kids, that's fine,they don't need to move from me.
So if you can see the needs ofothers when you're planning, um,
really take a look at that, seewhere your kids are.
Like you were saying earlier,uh, because we're all in
different places in our livesand it's hard for a kid to pick
(27:50):
up and move to you if they havekids in school and a really good
job and a house payment.
So have those conversations,talk about what that plan looks
like and, if that plan changes,have a plan B, a plan C.
I know we had that with my momand just knowing that she was
okay with making a decision thatwe didn't take care of her full
(28:12):
time took so much burden off myshoulders, so much burden so.
So those are things we can havethose conversations with, and
then we can also talk abouthiring professional caregivers
if if you have the money forthat, the good thing is is there
is, there's programs,especially if you know your
grandparent, parent, whoeverthis is for, was military, you
(28:35):
know they'll help you pay forsomeone to come in three days a
week and help them clean orbathe or do laundry, and that
can really be a blessing to afamily.
Shay (28:45):
Really be a blessing.
And then you know I say whatgoes from hiring professional
caregivers is setting boundariesto prevent caregiver burnout,
which that professionalcaregiver can help with.
Right, If you have the time andthe money to get the
professional caregiver that canhelp with that.
But also, just you know, theemotional support.
I mean you know we can put alot of time, money and emotional
(29:07):
support into taking care offamily members and that can
definitely lead to burnout.
Vanessa (29:11):
At one point in time I had a mom with cancer and a
spouse with cancer and I was thesole provider in my household.
Yet I had to take care of thespouse when I got home from work
every day, and then my mom anddad would come every weekend so
they could do treatments inAtlanta, and it was a lot.
Yeah, it was a lot, and I lostmyself in that and I didn't know
(29:34):
who I was.
I didn't know what to do or howto be, and I got to this point
where I had to say no tosomething, and I knew that, or I
don't know what would happen tome.
So you can find communitiesthat can help with that and I
would say, always ask thecaregiver how they're doing,
(29:55):
because nobody worries aboutthat person and usually that
person has the most stress onthem.
So, you know, reach out toother people that are going
through the same thing as youhave the conversations about
that and be open and honest, andthose boundaries are going to
oh, they're going to bewonderful one day, cause I was
able to do that with my fatherand just say that's a no and
(30:19):
walk away, and I would know he'dbe mad for a little bit.
He would always come back to meExactly yeah.
So there's all that.
And then you can always developa financial plan.
How are we going to pay forthis?
You know?
Do we need to modify the home?
Do we need to worry abouttravel back and forth?
There's all these things thatyou can talk about before it
(30:42):
becomes an issue, not in thatplace where how are we going to
pay for this?
Or you know he wanted to gohere.
We can't afford it.
We can only afford plan B or C.
Shay (30:54):
So if you know that ahead of time.
Vanessa (30:57):
wonderful, Absolutely wonderful.
Shay (31:00):
Wow, that was fabulous.
I mean a lot of great adviceand definitely learning to or
compromising with your elderlyfamily members.
And I would wrap it withProverbs 23, 22, which says
listen to your father, who gaveyou a life, and do not despise
your mother when she is old.
For me, I laugh becausesometimes we get to the point
(31:22):
where we're despising my motherand she's growing older and we
love her and we don't want tolisten to her father, but you
know he gives great advice.
So any final thoughts, vanessa?
Vanessa (31:32):
I would just say practice patience with all of us
Like you're saying practice,patience.
Know that it's going to happento all of us, and remember what
you want done for yourself oneday and make sure you plan it,
even if your parents didn't.
Shay (31:46):
There is a blessing in getting older right, and so try
to find the joy in it and beingthere for the you know, your
elderly family member at thatlast part of their life and
their journey, because you know,once they leave, that's it, and
so trying to find that timewith them is important too, but
definitely practice patience.
So thank you for joining ustoday have a wonderful day.
(32:06):
So thank you for joining ustoday.
Have a wonderful day.
A big thank you for listeningto this episode.
We hope you found today's chatabout the intersection of
religion and money insightful.
We would love to hear yourfeedback.
Vanessa (32:19):
Hit that subscribe button or follow the podcast,
and please feel free to leave usa review yes, and for the
latest Yahweh's Money content,visit us at crusaders4change.
org or find us anywhere youlisten to podcasts.
Until next time, stayfinancially fit and spiritually
inspired.
Shay (32:38):
And remember it's always better Yahweh's way.
Ever felt those awkward vibes when religion and money
come up?
You're not alone.
Welcome to Yahweh's Money, thepodcast where we tackle the
crossroads of faith and finance.
I'm Shay Cook, an AccreditedFinancial Counselor, and the CEO
and founder of Crusaders forChange LLC.
Vanessa (00:19):
And I'm Vanessa McNelley, Accredited Financial
Counselor and COO of Crusadersfor Change.
Join us on our journey as wediscuss topics like tithing
saving and conquering debtthrough religious perspectives.
Let's get started!
Shay (00:35):
Welcome back to another episode of Yahweh's Money.
What's up, Vanessa?
Vanessa (00:41):
Nothing much.
I'm ready for the seriousconversation.
Shay (00:44):
Oh my God, we're always talking about serious stuff.
I mean, that's what happenswhen you talk about religion and
money, right?
So today, Vanessa and I will betaking on a subject that most
of us tiptoe around because ofthe stigma related to it.
Those of us who are stillfortunate enough to have our
parents around want the verybest for them.
(01:04):
That goes without saying.
Right, but is it fair for oursenior parents to count on us
for care as they age?
Nearly 70% of caregivers in theUS are family members, and not
all of them choose to be.
We'll explore the blend of love, duty and, oftentimes,
obligations, seen by bothparents and their children when
(01:27):
it comes to caregiving.
I'm going to stop there,Vanessa.
Wow, like 70%.
Yeah, I mean, that's a lot, wow.
I mean, I'm happy to hear thatpeople are taking care of their
family members, though I agree.
So you know.
But when you see all of these,you know the long-term care, all
these things coming up or, Iguess, senior centers and all
(01:48):
that.
I thought there was more peoplein there, but it sounds like
family members are taking careof themselves of their families.
Yeah, or their older parents.
Vanessa (01:57):
Yeah, it's a lot, but I guess we have to see at what
cost too.
That's true.
Shay (02:01):
That's true, well well, in 1 Timothy 5, 4 states.
But if a widow has children orgrandchildren, they should learn
first of all to put thereligion into practice by caring
for their own family and sorepaying their parents and
grandparents, for this ispleasing to God.
This passage specificallymentions the responsibility of
(02:25):
children and grandchildren tocare for their elderly relatives
, reflecting both familial dutyand religious values.
Yeah, I mean, that's ourresponsibility, huge though it's
big, it's a big responsibility.
Vanessa (02:42):
I guess we have to think too, like how much of that
responsibility is ours too.
Is it?
Everything, is it small parts ofit?
And there's different ways tolook at this too, and then we
can look at it from, you know,the child's point or the
parent's point.
So if we look at things firstfrom the parent's point of view,
you know the parent has alwaysgiven their child unconditional
(03:04):
love.
There's been that bond there,and they know how to manipulate
situations too in some ways sothat they can make a child feel
like I've always been there foryou.
I've always done things for you.
You owe this to me.
Shay (03:22):
Yeah.
Vanessa (03:23):
I don't know how you feel about that.
I had two parents that passed inthe last few years.
As you know, my mother was verygood about saying live your
life, do you?
You can't sit around and youcan't wait for me to die or
something to happen to me.
And then I had a dad who waslike you need to move home, you
(03:44):
need to come take care of me,you need to to sell everything
and live in my house and youknow, basically, be my keeper is
what he wanted, and he reallyknew how to push buttons and
make me feel so bad about notbeing there for him and you
think about, okay, well, theseare the people who put a roof
(04:06):
over your head and they, youknow, taught you how to ride a
bike and they made sure that youknow you were loved and cared
for your entire life and, youknow, talked you through a lot
of situations.
So you know, they do have that,that thought, and I think they
they have a point with that too.
Shay (04:26):
They do.
I mean, we both have parentsthat cared and loved for, loved
us and stuff.
But then on the flip side thereare some people that have
parents that don't do all ofthat.
They don't love themunconditionally and they still
expect their kids to take careof them.
So, I want to honor that too.
It's not not everybodylistening and not everyone in
the world has that unconditionallove and I also think, even
though I have that, I've seen,like you said, that manipulation
(04:49):
, that boundaries being crossedor disrespected or not honored,
aggressively manipulating, youknow just different things.
They're using thatunconditional love, abusing it.
I guess I should say so yeah andthat's probably more on the
children's argument or point ofview side.
But when it comes to theparents, I mean I guess I would
(05:11):
feel that way, coming methinking about my daughter.
Honestly I don't want to burdenher, but you know, I know some
people that do feel that way.
Vanessa (05:18):
Yeah, yeah, I had my grandmother.
She talked to all of herchildren and all of her
grandchildren and she made eachone of us promise that we would
never put her in a nursing homeand we would take care of her in
her own home.
Wow, and that was a big promiseto ask from a teenage girl.
Yes, and sometimes that's anunfair thing to ask, but I
(05:42):
understood her reasoning forthat, because she'd had sisters
that had gone to nursing homesand were not cared for properly.
So she just wanted to make surethat never happened to her
because she had Alzheimer's.
So, you know, she wouldn't bein a situation where she could
let someone know either if thathappened.
So I mean, that's a true pointof that too.
You know, and then we can lookat.
(06:04):
You know, family or cultural,like cultural traditions.
I know in Indonesia theyoungest child is expected to
take care of the parents whenthey're older, and that is a
huge burden or blessing.
However you look, at that.
On a child that, especially, isyounger and hasn't had time to
start a career or a family orkind of keep things going.
(06:28):
But there's that expectationthat this is what we do.
We take care of our own, wetook care of you, we took care
of our parents, so it's yourturn to take care of us, and
different cultures havedifferent ways of doing that.
But it is a beautiful thingwhen you look at this community
(06:48):
that can be built to take careof our elderly, and it's a
community that we know will love, support, come together, work
together as a team to take careof somebody as they're aging.
Shay (07:01):
I love the village concept .
I don't like when it's just theone person the old, younger kid
, the oldest kid, especially.
You got multiple siblings orother family members aunts,
uncles it usually ends up beingon the most responsible one, who
is the person that's takingcare of their family.
They're the most responsible atwork we kind of talked about it
(07:22):
in the last episode.
This person is doing all themost and then they end up having
that responsibility of theelderly and it's not fair.
It's just like what about yousibling ABCD?
Vanessa (07:32):
and aunt uncle and you know just that's not fair.
Shay (07:35):
It's not fair.
Vanessa (07:36):
But when it works and you have a village, it's a
beautiful thing I have some.
Puerto Rican friends and theyhave a mom and a dad that are
older and mom and dad are stillmarried but don't get along.
But what they do is they rotateand the parents stay with, you
know, child A a month, then theygo spend a month with child B,
(07:59):
then they go to child C and thenchild D, so they get three
months with each of theirchildren a year.
They get time with theirgrandchildren and their great
grandchildren and they rotateand then the children know I
will have mom or dad this monthand they they stay separately
too.
So you only have one parent totake care of at a time.
Shay (08:21):
Yeah, that works out for the marriage too, right, love it
.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, andit's like they only have one
parent At a time.
Vanessa (08:25):
Yeah, that works out for the mayors too.
Right, they love it.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yeah, andit's like they only have one
parent at a time.
The grandchildren help as well,and it's just this beautiful
community that's been built andyou know when you're going to be
busier because you'll have yourparent there.
You know when you'll have moretime for vacations or whatever.
But it's so nice to see when afamily can come together like
(08:46):
that and really build this bond,and it's a beautiful, beautiful
thing.
Shay (08:52):
I love that.
That is beautiful yeah.
Vanessa (08:54):
You know, and sometimes it's all because there's a lack
of options.
That's another big thing.
Parents don't save, there's noretirement, there's no plan.
Big thing Parents don't save,there's no retirement, there's
no plan.
I know, I've experienced this alot.
My dad was kind of that way.
He had savings and he had a wayto pay for it, but he refused
(09:15):
to create a plan.
And that was something I'm very, very big on is let's have this
conversation, let's decidewhat's important, what's not
important, what will work foryou, what'll work for us, that
kind of thing.
But he didn't want to have thattalk and it was always like,
well, I'll just have somebodycome live in my house and
they'll live for free andthey'll be happy.
(09:36):
And it's like well, dude,nobody's going to want to live
in your house for free and bestuck I'm going to use that word
, stuck with you 24 seven.
They have their own lives.
They may have jobs, they maywant to go on vacation, they
might want to go visit theirgrandkids.
So the lack of a game plansometimes put to you in a
situation where you have to.
(09:58):
There's no other choice becausethere are wait lists for a lot
of places to put parents andgrandparents when you need that
and if you wait too long, you'rein this place where I don't
have any choices, I don't haveoptions, I don't know what to do
.
Shay (10:13):
I know and that's so sad because yeah, and it's so
expensive, right, getting inthose kind of facilities and
stuff.
So yeah, I know it's hard andpeople don't want to talk about.
You know getting old and deathand you know like which comes
around with insurance, estateplanning, we got into that kind
of thing.
But especially when you'relet's talk about why you're in
(10:34):
good health I think who was it?
One of my friends or mentorssaid to me the biggest advice I
got about aging parents is havethose conversations with your
parents.
And it might have been you,vanessa.
Have those conversations withyour parents while they're still
in their right mind, while onthe younger side, you know so,
maybe even still working, sothey can still plan and get that
(10:56):
in order and say I know youdon't want to and I actually,
about 10, 15 years ago, I satdown I'll never forget sitting
down at my parents' house andtheir dining table, dining room
table, and saying we need totalk about what it looks like
when you get older, what itlooks like when you pass.
We need to have theconversation, because my mom
always was like I'm going togive you this lodge roll, these
things, these statues she got inGermany.
(11:17):
I was like this is bigger thana lodge roll.
We need to have a conversationabout this house.
Where do you want to be buried?
But before you die, let's havea conversation about what do you
want to do if you get sick,what happens if my dad passes?
He takes care of my mother.
That is huge, like my family,that is a huge conversation that
we're still not settled on.
(11:38):
She's like oh well, we've had aconversation with your uncle,
who's a retired judge.
I'm like okay, but where's thepaperwork?
What does that look like whatif my dad passes before you?
Who's going to take care of you?
And my family always wants tojoke and say, oh, it's going to
be you, shay.
No, we need to have aconversation because I'm still
living my life, I'm still doingit and of course I'm going to
take care of my mother or myfather if they need to.
(11:59):
But it needs to be aconversation early on and I
think a lot of people don't havethat conversation.
They're so scared of theinevitable.
Vanessa (12:08):
I know, and it's so important, it's so so important
to be open and honest and talkabout those things.
And you know it's hard, like yousaid, but it gets easier.
And the reality of it is iswhat happens during that time.
I mean, it's huge.
It's like do you want to havetime with your children, where
(12:28):
it's them taking care of you andgiving you showers and changing
your sheets, or do you wantquality time with your children
when they're visiting, so youget to spend time with them and
reminisce and talk and do allthese things?
But sometimes, because there isno planning, you're put in this
position like, okay, I thoughtmom and dad had a plan, I
(12:52):
thought everything was good togo, but reality is there's
nothing put in place.
And you know, I just wentthrough this with my dad who had
, you know, promised there was awill, because I'm very big on
having your estate in order aswell and then he passed and
there was nothing.
So do this, have theseconversations, talk to your kids
, tell them why you're doingwhat you're doing and get that
(13:12):
final say with what you want to,but do it in a way that makes
sense for everybody.
So you know, and then you havethis thing where parents are
like, well, I want this becauseI trust you and I you know, I'm
familiar with you and we knoweach other and I know that you
will have my best interest atheart.
And that makes a lot of sensebecause somebody that's there
(13:34):
for a job or just to dosomething part-time, they're not
going to have that bond andthat trust and that desire to do
the best for someone that youlove and care about.
Shay (13:46):
That's true.
I don't know why my mind keepsgoing to the negative today in
this conversation.
But then there's also thosefamily members that we can't
trust.
Right, it's like I wouldn'ttrust to leave my dog with you,
even leave my parents with you.
So you know, there's that too,and I mean, and obviously those
you know, our parents are olderpeople, us, we know who we can
(14:08):
trust and the relationships arereally take care of us.
It's like I see how you keepyour house, I see how you don't
do this.
I see how you keep your house.
I see how you don't do this.
I see how you don't do this.
I don't want you, and I thinkthat's why my mom and dad would
be like we see, you know Shayversus I ain't calling out no
siblings name.
Luckily I got multiple.
But they know who they are.
Like parents are like I don'twant to be living with them.
(14:28):
You see what I'm like.
Oh God you know, that kind ofsituation.
Vanessa (14:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean there's pros and cons to all of
this, yeah, and then you thinkabout physical safety and
emotional safety, and there is alot of elder abuse out there.
Shay (14:45):
A lot of elder abuse.
It's so sad and I know peopleget impatient.
It's like abusing a kid,because you know you know
they're reverting, they'regetting more childlike as they
get older and their patience lowon your working.
But yeah, yeah.
Vanessa (14:57):
And it gets to the point, too, where you know
elderly people either can'tcommunicate that with their
loved ones or they're afraid to,because they're going to be
with that person when theirfamily leaves.
Shay (15:10):
So, it's.
Vanessa (15:11):
it's this horrible situation where you want to tell
somebody, you want to saysomething because it is not an
OK environment for someone to bein, but you're so afraid to do
so.
But if you're with your familythat you trust from the get go
most of the time I won't say allthe time, but most of the time
you don't even have to worryabout that from the beginning.
Shay (15:31):
Yeah, I couldn't imagine and build views in my family or
not even yelling, because I wasjust raised in a place you don't
raise your voice to yourparents.
You like, you respect and a lotof it comes from how you
respect your elders.
Like you know, I noticed thisyoung, younger generations, like
even millennials, generation Z,alpha, all of them.
They don't have respect likethey used to.
(15:52):
Like we were, that wasingrained in us.
Like my grandmother, we werearound her, my grandfather or
any aunts or uncles.
We were on our best behaviors.
Now we act like butt wipes whenwe were at home, but we're
around the older people you actright like and so that has
transcribed to as older 45.
Now, like I am totally like.
(16:13):
They ain't no cussing, theyain't no yelling and you don't
do nothing around it by yourelders.
Like you are like, seriously,your oil point you're like
you're the military bestbehavior, exactly.
But these young kids, they justact a hot mess.
So I can only imagine themtrying to take care of their
elders and just just outrightbad behaviors.
Vanessa (16:34):
Yeah yeah, yeah, well, and you know and there's other
parts to this too If you have aparent who has been sick for a
while or not, if you've beenthere and they've had these
conversations with you along theway, you know their history and
you can have a conversationwith the doctor and say, well,
three years ago this happened.
I know they're on thesemedications.
(16:55):
There was a reaction to XYZwhen they took it.
So you can really be anadvocate for their health.
And that is that is so powerfulto have someone that's going to
fight for you when you don'thave the fight left in you.
And it's a beautiful thing whenyou can do that for someone,
(17:16):
but at the same time, it doestake a lot of time to do that.
You know, I know my mom she was.
She was sick for 16 years, sothere were so many hospital
visits and surgeries and youknow medications and trials that
she would be a part of and allthese things.
And there were just a couple ofus who kind of knew, okay, well
(17:36):
, she's taking this, she'staking that.
She goes to dialysis threetimes a week.
You know this is the reactionshe has to this.
She can only have this muchliquid before she gets puffy,
like all those things that youjust know when you're spending
time with someone and you reallylove them and get to know them.
My dad had panic attacks andanxiety so I knew when he needed
(17:59):
to eat before he'd get shaky.
You knew what environments wereokay for him to be in so he
felt comfortable, and people whoare not around them and spent
time growing up with them aren'tgoing to know that.
Shay (18:12):
Yeah, that's good.
Well, first of all I want tothank you for being that
caregiver for your parents.
So I honor you in this momentbecause that is not an easy job,
and so God is definitely proudof you as his child for doing
that.
And I can't imagine doing it.
I mean I'm kind of in thecaretaking mode with helping my
husband as much as a little bit.
(18:33):
I mean, he's nowhere near that,you know, but that's why I try
to maintain a clean house andcook and all that because he's
going through his stuff.
But I can't imagine the fulltime or even three quarters of
the time.
Having to take care of a familymember is a lot.
And then you know, and thenthat moves greatly into or
smoothly over to our children'spoint of view, right, like the
(18:55):
financial burden.
I mean it's a lot.
I'm just going to list them andthen we can talk about them.
But the financial burden, youknow the work care demands, just
the distance of having yourfamily member.
You know if you're living outof state and different your own
personal life responsibilitiesthat go with it, and then
obviously the tension and stressthat it can create in a
(19:17):
household.
So there's a lot that goes intothat and I think the biggest
thing that always comes I meanus being counselors is the
financial burden.
It's expensive and it gets evenmore expensive when you talk
about long-term care and seniorcenters or care and nursing
homes, and the list goes on.
Yeah, how did you deal with thefinancial burden?
Vanessa (19:39):
So there's a lot that goes into that, I think, with a
financial burden, and a lot ofit could just be you and your
household and missing work andnot taking promotions or all
these things, and I guess thatgoes into you know to work
career demands too, or all thesethings, and I guess that goes
into you know, to work careerdemands too.
(20:04):
But I was lucky enough that myparents had saved well, um, but
there were also times wheremedications were so expensive
and not carried or covered byinsurance that my parents really
struggled.
I mean, there were months I paidfor, you know for for light
bills, because I knew theywouldn't get paid otherwise and
my parents never knew that itwould just automatically get
paid.
So it was a financial strugglesometimes when you're trying to
run your household and then allof a sudden there are these
(20:27):
needs that you weren'tanticipating.
Because I think we all expect,for the most part, our parents
to be prepared for these things,because we're always told to be
prepared and we know there aresome parents who just don't
their entire lives and sometimesthings happen as well that just
don't let them be where theywant to be.
(20:49):
But financially, let's say youlive somewhere else and you're
having to fly back and forth.
I mean, there's a lot of moneywith, you know, planes and
renting cars and if you have toget hotel rooms and there's a
lot of stuff that you don'tthink about financially, that
you have to do.
Shay (21:06):
You really do and it's got to be a burden on, you know,
and hard on the children or thecaregivers when they're out of
state.
Like you said, because I knowwe moved back to Maryland
because we just when my husbandwas being retired from the
military, it was just.
It was a better setup.
You know, family was here tohelp support with our child
financially, just make moremoney up here in this region.
You know there was a lot ofdifferent opportunities.
(21:28):
But I always used to sayespecially his mother being
single like we need to be inMaryland.
And then my parents are gettingolder.
You know my dad stayed inMaryland because his parents are
getting older, so that doeshelp.
But sometimes life doesn't workout that way.
Sometimes you're in California,your parents are in
Massachusetts or Florida youknow, and so that can add a
(21:49):
definitely a financial burden toit.
And then I have to say it's justlike you're raising your own.
My brother and sister and Italk about this a lot.
We're still in that.
I mean I'm kind of on theoutside of that phase because my
daughter is older, shegraduated college.
I mean she's still living withus, but my siblings still have
young kids that they have totake care of and they're still
(22:09):
growing and, you know, goingthrough life and they're still
on this early journey ofparenthood and finding
themselves, and so our parentsare older and so you know that
will definitely be a burden onthem because they're like I
still got kids at home that Ineed to take care of.
So and you add the elderlyfamily members into the picture
and that's a lot, it's a big,huge burden.
Vanessa (22:31):
And then you look at that financially and that
financial piece.
It actually kind of flows overinto all these other fields,
like the work, career,geographical distance, your
personal life andresponsibilities.
Money plays a part in all thosethings.
All those things when we thinkabout it.
Shay (22:49):
So let's talk about compromising because, you know,
this, for me, has been feeling alittle I don't know.
I don't even know the feeling,it just feels heavy.
This is a heavy topic, but it'salso been feeling a little.
Yeah, just heavy is the rightword.
So let's talk aboutcompromising.
Vanessa (23:07):
So I think one of the biggest things we can do is have
those conversations.
Number one have them with yourparents, don't have them without
your parents.
It really helps them feel likethey're in control, helps them
feel valued and it ensures thatwhat they really want can be
decided about or talked aboutand their wishes are met.
(23:30):
You know, this is somethingthat I got caught up in
unintentionally one time andreally hurt my grandparents'
feelings.
We had had a conversation, mydad and I, about a senior care
facility that was near us and wewere like, well, we don't even
know how much it's going to cost, because we're talking about my
dad later on, because he hadcancer, and I was like, you know
(23:52):
, this could be a great optionfor you, um, for my dad that you
could kind of come and go,cause it was very close to his
house, so when he didn't feelgood he could go up there and
stay in his little efficiencyapartment.
If he felt okay, he'd go homeand stay at his house.
So he wanted me to get somemore information.
So I called you know, talk tosomebody about this.
(24:13):
And they ended up thinking itwas my grandparents and sent
brochures to my grandparents.
My grandmother was horrifiedbecause she thought we were
trying to get rid of her.
So having to explain thesethings or have these
conversations without parentsand then backtracking, not a
(24:34):
good thing.
Shay (24:35):
Yeah.
Vanessa (24:35):
Involve them.
Have these conversations.
If they won't talk to you, sayokay, well, we're going to have
to do it without you, but behonest.
Shay (24:45):
Be honest, yeah, and I would add open communication
with your siblings as well andother people that are involved
in that process.
Because talking to your parentsabout their needs and concerns,
as I mentioned earlier, earlyon I've done that, but we
started having conversationswith my two siblings and my
parents.
So, like, what is your needs,what are your concerns, what is
you want to?
What does this look like asyou're aging, you know, and
(25:07):
stuff, and we still got a longways to go because people are
scared to answer those toughquestions.
But at least open it up to havethose communications.
Vanessa (25:16):
Exactly, and all you can do is bring these things to
other people's attention.
You know, this is somethingthat I do with cousins of mine
for different things, and it'slike this is happening.
You need to be aware, and Ithink a lot of people,
especially early stages, they'relike, oh, they've always been
that way or oh, you know, thathappens when you get older and
(25:36):
they kind of brush things off.
Shay (25:37):
Yeah.
Vanessa (25:38):
And that's hard to see.
When you see something that istruly not okay in someone and
you're concerned and someoneelse brushes it off, what do you
do when you're not the primarycaregiver for that person or you
won't be.
So, really, you have to be ableto say, okay, I've done my job,
I've had this conversation,I've told them what I see.
(25:59):
And then you have to be able tolet it go.
Shay (26:01):
Exactly that's so important.
And then also assessing theneeds and creating a care plan.
I mean, I know I used to dothis a lot with the military
when if something happened toespecially if it was dual
military you know you had thecreative readiness plan, a care
plan, especially when they havekids, and I think we could do
the same we know we don't thinkwe can and we should do the same
with our family members,figuring out what they need,
(26:23):
make a plan outlining eachperson's responsibilities, you
know and this goes all the wayto estate planning, but the
living plan like what does thatlook like?
While you're going through andthere might be illnesses or
stuff that's going on that youknow you might need someone's
help like having thatconversation and making those
plans is very important.
Vanessa (26:42):
Exactly, exactly, exactly.
And we did this too.
You know, my mom was diagnosedyears before my dad.
My dad got cancer when my momwas kind of in her last couple
of years of life.
But we had to have that openconversation of, okay, we've
planned for dad to be alone,even though he didn't like any
of our plans, but we had neverplanned on mom being alone, so
(27:04):
we had to have that conversation.
If she lived longer than my dad, what would that look like?
And my mom was very big on.
You know, you have a life tolive, you have things to do.
She was like I want to go to asenior living facility, I want
to have friends, I want to go toevents, I want to play bingo.
You know she wanted those thingsand those, those social aspects
(27:28):
that she would not have gottenin my home.
And you know she was like if Ineed to move somewhere to be
closer to my kids, that's fine,they don't need to move from me.
So if you can see the needs ofothers when you're planning, um,
really take a look at that, seewhere your kids are.
Like you were saying earlier,uh, because we're all in
different places in our livesand it's hard for a kid to pick
(27:50):
up and move to you if they havekids in school and a really good
job and a house payment.
So have those conversations,talk about what that plan looks
like and, if that plan changes,have a plan B, a plan C.
I know we had that with my momand just knowing that she was
okay with making a decision thatwe didn't take care of her full
(28:12):
time took so much burden off myshoulders, so much burden so.
So those are things we can havethose conversations with, and
then we can also talk abouthiring professional caregivers
if if you have the money forthat, the good thing is is there
is, there's programs,especially if you know your
grandparent, parent, whoeverthis is for, was military, you
(28:35):
know they'll help you pay forsomeone to come in three days a
week and help them clean orbathe or do laundry, and that
can really be a blessing to afamily.
Shay (28:45):
Really be a blessing.
And then you know I say whatgoes from hiring professional
caregivers is setting boundariesto prevent caregiver burnout,
which that professionalcaregiver can help with.
Right, If you have the time andthe money to get the
professional caregiver that canhelp with that.
But also, just you know, theemotional support.
I mean you know we can put alot of time, money and emotional
(29:07):
support into taking care offamily members and that can
definitely lead to burnout.
Vanessa (29:11):
At one point in time I had a mom with cancer and a
spouse with cancer and I was thesole provider in my household.
Yet I had to take care of thespouse when I got home from work
every day, and then my mom anddad would come every weekend so
they could do treatments inAtlanta, and it was a lot.
Yeah, it was a lot, and I lostmyself in that and I didn't know
(29:34):
who I was.
I didn't know what to do or howto be, and I got to this point
where I had to say no tosomething, and I knew that, or I
don't know what would happen tome.
So you can find communitiesthat can help with that and I
would say, always ask thecaregiver how they're doing,
(29:55):
because nobody worries aboutthat person and usually that
person has the most stress onthem.
So, you know, reach out toother people that are going
through the same thing as youhave the conversations about
that and be open and honest, andthose boundaries are going to
oh, they're going to bewonderful one day, cause I was
able to do that with my fatherand just say that's a no and
(30:19):
walk away, and I would know he'dbe mad for a little bit.
He would always come back to meExactly yeah.
So there's all that.
And then you can always developa financial plan.
How are we going to pay forthis?
You know?
Do we need to modify the home?
Do we need to worry abouttravel back and forth?
There's all these things thatyou can talk about before it
(30:42):
becomes an issue, not in thatplace where how are we going to
pay for this?
Or you know he wanted to gohere.
We can't afford it.
We can only afford plan B or C.
Shay (30:54):
So if you know that ahead of time.
Vanessa (30:57):
wonderful, Absolutely wonderful.
Shay (31:00):
Wow, that was fabulous.
I mean a lot of great adviceand definitely learning to or
compromising with your elderlyfamily members.
And I would wrap it withProverbs 23, 22, which says
listen to your father, who gaveyou a life, and do not despise
your mother when she is old.
For me, I laugh becausesometimes we get to the point
(31:22):
where we're despising my motherand she's growing older and we
love her and we don't want tolisten to her father, but you
know he gives great advice.
So any final thoughts, vanessa?
Vanessa (31:32):
I would just say practice patience with all of us
Like you're saying practice,patience.
Know that it's going to happento all of us, and remember what
you want done for yourself oneday and make sure you plan it,
even if your parents didn't.
Shay (31:46):
There is a blessing in getting older right, and so try
to find the joy in it and beingthere for the you know, your
elderly family member at thatlast part of their life and
their journey, because you know,once they leave, that's it, and
so trying to find that timewith them is important too, but
definitely practice patience.
So thank you for joining ustoday have a wonderful day.
(32:06):
So thank you for joining ustoday.
Have a wonderful day.
A big thank you for listeningto this episode.
We hope you found today's chatabout the intersection of
religion and money insightful.
We would love to hear yourfeedback.
Vanessa (32:19):
Hit that subscribe button or follow the podcast,
and please feel free to leave usa review yes, and for the
latest Yahweh's Money content,visit us at crusaders4change.
org or find us anywhere youlisten to podcasts.
Until next time, stayfinancially fit and spiritually
inspired.
Shay (32:38):
And remember it's always better Yahweh's way.
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