#47 Building Queer Asian Spaces & Community with Tai

Episode Transcript
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Tai (00:00):
But then it gets to your question about sustainability though, like despite

(00:04):
how this city has sort of become likeeveryone against each other kind of
thing, and just very, in a lot of ways,like survival right now, it's tough.
The venues that I've had my eventsat, I have consistently had feedback
saying that, Everyone loves myparties, the employees in the venues.

(00:24):
And so it's a testament to the resilienceas a community is they find after our
parties, easiest to clean up aftereveryone wants to work our parties
because everyone's so nice and respectful.
And that's, what's going to make thissustainable is the people coming together.
And this universal sortof supporting each other.

(00:46):
Exactly.
I am so humbled and grateful that thisis what the reputation for Nanaka events
is now with venue spaces, because thecommunity there, everyone's there,
you know, everyone's so respectful.

Steven Wakabayashi (01:18):
Hi everyone.
My name is Steven Wakabayashi andyou're listening to Yellow Glitter.
Mindfulness through eyes and soulof queer asian and perspectives.
This episode we're joined byan extra special guest, Tai.
In 2006, Tai first discoveredthe Gay API community at the
web, a now defunct NYC nightclub,which left a lasting impression.

(01:38):
After completing college, he settledinto New York City in 2010, volunteering
with local community groups.
Launched a small Friday party calledMao, was a design director at a
new startup, and built communitylocally and internationally.
He left in 2019 to become a freelancecreative director, and his hunger for
building community ultimately led tothe creation of Nodok in August of 2022.

(02:00):
Welcome to the show!
Thanks, Steven.
Yeah, we were introduced by our mutualfriend, About maybe like a year ago and
since I've known you, we've talked about,or even longer than a year, I feel like.

Tai (02:17):
Almost two years now.

Yes.

Tai (02:19):
I was just recovering from my, uh, leg injury.

Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
Time flies and since then we've talkedabout life, community work, New York City.
I absolutely love and respect thework that you do and thought it'd be
great to bring you on the podcast.

Tai (02:40):
Thank you.
Excited to be here.

Yeah.
And so you do a ton of work here in NewYork City in creating spaces for our
API community, , especially through yourdifferent parties, here in the city.
And I would say party is likea loose word to define it.
Really gatherings, but you alsohelp companies, organizations
do event activations.

(03:03):
But let's just start with some ofthe stuff that you're doing in the
city first, like, what are you doing?
What's taking up your time lately?

Tai (03:12):
Yeah, a lot of it's been, um, as far as the event space is going, it's been
a lot of trying to set the establishedFriday, bi weekly Friday parties.
And also trying to branch out.
I think the branching outthis year is the big thing.
Trying to find more, um, less, Iguess, nightlife focused events
for people who are looking for, youknow, more casual social gatherings

(03:33):
and then brunches, bringing inother Queens for that and K pop.
Yeah.
No, I'm trying to reach thatwhole gamut of audience.

I love a good K pop night.
Don't we all?
Don't we all?
It's one of those things that, myselfpersonally, I used to be a K pop fan
like way back in the day, and I feellike now you have the new generations
that make song, kind of, you know,a blend of different musical styles.
Uh, my friend Nikita was listeningto, uh, some songs by New Jeans,

(04:03):
so I was like, oh, there's alot of, like, trap influence.
I was like, yeah, and, and back in theday it was like, hop, pop, you know?
Pure pop.
Yeah.

Tai (04:12):
It's quite the learning.
It's been quite the learning curve for me.

Especially when it comes to spaces you create, I think the
first word that comes up is community.
And I'm just curious, whatdoes that word mean to you?

Tai (04:26):
Yeah.
I was, you know, as, youknow, in my intro, like I was.
Very fortunate to meet a lot of peoplewho are willing to take me in as a newbie
to New York City, exploring being gay,exploring being, like, being Asian.
And having that support group as Iwas going through, like, you know,
college and fin and experiencing NewYork, it was, it meant a lot to me.

(04:47):
They're some of my friendswho have lasted forever.
They're still my friends.
And I want to be able to provide thatspace for our, the next generations.
Cause there really isn't.
Any space like that right now.

Yeah, especially in New York City, while we have a ton of
spaces, especially in the queer space.
Oftentimes finding queer spaces at theintersectionality of queer API spaces
is quite a rarity and oftentimes, youknow, it becomes relegated to this
like, very fetish driven space andI think a big part of your work has

(05:22):
been to create a space that is notreally meant for this type of work.
It's like this fetish driven likehookup space, but really a space to come
celebrate our folks in our community.

Tai (05:32):
Yeah, I've been fortunate enough to meet like a lot of people
who across the world and like, it'sit's the vibe and I think it's, you
know, partying in Asia and experiencesort of how the community is there.
I want to bring that back herebecause it's just very, you're.
Asian, but you're gay, and it's notlike your identity, so it's more like

(05:54):
bringing everyone together just reallyjust to be themselves and just like
experience community in that way.

Yeah, well let me ask, how did you even get started in this?
Um,

Tai (06:06):
yeah, so like back in the day, you know, we had the web and then
our friend Weegee, he started thisparty called Bond for a couple years.
That was sort of like a smallbar that we were all going to.
I started Mal on the Fridays.
So just again, I wanted, I wasworking like, 12 hours a day.
So I wanted to hang out with my friends.
So I was like, this is a greatchance to bring everyone in

(06:28):
make a buck on the side too.
Um, and then I did that onFridays for about a year.
And then, you know, this year, like2022 post pandemic, I was like, I'm
gonna actively start looking for spaces.
So I'd been keeping my eye open.
And then, um, verse, which they werejust launching, opening in June of 2022

(06:49):
and had gotten in there and they're likethey wanted to do something different
in this Hell's Kitchen space and soI'm like, yo, let's, let's connect.
We, I got the connections.

Yeah.
And for listeners too, during thepandemic and especially throughout
2022, 2021, we had such a huge shiftin businesses, especially queer bars.
Queer spaces in New York City,most of the major bars did
end up shutting down, right?

(07:19):
Yeah.
And I think if it weren't for many ofthe new owners to resurrect and or to
start a new club or bar in place of them.
I think some of them actually turnedinto like straight sports bars, right?
In Hell's Kitchen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think one of them was Verseand they took over another space

(07:43):
and just started during that time.
And what I think is quite fascinating,and maybe it's very serendipitous too,
is that Getting into creating your ownspaces and spots, it just happened to have
great timing while all these differentspaces were revitalizing too, right?

Tai (08:02):
Yeah, it, I think it's all about timing.
Um, you know, we'vetalked about this before.
I, the pandemic was,yeah, A rollercoaster.
Rollercoaster.
I am blessed that we had some spaces wherewe could have our own private parties.
Some of our fr a lot of my friendslearned, started learning how to DJ then.
So as I was looking forspaces, I had musicians.

Mm-Hmm,
. Tai: And so I think that was part of those early days of success was having, uh,
several of our original four DJs who hadalready DJ'ed for us all being able to
just pop in right away and automaticallycreated, made the night a thing.
And I think that was thereally important part.
Yeah.
Well, when it comes to parties, letme ask, when you were thinking about
collaborating and working with thesedifferent spaces, were you thinking

(08:49):
of an API party to begin with, orit just so happened to end up there?

Tai (08:56):
100%.
It was always about creatinga space for us, our community.
And that was always, that wasmy, that was my selling point.
I'm like, hey, we have areach across the country.
I think that's a challengingproving to space is that, you know,
a lot of white, non Asian spaces,they're like, oh, Asians are cheap.

(09:16):
So, but being able to prove to themthat like, nah, we're ready to throw
down if we have a space for our own andpeople of our own taking care of it.

Yeah, and you know, wealth I think can look a variety of
different means, and I do think inmany spaces, especially myself, and
I've had some friends on and we talkedabout like old Steven, Party Steven
back in the day, and a big part of itwas going to so many of these spaces

(09:47):
that were frankly white dominant.
White, gay, male, dominant, and feelingas though I just never belonged,
but in a way that I just alwaysfelt like I was trying so hard to
just even to exist in these spaces.
There had been times when I had beenin a venue when, you know, I brushed

(10:11):
up against somebody in passing throughcrowded spaces or I might have like
bumped into someone or I might have,you know, even looked at somebody.
There was once a time when I looked atsomebody and one of the party goers,
gay white man, was just so disgusted byit that he made a whole stink about it.

(10:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He made a whole.
And it was just that thing where it'slike, you know, and the, during like
my party days too, I thought it waswild, but it's still like very tame.
It was just like getting so muchdisdain from other party goers,
just been existing in space.
And I couldn't help, but to feel forso many years, I was like, why, why

(10:58):
am I spending money in this space?
Why am I choosing to use?
The free time that we havesuch little of, right?
Like we work so much of the day, but then,you know, we have this little free time.
Like, why am I really investing so muchtime back into these spaces, you know?
And I think the pandemic andjust my life and so many things

(11:20):
took so many twists and turns.
And.
It was really seeking these placesout that finally I felt that I was in
spaces that I felt heard, felt seen.

Tai (11:31):
That goes back to like my first time in New York City in 2006.

Mm hmm.

Tai (11:35):
I, growing up in Virginia, was Like, who?
Asian?
Oh my God, no one wants me.
Uh, all those rednecks that werehitting me up on Craigslist.
Oh my God.

We see you, you don't like us, and they're just like
messaging you like, Hey, what's up?

Tai (11:55):
As soon as you show your face like, Oh, you're Asian.
Oh no, gross.
I'm like, OK, whatever.

But then they're like messaging you on the side, on
Craigslist, on Grindr, and I'm like, hmm.
There

Tai (12:05):
was no Grindr back then.
No, when I came to 2006 in New York,I met a bunch of gay Asians that were
more like me, and more like me in thesense that they were more, I guess,

Yeah.

Tai (12:18):
Quote unquote normal and more like, you know, more masculine presenting and
that's who I aligned with and They tookme in, they created safe space for me,
and yeah, I was Twinkie Tai back thenSo whenever I was at a par like the Roxy
or Alegría back in the day, everyonewas like, oh Twinkie Tai I wouldn't

(12:38):
want a piece of that So I was lucky Imade a lot of connections through that.
But so I had that, that community thatI met in 2006 provided that safe space
for me to be, I explore my identityas an Asian and as a queer male.
And I, what you're saying now, I see thata lot in a lot of spaces, especially this

(12:59):
gap right before The pandemic even hit.
There was this kind of awkwardmoment for a couple years where
there was no specifically queerAsian space for us to hang out with.
There was therapy, but that wasby de facto, uh, by default.

But there

Tai (13:15):
was no space intentionally for us.
And that was somethingI saw that was missing.
And then when we had thepandemic, everyone was making
very strong connections justhanging out with each other.
And I was like, this is whatI've been missing myself.
And I see how much post pandemic, I seehow much everyone's craving that again.

(13:35):
And so everything just sort of happenedto align right at the right moments.
And I think that's really one of the bigdriving forces is helping provide that
space where people just, Really justbe themselves and, and the most normal
and not feel like they have to be overthe top if they want to, they can, all
that, it's just everyone can be them.

But normal can be so different.
Exactly.
You can be, were you saying top?
You could also be a bottom, you canalso be femme, you could be side, you
can be none of the above, and I thinkthe beautiful part about your space
is, is And you know, for so long wehad this, like, even like in the queer

(14:15):
and gay and even gay Asian community,there's this notion of like, how do I
have to fit in right into these spaces?
And I think your spaces have beenevolving to where Just seeing the
diversification of your space is startingto really consider like what are some
non alcoholic options, you know, andhow do we have spaces not entirely set

(14:38):
up in just like the house music, top40, diversifying to more K pop, and
I'm sure you're starting to see likea whole slew of audience changing as
well or who feel safe to come by, huh?

Tai (14:53):
Yeah, it's exciting to see people come out to certain things that don't
come out to the big, like, the main party.
And, and like, that's the wholepoint of creating these different
spaces, like you're saying.
It's, they feel comfortablewhere they can fit in.

Yeah, feeling comfortable.
wanting to just show up authentically.
And I do think just even reflectingin my life, and I do a lot of
these deep reflections whereI'm like, why did I even subject
myself to these spaces for so long?
And I think, especially as queer people,right, queer Asian people, we strive
and long so hard to be a part of spacesto feel like we have belonging and

(15:33):
there's also this interesting notion tooespecially as Asian folks here in the
west right in this country that is oursbut at times we don't feel like it is
ours but then we don't really identifywith the motherland or countries where,
you know, our heritage from is becausewe haven't been born there, right?

(15:55):
Maybe we don't speak thecountry's language or we just
don't have the same customs.
And a big part of us even navigatingthe spaces in a Western context has
been trying to find spaces, tryingto find ways that we can show up.
And I would say reflecting back on myself.

(16:15):
I think for a long time I had thisnotion of, well, I really want
to be freely queer, freely gay.
And I leaned so heavily into these spaces,not realizing it was very white dominant.
And so much of me trying to show up in thespace, I was like, well, if this is what

(16:35):
it means to be gay, right, or it meansto be queer, like this is what I have
to, I guess, be a part of, be Integratedwithin, and the more and more I do this
work, right, of either this podcast orall these other projects, The concept of
intersectionality comes up where we areat the intersection of all these facets.

(16:58):
Mm-Hmm, for our personality.
Right.
And I guess question for youis, what does that mean to you?
What does intersectionality,intersectionality of
identities mean to you?

Tai (17:10):
Yeah.
that's a big one for me.
I was, you know, as we talked about,I was born in Thailand and I was
adopted when I was two years old.
Bounced around the countryevery two to four years because
my dad is, you know, FBI.
And like, grew up in a very conservativeChristian, very old traditional family.

(17:31):
Um, and growing up in majority whiteareas and identity of being Asian.
I knew I was Thai from being sort of selfawareness at two, but from there, like,
it just, I didn't know what it meant toactually be Asian or Thai in that regard.
So it's like explored.
I went through that whole, like,that intermediate phase of like,
Oh, I'm so into anime, yo guys.

(17:53):
You catch the latest,uh, not a I love anime!
Same, same, same, same, same.
But it was like the, itwas like the nerd style.
It was like nerd level.
Otaku, yeah.
Totally, totally.
It was like, oh man, you know, all theblack clothes, you know, everything.
I mean, now it's a different level.
It's New York black clothes.

Well, now I just, I'm

Tai (18:11):
all
But it's like, and then, you know, andLike I said, I met this crew in 2006, and
like, I just, oh, like, this is different.
This is different.
I like this.
I feel like I can start identifyingwith this and relating to it.
And then, you know, it reallychanges once you get outside
of the Western perspective.

(18:33):
Um, I think the international,intersectionality of international
and American is a big one.
Your perspective changes when youstart hanging out with like, Partying
or even just hanging out with likea larger international community and
just sort of just puts perspectiveon sort of everything else around
us as, you know, Americans, wevalue identity politics so much.

(18:56):
Um, and this idea of fitting intoeverything, you know, it's It can be
an extreme in other countries, but Ithink we're taking it to other extremes
where we try to pigeonhole each other.
And I think that intersectionalityof it all for me is just,
I finally feel comfortable.
I think that's the thing.
Like all these growing up with allthese different backgrounds and places

(19:19):
and people, I finally feel comfortable.
I feel like there's this, I'vehit the sweet spot for myself.

Yeah.
Well, I want to.
Go a little further intowhat it's like growing up.
You mentioned a little bit of it, butI'm just really curious, you know,
especially as like an adoptee andlearning about your Asian identity, your
Thai identity, being queer, being gay,like, What was that like growing up?

Tai (19:50):
Growing up as younger years, it was fine.
I was, you know, you can sayignorance is bliss, um, until
the advent of the internet.
I did not know what clearing our cachemeant or clearing browser history.
And, you know, when you have an imagedownloading for an hour of 75 kilobytes
on, you know, the AOL dial up, It, youknow, things happen and you get caught

(20:16):
sometimes and that's created, thatcreated a lot of distance between my
parents and I growing up from like highschool all the way through college.
You know, they did the best theycould with what they had, um,
and I'm so grateful for them.
I wouldn't be sitting heretalking to you if it wasn't for
everything they've done for me.
Yeah.
But when I broke free, I think college wassort of like that ice, was sort of like

(20:40):
that initial crack in the ice, um, hangingout with the Christian Fellowship crew.
I think that was like a nice bridgebetween sort of my past life and
sort of hanging out with other.
Asians, breakdancing, like just thatcommunity, I think they really just opened
up my doors a lot more to seeing the worldat a different perspective, you know.

Breakdancing.
You've never told

Tai (21:06):
me about this.
Yes, on the breakdance crewat James Madison University.
Shout out to Circles.

What was, yeah, I, I, well, before we go into some
of these things, Even, you know,navigating your queer gay identity, um,
where are you with, with your family?
Have you, is it likea comfortable subject?
Is it something that they'vebeen able to reconcile?

(21:36):
You've had discussions about?

Tai (21:39):
Zero reconciliation on that.
I, they know, I, they know it'ssomething we don't talk about.
So it's an interesting relationship.
When I started all this stuff, myaunts know, they're super proud of me.
but when I talk to myparents, I'm like, Oh, I'm.
I'm doing community buildingand helping network people.

(22:00):
So it's very vague and not specific.
So it's still, I mean, they're dealingwith some health concerns, so it's
something like, I don't want to lay ontothem extra, but it's, uh, it's just an
interesting dynamic where they only get.
part of my life.
It's very filtered.

Yeah, it's unfortunate that we sometimes have
to shut parts of our lives whenpeople have blocks to be able to see
from an open hearted perspective.
One, I'm actually really glad that youhave aunts and other family members.
in the sphere who are proud and excited.

(22:43):
I'm a proud sister.
I'm proud of the work you're doing.
Um, and it's just one of thosethings that, especially looking at
the state of the country, right?
And seeing a shift in so many demographicsof people starting to think about
repealing gay marriage, same sex marriage,and bringing back so much of the discourse

(23:10):
that I thought we had departed from,you know, when same sex marriages were
made legal and everyone's rejoicing agesago, but it wasn't that long ago, right?
But, you know, just around the corner, Letme, hold on, I need to look at this up.
That was fairly recent.
2015.

(23:30):
Yeah.
Ten, nine years ago.
Yes, yes,

Tai (23:32):
yes.
Yeah, that's fairly recent.

And so much of, yeah, so much of the discourse coming back.
I do remember when I was coming up and atthe time, back in my hometown, Chick fil
A used to be a very big thing, and whenthey first opened, it was this popular
joint, everyone was so popular, and Iremember Prop 6 in California, proposition

(23:54):
against gay marriage, same sex marriages,uh, came out, and it was just a very eye
opening moment for me to look at and startseeing, you know, people who blatantly
had all this hate and all this anger.
Yeah.
And so much of what I'm seeingand experiencing now is.
Very reminiscent of those times.

(24:15):
People feeling emboldened to, and what'scrazy is I was just like Why are people
spending so much money for impacting thelives of so many people around us, right?
And it's just, but it goes backto maybe the experience with your
family and just like religiousbeliefs or just conservative values

(24:37):
that might be holding them back.

Tai (24:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, I mean, I'll just say it's likethis idea that they are the guardians
and stewards of the moral high ground.
And it's, No amount of money istoo small to spend to be the, to
be the vanguard of this old ways.

Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's a part of a system, right?
Like there's a huge system at play thattruly weaponizes these tropes to garner
donation, sympathy, what have you.
And I think a big part of life is,at least in a lot of the work that we
do, is just starting to embrace theunknown, things that we're not aware of.

(25:25):
Even discourse within the queer LGBTQumbrella is expanding our awareness of,
it's not maybe just these binaries ofmale, female, being non binary, but a
whole spectrum across the board, right?
With different sexualities andhaving it as a not even like you're

(25:47):
either gay or straight, but how dowe bring like different points at
completely different angles, right?
Where does asexuality sit?
Demisexuality, and I think what I'mlearning more and more as I get older
is that we truly don't know anything.
Nah.

Tai (26:06):
Again, American politics, they love identities.
I mean, like, we loveputting a label on anything.

Yeah.
And it's, it's safety.

Tai (26:14):
It makes them feel safe.
Right?
Oh yeah.
One hundred percent.
In this world right now, I thinkeveryone's trying to cling on to what
makes them feel safe, whatever it is.

I think, I think there's something interesting
that's said about, um, multiplesides of the political spectrum.
I think it can be said that I thinkwe were spending so much time in
discourse of just emboldened to battleone another, and I think What I'm
noticing even like on YouTube, right?
Of these different channelsthat have people from like

(26:47):
these dualities, polarities.
You know, having these YouTubevideos made and arguing with each
other, and I can't help but to seewhat's really happening, right?
Like this stuff gets so popular.
It's like so, right?

Tai (27:03):
People aren't listening anymore.
Discourse isn't to actuallyhave discourse and learn.
Discourse is to be like, I'm right.
You are wrong.
And I think we can thank a certainformer president for really codifying
and making that part of American culture.

And

Tai (27:20):
I think it's.
Just coming back to just listening andbeing open and like discourse is good
and when it's healthy when we're able tolearn and see, Oh, maybe I am thinking
about things differently or, you know,maybe I need to, you know, change
my opinion, but being open to that.
And I don't think we areopen as a society anymore.

Yeah.
You know, especially.
Myself, uh, you know, I attendprotests, I'm all for, yeah,
speaking truth to so many things.
But I think sometimes what isn'treally explained to so many of us
is there's a very big gray area oflike, it's not one or the other,

(28:05):
and it's very circumstantial, right?
And especially with a lot of whatI've been seeing lately is a ton
of community infighting, you know?
Where, especially within the LGBTQumbrella, we're all fighting and
arguing with one another and there'seven this like subset where it's like

(28:26):
the LG B, Umbrella, who wants to likedistance themselves from the T and Q.
And I'm like, what is, I'mlike, what is happening?
I'm like, there's just, exactly.
There's not that point of it.
And, and they're starting to align withmore right leaning Republican ideologies.

(28:48):
And it's, it's just very sad tosee so much is happening around us.
That's how a lot of Justreally harmful discourse.
And I think a big part of even like thepodcasts that we have, um, and we'll
definitely talk about it later on,but this like vision for the future,
or maybe let's take off, talk aboutit now, but a big part of how we even

(29:11):
root ourselves in a conversation is.
Thinking about what isthe future that we want?
Let me ask you.

Tai (29:19):
Yeah.

What is the future that you want, Tai
? Tai: I mean, for myself personally, you know, I want a future where I'm able
to build a space for everyone to feelsafe no matter what spectrum they're on.
You know, I think To that conversation,to that sort of like infighting
within the community, people haveasked me, well, are you competing

(29:41):
with so and so or this or that?
I'm like, no, I'm not competing.
My goal is not to compete.
My goal is to providean option and a space.
And if you want to use it, think twice.
Use it.
Thankfully, I appreciate it.
That's my, at the end of theday, that's what my moda operanda
is and how I see everything.
I'm not trying to go after anybody.

(30:02):
It's more like,
yeah,

Tai (30:03):
I'm proud of the space and the community is the ones who fill that
space with the energy they want it to be.
And so I'm very fortunate that everyone'sbeen able to use that sort of like
idea of it being like a hollow vessel.
I set the bounce, sortof the intention of it.
And then the community fillsit with their own energy.
And I want to continue being able toexpand that and be able to do that.

(30:26):
Tap into other communities that aren'tfeeling like they are being heard
within the Queer API community space.
Expanding it outside of New York.
Being able to bring it to other cities.
Because, you know, there's a, Italk to my friends in Philly or DC.
There's a large, there's a decentsized Queer Asian community there.
But there's no organization.
There's no sort of, "Hey, this is wherewe can all be ourselves", kind of thing.

(30:50):
Less, you know, they're, theyhave like sort of activist
groups, let's say social space.
So being able to provide, bring thatto other cities and stuff across
the country and even the world.
That's, uh, that's the, that'sa long term goal for NOC.

Yeah, I love that.
I think what I really resonate withis, I mean, one, I love your projects,
expanding outwards, diversifying,adding more texture into the landscape
of different places to go out,things to do, spaces to be a part of.

(31:24):
But I, what I really appreciate iswhat some will call like abundance
mindset, but it's really this notionof wanting greater for one another.
And I think, call it mindsetor what have you, but.
We as individuals have to groundourselves with that, and that belief of

(31:45):
wanting more for everyone collectively,and that in turn I think is going to
impact the way that we see our workand maybe where it sits in lateral with
other businesses, and in the future.
I'm sure you're very familiar with like,you know, working in the corporate sector
and people like, we have to compete.
We have to be numberone and da, da, da, da.

(32:05):
And the more that I'm doing work withour organizations and our work, the
more I'm realizing like it's aboutsitting alongside all these amazing
other people doing work together,doing work that they're uplifting,
that you're uplifting their work.
And I think our work becomesso much richer in that way.

Tai (32:27):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Especially as like a minoritygroup within, traditionally
marginalized minority groupwithin, uh, within the queer space.
Like we all gotta work togethercause it's, it's, it's It doesn't
behoove us to work against each other.
And I've been blessed to meetso many of the drag queens.
So like the Red Paviliongirls, they're so amazing.

(32:49):
Coca Cola.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Felicia, um, they're, they've workedwith them on several of my events.
They're just like such good energy.
And it's like,

yeah,

Tai (32:57):
giving that back to each other.
And it helps each other.
Helps each other's events growand it's sort of like, you know,

Mm-Hmm
, Tai: I can't make one.
I'll send people to that one theirs.
Or they can't see vice versa.
And so it's just
Mm-Hmm,
. Tai: We just help each other out.
And I think that's, as long as we canmaintain that sort of mindset as we all
get bigger, I think that's gonna just,that's gonna make sure we're unstoppable.
Yeah, I think that's really the way forward of

(33:25):
how do we coexist with one another.
And yeah, so much of like my work nowis undoing a lot of this like harmful
corporate brainwashing that happenedwhere it's like, like, how can any
company have qualms or issues withwanting to support your competitor, right?
Like, wouldn't you want to be in aspace with other people who are co

(33:48):
creating with you and that you can helphave friendly competition or friendly
support with each other, you know?
Yeah.
And at the end of the day, I think ourproducts are better, our communities
are better, our people are better.
And yet what we're seeing also in like thetech, the, especially in the tech space.

(34:10):
So many monopolizations of industriesand organizations and I think that's
been really top of mind is thisconcept of sustainability, right?
Not just the environment, butsustainability of our work, our community,
ourselves, and How we maintain it, becauseright now I feel like there's so many

(34:32):
things happening where it's like, are wegoing to be around for 10 years, 20 years?
And right in New York, you and I arehere, and we're like, like this year
in particular, like, when have weseen the weather shift back and forth?
Literally one weekendis 20 degrees, right?
And next weekend is like 50 some degrees.
And it's just, to me, just evenbeing in the city, you're already

(34:55):
noticing so many of these changes.

Tai (34:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, the changes are, changes are wildin the city, you know, I think, seeing
where everything's going, um, therewas this nice little blip post pandemic
where New York felt like a community.
Um, and now it's justeveryone's for themselves.
I think the economy's gotten so,it's very interesting, sort of like,

(35:22):
probably it's all hypothetical, butyou saw how the stock market crashed
and how businesses crashed, like largecorporations totally crashed during the
pandemic because people weren't out.
using their services thatthey had us addicted to.
And as a society, we all became closerand we all became friendlier and sort of
like more accommodating of each other.

(35:43):
And then I think going backto smaller local roots and
more community based things.
And so now it's almost like theywere cranked it up on us and be
like, all right, you guys aregetting too chummy with each other.
Y'all need to be incompetition with each other.
Y'all going to drive our sales up higher.
So.
Go battle royale it out or something.

Yeah, it's, and during the pandemic, I remember when a
pandemic first started, everyone's like,it's zoom, Friday hangout, it's amazing.
So great.

Tai (36:17):
Like drunk at 10am on Saturdays.
It's amazing.

And it's, um, I, I, I, Really appreciate it.
At least in New York City, youfelt a big sense of camaraderie.
And I think it was becausewe're like piled on top of each
other and we have to figure out.
How to survive.
And I think we did actually a reallygreat job socially distancing.
Um, people stopped taking publictransportation when they could.

(36:45):
Right.
And when people are out and about,when it wasn't tourist heavy,
right, people were actually spacedout, giving each other space.
And it's just one of those things thatit was a really good reminder that
it wasn't about like, who owned whatclothes, what, you know, things you
did that was just lavish, what foodyou ate that was so fancy, right?

(37:10):
Even like the real fancy restaurants,like even like Park, like.
Was it Park Eleven or likeother fancy restaurants?
All Top in Madison, yeah.
Yeah, they all did like takeout, youknow, and like, all these restaurants
went back to the roots and the basics oflike, what does it truly mean to show up?
And I think it really helped tobring it, like, humanize everyone

(37:33):
with each other, you know?
Yeah.

Tai (37:35):
It's a common struggle to work against.
And I think that just, that's whatmade it such an, a unique, once
in, honestly, hopefully a once in alifetime experience, knock on wood.
But I guess to your questionabout sustainability though, like,
despite how this, you know, Cityhas sort of become like everyone
against each other kind of thing.

(37:56):
And just very, in a lot ofways, like survival right now.
It's tough.
The venues that I've had my eventsat, I have consistently had feedback
saying that everyone loves my parties,the employees and the venues they are.
And so it's a testament to resilienceas a community is they find all.

(38:20):
are after our parties,easiest to clean up after.
Everyone wants to work our partiesbecause everyone's so nice and respectful.

Yeah.

Tai (38:29):
And you know, I think that's, what's going to make this sustainable
is the people coming together.
And this universal sortof Supporting each other.
Exactly.
And I'm, I am so humbled and gratefulthat the community, this is what the
reputation for Nanak Events is now.
With venue spaces, because thecommunity, they're, everyone's there,

(38:52):
you know, everyone's so respectful.

And I don't think, I mean, for our listeners too, to
give so much more detail into Tai andjust like, how far the extension of
like, queer Asian ness really extends.
Like Your performers, your musicians,the DJs, like all of these folks are all
typically, uh, Queer API identifying.

(39:15):
And you're creating this space,and even the bartenders, right?
And you put in these requests andyou build this infrastructure.
And I think that all plays into why thecommunity, when they show up, feel safe,
feel seen versus having, let's say,our identities commodified as a part of

(39:37):
like, what comes up for me immediatelyis like, all these companies celebrating
Lunar New Year, you know, and puttingall these like, envelopes here, there,
and going, Oh my God, look at us.
And I get like, like nothing todo with any Asian thing, right?
Where sometimes they'll do theseLunar New Year celebration stuff.
And you know, Lunar New Year is practiced,uh, broadly across many different spaces

(40:00):
and Um, beyond also Asia, like I thinkthere's something to be said about like
showing up, creating space intentionally,bringing people, community together
with a ton of intentionality, right?
Yeah.
And what I really appreciate aboutyou is that You almost don't give

(40:20):
yourself an excuse of like whyyou shouldn't extend that into
like different people or whatnot.
Like you're really trying hard to makethis a whole ecosystem for a community.
Yeah,

Tai (40:32):
I think it comes from my experience as a brand development
and advertising and marketing andexperiential design, all that.
I want everyone else to be seen and heard.
I'm okay being in the background becausethat means I'm doing a good event.
If there's not like a lot of complaints,things like that, you know, it's like,
if everyone's able to just have fun andlet loose and just be themselves, I try

(40:56):
to hardest in the background, makingsure that like technicalities are out of
the way, making sure the performers haveeverything they need, making sure any of
the staff is taken care of the venues.
Okay.
And so that way it just creates.
And everyone just be there tohave fun without having to worry
about X, Y, and Z or whatever.
Um, that's really how I run the eventsand then just, Building that seamlessness

(41:20):
into the larger ecosystem of likeNAROC and future events is going to
be, that's how it's all going to be.

Yeah, yeah.
And also, I think what's top of mind,going back to what you mentioned
around the space being clean.
The media analogy I have is, so Iused to go to Burning Man like way
back in the day for so many years.
And there's this whole notionof Burning Man around like
you clean up after yourself.
You make it sustainable and over theyears, you've just seen this influx

(41:55):
of just garbage and trash and peopledumping everything and while on the
outside it might be just as simpleas like clean up after yourselves.
But in practice and in theory, itextends it so much further, right?
People keep clean and people take care ofthe spaces that they love, they resonate

(42:15):
with and they feel nurtured by, right?
Yep.
Versus they come in and have to useit, you know, up and make the most
of it and get the fuck out, right?
Yeah.
And I, I think, There's somethingto be said about using that also
as a gauge of am I creating somespace that people feel as though it

(42:35):
is almost like their home, right?
That they feel enticed toclean and care for as well.

Tai (42:42):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
I think it's like, when I was starting allthis, all these out, I was like, I want
to feel like, I'm inviting people intomy space or like my home or something.
Just that's the attitude andfriendliness and sort of welcomeness
that, you know, I, I, I approach all,I approached it in the early days.
And to your point, and you'reright, like people come in,

(43:04):
they're so grateful to have.
the space.

Yeah.

Tai (43:07):
So, and they treat it well.
And I think, yeah.

Yeah.
I'm laughing because I was like,next, uh, all NAROC events, you gotta
take off your shoes when you come.

Tai (43:18):
Imagine at the rooftop of the hotel, there's just like shoes
lined up in the lobby of the hotel.
It's a home.

Uh, it's, yeah, it's, um, it's, um, It's great, and I also think
you really strive hard to think also aboutthe organization, growing it, thinking
about in terms of like the operationsside, and really creating a sustainable

(43:46):
environment, and I think out of somany things that I've been a part of,
I do appreciate so much intentionality.
That you put into the spaceand I think it's a part of
why New York is the way it is.
We have so many people that justcare about nurturing the city
and our people and yeah, it'sespecially having gone through stuff.

(44:11):
I love it.
I think folks should attend.
Tai is hosting events.
In New York, primarily, but also hostsome in like, what, Singapore, Thailand.
Sisters, yeah.
All the sister cities.
Sister parties.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And let me ask you after having runall this and having done all of it,

(44:31):
and it's a part of just your dayto day, how has this changed you
personally, impacted you personally?
Yeah,

Tai (44:39):
I think one of our early conversations we were at, um, at dim
sum place and you mentioned the peoplewho I'll meet, I think that has been
one of the biggest changes, the peopleI've been meeting, like I'm now really
close with the CEO of this premium sojucompany, people are building things.

(45:00):
You start attracting other peoplethat are building things and those
conversations just start becoming aboutgrowth and , helping each other, like
what we originally said, like helpingeach other, like, Oh, I know so and
so those kinds of things to help groweach other and support each other.
I think that's been the coolestchange that I've seen so far.
And it's just like this other energy.

(45:20):
I think I have new energyfor life in a lot of ways.
I think knowing that I'm buildingsomething of my own and my own dream
that I am truly, truly passionateabout, it gets me up out of bed.
You know, I think sometimes it's hard.
Yes.
But at the end of the day, I am so,especially now with the bed right here,

(45:41):
um, I am so grateful and that in livingup to the community's expectations,
I think that I put that on myself alot too, you know, making sure that
they, enjoy the best event possibleand make sure that they're building
their own communities, you know?

Yeah, it's, you know, people I don't think sometimes like on
the attendee side are aware it's like,it's tough to do this stuff, right?
Because it's easy to be like, I'mjust going to make a new space.
It's for anyone and everyone.
And we're going to justmake a ton of money, right?
Which is like most of the partiesand most of the venues, right?

(46:20):
In the circuit space, like, Like, Iknow it's hard to believe, but the
circuit space, like way back in theday, decades and decades and decades
ago, was this underground enclave ofqueer people, more diverse, right?
Of all different backgrounds,different body shapes and sizes.
And I think when it started turninginto who's who, it started like

(46:43):
self selecting for these spaces.
Once you really get into it, yourealize like a lot of the people
who are like, you know, thequintessential type of beauty, right?
Light skin, white, masculine,muscular, they don't even
pay to go to these parties.
And so it's like, it's not even like who'swho, it's like who got free entry into it?
And then they self select.

(47:05):
But going back to the pointis, even getting funding to
run for this is hard, right?
Finding a venue that is reallyexcited by this is hard.
And a lot of spaces will be like, oh,we want to, you know, champion diversity
and equity and all these people.
But the minute you're like, okay,but I want this space and let's

(47:26):
do this and will you pay for it?
They're like, yeah, we'llget back to you, you know?
And so, like, I want, listeners toreally understand that this stuff is
hard, you know, and really securingspaces, especially in New York City,
when businesses feel as though ifit's not catering to everyone, i.

(47:47):
e., like, mostly primarily Still likewhite community here in larger America
that they somehow might be losing money.
Yes.
You know?

Tai (47:56):
Yes.
That is a big, that is a big thing thata lot of venues, um, have mentioned.
Especially for the weekends,they have a high bar minimum.
And, you know, I think with that,they're not as open to experimentation.
I get it.
They're business.
They have to worry abouttheir bottom lines.
And I think part of why I've beenable to be so successful is I've been

(48:18):
able to find, build relationshipswith venues and people that are
willing to let us experiment.
Like last summer, I was at High Bar.
I introduced the owner there andI had a Sunday party every Sunday.
Um, it did great for a couple months andthen just kind of petered out, which.
But it

was the winter time, but it was like,

Tai (48:40):
it

was, it was fall.
still

Tai (48:42):
warm, but it was still, but they were still willing to let me have it.
And I think that's a testamentto the relationship is they
were letting me like, Oh, cool.
Yeah.
They were, they were stillletting me like, cool.
We know we trust you.
We know how much you can bring in.
Yeah.
It's slow.
We get it.
Everybody's slow.
They're willing to work with me.

(49:03):
Other venues, like.
You know, they're very much so,Oh, uh, you didn't hit the minimum.
So can we do it a differentspace or different room?
Um, and then you get bummed becausethat part of that larger space that's
more public, it's not, it's louder.
So, you know, I think,

yeah,

Tai (49:21):
I am very, very fortunate to have established the relationships
that I've had to be able to have.
Space to experiment.

Yeah.
Well, you know, the spaces thatyou've had, like, like people
show up, people are spending moneybeing a part of the festivities.
And I think sometimes it is reallyshort sighted of people to equate,
like, unless your community is makingme cash, like you mean nothing.

(49:52):
But the other part is like, we livein a world where you've got to figure
out how you're making these spaces.
And especially as a person who, isactively thinking about these things,
developing businesses, projects.
I think if we don't do, like,the alternative, right, is if

(50:13):
we don't do this homogeneity,like what, what great is that?
Is that inspiring us, right?
Is that getting us out ofour bed in the morning?
Is that, is that making New York City, NewYork City, especially in that case, right?
And is that the legacy?
Let's say we're not even here anymore.
Is that the legacy thatwe want to leave behind?

(50:34):
You know.
And I read a lot of books about a NewYork City culture from back in the day.
And how often is a space reveredfor sticking to the norm, right?
Yeah.
Like, that venue.

Tai (50:52):
Always the weird

wild

Tai (50:53):
ones.

Exactly.
Yeah.
The ones that really push the boundaries.
The one that was more inclusivetowards, you know, folks coming in
who were, at one point, it was like,they're like, oh, this is wild.
It's not this like, youknow, Thai establishment.
It's like musicians and artists and,you know, which I feel like is like

(51:17):
everyone's audiences are trying to caterin Brooklyn now, but I feel like these
venues that were creating space for somany people who at one point, right?
Even like all the different nightclubsfrom like Studio 54 era, right?
Like, all of those places were cateringtowards A lot of these people, right,

(51:41):
who were in the fashion scene, were inthe nightlife scene, who were more avant
garde in personality at the time, right?
But those are now revered, right?
And people are like, oh my god,like, look how amazing that was.
But it's so funny how it's like people,people try, don't realize that they're

(52:01):
like really upholding like homogenatingjust like one bland, like, you know,
like emptying inclusivity, right?
Inclusivity is everythingfor everyone, right?
All lives matter, right?
It's like all this stuff, right?
Um, and not realizing that really whatmoves the needle is when we constantly
keep looking for spaces and communitiesthat really haven't been served, right?

(52:26):
And then we're activelycreating space for them.

Tai (52:29):
It's such a catch line too, I think.
It's like, we start off withcreating those unique spaces that
are breaking out of the norm.
Over the years, or as they say,get bigger, it becomes the norm.
And so it's like how do I think thechallenge for me and is like how do

(52:51):
we make sure that it's evolving in away that is still feeling fresh, but
also in a way that it's intentional.
And I think that's a challenge, youknow, I think for as, as we, as I
grow and sort of move forward, I thinkthat's also why I'm Writing out into
different things like social specificsort of events, different genre events

(53:11):
specifically, is how do we keep it fresh?
How do we make it feel intentionaland wanting not just the homogeny,
like, you know, we see a lot ofthe community sees each other.
There are a lot of them arefriends with each other.
So everyone sees each otherduring the week already.
So like, why do we still want to come out?
And I think that's, the New,interesting side is, and thankfully

(53:36):
we're in New York, is there's alwayssomeone new coming into the city.
There's always visitors.
There's always someonefrom out of the country.
So it's, that I think continuesto help inject new blood every
time an event's going on.
Just, it's nice to see new faces.
I think that's the homogeny side ofthings, is you get used to seeing
everyone's face and you're like,oh, I've seen them, like, last week.

Mm hmm.

Tai (53:59):
Right.
With New York being New York, Ithink that's, I am blessed and
very lucky in that regard to havethat high sort of like, turnover.

Yeah, and I really resonate with what you mentioned, like
once it could be like this radicalspace, and like a radical space, When
we think about the who's in the marginsfor our spaces, I think we always
have to constantly reflect on that.
And I think what's resonating with meis queer spaces in New York, right?
There was a time when literallyqueer spaces were like the

(54:29):
underground and were demonized.
Police were coming in, arrestingpeople in these spaces, where being in
a same sex relationship was illegal.
And, yeah, at one point in the U.
S.
And now we're seeing queerspaces, frankly, a ton of
them, which is amazing, right?

(54:50):
But even like yourself, like havingto pitch this concept of, well, queer
Asian space is important, right?
And then being turned away.
And what makes me think abouttwo things, like one, it is
like the need to constantlyreflect, even when we're in the.
It's like the populations with power,resources in these communities, right?

(55:10):
Specifically in the queercommunities with especially the
white dominant spaces, right?
Learning to make space for themargins within the LGBTQ space.
But I do reflect on the flip side couldbe also in our queer Asian spaces, right?
Like, do we stay more relevant in termsof being open minded, welcoming, accepting

(55:32):
who are our margins, you know, and Ithink a few things that's coming up
that I see you immediately implementingis this notion where it doesn't have
to be based around hookup culture, itdoesn't have to be based around alcohol,
drugs, it doesn't necessarily have tobe around the need for dating, right?

(55:53):
And diversifying these spaces and creatingspaces that have different intentionality
and also even like music genre.

Tai (56:02):
Yeah.

Right?
Yeah.

Tai (56:04):
It's, I think it's the sort of, New York is such a diverse space.
And the, I'd say a lot of theestablished queer Asian community
has found their lifelong friends andtheir sort of groups in the city.
And I, part of what I hope andam seeing happen is people are

(56:26):
moving outside of their groups.
They're meeting otherpeople, at Nanak events.
Um, and I think that's, you know, we'releading towards the more social side
is like getting people out of thatand like, Hey, cool, let's go, like.
I don't know, make potteryor stamp paper or something.
But, um, just like somethingwhere they can meet other people
with their fellow queer Asian.

(56:46):
Yeah.
I know.
It's like, what?
There's also like this whole entire.
Older group of the queer asiancommunity that isn't like loud music.
They don't want to be out insort of like all that space.
So like, how do you tap into them and makethem feel like, because they want to also
build fellowship within the community.
Um, from conversations I've had with otherpeople, you know, it's like, does that.

(57:06):
Does that look like a yacht partywhere you, we, for one Sunday for
like two, three hours, you pack somemoney and we get some champagne and
it's an older group of queer Asians.
And so it's just like, you know,it's what is, what are these
spaces look like to cater to?
All these differentgroups within our space.

Wait, business idea for you.
I feel like this can easilyturn into like Narrak social.
And it's like, okay, there's thisnew venue in New York City and
I think it was like one in LA,but you just make phone cases.
And then they have all thesecharms and all these things and
they sell clear phone cases.
That you can put as many charms as youwant, and then you, they give you like,

(57:52):
this thing that almost like frost,like cake frosting, and it dries and
it hardens, um, and then you couldbasically make your own phone cases,
and I could just see like, I lovethat, like that activity, stamped,
like the little wax stamps, like that'spopular, painting night, paint night.
Yeah.

Tai (58:12):
Yeah.
There's a lot of things.
Yeah.
And I think people will.
And I think it's intimidating.
New York is intimidating.
And I think.
I am very fortunate that peopletrust me and the Narrak brand and
know that I've vetted whateverexperience you're about to walk into.
I've vetted it thoroughly andyou're going to have a good

(58:32):
time and it's with intention.
So I think that putspeople's minds at ease.
So whenever I'm like, oh, thereis something new, we're going to
do stamp, rubber stamp making.
They're like, cool, Iknow it's going to be fun.

Yeah.
Okay.
A few questions for you.
I think we touched on so many things.
I absolutely adore you,the work that you do.
A few quick questions.
What is one thing that is resonatingfor me from this conversation that you
want listeners to be taking away with?

Tai (59:07):
For listeners, be open minded and think listening to each other and
different opinions, truly listening.
I think that's the only waywe're going to move forward.

Mm hmm, and What is inspiring you lately?
Everything.

Tai (59:24):
I honestly, it's just like, there's so, I'm working on a client,
uh, for a synthetic bio client,doing an event in April for them.
I'm inspired, like, geneticallyengineered plants to glow.
So it's like, I'm inspiredby a lot of stuff right now.
It's just like,

yeah,

Tai (59:40):
and it's trying to contain it.
I think it's trying to contain it.
That's the big thing.

Favorite K pop song?

Tai (59:48):
Oh, it's one of the Chungha songs, Bicycle.
Stay.
Stay.
Bye, Chungha.

Okay.
Yes.
Stay.
That's so funny because I haven't beenlistening to as much, uh, K pop in the
past, like, few weeks, but I started, I,I listen to so many and I was like texting
him to you, I'm like, Tai listen to this.
I

Tai (01:00:11):
know, I'm sending it to, adding it to my list of, for my DJs.
But

Steven Wakabayashi (01:00:15):
the Thai pop girlies, their stuff is so good lately.
I'm like, oh my god, it's,it's, it's catchy, huh?
Yeah,

Tai (01:00:25):
sometimes I play some of the groups and they're like, oh, who is this?
I'm like, it's Thai.

Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. (01:00:28):
undefined
It's, it's so good.
So if anyone's listening and wantsto check out some new things, there's
a bunch of, it's just a Thai pop.
I usually use YouTube.
Allie is a really good one, um,and there's a few others, but.
Really, really, really good stuff.
MX Fruit is my favorite.

(01:00:49):
They're like the new jeans,but Thai, but they're so cute.

Tai (01:00:54):
That's very cute.
It's very distinctly Thai as well.

Yeah.
And I, I think just in terms ofeven the curating of the members.
I feel like the people that theyhave represent so many facets of
Thai populations really well too.
Yeah.
And even like the skin colors andthe diversity of like faces, I
think they did a really good job.

(01:01:18):
Yeah.
Definitely.
How can people find you and your work?

Tai (01:01:23):
Yeah.
Follow us on Instagram, uh, naroknyc.
Also if you're looking for tickets andmore party event information, naroknyc.
com.
That's where we're at.
If

you're going to expand beyond NYC, are you
going to get a different handle?

Tai (01:01:39):
So I'm going to register as corp

Narrak

Tai (01:01:42):
and so that way I can expand and obviously want to set up a
specific handle for each location.
Ooh, Narrak.
I gotta start, I gotta start, Igotta start booking accounts now.
Yes, you do.

So TBD, more to come.
Um, and if you as listeners took alot out of this conversation, uh,
definitely leave us a rating reviewin your favorite podcast platforms.
That's how folks will discoverus through your kind words.
And also if you visit ourwebsite at yellowglitterpodcast.

(01:02:19):
com, you can learn more about Tai.
And we'll add links to hiswebsite, his social, and other
projects in there as well.
Thank you so much for this episode, Tai.
I love the work that you do.
I'm a huge fan of just you asa person and all the work that
you're bringing out into the world.

(01:02:40):
I just really appreciate theconversations we always have.

Tai (01:02:42):
Yeah, likewise.
Thank you.
It's been a blessing meeting you.
Um, and I'm really gratefulfor this opportunity to share a
little of my story with everyone.

Awesome.
And for all those listening,thank you for listening.
And we're excited to hostyou on our next episode.
Thank you, Tai andwe'll talk to you later.
Bye now.

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