#50 Drag, Self Expression & Asian Representation with Miss Shu Mai

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Miss Shu Mai (00:00):
I think one of the main things that keeps me going is the
community, is knowing that I createspaces that bring people together
on the very surface level, peoplecome together to have a good time
and be able to enjoy things and atthe same time, even though that feels
surface level, that's so needed.

(00:21):
There's a need for that space becausewithout that, without entertainment
and without art, we don't have breath.
I also know that this islike my purpose to do this.
It's my purpose in this world to besomeone that provides even just an
ounce of liberation to someone, allowsomeone to be more free in themselves.
If I can provide that, and that'ssomething that I know I can provide

(00:44):
to people, that's what I do.

Steven Wakabayashi (01:05):
Hi everyone, my name is Steven Wakabayashi, and
you're listening to Yellow Glitter,perspectives from queer Asian creatives
and change makers making an impact.
This episode, we're joined by anextra special guest, Miss Shumai.
Miss Shumai is a Taiwanese Americandrag queen whose drag incorporates
dance and humor to celebrate thequeer Asian American experience.
Originally from the Bay Area, she holdsthe title of Miss GAPA 2018 and now

(01:30):
resides in Los Angeles where she helps runmultiple queer Asian spaces including LA's
API Drag Extravaganza Said Nudes Party!
Let's get into it.
Welcome to the podcast.

Hello, hello, hello.
Thank you for having me.

It's so great to have you, uh, another Taiwanese.
My mom's also fromTaiwan, so reppin Taiwan.

Yeah, Taiwan.

Yes.

Have you
been before?

I used to go before pandemic every two to
three years, um, I love Taiwan.

Oh, that's legit.

Yeah.

That's legit.
Do you have a lot of family there?

I do.
My mom is actually, uh, oneof 13 brothers and sisters.

Oh, so you, oh, so you
know, so you know, I have a, I havea, my, my mom's side, yeah, my mom's
side is really, really big as well.

Yeah.
Where's she from originally?

So my diasporic background is a little interesting.
So my parents both met and basicallygrew up in Taiwan, but they're not,
they weren't born there originally, eventhough, but they're both full Chinese.
Um, my mom was born in Cambodia,so full Chinese, but Cambodian.
Can't, we're both sides ofmy family are Cantonese.

Oh, wow.

Um, my dad was born in Guangzhou.
Then moved to Hong Kong super earlyand then moved to Taiwan for college.

Oh wow.

Yeah.
And then most of my dad'sside is in Taiwan, so.

Wow.
Nice.
Uh, near Taipei?
Yeah.

Everyone's in Taipei.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And then when's
the last time you visited?

Nearly 10 years ago.

Wow.

Um, I know.
It was, the year was 2015 andI had just graduated college.
Oh, I just aged myself.
Oh, I had just graduated collegeand my parents were like,
let's go visit your family.
And I was like, bet.
I'm not paying for this shit.
And so, yeah, that was the last time I wasout of the country, and it was my first

(03:27):
time being there, like, being out, too,so that was an interesting experience,
but because I was with family, I didn'treally, like, get to, I didn't get to
explore queer nightlife, also, I was like,I was 21, I was, I felt really young, I
felt, it didn't feel super safe for meto, like, go out and about meeting people.
Who's gonna ask someone onJacked, like, to take me around?

Oh, back in the day, I think it's changed tremendously
over the years, and the gay nightlifescene I think has really blossomed.
But back in the day, I remember like,like, back then, And it wasn't even that
long ago, but just 10 years ago, I thinkit was still very, like, hush hush,
not that many spaces, and overall, Ithink at that time, like, Taiwan wasn't

(04:16):
as developed as it is now, either.
Now, like, it's actuallyexpensive in some parts.
Yeah.
Like, really, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But back in the day, I remember Iwould be able to go out with my mom,
grab breakfast for, like, a few bucks.
Now, I think it's just like, there's somuch, yeah, but I'm sure the experience

(04:38):
is also different for folks living there.
I was also reading about the origins ofyour name and a big part of it I read
is also giving homage and heritage toyour Taiwanese roots as well, right?

Yeah, so my drag name, Ms.
Shumai, when I first started drag,I didn't really have a drag name.
Yet, until I was preparing for myfirst performance when my name was
supposed to be labeled onto a flyer,in a sense, so I was just, I was
just kind of cross dressing forfun, you know, dabbling, exploring

(05:14):
gender expression, and performing.
Once I had the opportunity to perform,my name had to be on a flyer, so
I was like, Steven, can I curse?

Yeah.

I was like, shit, fuck, I need to be on, my name's gotta be
on a flyer, I gotta figure out a name.
And so I had a, my original name is justlike, it was like stupid based off of
like my government name, you know, it waslike that or that stupid thing that when
it went around online where it's likeyour pet's name and then the street you
lived on, you know, it was like variationsof very uncreative things like that.

(05:49):
Very unfunny.
And then, so I was like, this ain't it.
This ain't it.
I was in rehearsal with my backup dancers.
Um, as I mentioned to you before, I am achoreographer and a dancer before drag.
And so I was like, well, if I'mgoing to do a performance, I'm going
to give them what I know how to do.
And which is a choreographed dance set.

(06:09):
And so I was in rehearsal with my dancers.
I was like, I still needto figure out a drag name.
And this is like in between teaching,like we had just like grabbed waters.
And I was like, I turned toone, I was like, I kind of want
my name to be like Kim Chi.
Cause this is like rightafter season eight, I think.
Again, like Kim Chi's name was like in thein the, um, zeitgeist, if you will, um,
I was like, I kind of want my name to belike kimchi, like a food item, but that

(06:32):
can also sound like a girl's name, but myculture, and like I said, my bloodline is
Cantonese, and so dim sum originates from,is a Cantonese cuisine, and so I was like,
what if my name was Shumai, and then I hadlike a light bulb moment with one of my
dancers, and bam, the rest is herstory.

Mm.
Is your favorite f uh, dim sum.

You know, it became that way because of my namesake, but growing
up I was such a picky a motherfucker.
Whenever, whenever we went to Dim Sum,I would ask for, you know, the, uh,
do you speak Mandarin, by the way?

Yeah a little
bit.
Yeah.

Okay.
The, the *unable to translate*the, the rice noodle rolls.

Oh,
yeah.
Oh, everyone.
Oh my God.
Everyone loves, yeah.
Yeah.
When I was the tomon,when the rice roll, when

I was, when I was, I was such a, I was such a little bitch.
I would ask them, I was, I would likethrow a fit if my parents didn't order it.
Just the, just the fun, justthe noodles and the soy sauce.
No ship.

Yeah.
For listeners, it's a, it'sbasically a sheet of rice and
then you just like roll it up.
And I think especially for kidsand why kids love it is it's
chewy, it's simple, and you justseason it however you want it.
You want soy sauce on it, hoisinsauce for a little sweetness.
And then I think when they get a littletoo advanced with the like layerings

(07:49):
of all this I think it just gets verycomplicated, but especially when I
bring people who haven't had dim sum.
Mm-Hmm.
. It's so funny.
They love that.
So it's like all the stuffthat all the kids love, right?
Usually adults like the firstfurry and they're like, oh yes.
But Shumai.
Do you like shumai?

Shumai?
Oh yeah.
I love it.
I love it.
I've made, I've learned tomake it a bunch of times.
I have, there's...

wow.

There's a YouTube video somewhere of me teaching people how
to make it somewhere on YouTube.
During the pandemic.
And, uh, yeah, so I'vemade it a bunch of times.
Um, it's honestly not thathard to make you just.
You just shove meat in a wrapper andcall it a day, um, and you steam it.
It's just getting thefilling texture right.
And so, yeah, I feel likethe starter dimsums are, uh,

(08:34):
like, uh, Ha Kao Siu Mai and

Yep.

Cheng Fun, which is like, you know, I feel
like those are your starters.

Mm
hmm.
Yeah.
Back to going back to just beingin drag and kind of your work, you
also talked about being a dancer.
And I'm just curious, what was kind ofthat repertoire before even going to drag?
Like, what were you doing?
What was that whole history?

Yeah.
So I started dancing late or early,depending on how you look at it.
I started in high school and Istarted, um, as a studio kid.
So you've seen Dance Moms.

Yeah.

Yeah, I was one of those kids, but a late
starter, so I wasn't that good.
Um, and so what originally got mestarted in dance, I did not, I did
not excel in any extracurricular.
I was a very stereotypical gay,where you threw any ball towards
my way, any contact sport, my way.
Just failure.
Last picked on everything.

(09:29):
And so my, uh, dance was the firstthing that really allowed me to,
like, feel confident in myself.
And it was something I just, Iknew how to copy and memorize
moves well naturally, thankfully.
And so I started doing hiphop, contemporary, jazz,
ballet, and tap at my studio.
So I've done all that.

(09:50):
I danced through thechoreography teams in college.
I did competitions, all that,um, for any listeners that are
familiar with body rock, vibe.
Big dance competitions like that.
I've, I've done them all.

Steven Wakabayashi: That's like the biggest. (10:04):
undefined

Yeah.
Yeah.
So I did a team calledNSU Modern in college.
And then after I joined Team Millennia.
Team Millennia was featured on America'sBest Dance Crew Season 2, I think?

Oh, nice.

And so that was, I mean, obviously that was like
way before I joined, but I wason that team for a little bit.
And with them, that's when I didBody Rock, which was super duper fun.
So after that, I started teachingat local studios, teaching both
hip hop, jazz, funk, um, foray intoteaching heels, which is mainly what

(10:40):
I do now, teaching heels technique.
For those of you who don't know,yes, that is now, now a style because
there is a very specific technique andstyling that is involved in performing
sexy and dancing in high heels.
And so that is how, whereI am now as a dancer.
I teach multiple classes weekly.
I choreographed for differentgigs, artists throughout.

(11:02):
I've done a few music videos.
I choreographed for one K pop idol,and I hope it is not the last.

That's awesome.
And also, for context too, in L.
A., back in the day, there wasreally not that much popularity for
Asian folks going into dance too.
And I feel like a lot of itwas very white dominant, and

yeah

also got into dance like very, very, very late, and

You're a
dancer too?

Yeah, I danced back in the day.

What the
heck?
I did not know that.

Ballet and Contemporary, and I was very up in it.

Oh, Technique!
She's a Technique girl.
Yes.
Love it.

And then, uh, my TLDR is I tried to go professional,
and this was back in San Diego, andthat's where a lot of the Dance Moms
kids are, you know, and I just couldn'tget gigs, because people were like,
well, you're Asian, like, I know.
And this was like 2010, Yeah.
2000.
And, you know, you would audition formusic videos and people were like,

(12:07):
well, we're not looking for ethnic,you know, I was like, what do you mean?
And there's just one occurrenceit was the most humiliating.
I went to an audition and then the,um, the director at the time was like,
you know what, Steven, we'd like, wedon't have a job for you here, but
we're going to together brainstormthings you could audition for.

(12:30):
And they're like, okay, well,is there like a musical for
like a school, like high school?
You could be like the nerd, you couldbe, and so it was about like 30 people
in a room together ideating thingsI should be auditioning for instead.

That's...

and I was like,

oh honey,
the racism, my god.
That's crazy.
I'm sorry.
Oh my God.

Yeah.
And it was just one of thosethings also coming out of needs.
I couldn't get gigs.
I was, um, dancing at the gay bars.
Like it was not
cute.

You were a GoGo?

Yeah

I love it.
As someone who, as a drag queen who

As needs arise.

I work with Go Go's all the time.
I love it.
I love it.

Uh, And it's just one of those things that, you
know, has since pivoted, but I do,I was between a rock and a hard
place where it just, I was trying sohard and it was just not happening.
And it was just one of those thingsthat, and sometimes I still take, you
know, dance classes here in New YorkCity, technique is not there anymore,
I'm not as flexible, it's just.

(13:39):
It's definitely a differentplace, but I always have a lot
of admiration for it, especiallyAsian folks in the dance community.
Yeah,

Honestly, that I hadn't had a specific
experience like the one you had.
I'm sorry.
That is very fucked up.
That that happened to you.
That is absolutely insane.
Maybe you should go back tohigh school and be a nerd.
The fuck?
Okay.

They're like, it's, you're going to be popular.
There's going to be alot of roles for you.

I can't, that is, that's just, that's stupid.
Okay.
Um, but yeah, I, I feel like my experiencekind of echoes because I was really
trying after college, I was really,I was obviously very into the dancing
and I really wanted to go professional.
Professional being like being signedwith an agent, you know, being booked for

(14:25):
music videos and stuff like that, which,you know, I still did without an agent.
You don't need an agent necessarilyor to be, you don't need
representation necessarily to bea successful dancer necessarily.
It helps, but it's not necessary.
And at the time when I was really intotraining and auditioning and whatnot, I
think that, I was at a point where one,it really felt like, yes, there were

(14:49):
some, I was obviously maybe one of a few,like a handful of Asians out of Asians.
I wasn't the only one, butI was one of a handful.

It was very sparse during that time.
This was like,

This was
like 2015, 16, that era, that time.
And so it was, it was one sparse.
Two, I think at the time, I alsohad dance, obviously, when going
professional, very gendered, right?
If you're a boy, it's expectedthat you dance very masculine,

(15:23):
you have a certain type of build.
Even if, like, you're gay and do,like, jazz funk and, like, can do all
the tour choreography, there's still alevel of masculinity that is expected
of you, and as someone with, withmaybe one to two masculine bones in
my body, I've always felt like I wasauditioning at like cosplaying something

(15:43):
I'm not and trying to dance up toan expectation that I'm that like to
someone that's inauthentic to myself.
Yeah.
Because that's what teachershad told me to do in classes.
Right.
Because that's what the need was.
That's how I think nowadays it'sa little bit more accepting.
I went to an auditionfor a queer talent group.

Yeah.

When was this?
A few years ago?
It might've been right before thepandemic, but there was a, there
was a heels audition categorythat was like open gender.
And I was like, Oh, slay.
I love that.
I attended.
Didn't, didn't make any cuts.
It's fine.
The only boys they took werepeople who could do both who did
both categories kind of a thing.

(16:22):
So I get it, whatever marketabilitybut I think why long story short, I
kind of I gave up auditioning becauseI was just like too tired of it.
I was tired of kind of puttingmyself in boxes to try and
like vie for a job in a sense.
And that's kind of what, at that pointis how I found drag and drag kind

(16:46):
of fell into my lap because it wasnot only a way for me to use dance
as a way to celebrate my femininity.
Um, it was also a way to kindof create my own stardom.
It was a way for me to tell my ownstories while utilizing dance on
top of utilizing other art forms.
And be able to celebrate my story, tellmy experience in an interdisciplinary way.

Steven Wakabayashi: Yeah, same thing, right? (17:11):
undefined
Where it's almost out of necessity, butit becomes something that saved you in
a way, allows you to create this work.
What does drag mean to you?
After having done it for so manyyears, where are you now with it?

I mean, I think, my answer with that kind of varies.
I feel like for when you're reallybusy working at some points, drag
drag means so many things to me.
When you're burnt out,drag means a paycheck.
Unfortunately, right?
Like you said, out of necessity, butI think, you know, when talking about

(17:51):
it like this, It reminds me of one,the reason why I do what I do, and
it really, drag to me really meansliberation and community building.
It's being able to do numbers that reallyresonate with an audience member, and
hopefully allow a sense of freedom andliberation in them by seeing what I do.

(18:15):
Saying that you can do this too.
You can be a queer Asian andcelebrate your femininity, celebrate
your sensuality, not in a waythat is fetishized, but in a way
that is fully embracing of you.
So I guess, yeah, dragto me means liberation.

Do you have a particular favorite moment?
of whether you're performing or havingdone something that during that moment
it just reminded you like, I absolutelylove what I'm doing, reminded you
about the beauty and the creativity and

Yeah,
oh, it's hard to pick one exact moment.
I think one thing that really standsout to me is, as you mentioned when
introducing me, I am the co producerand founder of Send Nudes Party, which
is LA's longest running API drag show.
We really try and make it an intentionalspace that celebrates queer and trans

(19:14):
API folks, building together thequeer API community and uplifting
drag performers who don't have theopportunity to do numbers that are
like celebrating their, their culture.
And being able to showcase that to anaudience that'll get it, um, because
it's one thing to cater your numbertowards a general C white audience and

(19:37):
do like a top 40 songs that's gonnamake money versus like, oh, I'm gonna
do a number that's like very specificto my culture, but someone, multiple
people in the audience are gonnaget it and feel very seen by that.
And so that is the space that we create.
The intention is also that wecreate a home for our community.
And we've had so many of our folkscome out to us saying that they didn't

(19:59):
think that out of going to a drag show,they would have a healing experience,
that they would feel at home and that.
This is one of the places where folks,even whether they are recently out,
whether they're just new to LA and are,you know, are navigating both their
identity and trying to find community.

(20:19):
This is a place where we've had folkscome and they get to meet new friends
and create communities from our show.
And so I think, I think that's oneof my proudest moments is being able
to create this for my community.
And hopefully we are, weare continuing to do so.

No, I mean, that's a big deal, just producing a show.
I think sometimes people aren't even awareof, even if a show is like, what, an hour
or two hours long, it goes multitudesof hours into preparation, right?
You're sourcing the talent, makingsure that they show up, right?
You're booking music, uh, musicians,DJs for just like background

(21:00):
entertainment, foreground entertainment,getting all your numbers rehearsed.
I have a ton of friends who also dodrag and, um, the amount of work that
goes into prepping just a three, fiveminute piece, people aren't even aware.
And I think it's just shows so muchcommitment to the work, the, the love

(21:21):
of it, you know, and even just beingable to perform and putting on face,
I feel like the work leading up toit, people sometimes take for granted.
And I have to just say for, especially forlisteners, it's so much work goes into it.
And thus, Especially when you see dragperformers, you got to tip them, you got
to throw that cash everywhere, um, andsometimes, uh, especially in working with

(21:47):
venues, they don't pay the performersenough, and I think, especially with
Drag Race, I think it's definitely helpedto put drag on the map for many folks,
but you'll be surprised, right, where,um, the RuPaul girls are paid 10, 100x.

Oh yeah.

Compared to, you know, The city girls who
actually are the lifeblood of allthe cities that they contribute to.
Right.

Unfortunately, being a drag queen under capitalism is
uh hard, but yeah, so to all of ourlisteners, support your local drag
performers, not just your queens either.
Don't just support the drag queens.
There are, I, there's been some.
I mean, it's an ever going conversationwhere drag kings don't get as much
support and recognition as they deserve,so support your drag kings too, okay?

(22:35):
Um, and if you are a drag performer,and you're producing a show, and
there are only queens in the show,You might want to think twice.

Yeah.

Working with venues is, um, when it works, it works, but when
it's a pain, it's, it's such a pain.
A lot more, most of my, like,higher paying gigs aren't
in nightlife that I've had.
The nightlife gigs are the ones thatare more consistent because obviously,
like, you know, People go out, andthat's where there's a demand, but

(23:08):
the more higher paying gigs havebeen like the one off things I do for
like, big events, corporations, etc.
So

Uh, I'm not too entirely tapped into the L.
A.
scene, more so here in New York City,but I'm just curious, how has it been?
Over the years, how has it evolvedsince you've been creating spaces,
bringing communities together?
What have you been seeing?

Well, I think that we found Send Nudes because we were
tired of being token, like the tokenAsian in every single cast, right?
And so I think that Us being one of thefirst, we're now not the only, thank
God, only like queer, Asian, night event.

(23:54):
I say night because we're not,my show is not always at night.
Currently, we are doing a dragdim sum at Chifa, a Chinese
Peruvian restaurant in Eagle Rock.
That's awesome.
And yeah, it's really, really cool.
And we sell out every time.
So if you're listening to this,um, Be sure to follow and get some
tickets because we sell out fast.
So yeah, uh, we've been doing branchmore recently, but, uh, we're not the

(24:15):
only ones, but at the time, it reallyfelt so important for us to exist because
it's just so much, it feels so much moreat home when you're within community.

Yeah.

Versus when you're at a gig with like, you know, just, uh, it, not to
say that I don't enjoy doing those gigs.
Obviously, I love performingin all types of shows.
But there's something very specialabout performing for your community,
your chosen family, etc, etc.
So, how the drag scene has kind ofchanged, like I said, there's now

(24:49):
more queer API spaces, which is great.
I think that After the pandemic, therehas been a birth of more track performers
too, because lots of people had, were, hada lot of time inside to explore . Yeah.
We had a lot, we, we've, we've had alot more talent, a lot more shows, but

(25:10):
also because of that, I think workingwith venues has been a little bit more
difficult because there have been a lotof venues closing down business may or
may not have been very, very great and so.
It's like, great because there'sso much drag, but I feel like in
LA, I was talking to my friend, uh,Rock, Rock M Sakura from Drag Race.

(25:32):
Uh, she mentioned to me that doingdrag in LA kind of feels like
You're doing drag to get a bag.
And I'm like, you know what?
Yeah.
No wonder I'm so burnt out.
Cause I feel like, cause she is from SF.
She did drag a lot in San Francisco.
And I think there, how she explainedit was that there were, it felt a

(25:54):
lot more artistically fulfilling ina sense, versus here it's like, do
a good number, get a lot of, get alot of money and then look fabulous.
You know, that's it.
And so not to say that therearen't performers that are like
pushing boundaries and doing somereally, really cool shit here.
There are obviously that, but theenvironment has not been as conducive

(26:16):
to, you know, putting together.
And this also might be because I'vebeen in the game for a while now.
I, I started drag back in 2016, moredoing more performances in like 2017.
So it's been, you know,a good amount of time.
I think there's also like that.
That puberty you get when you firststart and get good at a skill Where you

(26:39):
where there's so much energy that and andvelocity Yeah, maybe it's because I've
been in this for a while that I don'tfeel, I feel a little bit more burnt
out from it, from like really reallypushing and coming up with some cool shit.
Not that I, not that I don't comeup with cool shit nowadays, it just
feels like I had, I was burstingat the scenes with things I wanted
to do without like necessarily theexperience and skill set and resources.

(27:02):
Now it's the opposite.
I have the skill set, the resources,and experience, but not the energy.

I mean, you're coming up on almost 10 years.
If you think about it,
. Miss Shu Mai: Oh my god.
. Steven Wakabayashi: You.
Say it.
Like

what?

Oh

my God.

Yeah.
It's almost your, shemight turn ink this year.

Yeah.

Growing up so fast, my

forehead just started sweating.
Oh my God.

Yeah.

Jesus.

But you know, I, I have to say.
Thank God for handheld fans.

Oh
girl, if you don't, if youdon't have a handheld fan!
I would like to givethe audience a pro tip.
I'm currently holdinga black handheld fan.
This is how I get my eyelashesto dry in the correct place.
Yeah, I don't know how to puton eyelashes without this, so.

No, it's the best thing.
Especially when it's hot and you'rejust melting and you can only
wave a handheld fan so long likethe clickety clack ones, but the
electronic ones that just USB charge.
Game changer.

They are.
I want a stronger one.
I feel like there's a stronger oneon the market than the one I have.

Well, now you see the ones that are necklaces,
and they just put it on their neck.
Have you seen that?
And it just shoots the air up.
I bought that,

and then I tried wearing it, and then I forgot.
I wear it while I'm in drag, and I havehair that gets caught in the vents, so.
I feel like I would need,like, the blades, those, the,
like, the bladeless ones.
That's just, like, a hole that blows out.
A hole that blows out that's not myself.
Um, yeah, I've seen drag queenswith that, like wearing that around.
Um, yeah, but yeah, dragis not a summer sport.

(28:48):
It's now starting to get warm inLA and I'm glad to not be freezing.
Freezing like I'm in, likeI freeze in LA, but like,
What?
Like that's not crazy cold,but it's cold and now it's L.
A.
cold.
It's different.
It's different.
But yeah, now it's about to getwarm and I'm, I'm about to be

(29:09):
sweating my entire face off.

Yeah.
I'm curious as, especially you'redoing work and getting involved in
the community and you just mentioned,you know, there's this giant influx of
drag queens and I'm sure we have somelisteners also starting to dabble in it.
I'm curious if you have any advicefor maybe folks just starting to
dip in, but also thinking about howdo I get involved in the community

(29:37):
and be a part, a contributingmember as a part of this larger drag
community Do you have any thoughts?
Do you have any tips?
Advice?

I think if there's one thing I always tell folks when they're
first starting in drag And what helpedme is just really nerd out about it.
I feel like with, drag race being likenow the gold standard of drag, right?
Yes, it's elevated what dragcan be, which is incredible and
elevated what the art can be.

(30:08):
There's also just like, the girls aretaking out loans to be on the show to
pull these like incredible looks, right?
You don't need to do that whenyou're first starting out.
The one thing in any kind of artform you can do to really shoot
yourself in the foot is put too muchpressure on yourself to be good.

Perfect,

right?
You, you, you gotta be crunchybefore you can get cunty, okay?
I was very crunchy when I firststarted, and you all have to be crunchy.
Embrace the crunchy, nerd outabout it, and keep practicing,
and Keep practicing what interestsyou about the art form of drag.
Maybe it is the makeup.

(30:48):
That's what got me into it because Igot really, really interested in makeup.
Instead of brushing my teeth, I wouldbrush half my teeth, walk out of the
room with half my face contoured.
You know, like, I would just, I wouldjust end up practicing makeup just
because, you know, the bug took me over.
Let the bug take you over, not COVID.
Let the interest take you over.

(31:08):
If it's sewing, if it's wigstyling, if it's dancing, if
it's, uh, you know, if it's justperforming, you know, whatever it is.
Let that bug take you over.
In terms of like how to get involved,go to your local shows, go to I think
that one of this might be a littleI mean, it's not necessarily dated

(31:31):
per se But it is helpful, especiallywhen you're first starting out.
Go out to shows, go in dragto shows So that way one Meet
the host, meet the producers.
As a host myself, if someone comesto my show in drag, I'm always
very, very happy to meet them.
Especially, and this is biasedbecause I produce in API Drag Show.

(31:52):
If you, if you, if youidentify as that, I love
to meet you,
you know.
And especially because my show, I verymuch so want it to be a place for people
to debut their performances, right?
And because, yeah, it would be, it's sospecial to be able to debut your art form
to, you know, your own community, right?

(32:15):
So, I would love to meet you andany producer, unless they're really
stingy, hoity toity, they would alsolove to meet other performers too.
Don't be shy.
Let them know that you're new to dragand you would love to start performing.
If they don't want you fortheir show, that's fine.
They'll probably be ableto tell you who they are.
Start following, make a drag Instagram,follow other drag performers.

(32:39):
I don't know if Instagram is supermillennial of me to say, but if the, I
think it's a still a good way that I,I connect and book things with people.
So.
Yeah, so make an Instagram, get yourcontent out there, um, even if it's
just photos, reels of you posing,doing a pandemic style performance at

(32:59):
home, you know, whatever it is, putyour stuff out there, don't be shy.

Yeah, you gave a whole business 101, the crash course for
drag, and I guess what else was in it?
I don't know, it was

Atmos Jumai.

Yes.
Drag 101 Masterclass.
You heard it here.
My takeaway from what I, what reallyresonated was you gotta start somewhere
and just get out there and that.
Art is also so subjective, you know?

Oh yeah.

And I feel like sometimes with RuPaul and
all the girls there, I mean a bigcritique, right, is it's all fitting
this type of drag, whereas drag islike the whole spectrum, you know?
Right.
And I think sometimes we forgetthat Art is so much of what you

(33:53):
want to bring into the world.
It could be something that youthink is missing, you know?
And I love, especially nowadays,people are truly embracing
their culture as a part of drag.

Yes.

And bringing it forth in the shape that they want it to come up.

Yeah.

And I think that's what's with a lot of
creative careers, you know?
Oftentimes I think what holds usback from being truly creative,
I find, is perfectionism.
Do you struggle with perfectionism?

I'm a Virgo.
What do you think?
? Yeah.
. All the Virgos.
I'm a Virgo.
What do you think?
And that's why I know best in saying thatthese are battles that I, I'm constantly
fighting and sometimes losing at.
Yeah.
But at the same time.
I know that it's okay to be bad andI'm, I think for me also as an artist

(34:44):
who, you know, drag and dance arenot only my lifeblood, they're also
my, what's the word I'm looking for?
It's uh, my, my, my means ofsource of income and that too.
Um, but yes, when I will saythat for me personally, when your

(35:06):
art also becomes your job, yourrelationship to it kind of changes.
Because if someone has ever toldyou, do something you love and
you'll never have to work a dayin your life, that's bullshit.
We all live under capitalism.
We all need to survivein this shit, you know?
So that's bullshit.
If you're an artist and you dowork, you deserve to be compensated.

(35:28):
For your work and your experience, period.
And guess what, if you'regetting paid for it, it's work.
It doesn't matter.
If you love it, that's a bonus.
Right?
And so, yes, of course, I love what I do.
I think also for me, I've beentrying to dabble into other creative
mediums in order to combat burnout.
And so, like, I startedlearning how to draw recently.

(35:52):
And shit's crunchy.
And that I'm learningto be okay with that.
And, you know, follow the bug whenthe inspiration hits, follow the
inspiration bugs when they hit.
Um, I also, you know, Idabbled in voice acting.
I dabbled in singing, streamedLuckier, my, my Lunar New
Year single, um, on Spotify.
Don't have that high expectations.

(36:13):
We'll put the link in the

show notes.

But the music video and the dance practice are also out on YouTube.

Oh, that's awesome.

So yeah, like I dabbled in a bunch of other things.
And so I think because I've done,I've done, I've put myself in so
many new artistic situations, thefear of being, of not being perfect.
You know, I can fight it faster.
You can fight it fasteronce you do it enough.

Steven Wakabayashi: Trying new things, right? (36:40):
undefined
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's scary, but it's worth it on the other side
because fear and excitement areThe same coin, but different size.

Oh,

I love,

I love that frame too.

Yeah.

Um, that sometimes physiologically
it's the same thing, really.
It's an interpretation of it.
Exactly.

Exactly.
Your heart goes boom, boom,your pit starts sweating.
And you're like, Oh God,what's gonna happen?
Or you could be like, OhGod, what's gonna happen?
So they're the same parts, the same parts.

I love that.
And I feel like especially when welayer in different identities that are
especially marginalized, subjugated herein the West, in our instance, right?
The more we are put on apedestal to be perfect, you know?

Absolutely, absolutely.

Being queer, being Asian, especially in the Asian community.
I feel like there's noroom for gay or straight.
You better not mess up, right?
Yeah,

yeah.
And I think in the, in entertainment,there's like, you know, I think how
we know we have made it is that whenwe can celebrate our mediocrity is
something I've heard in the zeitgeist.
You know, there's obviously,yes, support Asian excellence.
Support.
POC Excellence, Support Black Excellence.
Yeah.
But we know we made it when, youknow, cause the white folks can

(38:06):
be mediocre and they're great.
And like, they can make a, theycan make a big, they can make a big
buck and get all these accolades.
But we can't do the same.
Not yet.

Mm hmm.
Oh my god, there's so much unpack there.
But it's, especially when you see,like, white folks on social media.
Like, they're like, oh, we'resuch a bad graphic designer.
And everyone laughs.
I'm like, how do you know they're good?
Like, how do you know thisis the epitome of their work?
Like, what's the joke?

(38:36):
Is the joke, aha, this is socrunchy, it must not be them.
And I'm like No, there's alot to unpack here, you know?
Like, I don't think anyone whoisn't white can easily do something
like a terrible job, right?
And people think it's humor.
Right.
They just brandish you as justbeing untalented and Right.

(38:57):
I find that also the tough part withalso, I love your frame about championing
mediocrity for our own community, becauseit's not as crunchy as it sounds where,
you know, I think excellence were alsothen put on this ladder where unless
you're excellent and making millionsand millions, you're also worthless,
when in fact, you should be able to doanything to whatever degree and enjoy it.

(39:23):
survive off of it.
Um, and sometimes we, I, I love thatreframe where it's just like the
crunchiness is so important too.

Yeah.
Captain crunch.

Exactly.
Eat it up.

Destroy the roof of your mouth.
Eat it up.

It does.
I'm curious, um, especially inthe work that you do with your
show and your community, whathas that done for you personally?
What has it brought you?
Yeah.
I think.

I mean, drag has really, drag has really given me purpose, I
feel, because, like, there, there'sthat one chart that's been, that goes
around on the internet here and there,where it's like something that makes
you money, something you love to do,and something that helps others, and
in that intersection, Hikigai, yes.
You speak Japanese too, right?

Yes, I do.

I do too.
I studied it in high school.
Oh.
Yeah.
Oh.
I have family in Yokohama as well.

Oh, nice.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
When I grew up in LA, uh, my fatherput me through Asahi Gakuen, which
is like a Saturday magnet school forJapanese kids where, I've never talked
podcast, but you go off on a Saturdayand this is for Japanese businessmen
traveling or the ones in LA thatare like, you have to be Japanese.

(40:44):
You're there from literally 8amuntil like 5, 6pm and they teach you.
Grammar, uh, history, math, science, allthe subjects all in Japanese, and you're
not allowed to speak English on schoolcampus, and then you get like written
up, if, I know, it was, so Japanese,like, it's still there, which is good,

(41:06):
but it's a little traumatic, like, I,

I, yeah, you got it, you had an extra day of school, and
it was like, Militant, it sounds like.

Yeah.
And then I remember my mom, whenshe signed me up for a Chinese
school on Sunday, I was a kid,like six, seven at the time.
I literally had a, likea mental breakdown.
I started crying.
I was like, I can't do this.
Cause then, you know, they all,they give you homework on like the
Saturday school for the next Saturday.
And then Chinese school gives youhomework for the subsequent Sunday.

(41:37):
And I was literally like, whenam I going to do homework?
Like when?

That's so much to put on a kid.

And then my mom after two weeks, she's like, okay, you're good.
Like no Chinese
school.

Oh my gosh.
Yeah.

Did your parents put you through school?

I did.
I went through Saturday Chinese.
I did a Saturday weekend Chineseschool that I threw a fit and
quit after six years of doing it.
Yeah.

I
mean, that's still you troopedthrough the bulk of it.

Right, and I think, I mean, my literacy in Mandarin is like, not
great whatsoever because obviously I quit.
Yeah.
But I think I can speak it pretty well.
I live in, um, basically Arcadiaright now, so like, I use my
Mandarin very often to speak withanyone who is working in this area.
And so, I think I speakpretty, I speak okay.

(42:28):
It's not bad.
I speak, I speak fluentABC, is what I say.
Yes.

Say, say, when I go to Taiwan, it's like, English
words that I'm like, I don't thinkthey understand, but this is, this
is how it's just going to go down.
Right, right, right.
And did you,
did you grow up in the area?

No, no, no, no.
I actually, I'm, I'm from the Bay Area.
So I grew up in Fremont, which is, Acity that is as Asian as the 6 2 6.
So moving here feels likeI'm at home, but in la.
So that's why I moved here.
One, because I obviously wanted to bearound my people, but more importantly,
two, I moved here dur, like afterthe, yeah, not after the pandemic.

(43:09):
I hate, I hate the term postpandemic because guess what?
I still have a job with the COVIDdepartment in the public health.
So it's not gone.
It's not gone.
I still have a job.
Yes.
But like, especially with the risein Asian hate crimes because of COVID
and rise in LGBT hate crimes, right?
I was, I was living in like LA properand I was like the only queer and

(43:30):
only Asian in my neighborhood and Ifelt very targeted a lot of the time.
So to the point where I would drive toAlhambra from Culver City to grocery shop.
And I was like, whydon't I just move here?
So I did.

Yeah, it's a, it's definitely a beautiful Asian Mecca.
Oh, yeah, and it just expanded over time.
I feel like literally.
Yeah.

Oh, yeah.
I love it here

What keeps you going?
What keeps you inspired?
What keeps you in it?

I think one of the main things that keeps me going is the
community is knowing that I createspaces that bring people together and
On like the very surface level, peoplecome together to like, have a good
time, and be able to like, enjoy things,and at the same time, even though that

(44:22):
feels surface level, that's so needed,there's a need for that space, because
without that, without entertainment,and without art, we don't have breath.
That's what keeps a lot of ourlivelihood, and makes life worth living.
living in a sense, right?
Is that we get spaces toconnect with our community.
We get to see things that moveus and make us feel, right?

(44:46):
It's necessary.
And so I think not only do I get to createspaces and make people feel, I also know
that this is like my purpose to do this.
It's my purpose in this world tobe someone that provides even just
an ounce of liberation to someone.
Allow someone to bemore free in themselves.

(45:07):
If I can provide that, and that'ssomething that I know I can provide
to people, that's what I do.
And that's who I am everywherethat I step in life.
As a dance teacher, I make surethat you're in a space where
you're able to celebrate your body.
And if you walk out of the room, Knowingthat you felt just a little bit more free
in your body to celebrate your femininityand sensuality, you did your job.

(45:28):
If you leave one of my showshaving felt more lightness, more
having laughed, having been movedby me performing or by any of the
performances, then I did my job.
That, that's what really keeps megoing is that this is something
that I provide to the world.

(45:48):
There's no Other way Iknow of myself to be.
There's nothing surer thatI've ever known of myself that
I'm put on this world to do.

I love that.
What does liberation then look likefor you or the future of liberation?
What does that look like for you?

I mean, I think the future of liberation is, I think
especially right now when we talkabout liberation, we, we have to talk
about those most marginalized, right?
My liberation does not exist withoutthe liberation of Palestine, Congo,
Sudan, and it does not exist withoutthe liberation of all marginalized

(46:30):
communities all around the world, right?
It's, it's not just race,it's not just queerness, it's
very, it's all intersectional.
So what does liberation mean to meis like, that's a hard question
to answer because I think rightnow we're really seeing So much bad
shit happening that we, it feelslike we can only do so much, right?

(46:52):
There's liberation of peoples all over.
There's liberation in self, in beingable to unlearn the ways that we
disallow celebration, the ways that wedisallow authenticity to shine through.
It's unlearning the ways we dull theshine and the light that we have because

(47:14):
every single one of us are stars andthat's something that I truly believe
and we all have the capacity to bethat in whatever capacity we choose.
So that's what liberationmeans like to me.
It means a lot of thingsthat are both macro.
Across communities, internationalas well as interpersonal.

It's, it's, uh, we're all together, you know,
and I, I really appreciate yourvery optimistic view as well.
And I'm just curious, especially indealing with these topics which can feel
really heavy, right, and also with therise of doom scrolling and existential
dread is what they're calling it, whereit's just like, you're spiraling, you

(47:57):
know, like, oh my gosh, I'm curious,one, have you always carried a sense of
optimism with yourself, throughout thiswork and to especially in navigating
this work and continue to do it.
How have you been able to keepyourself with a level head to stay?
Going through this work.

(48:18):
Yeah.

I think community is really important.
I think for me, what keeps me level,not in a way where it's like pushing the
emotions down in a sense, but knowingthat I'm there for and there with my
community and that these are there.

Mmm.

These are things that we collectively feel together.
There's so much, there'shealing and collective feeling.
And so I think that knowing that hasreally kept me level headed knowing that
I don't like putting community leaderslike a label on myself, but you know, I
do organize a lot of community spaces.
And I think knowing that the people whocome to our shows are people who also

(49:06):
do great work in the community as welland we provide a space for them as well.
We provide a space for folks to sharetheir platforms and, you know, to
galvanize folks to take actions...
for the greater good as well.
And I think it's hard.
It's also very important thatone, yes, community is important.
It's important to getout there in community.

(49:26):
It's also very important for oneto acknowledge hurt and acknowledge
feeling and not to push past.
Because to push past implieslike you are skipping over a
feeling that should have happened.
And I always think that the onlyway out of an emotion is through.

(49:50):
And so if you have to cry and you have to,if you have to doom scroll, doom scroll.
If you have to be in yourdread, be in your dread.
But I'll say those that will pass,try not to stay there that long.

I love that.
That's very Virgo.
Is it?
Fuck.
Just go through it.
Just get

I'm like, but there, there really is no way out, but going
through that emotion and allowingyourself to feel the emotion.

Yeah.

Like none of us are workhorses.
None of us have to be on 100%.

Yeah.

Like, and it's okay to rest and take breaks as much as you
can, because capitalism drains us.
And, you know, we all have

Yeah.

We all have mana.
We all have.

Mm-Hmm.

a finite amount of resources and energy and capacity.
If your mana is low, you gotta refillyour mana in the way that you can.
Yeah.
If your alt is on cooldown, it's on, cool down.
You can't do shit about that.
But, but, but, but put someblack emblems and have some cool
down reduction items, you know?
. Steven Wakabayashi: Yes.
I'm curious.
Um, well, I want to just,uh, highlight, I think.

(51:00):
What I'm also taking away is being honestand being open about it without judgment.
And I think a big part of whatyou're saying, right, where you're
pushing it down, is also thissense of you have to be somewhere,
you have to feel something else.
And I really love that.
authentic perspective of yourown emotion as a way to process.

(51:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You have to be honest withyour own emotions to be able
to deal with them, right?
It's a scary thing to do also, you know,it's a scary thing to, and also sometimes
you're not ready to feel the weight andthe reality of things and that's okay too.
And that's okay too.
And that can be in regards tothe shit that America's doing.

(51:46):
It could be in regards to, you know, allthe struggles and the war crimes that are,
the atrocities happening across the world.
It could also be the feelings thatyou have as you go through your day
to day, as you are, uh, unlearningand unpacking the layers to what
becomes authentically you, be itinternalized racism, be it internalized

(52:07):
femme phobia, homophobia, etc.
You know, we are all constantlyunlearning those things.
And so, it's important to behonest and gentle with yourselves.

Yeah, definitely.
How has your relationshipwith your identity and culture
evolved while doing this work?

I think that drag has been one of the biggest ways for me to
play and explore and discover genderidentity, gender expression, and be
more at home in my body, as well asa way to connect with my culture.
I don't think I've beenout of my comfort zone.
I've never been as Asian as I am untilI found Shu Mai, like, I think, and

(52:53):
it's, I, I speak with this knowingthat I come from a place of privilege,
knowing that I grew up in Fremont.
I grew up in a high school where,like, most of my friends were Asian.
And so, like, I speakfrom a place of privilege.
You know, not, I wasn't necessarilyalways shamed for being Asian.
And, but at the same time,assimilation is still a thing.

(53:18):
Hating yourself for beingAsian is still a thing, right?
Even, even when you'resurrounded by Asians.
Like so many Asians, which like, you know,for like, I have deep set in forehead.
They're not that deep, but I haveforehead lines because I thought my eyes
were too like Asian looking and small.
So I would constantly go like thiswhen I was a kid, you know, that's
just one way that it kind of manifestedas it, that plays with queerness.

(53:42):
Right?
I think that being queer specifically froman Asian American experience, it's also
really, really difficult because that kindof thing is not very talked about often.
I'm glad things are a little bitbetter now, but it's still back when
I was, it kind of feels like you can'tbe Asian and queer at the same time.

(54:07):
I mean, obviously, yes, youcan, but it's like, it feels
like, how do these make peace?
How do these identities makepeace with each other in a sense?
And that's kind of what draghad really allowed me to do was
to celebrate my queerness andAsian-ness in the same breath.
I think the biggest thing for me andmy favorite thing to do with my drag
is to be able to Celebrate culturalholidays in a queer way, which is how

(54:30):
I have become the Lunar New Year Queenof Los Angeles, as people have said.
One of my sisters, Kylie Mooncakes inSeattle, she said that I'm like Mariah
Carey but for Lunar New Year's, whichis like so stupid, but very funny.
That's funny, yeah.
Yeah, I think, I think for me it's like..

(54:53):
when coming out to my parents, oneof the things that they said to me
was, well, one, it was difficult.
They didn't accept it at first.
One of the things that really, that stuckout to me that my mom told me in that
conversation when I came out to them,was that, like, you know, you shouldn't

(55:14):
tell your extended family about this.
Don't tell your uncle.
And so that really made mefeel like, okay, I can't.
I can't be myself at home.
I can't be queer at home.
How do I show up at like, youknow, Lunar New Year, family
holidays, and stuff like that.
And so that's why being able to dolike queer Lunar New Year parties.

(55:38):
I think that's really, really meaningfulto be able to do that because it's not,
yes, you can go and have hot pot withyour family, but then if you're able to,
you're able to celebrate with your chosenfamily and be able to celebrate these
holidays that embrace your culture whilealso being able to be truly yourself
and step into your queerness, right?

(55:58):
And so I think that's one of my,one of the ways in which my drag
celebrates my queerness and AsianAmerican experience in the same breath.
Not everyone's Asian Americanexperience looks the same.
Um, not everyone's, you know, somepeople might have a little bit
more harder time celebrating theseholidays, which is also valid, right?

(56:22):
But, you know, I think that there's a lotof power in being able to celebrate your
own experience and your own authenticityand in a sense, drag allows me to kind
of heal that inner child and do thingsthat I always wanted to do and celebrate
myself in a way that I never knew Ineeded, but I always wanted to do.

(56:45):
In a sense, Shu Mai becamethe role model that I always
wanted to have when I was a kid.

That's beautiful.
Miss Shu Mai is saving you, practically.

Yeah,
she did, she did.
She kills me sometimes too,but she does save me sometimes.
It's a fraught relationship.
Yeah, I don't know if you feel similarly,but I think growing up without a
lot of media representation as well,as, and as a queer person, not a

Queer,
especially even queer Asian, yeah.

Queer Asians.
My role models, we're cartoon characters.

Mmmmm

Cause those were the only people that were either Asian
and or Asian coded growing up.
And I remember growing up, like,

Who were some of them?

So Sailor Moon was definitely like,
Sailor Moon made me queer.

Mhmm

And I think that a lot of people can share very similar sentiments.
Yeah.
Sailor Moon made me queer.
Okay, Dragon Ball Z made me gay and I hatethem for that because now I have such an
unrealistic expectation for, for, becauseif you're not built like Goku, don't talk.
I'm just kidding.
I'm kidding.
I'm kidding.
But like, literally my mouse padis like, like Majin Buu titties.

Oh hahahaha

This is from the artist Jamie Velasco.
This is from Jamie Velasco, based in LA.
Um, another local queer Asian artist.

That's amazing.

Like, if Dragon Ball Z made me gay, Sailor Moon made me queer.
And so, I think that I think someonewho encapsulates their authenticity,
their power, their softness, theirgrace and beauty all in one breath

Mmmm

is kind of what I wanted to be.
While also embracing theirimperfection, embracing their humor
because Sailor Moon always gotwas the butt of the joke, right?
Like she was always the butt of the joke.
She was always like the, she wasimperfectly perfect in a sense.
And so that's, I think for me, Drag, ShuMai isn't like an alter ego for me per se.
I think a lot of folks think thatdrag is like another person and

(58:51):
just like you're someone different.
Yes, I'm someone different in drag.
I feel like for me, it's like,yes, I had transformed into
my Sailor Moon version self.
Or I mega evolved or I turned super saiyanit's a temporary form that is just like
yeah I'm just on you know like my my

It's like your
elevated
self.

Exactly

you're like accentuated self.

Exactly like I got a boost to my my magic attack my
attack speed you know I'm like I'mmore confident louder and I carry my
energy differently but I'm the sameperson and you know it's disingenuous
to think of me as two differentpeople right not I'm not a Gemini.
I don't have any Gemini placements.
So , I'm just kidding.
I love you.

(59:31):
Love you.
Geminis.

There's
Scorpio

. Miss Shu Mai (59:34):
Oh, is that Scorpio Shade right there.
I love it.
. I'm just kidding.
I love my Scorpios.

Yeah, we love 'em.
We love 'em all.
. All of them too.

Yes.

all facets of them.

Yes.

Uh, that's that's beautiful.
I, I love the way you articulated that.
And just going back to, you mentioneda little bit about your family.
Yeah.
What was the relationship with that now?

Miss Shu Mai (01:00:00):
It is good now.
It is really good now.
And I will say that when I firstcame out to them as gay, it was a
spur of the moment decision for me.
The conversation did notgo really, really well.
They were both very, very shocked.
It came out of left field, um, becauseAsian immigrant parents, you know,
you might think they're, you mightthink they're smart and know things,

(01:00:22):
but you know, the denial and thehomophobia runs really, really deep.
And to this day, I'll, I'll likejokingly ask my mom because we're cool
like that now, that I'm like, whereI'll be like, you really had no idea.
And she was like, no, I really didn't.
And I'm like, girl, I was obsessed withLady Gaga and made you watch Glee with me.
What the hell did you think?
But like, you know, they don't know.

(01:00:43):
Yeah, they don't knowthese kinds of things.
So, so it was really, really hard.
My dad had the harder time accepting it.
It wasn't until like, like for a lot,like apparently he had been like,
he would like cry himself to sleep.
Wow.
Didn't never told me.
I, I found, I found out from my momlike years after, like he had kind of
felt better about it, but apparentlyhe would like, you know, be really, he

(01:01:06):
would, this really, really hurt him.

Steven Wakabayashi (01:01:08):
Yeah.

And I, you know.
That could have driven a big riftin my relationship with them, but
Surprisingly, the champion for me wasmy aunt in Hong Kong, who, like, my
dad went to for advice and basicallyshe was the one that was like, you

(01:01:29):
know, your son only has one life.
He's going to be how he's going to be.
You don't get to choose that, right?
And so I think that was the wake up call.
And I'm like, like, I haven't,I didn't even talk to her in
that long, but she did all this.
That's, that's crazy.
She's a cool aunt.
She's a real cool aunt.
She's so funny.

Oh, it came through.
Yeah.

You know, yeah, Xiaoguma came through.
It was great.
Mm

hmm.

Since then, I also, and I attribute my ability to be able
to talk to them about queerness andqueer identities to them from a very
calm, patient, and collected manner.
I attribute that to myprofessional experience.
Uh, working is as a professionalgay in a LGBT non profit.
One of my responsibilities wasdoing like LGBT competency trainings

(01:02:14):
tour for companies, healthcareproviders, et cetera, et cetera.
And so, wow.
Yeah.
With those facilitation skills.
You go into that mindset, kind of alot of explaining it's hard because
when you're explaining your identityand your community's identities to
immigrant parents who have all this, allthis like bullshit that has, you know,

(01:02:40):
that they've believed one way has tobe one way and they believe what they
believe that's been told to them andthey've been taught their whole lives.
It's hard to unpack that.
And they have to come with you withtheir biases and it can feel so much
like it's an attack directly on you.
But it's not.
It is just what they've been taughtand they're doing what they're doing.

(01:03:01):
All they know with what they have.
And so knowing that it's hard.
You really have to like take a, like asharp breath before, like you'd be like,
you'd be like, well, let's unpack that.
No, that's not correct.
Kind of a thing.
And so with that, with that patience,and it was a lot of hard conversations.
I was able to explain and I thinkthey kind of get what, what being non

(01:03:26):
binary and being queer means, whatbeing trans means, that trans is not
like the, does, is not like the finalstep in gay ascension, you know?
I

mean, kind of interesting.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah.

Like they thought, they thought that like the ultimate
gay was being trans and I'm like,

Mmmmm

I mean,

no, no,
it's not like that.

I'm like, It's not quite like that, no, but like, you know, so it's
like everyone has their own journey andhas their own identities and has, is, can
explore their own experiences and genderand sexuality are not one and the same.
They can intertwine, butit's not one and the same.
Um, and I think that for me, especiallyas someone who started doing drag, They

(01:04:12):
obviously were not happy about it toobecause obviously I was cross dressing.
Not only did I have to be gayand work in a non profit, I
also became a cross dresser.
Yeah, Asian parents worstnightmare, but I told them that,
hey, they pay me to do this.
And then they were okay with it.

Then the Asian part is like, how much?

Exactly.
Exactly.
I told them like, oh yeah, for thisnumber, they paid for, for one number.
They paid me a hundred andthey were like, that's it.
And I was like, you know what?
You're right.
I should be paid much more.

Like come backwards way of like knowing
your worth and getting your
worth.

Exactly.
And so now I think.
One of the most, like, I haven'ttalked about this in a while, so
I think the memory is now going tolike, move some emotions that had just
been stagnant for a while, but I hadlike, I was competing in a pageant
called the GAPA, called GAPA Runway.
It was a queer Asian pageant specificallycelebrating folks who, the people

(01:05:16):
competing are folks who are doing stuff,doing work to, for the LGBT community.
A lot of it, and so I competed inthe drag portion of this pageant.
and preparing for this pageant.
This was based in the Bay Area.
So I was at home for a fewweeks to do this pageant.
And this was like still myfirst few years of drag.

(01:05:38):
So a lot of my, a lotof my shit was crunchy.
It was great, but crunchy.
Uh, one of my numbers, I wasdoing a number talking, speaking
out about Asian fetishization.
At that time, I had been reallyfeeling the effects of it and had
like a lot of interactions thatreally brought that to the forefront.
And what better audience to do thatthan in San Francisco to all these

(01:06:03):
white boyfriends of Asians, right?
And so I did, I made a box outof takeout, or I made, uh, I made
a dress out of takeout boxes.
Like just stapled together, basically,um, at one point I was repairing and like
I just needed an extra hand and I waslike, I came out to my parents who like

(01:06:25):
were watching their Chinese soap operas.
Right.
And I was like, mom, can you helpme hold this while I staple this?
And then we were struggling with it.
And at that, at that point, my dad, likejust hit pause on the TV and like, both
of them were like holding together mydress, stapling together my dress to
like, Like, get it on me, and it was justlike, it was a ridiculously beautiful
moment that really felt like, wow,they're supporting and really helping

(01:06:48):
me, even after all we've been through.
They came to watch me at this pageant too,and it was their first time seeing me in
drag, seeing me perform in drag, and so

What was that like?
What was it?

Having them there was really, was really just like a testament
to how far our relationship had comebecause, I mean, not only with the
queerness, like, there was a big periodof time where I pushed my family away.
Cuz, you know, even though I, like, aslike the baby of the family, not only,

(01:07:24):
like, yes, they treated me different.
I felt like there was, theyput a lot of pressure on me.
There was a lot of, there was a bitof abuse from a family member who's
no longer a family member becausehe's divorced, that motherfucker.
But, like, there was a lot of abuse thathappened from him to me that really, a
rift between me and my whole family there.
I never felt like anything I didwas good enough for them and I

(01:07:46):
put a lot of resent on them and

yeah,

I drove a rift between my family and that was some shit
that I had to work on with them.

Yeah.

And I did, I did the work.
I, I owned up to my grievances,but I also was honest in the
ways that they hurt me as well.

Yeah, yeah.

So them being there was kind of a testament to how far our relationship
had come, moving and transforming ourrelationship in so many different ways.
Through not only the distance, thehomophobia, the coming out, like all
that journey felt like a culmination.

(01:08:27):
Them being there felt likea culmination of all that.
And so honestly thembeing there was enough.
That was a victory for me.
The sash and the crown you see backhere, that was the icing on the cake.
So...

That's a big deal.
That's a huge deal.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And to this day now,they're very supportive.
My mom will like commenton like my Instagram.
Like photos and stuff like thatbeing like, wow, so gorgeously
beautiful and stuff like that.

Yeah.

Yeah She like gave me one of her bracelets to wear
during the pageant and stuff,too she'll she's like beautiful.
She's like always buying me likethings for makeup and stuff now
so yeah, you know the the way ourrelationship transformed is like it
was not easy and I also acknowledgethat this is like something that felt
impossible for me for the longest time.

(01:09:17):
But it happened.
I will say my parents are alittle bit cooler than your
very traditional Asian parents.
I feel like they're a tiny bitmore accepting and cool in general.
Like, yes, they put me through pianoand put me through like, like S.
E.
C.
rap and Kumon, all that stuff.
But at the same time, they also werejust like, in general, a tiny bit

(01:09:37):
more accepting than your average.
And so

it took work to get there.

It took work.
It took a lot of work.
And so I'm not saying if Ican do it, you can do it.
I'm, but I'm saying that it's possible.
It was possible for me and the possibilityis there for anyone who's listening.

Yeah.
I like what you said about,um, they're doing the best
they can with what they have.
Exactly.
And especially for immigrants whohave left everything but also having
a lack of access to education,equitable education, right?

(01:10:17):
Or growing up in rural areas of the world.
How often are they talking aboutsexuality and about queerness and..
It's just so fascinating also wherethere are these ideologies, homophobia
as an ideology is also very popular incertain areas and it becomes a facet

(01:10:40):
of what people learn and I think forme too, kind of same boat where it's
just not the best relationship with mymother, when it comes to queerness, my
father passed away when I was young,but also very militant, and I'm like,
I think my mom's cooler about it, but Icould tell my father, like, especially

(01:11:00):
with men in an Asian household, right?
There's this whole, like, It's homophobic,but also there's something about like
issues with gender as well, right?

It's misogyny.

Misogyny.

It's misogyny, yeah.
Because they think gay is feminineand you can't be feminine, right?
So.

Yes, yes.
There's so many layers to it whereit's also to be Asian here in America,
you have to be almost as like macho,hyper masculine individual, right?
And it's so many layers of unpackingand I've found that as a part of just

(01:11:40):
like reconciling and doing all this ishealing not just for you, but also healing
for your parents and so many layers ofthings that were passed down to them
that they didn't even get to choose.

Right.
Yeah.
You know, that is a conversation.
I feel like if, I feel like I,if I asked them, like, what our
relationship has, like, taught them,I think that, I don't know if they
had words beyond, like, oh, you helpedme open my world up to more ideas.
But even that, that's a huge stepfor, like, immigrant parents.

Yeah.
So many layers come back, youknow, where it's, it's parents
immigrating here thinking, havinga plan in their mind, right?
This future that they think that they'regoing to get, but also you're instilled
this whole concept of a nuclear familyand this heterosexual nuclear family.
And it's just so, we talk about this inother spaces too, where it's just, you

(01:12:39):
might be the actual salvation that they'vebeen seeking because this is exactly
what was almost like meant to happen.

Right.

to give them this lesson in life that, you know, some
people who believe in karmic destiniesand future, this karmic destiny and
this future of bringing this togetherwas maybe what was meant to happen too.
Right.
Yeah.

Yeah.
I think they need, I thinkthey needed a drag queen child.
Yeah.
Um, I, I actually, I was,uh, I was an accident.
I, I was an accident.
They didn't plan to have me.

Oh, really?

Yeah.
Yeah.
My mom still won't, mymom still won't admit

makes, it makes even better.

Exactly.
I'm like, I'm like, nowit makes sense, right?
Like when you put it, bring it up tolike karmic destiny, it's like, you know,
I'm like, it's what needed to happen.
Right.
And like my, my mom had my sister who's12 years older than me, my brother,
four years later, Eight years olderthan me, had another, was pregnant
four years after my brother was born.
Miscarriage.

Yeah.

Four years later, they thought she thought she was done trying.
Had me.

Maybe it was all exactly what was meant to happen.
Yeah.
And yeah, I wonder that that couldbe an interesting conversation.

Yeah.
She will never admit it.
I knew I was, I was an accident.

But now, accident no more.
It was fate.
No.
Yeah.
I think, I think that's beautiful.
And it's something that for a lot offolks who also listen to this podcast.
And we have folks listening overseasas well, and I think there's this
very important dialogue about this,about the intersection of queerness

(01:14:31):
and asianness and culture and alsohomophobia and queerphobia, gender,
sexuality, and I think a lot of sharedexperiences is very similar to this,
right, where it's navigating and doing alot of this heavy lifting, and I'm sure
a lot of your education facilitatingthese situations in a context, right,

(01:14:53):
and a job, and I'm sure a lot of thepatients is also culminated into what
you're able to experience today too.
Right.

Yeah.
It was hard, but it was worth it.

Yeah.
Yeah.
And I'm, I'm curious, um, as we'restarting to get to the end of our podcast,
um, do you have any Lessons, any takeawaysthat you want our listeners to impart?

Uh, I feel like I provided a lot already, but I guess, yeah, I guess
one thing I will say is that if you're,if we're going back to drag, go for it.
Don't be afraid to be crunchy.
If in any terms of any type ofart form, fill your cup, whenever

(01:15:41):
inspiration hits, follow it.
And I think that when, when inspirationhits and you don't act on it, not that
you always have to act on everything.
But, you know, I, sometimes it's adisservice to yourself to not allow
yourself the freedom to do what yourheart really wants, you know, sometimes
obviously we can't because of timeand capacity and whatnot, but on the

(01:16:06):
other side of that, there is so much,so much healing you can do and so much
that you didn't know that you couldprovide to others by doing what you
love and presenting your authenticity.
I will also say if you're startingdrag, there's so much that you can work
with in terms of like how you expressyourself, how you celebrate your heritage.

(01:16:27):
Every person's experience as, as anAsian American, Asian diasporic, your
experiences are different and you deserveto celebrate and explore all of that.
For me, Asian, my Asian Americanexperience isn't necessarily tied to just
doing traditional wear, it isn't just tiedto doing lip sync songs that my, uh, we,

(01:16:52):
my parents did for karaoke growing up.
You know, it's also things thatwere very Asian American to me.
To me that a lot of that is anime becausethose were, guess what, my role models.
And so a lot of that is, you know, WhilePokemon Yes is Asian and isn't inherently
something that is like for, for Asians,you know, that is something that was a big

(01:17:14):
part of my growing up, you know, that wasa part of my Asian American experience.
Um, and so that's, you know, Icontinue to celebrate that today.

That's beautiful.

Yeah.

What is, a few more questions really quick, um, something
that's bringing you joy lately?

Um, what is something that's bringing me joy lately?
So I also play a lot of TFT, uh, . Do,are you familiar with team fight tactics?
It's just, uh, it's a, uh, it's aspinoff game of League of Legends.

No, I, I haven't gotten too much into it, but lately
I've been getting into POW world
. Miss Shu Mai: You
got POW world.
Yeah.

It's like Pokemon with guns as a Pokemon lover.
How I do you, how do you feel about it?

Um, literally it's just, it.
It's still Pokemon.
It's like they just literallystole so many things about Pokemon.
They stole a lot of stuff from Zelda.
It's just like all these Nintendogames and they just threw it together.
And it's just there's nolore or storyline, but it's
just like all the mechanics.
I think if they layer inthe storyline, it's just.

(01:18:26):
I think people have just been like,this is literally what people,
especially Pokemon fans, have beenasking for for decades and decades.
Yeah, right.

Well, let's see if Game Freak will give us something somewhat
similar for the upcoming game for ZA.
Um, because I mean, yeah, forLegends Arceus, like that was
the, I love that game so much.
I thought it was When I playedit, I was like, wow, I can't
believe this is a Pokemon game.
The way there was so much life into everysingle Pokemon animation and interaction.

(01:18:56):
And yeah, I'm like, I wishI could experience that game
newly again for the first time.
I think other things that are bringing mejoy, like I said, I started learning how
to draw and you'll get a kick out of this.
I specifically started learning howto draw to, to be a Fakemon artist.
Yeah, so to draw my ownPokemon, which is something I've
always wanted to do as a kid

Yeah

And so and I will say this to all of our audience members if
there's something you want to do as akid But you never got to do it do it now.
Yeah, don't wait.
Just do it.
It'll be fun.
It'll be healing

Oh, yeah, I love that.
Um, do you know fun facts?
Do you know how they make Pokemon?
Like what is some of the artistic ruleof how they like create new Pokemon?

Uh, a few in terms of theory.
I've watched so manySugimori art style videos.
I'm like, if I don't have anythingplaying, I'm playing like a four
artists try to draw a Pokemonfrom the same description.
Like I'm like, I'm watching one of those.
Shout out to those YouTubers.
True Green.
I love you.
But yeah, I like, I think one of thethings is that one, it should be a complex

(01:20:01):
simplicity is how I like to put it,because you cannot over design a Pokemon.
Otherwise it looks like it'seither a Neopet or a Digimon.
One, it has to be somewhat, ithas to be relatively simple.
There has to be some sort of concept thatis there, but not over there, in a sense.
So it's a very fine balance.
I specifically try to study andemulate, like, the quote unquote

(01:20:24):
Pokemon art style that Tsugimori has.
Not the Gen 1 and 2, like the watercolorstuff, but like, really Gen 3, 4, and on.
That kind of style, because I feellike that's what we kind of see more.
of now.
And so, eventually What I read.
Yeah.

Yeah.
What were you

saying?
Oh, I was just going to say, I waslike, eventually I want, I have a whole
region that I'm like brainstorming.
And so once I'm, once I feel like Iam ready to release my works, I have
works in progress and I have somestuff I feel more somewhat satisfied
with, but I'm still working on it.

Yeah.
Ooh, that would be exciting to see.
The thing I watched on YouTubeand it was a theory, but basically
the artists for Game Freak.
Apparently, the whole lore around,like, who's that Pokemon, right,
and they had the silhouette, is theywould actually silhouette everyone's
Pokemon, and your silhouette actuallycouldn't look like another Pokemon.

(01:21:17):
And that was one of the teststhat they would do to ensure
that that's how they were alldifferentiated, was a silhouette of it.
Yeah, and then it turnedinto lore around Pokemon.
The Who's that Pokemon Right thing?
Because they werealready doing that right.
As an activity to vet the Pokemon.

Oh, I didn't hear about that actually.
That's something good to know.
It's also very hard to make asilhouette look extremely similar to
one another unless you really copy.
Unless you copy and paste.
Mm-Hmm.
, you know, on the, in the new NetflixPokemon series where it's not Ash
anymore, there's no more Who's that?
Pokemon.
It's really sad.

No, I also didn't know there was a Netflix series.

Yeah, it's uh, it's like in the Paldaia region, there
it follows new protagonists.
Yeah,

there's So, yeah, no, I watched it religiously as a kid,

yeah.
I binged I binged it, like,With my boyfriend, like,
literally, like, a day or two.
Yeah.

Okay.
Okay.
I'm gonna add it to my list.
Yeah.
Pokemon.
Joy.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Um, and then, next question.
What are some of your upcoming projectsyou have coming up in this year?

What are some of my upcoming projects?
Well, Send Noodz isconstantly doing shows.
Um, so, follow at Send Noodz Party.
That's Send N O O D Z.
Party like noodles getyour head out the gutter.
It's we constantly have parties check outour Pride parties if this is coming up

(01:22:49):
or then if they haven't passed alreadyas well as we have Events every month
or so at the time of this recording.
We are doing regular drag dimsums in Eagle Rock in the LA area.
So if you are in the area and want tocome through, have some good dim sum
while seeing drag queens perform inthe back of a restaurant, come through.

(01:23:13):
It's fun.
Otherwise, upcoming projects.
And just follow me to see what's up.
I don't know what's happeningin the next few months.
That's, I don't know.
It's past June

and I guess follow up question.
Where can listeners follow you?

Uh, I am at Miss Shumai on all social media, M I S S S H U M A I.
If you type in M I S S withanother S at the end, Sugar Cane
from Drag Race will come up firstand I'm usually the second one.

That's awesome.
Yes, come through SEO.
And, uh, really appreciatedhaving you on this episode.
I think we had a lot of discussions justaround Drag, Asian, queer communities.
And for folks listening, if you'veenjoyed this episode with Ms.
Shumai, uh, definitely leaveus a rating and review.

(01:24:08):
This is how our friends discover episodes.
And follow us at Yellow Glitter Podon social and give us your thoughts
and Recommendations of what you wantto see more of and for full episodes,
transcripts, and show notes, you can visitus on our website at yellowglitterpodcast.
com.
And I just want to thank you Ms.
Shumai for showing upand sharing your story.

(01:24:32):
I thoroughly enjoyed itand so thank you so much.

Thank
you so much for having me.
It means a lot and it's greatto connect with you and thank
you to all of the listeners for,uh, listening to my stories.
Keep supporting drag, support yourlocal drag scenes, support your
local Asians, email your senators.
Go to protests and stuff.

Get out there.

Oh, can I shout out one more thing that I forgot that I work on?

Yes.

So, yeah, one of the other things that I work on consistently
is I host a lot of K pop events in L.
A.
So, follow me at Miss Shumai if youwant to attend some K pop events.
I perform a lot of K pop numbers,uh, and we also always have random
playdance, meaning that if you knowthe dances, you get to come on out

(01:25:24):
and celebrate yourself too, so, yeah.

Good playdance is so good.

Are you a K pop fan?

I love K pop.

Who's, who's your ultimate?

Um, well, just like New Genes, I love New
Genes with a soul overrated.
Of course.
But I've been actuallyvery into T pop lately.
Typop.
Oh my god.
And I'm gonna send you, I'm gonnasend you a list, but the Tygirlies
are like, they're coming through.
Oh yeah.
It's like K pop from back inthe day where it was like,

(01:25:57):
experimental, interesting music.
They have like, It's just so, I'm justlike, everyone on K pop land, I've
just been like raving, I'm like, Tpop, like, you have to check it out.
It's just like, oh

yeah,

it's, they're like, killing it right now.

One of the,
one of the girlies that I saw recently, Ithink their group name is called Empress.
Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're,

they're really, really, really good.
I follow a group called Mixfruit,they're another Thai pop group too.

Oh, yes, MXFruit, yes.
No, I'm upset.
They're like, not that bigyet, but they're amazing.

They're amazing.
They had like this sad ass song,like, last year at some point, and
I, that was on repeat for a while.
Yeah.

No, they're, all of their songs are so good.
I play them and everyone's like,oh my god, they're so good.
I'm like, yes.
I, I don't know, I don'tknow anyone who's known them.
That's amazing.
Oh yeah,

I love, I love them.
Wait, is it MXFruit or isit not, is it not Mixfruit?

I've been singing MXFruit.
I don't know, I should know.

Yeah,

but it's no they all the girls look so uniquely different
from each other But they work so welltogether and they're just so cute.
Yeah, like yeah.
No, I am obsessed

Do you know who PP Crit is?

No,

you don't know who PP Crit is Okay, my straight roommate
kept this queer icon this queer Thaiicon for me for so long But like for
me, I saw PP Crit and I was like,this is Why am I getting gender envy?
Because this is like, it's, it is like,he is like, femme twink sensual icon

(01:27:32):
that it's like, I've never seen thisin like a, like a pop star before.
And I'm like, I feel so seen.
I like, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, I, I know thisis Thailand's most sought after bottom.
Like, this is crazy.

Hahahaha
oh,
yes.
You heard it here, folks.
You heard it here first.
Thank you for being on thepodcast and for listeners.
Thank you for listening and hope to bewith you again for our next episode.
Bye now.

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